Murder, Mystery & Makeup - cold-blooded killer or FRAMED? Was Alice Crimmins really guilty?

Episode Date: November 12, 2024

*FINAL CALL* ... Today, November 12, is that last day tickets are available to watch a replay of MURDER MYSTERY & MAKEUP - A Live Digital Premiere over to https://moment.co/mmm.  I aired my first ever live event on October 15. And it's honestly really hard to explain how much fun it all was. We laughed, we got spiritual and I shared some things I've never really talked about before. Vulnerability! Thank you, to everyone, who bought tickets and joined me. I'll never forget this experience. Now... if you missed the event... don't you worry. I got you. You can still buy a ticket to watch MMM Live. Now why would you buy a ticket to a live event that is no longer live, you ask? Good question. Well... this is an exclusive episode that cannot be seen anywhere else. Including YouTube. After November today... this story, all the hot gos and insider makeup tips are... POOF... gone forever. ***GET TICKETS at https://moment.co/mmm*** This was a one night only event you don't want to miss and it cannot be seen anywhere else but Moment by Patreon. _______ Hi friends, Happy Tuesday! You ever hear a story where the suspect is so obviously not the killer? Like, something is just not adding up? Enter Alice Crimmins, the so-called "tramp" found guilty for killing her kids. But was she actually guilty, or did these investigators just hate sex-positive women? And WHY weren't these cops looking for fingerprints!?!? The math is seriously not mathing... Also, let me know who you want me to talk about next time. Hope you have a great rest of your week, make good choices and I'll be seeing you very soon xo Bailey Sarian _________ :  :    F O L L O W    M E     :  : Discord:  https://discord.com/invite/BaileySarian Tik Tok: https://bit.ly/3e3jL9v Instagram: http://bit.ly/2nbO4PR Facebook: http://bit.ly/2mdZtK6 Twitter: http://bit.ly/2yT4BLV Pinterest: http://bit.ly/2mVpXnY Youtube: http://bit.ly/1HGw3Og Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3cC0V9d RECOMMEND A STORY HERE : [e-mail] Business Related Emails : [e-mail] Wanna Send Me Something? Bailey Sarian 4400 W Riverside Dr Ste 110-300, Burbank, CA 91505 _________ Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/MAKEUP. If you’re curious, head over to https://www.Davidprotein.com and check it out for yourself. Head to https://www.SelectQuote.com, and a licensed insurance agent will call you RIGHT away with the RIGHT policy for YOUR life and YOUR budget.

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You can get your tickets to the 28-day replay over at moment.co.mm. That's moment.co.mm. Now let's get into today's episode of Murder, Mystery, and Makeup. Hi friends, how are you today? I hope you are having a wonderful day so far. My name is Bailey Sarian and today is Monday, which means it's Murder, Mystery, and Makeup Monday! If you're new here, hi!

My name is Bailey Sarian and on Mondays I sit down and I talk about a true crime story that's been heavy on my noggin, and I do my makeup at the same time. If you're interested in true crime and you like makeup, I would say subscribe if you want, you know? That's up to you. Today's story, I came across randomly the other day,

and it just like engulfed me. Is that the word? Engulfed? Saturated? It took over my brain. Okay because I had never heard this story before at all and it was just like oh my god. So it takes place in New York with this woman. Her name is Alice Crimmins and she was like labeled a quote unquote tramp who was responsible for the murder of her two young children. But, hold it there, cause there's a but, and it's a big but. Alice was seen as a victim of like trial by innuendo.

She was seen as a woman being persecuted for her defiant anger at a justice system who was like more concerned with her social life than solving the murder of her children. The story is weird, it's wild, and I, it's kind of, it's deeply upsetting because you'll see. So listen, Alice was born March 9th, 1939 in the Bronx, New York. Her parents were said to be devout, like Irish Catholic and very strict, you know? You know. Alice would go to school at St. Raymond's Convent.

Like it was a Catholic school, but it seemed like Alice was a free spirit. She wanted to grow and like be her own person. She wanted independence, you know? And the older she got, the more she like kept her eye on the price, meaning independence. So sometimes the fastest way to get independence or just out of your parents' house back then was to get married, right? So in 1959, 19-year-old Alice goes on to marry her high school sweetheart, Edmund Crimmins.

So with Edmund, there wasn't much said about this guy, other than like he was handsome, he was six foot tall, had sandy hair, and like some considered him a catch, you know? But other than that, you really couldn't find anything about the guy's background and that seems to be the one thing that is consistent in this whole damn story so the two would go on to get married and that same year they would have their first son eddie jr then the following year they would have alice mar was born. So they're a cute little family and they moved to the Regal Gardens Apartments in Kew Gardens New York. Kew Gardens is in a neighborhood in

the central area of the New York City borough of Queens. So it was said their marriage was good as they usually are in the beginning. Not to sound like an old witch or something, you know, but the early years of marriage is good and their marriage was good. 26 year old Alice, she was a homemaker, so she would be at home, take care of the kids, clean the house, look presentable, make sure dinner's made, lunch, breakfast, all the above. Alice was said to be the type of person who cared about her outer appearance. I know that sounds shady, whatever, but like this is, you know, she always had full glam on. She dressed nice, her hair was done, nails done, she cared.

It was said when she was a teenager, she had struggled with really bad acne. So that's when she first started wearing like a lot of makeup to cover that and cover up the acne scars. And then over time, she just kind of continued it, you know, she just continued wearing makeup moving forward. But like to us, it's kind of like no big deal, right? But this was back in whatever year I just said, I already forgot but I know it was a year that like things were different

women were supposed to be more like naturally beautiful and like or like you didn't wear a lot of makeup or it wasn't noticeable you were wearing makeup but for Alice like it was obvious she was made up, hair done, nails done, outfit fit, like just fitted. She was just, she cared, right? Anywho, her husband, Edmund, at this time was working as an airline mechanic. Over time, he started to spend like little time at home and to Alice it really seemed that he preferred working overtime and drinking with the boys rather than be home with the family. There came a point where Alice was just feeling lonely and quite neglected in this marriage so she started to wonder like what

else was out there and by her own account she had only slept with one man in her entire life. And she was kind of at the point where she was feeling curious about maybe what she was missing out there, you know? She wanted to explore the Swinger's lifestyle a little bit, allegedly. It got to a point where just the couple was not working out anymore.

And Edmund actually moves out of the family apartment. They're still married, just separated at this point. But he gets real weird before moving out. He gets real weird, okay? He wasn't happy about the separation at all. Actually, he was freaking pissed. He didn't want to think about his wife being with somebody else. And she was honest.

