Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 930: Jennifer Cohen Knows How to Get What She Wants

Episode Date: December 24, 2018

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Jennifer Cohen, a bestselling author and first rate go getter. An excellent storyteller, Jennifer tells how she got Keanu Reeves to come to her house (really!), work for an NBA team, train celebrities and essentially accomplish everything she has set her mind to. Follow her lead and watch good things happen! Jen the Firecracker! (3:19) How did she get into the fitness space? Her origin story into how fitness became a lifestyle. (4:34) What did she do to attract these prestigious companies wanting her services? (8:00) The evolution of her tenacity. How she got Keanu Reeves on her audition tape. (10:07) How you can mold certain traits into opportunities. Her stint in the music industry. (22:58) Her transition into the corporate fitness space. (30:13) What is her favorite and least favorite celebrity she has trained? (34:18) The more money you have, the less you pay for things. (39:10) From getting burnt out being a Celebrity Trainer to pivoting into a Media Trainer. (44:45) The important lesson of sharing the RIGHT information and thinking long term rather than short term success. (53:54) How small wins equals big change. Was her first book, ‘No Gym Required’, a success? (1:06:19) The message behind ‘Strong is the New Skinny’. (1:08:43) The myth behind having a perfect body and looking at fitness as a way of loving yourself. (1:11:15) How does she manage her kids to eat healthy? (1:20:08) What will her upcoming podcast will be called and be about? (1:25:30) Has she run into Keanu Reeves since? (1:33:25) Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Jen Cohen -Performance Coach (@therealjencohen)  Instagram Website Britney Spears (@britneyspears)  Instagram Christina Aguilera (@xtina)  Instagram Andrew D. Gilman - CommCore Consulting Group Ben Greenfield (@bengreenfieldfitness)  Instagram Products Mentioned: December Promotion: Enroll in Any MAPS Program – 1 Year of Forum Access for FREE! Mind Pump Free Resources MAPS Starter Promotion Rate Ends at MIDNIGHT TONIGHT! - $20 off  **Code “STARTER20”** BMG: The New Music Company Immortal Records Shop Sexy Bras, Panties, Lingerie & Bodysuits | La Senza No Gym Required: Unleash Your Inner Rockstar - Book by Jennifer Cohen and Suzanne Boyd Strong Is the New Skinny: How to Eat, Live, and Move to Maximize Your Power - Book by Jennifer Cohen and Stacey Colino Habit Nest Badass Body Goals by Jennifer Cohen Booty-Building & Waist Trimming Journal. 10-Week Workout Program. Your Ultimate Fitness Planner Eating To Break 100: Longevity Diet Tips From The Blue Zones The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel Kion  **Code “mindpump10” for 10 % off** HOT5 - Quick Mobile Workouts. Anywhere!

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. Boy, am I happy we had Jennifer on the show? Yeah, this was actually really interesting because she is a super fast talker. She's a firecracker full of energy. We almost let her get away with this whole podcast in it up turning into, which she almost glazed right over some of the most interesting stories ever.

Right. And I'm so glad that I stopped her and made her go back because it turned into an extremely interesting podcast. She's got such a great story about how she landed into fitness because that wasn't even her background. And the girl's been really successful, very successful, has a great attitude, and it's just been, it was such an absolute pleasure just to meet. Now, she's a fitness author,

and we talked a little bit about fitness, but we really talked about, I guess, just how to build a business, the attitude and motivation behind it. author and we talked a little bit about fitness, but we really talked about, I guess, just how to build a business, the attitude and motivation behind it. Her stories were excellent. She's a great storyteller. Some of them are unbelievable except that we have, we know people in common, so we know she's not lying.

She's not lying. She's about you, yeah. So, awesome girl. Like, she's one of those few people you meet and right away you like her. Yeah, it just goes to show how far you can get with hard work and tenacity, which is really the whole message of this podcast that you kept driving in was just how tenacious she was. Yeah, you'll like this episode.

It's a lot of fun. Now, if you want to check her out, her name is Jennifer Cohen. You can check her out on Instagram at the real Jen Cohen Cohen spelled C-O-H-E-N. Her website is Jennifer Cohen.com. She wrote a book called Badass Body Goals. She also wrote a book, an older book called, I think, Strong is the new skinny. And she has a new podcast coming soon.

We don't know what the name is yet. We think she might be, we're supposed to decide somehow for her. We think the name might be, might be inspiration, but she might change it, not quite sure. But I think it'll pull going for that. Yeah, I think she'll do really good. Before we get an interview though,

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and that's it. Here we are talking to Jen Cohen. I forgot how much energy you have, Jennifer. I remember when we got on the phone, yeah, and we were back and forth, and you're like, I forgot to tell you, I'm 8-E-D, I have so much energy. Oh, did I say every way? Dissin you did say that you do have it. I would have thought you spark I would have thought she's 25 except for the Cindy Crawford reference

I'm for sure coming back now Well, first of all I think you guys have to probably just as much and I'm we doing this already. Oh, that's okay I would imagine you have just as much energy though, because doesn't I feel like when you work out and obviously all of us work out, it gives you actually more energy versus less energy, which people think. You looked at it in a certain way. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know what though? I think you probably always had a lot of energy and the exercise just made it turbo. Well, I think the exercise helped focus and rein me in a little bit more. But yeah, but I always did. I always actually had a lot of energy. Like I'm not able to ever just sit still, ever. Like even now I'm gonna be fidgeting

just because it's like an uncomfortable thing for me. I don't know how to properly relax, which is kind of a problem. And it's a blessing and a curse. I guess you can get a lot done. You can be extra productive, but sometimes it's good to kind of turn it off and chill. Now, how did you get into the fitness space?

How did that all start for you? And then tell us a little bit about your journey through the fitness, I guess, if industry of fitness. Okay, well, I guess that's a two-prog answer. Like the, I'm gonna say that because what you just said, the ADD for sure was something where I needed to exert a lot of energy or release a lot of energy.

So I look to athletics or fitness as that way. But really, if I'm being honest, the other side to that was, I come from a Jewish band, I'm Jewish, and like our whole social environment was always based around food. So in order to counterbalance the amount, the amount of calories and food I would like intake on a regular basis, I looked to fitness as a way to counterbalance it, basically. Now, were you like, did I start working out because I was a really skinny kid? Were you chubby?

Is that what you started? I wouldn't say I was chubby, but I was more, I was predisposed. I wasn't chubby ever. I'm not going to say I was, but I wasn't, I was zoptic, you know what I mean? Like I think that I have to be extra cognizant of what I eat because I have the tendency to, it's like that five seven pound thing You know five pounds less can I can look extremely different with being five pounds less And I can look frumpy five or seven pounds heavier to being super super fit fit and athletic looking, 5 pounds leaner. Okay. So how old were you then when you started in the working out?

You must have been pretty young then. I was always athletic, but I really started taking fitness seriously, probably when I was around 17, 18. And then it just kind of became like my way of life. It became my lifestyle where it became so habitual, if I didn't do it, it was uncomfortable. Did you know right away like this is, I love this, this is what I wanna do for a living?

No, absolutely not, not at all. Fitness was not something that I was ever gonna think of as an actual career, that was just not even part of the, it was not even in my brain. I was conditioned as a kid, my education was extremely important to my family. Everyone in my family or doctors, lawyers, accountants, very typical in the, in the, in the, where for the Jewish, in people who are Jewish like me. And then, because education, education.

So I did that, that route. I went to school. I went to get an MBA. I was actually working as the 19, I fast tracked and I got my first job at the Toronto Raptors, which was like the franchise Canadian team and I was very young, I was the youngest person in the working for them. That was pre-business school and I did very well that after when my first year of working there, I went back to school.

A year and a half, I decided to go back to school to get my business degree. They held the job for me. So in my brain, my trajectory was going to be working, but on the business executive side in the sports world, never as someone who's going to be doing what I'm doing now. Cut to after that, after school, I got poached by BMG Music, which was a record label, to come work for them in the marketing team. So I actually did not go back to the sports world and I pivoted into the music space. Again, completely not what I'm doing. Well, these are prestigious companies that you're talking about.

How did that happen? I mean, what are you obviously you're doing something right? What are you doing to get the attention of like the Toronto Raptors and a company like BMG? What's going on? I was always to your point, Sal. I think part of where my energy was channeled because I always had a lot of energy. I was very tenacious and very determined. and I would use that energy. I basically hone that energy for good, in a sense, where I really, if I wanted something, or if I was really, I was very, very determined to kind of have a goal and work to achieve it. So I figured at that time, why would I settle for the middle? I might as well try to go for the highest.

And I like to win, just as my personality, right? So I did well. And so I think when you work hard, I think it's, you do get recognized. Work ethic does get recognized. And that's, I always had a very strong work ethic. So when I got the job at BMG, same thing kind of happened. I was working for a record label.

I was, you'll appreciate this reference considering our ages, but it was like Britney Spears hit baby hit me one more time. You have no idea. I don't, no. Adam's actually a super fan. Oh, you are? He's got posters there, man. OK, not a super fan. Oh, you are? He's got posters there, man.

Not even exaggerating. Okay, well then you'll appreciate that, because I helped launch that album. Wow. And then that was the Christian Aguilera, a Genie in a Bottle, I'm sure, like it was like that. I won degree separation, was just 10 years late.

Yeah, where were you? Yeah, I mean, it's better late than never this day, right? So you never know, I may be able to hook you up to. So that was basically my whole trajectory was all now in the music space, not until I got a job offer in LA with Sony music. That's how I left, oh, by the way, I don't know if you guys, I should have mentioned that.

I wanna, wait, wait, wait, I me back up your ADD for a second. Yeah. I want because you're just. Back to Britney. Back to Britney. Yeah, yeah. You're going to go back. You're flying over things that are really interesting to me.

For example, you get poached from the Raptors already a prestigious badass job to be involved in. What's that phone call or poaching process like? Someone just, I mean, what did mean, how'd that go down? Hi, this is the Raptors. Yeah. So this is what I, if you wanna go back that far, I didn't realize, I was trying to kind of give you

the concise version. Well, I would have, I appreciate the concise when people have boring stories, but that's an interesting story to me. The Raptors are big, I'm a big basketball fan. That's a big deal. I'm also a music guy, so that's a big deal to me. Okay, so then you'll appreciate this.

