Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi - 133. "She has $7k in cc debt—just 3 months after I paid it off for her" (Part 1)

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Becki is 42, Dustin is 36. Becki moved to North Caroline from California two years ago, into Dustin’s house but is feeling disconnected from her family, like the space is still his, not shared. Her troubling credit card history keeps them from getting married and building a future together. This episode is brought to you by: Superhuman | Get a free month of lighting fast email at https://try.sprh.mn/ramitsethi. Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at https://facet.com/ramit. Babbel | Right now, when you purchase a 3-month Babbel subscription, you’ll get an additional 3 months for FREE. Just go to https://Babbel.com and use promo code RAMIT. Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at https://meetfabric.com/ramit. DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to https://joindeleteme.com/ramit for 20% off. Links mentioned in this episode “I make $24K a year but my truck costs $1,600+ a month” (Part 2) Connect with Ramit Get the Podcast Newsletter and exclusive Q&A about the show Get Money Coaching with Ramit  Download the Conscious Spending Plan Get my New York Times best-selling book Get my no-numbers journal Other episodes Instagram Twitter YouTube Submit a question for the newsletter iwt.com/askramit If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

Let me share some of the coolest ways that my community has recently used money to live a rich life. One member did a month-long honeymoon in Europe after deciding she didn't want a big wedding. Another member bought a VW SUV that was their dream car that they've wanted for years. And another member made a rule that any time she buys a ticket for an event, she always buys a second so that she can bring a friend. These are just a few examples of how my money coaching members have built systems to use their money. Notice that there's no more anxiety, that they have a smooth running system. They know when their debt's going to be paid off. They can feel comfortable spending on the things they love.

They can actually spend less time on their finances while living an amazing life. In my money coaching program, members also get access to live events every month, including topics like money with aging parents and how to create amazing vacations. That was one of my favorites where I shared how I spend my money on travel, plus Q&A directly from me. If you want to start building your rich life today, join us and get instant access to our back catalog of years of live calls. Check out IWT.com slash money coaching to join now. That's IWT.com slash money coaching to join the program right now. Why are you still putting things on your

credit cards that you aren't paying off every month. I'm not going to bring all of mine to the table to piss it away. Because that's what's happened for two years. We've made $180,000 and we have nothing except you live with me in my world that I help facilitate and try to make your life easier. In a way, I feel sometimes like I pay a tax for you. living here. If we're just going to continue down this like road of parallel lives, if we're not going to do this and if we're not going to become this team and like really attack life and create

this like extraordinary life, then then I have to rethink why I'm here. Becky's 42 years old. Dustin is 36. They've been together for four years. They're not married. And she moved from California to North Carolina into his house. Becky feels like they are not making progress in their relationship. And of course, money is playing a huge role in this. Now, before I speak to a couple, I review their applications, I look at the notes, but I try not to make any judgments because I want to hear their stories. In this case, Becky was the one who filled out the application. She mentioned she was frustrated that he hasn't proposed, frustrated that she moved across the country, leaving all her friends and family behind, frustrated that they keep their money separate, and he never seems

to have money to improve their house, even though he has money for other things. Before we dive into this episode, I want to make sure you're signed up to get my 2023 gift guide. This Saturday on my newsletter, I'll be sharing the system for giving amazing gifts, how I automatically save for them, how I find unique gift ideas, and of course, three holiday gifts that I'm excited to give this year. You can only get it this Saturday, December 9th, by making sure you are signed up for free at IWT.com slash podcast newsletter. Now, let's hear from Becky and Dustin. How often do you talk about money in your relationship? Once a week. Yeah, at least once a week. And what's the context when it comes up? It's normally Becky trying to get me to spend money on something. Okay. Is that true, Becky?

I don't think that's probably 100% accurate. But I probably do bring it up the most. We talked about it a lot because it's definitely, it's a big deal to Dustin. It's kind of like his big red flag. And from the very beginning, it was like, I'm not going to be with someone who has these patterns with money. And I'm not going to be with someone who, you know, like this and that. So, I mean, money has always kind of been there. We're trying to figure out how to bring our money together and a few other things, but not really. Okay.

How long you've been trying to figure that out? I guess like since she moved in. How long ago is that? Two years? What? What? Trying to figure out how to your combine your income for two years? Yeah.

Everybody does it differently, I guess. No. Speaking as the guy who wrote the book on it, that's not normal. All right. That's like me going to Taco Bell and saying, I've been trying to figure out what to order at Taco Bell. You know, they got the crunch rap, but then they also got those.

cinnamon twists that all Indian people love. And then you go, well, Rameet, how long you've been thinking about this Taco Bell menu? Two years. And everyone in the room is like, drop dead silent. They're like, what the f? Like, what's the problem? Two years. That's a long time.

All right. Okay. Okay. Dustin goes, all right. Becky, do you think it's a long time to go two years trying to figure out how to combine your income? Everything takes Dustin a long time. Did I catch that you were married before? Yes.

