Morning Brew Daily - What Gary Vee Thinks of a Possible TikTok Ban, AI Influencers and Why It's Not Bad to be Cringe

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

Happy Memorial Day! Neal and Toby chat with Gary Vaynerchuck about his new book, “Day Trading Attention.” Gary shares his take on the winners of a TikTok ban and the rise of AI and YouTube influencers having real world effects. Plus, how he got into the wine business and why he thinks the alcohol industry will survive despite a decline in consumption. Then, the label ‘cringe’ gets thrown around a lot but Gary thinks it says a lot more about our current society. Also, where the biggest sports opportunities are as media and distribution changes. Lastly, a discussion about the impacts of social media on future generations. Visit https://www.sage.com/morningbrew for more! Get your Morning Brew Daily Mug HERE: https://shop.morningbrew.com/products/morning-brew-daily-mug?utm_medium=youtube&utm_source=mbd&utm_campaign=mug Listen to Morning Brew Daily Here: https://link.chtbl.com/MBD Watch Morning Brew Daily Here: https://www.youtube.com/@MorningBrewDailyShow Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Good morning Brew Daily show. I'm Neil Fryman. And I'm Toby Hell. This holiday, there's a special interview episode coming your way, Gary Vaynerchuk, aka Gary V. That's right. We snagged the entrepreneur, investor, wine connoisseur, and media personality right off your TikTok and Instagram feeds and sat down with him in this very studio. He shared his thoughts on the upcoming TikTok ban, explained why AI influencers are taking over. And Toby straight up asked him when he says to people who call him, him cringy. Listen, I was curious, okay? But yes, this was a very fun one. Gary was energetic as ever, and it's coming up right after this quick word from our sponsor, Sage. We're not taking

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It's Monday, May 27th. Let's ride. Gary, thanks for jumping on the show today. Thank you, boys. Thanks for having me. So first question, you work in the intention economy where attention is currency. but who out there or what out there has your attention right now? That's a good question.

You know, I go very broad. What I mean by that is what has my attention? Like I'll show you something. Let's do show and tell. There's an app on my phone. I'm not involved in it. It's called break the web. It's early.

I'm not even sure it's going to crush the way I think it might. But look what it does. It does trending topics for the whole web, AI-wise. So what Twitter does, but no, no, for the whole web, right? So, like, what has my attention? Everything that's on here. What's runaway horses? There's some runaway horses

in the British art, right? Like, I want to know, much like what you guys are doing here, what's going on every day. And then sometimes people pick up real momentum. Right? So it'll go from like a year ago,

like, or two years ago, like, who's the sexy red person to like, wait a minute, I think she might pop. Right? Or it might be like, oh, this kid Aiden Ross, right?

Or like, oh, this, you know, this funny comedian, King Batch, 100 years ago. Like, so that's, that will happen with people and it will happen with trends. I'm like, why are we going to like super baggy 90s pants again? Like, you know, seven years ago, like, or five years ago, like, are dudes going to wear nail polish?

Like, is that cool in that? Like, so I stay crazy macro curious. I don't go deep except for things I love, like the Knicks and the Jets and like wine. I don't go deep on a lot. And I go very wide, very wide. Like every moment of the moment. what's happening, and then if something feels like it,

like if I say it, you know, like if it gains a moment, then I'll go a little deeper. So everything at a one, then some things earn a two, then some things are like, oh, this is a three, which would, and that's there with me like, oh, this Charlie DeMilio girl is about to be like the person on this TikTok thing. Like that's how my brain works.

Let's talk about this new book you have dropping though, day trading attention, how to actually build brand and sales in the new social media world. It's actually an update to a book book you wrote 10 years ago on similar topics. What has changed in the time between those two books are coming out? And then, I guess, follow up, what has stayed the same? Great question. So, yeah, I have a new book coming out, day trading attention. It's the follow-up to Jab, Jab, Jab, right hook. This book's title originally was Jab, Jab, Jab, Left Hook. And then when I was writing

and I'm like, wait a minute, this is my thesis. And I've come to realize my thesis is day trading attention. Like, you know, when I launched my dad's liquor store's website in 1997, held you guys in 97? Zero. I was six. Yeah. So, you know, like, think about that. Like, it was a long time ago.