She wanted to be with other people, you know? So you know what his ass did? Well, Edmund wanted like proof that she was sleeping with other men. So he decided to install a wiretap on her phone and another wiretap from the basement to her bedroom. Oh yeah. So he could sneak into the house and like listen to her making love to other men. He was just like a psycho. Jealous. Just ugh. So Alice was working as a cocktail waitress which was like what? Back then, again, wild times. It was seen as like taboo for a wife to get a job.

She's supposed to be at home with the kids, God damn it. Taking care of the house. But Alice needed money and she wanted independence. She didn't need a man. So she got herself a job regardless of what others thought. But for her, right? There would even be regulars who would come in and like she would date, quote unquote, date them.

And she was just really feeling it, you know? It was said that Alice was a quote, blue eyed redhead who was both slim and buxom. Eye roll, of course. They're like, she's slim and buxom everything a woman is supposed to be but listen there were other sources that said she had brown eyes so i don't know here but either way she had eyes we know that she had reddish hair she was good looking And it was said it was easy for her to get attention. Again, when Edmund found this out, it enraged him. He hated this, okay?

So he was, again, a little creep about it. Later on, Edmund admitted to sneaking into her place on numerous occasions just to be around her stuff and touch her, quote, personal things, end quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In my mind, I'm thinking underwear specifically. He was probably being weird with, because usually when guys break into a house and want to touch things,

it's always the fucking underwear, right? Anyways, but that's just my imagination. All he said was he would break in and touch her, quote, personal things. There was actually one night when Edmund was in the basement listening in, while Alice had a lover upstairs in her bedroom. He obviously was livid and stormed into her room,

chasing the guy, whoever it was, out of the house completely naked. And I think he kicked the shit out of him, but I can't confirm nor deny. Because I read it in one place, like the little details seem to be a little off here. But either way, gross. This guy, he's just inappropriate. Oh, but get this, because this makes it even, like, what? Yeah, it's a side note.

But Edmund also admitted to Alice that after sneaking in, he would go to a nearby park and expose himself to young girls. Huh? Yeah, he was just doing that. That was his hobby, I guess. He loved it. Live, laugh, love. He was trying his best.

Later on, when he was questioned about it, he would say that he made that part up to make Alice feel better for being a shitty person. I'm not kidding. He's like, yeah, I made that up because Alice is shitty and so I just wanted to make her feel better. Like, no, actually I'm worse, but sure. I don't know about you,

but I'm pretty sure most dudes, that wouldn't be their go-to answer. So I think it's safe to say that Edmund ain't right in the fricking head. What do I know? I know nothing. Okay, well, tensions are building. And mind you, there really isn't much mention

about the kids or like the parent relationship with them at this point. It's just all about like Alice, very bizarre. But anytime Alice did leave the house, she always had a babysitter in place or Edmund would have the kids. Edmund seemed to bad mouth Alice in front of the kids a lot. You know, just doing what you shouldn't do as a parent.

There was mention of one night where Edmund was sitting with his son, Eddie Jr. He was telling his dad that, quote, mom would invite cousins over who would walk around in their undershirts and would spend the night, end quote. Edmund hears his son say this and he was growing more angry with Alice and how she was like mothering the children. So the night that really sent him over the edge

was when one evening, Alice decided to leave the kids with the babysitter while she went out to a party with a boyfriend of hers. So Alice was 26, 27 at this time, and she was seeing 52-year-old Anthony Grace. It's like such a kind of pretty name though. Anthony Grace. Anthony was like a wealthy building contractor. Like he had money, okay?

He was a fancy man who wore silk suits and a diamond pinky ring. It was said that he had many prominent friends within New York City's politicians. But it was also said that he had many friends within the, quote, hoodlums, end quote. In other words, he had mob ties, is what was rumored. Alice and Anthony, they attend a party together,

and it was on a boat that was docked, and then the boat was gonna take off to the Bahamas. It was a bon voyage. Wait, bon voyage. Bon voyage. Party. Am I saying that right? Oh, I hate me.

Anyways, so it was a party on a fucking boat, okay? And then the boat was going to the Bahamas once the party was over. So the couple, you know, Alice and Anthony, they're going to go together. They're going to go have some fun on this boat but while on the boat you see what happened was that uh Anthony and some other men at this boat party quote unquote playfully locked some women in a bathroom on the boat so they're like we should lock them and then they lock them in there and it's like okay cute i think this was totally planned but whatever lock them in there ha ha ha it's so funny ha ha and then guess what the boat took off and set sail to the bahamas hello sweetie you have children at home what are you doing you know like, like stupid, just really stupid.

But they were like, LOL, whoops. And like, I guess the boat was at sea for like quite some time. I think a week maybe. Yeah, she fucked up. And to be fair, Edmund was pissed. Do you blame him? No, no, not at all with this one. Well, back at Alice's home, you know, the babysitter's watching her damn kids,

wondering where the hell Alice was at. So she ends up calling Edmund, the babysitter, and she tells him like, hey, Alice isn't home yet, okay? It's late and she, the babysitter, she needed to leave. Like, hello, thank you. So this pissed Edmund, obviously, all the way off. So he immediately goes to pick up the kids, takes them back to his mother-in-law's house,

aka Alice's mom's house, and decided that he was going to file a suit for full custody of the kids, which he did in June of 1965. So Alice Grimmons own mother even sided with him saying like he was a good man who would take care of the children. And Alice's mom, she was honestly not really fond of Alice's behavior either.

And she was all for him having custody of the kids. Honestly though, I think we can all agree this was very stupid behavior on Alice's part. Swore it was an accident, but whatever, you know? It was just that one time. So a week before the custody hearing on July 14th, 1965, Alice went to wake her kids and found that little five-year-old Eddie, Eddie Jr. and four-year-old

Missy were not in their room. What? Yeah listen. So she kept the kids door locked from the outside which is kind of weird. I know I was thinking it too. She said it was to prevent, quote, chubby Eddie from coming out of his room at night and raiding the fridge. If you look at a photo of little Eddie, he doesn't look chubby at all. Like, what? But then again, I don't know.

I don't know. What do I know? I know nothing. Anyways, but that's why she locked it from the outside because I guess Eddie Jr. would wake up in the middle of the night and raid the fridge. And she didn't want that anymore. But when she opened the kids' bedroom door that morning,

she noticed, obviously the kids were missing, but also that the beds had been slept in, so like they were there, and the casement window, you know, the window and then like the beds, right? Casement window was cranked open about 75 degrees. Window open. Now remember that, okay? Alice remembered closing it the night before because there was a hole in the window screen

and she wanted to keep the bugs out. So she's like, I know I closed it. But other than that, I mean, her kids were missing and she didn't know what the hell to do. So she's in a panic. She picks up the phone, calls Edmund and starts accusing him of taking them. On the phone, she's just yelling at him like, don't play games with me, Eddie.

