Morning Brew Daily - Ex-NFL Star Donovan McNabb Talks the Big Business of Thanksgiving Football

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

Episode 198: Former NFL quarterback Donovan McNabb joins Neal and Kyle to discuss why Thanksgiving is such a significant day for football. Donovan reflects on what it was like to play on the holiday as well as his iconic Campbell's Chunky Soup brand deal featuring his mom. Watch out Kelces! He also shares his thoughts on current players building out their own brands with podcasts, and what the international expansion of the National Football League could look like. And how well does he know his own stats? Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Listen to Morning Brew Daily Here: https://link.chtbl.com/MBD Watch Morning Brew Daily Here: https://www.youtube.com/@MorningBrewDailyShow The 2024 Money with Katie Wealth Planner launches on Black Friday. Sign up on the waitlist now to get a discount at launch: moneywithkatie.com/wealthplanner Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And I'm Kyle Hagey. On today's pod, a special Thanksgiving episode with former NFL star Donovan McNabb. If you're a football fan, you know who this guy is. He's a legendary quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles, a six-time pro bowler and franchise leader in passing yards, passing touchdowns, and a bunch of other categories. And if you're not a football fan, that's okay, because you also probably know Donovan from his iconic, chunky Campbell's Soup ads that he starred in alongside his mom. one of the best athlete and brand collaborations of all time. Since there's nothing more linked to Thanksgiving than football, we brought on Donovan to chat about the state of the league,

the leadership lessons he took from playing quarterback, and what he thinks about Patrick Mahomes wearing the same pair of underwear for every single game. It's Thursday, Thanksgiving Day, November 23rd, let's ride. Donovan, thank you so much for joining us. Let me just say, as a 13-year-olds, playing Madden 2006 with you on the, cover, this is a dream come true to be speaking to you. This is so awesome. So happy Thanksgiving

and we'll get right into it with a very hard hitting question up top, which is what is your Thanksgiving family tradition? Well, first of all, you made me feel super old by saying when you were 13. My Thanksgiving tradition is pretty much just family coming together. I mean, you've got to have turkey. We got to have dressing. I don't know, got to have candy yams and macaroni and cheese. You have to have cranberry sauce. You have to have ham, which it could be, it could be smoke, you know, whatever. But, you know, we have a variety of things. But the whole thing for me is just making sure that we have to have greens, macaroni and cheese, and dressing. That's the main of side pieces that I need, but then the desserts. You've got to have

lemon cake, carrot cake, and sweet potato pop. The food at the Big Nab household sounds, Amazing. You take Thanksgiving seriously. Oh, no. Listen, first of all, it's my birthday. It's around my birthday. I'm a Thanksgiving baby. So I take pride in not only the gifts, the family camaraderie and the family fun, and the eating.

Yes, we work out extra hard so that we can eat too much. That's what Thanksgiving is about. Did you ever play? I don't remember. I'm a big Eagles fan. I don't remember if you played on Thanksgiving, but if you did, what was that like? Did you feel like a burden to play? Because obviously you're someone who takes Thanksgiving very seriously and you're getting away from the dressing playing on Thanksgiving.

But was that exciting or special for you? It was special. It was, I believe we played the Arizona Cardinals at that particular time on Thanksgiving. My first Thanksgiving game and only really Thanksgiving Day game, we were coming off of a loss to Baltimore. We still celebrated Thanksgiving. We did it as a team two days before. And then as a family, we did it after the game. So it was a lot of fun because you watch, as a football player, you watch it all the time.

You're watching Detroit play, watching the Bears, watching the Cowboys. You know, Indianapolis got involved while I was in the league. So those were, I think, a ritual that a lot of people kind of on Thanksgiving, you watch football after you eat before you pass out. But, you know, it's just an enjoyable time. And when I had an opportunity to play, and me living in Arizona now being here for 20 years, It was kind of a game that I was bragging rights. So I was looking forward to beating up on Larry Fitzgerald and Anquine Bowden, those guys.

So in the summer, I come back out here to train. I had some fuel to the fire to throw a little trash talk. Can I issue a correction? I was at that game. What? Yes. This is breaking news on the podcast. Don't put your age.

Don't say your age. I'm not going to say my age. I'm older than Kyle. I'm pretty old. I was at that game. It was a night game. We absolutely thrashed them. Four TDs from this guy right here.

