Money For Couples with Ramit Sethi - 3. “My husband is going broke, but he won’t let me help”

Episode Date: August 6, 2021

Calvin feels he needs to be the “man of the house” and pay for everything. There’s just one problem: He can’t afford it. Every month he’s in the red, leading him to be anxious around money. Chantha likes to spend money on nice things and feels Calvin is too cheap with his money. The two of them feel stuck because of their different views on money. And, to make things even more complicated, Calvin – by conventional definitions – is rich. He and Chanta bring in $250k a year, and based on their savings rate, they’re on track to become multimillionaires. As you listen, notice their backgrounds. What led Calvin to feel this way about money? What motivates a husband to take on such a burden and how can Chantha and Calvin find a middle ground of comfort where they can build a future together? Pay particularly close attention to our discussion around vacation at the end of the episode. Connect with Ramit Website Instagram Twitter Facebook YouTube Linkedin Produced by Crate Media.

Let me share some of the coolest ways that my community has recently used money to live a rich life. One member did a month-long honeymoon in Europe after deciding she didn't want a big wedding. Another member bought a VW SUV that was their dream car that they've wanted for years. And another member made a rule that any time she buys a ticket for an event, she always buys a second so that she can bring a friend. These are just a few examples of how my money coaching members have built systems to use their money. Notice that there's no more anxiety, that they have a smooth running system. They know when their debt's going to be paid off.

They can feel comfortable spending on the things they love. They can actually spend less time on their finances while living an amazing life. In my money coaching program, members also get access to live events every month, including topics like money with aging parents and how to create a lot. amazing vacations. That was one of my favorites where I shared how I spend my money on travel, plus Q&A directly from me. If you want to start building your rich life today, join us and get instant access to our back catalog of years of live calls. Check out IWT.com slash money coaching to join now. That's Iwt.com slash money coaching to join

the program right now. When we look in the venue, I look to the right, but I book the hotels or car or anything, I click on sort by price. Like a lot of people, Calvin has a problem of spending money. It makes him feel anxious, makes him feel guilty. And I wanted to hear his story to understand why. Where did this come from? And how is it affecting his relationship with his partner, Chantha? Calvin has always wanted to be the man of the house and take care of everything until he

came to me and says he keeps going negative after paying for everything. Before we go deeper into this episode, what's your first guess? What do you think is going on here? I'll give you a hint. Let's start way back in Calvin's childhood. Take a listen. I had to do with all, like, phone calls, collection agencies, credit card, or deferring payments and whatnot, like going to like payment plans.

I did all that from my desk, so I knew all that stuff. Wow. How old were you? Elementary. What? Hi, my name is Ramit Sati, and today I'm talking to Calvin and Chantha. Now, they've been together for three years, and until recently, Calvin has insisted on paying for just about everything. The problem is he can't afford to, and he obsesses and agonizes

over money. He feels anxious. He's always looking for the cheapest price. Now, he's in his mid-30s and together Calvin and Chanta make over $250,000 a year and they have over half a million dollars in savings. So why does he feel so bad about money? Let's find out the clues. We'll see what we can do together. He's great. He wants to pay for everything. But the struggle is he obsesses and stresses out over everything also when it comes to money. And so I've always talked to about contributing a percentage of our paychecks into a household expense and combining the household expenses. But Calvin has always wanted to keep a lot of things separate. And he's also wanting to guess be the man of the house and take care of everything, right? Until he came to me and says he

keeps going negative after paying for everything. Our expenses are pretty high. I think I'm paying for too much stuff. And therefore, that's in that in turn makes me worry about money, worry about the costs everything, always looking for the cheapest route or the most cheapest alternative. And I told her, I think that you may not feel that way because you're doing fine because obviously I'm in a negative. You must have extra money because you must feel okay and I don't. Yeah, I think Calvin's two years late on that when we first moved in together, I had discussed this with him in the beginning because I didn't expect him to pay for everything

and I'm more than happy and more than willing to pay for my share. And I think him struggling and realizing that he cannot support the both of us, especially with the way I spend, according to him. And so I think that I'm glad he finally realized it. I think if he had sat down with me and looked at the numbers and went through everything together from the beginning when we first moved in, I don't think he would feel this much anxiety. I realized it a little bit late. I take in about 120,000 a year.

Okay. I get that he wants to pay for everything, but Chanta also has money of her own. Let's find out what's going on with her. Tell me how much you make total per year. About $130,000 a year. Did you catch that? Chanta actually makes more than Calvin does.

