Morning Brew Daily - The Points Guy: Airlines Make More Money Selling Miles Than Flying Planes

Episode Date: July 2, 2026

#880: Neal and Toby chat with The Points Guy (real name: Brian Kelly) about the latest trends in travel, points, and the airline industry. We learn about how Brian created The Points Guy and what he��s learned over the years, and why travel points aren’t dying – they’re evolving. Then why Spirit Airlines ultimately failed and how airlines make more money through their loyalty program vs. airfares. Finally, tourists aren’t really to blame for overtourism…is it the government’s?? Get 10% off using MORNINGBREW10 at altrarunning.com/morningbrew Grab tickets to our Performance Revue show! https://www.morningbrew.com/events/brew-performance-revue-2026?utm_campaign=performance_revue_2026&utm_source=mbd Subscribe to Morning Brew Daily for more of the news you need to start your day. Share the show with a friend, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app. Listen to Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.swap.fm/l/mbd-note⁠⁠⁠  Watch Morning Brew Daily Here:⁠ ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@MorningBrewDailyShow⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When demand slowed for Hydrojug, Amazon Ads Rising Star Hayden Wadsworth pivoted. When our bank account hit near zero, my brother Jake and I had one last shot to save Hydrojug. So we engineered The Traveler, a leakproof, cupholder-friendly Tumblr. Amazon Ads enables a business to be able to expand their product shelf because of the visibility and the reach you can get. Each week, our new-to-brand customers make up about 95% of all of our sales. Watch Hydrojug's story at advertising.amazon.com slash rising dash stars. We're living in the platinum age of travel is like all about loyalty. Loyalty is what these airlines make more money, the big airlines make more money,

selling miles to credit cards and they do flying airplanes. I want everyone to let that sink in. The airlines make more money from their loyalty programs. Good morning for Daily show. I'm Neil Freyman. And I'm Toby Howell. Today we're talking points, credit cards, and travel with the points guy. You're going to want to hold off on booking that August vacation until you listen to this.

It's Thursday. July 2nd, let's ride. Good morning. No standard news show today since the office is closed ahead of July 4th, but we may have something even more useful for you, an interview with The Points Guy. Brian Kelly, aka The Points Guy, reinvented the conversation around credit cards, helping millions of people save money and travel smarter by accruing points. So we talked to Brian about points because that's interesting as heck, but also about the latest in the travel industry because this guy is,

pretty much always on an airplane or in a hotel. We also got into a philosophical debate about what being a window or an aisle person says about your character and whether you should dress up when going to the airport. It is a fun conversation, but first, a word from our sponsor, Ultra Running. As some of you may know, I'm running the New York City Marathon this year. Copycat. What was that? Oh, nothing.

You just want to be me so bad. I mean, I run the marathon. Now, you're running the marathon. Everybody sees it. Anyway, for anyone else joining me, check out Ultra. They actually make shoes shaped like feet. What a concept. Most running shoes are narrow at the toe,

but Ultra has more room for your toes so they can spread out and your feet can stay in a natural position. The Ultra Fit is designed to give you room for your toes for comfort, balance, and strength, and no one's copying them. Use promo code Morning Brew 10 for 10% off your first pair of Ultra running shoes at ultra running.com slash morning brew. That's a L-T-R-A-R-A-R-A-R-Running.com slash morning brew. Now here's the points guy. Brian, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me.

All right. First question, how did you become the points guy? Well, it started in 2010. I was working at Morgan Stanley. I was there. 2007, I got a job there doing recruiting. So I was in college recruiting for technology. Of course, it was like six months after I started the bottom blew out of the entire financial industry. And so I spent years working there. I actually was getting promoted, but if you're in HR during the Great Recession, like, you're nobody. And I think I remember my managing director would look at me and laugh and be like,

your bonus this year is not getting laid off. Come back again next year. So, you know, I'm in my 20s, New York City, just trying to get ahead. I've always been really good at points. I started doing it with my dad in the 90s. So really, before the points guy, I was the points kid. he was a road warrior. I figured out when I was 12 how to use his points.

So that's like the shortened version of I had been doing points in the 90s, figured out in college when I was student body president traveling that there was like this whole underworld of travelers. So pre-reddit, there's a, it's still around called Flyer Talk. So I discovered Flyer Talk in 2004 and like, holy crap, this stuff that I've been doing with my dad, there's like people around the world that do this. So I was into the points game.