So Isaiah Tom is hired me. So why is it at the time? Oh my God, you weren't gonna mention that? Yeah, I was just literally like, he's right over that, right? There's a lot of other story I should make. Oh, I know my heroes. I should actually give, I should really back up then.

I think this will really kind of you'll appreciate this. Good match of Johnson came in. Yeah, I'm like a Jordan's over here. Yeah, well let me back it up. Okay, so I'm Canadian. I think this will kind of, I'm from a small town called Winnipeg, Manitoba.

Okay, so let me just kind of give you, like I'm gonna give you the evolution of all of this, not this all of this tenacity, right? Besides just having an extreme amount of energy. So when I was living in Winnipeg and I was still young, I had a dream of like being a much music VJ. So, you know, as I've ever watched MTV? Yeah, I remember like those VJs that were on MTV.

Yeah. So we had this thing. Yeah, like in Carson daily. So in Canada, where I'm from, we had this equivalent called much music, which was the exact same thing. Okay. So I was a young girl and I really wanted, like, you know, I was like, oh, I really want

to be a VJ. So I thought, I'm going to send in a like demo tape to much music and see if I can get the job. But I didn't think, okay, I'm not going to just going to send in a demo tape like every other person. I have to make it unique and special, because that way it will get looked at, right? So, at the time, Kiana Reeves was in Winnipeg,

because he was performing Hamlet. Now, check it out, can you understand this? It was right after speed. Remember the movie speed? Kiana Reeves. It's a performance. Okay, yeah. But this is why he was performing it.

Let me tell you why. Just though. Yeah, well, I'll tell you, first of all, I have a special place in my heart for him because what he did for me. So I cannot let anyone stop him. He's awesome. I'm a huge fan.

In a line now, I'm relying him in my presence. Oh, no, he's awesome. So it was right after speed. And speed was a massive hit. Sure. It basically catapulted him to sexiest man alive. And he was always a very serious actor. He thought of himself as a serious actor.

I know, just bear with me at the story. So because he was never really motivated by money, he was always motivated by like the art and kind of, kind of that stuff, he thought, I'm gonna do this stint in Winnipeg and do Hamlet. So you can imagine the media frenzy when Kiana Reeves comes to a small town like Winnipeg, and at the time, like hard coffee,

curtain affair, remember all these things. They're all there like following his every move, this crowd crazy and in my brain, I'm like, you know what, I'm going to get Keanu Reeves to be on my demo tape. And I said this to my friends and to my mom and my dad. And they're like, oh God, okay, yeah, okay, good luck. And one night he was performing.

I and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go stand outside the door where he leaves the building. And I'm gonna go and let this kind of like, you know, and I'm gonna go ask him if he wanted to, like this is kind of one of those ignorant type of youthful, you know, dreams that you have, right? I'm gonna go stand and wait for him and ask him to be in my demo type.

And everyone laughed at me and thought I was crazy, blah, blah, blah. Well, cut to one in one night when he was performing at 10 o'clock in the evening when he was finished. I went to the back door where he was performing in the theater and there was literally like, droves of people, like all the media, crazy people. And I was waiting and waiting.

And I took a girlfriend with me actually. And she got super annoyed. She's like, I'm not doing this anymore. He's not gonna come. This is ridiculous. I'm leaving. So she left me by myself. 15 minutes later, he walks out the door

with all these people around. And I literally like scurried through the crowds of people, literally like scurring through, like pushing people like to either way. And I poked him on his jacket or tugged his jacket. And he says to me, yeah, if you want an autograph, you're gonna have to wait. And I'm like, autograph, no, I don't want your autograph.

I actually have a project that I need your help with. I'm trying to be a VJ for much music, and I need your help. And he's like, huh? And everyone's tugging at him. He's like, I don't even know what you're talking about. I'm like, well, the autograph's not gonna do me any good. I need you to actually physically help me.

And he was so perplexed, because I was very serious. I was like, looking him dead in the eye. I wasn't letting anybody get around. And I was very, very, very determined. And determined and he's like well give me your phone number and I'll call you and I was like I'm like are you really gonna call me or you're just gonna say that and then you're gonna like really let someone down Who's like a teenager? He's like we'll just give me your phone number. So I was like all right So I asked some girl for some pen and paper and she gave me like a gum wrapper. And I didn't have a pen, but some girl had like

a miske... Like one of those eyeliners. So I wrote my eyeliner, like in an eyeliner, my phone number, and like on a, like an old gum wrapper and I gave it to him. And I'm like, are you really gonna call me? He's like, yes, I'll call you, I'll call you. But look, there's too many people.

I can't deal with this right now. So I'm like, all right, so I go home, I tell my family, I tell my friends, they're all like, my God, as if he's gonna call. I go to school the next day and they're all my friends are like, they're told other people than people are like teasing me. Oh yeah, yeah, the Kianukall, yeah. You know, like such a loser, you really think he's gonna call and I'm like, I don't know, maybe.

And I was like, day two comes by, and still, I go to Kiyana-Kaul, haha. And I was like, no, I guess he didn't call, but you never know. And I go home that second day. And my mom's like, did you check your answering machine? Cause at the time, you have answering machine. Oh, yeah.

I'll, no. I don't believe that away. I'm, I, I press play on my answer machine and I hear, hello, hello, hello. And I hear this guy being like, hello, and then I hear my mother. You know, when someone answers the phone at the end, like, you know, and the machine picks it up,

I hear, hello, is Jennifer there? And basically, it was him. He was like, my mom's like, who's this? Who's calling? Like so agitated. And he's like, my name is Keanu. And I'm calling for your, for, you know, maybe your daughter or,

and she's like, who's this? Who's calling? And like it was on my, I still have the answer. She's like this. How do you do? Yes. Oh, it's epic. And my mom was like, well, she's at school, you know,

leave a message and she clings. She hangs up and she's like, call back. And then like, you hear a click and you hear him being, hello, hello. So we hang up the phone, he calls back again. And he's like, hi, Jennifer, this is Kiyanu. We met the other night and Sori has taken me a little bit to call you back.

But I was like, for reaking, okay? So then I like, obviously call him back. He gave me his phone number and I, we arranged for him to come over to my house. I was gonna pick him up in my mother's cut list of pre and he's gonna come over to my house and I'm gonna make a demo tape. I asked him.

I said, you know, I was very, very serious. I was gonna make a demo tape with him on it and I was gonna send it into my music. So what he did was, and this is why you cannot make fun of him. He postponed, because he was leaving town to go shoot a movie. He postponed the shoot by 24 hours to come over to my house and help me. So I had like-

Dude, I like this guy even more. So he had three friends, so amateur, like in different corners of my living room with like, you know, little cameras, And I was going to edit it myself together. And literally, like, I went to pick up Kianu in my mom's cutlass supreme at the hotel he was staying at, drove him back to my house. Okay, like my mother gave him cookies and coffee and blah, blah, and just like how we're sitting here, I sat with him

and I literally interviewed him. Like, so looking back at it and I have the videos, it was so ridiculous. But why I'm telling you the story and it's probably super long and you're gonna edit it because it's like, you know, we won't, we won't. No, not at all, not at all. Exactly, yeah.

Is that that moment, it taught me that you can, you never know what can happen unless you try number one. And that determination and tenacity are truly the most important things for success in life. Because what that did was, a, because of my determination and my determination and my not caring what the outcome is. I'm like, you know, the worst that can happen is this guy says no, right? What's the word?

Meanwhile, what happened when he said yes. So what that also gave me was the self-confidence in myself, to believe in myself, to always push through, and always get go after something. So as amateur as that video was, and the story was so crazy, right? Like every magazine, and everyone was calling me after because they couldn't believe this mega star from Hollywood came to some little girl's house

in Winnipeg, right? It was just like, with my mom, it was completely platonic, right? Just like to really help me out. And my mom said to him on the camera, right, on the VHS tape, like, why are you here? Like, why are you helping my daughter, you know VHS tape, like, why are you here? Like, why are you helping my daughter, you know?

And he's like, because there was a fire in her eyes that was so strong that you can't say no. So I feel like when you have that fire, like, that you will be successful. You just have to, you have to persevere and you have to go for it. So because of that, I believe in myself enough to move to Toronto, which again,

was a big step for a little girl from Winnipeg and go after the top, because at the end of the day, what's the worst that can happen? I strive for the top, I end up where, right? Maybe a little bit less, but you never know. But with that tape, I sent in that tape, and I almost got the job.

I became runner up between me and this other girl and the other girl and I'm getting it. But I would never have gotten that close. And it was literally because the first thing they say when they called me was like, how the hell did you get cancer each? Don't you live in Winnipeg? You know what I mean? I'm like, I sure do. But if I can get Kianu, you can imagine, like, all the other interviews, she is a closer, I'm really, I am a closer. And so, I did not thought, okay, I'm not doing, I'm not gonna do this, so what am I gonna do?

I'm gonna get a job and blah, blah, blah, that's a finished college, whatever. And then, I thought the NBA, there's gonna be a new franchise. I wanna work for the best, and I also wanna like, I wanna like do that. So I finagled my way through meeting this one, networking, everyone's a conduit to someone else. And then I ended up meeting the owners of the Raptors

through a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend. And he was like, wow, this girl, he's like, wow, he's like, this girl's pretty tenacious. And he led me into like Isaiah. He's like, you should talk to Isaiah because he's gonna wanna okay, you know, this whole or whatever. And I met with Isaiah and he hired me on the spot.

He's like, if you can get this far and it wasn't family connections or it wasn't anything like that, it was just my own pure tenacity. And you know, he hired me on the spot and I got the job. That's such an amazing thing. I'm so glad I made you.

I know, you're just gonna just fast forward you way through that. I know, I didn't know how much I, I didn't know really what you wanted me to focus on. So I mean, I would like, I mean, I'm an MBA fan, so right away when you say an MBA team, my ears perk up right away. So that's already curious. And then I'm also a music person.

