Morning Brew Daily - $100K H1-B Visa Fee Upends Tech Sector & Murdochs Involved in TikTok Deal?

Episode Date: September 22, 2025

Episode 675: Neal and Toby discuss the impact of the new $100K annual fee for H1-B Visas that has tech companies scrambling. Plus, details emerge from the pending TikTok deal that could bring ownership to the US. Also, Hamburger Helper sales are boosted by Americans trying to save money on food. Meanwhile, prizes are handed out to the quirkiest scientists in the world. Finally, what you need to know in the week ahead.  00:00 - Get your MBD live show tickets! 2:50 - Costly H1-B Visa fee 7:20 - TikTok deal imminent 11:30 - Hamburger helper booms 17:00 - Ig Nobel prize winners 21:00 - Week Ahead You can try reMarkable Paper Pro Move for 100 days for free. If it’s not what you’re looking for, get your money back. Get your paper tablet at https://www.remarkable.com today Get your MBD live show tickets here! Presale code LETSRIDE Subscribe to Morning Brew Daily for more of the news you need to start your day. Share the show with a friend, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app. Listen to Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.swap.fm/l/mbd-note⁠⁠⁠  Watch Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@MorningBrewDailyShow⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And I'm Toby Howell. Today, tech companies are in panic mode after the White House slapped a huge fee on worker visas. Then stop me if you've heard this one before. The U.S.-China TikTok deal is close to being finalized. It's Monday, September 22nd. Let's ride. Good morning and welcome back to the week. Did you know that Harry Stiles ran the Berlin Marathon in less than three hours yesterday?

Okay, now that I have your attention, I want to remember. mind you that Morning Brew Daily is hosting a live holiday show in early December and pre-sale tickets are available now. We'll send off 2025 in style by reliving the year in business news playing some pre-show games. And if I get my way, dyeing Toby's hair blonde. We already started planning the show and the lineup is looking more stacked than Coachella. Toby, what are the details? The details are this is going to be the greatest live variety show. The business news world has ever seen. We're hosting it at the Bell House in Brooklyn, a fantastic venue. And right now, we are still in that special presale period, which means you need to enter a special presale code

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If tech executives and their lawyers had any week and plans they were abruptly canceled after a new visa rule from the Trump administration sowed chaos across the sector. On Friday, the president signed an executive order, adding a new $100,000 fee for H-1B visas, which are granted to high-skilled foreign workers and utilized heavily by the American tech sector. With the rule going into effect Sunday right after midnight, tech companies sprung into action to make sure their H-1B employees wouldn't be stranded overseas. Companies including Amazon, JPMorgan, Alphabet, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs, and Walmart, all advised their H-1B holders to either stay in the United

States or get their butts back by 12.01 a.m. Eastern on Sunday. One software engineer told the BBC, he spent $8,000 on plane tickets to get back to the U.S. from India, where he had been attending a family wedding. On Saturday, Trump officials tried to smooth things over by clarifying that the $100,000 fee would only be applied to new visa applications and wouldn't affect existing holders, which is not what was suggested in the announcement on Friday. So things still remain very much in flux for companies and immigration lawyers who are burning the midnight oil trying to figure out what this all means. One attorney told the New York Times, there's a lot of question marks all over this. We're still flying in somewhat foggy conditions. So this represents the Trump administration's largest overhaul of

legal immigration and will have huge consequences for the economy. What is the reasoning behind it? Trump has long been at odds with the H-1B program because he wants to ensure that Americans are the first in line for these high-paying scarce tech jobs. Although economists argue that these programs that allow these workers to come to the U.S. allow businesses to maintain their competitiveness. And if you're a competitive business, what are you doing? You're growing, which leads to more job creation. But again, Trump has been beating this drum since all the way back in his 2016 campaign saying that the H-1B program deprioritizes American workers. So this is his latest attempt to rewrite the calculus and make it much more difficult for companies to sponsor these

foreign workers because you just raised the price tag exponentially. So which companies actually use the H-1B program? Amazon employed the most H-1B holders last year, more than 14,000 at the end of June. And then Microsoft, Apple, and Google, each had over 4,000 visas each. They are among the top 10 recipients for the fiscal year 2025. So here's how it works. It's basically there's 85,000 possible visas that are awarded each year. And companies enter this a lot of. to apply for them and over 400,000 of these requests are made. They're such in high demand. And that's because some of the top executives or the top corporate leaders in the United States

