Murder, Mystery & Makeup - INTERNET MURDERS - An MMM Compilation Episode

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

Hi Friends! I had an idea. Inspired by many of your comments where you mention that you put my videos on in the background to fall asleep to - I decided to put something together for you. This is a Murder, Mystery and Makeup Compilation. A video over 3 hours long all about a deadly theme tying all of these murderous stories together - twisted INTERNET-RELATED MURDERS AND CRIMES. Sweet dreams! lol. Also, I sometimes talk about my Good Reads in the show. So here's the link if you want to check it out. IDK. lol: https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/139701263-bailey ________ FOLLOW ME AROUND  Tik Tok: https://bit.ly/3e3jL9v Instagram: http://bit.ly/2nbO4PR Facebook: http://bit.ly/2mdZtK6 Twitter: http://bit.ly/2yT4BLV Pinterest: http://bit.ly/2mVpXnY Youtube: http://bit.ly/1HGw3Og Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3cC0V9d Discord: https://discord.gg/BaileySarian RECOMMEND A STORY HERE: [e-mail]  Business Related Emails: [e-mail] Business Related Mail:  Bailey Sarian  4400 W. Riverside Dr., Ste 110-300  Burbank, CA 91505 ________ Feel great with meals that fit your Spring schedule and make the season even more delicious. Go to https://www.hellofresh.com/makeup10fm now to get 10 Free Meals with a Free Item For Life. One per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box, new subscribers only, varies by plan. Get the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, at https://www.selectquote.com/makeup.

It's the Lexus Demonstrator event at Don Valley North Lexus. During May, Don Valley North Lexus has rates as low as 1.9%, with savings up to $9,000 on select remaining 2024 Demonstrator models, while supplies last. See DonValleyNorthLexus.com for details, or visit them at 7200 Victoria Park, just north of Steeles. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. At 7200 Victoria Park, just north of Steeles. At Don Valley North, Don Valley North for Lexus. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. Hi friends, how are you today? Well, I hope you're having a wonderful day so far.

My name is Bailey Sarian and I'd like to welcome you to the Murder Mystery Makeup Podcast. Now, some of you guys are always telling me that you like falling asleep while listening to my videos or podcast episodes. So, you know, I was thinking, let me put something together for you, okay? So here is a compilation of episodes. It's almost four hours long that has a very murder mystery makeup theme. Today's compilation is all about internet related murders. Today's episode features some of the most popular videos on my YouTube channel and they're all about the wild, weird, and terrifying things that can happen online. Listen, of course, I put together like the truly unhinged stories all together for you. There's the case of Cherie Miller, known as the first murder as a result of catfishing. Oh yes, oh yes.

Then the truly chilling story of how the internet legend Slender Man ended in unimaginable violence between friends. This other one, John Robinson, I don't know if you remember this one, okay, but this was the internet master, okay? He was a serial killer who lured victims through online chat rooms. That story was creepy and it kept me up. And then we have the little shithead Grant Amato, who's recently been in the

news. This dumbass, okay? Well, he is a guy who did the unthinkable okay to pay for his cam girl obsession pathetic loser and then Gilberto Valli now this guy he was a police officer with a cannibal fetish who found his community online but with him he's different because was he really guilty of any crimes? It was an interesting story, to say the least. So this is for you, my little sleepers, okay? Go memes, go to bed, listen, sit back, relax, and just let me tell you these really creepy internet cases to soothe you into a peaceful slumber. Oh, I love you so much. Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoy today's episode. The World Wide Web. We're on it, baby, right? And today's story is considered to be like, by most sources, to be the very first

internet-based murder. And I think most of us here, we know what the World Wide Web is capable of. It could be great, right? Fun, educational, and other things. And then the other side where it can be really dark and just unfortunate, really. Anyhow, I'd like to say that

we, the people, are a little bit more savvier now in 2023, you would hope, right? We've progressed a little bit. But back in 1999, oh, the internet was still oh so new. And the things that unfold between a couple of strangers that we're talking about today, twistier than you can even imagine. This is the part where I would name something that has a lot of layers to it. Like the layered t-shirts you wore in high school. So many layers to it. There's just so many layers to today's story

and there's so much to uncover and it's kind of confusing. So I'm setting it up in a way that's kind of not confusing. Okay? Great. I didn't do my skincare today so let me put something on. So today's story actually begins not with murder but with someone unaliving themselves. So a little trigger warning here. It goes downhill very quick. So we're gonna start off on February 11th, 2000 in Odessa, Missouri. A woman named Lynn Llewellyn discovers the body of her husband's cousin, 39-year-old Jerry Cassaday,

in the basement apartment where he lived on their property. So this guy, Jerry, lived with his cousin in the basement apartment. Got it? Great. So Lynn and her family hadn't seen Jerry for like a couple of days at this point, which might seem odd, right? But it wasn't like unusual to them. Whenever Jerry

had been upset or needed to work things out, like in his head, he would go down to his basement apartment and like just hole up there. Many would say that he was struggling with just a bit of depression because like the previous years had been so rough for Jerry. Like he had been going through it. But as the days were going on at the house, Lynn started to notice a rather odd smell happening, you know? So that's when Lynn goes down the stairs and sees Jerry sitting in his big armchair. And she's like calling out to him, but he's not responding. The armchair was turned around. It was like facing the window away from the door.

So she couldn't see his face. So that's when she walks up to him and she notices when she's getting closer and closer, the smell was getting stronger and stronger. And that's when she, you know, gets close enough to see that Jerry was dead. He like died from a self-inflicted situation, you know? Oh, sad, sad, self-inflicted situation. YouTube doesn't like it when you say anything. They're like, you can't say this, this, this.

And it's like, but honey, that's what happened. That's what happened. It's sad. Jerry's family and like, but honey, that's what happened. That's what happened. It's sad. Jerry's family and friends, understandably, very devastated. They really could not wrap their heads around what led Jerry to do this, right? So it's just sad. And the days go by and then it comes down to the family now having to like clean out Jerry's room, clean out all of his stuff, you know. So they're cleaning out their room. And while they're cleaning out Jerry's room,

underneath his bed, they come across a black briefcase. And bitch, when they open up this briefcase, it was a treasure trove of secrets. And this is where like things really start to unravel. Spring is in the air. Hi. The sun is out. Buns are out. But so is the pollen. And I cannot stop sneezing. Okay. I don't know about you, but allergies take so much out of me. It's so bad this year. I'm sneezing, stuffy, eyes are itchy. I'm tired. It's like 2 p.m. I'm like, oh no. So going to the grocery store and cooking dinner from scratch,

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Who's Jerry and what the hell's going on? What happened to freaking Jerry? Jerry was born in Kansas City, Missouri in 1960. He was the youngest of four boys. And pretty much anyone who talked about him just really adored him. His mother would talk about how competitive he was with his older brothers and how they loved to go fishing and like spend time together as family does. So a pretty normal family upbringing.

And then as he got older, Jerry decided that he wanted to become a police officer and it had been a somewhat promising career for him. Like he becomes a police officer and he does really well. He moves up the chain pretty quickly. He first got like promoted to being a lieutenant Like he becomes a police officer and he does really well. He moves up the chain pretty quickly. He first got like promoted to being a lieutenant and then he moved on to becoming a homicide detective. Career wise, I mean, Jerry was doing great.

Also in his personal life, it was going pretty well. Jerry was married to a dispatcher at the department that they both worked at and her name was Barbara. The two of them, they would go on to have like three kids together. Two of the kids were from Barbara's previous marriage, and then they both, Jerry and Barbara, had one son together. Overall, things were good. I mean, it was simple, middle-class living, just living a good life, you know? Well, things were good until 1998. You see in 1998, Jerry was 37 years old.

And at this point he was still working at the police department or for the police department. And at some point, Jerry like noticed that something fishy is going on within the sheriff's department. Like he had proof that high ranking officials had falsified documents in a murder investigation. Jerry saw this.

He saw what was really going on and he decided to say something. He spoke up. He went to the higher ups and he became a whistleblower of sorts, you know. See something? He was like, I'm going to say something. And he did. Well, Jerry was correct. I mean, this was going on and it ends up leading to like a bigger investigation.

But in the end, the officers who falsified the documents, they do get in trouble. They got fired from their position. And at first you're like, oh, way to go, Jerjer. You know, like standing up for what is right, calling these people out, doing the right thing. Great. But unfortunately, it was great for everyone but Jerry, I guess, because all of his coworkers and stuff had turned on him for doing the right thing. He ended up getting like demoted because they couldn't just outright fire him, right? They had to do the legal way, they being his employer, right? They can't just fire you. They have to have a reason for firing you. So like they end up demoting him, writing him up for like really petty, stupid stuff. And then eventually he ends up getting fired. And of course the department would be like, oh no,

he was late five times or something. But really, Jerry was like, it's because I ratted these guys out. Like, I know that's why. And he gets fired. So when all of this happens, Jerry, he's devastated. He loved this job. He even said that, like, he really enjoyed the recognition he received. He was a part of something much bigger in life, you know, like doing the right thing. And like, it gave him a sense of purpose. And now because of this moral obligation, he felt to rat those guys out. He lost everything. Could you imagine like fighting that demon? Like, look, I did the right thing. And in the end, it bit me in the ass. That's why it's so hard for people to do the right thing in these big places,

because they do this shit to you. They do this shit. That's a dark history story in itself, huh? But that's not why we're here. Okay, so this happens. And Jerry, he's not doing well at this point. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm sad, but he still has bills to pay. So he needs to find another job. And he ends up finding a job at a local Harrah's Casino. I guess they had just built and like opened up a new one not far from where Jerry was living at. And he got a job as like a security officer there. I guess he really enjoyed this position.

He did kind of get into a bit of a party phase. Like he was really trying to drown all of his sorrows and working at a casino, probably not the best place if you're, you know, struggling with drinking, gambling, drugs, anything, because it was all available for him. But after some time of being at Harris Casino, he was like, you know what, I need to change a pace. So he put in a request to be transferred to Reno, Nevada, and they ended up doing so. They transferred him. And Reno, baby, let me tell you all about Reno. I've never been to Reno. I don't know what it's like. But I've seen Reno 911, so it's like that, I'm sure. Anyway, so Jerry, he moves there with his whole family.

And once again, they're doing pretty all right. He's working at a casino and he's working as like a dealer at the table, you know? And I guess he's making very good money. But Jerry was really struggling with things. He started drinking a lot. He starts partying more, drinking more. This just leads to everything going downhill for him pretty quick. His wife doesn't want to put up with it anymore.

So she ends up leaving with her two kids and going back to Missouri. And she just like leaves them, you know? So after this, Jerry really just has a string of bad luck for a long time. Like he gets in trouble with the law a couple of times. In the end though, his family, you know, they could see that Jerry was struggling. And that's when they're like, hey, you should probably just move back to Missouri, right? Just like let it go. Reno's not for you. You can move back in, move actually in with your cousin because he was like more than welcome to let him stay. And then that's when he moves in with the cousin.

And that leads us to his suicide. So after Jerry commits suicide, you know, they have to do the cleanup, which falls on Jerry's older brother, Mike, to clean out his apartment, like I had mentioned at the beginning. That part's gotta suck, man. But while he's gathering up all of Jerry's things, that's when he makes that little crazy discovery.

That's when he finds that black briefcase underneath Jerry's bed. On top of the briefcase there are three letters taped to it and all these letters are addressed to like his family members. I guess they were essentially suicide notes. These were like really organized, very highly organized. One of the envelopes was addressed to Mike, his brother, and written next to it in bold letters, it said, do not open alone, with like lines under it. Like do not open alone.

Now I can't speak for you guys, but I know for me personally, I would probably open it anyways and pretend I didn't later, but Jerry's brother, Mike, he knew better. Jerry, again, former homicide detective, if it said, or if he said, do not open this alone, Mike would be like, you know, hands up, all right.

I won't do it, I'll follow the rules, you convinced me. So Jerry's family gets an attorney to make sure, you know, they're all protected, no matter what they find in there. There are those three letters that are addressed to three different people. In them are his confessions. Through the letters, Jerry is able to explain

why he ended his life, but also confess his ultimate sin. His ultimate sin being that three months prior to Jerry dying, Jerry had actually committed a murder. He killed a man in Michigan by the name of Bruce Miller. Our Jer, like this is what? He would never, he would never. So this was like just, what? He killed somebody?

Yeah, so we'll come back to this, but now we're gonna go over, we're gonna hop, skip, skadoodle right on over to Flint, Michigan on the night of November 8th, 1999. Bruce Miller, he worked in the General Motors plant in Flint, Michigan, and he worked there for like ever until all of them closed down, you know? But he also had a passion for just like tinkering with stuff, working on cars, building, and taking apart machinery. You know those people, they're very handsy.

They're very handsy people. They like to tinker, they like to do. He was one of those. So Bruce, he actually owned his own like junkyard, which was like his own personal Disney world. Well, he was working over at the yard on the night of November 8th when he gets a phone call. Oh, yes.

He gets a phone call. Bring, bring, bring. Hello. It's his wife, Cherie. So she's calling him. It's like the end of the night. She's like, hey, can you bring home a pizza for dinner? You know?

Great. I'll do that. Click. So that you end up hanging up the phone. And then someone comes out of freaking nowhere. Shoots Bruce. Leaving no evidence, no trace, no footprint, no fingerprint, no little piece of hair, nothing in sight.

Well, this case had been ongoing, but now three months later and a ton of miles apart, Jerry's suicide note on his briefcase said that Bruce Miller's murder had been staged. That Jerry had traveled to Michigan with the sole purpose of executing Bruce. What? I know, just go with me on this. It's a journey, not a race. Now we're going to do one more jump to Bruce's wife, Cherie Kittley. So Cherie was at home, obviously just got off the phone with Bruce while she was waiting for him to come home with some pizza, when instead the police officers show up to the door to deliver the really bad news that

her husband had been shot and murdered. And Cherie, obviously, devastated. She was on the floor in hysterics. You know, who would do this? Who would kill her husband in cold blood? She didn't know it was this Jerry guy yet. So Cherie, which is such a cute name. Cherie, I love that name. It's a bummer she's an awful bitch. She ruined it. Anyway, Cherie, she was born and raised in Flint, Michigan in 1971. She was born, kind of like everybody in this freaking story, born into just a very typical suburban like home life situation, you know? Of course, on the outside, it looked perfect, happy, bleep, blah, blue. But on the inside, I guess it was also not the greatest.

Cherie's mom was not around a lot. She was pretty absent. And when she was around, like there would be different men coming and going. She always had to have a man in her life, you know? One of those. But sadly, a lot of times when you're growing up in this situation,

there are people coming and going all the time. A lot of the times it can lead to some form of abuse. So it's safe to say that her upbringing was not ideal, right, pretty rough. As she got older, she started to seek love in all the wrong places, which led Miss Cherie with three kids by her mid-20s, which is a pretty rough start. So she has three kids, she's in her mid twenties,

she's living in Flint. There are not a lot of different like job opportunities for her out there. Oh, also she was going through a divorce. I couldn't really find that much information about this divorce, but she seemed to get married a lot and divorced pretty quickly.

I think this was like her third or second, not even sure, whatever. It's not part of the story, really. So what we do know is that Shireen needs money and she's working like some little jobs here and there. For a time, she was like working at a nursing home. And then also on top of that, she was selling Mary Kay products, you know, Mary Kay. But at the end of the day, she needed like a steady income. Okay. So that's when she ends up getting a job as a bookkeeper at Bruce. Remember Bruce? Bruce's Junkyard.

When Bruce and Sheree first met, Bruce was like 47 and Sheree was like 27. I think there was a 20 year age difference. But despite their age gap, the two of them just really hit it off and became close friends. But Sheree seemed to be very infatuated with this man. She would go around and tell different people that she really liked how Bruce was nothing like the men she had dated in the past, you know? He had his stuff together. Hello? He was a business owner. She was impressed. Cherie said in like a later interview that she was the one who actually pursued Bruce and it worked because Cherie like shortly after they met like I think it was maybe like a month two months

Cherie was moving in with Bruce she moved quick and like it was again just a few like a month or two after and it wasn't just Cherie mind you it was Cherie plus her three kids moving in. So they move in. And according to Cherie, Bruce really took her kids in and he became like a loving stepfather figure to her children. Now, right before Cherie moved in with her new boo, do you remember the Montel Williams show? She was on the Montel Williams show? She was on the Montel Williams show. Now, I don't know how to say this because some people say she went on this strictly for like attention and whatnot. And some people say she went on with like a greater purpose.

She went on the Montel Williams show because her child had been a victim of abuse and she was trying to spread awareness about child abuse. And she like told her whole story about her son being abused and whatnot. And then she moved in with Bruce. And the part that was like kind of weird was like, she didn't even tell her new husband, Bruce, that she was going on the show or that she went on the show and that it was going to air on television. Like, wouldn't you mention that, right? Or like

even mention what was going, it's just, it adds really nothing. Well, it could add to the story because if she did go on it for attention, it makes sense, the coming parts. But maybe, but I don't know. And I don't want to discredit her child being abused, you know, but she had a little cameo on Montel Williams. Dude, Montel Williams was a shit though. Oh, I miss all that. The daytime talk show sitch. Montel raised me. And Sally. And Ricky. And Jenny Jones. And Oprah.

Again, moving fast here. In April of 1999, Bruce and Cherie, they run off to Las Vegas, baby, and they get married. Cherie would be Bruce's fourth wife. He had been married, obviously, for other times. But he always told people around him that he loved being married slash getting married. So he just liked it and like good for Bruce. He wasn't alone there, you know, this would be Cherie's third marriage. So that's good. Should work out. Either way, Bruce was incredibly supportive of her and it was said that he like really loved her kids. He had money and supported her career,

whatever she wanted to do. And he also bought her a computer to help her better sell her Mary Kay products. She could reach a much wider audience that way. But that computer, it opened up a whole can of worms. And that can of worms was called America Online. You've got mail. Remember AOL?

Yeah. So it's the 90s. Well, it's the late 90s, early 2000s. AOL is everything. Okay, we know this, we live this, we are this. Thank you. Well, on AOL, you can access a bunch of different chat rooms on all sorts of different topics.

There was book chat, girl chat, boy chat, teen chat, BDSM chat, cat chat. There was a chat for everything. And anytime you would go into one of these chat rooms, it wouldn't take long for a 69blondie4u420 to enter the room. You know that screen name. 69blonde4u420,

6969kittycatmeow420, 6969 69. There's always a 69 in these damn screen names. Anyhow, so it wouldn't take long for Ms. Cherie, the newlywed Cherie, was a really big fan of these chat rooms. You know, instead of using the interwebs to help her sell Mary Kay products,

she instead like found herself just spending most of her time jumping around from chat room to chat room. And she really found it entertaining to just flirt with people, right? And chat rooms really gave people the opportunity to just kind of be whoever they wanted to be, act completely different and live a completely different internet life.

Well, Cherie, she had a ton of different screen names, like a ton. They were all described as quote unquote sexy, but when you look at them, they're really quite silly. Like one of her screen names was quote, "'I want to be laid'," end quote. It was just right to the point, you know? So, I want to be laid.

So, just cutting straight to the chase. Well, she would end up spending most of her time flirting with randoms on the computer, even at the work computer, which to be fair, I was really unclear if it was the same computer, like if they had one at home and in the office, or if it was just the one in the office. Either way, she was using the computer to just really have dirty talk with a lot of different people. I know you're like, well, what about her husband, Bruce? No offense. He was a much older gentleman, you know?

So he had really no idea what was going on. He thought she was doing bookkeeping and selling her products, you know? She's over there doing numbers stuff. So it was easy for her to keep this from him. But this whole new internet world was just a total freedom for Miss Cherie, you know? She could be whoever she wanted to be. And to her,

it was just an addicting, erotic free-for-all. She would flirt with just about anyone who sent her a message in the chat, and she was having fun while doing it. So as these relationships online progressed, she started sending like photos of herself in lingerie or just doing sexual things to herself, to different people she was talking to. She also recorded herself on a camcorder doing, you know, things to herself, you know, and she would record this on VHS tapes and then she would mail these off to different people she was talking to with this footage of herself, which there's no shame, like do what you want right? But then again she's married so I'm not trying to shame but at the same time I'm judging because of where we are today obviously. It doesn't go right. In later interviews Cherie would say that having these chats and whatnot was

freeing but it was very addicting. The attention she was getting was like a high. It was never enough. She wanted more. She wanted more. She wants someone new. She The attention she was getting was like a high. It was never enough. She wanted more. She wanted more. She wants someone new. She wanted, it was just never, it's never enough. Okay, listen, listen, Linda, listen. You know, if true crime has taught me anything, it's that when someone dies unexpectedly

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Oh, circling back to Jer. Jerry and Cherie, they meet in a chat room. They're messaging back and forth and they are talking a lot. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of messages and emails were sent between the two of them. But the two just really connected. They really liked each other. Jerry seemed to be comfortable enough to open up to Cherie about his recent struggles in life, like his divorce, his job, just everything. And Cherie would be on the other side, messaging back like words of encouragement

and trying to motivate him to just be better and happy and blah, blah, blah. And she would also motivate Jerry by flirting with him and like sending him provocative images of herself. Cause that motivates people. I mean, it does. Look, getting these sexy messages made Jerry feel good about himself.

I mean, he was coming out of his hole a little bit. I mean, most guys aren't gonna have a bad day if they get to see some titties, you know? So these words of encouragement from Cherie and the titty pics just were really doing it for him. He was excited. So everyone lies a little bit on the internet, especially during this time. So Cherie was telling Jerry that she was like super wealthy.