Now, there's an obvious solution to this problem, and that is for them to reallocate the way that they do their spending, for them to spend proportionally. So Calvin's spending will go down towards their joint account and Chantas will go up. That just makes sense. And actually, right before we recorded this episode, they made that change. But I still wanted to talk to them to find out what had led them to all this financial anxiety, because I suspect there's something a lot deeper here. We redid our math just a few months ago.

So would you say you contribute roughly the same amount that she does? Yeah, not where we are. Good. Okay, it would be really easy to end the episode right here. Okay, we made a quick change in Excel. Boom, done. That's what so many people think money problems are. They think they are a math problem.

But money problems are almost never a math problem. They're much, much deeper than that. There's something else going on psychologically. something that caused them to get to this point. And now we're going to have to find out what those clues are. Let's start with the fact that Calvin felt he had to pay for everything. What do you think that is? What do you think that comes from?

Originally, I told her you don't have to give me anything. I'll just do what I can on my own. And eventually that didn't work. So then she started treating me a little bit. And now it's still not working out. So we went with this new route where we kind of put into a joint account to pay for joint expenses. Before you were running into the red, how's it working for you now? We just started in the beginning of March.

We're coming up in a few days here, we'll see how it goes. But it should be okay because we really calculated everything out to figure out. And then we came with an average amount that we would need to cover everything, including grocery shopping, potential dinings and even gas. So it should be fine. Okay, good. She's right. I wanted to be the man in house.

I wanted to provide as much as I can. And also just wanted to see how much I can do on my own. In the event, she doesn't want to work anymore or can't work anymore. Let's unpack that. What does man of the house mean to you? Basically, take care of everything, financially. Pretty much that, actually. So pay for everything.

And then what happens? fast forward. Maybe you decide to start a family. What happens? And then I won't be a reporting. Yeah, that could become a problem. Yeah. Okay, you guys came in here as if this was a math problem. This is not a math problem. And I'm really happy that you've both fixed up the allocation. That's awesome. But this has not been solved at all. We still have work to do. Because the real problem is not on the spreadsheet. In fact, put the spreadsheet away. The real issue here is way deeper. It's not going to be found in Excel.

The way they restructure their finances is good. It's probably going to help prevent Calvin from going into the red every month. So I'm really happy to hear that. But there's more here emotionally. There's more behind how Calvin felt that he needed to provide for both of them, even though he couldn't do it financially. And the reason that I want to push on this is that if you just pay, over a problem. If you don't really understand the causes, then it will come up again and again and

again. And with money, especially money and relationships, we want to get to the root cause, we want to fix it once and forever so that we can move forward and create our rich lives. I feel like we value money very differently. I, like, every dollar counts to you where I think For Chanda, sometimes it's, sometimes the convenience is more important or the luxury is more important. I look at the price tag pretty much. I assess on whether or not it's worth it, whether or not I can do it myself or we can find it cheaper elsewhere or do you need it. And we could walk there instead of getting a cab or something like that. Okay.

So let me give a few examples. You tell me if you would think about the price for this. When you go to buy a car, do you comparison shop for prices? I do. Okay. When you think about taking a vacation, do you comparison shop for locations or hotels? Big time, yeah. Okay.

And when you go to the grocery store, do you comparison shop for the type of spaghetti sauce or lettuce that you're going to get? I do. Yeah, I do. So everything? Yeah, everything. Like organic. Do we need organic? When we go on vacation and stuff, if we spend money, it does bring joy.

It's the process of getting there. It's a lot of calculations and weighing out the cost and the value of things. And if you spend an extra 500 bucks, you think it would give you more joy? No. Okay. And what do you think if I asked Chanta that same question, what do you think she would say? I think she's the opposite of everything I say. She values, like I said, she values more of the convenient, organic, doesn't matter if your cost.

It doesn't matter. Valley parking. I'm like, no, let's self park. Let's self park. Stuff like that. Got it. Complete opposite. So let me understand.

I want to know the advantages of this approach, because I think there are a lot of advantages of your approach. And then I want to know what your approach might be costing you. So let's start with what are some of the benefits of your approach? Behavior serve a purpose. There are biological behaviors. Like we sleep when we're tired and we crows. when we're sad. But then we have other types of behaviors, like comparing the price of everything.

Now, they usually get us something, some sense of comfort or status or saving money. But if you take them too far, they can start to cost us a lot. And that's what I'm trying to find out here. What does this cost him? I'm going that I've gotten the best price possible. I don't like overpaying for anything because, again, I just, I work very hard for my money. And I'm not, she thinks we're well off. I don't think we're well off financially. And so I try and spend as low as I can or save as much as I can.

