Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 925: The Best Mind Pump Interviews of 2018

Starting point is 00:00:00 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So in this episode of Mind Pump, this is a fun one, reminiscing all the guests that we've had. A walk down memory lane. All year long, how many total guests have we had on our show this year? So there's over 50 that we had just this year and we didn't obviously quite get through all 50. I tried to drive us through ones that or their first time on the show ever and ones that

Starting point is 00:00:37 were probably more monumental for each of us or like you know changed our minds on something. So that was you know as we go through this too, I had no idea where we were going to go. And I think it will turn into a pretty cool episode for people that are maybe just now coming into Mind Pump and wondering what are some good interviews you go back and listen to because we give a little bit of insight on a lot of interviews. If you're that person, both on the website and on the free Mindput Media app, you can actually search any of these people's names that we talk about right now,

Starting point is 00:01:10 and it'll populate that episode. I mean, we talked about our favorite interviews, we talked about the ones we didn't like so much, we talked about stuff behind the scenes, you know, and of course what these episodes were all about and how we met these people. It's sort of like a director's cut if you will Yeah, it was it was a lot of fun reminiscing with you guys with all these guests funny how many of them Just because there's so many and you forget and then you bring up the names and right away. Yeah

Starting point is 00:01:36 Yeah, yeah, right away. I'm gonna myself right there So you guys will enjoy this episode and also I want to mention everybody that this month only this month We're gonna be giving away free access to our private forum for a full year to anybody who enrolls in any of our maps fitness programs. Now we have maps programs for everybody. We have maps programs for people who want to speed up their metabolism and build muscle and strength. We have programs for people who are advanced and want to train like bodybuilders or who want to sculpt their body like bodybuilders.

Starting point is 00:02:07 We have programs for people who are athletically minded or like functional training. We have correctional exercise programs. If you have pain, knee pain, ankle pain, hip pain, back pain, shoulder pain, we have programs that help correct those issues. We have programs that are fun. We have strong man inspired program. Anyway, we got a lot of programs. You get the just programs for clowns.

Starting point is 00:02:28 If you go to mind, if you go to mapsfitinistproducts.com, you can check out our maps, fitness programs. And again, if you're enrolling any of those programs, you'll get a free year access to our private forum, on our private forum as personal trainers, fitness enthusiasts, other podcast hosts, and then of course I am on there, Adam's on there, Doug is on there, and even I'm sold if you're on there, so even Doug is on the forum, you can always tag us and ask

Starting point is 00:02:55 us questions on there and you get access for free free. You are in the house. So it's really cool again, check out our programs, all maps, fitnessproducts.com. So that's it. Here we go If people are wondering why we sound a little bit different Are we on right now? I kind of feel like a like a little like scraggly like like Gravelies and Edgerton, I think it is I think probably yeah, maybe gravelly gravel like there's gravel in your throat It's it's because we're on the road. We're actually out here in should I say we're at sure Pahar Odoons. Yeah, let us know

Starting point is 00:03:31 We actually met someone today at one of the restaurants. We ate what was his name again Adam Adam Yeah, you should remember love that guy anyway No, we're out here doing some fun stuff Surprise stuff, but anyway, so if you wonder what I was doing. We don't wanna tell them that we're going to work on. Do that breakfast place. We're going to the next programmer now. Yeah, well now they know. Yeah, there we go. I actually wanted to do something a little bit different today.

Starting point is 00:03:53 Is it special? We're gonna do something special? Yeah, no, we're gonna do something special today. What I wanna do today, it's a middle, almost, you know, we're getting close to Christmas time, right? And are you getting us presents? Justin, we're gonna get presents. Yes, it's a key city gift, give it. I love it.

Starting point is 00:04:07 I'm more of a giver than a receiver, that's for sure. Are you really? Yeah, definitely. Well, Justin was telling me about that. About you. Yeah, you're so sure. I love receiving your gifts. They're big and great.

Starting point is 00:04:18 Okay, no, that's enough. So I was talking to Ann the other day, and we're going over the list of all the people that We've had this year and oh, I mean it's guess. Yes, guess on the show and I didn't realize that we'd seen over 50 people Just this year now some of those were returned guests like we had a few people that returned like you know Ben Greenfield who came back We saw check Paul check you know, Ben Greenfield who came back. We saw,

Starting point is 00:04:43 Paul Czech, Paul Czech, Rusio came back on. So we had a handful of those that were friends of ours that came back another time. We saw a lot of new guests. And so what I wanna do is I'm gonna try and get through as many as I can,

Starting point is 00:04:56 but because I bet you guys have forgotten damn near half of them by now. I bet, yeah. And so I wanna bring the guest, I'll tell you who they are, and then you guys tell me, I wanna know what's your impression of them before they came on the show was?

Starting point is 00:05:12 And if you even had one, because sometimes we have a guest that we don't know anything about sometimes, right? So your impression of them before they came on the show, and then your impression of them after. What a great question, because I can't tell you how many times I have, it's completely different.

Starting point is 00:05:26 It's super underestimated. Totally different after I meet somebody, you know, for the first time, which is a treat for me. So I'm going to. That's my favorite. With that being said, I'm going to start off with one I completely forgot about, but I'd be interested in here. Your guys is take Sam Parr with the hustle.

Starting point is 00:05:45 Oh yeah. Yeah. You know what's crazy about that episode was me and Taylor had gone to CES and we were basically late. We had to catch like a flight just last second for me to even make it to that interview. I don't know if you guys remember that.

Starting point is 00:06:03 Oh, I don't remember. I showed up like the first quarter, you guys started going into it. And then I just, I tried to be like as ninja as possible to like kind of just sit in on the podcast. I'm like, game. I've forgotten about that. Do you remember how much you missed?

Starting point is 00:06:18 I probably missed, I would think like 15 minutes. Yeah, it wasn't much. Yeah, it wasn't like, yeah, I felt like you were there the whole time. Just started talking and I thought, oh my God, it was, it was like mayhem for me to get that came. So now did you, did either one of you know

Starting point is 00:06:32 who the hell he even was before he really came to show? No, so I didn't know. No Taylor was freaking out because it was his lead. All I knew was what I discovered, just the short research that we did beforehand, because I knew we had a guest coming in. I knew, you know, it was the CEO of this company called The Hustle and then Taylor kind of

Starting point is 00:06:51 let me in on what they did. And so I had no expectations whatsoever. I had no expectations. I thought, okay, it's a CEO. We'll talk about business, that's always cool. But what blew me away about him was, he was a great guest, but really what blew me away was realizing the power of one segment of new media that I had completely written off,

Starting point is 00:07:17 which was email. And I don't mean in terms of email marketing, I had known that that was powerful because, you know, we had learned that earlier on when we met with Mike Matthews and he talked about how it's such an important aspect of business. It was how he compared email to newspaper. Yeah. He's like, this is how you get, this is a great, it's like you're getting a magazine or newspaper,

Starting point is 00:07:37 treated it totally different and created a... Like, it was its own platform, in a sense. Yes. Everybody else was, you know, he's like, everybody's hanging a sense. Yes, everybody else was you know He's like everybody's hanging out here on Facebook everybody's hanging on Instagram. They've been saying on Twitter Like email. Let's make it entertaining to where people actually look forward to these emails and want to open it up And his open rates are we're insane I think what's the normal? What's the average open rate of an email is like 8% or so?

Starting point is 00:08:01 Four less than that like two to four would be like the average really and his was like 30% 40% And then he sells advertising on these emails and so I thought of course obviously that's got to be it's a new Media just the email, but I completely wrote it off. So yeah, he was a treat for me for that exact reason I mean we we were in the in the middle Really starting to get aggressive with building our list and so to get a guess like that to come in and be able to talk to me We got we talked about the business behind the scene. So it was pretty cool. I really enjoyed that that was a surprise for me How about Courtney Olson the watermelon girl. Oh, yeah, remember we met or you and I met her we met her

Starting point is 00:08:43 So Sal and I were down in LA and we were speaking Yeah, we were speaking at the LA convention and One of our listeners brought her up to us. I said, right? Yes, I said. Yeah, it's why it was I said I love her So she she brought her up to us and was excited to collapse to us. She didn't know who the fuck we were and We we said okay. Well, let's get in contact. We'll have her on the show. And she had told us, my episode's gonna be the biggest episode ever on your podcast.

Starting point is 00:09:11 So that's been this girl, this chick's coffin, this is cool. She has a lot of charisma. And when you see her, you can't miss her. She's definitely a big personality. But then she's like, I'm the girl that smashes the watermelons between my legs. I'm like, oh, now I I remember because it was a viral video Remember at that point that I'd gone and I remembered her. Yeah, and she's she's very built very

Starting point is 00:09:30 She was very like no holds bar. Yeah, like she She came in hot with some of her stories. I was like wow. I actually She actually was exactly as I expected her. I agree. I agree too. I think from what I perceived from the little bit of time that we met at the LA convention and then kind of digging through her social media, looking at all her business stuff, I think I got exactly what I thought was coming. And I'll leave it with, that was a very interesting episode. So different.

Starting point is 00:10:03 Different than what we'd normally ever do. Yeah. And I think she did have a lot of great energy and tell some good stories. I mean, she told us about her life and she has a crazy life story. Yeah. I mean, some good stuff and some bad stuff. So. And I love that about, I love that, you know, she does, she was very radically honest, right?

Starting point is 00:10:21 We talk about trends. I might be jumping ahead, but Luke's story, like I remember him having like a very crazy story like that, like his childhood and then, where that led him. He's number 12 on the list right here that I'm going through and that is like, just because she was, it's a similar type of an interview,

Starting point is 00:10:41 but I thought Luke's stories was even more crazy. Well Luke, I like, I like, I like, I like was even more crazy. Well, Luke, I liked it. I liked it. I liked his vision a bit. I liked his better. Yeah. Because for that reason though, what Sal's saying is, I totally didn't expect that for him.

Starting point is 00:10:53 And Sal and I met him. He interviewed. He interviewed Sal and I one time went down in LA. Super friendly, totally liked him, seemed a bit nervous when we first were doing the interview. But I wasn't really, be honest, we didn't stay around and hang out and talk to him that long afterwards. I wasn't really drawn to do much with him.

Starting point is 00:11:14 And I think he was, he stayed in communication with us afterwards. And I really liked the way he was business-wise. And I thought he didn't expect anything back from us. I just like people that are liked that do good solid business. I felt that way. I do know. And so there was an opportunity for him to get on our show when he came into town one weekend. I can't remember what it was.

Starting point is 00:11:35 And he was just in the area and we agreed we liked him said, hey, let's have him on the show, but had no idea what was coming and what a crazy. I was an entertaining episode. Well, he's also a podcaster, so he's really good at telling stories. Very good story. Yeah, so it was a very entertaining episode. Crazy, crazy childhood.

Starting point is 00:11:55 I think he was telling the stories about eight years old. Yeah, doing cocaine and crazy shit because of the way he grew up and I was like, you were a baby. Who's insane. Right, so that was number two, right? And then we jumped over to 12. Number three was a beijros.

Starting point is 00:12:10 Oh, yeah. Yeah. What was your impression of him before you met him? And then what was your impression afterwards? I had known of beijros and actually went to a few of the fitness summits. So I knew him as far as like how he presents himself on stage. And I knew him as far as like how he presents himself on stage and I didn't really

Starting point is 00:12:27 know him like on you know more of a personal level in terms of like what drives him, what motivates him, all that kind of stuff. And so I thought that he was pretty much what I expected in terms of like I could see why he's so driven you, based off of his backstory and everything else. And I just love his, I've always followed him and liked him and liked what he's doing because he's really helping to fit a massive need in the industry that nobody was really servicing and he was putting himself right there.

Starting point is 00:13:00 Like here's, you know, sort of a blueprint to help you with your personal train business. Yeah, we should tell the audience if you don't know who he was. He's like this. He helps fitness professionals build their businesses in essence through social media, through different marketing strategies.

Starting point is 00:13:18 So I don't know of him. You guys both knew of him. I had no idea who he was. And then I looked into him before we had him on the show. And he reminded me of the old school fitness sales guy, marketing guy. That's who you're reminding me of. And when I met him, it was pretty accurate.

Starting point is 00:13:35 He's kind of that old school kind of guy, but he's adopted it towards the new school way of doing things. And the guy's got a great reputation. He works with a lot of our friends, and they all seem to like him. I wasn't, it wasn't like I was blown away with them. I wasn't, it wasn't bad. I, we had a great conversation. A lot of energy, very honest. But he entered into a space where nobody else was doing that, you know, especially when he did it. He's been doing it for a

Starting point is 00:14:00 while, I think. Long time. Yeah. I, I absolutely loved I knew a little bit of him, like you said, Justin, I paid attention to what he was doing, but I never took any of his courses, I didn't pay for any of his stuff, so I was, Justin actually probably knew even more than I did about him. I just knew of him, but I was excited to meet him because in our space, especially when you talk about making money. And when I came into fitness, this was something that I kind of pieced together really quick for myself. I knew I wasn't the most educated trainer. I wasn't the most experienced trainer. I didn't have the greatest physique.