So for you to get into BMG. So I got, there's got to be more to that story. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I got you down. Yeah. Well, yeah. So like I said, I was just giving you the Canna Reeves background because it really was my,

it really was like my launch pad for, for the self confidenceconfidence, for the... What a great lesson. Recognition that anything's possible, if you just go after and persevere and have tenacity. Now from there, you went from there to music. Right, so then I went back, so I left it, what I was at the Raptors,

I left eventually to go back to business school. And then while I was in business school, what happens is you do internships, right? So I had an internship at some IMG, which was, you know, it's a management company. Now it's much bigger than it was always big, but they've bought a bunch of other media groups. But I actually had a job offer from them. And I guess what happens is, once you're doing that circuit of like internships, you meet other people, I ended up meeting somebody

who was working for BMG. And they basically called me in one day and said, this is not sports, They basically called me in one day and said, this is not sports, it's music, but we'd love to have you if you're interested. And in my belief is certain traits, they transfer, right? Like you can pivot. If you have certain tactical traits, you can pivot that into different industries, right? It's really about having the certain,

developing those traits or having those traits. Like if you're a good salesperson, which I think I'm okay, I can, you can sell a widget just as well as you can sell a house if you have the, the, the capacity for that ability, right? I agree. So yeah, and that's basically what I did. I just basically like I pivoted from knowing sports and I by the way I didn't know that much but that either but you know you you learn you be if you want something bad enough you make it happen So I you you you study a lot you educate yourself you talk to people who are in the know and you like Knowledge is power. I just got as much knowledge as possible and just

ricochet into the next area and I loved it and I I tell you like, knowledge is power. I just got as much knowledge as possible and just ricochet into the next area. And I loved it. And I tell you like, if it wasn't for the fitness stuff, I would actually still be doing it if it wasn't so different now. The labels, how the music world works, it's very, very different obviously than it was back then, right?

Like with iTunes now. And you know, like at the time like, it was a different world. Were you, was that where you got out of it? Yeah, and at the time, it was a different world. Were you, was that where you got out of it? Yeah, I was just saying, were you a part of the... So what happened was, I was doing a lot of marketing for these labels. So my job really, at the time, was basically,

I was a liaison between a tower records, HMV, all those big, conglomerates, and the talent. And my job was really to kind of create programs and initiatives to help support the album dropping, right? So that was really like my area. And I was doing that and I kind of worked up the chains of that. And then I got a couple different job offers to move to LA. So one of them, the one I took actually was,

did you guys know immortal records? So you have these big record labels, right? And they're all mostly like distributors. Like BMG is like a distribution company that has a lot of other subsidiaries underneath them. So with me, with I was at BMG, there was RCA, there underneath them, there's RCA, Rista. In your scope, or?

In your scope is a different label. Yeah. So under BMG, you them, there's RCA, Arista. In your scope, or? In your scope's a different label. Yeah, so under BMG, you have, like I said, you have RCA, Arista, Jive. And at the time, it was so massive, you had every top, you had ushered a Brittany to Christian Aguilara, to the Matthews, to Whitney Houston. I mean, like, because everyone's on a subsidiary,

and then you have BMG who distributes all your ship, basically. So, yeah, so basically, then I moved to Sony, and then with Sony, they had one of their labels that they had a relationship with, was called Immortal. And that's some mortal records, which at the time, they had like, it was hardcore music, which is not my area. But again, you can just pivot,

was slipknot, incubus. Oh, right. You know, like, it's a whole different thing. Yeah. And good stuff. And yeah, you're well, depending on who you ask. But yeah.

And I dig it. Yeah, I mean, listen, to some of the things I really like too. And so I moved out to LA LA and that was my new job. And it was like different, that was a whole different world altogether. And the only reason why I left was I got a promotion to oversee how it was working.

That's when they had this technology where now they're going to promote things online and I didn't understand all of it. And it was like a proprietary technology and they were gonna like use it to market their bands and it was like when Napster was happening and all sorts, I'm like, this is not my jam. So I'm gonna quit, so I quit the job.

And now this is what happened was they were sponsoring me. So when you get sponsor on Canadian, so you could only work for the company that sponsors you. And if you can, then you're kind of like screwed. So you had nothing lined up. Nothing. Like nothing, but I had the, I knew me. I believed in me and I knew that I would figure it out eventually.

You had a pretty good network at that point. I had a good, I didn't really have anyone in LA though. I was only in LA for maybe eight months, seven months, not even maybe. And it was changing so quickly, it was changing so quickly that when I quit, I was like, shit, now I have no order. They're my sponsor, like how do I,

you can't just like start working. So that's when I was like, you know what I'm gonna do to, they're in my sponsor. Like how do you can't just like start working. So that's when I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to become a trainer. So that's when I'm like, I'll become a personal trainer. And I'll, and once I get, once I get my first certification, I'll get a couple of clients on the side. And then I'll figure it out. Like I'll see what my network, it's going to lead me. Now, hold on a second, because moving from what you were doing in music, which I'm assuming it's a hype, it's a high position, making a lot of money.

That was making a lot of, yep. I'm gonna leave, and I'm just gonna go get into fitness. It sounds like you were burnt out with that whole space. I was burnt, well, it wasn't that it was burnt out. I just didn't like it. I didn't like where it was. It wasn't so much about developing people's,

as much as it was now like a technology thing, right? Like marketing and online and it was a whole different space that I had zero interest in. Like it was just something I, and I figured you know what? Like I was making a lot of money. I had an office in Sanamon. We had like a crazy office in Sanamonica, like overlooking the ocean.

I can just ride my bike to work and my back. But I was very young still. So I was always, I did all these fast tracks, but at the same time, I was like, I felt like, I felt confident that I was figuring it out. Like, I figured if I don't do it now, then when? Because it was changing. Like, the writing was on the wall because of all the other elements, like the naps, there's no, it wasn't the same business. The budgets were really getting cut back. It was a different world.

Everything was moving to online. And labels didn't have the same type of cash. They were losing the cash at that point a little bit. People were doing much more. It was like my space and all that stuff. So I'm like, okay, so I literally just quit. I got my first, you know, my first certification. And I'm like, what am I going to do now?

No, I was just in Canada. Do you have to go back? No, no, no, I was staying in LA. Okay. But I had no, the reason why I had to, I became a trainer was because there was no other way for me to make money because I wasn't, I didn't have a visa. So it would be like basically someone paying me like, you know, cash if I got, you know, when I had a client or something. So basically, but I, so what I did was I got my certification. I had one client or two, I think my boyfriend at the time, like, I think his mother like gave me some, because she felt bad for me.

She's like, you can train my husband. My new husband. So I was like, trading her husband or something like that. And then I'm like, this is, this is kind of not really, this is not really economically feasible for me. So I'm like, one thing I know is record labels. And I know how marketing budgets work, even though there are much leaner, than they, you know, they were maybe two or three years ago. I still know how to like finagle around that marketing budget. So then I went to my first, I went to the head of MCA Universal where I had a like finagle around that marketing budget. So then I went to my first, I went to the head of MCA Universal where I had a relationship with them.

And I basically like created a job for myself on his label, but now not as a marketing person for the label, but now as a label trainer. So I basically came back to the music world, but I came back as a personal trainer, not as a marketing person. So now I had a background in like, I had my certification.

And I naturally, like I said, naturally was always very active and I was always fit and I was always very interested in that stuff. So it came more, I was like, I was educated on it also. And when you have a passion for something, I think you always are better at doing the job versus like just doing it for the money. So now I had a passion for it.

I had my certification. I already knew how the music world kind of worked, and I know how to deal with the talent and did it. So I basically created a position for myself where then now I'm training young talent when they're signing them on for when they're doing a music video or when they're going on tour.

And that's how I started my, that's to answer your very long window way of answering your question. So that's how I ended up in the fitness space was I literally left one industry, went to get to get to get some education with fitness and then went back into the music world. And then I started as a label trainer. And that one client, he gave me mushroomed into a whole other laundry list of other clients and then you do

well with one label I got another contract with InnerScope and DefJem. Were you the first to do this in music space? Yeah, create sort of like this fitness corporate fitness environment. I mean I can't speak on that but I will say that at the time that I didn't know anyone else who was doing it and all this, you know, what was funnily enough, so what I'm only one person, so then I had to hire with all these labels I had working, I would work with and all these, you know, pop stars and talent. I was only one person, so I had to sell higher trainers underneath me to work for me. Then I would outsource a bunch of trainers to work for me. Then I'd go on tour and do all these things.

That's how the whole celebrity trainer thing would happen was, I was never a sickle fan or a star fucker. I don't really care if your famous or not. Maybe that's how it worked a little bit for me because I was always, sickle fan or a star fucker. I don't really care if your famers are not. And maybe that's kind of how it worked a little bit for me because I didn't, I was always, but if the person's a good person, the nice person, I'll work with them. I didn't really care who you were,

but a lot of the people I worked with initially started off like that. And then they got a taste for fame because they're now riding the co-tales of someone who's famous. And then they used that to kind of build their own brand or their own company and they became like a celebrity trainer. And then, oh, everyone, if you train this person,

you're a celebrity trainer, or you train that one, you're a celebrity, which is nonsense if you ask me. But anyway, so I had a, that was a tangent. But yes. Anybody that we know that you trained? I train a lot of people Yeah, I'm sure Yeah, how about how about your I'm sure you had a ton right if she did let record labels of that

Especially those record labels. I'm sure you've had a ton of famous people. How about your least favorite and your favorite that you've trained? Gosh, that's a good one. My favorite, I didn't like Kristi and Aguilera. Oh, you didn't like her. No, I shouldn't even say that. Why not? Fuck it. Too much of a deal. I don't like her personality.

