Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi - 18. "He's the man & he should pay. We can't go on like this any more"

Episode Date: November 16, 2021

Monique expects Pablo to pay for her “as the man” in the relationship. Pablo wants “fairness” in a partner. Last week, I dug into their money psychology. Right at the end of last week’s conversation -- when both were feeling good -- they started discussing an upcoming trip to Mexico City. Suddenly, everything fell apart. All their positive feelings and new skills got thrown to the side, and they went right back to their old habits. That’s why I had to add a part two to our conversation. That’s today’s episode. When they’re discussing the trip, Monique already has her argument ready before Pablo finishes a sentence. Pablo’s fists are clenched. He wants to be the laid-back, confident guy Monique fell in love with, but his views on money have changed. You’ll hear him describe “Antonio,” his scarcity-minded alter ego. This conversation surprised me in so many ways. Listen in. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin If you and your partner have a money issue and you want my help, I occasionally select a couple to work with, free of charge. Apply for my help here. Produced by Crate Media.

If you or your partner has fallen for a scam, I want to help, especially if you've recently fallen for an email or text scam, or you've gotten bad financial advice from someone who did not keep their promises, or maybe you just have not even told your partner because you are embarrassed. If this is you, I want to talk. Apply for free coaching with me by being on my podcast. Apply today at IWT.com slash apply. That's IWT.com slash apply. Let me share some of the coolest ways that my community has recently used money to live a rich life. One member did a month-long honeymoon in Europe after deciding she didn't want a big wedding. Another member bought a VW SUV that was their dream car that they've wanted for years.

And another member made a rule that any time she buys a ticket for an event, she always buys a second so that she can bring a friend. These are just a few examples of how my money coaching members have built systems to use their money. Notice that there's no more anxiety, that they have a smooth running system. They know when their debt's going to be paid off. They can feel comfortable spending on the things they love. They can actually spend less time on their finances while living an amazing life. In my money coaching program, members also get access to live events every month, including topics like money with aging parents and how to create a lot.

amazing vacations. That was one of my favorites where I shared how I spend my money on travel, plus Q&A directly from me. If you want to start building your rich life today, join us and get instant access to our back catalog of years of live calls. Check out IWT.com slash money coaching to join now. That's IWT.com slash money coaching to join the program right now. I'm just a bit blindsided that like you bought a thousand dollar ticket for me. It's just like a weird feeling to have you buy something for me, but then turn around and be like, okay, since I bought this, I'm going to make you pay for all the food and all the housing.

So it's like you're not inviting me. You're making me pay you back in a different way. And that seems transactional and cold. Welcome back to I Will Teach You Be Rich. I'm Rameh Satee. And this is part two of my conversation with Pablo and Monique. Now, last week we met them both. And just as we were starting to come to a resolution. We opened up a whole new can of worms. That's why I had to turn this episode into two parts. I want to reintroduce you to this couple,

just to refresh your memory on who they are. Monique is 23 years old. She makes $33,000 a year, and she describes her financial beliefs as traditional. I always just thought of having that fairy tale love of going out and having everything paid for. Or, like, the guy pays for everything. The guy opens the door.

The guy pulls the chair out. The guy waits to kiss you at the end of the day. I did expect him to pick up the bill when we sat there for like half an hour. Pablo doesn't see money the same way at all. He's 33 years old. He makes $103,000 or about three times as much as Monique. And when he talks about money in their relationship, he uses words like, taken of and fair.

I was like, I'm not going to pay for her. I didn't have a drop of her suit. She should pay for it. There have been many instances where we've wanted to break up and we have broken up for days because of the incompatibilities and tensions. But our attraction and willingness to try to fight for each other and be with each other has always brought us back. I thought I was in my right to think he could do more since he is older, more money, more experience.

In the last episode, we went deep on Pablo and Monique's money beliefs, how they were raised, how they think about money, their money psychology. And towards the end, they both started to develop a newfound respect for each other. They started to really empathize with how the other person was feeling and why they were behaving the way they were around money. But then something happened. And that was a specific trip that they're both planning to take to Mexico City. What you'll discover is that it's all fun and games, it's nice, and everybody sings kumbaya about how they feel about money, until a specific situation comes up. And then often people revert right back to how they used to behave around

money. So here we are, Pablo wants to surprise Monique with a Formula One experience in Mexico City. And because he paid for the tickets, he's going to ask her to pay for the accommodations and food. She thinks this is unfair. Let's listen. I don't think it should be 50-50. I would be more comfortable at being proportional to our incomes. And if in the future one day you make more than him, do you pay more proportionally? I would be more comfortable paying like 50-50.