Starting point is 00:14:36 But I did have this natural gift to sell. I love numbers. I love business. I loved all that stuff. I've always loved that. And I felt like there wasn't a lot of people teaching trainers how to monetize, how to make more money. Like everyone was talking about how to be a better trainer or looking. Yeah, technique, all things that I think are extremely important to be a successful trainer. But nobody was really pushing the business side of it and the money side like Beidroose was. And I think that's a really challenging thing to do. I mean, we've avoided that like the plague in our own business.

Starting point is 00:15:11 We know there's lots of money and teaching others how to make money and we know that and we know that there's people that wanna pay us to help them build their business and we really don't wanna do that. At least not right now. Because I think we all have the same hesitate. I don't want that's not what I want to always be about.

Starting point is 00:15:29 I think what we are mission is different than that. Although as a business, it makes a lot of sense to do that for us. So I think that's a very hard thing to have to, if you're somebody in our position, or his position, to have to juggle that, and then he's made that full commitment to teaching others how to make a lot of money.

Starting point is 00:15:46 And a lot of times those guys can be very grease-bally and just slimy. And because that's all with their teaching, how to make more money. But I get, I got such a great genuine feel from him. And that's what I really liked about him. In fact, it's exciting to watch what he's doing now.

Starting point is 00:16:04 Yeah, and almost all our guests, you guys know that I do my best to try and stay in contact and talk to and stuff. He's one of those ones that treats me the same way, like that, and anytime I get that back for some of him, the Tom Bill use, Jordan Shallow's, Roussios. There's guys that are very approachable and professional. And he also seems to take pride in maintaining those kinds of relationships.

Starting point is 00:16:26 Yeah, definitely. Yeah, so I believe that he does it in the right way. He does a lot of things the right way when you talk about that. And it's really easy to cross the dark side, I feel like. So I think that's what I like. And I think he never tries to put on a front like he's this badass smart trainer.

Starting point is 00:16:42 Like that's not his message. He's not like, I'm fact, even said he wasn't on our podcast. I'm on the interview. Yeah, so I love that. I love that he's not trying to claim like he's the baddest trainer ever. He's keeping it real.

Starting point is 00:16:52 Like listen, ain't nobody out there teaching you guys how to make good money. Like let me show you, right? Yeah. I really liked, I liked it. I liked it. I liked it.

Starting point is 00:17:00 I liked him a lot. That is somebody who would be around I think for a long time with us. How about Chris Cresser? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So did you guys know Cresser before he came on the show? Very little.

Starting point is 00:17:11 Okay. So for me, Chris Cresser was some of the, I've read so many of his articles. He's been online for a long time writing about wellness, writing about health. He's a, you's a functional medicine practitioner. And back when I had my gut issues and all that stuff, his information was a lot of the stuff that I would read. And he's just excellent at what he does, very, very good at what he does.

Starting point is 00:17:36 One of the first guys to do so, so I was very excited to meet him and I really enjoyed talking with the guy. Later on, he had me on his podcast and we had a great episode. That was a really good interview. We had a really good time. But I really, really enjoyed talking to the guy because he's just super smart with how

Starting point is 00:17:55 to approach wellness from all the different angles from Western medicine to aerovetic medicine. Chris Cresser's just he's one of those guys, you know, he you're reminding me the same feeling I got when we met Rob Wolf. I just I was really pleased by what they were like off air when we were talking to them Very down to earth very intelligent not dogmatic, you know That's something that I whenever I meet the the people that tend to be kind of on the woo woo side or they come, they're teaching a lot of all natural everything. Super dogmatic. Yeah. And I didn't get that at all from Kim or Rob Wolf.

Starting point is 00:18:31 And so Cresser was a really nice treat for me. I didn't know much going into. He was actually surprising to me because I had listened to him on Joe Rogan's podcast, previous to that. And so I knew a little bit about him and his delivery and how he's got this really like quiet, you know, laid back delivery. And so I was like, oh, this might be kind of a boring episode to be honest with you. But his story and, I mean, obviously is brilliant. He's a brilliant guy who is among the best in the wellness space. But yeah, I just, I enjoyed his story of why, you know, and what led him to become, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:10 on this quest to heal himself. Yeah, Chris Crestor is one of the people, I would say, who is responsible for the mainstream, you know, mainstreaming, if you will, of wellness. He's one of those people because he wrote so many did awesome blogs and articles has a great site That people found his stuff and you know, it's his information is just phenomenal. So yeah, that was a really good one I'm gonna go over the ones that we've had on our show the previous years even and we'll circle back if they were really good interview

Starting point is 00:19:44 I want to hit people that we know. How about Sean Baker? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, you're a controversial, he's really making his rounds these days. Yeah, so he's the carnivore diet doctor. He's a surgeon, and he's this guy that talks about

Starting point is 00:19:58 just eating meat and how it cured a lot of his inflammation and issues, health issues. Now, before he came on the show, I had heard him on a podcast and I thought he was obviously his surgeon, right? He's a smart guy, but I was pretty sure I was gonna go after him with some of his claims with his carnivore diet. His social media can come across as dogmatic,

Starting point is 00:20:22 but when you talk to him on a podcast, he isn't, besides all that, he isn't. No. Besides all that, he's a cool guy. I really like him. I really like him. He's like one of us, you know what I mean? It's a very cool guy. Yeah, a very cool big dude.

Starting point is 00:20:32 That was the thing that surprised me. He's done a lot of bad ass things in his life. Well, remember when you walked in, I did not anticipate a giant, his hands just like engulfed my head. Yeah, I'm like, oh, this guy's a giant. Yeah. He's a big human being. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:20:44 But that was a good show, but I tried to challenge him a little bit. With his approach, I don't think eating carnivore diet is great. I think it's just the ultimate elimination diet, and I think at some point you need to come out of it. I had a great time with him. He wasn't very firm in terms of everybody should do this. That's where it gets hard to really debate somebody is when you know that the lane, if you point things out. Well, it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:21:11 It reminds me of like when we have like lane on the show or someone without. Sometimes these guys on social media, they do things to get more, we all do, right? I mean, that's part of it. Sure. We do, you do the headlines or the Shokinaw approach to get attention and then you try and communicate and build your network. Well, he goes after vegans like, it's a strong, right.

Starting point is 00:21:31 It's super inflammatory. Right, and he does it because I think it caused, but you get him in a room and you start talking about the benefits of it and I don't think he would. You know what I think it is, honestly. I think it's less of him trying to get attention and more of him firing back because that guy gets so much to hate from vegans.

Starting point is 00:21:49 It's good point. It's insane. And you know, some of the really like militant vegans can be with attack people. So how about Lisa Bilu? We actually had Tom's wife on the show this year. She, we'd met her before. and Lisa is just a great person. She's a very, she's a very welcoming person, very giving.

Starting point is 00:22:16 The hospitality that her and Tom give us whenever we're there is, it's unexpected. That's how good it is. You know what I mean? Like, you expect your friends to be hospitable? They're phenomenal. And she's just an exceptional host and a great person to talk to. When I meet couples that have things in common

Starting point is 00:22:35 with Katrina and I, like, I connect with them, right? I feel like Tom and her are kind of a mirror of themselves. They both have, and they're really good with people. And they take, and that mean relationships mean a lot to both of them. And you can see by just the way they treat others. They both give a lot. Yeah, and I'm very impressed with that when you have to do that at such a high level. I mean, we met Tom very early on.

Starting point is 00:23:01 I mean, Tom came on the show. Tom was actually one of the bigger guests to come on the show before we were even that big. And I remember liking him from the very gikgo, just the way he was. And he is somebody who I've remained in contact with. And he was the one who kept telling me, like, hey, you should get lease on the show. And I loved the way he did it too, because he kind of like he recommended it to me like a year and a half ago, and over two years ago, in the first time we met him. And I was just like, ah, it just wasn like a year and a half ago, and that was two years ago, when the first time we met him. And I was just like, ah, it just wasn't on my radar, all the things that we have, everyone's got a ton of people that want to be on the show, right?

Starting point is 00:23:31 And, you know, after a couple of times of us getting connected and seeing each other, I was like, you know, we need to have Lisa on the show. I think we could have a good conversation. And it was really good. It was really, it was fun to talk to her. There's some great relationship tips in that episode. Yeah, yeah, no, I thought that was that was refreshing and fun. So I thought that one was really cool. How about Dr. Zach Bush?

Starting point is 00:23:54 Yeah. So Zach Bush was just, I think that was just me. That was just you. Yeah. Very interesting. I'm trying to remember it was he, he talked about using those glyphosate. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. He freaked me out a little bit. Yeah. Super. Super. Super. Super. Super. He scared me because I were you scared me that you came back and you talked about like to basically even you're like it's in everything. It's organic. Or it's not even organic. He's such a smart. No.

Starting point is 00:24:19 Such a smart guy, but he really broke down what happens to the gut from some of these compounds like glyphosate. And I mean, he did. He really solidified a lot of things that I was already believing, but then I became much more fervorous about. But that was one of the few interviews that we weren't all on. So it was just me and him kind of nerding out.

Starting point is 00:24:42 So if you're like somebody that's really into fascinating information, you like to nerd out on things, that's an episode you should check out. What was our new Mon Santo campaign? It was like life is it's fine. It's fine. You're fine. It's fine.

Starting point is 00:24:56 How about Michaela Peterson? Yeah, Michaela was great. I found Michaela through obviously Jordan Peterson, who there was a stint there where I was really just learning a lot from the guy and then learning from the things that he was recommending. There's certain books in people and I started reading Carl Jung because of Jordan Peterson and I found other people like Bishop Barron through Jordan Peterson.

Starting point is 00:25:21 And then I found an interview where he was on a news show and I think it was like an Australia or something. And it was him being interviewed with his daughter and it was about her terrible autoimmune issues, which included psychiatric issues but also included terrible, terrible rheumatoid arthritis where she had to have joints replaced at a very young age And she talked about how diet Changing her diet kind of cured her and the reason why it perked me up is because you hear that all the time right if I go online I can find a million or one different diets that cure pretty much anything But the reason why I liked it was because Jordan Peterson came across is so honest. He's a psychologist

Starting point is 00:26:02 The professor he's sitting next to his daughter saying, I don't have to take antidepressants anymore. So he's like vouching for it. And I'm like, this is fascinating. So we invited her on the show. And she's a very, very sweet girl. When I went down, where were we? Was it paleo-fx?

Starting point is 00:26:18 And I went to that dinner with Ruscio. And there was a bunch of people there. And I didn't know too many people. And her and I ended up talking the entire time, which is a really cool person. So what did you guys think about her? I thought she was great. I mean, I saw a little bit of first stuff because you were the one that first mentioned it. I was already like you.

Starting point is 00:26:34 We were all reading Jordan Peterson like crazy around that time, right? I think, I think right around that time was going through 12 roles. I just finished watching all of his DVDs that you would turn me on to. You mean YouTube videos? Yeah. That's a DVD. DVDs. DVDs.

Starting point is 00:26:49 You watch DVDs, dude. Does he watch all the VHSs? So old. So much. So much. Yeah, so I was doing it through his YouTube. So funny that that comes more natural. Is that the LR?

Starting point is 00:27:01 Be kind rewind. Yeah. You don't have to rewind a DVD. I know that. But you can. But we were like, I mean, balls deep in his information. I mean, we were all reading and listening to his stuff. And I remember you saying, like, oh, you got to check out what's going on with his daughter.

Starting point is 00:27:16 And I had no idea. And then we started watching. And I think too, because she was taking the approach, we just finished up with a shambh baker. And so like she was eliminating going through that elimination process and kind of found carnivore diet to help with it. Well, dude, Jordan Peterson now follows it. And now here's the thing with a carnivore diet.

Starting point is 00:27:37 It's the ultimate elimination diet. And if you have a hyper reactive immune system, because you gotta keep in mind, yes, there's food allergies, and food allergies we identify very quickly. That's very easy to identify. But then there's immune responses that are harder to identify like depression or blurry vision.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Jordan Peterson talks about that or he said he used to have bleeding gums. That was one of his other things. Inflammation, rheumatoid arthritis pain whatever these are could all be the result of a hyper reactive immune system That is reacting to food as if the food is really fighting you from within. Yeah, and so and it runs in their family Obviously, so now Jordan Peterson he eats carnivore and he's like I feel better than I've ever felt He doesn't recommend it to everybody But of course he feels better because when he eats any other food,

Starting point is 00:28:26 he gets an immune reaction. So I thought that was just, oh, I thought it was fascinating. It's why I wanted around the show. Yeah, that was good. So we were a part, I think this is right after that, then we headed down to LA and we did a trip

Starting point is 00:28:37 and we hit a lot of people for the first time. And one of the interviews that we did in LA, this was actually talking about Lisa Bilyu opening her home to us. She actually did that right after this, where we went down and we interviewed Tara. Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for- Tara was for had thought of Forsythmatic when we ran into them at Paleo Effects, but in terms of his knowledge and storytelling or any of that, I didn't think a lot out of the interview.