She owned a bunch of different nursing homes throughout Flint. And that she had been currently going through some lawsuits, which would most likely be resulting in like a major payout for her. Which none of this was true, but she's telling him that. Then she goes on to tell Jerry, like, I could help you financially. And he's getting excited because this might be his way out of his current situation. Mind you, when he's having this conversation with Cherie, he's in Reno. It's like after his wife left him. Forgot to say that. So it's like easy to talk to somebody who isn't your next door neighbor, right? Like he states away

from her. So she's having some fun. She doesn't really think anything of it, according to her. I'm in the process of growing out my eyebrows, so just don't judge, okay? So after telling Jerry that she's wealthy and all that, I mean, Jerry's hooked. He's in. He's all in baby. I mean, she's basically fulfilling every want this man could have. She has money, time, whatever. You know, like Cherie said that they would write these long fairy tales to each other about their love story and just fantasize and talk dirty to one another. They were both just to each other about their love story and just fantasize and talk dirty to one another. They were both just doing their thing. They were all in. Geri and Sheree have been talking for quite some time

and she makes a plan to go visit him in real life. Mind you, this was literally one week, one week after she married Bruce. So yeah. Well, she, Cherie, ends up telling her husband that she's going to Reno because they're having some kind of like Mary Kay convention or something in Reno. He believes her.

Why would he question her? She ends up just leaving her kids. Remember she has kids? Yeah. She leaves them with Bruce for the weekend and she heads off to Reno. So Cherie and what's his name? Jerry. They had done like a little bit of pre-planning. Well, of course. They were going to do like a little bit of role play. So when Cherie would walk up, because he would be working

at the blackjack table, and Cherie was going to walk up to the table where Jerry was dealing, and she would be like dressed all sexy or whatever. She was gonna pretend that she had no idea who he was, you know, and be like, how do you play black? Hit me, you know? So that's what their plan was to do a little role play. I'm not sure if she was supposed to win or lose,

but either way, that's what they did, hot. I don't know the ending of the storyline, but great. But one thing that was noted was that like Jerry went around the casino where he worked and like introduced Cherie to everybody. I mean, and it was obvious to everyone who worked with him that this man was in like full blown love. They ended up staying the night together, have their romantic affair for the weekend, and then Cherie goes back home.

The two of them continue their relationship through email. In my mouth. She sends like many more sexy images of herself to Jerry and he is just loving this woman, right? Jerry even calls his mom a handful of times and tells her like how much he's loving her. And it was really intense. The two of them were in their own little internet worlds, you know?

Cherie would change her AOL screen name to like Jerry's Fool. And then Jerry would change his to Cherie's Fool. So it was pretty serious. To be fair, Cherie is obviously into him as well, as much as she would later deny, but like, she's into him, you know? Obviously, by the way, she's talking to him. And plus, she loved the attention she was receiving from this man. And they just keep continuing, and they decide that they should meet more often. So Cherie would continue telling her husband that, you know, she needed to go out to Reno for Mary Kay conventions or meetings.

And he just goes along with it because again, the internet's so new, like this isn't even crossing his mind that this is happening because nobody even knows this can happen yet. This is, you know, you get it. Great, I'm glad we get it. Everyone gets it, we all get it.

Bailey, we get it. Cherie and Bruce had only been married for like a few months at this point. But Cherie saw this as an opportunity to really escape her old life. Now that she was married to Bruce, she actually had money to go on these trips, to escape her kids, to escape home life, you know, and just live this really exciting different life, which is pretty fucked up for Bruce and her kids,

but she was on one. But a few months into the steamy affair across state lines, Cherie tells Jerry that she's pregnant with his child. She does it like through email, first of all. I just don't feel like that's how you do a pregnancy announcement is through email, but whatever, who am I to judge? But she does.

And Jerry receives the news that she's pregnant and he is thrilled. I mean, he really wanted to have a family again. And it felt like it was his chance to get his old life back in a way. And with this new woman, it was a new opportunity to, like, start over, have a child, be a family. And what I'm getting at is that he's 100% on board. So Cherie would send emails of like a picture of the pregnancy test or a picture of the sonogram. She also sent a photo of herself with a little baby bump,

which if you see the photo, it's literally just her like with a food baby. She's like pushing it out and she's like, pregs. And you're like, okay girl, I've had that same burrito. Sure. Anyway, so again, Jerry's just living for this and he is thrilled. Tell me that's not a food baby.

Cherie, her little burrito baby. Give me a break. So as the days pass, AIM comes through. Remember? Instant message. Great. And it's to Jerry from Cherie. And she tells him over the chat that Bruce, her ex-lover, or the guy that she's living with, I'm not sure how she presented Bruce to Jerry, but she tells Jerry that Bruce had found out about the affair and in turn it led him to becoming like very violent and that he ended up like beating the crap out of her and that she lost the baby because of it. Now after the two have this like heartbreaking 8 a.m chat message session Cherie

sends Jerry photos through email showing like her stomach and I believe her back. It might just be her stomach, but it has like bruise marks all over them, which later you find out that it wasn't bruising. She used her Mary Kay makeup to create some bruising. When Jerry finds this out, devastated, devastated. It absolutely broke him. And he ends up responding to Cherie, telling her, like, no one is going to get away with this. No one is going to be allowed to do these things to you. And I'm going to stop him. It was essentially like that with, like, all caps. He was angry. Jerry, he doesn't know Bruce at all. Only just, like, the little information that Cherie shares. And Cherie always seemed to like change her story

about Bruce, but she told Jerry that Bruce was not a good man, he was abusive, and she just made all these wild accusations about him and that she couldn't leave. But then she tells Jerry that Bruce was part of the mafia. Yeah, she tells Jerry that he's pretty well known or really high up in like the mafia world. And because of this, like she's scared she can't do anything because he'll kill her. So she tells him that he's like super high up in the mafia, especially in Michigan. And he operates like

money laundering schemes and that he was dangerous and violent with her and pretty much anyone else that he met. That his salvage yard was just a front for his mafia dealings and that every day Cherie was not with Jerry, it was because Bruce was keeping her on lockdown. But Jerry, if you remember, has a background in the police force, right? And it's like, who is more of an enemy to a police officer than organized criminals? You know, like, so what I'm getting at is that Jerry was triggered. He was getting all worked up.

He was ready to help in any way that he could. Plus he was just angry that this man Bruce had killed his unborn child. So Jerry was becoming obsessed. But most of all, like he just wanted to be the white knight, the one to like save Cherie from this awful situation and this awful person. So Cherie and Jerry, they kind of let things cool off for a bit, right? Tensions are kind of high. People are angry. People are in their feelings. Weeks later, Cherie writes to Jerry via email to share some good news once again.

This time she's pregnant again. She's pregnant again. She writes Jerry a little email. "'Dear babe, I'm pregnant again." This time she wasn't pregnant with one baby. She was pregnant with twins. Twins. Yeah.

Are you catching what Cherie's putting down? If you haven't yet, she's not pregnant. She's just messing with this fucking guy and it's sick. So now she's pregnant with twins. Wow. Isn't that weird? They haven't seen each other in weeks, but okay. Must be like some kind of miracle.

Maybe it's the twins of Jesus' past. I don't know. But she's pregnant with them. Anyways, Jerry, once again, poor guy. He's really excited. He wants to be a father. He did question how did this happen, but he really didn't push on it too much

because honestly, he was just thrilled. He found it a little odd, you know, how closely it came after the miscarriage, but that was as far as, he really didn't push, you know? So once again, Jerry is happy and he's motivated to start his new life with Cherie. But then November 5th, 1999, Jerry opens an email labeled from Bruce.

Mm, hmm. Apparently it was in all caps, so you know he's pissed. And it said, quote, Cherie is growing fat with two bastards in her. She has decided she doesn't like the excess weight and is going to get an abortion, end quote. Okay, you know, Jerry rightfully freaks out a little bit. I mean, this is his woman, his woman.

He's all upset. He starts calling the different hospitals in Flint, Michigan, and he is calling Cherie's cell phone, but he's not getting an answer. So he writes her that he's worried, and he gets a response the next day from an unknown screen name that said, quote, this is Cherie. I'm going away for a few days. I will contact you sometime next week. And then there was another email that was from Bruce that said, quote, in all caps, of course, well, Jerry, she told me to let you know she would be home soon. I think the abortion went fine. She sounded like she felt better knowing she wasn't having any more kids. Thank you for making my relationship with my wife better. I don't know what the fuck is going on.

Okay, I don't, but this woman is bored. Okay. Now, if all of this seems like complete buffoonery to you, well, I am here to inform you that it is indeed buffoonery. Ms. Cherie was lying to Jerry about everything. She was lying about being pregnant. She was lying about Bruce being abusive towards her. She was lying about being pregnant. She was lying about Bruce being abusive towards her. She was lying about the emails coming from Bruce's account

because it was in fact, Cherie sending those emails. The photos of her with the pregnant belly were literally just photos of Cherie pushing her stomach out. The bruises on her stomach from the abuse received by Bruce. Again, it was all just makeup. Everything she had told Jerry was a really big lie. Bruce, her husband, again, no idea what was going on, but he also had no idea about Jerry or even how the internet worked. I don't even think he knew how to turn on the computer, really. He was just minding his own business, working in his yard, existing.

You know, like, damn, leave this guy alone, Cherie. Poor Bruce, well, and Jerry, but like Bruce was just like, la-di-fuck-a-da, going about his day. He doesn't even know. Okay, so you know this, I know this, but Jerry doesn't know this yet. He doesn't know.

He doesn't know that we know that, what they know that, everything about them knowing, he doesn't know. He doesn't know that we know that they know that, everything about them knowing, he doesn't know. I know, I know you know that I know that I know, we know that Cherie is a little fucking idiot. I hate this bitch. Women who want attention, I shouldn't make an assumption about women who want

attention because you could say that about me. I'm on the fucking internet, look at me. Anyway, to make matters worse, Cherie added fuel to this damn fire. She sends Jerry a follow-up email going on to say that she did not have an abortion, that Bruce was lying. But what really happened was that she was quote, "'gang raped' by Bruce's friends in the mafia repeatedly

in order to miscarry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She's just creating such disturbing, sick lies. I hate her. Okay, but this time, this email is the one that just sets Jerry off. I mean, he's like, you know what? She's no longer safe. Her kids aren't safe. If she gets pregnant, like he's just upset, very upset. Jerry sends Sheree a message saying that he's heading towards her. He's coming and he's on his way. And Sheree goes on to tell him like, Jerry, I'm so scared. I'm so scared. If this doesn't work, I don't know what's going to happen. He's going to kill me. me and then from there Jerry writes back like what's the fastest way into the yard is it like he's asking for directions to his Bruce's yard and then the two share emails about how much they

love each other and like I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with you sure he asked him at some point like can you really do this it's like do what do what she made to what Jerry had driven to Michigan from his new apartment in Missouri. With him, he brought a 20-gauge shotgun, and on November 8th, Jerry snuck into the offices of Bruce's salvage yard. While Jerry was making his way inside, Bruce was on the phone with Cherie, telling her he was about to leave and that he would be picking up pizza on his way home. Remember in the beginning, the pizza guy?

Obviously, Cherie was a person of interest to the police, but I guess she had a pretty solid alibi. She was at home in Bruce's house, taking care of the three kids while her husband was at work. It was pretty airtight. And on top of that, when the police went to her house that night to inform her that her husband had just been murdered, police noted that she had a quote, appropriate response, end quote. I guess she was like on the floor crying, sad, you know? So they were like, appropriate. Appropriate response, yep, noted.

Well, with nothing really connecting Cherie to the murder of Bruce, they really had their eyes set on another man. Oh, and like, I could go on forever about this in itself because they're trying to ruin this poor man's life, okay? Bruce had this old friend named John. They really wanted to pin the murder on this John guy because Bruce owed

John money. And John had got like really upset one day and said like, if he doesn't give me my money, I'm going to kill him. And like someone heard that. And then police were like, that's our guy. And they were going in on him and questioning him and bringing him in and like getting, trying to poke him until he confessed. And this guy, John, he should have gotten an attorney, but he had the mindset, if I'm innocent, then I don't need an attorney because I'm innocent, right? Which is what we all think,

but it's like, it doesn't always work that way because our system's so fucked up. It doesn't matter. But eventually, John ends up telling police that Bruce's wife, Cherie, was trouble because Cherie and John had dated at some point. I know. I know. Cherie and John had dated at some point, and he was, like, trying to tell Bruce, like, don't mess with that woman.

Don't mess with her. Like, she's trouble. Get as far away as you can from her. And, of course, he didn't listen with her. Like, she's trouble. Get as far away as you can from her. And of course, he didn't listen, Bruce. So John tells this to police. He's like, yeah, I tried telling him, like, she's no good. She's bad news.

And he wasn't able to give any type of evidence or proof or anything. But that was enough for police to go off of. Because they had nothing on this poor John guy. They were just, like, ruining his freaking life. I watched had nothing on this poor John guy. They were just like ruining his fricking life. I watched like this thing where they were questioning him and it's just sad. Cause it's like, he's innocent and he doesn't think, you know, it was just sad to watch innocent people start talking to police and they'll get you.

Next thing you know, you've admitted to something you did not do. Two days after Bruce was found dead, some locals claim that they saw Cherie at a local bar and that she seemed to be like enjoying herself just fine. There were various versions of it, but pretty much people said that she was, quote, bringing it on the dance floor. Oh, she was bringing it. Many who knew her were like, hmm, you know, it's pretty odd for someone who just lost her husband to be bringing it

so hard on the dance floor, but okay, girl. With the investigation seeming to stall out, Cherie stayed living in the home she shared with Bruce and her kids. And a few months later, this messy ass bitch, she moved in a new guy into the home. I don't know, some guy she just picked up and started seeing.

Mind you, mind you, this messy, messy woman, when she moves this guy in, like, she's still talking to Jerry. I know, it's just like, what the, like, how does she even have time for all of this? I don't know. So she now has this new guy living with her in her dead husband's house.

It's not funny. It's just, I can't believe some people, huh? But of course we're here. So what was her big mistake you ask? Well, she ghosted her hitman. She ghosted Jerry. That's where she messed up. You see, this was deeply upsetting to him.

I mean, he couldn't understand why, but this gave him time away from her to give him some sort of clarity. After he had came and he shot Bruce and then he went back home, kind of weird that he like didn't go to her house or something afterwards. They were in the same neighborhood. You think he would make a little pit stop, but he didn't.

Anyways, okay, so now that he has some time alone though, because she ghosted him, he's getting some clarity. Her lies are starting to add up. He was putting the pieces together. And for the first time, Jerry was starting to realize that Cherie, she was full shit. Okay. Oh my God, for reals though. She lied to him about everything. Now this is when like Jerry's coming to terms with the fact that he was manipulated by this woman that he thought he loved and she manipulated him into committing murder. And this seems to be the real reason that Jerry would hit rock bottom. He was basically used like a weapon to kill poor Bruce and all for what?

This sick woman's game. This sick woman's game. And like not to be rude or anything, but I'm sure that must have been extremely humiliating as well. I'm sure that must have been extremely humiliating as well. I'm sure that's humiliating. Shameful? I don't know what the word is, but right? But like also on top of that, Jerry was not a stupid man.

He knew how to gather evidence. So it turns out before he died, he went through all of his back conversations with Cherie. He laid all of them out. He printed them all. And then he went through their like chat logs, all of their emails, printed all those. Every photo she sent him, printed. Fake sonogram pregnancy test, printed. He printed everything and put it in that black briefcase under his bed. Now alongside the trove of evidence, Jerry had left his suicide note

and in it that's when he confessed to killing Bruce Miller and he even described in great detail how he had done it. Like I said earlier, like he had driven to Michigan for the express purpose of killing Bruce. In the letter he described like how he entered the salvage yard, what kind of tools he used, how he knew Bruce would be there, everything. He even shared how Cherie's lie, like deeply her lies, deeply affected him. He even wrote a letter to his mom apologizing

and saying that he loved her and that he drove and killed this man because he thought Cherie was pregnant with his babies. And that was enough to make him do that. Do you know what I'm saying? I hope you know what I'm saying. When you read like the full content of his letter, it's obvious that Jerry believed every word Cherie told him about the fake Bruce that she had made up. He genuinely thought that by killing Bruce, he was saving Cherie and his unborn children. And when you think about it like that, it's like, well, not to justify a

killing, but you know, it's like, no wonder he was so worked up and like went after Bruce. And then in his letter, his suicide note, and in all of the evidence, he said that Cherie was involved and helped set it all up. And he had all the proof and all the evidence he needed to send it to police. And he even said in the note, she will get what's coming. Love to see that. Love to see that. Michigan police were eager for Cherie's side of the story, you know? So when she was brought in for questioning, this time she wasn't acting mournful or sad or anything.

Instead, she was very defensive right off the bat. And she was just saying like, "'I can't believe you. Would they have anything to do with this?' And a lot of people noted that like, this was just not like her. She should have been crying and stuff. But if police are accusing you of like murdering someone, wouldn't you be defensive? I just didn't feel like it. I don't know. Whatever. It was noted

again that she wasn't very remorseful. These police, they like noting that kind of stuff. Not remorseful this time. But thanks to Jerry's briefcase with all those online conversations, all that hard court evidence just right there, you know? She could not deny, I mean, she could deny all she wanted, but the police actually had the letters and stuff with them, which, ooh, must be so nice. Like, oh, you didn't do it? Here, read this.

Is that you right there? I want to get laid. Is that your screen name Is that you right there? I want to get laid. Is that your screen name? That you right there? So with everything they needed, they didn't even need a confession out of her. They had all the evidence. Police were able to arrest her.

Wowzo, right? And remember this is in 1999. This is like completely new, different, wild, what? Like a lot of people people their minds were blown nobody was thinking about the fact that their online conversations could be saved and perhaps shown up in court one day it was just wild media of course was all over the shit throughout Cherie's trial she tried to feed the jury you know that she was just trying to get Jerry to leave her alone.

She's like, yeah, I had an affair with him, but like, I didn't do anything. He wouldn't leave me alone. He kept trying to talk to me. She would tell the jury that like all of her lies were attempts to get Jerry to leave her alone. Yeah, telling a man that you're pregnant, definitely gonna, gonna get them to leave you alone. Actually, in some cases, they sure do disappear, don't they? But that's what she kept going back to in court.

She was like, I was just trying to get him to leave me alone. He was just obsessed with me. He wouldn't leave me alone. What was I supposed to do? What was I, you know, it's such an eye roll. This was like the whole trial. She was like, I was trying to break up with him,

but he was so obsessed with me. So I just like, I tried and I just kept trying and like, I don't know. I'm just a sad Cherie. So yeah, it just didn't make sense to just about anybody, especially when there was so much evidence. Police were able to confirm some of what Jerry had told them in his note that Cherie had helped him plan the whole thing. They found phone records

indicating that after Bruce had been killed, Jerry used whose cell phone? Bruce. Jerry used Bruce's cell phone after he killed him to call Cherie at home. So it was like a signal they set up. He would let the phone, Cherie's phone, ring once and then hang up. And that was a signal that the two of them had agreed on, you know, that he, that the deed was done. Cherie lied some more. She's a professional liar. She thinks once again, she's going to get away with it. Like she was lying so much that you could honestly tell that she believed herself, which is not great. Not a good thing. Cherie told the court

that like Jerry was after Bruce's money and that like she just had gotten like a little carried away with it talking to strangers online. And Jerry had just gotten too tangled up in their game, you know? Like he took it too seriously and she was just having fun. One of the biggest takeaways from the evidence in Jerry's briefcase was that for so long, Jerry kept trying to convince her to leave her situation. But Cherie was very insistent that it just wouldn't work out because of the mafia. In the trial, the prosecutors, they end up reading like a bunch of her instant messages and like Jerry is trying to tell her that she should come live with him in Missouri

and that he could protect her and her children there. But Sheree responded with like, I don't wanna sit in Kansas City and become a rotten bitch knowing he's still breathing out there. I don't know, Sheree. It seems like you were a rotten bitch no matter where the location.

Thank you. So a lot of people were asking, Sheree obviously played a huge role in this, but what was the motive? Was she just playing a silly internet game? Well, apparently, and this is coming directly from Sheree, but she had done one big thing when she and Bruce first got married.

She spent all of his money. Like when she and Bruce first got married. She spent all of his money. Like when she and Bruce first got married, she maxed all of his credit cards out and whatnot. And she shopped, she had fun. And the courts were like, well, maybe that was like a little bit of motivation. It was like she was living this life that she quote unquote always wanted. I know, like that's kind of hard to prove what her motive is because what, I think it was attention and who doesn't want money? I don't know, but like she wasn't after some kind of jackpot.

She was just sick and fucking bored. Give this girl like some hobbies. How about you pay attention to your kids, Cherie? Hey, wait a minute. That's a crazy thought. Well, Cherie did end up being convicted of second degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder, separate charges that left her with a combined life sentence

on top of an additional 54 to 81 years for the murder itself. But don't get too excited because on July 16th, 2009, a federal court judge ordered Cherie's immediate release from prison on bond pending a new trial. So the courts were trying to decide if the suicide letter should have been allowed in the first trial.

Hold on, I'm trying to figure out what's my lip color here. You know what? I'm just going to put on a gloss. So there was debate whether or not the suicide note should have been even allowed into evidence in the first place. Yeah. I don't know why. I don't know why this was like a question, but it was a debate. So this goes on for like quite some time. But during this point, Sheree was out. She was out and free to do whatever the hell she wanted to do until like the new trial started. During this break that she had from prison, she was able to like reconnect with her own children for the first time, it sounds like. And she ends up getting like really attached to them.

It's a little late, Martha. I mean, Sheree, but okay. Anyways, but the courts, they end up deciding to uphold her original conviction and she ends up going back to prison, my friends. But I guess seeing her kids had a really lasting impression on her because according to her, when she was heading back to jail with her daughter, her daughter was there like to drop her off. She said she just had this switch in her brain. Yeah, they always have a switch when they go to prison, don't they? just had this switch in her brain. Yeah, they always have a switch when they go to prison, don't they? She had a switch in her brain where she realized that she was ready to drop the act for good. She was like looking at her daughter and she realized that Bruce and

Jerry's families would never be able to see them again. And even though like it's sad she's going to be behind bars, at least she would be able to see her own kids again. So when Cherie was 44, she finally admitted for the first time to arranging for her husband to be killed by Jerry. She wrote a letter to the judge who presided over her trial, and she confessed to everything. She said that she did it. She went on on how she did it and just said that she's guilty. This is a side note, but like something like this never happens. Never, never, never. Cherie even said, quote, I knew the murder was going to happen and I allowed it. I allowed a man to kill another man based on my lies and manipulation, end quote. With this, she basically

is agreeing to never appeal her conviction again. Pretty brave, pretty bold, good for her. She just realized that she belongs in prison and what she did was wrong. Many asked like, okay, why? Why did you do it in the first place, right? And Cherise said, quote, "'It was like a video game,

and each man and each relationship was another level to me, and each level was harder. It was seeing how much I could get away with, how much I could make somebody believe." And while she sounds like she's really owning her shit, the families were very about it. Many of them not fully believing her. Jerry's mom said that she felt that the letter and everything, the apology, it was inauthentic, which is totally fair, right? If Cherie had killed my own kids, I'm sure I'd be like, uh, fuck you. So, yeah.