Then I get a job at Morgan Stanley where I'm traveling nonstop. And mind you 2008, 2009, even though it was a crisis, this is when Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, they are competing for top tech talent. So even at Morgan Stanley, like, my job was to convince the top grads. And so they basically gave me a corporate Amex with no limit and was like, do whatever you need to do. So not only am I traveling, I'm spending tons of money on my corporate Amex, learn that I could pay $100 a year to get those points. So I was like, you know, broke, but points rich.

And I was traveling the world jet setting. And finally in 2010, after another year of like, you know, no increase in wages or whatever, I started the points guys like a side hustle. So it was not a blog at first. It was just a, I was a travel agent for points. I charge you. I was helping people all the time, book trips and save them thousands of dollars. My friends were like, you should charge people.

So I started just charging people, 50 bucks a ticket, you know, come home from work, do my little travel agent thing. It was like a couple hundred bucks or a thousand bucks, which was helpful. I started blogging. A friend of mine was like, this is 2010. He's like, you have to blog. He was like foaming at the mouth. He was an SEO expert, which at the time I had no idea what that meant. And it was like 2011 is when I kind of stumbled into affiliate marketing and that changed my life in overnight. How was the concept of points changed from when you started in the 90s in 2000s till now? Was there like an inflection point? Was it, was it like the Chase Reserve that card that had this crazy intro bonus that everyone seemed to jump on.

Well, it's funny. I joke that we're currently in, you know, the golden age of travel was the 60s and 70s, the age of jet travel. I joke that we're actually starting from 2010 onward, there was this huge shift. You know, pre-2010, Chase launched her Sapphire preferred in 2009 very quietly. And actually promoting the preferred, which is, you know, the $95 a year card, that was actually one of the ways that I was able to leave Wall Street because no one knew about the preferred. Chase had poached a ton of Amex, and Chase came up with this, hey, let's go head to head with Amex. Amex for many years was the ruler of all things like, you know, premium credit card, transferable points. So talk about being right time, right place. Here I am as blogging as a form

of influence really starts to arise. The points guy, my main audience was, you know, consultants, you know, millennial consultants who were traveling and spending big and were future higher earners, right? And that's what the banks wanted to get in front of. To answer your question, it's funny because at every point in time, every year, there's always so many people saying points are dead. In 2010, when I started the points guy, which as we have foresight now to look back, things were actually really great, but people called it dead, blackout dates, you know, you can't use points anymore, all these cry babies. And when I started the points guy, I finally was like, okay, all these moronic travel experts who don't even know points going on Good Morning America

saying points are dead. It's all blackout dates. It was actually the heyday, but people just needed to learn how to let, you know, and the airline websites, I mean, in 2026, they're still broken. In 2010, you couldn't really book a ward. So it was complicated, but there has always been opportunity for those who decide to spend a little bit of time and learn the system. And that is the same today. Today, I would argue that it's the platinum age, even better, because you can now earn

points on rent, mortgage, all of these crazy categories that we could only dream about. in 2010. So the industry is evolving. At the same time, there's inflation happening. So if you just look at one piece of the points puzzle, you might say, oh, flights today are just so much more expensive. It's not worth it. But that's not the case. You just need to work a little bit harder. If you could go back in 2010, like right when you first pressed published on your first blog, what would surprise you the most about what the industry has turned into in the ensuing years? I mean, there's just incredible competition. I mean, the fact that today, we've got Chase as a behemoth, you know, and, you know, the Sapphire preferred help launch the Points Guy.

And in 2016, because I had been working with Chase for years as a trusted partner, the Points Guy was the exclusive launch partner for the Sapphire. I knew about that product months in advance, and we worked with them to make that viral. It ran out of metal. It's a Harvard business, you know, case study today. Wait, wait, wait. I can't believe I never got that car. No, no, I want to hear about this.

They ran out of metal story. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It was so popular. I knew, you know, Chase, the Sapphire Reserve blew up the industry in that how lucrative it was. Triple points on travel and dining when it launched in 2016, 100,000 point bonus. Chase points were really valuable. You know, one-to-one transfers to Hyatt, to United, to all these really rich partners. And so many people got the card that Chase ran out of metal. So there was a population of people that were getting a plastic card. And part of it's called in the industry, the plunk factor. Yeah. You know, now we all use our digital payments, but in 2016, if you got your hands on the sapphire card, at that point, platinum, they also switched to metal after everyone else was getting into metal, but the sapphire card, it was the cool card to get, triple points on dining.