I feel like once again, the commitment to partnership is not there. I just don't think that's fair. That actually does raise a question of like, is this ever going to work out where we both feel happy and content with our finances and our relationship. If it's not, then I think I must find a better suited partner for me. Her parents are friends from back in the day. My dad's an architect and he helped renovate Monique's restaurants. Her mom was like, I have a daughter. We should have introduced our kids to each other. And so then I had just come back from living abroad that day. My mom is very social, so she always has me meeting her

friends' kids, because we're all like-minded. So when she heard about Pablo, she's like, oh, he loves to travel. He did this. My daughter loves to travel as well, and she does music as well. Like, they should meet. So it was more of like a friendly thing, not like a, you know, set up. But I knew nothing about him. I knew he was older. And I like stalked his Facebook and I was like, ew. Like I saw like horrible pictures of him. So I was just like, ew, like, I don't know who this guy is. Like, gross, whatever. And then you saw him and what happened when you saw him? Did you still say it you? No. I was like, ooh. Yeah, I like 12 months like right away. How'd your parents feel once they, you know, once you told them that you were interested in him and he was 10 years older? To be honest,

they weren't worried. They weren't sketched out or anything because they knew he came from a good family. He's a good background, a solid family. and he was very respectful, way more respectful than the guys my age anyway. So they were really comfortable. You know, I'm surprised. Walking into this call, I had seen both of their ages. And I suspected that there might be some sort of power imbalance here. You know, he's 10 years older, she's not.

Yet it turns out that their parents introduced them. And so you can see me trying to pull on this thread here and realizing, that it's actually not the issue whatsoever. Now, just as a reminder, Pablo earns just over $100,000. He also has a quarter of a million dollars invested, by the way. Monique only earns about $33,000, but she expects her income to go up over time. I'm sharing these numbers with you. It's important because it informs how they view this 50-50 split that Pablo proposes. I just don't think it is 50-50. I don't think it should be 50-50.

I would be more comfortable at being proportional to our incomes. And if in the future one day you make more than him, do you pay more proportionally? I would be more comfortable paying like 50-50. I thought it was very interesting, Monique's reaction once her, she makes three times as much as I do. What was that reaction? Her reaction was, no, the guy should still pay. or she was stumped by that scenario, which is... Ask her about that.

Yeah, which is concerning because, say, for example, well, there has been times where I've been out of a job just to, like, be in the U.S. to be with you. But I'm still expected to carry on as if nothing is the matter. And, like, I've seen it in my parents' relationship where my father has lost his job. a power shift where my mom sees my dad, not as romantically as she usually does, kind of like a burden. And I experienced that in the past as I explained my first relationship where I wasn't making anything and the girlfriend had to take care of me. And she said, to quote, I no longer see you as my partner. I see you as a child that I have to take care of. And so that worries me with Monique.

I mean, yeah, like I obviously wouldn't love that situation, but of course, I would do it. Obviously, if I'm making more than you or like, you lose your job or something, I'm not going to be like, okay, well, I'm divorcing you or anything, you know. This is something I notice in couples a lot. You will hear people starting to spin out about what might happen in the future. The most common example is a woman asking her partner, hey, what happens if we get pregnant and I decide that I want to, stop working temporarily or perhaps even permanently. What are you going to do then? Are you going to leave me? And it just starts to spin. Here, we can hear Pablo starting to do exactly the same thing, saying, hey, what if one day I lose my job? That's happened. And then what are you going to do? Are you going to support me? Are you going to look down on me? In my experience, most people try to

combat this by telling their partner, stop spinning. What are you worried about? Don't worry. That is never effective. So please just stop doing that. A much better approach is to say, tell me what that would mean to you. If I were to not be able to work, how would you react? And then be honest about what that would make you feel. You know, I'm concerned that you might stop respecting me. I'm concerned that we might not have enough money to live the type of lifestyle we want. That kind of honesty opens up a much more authentic conversation.