But I will say, her writing this confession and stuff is pretty bold. It means she can never appeal ever again and she's gonna spend the rest of her life in prison and I think that's exactly what she should do because she really did that shit. She really did. Sadly two men had to die because of fucking Cherie. Damn girl, you sick. Okay I think that's it. I mean it's definitely not. I had to leave out some stuff, but like, boy, Sheree was exhausting. She's currently in prison for life. She's like 54 or 51. She's 51 years old. She'll be up for parole in 2055 when she's like 84 years old. So we'll see. I doubt she's going to get out. And yeah, that's the web of lies Cherie freaking created. Like insane. Like, oh my god. I guess a little end note here that I didn't know where to put into the story so much, but when Cherie was in jail, she ended up getting married one more time. Hey, she loves love, I guess. Have you heard of the

true crime show? It's called Snapped. It's on the Oxygen Network. I know you do. So they actually did an episode on Cherie in November of like 2007. And there was an older gentleman who was watching television that night and saw her story. And apparently this guy just like fell in love with Cherie. Now this man, he thought that she was completely wronged and was just a delicate little damsel in distress and she needed saving. So he wrote her a letter and she responded. He visited her in prison. And on that very first visit, he proposed to Cherie and she accepted. And I think they got married. Is that a meet cute?

I keep hearing people say meets cute. Is that one? Well, I think they ended up breaking up. But for a minute, they got married. Is that a meet cute? I keep hearing people say meet cute. Is that one? Well, I think they ended up breaking up, but for a minute they got married. Honestly, like, am I? No, mm-mm. What an idiot. If they're in jail, I just, well,

they can't leave you if they're in jail. Where else are they gonna go? Maybe some people like that. I don't get it. Never will. Anyways. I could go on. I got so deep into this story because it was just like, wait, what? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Pretty much

like my general consensus of Cherie was that she was just a freaking squatter. She would meet somebody, move in with them and her kids, and just stay there until she found her next situation, her next whatever, opportunity. Most people are just so fucking annoying. Anyways, let me know your guys' thoughts down below. I don't know what you can say. Really, it's just more sad that Sharice sucks. It's a shame that someone sucking so bad can lead to others dying. Like, that's sad. Let me know who you want me to talk about next week. But other than that, I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. You make good choices. Be safe out there, please. And I will be talking to you guys later. Goodbye. Today's story is, I know I say this all the time

because I mean, sometimes it's just so hard to believe, right? And today is definitely one of those stories. It's what, you know? And let's get into it. I forgot to grab something. My BO. I didn't realize this was gonna be so white.

Okay, so this story takes place in Overland Park, Kansas. Okay, so it's like Southwest of downtown Kansas City, Missouri. Why they have a Kansas City in Missouri, I don't know. They're just trying to confuse us. I think they have a Kansas City in Kansas too. Doesn't matter because it takes place in Kansas, but it's not far from Kansas City in Kansas too. Doesn't matter because it takes place in Kansas, but it's not far from Kansas City in Missouri.

Tell me why I got so hung up on this for just far too long. In the 1980s, Overland Park was flourishing. There was a big boom in commercial and residential development. And the city was just really growing. I mean, it had almost 100,000 people living in the area. So, I mean, it was pretty good. It was a suburb to the city,

and a lot of residents that were living there were middle-class families. Overall, the city had a positive reputation and was known for like an affordable and family-friendly community. It has consistently been voted one of the top 10 places to live in the United States, fun fact, and it offers a great option for the retirement community, also just great for families.

So, okay, great, right? With a bigger population though, comes more and more suspicious people. So in late 1984, a 19 year old woman named Paula Godfrey was living in the Overland Park area. Now she was looking for a job, a new job, and she found an advertisement in the paper for a secretary position.

Now this position, it would involve travel and training, but it overall just offered really great pay. So Paula told her parents that she was going to this interview and off she went. Unfortunately though, this would be the last time that they saw Paula. As time passed, the family grew worried, okay?

They hadn't heard from her and it was just very unlike her to not check in. As days passed, they received typed letters in the mail signed by Paula. Now these letters said that she was in need of time away, she wanted to find herself and become more independent. The family like didn't believe that this letter was coming from her because it just sounded nothing

like their daughter. So then the family goes down to the police to file a missing persons report. Now, again, at this time, Paula was 19. So there was really nothing that police could do because to them, they see a letter from someone who is of age, maybe she just didn't wanna be found.

And most of all, there's really like no evidence of any type of crime that may have taken place. So they did file the missing person report, but there really wasn't anything more that they could do. Okay, so then January 11th, 1985, a woman calls 911. She's concerned about her daughter-in-law, Lisa Stacey. Now she hadn't heard from Lisa in a number of days and she was growing more and more worried.

Now Lisa was only 19. She just had a baby who was now four months old. The baby's name was Tiffany. So Lisa was briefly married, but that only lasted for a couple of months. Her ex-husband ended up moving to Chicago and enlisted in the Navy. And then Lisa stayed behind in Kansas City,

Kansas, not Missouri. Yeah, I know, it's confusing. When her husband moved, Lisa had nowhere to go, okay? She had no job. She moved there with his family. So like her family wasn't even there. She really had no job. She moved there with his family. So like her family wasn't even there. She really had no options. So she ended up going to a local women's group home

just to stay there until she figured things out. So not long after, Lisa told her sister-in-law that she was really excited because she got accepted into this Kansas City Outreach Program, which was a program that focused on young mothers, getting them back on their feet, providing them with housing, daycare, and a secure job. This program was started in Kansas City

by a name of John Osborne, who wanted to help women, young women, get back on their feet. Not many people were accepted into this program, so when Lisa was, she was happy, relieved, thrilled. So on January 9th, 1985, John Osborne, the guy who owned the outreach program, he picked Lisa and her baby Tiffany up

from her in-laws house before taking her into the program. John would end up taking Lisa and her baby over to a hotel near his offices and allow them to stay there until they got into the proper housing. So that very same night, Lisa called her mother-in-law just in panic. She was crying, she seemed very upset

because she was told that her mother-in-law was trying to take her baby away from her. And then she was also told that her mother-in-law was bad mouthing her, just calling her a bad mother. So her mother-in-law was bad-mouthing her, just calling her a bad mother. So her mother-in-law is just all sorts of confused because like this wasn't the case. She never said that, she wasn't taking the baby,

and she never said Lisa was a bad mom. So she's just trying to calm her down and figure out what exactly is going on. So Lisa just seems to be very upset on the phone, and she tells her mother-in-law that these people, they made her sign blank sheets of paper, like some kind of contract, but she wasn't even sure what she was signing

because the pages were blank. And her mother-in-law isn't understanding because, I mean, that doesn't make any sense, right? You'd be like, what? Her mother-in-law is telling her like, don't sign anything, don't agree to anything, whatever. But then Lisa quickly tells her mother-in-law on the phone, they're coming now and then hangs up quickly.

Now this would be the last time anyone had heard from Lisa. Oh yeah, so back to the 911 call. So her mother-in-law calls 911 and tells them exactly what happened. Now the next day, the in-laws, they call up the hotel that Lisa was supposed to stay at, and they ask the hotel like, hey, is Lisa still there? She still checked in? And that's when they were informed that she had already checked out. The bill had been paid by a local

business under the name John Robinson. Now, none of this was making any damn sense, but they really didn't know like where else to go from here. Now, a couple of days go by and the family randomly gets a voicemail because they're out like doing their thing. So they come home and there's a message on the answering machine. So they listened to it. And it's from some guy named Father Martin

who worked at the local mission. Well, on this message, he says that Lisa and her baby are fine, but they ended up leaving town with a guy named Bill. Super random, but like, okay. The family then decides to call the local mission and ask if there was a Father Martin working there. And then that's when they were informed that there was no Father Martin.

No Father Martin had worked there. So like, what is going on? Police go down to question this John Robinson guy, you know, the man who was in charge of the program. And he's like, yeah, I did pick Lisa up. She came down to my office and I was wanting to help her out but she also brought this guy named Bill with her. And Lisa said that this is my boyfriend.

So John offered her help and and then she kindly declined, saying that she was no longer going to need the help, she was going to move with Bill and start a new life. She wanted to pass this opportunity on to somebody else who needed it. So the police pass this information on to the family, but again, it's really not making much sense to them. Like who the hell is this Bill guy?

And they don't really have any answers. And because Lisa is of age, like over 18, there's really not much more they can do. I mean, from their investigation, I guess, it's like Lisa just maybe want to start a new life with this Bill guy. So a few days pass and the family gets a letter in the mail and it's signed by Lisa.

In this letter, it says that things have been going bad for her and she had an opportunity to start a new life with this man she met and that she just wanted to do her thing. So not only did her family receive it, but the women's shelter that she was staying at prior to leaving, they also received a signed letter from Lisa saying the same thing.

Now, they turn this letter into police, but again, there's really not much they could do. So the case just goes cold. So then June 1987, a 27-year-old woman named Catherine Clampett, she moved to Kansas City from Texas to have a new start in life. So Catherine moves, right? Okay, so she starts looking for a new job and she comes across an ad in the newspaper for an executive secretary position

for a busy CEO who just needed help. Catherine ends up getting hired for the position and she ends up working for a man named John Dawson. Catherine kept in touch with her family back in Texas and she was telling them about her new job for the CEO. She would call every so often and just keep everyone in the loop as to what was going on. But then all of a sudden it's just like communication stopped

and nobody had heard from her. So Catherine's brother keeps calling and calling, but he's not getting any response. So then the days just keep passing, passing by, right? And nothing, nothing from Catherine. So then the days just keep passing, passing by, right? And nothing, nothing from Catherine. So then the family receives a typed letter in the mail and it's from Catherine. In the letter, it says that she's doing well,

that she just decided to take a different job and focus on being more independent. Now to her family, this made, again, no sense. This is just really worrying to them. They call police, but there's really not much they can do because she's a grown adult and there's no signs of there being a crime, just a typed letter that may or may not be from her,

you know? But Catherine's brother like knew something was up. So he looks up the CEO that Catherine had mentioned and he finds a phone number, calls the number. And then when the receptionist picks up, he asks to speak with a John Dawson, and that's when he's informed that nobody works there with that name, and they also never heard of Catherine.

So now the family's like, okay, what the heck is really going on? Like, this is not making sense. Because there's really nothing police can do, Catherine's family decides to take matters into their own hands, and they go down to Catherine's apartment decides to take matters into their own hands, and they go down to Catherine's apartment.

Her brother goes to the apartment. He starts going through all of her belongings, and he's just looking for anything that can help figure out where she is. He comes across a bunch of receipts, and then finds one that was from a recent stay at a hotel. The room was paid for by a person named John Robinson, a name that they had never heard of before.

While looking through her belongings, they also find that Catherine was working for a company named Equi2, Equi2? Yeah, I think it's Equi2, which was a consulting firm and was owned by John Robinson. Now this is a real place and a real company. So like maybe they just had the wrong information, you know? So the brother is able to find the information

on this company and gets the address. And the next day he goes out to the address for Equitou, Equitou, Equitou, whatever. He goes there, he walks up to the building and he sees that the place is shut down. There's like nobody in there. And the reason that it shut down was because this guy, John Robinson, the CEO of this said company,

he was about to start a prison sentence. John Robinson guy, well, he had been arrested a few weeks earlier for fraud and theft. And in police's eyes, he was just really seen as like a small time con man. Now this was in the late 80s. So the police kept their records by hand and there was like no connection being made

between all the disappearances to these three women, Catherine, Stacey and Lisa. So in the investigator's eyes, these three women were seen as troubled and they just ran off to start a new life. Police just believed that these women didn't want to be found, and they really had no way of connecting the dots. I think technically they're supposed to communicate

with each other, but you know, it wasn't happening. These cases end up going cold and 10 years pass. Oh yeah. So March 25th, 2000, 27 year old Suzette Troughton, she was living with her mother in Michigan and she was just ready to move out and be on her own. She ended up finding a job in Kansas, working for a wealthy businessman

that did a lot of international travel. Her new position was to take care of this wealthy businessman's father who was older and just needed assistance while he was away being a wealthy businessman. Now Suzette and her mother, Carolyn, were super close. They talked all the time. So her mom was sad that her daughter was leaving, but she was just excited.

You know, she started a new chapter, she's doing her thing. You have to support it, right? Okay, so Suzette moved out to Kansas City and would call her mom often, even emailing her and just let her know like how everything was going. But one month after Suzette moved, the phone calls, the emails, everything just stopped and Suzette just seemed to like vanish.

So this was very strange because again, Suzette and her mother were very close. They would talk on the phone almost like every single day. So to not hear from her for a couple of days was very unlike her. And I know what you're thinking, no more concealer, but here I am. So Suzette's mother, she ends up finding

like the contact information for this businessman. Boop, bop, boop. She calls him up. She's like, hey, so my daughter moved out there. She's supposed to be working for you. I haven't heard from her. Do you know anything? And he tells her that Suzette took off

with a man named Jim Turner and they were going to sail around the world together on a sailboat. Now this didn't make any damn sense because if her daughter was going to sail around the world, okay, Suzette would have told her. She's like, no, no. Now the man on the phone said that Suzette

had only worked for him for like a short period of time, and that he really didn't have any answers for her. Suzette's mother, she contacts police and tells them that her daughter's missing, the name of the employer, and that her daughter was working for this man named John Robinson. So then Suzette's mother starts to receive letters in the mail from Suzette. One came from California and another one came from Mexico.

Now these letters, it said that she was sailing around the world with a new love she had found and not to worry about her. Now these letters, they were typed, but her mother knew sure as heck that these were not from Suzette. the new love she had found and not to worry about her. Now these letters, they were typed, but her mother knew sure as heck that these were not from Suzette. Now she knew this because there were no spelling errors

in this letter, which was not like her. Sometimes it comes in handy to not be able to spell that great. So her mom's like, yeah, this isn't her. There's no way this is her. Now, but the weirdest thing of all was that the letter was signed by Suzette at the bottom. Okay, it was her mom's like, yeah, this isn't her. There's no way this is her. Now, but the weirdest thing of all was that the letter was signed by Suzette at the bottom. Okay, it was her daughter's signature.

And it was, you know, when you look at it or whatever, it's like there's an indentation. She signed it. It wasn't printed. It wasn't like a stamp. It was a signature. So it was just strange. And she's thinking, well, crap, like,

am I worrying too much? Like, I don't understand. So now at this point, when Suzette goes and tells the police about John Robinson, now the name is starting to sound very familiar because there were people in that office who were also aware of the missing girls from the 80s. Also technology had advanced.

And at this point they were able to keep better records on the missing girls from the 80s. Also technology had advanced, and at this point they were able to keep better records on the missing people in the system and not just like pen to paper. So that's good. So this whole John Robinson is raising some red flags and the FBI ends up getting involved. So they decide to look into John Robinson's background and they see that he ran a couple of businesses.

He was currently running an independent magazine around farming life. He was married, he had four kids, and he was well-respected in the neighborhood. He came from a middle-class family, was raised by a religious family, was a boy scout involved with the local church. And he was also involved with local charities.

Now, John literally seemed like a total normal family dude. Well, besides his arrest records, okay. So he had a pretty lengthy arrest record. In 1971, he was arrested for stealing money from the company he was working for. And then again, for a probation violation. And then in 1976, he was arrested for fraud. In 1981, felony for embezzlement.

And then in 1986, he was arrested for theft. To the investigators, it wasn't making much sense to them, because he was a con man. He was stealing money, which is bad. But what does a con man have to do with these missing women? They couldn't just go up to him and arrest him because there was no proof of any crime in the first place. So John is officially on their radar.

You know, they don't wanna go up to John and just start asking him some wild questions and potentially tipping him off. So they decide, okay, let's start looking into Suzette's background and see if that can lead us somewhere. Cause maybe they're missing something with Suzette, which they were. So investigators go're missing something with Suzette, which they were.

So investigators go and they confiscate Suzette's computer and they search her online activity. That's when they find that Suzette was really into BDSM. BDSM is a variety of erotic practices or role-playing involving bondage, discipline, dominance and submission, sadomasochism and you know, whoops. Now BDSM may not be your cup of tea, but there's a large community who does participate in this, but most of all, it's always with consenting partners.

So police learned that Suzette really lived a completely different life online. She was very active in the BDSM websites, and she was always in the BDSM focused chat rooms. She was looking for partners to engage with, and according to Suzette's friends, she was sexually submissive and was always in search of a master, someone she could be a consenting slave to. So investigators learned that Suzette had found a new master online, and over time they were building a relationship. And the full truth was that Suzette moved to Kansas City to be this person's slave, and also work as a caretaker for his elderly father, the master's name, John Robinson.

Now BDSM isn't illegal, right? So investigators are like, okay, we can arrest John Robinson for whips and chains, you know? But they did think, okay, let's, on the down low, let's follow John Robinson undercover, let's follow his day-to-day and like see what's going on. So they followed John, his day-to-day, his home life, all that stuff, and after weeks of following him they realized that John was just living this completely like double life. At home he was a family man, he had four kids, he had

the wife, a dog, you know? Just living this all-American middle-class lifestyle, whatever the heck that means, you know? But John would tell his wife that he was And then they would park outside the motel and then they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel

and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel and they would go to the hotel which again, isn't illegal, but it was like, okay. So investigators say would follow him in his car, right? And then they would park outside the motel. And then they would see John coming and going with different women into the motel. And then around five o'clock PM, it's kind of like John was like clocking out, I guess.

And he would head home, meet his wife and the family. Well, the FBI was involved. They were able to wiretap all of his phones and stuff, but also they were able to track like what he was doing online. So they're tracking his movements online. And they see that John also is a frequent visitor of the BDSM websites.

And he was in constant search for slaves. Now on a popular BDSM website, he had the username Master, not like master1022499922, no, just Master. Blew my mind. Okay, so he would visit these websites, right? He would offer women lots of money,

new wardrobes, and a job in return of being their master. So at one point police get a room at the motel that John would meet a lot of his guests at. So they get a room and it's next to John's room and they're listening in. They're like, they're hoping to figure out what exactly, what is he doing? Right? What is he doing? Because at this point they weren't even sure what he was doing. They were thinking that maybe he was involved with like sex trafficking or something, but again, they just didn't have anything. So they're listening in. And that's when they start to hear slaps.

Okay. And then it's like, okay, there seems to be like sexual acts happening. Super awkward. They couldn't determine if these were consenting acts or not, so they couldn't just crash into the room and arrest him. Oh, I'm sorry I've been flipping you off this whole time.

I'm sorry about that. Well, time is going on, investigators, they just feel like they don't really have anything on him, but then they get a big break, a big break, thank you. So a woman comes forward to police. Now she tells them that she met this man named James Turner online. He offered her a job and asked her to meet at this hotel.

So she goes down there to the hotel and the two of them get into some kind of argument and I guess he ends up slapping her pretty dang hard. So the woman, she leaves and she goes down to the front desk and she's like, hey, who is staying in this room? I need to, I need his name because I'm gonna report what happened to me. And that's when she was told that the room

was under the name John Robinson. Now this woman, she didn't know John Robinson, okay? And she's like, this is just all sorts of weird. This person crossed the line and that's when she decided to go to police. So she files a complaint with police for when she decided to go to police. So she files a complaint with police for sexual battery. Police are keeping record, John had about 15

to like 20 identities that he had been using. So a couple of days go by and then guess what? Another woman comes forward with the same exact complaint, but on top of that, she was also robbed. So she filed a complaint for sexual battery plus robbery against John. Police finally have enough to make an arrest. So on June 2nd, 2000, police go out to John's house

and knock, knock, knock, hey, we're here to arrest you. John actually invites them in. They say he's super friendly and pretty calm. So they tell John that he's under arrest for sexual battery and robbery. But then they say, when he's in like the handcuffs and stuff, they tell John like, yeah, you're arrested for sexual battery robbery.

But we also know about four missing women that seem to all be tied to you, John. So we wanna talk to you about that when we get down to the station. They say that at that moment, like all the color just left John's face and he had a full blown anxiety attack. Like get it together, John.

You knew this was coming. So they get a bunch of, they get the warrants and whatnot, and they confiscate all of his computers and all of his files. Now he had tons of files that dated back many, many years. So it was like a little treasure trove. While going through all of his files. Now he had tons of files that dated back many, many years. So it was like a little treasure trove. While going through all of his stuff, they realized that John had two storage units.

One was in Kansas and another in Missouri. Plus he had a family farm in Lynn County, Kansas. They go down to the Kansas storage locker, they open her up and inside of there, they find tons of birth certificates, driver's license, social security cards. All of these were belonging to some of the women that were missing. So then they head down to Lynn County to search the family farm. It's a pretty big property.

They had like a mobile home, they had a storage shed, they're searching everything right They had a storage shed. They're searching everything, right? Next to the storage shed, they found two large 88 gallon barrels. So they're trying to move the barrels and one of them kind of tips over and some liquid starts to leak out of the side. And it seemed to be blood.

So they open it up. They open it up and inside they find Suzette's body inside the barrel. So then there's a second barrel. Now they open that one up and they find another woman inside of it. They had no idea who this victim was. So now they're thinking like, oh my gosh, oh dear, how many people has he really killed

that we don't even know about? So investigators go out to search the other storage unit that was down in Missouri or over in Missouri, wherever Missouri is. Okay, they open that up and what do they find? Three more barrels with three more bodies inside. I got questions. First of all, doesn't it smell or no?

Okay, that's my first question. My second question is, how many people are doing this with storage units and you don't even know? That's all the questions I have. So they find three more victims. Now, none of these victims were the women that investigators had on their list.