I mean, it was the cultural moment. So there was a small portion of people that got the plastic card and they were livid. Low plunk ability, yeah. The plunk factor. So short answer is I would be shocked at just how many options. are today. And it is still a bonanza for consumer. So if you're listening to this, do not think the points game is over. It is just evolving. Yeah. So fast forward to today, we have Amex and Chase in a full out arms race. They're charging nearly. Capital one, you know, capital one. Capital one, you know,

in 2019, they started doing transfer partners, you know, built and cardless, built has built up a huge and full of disclosure. I'm a built advisor investor from the beginning. But built has completely opened up a new market. We also have, I mean, Wells Fargo is still in the game. City, city launched a premier card, the Strata elite. So, I mean, there is a bonanza and no, you know, if you play your cards right, you know, you can get crazy bonuses on every aspect of your life, including, you know, rent and mortgage, which to me, I never thought there'd be a day where there would be a credit card where you can earn on runner mortgage without paying that fee. We're seeing, speaking of fees, we're seeing annual fees reach almost $1,000 for these premium credit cards.

Do you think there's going to be an upper limit to what people are willing to pay and then go back through what they call the coupon book to figure out how they can actually see those rewards? You know, I don't have inside numbers from the Amex's and Chase, but if we look at their, you know, public quarterly reports, they seem to be doing quite well. And my sense is that even though the increases in annual fees, people are paying them. I mean, I see it in the lounges. there's lines outside those lounges. There's no shortage of people paying. I do think what they're dealing with now is trying to call it a little bit. You know, it has gotten harder.

You can't take guests in like you used to be able to just because they need to manage. They can't just continue to make, you can't create more real estate in an airport. So I think the market, let the market will market. People, I know some people who are getting rid of one of those cards. And I say to people, you should. You should always be taking stock of like how much value you're getting. But I would argue most of these cards, it is not that hard to get the annual feedback, especially if you go to the lounge a couple times a year. And what I have to encourage people, too, it's not just the points you're earning, but it's also on those premium cards, the customer service.

When anything goes wrong, you know, the Sapphire Reserve card, if you have a six-hour delay, you get $500 a person, go get a hotel room or if it's an overnight delay. You don't have to beg for the, you know, Motel 6 or whatever. you know, from the airline agent, your credit card has all these crazy perks and built in. So, you know, I still don't, just because the fees are going up, it doesn't mean that most people can't easily get the value back, especially when you consider there's 100,000 plus bonuses on these cards that even if you did nothing would pay for the annual fee for several years. And mind you, like, this only exists in America. We are in the greatest land of all for credit cards.

And I want people, I think sometimes people forget how good we have it. any of your friends around the world, there is no more lucrative credit card ecosystem than the U.S. Basically, if you're not using a credit card and earning points, like you're helping fund it for everyone else. So get off your ass and get in on the game. We have a couple questions about the airline industry, which you are familiar with. Did Southwest deserve all that criticism for starting to charge for bags and ditching their open seating? Well, look, I think any customer can voice their concerns, but I mean, their results are rock star, right?

It is, you know, Southwest had free bags and they were giving away the bank. And the airline business is a tough business. Now, don't get that I'm not a fanboy of the airlines and I think they do a lot of messed up things. But when we live in a capitalistic world, airlines are owned by shareholders. Like their obligation is to their shareholders. It is, you know, people are willing to pay and people just want cheap tickets. So, you know, the airline consumer, airline economics are really interesting. while people say, no, we want full service.

No, people want cheap-ass tickets, period. Like the customers, by and large, have been, are focused on, especially on non-premium airlines. Now, for premium, premium passengers are different, right? So if you're going to actually invest in a premium product like Delta and charge a premium, but Southwest can't do that. Southwest doesn't have first class.

They don't have lounges. They're not going to be able to charge for premium. So they need to be able to charge for other things in order to compete because costs are going up. But people are really weird on the budget side, with the airfare. They're not paying this premium for Southwest. So they had to figure out a way to kind of get some revenue without being able to charge the premiums like Delta and United. Speaking of the budget side of things, what are some of the takeaways from the spirit implosion?