Like, don't fool around. Do you have them? They're missing. Freaking out, as I'm sure any of us would do, right? On the other end, Edmund was like, um, no. No, it wasn't me. Like, he was just strongly denying taking the kids. But he was furious at her for neglecting the children.

Quotes. Because the kids going missing was her fault, according to Edmund. After the two hung up, Edmund called the police, then headed over to the home. So then the detectives show up, all police and all them show up. And let me tell you what a shit show this was. So a man named Detective Gerard Peering and his partner, George Martin,

met both parents at Alice's house. Detective Peering decided this was gonna be his case. I mean, at the time he was up for a promotion and really had something to prove. So like this case was gonna be it, okay? So when he gets there, like to the scene, there were already police at the situation. And one of the officers filled the detective peering in on like the little

backstory that they got that the couple was separated in the in the middle of like a custody fight but that's all they really knew now it only took one glance at Alice for detective peering to know that something was up with her okay she did not look like a mother who just found out that her kids were missing. Mind you, no note about Edmund's behavior, but okay. So when they got there, they took a look around the apartment and it confirmed to the detective, just the unfavorable impression he had of Alice. Around the apartment,

they noticed that it was modestly furnished, but neatly kept. In the kitchen a mental note was made of the bottles of alcohol that were in the trash can along with a box of macaroni. Now that's important. Remember the macaroni. Thank you. Then detective Peering saw in Alice's bedroom a few things that really caught his attention. He's looking around. He sees empty liquor bottle, birth control pills, and brassieres. Not brassieres! Brassieres! I know! Oh how dare she. Along with that, they found her address book, which was filled with contact information for numerous men. And this all stuck with Detective Peering,

who was said to be a straight-laced Roman Catholic, again, who just got a really bad feeling about this Alice lady. So they keep looking. Underneath her bed bed they find like an overnight bag which was kind of like her memory box. It had dinner programs, little trinkets in it, just memories that documented her relationship with the Anthony Grace guy, the boyfriend. You know it was kind of like that box that you keep in your house. Maybe you don't, maybe you do, but I know I have one. I have all my photos in there, maybe letters,

dinner menus, like, oh, this was from our first date or something like, you know, stuff like that. You know what I'm saying, I know you know, thank you. So when Detective Peering saw this, it was said that these items disgusted him. How dare she have brassieres, birth control, like the birth control pills probably really got him. Hello.

The brassieres though seemed to really bother him. And I don't know why. Maybe he's never seen one before. No, he was like married with like six kids. So he had to take one off at some point. Or maybe he did that. Again, this was just not helping her. Detective Peering seemed to focus, again, on Alice and Alice only.

It was noted that she was neither sobbing nor hysterical, but instead she was heavily made up and her hair was perfectly styled. These are the notes that they're taking. I take better notes. The detectives also noted that Alice was sharply dressed, looking chic in her outfit and high-heeled white shoes. Again, no notes on how Edmund looked, but okay. By his own recollection, Detective Peering disliked Alice the moment he saw her,

saying to his partner that, quote, she looks like a cold bitch to me, end quote. Detective Peering told his partner to interview the guy, end quote, I'll take the bitch. Yeah, if you haven't noticed, this guy's a real douche. Alice told detectives what took place the day before. She said in the afternoon, she and the kids went for a picnic in the park,

then returned home around 4.30 p.m. After that, she made a phone call to her lawyer to go through some of the upcoming custody hearing stuff. And also she had other issues to discuss with him. He had like another call or something. So he was like, hey, I'll have to call you back. And then they hung up. So Alice went to the store to pick up dinner for that night,

bringing home soda, veal, and beans. After dinner, around 7.30 p.m., she called her lawyer again. After this, she took the kids for an evening drive. They drove by Edmund's home to see if he was there. I came across like mixed reasons as to why she did this. One reason said that Alice wanted to see if Edmund was home because if he was, then that meant he wasn't following her that evening

and her anxiety could relax. Then I read another reason why she did this was to see if Edmund had like a lover at the house. She would do a little drive by and be like, oh, fuck that guy. They had this like very just toxic love-hate situation going on. But either way, she and the kids went for a drive. When returning home, which was like within the hour,

she then bathed the kids, got them ready for bed. And then at around 8.30, the kids said their prayers and went to sleep. Alice told detectives that once the kids were asleep, she called her boyfriend, Anthony Grace. And this conversation didn't last long because he was going to the bar to have some drinks and she offered to come meet him, but he told her not to

because he wasn't gonna be there long. After hanging up the phone with Anthony, Alice said she got a phone call from another friend slash lover. His name was Joseph Roark. Now Joseph was a successful businessman who happened to be married with seven kids. Holy Toledo, I know, these people be having babies.

Joseph called to ask Alice to come and have a drink with him. And I guess she declined because at this time he was drinking too much and was just going downhill he's getting sloppy it just wasn't cute it wasn't cute at all plus on top of that he was married so I think that's a good reason why he shouldn't you know Alice said around midnight she took Eddie jr to the bathroom then helped him back into his bed. And then after that, she couldn't remember if she locked the kid's door or not, you know? But after this, Alice took the dog out for a walk and let her pee, the dog.

Alice said she had fallen asleep for a short while afterwards and then woke up around 2.45 a.m. She heard some kind of like loud noise. She said it wasn't concerning. So she didn't like check on the children, but she heard the sound noise. So she hears this noise and now she's up and it's around like 3 a.m.

She gets a phone call at 3 a.m. from Edmund who wanted to talk about the custody hearing. Yeah, at 3 a.m. Make it make sense. I don't know. But she said the phone call didn't last long, but now like when they were done, she was up, okay? So she took the dog out for another walk,

ran herself a bath afterwards, telling the detectives that she finally went to bed around 3 30 a.m so that was alice's version about like what she did that night edmund was interviewed about his whereabouts that day he told detectives that he had played golf that day then after he was done playing golf he went went to the golf club area, the clubhouse thing, and had a few drinks. Once he left the country club, what are they called? Golf club?

You get it. Like where they have the bar and all that stuff at the golf course. Once he left that area, he drove past Joseph Rorick's home to snoop around and see if Alice was there. He was aware of their situation remember he was listening in to their conversations he knew anyways she wasn't there that night so he decides to go to one of his local bars which it was said that he normally drank beer but like on this night he was ordering gin and tonics and was said to be very loud. It was very unlike him. He normally wasn't loud.