Yes. Okay. And how long were you married for? I was married for 10 years, high school sweethearts. We were together 15. All right. And you two have been together for how long? Four years.

Okay. How serious is this on a scale of 1 to 10? 10. I feel like I've just kind of gotten to the point because I had to get here with some other issues where it was just like I have a choice to make. I can either be with him and accept that he takes longer than I like to do things or I cannot be with him. And what did you decide? I'm still here. It's just that we have talked about combining and like taking this next step forward.

Like, you know, combining our finances, getting married, doing the things. and we kind of talk about it and we agreed that the end of this year we're going to do it. But when we try to come up with like what is that going to look like, we kind of talk about it, but then we can't really come to a conclusion. So then we just stop talking about it. I just feel like this pattern has kind of really overwhelmed me. I feel the most when it comes to money because he really does make the big decisions because as he's going to tell you, like he has.

has the money. So it's just not a great feeling for me, especially when I feel I've given up a lot for this relationship to work. I just want to feel like we are actually a unit and a partnership and like we're going to do this thing because if not, if we're just going to continue down this road of parallel lives, I'm, I don't want to, I'm missing out on a lot. I have elderly parents. They live in California. My family's in California. My friends are in California. My gym's in California. My whole life is in California. And if we're not going to do this, and if we're not going to become this team and really attack life and create this, like, extraordinary life, then I have to rethink why I'm here.

And what does rethink some things mean? I feel like that's a word or a phrase that we're not really being specific about. I mean, rethink if this is the right relationship for me. Okay. I not only live in Dustin's space, state, life, but also on Dustin's timeline. when he's ready to do things, that's when we do things. We couldn't be in a committed relationship

until Dustin was ready to do that. We couldn't move in together until he was ready. We couldn't say I love you until he was ready. It feels like I am in a position where, one, I am having to prove myself, like that I'm worthy of being a partner that I have to prove that I can show him. that I can be responsible with money in order for him to want to build a life with me. Things that I want or I feel are important. Maybe don't get done or happen because, you know, he has the money. It makes a lot of courage to say. I know it can't be easy.

And I suspect from the way you said it that you've probably thought about it a lot. So thank you for opening that up to me. Justin, what do you hear when you heard Becky say that? I've kind of already knew most of that without her saying it. But what do you hear when she said it? She's upset? I mean, I guess my, so the root of it would be, I guess, like, we're trying to figure out how to combine finances.

But when she moved in, she had a bunch of credit card debt and stuff like that. So I was like, hey, I'm going to help out. I'm going to do these things. This is all I need you to do. Do these things means what? All she had to pay for was like our groceries for the house. You paid for everything else? Yeah, pretty, I mean, for the most part, I think we can somewhat agree to.

I don't pay her car payment and stuff like that. Okay. So I took care of all that under the assumption like this credit card debt would be paid off. and I was told it was going to be like a year and a half or a year in three months and it's turned into like two years. And how do you feel about that, Dustin? I'm not super comfy. I kind of figured out a lot of it

where it stood here recently when we filled out the little paperwork because I don't ask because I don't, I try not to ask so there's not some sort of conflict. All right. So you came into this relationship and it sounds like you talked about money early

on. How did he come to know about your credit card day? He asked, like, really early before I moved here. Damn. Now, that is unusual. I like that. What'd you say, Dustin? You handed over a questionnaire. Fill this out. And make sure you hit all those required fields, because I need to know this information. No need to find out later. So what was it like, Becky, hearing that that's quite a direct, assertive set of questions. I kind of like that. How did it feel for you? I mean, it was fine. Our first, six months of dating was all talk. Like we were 3,000 miles apart. I was still living in California. He was living in North Carolina. So, I mean, we questions were, it's kind of like a joke. Like we would look up these lists of questions. We would, I mean, that's all we did. So, you know, we were both

going through some tough times. And the only reason that our relationship worked was that we were like uncomfortably honest about things from the get go. And we were not scared to have hard conversations early on, really early on. Dustin tells me that you had credit card debt. How much credit card debt did you have back then? I had two loans that were like, they weren't credit cards. They were loans. They were like $8,000 and $9,000 maybe.

And then I had two credit cards that were probably four and five, somewhere around there. So you had $26,000 of debt. I think that was about it, right? I know she has a good career, so it doesn't scare me. There just needs to be a plan to, you know, take care of it, I guess. This is a conversation I've had with my friends back when we were single. If you found out the person you were dating had debt, would you be okay with it? And then naturally, the question came, how much debt?

What kind of debt? If it was $10,000 in student loan debt, nobody cared. if it was $25,000 in credit card debt, people definitely cared. For a lot of people I was talking to, they told me it speaks to a lack of control with money, maybe behavioral issues with money, is that if you have debt, any kind of debt, the most attractive thing you can do is have a plan and be open about it. Like, yes, I have this debt. I went to school for a master's.