Keep in mind, they make almost $300,000 per year. That in terms makes me like very like not materialistic. I don't shop for expensive clothing. I don't drive expensive cars. That's just out of the question. You're not materialistic. What else? Knowing that I got the best value or the best price that we can get something for,

whether it be like a vacation or food or anything. And what is the advantage of knowing that you got the best price? I didn't overpay for anything. And what's the advantage of that? I didn't use more of my money unnecessarily for our money. unnecessary. Okay, very good. All right. What are the disadvantages of your approach? Oh, I know the disadvantage. It's time-consuming. We have research and I ponder, I weigh out this versus that versus this that. It does take time. I know it does take time. And what else? And then yeah, time and it's just

headache and sometimes we get into disagreements and stuff like that. So those are my disadvantages. That's it? Just the word disagreements? What? Like you call me to come talk about this. Clearly there's... We disagree and it becomes it escalates. Tell me more about that. Because we disagree because we don't see eye to eye on it. And so she thinks it's... She doesn't understand why I'm out shopping to the cheapest one or like the best value,

a bargain. And I don't understand why she doesn't... Why it's not a priority to her. Okay. Chanta, let me hear from you. I think I'm reasonable. I save money. But I do live.

of life. I think that our difference. Calvin doesn't understand how to splurge on himself, and I do that a little bit more. Whether it's myself, my friends, my family, I definitely like splurge on gifts for people. We work hard to make money, so I feel like we should really enjoy it as well. But I don't think that we should spend everything that we make. As long as you are, you're saving and you have a balance, I believe more about having that balance. Calvin, do you agree in having balance? I do. Okay.

So that's good. You both agree on balance. Maybe you just don't agree what balance actually is. That's exactly right. I don't think I make enough for the way she wants to live. That's the thing. What would you say this ranks in terms of the issues that you argue about? Is this the number one thing?

or is it in the top three? It would be the top three. Chanta, you agree with that? Absolutely. Top three, okay. What happens if you both continue on the way that you've been going? You're three years into this relationship. It's somewhat early on.

If you change nothing and you keep going on, what do you think happens? I'm taking a detour here because I understand their issues. Now I want to see if they understand how serious this is. A lot of people, I talked to initially write in with this huge problem. But when we start talking, they minimize it. They'll say, well, it's not really that bad. Or, you know, we only fight once in a while, but overall things are pretty good. Now, that might be, but a four out of ten fight about the price of chicken wings can multiply and calcify and amplify, especially after 40 years of marriage and two kids in a

mortgage. That's why I'm doing something called future pacing right here when I asked them to imagine the future. There's a pretty cool TikTok trend going around right now that I really love. It's called admin nights. Basically, you get your friends together, you get some snacks, maybe some drinks, and you do all the infrastructure stuff in life that most of us skip over. If you're going to set up an admin night, here's my suggestion for you. Use Zoc Doc to book your health appointments, and you will be done fast. Zocdog is a free app and website that helps you find and book high quality in network doctors so you can find someone you love. They have over 150,000 doctors across all 50 states in 200 plus

specialties, including mental health, dental, primary care, whatever you need. Just filter for doctors based on insurance, location, ratings, even virtual care options. And Zocdoc appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. You can look through your options, book an appointment, and you are done. If I needed to find a new doctor today, ZockDoc doc is what I would use. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zocdoc.com slash Rameet to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Zocd-O-C dot com slash Rameh. Zok-D-K-D-com slash Rame.

And I want to thank Zok-Dok for sponsoring this message. Just guess the average wait time to see a doctor. in the United States. I'm not talking about a specialist, just a regular standard family doctor. Do you think it's a week, two weeks? Nope, it's over 30 days. So a lot of times whatever symptoms you have are going to be gone or maybe worse by the time you get to that appointment. I don't want you to have to wait weeks to see a doctor. I want you to get seen faster by an in-network doctor using Zocdoc. Zocdog is a free app and website that helps you find and book high-quality in-network doctors so you can find someone you love. They have over 150,000 doctors across all

50 states in 200-plus specialties, including mental health, dental, primary care, whatever you need. Just filter for doctors based on insurance, location, ratings, even virtual care options. And Zoc-Doc appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. You can look through your options, book an appointment, and you are done. If I needed to find a new doctor today, Zock-Doc-Doc is what I would use. Stop putting off those doctor's appointments and go to Zoc-D-C-com slash Rameet to find and instantly book a doctor you love today. That's Z-O-C-D-C-com slash Rameet.