He normally wasn't drinking gin and tonics. Many speculated that perhaps he was trying to create an alibi by being super loud. Like, hey, everyone, pay attention to me because I'm gonna need you tomorrow when the police come. Yeah. Then around 3 a.m., he left the bar and went to Alice's apartment and there were some witnesses who said they actually saw Edmund watching the apartment from his car. A little

creep, huh? But then there were others who said they saw him by the children's window. These things were mentioned that there were eyewitnesses, but like the detectives never went and like interviewed them. I don't know, considered them as eyewitnesses. He just took his statement and they were like, thank you. And they did nothing with it. It was bizarre. But some people say they saw him outside by the children's window and the police were just like, okay, sounds, sounds like something he would do. Great. Thank you. He

said he saw the lights on inside and decided to go home and call her to talk about the hearing. Like bro, it's past 3am. Who calls someone to talk about a custody hearing at this time? 3am? Just the whole... Okay, whatever, you two. Get it together. So while they were being questioned, their home was being processed by forensics, which they did an awful freaking job.

There were only a few pictures taken of the crime scene, like four, it seemed like. You could probably count it on one hand, how many pictures they took. And they said it was because of the lack of instruction they got from officers. And also, there were no fingerprints taken from the windowsill. Remember, the window in the kid's room was open. 75 degree angle or whatever the hell.

75 degrees it was open. So most likely, if they are missing, they probably, I don't know, just, this is my amateur opinion. If the windows open, maybe they went out it. Oh, I don't know. I'm no professional here. But they didn't take fingerprints or anything from that section. That most likely if they were to go out the window,

they would use their hand. You know what I'm saying? Dumb asses, I swear. Oh, get this, get this. So outside of the children's window, there was a stroller with an empty box sitting in it. This wasn't processed or even considered as evidence either.

It was said that there was one fingerprint collected that did not match either of the parents. Now this didn't matter though. Nobody gave a shit because detective Peering said that he was convinced that Alice, she had done something to her children. He just needed to prove it. Fuck that fingerprint, he said.

Fuck that fingerprint. Alice did it. So he gives her a test. So while at the scene, poor little Missy Crimmins' body was discovered in a vacant lot. She'd been strangled to death. Yes, I'm sorry. Awful. Detective Peering was told that the body of a little girl matching Missy's description had been found,

but nobody told the parents. I mean, the detective was literally with Edmund and Alice at their apartment and they didn't say anything. They're like, oh, 10-4, you know? Now, instead, this detective thought it would be a good opportunity to try and test Alice, see if she knew more than like she was leading on. So he puts her to the test and this is one sick test.

So the detectives take Alice in the car with them and they drive to the vacant lot where Missy's body was found. Mind you, they did not tell Alice where they were going or that they even found a body. So imagine that. Instead, they drove her to the scene where she was escorted directly

to her four-year-old daughter's body. No warning, no heads up. The fuck? Alice sees her daughter, Missy, lying on her side, dressed in her PJs still, with the pajama top wound and knotted around her neck when alice finally realizes what she is looking at she says something along the lines of like like it's it's missy and then she fucking passes out also there were police officers all around and also the press. So she found out her daughter had been murdered

and had to ID her daughter in front of a bunch of strangers with no heads up. Now the detective wanted to do this to see if she got like antsy or reacted in some kind of way when they went to the vacant lot. That was what like the test was and no reaction besides when they took her to the body. So I hope that sick man is happy or something.

I don't know. Just like so shitty. Just so shitty. Who does that? That should be illegal. Maybe it is. I didn't look it up. I only know like in this story.

So she passes out. The detective thinks she's just kind of being over dramatic and playing for the press who was nearby so he's the whole time he's like this bitch anywho so after alice ids her daughter's body they put her in the car and they drive her back to her apartment complex the detective noted that on the drive Alice did not cry again very odd behavior to them and it is very odd behavior but maybe she was fucking shocked to her core I don't know either way it was very odd behavior and to them it was like this mother just suffered a major loss and she wasn't shedding a tear on the drive home. Like it just, to them, any normal mother would be devastated.

I don't know. Have you ever cried so much that you just can't cry? Well, I don't know. I don't know what, I don't have children. I don't know how I would react. I don't think any of us know how we would react really until you're in that position. I don't know. It is weird that she didn't cry.

Well, again, there was like press at the vacant lot area, but the media had gotten word in general about what was going on. So there was a bunch of press lined up at Alice's apartment waiting for them to arrive at her place, cameras in hand. So Alice like gets out of the car and she's photographed walking back to her apartment.

And she has tears in her eyes, but the detectives believed she was crying and acting up for the cameras and that it was all calculated. Like, oh, she knew exactly what she was doing. Don't believe those crocodile tears wait is that what it's called crocodile tears or alligator tears but you know one of those guys who lives in like creeks and moats and shit so they really were like she's faking it don't believe

her she's faking it well now what you know shit so they leave alice for the night i don't know if edmund stays the night or not. I'm so sorry, I forgot to look that up. But either way, the next morning, the detectives come back to question Alice some more. And when they showed up, she had asked for a few more minutes to finish getting ready

while they waited in the living room area for her. Not a good look. This did not help her case at all because the detectives again were thinking how could this woman be putting on makeup and getting ready when instead she should be grieving. Plus at this time her son was still missing and to them it appeared that Alice was just continuing on with her normal life like nothing ever happened. They just kept complaining about how she was acting. It's unfortunate because like this does not help. Oh Alice no. Okay so there was an autopsy performed on Missy and the results raised even more suspicion. The contents of Missy's stomach showed that she hadn't eaten veal that night but instead she had been fed macaroni.

You remember? Earlier I said there was macaroni in the box. I mean, in the trash can, yeah. So there was macaroni in her stomach. Along with that, in her stomach there were carrots, beans, potato, and chewing gum in her stomach. But remember how the macaroni box was found in the trash? Well, there were no photos taken of the freaking crime scene.

So when Alice was like, yeah, we had macaroni that night because she kind of flip-flopped in one interview. Well, in the original interview, she said they had veal. And in another interview, she said that they had macaroni. But if someone would have taken a picture of the trash bin, I don't know, it could have like helped solidify the truth, but no, nobody wanted to do their job that day, truly unfortunate. Missy had been strangled, there were no signs of sexual assault, but the medical examiner could not give

an exact time of death, but speculated she had been dead between 6 to 18 hours. And to investigators, this meant that most likely she had been murdered between the hours of 10 p.m. and 4 a.m. It would be five days later that Eddie Jr's body was found. Now here's the sad part, like I could not find information

like where his body was found or how anyone even found it. It was just like, there was nothing, there was nothing I I don't know but he was found five days later now poor little Eddie's body was so badly decomposed that they could not determine like a time of death and a cause of death could not be determined. Investigators believed he had most likely been killed around the same time as Missy. Now, both of the parents, Alice and Edmund, were questioned a lot.

