Murder, Mystery & Makeup - "People die, they should just get over it." - The Monster Who Haunted Australia: Ivan Milat

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Hi friends, happy Tuesday! Okay look... this episode might be a bit, let’s say, unsettling. It unpacks the story of one of Australia’s most notorious serial killers and his horrifying crimes against young travelers didn't just shock the Land Down Under... but the entire world. From the gruesome discoveries in a state forest to the investigation that finally brought this monster down down... today I talk about how Ivan Milat’s terrifying spree unraveled and how he got the nickname the "Backpack Killer." Lots of unpredictable twists and turns in this one, friends. Happy New Year! Also, let me know who you want me to talk about next time. Hope you have a great rest of your week, make good choices and I'll be seeing you very soon. xo Bailey Sarian I sometimes talk about my Good Reads in show. So here's the link if you want to check it out. IDK. lol: https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/139701263-bailey ________ FOLLOW ME AROUND Tik Tok: https://bit.ly/3e3jL9v Instagram: http://bit.ly/2nbO4PR Facebook: http://bit.ly/2mdZtK6 Twitter: http://bit.ly/2yT4BLV Pinterest: http://bit.ly/2mVpXnY Youtube: http://bit.ly/1HGw3Og Snapchat: https://bit.ly/3cC0V9d Discord: https://discord.gg/BaileySarian RECOMMEND A STORY HERE: [e-mail] Business Related Emails: [e-mail] Business Related Mail: Bailey Sarian 4400 W. Riverside Dr., Ste 110-300 Burbank, CA 91505 ________ Personal styling for everyone—get started today at https://www.stitchfix.com/makeup. Get the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, at https://www.selectquote.com/makeup. Get all the big stuff for your small business right with Shopify. Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial and start selling today at https://www.shopify.com/makeup.

Hi friends, how are you today? I hope you're having a wonderful day so far. My name is Bailey Sarian and today is Monday which means it's Murder, Mystery, and Makeup Monday. Today I got a story for you. This story has been recommended to me since day one and I've been putting it off because you know it just kind of spooked me. The guy scared me a lot. Anyone who scares me I kind of like I stay away from it. Today's story is like a dense forest, an empty road, a promise of adventure. I mean what could go wrong? For seven young backpackers exploring the Australian wilderness these moments of wanderlust turned into their worst nightmare. One by one, they vanished, only to be found brutally murdered, their bodies left to rot in the eerie silence

of the Belanglo State Forest. And at the center of this nightmare, Ivan Milat. Oh oh you've probably heard his name haven't you it's a man whose ordinary life masked unimaginable horrors now he was dubbed a backpack killer and Ivan's gruesome acts of violence turned the scenic Australian outback into like a chilling hunting ground okay so it's like how did this soft-spoken road worker guy lure lure his victims into a deadly trap. You know, like what drove him to commit these unspeakable crimes? And how did investigators finally uncover like the twisted truth that ended up just shocking

the world? Well, listen, today we unravel the dark tale of Ivan Milat. Now, this is not just a story of murder. It's a journey into the mind of pure evil. I feel like that's this whole show, huh? And I say it all the time, but buckle up, baby, because this road trip leads straight to terror.

So who is this Ivan guy, you know? Well, he was born Robert Marco Milot on December 27th, 1944. Is he a Sag? Oh no. And he was born into Guilford, New South Wales, which I guess is a suburb of Sydney, Australia. And you know, it was said that Ivan actually came from like a really big family, okay?

He was the fifth kid out of 14 kids. Yeah, busy. Okay. I know like back then, like people had a lot of kids, yes. But could you imagine having 14 kids now? No, no, absolutely not. Could you imagine if the one purpose in life is just to pop out a bunch of children and then that's it?

That's your life. Okay. But that's not the point. So, Ivan's mom stayed home with the kids while his dad had worked on the wars in Sydney. It was said that Ivan's father was, as it usually goes, not great. Yeah. Neighbors remember seeing the father outside, like beating the kids

with like a two by four piece of wood. They were just like, oh, that's happening. And then the neighbors would say like they would constantly hear yelling. It sounded like it was violent. And the kids honestly said the same thing. Like there was a lot of violence in the house and a lot of yelling. Everyone seemed very angry. So for much of his early childhood, Ivan and his family lived on a farm in the outskirts of Sydney.

