Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 948: Lowering Calories vs Upping Cardio for Fat Loss, the Importance of Fiber, Worst Podcasting Advice Received & MORE

Episode Date: January 18, 2019

In this episode of Quah, sponsored by MAPS Fitness Products (www.mapsfitnessproducts.com), Sal, Adam & Justin answer Pump Head questions about what’s more effective for losing fat and retaining muscle, more cardio or fewer calories considering they equal the same daily calorie deficit, if fiber the most underappreciated macronutrient or if it is the least important, the most impactful piece of advice that a client has given them in regards to personal growth and the worst piece of advice a fellow podcaster has given Mind Pump. Sal’s son getting serious about the BULK, getting in quality calories using Smoothie Box, sharing their worst ‘protein shake’ stories from the past & MORE. (3:46) Being known as the ‘fitness guy’ and people asking you for advice + the benefits of beetroot powder in products like Organifi Red Juice. (16:05) P&G’s Gillette ad asks men to shave their ‘toxic masculinity’ and a big backlash ensues. (23:01) #Quah question #1 - What’s more effective for losing fat and retaining muscle, more cardio or fewer calories considering they equal the same daily calorie deficit? (42:30) #Quah question #2 – Is fiber the most underappreciated macronutrient or is it the least important? (52:50) #Quah question #3 – What is the most impactful piece of advice that a client has given you in regards to personal growth? (1:01:05) #Quah question #4 - What is the worst piece of advice a fellow podcaster has given you about your business? (1:16:07) People Mentioned: Ben Shapiro (@officialbenshapiro)  Instagram Larry Hagner (@thedadedge)  Instagram Arya Saffaie IFBB Pro Olympian (@arya_saffaie)  Instagram Melissa Wolf WBFF BIKINI PRO (@meliwolff)  Instagram Layne Norton, PhD (@biolayne)  Instagram Shawn Baker MD (@shawnbaker1967)  Instagram Coach Danny Matranga | CSCS (@danny.matranga)  Instagram Paul Chek (@paul.chek)  Instagram Craig Capurso (@craigcapurso)  Instagram Conner Moore (@connerwanders)  Instagram Jordan Harbinger (@jordanharbinger)  Instagram Products Mentioned: January Promotion: MAPS Anabolic ½ off!!   **Code “RED50” at checkout** Smoothie Box   **Get $20 OFF your first 3 box!** Organifi   **Code “mindpump” for 20% off** Weider Mega Mass 2000 6.6-pound Bottle. Chocolate, Tub Effects of Beetroot Juice Supplementation on Cardiorespiratory Endurance in Athletes. A Systematic Review Gillette Joins the Fight against ‘Toxic Masculinity’ Mind Pump Episode 872: Dr. Warren Farrell- The Boy Crisis Mind Pump Episode 712: Dr. Shawn Baker- Carnivore Diet Advocate Shrugged Collective - A Fitness Network from the creators of Barbell Shrugged How Netflix changed entertainment — and where it's headed Mind Pump Free Resources

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, MIND, with your hosts. Salta Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, so for the first 38 minutes, we don't talk a whole lot about fitness, but we do have some fun conversation. This is the intro part of the episode. We start out by talking about my son's bulking plan. It's a lot of fun. I'm going to a lot of fun getting them on the boat. And how I'm using smoothie box to help and get quality calories. Now smoothie box delivers

to your door high quality smoothies. They're frozen in packages. You just put them in your blender. It's got collagen protein, healthy fats, healthy carbs, fruits, vegetables, and they're delicious. They are one of our sponsors. If you go to smoothiebox.com-minepump, smoothie is spelled SMOTHIEBOTX-Smoothibox.com-for-sash-minepump, you will get $20 off your first three boxes. Then we talked about Organifies Red Juice and how Justin's friend is now using it for his pre-workout.

Yeah, he loves it. Given him the energy, Organify is also one of our sponsors. If you go to organify.com, forward slash Mind Pump and use the Go Mine Pump, you'll get 20% off. Then we talked about beetroot powder for nitric oxide production, nitric oxide, dilates your blood vessels, increases blood flow, improves your endurance, good conversation in that part of the episode. Then we mentioned the new Gillette ad that's causing a lot of hubbub, right? What do they talk about? Toxic masculinity, kind of crazy.

And then we add into it in there. And then we talk about how politicians like to divide us so they can conquer. Then we get into the fitness part of the episode. The first question was, this person's a competitor, they're already on low calories, and they're already doing a lot of cardio, but they want to burn more body fat. What should they do?

Should they increase their cardio even more or cut their calories even more, which option is better to preserve muscle while getting shredded. The next question was, is fiber the most underappreciated macronutrient or is it the least important? Should it even be considered a macronutrient? Great discussion that part of this episode. And the next question, we've all trained people for a long time and a lot of the people that we've trained

were very successful smart individuals. What is some of the most impactful advice that we've ever gotten from some of these people that has helped us in regards to personal growth? And the final question, what's the worst piece of advice a fellow podcaster has given us about our business. We had a lot of fun on that part of the episode. We love all you guys.

Good times. Also, this month, our flagship foundational workout program, Maps and Obolic, which is excellent for metabolism boosting, muscle building, and strength building is 50% off. All you gotta do is go to mapsfitinistproducts.com, use the code red50-RED50 without a space for that discount of 50% off. Also, a new version will be released soon this month.

If you already have it, or if you're getting it with the 50% off, you will be updated automatically when the new version comes out. Also, all of our other maps programs are on that site as well. We have mass programs for competitors, for sports enthusiasts, for athletes. We have programs for strongman type competitors or people like to work out like strongman, correctional exercise programs, all of them. They're all available at mapsfitinistproducts.com. Dude, so I've seen you post a few times,

and I heard you talking about it yesterday, your boy, is he getting serious about the bulk and you said that you'd be brought that up? I'm trying, so what I'm trying not to do is be super insane about it with them and get too excited because I want them to enjoy the process. Yeah, I want them to feel like a lot of it is his idea. And I want them to feel like it's something he wants to do because, you know,

how easy is I don't know if you guys ever had the experience as a kid where because your dad or someone made you do something so much that it made you not want to do it. That or you do it. And then you resent them later. Yeah. Like I like my I have a buddy who his dad was like a very, very good soccer player when he was a and you know when his dad was younger. So his dad pushed him to play soccer so much that he ended up not liking it and stopped playing. And then as an adult later on in his like mid 30s, he's like, damn, I wish I wish I stayed in it. But my dad pushing me so hard, maybe not want to do it.

So do you, because you are so passionate about training, do you have to find, do you find yourself like holding back and being like, oh, I can be careful, I'm not too excited about. Yeah, like we just, we have conversations. I wait for him to ask me questions and, you know, he's got my, he's got my natural genetics. So he's naturally a skinny kid, right? And so he's asking me about that.

I'm like, you know, you're, were you like my size growing up and we're going back and forth? And I said, well, I remember when I was, and he was asking me about my weight training routine, you know, when I first started and I said, well, I remember when I was, I think 14 over a summer, I went on this like mass gaining bulk protocol. And he's like, would that look like?

I'm like, well, I would eat more food. I was trying to eat more good healthy food. I did a lot of things wrong, which is good for you now because as somebody who's experienced, I know what I did wrong. But I would lift weights. And I said, once I figured things out, I actually gained a decent amount of weight.

And he's like, oh, he goes, Can I go on a bulking protocol and? Singled here You know what I was like I get to do this all over again. Yeah, wait more knowledge. Yes. Oh my god I wish I had me Yeah, when I was a kid so you know what's happening now is you now is, you know, in the morning, we'll wake up for school, or are you diving into nutrition with them right now? Yeah, so, so in the morning, he'll wake up and, you know, I'll give him a breakfast

and be like, is this a bulking breakfast? Is this a bulking? Yeah, so he'll say shit like that. So, you know, right now I'm only training him like twice a week, maybe, and I'm waiting for him to kind of bring it up. So it's not super consistent, although it's getting more consistent.

So I think it's working, you know, it's working perfectly. And so, and then he would ask me like, should I take supplements? And I said, you know, I don't think you need to take supplements. I said, however, a good way to get quality calories in your body sometimes is to use a blender. And so he's asking me about this.

So, well, I said, you have fastened tables like I did. I mean, I'm not exaggerating, okay. The kid can eat 1,500 to 2,000 calories worth of food. If we go to the mall and we'll get something from Chipotle or something from a burger place or whatever, the kid will eat and it reminds me of myself. Just an insane amount.

So he's like, God, he goes, I already eat a lot. He goes, I eat a lot of food. He's ready to grow. Yeah, and I said, well, I said, you do. I said, but you have to do it more consistently. And I said, and you know, an easy way to get more quality calories. And this is just a message for hard gainers

that are out there. So that this really applies it. And there's, by the way, hard gainers aren't as calm and I think as people think, but they do exist. I was one, I know Adam, you know exactly aren't as calm and I think as people think, but they do exist. I was one, I know Adam, you know exactly what that's like. You just, you're like a fucking bottomless pit, you eat and you lift and your body just burns out.

We've shared stories about, I mean, I remember many, many times sitting down and eating like two giant turkey sandwiches and a massive protein gainer shape. Like, you know what I'm saying? And I remember just like biting and washing it down on the shake and biting and washing. I remember so many meals like that and feeling like,

I can't gain weight if my life. And then you go weigh yourself on the scale. You know, and you say half a pound, then you go to the bathroom with that gone. And I, so I said one of the things you can do is, is you could blend, use a blender because it's easier to consume high quality calories that way. So he says, well, what should I do? Should I just, you know, just get those like, get me like, what about all these shakes and stuff? I said, well, some of them are better than others.

And so thankfully, now we're working with smoothie box, which I wish I had smoothie box when I was a kid because here is a shake that you can essentially a shake, right? It's a smoothie that you can make. But if you look at the ingredients, it's food. Yeah. So it's like spinach, avocado, pumpkin seeds, there's cacao nibs, or mandarin pieces, or banana. Sweet potatoes. Sweet potato.