The detectives tried to get something out of them, even offering a lighter sentence if one of them wanted to confess. They never did because they said there was nothing to admit. Alice and Edmund had ended up moving back in together to comfort each other through like their grieving, but Alice continued to date other men. The detectives decided it would be best to tap Alice's phone

and have police follow her in hopes to like get evidence for their case. They believed Alice would have to have accomplices because the locations and times which the bodies were found meant that like someone else had to transport them, at least one of the bodies. So they believe like there had to be someone else who helped. So they're listening in hoping to hear a conversation about payment or maybe a conversation about the crime,

just anything related. Instead, they got an earful of like sexually related conversations. I guess they heard many conversations with Alice and different men that were pretty spicy. And this seemed to piss the investigators off even more. Of course it did. Hello?

They used this against her. They went to her place of work and informed them that their employee, Alice Crimmins, was a promiscuous woman who was suspected of murdering her two young children. What do you think happens when a detective goes to your work and says that? You're probably going to get fired. And guess what? Alice got fired. Hey, thanks. Wow. You know, then they went to Edmund and they let him know that Alice was entertaining other men in the bedroom. They felt it was their duty to inform him. Yes, their duty. Duty. I don't know. I don't know. Sick. The fact that they went to her place of work blew me away. Like what? It's not

like she's actually been like tried for it or anything. No, these assholes just wanted to ruin her life. And they sure did. For now, Alice had lost her children, lost her job. She's not doing well. She's actively trying to find work, which was hard because her name and freaking face were everywhere. Newspapers, everywhere. Plus, the police were just straight up ruining her life. It was said Alice began drinking a lot.

I don't blame her. But she began drinking a lot and I don't blame her, but she began drinking a lot and started to like put shit together. She's realizing that these detectives are not trying to help her find out what happened to her children, but instead trying to pin these murders on her. She's like, wait a minute, wait a minute.

She's realizing some shit. On top of that, this is when she found out that her phone had been wiretapped. I couldn't get clarification as to exactly how she figured this out, but she did. When she realized this, every time she picked up the phone, she would speak to whoever was listening on the other end, by saying something along the lines of like, hi boys, drop dead very polite but she knew they were listening and they knew that she knew that they knew that she was listening

now they also noticed because they're following Alice everywhere and listening to all of her freaking phone conversations and they did a little following when it came to Edmund. You see Edmund had been acting pretty odd himself. Now his behavior always seemed like they had an excuse or something or they just kind of I don't know let it go. It's bizarre. I don't I don't know what their deal is. So Edmund he was constantly asking police about their findings and what the medical examiner had to say. He was very interested in the investigation. And because of this, it was weird. I'm giggling a little bit because it's like,

he might just want to know what happened to his kids. I don't know. Maybe they both just want to know. But what do we know? Eventually, the investigators asked Edmund to take a polygraph test, which he was like, Oh yeah, no problem. I'll totally do that for you guys. But the day before it was supposed to take place,

he was spotted at a local library reading many, many books about polygraph tests. Yeah, odd. The next day he literally took the polygraph test and passed with flying colors, which is nice. Like, okay, but? The next day, he literally took the polygraph test and passed with flying colors, which is nice, like, okay, but what was that about? And why didn't they ask him about it? I don't know, because they didn't want Edmund to be the bad guy, I guess.

Alice told investigators that she was receiving anonymous phone calls from a man who was like making threats towards her. And remember, the police are listening in, so they even noted that the man on the phone sounded like Edmund, but Alice was still their focus. Time kept on going by. There were no suspects other than Alice and the case seemed to go cold.

Maybe because they were focusing on the wrong person, but I don't know what do we know. We don't know nothing, we stupid. Then the detectives receive an anonymous letter which they believe was their break in the case. The letter was dated November 30th 1966 and it was from someone who claimed to be an eyewitness the night of the children's murder the letter said quote the night was very hot and i could not sleep i went into the living room and was looking out the window getting some air this was at 2 a.m a short while later a man and

woman were walking down the street this was like around around Alice's apartment. The woman was about five feet in back of the man. She was holding what appeared to be a bundle of blankets that were white under her left arm and was holding a little child walking with her right hand. He hollered at her to hurry up. She told him to be quiet or someone will see us. At that moment, I closed my window with squeaks and they looked up but did not see me. The man moment, I closed my window, which squeaks, and they looked up, but did not see me. The man took the white bundle and heaved it into the back seat of the car. The woman picked up the little baby and sat with him in the back seat of the car. This woman was then with dark hair. The man was tall, not heavy, with dark hair and a large nose. This took place

under a street light, so I was able to see it quite plainly. P.S. About one hour later, I thought I saw the man getting into a late model white car." End quote. The first thing that the detectives wanted to do was figure out who the hell sent this letter. They wanted to question this person. You know, they need some like actual eyewitnesses.

It's like, please give us something. So within the letter, they did find clues. I only read you a little snippet. Like I left out the other parts that were boring because it was just a bunch of street names and whatnot. But within the letter, there were street names and different clues. So they use these clues to track down

or locate like what apartment complex or whatever, what building this letter may have came from. And it led them to a woman named Sophie Iremirski. So Sophie was a middle-aged woman who suffered from insomnia. She was known by her friends to be quite the exaggerator and an intention seeker. Yeah. When investigators interviewed her, her story seemed to change a little bit.

Sophie told them that the woman that she saw that night said something along the lines of like, my God, don't throw her like that. But the woman she saw, and she said this with confidence, she was like, it was Alice Crimmins. Dun, dun, dun, you know? And it was like, okay, bitch, but like, why didn't you say this in the letter originally if you felt so confidently about it?

Sophie had seen Alice around the neighborhood, but they didn't have much of a relationship besides that. I mean, investigators were like, hmm, it's kind of weird that originally in the letter you described seeing a woman with dark hair. You know, Alice had lighter reddish hair, but regardless, this was the break they were looking for. At the same time, they were trying to track down Sophie.

Investigators were also trying to track down one of Alice's boyfriend's lovers, Joseph Roark. Remember him? Joseph. Police had heard some spicy phone conversations between the two, and they wanted more information. When looking into Joseph's background, they saw that his business was going downhill.

It was going downhill real quick, and he was drowning in a lot of debt. He had also written a handful of bad checks, and was in some serious legal trouble. Plus on top of that, he was having an affair with Alice and he was also married. So it was just like not a great look. When Joseph was interviewed, he recalled having a conversation with Alice where she was talking about her custody battle

with her husband. And during this conversation, Alice said to Joe, this is according to Joe, I'd rather see them dead than with Edmund. It's a quote. But it was just something she said stupidly. I think it's called a hyperbole. Anyways, you know, the thing you just kind of say, you just say it, but you don't actually mean it. That's what he told investigators. And then other than that, she had never said anything like directly incriminating to him, according to Joseph. But detectives and whatnot, they wanted more.