So they're just like, oh dear, oh dear. On June 12th, they were able to ID the victim in the barrel on the farm. She was a 21 year old girl named Isabella, who was a Polish immigrant, and she had like just moved to Indiana. She then moved to Kansas City to marry John in 1999. In the storage documents,

they found a slave contract between Isabella and John, which gave John like almost all control over her life, and then one day she just vanished. Isabella's family, they never reported her missing, because they thought that she was traveling around Europe. They had been receiving signed letters and emails from her, they just thought she was doing her thing. Yeah, so they never put in a missing persons report,

which is super sad, but at the same time I get it. Like some parents are super on top of their kids and then some are just kind of like, meh, whatever. So, you know, they didn't know. Anyways, but both victims that were found in these barrels, Isabella and Suzette, both of them had died from blunt force trauma to the head. It was believed that they had come from like a small hammer.

And then I guess John put them in the barrel, and then just let them be in a barrel. Like what a loser. Now the three victims that were found inside of the storage unit in Missouri, these were like not the three women investigators were looking for, or expected, Lisa, Paula, and Catherine. But they did get the autopsy done in June, and they were able to ID them.

So one of them was 49-year-old Beverly Bonner, another one was 45-year-old Sheila, and her 15-year-old disabled daughter, Debbie Faith. They see that none of these people had missing persons reports, none of them. and then Beverly ended up following him and like continuing their relationship. Now, Beverly ended up getting married to John, who was a former prison librarian. And John was a former prison librarian. So John was a former prison librarian.

And Beverly ended up following John and like continuing their relationship. Now, Beverly ended up getting married to John and she was a former prison librarian. So she was a former prison librarian. And she was a former prison librarian. were married, by the way. John left prison, and then Betty, or Beverly, ended up following him, and like continuing their relationship. Now, Beverly ended up getting a divorce from her husband, who was like a doctor. John had discovered that Beverly was getting around $1,000 a month in alimony checks from her ex-husband, and he wanted in on that, I guess, because he ends up killing Beverly and he started cashing her checks every month.

Beverly's family knew something wasn't right, but again, she was writing them letters, okay? And the letters were signed. They were telling them that like she was fine, she had started a new life. And then on top of that, her alimony checks were being cashed every month, which just made them think she was still alive

and just didn't wanna be bothered. Okay, so then who the heck was Sheila and her daughter Debbie? Now these were the two other victims that were found in the storage unit. John met Sheila on the BDSM website or a BDSM website. Well, Sheila, she was looking for a master, but expressed to John that her daughter was disabled and she wasn't able to just like pick up

and move to where John lived. So John tells her like, hey, you can move out here. I'm super successful. I'm a successful businessman and I have lots of money. So I could take care of you and your daughter, give her the best care. Sheila and her daughter, Debbie, they move out to live with John. Now after moving in with John, Sheila and Debbie just vanished, they just disappeared.

John killed both of them and he continued to cash the disability checks Sheila was receiving for her daughter, and he continued to cash that for over six years. Nobody caught on, nobody kept in touch with them. So like no one really knew. So it was uncovered that John was making these women sign blank sheets of paper, telling them that they were going to be traveling a lot and that they wouldn't have time

to write letters to their families. So they signed letters or blank sheets of paper ahead of time. That's how John was able to get all these signatures, like they really were the victim's signatures. Now it really doesn't make much sense to us, I'm sure you're like, what, why would you do that? But you know, sometimes when you're in this thing called love,

or you think you're in love, you could do just really dumb things that don't make much sense. I'm sure like it didn't click for these women at the time, and I'm sure they weren't thinking they were gonna be murdered and all that jazz. So, but that's how he was getting all these signatures. Okay, and then John would just type out the letters afterwards.

Now get this, because this blew with my mind. Police get another disturbing tip. I need you to listen, cause you're not listening. Okay, this is already a bad story, right? Bad, awful. Well then, they find out that John helped his brother adopt a baby back in 1985. Do you know where this is going?

The brother paid John $5,000. John presented the legal documents signed by a judge, attorneys, showing that this was a legit adoption. It turned out that the girl who was now a teenager was actually Lisa's baby, AKA Tiffany, AKA one of John's victims, the one I mentioned in the beginning of the story, yes, yes.

What? Yes, that's how I felt. I was like, no, yes. That's so messed up on so many levels. Okay, look, a photograph was given to John's brother on the day that the baby was adopted. And it was the same photo that Lisa's family had of Lisa's baby as well.

Again, when she went missing, she was only four months old, but they were able to get the baby's, Tiffany, the baby's footprint from her birth records, and then they matched it to her grown footprint as an adult or a teenager. Beep, bop, boop, it was her. Now, now, now, John's brother had no idea that this had happened.

He had all the legal documents showing that this was a legit adoption, but in reality, John had forged all of these documents, and... Yeah. Could you imagine? So like, obviously this is shocking information to the family, this is, they had no idea. They had no idea. The daughter gets put in such a, I just couldn't imagine.

I just couldn't imagine. Could you imagine? I know I keep saying that, but I just couldn't imagine. What would you do? So the daughter, she's only, she was a teenager at this time. She could stay with the Robinson family or she could head back and be with Lisa's family. But she decided to stay with the Robinson family or she could head back and be with Lisa's family.

But she decided to stay with the Robinson family because it was like all she knew. They raised her, like that was her family. Don't judge. She would later on in life sue the hospital who recommended John's outreach program to her mom. Yeah, John's outreach program was like in partnership with this hospital and they were recommending people to him.

Yeah, so I mean, who really knows how many people John had? So in October, 2002, John Robinson, he was at that point 58 and he was now on trial for the murder of Lisa, Isabella and Suzette. Now he was pleading not guilty. Dumbass. In January of 2003, the jury sentences John to life imprisonment for the murder of Lisa and two death penalties for the murder of Suzanne and Isabella.

He had to go to Missouri and still stand trial there. So he ends up making a deal with the courts to avoid the death sentence. He ends up pleading guilty to the murder of Beverly, Sheila, and Debbie. Now, sadly to this day, they never found the bodies of Lisa, Catherine, and Paula. They have no idea where they went, and like, geez, there's probably more.

Now, John would end up spending the rest of his life in prison. He's currently sitting on death row in Kansas. And you're probably wondering what happened to his wife and stuff. Well, his wife, poor thing, she's like, you know, I'm saying poor thing because I don't believe that she had any idea what was going on,

but she also like tried to stay by her man and just support him because that was like the right thing to do. You know, they were married for over 40 years and in 2005, that's when she files for divorce. John sucks. He is disgusting. He murdered innocent women, took advantage of women, but then he like ruined all the lives around him. He's just like

this one selfish asswipe. This is a side note. I think this is the first time in murder mystery makeup history where I didn't finish my makeup before my story. Well, is it? I mean, there's been other times where I just stopped doing my makeup, but I'm truly just not done. This is groundbreaking information. Okay, hold on, I'll be right back. And that my friends is the awful story about John Robinson. He was something else. I mean, the things that frustrate me the most about stories like this one is like,

why can't you just tell us where all of your victims are? You don't even have to tell me, just tell police. I mean, at least all the families can get closure. Like you're gonna die anyways, you're on death row. You're not going anywhere. Like, why can't you just tell them? It's still messed up. I didn't look into like where John's family is now,

his ex-wife and his four kids and stuff, because I feel like don't, just leave them out of this. They've been through enough, you know? What did we learn here? I guess something we can take away is that, you know, you should still always at least try your best to run like a background check on people that you're meeting online.

Yeah, I know, some of you are just trying to get that D, you're just trying to like meet someone really quick, whatever, but try your best, just take a moment and do some internet stalking, try and find their information, make sure they're a legit person, who they say they are, and try your best to find somebody you can tell when you're meeting somebody else.

Hey, loser, I'm going to meet this guy, blah, blah, blah. You know, so at least somebody knows. And I'm not trying to victim blame saying these people didn't do this, because it wasn't like a thing yet, right? It was the internet was just starting. But now we have like all the information and resources at our fingertips

and I just want you to be safe. So make sure to background check people. But other than that, I will see you guys later. Make your choices. Bye. Okay, listen, look, listen. Are you listening? Okay, look.

So sometimes the YouTube algorithm, you know, it's like, listen, are you listening? Okay, look, so sometimes the YouTube algorithm, you know, it's like, meh, whatever, but sometimes it's good and it'll recommend something that I don't know, I just like, what is this, you know? So YouTube was recommending this court trial to me, the Amato case, and I was like, why are you recommending this to me nonstop? Fine, I'll watch it.

So I clicked it and boy, was it a wild ride. You can watch on YouTube the whole court trial. They uploaded all the footage from the court trial. Of course they leave out like the graphic pictures and whatnot, which is good. I don't think any of us should be seeing that, but it's gotta be like two weeks worth of footage. There's just a lot of footage.

So I'm gonna tell you the story so you don't have to watch all that, but you can watch it and I'll link some down below. Wow, this story's got, it's just, let's just get right into it. Today's story takes place in Chuliota, Florida. Let's start off with just the family in general. There are kind of a lot of names.

It can get a bit confusing, but bear with me. I'm gonna try my best. So Margaret and Chad Amato. They had three sons and they lived in Chuliotta, Florida, like I had said. The oldest son, Jason, wasn't Chad's biological son, but Chad adopted him at the age of three and cared for him as his own. So Jason considered Chad to be his father. And soon after, Margaret and Chad got married

and then had two more sons. So they went on to have Cody who was the middle son and then Grant who was the youngest. All three boys were said to grow up really close and they did everything together. They were big into sports, played outside, went to football games and seemed to just have like a really great relationship.

I mean, so it seems, you know? You never know what's going on behind closed doors, but it just sounded like it was good. I put tape over here if you're wondering what that is. So Margaret and Chad, they provided a pretty good life, or yeah, a very good life, I would say, because they lived in this big, beautiful ass house. They seemed to be doing financially well. They had this big home, they had

nice cars, they had gaming systems, computers, I mean all the materialistic stuff it seemed you know that they had it all. Must I say more? No. Margaret the mom, she loved horses. She adopted a retired racehorse. She had like a stable where she kept the horses and she would go down to the stables and work with her horse. She was very passionate about horses and if she wasn't inside the home, then you could find her down at the stable. Margaret worked for a healthcare company

as a client operations manager and her husband Chad was a clinical pharmacist at a local CVS, but he also had a second job slash hobby working on computers and building computers as well. Growing up, it was said that the home was pretty loving, but Chad, their dad, could be very strict, very old school type of guy, you know, where there's like never any physical abuse

going on in the home, but also it was just like, you didn't wanna piss Chad off, you didn't wanna piss your dad off. He was just stricter and he had rules that you had to follow and if you didn't wanna follow his rules, then you could get out, you know? So the oldest son, Jason, he ended up moving out when he was like 19 years old, around that age.

He would go on to start his own family as well. He said that he was still really close to his family. He would visit the home on holidays. He was always welcome and he tried to be around when he could, but again, he had his own life and his own family. So it was just every so often. During their high school years,

Cody and Grant were said to do everything together. Cody was only one year older than Grant. So they were pretty close in age. They both were like on the weightlifting team together at their high school. They played video games together. They built their own computers together. Yeah, learning from like how to do so from their father

because their father did the same thing. Also the family, everyone seemed to own their own guns and they were a big gun family it seemed like, I don't know. But they all had their own guns and they often went to like the shooting range together and both Cody and Grant also started their own airsoft league. Just a side note, you're probably wondering what the hell I'm doing on my eyes. Your guess is as good as mine, I really don't know. Now it was said that Grant, the youngest, he was a bit of a loner,

he was kind of like the oddball. Well, Cody seemed to be like his only friend. Any friends that were Cody's friends though were Grant's friends. But it seemed like those friends wouldn't necessarily just invite Grant out. You know what I'm saying? Like it was that type of deal

where Grant seemed to rely on Cody to provide friends. So Grant, the youngest, he went on to attend UCF. And then in 2011, he got his nursing degree and he wanted to get into the medical fields like pretty much the rest of his family. Cause all of his family at this point was working in the medical field. So then in 2018, Grant was then 29.

He was either 28, 29 at the time, but he was fired from the hospital that he was working at because, Grant, he was accused of stealing eight vials of propofol, a heavy duty sedative that's typically used during surgery. Grant was caught with eight vials of it, like in his pocket, like he was gonna take it home and party or something, we don't know, we don't know.

Grant was caught and he was arrested. And in the arrest report, it said that Grant admitted to stealing the drug to give to patients that he felt were not being adequately sedated by doctor ordered medication. He was arrested and charged with grand theft, but in November, the charges were dropped.

It's believed that the charges were dropped because Grant was claiming that he was giving this medication to other patients at the hospital, which potentially could open up lawsuits against the hospital if it were true. It's believed that Grant wasn't actually giving this to his patients, that he was actually just going to take it home and use it himself, but there isn't any proof of that. So it was just completely dropped because potentially it could open up lawsuits and all that jazz. And all that jazz.

That's what it always comes down to. Money. Lawsuits. Not about the right thing, huh? So at this time when Grant gets fired, he's still living with his mom and dad. And again, he's about 28, 29. And then also Cody is still living with his mom and dad. And again, he's about 28, 29. And then also Cody is still living with his parents as well. So it's Cody, Grant, Margaret, and Chad,

all living together under one roof, okay? Now his family is just very upset with him, disappointed with him, obviously. And it became a very heated topic when the family would push him, ask him questions like, when are you gonna get a job? You know, parents asking questions like, when am I gonna get a job? But they would get into arguments because Grant just kind of fell into what seemed to be a depression.

He didn't seem to be motivated at all to get a new job. Yeah, anytime his parents brought it up, it would just start a fight. The parents seemed to just kind of be a little, getting frustrated with Grant because he's living rent free, you know, has no job. And everyone was paying for whatever Grant needed at that time. And when he asked, they would just give him money.

When Grant's parents would refuse to give him money, he would ask his brother, Cody, who again was the older brother. And oftentimes refuse to give him money. He would ask his brother Cody, who again was the older brother, and often times Cody would give him money for anything that he needed. So pretty much everybody was quote unquote taking care of Grant while he was trying to find a job. Now Grant spent a lot of his time on his computer or gaming, and he was home all the time with like nothing to do

because he didn't have a job. So what's like a lonely, what's a lonely person looking for some sweet loving gonna do, you know? Well, he found his way to a website called myfreecam.com. Not sponsored. It was an X-rated website where you could chat with or even just view different cam girls and pay for like one-on-one video sex chat,

boom kind of website. Now, if you don't know what a cam girl website is, that's a great question. A cam girl website is where women, even men too, don't get me wrong, can go on there and like you can just be like all sexy and like, and then people can pay you to chat with you, and it's really up to the cam girl or guy how far they want to go,

like if whether it be like some sexual stuff, or if it's just more PG-13, it's all up to them, but it can get you know way more x-rated as they say. So Grant is on there right, when he's looking around he finds this woman, she's a cam model, and her name is Sylvie, and she's from Bulgaria.

Sylvie. Now Grant fell in love with Sylvie, okay? She was beautiful, she was smart. Plus, she would make him feel special. Now Grant would keep coming back to see Sylvie on the website, They would talk for hours and Grant just felt like he was truly in an intimate relationship with this woman, Sylvie. He told Sylvie that he was a very successful professional gamer and that he drove a fancy BMW

and he was living in his own apartment, creating a new persona for himself online. I mean, why not? You know, the internet doesn't know if you're lying or not. It was said that Grant would spend hours upon hours online watching Sylvie model and dance online. He would also get one-on-one time with Sylvie where she would model for him and slash or do sexual things online while Grant was watching.

Now, Grant would pay in order to watch or have one-on-one time with her, but he felt the more money he spent with this new persona he was, you know, putting out there, the more attention he was receiving from Sylvie. I'm sure this attention was just nice, it probably felt nice. Somebody likes me, you know? Grant said that in order to watch Sylvie, it costed 90 tokens per minute, and Grant had purchased 5,000 tokens for $600, math, which means he would get about an hour or 56 minutes of Sylvie's time for $600.

I'm in the wrong business. As their relationship continued, Grant would mail Sylvie sex toys or lingerie that she would model for him, and at first, Grant was spending about four hours a night watching Sylvie, which was costing him about $2500 a day. In November of 2019, bank statements showed that Grant was spending up to $20,000 a night, sending this money to Sylvie in tips while he watched. $20,000 a night, sending this money to Sylvie in tips while he watched. $20,000 a night. Grant was just growing more and more out of control,

like this is just sounds like a full-blown addiction. Now you're probably wondering, well how the hell was he getting his money? Because he didn't have a job, right? He wasn't working and he was dedicating a lot of his time to just watching Sylvie. So it was said that he was getting the money from his parents' credit cards and also by hacking their bank accounts or his brother Cody would give him money from time to time.

Nobody really knew what it was going towards, but yeah. Now it's unclear at what point Grant's parents had caught on, but it was said that Chad and Margaret had confronted Grant about these like $600 charges that they were seeing in their bank accounts. And Grant had told his parents that he was spending the money on Twitch, promoting his account so he would grow

in followers and subscribers, and in the long run that it would pay off. Because if you are a video game streamer, I mean, I think they make a lot of money, right? So Grant's mother, father, and his brother, they knew that he was like stealing and spending a large amount of money. They're unsure if they knew what exactly it was for,

like what the truth was, but anytime it was brought up, it was just, again, like a heated topic. Cody tried to be the calm one in the family. He tried to tell Grant, hey, I'll be here and I'll help you in any way and I can help you like pay everybody back. And he was just the one who seemed to be trying to keep the peace in the family and keep everybody calm. Cody just seemed like he was always trying to protect Grant. So earlier I said that they, the parents had looked at their bank statements from 2019. it was from 2018, sorry.

In December of 2018, Grant and his brother Cody, plus a friend named Jericho, they went to, or they went on a trip to Japan. The group was really into anime and was looking forward to going and seeing the art, the culture, and just anime. I believe there was like a studio out there, an animation studio that they were really excited about,

but they all went. Now because Grant had no money, Cody, his brother ended up covering all costs for him to go, I know. It was said that the last day that they were in Japan, Grant told Cody and his friend that he wasn't feeling very well and that he wanted to stay behind,

while the two other went out to kind of adventure around a little bit before they left. So later on, it was discovered that Grant actually had taken or stolen, I should say, their friend Jericho's credit card, and he went to a place with wifi and used the card to pay and watch Sylvie while the other two were away. The friend, allegedly I should say,

he didn't notice that the card was gone until he got a notification or a phone call from his parent asking like, "'Why are you charging this large amount?' "'Cause it was like $600. "'Why are you charging, like what is this charge?' And that's when they realized that Grant had taken his card. I mean, he sounds like a drug addict, right?

He's just gotta get his Sylvie fix. Now, when the brothers had returned home, things got heated. Grant's father was disappointed that Grant still didn't have a job and that he wasn't really doing anything with his life except for spending everybody else's money and putting everyone into debt. At the end of December of 2018,

their father, Chad, was looking at his bank records again, and discovered that a lot more money was missing, which he then asked Grant about it, and it led to an argument. Now Grant ended up leaving the home that day, and he just kind of drove off into the night, right? And this was on December 19th of 2018. His mother called 911, and she expressed that, you know, she was worried about him

because he seemed really depressed and she believed that he may have been possibly suicidal. Margaret then told the police that she had received a text from Grant saying, quote, "'I'm really tired of everything. "'Just going to handle it my own way,' end quote." Grant ended up driving out to his aunt's home, which wasn't too far. It was in Florida. I think it was in Orange County. I can't remember, sorry. But he ended up driving out to

his aunt's home. He asked if he could stay there with her and she agreed. She let him in. His aunt said that he seemed very depressed. She had noticed that he just seemed like he was lost. He just wasn't there. She also noticed that Grant would be asleep all day and then stay up all night. His aunt and uncle, they also had guns in the home and they thought it would be best if they took the guns, they locked him up, at least for while Grant was staying there because he just seemed very down.

So a few days go by and his aunt looks at her bank account. And what does she see? Yes, Grant again, what the hell are you doing? She sees all these weird charges and they're for hundreds of dollars. She doesn't recognize them. And then that's when she finds out that Grant had stolen her credit card information

and was using it to pay and watch Sylvie at night while the family was asleep. Like what the heck are you doing, you know? Also, it was said that Grant's uncle, grandma, and one of his cousins all had charges on their cards, again, from Grant to watch Sylvie. So he was just hacking everybody's bank account, at least in his family, it seems.

So Grant's aunt calls up Grant's father, his name's Chad, remember? And she's like, hey, listen, he stole my credit card information and I have these weird charges and she's telling him everything, right? And then that's when Grant's father just had like a full blown breakdown

and cried on the phone telling her that this has been going on and the family was in $150,000 worth of debt that was caused by Grant's spending on this website or whatever. $150,000 in debt. Chad told her over the phone that he didn't think he would be able to retire for years,

but that it was okay because he wanted to do it for Grant and he didn't want him to go to jail. Asked her to please not press charges and Chad promised that he would pay her back any of the money that was made from Grant. Grant had stolen between 200 to $250,000 from the family just so he could interact with Sylvie online. So it was like 150,000 just from his family alone,

and then from his immediate family, and then his aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa, like everybody else was getting hit around him too. And Grant, he had a problem, and the family didn't want him to go to prison. They knew he needed help and not prison. So the family, mom, dad, Cody, and their older brother, Jason,

they all came up with a plan to confront Grant at their aunt's house and have like a little intervention. The family showed up and then they waited outside of the aunt's house. And then once Grant leaves the home, he was walking out like he's walking back to his car. That's when they all confront him and they were either taking him to a treatment facility or he was going to be cut off from the family. That's when they all confront him and they were either taking him to a treatment facility

or he was going to be cut off from the family, that's what they're telling him. Hey man, we think that you have a problem, you're literally stealing everybody's money and we just want to help you and we don't want you to go to prison, so please just go to this treatment facility, get some help and you know, we'll definitely help you. The family just seemed very supportive and gave him so many chances. They just wanted to help him. Now, it was said that Grant was the quiet, submissive type and that he didn't really say anything when this happened.