And his father eventually started a tomato farm where Ivan and his brothers were put to work. You know, that's kind of great though. The father, his idea was like to keep the boys busy put them to work you know teach them how to how to work you get it but um you know the farm work didn't keep like the malat boys out of trouble because it turns out like Ivan and his brothers they were troublemakers and they were known to like they were known by the local police. The family had a really large gun collection and it was said from a young age like all the kids were saying by the age of like

seven they were outside just like shooting guns just doing whatever. Actually probably younger than seven. Out of the 10 brothers seven of them had run-ins with the law like very early on in their lives. And it was petty stuff. Breaking into someone's car, shooting at someone's pet across the street. Like it was bad but you know it was starting. But to many it was Ivan's troublesome behavior that really like stood out the most. One of Ivan's brothers would later recall that Ivan showed like questionable behavior

from a young age. You know, he was doing things like attacking animals with a machete. So red flag, you know. There was even rumors going around, a little graphic here, a little disclaimer, I apologize. But there was a rumor going around that Ivan actually cut a dog in half with

a machete. No one can confirm or deny but that was like the rumor going around. Did you hear that Ivan cuts a dog up with a machete you know? So at age 13 Ivan's antisocial behavior ends up landing him in a religious boarding school. His parents kind of like didn't know what to do with him. He was a little weird. So they sent him off to boarding school. But by 1961 Ivan who's now 17 he was held in a juvenile center for stealing. So missing pieces here.

He went to boarding school whatever. He's now 17. He's in juvenile center because he got caught stealing. I believe that he was trying to steal a safe, something along those lines, but he got caught and he got in trouble. When Ivan was a teenager, it was said, this is when like he became obsessed with his appearance. He always had to be in control of things down to how he looked okay. So people would describe him as tan, good looking, muscular and he had like

charm. On top of that he didn't drink alcohol because he would tell people like I don't like feeling out of control like it's just not for me and he was always neatly dressed he loved fast cars he loved hooking up with his brother's girlfriends and he just sounds like okay at first I was reading that and I was like oh that's not bad like he doesn't wanna drink, he's taking care of himself, but you know, we're here. So Bailey, I, you know. So Ivan was a shitty sibling. Ivan would have affairs with two

of his brother's girlfriends. Now riddle me this, would you ever date or hook up with one of your siblings exes? Like that's so gross sorry I'm judging anyway on March 6 of 1962 Ivan who was now 18 years old attempted to rob a taxi driver allegedly during the robbery Ivan accidentally shoots the driver like that wasn't the plan I guess he was just trying to scare him with the gun I don't know thankfully the driver like that wasn't the plan I guess he was just trying to scare him with the gun I don't know thankfully the driver survives but the driver that was shot was now

paralyzed from the waist down this guy's life has changed forever now here's the worst part Ivan did this okay I could tell you that now. Spoiler. But an innocent man ended up being convicted for the shooting and ended up serving five years for Ivan's crime. Yeah. That poor guy. So Ivan completely gets off with shooting this taxi driver. So you think like, I don't know, close close call you think he would just lay low but of course not. Ivan continues committing crimes and in 1964 he broke into a shop. It's not clear like what kind of shop or what he stole but at this point Ivan is 20 years old and the courts you know he gets caught and they decide to just throw the book

at him. He ends up getting 18 months for breaking and entering. Now Ivan would end up getting released in 1966 but just one month after getting out of prison Ivan strikes again. He ends up getting caught stealing a car okay. So after this they don't lock him up but they do sentence him to two years hard labor now the research is a little murky on how long he served his hard labor sentence but what we do know is that in 1967 Ivan was sentenced to three years in prison for theft again so he's just stealing a lot okay and he goes to prison whatever he seems to learn nothing and then he gets out in 1970. But if we've learned anything at this point it's that Ivan has learned nothing. He has learned nothing and his crimes continue to escalate.