Yeah, like sneak it all in there. It's really, really good. I love how they like, they match like the orange kind of phytonutrients together for the Clementine specifically or it's really smart the way they put it there. It's real food. It's real food and it's not super high calorie, it's like 300 something calories for a shake. So for people who just want to have a breakfast and have a healthy breakfast, it's a good

one. But for my kid, especially if he's already eating a lot and he wants more food and I want to give him quality food, I blend that up for him so I blend it up and I mix it with, now they say, there's that collagen protein in there. Yeah, it's got collagen protein and smoothie box recommends that you use coconut milk

or almond milk, but with him I use regular whole milk. As a say, put some whole milk in there, bump the calories. Exactly, so I buy this really good organic grass fed milk and it's non-homogenized, so it's just really good quality. So I put it in the blender, I add that in there, put about a cup and a half of that in there, plus the smoothie box, plus the collagen protein,

which is a good healthy source of protein for anybody. Blend it up and then he has it and he feels cool because now he gets to have like, this is a shake next to the day. Yeah, you know, because I remember what that's like too. I just feel like you're having a magic potion. Is there, is there, I know you're probably like

waiting on this, but is there any bit of you that's like, I kind of want him to go through a little bit of a right of passage, like, the raw eggs, you know, and like watching Rocky. I just could see that. You know, it's funny, I thought I think about stuff like that, like the stuff eggs, you know, and like watching Rocky. I just could see that. You know, it's funny. I thought I think about stuff like that, like the stuff that I would do.

And I think of it fondly, but I also realized the fucking dysfunction horrible. Yeah. It's a better not experience. Yeah, like sit there with him over the sink. Put a pound those raw eggs, boy. You want to put that back in your mouth? I go for a run.

Yeah, no, I'm cool with that. But anyway, it's fun because, you know, now we have this quality things that we can, that I can provide to him because when I was a kid, it was Gainer's Fuel, you know, 2000 or Mega Mass 5000. It was, it was multi-dextrin and shit. You literally just, you just shit it out like an hour later. An hour later, it's just coming right out of you.

Dude, I used to blend. I bought, and back in the day, the way they'd get you to buy their gainer shakes was just a bigger number. So it would start off with, I'd be like, have you wait gainer, I remember the first gainer, it's about a hundred. Yeah, 900 was the number. And then it got to 1500, and then it was 2000.

And then, uh, starts in the cylinder, and then it becomes a tub, then it becomes a huge fucking bag. Yes, it's like a dog food bag. Yes, it's like a sandbox. You know, big old, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, looked this up, go on Google and look this up, it was a bucket, like a paint bucket. Like a legit bucket size. Yes, like my dad saved it afterward

and would put like nails and shittin' it. I'm serious. It was a bucket, it was massive. It's handy. And then in the bucket you break open the lid and there'd be a, not a scoop. It was like a cup. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Which, you know the irony in all of this is like that. It just made your bigger. So that was like the, I mean, you could just take four scoops of the regular. Yeah, there it is. So I would take this big scoop and you was supposed to use four scoops of it with like,

I don't remember how much it was, like 20 ounces of whole milk, which is where you get one of the calories. And then you blend it, and the blender would do this. You turn the blender off and it'd go, booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo And I I this is how I develop my like skills to like pound food as I sit there with this shake of this big old, you know blender just swallow it and sit there Yeah, we wonder why we're all intolerant to Weird and then you know what I used to do. I swear to God. This is a true story

I would sit in my dad's lazy boy after I'd pound it and I lay back I put the legs up and I lay back and I lay there for a good 20 minutes trying not to throw up. So, yeah, I remember that in class, like just the bubble guts going and like, you're just trying to ride it out. You know, the worst part is it was so audible. You sit there and there'd be a quiet moment where the teacher would stop talking,

but, I gotta tell this story again. I told the story a long time ago in our early episodes. So a lot of our listeners haven't heard this. I had bought, at the time, advertising, all the bodybuilding magazines were basically huge brochures for supplements. That's all they were. You'd go through them and there'd be a few articles and there'd be like 15 pages vads. And one of the ads was for a supplement, a powder called, heavyweight gainer 900. I think it was heavyweight gainer 900.

It was a name of it. called heavyweight gainer 900. I think it was heavyweight gainer 900, it was a name of it. And it set on it that it was like breakthrough, protein matrix and special fats. This is the first time I ever heard of MCTs, medium chain triglycerides, that help you burn fat rather than store it.

It was a lean gainer, you're just gonna gain muscle mass. And the ad was really convincing. So I bought this stuff and it gave me diarrhea every time. Like every single time, but I thought, you know, so sold on it, right? So we were going to the pool one day with my family. I don't know if you guys remember the story.

I told you guys a while ago. And I pounded a 900 calorie and it was strawberry, by the way, which just tasted nothing like strawberry. It was pink. It was strawberry color. That's all. And I pounded the shake and then we go swimming. So we're out there and I'm probably I think I'm 14 or 15 years old and we're swimming in the pool hanging out and then it hits me. Oh shit. Oh, I got it. This is you shit in the pool. No. No dude. I'm like this is gonna happen So I freaking get out of the pool and I run over the bathroom, but it was single-use bathrooms So someone's in the bathroom, so I'm sitting there and I'm kind of cold, you know a little bit shaking

Which makes it hard to keep everything clenched and I'm knock on the door, you know One minute, you know I had to wait a good I had to wait a good five minutes and during that five minutes of waiting, I almost let it out a couple times. So as soon as they open the door, I jam in their locked the door, turn around, and I'm trying to get my bathing suit off, but because it was wet, the strings are all tight. The string was all tight, and I pulled the wrong end and made a knot. You know what I'm talking about? We pulled the loop out? Yeah, I can't. I can't fucking do it. So finally, it's just, it started happening.

I could just start it coming out. So I literally grabbed the bottoms of my shorts and I pulled them so hard, I ripped them down and just went nuts all over the toilet. Got it on my bathing suit. Got it on the fuck everywhere. And then I'm a 14 year old kid, I'm in the bathroom now. Yes, so what do you do?

The aftermath of that. Oh, do you get out of that? A lot of toilet paper. I was gonna say you probably rinsed in the sink. Use the sink, and I walked out, and I just, you know, a Sunday. Shredded ass. Yeah, and I just sunbated the rest of the,

yeah, I don't wanna go in the pool anymore. Fucking terrible. I wish I had smoothie box back then. that's a great time yeah yeah yeah I have it he's asking me to about if there's anything he he should do before he works out to give him energy and I'm like no although I thought about the red juice but I don't know if that's appropriate for a kid because of the the Rodeola, but it's no stimulant right? I actually just gave some to my friend and Every now and then to all I try really hard not to give my friends advice like especially like work out fitness advice I just can't like fuck those guys, you know like well

I just don't want to be the guy because I know that I do that for a living it and I want them to want to ask me You know, it's like no, I'm the same way. It's one of those things where I'm like, I always feel like every time I'm at a family function or I'm hanging out with my friends, I just want to hang out. I don't want to be the guy that has all the answers for them. But my friend was like, he had been doing a lot of endurance as of late

and so he's all this stuff for conditioning and just wants to move better, but like he's realizing, like I need to get, I need to get like more size. And like I wanna approach that and actually lift, you know, heavier weights and stuff. So I've been helping him with that, but. So yeah, I had him, actually had it in my house.

I hadn't been using the, the red juice as much as like the green and gold. So I gave him that and I'm like, here, you can try this for, you know, like a pre workout. I'll give you a good amount of injury. You like it? He loves it. He came back to me and he's like, dude, this is really helped.

Because he used to take a monster or he would drink one of these crazy energy crack drinks. So this has helped. And again, this is the same one I think I might have mentioned a while back that just adding in, you know, some, like, even if it's a powdered form of like a vegetable or fruit is like, it's like a huge thing in his diet. So, his body was just like, you know, responding to it and like, I'll energize. And I'm like, yeah, so some people like that that have, you know, relied a lot on the artificial stimulants and things like that. I think it would really do well. Well, Doug brought up the ingredients of the organifi red juice.

Pomegranate juice powder, cranberry, blueberry, raspberry, strawberry. Is that beetroot? Yeah, beetroot. That's the big one. Yeah. Beetroot, cordiceps and raishi, which are both, I really love those. Rodeola, which some people can find stimulating. So I think that's where people get the energy. Yeah, have you guys seen the studies on power and beats? It's one of the most legit ways to increase natric oxide and increase endurance. It's actually one of the only ways

that is actually supported by studies. So when you look at studies, when you see supplements that are like, give you more natric oxide, better pump, they don't really have anything supporting them. There's very few things that actually have science supporting them. Beetroot powder or beets actually does do that. Do you know what dose? That's a good question. I don't know. Yeah, I'd be interested in this. I mean, I think your best bet is probably,

I would think to eat beets, just to eat actual beats. I hate to taste them, by the way. Well, it's always that one, right. But I wonder if eating beats is what they did in the study or if it was a more of a concentrated version. Like, I wonder if there's, because I forgot with the, there's something in beats that there's a compound in the beats that causes the boosting of the nitric oxide.

And I wonder if you need to have it in concentrated form. You don't like beats in your salad? I hate beats. Oh, I like it. Besides fresh beats. I don't know if they're in there, but yeah. I don't like, I don't like how people serve them for Thanksgiving, like just kind of straight, you know?

I like to have them shredded in my salad, or I think they're really good in salad. You ever here had like a chocolate cake with beats? No. Next in. There's actually like a recipe for that. It's weird, but it's good. Beat cake?

Yeah, beat cake. Oh, that's interesting. It's really weird. That sounds like a hip for that. It's weird, but it's good. Beat cake? Yeah, beat cake. Oh, that's interesting. It's really weird. That sounds like a hip hop song from the 80s. Yo, yo, on beat cakes. Yeah, that's bringing you the hot. That's just the top thing. That's my other way.