Or when I was in my 20s, I wasn't paying attention to my finances. But now I've read books. I've listened to podcasts. I've made a change and I'm paying off my debt aggressively. I know exactly when I'll be debt-free. And it's important to me to be in control of my money. How can you not love that? If you are not sure how to make that plan

and you want the help of other people who have paid off their debt and they're improving their money to live a rich life, you can join my coaching program at IWT.com slash money coaching. We'll be right back. Just guess the average wait time to see a doctor in the United States. I'm not talking about a specialist, just a regular standard family doctor. You think it's a week, two weeks?

Nope, it's over 30 days. So a lot of times whatever symptoms you have are going to be gone or maybe worse by the time you get to that appointment. I don't want you to have to wait weeks to see a doctor. I want you to get seen faster by an in-network doctor using Zoc Doc. Doc Doc is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. They have over 150,000 doctors across all 50 states in 200 plus specialties, including mental health, dental, primary care, whatever you need. Just filter for

doctors based on insurance, location, ratings, even virtual care options. And Zoc Doc appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. You can look through your options, but, book an appointment and you are done. If I needed to find a new doctor today, Zock-Doc-D-O-C-T-O-C-T-C-T-C-com is what I would use. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zoc-D-C-com slash Rameet to find and instantly book a doctor you love today.

That's Z-O-C-D-C-D-C-com slash Rameet. And I want to thank Zoc-Doc-T for sponsoring this message. There's a pretty cool TikTok trend going around right now that I really love. It's called Admin Nights, Basically, you get your friends together, you get some snacks, maybe some drinks, and you do all the infrastructure stuff in life that most of us skip over. If you're going to set up an admin night, here's my suggestion for you. Use Zoc Doc to book your health appointments and you will be done fast.

Zoc Dog is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. They have over 150,000 doctors across all 50 states. in 200 plus specialties, including mental health, dental, primary care, whatever you need. Just filter for doctors based on insurance, location, ratings, even virtual care options. And Zoc Doc appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. You can look through your options, book an appointment, and you are done. If I needed to find a new doctor today, ZocDoc is what I would use. Stop putting off those doctors appointments and go to Zocdoch.com slash Rameith.

find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's ZOC, doc, doc.com slash Rameet. Zokdoch.com slash Rameet. And I want to thank Zokdoch for sponsoring this message. Now, back to the show. It's hard to tackle life if you're $28,000 in credit card debt. True. Did you tell her that?

I mean, pretty much. Yeah. What does that mean pretty much? Like when she moved in, you know, when she finally moved in here, I was like, When she was living about an hour and a half away, it's not in my business, I guess. But once she moved into the house, I was like, things are getting pretty serious. So what is our plan to take care of these things? All right.

Because I don't want to just paddle upstream the rest of my life. Dustin, is it fair for me to say it's really important for you that your partner is not in credit card debt? Yeah, I'm not really prioritized saving for vacations. I don't see why we should be going on in. Well, we made a plan. He said, I'll pay all of the, like, you don't have to pay me rent and you don't have to pay for utilities. You just pay for groceries and all of our subscriptions. You just need to worry about putting your extra money on your debt.

All right. Did you? Yeah. All right. So here we are X years later. What's the deal? Well, in typical me fashion, I was paid off in January, or, in July, it was paid off.

And then I did a job in July that I was supposed to get a pretty big check for. And I spent money before I had it. So I just put it on the credit card because I was like, oh, I'm going to get that check in September. And then that didn't come through. It still hasn't come through. It's Irish taxes or something. And then just little things, you know, I just kind of run it back up. How much?

seven. Yeah, I don't know. I just didn't, I don't know where the seven came from or how it goes back up, July, August, September, seven grand in like three months. Like, we, we worked all this time to, like, get it paid off to go seven grand at three months. Yeah, I mean, a chunk of it was while I was in Ireland, like hotel and food and all that. and you know and then a chunk of it was the party

I thought I was going to have that money so I was like let me just you know I really want to make this party so special so let me splurge a little bit on this and that so that was probably the biggest chunk of it and then you know the other stuff has just been flights Ciel Stone and

flights California and you know medical stuff and then just yeah odds and ends just little things probably me just spending more than than i have coming in and not really realizing it i ask a question of course do either of you feel satisfied with what just happened right there no becky not particularly so can we try that again let's ask the questions that you really want to ask but you have not said out loud. Dustin?

Why are we still putting things on credit cards that we're not paying off at the end of the month? Love that question. Can I just do a quick reframe? It's not we. You. Is it? No. Ask her the question again and ask it with the proper words. Sorry. Why are you still putting things on your credit cards that you aren't paying off

every month. Because I don't always have the cash to do all the things that we make plans to do in our life. And I don't want to ask you for it because I don't want to hear it. That you don't get to do the things you want to do because you have to pay for both of us. And you didn't sign up for this and you already had that marriage. You're not going to do that again. So I just put on my credit card and figured out later. When does it stop?

In my head, I was at 13 months. Hey, we're going to get this paid off. It ends up going whatever. 17 months, I'm like, boom. Here's what I feel is a little bit, pretty good bit of money to get us and me showing, hey, I believe in what we're doing. This is me putting in my effort to move us along in life. You don't have to worry about this no more. This is stressing you out.