They weren't happy with this answer he just gave them. They felt like we can get more from you, Joseph. So investigators brought up his criminal history and offered him immunity from his crimes, only if maybe, you know, he gave them some more information that would incriminate Alice. Now remember, Joseph was in trouble

for some serious crimes. So immunity, maybe I know a little something. I'm not sure, let me think about it. Well, listen, bitch, all of a sudden he recalled, he was like, oh my god it's crazy, I just had this like, that's so Raven moment. He recalled that she had told him something that was quite damning. With Joseph and Sophie's accounts, investigators put together

what they think, or what they thought had happened. They believe that night, Alice was receiving help from a man with mob ties. They theorize that Alice strangled Missy because maybe Missy was in the way of Alice and one of her boyfriends getting hot and heavy that night, which must have just enraged her, leading to her lover making a quick exit and never being heard from again. Then Alice made a phone call to her other boyfriend, Anthony Grace, and they decided that the call must have been about, like, Missy's killing. Anthony, according to them, then made some phone calls to his mob friends for help.

He told the quote unquote hoodlum to go over to Alice's place and silence little Eddie. And that's when Sophie spotted them leaving, believing that Missy was dead, being carried in a blanket, and her older brother was walking behind. Where's the evidence? Where's the evidence? Do they even find a blanket at the scene?

I don't even remember them finding a blanket at the scene. Ay, whatever. Listen to this. So on September 11th, 1967, it's been two years and two months after the deaths of her children. Alice Crimmins was arrested for first-degree murder of her daughter. Dun dun dun, I know, what? Yeah.

She was not being charged in her son's death because of how badly decomposed his body was, it could not be medically proven that he had been murdered. Of course, bitch, the press was loving this face. Oh, it had everything. Sex, murder, more sex. I don't know what else it had, but you know, they focused of course on Alice's looks, her tight fitting outfits, and the fact that she worked.

Again, this was a time when women should be homemakers and not money makers. She was branded as a man hunter and a lowly cocktail waitress, who smacked gum loudly. Yeah, they were coming for her for how she chewed her gum. Isn't that wild? On top of that, of course, the media loved to focus mainly on her love life, which was causing moral outrage with the readers.

One of the papers labeled her a sexpot on trial and described her as a, quote, a misbehaving wife, a Circe, an amoral woman whose many affairs appear symptomatic of America's sex revolution, end quote. So as you can see, nobody is actually coming through with evidence. You know, they're all just talking shit and ribbing her to shreds. And people following the story were buying into it. Everyone was outraged by Alice Crimmins' behavior and wanted her locked up. It got to the point where Alice could not escape from the rumors and gossip that was all around her.

Poor thing. The trial started in May of 1968, and it was sensational to the extreme, partly because of the sex-related testimony and partly due to Alice, her emotional outburst during the trial. Now get this, because this was my favorite part. The jury was made up of 12 white conservative men.

There wasn't a single woman on that jury. So I'm sure this is gonna go well. It's like, what the fuck? They're setting her up to fail. Nobody wanted to actually solve any murders and see like who the hell killed these these poor children. Nobody. Like what the hell? Anywho, when the physician who first inspected Missy's body testified, he started describing to the courtroom what he saw. Then going into detail about what Missy was wearing at the time alice

out of nowhere she like stood up and shouted no yeah and then she started to to cry it was pretty loud so the judge was like girl you better shut the fuck up and let this man finish his testimony so he went on and described the tie that was around Missy's neck and how it appeared to him. And again, Alice was crying uncontrollably. And this caused a scene, of course. So the judge put the court in recess, telling Alice to get the fuck together. Then Joseph Roark took the stand.

Oh yeah, now this was deeply upsetting to Alice. He told the packed court that prior to the murders, Alice had discussed the custody suit with him and speculated that she might simply take off with the children if she thought she might legally lose them. He also repeated her statement that she would rather see them dead than with Edmund. Later, he said that the two lovers

had been talking about the children, and that's when Alice, with tears in her eyes, had sadly said, quote, "'Joseph, please forgive me. I killed her, end quote. This was the additional information he gave to investigators when offered immunity for his crimes. So, I mean, if you want to believe him, you can, but do you? You do?

Get the fuck out of here. I'm just kidding. Look, a lot of people like did believe him. So when Alice heard this in the courtroom, she stood up and she screamed like joseph how could you do this this is not true joseph you of all people oh my god like she was just going off nobody could calm alice down and it was not a good look to the jury i guess it was said that literally the day before he testified he he asked Alice to marry him.

So maybe this was retaliation for her saying no. Just a thought though, I don't know anything. Then Miss Sophie was brought in to take the stand and it was said her testimony was one of the most dramatic of all of them. Sophie said she had seen a woman carrying a bundle, a man, and a little boy that night at her window. He took the bundle, he swung it under his arm,

and then he walked very quickly to the car. When she was testifying, it was said that the courtroom was shh, shh, shh, shh, shut the fuck, was like shushing each other because like they were listening in anticipation, like leaning in, like what is this bitch gonna say? She was just a really good like storyteller. Whoever this guy was took this bundle and threw it into the back of, the back seat of the car.

She ran over to him and she said, "'My God, don't do that to her.'" And then he looked at her and said, "'Oh, now you're sorry?' And she said, "'Please, please, please don't say that. So this was like a new little spin to her story. It was like, okay, cool. When asked if she recognized the woman in the courtroom,

Sophie instantly pointed her finger. She's like, boom, Alice. She said, that woman, Alice Crimmins. Alice, once again, deeply, Alice Crimmins. Alice once again, deeply offended. She jumped to her feet screaming like, you liar, you liar. I guess she said this like 10 times.

The judge demanded that Alice once again, get a fricking grip. I don't blame her though. Like, I don't know if you've ever watched someone lie about you to your, like about in front of you. I don't know. It'd be hard not to like want to fucking fight. I don't know.

I would beat this bitch. Sorry. Sophie's testimony was very popular with the courtroom. And most of the people there were strongly convinced that Alice was indeed guilty. Alice's attorneys tried to point out inconsistencies between Sophie's story from what she told investigators to the one she now told or was telling in the courtroom.