I had another one. Beat cake. Just now. Keep acquiring all these hip hop hands. Everybody put your hands together for beat cakes, butterball. He kicked butterball. Hit the mic. Hit the mic. Oh, shit. Yeah. Requiring all these hip hop hashtags. Everybody put your hands together for beat cakes but a ball Hit the mic Yeah, oh see there's a study right there. So it's beat root juice supplementation on

Cardio respiratory endurance and athlete. Yeah athlete endurance are endurance athlete. Excuse me endurance athletes are the ones that are going crazy Is that pub med you just pulled up done? Yeah It looks like the I which is a national what is done? Yeah. Yeah. It looks like. NCBI which is a national, what is it? Yeah. I'm not sure. It's legit. It's legit. I would NCBI.

Yeah, I would, we should put that in the show notes. That study was in January of 2017 that they published it. What are the results say in the, Wow, it's that recent, huh? It was a big deal in the endurance world. I remember, because I kind of read, I like to read things about all athletes, just see if there's any applications.

I think that's where I came across it was in the performance aspects of it. Yeah, it's one of the only things you can take that will legit like raise, not trick oxide. You know, they said for a long time, Argonine did that and not really Citroëlean, better than Argonine, but beetroot juice kicks the shit out of all those things in terms of raising nitric oxide.

That's interesting. Now, are most the supplements that are coming out now that are like, you know, the NO claim? Is it, are they all having, I would assume with a study like this now out that they would all have beet juice and or beet powder inside the stuff. It's becoming a thing now in the muscle building world

for sure. Yeah, but it wasn't before. No, no, no, no. It was just straight nitric oxide, which is what I used to always tell people, it's like we have no studies to show that that actually elevates in your system. It's another one of those things

where just because you take it doesn't necessarily mean that it elevates it into your system. Well, the original studies with Argonine were intravenous which that's a big difference. There's a big difference to get an application. Who's doing that? Yeah and it's got to go through your gut and all that process so have you guys ever had so many eaten so many beets that you think that your kidneys are bad or something? Because you poop blood. Or pee it? It looks like blood. No I don't know if I want to take that challenge. That's actually that's that happened to me when I was a kid

Yeah, yeah Shit ton of beats and then peed and thought I'm dying You know what I'm saying you always you still there like hold on a second don't tell me if you didn't pee red You wouldn't think some shit's happened. Yeah, I don't know if I had that much to I don't I don't remember like I ate like a blue Slurpee and then I shit like black or something. Oh my scared me. Yeah, I don't know if I had that much to I don't I don't feel like I ate like a blue Slurpy and then I shit like black or something scared me. Yeah, scary real bad. I had a that's the charcoal will do that. I can make charcoal. Yeah, yeah, charcoal. Yeah, charcoal do that, which I've had to tell a few people that that because we've talked about that for the alcohol, you know, hack where you have to to when you start drinking to before bed and a bunch of water, like the next morning, like, you know, be ready for your toilet to be.

Like black. So I, I, I fucked with my cousin like that. He was, he was asking me like, what should I do to prevent hangover or whatever? So I told him to activate a charcoal. I said, but I said, pay attention to a rare side effect where. Oh God, you did not.

And I said, and so I told him that you'll have like black tary stool and it could mean that you have internal bleeding What with lots of parasites. I got a phone call the next day from him So did you did you guys see that everybody's sharing it all over social media that Gillette ad? Oh man, is that r that referencing some feathers right now? I actually shared in my story Ben Shapiro's writeup on it. I thought of all the things that I've seen on it. I thought the way he wrote about it was best.

Because Justin, Justin, before you got here this morning, Justin and I were talking about this. Yeah. And, you know, and Courtney and him were kind of getting into it a little bit over it, like just kind of from her perspective. And, you know, it is, it's a challenging thing to come out and just straight up challenge.

I think our boy over at Ryan, over at Order of Man, you know, kind of came after it right away. But it's a sensitive thing to just attack without like explaining. And I thought Shapiro did a really good job. He did. I fully agree with what he said in the art. It's in your, it's in Adam's, uh, Insta story. And maybe we should post it again so people will put in the show notes. So it should, this goes up today, right, Doug? Tomorrow. So it'll be, it'll be up there. Yeah, it should be,

well, maybe not. Maybe it'll be, it'll just be, well, yeah, and I, well, that'll teach you guys to pay for this. I like to assess, you know, like, what, where my first reaction, I have to like, check myself on my first reaction, because I could get into a train of thought that I'm constantly feeding to where I feel like, you know, masculinity's under attack, or like, men are under attack, or, you know,

and just trying to kind of peel back and look how somebody else sees it. And so there was definitely a difference of opinion, you know, looking at the message. If you're looking at it straight and just watching the video, I could see how like there's a lot of obvious things that everybody agrees on, you know, like nobody likes to see bullying, nobody likes to see sexual harassment, nobody likes these things. I think a little further ahead with who's providing the message. Where this is affecting society in terms of polarizing everybody and creating the undetended consequences

of a lot of this in terms of how men and women interact. I mean, it's very deep, but if you're just watching a video and being like, yeah, I like, I could see how somebody would be like, yeah, that's a great message. Well, what these companies do is they try to monetize virtue signaling. Yes, companies have been doing that.

That's right, I see immediately. Yeah, companies have been doing that forever, right? They love your body, campaign for dove, or, you know, we hate men that, you know, hit other people, like, okay, obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. It is that obvious, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hate the term, here's what I don't like.

I don't like the term toxic masculinity. I understand what they're talking about when they say that. So did they actually say that, or is that in a write-up? Because it wasn't in the video. No, it say that or is that in a write-up? Cause it wasn't in the video. No, it wasn't in the videos in the write-up. I don't like that term because they're blaming, they're calling it masculinity and they're saying it's toxic.

And you know, the reality is if you wanna really be accurate, if you look at all of these cases of people and especially men who may commit violent crimes, who do things that may be labeled under toxic mask and everything from bullying to sexual harassment to, you know, again, like I said, crime, what you'll find is that's most common among these cases is that these were men who did not have a male role model

that didn't have a father. And now we're now like two or three generations deep into a society where in some cases, three quarters in some societies, three quarters of the boys or children, but we're just talking about males now, the boys are raised without fathers. And in other cases it's half,

or maybe a little less than half, before that it was very, very small. So when people say toxic masculinity, the reason why I hate that is because they make it sound like it's too much masculinity, which is actually not true. It's not enough masculinity. And when I use the term masculinity,

I mean healthy masculinity, and we're lacking, we don't have men are not as involved as they used to be. When you look at, just generally, when you look at most divorces, right? Let's just say half of all marriages end in divorce. A good chunk of those, the father really reduces his contact with the children. And most single parents or mothers without the father.

And so what we're seeing this, what's happening is generations of children and boys in particular being raised without dads. And that's what you end up getting. And so it's massive problem. And so rather than blaming men, first off, if you ever blame anybody for an action, the only person you can blame

is the individual who caused the action. Ever. So that's number one. But number two, if you ever want to blame something that's happening in society for the rise of something, especially like this, there's been less masculinity. Not more. We need more fathers. We need more role models. We need more of that because the person who I looked to on how to be a man for me was my dad. And my dad taught me to be a respectful person to not

harass people, to not be a bully and all that shit. So right, to elevate, win, acknowledge, like it's, all those things need to be passed on and modeled. And I mean, it's a great point. It needs to, like that, that role needs to be filled with a good example of, you know, a masculine male role model. And I think that, that that's something like it's being snuffed to where like it's categorized as all masculinity now.

We need to just take it all out. This is why I like the Warren Farrell interview we did. This is one of my favorite interviews this past year that we did. I thought the way that he presented the information was really, really good. And if you're listening right now, you did not listen to the Warren Farrell episode.

I think that's an incredible episode along the lines that we're talking about. Yeah, you know, for me, the other thing too is I think we're getting a lot of pushback because it feels like it's open season against men. Yeah. Men, it feels like we're getting blamed for everything. You know, it's okay to say that men are the problem.

It's okay to say that masculinity is a problem. It's okay to say that men are the reason why we have all these issues. We live in this oppressive patriarchy, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's not, it's just, not true. It just isn't. Now, there's been oppressive times through society, but it's been oppressive for everybody,

not just for women. It's also been oppressive for men. And I don't like to, I don't wanna keep a tally because I can sit here and tally off all the shit that men tend to suffer more than women, all that other shit and vice versa and all that stuff. That's not the point. At the end of the day though, it's collectivizing everybody not looking at people as individuals. And that's always a problem. It's always it's always been a problem. You know what that's called? It's

called sexism. It's called racism. It's called, you know, anytime you collectivize any people into a group and give each of those individuals a character You know and you say that they all have the characteristics of the group you run into problems every single time because I know individual man who are far more feminine than some individual women You know Yeah, it's silly to me so but yeah, Gillette's doing this because they're they're monetizing their virtues That's the I don't know that I don't know if it's a good strategy though. Somebody just sent literally, because I did that post, the write-up that Shapiro did and someone sent me a meme back, and it's like a guy standing in front of a chess board and

it says, Gillette attacks their one in only demographic outstanding move. It is interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. Like, I just, yeah, I have a problem when because you know that Inevitably they're gonna get a lot more eyes lot more attention like this is a strategy you see companies really like taking on now to be able to Profit off of and it's it's it's gross to me It it if it was if it was part of a charitable it's always side of charitable side of the company that doesn't get highlighted, I'm way more supportive of that. And here's the thing. Of course, the main theme of the

video, stand up to things that you think are wrong. I support that 100%. If I see something, I'm going to fucking say something about it. And I expect, you know, people around me to do the same, but it, there's a lot more to, to where we're at, you know, in the climate of, of society to where like it, like back in the day, like, the, you Well, I think, I think, I think, with something like this, I think, this, look, I'm not an advertising executive, okay? So maybe they're, maybe they're right. Maybe it's the work for them. I don't think it will, but maybe it will.

But it could have been more of a positive thing. It will, it's just like the Nike move. The Nike move was cappernick, same thing. Yeah. Yeah, no, it worked very similar. No, it worked, it worked. No, no, no, no, that did work because Nike's demographic was, that, that cartoon you just read or whatever is true.

Yeah. When you're watching it as a man, it makes you feel like blamed rather than saying, Hey, man, why don't you do this? Be awesome doing this or, you know, raise your kids or whatever. Men watching that would be like, yeah, rather than being like, hey, here's some. Now that's a video, yeah, I would create. Yeah, it's like a highlight. What a good representation is of a man.