It can also serve to change some of the ways that you, you behave around money. For example, if you're concerned that you might not have enough money if one of you loses their job or one of you stays home with a new child, well, suddenly that gives both of you a reason to save more aggressively, to invest more aggressively. And so these kinds of conversations can easily be changed from spinning and negativity to vulnerability and authenticity. That's what I would encourage. I'm trying to see if there's compatibility here between the two of you. And I can't be the one to decide.

Only the two of you can. I mean, I think it would be compatible because obviously, if he takes me out, I would obviously be very appreciative of that. I just feel like it would just push forward like some positive, loving energy rather than like 50-50 each time. I definitely agree. My only worry is from the real life examples that we've had where like you do want to take me out or you do want to invite me to something. And it's not equal in terms of like, I'll pay for the $180 dinner, but you can get like

the $13 ice cream. Technically, yeah, you pulled up your end of the bargain of that you pay for one thing and I pay for another thing. It's not equivalent in the economic impact of both. In your heart, the sentiment is the same. but logically and objectively it's not. However, again, I am very willing to accept your efforts, even if small, but I do see them changing, and I do appreciate it.

And understand that you do want to be taken out. Obviously, we're both pretty big romantics, and so I do like taking her out. I do love the fact that when she dresses up, she feels like the queen of the world and stuff like that. So I do want to make her feel confidence. I appreciate that. I appreciate you talking about how Monique wants to feel. What if nothing changes? What happens in five years? I fear that I would be continuing how I am right now, which is like passively accepting something that I am not pleased with, just for the sake of keeping their relationship afloat. What would happen? Increased bitterness and increased resentment where anything could trigger a bigger fight of like if another $10 soup comes

around, then a bigger fight of like, well, I've sacrificed my whole life for this and like, you can't even buy your own soup. And like, and just bigger snowballed fights. Do you think you still be together? Logically, no. Emotionally, yes. Which has been a lot of pulls intentions in our relationships, I'm sorry, in our relationship, there have been many instances where we've wanted to break up and we have broken up for days or whatever because of the incompatibilities and tensions, but our attraction and willingness to try to fight for each other and be with each other has always brought us back. I would just love for him to keep vocalizing his thoughts and feelings. Before in the relationship, he was never really vocal and he just like held it in and I was just

be like, okay, why isn't he reaching for the bill? Like, that's really weird. But he would never say anything. So I just thought, like, he was cheap or something. I am 33, five years, I'm 38. Monique will be 27, 28. So let's just say that she has time, whereas, like, I feel like I'm getting older. If I want to start a family, there does come that pressure of trying to find a more ideal partner with my philosophies.

And so if nothing changes in five. years, then that actually does raise a question of like, is this ever going to work out where we both feel happy and content with our finances and our relationship? If it's not, then I think I must find a better suited partner for me, given my age and my life goals. That's the first time I think I've heard either of you mention that the stakes here are actually pretty high. You could live with awkward soup situations for the rest of your life. Yeah. But Pablo, if you do want a family and you have a vision of a certain age where you're having a family,

well, then you have your own timetable. Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. But I think the problem that you're talking about was because you were never vocal about how unhappy you were or your finances. So I could never. So when you're saying like I put my foot down and you'd, never said anything. Well, it's because I didn't know, you never said anything. So it's like, how could I, you know, I'd like to think I'm a pretty considerate, empathetic person. So like,

obviously, if you would tell me your struggles or issues or thoughts, I would obviously take them consideration and, like, work on them with you. But, like, since you never were vocal about them, how could I accommodate you, you know? And so, like, obviously, now I think we're, financially we're kind of on the same track and we're kind of more comfortable. And that's only because of four years of fighting because you could never really say what you wanted to say. Yeah, I agree. Do you want him to put his foot down?

I mean, sure. Yeah, like I want him to tell me what he thinks, how he feels because like it's not all about me. And I felt like he thought that it was all about me because I am very vocal. Like the second I'm upset or the second I'm whatever, I tell him. And so the second I was upset about something or whatever, like he was just like, okay, okay. Like whatever makes you happy, great. Are you a people pleaser, Pablo?

