Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - 967: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon

Episode Date: February 14, 2019

In this episode, Sal, Adam & Justin speak with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. 967: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon What is her background in the space of health/wellness? (4:52) What got her interested in what she does now? (6:00) Her journey competing and how it impacted her health/mindset. Did she have the best approach going into it? (7:50) What happens to women’s hormones when they maintain such a low body fat percentage for so long? (12:19) What did the process look like for her while she was competing? (13:02) Why, maybe, you SHOULDN’T be fasting. (14:38) What does the post-workout window look like for men and women? (17:28) How she works with anyone ready to ‘level-up’ in their lives. (19:14) What different challenges does she face working/coaching high performers (i.e. Navy Seals, Green Berets) in comparison to the average person? The 4 characteristics of high performers. (21:44) Where does she see actual measurements that a person’s mental state is where it should be? (29:40) What happens to women’s hormones when they go through menopause? Her checklist and standard of care protocols. (32:55) Does she find that the average female under consumes protein? Does she recommend the vegan diet to a post-menopausal woman? (37:35) Why does she believe the medical community doesn’t place resistance training as a priority? (40:00) What does the process look like for women coming off birth control? (42:50) A review of Adam’s testosterone case. (46:20) Should you modify your training/nutrition based on your menstrual cycle? (50:00) What is estrogen/progesterone dominance? Symptoms? (50:43) Are there common supplements she recommends? (53:35) How common is vitamin d deficiency? (54:20) What conditions does she use functional vs. western medicine? (56:00) Does she use red light therapy? Would she prescribe it to her patients? (1:02:47) How has her pregnancy been so far? Challenges she has faced? (1:04:15) Is she looking into alternative forms of birthing? (1:12:25) What does she see when she looks at the landscape of social media and things that are perpetuated on the western medicine side vs. the functional side, what bothers her the most? (1:15:47) Featured Guest/People Mentioned: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, DO (@drgabriellelyon)  Instagram/Twitter Website Facebook Don Layman (@donlayman)  Twitter John Brenkus (@johnbrenkus_)  Twitter Dr. Jolene Brighten (@drjolenebrighten)  Instagram Melissa Paris Products Mentioned: February Promotion: MAPS Performance is ½ off!! **Code “GREEN50” at checkout** Mind Pump Episode 955: John Brenkus A fascinating landmark study of placebo surgery for knee osteoarthritis Gabrielle’s Protocol Beyond the Pill: A 30-Day Program to Balance Your Hormones, Reclaim Your Body, and Reverse the Dangerous Side Effects of the Birth Control Pill – Book by Jolene Brighten Everly Well   **Code “mindpump” for 15% off any test** How To Use BPC-157 - Ben Greenfield Fitness Joovv   **MAPS Prime w/purchase of $500 or more and free shipping** Altered microbiome after caesarean section impacts baby's immune system ‘Bad cholesterol’ also vital for health

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mite, op, mite, op with your hosts. Salda Stefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. So, we just had a great interview with Gabrielle Lyon. You're about to listen to Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. Yes. Great conversation. It was. Very, very good conversation. Lots of insight. I like how she was in kind of in our space before she became a doctor and an expert on these things.

I feel like. I feel like she's like if Chris Cresser and Lane Norton had a baby. Mm, whoa. That'd be, yeah. I don't wanna watch the video. That's thanks for the image. That's a lot.

No, but I know what you mean. Not the way she looks, but her knowledge and the way she speaks about functional medicine and Western medicine, I really appreciate the way she provides information in this podcast. It's very balanced. I believe you actually compliment her at one point in the episode just the way that, you know, even when she's talking when you're asking a Seems a pretty basic question for someone like her. She's very careful to You know explain that you know this type of doctor would have would know the best people that are experts in that right But in my opinion in the literature that I've read. This is what I've seen lots of integrity

Yeah, a lot of integrity. No, she's a good follow on Instagram too. Good information. Yeah, she does a myth-busting Monday thing and I think like an asked doctor thing on Wednesday, I believe she does on it. So she is a good follow on Instagram. And then she's, you know, when she came in, she told us that she was,

she's about to end her first trimester pregnancy. So towards the end of the episode, we got to ask all these great questions about nutrition and training and just around pregnancy, what that looks like and how she's experiencing it. So really good turn to the episode at the end there. Yeah, and all of it, I mean, we touched men's hormone levels too. And we talked a little bit about what that was like

for me coming off Testosterone. She gave some recommendations. She cleared up some things that I was uncertain about as far as taking a therapeutic dose and still being able to produce enough to have a child. We touched on that, we talked about menopause. I thought that was a great section in there too. That's one of the...

Determines of fasting and for women. Right, right. I mean, that's one of the hardest things ever for me as a trainer when I think back to clients that I struggled with as far as getting them results. I think women going through or having just gone through minipause is hands down the most challenging thing. That in thyroid are probably the two most challenging things I've ever dealt with as a trainer. And so she touched on that a lot.

Women's periods and training and nutrition around that. I mean, just this one's got it's got a ton of great nuggets and it's fire bombs. Yes, it's on a nugget bomb. So you can find her on Instagram and Twitter at Dr. DR. So it's DR Gabrielle Lion Gabrielle spelled G A B R-L-E, and then Lion is L-Y-O-N. On Facebook, she's Dr. Gabrielle Lion, excuse me, Dr. Spelled out, D-O-C-T-O-R. And then her website is drgabriellion.com, so you can check her out. Like I said earlier, she's a really good follow. Also before the episode starts, I do want to remind everybody that this month,

Maps Performance, which is our functional training program, is really a training program that we designed for people who are looking to develop full spectrum athletic performance. So, you know, what does that look like? Maximal strength, agility, power, mobility, the ability to change directions quickly. And then of course, the visible results that that produces.

So you think to yourself, if I train for all these physical pursuits, how is my body gonna look? It's gonna look very balanced. You're gonna have a balanced built physique that can perform well and looks well. And the workouts are fun. They are not like your traditional gym workouts.

You're making different exercises. There's a special emphasis on mobility. It's one of our more popular programs. Once people get the program, the letters that we get, or the emails that we get are just, they're all phenomenal and glowing. So anyway, it's half off.

It's 50% off this whole month, and it's getting revamped. So once you get the program, or if you already have the program, it gets updated automatically for free. Here's how you get the 50% off. You got to go to maps, fitnessproducts.com, and use the code green50, GREN50, no space for the discount. And on that site, you can also learn about our other maps, programs, make sure you go check them out. And without any further ado, here we are talking to Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. If you wouldn't mind telling our audience about your background, just for the people

that don't know who you are and what you do. Let's just start up by saying, I've trained 17 years. So I have a formal education of 17 years. Oh, wow. I did. It's a lot of school. It's a lot of student love and debt. It's just keeping it real. So I am a osteopathic physician. I did my undergraduate in human nutrition vitamin and rheumatabolism at University of Illinois with Donald Laman who also I was in the same while Lane Norton was doing his graduate degree. I was

getting my undergrad. Okay. Yeah, so I did that for a little bit and then I decided to go to medical school and I went to medical school in Arizona and that was an osteopathic school. I was very interested in sports medicine. So I chose that. Really hated medical school but managed to stick it out and went to two years of psychiatry at University of Louisville in my residency. So I did my residency two years of psychiatry. Then three years of family medicine at North Shore L.I.J. and then a fellowship in obesity medicine and geriatrics at Wash You. That was another two years. Awesome. Now what got you interested in doing what you're doing now where a lot of the stuff you talk about is

regards to athletic performance and muscle building and fat loss. I so my godmother was one of the OGs of and is one of the OGs of functional medicine and that is an Integrative approach functional medicine maybe isn't the best word, but really this concept that there's always a root cause for something And I moved in with her. I graduated high school early and moved in with her when I was 17. And that really changed the trajectory of my education. And I just became very interested. I was always an athlete.

So I was played soccer, track, dance, gymnastics. And moving in with her, I saw, as I worked for Women Board and saw her patients come in, it really inspired me from a very young age. So at 17, that changed my trajectory. So by the time I went to college, I knew exactly what I was going to study. And I became very interested, you know, back in the day, we did fitness America. Remember that?