Yeah. I mean, it's a reminder. I, you know, we're living in the platinum age of travel. It's like all about loyalty. Loyalty is what these airlines make more money, the big airlines make more money, selling miles to credit cards and they do flying airplanes. I want everyone to let that sink in. airlines make more money from their loyalty programs. So what airlines are doing the worst in the U.S. right now? You know, Spirit had a horrible loyalty program, did not focus on premium, terrible brand, and in the end, you know, this game is not, it's expensive to fly into LaGuardia, increasing costs, increasing jet fuel. So during a crisis, all of these airlines have leaned on their loyalty program to survive. During the pandemic, Hilton, you know, even the credit card airlines all sold

billions of dollars of future miles to live. So the story is you've got to get in it on the loyalty game. JetBlue is struggling. JetBlue for years had a snooze fest of a loyalty program. Their co-brands are way behind. The customer in the U.S. is sophisticated. You can't roll out a crap loyalty program and credit card and just expect it to be what Amex has built with Delta. The Amex Delta co-brand portfolio is incredible. They pioneered. They have the highest margin. And they, you know, I've heard stats at 1% of US GDP is put on a Delta Amex card. So, but they have done that has been a decades long investment. And so the airlines and companies out there who are not investing in loyalty, you are

setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion. So we just heard you say, spirit is gone. JetBlue is struggling. So if I'm somebody who's like, I love being able to fly down to Fort Lauderdale from Boston for $70. And all these discounters are struggling mightily or going the way of the dodo. Like, where does that leave me as someone who is looking around for cheap flights around the United States? And I see United and Delta moving more into premium.

You know, where does that leave me? Yeah, I'd say there are still cheap flights to be had. When you look at it just adjusting for inflation, airfare is actually not that expensive. Even internationally, like you can easily fly to Europe for $500, you know, if you know how to search for airfare. So the first thing, you know, there's so many fake influencers now on, you know, doing TikToks like, search on a, Tuesday at midnight, all of that is BS. So that is BS, by the night? What about incognito mode? Incognito is not going to do it. What will really actually bring prices down is if you actually, you know, if you're an international traveler, if you can start your trips abroad. For example,

like if you go, if you have family in South Africa, and you go every year, Newark to Joe Berg is like $9,000 round trip. But if you go Joe Berg to Newark, round trip is like $3,800. You know, if you, and so this is what we call positioning flight. So if you can use miles to start every trip from Joeberg, you're saving like a third, right? So if you, or even in the U.S., flying New York to Paris, it's a bunch of rich people that fly that route. Bankers, lawyers that are paying full fare. Air France isn't discounting business class on a route where they were making so much money. But if you go from like Albany, connect to JFK to Paris, that flight is way cheaper because they're, they price it based on the starting city and the end city. So doing position.

flight, flying out of other airports, that's really where you're going to, you know, get great deals. But learning how to use Google flights, free tool, Google.com slash flights. This is what I tell people, let technology start searching for the deals for you. If you want to go to Europe this summer, there's still great deals to be had. But if you use one dataset like New York to Paris on July 4th, you're not going to necessarily find all the deals. So in Google, they have an explore, click the explore tab. You put in your home city, and then you just put in Europe or Caribbean. So you just want to get away to the Caribbean for a weekend.

It'll show you, you know, you can go, I want to go for a weekend in February. Show me the cheapest flights from New York to the Caribbean. I just want to go somewhere warm. It'll show you a map. And you can do nonstop, business class. And then sniff out. Sometimes Turks and Kekos I've seen is like $280 sometimes just because, right? Like go to Turks instead of Anguilla, which is $4X a price and save that money.

So and then setting alerts, even if you don't find anything good, set alerts on the routes you fly all the time. if you fly home to see family. And so be opportunistic, but use technology. I still believe in general airfare is pretty affordable, considering you can travel around the world. You know, everyday people can travel. We're going to take a quick break, but come back with more Brian Kelly right after this.

Hey, Toby, how's your duck impression? It's not all it quacked up to be. I refuse to engage with a joke, that hack. Okay, then I'll talk. Afflack pays employees claims fast, accurately and fairly, and their plans come at no direct cost to businesses. Plus, they help save employers and employees tax dollars when payroll deductions are withheld pre-tax.

That's why nearly all businesses that offer Affleck say they're likely to continue. To learn more, just head to aflac.com slash morning brew daily. That's a-f-l-A-C dot com slash morning brew daily. So Toby, after starting the workday at 5 a.m., how much energy do you have left at the end of the day to figure out dinner? Toby, wake up. I'm awake. I was just making my point here.