Zok-D-D-C-com slash Rameh. And I want to thank Zok-Doc-Dak for sponsoring this message. There will be a lot more disagreements and arguments about it. And overall, we wouldn't be happy and it would be hard to be hard to. coordinate or plan anything or yeah just making a plan for anything where we buy something going somewhere doing something yeah on a scale of one to ten how serious do you think it is today and how serious do you think it could become i think it could become very serious because when it when we're talking in terms of having a family and stuff like i see her as no limits in expenses

Like we were to have a kid, no, we need to do this for the kid, we do this, we want this for the kid, no, I want only organic, I want only top shelf items. You know what, I don't trust the school system, I want them to go private school and all that stuff. That's all money and money that I don't have or I don't feel like I have. I'm going to object to certain stuff. And then, you know, it'll lead to me being a bad father or husband or whatnot. I think you're right. I think that it is a, um, nuisance right now, maybe a little bit more than a nuisance. But I think that as you fast forward

and as you're both thinking about a family, it's become way more complicated. Financially and values-wise, from what I hear so far, you don't have an effective joint philosophy. You have two individual philosophies which contradict each other. And so luckily, you're relatively high income, you have low expenses. So you can kind of paper this up, right? Look at it. You have hundreds thousands of dollars in savings. Do you know your savings rate? I save on my own about 20% of my income. They're very savvy with the technical aspects of money.

They're spending less than 11% of their gross income on housing. That's extremely good. They know their numbers. They know their savings rates. That part I'm not concerned with. It's the other part, the what else part that's concerning. What are you going to do with this money? How do you know when you've won?

What is the purpose of a 10.5% spending on your housing? These are the questions that are not found in a spreadsheet, and they are much, much harder for people to grapple with. I decided to go back to Calvin's childhood, learn a little bit more about what he grew up with because I think it has a big, big hint about what's driving him today. It was that. My dad paid for everything.

My mom for a lot of many years of her adult life, she didn't work. And then eventually she did. And even then, I think she didn't pay for anything. She just saved her money. And that's just how it was. It didn't work out, though, because they were always in financial troubles. Why did she go back to work? Maybe it was to help out.

My family did not make a lot of money, and my dad was very poor with managing money. racking up credit card debts, collectors calling, bad credit scores, all that stuff. Writing checks that consistently was insufficient. My parents never had enough money right now. Did they ever say anything to you that made you feel as a kid that you or your family didn't have enough? In their English was very bad. So, of course, I had to deal with all, like, phone calls, collectors, collection agencies, credit card, or even like deferring payments and whatnot, going to.

like payment plans and so i did all that for my dad so i knew all that stuff wow how old were you elementary what yeah i know i saw chanth that she and i don't know if she believed me sometimes but i've been helping my family with their with like financials since i was a little kid wow and and because of that you know what i never asked for any of my parents i never have participated in any extracurricular because i thought it would cost my dad money i never got any toys, I never asked for anything. I didn't go to my prom and I didn't do anything because that wouldn't involve money.

I didn't, I just didn't want to bug you my parents'n about it. I can't have been easy to have, to take on that adult role as an elementary school kid. That's unbelievable. Suddenly a lot of Calvin's financial anxiety makes sense. He's been living with a

worldview of scarcity since he was in elementary school. And he's been fixing money problems, catch that word fixing, not seeing money as joy, but as a problem to be fixed and managed since he was a little kid. So we can sit here and tell Calvin to spend more on organic cheese, but because of his lived experiences, he literally sees money differently than Chanta does. You told me that when you were young, you said not enough. And then as you got older, going to prom and schools, it almost seems like you just didn't even ask. What did you start to

believe about money as you grew up. I don't want to be like not having to not have enough money for things. Are your family still in the same financial situation? They're better not because of me. I still help them monitor it and manage it until the stay. Yeah. It's hard to explain. My dad's just really poor with it. He'll write a check and sends it out and then he goes to the ATM or withdraws whatever he needs to withdraw from cash and then sees the balance on there and thinks that's much he has left, not realizing that there's two or three checks that's floating in the mail system that's going to potential to people that are going to be depositing it, then he ends up insufficient fun. And I see it because I log into his account once in a while, and I checked.