It was an excellent game. My only Thanksgiving Day game that I went to was at we eight in South Jersey, went over to the game. I love this. Super fun. Well, you definitely got breaking rights, Donovan. I want to ask you now about podcasts, not just because we're on one, but there is this growing trend of athletes kind of sidestepping the media and just making their own

podcast, making their own content. I'm thinking like Travis Kelsey, the Kelsey brothers, even in the NBA, Draymond Green. What do you think about this trend of players kind of creating their own? media brands. And if you were playing back in the day, like, would you have had your own podcast knowing what you know now? I do have my podcast now. The Five Spot on Outkick, make sure you tune in. We're streaming on YouTube and Spotify. But I love the concept of for the podcast because you create your own content. And you can pretty much just let loose and say whatever it is that you want to say. If there's topics that have been bothering you, yeah, let's talk about it. If there's

gossip that's going on that needs to be expressed by feeling like by you, let's talk about it. Yeah. So there's no, there's structure, but then there's not the, well, you can't say that. Oh, oh, the real sensitive type of stuff, where you be on air, on TV, and it's kind of like you've got 30 seconds to talk and you don't really get a chance to really hit your hard hitting points. Right. Because, you know, you got three or four other people that need to add their input and then everyone's sensitive of what you may say. But now on your podcast, you can pretty much let loose and hit a different things that you feel that needs to be talked about and that the listeners and viewers want to kind of see it here. So I think that's something that's kind of been an idea for a lot of people.

Remember, podcast wasn't that big about two years ago. Right. People were talking about it. And then it became a thing where, you know, you have former players or you have businessmen or whatever. You can create your own podcast where you're talking for between 35, 45 minutes of three, maybe two, three, four topics that you feel like you can hit. And it's like, boom, oh, wait, I got 100,000 or 150 people watching. And so I just think it's something that's enjoyable.

What I have done it during my career, I think from a business standpoint, remember, at my career at that point, you got to have sponsorships, you got to have people that follow. And there was no social media while I was playing, like dating myself. But there was no Twitter. There was no Instagram. I think we might have MySpace back when, when I was playing.

Like Google was coming in. Like, you know what I mean? It was different things like that where you do your podcast, you might have 20 people watching and 15 of it as your family members. Can you imagine if there was Twitter during that 2005 team? No. No. We don't need to go there.

Donovan, you talked about sponsorships. And I think it's a perfect segue into something we wanted to ask you about, which is these iconic Campbell's Chunky Soup ads with you and your mom. I think I still remember these ads and they seem to be such an awesome collaboration between athlete and brands, athletes, family and brand. How did that come to be and how did your mom get involved in these ads? Well, you know, it's funny. We had a Campbell's base in South Jersey, so right across the bridge from Philly.

So, you know, when it was brought out, I think at that particular time, Terell Davis was in it, I don't know if there was another player before. before TD or right after. But it was brought to us being in Philadelphia. And the first couple episodes that I did, there was an actress that was doing my mom's part. My mom was there in studio with us. And she was getting upset and pissed. And I was like, what's wrong?

She's just like, I can do this. And I go, oh, God. Like here, you know, and you can't say no to mom. It's kind of like, okay, mom. And she's like reciting all the lines that the mom was doing it. And I'm just like, oh, well, okay, we knocked out, I think, three, four commercials and, you know, I brought it to my marketing guy. We brought it to them. And they thought it was a creative idea. And it was like, you know,

that's something we never really thought about. They figured most moms wouldn't want to be on camera. Like, you know what I mean? And at that time, a lot of moms kind of shy away from the attention, the lights and all of, you know, we weren't about that. Obviously, things have changed with moms now. I was like, hey, look at me. Like, and my mom brought it to him and she did the lines and they loved it. And so we are the pioneers that changed the game with Campbell's. And I put the challenge out there to put old school versus new school with me and my mom versus the Kelsey's in their mind, the old school throwback. I say we bring it out. I mean, I know she's got two in the league and my mom only had weight me. Well, you know, my career was good. But let's let's bring the old

cans when they were a little cheaper. The old cans and what we did compared to, you know, the Kelsey's. That would be hot right there. We'll get a lot of people following. I'm hearing a billion dollar idea right now on this podcast. That is such a good idea. So a so a Campbell's Soup campaign that pits Donna McNabb and his mom against the Kelsey's and their mom. Let's make it happen. Nobody does it better than chunky. You still got it. Does a tweet from Taylor Swift change the equation? Oh, that is. They have a wild card on their side. You brought this out. No, they don't. No, they don't. No, they don't. Yeah. You can't use You can't use the swifties in this regard.