I just think that she's affected. I don't think that she's affected and titled. And I think those are really terrible qualities and anybody. I would think that she's, I just think she's affected and titled. And I don't, I think those are really terrible qualities and anybody. I would think that's kind of common in like the, the artist type of world. I mean, normally what happens, at least in my small experience of famous people and artists and athletes is,

you tend to lack in other, other aspects of life. You're hyper focused in this one area, you're super talented. And so then your dysfunctional is fucking. You are just focused in this one area. You're super talented. And so then you're dysfunctional. It's fucking the other side. You are just, I think that's something more different. I think what happened is when you're super, when you're highly, when you're, when you're very good in one area,

you definitely, the lot of time you lack in the other. Like these people, especially like, when you're super, super like academic and smart, usually your social graces and you're a little bit socially off or, you know, that, when I feel what happens with that, I feel when you get famous too young and everyone's giving you everything

and you become emotionally stunted because you don't have time to grow and like figure things out yourself. Everyone's doing everything for you. But you could still be a nice person but just be a little bit fucked in that space. There's a difference between that. I'm gonna sneak.

Excuse me, am I allowed to sneak? Yeah, you're like, you guys hold it in. No, no, no. Put that right back in. You can sneak, you can swear, you can go wherever you are. Oh, okay. I find a lot of these people,

a, their handlers are much worse. When people, like hanging around, their are always a lot worse. And people are just looking for, I think celebrities and everybody are all just looking for the same thing, which is to connect to people and to get to be understood and related. And I think a lot of times what happens

when you're more famous you are, people act weird around you. So therefore you act weird around, and it's an uncomfortable back and forth awkwardness, right? Because at the end of the day, we're all human and we just like I said, I wanna disconnect and be treated a certain way. But coupled with the fact that when you're young

and you get famous, everyone just does everything for you and gives you everything, you will like have a screwed up way of looking at the world because your true experience is completely altered by just that. And then you couple onto that, people who treat you differently, everyone wants to meet from you, acts weird around you, feel like all of that makes you crazy and makes you different and makes you strange. But you know, that doesn't mean that they're bad people. And then there are people who are just like bitter,

entitled, and nothing's ever enough. I mean, it just is what it is. And she came off that way. I just didn't, I mean, listen, now who knows who's listening to this podcast? I'm gonna get like, probably her, she's a big fan of mine. You never know, you know what happened?

What if her trainer's listening or like, where's a very good shit? You never know. You never know. You got your back though. I've always loved Brittany though. I think that she's a very sweet person. Really?

And she's always like, I think that like. I knew I had that. I knew I felt it. I just know I'm so happy. I think just because, that's a good example of someone who's emotionally maybe stunted because of that. And maybe not like all, you know, who maybe not mentally kind

of like not equipped for the fame, but her her her hard I feel is a good. She's got a good heart. I think she's misunderstood. I've been trying to help. I must say she's misunderstood. I'm just saying if you don't if you look at her Manorism and behavior or even today in today's day you could tell that she's like she has she has like an awkwardness, right? And she seems like she's she seems like the same 15 year old girl that she was when she was 15 So she's your favorite I like her. I mean, I you, a lot of my favorites actually were girls who

or got, oh actually girls who had a trajectory that was supposed to skyrocket and who were super talented, beautiful, had like, who had the star power, the stage presence to be like massive. And then in this business, a lot of those people go a note there, something happens, they get dropped from the label, their album gets stalled, so many things on the back end of the business and happen where you don't even know who they are. They never even get a chance to make it. And a couple of the people that I really like the most who had that, you just don't know who they are, or not to the same level as these other people. When you were training the celebrities,

are you on a particular type of schedule? Do you have to meet them, or is it just you and them training together? Well, depend. Back then, I never liked to be an hourly trainer because then you're capped how much money you make, right? So I was always very business. I think I always had like a business,

savviness, I think, to myself, right? It was why I went to school for it, but I never. But I always think, okay, why would I cap myself at an hourly rate, right? When I can like make a retainer. And make a monthly, so if you show up or you don't show up, I'm still making the money. Because a lot of times with trainers and I'm a trainer,

so I know my financial independence would depend on someone else's wobbly schedule and like, you know, or want or not want to work out. So instead of like putting that pressure on myself, you know, at the time, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna have a cap. So I'm gonna be, I'm gonna charge a retainer if they, and give them an X amount of training sessions.

If they show up, great. And if they don't, let's find two, then I'm not gonna be out because of their inability to show up. I figured that out too. At some point, I was starting to charge people per month, but you get a certain amount that we agree upon ahead of time. So like, you're not making it is, that's you. Like, you're not showing up and my service is there and it's available to you. And that way, it just makes everybody more professional about it and wanting to be there.

100%. I think that's, that's, I mean, because also what you're doing is you're giving other people the accountability where they need it. Like, you're paying for this, so be accountable to it. So I think a lot of times when you take that, you give them that pain, quote unquote, more times than not, they'll show up because they're paying for it. But it's different when an individual pays for something versus a company or a label, right? Because when it's your own money, you feel it way more, right?

Then versus like a company because you feel it's a company. But a lot of times in that respect, when it was dealing with labels or what have you, the labels pay for it. They weren't paying at the time, the labels paid for that, depending. It's interesting, I find that like, the more money you have, the more success you have, the less you pay for, right? And the people you just, we literally just talked about this yesterday.

It's crazy. It's completely counter, I mean, it's unbelievable. Like the people who need it the most in life, like you have to pay for everything, get nickel and dime for everything, and the people who need it the least, get everything free. You should see some of these people's places where I've been. This room times 10, just on like swag and shit sense of them. And it doesn't even get opened because you don't even have enough people working for you to give it away to.

Like it's absolutely, it was always such a, you know, I always, it always bothered me that like people who like it doesn't make any sense. Well, I've heard it explained in a particular way that that makes sense to me. And so it's kind of like this. Like if you, if you venture out and take a risk and try and start a business. And you try to get alone from people. And say, I'd like some money because I want to start this business and maybe nobody wants to give you money, except for maybe your parents, your parents are like,

okay, we know you, we'll give you some money. We know you. Yeah, we'll give you some money. So they give you some money, you start the business and then it succeeds. Now you go out to get more money and you can show up and people see like, oh, you succeeded, we'll give you more money.

And the more you succeed, the more people trust you to give you things, the more your view to somebody who is successful. And the opposite is true. When you go down the hill and you start to fuck up, people jump ship very, very quickly. Once you start to show people, that's what it is.

Like, when you're successful, part of it is people think that there's something in it for them as well. But when you're successful, more people are willing to give you more, and when you're not successful in doing very poorly, less people are willing to. It's true though, it's funny that it works that way. It does. I mean, when I find interesting though, because people are attracted to success overall, but you're trying to say, right? Like, people want to be around winners, right? It makes them feel like they're successful. It people wanna be around rich people,

people wanna be around, because it's like, or celebrities, or famous people, because there's like a notion, or a psychological thing in your brain that you think, if I'm around it, that means I'm that person, right? Which is kind of like, I don't know, silly in a way, right? Because then you're not on your own merit,

you're just on someone, you're basically riding the co-tails of someone else. But I always found that very fast, and you're right. I also found though, the more successful, if more, for investors, or what have you, you're right, it's always easier to get money and more money once you're successful, right? Right up, what you have it.

First is when you're trying trying and you need the most and struggling the most, don't want to give you anything. Not even a penny. It's an ancient, there's an ancient understanding. What's that quote? To those who have everything all will be given and to those who have nothing all will be taken. It's like, that's in the Bible, I believe, right?

It's true though. It's an ancient quote, but it's very, very true. And that's why the road to success tends to be a hockey stick where you've become more and more successful And it happens much faster and the decline is the same thing when you see people start to hit rock bottom That should accelerate very very quickly So this is you've got the hockey puck. I mean the hockey stick because I'm Canadian. I like that I mean at this point you it sounds like you're building yourself a very successful business. Now, is there, do you keep it going?

How long do you ride this and stay in this space? Well, that's interesting. So I did that for many years. This is, I did get burnt out on all that. I mean, at the time, what I did was, I was, I had a lot, I was very busy, but it was exhausting, it was physically exhausting attacks. It was a lot of energy to train people.

I found it to be, I think people underestimate a lot of times how physically and emotionally exhausting it is because you have to be on all the time, physically and also the pressure of the pressure of looking a certain way because there's this thing in your, because at the time, and I'll go back to it, I had because of who I was training and everything else. You know, just how we have social media now, right?

And we had, we have all these, it was different, but still the same, like Nike and all these other companies, you become an ambassador. They give you a lot of free stuff because they want you to basically promote it to your clients or be seen wearing it. And so there's that thought. So I had a bunch of endorsement deals back at the time. And so I had pressure to look a certain way, to be a certain way, and it was like emotionally

exhausting because you have to be there for somebody mentally too because you become like their therapist in a way. And it was very, very tiring. So I actually, I got burnt out and you'll like this a little bit, Sal, I think because I left the fitness business for a little bit and I became a media trainer. So then I completely pivoted again.

Wait, wait, wait, what a media trainer? Yes. So explain that. So, okay, so I was doing this for years and then my mentor, who the one, the first guy who gave me my job in, as a trainer in the music world at MCA, Universal, he, you know, I was, I was working my ass off, and then also managing other people's exhausting too, right? Because it's very difficult.

I, after a few years, four years, whatever, five years, I went to him and I'm like, you know what, this is like, I'm really tired. He's, he's like, well, I don't know, why don't you just like quit this? He's like, I have a friend. He's like, I have his friend who lives in Washington. He has a media training company.

And he's looking to open up the LA office, or like looking for someone to take over the LA office. And I think it'd be great. And I'm like, what do you mean? Like what do you mean a media office? Like what do you mean media trainer? What are you talking about? He's like, you should meet with him.