And I don't know what's going on. That's got to be frustrating and also something that you've been doing it for what 30 plus years must be something you just learned to live with. Yeah. We grew up in Hawaii. I came here when I was 17. So in the year in the year 2000, I got him into those credit debt payment plans and stuff like that to get him out of it. And he did. He actually, I made sure he was on track. And then eventually he got out of it. He got his credit went back up and he was doing really well.

And I think he's fallen off again. But now I got my sister, my younger sister, to help out with managing. I just set up like direct payments and automatic payments for him and stuff like that. So it's when he writes those checks that he just doesn't understand that. that writing a check, it means that's what the money's going to be. He just doesn't realize that. He's always, wait, I thought I saw my ATM receipt. I still had $1,000 in the account.

I said, yeah, but what about the $500 check you wrote two days ago? He questions their every purchase. He questions kind of their every move and decision, but I see why he had to. It's a lot of responsibility for him to hold, and he still continues to carry on that responsibility. It's just hard because I see it affecting us and our finances and how he questions a lot of the things that I buy as well.

But I always try to remind him, I'm not in the same financial position as his parents. I think it's pretty cool that Chanta understands Calvin's childhood actually affects him. Now, that understanding is, that's not going to make their money problems disappear, but at least that understanding is a really great sign that the two of them can take this journey together. I will say, though, I'm not sure Calvin has actually connected. his childhood with his financial behaviors of today, the anxiety, the constant comparing costs of everything, and the stress that is putting on their relationship. I spent over 20 years fine-tuning my core message from I will teach you to be rich of living

your rich life, which is why I was so thrilled when Masterclass reached out and asked me to teach a class. Because I've spent so many years helping people define their rich life. life. My financial wellness class is now available on Masterclass where I cover how to automate your finances so your money works for you in your sleep, how to break free from financial anxiety, and how to create a financial system to live your own true rich life. With Masterclass, you learn from the best to become your best. Plans started just $10 a month and you get unlimited access to over 200 classes taught by the world's best business leaders, writers, chefs. and now me. Plus, there's no risk. Every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee,

so you can try it out before you commit. I've used Masterclass myself. I've paid for it on my own, and I loved it. And a big part of my rich life is learning from the best. So Masterclass makes perfect sense for me, and I think it will make a lot of sense for you. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at Masterclass.com slash remit. That's 15% off at Masterclass.com. slash remit. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash remit. Masterclass.com slash remit. I talk a lot about the $3 versus $30,000 questions that so many of us are obsessed with. And that same principle applies to kids too.

It's really easy to get caught up in the small stuff. Did I remember to buy cheez-its? Do they need new socks? But the bigger things, like will they be protected if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, those things often get pushed to the wayside. Not anymore. This year, start by asking the big questions and protect your family by getting term life insurance from this episode sponsor, Fabric by Gerber Life. Fabric by Gerber Life is term life insurance you can get done today. It's made for busy parents like you. It's all online on your schedule right from your

couch. You could be covered in under 10 minutes with no health exam required. If you've got kids, especially if you're young and healthy, now is the best time to lock in rates. And even if you have life insurance through your employer, it may not be enough to protect your family, especially if you leave your job or get let go. Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to help protect their family. You can apply today in just minutes at meetfabric.com slash remit. M-E-E-T-Fabric.com slash remit. Policies issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in

certain states, prices subject to underwriting and health questions. When you think about your own relationship with money today, what role do you think that your family upbringing had in that relationship? It makes me just never want to be in debt and be in that position. Because what? I don't know. I just don't want it because it just doesn't help me. It's going to cause our problem.

But I don't like that. And that's why I don't feel good when I'm at the end of the month when I'm in the red. What happens if you get into it? debt. It's hard to get out. Yeah. What else? I would have to work more to, to make the money. What happened to your dad as he got worse and worse with his money? Again, him and my mom began to argument financially. He was going there too. That's it. I mean, my dad, I don't think he cares. It seems like he cares, but I don't think he cares. So how come you care? Because I think it's going to fall on to me.

the event that anything happens. Because I'm the one that's the most successful financially, on paper, the most successful in our family. And you've been doing it for so long, too. You've been helping them in so many ways. Yeah. Yeah. Did your parents look at the prices of stuff when you were a kid? They do, but they don't, they don't, what do you know, they don't weigh it out and how much is worth and stuff.

Like they don't create Excel models to compare it? Nothing. No, none of that stuff. And they just buy it. And they don't think about it too much about it. Up until this day, they just buy unnecessary things they don't really eat. They buy too much of things they should be buying. And when they do that, how does it make you feel? It frustrates me.