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The girls were near Liverpool railwayway Station when Ivan I guess like went up to them at knife point and then just like abducted them was like come with me. He would later sexually assault one of them. Thankfully the woman escaped when Ivan stopped at the gas station and she was able to get out. Run away. And then Ivan was arrested later that day. Now you think okay that's it. Like he would be locked up for a while. You would hope.

But of course not. You know. So he's charged with one count of rape. And two counts of armed robbery. And then he's put on trial where the two women testify that he had a knife during the attacks. But despite their testimony, Ivan was acquitted. Yes. I kind of went digging around because I could not find out why he was acquitted.

Some people say that the victims like decided not to go through with it. I don't know. But he was acquitted boy they it's one thing i hate about these murder mysteries is like there's so many opportunities for it to be stopped you know and we just watch it and you're like damn another one like this guy could have been stopped so he was acquitted and okay like this guy is just getting away with everything, which sucks because later that year, he was brought up on yet another rape charge. But listen to this.

In order to avoid prosecution, Ivan did something wild. He faked his suicide by leaving his shoes at this place called The Gap. No, not the store, I know. The Gap is, I guess store I know. The Gap is I guess an ocean side cliff in Sydney that is like sadly a well known site where people like take their lives. I'm so sorry I hate that. But yeah so he left his shoes there so people would think like oh my god he killed himself you know. but within a few months authorities learned that Ivan had actually fled to

Queensland and Victoria which are like two different states in Australia before leaving the country and then heading to New Zealand. Now apparently Ivan had lived in New Zealand for two years before secretly returning to Australia at some point. Authorities suspect that Ivan had a fake passport and like lived on the interstate to avoid being caught. But then in 1974 Ivan's mom had a heart attack. Okay so he goes home to like go see his mom and when he goes home that's when Ivan is arrested when he's visiting her. It's unclear where Ivan's mom was exactly but Australian police were finally able to like catch Ivan as he was with his mom at her bedside so this time they capture Ivan and they're trying to get him again for robbery and kidnapping but Ivan is acquitted

on these charges I don't know who he's I don't know what he's doing you know but he's getting away with it. I don't know who he knows. I guess apparently you know the family had a great family lawyer. I don't know. So now it's 1975. Ivan who is now in his 30s he ends up finding a job working as a truck driver. Not great for people who have like killer tendencies, I'll say that much, huh? Because two years into his driving career, Ivan attempts to rape and murder two other women. They were also hitchhikers making their way from Liverpool to Canberra. I'm sure I said that incorrectly, but yeah. Two cities that are in Southeast Australia

and they're about like a two hour and 40 minute drive from one another. Now thankfully, Ivan is like not successful in his attempt, but it's clear that he's like growing in that direction, right? Like he's getting braver. Within a a few years Ivan met and married a woman named Karen Duck no comment on the last name I think we don't need to huh Duck great now Ivan was 31 at this point and when he married Karen guess how old she was 17 poor Karen Karen was 17 years old and she was six weeks pregnant with Ivan's cousin's child. So yeah, you could say there's a lot going on, huh? I mean, Karen, obviously young, but she's also pregnant, looking for someone to provide for her. So she stayed with him and the two would go on to get married. So the two get married and it was said that the relationship probably as you can guess was not good. He, Ivan, was controlling and jealous and an asshole. Ivan

would not let Karen out of the house. He needed to know every minute of her day and like where she was, what she was doing. It was said Ivan would quote unquote control his anger for a period of time and then would it just explode at any given moment. You know he wasn't afraid to be aggressive with her in public. That's scary. Karen finally was able to get away from him in 1987 and then she would go back to live at her parents house well Ivan obviously didn't like this so you know what he did he got revenge by burning down the front of her parents house why is he not in prison I don't know okay so they break up he sets the house on fire then it's kind of crickets for a a while like Karen's left alone Ivan has seemed to like gone away well six months later two hitchhikers completely disappeared off the face of the earth vanished poof gone and this is when

things went from like bad to really really ugly Deborah Everest and James Gibson were just 19 years old when they decided to hitchhike to Confest which is like this camping workshop and like music festival. On their way to Confest the couple first stayed at a hostel in Sydney and I guess this hostel was about a five and a half hour drive to their actual destination. So the day after they leave the hostel a hiker finds James's camera by the road at Galston Gorge which is like this really dense forest area in northern Sydney. So kind of weird and on top of that it was in the opposite direction of Confest. But the hiker just thought like, I don't know. He got, it was his lucky day. He found a camera. He's like, well, this is sick. So he didn't think much about it. And he just kind of like took it