And let's celebrate that. Well, playing Devils advocate, you guys would make that and it wouldn't get shared as much, wouldn't get talked about as much. And so from an advertising perspective, your ad would do not as well. And see that's the gross side that I see immediately. Yeah, maybe. We'll see see we'll see what happens to their

And that's the great thing about the market you can come out and try shit all you want people will argue about it Whatever at the end of the day we'll we'll we'll know who was right, you know Whether I may disagree, but at the end of the day if they sell more shit Well, the old saying goes, you know the. The old saying goes, you know, the bad pub is good pub. You know, so right now, we're all talking about, I mean, in the last five years, when have you ever mentioned Gillette in a conversation? Ever.

Exactly. So, I mean, too. But the unfortunate things, we keep feeding it. Right. This is what we see everybody doing now. Is this so sick of this shit? Is this why you're't you're not shaving any more just yeah, I was like, you weird like, yeah, I was like

growing a beard and I'm like, well, I guess I'm just can keep going now. I just had it's because I had his coordinate feel about the beard. I know you in the past, she's like the sandpaper. You know, there's like a certain length that she must really like it after the Gillette. Well, that's the thing is like she was just confused at like my reaction initial reaction to the video. A little standoff in the Andrews house right now. Yeah, but, but, but no, but I was

able to kind of have a long form conversation and dress it up to like, you know, why there's a lot more to it. And so she actually understands now and like gets it where I'm coming from. And I'm trying to, I'm trying to also deconstruct my initial reaction to it and see positive in it as well. So there needs to be both of that. I wonder if, because this is what the politics does, this is what the two sides do.

And they do this very well. And they play, they play us very well. And they play us very well. I get played all the time, and I realize it later. What if, and here's why they do it, by the way, when they piss you off, they can, it's easier to get someone to vote for you because they hate the other side, than it is to get them to vote for you

because they like you. This politicians in, have known this forever. Like, if I'm sitting here and I'm debating with, me and Justin are both politicians and we're trying to get your vote. And Justin is talking about how great he is and all the things he's gonna do.

And I talk about how shitty he is, how bad he is, how he cheated on this person, how he stole money here, whatever. Yeah, you're gonna win. I'm gonna win. And they've known this for a long time. So I wonder if this commercial just comes out and because the climate has been around

masculine and right. Totally. If the conservative side is saying this to say, Hey, everybody, you should be pissed off about this. Now we're all getting pissed off. I wonder if I would have gotten this pissed off if I was just watching TV and he saw the commercial. Right. It would have been raging me as well. Exactly. No, it wouldn't because Justin made that. That was the point he was making when we were talking before. He's like, you know, when you listen to the commercial and you actually see it, it's not a big deal. But it's because of what it's done. It's again divided us.

And so it's caused all this controversy. Our defenses are up. Right. It also, because people are going on both extremes, it's caused a line in the sand. And you have to choose, you know. And there's some fortunate, because like even I was watching the video again

and I see like most of it, I'm like, okay, yeah, I, you know, I didn't really have as much of a problem with as I kept watching it, but there's this one where the guy's like, he sees a girl he's attracted to, he starts walking towards her and the guy like grabs him right away and like pulls him away like, no.

And I'm like, that is like, what? Like, are we gonna cut out all normal interactions of like being attracted to the opposite sex? Like I can't approach a woman and tell her that you look beautiful today. Yeah, because I'm scared that it's gonna be interpreted as harassment. That's what you've created because of this.

Yeah, that part of the commercial is kind of weird because you didn't really do anything. No, I think it was a look on his face though. It was kind of like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's what they were trying to. But I mean, yeah, whatever. I mean, I just, that's where I like,

I see, I see all of this is, it becomes like, you're the enemy, you're the enemy, you're the enemy. And now the interaction between the two is so fucking awkward because of what's happened. Yeah, I got pointed out to me, this got pointed out to me on our forum a little while ago and I thought it was brilliant.

There was this huge debate about, I don't remember what it was, it was a tweet and it was somebody just said something that was just absurd and it was somebody on the left that said something absurd. And so there's this huge debate on the forum and one of the guys on there, I don't remember who it was. And so there's this huge debate on the forum. And one of the guys on there, I don't remember who it was. I remember this commented and he goes, you know, he goes,

there's a, because of social media, anybody can say anything. And I wonder if the opposite side pulls out the craziest shit. Right. Totally. And then, and then uses that to, to fire their side up against the other side. And I said, whoa. A hundred percent. That's true. It's absolutely true. Because I bet I could go on Twitter and find some random asshole who on his thing says, you know, hardcore conservative

and then makes like a racist treat. And I could pull that and I could share it and everybody like, that's what conservatives are like. We're pissed off. Or, you know, some. We're red hats in the racist. Yeah, or some, you know, whatever, right? Or some liberal person was like,

we need communism, it's your only way to whatever. And everybody's like, Yeah, chick, very sure. Yeah, you. So I think a lot of that might be happening. Like these commercials and stuff, like I wonder if they're really that big of a deal or if we're told-

Right, if we weren't right, if people didn't, if a bunch of people didn't write up about it and you just watched the commercials. I would have rolled my eyes, it's all I would have watched them play whatever. Yeah, whatever. You wouldn't have thought nothing of it. They're big, obvious. Yeah. That's what I meant. Like that's why I compared it to the cavernic thing is that we, and same thing with cavernic, just him not, him making the stand for something that he believes in,

whatever to, to, I'm all pro that, you know what I'm saying? And then, and then it fell, letting him go because I'm also pro that I support that, that whole idea. But because we divided us and said you got to choose a side either you're defines you right right either either either one You're for the flag, you know, and you're just right or you're or you're somebody who's for for black people Yeah, I don't have a choice. I mean for the flag I'm my only option for the flag room for black people. I can't be for both You know, like I had to choose a side which is so lame to me. Yeah, it is That's such a good point. It is God. We need to start doing this more on everything

We need to pull shit and be like do we really care? Yeah, isn't that big of a deal? No, I don't know I really fucking shave your beard. I don't give a shit Like we're always cool with people in person Yeah, like we can work things out as long as, and I feel the more the problem is that we just don't interact with people the way we used to. It's like all virtually and so yeah, the most inflammatory people get the most attention. Period. Period.

Because if I say some normal regular shit, like if I did a tweet today and I'm like, Hey, you know, most people are pretty cool. You know, and you know, things are going pretty good right now. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, nobody cares about anything. Look at this shit, red-headed people of the worst, whatever.

Oh my God, look at this guy said, and they share it all over the place. That's exactly what's happening. And they spend, and that's the game, that's the game. And that's, because I want people to realize this, okay? Realize this right now. The last presidential election, just the election. And this is the, coming up to getting you to devote

for the president, okay? A billion dollars, a billion dollars was spent on getting the president elected or are just on the whole election process, not just on him but on the both sides, right? That doesn't count the rest of the time, like before the election, where they're always spending money. All the smoothing going on.

Always spending money to get you to believe one thing or another, and you can't tell me with all that money, they're not doing all their fucking research. You can't tell me they're not hiring the most brilliant advertising, you know, people, the most brilliant psychologists. They literally, this is true. They would literally have test groups

and they'll have a test group sit in a room of undecided voters, for example. And they'll all have, so these are people who are kind of on the fence between Republican and Democrat. And they'll have them sit down. And they'll say, okay, we want to start, you know, we think we might want to need to go to war with this country. Here's the different terms we're going to use to describe the situation over there. You know, we're going to say that gonna say that they're hurting children. Is that piss you off and people will vote? We're gonna say that.

And they'll come up with terminology. And then that they find the test groups to be the most effective. And then what you'll find is miraculously, all of a sudden, all the politicians on that side use the same terminology, like weapons of mass destruction. All of a sudden everybody was saying the same fucking thing. And why? Because they did test groups

and they found that that really got people scared. And so all this money gets spent on this stuff, so it only makes sense. So I'm pretty sure that they're scouring Twitter and they're scouring the internet. And they're like, oh, this, and our test groups, this really fucking pissed them off and made them hate liberals

or made them hate conservative. Let's do an article on this and talk about how the fucking ruining the country put this out there and next thing you know, it goes absolutely insane. So yeah, we gotta be more aware of that. We call it Today's calls brought to you by Max and Obolic if you're looking to maximize your overall muscle and strength Maths and the ball is the perfect place to start with a full 30-day money back guarantee. There is absolutely zero risk So what is your waiting for go to my promenade.com and get started today?

Eagerness landed Come in here, I come and get started today! It's the motherfucking world! An eagle has landed! Que coi... First question is from RESFI. Our boy. Right. Shredded. So when you're already very low on calories and doing a good amount of cardio after being on a diet for a while, what's more effective for losing fat and retaining muscle?

More cardio or fewer calories, considering they equal the same daily caloric deficit and also eating the same amount of protein. Okay. This is a really interesting question. So where do you go from here basically? What are you saying? I'm already eating low calories. I'm already doing a decent amount of cardio, but I want to keep getting leaner. Do I add cardio or do I cut calories? God. What would you do with your people at them when you hit the situation?

That's why I wanted to do this question because I think there's a lot of different scenarios that would dictate what I would say or what I would do. And that really, like when he says, I'm already eating low calorie, like my question would be how low calorie Because I would always rather take calories away Or increase normal movement like neat or through

More volume in my training before cardio cardio in my opinion is The last place that I want to go now that doesn't mean that I haven't had to go there because if you are that low of calorie where I'm now not even giving my body a sufficient amount of nutrients to maintain my lean body mass, then I'm going to probably add little bits of cardio in there. But I would always rather do it through neat or through reducing the calories.