have come to the United States through the H1B program. Eric Yuan Zoom founder, Sundar Pichai, the Alphabet CEO, Saitianidella, Microsoft CEO, Indra, the former Pepsi CEO, and Sanjay Mirotra, the Micron CEO, all came to the United States through the H1B program. and proponents of it say, well, this is how we bring in talent to the United States. This is how we maintain our competitiveness on the global scale. And if we're locked in this fight with China for AI, and this is the global technology race of our times,

and we're just kneecapping ourselves by sort of making it almost impossible for companies to pay up for this. And then speaking of kneecapping in the domestic world, it's not just our competition with China. You have to think about it's competition within the United States. Who is this going to favor if these visas are so expensive to sponsor? It's going to favor Big Tech. It is much more difficult for a startup who maybe just raised a seed round to pay $100,000 to get a high-skilled workers. It is much easier for Amazon. For Apple, they have plenty of cash so they can continue to attract these workers and pay for them. So it might tilt the playing field even further in the favor of Big Tech when it comes to competing with smaller startups.

And right now, it costs $215 to register for an H-1B visa lottery, and then an additional $780 for an employer to actually sponsor visa applicants. Estimates right now suggest that this new $100,000 fee should companies pay it, will saddle them totally with $14 billion in extra costs. There's a question of whether this will just scuttle the program entirely because paying $100,000 for just a single worker just may not be feasible. not only for startup, certainly for startups, but also even for the biggest companies. Last week, when the White House announced a deal for a U.S. investor group to take over TikTok's algorithm, details were few and far between. But yesterday, President Trump revealed a who's-who of tech and media giants are lining up ad club TikTok to be involved, including Oracle co-founder Larry Ellison, Dell founder Michael Dell, and Fox News owners, Lachlin and Rupert Murdoch.

Previously, the Wall Street Journal had reported that the TikTok consortium would also include the PE firm Silver Lake and the VC firm, and Driesen Horowitz. Still, as Axios points out, what's still entirely unclear is exactly who's involved, in what capacity, what price they will pay, who will lead the new entity, or when any deal will actually happen.

The general premise behind this deal is that TikTok will move its U.S. users to a new app with its own content recommendation system designed by the company's engineers. Bike Dance, TikTok's parent company, would retain under 20% ownership of the new company, while the remainder would be held by the U.S. investors and overseen by a majority American board. The final aspect of this convoluted deal is that the Trump administration is likely to reap a multi-billion dollar fee

in exchange for negotiating the agreement with China as it once again dabbles in playing private sector kingmaker. Neil, the TikTok saga has felt like it's taking longer to put together than a midnight doom scroll session, but it looks like it's in the home stretch. Yeah, Harry Styles ran a marathon faster than, uh, then how long this deal is taking place. Caroline Levitt, the White House spokesperson on Saturday, said, we are 100% confident that a deal is done. Now that deal just needs to be signed. And the president's team is working with their Chinese counterparts to do just that. She added that six of the seven board members of the new U.S. app will be Americans.

The algorithm will also be controlled by America. The way they're going to do this, it looks like, is they're going to spin out a new U.S. entity or a new U.S. TikTok app, whether that means you have to download a new TikTok app remains to be seen. 50% of this new company will be run by new investors like Oracle and Andreessen Horowitz and perhaps more names that we don't quite know yet. 30% will be existing bite dance investors and then 20% will be bite dance that Chinese company. And that's according to this law that went into effect in January 2025, passed in bipartisan fashion in Congress that requires any that requires, take.

TikTok for it to be operating in the United States to have Chinese ownership of less than 20%. I think the fascinating part of this deal, though, is the fact that Trump administration is taking this fee from putting it together. Typically, investment bankers receive a fee of under 1% of a deal's total value. This is now the Trump administration saying we've basically acted like investment bankers in this regard. Where is our fee? And it's just a pattern we've seen now. We've already seen Trump cut deals with Nvidia and Intel. And it takes 15%. of NVIDIA's AI chip sales in China exchange for giving them those export

license. It just bought a 10% stake in Intel. This has been a massive theme of the entire administration thus far of it, dabbling in the private sector, playing state capitalism, as we like to call it. So fascinating that this is once again, as this deal has come together, like we want some sugar on top