Starting point is 00:29:13 So I first met Tero at Paleo Effects. So this was, one was this, maybe the year before, we'd all gone to Paleo Effects, and this point, mind pump was, it was growing, it wasn't big, big yet, but it was growing and really we weren't bringing in a whole lot of revenue from sponsors. At that time, it was just our programs and I remember when we got that, I don't know if you guys remember, I told you guys, I said, I want to start talking to sponsors, I think we're ready. If it works with us, let's start. I'm gonna, my goal is to go to PaleoFX and look at all these companies and see if any of them match with us.

Starting point is 00:29:49 And so we were walking around, we were super hyper that day. It was hilarious. We had some really, really fun times. Weird, yeah. And I saw the four-signatic booth. I remember this. And I loved their products.

Starting point is 00:29:59 This genuinely products that I used, they were one of the only companies, supplement companies that really gets it when it comes to making supplements and they specialize in mushrooms. And so I see for Sigmatic, I make a B line to it and it's Tero working the booth. I had no idea who he was. Oh, I didn't know that it was Tero. I had no idea who I had no idea that it was that who he was or that he was the owner. So I go up to him and I'm looking at him, I'm like, man, I love, I love for Sigmatic and I shake his hand.

Starting point is 00:30:27 I'm like, my name's Sal the Steffano. I said, I host the Mind Pump podcast and I started throwing off our stats because I'm trying to like, like, the dazzle. Yeah. Because what I wanted was, I wanted, I wanted. Here's what I got. Yeah, I wanted a connection to the people who we talk to. I hope it's of his trench.

Starting point is 00:30:41 Yeah, so I'm like, this is us and this is what we do, this and that. I love your product that said, Hey, who can I talk to about talking to sponsorships? It's like, you're talking to me because I we talk to. I hope it's up his trench camp. Yeah, so I'm like, this is us and this is what we do, this is that. I love your product. I said, hey, who can I talk to about talking to sponsorships? It's like, you're talking to him because I'm the owner. So I'm like, oh, perfect. And that was it. That day, right away, I texted it.

Starting point is 00:30:52 It's really cool about him. And he knows like, he was one of the first adopters to podcast advertising. Yes, he was. And he said that on the show too. And I thought, oh, he covered that in the show. Forsegmentic was advertising on podcasts when a lot of people were like, wait before everybody.

Starting point is 00:31:08 He just saw it as, you know, be decentralized and like all this like free information out there, he wanted to help promote it. And he's, he just does stuff like that. Like he did that tour just to raise awareness of like the benefits of mushrooms. And I just think that, yeah, he's, you know, he's a little ahead of everybody, you know,

Starting point is 00:31:25 in his thought process. Oh, no, it's just cool. I'm with you on the sleeper. It was a total sleeper interview. I'd be honest. I mean, I already talk about, I'm the one who hardly ever uses force magnetic. You use it the most.

Starting point is 00:31:34 I mean, I sporadically try stuff that you throw my way. If you're going for taste in the coffee we had, I was like, okay, I don't know, dude. Yeah, so I was not, and then I didn't know anything really about going in it, but what a, it was actually a really interesting interview because of fascinating, because if you've ever had any questions

Starting point is 00:31:50 or want to know something about mushrooms, I mean, he talked about the history of mushrooms and all the different families and types and what they do on earth and what their benefits are and the fascinating, fascinating random facts about them that I had no idea. And he's also just a truly brilliant person. We meet a lot of smart people, but some of them are brilliant.

Starting point is 00:32:09 Um-hum. Taro is, is, is, I guess he's ahead of his time in a lot of directions. But if you're the kind of, if you like to learn about these things and you want to learn about mushrooms, because honestly, up until relatively recently, when we look at foods, we learn a lot about fruits and vegetables vegetables, and fish, and meat. And for some reason, we forget that mushrooms are belonged to none of those categories. They're their own categories.

Starting point is 00:32:30 I'm gonna add something to the question I ask you guys, because I think the audience that listen would want to know those two, because I feel like sometimes a lot of these interviews, even if we really like the person and all the great things we're saying, sometimes the flow just isn't there. That was one that flowed really well too.

Starting point is 00:32:43 Like it's interesting. It was educational, but it was also interesting to listen. Like it's an interesting, it was educational, but it was also interesting to listen to it. It's not gonna bore you to death. I thought our conversation flow was really good with that one. So from tarot, then we went over and we saw Dr. Emily Morse.

Starting point is 00:33:00 She came to us. Sex with Emily. Oh yeah, that was the first time you're right. Yeah, because we interviewed her twice. So Emily from sex with Emily. Oh, that was the first time you're right. Yeah, cuz we interview You're gonna talk. Yeah, so sex so Emily from sex with Emily. She's been podcasting long time. She's very long time What she does sweet? Just a sweet woman very open very intelligent very bubbly I

Starting point is 00:33:18 felt like she was visibly nervous or something for that podcast you remember. Yeah, this is a Tom's house Yeah, she was like hyper. She was on it man nervous or something for that podcast. Do you remember? This is a Tom's house. Yeah. She was like hyper. She was on it, man. But we had a great conversation. We had a really good conversation. I think she said no idea.

Starting point is 00:33:31 Like we're going to take it. Yeah. It goes three guys. And she admitted that in the second time that we met and because we asked that about it, because she was talking really fast, I remember. And she said, you know, I didn't know what you guys were going to talk about. She said, I'm not really a fitness person or anything like that. So we give, I remember. And she said, I didn't know what you guys were talking about.

Starting point is 00:33:45 She said, I'm not really a fitness person or anything like that. So we give, I forget sometimes. People just think we're gonna talk about fitness. Right, and that can be intimidating. Three dudes that are sitting here talking to you about fitness, it's supposed to be their expertise and you don't know very much about it.

Starting point is 00:33:58 Like that's kind of an intimidating conversation to have to possibly be in. Where the fuck is this gonna go? No, but she's a sex expert and that's what we talked about. There was a lot of fun. It was fun. It was fun and I thought there's little nuggets in that. Plus we're not afraid to explore topics.

Starting point is 00:34:12 I think she was like, oh wow, you guys want to talk about it? She's a great, I love her. I love Emily. I mean, then the second time when we met with her, that was all, that was... Yeah, that was comfortable for everybody. Here's a neat one to kind of talk about, because these two are on TV type famous people, and we were in LA, we went and interviewed them, and it was Dr. Drew and Mike Catherwood.

Starting point is 00:34:33 Yeah, yeah, I was excited to meet Dr. Drew, because he's, I mean, love line, and he's been podcasting forever, and he's a legit, like, old and new media celebrity. So it was kind of cool to meet him Great guy super personable He had to leave I think it was like halfway through the episode if I wasn't yeah, and we were late So that's that was also you know factor. That was cool. Mike seems like we late Mike was really cool Yeah, we were we were a little bit late. Yeah the traffic traffic. Traffic. I forgot what it was unexpected. The flight was delayed.

Starting point is 00:35:05 Oh, that was. That fucking hate LA. Yeah. It was a nightmare. I could never live there. No, I really liked, I thought Mike was, he was funny, like entertaining. He had, you know, good perspective that he brought to. So, yeah, I was actually pleased with both of them.

Starting point is 00:35:22 I thought they were actually cool. They weren't just like, the celebrities. I knew of them from TV. And you always like wonder, especially the ones on TV. Like they're usually not very cool to hang out with, you know, off camera. So yeah, they're actually pretty cool. Yeah, no, I like both of them. I liked Mike more than Dr. Drew, but I liked both of them. Like when we met met we met both of them. Well, Mike's are I mean, he's are people. Yeah, he's a guy. That's what I mean. So I so I think I liked him more than I like Dr. Drew. I thought Dr. Drew was cool, but I you

Starting point is 00:35:56 could feel how busy he was and I can tell his mind was elsewhere. You know, but still being polite to us at the same time. You know, I'm so, yeah, I kind of have like a neutral feeling with him, like, I don't know who he would be two times, three times. Yeah, we didn't really get a good chance to meet him. Right. Right. That's how I felt.

Starting point is 00:36:15 And, but I really liked Mike. So that one was really cool. You know, solid said something when we were putting this list together about, you know, really feeling like the last, like two or three months of interviews have been a lot better. And it's funny as I'm going through this list. You can remember, like, as you go down,

Starting point is 00:36:32 so much better we got. This is the year, I mean, since we're reminiscing, every, I would say every 100 to 200 episodes, we go through a kind of a growth period, we kind of transform ourselves. We level up, man. Yeah, even from the very beginning, it was like the first hundred episodes

Starting point is 00:36:50 and the second and it was totally different than it grew. This was the year that we started to get good at interviews. And it happened towards the back half. Because interviews for us has always been kind of a challenge, it's hard to bring people into the flow. And it was towards the end where I really feel now that we're having really good interviews, having a good time with the interviews, and we're starting to kind of get it, you know, with that kind of stuff. And as you're

Starting point is 00:37:13 going through the guests, it's becoming apparent, right? Well, yeah, it's going to be interesting now as I watch as I start to name these because I look at like I feel like almost here on out, all of these were pretty damn good interviews. I mean, I even skipped over some back, you know, I was skipping over because I wanted to make sure I get through most of the really good ones to tell people. And of course, I skipped over names that we had already had on the show before. But, I mean, the next guest up, this was a really, this was back home, so we're back in town. And we had Ryan Mickler from Order of Man.

Starting point is 00:37:43 Yeah, cool guy. Yeah, I enjoyed that. Yeah, I really, he's one of those ones that another sleeper for me, where we met when we were in Tahoe. That's where we first had a podcast. Yeah, it was cool. You know, we were cool. It was the very first time we'd ever met before

Starting point is 00:37:59 and we podcasted and I thought it was a decent interview and we were cool. Since then, I feel like we've all kind of communicated via, you know, Instagram and text and stuff like that. And I've gotten to know each other more. And I really like, I really like a lot of his principles. And especially, he's very passionate about that subject matter, which is great to see.

Starting point is 00:38:21 Right, I do it. I really, he's a very intelligent, well-read man. I think he takes his time when he articulates his points. And I think what he's all about is a really good cause at the core of what he's doing. He's got a great personality for like radio slash podcast show. You know, like he really delivers it in an entertaining way. He, his, his podcast is Order of Man and he talks a lot about, you know, being a man.

Starting point is 00:38:50 What does that mean? Fatherhood. Yeah. And I think this is an important topic in today's. Yeah, this time. I'm glad you're right now. Yeah, this climate and so he talks. He talks, he talks a lot about this stuff.

Starting point is 00:39:01 So if you're into that kind of stuff, you should go check out that interview. It was really good. And then something surprising came, came out of stuff, you should go check out that interview. It was really good. And then something surprising came out of that, because he has a big podcast, he wanted to interview me and not talk about fitness. He wanted to interview me and talk about politics. Politics and economics. And I thought that was cool.

Starting point is 00:39:17 And we got on the podcast didn't know how it would go. And him interviewing me, that's one of the biggest responses I've ever gotten on interview. I must, I still get to this day messages from people who find that episode and tell me, you know, that they like... Well, I passed over a name, which will now bounce there since you went there, that on probably one of the most viral episodes you do. Well, there's two, I think, that were bigger than that. One of them being when you were on Chris Cresser's Crusader.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Yeah, Chris Cresser's Crusader. Yeah, Chris Cresser. When you were on Chris Cresser, still this day, I still see leads, trickle-and-that, or heard that episode. And then the other one was, oh, Lou Gevere. Oh, Max, yeah. Yeah, Max. Hold on a second.

Starting point is 00:39:58 Was our first time interview Max this year? I, he's on my list here, but I thought, I think it might be. I think we just met in this year. Well, he's on number seven, this on my list here. I think it's crazy. I think I think I think we just met in this Well, he's on number seven. This is the beginning of the year. You know why I Doesn't feel like that because we became so close to him so quickly. Yeah, Max is one of the few people because we like most The people that we meet and some of them we like more than others very few do we not do we dislike but then there's a very small amount of people that we meet

Starting point is 00:40:25 and right away we're like, we are going to work with you, you're our people. You're my guy. Max was that guy. I remember he came in, first of all you can't not like Max. He's like one of the coolest, nicest kind of likable dudes ever, right? He's a super smart dude, good looking guy, but he comes across very humble. He was telling a story on the podcast, and a lot of it mirrored myself. I already self identified with a lot of what are we

Starting point is 00:40:49 saying? Super cool guy, super great guy, super smart guy, very humble, great podcast. That was a great interview the first time. Then he had me on his show, and since then, we talked to him all the time. Yeah, I would say Max is another one of those pleasant surprises where, and another major sleeper, because when he was coming on, in fact, Max is the type of person who I'm typically really careful not to let through the cracks. And because if, you know, he was been on Doctor,

Starting point is 00:41:18 he'd been on Doctor, or the Doctor show. Doctor, Doctor, Doctor shows. Wrote a book. Bestselling book was a genius food. Very, very good book. And so sometimes when you get somebody like him, I'm very, very skeptical of like, is this just another really good marketing person, right?