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Check out their menu and get 50% off by heading to forkful meal. com slash discount slash mb50 that's forkful meals.com slash discount slash mb50. Hey y'all, it's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust. Visitwayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. People are listening to this probably on an audio podcast and they don't know that the point guy is more of like a points a man and that you are six foot eight inches tall. Six seven. Six seven. I was trying to not

make the kids, you know, do the six seven. Six foot eight. I'll round up for your six seven. What is it like being a travel influencer when you're that tall? Well, you know, that's why I became the points guy because I at least needed the exit row. I physically do not fit in a normal seat. So me playing this game back, going back to college, I remember I flew to to Europe. My first study abroad trip, I didn't know any better. And I was in a normal seat. And I remember I had NyQuil, on me and I was just like chugging NyQuil. I'm like just like please make this flight and someone of course reclined into my knee and I'm like so I was like I got to figure out how to get the better seat. So originally it was just like how do I get exit rows and but funny enough you know

a lot of I don't fit in a lot of business class and this is a warning to anyone out there. So especially once you start playing the points game business class will become available to you. And once you start turning left on an airplane and once you start sitting in business. And don't get me started on first class because the international first class, like on Emirates where you can take a shower, they have unlimited caviar, unlimited DOM. Like if you fly any American carrier today, and if you're like, ooh, this is fancy, like pace yourself. Because what happens is once you start flying real, incredible airlines, you know, Japan Airlines, Singapore, it is a world that you can't unsee.

And it will become expensive to keep the hobby up. So to anyone out there, like, if you're like, hey, premium economy is good with me. I can handle it. Don't start treating yourself to business class because it will ruin. Once you start lying flat, it's over. I'm in good hands because the day we're recording this, the night before I just came back from a 10-hour flight from Greece. I was in row 40.

You turned right when you got in the flight. No, I turned as far back. I was literally in the last row of the plane. So there's no sirens call of first class for me. I can't even throw a ball up the first class. That's how far back I was. All right. Let's stay in the airport for a few more questions.

this administration has encouraged people to dress up when going to the airport or at least look presentable, are sweatpants acceptable on a plane? I think, I mean, look, be comfortable. I think the only thing I would just say is, like, I've been in Miami airport where people are in like high heels and bikinis running through the airport. Like, that's a little crazy, especially in economy. We're touching each other. So my take is, look, just be clothed, you know. Set the bar low. In general, like airlines, you might get a really hot flight, but also they're really cold too.

And so just dress for always have extra layers, you know, just cover your body in general. Don't have crazy T-shirts just trying to test the rules. Like, you know, we're on airplanes. Flight attendants are, you never know what you're going to get. So try not to push the boundaries of what's acceptable in society on a tube with other passengers. But yeah, if you want to wear sweatpants, wear sweatpants. Just, you know, I think it's, you know, just be comfortable first and foremost. If you had to spend 48 hours or maybe even longer Tom Hanks style in an airport, what airport would you choose?

Well, Singapore Airport is beautiful. I mean, there's all these different elements. They've got the jewel. They've got a rainforest. It's like, and most importantly, what I love in an airport is just efficiency. From landing at Singapore Airlines, you go through customs and immigration. You don't have to wait in line. Like, I feel so bad for people who visit America where you see those lines at JFK where it's three hours to speak to a gruff agent who's

going to scream at you. Like in other countries now, it's like efficient. You're through in 30 seconds. To me, that's a good airport. But Singapore not only has that, but it's like really beautiful. There's, you know, it's like a destination. Doha airport is also really, really nice. Any in the U.S. that you like? There any, you know, in the U.S., I like airports where you can get in and out quickly, Palm Springs. When you land in Palm Springs, you get the desert vibe, you get picked up at, you know, and it's close to the city you're going to. I hate landing like at JFK when it's, your drive into the cities longer than your flight. We're not going to ask you to weigh in on that aisle versus window debate,

but let's go one level deeper. What does a preference for a window or aisle reveal about a person's character? Yeah, so if you're an aisle person, you have a weak bladder. That's pretty known. Yeah, you're in character. It's more about like your biology. I think, you know, window people are aviation geeks. And also window seat, you have control over the window.

So like if you really need to sleep. And I think window people are more assertive, like, if you have to get out, like just get out. You have to ask people, like, if you're sitting in a middle or an aisle, like part of that is like getting up when the person needs to get out. So I'm a window seat person myself for a lot of reasons, even safety. Like I've seen like bins on planes open up mid-flight turbines, stuff falling out. Like I want to be at the window seat.