And I knew the internet was going to happen. And then email marketing and then Google. And then I started a YouTube show like this in 2006, right? Like, I always pay attention to where the attention is. So what's stayed the same since Jab Jab Jabright Hook? Meta still is still a monster. So Facebook and Instagram still really matter, right? And Twitter and X still matter.

Twitter, YouTube. Obviously the TikTokification of social media has changed everything. Let me go into that because that's gonna be valuable to everybody. The social media I grew up with, and the one that you guys grew up with, was about email marketing.

Get as many followers as possible, and when you post, the percentage of them will see it, right? Same like email marketing. Build a million person mailing list, email out. Morning Brew, get as many people as you can. And 30, 40, 50, depending on 15, depending on how good your email is, will open it and some will act on it.

Same with social. I amassed a couple million followers on Twitter, and a certain percentage would see it, and some of them would act on it. Now we live in a world where it's not about building the following. It's the individual pieces of creative being good and finding the audience. That is profound.

Massive change, and should give everyone who's listening a lot of excitement because it's a level of meritocracy, a start over. Everyone who's missed it, has it missed shit. They literally can go make a poker video right now for 49 seconds, and they're a year away from making a lot of money being a poker influencer. That's insane.

Do you think there will be social media companies that pop up that fill the gap that aren't AI-generated, you know, AI-recommended content? It'll just be your friends like Facebook and Twitter and all these other social media companies used to be? Do I think that because we'll go through an era of this, that the pendulum will swing? Of course I do. Now, I think that's being serviced right now by text message groups and WhatsApp. By the way, that's why Snapchat crushes.

Like, for the youth, it's snap, and then people go to iMessage or WhatsApp, depending if they're international or telegram or, right? Like, that's the game. Like, what the small social network is called your seven-person Sixers group chat that all you are going to be talking about tonight, frustrated because you're down 30 after the game's over.

We'll see about that. When this comes out, I'm sure the Sixers will be cruising to the finals. While we're on the topic of TikTokification, Biden just signed a bill banning or requiring bite dance to divest from TikTok. Let's just say in the hypothetical scenario, TikTok does go away within the next 12 months. Who are going to be the winners and losers in this new paradigm? I'm not sure, but here's my hot takes.

I don't love to predict, which is why there's not a lot of horrible receipts for me out there. Like, I try to wait for things to happen. But here's my feeling. One, I think that's going to happen, which is why. So that's an enormous, it's one of the biggest resets of attention we've ever had. Usually it's gradual.

When we went from the radio to television, it was gradual. When we went from the television to the cell phone, it was gradual. This is going to be a shock of a ungodly amount of hours of attention having to find new audience. Here are the winners. Meta for sure.

Instagram's going to get a ton. Because a lot of people have their, people are insecure, they don't want to start building again. So they'll go to the place where they have. So I think Instagram will be a big, winner. I think a dark horse winner is X because I think they're going to reboot Vine. I don't know that to be true. I don't know anything, but I think it makes a lot of sense. I've been thinking it for a couple of months. Then I did see a tweet from Elon like Vine question mark. I don't remember

how he did it, but like it would make, I mean, Vine was the one that started this short form movement. I think YouTube shorts has a chance. And then I think the dark horse and the one that excites me the most is the unknown entrepreneur. You've got to imagine that there's an ungodly amount of kids right now who are working on their TikTok clone to try to capture that. I mean, if I was 19 at Stanford or, you know, or at home in a community college, I don't know. If I was capable, I would be building with the hope because it's this, by the way, this already happened. It's called India. India banned TikTok. TikTok is not in India. And India had a bunch of clones pop up. Now, India is unique because there's a lot of language dialects. You need it. But in the

the U.S., I think there'll be five to ten brand new startups that are going to try to claim it. I think Instagram's going to come through huge. I think Snapchat, if they got their act together a little bit and got more serious about spotlight and really like made that a bigger part of it could also pick up a lot. So I think Snap, depending if they do some tweaks, Instagram is definitely going to get some. YouTube shorts is definitely going to get some. And then I think Vine's the other big dollar course. I do want to talk about another shock to the system as you described it.

and that's AI. One of the talks you recently said that, what social media influencers have done to traditional celebrities, you think AI influencers are about to do to traditional social media influencers over the next five to 10 years.