of it because we played a role in instrumenting it, even though Congress is one that passed the deal in the first place. And what's fascinating is why China is selling quote unquote TikTok to the United States now because for years they've held off and they've been very hard in negotiations and saying we're not going to give you TikTok. But perhaps like a poker player and you play poker, like you can lose a small pot in order to win a bigger one later. And China just has some much bigger

fish to fry than TikTok in their minds. I'm talking tariffs, technology, AI, and Taiwan. These are all things that matter maybe a little bit more to them than having TikTok under Chinese ownership. This algorithm that is vaunted is maybe a little bit old now. getting a little rusty. It was five years ago that this thing really came on to the scene. They're willing to part with it in order to score much bigger wins later. And what they really want is a meeting with Trump. They want Trump to come to Beijing for that big state ceremony where you know, they can really project power on the global stage. Yeah, Trump thinks that he's squaring the circle here. He is one, punishing China. Two,

he's trying to enrich U.S. investors. And he's also trying to, you know, keep TikTok alive to secure that youth vote that he has been after for so long. Welcome to Winners of the weekend, the segment where Toby and I pick two things that are in better shape than Harry Styles. I win the pre-show One Direction trivia, so I get to go first. And my winner is Hamburger Helper, because when the going gets tough, the tough by mid-century one-pot meals. Sales of hamburger helper, which contains pasta and seasoning to combine with ground beef, are up 14.5% through August of this year, according to the brand's owner Eagle Foods. It's further evidence that Americans are looking to eat on the cheap as inflation continues to stay elevated and the job market slows down. Other foods you'd associate with the zombie apocalypse are also getting a boost.

Rice purchases have increased 7.5% this year while sales of tuna, salmon, sardines, beans, and box mac and cheese are all strong, the New York Times reported. So Toby, add the hamburger helper economy to the list of alternative recession indicators you've been keeping, alongside lipstick and Lady Gaga on the radio, to mail. for hamburger helper also spiked in 2008 during the financial crisis and in 2020 when the COVID pandemic hit. Bad news for the economy is great news for highly processed boxed meal kits. There's almost two trends colliding here at the same time. One, obviously inflation pressures and rising beef prices do make hamburger helper a more appealing food option. But at the same time, we are in this healthier eating movement right now.

And hamburger helper is a very processed food. One box alone has 27% of your daily sodium in a single serving. So I am curious to see if which one of these is going to win out. I would assume it is just the fact that it is getting really expensive to buy food right now. So we are seeing sales increase. You don't necessarily think about how healthy a food is if you're just trying to make ends meet. But it is fascinating to see it come to. It's almost fighting upstream right now against every other thing we've been seeing in the food industry right now,

just because it is bang for your buck. It's always historically represented bang for your buck. It's $2. Yeah. So it does remind you of the 1970s. In 1971, that's when General Mills released hamburger helper in five flavors, including beef noodle, rice oriental, and chili tomato. It was a massive hit.

A quarter of U.S. households purchased a box in its first year, according to General Mills. It expanded since it has 50 flavors. It switched ownership, a few. times. Now, this Cleveland-based company, Eagle Foods, bought it in 2020, said it was being neglected a little bit, and it made some changes to increase sales and demand a little bit more. It made it faster. So previously, it took 30 to 45 minutes to make. Now they want, now they're saying consumers want to eat really quickly. So they try to make it in 20 minutes by reducing the amount of water and

cooking time. And then they added some different recipes and flavors to jive with the American consumer now, which is that we want spicy things. So they, introduced this new flavor called spicy jalapeno cheeseburger, among others, to just adapt to changing taste, and it's really paying off right now. Well, I think what's funny about making it faster is they didn't actually change the formulation that much. They figured out that people in the past were cooking their pasta way too much, cooking it to mushy level, but now consumers have realized that Al Dente is where it's at. So they didn't necessarily have to reformulate a lot. They just say, listen, people, you don't need to leave it in there for 40 minutes. You can leave it in there for

only 20 minutes. And then the final thing that kind of gave it some tailwind without them even trying is that there was a big cameo in The Bear in the recent seasons, which kind of created this viral wave of interest in a product that people haven't necessarily been thinking about that much. So it's got a little bit of nostalgia. It's got a little bit of a modern push from a modern TV show. And I'm a little hungry. I've never tried Hamburger Helper once in my life. So maybe this is a sign. Let's take a little bit. quick break and come back with my winner of the weekend. Good sleep is everything.