I remember that. I just don't show anyone any videos of that, but I did want some of the first Finnish America. You competed. Oh, okay. What were the activities you had to do for? I know you had to do it. It was like a one-arm push-up and splits and it was all the stuff.

My first year as an amateur, I placed 12th in the world. So it was hundreds of girls and that started my interest in body composition. And then of course training under Dr. Donal Lehmann, it was all about having a muscle-centric approach. And he did a lot of clinical studies when you look at body fat, lean tissue, oops, and how it affects metabolism. And I took that with me into medical school and residency and you just see all this obesity, cardiovascular disease, all timers, all of these diseases that are preventable. Now, did that prevent or help you?

Because we see a lot of competitors in sports like that, bikini, physique, bodybuilding. And we see, especially with females where they go into these competitions, and they just completely destroy their hormones and their metabolism, were you able to prevent that for yourself that happened to you? That journey for me was probably a good 10 years.

So I did many, I was a top amateur figure competitor and then of course fitness America, I would compete at 8% body fat. So obviously I would lose my period. Sleep was bad, mood instability, and it also changes your awareness of your body, you become very dysmorphic. That probably went on for, like I said, a good 10 years,

and it took me another five, easily five to repair. Now, was that a lot of that due to, like looking back now that you did a lot of things wrong? Or do you think that you were doing it as healthy as you could and it still fucked you? I think, I think that in any extreme sport or with elite military operators like SEALS, that this continuum of health and wellness,

that spectrum changes. So you're the better athlete, arguably the better athlete you become, the less healthy. Right, I was talking about this all the time. No sport is healthy for the body. Doing anything repetitively like that, or putting yourself through that much stress

is never gonna be ideal for overall. But I also think that there's, speaking of the spectrum, I think that there is some people that get into it and have kind of a healthier relationship with it, and then others, do you think that you had a good, the best approach you could though going into it? Or no.

I think, and I think that when you're talking about a figure physique type sport, that any kind of healthy relationship you have with the external body changes. Part of the sport, I don't know anyone that does it in a way that allows them to maintain any kind of healthy perspective. It's a difficult one, right? Well, I think it's being judged solely by your appearance.

I think it matters when you win and height. So I entered into it like later in like 30. So I got into it when I was 30 as amateur and then I worked my way to a pro-man's physique athlete. But I got into it after already 12 years in the field and seeing all the issues with it. So I think I approached it as healthy of approach as you can. Although what I talk about on the show a lot

was I saw more body dysfunction, poor relationships with nutrition in there than I did in the thousands of clients that I had seen over the previous 12 years. So I do know that it's, I think it's worse and exaggerated there. I think that you also came into it with wisdom, right? I started in my early 20s, right? And at that, you had don't have experience. One of the things, when I look at my patients that have a optimal level of health, they

have four characteristics. Primarily, and one of those characteristics is experience. And I had no experience. So I think that when you're young and these girls and women that are going into a young or men, then they don't have that wisdom and they can't take that. That's a really, really good point. You mentioned body dysmorphia or dysmorphic views. How did that translate for you? What did that feel like? Because we have a lot of people who compete, who listen, and we have a lot of people who want to compete, who listen. And I think that they need to hear, you know, what it's like. When I was probably at my worst, I was very consumed on a daily basis of what I looked like.

I would be way less social because I wasn't fit enough. And we're talking, I mean, this was, we're talking 8% body fat is not at a maintainable level for a female. It's almost, you're almost below a central body fat. Absolutely. I mean, I didn't have my period. I wasn't able to function. Again, all of these things were centered around how lean I was, events with family, and

it really destroys relationships because it becomes the number one most important thing. And you're 10 years, you said, huh? Yeah. What happens to... I mean, it becomes less as you again gain experience, but I had been a swimsuit model and I had been competing for a long time. Did you compete naturally or did you use...

I did. You did compete. What happens to, in particular, a woman's hormones when she maintains that lean of a body fat percentage for that long? I see this in my clinic often, and it takes the hypotherlemic pituitary access really shuts off. So the way that your brain communicates with the rest of your body becomes diminished. And it takes years to get that fertility back from what I've seen.

Of course, everybody's different. There's always individual cases, but it takes a long time. And then, of course, you have to take into account external stressors. If a woman is interpreting her environment to stress pull that also, there's that internal stress of the physiology and then the external stress. And that really changes things. How did you, you said it took you five years to, to correct things? What did you, you said it took you five years to, to correct things? Did it?

What did that process look like? Oh man, it took a lot of rest and it took a lot of awareness of my nutrition. I had a tendency to over train. I'm type A a little bit. I would over train, underfeed, not sleep, whatever I could get done. I could get done.

I was doing my fellowship. I'm waking up four in the morning, getting whatever it had to happen. And it really took taking a step back and looking what is the long-term trajectory of the health that I wanted to have. So for all the women listening, they really, nothing is free. So if you make those choices, there is a price to pay later on down the line. Did your body fat have to go and like a really big office? I've seen women do this where they'll damage their metabolism or their bodies for years

and years and years. And then to recover, it's almost like they have to let their body fat climb to the high 20s and 30s before their body starts to regulate and become normal. I have seen that. I think it depends on the individual's baseline. I tend to be leaner at baseline. So I could easily function at 12 to 14%. Okay.

For me, you know, that's just a genetic capacity. My dad was a collegiate athlete. My mom was very athletic. So for me, that was a good foundational baseline. But I did have to go into the 20s for my lower 20s for my body for my body's regulatory systems to kick back up. And also I would do a lot of fasting. And that is not good for hormones. And I also see that for men as well. Let's talk about that because we've had fasting experts come on the show, we talk about fasting all the time, I think it's a phenomenal practice

where almost a spiritual practice, it's present in every major religion and spiritual practice on earth because it helps you detach from one of your worldly connections to food or whatever you know, which is also turning into the newest fad diet. It's right, but then we also see that

and we also see how people do it so regularly. And these are people who are too stressed anyway, have HPA access to function anyway. And they'll message me and be like, hey, here's all my symptoms. But I intermittent fast every day. I don't eat till 4 p.m. every day. I'm like, okay, start eating breakfast because I think your body's viewing it as a stress. So let's talk about that. What are some of the symptoms of?

You probably shouldn't be fasting. If you are overstressed and it is a challenge for you to have that window, let me give a more specific example. So I had a guy, he's really type A, he's a physician, a patient of mine, and he would fast for hours, so at least 16 hours a day.

And when I got his blood work, his testosterone was work, his testosterone was low, his thyroid was low, he wasn't sleeping well, but he could do it physically. And that is just an example right away. If you are not feeling well, you should not be that should not be a fasting time. If you are under external stress, you are adding internal stress to your body. That is not a fasting time. If you are under external stress, you are adding internal stress to your body. That is not a fasting time. I just put more rocks in your back. It is. I mean, it's definitely if women want to get pregnant, you should not be fasting.

Right. If you have an eating disorder, it's just not your nutrition plan of choice. No, they used to call it anorexia back in the day. Right. You know, and women seem to be more sensitive to the potential pitfalls of fasting. Is that accurate? I would say women are more sensitive to just about everything. Okay. And as well, my women athletes, I know that there's a lot of discussion about post-nutrition training and it says, oh, when do you need protein?

I hear this stuff all the time. Oh, like post-workout. Right. Women actually think data is going to come out, that women actually need it within 45 minutes. I don't have any information to give you at this time. I can just tell you from the people, my friends in academia, this is one of the things that are going to come out.

But for men, you guys can kind of do whatever you want, and you don't necessarily need to get your nutrition quickly. Right? And you're still very resilient. Explain why do you think that is? I think that the hormones are different. I think the drivers of growth are different. I don't actually know, but this is just awesome.

So you're saying that for like, optimally for building muscle, if our goal is to build muscle, and that's what we're trying to do, for women it's gonna become, you think it's gonna be more crucial for them to hit that anabolic window for some time. I think that the research is going to show that.