Why are you so bullish on this new class of influencers, these AI influences? It's already happened. There's a lot of attractive girls on Instagram that aren't real people that are getting brand deals and selling only failing accounts.

So do you think that has a net positive effect on social media? Like, is it going to be better? I mean, a big thing that you preach is authenticity and connecting truly with people. What's it going to be like in five years when the people you're authentically connecting with aren't real people at all?

Do you think Santa Claus is good? I thought you're going to say, is he real? I was going to say, like, yes, I do. Santa Claus has never given me anything, so I don't think he's good. Okay. Do you think Rocky Balboa is good or bad? So you're saying... Neutral on Rocky.

So I think you're following where I'm going, right? Yeah. Like, I think it's going to be. meaning like it's going to happen and we're going to evolve. Many people thought the tele... Do you... Let me go even further back.

Do you know that when electricity was invented? 80% of the people didn't want it in their house because it had demons in it? Demons. Like, we can't leave the candles. The candles are right.

This is bad. Like, when my space came out, they're like, this is going to... Your kids are going to get kidnapped at the mall if they go on MySpace. Like, we demonize new technologies.

What do I think? I think it's evolution. I think it's just part of the game. All right, Gary, stay right there. We'll be right back. Yamava Resort and Casino at San Manuel is California's number one entertainment destination for today's superstars.

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While supplies last, ends June 30th, terms at AKA.m.m.m.m.com slash college PC. Speaking of influencers, recently, the YouTuber Marquez Brownlee reviewed the Humane AI pin, and he called it the single worst product he's ever reviewed. That sparked a debate about the responsibility of reviewers and the power of individuals to tank a company. What was your takeaway from that whole saga? Listen, he, first of all, he's one of my favorite people to watch over the last 20 years. I've watched that kid authentically work. You know, he's got an opinion.

Like, as long as Brownlee is, like, actually giving his honest opinion and there isn't some back-end deal because he's trying to tank it for something. As long as he's honestly saying, like, this is what I believe, well, he's earned a lot of respect and trust with his audience.

I think it's wonderful. If it's well-intended. Yeah. Like, when I did Wine Library TV, I did a thousand episodes. And I also, at one point, had a lot of power. And I didn't love it, to be frank.

When I would sit at about three years in, like, if I reviewed a wine on Wine Library TV, well, it mattered. And if I reviewed it poorly, it wasn't like I could tank a wine, but it wasn't good. Now, what I see a lot from influencers, especially in the beauty space, they get a little bit going, and then they get high in their own supply,

and they feel their power a little bit, and they actually deviate from their actual feelings or are playing a little bit more of an ego game. That's dangerous. It's so funny to me, because when I inevitably text all my friends, hey, I'm interviewing Gary Vee this week. What do you want me to ask him?

A lot of them did go to wine. Like, hey, give me a cheap $20 bottle of wine. So it's amazing how to this day, like that's still, I mean, yeah, you built up this huge kind of file. It's also cool. Like, when I was coming up when I was your friend's age, like wine wasn't cool like that. And even though wine has declined and alcohol is even declining with kids,

like, it is definitely way cooler than when I was doing it for you that makes me feel good. It's really, wine's really cool because it's a farming product. Like, unlike a Hershey's bar or poppy bourbon or a craft beer or like toothpaste or a deodorant, you may love a wine this year. So you may love the 2021 version. And then the next year you might not like it as much. And that keeps, it makes it fun.

Do you, do you think there is an existential crisis for the alcohol industry more broadly now? I mean, like every single trend shows that Gen Z and younger kids are moving away from alcohol at very significant levels. Not only that, you have cannabis and like, like, yeah. Now, I think the world speaks in absolutes. Do I think no one's going to drink alcohol?