And you know, like he's a friend from, they both went to Harvard or Penn or somewhere together. He's like, he's a friend from Harvard or Penn, Wharton, they went to Wharton. Just meet with him. He's coming out late. See what he has to say. So I met with this guy and he basically was telling me that the job is to train celebrities and high level corporate executives, like CEO, CFO, COO, like C-level

executives, for when there's an issue in the company or they need to like talk to the media, because there is a way to do it and there's a way not to do it, right? So when there's a crisis, kind of like crisis management. Like a PR, is that what I mean? It's kind of like a, yeah, it's a form. So it's under the PR umbrella. But it's like crisis management firms usually hire media trainers to train high level executives or celebrities to be a certain way when they speak to the media

to give off the word. So it's so random fuck up, right? So yeah. So basically I met with this guy and this guy, these people are like, buttoned up as fuck. They're not like wearing like ripped jeans and running shoes like I would every day and you know, come from the music world,

like you know, basically hanging out with Britney Spears, you know what I mean? They're like super serious, like they're usually anchors from like CNN or people who have like a very high, like very big journalists, like there were journalists prior to being a media trainer So so anyway, he met I met with him. I walk away from that meeting I'm like there's no way that I'm doing this job

First of all, he's telling me that I have to wear like a suit every day to work and I was like fuck There's no way I'm gonna so I left the job I left the interview and I went to call Clyde his name's Clyde and I'm like there's no way I'm gonna, so I left the job. I left the interview and I went to call Clyde. His name's Clyde and I'm like, there's no way Clyde I'm gonna be able to do that job. And he's like, you can do it Jennifer. He's like, don't, he's like, look, come on, look what you've done.

He kind of like reiterated kind of what I was just telling you about like my evolution of my life, basically career-wise, professional-wise. He's like, what's the worst that can happen? You don't like it, then you'll figure it out again. So I was like, all right, all right. So I call up this guy, his name's Andy Gilman, and he was living, he's, company's called

Com Core Consulting, and he hired me. And I basically said, I'll take the job, and I said, on the one condition, I don't have the word, suit, and he's like, well, I'll take the job. And I said, on the one condition, I don't have the word suit. And he's like, well, I guess it's LA, because he lived in Washington. And he's like, I guess that's fine. And so I took the job, and I became a media trainer.

And I like, you know, basically grew the LA office. And I had a lot, I did a lot of big business for a good two, three years until I realized that wasn't what I wanted to do. But I had clients like eBay, so Meg Whitman at the time, again, this is a long time ago, eBay, all the video game companies. So like Activision, you know, there was, who was it? Activision I had.

E, what was that one? E, sport? E sport. Yeah, E, A, but yeah, all of them. And yeah, so I did that for a couple of years. How did you learn how to do that then at that? You didn't know what's been- They trained me, they trained me. And honestly, what I found was, they were like, business, they were modules, like certain modules that you kind of teach people.

And it really was about being a good salesperson to get the business. And then you kind of like follow a certain template. And then you're kind of, you're good. But he was excellent. Like this guy Andy Gilman is an amazing media trainer. I mean, he's still to this day is probably one of the top ones in the country world. He has major major, like he does everything from like

all the White House stuff to, you know, when Johnson and Johnson had like a tempering with the Tylenol thing. I mean, big ones. And he trained me and we had a bunch of other amazing people. But it was all but like how to sit, like don't, it's like body language is a big one, right? Like if you're sitting and your arms are crossed, you know, you're being very, you're basically very standoff-ish.

If you're kind of more like open, you're going to, you know, like, and there's what they taught me just if anyone wants to know is that it's all about having landing points, right? So everybody walks into an interview and you have to have three things that you want to get across, right? So if you're like a high level CEO or a celebrity, you're usually doing these interviews because there's something that you have to like get across to your audience that or else you wouldn't be doing it. Like you're confident this is powerful that like that. Well, no, I mean point. So like no one's really people don't really want to do interviews at that level unless they have something to promote or talk about that's

been like kind of like like a big deal. That's kind of like either like a stock dropped or there was like an issue with a product or someone's promoting a new album or a book, you know, there's ways you want this three things to no matter what someone at no matter what the question is, there's a way to get to that landing point, right? So you have that's why you have, because if you ask me a question, like, give me anything. What's your favorite highlight for your color in your hair?

Yeah. Well, what I really love is, I always love this like light brown blonde, and what I found within my last book, it really came out really nicely when it was in photos. Transition to the book. So you have like a place that you transition to the three places, depending what it is, right? And then no matter what they ask you, you always land on those three things.

And that you want to make sure you're not looking left, you're not looking right. There's a certain cheat sheet, right? And if you study it and train it, it's number one that's important. And then if you're a trainer, if you like your trainer and that you trust that trainer, like the person that's basically training you, the chances of you succeeding are very high. So that's like, when people have bad eye contact, it's very, it comes across probably 80 to 90% worse than you actually think that person feels like if I don't look at you, like it inside, like you're kind of like, I come across awkward to you and you might not like me as much. But if I was like super engaged and looking at you and smiling automatically, I receive you more.

Right. Right. And then if, so, and then like if I'm open, if I'm like staying like this versus open and happy looking, it's like it gives off on a whole different thing. So that's where I learned. So two, three years of that got bored with that. Okay, and then what, yes. And then I didn't get bored, I didn't get bored. But I didn't, it wasn't my... It wasn't your purpose.

It wasn't my thing. Like I just like, I liked it and I needed a break. And then I went back into the fitness space. And then that's when I built no gym. So what happened was I moved back to Canada for a couple of years. And when I moved back to Canada, I started to rebuild my fitness stuff again. And I got a deal with LaSenza, which is like the equivalent to Victoria Secret. LaSenza is like the Victoria

Secret of Canada and the UK. And when I did a deal with them, I tried to rebuild my, I guess, my name or have some kind of presence. When I did all these like billboard campaigns with them, part of the deal was that in every billboard, I would write my name on the billboards, so people would not just think of me as like, oh, there's a picture of a girl wearing a sports bra, but like, oh, that girl's Jennifer Cohen wearing, you know, that, so like, so he modeled for them. I was like more, I was a spokesperson, which meant like, it was more like campaigns for them. So I would say more like a model. But then it would be everywhere. So people would always, it was all over everywhere.

It was like, yeah. Did you negotiate that to put your name on there? Oh, you did. That was smart. So I'm like, I don't want to just be like a model for like, you know, for some clothes. If I'm going to do this, there has to be a purpose behind it. So I'm going to write my name on it. So when people would drive by, so to believe me, they'll see my name and they'll remember

it. So that would help me again to rebuild. And how I got my name on it. So when people would drive by, so, literally, they'll see my name and they'll remember it. So that would help me, again, to rebuild. And how I got my first book deal, I kid you not in Canada, Key Porter was my book publisher, the publisher of my book deal, would look at that poster out of his office every day and saw my name every day. Wow, that's right.

And... How did you make that connection? Told me. Yeah, he told you. Yeah, so at the time, okay, so I did that. And then I did a lot of other stuff around. I started trading people again. I started getting my name in the press a lot. I started building small little things like how to get kind of like how to be fit at home,

how to be fit when you go traveling. And so when I got my book deal, I named the book No Jim Required to kind of start building my own brand. Now, are you, when you're doing this, are you, are you using your connections? Are you doing a lot of stuff for free to get, because you're saying again,

a lot of really cool stuff. I did a lot of stuff for free. Okay, I think that's a good point to make that because I assume that with your tenacity that you just, you don't go, oh how much am I going to get for doing this? You're like, this is important for me to do. Right. So I think what's important to point out is that you can't be short-term greedy, right? Because when you're short-term, when you do that, the long-term success always

falters a little bit, right? Like I always looked a little bit further into the future and then thought okay to get from point A to point you know D I got to do B and C right? So how do I do that? Right? So I was never someone like I would do a lot of stuff for free. Can you think of an example like a time where you were you like you know most people probably would have wanted money to do that And you're like I'd rather not take the money for the long-term gain. Okay, so I did those sends a campaign for free Oh, you did if they wrote my name on the post That's to me is so smart instead of just and most kids would make the decision I see this happen with even like supplement companies like they just want to be affiliated with this big company

the decision, I see this happen with even like supplement companies, like they just want to be affiliated with this big company makes them feel popular and crazy to say, Oh, look, I'm on a billboard. I'm famous. Right. Right. Where you're like, fuck it. Don't pay me, but put my name on there. 100%. Because any, any Joe Schmo can be on a poster, right? If you're hot, right? Like if you've got it, it's kind of, it's kind of sad, but like if you're like a good looking girl, they'll put it. I mean, anyone can get on. If you're good looking and you have the right body type wherever they're looking for, right? But very few people would be like,

how do you distinguish yourself from that crowd, right? Like in the masses, right? You have to have your, if you're not like, if you're not like, Jacelle, how are you supposed to like have a name for yourself? Right. So then at least if like, I said, keep your money, but just make sure my name is very, very well.

You know, it's big enough that people can see it. And it's on every single piece of billboard. And I'll tell you what happened. There's a story behind it. This is going to be like a six hour broadcast. No worry about it. This is going to be like a six hour broadcast. That's all right.

Good stories. So I'm not going to name the, well, I was, okay, so let me, I did a big campaign where I wasn't supposed to be as big as it was and they used it as like their massive campaign. And it was everywhere. It was in every magazine, it was in every country internationally.

It became like an entire, like, it was like the very, very famous picture. And I had no one knew it was me because I was looking down. And people thought it was me because it looked like me. And I had, again, I had like a star of David that everyone knew. So people who knew me knew it, but, you know and I got not only did I get no I got barely any money for it, but I got no recognition for it. And so it didn't really help me at all, right? So I learned I learned from my mistake that I don't want that to happen again.

And number two, like I said, if I want to be doing something, I wanted to do something where there would be some kind of visibility where they can leverage that into a bigger opportunity. Because the point of just doing an ad for doing an ad, yeah, it's fine, but there's, how does that help in the long run, that short term? There's no long term gain to that to me. What a great lesson for today's insta celebrities that you have, like especially these guys and girls posting half naked pictures of themselves

getting all these followers and there's no real value. There's no connection. They got half a million followers and nothing, they can't make any money off of it. They don't build any brand. There's no authority. Some actually do make a lot of money off of it,

which bothers me even more because these people who have zero knowledge, zero education on what they're promoting are being super negligent with the public, because people look at someone and think because they have a nice ass that they know what they're talking about. A short term, though.