And I actually get to arguments with them too. Yeah. And when Chanta buys valet parking, how does it make you feel? I don't like it either. Any connection between the two? No, the only connection is I just don't want to spend the money for that because I don't think we need it. I'm wearing a pretty nice shirt right now. I don't need it.

I don't need it at all. I could have bought it at Target. Target has very nice clothes, but I decided I like it. So I bought it. What do you think about that? Is that unnecessary? No, but if you can afford it, then that's fine. Good.

That's a great answer. How do you know if you can afford valet parking? 15 bucks, let's say. Yeah, and I've told Chanta, I tell that when I pay my bills and I'm not in the red anymore, then maybe we can figure if I'm in the red, that we shouldn't be paying more for luxury. Chanta, do you agree with that?

Yeah, I agree with that. Okay, good. We have a lot of zone, a big zone of agreement here, still feeling out the zone of disagreement. So do you both have any money rules that are important to you jointly? We don't have any money rules yet. For example, I read your book. I follow you, you know, like all about using your points or plane tickets, hotels,

and I'm all about that. And Calvin is too, but he micromanages how we spend our points, our free points. And so it's, I think if we come up with some good money rules, and it would be good for us to both follow because in my mind, I see them as free points. It's okay how we spend it because they're free. But Calvin completely disagrees

and has his own way of wanting to spend it. I'm moving on from Calvin's childhood into their spending with money today. See, sometimes when people talk about their childhood, they instantly get it. They can connect how their upbringing is causing their financial issues today. But sometimes they need more.

time to make those connections. It needs to sit and settle. So let's shift into how Calvin and Chantah spend on vacations now. Now jointly come up with a money rule that would serve both of you? Yeah. What would be a rule that both of you could feel good about? My general rule is no valet. We can walk. That's something I can come up right away off the top of head. Of course. You say it like it's a surprise. We all knew that's a given. I was kind of hoping for a money rule that would give them permission to spend more here, but at least he's trying. It runs deep inside you that you want to spend as little as possible.

I get that. That's your natural inclination. And like we talked about, that can serve you in a lot of ways. You're probably never going to run out of money. But again, what do you think the downside of that is, Calvin? Yeah, this is time. That's one. What else?

I don't like you get really bad quality things. Calvin, when you go on vacation, do you want to stay at a holiday inn? First of all. Before I met her, yeah, I stayed holiday in. Okay, fair enough. First of all, I got nothing against holiday in. I stayed there when I was a kid. It's a great family hotel.

But Calvin, can I point something out to you? Yeah. I don't think Calvin realizes just how wealthy he is. And I know for a fact that he does not realize how wealthy he will be. You are going to be a multi-millionaire. Did you know that? No, that sounds great. I didn't know that.

You already are a multimillionaire. You don't even know it yet. You just need time. I already calculated how much you have and how much you're contributing. You are already a multimillionaire. You just need to let your investments sit and keep compact. And the more you add, the more it's going to grow. Now, let me ask you this, Calvin.

Let's say you're sitting on $3 million. Do you still want to stay at Holiday Inn? No. Okay, good. Let's say you're sitting on 500 grand. Do you still want to stay a holiday in? Yeah. Okay, a million?

No. Wow. So at a million bucks, it changes from Holiday Inn to you're willing to stay somewhere else. Is that right? Yeah. You can afford more than a holiday in right now. Do you know that you are rich? No.

Yeah. Because ever since you were an elementary school kid, you've been poor. So you have gotten a great job. You have a very good income. It combined with your girlfriend, Chanta, you have a very good household income. Your savings are quite good in terms of percentage, per year and your expenses are low. And yet, this is not a math problem. This is all psychology. And so it's funny, you even just said at a million dollars, you would switch away from a holiday

in. But a holiday inn costs 150 bucks a night. That's a decimal error. Do you see how it's not a math problem here that there's something else going on. You're already rich and you're getting richer every day. But until you can internalize that, you will always hold on tightly to parking, hotels, salad, burritos, whatever. And look, personally, I don't care if you want to go for a cheap burrito and that's just not important to you. My car is 16 years old. It's not important to me. Still works. It's a great car. Honda. Love it. But there are other things that I buy a really nice vacation. And there are even some things where I say, I'm going to give myself no budget. I will spend anything because it's important to me and I can afford it. So, Kavan, hearing that, how does that

strike you. It feels good to hear that, but I think because you're looking at it in a long-term perspective, for me, it's just down to the end of the month. This is really common with people who have anxiety around money. They look at everything month to month, and that is as far as they can look. It's kind of like driving in the fog where you can only see 50 feet in front of you. Of course you're going to be nervous. Of course you're going to be going to be going to be slow. of course you're going to be worrying about all the things that can go wrong. You're only seeing 50 feet in front of you. My job is to zoom out and show you the big picture.