No, I do not. Do I also know that even a five or ten macro percent swing down is tough on businesses? Yes, I do. Do I also know that even with a, let's just make pretend, in 10 years, 10% less alcohol consumed in the world overall. Big number, if that

was to happen. still somebody can start a brand new mescal or beer or wine a fucking crush. Like there's, it's a big ass number. There's a lot of alcohol being consumed. So I'm not crying for everyone in alcohol. I don't think my dad's liquor store is going out of business. I don't think wine techs.com is going to stop doing well.

But in the macro, yeah, there's less opportunity, but the best players are going to get more. I want to shift gears. By the way, real quick, before you shift gears, I just didn't want to lose this thought. You know where I think we've really lost our way with our actual opinions? Sports. I think the guys and gals on ESPN, on Barstool, on all the...

I think they say things they don't fully believe. I think too many sports, because they're just looking for another headline. When they're like, LeBron's things, I don't know if, like, I don't think they believe it. They found that that's what drives engagement and viewership is having a hot take, and it doesn't matter whether you're right or not. You just have to have a strong opinion. That is what crazy is. That I'm fine with. I have strong opinions.

I just think when I watch it, I'm like, I don't think he actually believes that. Like, I don't think he believes that Jason Tatum's a dog. That Igadala is going to take the final three. You know what I mean? That's a place where they've really lost their way. I think we, the audience,

can kind of feel like two weeks ago, you said Embed was the greatest. Now you're saying it's like, it's just, I think they're running out of shit to say. I don't think it's cool to stick on this. Like, one of the things that I always laugh about with my content, because I also talk every day on the internet

is, Gary, you see the same shit? And they're trying to like razze me. I'm like, man. What do you want me to talk about shit? I don't believe in. Like, yes, there are 45 principles I believe in. Luckily, the world keeps evolving. I believe in attention. I'm going to be there to talk about virtual influencers.

I didn't know virtual influencers were coming 10 years ago. So the world will change, but I'm not going to change my principles. So I guess this isn't that much of a gear shift at this point. You kind of segmented for me. I want to talk about this label cringe that people have been applying to everyone from Taylor Swift to the friend who you knew in high school is now trying to become an influencer on Instagram. And some people have applied that label to your content as well. So how do you think about the concept of cringe and how it's become almost weaponized today? I don't think about it at all.

I think about it with compassion. I think if you're someone who weaponizes anything, cringe, luck. I think envy is obvious. And I also think it's silly. I think a lot of it's not even that serious. I think 80% of the people that throw around cringe, it's like banter like amongst, it's like Sixers Nick, it's banter.

And the 20% that mean it, I feel bad for. If you're running around the internet, replying cringe in the comments to something, your life isn't awesome. It means you're not a happy place. Like you're trying to deploy some negativity because you're not feeling good. So 90%, 80%, I'm like in some locker room, like, homie, like my best,

my boys that I went to Mount Ida College with, they say the worst in the world and I get plenty of shit on, you know, it's your boy. Like, so I think 90 of it is just banter, but the 10% I actually view as, if you need to tell Taylor Swift, she's cringe in the comments of her latest Instagram post, I just know where you're at mentally and like,

I got love for you and I hope you get the fuck out of that. Yeah, I love this concept. There's Cringe Mountain, and there's some people who are on Cringe Mountain working their way up, and the people who are usually commenting in the comment section are at base camp. They haven't even stepped foot on it. So that's just another way. Yeah, it's just like, like I get it. Like, this is America.

This is humans. This is what the world does. We love to build up. Then we love to tear down. But then we love a Britney's back bitch, too. So, like, we'll literally go through full. Like, look at Taylor. We like literally actually built the world built her up.

Then she went through that period where like literally tore all the way down only to build her up to levels that we've rarely seen. And you know, and then guess what? It'll be time. And so like this goes back to detachment. Like I think one of the cool things that I'm hoping more people realize, like for me, I'm very grateful that I'm a good businessman. But like I got fortunate.