Okay. Yeah, it's interesting. Now, what do you say about, because we've had gut health experts on the show, and they'll talk about how eating in an inflamed state, especially if you already have maybe some leaky gut going on or some issues, probably not a good idea to eat immediately after a super intense exercise, because you're already

inflamed, and you could cause your body to start to identify foods as foreign invaders as a result. So from my clinical experience, I've found that the more intense them that you are, the more quote, leaky gut symptoms you have and you have a driver of elevated levels of cortisol and hormones and you are putting in inflammatory stress in the body. Do I think that if you eat post-workout, that you are increasing that inflammation? I think that it's, I suppose it's possible. Have I seen that in my clinical practice?

I have not. I think it would be more of a splitting. I think it would be more crucial with someone who's like a really high high into like a, maybe a cross fitter after like a hardcore event or a wad versus the average Jaina Joe who's working out. I think that's a great point. I think it is the level at which you're operating.

Right. So my military, they eat after they train. Otherwise, they have a meltdown. The athletes, the professional athletes that I take care of. Rolling you under the bus right there, bro. I was just, you know what you, you know that's the take us off track here, but you mentioned the Taipei and I'm thinking Alpha Seal over here.

When you guys disagreed, you just fucking wrestle it out or what? How's that go down? No, like it is always right. Oh, okay, so he's good like this. So you got a little bit of, maybe a little bit of beta in you ever now? Not even close. I didn't think that was possible with the sea. Not even close. They're just smart, was possible at the scene. Not even close.

They're just smart. They're strategic. Okay. They know what buttons to push them in. Very calm under pressure. Excellent. So you work a lot mainly now with, or your specialty is working with athletes and people

who are high performing. I want to reframe that. I work with anyone who's ready to level up in their life. Okay. Whether it's an athlete, whether it's an executive, a mom, it doesn't matter. It's much more important to me, their mind frame. So I practice something called muscle-centric medicine. And it's the concept that muscle is the largest organ in the body. And it's the organ of longevity. And really the medicine that I practice is one of strength, physical strength, yes, and resiliency. The second part of that practice is one of mental resiliency.

So the individuals that I get are individuals that are really willing to really level up their life, take it to the utmost. And that's who I see. So I see Navy Seals, Green Berets, Rangers, military from Canada, athletes. But I also see moms and executives and trainers and people like that. So it's who the person is, not what they do. It's interesting because when I think of a functional medicine practitioner, I think of the focus is longevity and health and what you're talking about in the community, you're dressing and you practice functional medicine. What does that look like for your high performers?

If I'm understanding what you're saying is that how do I add longevity into my practice? Well, I'm very evidence-based. So while I practice functional medicine or integrative medicine, I am wanting what the patient wants for themselves. So I, one of my patients, won the Indy 500 last year. And I wanted what he wanted for himself. So we weren't necessarily planning for longevity for multiple races weren't necessarily planning for longevity for multiple races. We were planning for a season of racing. And I think that's very important.

There's a time for when you're thinking of longevity for the seals and then there's a time where you're thinking of what is the immediate performance goal? What is the immediate need deployment? So a lot of assessment is involved in and the beginning was to figure that out, right? And where the immediate need deployment? So a lot of assessment is involved in the beginning to figure that out. And where the person's at, a good physician is able to recognize patterns of illness, but it's an exceptional physician is able to recognize patterns of individuals. So there is a combination of who is sitting in front of you, what they

are willing to execute, how that will happen as well as what they're overall goal is. Let's talk about that. What are some of the things that you see in common with some of the, let's address seals and green burrays? Like are there, you better not put them together. Just kidding. Johnny, I love you. Or separate them actually for me, because I'm curious if the things that you're helping them

with are common with the average people, I would think that you would have different things that you're challenged with when it comes to coaching and helping. Well, the challenge is physically for the military. And I would say that the operators all go together. Green Berets, Ranger, Oceos, and Assault Roads from Canada. You are looking at tropical diseases, tropical illnesses

from pathogens, from overseas deployment, right? And then they come home and give it to their significant other. So this is something that is addressed, which is much less likely for someone who is in the US or living in more of a domesticated area. Heavy metals from shooting, firearms, blast exposure, of course, hormones, no sleep, stress. I will tell you on a very fundamental level, the operators have a capacity, I think they're genetically designed to be that. I think that their resiliency factor is very high. So the genetic potential is just much higher. I, from my clinical experience, when I look at their blood work and I know what they've been through,

I would say yes. Of course. I would think of course. I mean, it's just like a superstar athlete. I mean, you look at the at the highest level, the Tom Brady's. Like everyone's trying to follow his diet now and shit, it's like this guy is a specimen. I would I would have to say that just speculating, I've known quite a few performers at that level. And what always surprises me isn't their physical performance. Now don't get me wrong, they're usually very fit

and can perform at very high levels physically, but it's the mental performance that always surprises me. And I think it's there, I don't remember who we had on the John Brinkis, we had him on the show and he talked about, he had that show, what was the show? Support science. And they did this test on a stunt car driver, I think it was,

and they hooked him up and they were testing his heart rate and blood pressure and all that stuff. No, they did that with Travis Preston. Oh, that's a way. Yeah, who does that? Back flips in the air and shit and measured his heart rate. And right before he was about to do his big stunt, everything calmed down.

It's rather than getting, you know, disability to stay calm. Anciest, everything got calm. It didn't amplify until after the stump was over. And he says that that makes it, is that what you see? I see, and I've thought about this a lot because I want to be able to get the best for my patients. I've thought a lot about

the characteristics and the patterns that I've seen with these operators and those that really perform at an exceptional level. And there's four fundamental things that I see. And I'll be happy to share this. Yes, please. Number one is adaptability. Whatever the circumstance is, they rise to the occasion. And in relation, when we speak about health, if they get a diagnosis, if they lose their leg.

I have to tell you this story. I have a 15 year Navy SEAL who came into my office and he had had multiple deployments. Multiple deployments, 15 years, some of the most dangerous places on earth, home from one recent deployment on his motorcycle going five miles an hour. He was struck by a 17 year old girl texting and driving. Completely takes him out and he loses his leg. Get the fuck out of here. That's terrible. How pissed are you if you're in that situation? Exactly. How long does it take for an individual to recover? He is sitting in my office. And he's a preacher, he's 260 pounds, six foot, Texan farm boy. The guy was a tree trunk, right? Literally. And I walk in and say, hey, how you doing? As a female physician who treats them,

I get away with a lot more poking and prodding without the risk of getting punched in the face. Sure. So I went right for my sweet spot. Oh gosh, how are you doing? I know this must be so hard for you. And he's looking at me in total bewilderment. And he said, yeah, Doc, I'm really tired

and I'm having some phantom limb pain. And I said, no, no, no, no, I understand that. I mean, this must be so hard for you. And he likes to meet again. And he's like, how's that crazy look on his face? Doc, what are you talking about? That was two months ago. He lost his leg, right?

blows my mind. So immediately I call Shane. It's a chain. You won't believe who's in my office. You know, of course, he knew that this seal, this seals kind of know each other from the most part depending on what team. Tell him a story. Couldn't believe it.

And Shane looks at me or Shane says to me on the phone, yeah babe, what are you talking about? That was two months ago. Guy lost his leg. This is an example of adaptability. It doesn't matter what happens. They are over it. They move quickly through anything. And I see that with the military and those individuals that really excel in their own personal wellness. They're not telling the story from two years ago about how, oh, I broke my arm, or oh, I was in this car accident, or whatever the story is, the story's over.

So that's number one. Does that make you curious about the power of the mind? Oh my gosh, and they heal quicker. Right, that's what I'm saying. They heal quicker. It's amazing. Well, when you're in a state of stress, your body is either protecting itself

because it's stressed or it's healing and recovering and repairing, and it really doesn't do both very well at the same time So if you're stressed all the time and worried all time Your body is not gonna operate very well. And that's when shit starts to break down I couldn't agree with you more so they they just move quickly quickly through Adaptability is number one the second thing that I see with the operators as well as those that do very well is they have a lot of emotional maturity. And what I mean by emotional maturity is they're able to control their internal environment in terms of their reactions to an insult or their ability to

remain laser-focused and avoid temptation, whether it's cheating on their spouse or eating the wrong thing or cutting, training, whatever it is, they have this, there's an initial insult, a space, and then a response, not a reaction. They very much are in control and buttoned up in that internal environment. And then experience. We talked about experience, those that operated such a high level are able to learn from their past success. But more importantly, they're able to know where they fail, and they're able to learn from their past failures,

what they learned, they gather knowledge, and then they move that forward. And the fourth component of those that become exceptional that I see is execution. They don't wait for their ever to be a right time. They don't wait for motivation. They act. They are disciplined and committed and they act whether they feel like it or not. Now do you work with patients on these things or these just your observations? Because those would be hard things to, you know, because medicine is so clinical and measurement-based.