I'm in a situation. How much money did you give? Two grand. Two grand. And that was a gift? I mean, it was for a birthday. Okay. All right.

That's what I was told she owed on her credit card. Great. So you said, hey, you're close to the finish line. Here's 2K. Wipe it off. Yeah. Okay, great. So I did that.

And then to know, like, it's already back to $7,000. And we're here trying to join money and things like that, but we still haven't done where you still haven't paid off your credit cards. So us joining money or us. saving money to go here. It needs to be paying off a credit card. And that should be it's been the number one goal for 24 months

at this point. Becky? I definitely I mean yes. I mean, you're right. So you charge the expenses to your credit card. And what are the consequences of that action?

Well, then I feel guilty because I'm not supposed to be doing that and we made this agreement. And then I feel stressed. because now I have more money to pay off. What else? Think about your partner. I know that if he knew he would be upset and disappointed. And what about the connection between you?

When you charge up your credit card again, what does it do to the connection, the intimate connection between you two? I mean, it makes it difficult. It puts another barrier there because that's like a big deal to him. And I think we're here because, Becky, you wanted some certainty around where's the relationship going, right?

Which is a totally fair question. So it seems like part of the behavior here, part of the consequences of that is that it makes the relationship less certain. Is that accurate? Yeah. So have you made the connection with yourself that when I charge up my credit card and go back into credit card debt, it makes Dustin hesitant to commit more deeply to this relationship. No, I've never made that connection. That's a pretty startling moment.

If you're listening or watching this on YouTube, you might be looking around like, what? How could you not see that? But I think it's important to highlight that a lot of people have difficulty seeing the connections between cause and effect. This happens for money where people will buy a car, but they don't understand that a $65,000 financed purchase affects their retirement. And they don't understand how much it'll affect their ability to vacation or even their

spouse's stress level. This lack of understanding. This fact also happens for health and wellness, where we rarely understand the connection between what we eat and how it affects our body, our energy, our mood, even our skin. And of course, this happens for relationships and work and parenting. So it might seem obvious to you, the cause and effect here. But I can guarantee you there's one important part of your life where you are ignorant to cause and effect or simply in denial about it. This is human nature.

It happens to you. It happens to me. It happens to all of us. Now, back to Becky, who's going to share a very interesting way that she rationalizes her behavior. No, I've never. I've never made that connection. Sit within for a minute. Tell me what comes to mind as you think about it

and how you feel about that connection. I mean, I guess I have thought about it because I've often thought he's never going to marry me because I'm never going to be frugal enough or I'm never going to be financially responsible enough because I've always been this way. I've always, I mean, so I guess to say I haven't thought about it is a little bit of a fib, because I have thought about it.

And so I think sometimes then I go in the spiral of like, he's never going to make that commitment. He's never going to do this because I can't do this. And then I get upset because I'm like, well, I shouldn't have to like prove myself or like be perfect for him to want to be with me. But no, because that was a thing that he was very clear about. So, I mean, I guess I just get in these, like, kind of spirals about it and probably just end up feeling frustrated and, like, it's, I don't know, like, it's my fault. Like, I'm not worth marrying. Why do you feel like that? And why have you never told me that?

I guess I thought, I feel like I have told you that. I feel like I've kind of told you that it makes me... I mean, but maybe I've never said it. I guess maybe I've never said it that blatantly. And if I haven't, it's probably because... I guess I was afraid if you knew that I didn't think I could change, then you wouldn't want to be together. Like, if I was worried, then you would be more worried.

What's the end goal? I've always believed like I want her to be able to spend money on like if she wants to say I'm talking about the end goal what's the end goal Oh to be married one day

Is it like a year or 10 years? No I would say So for me the main thing Would be like to see this team come together And like Go down the road and be like Okay you know two months Probably not enough

I mean I can be anybody for two months. I mean, I need to see you like, we're doing what we want to do and this is going to work. For how long? Again, I don't, I'm on a feeling thing.

I don't really, I'm not going to be like seven months or something like that. And then I'm going to propose and have this grand plan. Becky, you see how I'm asking these questions? How come I'm the one asking these questions and not you?

I, probably because I got tired of asking. enough. Do you mind if I read a little bit from your application? You okay with that? Yeah. Okay. Have you seen this application, Dustin? No. I think she might have read it to me, but she might have like, gave me the cliff notes.

She writes, my boyfriend and I have been living together for almost two years, and we do not know how to move forward in terms of money, and it feels to me like our relationship. Since before I moved in, I was clear that I want to change the house or not stay here. I have been patient, but in a few months it will be two years. He will do one thing like the floors and will want a medal for that. I'm 42. This is Becky.

I'm living 3,000 miles from my home, friends, and family. I need to know that if I am here, it is for something special. I need our relationship to be special. If we aren't going to be a team and if we aren't going to work together to create something amazing. Why am I missing out on life with every other person I love? That is the crux of our conversation today. So do we want to talk about that now?