That's why Ali's science back support is made with a blend of melatonin and L-D-A-Nine for both kiddos and grown-ups. So when your mind won't switch off, you've got something that can help. You're racing thoughts and restless nights won't stand a chance. Find Ollie's sleep solutions for the whole family at ollie.com. That's OLLL-L-Y.com. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179, like the next grill three-burner gas grill.

Or get $50 off a select Weber Spirit grill and bring big flavor to your backyard. Then set the scene with Hampton Bay string lights that bring it all together. Shop spring backyard days for seven days at the Home Depot. Now through May 6th, Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. My winner of the weekend is the silliest of serious scientific award shows, the annual Ig Nobel Prizes. The prestigious ceremony honors the achievements that first make people laugh and then make them think, according to the website of the Nobel Prize parody show. This year, some of the winners of the competition included Japanese researchers who found that

painting zebra stripes on cows actually cut down on painful flybites. Over in Italy, some physicists cracked the code to making Kachioa Pepe without turning it into a clumpy mess. You need a precise starch ratio. In West Africa, rainbow lizards were found to have a sense of taste after they kept opting for one type of pizza over another. And in perhaps the strangest diet proposal yet, some scientists suggested adding powdered teflon, yes, the non-stick coating from frying pans to some meals as a zero-calorie filler to make them feel more satiating. Neil, as always, this is an award show that highlights the kind of work that makes you laugh first, then pause to wonder if maybe, just maybe,

they're onto something. Any scientific breakthroughs blow you away this year? Well, one that I thought was interesting is that these German researchers look to see whether being drunk or at least having some alcohol made you a better speaker of a foreign language. I don't know if anybody has traveled here. They go to a bar. They're feeling a little insecure about talking in the language because maybe they spoke, maybe they learned Spanish in eighth grade and stop. And then you have a few drinks in you, and then all of a sudden it's flowing out. You know, you got your bibliothecas going. So they actually did an experiment.

They recruited 50 native German-speaking undergrads and then had them speak Dutch with fluent Dutch speakers and gave half, you know, a few alcoholic drinks and half not. And they did find that the half that did have a drink or two spoke better Dutch. So there you go. There you have it. If you've ever wanted to learn Dutch on Duolingo, just have a little bit of a drink first. Also, that wasn't the only drinking related one. Researchers also studied how ethanol affects fruit bats flying in echolocation, and they did find that if you got a little drunk as a bat,

they flew slower and echolocated less effectively. So alcohol consumption to animals does increase accident risk, much like it does in humans as well. I do want to shout out this Japanese research team, though, who found that painting stripes on beef cows made them less prone to getting bitten by flies. they were so excited. They said, when I did this experiment, I hope that I would win the Ig Noble. It's my dream. So they actually were, you know, trying to set up to win this award. And then they came on stage. They were dressed in stripes. And one fellow researcher was harassing him with cardboard flies. So they really, you know, leaned into the bit, which is the whole point of these silly awards. This ceremony is all camp. And it's so great. There's a few different, there's a few unique things that they do during this ceremony. It's one called 24, lectures where experts of these scientists have to explain their work twice. Once in 24 seconds

and the second in just seven words. There's also a miniature opera about gastroenterologists and their patients. I would love to hear that. And then the final thing, Nate Bargatsy, you really have to take notes because this is how you get people to stop rambling when they accept an award. After a minute goes by and you accept your award, a man wearing a dress over a suit appears right next to the person speaking and just yells, please stop. I'm bored, which is what maybe some people do after this podcast. So we love the Ig Nobel Prize. We can't wait for next year.