I do work with them. Okay. Obviously, the operators don't need my help in that area, but I always see the potential in my patients and I go for their underbelly. I always know where they're weak. I don't really care where any individual is strong, because I think in our society we focus on strength, who cares about that?

That allows you to become mediocre, but if you are constantly opening to the wounds of where you're weak, that's where you become exceptional. Where do you see actual measurements that will reflect when a person's mental state isn't you know where it should be? I do a lot of body composition. Okay. And I've had patients who have tried to and these are really amazing individuals that have tried to lose weight for 20 years. We work on the

obviously the medical aspects because you can't just think yourself well. I really don't believe that. If you have underlying issues, hypothyroidism, low testosterone, I don't care how much you think about your junk, it's not going to get better. So take that off the table, address the medical components, then when it comes to the physical components, I have seen profound transformations. 40, 50 pound weight loss, a purely out of post tissue.

I mean, really muscle gain, body composition that becomes exceptional. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, what comes to mind is, I'm sure you're familiar with the studies on the placebo effect and some of the more recent ones which There were some that were done with surgery where they took people with knee pain They took a group of people with knee pain and they cut them all open only some of them received the surgery The others they just sewed them back up so they just cut them and sewed them back up but all of them had

equivalent Reductions in pain and improvement, some mobility. And they think it's because the placebo effects are powerful anyway. But then when you have that visual, oh look, they cut me open. Now, I really believe they did a surgery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah questions I always ask my patients. Do you believe you're going to get better? If the answer is no, it doesn't matter how good a physician I am. There's a no-see-bow effect, too, right? If people believe they'll get a negative effect or not going to get a problem. Is that calling? No. It's not calling.

No. If they're not willing, number one, if the patients are not willing to really level up themselves I don't take them on as patients. Is that hard to manage if you know somebody doesn't really have a good clear Outcome of success to be able to kind of present the information to them and in a way that's Positive so it like promotes belief that they can get better, but you know that you have to be realistic I positive so it like promotes belief that they can get better, but you know that you have to be realistic. I think that if an individual is not willing to face themself, there's nothing I can do.

I would agree with that. I've had clients who want to lose weight, but if they don't think they can, and they're not willing to, I mean, there's nothing I can't do anything for them. I'm not a babysitter. You're showing up. It becomes a partnership. Right. If that works, fantastic. Do you clear about that from the beginning? From all my patients will tell you, yeah, immediately. Otherwise, it's not a match and it's a disservice to them. They need to find a different provider.

They need to find a provider that is gonna enable them and not make them capable. My patients wanna become capable. I feel like that's similar to where we've all evolved as trainers. When you first started, you probably take anything and everything, and then you realize like the ones that just aren't going to be successful or the ones that don't believe that they can do it or can follow protocol. Speaking of training, clients and like challenges, I think one of the biggest challenges that I had as a trainer was helping a woman going through minipause lose body fat.

Can you talk about that a little bit? There are hormonal shifts that happen, and it becomes much more difficult to, number one, build muscle, because surprisingly, estrogen and progesterone do play a role, as well as we all think about testosterone, we know that. Once you go through menopause, and these hormones are no longer available to the

tissue, it does become difficult to build muscle. Their output needs to be much more. In addition, what I've also seen is their thyroid changes. This does not go hand in hand with menopause, but I have seen this many, many, many times. And that changes the tissue homeostasis, so they become more injury prone. When the hormones also shift, they no longer can tolerate carbohydrates as much. They become much more insulin resistant for them to lose body fat, because we don't really care about weight. We care about the quality of the weight loss. They really have to streamline their carbohydrate intake.

So to be clear with menopause, estrogen, progesterone, lower, significant. Yeah, everything. Do you think the thyroid lowers because maybe it's trying to make up for the difference so it goes up at first and then goes down or... I think that's a really great question. I don't know that answer. Just something that I see. A lot of them become very thyroid resistant.

So they have active thyroid, but it is not necessarily penetrating to the tissue. So do you have like a checklist of you get a client that's like this? What am I looking at? Yeah, I tell you. So I do, the standard of care is blood levels of all female hormones, FSH, LH, progesterone, S, I do estradiol. I do look at all the estrogens, but I do that on a dried urine test, test, which is the Dutch test, as well as sex hormone binding labyrinth and testosterone free and total. And I'll be human. But I also look at their inflammatory markers. So I look at their CRP, I look at their sed rate, I always look at their eocinifal count. I do see

a lot of parasitic infections that have gone on for years. That doesn't necessarily correlate to menopause. But if we're just thinking about things that I look at, I do look at vitamin D everybody listening should have basic blood work. It has those things. I look at an omega index as well as either a Boston heart or an NMR and I evaluate from there. But when you look at the hormones, it's, you know, and they've also missed their period multiple times. Right. So let's, now that we've done all that, let's take a common client and what you normally

see and then normally, then where do you go from there? I obviously make sure that they have been up to date. I get a dexa, which is bone density, and they all have to see their provider. So they all need to have a female check, right? You don't want to add hormones to something that you don't know how, what the tissues like. And typically we start very low on bioidenticals. A little bit of bias.

I like to use oral progesterone. I think that it helps with anxiety, and I think it helps with sleep, and a little bit of testosterone. Okay. And then as far as like a protocol nutritionally and lifting wise, what is that kind of normally? They are what we say are is high protein, although it shouldn't be considered high protein. I am very protein heavy. That's the first macronutrient that I look at.

And all my patients for their ideal body weight, they should have one gram of protein. So if... Oh, for their ideal body weight. To start. So usually women that are coming to me that are postmenopausal, they have not been athletic their whole life, they're doing a lot of juice cleanses and a lot of other crazy stuff that I don't recommend. So we have to streamline them.

And the first thing to do is implement protein into their diet, give them a little bit of an adjustment period. And my carbohydrates are as low as I can go that they will tolerate. I typically start at 90 grams, and I think that that's generous. And that is typically in the form of vegetables. And their fat is as needed. Initially, you really want to kind of jumpstart their feeding program. I'm glad you touched on the protein

because this was something that we kind of used to go back and forth on amongst the three of us when we first started this podcast because we have a large body building following. And when we first, or early on in our career, protein was the magical macronutrient to build muscle and you've got bodybuilder guys that are recommending fucking three, four times bodyweight

of their protein. So we came out really kind of hard on it, but I always pushed back that in my experience, almost all of my female clients under-consumed protein. That's how I feel. That's how I feel. Is that the same thing you found, too? The data shows that the average female protein consumption is 68 grams per day.

That's why I thought. We know, as you age, the muscle becomes anabolically resistant and you require more protein at one time for muscle protein synthesis. These women need a minimum of 30 to 50 grams of protein per meal of a high quality protein. Their vegetable protein is not going to cut it. We really need to beef them up, if you will. So you're not for vegan diets then? When it comes to postmenopausal optimal health, I am not.

Now, why is that? Because you need full branch chain amino acid profile. And vegan diets don't necessarily support muscle tissue when you're young, you can do it. Because there's, as we know, there's two ways to stimulate muscle protein synthesis and that is number one resistance exercise and number two high quality dietary protein, typically the branch chain amino acids primarily losing. Plant proteins are notoriously low in these branch chain amino acids. You could easily add in branch chain amino acids to a vegan

nutrition plan and help support them, but my question to you would be why and the risk. So I've been at the bedside of hundreds of dying patients. I did a fellowship for two years at Washington University and part of that fellowship was in palliative care. And these are individuals at the end of their life. When you look at what got them there, you're looking at a ton of falls. So they fall, they break their hip, they have cancer, they burn through all their muscle tissue and they can't support themselves anymore. As you age, it becomes necessary to protect that metabolic currency, which is muscle.