Starting point is 00:41:36 And he kind of has that look because he's got a great team and he is very well, he does very well. But when I met him, I was like, oh wow, this dude is awesome. He's somewhat of a, I was like, oh, wow, this dude is somewhat of a unicorn. I mean, to be able to have that type of information and deliver it to, you know, the middle America and mainstream and have them understand it well, that's a really, like, you don't find that very often. It's usually what's the most popular? There's a lot

Starting point is 00:42:02 of holes in, you know, his philosophies. He's extremely likeable. And I would, if we had a, you know, he would be top five friends of art, like I'm trying to think for sure. That's what I'm saying. He makes that small list. Yeah, he makes the small list of like, you know, and that list is growing obviously more than five.

Starting point is 00:42:17 It's probably like at least the top 10 people that we all talk to on a pretty regular basis. Yeah, he's a hyper-intelligent guy and his story is phenomenal. I mean, the guy's mom was stricken with Alzheimer's. He just lost his... Yeah, and our condolences, his mother just passed away. But that's what drove him to figure out

Starting point is 00:42:38 the best way to eat for brain health. Like, how can we, because Alzheimer's is an epidemic, it's an epidemic a lot of people aren't aren't talking about and as the population ages, it's gonna be one of those things like diabetes. That's just it's it. Do you do you remember the moment where I think he realized that he really liked us?

Starting point is 00:42:56 Do you guys remember when it was what moment? I played top golf. It was when we were playing. Oh, he walked over. Oh, that was my favorite. He walked over to me and I think what it was, we had all worked people, right? He's about as awkward as I am with that.

Starting point is 00:43:09 That's why I love him so much. You guys are the same guy. Yes, for sure. We've talked about this before. If you were to pass away, that Max would be your, did we say that? Yeah, I think so. So he comes, I have him meet us over at Top Golf.

Starting point is 00:43:23 And this is really the first time we all kind of mingled together Before that we hadn't done anything yet. It was just a podcast. Yeah, right and so he came by and He sees us all goofing around and playing golf and you know nobody is a good girl Taylor is the only golf red everyone there Yeah, but it's like a work type event But I he saw the way we were interacting and teasing each other. And it, but it was like in a very brotherly love type of way. Yeah. And you could tell that he was like, fuck, these guys are more than just a podcast interviewers

Starting point is 00:43:55 and business people like, they're all, you could see the camaraderie and he came over and he had said that to me and I said, oh, yeah, man, we wouldn't even have brought you down here. If we didn't really like you, we don't hang out with everybody like we really like you. So that was and then that was and then we had Ruscio come down and all this. And another guy and the thing about Max and this is a you can always tell this isn't guarantee someone's going to be great or an awesome person, but it is a pretty good indicator. Max, he was watching us all golf and yes, Taylor is the only one that knows how to golf,

Starting point is 00:44:24 but you guys are also Somewhat athletic and then I get up there and I'm just hilarious with how I hit it Although I did pretty good through my for because I was able to calculate what I was doing But anyway, I go for a swing and it's just I look you know, I look terrible I'm jerky and and you know short with my movements or whatever and everybody's laughing and I'm razzin you guys are fucking with me And I love it right max goes up there because we we egg him on We're like oh fucking go come on dude play with us who cares? He's like right so he goes up there and he looks just as bad as me

Starting point is 00:44:54 It was the same And and we all laughed and we were we were laughing at him and he turned around and at that moment That's when you know yeah, they going to get offended? Exactly. Is he going to get like a set or a... He laughed along with this and loved it and then right away I'm like, this guy's the guy. He can take it. That's all great.

Starting point is 00:45:13 Yeah. And then later on, that's when Ruscio came down. Now, before that too, we had done a podcast with him the year before. We had podcasts with him before, but this is also what really kicked off us starting to hang out and spend more time with Ruce Because I that night I remember I went on later on to go hang out with him and have drinks and we we were together almost all night That night and that was when I really connected with with Michael a lot and they're all so he's up there with that Mike was also and Rucey was playing out of the handful of times. Yeah, Ruce is somebody who, if you, and we interviewed him this year on the list,

Starting point is 00:45:47 if you, I mean, I think he is my favorite source of information, anything got released. He's just a well. And he's very, very careful. He's like so anti-dogmatic that he's so careful about the presented, when he presents, sometimes I tease him, remember when we were at the fire and I,

Starting point is 00:46:02 you know, just fucking spit it out, bro. Because he's so careful to me. It means you like a thousand coffee apps. Yes, yes, he does it, but he doesn't want to. But I get it. I respect that, though, because. He's a doctor. Yeah, no, very measured.

Starting point is 00:46:14 The way he can present information, I love it. He's just. One of my favorite conversations of all time, or in recent memory, was that around the fire. And him, it was me, him, and Pekolsky and... Shallow. And Shallow, and we all went, like, we went to, like, level 15 nerd. We started speculating about all kinds of different things.

Starting point is 00:46:36 And one of my favorite things to do, first of all, I love conversation, obviously. I don't think that's a secret. But I really, really like talking to curious, intelligent people to where I can get challenged and we continue to elevate the level of the conversation. And that was one of my favorite conversations. Trying to solve the word's problems.

Starting point is 00:46:55 And just, and not only nobody's mad or irritated, or whatever, we're just really interested. It's just a perspective. Oh, so good. Yeah, that was fun to listen to, for sure. So here was one that I was really nervous to do I did not know how our audience would receive it I mean, I know we're notorious for touching the third rails and doing things

Starting point is 00:47:17 Zero flux or whatever and I was really scared to go Interview a bishop We went and were you really that nervous about I was I was really scared to go interview a bishop. We went and did. Were you really that nervous about him? I was. I was really worried that we were. I could tell you were. Like he was gonna get too churchy.

Starting point is 00:47:32 Yeah, exactly. I didn't know if he was gonna come off like a preacher. And I remember sound sharing, cause this was South's lead. And I mean, everybody knows like my, what my beliefs are, right? And so he's showing me, and I'm like, I love the information. I'm like, so I grew up listening to this information,

Starting point is 00:47:54 so I'm with you on it, but I don't know if I'm ready to bring some pastor. I don't know if I'm not. I don't know if I'm not. I'm just gonna appreciate it. Right, but the more that I watch the stuff that you were sharing with me the more I like okay I really like the way this guy to a reminding me like Jordan Peterson

Starting point is 00:48:11 Where the way he presents a lot of the information in the Bible and so I thought okay If there was ever someone we would do on the show, but it was a glass Bishop Baron has to be one of my top three yes favorite interviews Oh, my favorites. Now here's the thing. First of all, I appreciate something about the three or the four of us, I should say, is that we trust each other. And I appreciate that you guys trusted me with bringing a Catholic bishop and interviewing them on the show. And my experience with Bishop Baron, so I was watching Jordan Peterson videos and agreeing with most of it, disagreeing with some of it. And when you YouTube, when you look up someone's name,

Starting point is 00:48:52 other videos pop up, and then here's this Catholic Bishop who, you know, Bishop Baron's opinion on Jordan Peterson. And I know Jordan Peterson talks a lot about the mythology, if you will, or maybe for lack of a better term, the how Christianity or the Judeo-Christian religions influenced Western societies. Jordan Peterson doesn't talk about it like he believes in God. He talks about it like, this is how it shaped. The theology.

Starting point is 00:49:16 Yeah, this is how it shaped what we believe, and this is how we tell stories. And so that's what was really fascinating. So I'm like, oh, I wonder what a Catholic bishop has to say about Jordan Peterson. Because Jordan Peterson called it he's a heuristics, I think, the way that you interpret the Bible with, he broke all that down, which is very interesting. Well, he talks about the meaning behind the stories, right? And Jordan Peterson is very careful to not say, like, believe in God or believe in Jesus, or he's more breaking it down like a scientist would.

Starting point is 00:49:44 And then here's a Catholic bishop, and I'm like, I wonder what a Catholic bishop would have to say about somebody who's breaking it down in this way without saying, I believe in God, or you should believe in Jesus, or whatever. And Bishop Barron did a phenomenal job, and he did a phenomenal job, because here I am watching this,

Starting point is 00:50:01 and you guys know me, I'm extremely skeptical and agnostic used to be an atheist, and I am watching this and you guys know me. I'm extremely skeptical and you know agnostic used to be an atheist and I'm watching this and I and Bishop Baron made a very compelling case for why Jordan Peterson did a good job But didn't go far enough and I was like whoa if he can get me to Understand where he's coming from I want to watch more of his stuff so I started going through his videos on YouTube and Bishop Baron reminds me of Carl Sagan or Milton Friedman. You know, these are people who are excellent communicators.

Starting point is 00:50:34 Excellent communicators. Who, you know, if you're a astrophysicist and you're doing videos on astrophysics, you're gonna get astrophysicist and students to listen to you. That's not right. It's getting people outside of that to hear you and spark their interest. That's very difficult. Carl Sagan did that. Carl Sagan, he developed an entire generation of scientists who were fascinated just from his videos. Milton Friedman did that with the boring,

Starting point is 00:51:01 you know, study of economics. Bishop Barron does that with religion in a way that nobody's ever done. So I watched his videos and I'm like, and he tackles topics that I've never heard a priest even try to talk about. And it makes sense about it. And so I was like, this is fascinating. I'd love to meet with this guy.

Starting point is 00:51:22 And they were super grateful that we contacted him and they were really cool. And you know why it's so funny. So I had no idea he was as big as he is, Bishop Aaron's has a huge following, like he eclipses ours by far. And what they did is they got on the phone with me and I talked to Father Steve, it was,

Starting point is 00:51:38 you guys remember Father Steve? And to see if we should be on the show. And what got them to come on our show was me saying, I'm totally not religious, but what got them to come on our show was me saying I'm totally not religious, but you he got me to like listen to a lot of his videos and like okay cool We want you guys on our show. Yeah, it's because they said okay. Well, this is a good for them It's a good message. It's interesting it I remember and I totally understand why you had reserves Adam because I've I've been through

Starting point is 00:52:03 the same type of experience with church, and I've listened to countless preachers and really charismatic people deliver certain messages and I was very concerned with jumping the shark. Yeah, I see. All the time. Right. Right. And, but I did remember that we had interviewed Perry Marshall and Perry Marshall was going

Starting point is 00:52:28 to be this interview about marketing and like online marketing and all the stuff. And all he wanted to talk about was like the mean of God. And like, like you went crazy. You know, it's crazy. And I'd love it. And I wish we were better interviewers back then. Sure. Yes.

Starting point is 00:52:43 Because I remember when we were going into that interview, we were kind of like, which we asked them about. And we had this idea, I remember that interview, and we had this idea like, hey, let's ask an interview what they want to talk about, and then let's just drive it. That's right. And that's how that got there. We get them on the phone, we're talking to them before we get on air to record,

Starting point is 00:53:02 and we're talking to them about, and he's kind of, what do you guys want to ask? Talk about, we're like, well, what are you into right now? What are you reading heavily? And I knew, I don't know, one of you or both of you had inside track that he was already into studying evolution and creation.

Starting point is 00:53:15 That was just an end. And so you knew he was into that. And you're like, I'd really love to ask him about that. And we're like, well, fuck it, let's just tell him. He just did, yeah. And we were scared to death. And that was a whole episode. Yeah, that was a whole episode. I was like mortified to see what the we're like, well, fuck it. Let's just tell you just did. Yeah. And we were scared to death. And that was a whole episode. Yeah. I was like mortified to see what the forum would like, you know, hammer us with. I tell you what, I

Starting point is 00:53:31 was a little bit, I was even a little apprehensive about getting a Catholic bishop on the show. But you know, what I told you earlier is what convinced part of what convinced me. Here's the other thing that convinced me is you guys know me very well now. I cannot stand hypocrisy. I really fucking hate hypocrisy. And I thought to myself and I said, why am I so apprehensive to have a Catholic Christian,

Starting point is 00:53:58 Bishop talk, when I'm not apprehensive to have someone come and talk about fucking Ayahuasca, or spirits in the crystals crystals or weird new age stuff and I say weird jokingly, but we have no problem having people like Paul check on talk about this. Why am I apprehensive? I'm like, this is stupid, fuck that. It's just another segment of that kind of stuff.

Starting point is 00:54:19 He's a very smart guy, have them on the show and let's see what happens. And again, one of my favorite episodes. I'd say one of my top three. Yeah, I feel the same way. And we got a great response, which which was awesome. Yeah, no, that was a lot of good ones. Here was a surprise one that I didn't anticipate to be good, but I thought was a really good conversation. It led to another podcast was Larry Hagner with that edge podcast. Yeah, that was that was a cool podcast. I was I wasn't ready for it to be that good. I thought you could tell didn't he interview you? Yeah, I was gonna say after the word. I led to the interview with

Starting point is 00:54:51 Adam. Remember the irony of that was so he comes on the show and we kind of know of him. We were can I think Josiah connected us to him. I believe it was and he was going to come on the show and we we didn't know much about him other than what Josiah had kind of passed along but we knew he was gonna come on the show and we didn't know much about him other than what Joe Sigh had kind of passed along. But we knew he was a good podcaster and he has a successful podcast and we thought, okay, we'll figure something out. You guys are both fucking dads. You guys can talk dad stuff, right?