And it's just a great way to bring science to the popular imagination. It's Monday. So here's what you need to know to stay ahead in the week ahead. Hundreds of world leaders and diplomats will go through customs at JFK as they descend on New York City for the United Nations General Assembly. This UNGA will mark 80 years since the UN's creation and be dominated by issues such as Palestinian statehood, the war in Ukraine, and the war in Sudan. President Trump will address the UN gathering on Tuesday, while plenty of important meetings between heads of state will take

place in the background. It's always fascinating. You see one set of headlines saying how important these global issues are to being discussed, and it is. There's a lot of very important things being discussed. And then there's always one article, usually from the New York Times, saying, worst week for traffic in the New York City because everything gets so congested with the security forces at play. So they recommend trying to find non-driving modes for getting around Midtown over the next few days. So if you catch me running around out there, that's just because I'm trying to do non-driving modes of transportation. Golf fans are counting down the days until Friday when the Ryder Cup tees off. This competition held once every two years pits the best American golfers

against the best European golfers and gets about as heated and rowdy as professional golf can muster. This year's Rider Cup is being held just 35 miles from Manhattan at the brutally hard Bethpage Black Horse in Long Island. So we think Team USA can pull it off. I am so excited. Absolutely our boys can pull it off. Neil, you're going. I am not. And it stinks because I've played Bethpage. So I know my way around the place. I could have helped Scotty with a couple of reads here and there, but please heckle Rory. You would have been unsufferable anyway. So I'm glad you're not going. Okay, nature's most popular reality show kicks off tomorrow with the beginning. inning of Fat Bear Week. Now in its 11th year, Fat Bear Week is a bigger deal than ever as more

than 1 million people from 100 countries cast their vote on the fattest bear at Cotmite National Park and Preserve in Alaska. Toby, these guys are bigger than Jordan Davis. Past champion 747, aka Bear Force 1, is estimated to weigh 1,400 pounds. That is a lot of salmon. He's guzzling down ahead of hibernation. And the Chicago Bears won yesterday. Everything coming up. for bears right now. These bears, I saw someone write a story about how their peak celebrities. They're very captivating, but totally oblivious at the same time. Bear cramps are streaming their lives to the world, but all they know is salmon and sleep. That is exactly how you want to be famous. You're so famous that you don't even know you're famous. You are oblivious just living your life, and yet you have

these millions of legions of fans. And apparently the salmon run has been plentiful this year because Fat Bear Week usually starts in early October, but today is September 22nd. so they moved it up because these bears are already just so fat already. A few more tidbits. Your movie snob friend already has tickets to Friday's release of one battle after another, the latest film from acclaimed director, Paul Thomas Anderson, or PTA, who did Boogie Nights and There Will Be Blood. This movie stars Leonardo DiCaprio and Sean Penn,

and is being called an American masterpiece. So when I Google this movie, because I had seen some rumblings about it, I got the headline, DeCaprio channels Lobowski for one battle after another from the Boston Herald. and say no more, I'm in. And then the headline right below it was from CNET saying, one battle after another, probably the best movie experience I've had all year. So those are two very different publications agreeing that this is a great movie. So I will be seated. Today in the Northern Hemisphere is the first day of fall or the autumn equinox, if you're fancy. It's a rare day when day and night share equal time. Toby, favorite thing about fall?

My favorite thing about fall is the fact that we're on our way to summer again in three more seasons. I'm a little bit of a summer truther. I'm not necessarily falling for the fall propaganda. Fall is overrated. Too many sweaters. I never know when to wash them. When does a sweater go from clean to dirty? I end up not washing them all year. I'm like, I got to wash these things. So me versus sweaters versus fall battle of the century. Someone can just help Toby figure out when he washes his sweaters. Turns out that whole like fall just like the rest of us. And finally, the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, begins tonight, which means I'm going to be out for the next two days. Our backup quarterback.

Kyle is going to fill in and crush it like Carson Wentz. Neil, we'll miss you, as always, excited for you to get some time off. But also, Kyle's gone through so many iterations. First, he was six men in the year. Now he's a backup quarterback. What if he's just a great co-host? Well, he certainly is that, but also he's from Minnesota, huge Vikings fans. So little Carson Wentz parallel, I know he's going to even outplay, uh, wents.

That is all the time we have. Thanks so much for starting your morning with us. Have a wonderful Monday, and I will see you back here on Thursday. And also don't forget to head to the link in the show description to sign up for our holiday party. Use code Let's Ride and we will see you all there. And if you have any feedback on today's episode, send a note to Morning Brew Daily at MorningBrew.com. Let's roll the credits. Emily Milliron is our executive producer.

Raymond Loo is our producer. Our associate producers are Olivia Graham and Olivia Lake. Hair and makeup is pumped for soup season. Devin Emery is our president and our show is a production of Morning Brew. Great. Show today, Neil. Let's run it back tomorrow.