But it wasn't looking good for them because people were like, we believe Sophie, like she's not lying, we believe this woman, she is older and we trust her. And like, damn damn that sucks then alice took the witness stand in her own defense oh yeah this could go really bad or really good but most of the times it never goes well but look she takes a stand they took her through like her background and the troubles in her marriage when the questions had turned to her children, it was said that quote,

crimins began to shake uncontrollably and tears began streaming down her heavily made-up face. End quote. Yeah, that's what they said. Again, nobody seems to be reporting on like, I don't know, like evidence and stuff. Like where was it? So after that, the judge declared a recess, but the trial actually had to be postponed until the next day because Alice on the stand had,

I guess when she was done, she had fainted. And I know this totally sounds like a soap opera or something, but she fucking fainted. Well, the next day she repeated the story she had told the police about, like the night of her children's disappearance. Alice strongly denied that she ever confessed to Joseph that she killed her daughter, Missy.

It was everyone's word against hers. And it was, it was rough. Her boat was sinking. Look, it didn't get better when she was cross-examined. They didn't have anything on her, you know? So the prosecutor just brought out every possible detail of Alice's sex life, knowing it was going to make her look bad.

People were outraged by non-marital sex, especially done by a woman. What was the point of even bringing up all this? I know, I don't know. That's all they had. As if that proved she killed her children. This whole story just like had me so livid because who killed the kids?

Doesn't anyone want to fucking know? Sounds like the detectives don't. When Alice left the stand, she knew she made herself look bad to the conservative old fashioned men who made up the jury. And indeed, one of the jurors commented to another juror, a tramp like that is capable of anything, end quote. I know what you're thinking.

They should get a mistrial over this juror's comments. And Allison's team tried to get a mistrial over these these comments but the judge denied that idea. After 13 days in court the jury came back with a verdict of guilty of first degree manslaughter. Ugh what? With what evidence? Just with Sophie's and Joseph, I guess. The shock of the verdict caused Alice to lapse into a coma. I'm not kidding. She went to a full blown coma. She ended up in the jail hospital for two weeks

after her conviction, then was transferred to prison when she got better. When she arrived at the prison, it was said that she became like briefly hysterical. Then eventually she calmed down and she settled into the prison routine. Behind bars, Alice hired a new lawyer who was well-known and well-respected in New York City.

Many people were confused that this guy like took the case because first of all, he's expensive as hell. And second of all, she was just a quote, tramp, end quote. You know, you don't know, but now I'm telling you, that's what they, isn't that fucked up? That's just what they were calling her. But it turns out that the attorney was convinced of her innocence and offered their services free of charge.

The first thing the new attorney did was go to Queens County Supreme Court judge for bail on the grounds that there was a good chance the conviction would not stand. It was granted and after 24 days in prison, Alice Crimmins was free. But it's not over yet, okay? The second trial began in March, 1971, and it was six years after the deaths of the Crimmins' children. I mean, this time the stakes were even higher

than they had been in the first trial, because now Alice was being charged with both murders, first degree murder of her son, Eddie, and first degree manslaughter in the death of Missy. Over the last couple of years though, here's the kicker. The public had evolved. Women having sexual relations was no longer as shocking as it once had been. The women's liberation movement was all the rage in 1971.

And some early feminists, as well as many others, believed that Alice was being tried for her sex life and not for murder. Facts, come on. Edmund Crimmins, now divorced from Alice, testified in this trial. He did in the first one too, but like nothing was like, there was nothing really said. And like same with the second round. Like there was nothing that implicated Alice. He stated that he had no feelings for her.

And it was like, that was it. It was like, what about you? Like taking your pants off and showing like you're ding-a-linging the kids at the park. You wanna talk about that? No, they didn't ask. Ain't that something, huh? It's literally the only thing I could find about like Edmund

besides that. It was kind of a joke. Detective Peering testified where he added something new. He added some spice to his statement. He said that Alice had told them during their drive, quote, the children were acting up in the back of the car and she swung and hit the girl, end quote. That sucks, man.

That fucking sucks. Everyone's against you. What if she didn't kill her kids, you guys? You ever think about that? Guess who else took the stand? Anthony Grace, the boyfriend. And the prosecutor repeatedly asked him if she had requested any help that night and if he had

sent anybody over to that apartment. He denied, denied, denied that he had anything to do with their children's deaths. Once again, Sophie came back for a dramatic testimony. You know, she gave her testimony about the people she had seen from her window. Again, she was asked to identify the woman in the courtroom and she replied, Alice Crimmins. Like pointed like a psychopath. But Alice Crimmins stood and shouted saying like, it's not, you're a liar. In God's name tell the truth.

The judge like used his gavel. Oh, that was loud. Sorry brush. The judge gaveled for order, but she continued screaming. She was like, you're a liar, you swore to tell the truth. Do you know what the truth is? Again, the judge asked Alice to get a grip on herself and then declared a recess.

And when they came back, Alice's attorneys attempted to poke holes in Sophie's statements by raising doubts about her mental health. I guess at one point Sophie had overdosed on tranquilizers and she like had to go to the hospital get her stomach pumped. It was very dramatic. She denied it was a suicide attempt but he tried to get the jury to see that you know maybe she wasn't mentally well. Then he questioned her about the dialogue she had heard that night from Sophie's window to like where she saw the people talking was a pretty far distance so the attorney asked her like were they speaking loud or were they yelling and Sophie had responded like no they were talking in normal tones and then

Alice's attorney was like so you heard their conversation from like 200 feet away. You must have magic ears. Wow. And Sophie told them that like, she could hear conversations from her window all the time because the acoustics carry differently in the area. The acoustics carry differently in the area. Oh, is that what it is?

I don't know. It's a little suspish, but what it is? I don't know. It's a little suspish, but okay, girl. I don't know. But like people weren't riding that hard for Sophie this round, which is nice. Once again, Joseph took the stand and said that Alice said, quote, forgive me, Joseph, I killed her.

Alice stood up again, yelling, you're miserable lying worm. I like that, worm. But you know, she's like, girl, you're miserable, lying worm. I like that, worm. But you know, she's like, girl, you gotta stop, stop. So a surprise witness appeared. What? Yeah, surprise witness. A short and petite housewife named Tina DeVita.