He was just kind of like, okay, yeah, you know, and that he voluntarily went to the rehab clinic in South Florida. Now this clinic is mainly for people with addiction, drug addiction and whatnot, but I mean, there really aren't many clinics that focus strictly on like internet addiction. So, okay, he agrees, cool.

So they drive him out there, they're like, yes, this is gonna be great, you know, Grant's gonna change, yippee ki yay, let's go. So they drive him out there to the facility, and the family pays $15,000 for him to receive 60 days of treatment, and then they all just kind of went back home. Cody and Chad, Chad's the father, Cody is the old, the middle child, remember? But they were able to hack into Grant's computer back at the house,

and then that's when they saw, like like this fake life that Grant was living online. This is when they find out the whole truth, you know? So they saw that Grant was claiming to be a successful gamer, who lived alone, had nice cars, and just where all this money was going. This is why I can't be a parent, because I would lose my shit. Well they decide just to take matters into their own hands, you know? Let's just reach out to all of Grant's friends

and reach out to this Sylvie lady and tell her the truth. So they did just that. They go on there, they message everybody. When Grant went to go talk to Sylvie, there's almost like a community. There's like a handful of people who were very loyal to Sylvie and were always almost like a community, there's like a handful of people who were very loyal to Sylvie and were always there when she went live and they all kind of became friends, they shared

this interest in Sylvie and kind of had a connection about that I guess, I don't, I'm not really sure, but he became friends with the people who also viewed Sylvie, so Cody and Chad they message everybody and pretty much tell them the truth, saying that Grant had been lying, that he actually lived at home, he had no job, he had a basic vehicle. They told Sylvie that Grant had been giving her stolen money from the family, and that they were no longer allowed to contact each other. Grant's in treatment, and he's there for two weeks.

After two weeks, Grant leaves the treatment center saying that he's cured, he's fixed, I'm healed. Wow, I'm all good now. Grant apparently, allegedly, he went to the treatment center and was just telling them everything that they wanted to hear. Pretty much the treatment center said that they really couldn't do anything for him.

So they just kind of, they let him go after two weeks. Grant goes back to the family home, and I don't really know why the family allowed him to come back home, but they did, and you know, we can't judge, we're not them. So on January 5th, Grant comes back home, and he's allowed to stay there, but he's gonna have some new rules

that Chad, his dad, put in place. So Chad and Grant sat down, and he gave Grant some ultimatums. Like you could either live in my house and follow my rules, or you could leave, move out or join the military. You know, if you stay in my home, then you are no longer allowed to have a cell phone. And if you do have a cell phone,

you're not allowed to have one that has internet access. So it's just like a little flip phone or something, you know? Grant would not be allowed to use the internet at night, and they were going to take away his computer out of his room, also that he needed to get a job and start paying off some of the debts that he owed. So this is what Chad is telling Grant, which sounds like what most parents would do, a lot of people do do this, usually to like a teenager, you know? But Grant is almost 30 years old. So it's like, come on Grant, get it together, man. You're an adult, get it together.

Now the biggest and the most upsetting rule, Grant was going to have to cut all ties with Sylvie. Like it was done, he was not allowed to contact her. So when Chad tells Grant like, you can't talk to Sylvie anymore, I think that's at the moment when he informs Grant, like, hey, we actually contacted her. And we told her the truth. And in my mind, that's probably the moment

that like really just set Grant off and probably just, I mean, that would be just embarrassing. And he's probably angry because he thinks he's in love with this woman. So Chad is trying to explain to Grant that you're literally putting a stranger that you've never met over your own family, and that now the family is financially struggling

because of this. And just trying to get through to Grant, like open his eyes, like it's not worth it. What are you doing? We're trying to help you. Now Grant agreed to these rules in order to stay in the house. It was said that Margaret, Grant's mother, she was more sad because her son, like her baby, she seemed to have like a soft spot for Grant but time went on and Grant was seeming to follow the rules, just trying to get his life together,

but it didn't really last long. I guess Grant would go to Margaret, his mother, ask if he could use her phone, because her phone could access internet, and Margaret would allow him to use her phone and talk to Sylvie on Twitter. On January 24th, Chad found out that Grant was using his mother's phone to still talk to Sylvie and told him that he needed to get out,

that he had ruined his retirement, and to still talk to Sylvie, and told him that he needed to get out, that he had ruined his retirement, and to just leave. Chad then left for work, Grant said that he was, you know, packing like a small bag, because he was gonna leave, and then Cody was at work as well, receiving text messages about what was going on back at home, because there was like an argument.

Around 9 15 p.m, Cody was done with his shift at work. He told his girlfriend that he had to go home and quote, deal with stupid shit, end quote, AKA the family drama thing that was happening, and he went home. On Friday, January 25th, 2019, the sheriff's office got a call from one of Cody's friends and coworkers.

He told the dispatcher that he was concerned because Cody hadn't showed up for work, plus Cody wasn't responding to any text messages, and according to this friend who had worked with and known Cody for years, said that Cody always had his phone on him, and that in the years that he knew him, never came late to work. So it was just strange that Cody wouldn't show up. Police went out to the home to perform a just strange that Cody wouldn't show up. Police went out to the home to perform a welfare check at 9.17 a.m.,

they knock on the door and they get no answer, the cars were in the driveway, and they also noticed that all the windows downstairs were covered with paper, so you couldn't even see in the windows. They were able to use a knife and open the lock on the door to the master bedroom, and then the police, you know, walk into the home and then they see the body of Chad lying on his back on the kitchen floor with blood just all around him. There was a pool of dried blood in two different areas

of the kitchen and also what seemed to be like claw marks through the smeared blood as if he was trying to crawl his way across the floor to get somewhere, maybe get to the phone, we're not sure. But there's photos, I wouldn't recommend it. I mean, it's better if you didn't. There was chicken on the counter defrosting and Chad's lunchbox was on the floor. It seemed like maybe Chad had just gotten home from work.

He went to the kitchen to unpack his lunch bag, take out the chicken maybe, and start dinner, when he was shot from behind. He also had a gun and holster on his right hip. They continue searching around the house and they find Margaret in her office. She's sitting in her chair and she's slumped over on top of her computer.

She had a glass of wine on the desk and her computer was open and she wasumped over on top of her computer. She had a glass of wine on the desk and her computer was open and she was shot from behind. Oh, I'm sorry, and she was dead. Same with Chad as well. They also find Cody who was dressed in his work scrubs laying on the floor by the door to the garage and he also had been shot and was dead. There was also a backpack near him

and there were two different handguns laying about five feet away from Cody and four bullet casings were found on the ground as well. At first, it appeared to be a murder suicide that Cody may have shot his mother, father, and then himself but once the crime scene was looked at more closely, they had reason to believe that this was indeed not a murder-suicide. Police had come out to the home previously,

and they knew that there was another son, Grant, who lived there, but he was nowhere to be found that day. The next day, Saturday, they were able to track down Grant's car at a Doubletree Hotel in Orange County, Florida, and police were able to find like which room Grant was in, and they knock on the door to get Grant. And on police body cam footage, you can see Grant like crawling on the ground when police come in,

and he turns around, he's on his knees, he turns around to be handcuffed. At this time, they had no evidence on Grant. There was no fingerprints found, there was no DNA linking to like a killer at all, there was no evidence on Grant. There was no fingerprints found. There was no DNA linking to like a killer at all. There was no murder weapon. It's believed that whoever had done this made sure to clean up afterwards and then stage the scene. So Grant wasn't under arrest.

He was just being taken in for questioning. And so Grant goes in for questioning and he would be there for over seven hours, just talking to investigators about what's been going on within the last few months, the problems they were having and the money problems, pretty much just everything we talked about right now. He was really honest, but he was,

he was like honest about the money and the girl and stuff. He didn't try and like make anything up, but he told investigators that Chad had confronted him about Sylvie on the night of the 24th, and that Chad told him he needed to leave the house. Grant said that he packed a bag and then he left the house, but before he left, Cody had stopped him and said that he would promise to take care of their parents and try to calm down the situation. Grant told investigators that when he left,

everyone was alive and fine. Grant was trying to set it up to investigators in a way that made it sound like Cody was going to talk to the parents and then he left the house and he had no idea what happened after that. So he's suggesting like, I don't know, Cody said he was gonna to deal with it. And you can actually watch the full questioning video on YouTube, but here's the kicker. Here's

the kicker, Grant. Grant, some of us are very observant. Okay. And we noticed something, Grant. He's claiming that he left the house and had nothing to do with anything, right? He's like, I left. I don't know if everyone was alive. I don't know. Well then Grant, how come in those hours of questioning, not once did Grant ask, hey, why am I here? What happened to my family? Why are you asking me about, why are you asking me questions in the first place? Hello?

So he's trying to give off this impression that he's completely innocent. He hasn't even been told what happened to his family yet. Okay? So, and Grant, if you're so innocent, why wasn't when police came into the hotel, you automatically got on your knees and turned around to be arrested?

If he knew what happened to his family, I would assume that you would not ask questions as far as like, why am I here and stuff. But if you didn't know, your first question would be like, what the hell, why am I here? Why are you knocking at my hotel door? Stupid ass, he's a stupid ass. Yeah, Grant didn't even ask.

About halfway into the interrogation is when finally one of the detectives pulls out like photos of the crime scene and shows it to Grant, asking him if that's you know, how he left the house, is that how your mother looked? And like shows him a picture of his mother's body. And he does again like, like, or, what about Chad and Cody, and shows Grant pictures of their bodies, and like the whole gory scene.

And Grant appears to be very upset, but claims that he had nothing to do with this. Grant said that the family had been blaming him for months, for ruining their lives, stealing from them, and not following any of their rules set in place, so he might as well be blamed for this too, like he was just being such a diva. Grant originally said that he had packed his bag, and then left the home around 9.30 p.m.,

and that his family was fine, and then his story changed, and he said he left around 12.30 in the morning, and spent the night in a grocery store parking lot, then drove to a job interview in the morning. Investigators were pushing, trying to get some kind of confession from Grant, but he stood by his innocence.

Grant's older brother, Jason, the one who lives on his own, and the only member that's still alive, well besides Grant, but Grant is a piece of shit. Jason comes down, he's called down and informed about what happened, obviously Jason's extremely upset, but they did allow a one-on-one meeting with Jason and Grant. You see Jason walk in and give Grant a hug, and then just sit down and press Grant for some answers,

asking him if he had anything to do with it, please just tell me, I need closure, I need to know, and I would be very upset if I heard from an attorney or the media that you did it instead of yourself, this is what Jason's saying to Grant. Jason just seems like kindest person ever, completely devastated that he just lost his whole family, and the only one who lived at that house and was still alive had no answers for him. Jason didn't seem like angry or aggressive at all,

just asking for the truth. It's just, oh, it's so sad to watch. Based on what I watched and heard and read in the court documents, it's like, it just seemed like this family really cared about one another, and it's just so heartbreaking. By the end of the meeting,

Jason tells Grant that he thought he had something to do with it, and that he just didn't know what to do now. Grant, though, stood by his innocence, but also just didn't even say much. I guess he just wasn't much of a talker in general, so it wasn't unusual. Grant was released on the 26th, because again, they had no evidence showing that he did it.

They had no fingerprints, no DNA, nothing linking him to the crime. So detectives knew that they were going to have to build like a really strong case against him in order to get a conviction. I mean, he's the only one who had a motive. Yeah, all signs are pointing to him, but there's actually no physical evidence

and that's where they were struggling. So they let him out, and... Investigators question anyone close to the family, and they get more information about Grant's relationship with his online girlfriend, the money. Cody's girlfriend told investigators that Cody had told her that he was afraid that Grant would kill everyone,

and at the same time, crime scene investigators are building their case. It was determined that it was not a murder-suicide due to many things. Cody, his body was on the floor next to the door, which led to the garage, but there was no blood on the door behind him or the door frame, which meant that the door had been opened when Cody was shot. So someone had to shut the door after Cody was shot. Like if you die, you can't shut a door.

Also, it was determined that Cody's body had been moved. There was a pool of blood at his feet and no blood near his head. So it was determined that his body was like moved around. Also, it was determined that Cody was shot from three feet away, which again proves that it wasn't a murder, like suicide. So it was determined that Chad was shot from behind

and that the first shot didn't kill him. So he was trying to like move across the floor and that's why there were like streaks in the blood showing that he was trying to move, but then he was shot again while on the kitchen floor. He was again kind of moved around in a way that made it look like Cody had shot him, and then Margaret was not moved, but she was shot from behind at her desk, and that just killed her. Grant was arrested and charged with three counts of premeditated murder.

On him they found a pair of leather gloves, a credit and debit card, which belonged to his father and brother Cody. He also had his passport with him, which led investigators to believe that maybe he was going to try and flee, go see his girlfriend Sylvie, you know? There was also a handwritten note found in Grant's possession signed from Cody. In the note, it pretty much said,

"'I'm sorry for what's going on, "'and I'll take care of it, don't worry.'" I'm not gonna go too much into detail about what it said, because it was later determined that it was written by Grant to kind of feed into the murder-suicide storyline that he was trying to create, which is pathetic because it was like his own brother. I'm like...

So his trial was in July of 2019, and he still claimed that he was innocent. Grant's team suggested that maybe someone broke into the house, maybe it was a drug deal gone bad, because they had found a small amount of marijuana in the home, so they were like, oh yeah, they were dealing drugs, how many drugs? There was lots of drugs, marijuana, oh my God,

their drug deal, like they just found that marijuana and was like, that's it, drug deal gone bad, you know? Based off forensic evidence, it was determined that Margaret was shot in the head from behind as she sat at her desk. The last activity on Margaret's computer was at 4.44 p.m. So it's believed that this, you know, kind of started at that time.

Cody and Chad were not home yet when Grant shot his mother. Then Chad came home, his father, around 5.30 p.m. He went to the kitchen to put his stuff away, get dinner started. That's when Grant quietly approached him from behind and shot his father. And investigators knew this because on Chad's iPhone, it was tracking all of his steps through one of those fitness apps, you know, the step counters.

So they could see how many steps Chad took and then when it stopped. Then Cody arrived home from work around 10 p.m. and he walked through the garage that connects to the house. He walked in the door and then that's when Grant just shot him. Then it said that Grant spent several hours at the home moving bodies around and staging it to look like, again, a murder-suicide.

Remember how I mentioned that there were four bullet shell casings on the ground? And it was determined that the four bullets that were found did not, or the shells, I should say, did not come from any of the handguns that were found in the home. They came from an unknown weapon, and the gun that it came from was never found. Also, Chad, the father, had a gun holster on his right hip

and it was later proved that this was placed on him after his death. There was a spot of blood on Chad's pants under the holster, which wouldn't have been able to get there if he was indeed wearing the holster when he was shot. Around midnight, it was determined that Chad had logged into his banking app on his iPhone using the fingerprint reader on the night that he had died.

Also, it was shown that money was transferred from Chad, his bank, to Grant's bank account through the app. Jesus, I know. When investigators looked at Chad's finger, they saw that it had been wiped clean, and it's believed that Grant cleaned his dead dad's finger, cleaned the finger, and then used it to log into his phone. What kind of special fucked up is that? When I read that, I was like, what the?

That same night after murdering his whole family, Grant also used Cody, his brother, his brother's credit card, to pay and watch Sylvie sending her over $600 while sitting in his car in the grocery store parking lot at three in the morning. So after he murdered his family, he drives to a grocery store parking lot, sits there and watches Sylvie.

What the fu- Yeah, yeah. I don't even know what to say. Just unbelievable. So they had found gloves in Grant's possession at the time of his arrest, and they were taken in to be tested for gunpowder residue, which it came back positive. Grant said that's because he wore these gloves all the time when he shot,

but numerous witnesses said that he rarely wore these gloves, like ever. On Grant's computer, a typed out letter was found by Grant to send to Sylvie and to some of his friends he made online, and this letter was typed two days before the murders. It's long, so I'll give you like a little summary. Pretty much Grant apologizes for lying about himself, and confesses that he isn't successful and that he lives at home, that he lied because he wanted to stand out to Sylvie and like get her attention.

Grant said that his family found out about the money spent and ambushed him, then forcefully made him go to a clinic for his unhealthy addiction to Sylvie and cam girls. He then goes on to say that everything his family mentioned to Sylvie was a lie to poison his image. He then says that he will never be able to forgive himself for making Sylvie sad and for betraying her trust in him.

He begs for her forgiveness and asks for quote, an actual second chance, end quote. Then going on to say that he will do whatever it takes to be able to show the real him. This letter is eight pages long, just begging for forgiveness and how he will never get over Sylvie and how he never plans to replace her.

And towards the end of the eight page letter, he says, I can't give up on her and I never will. She is my everything. I will give her my life to simply be able to make her smile again. Dramatic much? The jury spent, I believe, like eight hours and they come back and give Grant his verdict. Mind you, he showed no emotion during the trial.

Even when his older brother took the stand and just cried over his lost family, Grant just looked like a vampire. Like he kind of looks like this creepy ass vampire, and he was just cold, balding, emotionless, fragile looking vampire. I don't know, it was just like so uncomfortable to watch. In the very beginning, in like the opening statements, I believe Grant started crying when they showed pictures of,

you know, the parents and his brother's bodies to the jury, and throughout the whole thing though, just nothing, it was weird. But then I guess at one point they show the jury like a picture of Sylvie on this screen, and Grant, like his eyes are just kind of like fixated on Sylvie on the big screen, and it's just like, oh my god dude, really? Like your whole family's dead and you're still obsessed with her? I don't, yep. Anyways, the jury decided not to give him the death penalty,

instead they sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of parole. Grant Amato will be spending the rest of his life in prison, to this day he still claims that he is innocent, and when approached by media asking for an interview, he said he would be open to doing so, only if the company would maybe help cover costs to get him out of prison, or if they could put him in touch with a millionaire

who would help him get out of prison. Yeah, he thinks that's gonna happen. He still denied, denied, denied, denied, denied, even though all signs point to you, Grant. Grant says he has quite a few pen pals in prison and people support and stand by him and are rooting for him to get out. And you're probably wondering,

well, what the heck happened to Sylvie? Because yeah, I had questions too. Some people were thinking maybe Sylvie was involved somehow or maybe she was pressuring Grant to do it, or maybe to steal the money, you know? Maybe something more was going on. Well, I don't really know what happened to her, to be honest. I tried to find out.

Okay, I went through the court documents, mind you, there's like thousands of court documents, so I mean, maybe I missed it, but I couldn't find anything. There were two names on the witness list that were blacked out. I'm thinking that maybe that was one of, it was like maybe Sylvie, I don't know, we don't know. I'm assuming that Sylvie was questioned

because why wouldn't she be? I feel like that would make sense. But in the opening statements, it was suggested like Sylvie may not be her real name. So I was thinking that maybe Sylvie was like her cam girl name and she didn't want her real name out there in the public, like when it was, you know, in court and in the media and whatnot.

That's what I'm thinking, but I'm sure they questioned her. Right? They had to. I personally have a feeling that Sylvie, I don't think she had any idea of what Grant was really doing. I'm sure that she was just accepting the money from him. I mean, who wouldn't? You don't question every customer that comes

into your store. You just take the money and they get the fuck out. So I feel like she probably didn't know, but who knows? I don't know. So that is the horrible story about Grant Amato and what he did to his poor family. Rest in peace to Chad, Margaret and Cody Amato, whose lives were taken because of this selfish,

entitled brat, who sadly was their own son. Sheesh. Stories like this are just heartbreaking because it seems like this family truly was trying to do everything they could for their son or just their family in general. But Grant, who knows what the fuck was going on with him because he was acting like an entitled teenager,

a 30 year old teenager. It's just unbelievable. And like, for what? For some titties? Like, come on. What was his plan? Jeez, so many questions. What a gross human being. Thank you guys so much for hanging out with me today.

Let me know your thoughts down below. I think naturally a lot of people want to say like, well, why didn't the family do this and do that? It's like, well, you know, we don't know. We don't know and the whole thing is just sad. Poor family. I don't want kids because the whole thing is just sad. Poor family. I don't want kids because what if I have one of these shitheads?

Oh, I don't know what I would, I would be pissed. Thank you guys so much for hanging out with me today. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. Please, please, please stay safe out there. Make good choices. But most of all, if you have kids, I don't want to tell you how to parent, but make sure to monitor what your kids are doing online.

I love you guys, I appreciate you guys, and I'll be seeing you later. Bye. So today's story is legit, like the stuff of your nightmares. You know how like some people go to see or sit down and watch a horror movie, because you know, they like the thrill of being spooked scared curious maybe one of the things about horror movies horror movies unlike the stories i tell

here is that usually they're fake or exaggerated you know you can turn them off click go mimis go to bed for the most part anyways and you get like a sense of comfort knowing that the boogeyman, it was just a movie. The boogeyman's not coming for you. You know, you're old. But today's story kind of blurs the line between what's real and what's not. Today's story is about a crime inspired by a boogeyman and not the kind you find in the movies, so nay nay.

This boogeyman was born on the internet. I'm trying to be spooky because it's Halloween. Today's story takes place in a town called Waukesha, Wisconsin, let me guess, I said that wrong? But it's like a, it's a part of the Milwaukee metro area in Wisconsin. And it was founded in the early 1800s by pioneers as a water resort town,

and is most well known for its great tasting water. So living in this town is a girl named Peyton, and it was said that she's a sweet little brunette girl who always tried just to find the good in people. In fourth grade, Peyton met this girl named Morgan. Her and Peyton met this girl named Morgan. Her and Peyton like met and hit it off. Morgan was said to be a happy girl.

She was artistic. And also she was pretty clever for her age. That was mentioned, you know? And it was said that Morgan always liked telling jokes and she had a wild imagination that would keep things really fun. So the two of them hit it off pretty quickly and became the best of friends.

The two girls found a common interest in like fantasy, video games and science fiction. And they were pretty inseparable. When the girls were in sixth grade, Morgan kind of brought a new friend into the group. Her name was Anissa. And Morgan and Anissa had lived in the same apartment complex.