Starting point is 00:55:14 That's literally what's kind of the attitude. And we were like, obsolete quickly. Well, we did the interview and one, he interviews us and I think that he did a really good job. You know, it's always challenging to navigate through three guys and so with that. So I thought you could tell by his, it was a very professional interview the way he did it. And then I think, I think the little bit that I talked to him about surprised him that

Starting point is 00:55:39 I would have anything to contribute to the whole dad conversation. Well, you guys just had so much in common in terms of like, you know, I grew up in everything. And I think he really connected with you specifically. And then that led into, you guys going really deep on his podcast. Yeah, he called me up afterwards. And he says, Hey, would you feel comfortable

Starting point is 00:55:57 with talking more about your dad's suicide? And I said, yeah, no, I'm going to open a book with that stuff, man. And if you think that it can help some of your audience and he goes, no, you have no idea, he goes, you know, I think your message needs to be heard to my audience. I said, cool, let's do it. And what a response. Yeah. I still get responses from that right now. In fact, he actually just texted me yesterday, a day before his team were going over their analytics and stuff from month of our month. And said like that that episode I think is the biggest

Starting point is 00:56:27 downloaded episode that they have and made such a big difference on his month it was their largest month of downloads from that so I got I still get trickled in DMs from that which is crazy to me because it literally that's it kind of just I kind of went through my childhood and what it's like BNA a son to somebody who commits suicide at seven years old. And then all the other, all the complications and challenges. Yeah, yeah, I went into all the, did you ever listen to it?

Starting point is 00:56:53 Did you guys listen to it? I listened to it. It was a very compelling, I would say. Yeah, very, very powerful. I think it's an important interview. If you guys haven't heard it, you gotta go over to the dad edge podcast and find it where Adam gets interviewed because he gets pretty deep.

Starting point is 00:57:10 So it's good stuff. So after Larry, this was a cool one because this was probably selfishly for us, probably one of our favorite all-time guests just because of who that person is to all of us. And that was Mark Mastro. Oh, yeah. One of my top top.

Starting point is 00:57:27 What an awesome interview. Yeah, Mark Mastroff was the founder of 24-hour fitness. And now he's just this billionaire who's got all these fitness brands under his name. But, you know, we do not make it a secret that all of us were brought up. We owe a lot to him. Yeah, 24-hour fitness was my school for a long time. Yeah, I mean, all the idea of a lot of learning of us were brought up. We owe a lot to him. Yeah, 24th Fitness was my school for a long time.

Starting point is 00:57:46 Yeah, I mean, all the idea of a lot of learning and stuff on my own, but I got mentored by people who I still consider, you know, some of the most important mentors that I've had my entire life, were people that I met there. What I learned about communication, sales, business, the way that company was run, I mean, it was so far in

Starting point is 00:58:06 ahead of anybody else. It really was, I had this love, hate relationship with it because then I had my own challenges after the company kind of changed hands after, especially after Mark left, but MassRough is still, I still look up to him like, it's funny, I got more nervous meeting and interviewing him than other guests because he's still Mark Massifold. Well, I felt that with all of us, he has that father figure presence because,

Starting point is 00:58:34 I mean, for at least for me, literally all the tools that I use to today to be successful as a fitness professional, all STEM and are in Thanks and because of him. I mean the what I learned at 24 our fitness trumps so much If anything else that I've acquired later on or from other people The those those that foundation that was laid is because the company he created and even though he didn't have a direct real strong Relationship people he trained in develop.

Starting point is 00:59:05 It's amazing to feel how I felt for him coming in. There being like, man, this is the dude that made it possible for what we're doing today. Because it's also full circle because, you know, what, and it's hard to explain to people, those early days of the growth of, of, of 24th fitness in the environment that it was. I don't know how it is now. Because there's nothing like it right now. Yeah, but back then, I can tell you, I can list, literally, I can list 10 people that I know

Starting point is 00:59:33 who were performers, top performers in that company, general managers, fitness managers, sales counselors, operations, who are now millionaires, all doing their own things. And it's because of how the skills that they learn and the environment that they worked in in those days of 25th, it's literally, I can name 10 millionaires.

Starting point is 00:59:51 That's the environment that we were in. I don't think it'll ever be recreated. And we were a part of it. And it's funny, I left the company before you guys did and then you guys ended up leaving. We did our own things and started our own businesses. And it's funny having Mark walk into our studio. I wanted him to see how well we were doing.

Starting point is 01:00:10 You know what I mean? I wanted to show him like, hey, look, you know, your company hired me or whatever. We did this, but now look what we're doing. It was really cool. I also have this special. I'm gonna be proud. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:21 I also have this special connection to him because I got to be a part of, you know, I was there for 10 years And I was there the first five with him and the next five without him and that was what it was huge contrast Right. Yeah, and it was so important to my My growth in business and just understanding business and operation like at that scale just understanding business and operation like at that scale. Here you have this billion dollar company, a guy that I don't even really see or get to talk to that much.

Starting point is 01:00:50 I mean, it count on one hand how many times I interact to with Mark over the 10 years that I was there or the five years that he was there and I was there. But to see them pull him out and see the changes that happen because the leadership changed and how different of I watched the company completely change and unfortunately for the bad it was not good the best times were when Mark was leading and it also it's something that I feel like I will be faced with one day where

Starting point is 01:01:20 you're at a point where the company is at a point where you have the options to sell it, you have the options to keep growing it, to just try and maintain it. I mean, and no one really thinks about that, but I see that in like Joe D'Ascina, like when we talked to him who's got 300 employees and can't be connected to everything that you're, at what point do you realize that maybe this thing

Starting point is 01:01:43 is causing me more stress than it is good and What is the smartest thing for me to do and to watch him leave something like that and then to watch it kind of crumble afterwards And the big lesson from it was the importance of people How important people you can have all the best being counters you can have all the best being counters, you can have all the best, you know, CEOs coming in with all the the baddest background pedigrees, but if you don't have the people, the right people, and if the people don't believe in the purpose behind what you're doing, because that's what was lost. Like when Mark was there, people were, we used to say bleep purple, because that was the color of 24 fitness. When he left, that attitude was gone. And it just confirmed that, and we talk about it

Starting point is 01:02:28 on this show, how important culture is in business. Doesn't matter if you have a virtual online business, doesn't matter if you have a gym, it doesn't matter. How big or small it is, how important the culture is of the success, especially in health and fitness, man. Absolutely. So that was a, especially in health and fitness, man. Absolutely. So that was a...

Starting point is 01:02:46 Yeah, I remember, you know, just to give you an idea of the kind of person that he was, I was a... I'd be started as a trainer, then I became a fitness manager very quickly, and then I wanted to move over into managing the clubs, and back in those days,

Starting point is 01:02:58 they didn't move trainers over to general manager. General managers usually had a strong sales background or management background, but because I was such a high performer, they gave me the opportunity, but they said, you need to be an assistant general manager first. So I was an AGM assistant general manager

Starting point is 01:03:13 of the Sunnyvale 21st, shout out to Club 506. So I was the AGM there, and I was doing, at the time, I was doing numbers that were totally unheard of. Like back in those days, if you would sell, just to give the audience an idea, if you were selling $25,000 worth of, what do these call commissionable sales,

Starting point is 01:03:33 you were a killer. If you had $30,000, you were a god. I was hitting in the 40s, and nobody ever seen this before. And here's this young 18 year old cocky kid. And I remember I was upstairs, I was on the phones, trying to make appointments.

Starting point is 01:03:46 And one of my first mentors, Don Cardona, walks up and he goes, Mark Mastroff's downstairs. I knew he was the owner, because everybody talked about it. At this time, I think 25th in his head, like 140 something club. So they were already a pretty damn big company. Mark Mastroff's downstairs, he wants you to give him a tour, treat him like a guest, and he wants to see what you're doing.

Starting point is 01:04:04 So here's the owner of a company who sees this some kid in some club doing things that no one else is doing. He came all the way to the club and had me give him a tour personally. Personally, yeah. And had me give him a tour. And so I did.

Starting point is 01:04:19 I treated him like a guest, and this was either me being naive or because I was cocky. I wasn't intimidated. I think I did a fantastic job, right? Didn't the whole tour brought him up. This is when the way I sold memberships was I sold fitness first. So I talked about training, the benefits of working with a trainer.

Starting point is 01:04:34 Nobody done that before. So he told me how great that was. Awesome. He gave me some objections to see how it overcome them. And then before he left, I said, uh, I want you to make me a general manager. I actually said this to him and he says, you're too young. And I said, Mark, I will, I will make it to the point where you you to make me a general manager. I actually said this to him. And he says, you're too young. And I said, Mark, I will make it to the point where you have to make me a general manager.

Starting point is 01:04:49 I'm going to perform so hard. And he loved it. And he smiled. And he shook my hand. He goes, I like you. I like you a lot. And he left. And sure enough, I became a general manager

Starting point is 01:04:58 a few months later. But to have a guy who owns a company that big, come in and do that, kind of cool. That's a big deal. Yeah, that was a very big deal. And I big come in and do that kind of cool. That's a big deal. That was a very big deal. And I think a very important interview for all of us will forever be that way too, which is great too.

Starting point is 01:05:11 We've now remained in contact. He was actually supposed to be here this week and I think had a rescheduled thing. He's coming back in January. I can't wait for round two. Yeah, yeah, no, great. And that's nothing to, besides all of us. Oh my gosh, listen to her episode. I know, we're over here just jerking them off on who he is, but he actually even if you

Starting point is 01:05:25 had don't care about any of that stuff, you great story. Oh, listen to that episode. Great. He's no holds bar, man. One of the top when we got to talk shit. I love it. What I think of like the episodes that were I mean, he has one of the episodes that stand out to me that are just you could not care about anything in that space. Just told really good stories. Yes. You know, him, Joe DeCino was like that. So that's another great one when we saw again.

Starting point is 01:05:49 Very entertaining. Yeah, Joe, I mean, did not disappoint the second time around again. Oh my gosh. He came down and we got to talk to some of his buddies. Yeah. That was fun. That's a recent episode. And if you haven't listened to that, you got to, because halfway through the podcast,

Starting point is 01:06:04 he's talking about his buddy and he goes, we gotta give him a call. And he calls the guy and the guy picks up the phone and that guy tells us so great stories. I think he did that twice in that of Harry. He knows a bunch of characters. He did. And he's such a good guy.

Starting point is 01:06:15 Man, it's so neat when you meet somebody too like that. And when you continue to meet people that know him, have nothing but good. You talk about a legacy, right? Like, what do you want your legacy to be? You don't just see this like a master off? Yeah, that's similar. Yes, to me, that's such a great example

Starting point is 01:06:32 of what an incredible legacy this guy is leaving when, I've met probably 50 plus people now that know Joe personally and every one of them. Love them. Yeah, love them and speaks very, very highly of them. So that was excellent one. Flex Wheeler. Yes.

Starting point is 01:06:49 Flex Wheeler was... How about Flex demanding his red carpet treatment? I know, right. I'm on first class. Go big time. No, no, no, no. Flex Wheeler was one of the greatest, or probably the greatest, uncrown Mr. Olympia bodybuilder.

Starting point is 01:07:05 I was a huge fan of bodybuilding in the 90s growing up. Remember I was a skinny kid, right? So I want to lift weights to build muscle. So I'd buy all the bodybuilding magazines, all the muscle magazines. I'd read everything I possibly could to try and learn as much as I could.

Starting point is 01:07:17 And Flex was always in the magazines. He was always one of those top guys. And so to selfishly, one of the my favorite things about what we do is that we now have leverage to meet people. We've always wanted to meet. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, when will I ever be able to sit down with one of my, a guy that I looked up to, you know, 20 or 30 years ago, that we're going to sit here and talk about,

Starting point is 01:07:38 you know, bodybuilding. Yeah, let's exploit this new power. Yeah. And so exactly. So now I can call him and be like, yeah, I have this big podcast. I'm going to call him. I'm like, I'm going to be Flex Whe power. Yeah, and so exactly so not I can call him be like, yeah, I have this big podcast I'm gonna come on my own like I'm gonna be flex Wheeler. Yeah, you know, so we had him on the show and Surprising story of his childhood and what he been through very interesting I think the interview was I think it was good. I don't think it was like the best conversation

Starting point is 01:07:56 But I think it was good him going deep into and being very honest about how we grew up and stuff I thought was fast did you have him sign your wife, Peter? Yeah, totally. I was, I was, I was not a fan of him heading in. Now, I was always been a fan of his physique, but because I also have to deal with the back end stuff of like the, you know, what are we, where are they booking? What are we doing? And I'm communicating, well, was he a prima donna? Total prima donna. Total prima donna. And I'm like, this motherfucker, you know? And when I, when like this and we've had a handful of them That can be like this where if we reach out to them and we won't we invite them on the show

Starting point is 01:08:35 They they feel all big time and then they try and search well Can I stay here and can I fly here afterwards and oh? I only fly first class and get the fuck out of here Like we're already flying you out paying for you and can I fly here afterwards and oh, I only fly first class and get the fuck out of here. Like we're already flying you out and paying for your hotel. That's a fucking nice treat because we don't do that for anybody. Maybe in 1980. I think it's a bodybuilder thing for a 90s. Well, I'm telling you almost it was all Sean Ray did the same.