Let's go to some topics concerning the current NFL, state of the NFL. So Aaron Rogers goes down in his first drive as a New York jet earlier this year on a turf field at MetLife Stadium. And an intense debate springs up about turf versus grass fields. Do you think all stadiums should be converted to grass? And do you think that the risk of injury is heightened on an artificial turf field versus a grass field? I mean, there were injuries on natural grass. And remember, I went to Syracuse University where we played on turf. And so me being born and raised in Chicago, playing high school football in Chicago, where we played on natural grass.

Coming to Syracuse, we practiced on grass, practice on turf. We played on turf. So when I was drafted to Philadelphia, they have turf. And so I think the injuries are going to happen, not saying that does turf add to it? Turf does wear and tear on your ankles and your knees and hips. But so does natural grass a little bit. So I think what people need to understand is the pounding aspect from football is, you know, your body takes a hit and you got to be able to take care of your body. That's why you're seeing a lot of these guys paying so much attention now to chiropractors, acupuncture, scraping, flexibility, recovery with cold tubs or cryotherapy, whatever may be, because you have to be able to do that.

But the NFL, I think, in this regard, people are talking about maybe they should just all go to natural grass. Well, it's great. But then you have some domes that you won't be able to put natural grass. to. Now, the Arizona Cardinals have it where the tray comes out and allow the sun to hit where, you know, but it's still slippery. We've seen that in the Super Bowl. The Super Bowl had all the paintings and all that other stuff on there and guys were slipping. They were trying to figure out what shoes to wear. So there's going to be problems no matter what. The tough part, yes, is that we've suffered injuries from quarterbacks. I believe there's six quarterbacks

that are out for the season, six or seven quarterbacks that are out for the season. And that's not That's not counting other skill position players due to injuries with ACLs or broken ankles or shoulders or whatever may be. And you played your first couple seasons at Veterans Stadium, which is not exactly known for its beautiful. I was about to say, I don't know if that's officially turf. That might have been painted cement. It was a little tough to watch there as well. Let's talk about the NFL's international expansion. They've had three games in London.

They've just played two games in Germany, two packed houses. do you ever see a scenario in which the NFL puts a game or a team in London? That's a far ride. You know, I don't know if families would kind of be down for that, nor, you know, guys kind of going back and forth. I mean, because what division would they be in? What conference would they be in? Because those are long flights for them.

I say we're booth the commanders. Booth the commanders put London in the NFC's. That's messed up. So you pretty much go have Dallas flying, you know, have Philly flying. I just think having the game there brings much more excitement to them because they know those teams that are coming. I think they're doing it now where some team stays two weeks. And so now they play two games there.

So at least they get somewhat of a full season out there, but it's not the same team. So it makes it exciting for them. They get the same team. And all of a sudden, they do get the commanders in there. They're not good. Then it's like, oh, team sucks. And, you know, it's a bad feeling. But I just think the excitement of, hey, we got a game in London or, you know what I mean?

We have a game here. And it's like, ah, well, we got to pack up for the week. And it makes it exciting for the players. The players get away. I think families fly in, maybe Thursday or Friday, so they get a chance to, you know, team bond and have a good time out there for a little bit. And then they play the game and come home. And they probably have a buy week after because of the long flight.

So at least it gives you something to kind of play for them. All right. We'll be back with Donovan McNabb after this break. It's time to refresh your yard during spring backyard days at the Home Depot. Get low prices guaranteed on propane grills starting at $179,

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Exclusion supplies to homedipo.com slash price match for details. I want to move from London into leadership here quick. Obviously, you were quarterback, which I think many people just consider the de facto leader of the team. You're calling the plays, you're touching the ball, pretty much every play. You're the centerpiece of the offense. What do you think was the hardest leadership lesson you learned through being a quarterback all those years? Well, you have to adjust to different personalities. There are a lot of different personalities in the locker room.

And some are sensitive, some try to add the tough guy role, which you're not. Some try to be the smart guy in the room. You know, then you have the hard worker. You have the one who doesn't work and don't understand about work ethic. So you have to be able to cater to different players. And that's what leadership is about. It's not the rah-rah guy. I was never the rah-rah guy.