And so it would matter where that person is. And I've had like, you know, a bikini competitor that I'd be training and she's down to as low as like 1300 calories. At that point, I don't wanna take any more calories from you. I would rather create more movement to create more of a deficit. So in that case, I would probably add more cardio, even though technically I would probably

add just more steps and movement is what I would do over cardio, so or less, you know, so something that very low, low impact. You don't want to stress the body anymore. Right, right. I don't, we don't, I mean, when you're trying to hang on to as much muscle as possible, you're extremely low calorie. And then if you, in cardio, quote unquote, cardio would be, you pushing your heart rate

to your cardio threshold. And that is like, that's, that's high enough intensity that you're gonna send a signal to the body that's not advantageous for it to have this muscle mass on it. So I would not want to add cardio. That would be the very last resort. I would go more step walking, you know, just tell them to walk more to create more of a deficit, or I would cut calories.

And I would cut calories first if I had room, but if I'm already at my lowest, lowest amount for me to even hit my macronutrient targets that I need to hang onto that lean body mass, then I'm going to go with just more movement. Yeah, because I've seen people literally go down to, their calories are so low, where most of all they eat is protein, which is, which you'll lose muscle if you do that. And you'll just feel like, absolutely shit.

Here's something that I, now here, look, I've never competed and I've worked with very, very few competitors pre-contest. I have worked with competitors, but it's always after a contest and to help them, you know, repair metabolism, quote unquote, contest and to help them, you know, repair metabolism, quote unquote, or just help them get, you know, healthy and normal. But for myself, when I've gotten

really shredded and I've gotten down to single-digit body fat percentages many times and the lowest I've ever gotten was probably close to 4%. What helped me what and I did get to this point my calories were low. I was already doing cardio and I wanted to get even leader and one of the best things I ever did was just trigger sessions. I trigger sessions were and here's why I like doing trigger sessions to burn more calories because they tend to be muscle stimulating rather than muscle burning and they also burn calories right so it's still activity, but it's an activity that sends a muscle building signal.

And so, and you're not doing a ton of damage. No, no. That's why I would rather walk or increase volume of training. Yeah. Because walking or increasing volume of training, I think there's more likely you're going to keep your lean body mass opposed to just adding more cardio. And I don't know.

I haven't been watching Arya. I know he just came off. I was watching him a few weeks ago. He's been, he just came off one of his biggest bulk said he's ever done. I think he got his body weight up to like two. Yeah, he's bigger than he's ever been before and now he's cutting down. And I would have liked to got a hold of him right then when he made that transition and find an assess

where he's at, movement wise, assess where he's at, calorie wise, assess where he's at, training volume wise, and then give him advice from there because where we're taking this question off from is a very tough one because I wouldn't want you to get to this position, like where you're already doing a ton of cardio, you're already extremely locale and then you're asking a question like that.

A rock in a hard place. If I'm a good coach, I've got you down to this point without any cardio. I mean, this is how I've coached all my athletes is for competing, right, for physique or bikini or bodybuildingbuilding is always been to, you know, we figure out how many steps there are before we start the cut, okay? And just, let's say, for hypothetical reasons, because the average is around four, let's just say you're at 5,000 or 6,000 steps a day, and you're at X amount of calories. The very first thing I'm going to do is just slightly reduce the chloric intake,

just a little bit. You're coming off a bulk, so you're probably eating a massive surplus. So I don't need to go way the other direction. I'm just going to cut maybe 500 calories a day and then give you a very small increase in movement and steps, like maybe a thousand more steps per day.

So that person goes from six to 7,000. So now they're at 7,000. They also have a calorie deficit. Now I'm going to ride that for a week or two or however long I can get of you just slowly leaning out from that. And then when I start to see their their body slow up as far as Results and change that I'm going to I'm going to bring the calories down a tiny bit more again and then also increase their steps again And I'm going to play this game all the way until we're almost down to stage time and as long as I can game all the way until we're almost down to stage time. And as long as I can, before it gets to a point where they're just like, okay, Adam,

I am having a hard time getting that many steps in without getting on a piece of equipment and moving at a little bit faster pace or scheduling that into my day. And that's when cardio now gets introduced into our programming. And some clients are really good at adhering to this. And others, it's been a challenge for me. I think Melissa was one of the last ones that I coached that I thought did this just she did it perfect. And we would head into every one of her shows. The last week or two would be the first time that she really get into get on a treadmill or get on some cardio. But everything else was manipulated through just more steps, more movement, and

then training volume and then calories. So hypothetically speaking, let's say right now he's doing, let's say he says he's doing a good amount of cardio. So let's say he's doing 45 minutes a day of cardio, maybe two sessions, like 20 minutes of morning, 25 minutes at night. His calories, he says they're already low. So let's just take his word for it, they're already pretty low.

What if he did something like this, rather than doing more cardio and cutting calories and he's they're already low. So let's just take his word for it, they're already pretty low. What if he did something like this, rather than doing more cardio and cutting calories, and he's already working out, so he's lifting. What if he just added every day, an eight or 10 minute trigger session, you know, in the daytime and an eight or 10 minute trigger session in the evening, which would essentially give him another 16

to 20 total minutes of activity. Right. But it's a trigger session. He's using bands. He's getting a pump. He's feeling the muscles work. It facilitates recovery.

He can target different body parts if he wants to. How would, what about something like that? Yeah, no, I like that because I've recommended, I've recommended things like this where I'll tell them to go for like a hike for like a half hour or an hour and go for a walk, right? It's a walk. And, you know, every quarter mile or every X amount of minutes that you're walking get down do some pushups do some squat It's really a trick. Yeah, I grab it like there's I've had a lot of clients that have like those little parks nearby their house They have the pull-up bars and have like these little things and I'll tell them to walk laps and every time they come around on the lap You know do you know 15 15 squats do 10 10 pull-ups, do whatever push-ups,

and then get back to your walk, and just kinda do that for, and why I like doing that with the walking is it's gonna definitely create that caloric deficit that you're gonna need if you're gonna keep leaning out. Plus, we're doing like a trigger session like you're alluding to right now, so we're stimulating that response of,

hey, we need this muscle. Especially a guy like Arya, he's got such good muscle building genetics. I mean, he's one of the, he's a, is a natural physique competitor. And the guy looks insane. I bet if you did trigger sessions throughout the day, focusing on those body parts, they probably come up. So that's another good point that you just bring up. And that's how this advice also changes who I'm talking to. So, um, X from a mine, um, competed in physique. And she had, she had this, an unbelievable ability to touch weights and muscle just built on her. And for the, but for the life of her, she had such a hard time leaning out. And so that body type,

that person who just hangs on the muscle and has no problem building it. I wouldn't cardio the fuck out of it. I would cardio the fuck out of this person. So that's a really good point and thought pertaining to this question that this is where there is an individual variance is, if I'm talking to somebody who like my body type, I look at a treadmill and fucking wait falls off of me. It's crazy. I mean, at all, I am too low calorie-wise.

I'm not getting enough nutrients. And if I'm doing any sort of muscle, go off right with it. Just as fast as I'll lean out, I'll lose muscles. Just my body type. I'm not built that way. And so if I have a client who's like me in that I'm scared of death of cardio,

I'm trying to create walking movement trigger sessions, everything through nutrition that I can without getting on a treadmill because my body responds that way. Now, the opposite is true when I have somebody who has a real hard time leaning out, they barely touch weights, they build muscle, they seem to always have that muscle on them, but it's really hard for them to lose body fat.

That person, they're probably somebody who I can push cardio wise, a little more and not be so worried about them losing muscle. Next question is from Levi Benson. Is fiber the most underappreciated macronutrient or is it the least important? Ooh, I like this. Yeah, that's a good question. I know that the people, even like Lane Norton, who's a proponent of IIF-YM,

he also gives his people fiber requirements or fiber. He considers it to be almost a macro nutrient. Like, you have your proteins, fats, and carbs. I do too. And he tells people to have a personal... I do too, and I'll tell you why. I mean, aside from the role that it plays with your metabolism, it's definitely something, and I pieced this together

when I got into competing and I started coaching a lot of my competitors, it's a very, very common thing for people to lack enough fiber, especially when they eat really clean. When they eat really clean, and if they're not, like incorporating a lot of berries and fruit and high-fibreous foods, it's really easy to be under, coming in under your minimum fiber intake every single day.

And what I've noticed, that what it results in. So if you don't get enough fiber, you tend to, your stool is not regular, you tend to hold on to water. And what ends up happening is you get this kind of mental fuck because You're not dropping weight the way you should be based off of your core deficit because you're not also shitting regularly And what would happen is I would see some and I would I would be watching someone's diet and be like okay They've missed two three days in a row of their fiber intake and then they're sending me their they're weekly update of their pictures Or showing me their scale and their weight and they're not moving, they're going with the fuck's going on.

And then I'd be like, Hey, I want you to have like two cups of berries today or have a bunch of spinach or I'd put I'd put something in their diet to shoot their fiber away up and then it's low and behold, all of a sudden they poop multiple times and all of a sudden their weight would drop and then they would almost pretty obvious that it's a very vital component to, you know, your digestive track and moving things along and helping out like your intestines and making sure everything's healthy within that whole process. But I was trying to think, like, I remember having, we had the carnivore diet doctor on, right? Sean Baker. Sean Baker. He was the only one that I, besides him, and maybe the IFYM crowd,

like probably doesn't consider it quite as important as most people would, who just have a regular balanced diet. But I was trying to remember his argument for the fact that fiber is somewhat overrated in terms of what it's actually providing nutrient-wise. Yeah, do you remember what his argument was? Yeah, he said, what's not essential? Okay, can you get away with not eating fiber? Yeah, you can get away with it. Is it optimal?

No. Studies are pretty, there have been a lot of studies done on fiber and they all show that eating a diet that's high in quality fiber, both soluble and insoluble fiber. Benefits your health in many different ways improves longevity, reduces heart disease risk, lowers bad cholesterol, helps prevent things like diabetes. So it's something that you should probably be consuming if feeds the gut microbiome. Certain fibers are essential to feed the healthy bacteria that's in your gut.

So you don't want to starve those out because those are also very important. And studies anthropologists who will study fossil records and study the diets of, you know, of man, you know, thousands of years ago, we ate a very high fiber diet, probably. I mean, we probably did. If we saw a plant that we could eat, we probably ate it. Remember, humans are opportunists when it comes to food. So yes, we were hunters, yes, we probably ate animal when we could. And in between that, we ate a shit ton of plant.