Starting point is 01:08:58 Yeah, Sean Ray did the same thing. Yeah, Sean Ray, another top bodybuilder from the 90s. Same thing. He did that whole pre-med. And so did John Meadows. Yep. So all the body builder guys, and that was what we used to. So fun at Red Carpet, yeah.

Starting point is 01:09:10 We have much bigger people in this show that are happy to be on the show. You fuckers won first class over here. But Sean Ray, what a great conversation. That guy's entertaining as fuck. What a great conversation. He's a great shit talker. Great shit talker.

Starting point is 01:09:24 Everybody knows him as that and good information but just also very entertaining I was surprised at how entertaining Sean Ray was on the podcast that was that was a lot of fun yeah and I should say that I mean it flexed surprise me and it was a nice treat so I ended up really liking him when we got once you got into studio we we did the interview, we hung out afterwards. I definitely really liked him. And I know I think you've remained texting him more than I have. Yeah, it's like this cool.

Starting point is 01:09:50 But he's been really cool. And then Sean too was like that. Sean was a surprise. A lot of people, he in the body building world, I thought we were gonna rile him up a little bit. Remember we were trying to get him. He's got this like moniker of being like an asshole. Like he's an asshole, which I thought would be good for the podcast

Starting point is 01:10:07 He was cool with us and he was very entertaining. I didn't get too much of that asshole vibe from him No, no, you know, we obviously went on this little run where we must have been this this little world right here So then we went to Stan Effarding after this. Yes. All right. So Stan was cool. Superino Rants Stan Effarding is a power lifter, bodybuilder, kind of a big muscle building personality in social media and new media. Really smart dude, great business guy. He was somebody who I had been following for a long time, so I was excited to have him on the show

Starting point is 01:10:40 because I found him around the same time that I found Lane. And this is when I'm like, and I was reminded the audience, it's like I was not this like aspiring bodybuilder or even give two shits about that side of the world. I probably was more like Justin with the sports performance thing like that. I was not into any of that stuff.

Starting point is 01:10:59 So I don't know none of these fuckers at all. You know more about bodybuilding than I do. And so I'm getting into it. So I'm researching it. I'm looking up all the people that are the big names and who's making the waves on social media, who's putting out what. And I remember just like spending hours and hours on YouTube and on social media looking for, you know, information out there that what was good. I was trying to filter and so much bullshit out there. I felt like he's one of the smartest things. He was. That's where I'm getting.

Starting point is 01:11:26 Bodybuilders that I've run into. And I very much appreciated that episode because of his nutritional approach, his science behind it, things that he had highlight in terms of like, people really needing to look more into salt and... Gut health. Gut health and digestion.

Starting point is 01:11:43 Yeah. And just, I just appreciated that like he, he also was into like strength, training and doing like real like compound lifts and you know, he still integrated that a lot and he looks like a freaking superhero. Yeah. No, he was, he was awesome. I mean, he was, he was as every bit as good as I had wanted him to be. Again, I would follow him for a long time. I love the information he was as every bit as good as I had wanted him to be. Again, I would

Starting point is 01:12:05 follow him for a long time. I love the information he was putting out. He was one of the few. I was consuming a lot of their content when I was getting into competing. And I really liked what he was putting on. And I loved his radical honesty. You know, another guy that, you know, openly talked about steroids. He's not trying to hide into that stuff. And it was educating people on nutrition in the bodybuilding community. I just, I think he had a counter message to much that was out there and it's good to see him continue to get traction and keep growing because he's a really good fucking guy.

Starting point is 01:12:35 So I like Stan a lot. After Stan, then we had Warren Farrell. Yeah. Yes. Yep, that was great. Warren Farrell was a little third railish. Yep, I found him a while ago on social media. And he talked about the, you know,

Starting point is 01:12:50 he wrote a book called The Boy Crisis. And he talked about, he used to be a feminist. And he left the feminist movement when you saw that it wasn't about equality as much as it was about, you know, creating this narrative of an oppressive patriarchy and how that's all the story is, that's how it's all about. But he's a very smart guy

Starting point is 01:13:10 and he's very intelligent that we're presenting and he talks a lot about fatherhood and it's controversial only because of the current climate. Yeah, I don't think he's there anything he's saying that's controversial. I didn't feel that way at all throughout the entire interview but I knew the response was, there's gonna be, especially YouTube, I mean YouTube, I think,

Starting point is 01:13:27 is a different, oh we got a nice little, we got a lot of controversy. Oh, it's a different place for different comments. We lost the most followers on YouTube, not very many, but we lost the most we've ever, we don't hardly ever lose anybody on YouTube and we lost some followers that day because, and it was unfortunate because every one of the people that

Starting point is 01:13:46 They didn't listen to the actual episode and it was really irritating to see that like wow that you're so turned off It's because things get politicized man. That's the problem because it was really a good conversation I mean he talked about you know the the bit like the value of a of fathers. Yeah, why they're so important and what happens to kids when they're not I don't know how that's controversial. And both sides, he was bringing up and highlighting the importance of both sexism, what they bring, you know, to relationships and to, you know, the development of kids and it was just very balanced and equal and rational. He was talking about the dance that men and women play with each other when they're courting each other and how the fear today of, you know, going, oh no, I don't want to come across as, you know, being harassing, I can't flirt, I can't do these type of things.

Starting point is 01:14:32 You say, well, this is a new time and it's a difficult one because this is how men and women have always interacted. And of course, it can go too far and be, be bad. But, you know, like, like we talked about that, like how some colleges say, you need to ask for every step along the way you have to get positive affirmation, like, can I kiss you? Yes.

Starting point is 01:14:50 Can I touch your boob? Yes. And he's like, listen, this isn't how people do. It's ridiculous. This is not how people, not normal interactions. Romance each other. And he goes, women don't like this either for the most part. But yet, that's something controversial.

Starting point is 01:15:02 Yeah, when I took away, it was a big thing was just basically rough housing and the importance of that type of play, especially with boys, but also with little girls too, but just what that provides and like the insight he brought with that, I really like, it made me think constantly, like I need to do this more with my kids and I'm teaching them things. Did you, learning? Did you increase the frequency of rough housing with your boys after 100%? I did the same thing.

Starting point is 01:15:32 Same thing. And you know it's funny. So check this out, right? So, and this is a 100% true story. Obviously, the audience knows I went through a divorce a few years ago. And the hard thing of doing that with kids is that moving them from home to home and the kids have to adjust. And my daughter, I'm a very affectionate father.

Starting point is 01:15:53 I tell my kids I love them all the time. I kiss them all the time. I do lots of things for them all the time. But every once in a while, my daughter would have a little bit of an issue when she'd come to my place. And I couldn't figure out if it was just my daughter having had a two problem, or is it because of this whole thing. We had the interview with Warren Farrell and he talked about the importance of rough housing

Starting point is 01:16:08 with your kids. And right after that, I'm like, I need to make more of an effort. And so I told my daughter, hey, do you want a rough house? She's like, what's that? Like, we're going to wrestle. She's like, okay. So I started doing it on a regular basis. And my relationship with my daughter got so much better.

Starting point is 01:16:22 She's so much more excited when she sees me. She knows that, you know, we do this thing where I get a blanket and she gets in the blanket and I wrap up the blanket. I carry her around like I'm Santa Claus and I swing her in the blanket and then she gets on my back and I try to buck around. She tries to hold on and we play this game and it's so awesome because it's something she looks forward to. It's something that I can take away if she's not, if she's acting up and it's a great way to have that interaction and fun with my daughter. And it's like, well, I know that episode.

Starting point is 01:16:49 And the message that he, he gave about that was you're teaching her that it's okay to be touching and playing with another man and it not be sexual. That's right. That's the big lesson that makes him comfortable with their bodies. Right. Right. I thought that was a really good. That was, I mean, there was a lot of takeaways in that one I mean that was he was a treat. He's up there with Personally, I enjoyed it a lot some of my favorite interviews. I like when I mean I enjoy a fun interview and some of that Where it's entertaining, but I like an interview sometimes where it like like you say right there like you Went home and you fundamentally changed something that you were doing because of something they said and then saw a positive

Starting point is 01:17:24 Resolve that that to me is a powerful Interview his was definitely you know changed something that you were doing because of something they said and then saw a positive result. That to me is a powerful interview. His was definitely, you know, here's a sleeper, at least it was for me, because I remember getting referred this guy and turning it down like a year before because I kind of first glance looked at his stuff that he was putting out, seemed a little woo, woo, whatever, and I was like, I just kind of moved on. But that was Dr. Steven Crabral. I remember that he was fire.

Starting point is 01:17:49 He was fire. Very smart guy in the community. Kids it very well. Yes. Yeah. I've heard multiple people talk about subject matter that was similar, but the way that he delivered it, in a different way, but it clicked even more somehow.

Starting point is 01:18:03 Functional medicine doctor, he talked about Asian medicine, Western medicine, how they combine, talked about all the issues that we're starting to run into now in modern times, all the chronic illnesses, autoimmune issues, thyroid issues, talked about the benefits of sauna, how to use them properly, the sympathetic parents, sympathetic state.

Starting point is 01:18:22 His episode lit up all the intellectuals that listen to our show. I got so many messages from people. They were like best episode ever. They loved it. That episode is packed full of information. It's one of those you listen to multiple times. There's not a lot of them that you're like,

Starting point is 01:18:38 oh, I have to listen to it again. Yep, yeah, that's one of those. If you're here purely for entertainment and you're not looking for information, it's not the episode for you, right? But it's exactly that. That's what it was. That's why it those. If you're here purely for entertainment and you're not looking for information, it's not the episode for you, right? But it's exactly that. That's why it was jam-packed. Sleeper to me was, I won, I wasn't sure how much I was gonna like him,

Starting point is 01:18:52 ended up really liking him. And then just knowledge bomb after knowledge bomb. And again, to your point, Sal, the way he communicates the information, I think. And we actually did some YouTube videos because he was so good. And they did very well. Yeah, we said, hey, Sal, you got to go talk to him

Starting point is 01:19:07 about a couple other topics. So we can put that up on the YouTube channel that are still performing really well. So he was a great treat. He was an interesting one. This was right after that, we saw Michael Wood. Mm. And Michael Wood was the, I heard him first or Justin

Starting point is 01:19:27 heard him first, I think, and then introduced him to me on the Joe Rogan podcast. And he had a really good, interesting discussion. He's a Baltimore cop who, you know, during that whole era of Freddie Gray, he came out and was talking about the things that the police were doing behind the scenes that was very controversial. That's why Rogan had on the show, right?

Starting point is 01:19:52 Yeah, yeah. He basically brought him on to clear up a different perspective from the cops perspective, but also that he was kind of fighting internally to change the way that they handle a lot of these issues and things. So he was a different cat. He was different, yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:11 I was what I was trying to do there. And when I had heard him, the interviews I listened to, he seemed like he had kind of a strong liberal side to him. Yes. And I was intentionally trying to set him and Salah for a very... Yeah, we thought that would make it a little spicy. Well, I mean, here's the thing, I get along with liberal, liberal ideas, you know, half the time and the same thing with, with conservatives, but there's certain things that he says that I fundamentally believe are wrong. Like, you know, the way he would

Starting point is 01:20:41 talk about racism and stuff like, and so, you know, I thought, okay, well, cool. Let's have a discussion on the podcast. I'll challenge him and we'll have a great conversation. And he talked in fucking circles. It's one of my worst, my, one of my least favorite interviews because the guy literally would not make sense in the circular talk and use words that what's the, what's the, there's a word that describes it where, where you use 15 words when you can just use one. Right. What is that? Where they, the what there's a word that describes it where it where you use 15 words when you can

Starting point is 01:21:06 Just use one right what is that were they anyway? There's a term for it. Yeah, yeah, it just just I'm like, okay You literally communicated something that required one sentence and you said a paragraph of big words and now we're back at the beginning So I really did not like that. It wasn't very judicious about it. Yeah, he was a he was not a he was a cool guy It wasn't a bad guy and it's like that a cool guy, it wasn't a bad guy, it's like that, but yeah, one of my least favorite interviews from him. Yeah, that was interesting. It didn't pan out the way.

Starting point is 01:21:29 I still thought it was an interesting interview. I thought it was an interesting perspective, but actually, to be honest, I probably had more interest in like off-air. Yeah, we had a great conversation. Yeah, it was fascinating to pick his brain about this. Sometimes that's a little bit of a bummer, right? There's that.

Starting point is 01:21:43 And we always, we pride ourselves on capturing this always for our audience. Sometimes it's just difficult. If we greet somebody at the door, then we end up standing there for 20 minutes and talking to them before they walk in. But we try and set it up where Doug has got everything set up. We're already sitting in the studio and we bring the guest in and you guys get to hear the first five minutes of us. Yeah, we don't want to waste conversation. Yeah, we don't want to waste,

Starting point is 01:22:10 and we want to be as authentic as possible. So you guys get to hear if there's this awkward kind of meeting and warming up with the conversation or whatever. And he was one of those few where the stuff that we talked about off the ball, you know who else was like this? Robert Overs was like this. You know, the kind of thing.