I hated ra-rah guys. I wasn't that guy, you know, the false clapper. You know, come on, guys. No, I was by example. And, you know, if it's me showing up earlier to get a workout before, meeting, staying after to watch film, being with somebody offensive linemen and watch film, grab dinner and go back up, whatever may be. I was more by example and then just try to be the motivator. And so from a leadership standpoint, and it's not just in sports, but it's in the business world as well. The ones that follow the leaders are the true ones who put that time in and have that passion and can get people who, I guess, others least expect.

them to elevate or want to elevate, if you can get them to follow and understand the end goal and what it can do not only for the group and the family, the team, but for themselves, then now that people start to understand that and people begin to follow. Now you see people trickling in, hey, what's going on? What are you guys doing? Hey, could I join you? Or, you know, now they start to do different things, which those are the ones who try to stay to themselves, but they're watching every move that you make.

So now they don't want to act like they're following you as a leader. And then they're trying to be the leader to bring others around them. And then before you know it, everybody's together. So that's what it's all about. That's the leadership role. Not the one that's vocal and being loud and demonstrative for no reason. It's the guy that's quiet that continues to work. And all of a sudden you see people start trickling in with them.

I love that perspective. And it's so interesting to me, obviously you've had a career in media and business and in NFL. is there a difference between like juggling locker room egos and other players in a football environment versus like a normal quote unquote workplace because they seem very different but at the end of the day your teammates are also just your colleagues as well well the difference is the fact that you're in almost a closed environment for 90% of the time now when you get out on the football field everything that you've learned and you've done together in that confines that now kind of is the result out on the field. In the workforce, everyone is kind of in different areas. You know what I mean?

It's just like you got one guy who may have to travel for work. He may be in California. Another guy may be in Florida. Then all of a sudden, you meet twice, two times every three weeks or so. But you're talking on the phone. Phone conversations are a lot different than in person. Because in person, I can look at you in the eye while we're talking and see if you're really giving me the right the real deal or you just got a beating around the bush. When you're on the phone, you can talk about anything. And then all of a sudden, you're going to look at you. and you get back together and people like, okay, let's get your work out on the table, let's discuss it.

It's like, uh, well, I forgot my work, you know, and that type of deal. So the difference in it all is I'm more in person type of guy. I like to express what I'm feeling with somebody sitting right there. So they understand exactly how I feel and I want to get their response more than the emails or the text or anything like that. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. Speaking of leadership, uh, the commissioner of the NFL, Roger Goodell just signed a three year extension worth more than $200 million.

We can debate whether that is deserved or not. Fans don't think he's the greatest guy on Earth. But our question is, let's say you were hired as the commissioner of the league. What would be the first change you implement? Well, they've made so many that is kind of to me softened the game a bit. I think, you know, moving back the kickoff to get kickoff returns back would be one. I think some of these calls on quarterbacks hitting low or all of a sudden now you bring your body weight down on them.

It's a penalty. We're softening the game. We're making it creating almost like seven on seven now instead of back to the hard nose football. Now, some hits, of course, you have to call the penalty on with the helmet to helmet. I believe in that. But, you know, I just think for the way the game has been played, it's rule changes almost each and every year or two. That, to me, has kind of condensed the game.

And so now I believe what the mentality is when they haven't said it, it's trying to draw up points. So they're trying to draw 40, 50 points a game where the fans are getting excited and get enamored. But then defenses are taking a hit. It's almost like people are playing PlayStation. You know, you plan, it's just like you're scoring. It's like the game's like 49, 49, 40, or something like that. You know what I mean? Where you're just like, man, did you play defense at all?

But that's just the way the game has gotten to the point where it becomes soft. But from a business standpoint, they're trying to do whatever it takes to generate more money. And so the sponsorships, the people that are following, that's why they're playing over across the water. That's why these games now being televised because the TV deals are coming out. So many games. Remember the money night change where you get a money night on the East Coast and then a money night on the West Coast because it becomes more about the money. So that's why they added more games and less preseason games. And before you know it probably the next five to 10 years, there'll be 20 games in a season, which again, it's not about the

players and they're wear and tear on their body, it's about money. Let's quickly jump to college football, which is it washed in money right now. It kind of feels like it's at an inflection point with the Big Ten and the SEC becoming mega conferences. Athletes are now signing endorsement deals, coaches getting bought out for $77 million at Texas A&M, signed skilling scandals. So where does this end? You know, how do you see this shaking out ultimately?