And also they rode the same bus to school together, you know? So they quickly became good friends. So naturally Morgan brought Anissa into the group with Peyton, right? And it was said that Peyton wasn't like the biggest fan of Anissa and she would only hang out with her because Morgan just seemed to like really love her. As some time goes on, Peyton starts to recognize that like maybe the friendship between her and Morgan are just

becoming not the same, right? It seemed like Morgan was becoming much closer to Anissa and not so much Peyton. Like maybe Anissa was kind of replacing her in a way. I don't know, when there's like a group of three friends, sometimes it feels like someone can get easily left out. And sometimes, especially when you're younger, there's some jealousy going on. It was around this time that their new friend Anissa,

I don't know if it's Anissa or Anissa, I kind of heard both, but I think it's Anissa. It was around this time that the new friend Anissa was telling Morgan like some creepy stories she had found and was reading on the internet. And they were stories about a man without a face. Oh yes. Not only that, this man without a face

would kidnap kids from all over the world and would like possess them and kill them or whatever. So Anissa is telling Morgan all of this and Morgan is like, what? Oh, she is intrigued. She is fascinated. She is engulfed by the story. Tell me more.

She just wanted to know everything and became completelyed by the story. Tell me more. She just wanted to know everything and became completely obsessed with the story. But Peyton was said to just not be as interested into this faceless man who steals kids as much as the other two girls were. She was like, that's actually terrifying and I don't want anything to do with it. Like the story scared her.

Peyton went to her mom and was like, hey, I heard this story. Like Morgan was telling me about this faceless man who steals kids and kills them or whatever. Like this isn't true, right? You know, cause she was getting real spooked over it. And Peyton's mom reassured her like, don't worry, like the story is most likely made up.

It's just a ghost story. Somebody probably made up on the internet. After having that conversation with her mom, Peyton goes back to Morgan and it was like, yeah, my mom told me that the story isn't true. Like, can you please just stop talking about it? Because honestly, it's kind of freaking me out. And you guys are like obsessed with it.

And I just don't want to talk about it. So she tells this to Morgan and Morgan thought it was funny or maybe she was just being a dick, but she, well, she just doesn't stop telling the story to Peyton. Kids, you tell them not to do something, what are they going to do? They're going to do it. And instead Morgan became even closer, but she, well, she just doesn't stop telling the story to Peyton. Kids, you tell them not to do something, what are they gonna do? They're gonna do it. And Miss Ann Morgan became even closer, you know, just over the story, because obviously Peyton's not interested in it,

so they're constantly researching about it online, feeding each other these scary stories, and just talking about it non-stop. Most of all, they're believing the stories that they're reading online to be true. These stories were not fake to the girls, like this faceless man that they were reading about existed in their mind, like he was real and you couldn't convince them otherwise. So on May 30th, 2014, the three girls would celebrate Morgan's 12th birthday. So Peyton, Morgan and Anissa, they went over to the local like roller rink. And then after that,

they decided to get some frozen yogurt. And then once that was all said and done, at the end of the night, they headed over to Morgan's house for a slumber party. You know, it's just like a pretty fun little birthday party with your friends when you're 12. Makes sense, great. Okay, so they're at Morgan's house, slumber party, great.

Now something was a little weird. Something kind of seemed a bit off because at the slumber party, Morgan said that she wanted to go to bed, like actually go to bed, which was weird because the girls had planned on staying up like as late as they could, or maybe even try to pull like an all-nighter.

You know, when you're a kid and you're like, let's pull an all-nighter. Morgan kind of announced like, I wanna go to bed. We are going to bed now. That was weird, something ain't right. Peyton felt like maybe she was missing something, you know? The next morning, it's May 31st and Peyton wakes up and she sees that the two girls, Morgan and Anissa,

they weren't in their beds, the beds were empty. So she gets up and she makes her way downstairs and that's where she finds the two girls like sitting in front of the computer. So Peyton asked them like, hey what are you guys doing? She gets no answer, they just ignored her. She's like, okay. So the girls got up eventually off the computer and they gathered around the breakfast table or whatever.

And they had like some donuts or something. And then afterwards they played some games. And then as some time passed, Morgan announced to the group of girls like, hey, we should go to the park. Doesn't that sound like fun, the park? And the other girls were like, yeah, let's go to the park. That'd be fun.

Like it's something you do, it's outside, it's not far. They could just walk there. So Morgan asked her mom and normally Morgan's mom would like make an adult go with them. But she figured, you know what? It's her birthday, it's her 12th birthday. She's with her friends. What kind of trouble could like they really get into?

What could really, you know, let me just give them their independence. So she said, yes, go ahead. And you guys just make sure to all stick together when you head to the park and don't lose each other. So the three of the girls are walking to the park and Anissa suggests that they should play a game of hide and seek.

So the girls are like, yeah, let's do it. That's a great idea. I love that idea, hide and seek. Morgan announced that she was gonna count first. You know, she's gonna be the one count. Peyton and Anissa are the ones who are gonna go off and hide. So Morgan goes by like a tree, starts counting, one, two. And then Anissa goes up to Peyton.

She's like, hey, you should like lay on the ground and cover yourself with sticks and leaves and like blend in with the ground. And that could be a great hiding spot. So Peyton was like, yeah, that's a great idea. Like I should do that. So she lays on the ground and she starts covering herself with leaves to hide in the ground.

Now Peyton is doing this when all of a sudden out of nowhere pops Morgan. So Morgan comes out of nowhere and she's like standing over her. She's holding a knife that she had taken from the kitchen. I'm not even sure if Peyton had a minute to process what was going on before Morgan started stabbing her best friend on the ground.

Now, she wasn't just stabbing her friend once or twice, not that it makes it any better or anything, but it wasn't just one or two times. Morgan stabbed poor Peyton 19 times. Like, that's a lot. 19 times? 19 times! Now, mind you you while Morgan is there stabbing away at poor Peyton, Anissa, Anissa, Anissa? I can't ever, okay Anissa, sorry I'm not laughing, I'm just

sorry. Anissa was right next to Morgan. There were some reports that said like she was holding Peyton down. And then there were some that were just saying like she was just standing there. But either way, she was there kind of rooting her on, Morgan, and didn't try to stop it. She was definitely there to help is what I'm getting at. But once the two of them felt that their job was done, Morgan and Anissa, they leave Peyton to die in the woods

and they take off. Now, luckily, unbelievably, miraculously, incredibly, all of the Blees, Peyton isn't dead. She's able to come to, she gets up, and then she's using the tree stumps that are around her, kind of like as support, cause she's stumbling trying to find her way kind of like as support, cause she's stumbling, trying to find her way out of the woods

into a grassy area that's kind of near the main road where she was hoping someone would see her. And she's able to make it out there. Like it's incredible. Not even long after she got out of the woods, this person riding a bicycle came by at that exact moment and saw her, called 911 immediately. Incredible, you know, like, wow.

Peyton said that she remembered she was like fading in and out of consciousness as the EMTs rushed her to the hospital for emergency surgery. Now when she got there, the doctors saw how bad her injuries were and they were like pretty shocked that she was able to get up and, you know, move. She had some pretty deep wounds on her arms and legs, but the biggest issue was that there was two stab wounds in her torso area that hit major organs. So one of them caused some serious damage

to her liver and stomach. And also on top of that, there was another stab wound that went straight to Peyton's heart. Peyton later found out that if the stab wound to her heart had been just like a millimeter over, just a smidge, she would have died. A millimeter is like as thick as a single strand of human hair. So doctors are like, yeah you almost died. She's, yeah, I freaking know. I was there, thanks. I kind of hate that. Like when they tell you something like that,

it's like, do I want to know? Yeah, I almost died. I know that's what happened. Like I'm here, right? Yep. So Peyton, after surgery, she had to be put on an oxygen. She was having a hard time breathing on her own and she was in pretty bad shape, but she was alive, you know?

And like she was on her way to fully heal, which is incredible. While she was laying in her hospital bed, they gave her a whiteboard. Well, investigators came in. They gave her a whiteboard trying to communicate with her, like who attacked you? Can you write down on the whiteboard who attacked you?

So she writes down Anissa and Morgan, right? She knows, hello? Yeah, they did it. Go get them. But get this, at this point, by this point, police had already arrested Morgan and Anissa. Oh yes. They were kind of like ahead of the game for once.

I know, wow. Rare here on Murder Mystery Makeup, is it not? But good for them, good for them. So the day of the crime, police had actually spotted both of the girls walking and they were like five miles away from the park. They were near a local furniture store. So police kind of spot them.

It's kind of like a peculiar situation because both of them are covered in blood. For that reason alone, police are like, maybe we should pull over and ask what's going on. So they do just that. They pull over and police is like, hey, what's that about? The girls tell police that they were on their way

to Wisconsin's Nicollet National Forest. Nicollet, like the gum? Is that it? National, anyways, they're on their way to some national forest that was like not that far away. Police notice that Anissa, she wasn't doing much talking. Okay, she seemed pretty shaken up. She was trembling a little bit.

She seemed to be very bothered. Something wasn't right with her. So then police ask if there's anything in their pocket and that's when they find a bloody knife on them. So Anissa starts talking and she tells police, she just was saying some nonsense that wasn't making any sense to them. She kept saying how he, I'm using quotes here,

he could read minds and teleport places. And police are like, you know, who's he? What are you talking about? So they're trying to get answers, but they're not getting any clear answers. So eventually some of the truth comes out, and they tell police that they needed to kill their friend Peyton, because a man by the name of Slender Man told them to. Slender Man. Yep, this is about Slender Man.

Okay, so you're probably like, who's Slender Man? Either you know the story or you don't. But let me explain this Slender Man for those of you who don't know. I didn't know the full story, the Slender Man situation. I remember seeing the pictures and it was like, what the hell? There's an online forum called Something Offer. There's an online forum called Something Awful.

And back in 2009, this forum is where Slender Man was created. If you don't know what a forum is, an online forum, it's like a online message board where you can have, where people can like just create usernames, great, and have discussions and hold conversations on certain topics. I had to Google it,

because I was like, what is an online forum? Like, what's the definition? That's pretty much it. On this forum, Slender Man was introduced. And he at this time also, well in the beginning, I think, I don't know, there was a time when he went by the name Victor Surge. And that's because the creator of the Slender Man story,

his online username was Victor Surge. So originally that's what this character was named. So yeah, but most people just know this character as Slender Man because according to the story, that's exactly what he looked like. According to the online forum and just myths circling around the intronet, Slender Man was said to usually be found in the woods or like in some dark abandoned

location. It was said that he was abnormally tall, anywhere from six to 15 feet. And he had the ability to change his height depending on the situation he was in. I guess if he needed to go under a bridge, he was like, I'm shorter now, you know, a doorway. He's like, meh.

He was described as having long tentacle-like arms that would grow in length, but are to grab or lure victims in. Slender Man was said to have no face, no hair, no ears, or maybe he was just unfinished, like the Mona Lisa or something, we don't know. But when you saw him, he gave you the creeps. It was said that he wore a business suit

because he was professional, great. And then many believed that the suit was actually like some form of skin molded into the appearance of a suit. This demon looking fella was described as being highly intelligent and would evolve to match his environment. You know, just in case he needs to blend in more, even though he had no face, no hair,

no ears or anything, blend in, sure, okay. He was known to be very dangerous, extremely dangerous at that, stalking and kidnapping people, bringing them into a wooded area where he would remove the victim's organs and place them in baggies. So I was like, okay, what's he, okay, so what's he doing with the baggies. So I was like okay was he okay so what's he

doing with the baggies of organs and it never really said what he was doing with the baggies of organs. Maybe he was selling them. I couldn't find an answer but okay. And when he lured and snatched a victim up he would then pass on something called the slender sickness. It kind of sounds like a diet plan where you would get sick and probably lose a lot of weight, food poisoning. But according to the story, after being stopped or even having an encounter

with the slender man, it would lead to the sickness, which would consist of mostly coughing fits, sometimes coughing up blood, sometimes people would experience nausea, paranoia, random nosebleeds would occur. Some would even say that the sickness would cause a fever or amnesia and have no memory as to like what happened. It was said once someone got the slender sickness it would cause the victim to go absolutely insane, torturing their mind until the person gave in, causing harm to themselves, or even leading the victim to murder someone

on behalf of the Slender Man. Do do do do do do do do do do do. I know. Now, depending on what website or forum you were looking at, it would have different descriptions or stories about what the Slender Man was capable of, why he was doing what he was doing, but for the most part that was kind of like the gist of it. Now the Slender Man was created by a

guy named Eric Knudsen and he created an image of this Slender Man for a Photoshop contest for the website that we mentioned earlier called something awful so they're having this photoshop contest and they're challenging the users to create some kind of paranormal spooky creepy image something that would just give you the creeps but looks legit it was just for shits and giggles so eric said that he had submitted two black and white images. It was a picture, a real picture of a group of children. Both of these pictures had some children in it. But he took the photo and he photoshopped in this character he created, Slenderman.

And he's kind of like lurking in the background, looking all creepy-like. Like it's honestly very creepy. And then to make it even more believable, Eric said that he added some quotes to the photos to just make them look more legit. And honestly, when you see quotes with like a date and stuff for some reason you just believe it, right? Don't lie.

You just kind of like, okay, yeah, wow. Quotes must be legit. If you don't know any better, you would believe. Yeah, I believe, oh, seems legit. He's trying to win this Photoshop competition, good for him. It scared me, I thought Slender Man was there. But luckily this was just for this Photoshop group

and it wasn't a real story, right? So Eric, the creator of Slender Man, said he was inspired by the work of writers like Stephen King and H.P. Lovecraft, as well as from different video games like Silent Hill and Resident Evil. But he was especially inspired by an old movie called Phantasm.

There's a villain in this movie called the Tall Man. So he pulls inspiration from different areas. And again, it was just all for fun. Now, I don't know if Eric won the contest or not, but he did submit the images, right? So they're out there on the internet. But very quickly, the Slender Man photos became like the hottest thing on the internet.

At first, it was just people expanding on Eric's original two photos. So some were just taking the photos and kind of adding or changing little things to them, either adding more elements to the photo and making them a little bit creep adding or changing little things to them. Either adding more elements to the photo and making them a little bit creepier or a little bit scarier. People were just really liking the story and really building on it.

And not long after there was like Slender Man fan art popping up. There was Slender Man cosplay and a bunch of fictional horror stories that started spreading like wildfire. It was just ending up everywhere, growing bigger and bigger and becoming a thing of its own, like bigger than what Eric had ever envisioned for this Photoshop contest, you know? And then like there was even a YouTube series

inspired by the Slender Man myth that came out in 2009 and it was called Marble Hornets. Marble Hornets, I don't know why it's hard, Marble Hornets, thank you, was basically like a bunch of video diary entries mixed with found footage, videos about Slender Man. And again, it was all just fake and for fun, but it was a really big, big hit

and it went on for three seasons, which is great. Good old fun. Reminder, Slender Man was a completely made up story using the imagination. for three seasons, which is great. Good old fun. Reminder, Slender Man was a completely made up story using the imagination. Slender Man was getting bigger and bigger and it got to a point where people like really didn't know that this was a fake story anymore because it had grown into such a big thing.

No one knew that it stemmed from this Photoshop forum. I think you and I can sit here and be like, oh my God, that's fake. How do you think that's real? But again, if you're a kid, you're like, oh my God, that's fake. How do you think that's real? But again, if you're a kid, you're like, oh my God, this is real. Like, there's a picture. In 2012, there were Slender Man inspired video games,

movies, tons of videos on YouTube. Us YouTubers just spreading our little gossip, aren't we? And it was just everywhere. Slender Man was the new Sasquatch. The more that this story is going round and round, again, the more people are just believing it to be true, which leads us back to Morgan and Anissa, because they came across these Slender Man stories,

just like many other people out there. And because there was so much information about Slender Man or stories and whatnot, it was like easy to believe. So when Morgan and Anissa were arrested, they had claimed that they were on their way to join the Slenderman who was said to be living at his mansion in the National Forest.

So that's where like they were walking to. And the girls truly believed at this time that if they didn't murder their friend, Peyton, the Slenderman was going to come after them and kill their families. They went on to say that they had to kill Peyton in order to protect their own family from the Slender Man. I know it sounds just absolutely wacko.

Now, Morgan and Anissa get this though. So Morgan and Anissa, they actually admitted that they had been planning this stabbing for towards their friend they're playing on killing their friend for a long time a long time okay they were i'm not just talking about weeks here i'm not talking about weeks days no they have been planning this attack for months and both of them admitted that they actually thought about killing peyton while she was asleep during the sleepover at the birthday slumber party, remember? It was said that Morgan wanted to go to bed super early and she was like super eager to go to bed. She's like, let's go to bed. And it

was just kind of weird because they originally had planned to do it that night. Super fucked up. These are children. These are 12 year olds. So after all of this information came out, came to light, you know, obviously the two girls were arrested. So after all of this information came out, came to light, obviously the two girls were arrested. So Morgan was charged with attempted first degree homicide as she should, she just tried to murder her best friend. Anissa was charged with attempted second degree homicide. It's probably because Morgan was the one

who actually did the stabbing, but she was there. She was like a sidekick, you know? But because of the serious nature of the charges, both of them were going to be tried as adults. Now, again, they were only 12 years old. So this was kind of like a hot debate. Lots of mixed feelings on that one. So while they waited for their trials,

Morgan, while incarcerated, started acting a little odd. She was, something wasn't right. And it was to the point where it seemed that she was kind of, she wasn't well. She's not well, Morgan. Morgan went on to say that she started seeing unicorns in her cell with her. And she started treating the ants in her jail cell

like they were her pets. I don't see a problem with that, but it was off. And apparently she was even having conversations with the Slender Man himself inside of her cell. Morgan was moved to a mental hospital for a couple of months and was placed under a 24-hour observation to determine if she was competent enough to stand trial, you know? So they gave her a psychological evaluation where they concluded that she had early onset schizophrenia and because it was early onset or whatever, the judge determined that she was still capable

of standing trial. Oh, side note, turns out Morgan's dad was also diagnosed with schizophrenia at the age of 14. Now at this time, Morgan was 12. So it's like almost around the same time that two years apart and her dad, her father had never received treatment, but luckily I guess, yeah, luckily they,

I don't think there is a luckily here, Bailey, but you know, they found it in Morgan and you know, at least now they can continue to give her the help that she needs. About a year and a half after the attack, Morgan was finally moved to a state mental hospital and put on medication to help treat her schizophrenia. In September of 2016, Morgan accepted a plea bargain

and agreed to be placed in a mental institution instead of going to a typical prison. So the judge granted this and gave her a 40 year sentence at the institution, which is the maximum allowed. That's a long time. But I mean, she tried to kill her friend. Let me change into my costume. I know, I feel like it's a little inappropriate.

I was stalling because when is a good time to put on this damn costume? And I'll be right back, hold on. I'm a bee. Okay, hold on. Get it together, Bailey Bailey you're a bee we get it a few weeks earlier Anissa had also accepted a deal and pleaded guilty she was facing at least three years in a mental hospital but a way better deal right three years so during the hearing Anissa submitted a letter saying that she was like, super sorry, deeply regretful for the agony, pain, and hurt she had caused. And after three and a

half years, Anissa was released after petitioning that she was no longer a threat to anyone else. I don't know if that's good. I don't know. I don't know. Like I was trying to think like, normally, you know, I have a little comment like they should be in prison longer but it's like I don't know. What they did was awful. I'm not trying to make an excuse or erase any of that. What they did is freaking awful and they made adult choices. They made adult choices and tried to murder their friend at 12 years old and that's very disappointing right? That it no no no but then there's the other side and it's like they're 12 years old your brain is you're stupid as hell you're believing some story

you see on the internet like i could see how that happens but you made an adult i don't know i don't know but listen the slender man made me do it story was not like a one-time thing oh nay nay in june of 2014 there was a 13 year old girl in cincinnati ohio who was in the family kitchen she's sitting there one night and she's waiting for her mom to come home from work now this girl was wearing a dark hoodie and the hood was all the way up it's kind of like covering her face and her hair a little bit you know her sleeves of the hoodie were pulled down to cover her hands and she was wearing a white mask over her face creepy she waited in the dark in the kitchen for her mom to come home she's her mom comes walking in when suddenly this girl attacks her mother with a knife now fortunately

that her her mother was able to get control of the situation with only minor injuries to her neck, face, and back. Her mom told reporters that she knew her daughter had mental health issues, but she never imagined something like that would happen. Okay like, it was just, it was like out of nowhere. She said it was almost like her daughter was another person during this attack. And her daughter said that she didn't even remember the attack taking place.

So during the investigation, they found this girl's journal and she had written entries in her journal that talked about, you guessed it, Slender Man in her diary. She's like, Slender Man. Throughout her journal entries, she was mentioning Slender Man over and over again. She was completely obsessed with Slender Man. Throughout her journal entries, she was mentioning Slender Man over and over again. She was completely obsessed with Slender Man. I mean, so much so that she even created a world

for the Slender Man in the game Minecraft. So when the mom learned about how another girl named Peyton got stabbed by a group of girls in the name of Slender Man, she was convinced that her daughter was under the same kind of influence or like reading the same kind of Slender Man, she was convinced that her daughter was under the same kind of influence or like reading the same kind of story and whatnot, you know? There is also another Slender Man case,

and it's a story of a girl named Lily Hartwell. Now in September of 2014, a 14 year old girl in Port Richey, Florida, she soaked a towel and bed sheet in bleach and rum during the middle of the night. She's like, I have an idea. She went to the garage and she lit it on fire, which is not cool. And especially not cool because her mom

and her nine-year-old brother were asleep inside the house. Lily, this girl, she's watching the fire get bigger and bigger and she's, she peaces out. She's like, bye. And she leaves the house and she walks to the nearby park. Fortunately enough, the smoke alarm woke her mom up and she grabbed her son and she was able to make it out of the house completely unharmed.