I think we're gonna see that bubble burst. I hope so. I hope so, because I think it's harmful. We're, Ible bird. I hope so. I hope so. I mean we're think about it. We're harmful. We're I mean those of us have been doing this for a very long time. I mean Instagram is fairly new to us still. And so that's true. There is this. I mean I think it's starting to come out more and more this whole facade of how many people and there's more people talking about this how we present the only the best versions of ourselves. And people are photoshopping and they're getting in shape one time and then using those photos.

So all this stuff is starting to surface. And so I think these kids that have got a million and they're flipping shitty programs and they're making a bunch of money right now and buying up Lamborghinis and showing all that shit. I think you're gonna see that flip on a 10 in the next year. And the average consumer, I hope so. I think so, especially because when I look at the average consumer,

I mean, I've been doing this for 20 years, the average consumer today is actually more educated than they used to be. There's a little bit smarter. I mean, back when I first became a trainer, I used to have to really convince women just to lift weights. Like, no, you're not gonna look like Arnold Schwarzenegger tomorrow. You know, today, I don't have to convince them as much.

They're much, the average consumer knows a lot more, and I think it's because of the so much more information, but there is a lot of that crap out there. I also think that the average, I think that I agree with you that the average consumer definitely is much more knowledgeable than they used to be. For sure. However, I also think the average consumer is extremely confused because they have too much knowledge over a lot of things. They have a little knowledge, a little knowledge, with a lot of things.

And they can't decipher now. It's a little, and a little information is very dangerous, right? Because that's when you make bad decisions, right? Because then you know, they know a little bit about the paleo diet, a little bit about keto, a little bit about weights, a little bit about this. And so they get nowhere fast because they're like,

okay, they're saying everything is contradicting each other a little bit. And I think that's what's really, it could be very, very, it could be very confusing, and then you don't get any result or anything else. My, I would think the best thing to do is like, pick a few places where you trust and like the sources,

and follow what they say, But it's hard, right? Because with social media and with everything else, there's information overload. And like I said, a little information can be very dangerous. That's exactly how mind pump exists and why it's successful is that we really try to be the filter for the fitness industry. We're not trying to say, we're the smartest guys, or we have all the answers, or we're always right,

but we do have enough experience. We are smart enough to be able to help the average person disseminate the information that's coming from the masses, so they can then make a better educated decision. There's also, we're also in a situation with so much information, like you're saying, where there's lots of information, but not a lot of wisdom and I learned this as

Probably took me thought I'd say maybe seven or eight years as a trainer Where I learned that you know if I had a client sit in front of me in the beginning when I first started training people I give them everything like here's your meal plan do your cardie here's your workout I threw everything but the kitchen sink at them and I had short-term success But long-term people would fall off, and they wouldn't do very well. I learned later on that I was much more effective if I could just get one thing to be changed fundamentally,

stick with that, and then add something else to it. So it's a longer process, but then I had clients that would work with me for 10, 12, 15 years, who had long-term success. So I think information is plentiful, the wisdom isn't so much. And so you get a lot of this shotgun approach of like you said, like keto diet does this, paleo diet

and people are sitting there going, okay, now what about me and how does this work with my lifestyle and what about the individual variance and how my body reacts and responds. And I don't, I'm not even listening to my body anymore. You know, even though that, I've had people message me who are like, oh, you know, I heard this podcast on ketogenic diets and I heard it was great

and I've been doing it for three months and you know, I'm so constipated, I'm going to the bathroom once a week and I'm like, listen to your body, it's not working for you. You know, probably not good. Yeah, very basic, you know, start over there. Well, I think common sense isn't so common. And I think that's one of the issues, right?

Because what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for somebody else. And nobody wants to kind of like, this is, and this is what happens with me when I do, I do a lot of these talks in LA. And you know, people always say to me, you know, what's the best, you know, fill in the blanks? What's the best exercise? What's the best, you know, fill in the blank? What's the best exercise? What's the best food to do? And it's like, you know, I always have to say to people

what the best is whatever, like for exercise is the one that you're actually gonna do, right? If I say boxing and you hate boxing, you're never gonna do it, so it doesn't really matter. But like nobody wants to hear that. They wanna hear, what's that magic pill? What's that magic thing? Because we all have, we're losing the ability to have concentration

for more than five seconds at a time. And so what happens is they say, the next best thing, what's the next best thing? Here, what is? And whenever I tell people, it's really unfortunately, it's not very sexier glamorous, but the basics work the best. The basic exercises work the best. The basic exercises work the best.

The basic, like, donate process food, just eat clean. And they get bored. They're like, oh, that's what you're going to tell me. All right, often the next one. Where can I go? Who can I follow that will show me something? Who's got it? Yeah, exactly.

What's the newest assi whatever? But it's true. It is a knowing your body, knowing you you and having some self awareness to that, and common sense, and knowing what, I'm kind of like a little bit of trial in an error. And then once you find something that works, just do that, you know? And our industry's also done such a terrible job

promoting the right things in many instances. We talked about resistance training, which is a big one. For a long time, it's been cardio that's been promoted. Like crazy. Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I think in the context of modern life,

like lifting weights is what's gonna give you a faster metabolism, which makes it easier to live in a day and age where food is everywhere. Absolutely. You know what's interesting? It's like this is exercise to me keeps you healthy. You're right, it's good for your cardiovascular health. But to think that exercise alone will help you with fat loss with everything else is such a myth to me.

People are like, oh, if I just know because the reality is it is the 80-20 rule. I think 80% of it is what you eat is your diet. If you want to look, quote-unquote, a certain way, you have to have a calorie deficit, in my opinion, to what it is, right? It's, you know, with resistance training versus cardio, resistance training is what builds lean muscle mass, right? We all know that, right?

Which then helps with your metabolism, which helps you burn calories. But people, girls, especially do an overload of cardio, which actually burns all their muscle, which makes it harder for them to, but it's all of this stuff is more behavioral and psychological than anything else. And so, what was the first perk that you wrote again? No, Jim required.

No, Jim required. How did that succeed when you came out? Did it do well? It did well. It did very well. The thing is, the whole purpose behind it was to give people easy, simple solutions to be healthier and fit.

It wasn't like, do this and you're gonna have a six pack. It's like, you were saying, it's like changing, like basically small wins equals big change. Like, don't focus so much on, you know, if your, my point always has been in all my books, is that if you are five two, right, and you are five two and 130 pounds, why are you trying to be Jacelle, who's like six feet?

Like, A, try to work within like being self, of being realistic with what you have and maximizing on those assets, right? And like having goals, create realistic goals for yourself to win on the long term, right? And like having, and having goals create realistic goals for yourself to win on the long term, right? And like don't, don't go from zero to 60, but like tweak your habits because habits and rituals will make it a lifestyle over time. And that's what really gives you long term success. Now you've written more than just that book. Oh yeah, yeah. What did you follow that up with? So that was very good questions. It was no gym required

as my first book and then strong as the new skinny as my second was my second book and this third book is called Badass Body Goals. Now strong as the new skinny did very well. Very well. Very well. Very well. You were selling a message of like building strength and getting your muscle. Right, so the whole purpose, the message behind strong as a new skinny was not everybody could be skinny, but everybody could be strong. So work from a place of positivity

and work to a goal that's actually achievable for everybody. Like, I don't know if you agree with this, I go, I follow you on Instagram. But I feel that I know you're going to say I don't agree, but I do believe that genetics plays a part in how people physically, but you were talking about like a baseline, like a baseline I saw when it was. Oh, you're talking about my set point. Yeah, your set point. Yeah, some people might I think misunderstood what I was saying. There's definitely a set point, right? Well, I'll have our genetic basis for more we should be.

But the problem is they've used that to describe like, an obesity set point. Oh, yes. Like, no, nobody has a set point that sets you at obese. You know, obviously, Adam has a different, you know, genetic makeup than Justin. But if Adam was 350 pounds and he's like, oh, every time I get down to 200 pounds,

my body wants to go up to 350, I think it's my genetic set point. No, that's your lifestyle set point. You were so used to the lifestyle that you had with your diet and your lack of activity that changing that fundamentally is very different. Anything that you do. All right, that makes that's different.

I agree with that. So, but I think that genetically, like we all have, like in my, in no gym requires my first book, I talk a lot about, I break it down to like an ectomorph, an endomorph, a mesomorph. This is a matter of times. Right. And then I don't talk so much about that in strong or badass body goals, which is my current book. But I do say that genetically, that was my media training background, there. That little point. Yeah. Is that, I think genetically, I know for myself, like I'm genetically, I have a certain body type that I can sway seven pounds more or less.

And if I try to get to beneath my, my genetic comfort zone, it's very, very hard for me to, to stay there. So like, I find that, that's very, very hard for me to stay there. So like, I find that that's what I feel. Like I feel like you can only, you can only like, you can only modify your genetics so much. Sure. Now, where would you say your, or, or, is it, do you sit like the way you look right now? Is this kind of how you like to maintain yourself? No. You look very fit. Really?

Oh, thank you. I feel, well, no, I think, I think this is the thing. I think as I get older, I'm a little bit, I'm, I'm not as hard on myself as I used to be. I used to be much more hard. I like strive for perfection more. Like I would really be hard on myself, I'd criticize myself if I didn't look a certain way. Now I'm kind of a little more like loose, the goosey about it.

I have two kids now. So, do I find myself eating off their plates sometimes? Yes. More than I should, a hundred percent. Does that hurt my waistline? Like, if I was single and had no kids, it would be way easier for me to be physically on point all the time.

Now, with what my, here's as being having realistic expectations, given the fact that I have two kids, what my, this is being having like realistic expectations, given the fact that I have two kids, my schedule's like kind of hectic all the time. I do the best I can, and I think I'm doing pretty well, but you know, what I like to, sometimes I'm tighter than I am other times because of what I eat. Because more, sorry, go ahead.