The best way to do that is resistance training and high quality protein. For those individuals, I think that they are the older they get, they are at massive risk. And I think it's doing a disservice to humanity to do that. Yeah, you're preaching to the choir. I used to train a lot of doctors and one of the sayings that they would tell me is break a hip, die of pneumonia. Yeah.

You know, it's like, and so having more muscle is like one of the best insurances you can have against the, I guess the ails of aging in a modern world. And I think that in the geriatric community, it's not even an argument. So in a lot of scientific realms, there's arguments of things.

I think that it's not even a question. I just contributed a chapter to a medical textbook called Metabolic Therapy Dix or Metabolic Orthopedic Therapy Dix, something like that. I can give you a link to that. And it talked about sarcopenic obesity. And again, nobody is... And this is a bit of a conundrum because it used to be believed that

with obesity came a little bit of an increase in lean body mass because of the weight. Added weight. But what they find now is obese people with lower muscle mass. Right, and there's fat infiltration into the muscle. It's the equivalent of a marbled state. Yeah, it's like rib eye all over your body. And you have lower oxidative capacity. You have less strength. You have impaired muscle tissue. I think that it's very confusing

and it's very interesting because the people that are very outspoken are not an aging community. We have a group of 30 to 40-year-olds, maybe 50-year-olds that are talking about keto and paleo and veganism and all these things, but we're missing this whole group that as they age through, you cannot still do what you've done in your 20s and expect exceptional health. Now, why do you think the medical community up until now hasn't really placed resistance training in the same category as 30 minutes of vigorous aerobic activity?

Because they don't do it themselves. They just don't know. They are overweight and they, I don't know, fried ravioli. Which is delicious. Yeah. I don't know, I'm wearing it. Which is delicious. Yeah. I don't know. I'm wearing it.

I thought it looks like a ribeye. Well, you live in New York. You never had fried ravioli? I'm not. Oh my god. Although I have to say my diet has changed recently. Okay. I think that if you don't know, if you don't do something yourself and you have no firsthand

experience, it becomes very hard to understand what that's about. I would agree. I think wisdom comes from that. We talked about that earlier. Staying on the topic of changing hormones, I've gotten a lot of messages from female fans about birth control and how, when they've come off birth control,

how it's taking their body a long time to get normal, and there's even a term that's out now. I can't remember what it was. It was like birth control, something. Post, birth control syndrome. That's it. And there's, so there is a, I am actually not an expert in this.

Okay. I will tell you who the expert is, is Jolene Brighton. That's, that's the person that I'm okay. And she has written a whole book on this particular syndrome. What I have seen in my clinic is that it's very difficult for women to come back. They almost always do, but it takes a couple years. And what does that process look like?

Are you able to comment on like, is it just? It's, I think what happens is, again, this is not my area of specialty, but what I do see in my clinic is women that have taken hormones from exogenous hormones, their body shuts down. And they rely heavily on that pill that they're taking. Once you remove that, the body has to jumpstart itself.

And the pill depletes certain minerals from what I understand, some vitamins and minerals, and it just becomes very difficult. Yeah, it's just negative feedback loops. Like when a guy takes testosterone for years and then goes off, it's going to go. I mean, I treat guys who have been on testosterone for years and who need to go on testosterone now because of it. But in terms of post-birth control syndrome,

she's the girl and it definitely takes time to regulate. I will tell you, when you fix an individual's thyroid, I have seen that that menstruation comes back much quicker. And when you say fix, you mean naturally or with drugs or either. No, I, again, I'm very evidence-based. OK. When there is a way to do a more natural approach, I will.

But I'm very 50-50. If I don't try to naturally improve a guy's testosterone, I oftentimes do not naturally try to improve thyroid function depending on the severity of the illness. My core foundation of practice is the treatment has to match the illness. If someone has been struggling for three months, hey, let's give it a try naturally. If you come and you tell me, you've been struggling for three years.

Okay, I see. I mean, or you've been overweight for the majority of your life. Yeah, and you have a very cool, you have a very cool perspective because you have this 50, 50 functional, western side to you. Do you find are there common things where

maybe you approach the functional way and your peers kind of disagree with you and vice versa? Do you see that? Are there certain things that you tend to lean more the functional way on time? No, I tend to be a bit more aggressive because I've trained so much. So I've seen so much I've had such a high volume of medical experience that I have a sense of what will work more naturally and what will work medically. I will tell you with hormones I tend not to be natural. I mean, I use bioidenticals, but I'm not gonna wait and put you through a low testosterone experience for another six months.

Which is fucking horrible. The hardest part of my life was this last, so I'm on 16 months right now of no testosterone, taking synthetics. And I fucked around with it when my early 20s and totally changed my home on profile I could tell forever. In my early or third, when I turned 30, I got on replacement therapy. When I got into competing, I elevated the dose, especially when I was at the professional level.

For four years consistently, I was competing and taking, you know, higher doses doses. I peaked at 500 milligrams a week for probably on average, I was three to 400. And then I came down and came off. And then the last year was probably one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, for sure. That's tough. Yeah. So when you get somebody, like let's just my case, and I did the PCT, we did HCG. Yeah, we did all that. You did clummed. Yeah, so we did, I did all that. In fact,

I ran two rounds of that after the fact. And what I noticed was while I was doing all that, I felt really good. Like when I was on the HCG, I was like, okay, I feel really good. But then But like when I was on the ACG, I was like, oh, okay, I feel really good. But then about a month or two later, after I would come off the PCT, I started to fill the dips again. And I really have been trying my hardest and mainly for the things that motivated me

to come completely off is I want to increase my chances of getting Katrina pregnant. So that was the main driver. Because other than that, I don't have a problem with taking a small therapeutic dose to keep me fucking normal. And I would say a small therapeutic dose would not affect your fertility. Okay. Really? What does that dose look like? I think that if you're bringing it up to, it depends on what your physiological level needs

to be. If it's between 150 or 200, it really depends on you. I think you run into issues with fertility when you're doing it for extended periods of time and not taking a break. My patients that are on hormone replacement, I run them with testosterone three months, take a month off. Now, do they go just off to eat clothes? No, I give them HCG or Clomad, and you could go longer, but I do tend to try to cycle

them off for a short period of time. And do they become fertile within the time off, or they fertile the whole time? They're fertile the whole time. Interesting. I don't think that. See, I always thought that if you went on testosterone, you're, and they were even talking about making a male birth control. Not necessarily. You're not necessarily, okay?

Not necessarily. Again, you're not in, you have to look at the LHNFSH and you're not in super therapeutic windows. You are maintaining a natural healthy testosterone level. That actually makes sense because otherwise your body, I mean your body would produce that amount. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. And what do you, so my therapeutic, I was hanging between 50 and 100 milligrams like every 14 days is that was what my therapeutic was at. Did you say that's about? I would say that that would be fine. Okay.

Now how long would you recommend someone wait and do, let's say somebody's been on, like Adam, was on testosterone for a while, went off, did the post-cycle therapy, how long would you say that person wait to see if their body will kick back into normal production before, they say, okay, I just need to be on testosterone. I think that it depends, I think it's individual variability for sure.

Right, how long I'd been on for, how high my dose is. Yeah, and also there'd be no harm in going to yourologist and over someone to analyze your sperm. That's always the first thing that somebody does to see what we're looking at. I know I take care of some bodybuilders that have been on a 500 milligrams a week and they've gotten their girl pregnant. So everybody is different. Interesting.

Okay. Speaking of hormones, another question I get a lot are from other female listeners who ask about training nutrition if they should modify it according to their own cycle. Because of the changes in progesterone and estrogen and all that. I think that we would all agree that that is true. I think that it has to also be tailored to the female how they feel. Okay. I know a lot of women the week prior, really, while they may be strong, tend to be injury

prone or they're just not as coordinated. Okay. You know, so then you just have to be very aware of that individual athlete. Okay. So it's more listen to your body instead of like a general. Yeah. Okay. What is estrogen dominance and progesterone dominance? What are what is it?