Yeah. It just feels really hard because I have to wait for you to be ready for everything. I know you think the backyard is like so stupid or the house is so stupid, but I want something that feels like ours. And I don't know. I just, I want something that's, that's ours.

I just want to feel part of it. And I don't sometimes. Okay. I mean, I don't. So it's hard for me to feel like we are building a swimming pool in the backyard when it's all of the money from my account in a way that's kind of hard for me to understand how it's ours

because in my theory, like if we went and bought something or we were doing something, it would be we did it. Like, not I paid for it and we enjoyed it. I mean, that's my disconnect. I think that's why I've been wanting to like join things because I don't know how else to contribute so that you don't feel like is it going to be that until I have $67,000 in savings? Like it's not it's not yours.

When does it stop being yours and when does it become ours? Like not until I match you because that's going to be years. So that's what I don't understand. I mean, for me, like if I'm financially putting the book bag on of like, oh, we want to have all these things for ourselves, like, we want to build a gym so that we can have it, the gym's for you. I would be buying it for you. And now it would be ours, but I would have to financially prepare all of that. And then I told you this a long time ago, we can go buy whatever house you want. And if I feel sometimes if I put a pool, build a gym, did it all of it, it still would not be enough.

In a way, I feel sometimes like I pay a tax for you living here. Like I'm already at a deficit because you're so far away. And it's like I don't, I can't pay that financially. I can't put a beautiful pool out there and then overcome. every time you miss home. And you're like, but we, we have this nice cool. I don't want to spend all of my money to do it. Until now, it's been polite, like a visitor was in their house.

But when they start talking to each other, it starts getting much more concerning. We'll be right back after this. All right, how many of you have a parent or a loved one that clicks on every link they get in their old email inbox? I have a friend that is constantly having to go over to her parents' house, wipe out whatever random pop-up is appearing on her dad's browser, because he basically just clicks whatever comes in his inbox.

And the thing is, it's very easy, especially for older people to get targeted and have their data compromised by clicking on the wrong link. Just a single button. That is why I personally use Delete Me. Delete Me is a subscription service that removes your personal data from the internet. We're talking about things like your full name, email, phone number, address, even your parents' names, all found and removed.

They've been the leading expert in personal information removal for the last 15 years. They were recently named Wirecutter's number one data removal service, and I personally use and pay for Delete Me. And I love it. And I know you will too. Start this year smarter and safer with Delete Me. You'll get 20% off all consumer plans when you go to join DeleteMe.com slash Ramit and use promo code Rameith at checkout.

That's join deleteme.com slash remit, code Rameith for 20% off. I have this email software that I love so much. I pay for it personally. And just 20 minutes ago, I used one of its AI tools. I'm currently doing a pitch to some journalists for this story that I want to run. And I said, go through my emails for the last two years, identify every top tier journalist that I've interacted with, and then sort them based on this story that I want to pay.

pitch and pull their email addresses for me. It did it in 20 seconds. You can use this software called Superhuman. Today's sponsor, Superhuman is an AI native email and calendar for busy professionals and teams. It learns your voice so we can pre-draft email responses for you. This stuff is important because momentum is what helps you drive forward. The auto draft feature that I mentioned, that drafts follow-ups for you automatically, also schedules replies so nothing falls through the cracks. You can make sure that somebody responds to you if you need to check in on it. It's all automatic. And its auto archive feature can help you keep your inbox clear

by letting you automatically archive entire categories of emails so they never even hit your inbox. My favorite thing of all is how fast this software is. You can do everything from the keyboard. You can use shortcuts like you wouldn't believe. You can get through tons of emails in minutes. My team and I at IWT use superhuman. We love it.

And I think you will too. Turn your inbox into momentum. Sign up for Superhuman Mail today. Go to superhuman.com slash remit three and try it for yourself. That's superhuman.com slash remit three, the number three. Now, back to Becky and Dustin. Are your parents still together? Yeah.

What do you remember about them as it relates to money when you're a kid? I mean, my dad worked, ran his own business. my dad ran his own business. My mom pretty much stayed home until I was like 12. And then she went back part-time. My dad pretty much took care of everything. Why'd you laugh just a second ago? Because Dustin runs his own business and I'm my mom and I spend,

I just like all of a sudden was like, oh my gosh, we're like literally like reliving my life. Okay, I like that. Yeah. So what happens? My dad never said anything explicitly, but he was always like live below your means. Like they always made a point to let me know that like when they bought a new house,

they only bought a house for what they paid like made on their last house. So they never went and lived like extravagantly. My dad ran a business and he would always tell me about how he had like a $100,000 line of credit at a bank that he'd never touched in 30 years. So it's good advice. Yeah, yeah. My dad's great. So, but you mentioned that you've been living above your means for years now.