home. Meanwhile, Deborah and James's friends began to worry when the couple didn't show up to Confest. And when no one heard from them for weeks relatives filed a missing persons report. Now right away police were not really that concerned. I know. Are we surprised? No. But remember this was a time before everyone had cell phones. Being unreachable especially if you were like a backpacker wasn't, that's what happened. It wasn't that alarming, you know? It was like, just wait. They'll come back. They'll show up. Don't worry. So time goes by. Then in January of 1990, a British backpacker named Paul Onions, yeah, look, this guy, you want to talk about a close call, this guy's story is nuts because look Paul Onions was

out hitchhiking and guess who picks him up it's Ivan. Ivan picks him up and tries to attack Paul Onions but Paul was able to make an escape he knew something was up something was wrong and off with this guy and he was able to get away and it was a very close call and Paul Onions made a run for it. Paul did end up filing a police report but police told Paul it was unlikely they would find the man responsible because I don't know. I don't know. At least they were honest again. I don't know. It would just suck to like okay you had this like terrifying experience happen to you. You just got robbed and almost murdered. And then you go to police and you're like, oh my God, I was just robbed and murdered.

And like, here's what he looked like. Here's all the information. And then at the end, police are like, so we probably won't be able to do anything for you. But thanks for letting us know. You know, it's like that. It's like, I couldn't imagine. Paul has to now carry this with him, okay? But Paul, he did his part.

He went to police and then he booked it. He returned to the UK. About three months later, police find James's backpack by the side of the road in the same area where that hiker had found James's camera. So the police had put out a statement and the person who found the camera comes forward. I mean, he doesn't want to be associated with the crime.

You know, he's like, hey, I found this camera. Like I didn't know, it's not me. Please don't look at me, you know? But he turns in the camera. Things went quiet for about a year. But in January of 1991, a 21-year-old woman named Simone disappeared while hitchhiking from Sydney to Melbourne. So Simone was heading to Melbourne to meet her mom for a camping trip. But Simone was last seen at a train station in Sydney.

Neither her belongings nor her body were found at the time and it's not clear from the research whether there was even an investigation. So meanwhile Ivan was still like freely driving his truck up and down the interstate minding his own business okay and then later that same year in December of 1991 yet another couple disappeared. Someone's told me the other day, oh, did you know if you would have invested like $20 in this tech company back in 2001, you'd be a billionaire by now. And it's like, wow, yeah, but also I was a child, so I didn't do it. But that's what got me thinking. There's so many things like taxes, stock market, life questions in general, that really sometimes people just don't tell you about, or maybe teach you about. Another big one is life

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Get the right life insurance for you. For less at selectquote.com slash makeup. Go to selectquote.com slash makeup today to get started. That's selectquote.com slash makeup. It was a 21-year year old man named Gabor and a 20 year old woman named Anya and they were visiting from Germany. So Anya and Gabor, they left their hostel in Sydney to hitchhike to Adelaide in Darwin, which is like a really long trip. So it's unclear if they were like planning to hitchhike to Adelaide in Darwin, which is like a really long trip. So it's unclear if they were like planning to hitchhike the whole way. I'm assuming they were because look, this was a time

when hitchhiking wasn't like seen as scary. People hitchhiked back then, which is wild to think of, but like, you know, so they're like, yeah, I'll hitchhike, whatever. Unfortunately though, they never made it to their final destination. And then a few months after that, two female British backpackers disappeared. Okay, we got a list going on here, right? Caroline Clark and Joanne Walters were last seen in Sydney, but they were going to the southern state of Victoria to pick fruit, which sounds so lovely. They made it all the way

to this place called Bowley Pass, which is a winding mountain pass south of Sydney, where they apparently asked for directions. And after that, they were never seen again. But at this point, at least seven hitchhikers had gone missing from 1989 to 1992. And the disappearances are starting to pile up. But then in September of 1992, there were some runners out in Belangelo Forest. They're out doing their thing, minding their own business. And they see something. They discover something.