Starting point is 01:22:26 Oh yeah. I'm like, oh my God, I wish our audience. The most epic stories you've ever heard. Yes, like the, I mean, you know, we couldn't, you know, he wouldn't talk about it. Yes, so every once in a while, we have these guests that,

Starting point is 01:22:38 and it's not that they're not authentic or honest. I think, you know, in Robert's case, I know he was, it was the stories he was scared to tell on there. Yeah. So I get, I get why he didn, in Robert's case, I know he was, it was the stories he was scared to tell on the air. So I get, I get why he didn't share some of his stories, but, yeah, that made sense. Yeah, but some of the best stuff we had with him was never made it on air. Michael Wood, I felt the same way too. Justin and I must talk an hour with him afterwards.

Starting point is 01:22:57 I left. Yeah, we talked, we talked about his relationship with Joe Rogan. We talked about his relationship with Joe Rogan. We talked about his relationship with on it. Those guys we talked about just all kinds of stuff and it was really fun talking with them. I'm like, fuck, this should have been on air. So, but that was I thought it was still a good episode, just a different cat. And then we had Rich Kaspari. This one. Yeah. Yeah. This was one of Sal's. Yeah, yeah, this was one of sales. Rich, Rich Kaspari was a top bodybuilder in the 80s and early 90s, also owned one of the more, one of the larger supplement companies of the, I'd say the early 2000s, he, he

Starting point is 01:23:35 started, he was a one selling the designer steroids before they became illegal. He's one of the first guys to do that. He created Super Pump 250, which is like one of the first pre-workouts to really, I mean the way he marketed was just brilliant. So I thought, let's have him on the show. And I thought it was a good episode. We talked about business and whatnot. I don't think it was a spectacular episode. But I thought we had a good conversation. So I enjoyed it. Yeah, I think he had some nostalgia there, right? Like from back in the day, he's just bringing him on. So it's interesting to talk to these kinds of guys.

Starting point is 01:24:07 I don't think yeah, it was quite as entertaining as it could have been, but you know, there's definitely a lot of material there that was great to cover and just like his, you kind of pioneered a lot of directions in terms of the supplement industry and you know, like sort of wedged his impression in that space for sure. I liked him. I was I liked him. I was interested in the conversation.

Starting point is 01:24:35 I didn't feel like it was a great one like I and not by any means because of him or the stuff we just the stuff we talked about there wasn't a't a lot, I feel like it lacked either an incredible story or lacked incredible information or something. Yeah, we kind of just got facts. Yeah, and I think because of the people that we were having around that time, I think it was kind of cool to tie that all in. And I know that ties in a lot of stuff that Sal talks about on the show, so I thought it was neat for those reasons,

Starting point is 01:25:02 like for those that have been listening for a long time, and have heard Sal reference like certain supplements and his brand and things like that. So that was kind of neat, but in the last couple of months, it was probably one of my least favorite. Here was probably the scariest thing that we did. And that was when we decided to touch another third rail

Starting point is 01:25:24 and have a conversation with Chloe Johnson and Benette Casper the transgender. Yeah, that's right the transgender athletes I was excited about it. Yeah, if you actually yeah, this all happened So the way this all happened for the audience who's not familiar We had we did a podcast that was one of our Q&A episodes and in the beginning of it I brought up an article like I often do. So you guys check this out. There was an athlete in New Zealand, Weightlifter, who is breaking records.

Starting point is 01:25:54 But the kicker is, she's transgender. She used to be male. Used to be a male weightlifter and then transitioned to female. And now is breaking records as a female weightlifter and then transition to female and now is breaking records as a female weightlifter. And so we have this whole discussion about whether or not she has an unfair advantage. And we all agree that yes, you have an unfair advantage. If you transition from male to female,

Starting point is 01:26:16 especially post puberty, like you've already had all the benefits of male hormones and you get muscle hyperplasia, muscle fiber hyperplasia, you get bigger bones. And that all doesn't completely reverse just because you go on hormone therapy and transition to be a female. And we're very honest that that was our opinion,

Starting point is 01:26:32 and we aired that and taught, and we didn't hear much from it from our audience. It was controversial, but I don't think we're very open, cool people, we weren't being, like we don't hate on anybody, we're just saying, hey, physically speaking, we think there's an advantage in this circumstance. And I got an email, or I got a message from the out foundation, which is an organization that is, it's, you know,

Starting point is 01:26:55 works with the LGBT community. And they, what they try to do, I think this is awesome, is they try to get more of them involved in fitness and health and get it, make it more accessible to all of them. Because they in fitness and health and get it make it more accessible to all of them. They view fitness and health as a very body positive thing and it's something that can benefit people who may be challenged from either coming out of the closet or who are transgender. I fully agree, I think, exercise.

Starting point is 01:27:18 We know a study after study shows that exercise positively influences your mental space as much as it influences your physical space and everybody should work out. So I thought that was awesome. They reached out to me and they're like, hey, you know, we heard your episode and we disagree with you. We think that there is no advantage for transgender athletes. And I said, you know, I said, I disagree.

Starting point is 01:27:40 I said, I think in a particular circumstance, like if a male transitions to female, especially after they went through puberty, I said, I think there's a clear advantage. And I did, I was very clear, I said, look, organizations, private organizations, they can let whoever they want compete, so I don't think there should be laws against it, but it's just my opinion.

Starting point is 01:27:58 And they said, well, you know, what if we had someone come on your show to talk about all this and I thought this would be brilliant. Yes. I said, I would love. Let's do this. I said, I would love if you could send me to, you know, send me a transgender athlete that

Starting point is 01:28:14 can talk about this. And they said, we can do even better. We'll send you two. We'll send you a male and a female transgender athlete. And then you guys can have your debate or discussion on that. I said, look, we'll be totally respectful. I want them to change my mind, but I don't think they will. I know fitness, I know the human body.

Starting point is 01:28:29 I said, but I think it'll be a good conversation. And you know what? It was a great conversation. It was very interesting. It was very, very interesting. Yeah, and it was interesting to see kind of how the conversation like navigated and once they started to feel more comfortable. I know it's Bennett, right?

Starting point is 01:28:44 The it was Chloe and Bennett. Yeah, so it was interesting to see when Bennett really started to get involved in the conversation where that started to go. There are certain things that Bennett said that I was totally against. Like everything, he must have said, cisgender white males are the cause of everything.

Starting point is 01:29:00 Yeah. Several times in there. And at one point, I think Adam's like, no, that's not, we're not gonna go there. Yeah, you know, so. That was a scary one for me because I know it's a sensitive topic and I knew I had to go in there being, because I know me.

Starting point is 01:29:17 With soft gloves. Yeah, right. And so I was really careful, like there'd be things that would be said and I'm like, fuck it, I don't wanna jump all over this already, right? This is, I don't want it to turn into that. Like this is supposed to be a healthy conversation, but Bennett was saying several things that I'm like,

Starting point is 01:29:32 I just don't agree with that. I don't think. And then finally, I was like, no, I don't agree with that. White privilege, white privilege. And Adam's like sitting there and Adam is white, but has none of the privilege of being white. The story of privilege, yeah. I don't need to go into it.

Starting point is 01:29:48 People know my views on all that, that segmenting people and giving them value because of their skin color or whatever, which is ironic coming from people who are trying to make everybody blind to race and sex and all that stuff. So that part was a little frustrating. But at the end of it, we were all cool. Everybody respected the fact that we, because we still disagreed at the very end of it, we didn't agree that there wasn't, that it was all.

Starting point is 01:30:11 Yeah, no, I thought it was a very healthy discussion. I actually really liked Chloe. I thought Chloe was really great. Yeah, I thought Chloe was really cool. I actually thought she was a lot more open-minded. I think I felt Bennett came there to argue. Like a more chip on these. He's a lawyer.

Starting point is 01:30:27 He's a lawyer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's his background. And they had an opposing view to ours. And so I felt that apprehension when they first walked in. Well, I felt like he came in and saw three dudes looking the way we did. And he's like, I'm going to attack.

Starting point is 01:30:41 You know what I mean? I need to be the aggressive here. But at the end of it, I think they both realized like, no, we're cool. Yeah, I think we finally sort of had, at the end of it, like we sort of hugged it out and we were like, oh, they realized our intent, you know, with the way that we're trying to deliver information and challenge certain things from a healthy place. And obviously, you know, our very understanding of people

Starting point is 01:31:06 and just like listening to perspectives. And I think that's the lesson through all this is that we are 100% open for discussion. And a lot of times there's people, we just don't agree. And that's totally cool. Well, what happens is there's a lot of people that will say, you know, transgender

Starting point is 01:31:25 athletes should not be allowed to compete in these sports against their, against the gender that they now are. And being transgender is wrong, it's evil, you're, you know, whatever. And so there's a lot of that crossover. We're not those people. We are, look, there's an athletic advantage here. But if you're a human being, you could do whatever you want to yourself. And if I like you and you're nice, I'm gonna be friends with you. And that's something that really binds the four of us.

Starting point is 01:31:55 Like if you look at our friends, we have this wide, eclectic group of people that we consider friends so different in the way they view things, some of them liberal, some of them ultra conservative, some of them, you know, gay, straight, transgender, it doesn't matter. And so I think once they realize that, oh, okay, they're not those kind of people. They're, yeah, and that, then it turned out okay. Yeah, no.

Starting point is 01:32:16 Then the next one, probably one of my personal favorites was Paul Fabritzz, who is JJ Performance. His PJ Performance is somebody who I followed on Instagram back when he had just a few hundred followers. And I remember at that time, the reason why I was even looking at this stuff, I was getting back to playing basketball, I believe I was in a men's league, and I was looking for good content again, looking for people that were providing

Starting point is 01:32:46 good science-based performance-based stuff specific to basketball and he was like the only guy I had literally found. I began falling right away and he was pretty small at that time and I would be communicating with him and say, hey, great pose and commenting on his stuff. This was before the podcast even got going. And then the podcast kept going. And I remember telling you guys about him, like, dude, and I know I got you on to falling in my pants. Yeah, you turn me on to his stuff, like real early. And I was immediately a fan of what he was putting out and his content information, because you got to realize too that on the sports

Starting point is 01:33:25 performance and there are just as many shenanigans and gimmicks and ways to sell people how to train specifically for their sport just to get your money. And that, it's just riddled with that. And so to have somebody that has a real science approach that has really put in his own personal research, it was refreshing to talk to you. Yeah, I didn't know him at all until, we scheduled him to be on the show, and then I saw a social media and stuff,

Starting point is 01:33:53 and I was really impressed with the stuff that he was communicating. And I could see that he was, I mean, I consider myself a good trainer, but 99% of my experience is working with the average person. Here's a guy that works with elite athletes and he's one of the best. And to have him come in and talk and say things that I, you know, that I agree with made me feel good about, you know, what a trainer I am, because I respected the show. He totally affirmed a lot of, yeah, my beliefs, your beliefs, it was great. Yeah. So to hear someone that

Starting point is 01:34:24 I really respect, like, okay, this guy's a bad ass, yeah, my beliefs, your beliefs, it was great. Yeah, so to hear someone that I really respect, like, okay, this guy's a bad ass athletic trainer, like on another level that I, I'm nowhere near. And now he's saying some of the stuff that we've communicated on the show, I'm like, fuck yeah, you know, I felt good about that. Yeah, no, it was a treat. I was not expecting, and I wasn't sure

Starting point is 01:34:40 of how he would be on the podcast, because he really wasn't in the podcast circuit. I'd never really heard him talk for long extended periods of time. A lot of the stuff I got was that it just on Instagram videos, really. Yeah, little clips of him providing information, but just what he was writing and the clips that he was sharing and the way he was breaking down the science

Starting point is 01:35:01 to what he was showing. I was already interested enough that I wanted to talk to this guy and then we met and then absolutely hit him. He was great on the podcast. He's natural. He's natural. No, and I thought, what a cool person. I mean, this is Hardin's freaking guy, you know, saying like how cool is that James Hardin MVP

Starting point is 01:35:17 of the league and we got to talk to his, basically his athletic coach or his guy who's teaching and teaching him all his skill stuff and improving his vertical. So that was a treat and a half. This one was cool. his athletic coach or his guy who's teaching him, teaching him all his skill stuff and improving his vertical. So, that was a treat and a half. This one was cool. We could talk about how we actually met him.

Starting point is 01:35:32 Hunter McIntyre. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that guy's a character. That guy belongs in some kind of entertainment. I mean, he's very, we met him the first time at the Tahoe podcast hard event. We had all of our podcasting friends there And there was the last day that we were there. We threw our big party for everybody great event and in walks in Hunter with he was like wearing a big American

Starting point is 01:35:59 Flag shirt with a cowboy hat with like American flag shirt with his sleeves cut off shirt with a cowboy hat with like American flag shirt with his sleeves cut off. Super loud, super boisterous, but not I thought at first when he walked in loud and boisterous, I'm like, I thought I was gonna like oh my god. Yeah, me too. I'm like we're gonna have to kick someone. That is gonna be this like aggressive guy like at the bar where you're just like dude this guy we gotta get rid of this thing. No, super cool guy. Super cool. Very entertaining, very very charismatic and a very very cool guy. So we're like you need to come on our show, dude. He's definitely needs to be a pro wrestler. Yeah, he definitely needs to be a pro wrestler.