Yes. I do sacrifice a lot of my wants and needs just to keep the peace and to keep things going. And what happens when you do that? There's a lot of repression on my end and a lot of bitterness and resentment towards the search of my life. Suddenly things are starting to make a lot more sense. It's not simply that Monique has a view of money that is incompatible with Pablo.

It's also that Pablo is a people-pleaser, and he hasn't been honest about what he's feeling. This resentment he's feeling, the one that we can all hear dripping off of his voice, is something that he hasn't effectively communicated to Monique. There's a pretty cool TikTok trend going around right now that I really love. It's called admin nights. Basically, you get your friends together, you get some snacks, maybe some drinks,

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As Monique has said, she's very empathetic and understanding. If I had told her, like, look, the reason why I can't pay for your soup is because, like, I haven't worked in a year. And she'd be like, oh, you're right. Let me pay you for it right now. And you actually let me take care of you. And we can get at my house every single day of the week. And you don't have to worry about anything. That's what she would have done.

That's true, Monique? Yes, of course. Absolutely. But instead I was like, who does she think she is? I'm not going to pay for her. I didn't have a drop of her suit. She should pay for it. How would you describe that view, Pablo?

Very selfish and partial to my own, very myopic, to be honest. If you had to describe what that feels like on your body, how would you describe it? Boiling blood. like very tight-fisted, just like clenching jaw. Like the bill comes, I'm like, okay, well, here I go, let me pay for it. If you had to name that, what would you name it? Your name is Pablo. Who's this person?

Antonio. There we go. And how do you feel about Antonio? I don't like him. He's around a lot. he really is around and around 90% of the time. And he really takes over a lot of the situations. And my true self, which I guess is Pablo,

like it was repressing itself. Tell us more about Antonio. How does he think? I want to say that the world is out to get him, but he has extreme resentment towards everyone in the world. He doesn't feel a victim, but he just feels like angry towards anyone. Angry.

Very insecure. and lacks confidence. Why does Antonio lack confidence? Because he doesn't, especially now that I feel more in the U.S., I feel the lack of monetary power has definitely decreased my confidence. And I think part of the reason why Monique fell in love with me is I had just come from living all the world that was super, not cocky or confident, but just like sure of myself. Like, oh yeah, let me tell you about all the the places that I live, all the things that I've done, blah, blah, blah, which is I know is what Monique wants and fell in love with versus like the insecure guy who looks at her weirdly because she doesn't pull out her card to card.

And more importantly, who do you want more of? Pablo or Antonio? Pablo, absolutely. So I love that you've given him a name, Antonio. It's a great name. What happens in your body when you switch from Pablo? to Antonio. Can you spot it?

The best way I can describe is like this uneasy feeling in the stomach. I wouldn't say it's like heartburn, but just like, I would say like the stomach acid just gurgling and like boiling like something's not sitting right. And then where does the feeling go? Probably to my mouth and I probably do clench and I do feel like that I can't really speak. because I'm so angry, probably to my throat as well. So now that you know all about Antonio, what do you want to do with that information?

Who is the person who got the jobs all around the world, had the high income? Was that Pablo or Antonio? I don't think Antonio existed back then. That's right. Pablo ruled back then, didn't he? Yeah. And who rules today?

Antonio. 90% of the time. What do you want to do with that? How do I focus all the energy to suppressing, or not only suppressing, but eliminating Antonio. You can't eliminate Antonio. Okay, and then suppressing then. Suppressing doesn't work.

You've been doing it your whole life. Does it work? No, it does not. No. Sometimes we have to accept the bad parts of us. I have bad parts of me. I tried to stop them. Now I say, okay, what I want to do instead is just to increase the better parts of me.

Okay. Yeah, of course, I want to keep an eye on being judgmental. Yeah, I'll try to minimize it. But I can spend my whole life minimizing my bad. And where do I end up? Just angry at myself. I hate it. Instead, what if I try to.

spend more time focusing on improving the good. What would that look like for you? That would look like enjoying the company of a beautiful girl and like making her feel special, enjoying talking to friends and meeting new people and going to travel places and stuff like that. It's funny, you didn't mention anything about spreadsheets, $10, $50, $50,000, $50, in any of that. You're right. Monique, who do you like better? Pablo. Why? It's just more,

just more fun, more likable, more romantic. Tell him. Like, I just don't like when I... Start again. Tell him what you do like. Tell him why you like Pablo.