It doesn't feel like the status quo is stable given the amount of money that's pouring in and athletes not being able to see any of that? Well, the college football is going to be, it's going to be five power conferences, the same thing that we've been talking about over the last 10 years. And, you know, everyone, remember, everyone got mad at the Bow's selection

because it was ran by a computer, the BCS deal. And then all of a sudden, now they got a board. And then it goes to just only having a small amount of teams in the playoffs to now they're expanding it, to, you know, teams are realigning now. So you got West Coast teams going to the Big Ten

in the Midwest. to teams that are out east that are going down south, teams that are trying to leave the ACC and trying to go into SEC. So to me, it's becoming almost a cluster to the point where is it really about competition or is it about the endgame and that being money? And so it's no more about the competitive drive

of trying to win championships. It's about teams and universities that are trying to elevate themselves to be on that level with other universities to bring more money in. And so I just think for where we are, the whole NIL deal and all that, it's going to become semi-pro in basketball, football.

You can't even really say baseball because they're almost like that, but now that you start to add the sponsorship into that, it's going to take a hit for them because you're going to have kids that are play one year, one school, another year, another, boom, go pro. And so the sports that take the hit are women's basketball, soccer, lacrosse, you know, some of the Olympic sports that we see, they're going to take the hit because, I mean, where do you go

after this? What's your end game? Because most of these end games for these players are trying to go pro. But if you're already getting paid to $2,3 million, you almost take a pay cut when you get drafted. Or if you don't get drafted and you're a free agent, you made more money in college than you you've done in your first three years in the league. Yeah, it's a very interesting evolving landscape. It's interesting to hear from your perspective, having obviously gone through so much in football to hear how it plays out. I want to talk about. superstitions now Donovan. So I think a lot of athletes have

superstitions, Kansas City Chiefs quarterback, Patrick Mahomes, recently said that he has worn the same pair of underwear. Yeah, that's kind of nasty. That was my first question. It was going to be disgusting or genius. That's something like defensive players, like de-tackles,

linebackers. When I heard that, I was like, that's, and that visual just like, what? That's nasty. Like, I hope you might throw a little powder or get you a little, you know, get a little, get some pods in there. Watch that up a little bit.

Right. But superstitions that I had, I had a pothole by my house that I always felt like I had to go over. And it wasn't for practice. It was more for games. So I would hit the pothole. But when I didn't hit the potho, I would turn around it and go back around and hit that pothole. Heading to the game or heading to the facility to fly out to a game. You know, do I eat something before games?

I mean, we pretty much had somewhat of the same things for breakfast. or a pre-game meal. So I guess you can count that. But that's about it. I know some guys, some guys, you know, I don't know about the clothing because, you know,

it was always about fashion for us growing up. I don't know what the heck these kids are wearing out. You know, you're on a Monday night game. You got throw your money night suit on. You got a sunny night game.

You're going to look dressed to the tea. If it's just a one o'clock game, it's kind of like, okay, I'm going to get a sport coat on, you know, maybe some jeans and some fresh shoes on. Now these dudes, I mean, it's got to have a, a tag. Like if you ain't got a tag, if it ain't Gucci, Louis Vuitton, you ain't got the bag. Like these, they're doing way too much. They're going to be broke by the first seven,

eight years in the league because they're so worried about trying to keep up with the Joneses in the first three, four years. Right. Mahomes is keeping it pretty discount over there. I mean, he's just reusing the same. You're saving money. Same garment for. Mahone? Yeah. I mean, that bit, no, that visual. We're sorry for putting the visual in your mind out of them. So we want to wrap up here with an actual A Trivia segment that we're calling Donovan McNabb trivia with Donovan McNabb. So what we've done is we've found five fun facts from your career.

We're going to throw them back at you and see if you can correctly identify them. Are you down to play? All right, let's do it. All right. So as a freshman at Syracuse, you completed the longest touchdown pass in school history against West Virginia. How many yards was that pass? 96.

Bingo. 96 yards. Spot on. You're one for one. All right. Question number two. So people might not know this, but you actually walked on to the basketball team at Syracuse as well. You were a two-sport athlete.