I know, good name, good name. Tina DeVita? I'm Tina DeVita and I'm here to testify. I swear to tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth and whatever else I need to say. Thank you. She testified that she had seen a group consisting of a man carrying a bundle, a woman, a dog, and a boy

walking in the area of the Regal Gardens apartment that night, but like nobody knew who she was like nobody knew where she came from it was like okay and you are you know bizarre. During a recess in a moment of desperation Alice went to the the reporters that were all hanging out to make a plea to the public she was like you, you know, on the verge of tears. Her voice was all like shaky and sad. And she pretty much just spoke directly to the public. She was like, I've come here to make an appeal. I'd like anybody that lived in my neighborhood

to come forward. Anybody that lived in my neighborhood who might know something about what happened on the night of July 13th or the morning of July 14th. Anybody that saw something or didn't see something but I'm asking for help. I didn't kill my children. I swear I didn't kill them end quote. That was a direct quote. I know but she was like pleading. Alice had been ordered to not do any press interviews. The judge warned her that if she did that again her bail would be revoked and she would go right back to jail so she needed to shut the fuck up is what he keeps telling her over and over

again it sucks then the next day another surprise witness appeared this time it was the prosecution's side that was worried by this testimony the witness witness was a man named Marvin Weinstein. He worked as a travel agency manager. He told the court that he had been walking on 153rd street in like the wee hours, the night of the murders. That specific night he had been visiting a friend and he was with his wife son daughter and dog oh what yes

he went on to say that at the time his son was three and a half and his daughter was two years old and that he had carried his little girl in his arms wrapped in a blanket and had his wife and the dog walking and it's like could this be the people that Sophie and Tina DeVita, whatever the hell her name is, could have seen that night? Are these the people? I'm just saying. I mean, he was like, yeah, I was there. That was me.

Alice's attorneys were torn if she should take the stand in her own defense again. I mean, they knew that usually juries held it against defendants when they remained silent. But the last time that she was on the stand, they just focused on her sex life and they would probably do it again. So her attorneys went to the judge

and asked that she not be questioned about her sexual history because it had nothing to do with the murders. And the judge denied this request. I know, fuck this judge. So they decide it would be best if Alice did not take the stand. They're like, girl, you sit with this one out. You've dealt with a lot.

Instead, Alice's team wanted to focus on discrediting Sophie and Joseph's statements. So they asked the jury to question Sophie's claims, pointing out that her story had changed dramatically from her original letter to detectives. Then they pointed out a doctor's report that said Sophie had neurotic tendencies to subconscious exaggeration. If I were on the jury, I'd be like,

what the fuck does that mean? Really? They asked the jury to like really think about the statement that Sophie could hear people talking in normal tones from 200 feet away, you know, saying that they don't need a doctor to explain what kind of hearing it would take for someone to actually be able to hear the conversation clearly as she did. It had been six years of torture all because of that letter that Sophie had sent. Prosecutors came back and told the jury she doesn't have the courage to stand up here and tell the world she killed her daughter. It was very dramatic alice stood up she was crying and yelled back like because i didn't kill my daughter the jury came back with a verdict and baby girl it

was harsh alice crimmons was found guilty of first degree murder and Eddie Jr.'s death and first degree manslaughter when it came to Missy's death. When the verdict came out the courtroom absolutely lost it. Lots of tears and upset and of course poor Alice when she heard the verdict she just tapped out. She was crying yelling like dear God no please, please, like, why? The second trial of Alice Crimmins had ended, and she went to prison for what everyone assumed would be the rest of her life. She had served more than two years when she was released in 1973. The Supreme Court in Brooklyn reversed her conviction in Eddie Jr.'s case,

ruling that there was no evidence of murder in the first place. They also reversed the manslaughter conviction in Missy's case. Remember the prosecutor's claim? They said she didn't have the courage to stand up there to tell the world that she killed her daughter. Now this was suggesting that Alice was admitting guilt and they were like because of this comment like this she they got her out of it is what I'm saying and mind you you have the right to not testify you don't have to testify and it shouldn't be used against you just when she thought like things were okay February 1975 the court of appeals upheld the reversal of the murder conviction, great, but reinstated the manslaughter conviction and sent her back to prison.

Yes, back to prison she goes. That was not the end of the saga. This is like such, so much drama, how exhausting. In 1997, a New York tabloid broke the story that Alice was participating in a work release program. And I mean, there are other inmates who do the program as well, but you know, she's gonna be the one who is reported on.

She was allowed every other weekend free. She was also given permission to marry her boyfriend, Anthony Grace. It was said that he would visit her at least once a week in prison. But the two, they got married and newspapers showed photos of the newlywed with her husband on a beautiful yacht and they're like, the newlyweds and like, how dare she? She still couldn't like avoid the public eye

and their disapproval of everything she was doing even some new york politicians stepped in and made comments to the media that she should not be paroled is gross always by men in november 1977 after being in prison for more than three years alice was released on parole what yeah? Yeah. Well, Alice, she's angry. She wants vindication. But her appeal for a new trial was denied and the courts ruled that she could appeal no more. No more appealing for you. They're like, end it. Look, Alice was convicted of murder, yes, but many had the question, why? Regardless, Alice was labeled as Alice Crimmins, the child killer. Never labeled as someone who maybe was innocent, as a mom, as a person.

She was always like a fucking tramp. It was just like so lame. She had been found guilty by the press and public way before she ever went to trial many believed that she was on trial for again her sex life rather than murder and there was never any evidence that actually tied her to the crimes and unfortunately nobody actually tried to solve the murders. There were no other suspects considered. Nope. The detective work was laughable.

The witnesses were unreliable. There were so many unanswered questions when it comes to this case. Like, it's, huh? Like, why wasn't Edmund investigated more? Why didn't he at least get arrested for taking his pants off and showing kids his ding-a-ling it's not funny but you know what the fuck was that about like this dude was creepy and he obviously was up to something reading about polygraph tests before you take a polygraph test i mean you can

say you want to do like a little bit of research but why didn't they try to find the owner of that one fingerprint they found at the scene? So many questions, no answers. Alice tried to spend her life staying out of the public eye with her husband, Anthony. But the deaths of like little Eddie and Missy remain a puzzle, a complete mystery, and technically is unsolved to this day. Look, here are my closing thoughts here. a puzzle, a complete mystery, and technically is unsolved to this day. Look, here are my closing thoughts here. I just was interested in the story

because it was obvious from the very beginning. I mean, even the detective said, like, "'I don't like her, I don't like her,' you know? "'And he went right after her.' And I just feel like, I don't know." Like, what's more sad is that it was never about the children you just heard how it went it was all about hating on Alice and like what about the kids didn't anyone want to solve

that mystery oh my gosh it's sickening it's so sickening and where was the evidence that linked Alice to the crimes like what the fuck was wrong with these people I don't know what happened to Edmund afterwards because no reporting was like done on that guy. No one cared. I hope like Alice Crimmins found peace and closure and honestly, fuck these people. I'm sorry she had to go through that.

Just crazy, I mean, I do the show Dark History and it's kind of similar. Like there's a lot of little witch hunts throughout history and this is another example of that where it's just like oh woman pretty bad sex bad like it's just stupid it's so dumb we're over it so stop anyways i love you guys um let me know who you want me to talk about next time but other than that i hope you have a good rest of your day. You make good choices. Please be safe out there.

And I'll be seeing you guys later. Goodbye.