They go in and investigate. And it turns out it was a concealed corpse. They call the police and all that. Okay. Police come out. And then they find from 100 feet from the body, they find another person's remains. Now, by the looks, they can't identify. But police use dental records to confirm that these bodies belonged to Caroline and Joanne the two women that went that went missing earlier that April. Sadly I mean the

scene just told such a brutal story. Joanne she had been stabbed 14 times meanwhile Caroline had been blindfolded and shot 10 times. Yeah, 10 times execution style. And there was like a little fireplace that had been built near the bodies, which investigators found very freaking strange. Police also found cigarette butts laying all over the area. They also found a used cartridge for 22 caliber gun. So police they set a 100,000 Australian dollar reward for any information regarding this case. So they're like pleading to the public

anyone okay. But there is no like real movement in the investigation for a freaking year. Then in October of 1993, a local man made a very dark discovery in a different part of the Belangelo forest. So I guess this man had been searching for firewood when he stumbled upon bones in like a particular remote part of the forest. So he's like oh shit you know. So he calls up police brings them to the scene and that's where they quickly found shallow graves. It turns out that these were were the remains of Deborah and James's body and the police were actually a little confused to find James's body there because it was over 75 miles away from where they found his camera and his backpack three years earlier. So police start, you know, investigating the site. James was found in

the fetal position with eight stab wounds, some of which had punctured his chest and lungs. It was also revealed that he had been paralyzed because his spine was cut. Jeez Louise. Meanwhile, poor Debra, she had been also badly beaten. Her skull was fractured in two places. Her freaking jaw was broken. There were knife marks on her forehead. Debra had also been stabbed in two places. Her freaking jaw was broken. There were knife marks on her forehead. Deborah had also been stabbed in the back. Both of their clothes were pretty like weather worn but police

were able to see that James's pants like his zipper was open. It was down and but the top button of his pants were closed which may may not be like anything, but detectives actually found Joanne's zipper the same way the year prior. So it's like, oh, you know. And it turns out there was another small fireplace built near James and Deborah's bodies, just like there was at Joanne and Caroline's burial site. So it's like he was like camping with them or something. It's giving me Dennis the Menace.

Did you watch that movie, The Guy with the Beans? So it's October 1993, four years since the first victim went missing and New South Wales police set up a special task force and this task force was made up of more than 22 detectives and analysts. Now this is my own observation blah blah blah blah blah. I just feel like when you have 22 detectives on one case I mean mean, how is everyone communicating? Police already have a hard time communicating with one another, right?

So it's like, I hope they're actually working together. Let's hope for the best here. So over the next three weeks, the remains of three more missing people are found in this same forest. Simone's body is found in a clearing along a fire trail during a police sweep and police found more things that fit the the emerging pattern that they were seeing like stab wounds, cut spine. There was always a small fireplace little fire campsite set up and 22 caliber shells were always nearby. So it was like, okay, this is the, this is, seems to be the same person, right? Police also found clothes at the scene that did not belong to Simone.

Turns out they actually belong to Anya, the German woman who went missing in 1991. So a few days later Anya and Gabor's bodies were found on the same fire trail. So their bodies were in shallow graves about 160 feet apart. Anya had been decapitated but despite an extensive search her skull was never found. Ever. Just not found. And Gabor had been shot in the head six times with a.22 caliber gun. Whoever was doing this, this person was angry. Police had speculated that the killer spent long stretches of time camping out like near his victims after murdering

them and turns out that there was like there seemed to be some ritualistic element to all of the crime scenes like each body was found face down arms behind their backs covered by like a pyramid of ferns sticks and branches so then it's November 1993 and the New South Wales government increases the reward for information related to the killings to $500,000 and the case starts gaining national and international news interest. Meanwhile the police developed a profile of the killer, except at first this profile didn't like narrow things down too much, you know, and investigators were faced with like weeding through a bunch of data. Basically, at this point in time, they had too many suspects to go through. Eventually, various independent reports led the police to develop suspicions about the Malotte family

in particular Ivan but they had no firm evidence linking him to the crimes he just kind of like matched what they think the killer would be remember Ivan had been working as a truck driver for about 20 years at this point a job that gave him exposure to people hitchhiking you know. But some were also thinking that the murders could actually be the work of several killers. And for a while they thought it was more than one person. So police were actively investigating the possibility of like there being multiple or Ivan had an accomplice. Like they really didn't think this guy was doing it on his own.