Your rich life, not just your rich month. The funny thing, though, even though you're living month to month, you've managed to accumulate six figures in savings. That's no joke. And yet, you are... obsessing words that I heard today obsessing. You're talking about like $10 expenses, but you have over $200,000 in savings, both independently and jointly. Do you know how much your money right now turns into by the time you're 65 if you just keep contributing the same amount? Any idea how

much it turns into? No. Take a guess. It's a good guess. It's 3.6 million. But if you wanted to make a five million, it wouldn't be that hard. Five million bucks. What do you think is going to change when you have five million dollars? I mean, I won't, yeah, I wouldn't worry about those things anymore. You think? It's just magically overnight. You're just going to stop worrying about all financial items. It happens overnight. Yeah, it will magically overnight. Not think about it. Never happens. If you got five million dollars tomorrow, you know what you would be doing the night after. But you'd be on Expedia comparing the prices of Holiday Inn, and you'd be like, let's get a sweet at Holiday Inn. Oh, thank you. Believe me, you think you would magically change an entire lifetime of restricting yourself just because you have money in your bank account, but you already have hundreds of thousands of dollars and you still treat money like you're poor.

I think Calvin's very hard on himself and he's very modest as well. And I try to get him to celebrate even small wins. And it's really hard for him to do that. And so hopefully coming from somebody else like you and not me, I feel like I'm his biggest cheerleader anyway, but coming from you, I hope he internalizes that and really starts appreciating what we have and worrying a lot less and having a lot less.

and having a lot less anxiety because I feel like a lot of the times it's what's in his mind that really hurts him. One of the best ways to learn is by actually doing it. So let's try it right now. Let's dream a little. I'd like you to take 30 seconds to think about what is on your bucket list, the things you want to do in the next 10 to 15 years, big things. I'd like to be able to travel and go to build.

multi-country trips and do all the excursions and do all that stuff. Not to worry about what's it going to cost. The only other country I've been to is London once. That's it. I've never been to anywhere else. What's the place that comes to mind first if you could go anywhere? I definitely want to go back to Southeast Asia. My aunt lives there right now in Cambodia.

And I've always wanted to, she donates a lot to the temples and I think a few temples now and she's retired there. But we've always talked about the schools there. I'm a teacher. And so there's lots of just time I want to donate to either teach English to help rebuild the school. To do something good like that, partnered with my aunt, to help the community because that's where my family is from. I want to go there too. We talked about it.

We had some events to eventually do that. Originally it was last year, but pandemic, we canceled it. We held off a book in 18 because we weren't sure. how it was going to happen. So do you think you'll go when you can soon? Maybe next year. As right now, yeah, I would still be the way I am and still probably like backed out the cost for everything.

He would probably stay with my aunt where I would want to go to the hotels because there's so much cheaper. Our dollar goes a long way there and I would not want to stay with my aunt. I wouldn't want to stay with her aunt. I probably wouldn't pick the resort there. That's the equivalent to a four season, so that's equivalent to Rich Carlton. I don't classify as being that level. Let's say that's like a 10.

We don't need to say at 10. We can stay at a 7 or 8. I love that you both are into going to Cambodia. I love it. I would like for you to both sit down, and I'd like you to talk about dream-cove- trip. When you first start conceiving this trip, you're not going to talk about cost, then you're going to think about how much you can afford and then you can go and plan it. I suspect that both of you

may disagree on how much you can afford. Anybody have a sense of what number you think you're going to come up with? Like 6,000. Okay. Chanta? Yeah, I was thinking 10,000. Oh, you guys are in the range. Seriously, at least it wasn't 6,000 and 60,000. You guys are so close. Do you realize $4,000 out of $250,000 of income every year? That's like nothing. That's awesome. You guys are there.

Calvin, let me ask you a question. If both of you said, if you said six and she says 10, do you trust Chanta? With anything. I don't trust it with making fun. I wouldn't trust it to book a trip for me. Why is that? Because it's going to be four seasons, valet parking, and room service, left and right. And what's going to happen if she does that?