Do you know how many points you scored in your highest scoring game in college basketball? Ten points. Ten points against Georgetown, the rival. Well done. Yeah. Yeah. We're rolling. Ten.

Six rebounds, four assists and a block. Yeah, a big time block. I remember reading that. I were going to say, I remember watching. watching that. And I was like, I don't know if you watched that game. All right, we're two for two, and we got some extra padding of the score sheet there. What is the most passing yards you've had in one game in your NFL career? Four, four, I'll say four, 40? Close. Four hundred and sixty four. That was against the Packers in 2004. Green Bay. Green Bay, yeah. Yeah. Was that Sunday night or Monday night? I don't have that information. Yeah. It was hoping. I was hoping you remember. It feels like a Monday. Feels like a Monday night. Yeah, it was a night game.

Either way, 464 is no joke. That is very, very impressive. Donovan, you played in the 2005 Super Bowl against the New England Patriots. Can you tell us who performed at the halftime show for that Super Bowl? Ah, was it Black Eye P's? No, it was Paul McCartney.

It was Paul McCartney. Oh, okay, okay. You were focused on the game. The president was in my way in warm-ups. No way. But yeah, I was warming up I think it might have been, I don't know if it was Bill Clinton and, I don't know, I don't know, it was two presidents that walked out or like right behind me as I'm dropping back.

And I'm like, get the heck out the way. Like, you know what I mean? I'm out here trying to get warmed up. Like, no, but yeah, I thought Paul McCartney, wow, that's great. Yeah. I can't imagine how you focus on football during that game. Well, we were in the locker room. Yeah.

We were in the locker room, so we didn't see it. That's why I was kind of crazy. I don't know. I remember Blackout P's, but I don't know what Super Bowl that was. That was, Black Eyed P's are considered probably one of the worst Super Bowl halftime performances in the last 20 years. What, you did like Fergie when she sang the national anthem at the NBA all for you? It was better than when Flava Flav just did one at the Bucks game.

Right. Exactly. That was interesting. Flavent. All right. Final question. I think we're two for four now. So this is to get over 50%.

This is huge. You are tied with Warren Moon as the QBs who have been sack the most in the same. single game. Yours took place against the Giants in 2007. Do you remember how many times you were sacked that game? Was it 11? 12. I know OC, O.C had like six or seven. I was going to, I went through the stats and there were four giants that sacked you that game. I don't know if you can name it. Right. O.C. I don't think, I don't think Mike, was Mike, Strayham was in there? Would Mike have three? Will Mike have two or three? I don't know how many. I just have the names. Yeah. Okay, Mike, was it was it linebacker?

I think a linebacker, too. Kiwanuka. Yeah, man, I can't, I couldn't tell you the detackle that got one or two. Justin Tuck. Yeah. That was a scary defense. Very scary. No, I was. It wasn't that bad. We were that bad. We were missing,

we were missing our left tackle. And so we had a young, a young guy stepping in, first time starting, first time, like, playing major role. And so they went after him. And plus, I was coming off of ACL injury, so I had the knee brace on and couldn't run past anybody. How did your body feel the next day?

You know what? I can take hits. It wasn't that bad. I just, I hated the fact that I had no mobility, the mobility that I'm used to. So I could have got away from some of it if I did, but, you know, that's sorry, we got them back later. Yes, we did. Yes, sir. If I got sacked once, I would be out for career.

I'll tell you that much. Especially from OCU and Yura. Jesus. I don't want any of that. All right, before we go, we got to get your Super Bowl pick for this year. Philadelphia, Baltimore. Those are what I go with right now. And Philly wins the championship. That's right. You heard it here first.

I love it. All right. Thanks, Donovan. That's all the time we have. Really appreciate your time. We talked about a lot of topics. It's been super interesting. Hope everyone listens to this and then has an amazing Thanksgiving with, you can just borrow the McNabb recipe and I think you'll be set. That's it. Make sure you get your sides already. Don't overcook the meat. Don't overcook the meat. It's going to be dry anyway. I don't know how to make turkey that's not dry. Hey, smoke it.

True. You got to take a lot of time. I should have put a in a smoker already. Smoking or deep fried. Yeah, deep fried. But be careful. Don't burn your house down. I will try.

All right, hope everyone enjoys watching football today. Thanks again, Donovan. It's been great to chat. Thanks a lot. Thanks, David. I really appreciate it again. All right now. Own it all.

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