They pointed out that most of the victims had been attacked while they were in pairs, which maybe meant that there were again, multiple murderers. And then on top of all of that, the bodies when they were found, they were all buried separately. So it felt like a lot of work for one person is what the police are

thinking. He had to have help. How is he doing all this? Then there was a major break in the case. Remember Onions? Paul Onions? Yes. Paul Onions comes to the friggin' rescue. Let me tell you, Paul Onions, great name. There's nothing worse than finding something you love than going to their website and then like trying to buy it or whatever because you're like, I'm gonna get it cheaper. And then you realize their website is trash. Like, why are you making it hard?

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Shopify.com slash makeup. So Paul Onions, the British guy who escaped when Ivan gave him a ride and then tried to like rob and kill him. Yeah. So Paul's back in the UK. He's living his life. He's moved on. But because this has turned into international news, it actually made it back to the UK and Paul hears about the murders going on and the location that they're happening in and this is exactly where Paul got attacked

and he's like this has got to be related I'm gonna call the police. I love Paul because he did the right thing. So in November of 1993 Paul told authorities that he had been backpacking in Australia back in 1990 and And while on the road, he hitched a ride from a man who called himself Bill. Now as they made their way down the highway, Paul became uncomfortable, unsettled by the questions that this guy Bill was asking. He was asking if anyone knew where Paul was headed, for example. Was anyone waiting for him? Bill also asked Paul if he had ever done any special forces training in the Navy. Just like normal get to know you questions, you know? We're not sure like how Paul responded to this Q&A, but less than half a

mile away from Belangelo Forest, Bill, aka Ivan, ends up pulling out a gun. He then tried to tie up and rob Paul. But Paul, he's like, well, he fights back. Somehow he manages to escape. Okay. And he's running and he's running. And I was watching this interview with him and he was saying like, the one thing I learned is if you're ever being shot at to run in a zigzag because like they won't be able to shoot you. So he ran in a zigzag while Ivan was shooting at him, but he was able to escape. You go, Paul. My gosh, poor guy. So Paul escapes and he's able to flag down a passing driver.

Now, apparently this other driver also saw the attack. They both described what Ivan looked like and they also gave police what kind of like SUV the guy was driving at the time. Ivan at this time was driving a silver Nissan Patrol. But you might remember in the beginning where Paul had told authorities like what had happened and they were like, hey, we're probably not going to find the guy, but like good luck to you. You know, well, apparently his report had indeed gotten lost in the mix, unfortunately.

That is until investigators refined Paul's statement in 1993 when Paul had heard about the other murders and had contacted the Australian police. So they're like, oh, let's go looking in our records for this one. So detectives see a connection between Paul's attack and the Belangelo. Belangelo? It's a fun one to say, but it's a really, it seems like a lot of bad stuff happens in this forest, but it's a fun word. But detectives see the connection between Paul's attack at the Belangolo forest murders, okay? And so Paul ends up flying from the UK to Australia to help with the investigation. And honestly, with the help of Mr. Onions himself, authorities were able to close in on Ivan. So now it's February of 1994. Police know like Malat family, Ivan guy, this is our guy. They're doing surveillance on Ivan's

house. And during their investigation, they learned that Ivan sold his silver Nissan Patrol shortly after Caroline and Joanne's bodies were found. I don't know, I say that's all the evidence you need, my guy. You know, arrest them. Investigators also confirmed that Ivan had not been working on any of the days of the attacks. And apparently, some of Ivan's acquaintances also told police about his obsession with weapons. Police learned that Ivan was an avid shooter. I mean, growing up, they had, again, many, many, many, many, many guns. So he was very familiar with it. And on top of that, he often hunted in the very same forest where the victims were found.