When she didn't see her daughter, she's like, oh my God, my daughter's inside. She ran back into the house to look for her. And she ends up running into house, not once, not twice, but three different times i mean it's her daughter and she's she's assumed that she's inside the house somewhere you know i mean of course the mom is probably gonna go looking luckily mom and her son was able to get out of the house before it was completely destroyed in the fire not long after uh the mom

she was receiving text messages on her phone from her daughter. Now the text messages said something like, "'Mom, I'm so sorry. "'I don't know why I did it. "'Did any of you get hurt?' I'd be like, did any of us get hurt, you motherfucker? "'Have you heard of orphanage?' So cops, they would end up finding Lily Marie

sleeping in the bathroom at the park. She was taken into custody and charged with two counts of attempted murder and one count of arson. So during questioning, Lily Marie admitted that she had an obsession with violent stories about Slender Man. They also found her diary, and she wrote about the Slender Man a handful of times,

describing her thoughts and desires on killing people and how she would do it. So while the police never officially went on the record saying that Slender Man was the cause for this arson and and whatnot, it definitely seemed like it played some kind of part or role in the situation and influence you know. There are probably more instances about the Slender Man, but I am, this video is running very long, isn't it? So fortunately, due to the attention that the Slender Man was getting in association

with this freaking awful crimes, popularity in this Slender Man, man, dipped quite a bit. But it didn't really stop people from making, you know, big budget feature films about Slender Man. Like in know, big budget feature films about Slender Man. Like in 28, there was a movie about Slender Man and went nationwide or something. The reviews weren't that great. People didn't really seem to like it.

But many of the original Slender Man entries or posts that were online have been taken down over time. But there's still many out there. You could still find lots of stories about Slender Man and whatnot, but I feel like because it came to light in the news and whatnot, more people were aware that it was a fake story.

Does that make sense? These crimes, these situations also fueled the fire for a never ending debate about the role the internet plays on society and how it affects or even influences the younger generations. You know, how does one prevent something like this happening again? Ban kids from the internet? I mean, come on, that's not the answer. I mean, there are even some grown adults who are very gullible too.

It happens, you know, especially with the Photoshop picture looks good with a caption. People believe anything on the internet and it's just not the younger generation, you know? And laws have not caught up to where the internet is at and something needs to be done, but nobody has like an answer as what needs to be done. Do you? Would love to hear down below because we need answers, babe. So that my friends is the awful story

about two friends attempting to murder their other best friend, all because of this Slender Man situation that turned out to not even be real. Some friends those are, huh? Could you imagine? Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I don't know how you guys are doing it, honestly, like raising kids with this technology. Like, I give you guys a lot of credit, you parents out there. I don't know how you're doing it. I don't know how you stay ahead of the technology and what your kids are doing online. I couldn't imagine how difficult that is on top of your own life and chaos and all that stuff. It's like how, I don't know. I don't know how you guys do it. I could not imagine.

I could not imagine. I could not imagine. Let me know your guys' thoughts down below. But other than that, I hope that you have a wonderful rest of your day. I missed you. I'll see you next week with another Halloween look. I'm a bee today. Let me know who you guys want me to talk about next week.

But other than that, I had too much coffee today. I'm not gonna be able to sleep, am I? I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. You make good choices. I love and appreciate you so much, and be safe out there. Be safe out there, you get it? And I'll be seeing you guys, be seeing you guys later.

Bye. Let's talk about today's story because it's interesting let me tell you it makes for a really interesting discussion and you'll see so in the comment section i'll be like reading what you're saying because um it's interesting cannibal let's talk about it. Great. So today we're talking about like it's the strange story of this guy named Gilberto Valli. And you know, he's a man who once swore to protect and serve the people of New York City. You know, he was known to his friends and his colleagues as a dedicated police officer. But Gil, he harbored a sinister double life that would shock everyone. Oh my god. He was dubbed the cannibal cop by the media, and his arrest revealed a web of twisted fantasies, detailed plans, and a very dark descent into the world of cannibalism.

Oh, you know, if you've been watching me for a long time, you know, cannibalism is always like an interest. Is that okay to say? Am I? Yeah, like, it just fascinates me because it's so far removed of anything I've ever experienced, right? Cannibalism, right? Okay, great. So, you know, it's like, was was Gil a monster? Or was he just a man with a dangerous imagination? Well, we'll see. I'm just gonna say right off the bat, I know YouTube is gonna demonetize my ass today because we are talking so much about cannibalism

and it gets real dark. If you have kids around, maybe don't let them listen. Put earmuffs on them because it gets pretty pretty heavy. So Gilberto. Gilberto Valley III was born on April 14th 1984 in Queens New York. He had siblings he had I think he was the oldest brother and he had like two younger siblings. It was said that in the household his parents parents, they fought a lot and they ended up getting separated when Gil was like five years old. Now I have to say right off the bat that Gil, he actually wrote a book after all this happened. So he wrote a book about the

whole experience and I read that. I read it and it's wild. But a lot of the stuff I'm talking about today, like I got from his book. So according to his book nothing significant happened like in his upbringing. He said that he grew up in a quiet safe neighborhood in Queens, New York where for the most part like nothing really happened. Gil would say that during his childhood there was like a lot of trips to theme parks he had a lot of friends he was popular in school which at first he said like in elementary school and whatnot he wasn't popular like he was really quiet but then as he got older he became popular in school but he got really good grades and he played baseball at the age of 11 gil said that he started getting those sexual fantasies that boys start to experience, you know, around this age.

But he said that his fantasies were a little different. He found himself to be interested in bondage and S&M stuff. Yeah, like 11. All right, good for him. You know, he didn't know why he was interested in these things, but the interest chose him. He didn't choose the interest. So Gil said he would always fantasize about girls

and like imagine them tied up and like that's just what he was into. So he ended up going to Archbishop Malloy High School, private Catholic high school. He got in on like a partial scholarship, I think for baseball. He was really good at it. And then when he was there, he played on the baseball team. He said, you know, it was the 90s and like a lot of kids in the 90s, he was introduced to the internet, AOL specifically. This was an exciting time. AOL, it was so fun. He said he would like,

you know, log in like many of us did, go was so fun. He said he would like, you know, log in like many of us did, go into chat rooms, pretend to be someone else, be like ASL. And nobody knew who he was online. He could be whoever he wanted. I mean, it was fun. It was exciting. And again, he would often end up in like chat rooms just talking to random people. So like most kids in the beginning, you know, it was fun, exciting chat rooms and all that. And then naturally, naturally everyone ends up, you know, you end up looking at porn. And what I'm getting at is that he found porn for the first time. Now this was exciting. Naked people, he's like, I'm in. So on his free time, just surfing the web. But during high school is when Gil said that he kind of like first fell. He fell in love for like the first time.

He met a girl named Melanie. So him and Melanie became good friends. And he wanted more, but, you know, she didn't feel the same way. And according to Gil, again, in his book, he went in on his book. There are so many paragraphs about what he liked to jerk off to. I was like, wow, he's really just sharing this. All right. In his book, he would say that he was fantasizing about this girl all the time. And when he would fantasize about her, it was always, you know, intense. He was thinking about her like tied up gagged helpless it was like a lot and he even said like in his mind she was always in all sorts of peril and then he would uh fantasize

about her being cooked and and eaten as one does you know as one does And this is just what he was in now. He's like, yeah. So around this time he found more intense like bondage scenarios online. He liked looking at pictures of women being held against their will and he would bust one out over it. It's just, all right, you know, shit. I don't know what to say.

And I'm not here to kink shame, not here to kink shame. It's just what he was into. So he finishes high school and he ends up going to college and he gets, I think he gets a degree in psychology and then he picks criminal justice as his second major. And he goes to like the University of Maryland in 2006. So Gil would say, you know, during his college classes, it was difficult to focus because the girls there were just gorgeous. And it was really funny to me because in his book, he went on to say what he did not do. Let me tell you. Like he said he would not sit in class and daydream about how he wished he could be hog tying and gagging every good looking woman in the room.

He did not. That's what he said in the book. And then he also said that he did not go around looking at beautiful women while secretly imagining them trussed up like a turkey or roasting on a rotisserie. No, he didn't do any of that, he said. I was like, all right, sure. Okay. All right. But he did not do that of that, he said. Mm-hmm. I was like, all right, sure. Okay. All right.

But he did not do that. Gil did well in college. He said that he had a typical college experience. He would go to parties. He would hang out with friends. He played pranks on people like all the guys did, you know. And he hooked up with girls. According to him, though, like, he didn't have sex with anyone.

He just, like, messed around with girls. But he never had, like, sexual relations with girls. According to him though like he didn't have sex with anyone. He just like messed around with girls but he never had like sexual relations with anyone. During fall semester of his junior year he was living in a dorm with a kid they called Rain Man. That was like his nickname and I guess Rain Man had a variety of porn DVDs, like a big collection. Okay. And this is where Gil was like introduced to different fantasies he didn't even know existed. So this got him curious and really just wanting more. So he started like searching for this stuff on the internet.

There was one he specifically mentioned. It was like this porn DVD where it was like this lady, she's living and then she dies and she goes to hell. And then she gets like gang banged by like Satan's helpers or something. And he was like, this one did it for me. It was like, okay, all right. So he's searching the web, looking for more, right?

And he comes across this website called Mookies. I think it's Mookie's Kitchen not sponsored it's like a fetish website but it's based around cannibalism yeah and it's like this website where he's first introduced to something like this the whole cannibalism situation so this was like the first intro to something like this. He thought it was like just something in his imagination that maybe he made up. You know he just didn't know that this genre existed. So this website kind of led him to more and more websites with cannibal related porn and also message boards. And it's the message boards where he got an intro into like people writing fictional stories about their sexual fantasies. Creative writing sessions, you could say.

He said that some of the stories that stuck out to him were gory and involved fantasies of kidnapping and cooking non-consensual victims. So Gil said after discovering these websites he no longer worried like if there was anything wrong with him you know like that kind of guilt and shame because it made him realize that there were other people out there who were into this as well you know and it was like oh cool like i'm kind of normal you know but still at this point you know he kept this all secret he never like shared his fantasies with anyone. And he just kept all this to himself. So in the middle of his senior year of college,

he like left for the weekend to go back to New York and take the NYPD exam. You know, he decided that he wanted to work for the police department after he graduated college. Well, he ended up doing really well and passing. So that's great, I think. So after college, he ended up like moving back to New York and he lived with his father while he continued like the application process

to work for NYPD. Oh, no, why eyeliner gods why okay don't panic it comes right off okay great part of this process of like working for nypd they had to do like a psychological exam and also they had to do or he had to do like a face-to-face evaluation with the psychologist, you know, to make sure that he's mentally well enough to work for the police department. So Gil, of course, he said, of course, like he didn't bring up his fetishes and stuff because he didn't see a reason as to why he should. Understandable. So while going through the hiring process, he was still looking up, you know, his cannibal related pornography. And then I guess he started like using Facebook to seek out pictures of women he knew in like

sexy clothing or bikinis for his own visual fantasies. During his police trainings, it was said that they would send like all the rookies to like really rough parts of the neighborhood to like patrol and learn. And you know, it was a high stress job. It was rough, but he made it through. So on his downtime when he wasn't working, you know, he's still visiting his favorite sites and a lot of different forums. And there was one that he visited like all the time because daily there were new photos uploaded and new stories and it was like very exciting and he always had something to like get off to you know then gil said he like

considered contributing and like writing some things on these forums but he would dismiss it thinking like if anyone found it it would be really embarrassing and it just seemed way too risky. So in 2009 Gil created a dating profile on eHarmony and OkCupid because he had heard from like the guys at work that you know it was successful for them and he's like okay maybe it'll work out for me. So he said he went on a couple of dates but then he ended up like getting ghosted. Yeah it happens and at this point in 2009 he had been working for the NYPD for like three years now but he was ready to find a partner and you know maybe something more you know but it was hard. Still after work he would browse the web and do his thing there. And eventually it led him to this website called the Dark Fetish Network or DFN.

Now, I guess it was like the intro to DFN that really got him excited. This is what it says, I guess. I didn't check. I didn't want to like put it on my computer. But the intro to it says like, welcome to the social network where you won't feel like an outcast because of your dark fetish. Why? Because this place is created by people like you for people like you. Isn't that like a logo for something, a saying for something else? Like PBS? This program was made possible by contributions to your PBS station from viewers like you. Anyways, so feel free to look around,

meet some crazy, in a good way, people and become part of our growing adults only 18 plus community. Please also remember that this place is about fantasies only. So play safe. So Gil sees this and he's like, hell yeah, I'm in. So he creates a profile. And you know, when you create a profile, you have to make a username. So Gil created a profile on DFN with the username girlmeathunter. Girlmeathunter. Like girlmeat, girlmeathunter. So that's good. So that's good. Could only go up from here, really, huh? So he wrote in his bio that he was interested in fantasies

involving kidnapping, bondage, and cannibalism. This is a side note, but this is the part that kind of made me like, there's a lot of parts that made me kind of like, but this part was uncomfortable because what they do on the site, and it's normal for them to do this on the site, is that they would pull pictures or photos of people from Facebook, like usually chicks. And then they would post it on this website and in the photo or what they would do to the person in the photo. You know, it was like their dark sexual fantasies.

And again, it's just fantasy, but some of it was like really gory and shit too. Or it was like, I want to slit her throat and let her bleed out and then eat her flesh. And it's like, it's cute and all until it's your photo that's being used. You know? It's like, shit. Ugh. But I guess that's what they do on there. But Gil really liked this because he was pulling photos off of Facebook anyways before all this

and like using it for his own fantasy. So now it was kind of like acceptable because everyone else was doing it so again it was like this whole thing that made Gil really start engaging more with this website because he was taking a lot of photos from Facebook and like people that he actually knew like he was personally friends with he would take their photos he would go on DFN and post, again, asking the people like, what would you do with her? And again, comments would be filled with like, people's dark fantasies. All right. All right. During this time, Gil had his routine. He was living at his father's. He was working a lot. He was going on dates occasionally and then spending his free

time on dfn or like other fantasy websites same thing different day you know so again 2009 gil's on these dating websites and he ends up meeting a woman named kathleen on ok cupid now by this point gil is 25 and according to him still a virgin not that there's anything wrong with that but you know he's kind of like ready to get it over with anywho so he meets Kathleen and she was like she was like new in town and was working with uh Teach for America at an elementary school in New York okay so they connect they meet whatever they decide to go on their first date which they went out to dinner and just like see a movie and the two really hit it off. According to Kathleen Gil seemed to be a very nice positive she said moon-faced cop and I was

like what does that mean moon-faced but I think she means literally like moon face like round i think i don't know anyways but they liked each other and they became inseparable gil said after their first date kathleen became the new starring role in his fantasies again this was all in his book this is what he said he said like he would imagine her being chloroformed and kidnapped and then laid out on a platter with an apple in her mouth. He did not hold back in this book. I was like, all right, okay. Now, of course, he did not share this with her. He didn't want to freak her out.

He knew it'd be too much. But a couple of weeks after dating, the two became official. Woo, Gil's got a girlfriend finally. After a year of dating they moved in together into like he said a small overpriced Manhattan apartment and they extended their family and they got a bulldog because Kathleen loved bulldogs. Her college mascot was a bulldog so she's a big fan and so they got a dog and then as many do know, they got into their routine as a couple. Kathleen would later say that these early years of their relationship were fun.

They laughed all the time. He was chivalrous. How do you say that word? Chivalrous. You know what I'm trying to say. But he like pulled out chairs and stuff. He was that. He opened doors. Chivalry. Anyways, he was nice. She said like, you know, she didn't know about his online curiosities and like there was nothing really to know.

Not yet, at least. And according to Gil, he treated women respectfully, never threatened anyone, and didn't even have sex until he met Kathleen. So January 2011, Kathleen finds out she's pregnant. That's great, right? I don't know. It is. I mean, she seemed happy. I guess like when Gil first heard that she was pregnant, he kind of like freaked out and was like can't do this he was thinking like financially he's like I don't know if we can like actually freaking do this right it's scary it just it freaked him out a bit obviously not the response you want when you're telling your partner like I'm pregnant and they're like what so it was like kind of disappointing but him and Kathleen sat down and they like went through everything and were like we can make this work and we're gonna make it work gave each other pep talks whatever but you know they were gonna do it

and they would so after having this conversation and realizing that he could do it financially and all that stuff he really welcomed the idea and was like looking forward to this next chapter in his life in Gil's book he said that he was constantly working trying to like find a place where they could start their family he borrowed money from his retirement or something like that to make sure that like they would have the best of everything for the baby plus he said that he was like reading all these books about parenting because he wanted to be the best parent that he could and i was reading that and kind of like rolling my eyes I was like sure buddy you want to believe him but like okay sure because on the other hand Kathleen you know she did interviews

and stuff and she said that Gil never really seemed to uh adjust to their expanding life she said that like Gil never really seemed interested in her or her pregnancy and that he would just kind of like walk around the apartment just sighing like being mopey and that he just seemed miserable really kathleen said that she felt like she was wasting his time or something like damn sorry for the inconvenience sir regardless you know a baby was on the way. So the two, they moved into like a bigger apartment in Forest Hills. And then they welcomed their baby girl in September of 2011. I'm just looking a little too natural.

I need a thicker concealer. So just because he now had a baby girl does not mean that he was going to stop with his interest. You know, he was still playing around on DFN. And at this point, he became like pretty well known on the website. I guess Gil was a pretty good writer and people really like to read his fantasies. You know, the stories. And he even had like friends that he would chat with all the time on the website, you know, internet friends and all that jazz.

Great. The following year, Gil would end up taking like an exam to become a sergeant at NYPD, you know, make some more money as well. And Kathleen would become a full timetime stay-at-home mom. Then like this was a big year for him. He got like the job. Kathleen became a stay-at-home mom. And then the two of them ended up getting married because they weren't married yet.

So on the outside, like all of these stories we talk about here, everything just seemed fine and dandy, right? But Kathleen, again, would later say that like, yeah, the wedding was nice, but the marriage was not. Gil worked late at the police department, which, you know, if you got a new baby, that shit's hard. Cause like it made Kathleen just feel like

she was raising a baby on her own, which she like pretty much was. And she said like when Gil did get home, it's not like he was available to help. So things were a little tense. Kathleen also said that there was like no intimacy in the relationship either after the baby came, you know, and that like, she said like whenever she tried to, whenever they tried to get intimate, it's not funny. It's just like, I'm saying we just know so much about this guy but she said whenever

they tried to get intimate Gil he couldn't finish and like he would get up and like run to the bathroom when he couldn't finish I guess and just like leaving leaving her alone it was just awkward uncomfortable and kind of weird yeah that would make you feel some type of way because you feel like it's you you're like isn't me it me? Like, am I the problem? After a while, I guess like Gil would just avoid her completely. When he came home from work, he just played video games. He would watch TV or just be on the internet until like three, four, sometimes five in the morning. Poor thing.

That sucks. You know, Gil would say that like he was tired, which is valid. Like he would have a really high, high stress job working for the police department. And then he would get off at like super late at night. And then he just didn't have the energy to like come home and be a dad, I guess, or like participate in much of anything. And that's fair, but it's not right a little bit more concealer just a little bit just a little bit so okay what is this leading all up to well let me tell you one day gil's computer wasn't working he had like his own computer not working right so until he can get a fix he asked his wife, if he could use hers.

He would say, you know, since he's using his wife's computer, he knew, like, I should not be logging into any of these freaky websites or do anything weird because she'll find out, whatever. So he avoids it for a bit. Because as the days go on, Gil is just getting those he needs he needs his fix essentially he can't resist anymore so he eventually logs into his fetish websites but on her computer now this would be a very big mistake because he forgets to like close all of his tabs when he was done and you know we go looking i would so kathleen she goes to use her computer and you know she opens it up just like yay and voila there's images of

like women tied up with a ball gag in the mouth and if you've never seen this or weren't expecting this it might be a lot to take in you might be like um what am i looking at what what i'd be like um what she goes to the website where the picture's from and she learns like exactly what she's looking at kathleen would later say like it was disturbing and that she knew like S&M was popular she was thinking like 50 shades of gray but like she would say this what she was looking at was a lot different because like what she was looking at when she went to this web page was the girl on the front page was dead like staged I think let's hope but the girl on the front page was dead. Like staged, I think, let's hope. But the girl on the front page was dead.

So yeah, it was a little much. It was different, is what she was getting at. I think I can agree there. It was definitely a little different. So up until discovering this website, Kathleen, you know, kind of sad, but like she thought maybe she was the problem in the relationship.

She's thinking like, maybe if I cooked and cleaned more dressed sexy I don't know like maybe Gil would want want her I'm saying like she's putting it on herself like maybe she could fix whatever was going on but she said once she stumbled across this website she knew like okay cleaning more isn't gonna do the trick well after what she saw she's like i know i have to talk to gil like she's got to figure out exactly what what's going on right so she had approached him i don't know how i don't think it matters but she like was like we need to talk look and she told him the truth she's like i saw what i saw this website you know and

she told him that she wasn't here to judge. Like she wanted to know how she could actually help. Like maybe they could go shopping for like a sex toy or something. Like, was there something they could do to spice up their sex life? No, that was a conversation, which is great actually. Right. And Kathleen was really hoping that this conversation would be like a breakthrough for them. And at least at first, it kind of came off that way because Gil seemed really excited at the idea of Kathleen like participating in his fantasies.

But at the end of the day, Kathleen wasn't really sure about how she was feeling about it all. Like still something just really didn't sit right with her. She couldn't stop thinking about like what she saw online and stuff, right? I guess at first she straight up thought he was like having an affair. He wasn't, but she didn't know that.

So Kathleen decided to install spyware onto his computer to like see what he was doing when she wasn't paying attention so she installs his spyware and like from her phone or computer she could see what he was doing on his computer so literally the next day she was able to see all of the websites that gil was visiting and he was visiting a lot girls in a bind fet life it was a lot I know at first for research I was like what's girls in a bind because I was thinking like girls who were like like uh like I'm in a bind what do I do like oh no I'm in a bind but it's not that you know okay great but he was busy really busy all of these websites are like

bdsm fetish fantasy websites so kathleen is like seeing this and she's realizing that you know maybe he's way more into these things than she thought she also sees like some instant message chats it was like yahoo messenger that messenger that Gil was having with people. So she clicked and she like opened these messages and that's when she gets real spooked because she opens up this message and she's staring at like a picture of herself. There's in the chat and there's pictures of her friends and there's pictures of like people she knew and she's like what the fuck is happening so she's like kind of like what so then she searches for her name and gil's email and what she saw i guess was just like completely overwhelming to her kathleen said that she saw emails between gil and someone else which we'll get into later, but someone else, and they were going into

great detail about what they were going to do to her specifically. In one of the emails, it said that they were going to tie her up by her feet, have her throat slit, and that they would, have fun watching the blood gush out unquote then going on to say that if she cried out that they wouldn't listen and they would not give her mercy so if you think about it and like if you found that your husband's having these conversations about you that they're gonna like you know slit your throat blah blah, blah, blah. Fucking run, right? Like this is different. This felt real. So Kathleen is very spooked.