And plants then aren't like the plants now. Plants then were a lot more fibrous than they are today. We've really done a job of modifying plants through breeding, and of course, later on, through more complex methods of irradiation or genetically modifications where the plants have become less fibrous because fibrous doesn't taste good, and become more, you know, calorically dense sugar dense types of foods. So like if you look at like you look at an apple, an apple today is far larger, far more dense in terms of sugars and calories and other types

of nutrients, but far less seeds and fiber than original apples. You look at corn, for example. Corn is now a starch bomb, whereas before, there was a lot more fiber and a lot less of the starch. Humans just ate a lot of it before. And our bodies evolved eating lots of fiber. And so...

I noticed it's important. I noticed a big difference, aesthetically, right? When we're talking about that with a, with clients that were eating whatever the fuck they wanted, and then they decided to go on this diet with you, and then they end up not eating enough fiber. Super common. Because it seems like all your boxed and shit is like, they got infused fiber into everything.

So your brain's a lot of grain. Yeah, right? So you're getting a lot of fiber when you're kind of eating all over the place. And then also you get on this like- Floating constipation, I mean, that has to play a factor. Well, yeah, so then you switch over and you decide, okay, my new way of life,

or I hire my trainer at them, and now I'm gonna be following now I'm following the turkey rice and vegetable diet or whatever, you know. They end up eating low fiber. Yeah, then they're eating extremely low fiber and they're holding onto water. They're probably their stomachs inflamed a little bit, and then on top of that,

they're not shitting like they normally should. So their body weight's saying they're kind of bloated, feeling, holding water, and they're going, what the fuck's going on? I'm eating super clean. And one of the number one things that I've ever tweaked on a diet that's very, very common when I get somebody who was eating poorly and then all of a sudden is eating well is they under, can some, especially if you've got your body adapted to having

used to having lots of fiber. It's eating a lot of shit too, but it's eating a lot of fiber. So your stool's all normal. Then you switch over to a really clean diet. Fiber gets reduced by 50, 80, how much percent. And now I'll send you're having this issue. And then I shoot a bunch more fiber back into their diet. They have a normal stool two, three days later. And it's like, Oh, wow. Now I feel much better looking. And you're saying your preferred ways of increasing that for clients was like berries, berries and spinach.

Yeah. Those, those tend to be like areas that I can get it. I mean, obviously all your veggies and greens and things like that are great sources. That berries are a quick way too, with that don't have as much. So blue berries, blackberries, raspberries, strawberries, all your berries for the amount of calories and sugar that you're getting for the amount of fiber you're getting.

It almost negates like it's, and I know some people are fairly low glycemic if you, yeah, if you steer more towards the berries, the lowest, yeah, the lowest. And so the most bang for your, and antioxidant-wise. So it's, you know, berries are one of the most, you know, antioxidant rich, fiber rich foods that we can have. And so that would be like a recommended thing that I would do is I'd have them have like a, you know, a big old thing of, of all the berries and have that for, you know, a couple meals within there,

where a couple times within the day, a couple days in a row, and then also you see the stool come back to normal. So what I like to do is I like to eat large amounts of fibrous vegetables, but I have to cook them very well because if I don't, then they can cause gastrogestress. And I've had issues with the clients with this as well, where they're like, well, I'm eating all this broccoli, and it's hurting my stomach, and I've got all this gas. I'm like, are you eating it raw? Yeah, are you eating it raw?

I'm like, yeah, okay. Cook it, because it helps your body deal with the fiber that's in there. So what I'll do, my favorite source is alleyropini, or otherwise known as Robbie, R-A-B-E, and I'll buy a bushel of it, and I'll boil the shit out of it, source is Ali Rapini or otherwise known as Robbie, R-A-B-E, and I'll buy a bushel of it, and I'll boil the shit out of it and just put all of oil on it, and I'm able to consume

one or two bushel to myself, and my digestion is phenomenal when I do that. So that's just another, I guess, trick you can use for yourself. Next up is the holistic hipster. Being trainers, the three of you must have trained several successful and wise clients. What would you say is the most impactful piece of advice that a client has given you in regards to personal growth? Wow. You know, as I was going to say, the hardest part about this question will be narrowing it down to the most impactful piece.

The first one that comes to mind for me is I struggled for a very long time with this guilt to help my mom financially. And this was like a major, major burden that I carried for a very, very long time. And part of it I created for myself because I allowed this behavior, I allowed her to manipulate me for a long time and It's tough when it's your mom right your mom you love and and I used to part of my motivation to be successful when I was younger was to buy my mom a house one day and

I remember having a couple really wise clients that I had a lot of respect for and you know I'd share with them what's going on with me. And all of them were kind of saying the same thing. And that was when it finally sunk in for me. And that was, you're enabling your mother. And you're doing it because you think you love her. But if you started to look at it through a different lens, that every time that you give her money when she says she needs it

and she needs help, that you're actually hurting her and If you could start to look at it that way, maybe it would change your behaviors and You know, and they went deeper into explaining how I'm technically hurting them by giving fine giving them money finance giving her fine money financially and That was a that was big for me It was and it was a really tough thing for me to go through where I stopped doing that. Because I started to do it also for my two youngest siblings who we have over 10 years apart from each other. And I became kind of like this father figure

for them where every time I came into town, I was buying the things that they needed, whether it be soccer cleats or new outfit for school or whatever computer, all kinds of shit, right? So I did that for a very long time for my siblings. And a lot of that too was my own insecurities of wanting that which was tough. And through these clients, I started to reflect on myself. Like, you know, I always had this chip on my shoulder to prove that I was successful. I didn't, I didn't finish college. So I always had this on, you know, this, this monkey on my back of, you know, because I didn't go to college, like, can I be successful and, and do well? And I did,

I did very well. And I was well off, but then I also felt like I needed to show that. And one of the ways that I, I, I justified that was by buying people things all the time. And, you know, I spent a lot of money on my siblings and my mom, partially one because I thought that I was loving them by doing that, but in reality, I was really feeding in security and I was also enabling my mother. So I think when I think of personal growth and the most impactful thing that's probably been given to me

from clients, that was probably something that fundamentally changed my life forever and for the better. But man, I could sit here, I could go a whole two-hour podcast and talk about the wisdom that I gained from clients. A lot of what I learned from clients was just through observation. I mean, I have shared the story before I had a client who was self-made, very successful and I asked him, he was an older gentleman in his mid-70s, and I said, what, you know, can you tell me, like, how to be, like, what I need to do to become successful like you? And he says, you're asking me the wrong question.

He said, asking me how many times I failed. And so he went into telling me about all the times he'd gone bankrupt and how life is like a game. And he goes, it'll pitch you as many balls as you're willing to swing at. And I remember that being kind of like, oh, like, so if I fail, that's not the last time, I can keep going.

And so I remember getting that lesson from him. But what also just came to me was I had a client, ended up becoming a good friend of mine, Marco. He might be listening, good friend of mine, great guy. And he hired me right, probably about a year and a half after he had gotten divorced. And he had gained a bunch of weight through the stress of the divorce and all that stuff.

And he had four children, four kids. And we started working out together and he got in shape with me and all that stuff. And as we became friends, as you guys know, when you train someone for years, you end up talking about everything. This is somebody I was seeing two to three days a week for an hour, you're gonna talk about all kinds

of different things. And what was crazy to me was how him, and this was a long time ago, how him and his ex-wife handled their divorce with their children. He was so involved with his kids. He had a text, he would text his ex-wife, even though she was married to someone else

and he was seeing someone else. They would text each other, oh, you know, they talk about their kids, okay, what happened in school and make sure you do this for your kid, no problem. And he would tell me about the difficulties, and he's like, and I would remember, I have these conversations,

because at the time I was very unhappy in my marriage. I mean, you know, when you talk to people who've been married for a long time, and they get divorced, the last five years or so, it's like they've been thinking about it, right? And that was me. And so here he is, he's telling me kind of how he handled his ex-wife and how they worked together.

And towards the end, this was now seven years later, or whatever, they had developed the kind of relationship where they would go on vacations together, not just him and his ex-wife, but him and his new wife, his ex-wife and her new husband and the kids. And he sat there and he told me, you know, we do this not because we like each other, because I don't want to hang out with my ex-wife. I really don't care.

Besides our history of having these kids together, I could care less. He goes, but the kids get to see how all these people are doing this for them. And this woman is going to be in my life forever because we share these children. Why not have a good relationship where we work together rather than fighting? And it was, I'd never seen an example of this before

and it was his example that I try to still follow today with how I am with my kids and my ex-wife and how we try to work together and all that stuff. And it requires a tremendous amount of maturity. It's not easy because obviously you gotta think about why you're getting divorced in the first place. You don't like each other So now you gotta like figure out how to really work together and not piss each other off even more

Especially now that you're not even living together You you want to tell the person to fuck off or whatever it takes a ridiculous amount of maturity but watching him do that really influenced me and You know now the way we handle it now. It's not perfect But it's it's for my kids, I can see my kids are thriving as a result of it, so. Yeah, I can echo a lot, especially the first example you brought up with failure

and just observing how some of my high profile clients really dealt with their struggles and their pursuits, you know, in their different respective businesses and one of them that really stood out. And I still, I mean, I still train one client today for a very specific reason. She's been a very instrumental part of my growth as a human being. And I think it's a relationship that also, like we've played off of each other in different stages of growth and pursuits. And I've seen decisions she's made,

like really, really hard decisions, where she took a complete 180 and did the opposite of what she was doing because realized this was not the direction that she wanted to go. I thought that was like very brave. And that was a big lesson for me. It was like all in, but realizing this has an ending that I don't agree with, I don't want to go in this direction.

I'm just going to completely turn the ship in the opposite direction and be confident in that decision and reinvent myself. And I was like, holy shit. Like I can't believe like you, you just don't see that a lot. And that was like huge for me. Because you know, you do things and you see like all the momentum and a lot of times like if you're working on something so hard, you get like the horse blinders on. And you see, all the momentum, and a lot of times, if you're working on something so hard,

you get the horse blinders on. And you see just one thing, and all you can see is the vision of that thing. And then you get closer and closer, and you realize, well, I don't really know if that's where I want to be, and that's where I want to be, and that's what I want to do.