Like when I was like my whole life when I was growing up like grades were were the most important thing. And like, I was bad at that. And so I was told by the world that I was a loser. So I got used to it. Like, somebody in the comments being like, you, Gary Vee, is at 40 and 8 years old, is very different than being 12

than having a teacher saying, you're a loser, you're dumb. Because in the 80s, they weren't politically correct in Jersey. So, like, if I was able to handle that shit, you know, and I think about that a lot. Let's talk quickly about sports. You own a major league pickable team. part owner of a big three basketball team,

which is that league founded by Ice Cube, and you're an investor in the revival of a slam ball league. What are you seeing in these upstart leagues in sports? Where is the opportunity in sports? Where do you see as the best investment right now? Great question. The 1982 NBA Finals game, a 1982 NBA finals game between the Lakers and Sixers in America

was not aired in real time. It was on tape delay. The first Super Bowl, did not sell out all of its tickets. Me and my boys watched the first UFC pay-per-view because we never thought there'd be another one because it was human cock fighting. The history of sports tells you that new ones pop up.

F***ch changes. When the radio was the primary device of consumption, baseball, boxing, and horse racing, one of the three most popular sports because they're very good sports to listen to an announcer form. basketball football were coming up, but they were different. When we went to television, those things exploded, especially football. It is on TV product.

I believe that we're in the beginning stages of very substantial communication shifts. Obviously, I've been at the forefront of the social media. What I've always called was the mobile device was the television and television was the radio. That's what I've been arguing in marketing for the last 10 years. I think VR is coming. I don't think it may not be now. Like even today, there's a headline. Apple's downgrading the right back to me being wide.

I pay attention. But I don't view that as like CVR is dead. I view that as cell phones weren't crushing in the 80s the way people wanted them to either. You know, why they're too expensive. I promise you, if the Apple headset or the Facebook headset was $19, everyone would have, you know what I mean?

And the technology's got to get better. The first version of the Oculus compared to the Vision Pro in this short little window is like game changing. Plus, I don't even think it's going to be this. I think it's going to be contact lenses and no friction. So where am I going? I believe that over next 20, 30 years, the world's going to change quite a bit from a distribution and media landscape. And I think some sports will overindex. As you can tell,

I'm putting bets on different things. I'm trying to learn. Obviously, I have an incredibly big goal of buying the New York Jets. So I like owning, like, I'm really, like we had a real draft in the pickleball league. Like I have salaries. I have like a, with sponsorship, get people to attend the matches, get attention for it. So I'm getting good practice. And do I believe that pickleball has a dark course chance? I do. Do I think, you know, I invested in an e-sports team in the variant and Call of Duty League with the Wilfs, who owned the Vikings prior to that.

I'm also investing in a three-on-three women's league. Like, I'm trying to learn and I'm making bets. Look, there's a tag league, like tag world. Like, I'm not doing it, but I love it. I think it's got a real chance. This guy would be good at that. No, I've seen that. I would not.

They are incredible at that. Wait, are you like a little bit of a tag savant? I'm just laying you people with freeze tag back in the daily. Yes, absolutely. That was, that was a... Freeze tag was different. The currency of the elementary school, absolutely. All right, so we're running up on time here.

So I do just want to get your perspective on the big question right now of like, how is social media affecting kids in particular? A lot of people want to know, Gen Z, Gen Alpha. Are the kids going to be all right? The kids are going to be all right. I think we've created this narrative that it's like the same old adage. things change but everything's the same. And so the difference is

the reason everything feels intense now is you have media at your disposal every minute of the day. You still go to work for eight hours and not have media. Like, people don't get it. Like, people are like, it's never been worse. I'm like, do you know what the Civil War look like? It's never been worse than America. I'm like, do you know what the Civil War is?

Like, we're very bad in the context of history. And so the kids are going to be all right. And my answer is the kids are going to be all right if the parent's parent. It's that simple sometimes. Gary, thanks for joining us. This was awesome. Quick hitting. I know our audience will enjoy your perspectives on a lot of things.

Check out his new book, Day Training, Attention. It's out now, and you can find him literally everywhere on social media. So, Gary, it was a pleasure. Thank you, everyone. Have a great morning. Thanks, Gary.