Where'd that come from? That probably came from my mom. So my mom always probably spent a little bit more. I mean, we always had it, but she would just, like, squirrel away money all year so that she could, like, go super over the top at Christmas. I mean, I can remember Christmases that were just, like, stupid. And she always was like so nervous about money and not having enough money to pay the bills. But we did. But we did. So it was like, I never really understood why she was like that because we were never not.

I mean, we always had enough money. But she was always like, oh, I don't know how I'm going to cover this. I got to move this money from this account. I got to get cash from this stash that I've put away all year and I have to do this and I have to do that. Do you see any connection with that and your behavior today? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I mean, I didn't realize how much Dustin was like my dad. I mean, that was the laughter epiphany was like, my dad has a lot of money stashed away, squirled away. I don't even know if my mom knows how much he has.

and in that relationship of your parents, your mom, nervous energy, saving money, but then overspending. And then who would come to the rescue? My dad, he paid off all her debt when they first got married. Oh, gosh, any similarities? 40 years later. I never wanted to tell you that.

Look at Dustin's smile. Look at that. Now that's a big smile right there. Dustin, you've become her father, Which is, worst things to be. But yeah, Big Dave's an amazing guy. Okay, okay. So Becky, in your parents' relationship, your dad came to save the day.

Right. But even in talking as an adult, you know, it was very much, my mom was a single mom who was not, who was strongly financially. My, you know, my parents are much older. So, you know, they come from a different time. My dad was a 35-year-old bachelor who had a successful business and it was time to get married and time to have a family. And my mom was a nice woman who would stay home and take care of the kids. And they checked the boxes for each other. Yeah.

What happens when Dustin writes you a $2,000 check to pay off the last of your credit card debt? How did you interpret that? I did feel taking. I was annoyed, in all honesty, because he did it because he didn't get me a birthday present. So three days later, he gave me a $2,000 Venmo because I was pasturing him about not getting me a birthday present. So in all honesty, in that moment, I was irritated. She preferred Venmo over cash. It's easier to get it in the bank.

Becky, are you seeing the similarities between your parents' relationship and what's going on here? Yes. Tell me what you notice. What are the connections you see? Dustin's like the reliable one and the, you know, steadfast one. And he makes all the decisions and he makes sure we're not going to like go in a financial ruin. And I spend the money and then, you know, he kind of comes in and as annoyed as he is takes care of it because he cares. Dustin, is that an accurate representation of the roles right now? Yeah.

I mean, I feel like she knows she doesn't have to worry. That's exactly what she just said. You're going to be there to make sure everything's okay. But can I ask a question to both of you? Are those the roles you both want in your relationship? No. The clues are all around us. Becky never noticed the similarity between her parents' relationship and their own.

I'm interested that when I gently pointed that out, she went right back into her story about why she was annoyed that he gave her a $2,000 gift because it was late, and the true point totally passed her by. This is really important. Sometimes people are so deep in their own stories that they don't notice what's going on right in front of their eyes. That's happening here. And that's a tough way to live.

It was at this point in the conversation that I noticed something peculiar about their relationship. Can I ask you something? You two ever say positive words to each other? No. Dustin, you ever say positive words to Becky? I feel like I do sometimes, but I'm also very terrible at conveying my feelings. So what? Kids are terrible at riding bikes.

They still try. Okay. True. You all want to practice right now? Should we try doing something nice? What do you say? All it took was you filling out an application, getting through literally thousands of other people applying,

getting screened, me showing up here, having a Netflix show. All it took was a few simple things for us to come together and maybe, just maybe, say a couple of nice words to each other. What do you say? The dead silence on this call tells us. me that I might need to give you a little bit more guidance. That's fine with me. I don't mind. Who wants to go first and acknowledge their partner and say something nice?

I'll go first. I very much appreciate everything that you've done for us up to this point and for me. And I know that that was difficult for you. And I know that it means that you care a lot about me in our relationship. And I don't want you to have to feel that way anymore. And I want to be a better partner so that you can feel more secure in our relationship. I guess I didn't understand or didn't know if you did appreciate everything I did. So it's nice hearing that. I would love for us to come together and move forward and kind of,

you not have that boundary where you can't speak to me about money, I guess. That way I feel like that would be kind of a wall that's coming down. So maybe we feel more together about everything. And that, you know, moving forward, we would, at least you're not on your page and I'm on my page. We'd kind of be on the same page and both have a general understanding of where things are going. How'd that feel? Okay. Pretty good.

It looked good. I'm not kidding. It looked awesome, watching the two of you, really hearing what their partner was saying. One thing I learned in my own relationship is that there's never too many nice things you can say. It's never too much. I love you. I like that shirt.

Thank you for emptying the dishwasher today. Wow. I can't believe that you packed a suitcases for, us. That's so cool. And on and on. It could be as small as packing the suitcases, could be as big as I just love waking up next to you. And I hope that this little exercise just scratches the surface of it's actually okay to say nice things to each other. In a way, it actually connects you so much more than talking about logistics. Anybody want to say anything else to your partner while we're here about this.

I believe that she's, I believe she can do it. Like, I believed in her the whole time. Talk to her. I believe in, I believed in you the whole time. I wish maybe there was some more openness.