I hear that a lot. I mean, what are the symptoms of that? What does that mean? The symptoms are actually from what I've seen very similar breast tenderness, heavy periods, PMS, those kinds of things, heavy cramping. Okay. And I think when you look at estrogen dominance, you can see where they're storing their fat, behind their tricep, hips, but it's just that their estrogen is much higher than their progesterone. The body loves to be in balance and functions much better that way. On the flip side, progesterone dominance is not nearly as common. And what I've seen with that is women tend to get very bad pms, not just one time a month, but a few times. And that's interesting.

Again, this is, it is very individual, and there's ways in which you can test for that. You can do a 28-day cycle test. You can also do a Dutch test. There are other alternatives. So these are alternative tests to do to see a spectrum of what's happening. How often do you see things like this? You test them and you fix certain things

and they don't feel better. Not often. Okay, okay. Cause in other words, are there other things that can be spread? Especially with hormones. I feel like hormones are so powerful that if you get those balance in right it normally makes a big difference. Well, sometimes you could have, but I guess you test for everything because you could have a nutrient deficiency that can feel like or look like a hormone in balance, right?

Yes, I have seen incredible fatigue with low ferritin levels and that is the storage form of iron. In my clinical experience, that number should be between 101 and 30, and I routinely test in that ferritin level in women is 30s, and you really need to actually just supplement ferritin and they think it's their thyroid, and they think it's their hormones,

but really it's like you said, it's some nutrient efficiency that is pretty significant. And I will say with anxiety, I see a lot of magnesium deficiency, and men that get very anxious when they go on testosterone, you really, it burns through magnesium because of the pathway. You definitely need to support magnesium and prognanolone.

Now, the supplemental form of magnesium is like the, what is it called? Magnesium citrate. Is that the one that you put in the, if you want to go to the bathroom? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So I was going to say, is that a valuable way of increasing your magnesium or should you take a little bit?

I would recommend magnesium glycinate or a, okay. So not the one that you put in your glass of water, drink it before you go to bed. Do not. Okay. So that's not going to give you better magnesium level. So I would, I would choose a different, the one that you put in your glass of water drink it before you go to bed. Do not okay So that's not gonna give you better magnesium level, so I would I would choose a different day The amount that you would need would really be difficult. It would be a laxative. Yeah Are there are there common supplements that you tend to recommend a lot that you see as far as we're talking about deficiencies right now? Do you I'm so glad you asked that question?

Everybody gets very fancy. I think that's a mistake. I think that if the foundation of your house is not built, it doesn't matter what kind of mushroom you're taking. If you do not have a good multivitamin, if you do not have a good vitamin D source, a fish oil source, and I, that's really a foundation. That's it. You start with that. And then you build. Do you give them farratin, magnesium, ashwaganda, a phytonutrient blend.

All of these other things are valuable. But if you are not doing the basics. Right. Take care of the big rocks first. Yeah. How common is vitamin D deficiency? I read about that. Every patient.

You're kidding me. Do you have a different, do you go by different parameters than what are recommended? Okay. If you are between 20 and 30, you're deficient. The optimal range should be in my opinion 60 to 80. Okay. So it's going to ask it because I know if you go to the like your traditional doctor, they'll measure you and the lab will say, oh, you're fine.

Yeah, if you're 30, you're good. You're good, but you're saying 60, around 60. Yeah, a minimum. Which is double what? Well, minimum. So are you having to supplement a lot of your patients and with vitamin D? I do.

How big are the doses typically? I'll do 10,000, I use daily. Oh, really? That makes me feel like I should bump mine even higher. Well, you just, he just did a vitamin D test. I use daily. Oh really? That makes me feel like I should bump mine even higher. Well, you just he just did a vitamin D test Research right? Yeah, both you guys were low. Yeah Do you guys remember what the number was? I don't remember well ours runs off the Everly well test Which isn't like their normal normal panel testing is a different scoring system

But I was low on theirs, but what I found crazy about that was I was already supplementing like 5,000 on theirs, but what I found crazy about that was I was already supplementing like 5,000. So you have to identify the quality and the sourcing of your supplementation. Okay. That is key. I see individuals come in saying they've been taking a certain type of vitamin D and I show them their blood work and I know that it's not necessarily. So he was just taking a crappy vitamin D. It's possible.

Wow. How about getting vitamin D. It's possible. Wow. How about getting vitamin D from like cod liver oil? That's usually how I get mine. Okay, so it's good then. As long as it's good supplementing. Yeah, it is. Because we know how they're gonna get in that shun. So I mean, let's have the problem.

I want to go back to your question. You said, what is a few conditions that you utilize, functional medicine versus western medicine. And what I found is that gut health really needs both. And I use a lot of peptides, and one of the peptides I use is called BPC157. Oh, I use that for my Achilles. Amazing, are you doing injectable?

So I did injectable. Okay. And so we kind of, this is something that we both kind of went back and forth on here, because he tried it, was not a fan of it. No, so I, so this is great marker, right? This is not a proof. No, I have a pharmacies that I prescribe it through.

Okay, so it's not gray market anymore. It's FDA approved or it's kind of. It's not FDA approved. Okay, so I, I used it and I felt kind of strange on it. And I read some obscure study that was done that showed how it affects the dopamine centers of brain. It does affect the brain, yes. Okay, so tell me about that.

I am not a BPC expert, but I will tell you there is some connection. They believe that it helps with TBI and brain repair. Okay. And that is one of the things that I actually use it for for the guys that do a lot of jumps that are jumping out of planes. There's a lot of microtrometer that happens.

Interesting. I thought it. I thought it amazing. Oh, so oral, so you, the liquid you just drink it? No, so there is an injectable form, which I use for individuals who are recovering from surgery or a Achilles or some kind of tendonitis or some persistent issue, a physical tendon body issue. If they have gut health issues or if they have had multiple brain assaults, I use it early. Interesting. And that is one of the compounds that you can really heal a lot of gut stuff naturally,

quote, naturally. If you want to be optimized, it is much more synergistic to use a foundational gut health protocol with a peptide. Well, that help, say, I used to play football for years and years and obviously I've accumulated a bit of, you know, I told retarded, if you want to put it that way. So if I was to take that orally, it was something that I could help kind of repair. It would be one piece. One piece.

You would think about doing hyperberec oxygen. You would really want to make sure that your hormones are on point, you have a high dose of fish oil. Want to be thinking about doing, I use nasal spray that goes to the brain in terms of what we think is possible brain regeneration. Those things. That's very important. You should also get checked for sleep apnea.

Yeah. I have had that brought up many times seeing the doctor. We joke. We joke. We joke. You're like, you need to test for this. We joke you're not wearing those fucking machines. No. We joke you're not a real operator unless you travel with a CPAP. Oh, yeah.

Well, as long as like bad asses are using those things, I guess I'm okay. You gotta wear the mask, dude. You have to get ready to do it. The Darth Vader mask. Scoop a gear. He's like, I'm trying to get my wife turned on and I gotta wear this mask. That's fine, you'll mind. Yeah. do it. The Darth Vader mask. Scoop a gear. He's like, I'm trying to get my wife turned on and I gotta wear this mask.

That's fine, you'll mind. Yeah. She's into weird shit like that. I started out. What's that called that one instrument from Australia? I had heard that. Did you redo? Yeah, I was like trying everything I could to prevent

using this machine. What? And that's actually more ridiculous, so I don't know what to do. Yeah, you did not. I didn't show you guys that. I had a crocodile done these things these. Oh my god. I didn't get into it though. That's good. That's hilarious. Not, not earthy enough. Wait a second. I want to go back to the BBC 157 because this fucker scared me away from it for a while because it made it did it made me feel weird. It does. And I didn't like the way I felt. I almost felt. I'm comfortable with weird.

That's not a problem for me. It's so interesting. You find that one medication and this all comes down to your genetics. In my clinic, I've begun using something called Opus 23, which will allow me to run what we know of your genes through an algorithm that can show me what supplements may be best for you. Oh, very cool. With BPC, obviously, we can't do that. It is like you had mentioned more of a gray market substance. There is individual biochemistry that will, you felt great on it. You felt like you were going crazy. Yeah, I felt flat. Right.