Starting point is 01:36:30 Oh, dude. Yeah, I could totally see him, just like, because he, I love how he comes at people when he's competing, like how aggressively he, like, you know, talk shit to people and everything. So it's, he's just a fun guy to listen to. And, you know, if you're competitive at all, like it's totally contagious. Incredible charisma, you know, natural talker, great story, super badass.

Starting point is 01:36:57 Yeah, you know, he's done some badass stuff. Super badass, humble at it at the same time, but also confident at the same time. Humble with cocky as fuck. Yeah, it's a perfect fuck. It's perfect blend. It is, and it's rare that you meet people. There's, we have a mutual friend, Larry Evans, is like this good boy of ours.

Starting point is 01:37:13 I remember he used to come, he was a first guy ever that I knew that would wear a peak suit to work at the gym with his Calvin Klein shades and poppin' his collar when he walked in. But he had this such a likable personality that you couldn't help but love the guy the same time. Everybody loved him.

Starting point is 01:37:32 So over the top, it's lovable. Yeah, and not a day would go by that he didn't remind you that he's the best. But it didn't bother you. So because he backed up a lot of his shit, which hunters like this, right? A hundred of them like this. Dude, the fucking badass.

Starting point is 01:37:45 Absolute badass talks about it, but he does it in such a likable way that you can't help smiling and joy the guy about. That interview was such a treat. And then one that we just recently did too, right after that, we ran the Paul for Brits and then not long after that, we had Cory. Yeah, and that was through Justin,

Starting point is 01:38:04 that was your guy. Corey Slesinger, yeah, love that guy, man. I had a... He's the athletic basketball coach, Stanford. Stanford, right? Yep, yep, yep, for the men's basketball team. And I was fortunate, I got connected to him from Jordan Shallow.

Starting point is 01:38:18 And I remember talking to Jordan quite a bit about like different modalities out there and like who's really applying these concepts well. He had mentioned Corey and just how he was actually utilizing a lot of these concepts. We talk about quite a bit like FRC, animal flow, a lot of mobility practices, but also strength training, power, explosiveness. And he was just like, he's on a whole nother level.

Starting point is 01:38:47 He's got it all figured out in the way that he programs is just masterful. And I got to spend some time with him and had coffee with him and met and we just hit it off because again, one of those guys that really just kept affirming everything that I thought believed in. He's like, oh yeah, and then he would take it to a whole other level that I didn't even think of.

Starting point is 01:39:08 And just my mind was going crazy. And I got to go up to Stanford and see his facility meet a couple of his players and stuff and just his workout setup. And he's just, yeah, he's just a fascinating guy. He's the real deal. Yeah, I want more, I want more people like that on him and Paul great Well, to be honest, they're hard to find they really are like there's There's a there's a big you know like Justin said there's a there's a ton of you know sports performance people are people that are

Starting point is 01:39:36 presenting that information But there's not a lot of really good experts that are doing it and though they're hard to they're like hard to find like Justin Finds this guy like Corey's not this big famous dude on Instagram. Oh, I see. You're following him. I mean, in the NBA. Right. Yeah. So and remember, we talked to these guys, like, just because somebody's extremely high in the sports world, NBA or some of that doesn't necessarily mean they are the best coaches either. They both poke holes exactly. And a lot of the, a lot of the, you know, it's about who you know when you're at that level. So that's still kind of, and you guys know this, it's no different than, I remember being a kid,

Starting point is 01:40:08 at least I, I were a coach, a trainer going back and watching my siblings playing sports, and they were playing sports all the way from young, all the way through high school, and even some of them went on to travel, do like after college. And I remember coming back and seeing the trainers that were teaching stretching and teaching things like that. And I remember scratching my head and being like, what, these are, these they should know better than that. That's like basic, don't do that. No, you shouldn't do that. They should be, you know, and I remember thinking that. And then seeing this even at the much higher level. So it's still prevalent in the

Starting point is 01:40:41 NBA and NFL that just because they're elite getting paid a ton of money, not all of them are the best athletic trainers. And yeah, Corey's one of those diamonds in the NBA and NFL, that just because they're elite getting paid a ton of money, not all of them are the best athletic trainers. And Cory's one of those diamonds in the rough, you know, Paul Favritz is another one of those diamonds in the rough. Like there's just not a lot of these dudes that are like that, you know, they're hard to find. So that was a really cool one. And then the last interview that we just recently did, also probably cracks my top five because I was totally, I love being blindsided. I love only one other time if I've been blindsided this much and that was with Joe Desina.

Starting point is 01:41:17 And when I tell people now about this interview, I say he's the Joe Desena interview of the bodybuilding world. So even if you're not an obstacle course race runner, you have to listen to Joe Dacena's episode because it's just a great story listening to him talk and his story is awesome and the way he tells it's awesome. And I felt the same way about John Romano. Now I recognize the name. And when Sal reminded me, like, oh, this is a guy

Starting point is 01:41:49 who's row for T Nation. He wrote all the major articles and all the magazines used to read as a kid. I go, okay, that triggered that. I remember that. But I didn't really remember as much as Sal remembered. And Sal was very excited to bring him on the show. And he just was such a treat from John.

Starting point is 01:42:05 John threw me off, too, because it was John like Giovanni or like it wasn't John Romano. It's his real name. It's his real name. And so I was like, like, who is this? Wait, you know, and like we were sort of in that state of like, I had no idea what to expect. Yeah, no, I, he was first of all, he was impossible to find.

Starting point is 01:42:23 So I was going through a little stint of That's when we had flex wheeler on Sean rayon, you know all these so I said okay I want I want to find people who I think will be great interviews that I used to follow back in the in the 90s and early 2000s when I was you know when I was a kid working out and John Romano was he wrote articles he wrote for muscular development. He did some stuff with muscle meaty 2000. He was close with Dan Ducain and Bill Phillips

Starting point is 01:42:51 and that whole world. He had like a feud with Bill Phillips in terms of articles and stuff. And he was very no-holds barred. I mean, these were the first articles I had ever read where he talked, where someone talked very honestly about the drug use in body building building the dark sides of the sport How things really work and the way he wrote in his writing style. It's fun to read and so I thought oh, I want to find John Romano

Starting point is 01:43:12 Impossible to find him. I was all over socially so finally on Facebook and I'm like Let's see if I can I found his personal profile, which is of course not you know, I finally found that I'm like is this pretty John Romano sent him a message and you replied and I'm like, oh perfect, I'd love to have you on my show. And he agreed right away. And the show was just so entertaining. The guy's such a great storyteller, great dude, and a very candid, like good.

Starting point is 01:43:38 He did not skip a beat. Nope, like you mentioned something that's a little bit controversial, you know, sort of gray market area of what the conversation was going and he was just all in. Yep. He told you everything. Everything. Oh yeah. I mean, the guy wrote, he's probably one of the most prolific writers in bodybuilding up there with top three ever probably. And the guy wrote his first article in prison. That's not an episode. That's where we started. That's not an of cliffhanger for you.

Starting point is 01:44:06 We started in prison. And we started that episode. Yeah. I mean, that in itself, and then built himself a very successful business and had so many great stories, so many name drops in that episode. He knew everybody. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:44:19 Everybody in that whole world, which was really cool. So that was a treat, man. Yeah, yeah. I really enjoy that whole pro. You know, for a long time interviewing was, was one of the, it was more difficult, right? We would do our episodes with just us with a lot of fun, great conversation. The interview process was hard to include people into that chemistry, and it's starting to happen now, and it's funny as you go down this list and they become more and more recent, it's more and more episodes that are like that while we're having a lot

Starting point is 01:44:44 of fun. So I'm really looking forward to interviewing more amazing people for the years to come. Yeah, no, I agree. Well, we, I mean, we're very transparent on this podcast and one of the things that we kinda had to do to build it up and to keep it going was, when you do a podcast with another podcast,

Starting point is 01:45:03 there's the most carryover into the business, right? So if we just interview, for example, John Romano is not gonna make us any more money. Like, we don't really see a flux in the business when it brings back. He's not gonna introduce us to a bunch of people who've never heard us. Right, the guy has a very small social following,

Starting point is 01:45:21 he's not really big on podcasts, so the business is not gonna feel it financially is what I'm saying, right? Even though it creates a ton of value for the audience. And when we were first getting going, and especially last year and the year before, we had to collaborate with a minimum of like six to eight podcasts a month to keep filling the top of the funnel so we could make enough revenue to pay everybody and keep growing the business. And we've finally arrived in a place where we don't need to do that to keep going.

Starting point is 01:45:54 So it's now allowed us to really start seeking after like, who do we want to talk to? Like, I really want to talk to this person. I really want to talk to this person versus having to take into consideration like, hey, I want to this person, but do they have a big enough network that it's also going to do us both well. And so those things were factored in where they're no longer factored in anymore. Right. And I think that has a lot to do with it.

Starting point is 01:46:14 I think that has to do with it. I also think that has a lot of large parts to do with it. But I also think, I also think we're just, you know, we've been doing it more and more and the more you do something, the better you get at it and Having three people interview one person is a totally different It's a different school. It's something you have to it's something you learn through doing it. Yeah, and now that we've done a lot of them I think it's fun. It's working. Yeah, absolutely fun itself. So yeah, well, there's no way I could possibly get through Every single one that we did this year because this this episode would turn into like

Starting point is 01:46:47 People are gonna get pissed. Well, hey, you're Didn't we interview Ben Greenfield this year at paleo? Yes, one of my favorite interviews. Yeah, it was at that house Ben what a great interview that was that was awesome. That's when we really I feel like we really Connected with Ben and got the real like Ben all the way through. That's what I really, really, really like reached a new level with him on that podcast. Well, yeah, it was, that was actually up there with my top interviews we'd ever done.

Starting point is 01:47:15 We touched some serious third rails then. We asked some of his personal and spiritual beliefs and got into his family life. Got real personal with him on that podcast. And it was very comfortable. We were all sitting on the couch together and kind of hanging out. At every time.

Starting point is 01:47:30 Yeah, that was really good with Paul Check there too. Yeah, I think that was my favorite one within there. We had him again recently, but I think I liked even more the one we did in, I think you're right too, Justin, I think that. And I didn't bring that up just because we have podcasted with both those guys the year multiple times so they were I try to cover all the new I mean we we we saw a lot of people

Starting point is 01:47:50 this year that we'd also seen the year before but I wanted to make sure I went through all the like the first timers that we in our first impressions. Yeah this this next year is one of the is exciting for me it's one of the most exciting times That we've been doing this to look and see the kind of growth that we're experiencing it You know what were the direction we're moving the amount of people now that we're able to to touch and communicate to It's very exciting looking back at this last year now now. We're heading into the end of 2018 I would say this was the one of the most transformative years that we've experienced, of the four years that we've been just incredibly transformative.

Starting point is 01:48:30 And it's setting us up for what our purpose is, what I think, what do we think our purpose is, which is really change people's minds about fitness and health or to take this industry and move it in a direction where it can really become the answer to some of the health problems that we're seeing in modern societies. And this is the year that set it up. I believe that.

Starting point is 01:48:55 I think this year was the year of building the team and acquiring the tools. And I think that we've acquired the tools and I think we've built the tools. And I think that we've acquired the tools and I think we've built the team. And 2019 will be about applying that and will be about like our people. I think those things is what will drive 2019 and it'll be in a really... The scaffolding and the framework is there now.

Starting point is 01:49:21 I think that we've definitely done our due diligence in building all of those pieces. And I feel like it's just now, we're gonna get, it's gonna start getting even more fun from here. I think so too. It's also cool to just continue to, you know, for us in our relationship, we're really becoming,

Starting point is 01:49:40 you know, like brothers. And that happened pretty early on, but it just continues to solidify as we continue working together. And it's pretty cool, it's cool looking forward because I've never done anything where I'm even more excited as it continues to go along, which is very strange because I was so fucking excited

Starting point is 01:49:59 when it first started. And to see it go along and become more and more excited is pretty wild, it's a pretty wild feeling. Anyway, so look, if you want to check out some of the information that we like to give people for free that's very valuable, go to mindpumpfree.com. We have a bunch of free guides on there. One of the more popular ones recently is a guide for new personal trainers teaching them how to build their business. Prospecting is covered, how to get a certification or which ones to get is teaching them how to build their business, prospecting is covered,

Starting point is 01:50:26 how to get a certification, or which ones to get is covered, how to sell personal training is covered, how to schedule your pricing is covered. It's a free guide, but we have a lot of other guides on there as well. Just go check them out, mindpumpfree.com. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbumble includes maps on a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic.

Starting point is 01:50:59 Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout nutrients in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a 430-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is MindPump.

Starting point is 01:51:42 We thank you for your support and until next time this is Mindbomb.

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 925: The Best Mind Pump Interviews of 2018

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