So I would have known like, hey, maybe I need to pick this up right here. Because if I don't, we're going to put it on a credit card. Like, I'd rather pay two, whatever right now,

instead of pay $500 towards interest because we may pay it all. I'd just rather take care of it and know we're headed in the right direction. I mean, thank you for not making you feel crappy about it. And, you know, I'm sorry that I didn't feel I could just tell you. I'm sorry that I just, you know, it's hard for me to not be perfect. And I didn't want you to, you know, I don't know, but I'm sorry. I definitely will be more honest because I guess I can feel safe that you're not going anywhere.

Still here. Wow. Honestly, amazing. I'm so impressed with both of you. The level of communication, the honesty, and what makes it even more special is that. you haven't really talk like this much at all, right? They're both shaking their heads. Been together for four years.

Haven't really talked like this. What a special moment. If you're listening to this on audio, I would highly encourage you to come watch their body language on YouTube. Every week now I'm getting comments from people who come over the videos. They go, hey, I was listening on my phone, but I finally decided to see what they look like, and now I'm hooked on the videos.

In terms of Becky and Dustin, I loved their communication. I'm a little shocked that this was the first time they've said something nice to each other, which obviously goes a lot deeper than we can tackle on one call. But I am pleased to see how they were able to communicate. Now I wanted to get into their numbers. And a bunch of you have asked me where you can get the template that all of these guests are using for their finances. It's called the Conscious Spending Plan and it's free to download at IWT.com slash C. Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsors.

I spent over 20 years fine-tuning my core message from I Will Teach You to Be Rich, of living your rich life, which is why I was so thrilled when Masterclass reached out and asked me to teach a class. Because I've spent so many years helping people define their rich life. My financial wellness class is now available on Masterclass, where I cover how to automate your finances so your money works for you in your sleep, how to break free from financial anxiety, and how to create a financial system to live your own true rich life. With Masterclass, you learn from the best to become your best. Plans start at just $10 a month and you get unlimited access

to over 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs, and now me. Plus, there's no risk. Every new membership comes with a 30-day money back. guarantee so you can try it out before you commit. I've used Masterclass myself. I've paid for it on my own and I loved it. And a big part of my rich life is learning from the best. So Masterclass makes perfect sense for me and I think it will make a lot of sense for you. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com slash Ramith. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash remit, masterclass.com slash remit. What's the area of life that you want to spend more on this year?

A lot of people will say health or relationships. Some people will say travel. Let's talk about food and health for just a second. For example, in my life, my wife and I both decided we're going to spend more on health. And that means having a personal trainer. It means having someone make meals tailored to our macros so that we don't have to think about it. But you don't have to pay for a private chef to do that. One great option is to make healthy eating convenient by getting meals from Factor. They take the work out of healthy,

macro-dense meals so you can start eating better now. Factor is a chef-crafted, dietician-approved meal delivery service that fits into your goals and schedule. Their meals arrive fresh, not frozen, and they are ready to eat in two minutes. No prep, no cleanup, just heat it and go. There are over 100 meals to choose from every week. High protein, calorie smart, Mediterranean, even GLP1 support options. And unlike most meal prep, there's a lot of variety. So you're not locked into the same boring meals every single time. If you're looking to eat healthier starting right now, this is exactly what I would use.

Head to factor meals.com slash remit 50 off. And use code Ramit 50 off to get 50% off your first factor box plus free breakfast for one year. offers only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewal subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. Let's get back to the show. You mind if we take a look at the numbers? It is. All right.

I think it's going to shed a lot of light on what is going on here. To summarize, I've been together for four years. Talked about the credit card debt being paid off. It was paid off earlier this year, but now it's run back up to $7,000. and we're really here because, Becky, you want to know where's this relationship going? And right now, your finances are separate. You both want to know that you're going to be part of a team. Okay.

All right. Let's take a look. Dustin, can you help us through the net worth section? Just read the word in bold and read the full number next to it. Assets, 537,900. All right. Investments. $30,189. All right. Next.

Savings is $69,815. And debt, 450,215. All right. Total net worth? 187,689. So let's kind of, let's go underneath these numbers because it's important. It shows the difference in your finances. So in terms of assets, Dustin, you have $520,000. And Becky, you have $17,000.

In terms of investments, Dustin, you have $25,000. And Becky, you have $4,800. Okay. Saving $67,000 for Dustin, $2,800 for Becky. Debt, I want to talk about this. Dustin, you have $243,000 of debt. And Becky, you have $206,000 of debt. So if we actually split out the net worth by partner, Dustin, your net worth is $370,000.

And Becky, yours is negative $181,000. Accurate? All right. Becky, what does it feel like to hear those numbers? I mean, it doesn't feel great. What is the $206,000 of debt that you have? Mostly my student loan. How long you've been paying that off?