Okay, okay. I love when you're just like super confident and you know what you want and you know where you want to take me. And you're just like super sure of yourself. And I just like see your personality shine and you're like funny. And you have like all these stories to share. And you're just like a really good time to be with.

And like I really like admire that. I believe that. You've already been a powerful Pablo before. Yeah. You already know exactly what that feels like. Feels great. It's just a matter of just finding your way back there and making Pablo even bigger. So many amazing things just happen in that.

last bit. First off, Pablo realizing that he has almost this Jekyll and Hyde perspective to his views on money. And then I loved getting him to name it. It's a very, very powerful concept. Naming. Naming those voices, those little gremlins on your shoulder who are whispering. And oftentimes we have a little negative gremlin, negative Nancy, or in this case, Antonio. And that person might tell you, You can't do it. You're not worthy. Save all your money. Don't get too big for your britches.

And then you have somebody positive on your other shoulder saying, you know what? You're worth it. You can afford it. You know your numbers. Money isn't just about ROI. We can do things because we enjoy them, et cetera. I love getting people out of their head. And I love hearing how Pablo truly internalized it.

He knows exactly the difference between Pablo. and Antonio. Then you heard Monique starting to compliment Pablo. By the way, did you notice how I redirected her back? She was very intellectual about it. Pablo's better. It's better when I said, tell him, tell him. Because when you are discussing money with your partner, you can never say enough nice things. A lot of times we feel we need to be efficient. Efficiency is overrated. When you are complimenting someone, you can take one minute, two minutes, five minutes, ten minutes, and it never gets old. Finally, there's something very conceptually powerful about the idea of going back. We all know the idea of going back home. In this case, I evoked that same concept for Pablo.

He's already been powerful Pablo. So it's not like he has to invent a new idea. No, all he has to do is go back home. Pablo's already inside of him, just waiting to be welcomed, waiting to be unveiled to the world again. This episode of Money for Couples is brought to you by Wild Graeme. Do you have someone in your life who always tries to one-up you? Like if you bake a cake, they'll ask, hey, have you tried using hand-milled flour because it just tastes so much better? You know, I prioritize my help. Hand-milled flour.

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building IWT, it would have changed everything. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, get our free business guide, demystifying AI, at netsuite.com slash remit. That's net suite.com slash remit. There is an upcoming trip. We're going to Mexico City. And it actually is timed perfectly because we're going to, I bought tickets to go see the Formula One. Obviously, I'm a big fan.

And Monique is getting into it. She's not really a big fan. And then she has her award show in Mexico City. city. So the tickets, to be frank, there were $2,000 or like $1,000 each. I would say it would be completely fair that I covered the tickets and then she would pay for housing and food in Mexico, which would make it equivalent or probably even less. It would probably be like, I spent two grand, she spends one grand. First of all, I had no idea those tickets were. So it's two grand per person? No, a thousand dollars per person. Okay. You went ahead and bought the tickets without me,

knowing about it and without knowing the price and you're already expecting me to pay for all the housing and all the food which i had no idea about are you both feeling right now i am feeling a bit frustrated uh where i feel like once again the commitment to partnership is not there well i just feel confused that he bought something without even talking to me about it and it's expecting me to pay all the stuff without even telling me about it. It frustrates me that I don't see the spirit of like, oh, definitely. Thank you for getting that experience. I want to like have the best time ever.

Like there's not that initiative of, oh, you did this? All right, well, let me do this. It's like, you did this. Well, let me just pay for a little bit because a gentleman should pay for everything. That's fine, but I did not expect for formula want to be $1,000. I had no idea that I was going to have to pay for that. But you're not paying for it. Okay, you're paying for it, but now you're expecting me to pay for all of the housing and all the food.

I thought for me a one ticket's were like 300 bucks. Those were sold out, so we had to get those expensive ones. Pause right here. Who's speaking? Is it Antonio or Pablo? Antonio. Actually, no. To be honest, I think Pablo's speaking because he wants a fairly, a fairly,

and is sending up for himself. I'm not concerned about the monetary value. I'm concerned about the fact that we are not sharing an experience together equally. What if the tickets had cost $10,000? Then I would say that's excessive and I would not expect her to pay $10,000 or equivalent of $10,000. I think she's saying that $2,000 is excessive for her. Do you hear that?