Again, need you say more, huh? Finally, on May 5th, 1994, Paul officially identifies Ivan as the man who attempted to rob and kill him. And a few weeks later, Ivan is arrested on robbery and weapons charges related to Paul's attack. They had to get him on something you know. So they got him for a weapons charge at first until they could like really gather all the evidence for the murder charges. And I mean this was a pretty high profile arrest you could see. I mean there were 50 police officers in bulletproof vests show up to Ivan's house, surround his house. When they searched Ivan's home, they found several, not even several, a ton of weapons. A ton.

Including two different types of.22 caliber rifles that matched the guns used in the murders. Would you say it matched the guns or the ammunition? Either way it matched, okay. Detectives also found a third gun called a browning pistol as well as a Bowie knife. What was he doing? What was he doing? But not only do police find murder weapons in Ivan's home, they also find things that actually And like, this is the, like, this is what you want to find because he can have guns and knives all day, but it's when you find stuff that like links him to the victims that is going to really just nail it in the coffin. Like for example, in Ivan's house, they had found Indonesian money.

Ivan had no idea what it was, but he knew that it was a lot of money. And he was like, I don't know what it is. to really just nail it in the coffin. Like for example in Ivan's house they had found Indonesian money. Ivan had never traveled to Indonesia but two of his victims were there right before coming to Australia. So detectives also found cameras and camping gear all belonging to the victims. Detectives also found a postcard from New Zealand addressed to someone named Bill, which I know you remember is the fake name that Ivan used when he picked up Paul. The person who wrote the postcard turned out to be one of Ivan's friends and it's very unclear why he called him Bill. Maybe that was his nickname or something but there's still a lot of questions here. Meanwhile Ivan was being held in custody for questioning but apparently he was

really evasive and just not very helpful. He was initially charged only with the attack on Paul Onions but by May 1994 once ballistic evidence matched his weapon to the other attacks, Ivan was charged with the murders of the seven backpackers. Ivan appeared in court on May 23, 1994, but he ended up not entering a plea. He actually fired his family lawyer that he had used previously because I guess the lawyer at the time was advising Ivan to plead guilty and Ivan was like I'm not pleading guilty. An initial hearing regarding the murders began in October of 1994 and over 200 witnesses against Ivan showed up. Yeah, 200. I know. I was kind of confused like that because there was 200 witnesses, but like nobody like not one. Well, besides Paul Onions, but like not one of those 200 like led them anywhere.

Like it was a little confusing. At least they got him, Bailey. At least they got them. Okay. It's like how are there 200 witnesses and not one person is like, hey, I know that guy. So the hearing ended up lasting until mid-December and based on all the damning evidence presented, Ivan was held in custody

until the start of obviously the big trial. So finally, in March of 1996, Ivan's trial begins. And despite the overwhelming evidence against him, Ivan continues to claim that he's innocent. Even in a news interview, he tells reporters that he believes he will be found innocent at trial. And they're like, really? Why is that?

And he's just, he doesn't really have, it's like he didn't think further than that. They never do. They're just like, I'm innocent. And they're like, well doesn't really have, it's like he didn't think further than that. They never do. They're just like, I'm innocent. And they're like, well, then what about this? And they're like, I didn't think that far ahead. So whatever, I'm innocent.

That's how it feels with these guys. So at trial, Paul was actually the first witness for the prosecution. And Paul's testimony was followed by statements from the family members of all of the victims. Prosecutors also brought Ivan's ex-wife to the stand. Oh yeah. She described Ivan as, quote, gun crazy and told the court that Ivan had killed kangaroos during a trip to Belangelo Forest. Correct me if I'm wrong here in Australia,

but you're not allowed to do that, right? You're not allowed to kill kangaroos. I think they're like protected by your country, correct? I'm sorry. I didn't look that up. So he's not supposed to be doing that. Either way, he shouldn't be killing kangaroos. But she said this in court.

So the prosecution, they also had presented hundreds of exhibits, including expert witness testimony, crime scene photos, all of it. 12 weeks and 145 witnesses later, the prosecution rested its case. Then it was time for Ivan's side of the story. The first witness called by the defense was Ivan himself, who of course denied any involvement in the killings. But apparently he did poorly under cross-examination and made a very bad impression on the jury. Other witnesses included members of Ivan's family, some of whom tried to provide alibis for him.