I think he needs brain repair, that's why. It's very interesting. Everything. We call him chicken little. He's fucking, he thinks he feels something from everything. Yeah. But he may be very intuned. Yeah, that's what he says. I think that's what he says. I think that's much more like. Very tuned. This tummy. She can tell. Yeah. I can't. She can tell. I saw a dream catcher in one of your posts. I only notice it because I

have a huge one over my desk. So what other there's other there's a bunch of pepper. I use Delta sleep peptide. So what's that? And that is a peptide that is from, I believe, a rabbit urine was where they first. Oh, this sounds perfectly soon. You know, listen, I think that this is where, I think this is where they originally isolated it

or something from, you know, like maybe it's rabbit brain, I don't know. Well, that's better. Yeah, I have to look. And I, I mean, Jackson with his rabbit brain, it's't know. Well, that's better. Yeah, I have to look. And I- Let me inject some of this rabbit brain. Yeah. And Delta sleep peptide for those individuals

that have terrible insomnia. So I use a GABA agonist product, and typically that works. It'll knock an operator out. It will knock someone with chronic insomnia out. So it's a GABA agonist? No, this is my first line. Oh, I see. It's a GABA agonist.

What would you use as a gabba agonist? A fennibut. Okay. Oh, yeah, I know a thetesis. Works fantastic. And if that doesn't work, then you have to really work on resetting their circadian rhythm. The only way that I've ever seen this work is utilizing a delta sleep peptide, which is also an injection. Now is that before bed or is that during the day? It's before bed or is that during the day? Okay.

It's before bed. Okay, interesting. And it can work within seven shots, or I have one patient, she's on it, it's been two or three months, and she's now sleeping for the first time. Now you say reboot the circadian rhythm. Does that mean they use it and then they get to normal, they don't have to use it anymore? Yes. Okay.

So it's not something you become dependent on, right, Pideo? No. And again, these are not typically used in practice. Now I will, I do wanna say just to the audience that you're a doctor. I am. Yeah, because you can get these things online. You should not, you should absolutely not. And any physician will tell you they are not FDA approved

and they will give you a consent and they will tell you what it has been used for, what the side effects are, you should also never be your own doctor, do not by things black market, look at the training level of your physician if they have actually done a fellowship is important. That's really important to identify.

Yeah, because there's like all these websites that sell research chemicals. And it stays on, not for human consumption, like this burns body fat, like, oh really? No. Who's that for? Yeah. What about red light therapy?

We've been hearing a lot about red light therapy. I use it myself. Do you really? Shane loves it. So now, what do you use it for? And will you recommend your patients? It's a photo biomodulation. Right.

And it is, from what I've seen, helps with mitochondria. I use it for regeneration, skin, eyes. There's some data to show that it improves eyesight and brain function. I just had a listener message us and say, they bought this small red light panel. Yes. And they travel for business.

And they used it to help get their clock to the time that they were traveling. It's acclimated. Yeah. To get acclimated. So they'd shine it on themselves when they woke up there to get that extra. I use a full spectrum light for that. I travel quite a bit. And actually Shane did bring one. It's a small full spectrum light. And that's what you would want to use. The red light does have other healing potential, which it can also help with tendon injury repair as well. I actually have a full panel, a full body account.

I do. It helps with hair regrowth too. It does. Yeah, it's funny. I noticed that. I was on a plane and I was talking about it with my girlfriend and this lady's like, oh no, it works for hair regrowth

and she was a, can't remember the name of her position, but that was her expertise. It was a really weird name. I talked about it on a previous episode. When you first came in and we started talking, you had mentioned, and I hope it's okay. I bring up on the show that you're expecting. I am.

Now, somewhat congratulations by the way. Yeah, that's incredible. Now, someone who has your level of knowledge and wisdom around hormones in the body and working with all these different patients, and now you're going through a dramatic change is your first. Yeah. What's that like?

Are you observing from the inside because you're such a clinician? Are you? Let me just tell you, it seems like a massive design flaw. We do. Say what? The first... You're calling out God right now? Yeah, yeah. Nobody tells you. Here's what they say, the first trimester. You're

going to be a little nauseous and tired. They do not tell you. you feel like you have the flu every day for three months Narly that you are woken up with nausea that your ability to train I love to do kettlebells and I love to wait lift. That's what I love. I love high intensity rowing ski or you name it. I love training with my guy When you get knocked up, out the window. Every time my heart rate goes up, I'm nauseous. At baseline, I'm nauseous. It is a complete change and as a physician, you need to be sharp and present. It is, I mean, to walk a block, we drove here three minutes. It's incredible, but it's incredible because I don't think that it's discussed enough.

The rise in progesterone makes you, progesterone converts to GABA, it makes you exhausted. They don't talk about that. Are you like a bloodhound right now? Can you smell everything in this room? Everything. Yeah. Shane, can I smell everything? I apologize.

Yeah. Yeah, you said you were going to be probably me. Yeah. You know, as someone is accomplished as yourself, obviously your tendency to go is to be type A. Yeah.

Do you view this like forced slow down as like a, is this like a, okay, I gotta learn from this. This is making me slow down. This is making me not work out as hard. It's been a challenge. And with that, I think that surrendering has been my biggest lesson. I cannot fight it.

I could push through it. I am very type A, but that would be to the disservice of my child. Right. I will tell type A, but that would be to the diservice of my child. Right. Mm-hmm. I will tell you this, my nutrition for years has been absolutely on point in pristine. High protein, that's how I roll, I train with Donald Layman, protein expert. If I eat protein right now, I will throw it up.

Wow, really? It is completely changed. I cannot smell beef, cannot taste it, chicken, even if it's disguised. I cannot. This is fascinating. I have gone from carnivore to carbibor. Carbibor? I'm a carnivore.

Now, you're entering in the second trimest right now. So which I hear is, I hear this, you get kind of this surge of energy kind of that. I know, that's what I hear. I'm waiting for it. And this is one of my fears with Katrina, because we're her and I train together. She's extremely fit.

She's also carries herself at a pretty low body fat percentage year round. And so I know that the doctors are wanting her to eat whatever put body weight, put some put some body weight on. So the mental challenge for her I think is probably the hardest piece of all of this right now. I went shopping yesterday because I really can't. I'm normally size two. I'm now a size four. And proportions are totally different. You haven't switched to the maternity pants yet? Are you fighting it?

Are you fighting it or what? So we've been shopping. It's coming. It is. It's coming. Absolutely. First of all, just because you're knocked up does not mean you have to wear plaid. No, they got options now.

No, they don't. They're terrible. They don't. Okay. Anyways, it has been quite a challenge. And I think, I think surrendering and having experience in wisdom knowing where you've come from and that it's not about getting back to anything, but it's always about moving forward.

Well, knowing what you know and then also your body telling you, we don't want protein right now. So what do you do? Do you force yourself or do you listen to your body? I can't. I will. It's amazing. There is some wisdom. I was just going to say there's some what your body has its own wisdom. Right. Tell us what you need and what you know. What are your cravings?

None. None. I hate eating, but all I eat is potato. This morning I had an exam which I don't even like the food I'm eating. It's horrible, But I try. There has to be some inherent wisdom. I would never miss a day of training. I've gone five days without training. He took me to Big Sur. I slept the entire time.

Oh. Thank you, honey. Did you get down? This one you get guy time. Oh, you're sleeping? I'll be back. Yeah. Oh, you're sleeping in the car at back. Oh, you're sleeping in the car. I can watch the Punisher finally. That's me.

It's like football with him. Yeah. Those are all just really shocking changes. You know, your body is you are pregnant, becomes more insulin resistant. The fetus requires carbohydrates. And I was reading some data. And the reason women have such a food a version is it's the body's way of trying to protect itself from pathogens. You're just

hypersensitive. I mean, we evolved for most of human history without super clean food that's everywhere. And so you got to be able to smell more and see more and taste more. And it's better safe than sorry is the evolutionary advantage, right? Not the other way around. So you just it's better off that you're super picky than not picky at all. And you potentially could eat something that would kill the baby. I have to eat every hour. Yeah. It's crazy. Every hour or I am a terror. I turn into a gremlin. Or probably get nauseous, right? Actually, I get massively nauseous. Interesting.

Now, what about nutrients wise? Are there any nutrients in particular that you're looking at? Are you testing yourself? I do. I do, of course. My office has cut me off from. No, but like, you can't.