The premium package and stuff. And what's going to happen then? This is called the so then what technique. When people are worried about something with their money, I ask them, so then what? And I asked them again and again. And usually the very thing they feared is not that big of a deal at all. Why is it that people who tell me I'm stupid on social media always have the profile picture of a jar of mustard?

You think I'm going to take your advice about investing when your username is Pontiac Plummer 48? No, thank you. Instead, I trust professionals when I need help with my business like you can do using Gelt this coming tax season. Gelt is a modern CPA firm that helps you take control of your tax strategy ahead of time. They'll help you think strategically,

like how to structure your business, where to maximize key. deductions and how to use the tax code to your benefit. Plus, their platform makes it easy to stay organized, working with your tax team year round, not just when deadlines hit. So whether you are a business owner, whether you are self-employed, this is the proactive move you can make now to save thousands next April. If you want this tax season to actually work for you, not against you, go to join gelt.com slash remit to get started. As part of this community, you'll even get to skip the wait list because this year it's not about catching up, it's about getting ahead.

What's the area of life that you want to spend more on this year? A lot of people will say health or relationships. Some people will say travel. Let's talk about food and health for just a second. For example, in my life, my wife and I both decided we're going to spend more on health. And that means having a personal trainer. It means having someone make meals tailored to our macros so that we don't have to think about it. But you don't have to pay for a private chef to do that. One great option is to make healthy eating convenient by getting meals from Factor. They take the work out of healthy, macro-dense meals so you can start eating better now. Factor is a chef-crafted, dietitian-approved meal delivery service that fits into your goals and

schedule. Their meals arrive fresh, not frozen, and they're ready to eat in two minutes. No prep, no cleanup, just heat it and go. There are over 100 meals to choose from every week. High-protein, calorie, smart Mediterranean, even GLP1 support options. And unlike most meal prep, there's a lot of variety. So you're not locked into the same boring meals every single time. If you're looking to eat healthier starting right now, this is exactly what I would use. Head to factormeals.com slash remit 50 off and use code remit 50 off to get 50% off your first factor box plus free breakfast for one year. Offers only valid for new factor customers with code and quality. qualifying auto renewal subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with factor.

It's going to be a big deal at the end. And what happens then? We can't afford it. I'm answering that's the question based on how I feel right now. I totally get it and I totally respect you for being so honest. He's almost there, but I just need to get Calvin a little more comfortable with the idea of spending. So I'm going to do an inversion exercise with him. Let's rewind. And this time I want you to answer every answer in the opposite way you just answered it.

Just play for just 20 seconds with me. Watch. Do you trust Chanta? Yes. Would you trust her to book a trip for you? Yes. If she booked a trip for you, would it be at a beautiful hotel with beautiful room service and all that stuff? Yes.

Could you afford it? Yes. okay how did that make you feel to say can we actually do this for real because first of all you can afford it and second of all you have a trip coming up so let's just play it out hey i'm not going to tell you what to say it's your money both of your money and it's your answer but let's play it out calvin do you trust chanta to book a trip to cambodia for you yes chanta Chanta, do you understand where Calvin is coming from when he's sometimes concerned about you booking a trip for him?

Yes. Okay. Calvin, do you think that if Chanta booked a trip, it would be a memorable experience for both of you? Yeah, I know it will. Chanta, do you think you would ever regret going to Cambodia with Calvin? No. I hope no.

Calvin, would you trust Chanta to handle all the airfare bookings for this trip? Sure. I would. I think you should take a moment to really celebrate that because that is absolutely amazing what you just did. Chantha, what do you think? I just want to go give him a hug. And you a hug as well. That simple answer you just gave me shows so much of what you've done in this conversation.

Are you psychologically prepared to acknowledge that for a trip you take once every three years, the prices are basically irrelevant for you? Yeah. It's a big change. It's a big trip, and then the experience is going to be important. So I have to trust chat with all the booking and stuff. I love it. I love everything you just said.

You talked about experience. That's your money lens on this trip. And you trust her. What could be a better experience than starting out by saying, I trust you? If you've enjoyed this episode, follow and subscribe to I will teach you to be rich on whatever podcast platform you use. And please leave a rating and review. It really helps us, especially because we're so new. you to the game. Thanks for listening, and I'll see you next week. Here's what you'll find next week

on the I Will Teach You to Be Rich podcast. I feel like it's a huge weight that we're both caring. Like John was a second kid. He's thinking about it. And I'm just like, no, like we have to pay this off. We need to make this into manageable amount. And then we can do something else. It's like, I want to cry. Like, oh, my God. How come? it's not getting any lower.