And knowing that you always have an option of just completely reinventing and starting over. Yeah, it's tough and it's a hard road, but it's all in your mindset. It's all accomplishable. The thing I think I miss most about training clients is what I would get. Oh, yeah, I would get from them I'm sure I mean it's what it's one of the reasons why I used to love training the elderly I love training the elderly because these are people who are down the earth a lot longer than you They just I mean, there's just a truth there right like I'm not saying. Hey, this is true for everybody who's who's You know a lot older than me. I'm sure there's a lot of idiots out there that are older.

But many times you're looking at somebody like, think about this. I used to say this to my staff all the time because they would be like, God, you love training. Because I would have at one point a good one third of my clients, which is a lot because usually it's not that many at all. One third of my clients, which is a lot, because usually it's not that many at all. One third of my clients was like 78 or older. So I'd have all these old people that would come in and some of them would have a walker or a cane

or whatever would do this correctional work and we'd sit down and talk. And I used to tell them, they'd be like, you know, I know how I think now versus how I used to think 10 years ago, totally different. Yeah. And the only difference is time. Yeah, imagine when you've gone through that rotation four times.

I wish, exactly. I can imagine if you could talk to your 80 year old self, if you could sit down with your 80 year old self, that wisdom as you can't. There's a lot of patterns in life and there's a lot of things in history that continue to resurface just with a new title or a new face, right? Yeah. Even like how we open this whole podcast up when we're talking about this, the Gillette thing

and, and the dividing people and this and that. Like, you talk to someone who's in their 80s and they'll probably have a story for you where something's very similar to that. And news happened in the 70s, in the 80s, in the 90s. You know what I'm saying? They'll be able to tell you, like, it's no different than this than that. And then they explain the outcome of that. And it's like, okay.

Exactly. Because I think sometimes you look at someone who's older like, and it's crazy because most cultures, especially old cultures, revere their elderly because of their wisdom. And for whatever reason, the newer cultures, we revered youth mainly because of, I think it's advertising, because sex sells and it's attractive and all that stuff. So we place a lot of value on that,

but really there's more value in wisdom. Okay, and as you get older, you realize this because then you become more wise. And you're like, oh yeah, I was 10 years ago, I thought I knew everything. It's funny, you know, 20 year old me thought he knew everything. Like I was convinced, like, I fucking got this man. It's like the conversation you brought up

with, we were talking with Danny and stuff, being such a smart kid because he's read so much. I mean, the kids got more national certs than I ever had right now at what he's fucking early 20s. Yeah. You know, he's accumulated more certifications in his, in his few years than I have in my total career. He's CSCS, he's got his degree in Kines,

like just a brilliant young man, you know? But there's something about applying a lot of that knowledge to hundreds and hundreds of people that, you know, there's certain thing you talk differently about the points that you felt so passionately about back then because you realize that like, wow, it's just, that's a bunch of hot air that doesn't even matter.

Like what really matters is me speaking to these points because that's what's gonna make the difference in people. And you just don't know that until you've been around long enough and applied a lot of this knowledge because not, and that's not the devalue, the education and the knowledge because I think that's important.

So you have something to pull from, and then to take and to apply towards people. So you then have, what does Paul Chekzeh, wisdom is the synthesis of experience and knowledge. Oh yeah. So you take those two to combine them, and then you get wisdom.

You gotta have the knowledge, but you gotta have experience in a great wisdom. I, and it's funny, it's like, again, we don't revere the older people in this country we should because the only way you can get wisdom is through experience. So the only people that have it are people who've experienced a lot and been around typically for a long time. I mean, there's younger people with more wisdom than

some older people, it's because they've lived more in their youth than some older people have in their lives. But more often than not, you meet an 80 year old, you sit down with them and you ask them a question and don't have this like, oh, you're old, you don't understand me. Oh, when you were a kid, you had black and white TVs, you didn't have any computers. Like, dump all that out. Like, just like Adam said, the wisdom, and again, you can read ancient texts. You know, if you look at like ancient practices, spiritual practices, religions, if you look in them, you'll find a lot of wisdom that is true today.

You know, we talk about abstaining, you know, fasting, stuff like this. They've been talking about this shit for thousands of years. Now we got all the science, the support, and it's good for you and this, that and the other. They've known this forever. All these practices, they didn't need to study to tell them. Rituals, I used to think rituals were stupid,

are rituals, what do we need rituals for? Then you realize what rituals do. Rituals are important because they put you in a particular state of mind and rituals help ritualize things to help create a practice. So although it's true that you may be able to, you know, you can get a good workout just by going to the gym and working out, creating the ritual of putting on the right workout clothes, getting into the mental state with the music.

Whatever your ritual is, that may actually improve your ability to have better workouts. It's a stupid example, but I think you get the point. So I remember one time I was having a conversation with one of my older clients and we were talking about friendships. And I was like, you know, I was talking about this friend that I had and we weren't really close anymore. And she said something that's so simple, but it made so much sense. And she sat there and she goes, she goes, so she goes, when you have a garden and you

watering it, it's beautiful. She's like, a garden and you watering it, it's beautiful. She's like, the second you stop watering it, it dies. She's like, all relationships are like this. You have to water them every single day. And I was like, well, fuck me. Yeah, that's totally true. Like, that's 100% true.

I don't care what relationship you have. You stop watering it as shit will die. Anyway, that's my piece there. Next question is from Ryan Alduenda. What is the worst piece of advice a fellow podcaster has given you about your business? We're gonna start launching. Here we go. Well, I have two that come to mind right away.

Even though I don't think we've got a lot of bad advice from other podcasters, in fact, I think that there's a lot of good relationships that we forged in the podcasting space. And for the most part, I think everybody has been pretty well received and I think everybody, there's not, I think you have a lot of intelligent people in the podcasting space, so a lot of people sharing good information. It's a newer space too. So I don't

know if there's a lot of. Yeah, there's, and it's hard to say what constitutes bad. But I have two things that come to mind when, when asked this question. The first one, the ghost was very beginning when we first started. And even though Craig is not a fellow technically podcast, right now he's talked about getting into podcasting and he technically was a part of mind pump when we first started. And even though Craig is not a fellow technically podcast, I know he's talked about getting into podcasting and he technically was a part of Mind Pump when we first started, so you could argue that he kind of was. And I remember, and this was really I think the sign that it wasn't meant to be for all four of us to be together. And it was after one of the first episodes that we had ever recorded, which is never aired. And I know what Justin Salonai, how we all feel about the vision of Mind Pump and how we wanted it to come off with this very real and authentic conversation amongst a couple

of smart guys that don't agree on everything and just let it flow and let it be organic. And I remember hanging the mics up after that episode and Craig, you know, Craig's a, Craig's an alpha and a leader like all of us. And so he asserted himself right away and was like, okay, you know, I think the next episode, Justin is gonna intro and start. And then I'll talk and then Adam can talk

and then Sal will talk Alaska's, Sal did all the talking on this last one. And he was so concerned about who... What airtime. Yeah, who got airtime, who was gonna be looked at as the authority, he wanted to be evenly dispersed amongst all of us because he cared about that.

And I understand that, like I get it, but I also knew that the three of us weren't like this. It's not the dynamic. We didn't care. You know, no one here cares who comes off smarter, who's more of this, who's more of that. It was, we wanted to present a very authentic, organic conversation that people can not only enjoy,

but also learn from and feel like they're a part of versus this formulaic conversation that is designed to make you see that all four of us are very smart or equally smart or equally good at what we do and we're all equal. It's like, I don't give a fuck. I don't care if someone judges me as less equal than the other two men in this room. That's not why we do this. And so I think that was really bad advice. If we would have followed that, I think that could have crushed the business. So that's the first one that I remember. Then the other one was when I had a Connor come stay with me.

I brought Connor in from on it after we met him. And I remember meeting him and he really, we all really liked him a lot. Like he, we hit it off with him. He's got a great personality. He's not with them anymore, right? He's not with on it. No, he still is.

He's still with on it. Yeah, he does something else for them. I believe, that's a good question. I don't know if he's on the payroll anymore. I don't know his financial situation, but he's definitely not doing what he was doing for on it back then. But I really liked him.

We all did. And I remember telling the guys, okay, I'm gonna invite this kid to come out and stay with me. And to be honest with you, I was looking to shark him potentially. And see if he was somebody who we could implement into the mind pump culture and he could fit in.

And I spent two or three days with him and quickly found out that wasn't going to be the case. And part of that comes from some of the advice that he gave me, one of the, some of the advice that he had gave me was to reach out to Barbell Shrug for one of the areas that we were currently working on the business. And that was when I knew that he didn't see

or have an idea of what we were really doing because I wasn't impressed with anything that Barbell Shrugged was doing. And when he gave me that advice to do. What was the same regards like a like program? So at that time, we were just getting into Facebook advertising and we had an even hired Casey and his company to do our advertising for us. And he had told me to reach out to Barbell Shroud because they were the masters at that.

And he doesn't know this. I mean, he will if he listens to the show now, but I had already gone through all their business and looked at what they were doing and I wasn't impressed with anything. In fact, I think in business, I think we have discussed this before. It was a Talk or I think as a TED Talk about Netflix and the importance of timing in business. I mean, timing is the number one reason why most companies are

very successful. And I think Barb El Shrug did a good job of timing their time in the market. And that was a lot of their success, but as far as how their business is operated, I wasn't impressed. And, you know, so that was the other thing that came to mind when I think of someone giving me advice, business wise, on what I should follow or look at. And at that time, I knew where we needed to go as far as marketing and advertising, and that was before Casey'd even came on board.

And I know when we met with him and presented the vision of MindPomp, like he was definitely the right match for what we are trying to do. I can kind of remember one, I don't know specifically who had mentioned it or not, but I just remember like the sentiment for most podcasts at the time was to try to get on a network. And for them to be able to basically get you all the advertisement and then they're gonna take about half of the revenue that you accumulate from that you're gonna do a read. And so basically it had a lot of the same feel as radio and a lot of the infrastructure for that.