I've slept in an aisle seat and I've had my kneecaps ram by the drink cart. People with backpacks. People have no spatial awareness in life, let alone on an airplane, smashing you in the face. So even though I'm super tall, and if I'm sitting in economy, you'll find me at a window seat in the exit row. I think it should be a federal crime if you have a window seat and you keep the window closed. I think it's kind of a game though. How often do you get to be 35,000 feet above the earth and looking around?

I know, especially on an afternoon flight, like, grow up people, like, but or bring, I'm a big believer, like, choose your own destiny. So if you want to sleep, bring an eye mask. Bring an eye mask, ear plugs, get your noise cancelling headphones. There will be children on planes. There will be annoying people. Block it all out. Like bring your own entertainment system, bring your own iPad loaded. The Wi-Fi's not going to work.

You know, the airlines that promise streaming, it won't work on your longest flight. I'm telling you that now. So come prepared and if someone wants to look out the window, so be it. Travel influence our culture. Do you think this is a net positive or a net negative for how people experience places? I think it's great. I think, look, we all live on our phones. We live in our feeds where I'm influenced by tons of travel creators who are going to really interesting places.

So I think it's, you know, everyone loves to hate on. an influencer. I'm personally inspired when I see real influencers who dive deep. This guy, Nick Maddick, he's an American. He's gay and he travels all across Syria and he's been to every country or almost every country. And I think that's fascinating because it breaks down boundaries. In my head, I'm like, oh, you're going to get so often like, you know, the gay community, anywhere in the Middle East, it's like a death trap. They're stoning you. You're being killed. And then it's like, oh, I can actually DM and be like, hey, you feel safe in Damascus. he's like, dude, I feel safer in Damascus truly than in most places in the United States.

And that, so I think influencers who do more than just doing a gorgeous shot in the Maldives, you know, the idyllic, you know, not sharing locations of where they are, I think, you know, whatever, they have their own business model. But if you're not following travel influencers that are actually teaching you something or pushing, they're out there. Alona, E-L-O-N-A. She's one of my favorites, her and her husband, Jerome. I mean, they travel really fantastic.

Bhutan, Japan. Like, I get so much inspiration because, let's be honest, like, chat GPT can help you plan a trip. But, like, where else are you going? Guidebooks, you know, Instagram. You know, social media is where we live. So I just say, if you're not inspired, find better influencers. But there's definitely been this backlash,

especially in some European countries against tourists. I mean, famously in Barcelona, some locals are spraying tourists. with squirt guns because they're basically saying that, hey, you're responsible for driving up our rents, this and that. What do you make of kind of this anti-tourism backlash that we're seeing across? I think it's fair, but I think instead of assaulting tourists who are not, insult your government, right? Governments can increase taxes. They can not allow new flights into the airport. It is your local government that controls it. But there's a balance, right? These same people attacking tourists, but the tourists pay for their schools and, you know, in certain

neighborhood. So look, I don't think it's as simple, but I don't believe in like blaming tourists. Blame your government. Every government has the ability to control, to regulate tour guides, to regulate ride share, Airbnbs, et cetera. And I get, you know, in Portugal, I'm actually becoming a Portuguese citizen. I did their golden visa. And it was driving up. A lot of people were coming in and buying up real estate and everyday people. So what did they do? They lobbied their government and they changed the rules. Luckily, I get in right before they all changed. and I'm not going to be a Portuguese citizen soon, but like, look, I can't be mad at. I mean, these are the people of their country.

So I would just say overtourism is a problem. And to people listening, this is a, you know, this is a message. Just try something different. And trust me, I'm going to Italy this summer and Portugal and France. And I love all these places. But sometimes the best travels you'll have, like go to Buenos Aires in August. It's their winter, but it's 60s. If you want art, culture, food, going to Paris in July where there's currently heat waves and no

AC is not it. Not only that, the euro this summer has lost against the dollar. Japan is still really affordable due to the currency, but go to South America. I mean, Argentina, you can do Argentina off-season ridiculously cheap. Nicaragua, Colombia. There's so many cool places that I think people think summer, let's go to Europe, let's spend a fortune. But I mean, even on the luxury side, hotels now, normal hotel rooms for four grand for a 250 square foot room. Get out of here. What inspired you to be a Portuguese citizen? You know, it was 2020, and we were locked up at home, and I was just Googling, like, how do I get EU citizenship? Because I was, and I ran across this Portuguese golden visa program.