I think for a good reason, right? So she realizes that she needs some space. She's like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Because these emails, they look real. Like they were really planning on doing this to her. That's how she's processing it. And now she has a baby to take care of. She's like, I gotta get out of here, right? So she right so she calls up her parents is like i'm coming to you guys she books a flight to nevada her and her baby they go stay with her parents for a bit now this was devastating

to gill i guess but whatever doesn't matter doesn't matter yo so she's at her parents house in nevada and you know while she's there she, I'm going to check that spyware again and see like what he's doing. And she's like, all right. Like she sees that Gil is still doing the most. She came across a trove of S&M pictures of women being tortured and sexually assaulted. And on top of that, Gil was Googling how to kidnap a woman. And also he was Googling human meat recipes. Yes, human meat recipes. All right. You know, I was like, I'm sure there's a lot out there. It's the internet. But good luck to him with that, I guess. I don't know what to say.

So I mean, based off his Google searches, it seems like he's really, he's planning to do stuff, right? Right. So the more she's looking into what he's doing, the just worse it gets. Kathleen comes across tons of files with like photos of more than 80 different women that Gil had like downloaded from Facebook

and other worm sites. And a lot of them like he knew she knew and then there were like email conversations Gil was having with three different people he met them like on one of the fetish websites but they were discussing various ways that he might kidnap rape kill and kill, and then cook these women. So again, Kathleen was one of the women discussed and there were like others as well. There was like old friends of hers from work. Gil's supervisor was one of the people

that they were fantasizing about. There's a teenage girl who had like just graduated from Gilberto's old high school and quite a few of his college friends Gil had wrote about one of these college friends saying quote I'll be eyeing her from head to toe and licking my lips longing for the day I cram a chloroform soaked rag in her face yeah so again like gil was very active he was chatting with like 24 different users about kidnapping raping torturing killing and cannibalizing more than a hundred different women so gil was chatting with three people outside of the fetish websites, like they were more personal friends type of thing. And then on DFN,

he was chatting with 24 different users. And with these people, he was, it was kind of like the same thing, but he was talking about kidnapping, raping, torturing, killing, and cannibalizing more than 100 women. In 21 of those 24 conversations, Gil made it clear that what he was saying was only fantasy. He had wrote to one of them like, no matter what I say, it's make-believe. It's just a world that I have in my mind. And that's fair. That's valid, right? People are allowed to fantasize, right? Yeah. Okay. It's uncomfortable uncomfortable but people are allowed to think but there were three other conversations he was having where it seemed to be more sincere he was giving off the impression that this was something that he like actually wanted to do

and it was not necessarily just a fantasy. So Kathleen sees these messages, right? And they're very concerning to her because they seem like he's actually going to do something. So what does she do? She contacts authorities. I think she contacts the FBI. And, you know, she presents them with these messages because they're very concerning and they seem to be sincere. Plus, she's like, am I about to get kidnapped and freaking murdered? October 24th 2012

a group of FBI agents they go to Gil's apartment on Forest Hill they're gonna arrest him so they want to like lure him out of his place and like get him into the hallway I don't know why why do they do that can they not like just arrest them when they're in the house I guess not I need to look into that it doesn't matter because they want to lure him out so one of the fbi agents they called his his phone and they said that like his car that was parked outside had been hit so gill obviously if your car's hit you're gonna be like oh my god my car's hit like let me go outside and check it out so he gets out of his place he walks out in his sweats and he's met with FBI agents I guess the FBI had like placed their hand on Gil's shoulder and was like don't worry everything's gonna be okay and Gil responded by saying like I don't think so he knew what was up I think so Gil was placed under arrest for conspiracy

to kidnap and he sat in jail for five months awaiting trial so while he's sitting sitting in there you know details start coming out you start coming to light about what he was doing it was like painting a picture or a story of a husband who was like secretly plotting to abduct several women all at once well not all at once but abduct several women do horrible things to them and it included his own wife so in in their investigation, the FBI had singled out specific emails where Gil was coming up with a strategy on how he was going to like do these kidnappings. But also there were emails where he was negotiating payment for the kidnappings. So that's like intent, you know. On top of that, the FBI, they also looked at his work computer where they found searches for different women,

like using the software available to him as a law enforcement officer. So he was using his work shit to like look women up. You get it. Uh-oh, not good. So once the media got wind of this story, I mean, they were all over it, right? Cause it's fricking bizarre.

You know, Gil was quickly named the cannibal cop. Very catchy. So prosecutors, they had found his DFN, you know, account. Again, Girl Meat Hunter. And they saw that he had quite the following. And on top of that, they saw that he was like directly messaging different members using Yahoo Messenger

and exchanging emails filled with photos and stories about what they were going to do to these women in the photos and that they were sharing and it was just graphic. It was very graphic. So the FBI they honed in on three specific people Gil was talking with. So one of the guys that he was talking to was a 22 year old car mechanic from Southern New Jersey and his name was Michael Van Hise. So that's one of the guys. Another guy was a British man and he went he had the username Moody Blues. The FBI they later identified him as Dale Bollinger or Bollinger Dale and then there was another man named Ali Khan who was apparently like logging on from Pakistan so these were like his main buddies in January of 2012 Gil had emailed Michael Vanhees Vanhees photos of a woman named Alicia. Now this girl Alicia she was like friends with Kathleen. They

had like worked together at one point and this guy Michael like had offered to kidnap her for Gil and Gil in return offered five thousand dollars for the kidnapping to happen. Gil even said like in an email like I'm putting my neck out on the line here. Like if anything goes wrong, I'm in deep shit. So $5,000 and you need to make sure that she is not found because she will definitely make the news. So again, to anybody reading this, you're gonna think this is real, right?

He's gonna do, it sounds like he's going to do this. So around the same time, Gil was chatting with this guy, Ali Khan, and he was suggesting that he could take Kathleen on a trip to India where the two of them would kill her and prepare her for dinner. Gil sent Ali Khan a photo of Kathleen in a bikini, and he wrote like, we will take turns with her. And they also discussed killing one of Gil's college friends

named Andrea and Gil had wrote like, oh, it's personal with Andrea. She will absolutely suffer. Gil had told this guy Ali Khan that he was constructing a pulley apparatus in his basement to string her up by her feet. So not great. In summer of 2012, Gil had spent a lot of his time

talking with this guy, Moody Blues. They seem to like really hit it off and be BFFs. Gil was like bragging to this Moody Blues guy that his oven was big enough to fit a victim in it if like he just like folded their legs and then he told this moody blues guy that he Gil had a place in the mountains where no one was around for like three quarters of a mile and they like could bring a woman of their choice there and just like do whatever they wanted with her and they like settled on one of Gil's college friends named Kimberly. So I mean

you know it didn't stop there. Gil went on to like plan even more details saying like once she's dead we could take her out and like properly butcher her body and like cook the meat and that she could be out on a rotisserie as well. So okayill later emailed moody blues a short word document and this document was titled abducting and cooking kimberly a blueprint so of course when the authorities find this they're like great like this is like all the this is evidence obviously right but in this document like he listed materials that he would need to like get this job done. On the list was like a car, chloroform, rope, a gag.

And then like next to the gag, it was like, do I need duct tape? And then a tarp or plastic bags to protect the trunk from any DNA remains. And then they would need more bags for Kimberly's clothes and also cheap sneakers. So it's like this whole list. Again like Gil used the NYPD database to search for detailed information of different women he knew and who were like the target of his discussion. The searches typically included basic information like their home address, their date of birth, height, weight, eye color, criminal records, like you know everything. And prosecutors they saw this as further evidence

that Gil's plans were more than just fantasy like he was going to take things a step further, but there was technically no physical evidence from Gil's apartment that suggested he was getting ready to kidnap or cook anyone. Like there was no large oven or his oven. He had an oven, but like it wasn't large enough to fit a human. There was no like cleaver and there was no chloroform found. I don't think they found like ropes or anything either. You know, there's just like cleaver and there was no chloroform found i don't think they found like

ropes or anything either you know there's just like nothing prosecutors also had no proof guilt even had a place in the mountains so was it all just fantasy or was this real I don't know. Well, on the afternoon of December 31st, 2012, a forensic psychiatrist, his name was Park Dietz. I thought it was kind of funny. Park Dietz. It's a good name. But this guy, he's a doctor, right? He went to downtown to the Manhattan Detention Center to conduct a psychiatric examination of Gil. Gil's lawyers felt that they needed a forensic psychiatrist to weigh in on like the question of again like

how real is his web persona or like how real it might become. They needed a doctor to weigh in. So the doctor already knew like from gill's nypd file that he had been given the minnesota multi-phasic personality inventory yeah i was like what is this i'm interested i guess it's a widely used psychological assessment tool designed to evaluate personality traits and psychopathology psychopath Sometimes it's used like as a part of the hiring process or for like assessing the psychological fitness of employees, particularly in high stress or safety sensitive jobs. You know, it helps ensure that the individuals are like psychologically suitable for specific roles. In other words, NYPD, you know?

So they give them this test. So according to Dr. Dietz, this assessment, MMPI situation, it showed that there was really nothing like psychologically wrong with Bozo Gill. And he's like, that's not really something I run into very much. He's like, usually not really something I run into very much he's like usually there's something off so over the course of three days and like 18 hours of interviews with Dr. Dietz I love it Dr. Dietz it's so good but Gil like you know during this interview had openly discussed everything about like his sex life he went all the way back starting with you know the traditional catholic school situation told him everything dr deeds said that he remembered gill was not like ashamed or embarrassed or anything about masturbation which if you read his book gill's

book you it's very clear he's not embarrassed because he likes to talk about it a lot but okay so he's not ashamed or embarrassed or anything but he did say that gil was like more introverted and shy around people especially women investigators asked dr deets when gil started sharing his interest with strangers online was it possible that the danger and risk only made it more exciting to Gil? You know, was it harder for him to stop or like would it escalate into action? That's really like the bigger question, the question everyone wants an answer to, like is this going to escalate? Dr. Dietz responded by saying that he could understand how the evidence that was presented could be construed in that way

but that he had seen him as like many many steps removed from the kind of person that might start to take action. In other words he didn't believe that Gil was gonna take action it was just all fantasy. Dr. Dietz said that he searched for evidence of something in Gil's personality that would show like he would escalate his fantasies to the next level. He was looking for something like past actions or aggressive actions and character flaws

that would say to him, the doctor, like, "'Oh, I'm a monster, secretly, I don't know." But like, he couldn't find anything there was no red flags and then Dr. Dietz said that if Gil actually did end up doing something and like harming a woman he would immediately be identified because like Gil used a computer that had a traceable IP address and he was messy in other words which I was like why do you even say that like that I don't think that necessarily matters a lot of killers are messy but whatever but even Gil's repeated web searches for chloroform recipes or like the looking up the addresses of

women that he fantasized about did not concern Dr. Dietz and I forgot to mention but like this doctor was like well respected many many years being at this amazing doctor and he's like worked with Jeffrey Dahmer and shit like that so you know that's why like him saying it wasn't concerning was kind of taken seriously because at first I was like who is this doctor f this guy So Dr. Dietz essentially said like, look, this is just a guy who has a fetish. And the only thing he's going to do is repeatedly go back and look at the same pictures of like certain women wearing certain undergarments. And like, that is that. Like, he's not really going to do anything else other than that. All in all, Dr. Dietz's conclusion was that Gil's thoughts were unpleasant, you know, sure.

But they were not necessarily, I don't know, anything more than thoughts. He even said that, like, Dr. Dietz said, like, Gil's like the nicest guy you'd ever meet. Dr. Dietz said pretty much that he found it troubling that just because Gil had, like, a desire, you know, a fantasy, doesn't mean like that they're actually going to do it. And the fact that people were unable to like separate the two, I guess, like recognize it as that. Do you know what I'm saying? You get it, right? But Gil goes to trial February of 2013. And there seemed to be like two different cases that were being argued. There was

the actual charge against Gil which was conspiracy to kidnap and then there was like the thing that what Gil might do in the future if he were allowed to go free. Now according to his lawyers what made the case against Gil unique was that all the evidence that was being used against him they were based on his thoughts and his fantasies. Let me do my lip liner hold on. So much of the prosecution's case ended up being about the emails that Gill's lawyers decided not to put the psychiatrist Dr. Dietz on or Gil on the stand. His lawyers believed more questions about Gil's fetish would only distract from like the overall conspiracy charges which they believed they were completely flimsy. So Gil's attorney said that yes his conversations and his interests were disturbing and to some disgusting but at the

end of the day they were not criminal and like nothing illegal happened. Gil's DFN profile even stated it said in his profile that he was just fantasizing and Gil's defense lawyer even pointed specifically to like there was a certain email or something where Gil was discussing that he was going to kidnap three different women on President's Day. And like he, his defense lawyer was like, see President's Day, it came and went and like nothing happened. If he was going to do it, he would have done it, right? So like fantasy, fantasy, fantasy. Meanwhile, the prosecution depicted Gil as reckless and out of control. They brought up the fact that, you know, Gil was using the NYPD database to search for different women's addresses.

And like this was proof that he was planning to move things into action. So the prosecutor kind of gave the jurors something to think about. A pretty good like argument. The prosecutor was like think about your favorite restaurant. He's like just envision it. If you were to find out that the chef at this restaurant had like a fantasy of poisoning all the people in the restaurant. And night after night, he was engaging in conversations with other people about how he could poison the restaurant goers at his restaurant. He would go online, he was looking up different poisons, and he was communicating with people the names of certain other people who would like come into his restaurant all the time. And if you found out about

that, and the chef was like, oh, well, it was just fantasy. Like I was just kidding. Would you continue to eat at that restaurant? Of course you wouldn't. And I was like, ah, points were made. Points were made. I was like, okay, yeah, that's true. So look, the trial lasted for a little over a month.

And then on March 12th, the jury came back and found Gil guilty. Gil was convicted of conspiring to kidnap, cook, and devour his wife, as well as like several other women. He was also convicted on a second count that involved illegally gaining access to a law enforcement database that the government said that he used to conduct research for or on potential victims. Many of Gil's team and family members were there and they watched the whole thing, right? And they really disagreed with the verdict. They were saying that it was a thought prosecution and that the jury couldn't get past the thoughts and that

he was guilty of nothing more than having very unconventional thoughts and that the government should not be in our heads. Now let me tell you this is what really like got me like going because I was like oh my god valid right it's confusing because a lot of the stuff he was saying online and stuff uncomfortable scary whatever but like technically he didn't do anything anyways in a later interview one of the jury members like had come out and said that they believed that his fantasy was going to step into reality going on to say like it was kind of similar to an addict who needs a larger and larger dose and that he was progressing. Gil ended up appealing the conviction shortly after the verdict. The defense

asked the appeal judge to find Gil not guilty and more than a year later in like June of 2014 the judge ended up overturning the charge saying that there was not enough evidence to support it. Gill was released from prison in July of 2014 it was like 21 months after his arrest then the following year the second circuit affirmed the decision to overturn the conviction. So in its ruling, the panel also reversed Gil's conviction on the charge that he had illegally gained access to the law enforcement database. That part didn't make sense to me because like he did do that. He said he did that and like isn't that illegal? So why wasn't that upheld? I don't know but it got reversed so Gil was cleared of all criminal charges now Gil's public defender said that the ruling was a very important victory not just for Gil but for an open society

that treasures freedom of thought and expression right I know aren't you kind of like low-key torn because you're like, yeah, but you know, like, I don't know. But listen, because something good did come from this because the FBI, like, they got a bunch of information when they were searching or following like what Gil was doing. So on like January 4th, 2013, the FBI, they they arrested that guy Michael Van Hise or Vanese whatever his name is at his home in Hamilton New Jersey again he was 22 years old and he admitted to the police that he had like violent sexual fantasies some of them were involving children. So he got caught and arrested for this. And his wife, because he was married, she was like, no, he's a big teddy bear, you know?

Like, no. But she also said that she was aware of his interests and his fetishes before they got married and that she was quote, cool with it. She told the reporters that like, yeah, it's disturbing but she accepted her partner's flaws and like he wasn't perfect, but neither was she. Okay, I don't know.

All right, he got arrested. And then in April of 2013 michael van huys vinnies had provided some information to the fbi and the fbi arrested two more men who had been chatting with one another on that dfn website one of them his name was richard melts he was 65 year old police chief in bedford massachusetts and then there was another older gentleman named Robert Ash. He was 61 years old and a former librarian at a high school. Now this librarian guy, he previously had been arrested because he was accused of inappropriately touching four male students. But then like the charges got dropped, whatever.

Unlike Gil, these two men, Robert Ash, the 61 year old former librarian, and Robert Meltz, the 65 year old police chief, they had crossed the line. Both of them had met with an undercover agent, like they didn't know it was a setup, but Robert Ash had brought a bag with him to this meeting. And in the bag was a taser, a meat hammer skewers, and a dental retractor.

What's a dental retractor? Let me look this up. What's a dental retractor? What was he gonna do with that i don't know ew anyways he brought all this with him and it was clear to like the investigators that these two they were obviously ready to take their fantasies to like the real world so both of them were arrested and like put on trial so in 2013 dale bollinger bollinger whatever the fuck the guy moody blues he said in an interview that all of his conversations with gill were again just fantasy and that he was really stupid for putting these things online but dale mr bollinger or whatever was arrested in november of 2013 by british authorities for sexual grooming yes he was he had planned to meet

up with a 14 year old girl i think it was a 14 year old he had bought like an axe before the meeting and brought it with him when he was gonna meet this person but i guess the emails were like something about chopping this victim's head off and then he bought the axe so again it was like intent to do shit you understand right he got arrested i guess that's why i say like there is kind of a bright side because at least like these guys all got caught like and the authorities got them before they actually did some booked up shit. Afterwards Gil tried to get custody of his daughter or at least like visitation but ended up dropping the case because there was like too many legal fees that he couldn't afford.

Since then like in 2017 Gil had done interviews you know know, defending himself, going on to say, like, people, they don't choose the things that they're aroused by. Everyone has their own things and people don't choose it. He said in the interview, like, yes, the stuff I put online was odd and, like, weird and shit. But, like, it was completely fictional writing. It's very graphic, brutal stuff. It was never anything real. It was all fictional. But you were a cop. But people don't choose the things they're aroused by. Gill went on to write a memoir

called The Raw Deal, the untold story of NYPD's cannibal cop in 2017. That's what I read. It's wild. Yeah. And then he published another work of fiction in 2018. Yeah, it's titled A Gathering of Evil. And the book's description said that the story follows two young New York women as they are targeted by a group of wealthy and violent sadists who crave to kidnap a young woman and brutally end her life so keep him busy with the writing because i've right i don't know anyways that is the wild story about um is it wild it's different about gilberto bally the cannibal cop. Now this story I thought was very interesting because yes, strange, disturbing. Like if you were his wife, I'm sure a lot of us would do the same thing,

contact authorities and whatnot and be like, dude, my husband's gonna kill me. He's saying it online, right? But like technically he didn't do anything illegal. And he said over and over again it was just fantasy so it's like and then when um authorities and stuff like went and searched his apartment they didn't find anything so it's like I don't know it's just like a weird it's a it's weird it's. Maybe he would have evolved into like doing stuff in real life, but we don't know that. And it's like, are you allowed to be arrested for thoughts and like writing fake shit online?

Storytelling. Are you allowed to be arrested for storytelling and fantasy? No, right? But like, I don't know. And then I was looking it up and like cannibalism, it's legal in 49 states. So it's like, it's not illegal because if you replace cannibalism with like kids,

then it becomes illegal, right? But it's cannibalism and not kids. So it's not illegal. I don't know. I just like going circles about this because I don't know illegal I don't know I just like going circles about this because um I don't know I don't know again like it's just an interesting thought because should someone be tried because of their dark thoughts and their kinks I'm sure we can all agree no but you know it's like no but it's fine until it involves me then it's like right like if it were

you that was was the target i was thinking you know what i was thinking okay let's say he um he still did all this whatever he used everyone's pictures but what if he used different names for the people in the pictures instead of their real names would that have protected him because he used their real names their real information and like that is what made it seem more real right I don't know it's an interesting it's an interesting thought right I'm sure a lot of us have some pretty dark thoughts hopefully you don't put them on the internet and stuff you just like think it in your head and go nah never mind and then you move on with your life but if you did put it out there I'm sure like you

you wouldn't want to be arrested for it because it's just a thought it's not really something you're doing but then how do you know this person is not going to actually freaking do it you just don't know you don't know and then let's just say Gil did end up doing something or maybe he does in a couple of years and then everyone would point to his internet stuff and be like see he's been saying for years he's gonna do it how come nobody arrested him you can't win with this one right bright side again at least like some of the people that Gil was talking to or whatever did end up getting arrested before they did something.

So that's good. All right, well, look, I wanna hear like what you guys think. Let me know in the comment section. What do you think? Should he be arrested? Should he be in jail? For what though? For his ideas and thoughts?

I don't know. You tell me. Let me know down below. Also, I think it's funny. I recreated one of the looks I did. If you've been a longtime viewer, though for his ideas and thoughts i don't know you tell me let me know down below also i think it's funny i recreated one of the looks i did if you've been a long time viewer remember i did this look for another cannibal murder mystery i did many moons ago this is like the cannibal look i guess i like it it's cute anyhow um i hope you have a good rest of your day you make good choices you be safe out there please be safe out there let me know down below who you want me to talk about next time.

If you have any makeup ideas, let me know because I'm always reading the comment section and I get inspired from you guys. You guys give me ideas. Love ya. Bye.