So there was a thought in that direction of like, oh, is that really how this is gonna work? Is that gonna fit well with our business? And quickly, we all agreed that that just would not fit with what we're presenting. We're presenting real companies we believe in and vet them. And you're basically hands off for the most part when you give that off to

a network like that to basically go to all the work. What a great point, Justin. I can't believe I let that slip because yesterday I was literally talking to somebody who started, who was going live on a podcast in February. And she was telling me that part of the motivation was that her co-host has a connection through one of these networks and that they would, you know,

set her up with potential commercials and this and that. And I told her one of the biggest mistakes I think people make are going through these networks. First of all, one, you take 50% of your money, minimum, that you're gonna make on on the commercials too, they are supporting the brand, not you. Their job is to use the collection of people that are looking to advertise in the podcasting space and then to try and match it with you. So they're really representing them and not you. And I remember when we were thinking about that also and that was horrible advice.

And one of the best things that we ever did was having Taylor create that side of the house. So we have an in-house system, which is to another good point that somebody brought up on the forum about the companies that we represent on here. People don't know, well maybe some people know, because I've mentioned it, I think, before. But many of the companies that we talk about, we've been courting them for some of them as long as a year and a half before we even onboard them as a sponsor. And a lot of that is us hanging out with the CEOs of those companies and Taylor going back and forth and telling them our standards with things. Using their products for a very long time.

Like, people know we use, many times we'll use the products for months before we decide, because we just wanna see how do we feel, how do we like it, what do we not like about it? Before we ever mention anything, because there's a little bit of responsibility that we feel, we don't wanna promote something that isn't legit or isn't gonna be good, like I don't wanna promote something just that isn't legit or isn't gonna be good. Like, I don't want to promote something

just because it looks good on paper. And then I get, you know, people end up getting bad reactions or whatever. That's a big one. I think, you know, two parts here. First off, I think for some people, it's a good idea to work for a network. I think if you feel like you just want to be a podcast host,

then that might be a good idea. Now, all of us didn't do this with the ideas of just being podcast hosts. Our ideas were to start a movement and a business. And so we wanted to own it. We wanted to own what we did. And we also looked at the long game. We didn't sign with a sponsor for a long time. I was like, we didn't, first of all, we didn't sell a thing for a year.

And we didn't sign, like, really sign with sponsors until what, two or something like years later. Yeah, well, last year was the first year that we made any real decent money. Right. And so because we were looking at the long game and we want to own that, and we're trying to, we were trying to create a media company. So if your goal is just to be a podcast host,

and you're not trying to own a business or anything, you just want to be a host and want to show up to work, get paid to just to be a podcast host and you're not trying to own a business or anything You just want to be a host and my show up to work get paid to just talk on a podcast which is fine There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, if you look at it more like radio. Yes, like you have content You're coming in you're doing your job and then you go home. That's where that's a fair argument I think and it's obviously because you're gonna see more of that well not only that But it's also required us to have somebody on staff like Taylor. That's literally his full-time job. That's like how much vetting and conversations

and back and forth that happens between sponsors happen is that it has supported a person's full-time job to do nothing but that. Right. I think you're going to see more of that. I think as the space grows, you're going to see more and more of these talented hosts get picked up by networks and these hosts have no, they have no interest in becoming business owners. They have no interest in, you know, anything aside from being

on a podcast and talking about a particular subject. The other thing too is, I, this is something that we all had in common and thank God because it would have caused a lot of problems if we didn't, but all of us really don't like anybody telling us what we can and can't say or do. Not even our sponsors. We've actually gotten into this problem with sponsors. We'll send a message to us and be like, hey, we want you to read this for you and we'll be like, no, we'll say what we want, we'll be honest.

And then if you don't like our performance, then we don't have to work with you. But they always like our performance. But we don't, I don't want to work for a network and then have someone tell me, hey, you shouldn't have said that. Hey, you should say this. Here's what I want you to, no, no, no, I'll do what I want. Right, right. And in fact, telling me what to do, it's a great way to get me to do the opposite of that. And then back to what you were saying earlier in this, in the question, Adam, about timing. I mean, and by the way, you know, Barbel Shrogg guys, great guys, Anders, great guy, you know, talked to him a few times, nice, very, very nice dude. But you're right, the timing was absolutely

perfect. They got into the podcast space before we did when it was really early, and they attached themselves to an exploding brand. They were the CrossFit podcast. So CrossFit itself exploded in the fitness scene, and it was kind of this new cutting edge way of working out. Everybody in it had this attitude of, we're gonna do things differently, we're gonna eat differently,

we're gonna dress differently, we're gonna talk about things differently, and we're gonna listen to this new thing called podcast. What's the one podcast that's for CrossFit, Barbell Shrugged, and they, you know what it reminds me of? There's a brand, what's that brand that was connected to, UFC that first started out. Tap out.

Tap out. Remember how tap out blew up because UFC blew up? Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's really, that's what happened, right? Tap out was a t-shirt company, but they just probably made millions of dollars. Yeah, because they exploded, because they attached themselves to the growing brand. So their timing was, you know, absolutely perfect.

And that means a lot in business. But I think, you know, you guys, I think, do you, what you were saying, Justin, I think is probably the biggest one that I could pick up. I can't believe I didn't even think, because I literally was just talking to this girl yesterday about that. So what a great point that you You got some good advice to oh, we've got it. We've got I was named from I can't even remember his name best what a best podcast host interview

I heard in yeah Jordan. Yeah. Oh god. He's the guys just He's I he should charge people he's a master of his craft teach them how to interview and Now the irony of that is that same great advice is also who brought up the brought up that originally the podcast I think it was him. It was him. So he's somebody who uses an agency You know, he's chose to go through an agency because he just and which it makes sense But he's just he's a master of podcast. Yeah, you know exactly. He's he has got he's mastered the interview process so well He's different. He's different than what we're building here. We're trying to build a media company.

We're all trying to deal with this. Yeah, it is different. So, but I would say he's given, I mean, we've had so much great advice. I mean, a lot of conversations with other podcasters, we've got great advice. I would say there's, there's a lot less, you know, bad advice that we got through people. And even the ones that I pointed out, I don't think we're like, here's some of the best. So horrific. I mean, I appreciate, I appreciate Connor trying, you know, bad advice that we got through people. And even the ones that I pointed out, I don't think we're like, here's some of the best. So horrific.

I mean, I appreciate Connor trying, you know, but I mean, I just, I knew that when he advised that, I'm like, okay, you just, you don't see the vision, you don't get what we're trying to do if that's where you're trying to point me in that direction, which is also what led me to believe that I didn't think that he would be that great of an asset with us. And so I was like, okay.

I tell you what though, one, here's one piece of advice that we've said many times and it's simple. It's very simple. And I still see people doing this. And I'm telling you right now, you will fall by the wayside. If you don't fix this, if your sound is shit, if it sounds like you're talking in a bathroom and there's an echo in the background, I've got buddies. I'm not going to call them out because I like these people who have podcasts in our space, good information. I listen to it and it's like it sounds like you're in a fucking bathroom. All you gotta do is put some blankets up on the walls, absorb

the sound so it sounds better because the space is growing so fast that we're literally five years away from major production. I tell people, I tell people it's the same thing trying to get in as a TV network and then shooting in this fucking low resolution feed. You know what I'm saying? Like if you have all these channels that are shooting in high depth and then you're in black and white still,

well look at you. I mean, who's gonna watch? You could have the best content in the world and you might get a little bit of an audience that will watch it in black and white still because it's such great content. But the level of content that you have to be putting out in order to attract people to a horrible sound right now is.

It's competition is getting better and better. It reminds me of, if you look at YouTube, six years ago on YouTube, you had the top fitness guys, we're getting millions of views, shitty compared to what you see now, right? Shitty quality. It was just a plain camera, the crappy sound, dude standing in front of camera talking. It's what's his name, six pack abs or Scooby, whatever the guy's name.

Millions and millions of followers. Those guys today, if they started their channels today like that, would never, never get traction. They would never get traction. Because YouTube is so competitive now, the podcast space is starting to get like that and one of the easiest black and white things, and it doesn't, like equipment's cheap now. You could get high fucking quality microphone equipment. Well, almost everybody, under a grand.

Well, almost everybody has similar or pretty similar mics. It's what you put, it's the room. Yes, the room. It's the, you know, the foam in this room and then like before even this room and we had the other place, was the blankets, like you said. And Doug's living room, I remember before we podcast, it would take an hour of setup, because we'd hang blankets.

And I remember us being like, we'd roll our eyes. I was like, who cares, Doug? But Doug was like, no, it's got to sound. Thank God, Doug. No, no, you talk about huge paramount decisions that were made by each of us individually and that was Doug who really was just would not budge on that. And, you know, if really if it was up to me, we would have paid no attention to that. And, you know, that was a major learning lesson, I think, for all of us.

And now I believe in it so much that you're right. I'm like, it's the first to pass that on. The two things that it's so funny, you guys both picked those things because I was literally giving podcast advice to someone yesterday. And those were the two major points I mean, was, you know, don't go, don't go skimpy on your equipment, get yourself some nice equipment, spend some time in a, even if it's in your house, you know, make the room sound, sound proof and make it as good as you can. So when people listen to you, it's not annoying and sounds like you're in a bathroom. And then the other advice was to her about the advertising.

It's like, don't just go, do not, your goal should not be to make money right now. It should be to find a way to provide so much value for your audience that they want to pay you. Truly connect with your audience. Yes, absolutely. So look, you can go to mindpumpfree.com and download some of our free fitness, nutrition, and health guides.

I believe there's, I don't know, maybe 10 down there. So again, it's MindPumpFree.com, go check it out. Also, you can find our individual Instagram pages with our own unique content. So you can find Justin on Instagram at MindPumpJustin. Adam is at MindPump, Adam and in me, is at MindPumpSouth. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump Justin. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam and in me is at Mind Pump Sal. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body,

dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at Mind Pump Media.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps and a ballad, maps for performance and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs.

With detailed workout blueprints in over 200 videos, the RGB Superbumble is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainer's butt at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five-star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing MindPump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support, and until next time, this is Mind Pump!