I do hear that. I'm just a bit blindsided because I did not know how much the tickets were. And so, again, I just wasn't expecting to spend that much for this trip. I wanted to be fair in your terms, in Pablo's terms, and be 50-50. Yeah, I'm just a bit blindsided that, like, you bought a thousand dollar ticket for me. So now you're putting on the weight of all the housing and all the food, which I don't know if that's excessive or not. not, I'm just shot. I'm very thankful for you for you being thoughtful and like buying the

ticket and like wanting to share that experience with me. Like I'm very excited. And once I learn more about it, I'm sure I'll be even more excited. But like it's just like a weird feeling to have you buy something for me, but then turn around and be like, okay, since I bought this, I'm going to make you pay for all the food and all the housing. So it's like you're not inviting me. You're making me pay you back in a different way. And that seems transactional and cold. Okay. I definitely understand the way you see that.

The way that you put it, I definitely understand how you could think that I'm like giving you a small loan that you have to pay back. Yeah. Because then it's like I'm not, then you're not treating me and then you're not inviting me. Then it's like I'd rather just pay the $500 for the ticket. Or no, I'd rather pay that.

Even though that's a lot of money, I don't want to pay that. But like, I would rather just pay the $1,000 for the ticket and then us go proportionally. Monique, how does it feel to hear what Pablo just said to you? I already forgot what you said. What did he say? Why did you forget what he said, by the way? Because I think I was like ready to respond. Yeah.

Yeah, you're saving up your response to jump right in. Yeah. But he said something. really important. Pablo, what did you say? I said, I definitely, first of all, thank you for explaining how you feel. I definitely do understand now that you explain it

how you may feel that way. And given that's a situation, I definitely do understand how you may think that me buying you a ticket and making you pay for the whole trip is the equivalent of giving you like a small loan that you have to repay back. Okay, yes, I remember.

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Thank you. I just don't think that's fair. How does it feel to hear him say that? It feels good at being recognized. When was the last time that he said something like that? He'll say it when we fight and a couple days later, we'll come to our senses and be respectful and we'll be, you know, empathetic for each other.

So it's not, it's often that he, you know. I've gotten much better at it, I must admit. Yes. She has coached me to get much better at it. Great. And what do you think he would like to hear after he says something like that? He would want me to express how I feel, like, to thank him for being thoughtful and for wanting to be equal. I think he wants to know you're acknowledging him for being candid.

Absolutely. Do you think your response acknowledged him? No. No. You steamrolled right into the thing you wanted to say. In fact, you had it probably written out. You know, you're ready to go. So he's doing exactly what you said you wanted to see, which is what?

Communicate. Yes. Right? Open up. But when he does it, what happens? I did not respond gracefully. Like I just did not recognize his. his efforts. So the two of you both, you today have articulated what a good 10 out of 10

relationship would look like, what these conversations would look like. But you notice that when you actually have them, you revert right back to your old habits. So this is why you have a very challenging road ahead. You have to change from the inside out and the outside in. And And even when one of you does it, the other one may not notice it. Yeah. But in truth, the only way that you get where you both want to go is if you both are putting a ton of work into it. And the truth is it is not going to happen every time, right? You two are not going to be dancing in unison.

One is going to be a little bit better than the other at certain things and you're going to have to help the other one along. But what I just heard right now was some interesting stuff. I heard some good communication. I heard some level of acknowledgement, maybe not from both sides. Those are things that you'll be facing as you go forward. This is where we run into the issue of who puts her foot down and who relents. And the majority of the time it's me because, as we've seen, she would like to have her way. And so the way that I see it is that I do what she wants me to do, which is be empathetic,

acknowledge her, understand her, and try to wrap my brain around, even though I don't agree with it philosophically, I see it. I'm like, all, fine, let's do this. So then that's where it goes to the original point of like, I concede, I concede, I concede. So even if I make my point across, then it becomes a little bit hopeless because like, well, I'm just going to say my part, but I know at the end of the day I'm going to end up conceding. So you two both have gone back to your corners of the ring. You know, you're certainly explaining your way and you're talking and then you're looking up and saying, does he agree with me yet?