And when I applied, it was as low as, and I didn't even buy real estate. I invested in a hotel. So this Marriott, this company called Merckhan, they are an investment group, and they build like Marriott and Hilton Inns all across. And part of the Golden Visa was that you could invest as little as 280,000 euros. and it got you, your kids, your parents, and if you're married, your spouse, and their in-laws, and your in-laws, you have to spend one week a year for five years, loan that money,

and then once you get your citizenship, like eight, nine years later, they actually buy back your original share. So you earn like one or two percent. This is not an investment thing. But for me, you know, that was the year of the insurrection. There's a lot of funky things happening in the U.S. then, and I'm like, I love the U.S.

I have no current plans to leave, but I'm like, having EU citizenship, the ability to live and work anywhere in the EU for the rest of my life and for my family, for, you know, I'm able to afford 280. If that went south, my life would not be impacted. So I was, I just applied. They changed it now to 10 years, but you can still do it. Which people think that program's over, but it actually does exist.

It's just, you have, it's like 500,000 euro minimum and you have to do, you can't buy real estate. You have to do an investment vehicle. Gives you two teams to root for in the World Cup, too. Yeah, exactly. Spread your bets a little bit. Yeah. Finally, this was just a question I was mulling over as, again, I was just in Greece for a wedding, and I was trying to figure out what souvenir to buy, because you feel like you should buy something when you travel someplace.

But then you go by these Chotchky shops and you're like, do I really need this? So what's a good souvenir to collect from a country that you traveled to? Well, you know, I have two kids, a one and a half year old and a three and a half year old. So I'm always actually on the airplane. This is a tip. most airplanes have, if you have kids in your life or friends or family, or even yourself, I mean, if they often, the airlines will have free kids, kids that come with like stuffed animals of the plane. So for the plane geek in your life, often I'm like, I forget to get my kids

actual gifts, but then I realize they're so young. So I always always ask the flight attendant. So if you've got like nieces nephews or kids, never hurts to ask a lot of times they get cool little gifts. But otherwise, yeah, don't buy chotchkees, spend it at the bar, spend it on a good experience with friends. Because lugging it, getting it through security, it's not really worth it. I saw Neil's face light up, even though you were talking about getting it for your kids. Neil's a big playing geek. So I didn't know.

I didn't know they had. My next flight, I will look for it. Yeah, my birthday's coming up. Yeah, there you go, Neil. All right. Well, thank you so much, Brian, for joining us. Everyone, check out the Points Guy's new Travel Summer Hub. It's got a one-stop resource for everything about how to travel better for less.

you'll get guidance on destinations to go, points strategies, flights, hotels, road trips, gear, you name it. It's got nine content categories. You put a lot of work into this thing. And we're giving out 250,000 Rove Miles. Rove Miles are among the most valuable miles out there, so enter to win. That's more than enough for a free trip.

Very cool. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much. Easy breezy. So fun. So are you guys going to, so you're Michigan, what, anything else is summer? I mean, we are going to Scotland.

Oh, nice. weeks. We are, just have a few, like, weekend things, but not July 4th. Yeah. Figure it out. This has been the craziest summer travel. Getting married in August. Oh, nice.

Yeah. And just, we're we're going. Do you have other wedding stuff? Well, you just did, yeah. We just did bachelor party also in northern Michigan. So we were both there. Then, yeah, Greece this past weekend, going back to Michigan. Then we're going to Scotland.

Where's the wedding? The wedding is in upstate New York. Oh, nice. That's a pretty easy trip. Are you going to do honeymoon right away or wait? No. Honeymoon, I think Japan, like the next year, kind of in winter. Live flat, live flat.

Yeah, the skiing, the skiing in Japan is, I haven't done it, but apparently it's amazing. Yeah, my story actually with my fiance, we were, she used to live in DC, we were eating at a restaurant, and you actually walked into the restaurant and I would have thought it was like Kim Kardashian. She goes, that's the one guy.

Where was it that French restaurant? This was like 20, yeah, yeah, this was a long, the time that was like 20-201 or something. Her eyes really got so good. Is she a toaster? She was. Yeah, I think I was there for like my friend Claudia's show. Yes, I think you were in.

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