No, I was gonna say, do you find that your relationship with exercise as you get older and nutrition becomes healthier in that sense? Because I was very similar in the sense, when I was younger, I had to look a particular way and I was super anal about my nutrition and training. And now it's more, I enjoy it, it's more for my health. And I feel like I have a healthier relationship with it,

even though I might not be as shredded all the time. Exactly, like I feel like I do have a healthier relationship. Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna give off, am I still in my head a little bit crazy and psychotic and hard of myself? Yes, I do, I'm not gonna lie. But that doesn't, unfortunately, or unfortunately, I don't know how it translates sometimes

because I do let myself go more with what I'm eating diet. Like, I used to be very particular, like you said, about how you eat, but now I'm like, all right, so I'll have that piece of care or cake. Or, okay, I'm gonna have a couple of those french fries, things I would never know, but now it's like part of what I do, unless, you know, unless, and this is where I was gonna say, like, I still exercise, like, I'm very consistent with my exercise.

But I will say, when my diet isn't on point, I will see it in my physically. It just happens. That's why the irony in that, though, is that and you say you see it in your physical and you compare or we compare ourselves to the best version of ourselves. But in reality, you're probably in a healthier, better place. You really are. And to be able to have that flexibility and what Sal was alluding to that,

a relationship to be able to be okay with having a couple of French fries, being able to have that care kick every now and then, and then also still being consistent and not allowing that to spiral you down at a control like a lot of people. Well, look at total health. And this was a mind-blowing thing for me.

And it happened not that long ago. I've been doing this for a long time. It took me a long time to learn this. But when you look at total health, we, as trainers, we tend to think of total health as the physical. We think of health as the physical. But it's not just the physical.

It's the mental, it's the spiritual. It's the relationships you have with people around you and yourself. And you know, they even show this in studies when they study, you know, the world's blue zones, they find one of the things that all these blue zones have in common, is where people live a long time, is they have good connections with people around them and good relationships. That's one of the few things that they find in common with like the people in Okinawa and the people in Sardinia, for example, or the people in, you know, the Seventh-day Adventist in Loma

Linda, California. And so now when I look at the sphere as this total health thing, you know, am I as shredded as I would have been in my 20s consistently? No, but am I overall healthier and happier, definitely, because now I view it differently and it's a different relationship. Yeah, I, I, that's exactly true. So, I mean, there are people I know, and I'm sure you guys all know these people,

who they look like, they look like beautiful specimens, right, like they are just perfect physically, but you know what to beat, I know what it takes to be that way, consistently, and it's not fun. Okay, let's just like be real here for a moment. It's not fun, it's extremely selfish. It's extremely selfish.

Usually you have shitty personal relationships because everything is focused around you. Everything burns around you. Right, everything is about focused on what you do, how you eat, you can't go out of restaurants because you have to eat so clean that you have to only prepare your own food. You won't socialize because again, if you socialize you're going to a prepare your own food, you know, you won't socialize

because again, if you socialize, you're going to a restaurant, you're going to parties, you're going to where there's alcohol, you won't do that. It's all about you and your schedule. It's a shitty play out of a really shitty way to live. It's really hard to have personal relationships. It's really hard to like connect to people.. To me, I never went that far because being able to connect to people was always very, very high on my priority list, but I will tell you, I got pretty close sometimes, but I see people today and I'm like, you know, you poor thing because you're missing out on so much other things in life. There are so much more important than you having an eight pack right now.

You know, like I had this, I had this couple come to my house for a little bit ago. And the guy is like beyond perfect, right? Like he's a perfect specimen. And you know, I was like, and I always like would look at him and be like, wow, like this. And then like you get to, you kind of like peel the onion, the layers of that onion a little bit. And you see like God, like he won't need it. Exactly, he did it. It does. It does. It kind of makes you cry.

And he's miserable because he's so, like he's so, everything is so regimented. And it's all about like being so perfect that everything else in his life is like lacking. Oftentimes it's driven by extreme insecurities. And this guy's variance exactly. Yeah, and I've said this, all of us have said this millions of times.

I've worked with thousands of clients, everyday people. The worst and most common food relationship issues in eating disorders ever are people who are in my field. Personal trainers, fitness, you know, competitors, bikini competitors, bodybuilders. Like the, I would say the percentage of people in my space with an eating disorder is at least two or three times higher if not more than you see in the average space.

It's actually common. Not only is it common, I think it's more common than not because to be, to get into this industry, to be in this industry, it's because you have some kind of like psychosis about it for yourself. Because you are like, there is a reason, like you have some kind of like insecurity about your physicality or you want to maintain your physical, whatever it is, that's what drives you to be this, it's a nutritionist, it's a dietician, it's a personal trainer. I think I see it like I see almost

eight out of 10 times. It's more rare to find the other one. I agree with you. It's rarely ever do I meet somebody in this space that isn't battling either major insecurities still or isn't dealing with some sort of food poor food relationship or poor relationship with exercise. One hundred, exactly. They're like maybe they don't have an eating disorder, but they have disordered eating, right? Which is, you know, still a disorder, or they're exercise, they, they like are, would you call it like an extra bulimic

or whatever, like they overextercise. Oh yeah, it's a punishment. They go to the gym because they hate themselves, not because they love themselves. They've got to love the exact same. Yeah, and I've done that. I've been there before. I know it. I know that.

I know what it feels like. It's funny, Jennifer, all the things we communicate on the show, we talk about like how to work out, how to eat right, different exercise modalities. We talk about science, also the message that gets us the most comments and the one that people think is the most is this one right here. Well, we teach people to treat themselves

like they care about themselves because, and it's sad, it's a message nobody else is really communicating that much in our space, unfortunately. And I see a lot of people being affected, both men and women, but especially men, you see this a lot, I'm just, I'm just, especially women, you see this a lot in young women.

Yeah. And it's, it's too bad. It's terrible. I mean, that's a lot of why it was important for me with strong as a new skin to kind of give, really convey a very positive message to women because I see it all the time and I feel like we constantly are comparing ourselves

to what we think in our brains that's perfect. And realistic, like I said, if you ever just peel that onion on that person that you think is so perfect, it's because they look a certain way. I think you'd be sad, you'd be very disappointed where really goes on in their brain and their psyche.

And it's one of those things where it's like, that's why you have to look inside yourself and look at fitness as a way to love yourself as opposed to like how to, versus the opposite like you were saying. Excellent. Now, I want to change gears for a second because you said you have two kids.

Yes, I do. How old are they? Five and three. Five and three. Yeah. Now, let's talk for a second about how, because we get this question all the time, it's so difficult to get your kids,

especially nowadays, to be active and to eat right. So let's talk about eating right first. Okay. How do you manage like getting your kids to eat in. So let's talk about eating right first. Like how do you manage like getting your kids to eat in a way that's healthy? Because what I try to do is I, I think as a parent you have to lead by example, because I don't, a kid's not buying his own food.

He's not going to Ralph's or whole foods and picking out his own stuff, right? He's looking at the parent to go buy the food for the kid or make the food for the kid. And as you leave, I'm extremely active. So like, if I'm not working out, I'm walking everywhere if I can. And now it's like a, you don't walk.

People like drive down the street, right? But I walk to as many places as I can and I take my kids with me. I walk to the mall. I walk to the grocery store. And I'm very active, and my husband's very active. So what kids like to do is they like to mimic their parents,

right? So because I'm active and my husband's active, then they want to be active, they want to do it. So like when I'm working out, my kids downstairs trying to do a push up or trying to like do a squat, you know, or whatever else. And I show him the importance of it by not just telling them, right? Because at that age, they won't understand.

But you show them. That's on the activity part. And by the way, my kids are very active. And I think because I'm also, they're probably hyperactive because of the parents. But if you think I have a lot of energy, you have no idea of my husband, but that's a whole, that's a great amount. You guys must have created a monster.

You have no idea. A couple tornadoes in there. My kid is so athletic, it is sick. Okay, anyway, I digress. And then on the food part, I'm making their food. So I try to make sure that they're, I'm controlling a lot of what they eat and what, so making sure they're eating well, I can't control even at this stage when they're going to the friend's house or going to birthday parties Whatever else, but if I can like show them by example and and cook for them that's healthy

Then that's really what I hope that they would take that and like instill that into themselves because my message points So even with them, you know, getting back to my media training days are always very similar, which is to be strong, to be healthy, to have energy, you have to eat like this, you have to do this. So I think you, it's repetition, repetition and practice, like anything else in life. It doesn't change just because- Yeah, fully agree, I think it's like 85% of it is just

how you are in your house, and how you are. Yeah. Yeah. Fully agree. I think it's like 85% of it is just how you are in your house and how you are modeling it. Yeah. Modeling it exactly. The most important thing you can do, really. Wow. Your kids don't think, don't they go, they follow you in your little home gym and lift the kettlebells and stuff.

Yeah, like my kid. Just like you. Yeah, I do. Yeah, I actually built a whole thing downstairs so they can climb and try to make it as fun and inviting as possible. Yeah. so it's not as structured, but at the same time, I know that they're not doing it enough at school and it irritates me. It's terrible.

Now they're actually, they're eliminating recess and all this stuff from schools by like 90%, which is absurd to me too. I don't understand why they would be doing this. It's like a... Because they could just medicate them. They'll just give them medication. Yeah, since they're in class.

It's what the deal is. Jennifer, have you ever watched the prime series, the marvelous Miss Mazzell? Of course, I love it. Is that great or what? Yeah, what made you think? What made you? Well, you have a Jewish background.

I don't know anybody that I don't have a personal friend of mine that comes from like a rich Jewish family. And my girl and I are a huge fan of the show We've watched all the episodes absolutely love the show. Oh, okay, and so I told her I was and I was asking her Do you have any Jewish friends that come from a rich background like this? And she says no me either I was like I'm really curious that is is this rich monetarily or rich like rich as it's culturally rich well both Right the show is very rich. I was in that rich. Well both, right? The show is very rich. Right. I wasn't that rich when I tell you, but anyway, go on.