And then, nope, keep explaining. And then, you know, you're doing your thing. Is she seen it my way? Oh, nope, going to keep doing what I'm doing. Does this work? No. And it's not only this issue. It happens with a lot, if not all issues.

Oh, you don't say. I'm so shocked. Of course. It happens when you're talking about a big trip that hasn't even happened yet, and it happens when you've got a dinner in front of you and the server just put the bill down. It happens at every level. What do you think the problem is? Two people wanting to get their way and not finding a good conflict resolution. No real compromise. There's no joy, actually. No. When you look back on your discussion about Mexico City, what was the emotion you would use to describe it? Good old resentment and bitterness.

And yet you insisted it was Pablo talking, not Antonio. Chew on that for a minute. Yeah. This is Mexico City. It's a great city. It's got the best food. You're going to Formula One. You know all the places to go, the bars, all that stuff.

And yet it feels as an observance. that you've taken a towel and just wrung it dry and there's nothing left. And the greatest irony is you haven't even gotten on the plane yet. Yeah. Before I go on to this next section, I really want to pause and I want you to really internalize what I'm about to do. When you think about money, what are the words that come to mind for you? I've asked this question many times. The answers are very, very common. Not enough. save, save, save, it's very, very often scarcity-based. Deep down, a lot of you hate money.

You hate it. When you think of money, it reminds you of not having enough. When you think about money with your partner, you fight. When you think about money for yourself, you think about not having enough. And yet, paradoxically, many of us are addicted to the idea of money. You hate it. If you hate money, it will be very hard to be successful with it. And if you hate money, there will be no joy in your conversations with your partner.

That is what typifies all of the conversation that we've heard between Pablo and Monique this episode and last. No joy. Very little love. Just aggressively budding heads. going to each other's respective corners saying, I'm right, you're wrong, why don't you see it like me? I think money can be a big source of joy.

I think it can be a source of jokes. I think it would be a source of adventure. I think it'd be a source of opportunity. This is why you hear me on every episode showing people how to joke about money and how to say, what's your rich life? Get into the vivid details for me.

If you hate money, If you constantly have negative conversations about it, it's going to be very difficult for you to work towards your rich life. So watch what I do here to flip this entire dynamic and bring some joy to the conversation about money. Watch this. What's the area of life that you want to spend more on this year? A lot of people will say health or relationships. Some people will say travel. Let's talk about, food and health for just a second. For example, in my life, my wife and I both decided we're going to spend more on health. And that means having a personal trainer. It means having someone make meals

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their family. You can apply today in just minutes at meetfabric.com slash remit. M-E-E-T-Fabric.com slash remit. Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in certain states, prices subject to underwriting and health questions. What if for just three minutes we lived in a totally different world? And this conversation is going to be joyful. I want you to just role play with me. Okay. The facts are the same. You've got the tickets.

You make the same amount of money. But this time, what are you going to choose to do? Okay. So I actually already got us dinner reservations already like two months ago at Puyol, which is one of the world-renowned restaurants. And I already have the schedule laid out of all the meals that we should have all the fancy restaurants, as well as all the street tacos and everything. So I'm actually super excited for you to try every single restaurant that I've savored over the years.

And I have every meal plan. And not only that, since I lived in so many different colonies or areas of that city, like I know where museums, I know where to go for a walk along the park. So like in terms of entertainment and stuff to do, you really don't have to worry because literally the schedule, it's going to be so jam-packed with fun activities. Like, you will literally have the best time of your life. Well, that is so thoughtful. Like, obviously can't wait to go and experience that with you

and have you show me around a place that is so near and dear to your heart and, like, have you show me the best of the best and, like, just being so excited to show me and share that with me. And at the same time, we'll be able to get a little bit of exercise and walking in and culture, and so you can take amazing pictures for your Instagram and for everything. And you'll be able to meet my family as well. And the best part about it is that we'll finally be able to take a trip alone.

No pressure from the parents, no nothing to worry about. Okay, okay, okay. You've done a great job selling. I get it. I'm about to go to Mexico City myself. Are we going to talk about anything else here or are we done? Is there any financial component to this conversation? So I would like to have a discussion about how we're going to fund the trip.