I mean, I graduated seven years ago. And I haven't been paying for the last three years. So I just made my first payment this month. How much payment did you make? $369. Okay. How long will it take you to pay it off? Um, forever. I mean, I'm on the income-based repayment plan where, you know, after 25 years or whatever, it gets forgiven. And I think you take a tax hit. All right. And Dustin, what's your $243,000 of debt? It should just be the house, the remainder of the house and a truck. What kind of truck? What kind of truck? That doesn't answer my question. What kind of truck? It's a F-350, Dooley. 350?

How big is that freaking thing? It's the biggest one you can get. Jesus. And what do you do for a living? I build swimmipples, so I haul equipment and whatnot. Oh, really? How much did you pay? 65,000.

65,000. All right, we haven't gotten to your income yet. So, assuming you have a very high income, that sounds like a very reasonable purchase. Let's see. Let's pop it up here. I'm in suspense just like you. Income.

All right. Gross monthly income. Becky, what is your, what's this number here? Your total combined monthly income? 10,333. That's gross income. That's $124,000 a year. All right.

Did you both know that you make $124,000 total per year? Yeah. Yeah. I think we did. I think I thought we made more than that because I make. That's what I want to. No, no. Who makes... Hold on. Before we go on, one, I legitimately do not know the answer to this.

One partner makes $8,333 a month, and the other makes $2,000 a month. Who makes what? I'm partner one. You make $8,333 a month? Uh, and I have a lot of questions. Justin, you make $2,000 a month? All right, so, Rameet, we didn't know what to put here. I own a business and I don't

I'm not really set up to pay myself so I just kind of put money in my account when I want to but automatically drafted I automatically draft 2,000 a month How much does your business make? I think last year we cleared 150 We pulled out a bunch of money

throughout the year So, for me, the truck Yeah, let's start at the truck. The truck, we had to buy the truck at the end of last year or else he was going to have to pay taxes. Who taught you this? Extremely poor use of personal finance. Who taught you this?

No one. Just winging it. This is like part of the big issue. Dustin graduated in high school, barely. And then worked for a little bit and realized I cannot work for someone else. I am going to work for myself and start a business. And I think he's done better than he really thought he would. And now he like, I mean, when I met Dustin, he had one account, business and personal.

He just lived out of that account and kind of did a little bit here and a little bit there. And so now he doesn't know what's the business is money and what's his money. And that leads to a lot of our issues of like, I don't really know how much money we have because sometimes it sounds like we have a lot and sometimes it doesn't sound like we have any. I'm so confused. I have so many questions. First of all, the way you talk about money, Becky, I'm talking to you. Yes.

You talk about money like you don't make that much money. Do you know that? I never realized it. Yeah, you talk about money. I don't feel like I make that much money. You make almost $100,000 a year. And you live in North Carolina. And I don't think you pay rent, right?

So the way you talk about money is completely. at odds with the numbers on the page. You are living an old story. It's striking. I'm frankly shocked when I found out that that 8,333 is yours. Because the way that Dustin talks about money is like way more confident. And it's like, we shouldn't be traveling. We have boundaries.

And when I hear somebody making $8,300 a month and they have debt, I'm like, okay, just pay it off, especially with your cost of living. Let's solve the problem. We could literally knock this thing out in two months. I'm candidly surprised. Now, Dustin, what the fuck, man? Explain to me how you can afford a $65,000 truck.

Please. The business bought it. The business made $150,000. How can a $150,000? How can a business making $150,000 paying you no salary at $150K,000, how can that business afford a $65,000 truck? I don't know. It's doing it.

Who told you that? Chet, your friendly local North Carolina Ford dealer? What do you say? Come on in here, Dustin. What kind of payment you want to make? You want to pay $600 a month? I can't do $600, but you're a good friend. I'll tell you what.

I'm going to go ahead and give you $6.50 a month. It's going to be a $96 month alone at $7.5. Yeah, you know, your interest is, credit isn't that good, but you know what, something special for you. I'm going to throw in the floor mats, all for you. I wish that truck was $650 a month. How much? Oh, yeah, it's way more. How much?

Is the payment? Yeah. $1450. You're the one who's paying $1,450 on a fuck truck plus gas? More than our market. Oh, yeah. explain this to me how much you spend in gas per month oh i'd have to look it up on the

i spent two hundred over two hundred dollars on monday to fill up someone to work truck and and do you love your truck i mean i didn't want a dully what what's that it's just a dully i'd want a regular truck his car his truck has six tires for me instead of four Wait, this is crazy. Hold on, my videos.

Oh my God. I think my video got frozen. Oh, my God, what happened? After over 100 episodes of this podcast, this was literally the first time my video cut out on me. And I think it's because I encountered someone who makes $24,000 a year and bought an F350 with six tires and a $1,450 monthly payment, including $200 in gas he filled up,

This Monday. Well, in part two of our conversation, you're going to hear the surprising conclusion of Becky and Dustin, including the rest of their numbers. I'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You to Be Rich. I'm Rameet Seity. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven't read I Will Teach You to Be Rich, my book, pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I Will Teach You to Be Rich system into your personal finances.