But is your mom and dad kind of like that? No, because they come. It's very, their background is very, she's very aristocratic in that way. New York wealth is very different than growing up in Winnipeg. Remember where I grew up? Right, small town. It was very much, I wish, I don't know how to translate the word hamish

to like very family oriented, very like jovial and like social, but not aristocratic. That comes from much more of a New York, aristocratic kind of background, right? I have a lot of friends who came from that, who lived like that or did, but no, that's not how I grew. But in some senses with the mother, the father, like kind of like some of the nuanced behaviors

is very similar, like pushy, you know, like pushy, some of those things, like kind of like kind of the gilting trip, the gil trips. Oh, that's a tie-in parents trip. It's a tie-in parents trip. But by the way, Italians and Jewish people are almost identical. Oh, look at this.

Hey, Mish, the definition of Hey Mish is a Yiddish word that means friendly or homie. Okay. Yes, no, no. Exactly, that's perfect. Your personality kind of reminds me of her also. You've got that she has that kind of energy. Think of really? Yeah. Is that good or bad?

Good. That's good. I mean, think about what she does in the show, her tenacity. Her tenacity. Right. I mean, I feel like it's so smart. I'm so glad you've watched the show. I was like, you've got to watch that. That's a great show. It's a great show. I love that. So right now you're focusing on the new book that you're releasing and then are. I am. And I'm also starting my own podcast now. Awesome. Yes.

And I'm still I'm between two names still. Maybe you guys can help me. Yeah, let's do it. We're gonna throw Mattis. Okay, I'm having a really hard time. So, okay, I was first gonna do the name warming up as in like, you know, warming up and also like warming up like what we're doing right now.

Worming up with Jen Cohen and then people were like, like what we're doing right now, warming up with Jen Cohen, and then people were like, okay, I never knew. And then I really love the name, goal getters, you know, like your goal getters. Or I first like goal getters, and that was taken. And then goal getters kind of also. And then the other one was Gensperation. Mm, interesting.

So here, so. Let's figure it out right now. Yeah, let's do it. I like, I could see why the... All three of them have some appeal, but I'll say this. This is something that we did early on that I thought was, that now looking back was very smart of us. At the time, it was a bit of a gamble.

A lot of times when people start a podcast or start media, they think I'm gonna name it something specific so that people know they can get fitness information here, for example. We wanted to give ourselves a name that left it open. It's like mind, pump could be fitness, but it could be a lot of other things. Right.

You have the kind of personality and the background that you could go anywhere. And you also get bored with things after a lot of years. Exactly. Who knows what you need me talking about. That's a real, I do, I probably have a second husband. I've been sitting here for, with things after a while. Exactly. Who knows what you need me talking about. You have no idea. I do. I probably second-hundreds.

I've been sitting here for 90 minutes. I do have an idea. So you don't want to pigeonhole yourself. That's my advice to you, for sure. I've been talking aerospace in like year 2022. So you'll maybe pick a name that can mean a lot. I like Go getters. Go getters does that.

I go getters allows a lot of flexibility for you. I like that. Because I could see you interviewed doing stuff in fitness, but also interviewing people in other spaces. Right, well, the podcast is funny. You say it's not going to be solely on fitness. It's going to be much more about inspiring people, kind of like a very big entrepreneurial slat,

which about getting people to like practical, actionable like takeaways that someone an audience person can take with them and use in their own life. Like some kind of like three inspirational things or three practical things or a combination. And like really about the routine, the morning routines that have had of these successful people who've created something with some form of mind, body, element of what they do to be productive and to be on one point. I mean, I opened it up to this talk I had and everyone loved inspiration and I wasn't really, I was like on the fence between... I don't like that and I'll tell you why I don't like that.

Who said this? I don't like that because you have such a big vision in almost everything that you do. And that really forces you to have to be the voice of that. What if what you're building ends up being humongous, which I imagine you're driving towards. And one day you want to step away from that, but keep the business running.

That really forces you to have to be in it. That's be like, and a lot of people I think make this mistake is they brand their company that they're trying to build around themselves because a lot of people give that advice, if you want to market yourself. But one of the things that I think, another thing that I thought we did really well was we knew that we didn't care about the fame as the business grew. None of us wanted to be in the limelight. In fact, we've pulled ourselves from the YouTube channel.

We've actually pulled ourselves out of all of our own programs. We hired models and we did re-vis- so we've actually as the business continues to scale, we continue to remove ourselves from that so that we have this opportunity in five or 10 years to look at it and say, I guess having fun still, let's keep going, or hey, let's keep the business running

and keep it moving, but let's pull ourselves out of it and keep it operating. And that won't be hard to do. Like, we have a friend right now, and we're watching Ben Greenfield, good buddy of ours, who built this big. Oh, Ben Greenfield, I wanted to do his podcast. Yeah, Ben's a great guy,

but we'll make that in a short time. Oh, sure. So Ben is pivoting right now to Keon and that and it's a really hard transition when you've built this empire around Ben Greenfield in this name and then now you're building this whole other separate brand Keon and people to make that connection. So that's right. This is why they'll tell you something, not to interrupt you, but because I did have an app. I don't know if you knew that or not.

I didn't know that you didn't know. So I didn't know that. You didn't? No. So I built an app. And Weight Watchers bought it, right? Yeah. And I got acquired by Weight Watchers. And it was called Hot Five. So when I had my baby and after Strong as a new second baby, and I finished Strong as a new skinny, and I didn't want to travel as much, I built this app with these two dudes. It was very successful. Weight Watchers did acquire it a couple years ago. And when I was away from everything, it was very confusing because people either knew me as my name. And then I was away for all these years. And so then it was like hot five was the name of it. So no one even, no one even like put, put two and two together that I was hot five. In fact, when Weight Watch, let's get this. I used to be the spokesperson for Weight Watchers.

I mean, legit, I would write their blog, I would write a column in their magazine. I did 10 of their DVDs, fitness DVDs. I did a ton of stuff with Weight Watchers. And when they acquired Hot Five, they didn't even know that it was me behind it. How crazy is that? Okay.

Okay, so I'm telling you, so I understand what you're saying about that, but um, I see what you're saying. You want to have your name there so that if you leave, you can come back or build your brand or I'm trying to, yeah, I'm so that's what I'm saying. Like, is it better to like brand myself? Like, because I'm always in either doing something on the on the fourth, like in the front facing, that I leave and do the back facing and then I go back in the front. You know what I mean? Well, to that point though, to that point you just made the question I would ask then is would wait what would have wait watchers acquired it if the app was named after you? No, but I think no, no, no, you're right.

But what I'm saying is number one, the most important thing is having good content, right? Having really good guests and the content should be always number one. But number two is like iTunes and this is a question I will ask you, you know, like there's so many apps, I'm sorry, so many podcasts, like how do you even get found? Like I went on there and goal getter was taken. So it's like, do I, how do I, now if I'm doing goal getters, are people gonna be confused? You know, like, do I have to have my name in there? So people are, maybe for the one person who wants to listen to it, they'll find it more easily.

You know. Well, you have, I'm assuming you have, you have a bit of a built-in audience because you're a book, so you probably have an email list. So with iTunes, the first eight weeks, if you perform well in comparison to other podcasts that have just started for the first eight weeks, if you perform well in comparison to other podcasts that have just started for the first eight weeks, you'll get listed on their featured page.

That's a great way to get exposed. What I would do is I would get five to ten episodes that you can drop, set it out to your audience, and boost your downloads, you get featured on it. With your network alone, you should be able to jump in that top right away. And that alone will keep you going. And then as if you fall through with what you just said, which is your content driven and you're providing really good interviews,

a good information, then it will absolutely. Doing stuff like this is one of the best ways to get exposed to other podcast listeners. Right, yeah. So like our audience will then look for you, for example. I hope so, that's what we gotta figure out out this name so they know what to look for. We can also just have you back on the show. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. But then you guys have that. This is your one and only chance right here

to hit it out the park, you know. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So we've also we already figured this out that you have all these buried stories. You don't like to share. I know. I know. She's got another good one. I got a fucking pull out of you here. Yeah. Oh, by the way, I was hanging out with Keanu Reeves. Oh, right. Okay, I have to ask, so did you run into him later on? That's so funny. You should say that. I've been, you know what?

I was just thinking about this. And I'm gonna reach out to him now. I want you to. Because I want to tell him, because if it wasn't for him, helping me, you know, giving me that self-esteem and self-confidence to go and barrel forward,

who knows what would have happened? You know, and I want to thank him. He's not so easy to find. Let me tell you. He's really not so easy to find. You're telling me. You know, like, I got to like really like dig deep and figure out how to do it because- This, I would send your, I would send the original video. I would say if you have to him, to him, put it out there out there, make a copy of it or something. I'm gonna go to Costco and I get home. I mean, think about that. I'm gonna do it. Yeah, I would copy the tape and I would find a way to mail it.

Please do that and report back to us. Oh, my gosh. With a thank you car. But where do I send it? So, well, there's got to be somebody who will get that. I would send it with a letter of thanking him and telling him your story of what you've done with that because I think that's a very powerful story that that moment

Catapult you into what you've done today. I should send him this podcast. Yeah I would love that even more Maybe we'll come on together If anyone knows Kiana Reeves or has any contact to him can they please reach out to you guys at my pump and then you guys will let me know great now my My girl in the back ends gonna hate you for that. She's like yeah, I got about 400 emails people claiming they know Exactly That's so funny. This has been amazing. Yeah, this has been awesome. Well, thank you for having me Yeah, this is mean it's well by the way, should I plug my book or would I

Relax over there closer. Don't worry Thank you for having me. Yeah. Because this means it's, well, by the way, should I plug my book or what do I do? We're gonna plug all that. We'll plug all that. Okay, we're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. Okay, we're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that.

Okay, we're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. Okay, we're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that.

We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that.

We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna plug all that. We're gonna be on your show, right? I'll hug it, you promise? Yeah, absolutely. So does that mean that you come to LA, or do I have to come here with your whole setup here? We can do either. Get a nice show setup, we'll come to you. I don't know. Bring a Fiano and you know, Isaiah Thomas and the whole gang. I'll bring Brittany for you. Yeah. Isaiah for you.

I'll fly LA for that. Thank you, sure. I don't need a celebrity. I'm good. Okay, good to see you there. You need me, Sal. Oh, you're so cool. Yeah, whatever. Right on, Jen. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media dot com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps performance and maps aesthetic.

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