I would like to be fair, and I want to discuss with you what fair means to you. In your ideal world, what does fair mean? So we're going to go to some fancy restaurants. We're going to go to museums. We're going to spend a little bit of money, but I promise you it's going to be worth it. So how would you like to cover this trip? Yeah, so since you make 103, I'm not really good at math, and I make about 33-ish. That number could go up, me picking up shifts.

I haven't been working because I was, you know, traveling. So I'm definitely happy to bring that number up and have more money for the trip and contribute more to the trip. I'm definitely happy to do that because I want us to have a really good time and not it be restricted or negative. So if you could just give me like a rough estimate about what it costs. We are looking at a trip that's going to be around $4,000. So why don't we do this? One, I pay for two-thirds of the trip and you can pay for a third of the trip. And if it ever comes out that we go to an extra restaurant, which is fancier, we get reservations to a better restaurant, I'll take you because it's your first time in Mexico City. So you don't have to worry about that. All you have to worry about is your proportional share of it. I love it. I think that's perfectly fair. And I really appreciate that.

You did a great job on that, Pablo. Spending a lot of time talking about why. You know why I want to pick up the Formula one ticket? because you've never seen something like this. And I would love to experience it with you together. So I want to get those tickets because it's really meaningful for me that we get to do this together for the first time. Yeah. I want to spend more time on that than I want to spend on the numbers. Okay, I want to get that feeling right.

And then, of course, when we get into the numbers, I don't want to avoid them. These are real concerns, real numbers. They're opportunities for us to. to work together. I want to simplify it. I've done the work behind the scenes. Monique, you should also have done the work behind the scenes for yourself. You should know how much you can afford. Right? You put yourself in the passive seat of waiting for him to come for the numbers. But really, he's not the one who can't afford this, is he? The financial concern is more of a

burden for you. So how can you ask that question, but in a way that makes you feel confident and powerful and not weak? Like, how much can I contribute to this? That's amazing, because that puts a little bit of the skin in the game, and it shows your willingness that you want to not take advantage of me, but be part of the trick. And I've always wanted to be part of it. I just wanted it to feel fair.

and feel exciting. How do you feel, Pablo? It's good, because at the end of the day, I just want to have fun, and I want her to have fun and enjoy our first trip together. At the end, it's not important because, like, $3,000 out of $100,000 is not that much versus the experience that we might have.

Wow. What a journey. Let me just recap what I learned in this two-part conversation with Pablo and Monique. Monique believed that the man, should pay. She said he should pay because he's a gentleman. She also said he should pay because he's older, because he makes more money, because he's pursuing me, he should be investing in me. Pablo saw money totally differently. He felt taken advantage of. He said we should pay 50-50, even though he made

three times as much as Monique. Both of their attitudes stemmed from past experiences, the ways that they were raised, how much money they'd made in the past, and also assumptions that they were making about each other. You know, you rarely hear people being this honest about their money beliefs, rarely. That's why this podcast is called the I Will Teach Be Rich podcast, real stories about love and money from behind closed doors. But these are real beliefs, and it's not just Monique who believes it. It's not just Pablo. know many people who believe this. I know lots of people who have the same beliefs. You might too. I believe that part of a rich life is being honest with yourself. What do you really believe about money?

And then being honest with the people around you. What are your expectations of money in your relationship? Have you ever articulated them? Hopefully this set of episodes has allowed you to really question what you believe and why you believe it. As for Pablo and Monique, I wish them the best. They have some challenging times ahead because they have a lot of identities to rewrite. But I want to thank them for being so candid with me and with each other. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You to Be Rich. Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You to Be Rich. I'm Ramit Seth Satee. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. head over to IWT.com slash podcast to find our entire back catalog of episodes and links to all the places you can listen.

Here's what you'll find next week on the I Will Teach to Be Rich podcast. With each year, my frustration keeps mounting because I feel like I'm not being heard. This is not a joint decision to continue this startup indefinitely. He made some jokes about me being his retirement plan and a, I have a bad feeling that it's happening. I think that her attitude in general is negative at times. Does she have a right to be negative about money? Yeah, she does.