No more laughs. You can't take a test every day. I'm going to go out of business. Exactly. Because I cannot eat any of the nutrients from foods, I can't eat a vegetable to save my life. I have to, I'm using a good multivitamin, a good prenatal multivitamin rather, which has methylated B vitamins full of acid. I am taking fish oil. I am taking vitamin D. I'm actually taking 12,000 I use daily. I'm taking calcium. Oh, calcium. I would have never recommended anyone to take calcium, but I do. I take calcium as well. And that really covers the basics for me. What about dietary cholesterol intake?

I've read that it's very important for pregnant women to consume dietary cholesterol, cause it's so important for the formation. Yes, for hormone, formation and brain, formation, fat. Yeah. That's why I'm eating eggs, I pull my nose and eat it. Just forcing it down. I am.

Yeah, so no chicken liver, I can't. I can't. No organ. I cannot. And I used to eat pounds of that. Easily a pound a day. Yeah. How gross is that? But I did it. Yeah. Well, no, I mean, dietary cholesterol is got incredible benefits for athletes, especially. Definitely. But yeah. So avocado, whole eggs, eggs have colean in it, which is important. Anything else that I'm thinking of, I did go on to a pickled egg kick for a while. Which is a sprinkle little cretin on your cereal. What I have found is that if I eat a food

for more than two days, I'm done. I can't eat it anymore. Oh, that's interesting. Wow, that's interesting. Now, what about the, because you straddle the line between Western You're over. I can't eat anymore. No, that's interesting. Wow. That's interesting. Now, what about the, because you straddle the line between Western and maybe unconventional, we'll say medicine, when you look at the, the, the process of having a baby, I mean, I was looking at these statistics, like it was like six months ago, and I was so shocked

at the rate of C section and the, and the, just the way we treat the whole birthing process. Like, woman comes in, not moving fast enough, here's your patosan, too much pain, here's your epidural. Now you can't have the baby, now we, are you looking into alternative ways of birthing? Right now, I am doing a lot of strength training for myself, squatting positions, pelvic floor training, really getting those movements under wraps and really

strengthening the muscles that I need to strengthen. I think that I actually have a great trainer, her name is Melissa Paris, and she specializes in prenatal postnatal and the fourth trimester in terms of abdominal breathing, pelvic floor exercises, squatting, pressing, really specific, a lot of lower body that I would have never done so much of. And also, when you're training, you're thinking about when you're relaxing, the pelvic floor and when you're contracting. And I think that that's not something that is really discussed.

Not enough. I think it's brilliant, especially when you talk about the drugs that they get numb that whole area. And if you already have a poor connection to all those muscles that are responsible for pushing. And then you're on your back on top of everything. Right. It's like no shit.

You're going to have no help there. Yeah. And I don't, I do plan on giving birth just because Shane, it's so important to him. I do plan on giving birth in a hospital-based setting, but not necessarily on a table. So there's going to have to be some discussion about with the physician and if there's a midwife involved or some other... They do those things. We had a doula come with us. It was really helpful because then she could get in different positions and they were cool with that. And so she kind of like made sure that we weren't getting like hustled into a lot of different ideas. I watched this whole

documentary on midwives and I didn't realize that they're really their experts on birth, whereas an OB is a surgeon. Yes, exactly. So you're planning on going in, trying to do the whole natural thing. Of course. I think also meditation and visualization prior, it plays a role in that,

and being able to become, under whatever kind of pain there is, and that this is a natural process. I think with much of life, we've domesticated ourselves and I think childbirth is no different than that. We've domesticated childbirth where perhaps it doesn't need to be that way. No, that's one of the interesting points that I've read too

is that one of the mistakes that women make when they start to feel that pain is to tense up because it's so painful versus kind of letting it happen and then going through the process, I think that's one of the more challenges. Because of Western medicine too, that we've been, oh, you're in a lot of pain here,

here's some more drugs. Well, we treat everything like it's clinical emergency and that medicine, we need medical intervention. And I think we forget, actually, we don't even realize the benefits that happen from doing things a particular way. Like, there's certain hormones and chemicals that are released through natural childbirth that help with the bonding process and help with the child latching on. Now, of course, we know about the microbiome and all the microbiota that the

babies exposed to through the vaginal canal and all that stuff. We're just starting to learn that now. So very fascinating. What's it like for you getting in, this is your perfect person to ask this too. That we haven't had somebody who's got this 50, 50 functional and western medicine. What do you see when you look at the landscape of like social media and things that are perpetuated in the western medicine side and stuff that's perpetuated in the Western medicine side and stuff that's perpetuated in the functional side, what bothers you the most? That there are a lot of experts with no expertise.

And I think that it is. And people send me posts all the time. One guy was talking about how fish oil, you don't need it. It's some big hoax. And I mean, the guy's an idiot. The Olympic Association, these guys are researchers from Harvard coming out with the necessary ways in which EPA integrate into the cell membrane. So not everyone's opinion is equal.

It's so ridiculous. It's like I said, non-experts posing themselves as experts and not knowing what they don't know. I am going to make mistakes, right? So I will make mistakes and I will own those mistakes. It's impossible to be 100% correct all of the time, especially with pregnancy brain, whether it was rabbit urine or rabbit hormone, I don't know. I will make mistakes like that, but I will never go and say something that is so grossly inappropriate or not backed by some kind of data. It's okay to say you don't know. I would say that social media does raise a lot of awareness to a lot of different things.

I think that you have to vet your sources. What about the clinical Western medicine side? What annoys you most about that side and some of the information they put out? Because I mean, we all grew up in the, we were all kids of the 80s and 90s and I was taught that all fats are bad, goes low fat as possible, cholesterol is bad, don't eat cholesterol, vegetables are great, no matter how processed.

And now we know a lot of that is totally wrong. And man, in fact, have contributed to this, it will be city epidemic. So. There is a lot of, the thing that bothers me most of Western medicine is the agenda-driven perspective. I think that when they did say the RDA and they came up with the amount necessary for protein, which

is pointing grams per kilogram, which we know is massively 50% below what is needed for any kind of optimal health. Nobody took a look at where those numbers came from. And this came from a group of very pro-vegetarian individuals. Interesting. I didn't know that. And that's just one example. group of very pro-vegetarian individuals. Interesting. I didn't know that. And that's just one example.

That trickles down to almost all of medicine that is questionable. We got the carbohydrates thing wrong. Like you said, we got the fat thing wrong. We of course got the protein thing wrong. We of course got the protein thing wrong. It is where is the propaganda and who is giving this information? Yeah.

There was a, maybe it was two years ago. I think it was Texas A&M, published a study on LDL, which we all know is the bad cholesterol, right? But they found that higher LDL meant more muscle and more strength and healthier muscle tissue. So what's up with cholesterol?

Now it seems like it was bad and now the FDA is saying it's no longer a nutrient of concern. I know old school strongmen and bodybuilders have known for decades that if you increase your cholesterol and take you get stronger. Yeah. I think having a good HDL is essential. I think that the lipid association and the American Heart Association pretty much agree that LDL over 190 is dangerous. I think that there are certain standards of care that

wouldn't initiate one to begin a statin. I think that there are lipidologists who specialize in this. And if cholesterol is a concern of an individual, they are very prudent to go to someone who really will break down their NMR, their Boston heart, and get a calcium score, and really do cardiac evaluation. I think the end point is aflooscarosis, and that's really what you're looking at. I think it's a combination of all of these things and not one biomarker. You're also looking at inflammatory and morphogen

and all that stuff. Friperenogen, CRP, SED rate, all of these other things. Said like, so it's funny whenever we talk to somebody who really is an expert in a field, they will typically stay in their lane, and I like that you do that. You say, oh, this is what a lipidologist would talk about or it would be being a disservice. And I was trained by Donald Layman, who is arguably one of the finest scientists. And one of the things that make

him a fine scientist is his ability to have integrity. I could certainly give you what I know. But that would be doing a disservice to your listeners. I could give you the basic sure. But what they should do is they should listen to someone who has done a clinical fellowship, and this is their expertise. That's appreciated. That integrity is appreciated. All right, well thanks. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbumble at Mind Pump Media.com.

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