Yeah, they did. They did. You know, I was watching like an interview with Ivan's family and they're like blood is thicker than water. You know that's why like they kind of like wanted to have his back and stuff but it's like yeah I get that but I think all that goes out the window when your blood starts murdering people. You know but like they just wanted to cover for him so bad Ivan's team tried to say that all the evidence was circumstantial and Ivan's lawyers even tried to point the finger at his brothers or at one of Ivan's brothers finally none of that shit was working okay all signs were pointing to Ivan and on July 27th 1996 after an 18-week trial Ivan was found

guilty of all seven murders. So he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole as he should not get out. But here's an interesting thing I discovered. The sentencing judge that said it was clear that two people had been involved in at least two of the killings, no one else was ever tried. I don't think there was multiple. I don't know, that's just me though.

Maybe there was though, Bailey, because like how was he wrangling two different people in two different crime scenes it's not not possible but it's just like he would have to be really strong but going off track here Ivan did work out and like didn't drink and like he was fit and stuff so maybe he was just like going after people he knew he could take advantage of. I don't know. I don't think other people were involved, but a lot of people do think there were other people involved,

as far as like the Malotte family goes, like the brothers and whatnot. We'd love to hear what you think there, maybe, possibly, but I don't know. Ivan was also convicted of the attempted murder, false imprisonment, and robbery of Paul Onions. I know, thank God. Justice for Paul Onions.

Ivan was first sent to Maitland Prison. And he's been there for about a year before he tries and fails to escape. Yeah. So he's there in prison for about a year. And he's like, I'm going to get the fuck out of here. So he tries to escape. And it fails. He gets caught.

So he ends up getting sent to a maximum security prison in Goldberg then in February 1997 Ivan appeals his conviction on the unusual grounds that he didn't act alone in the murders so he wants to lean into this my opinion but. But then later that year, Ivan fires the lawyer who tried to pin the murders on his brothers. Ivan fired his lawyer because he wanted to represent himself in a new appeal to the new South Wales Supreme Court. He wrote a ton of letters to the DNA review panel, reporters, and Australian newspapers claiming his innocence. And at one point, he even printed out the phrase, Ivan is innocent, using a prison labeling machine. And then he put the labels all over the prison walls. But then in July 2001, Ivan's appeal was denied. So later that year in an attempt to draw attention to his quote unquote innocence Ivan swallows razor blades staples and other objects. Yeah he lived he lived. And then

because this guy does not let up in 2005 a shocking revelation was made that no one saw coming. Ivan's former lawyer, the one that helped him when he was a kid and stuff, made a surprise confession on his deathbed. A deathbed confession? Come on. Love it. So this lawyer waited until his last breath to reveal that Ivan's sister, Shirley, had also helped Ivan in killing Caroline and Joanne, the two British backpackers. Apparently, this is all according to him on his deathbed. Apparently, Ivan's younger brother had also said Shirley was in on it, which is like, what? But also, Shirley had died two years prior.

So were they just trying to pin it on her because she's dead? Do you know what I'm saying? Or was she really involved? I feel like they saw Shirley's death as an opportunity to pin it on her so then they could get out. That's just me. I'm an ass. Maybe. Maybe Shirley was involved. Maybe Ivan wasn't alone. I don't know. But over the next few years Ivan tries all sorts of crazy shit to get some attention. Ivan does all sorts of stuff when he's in prison. He goes on a hunger strike. He tries to like cut off his finger. He tries to kill himself.

He just is like doing it all, okay? In 2019, Ivan was diagnosed with terminal cancer. As his illness progressed, police tried to get him to confess to the murders that he was convicted of. To that day, he had never confessed. Hadn't said a peep. So they're coming to him they're like hey man you're almost dying like don't you want to like let it go you know god all that stuff i don't know they even like played videos of his victims families hoping that ivan would like give them some closure instead ivan just said, quote, people die.

They should just get over it, end quote. So as we can tell, Ivan is POS. He maintained his innocence up until his death, which was like just a few months later. He was 74 years old when he died and he continues to be suspected of murdering many others who had disappeared and never been found. There's a bunch of cold cases that have been linked to him but questions about whether Ivan acted alone, how many victims, I mean all of those conversations really continue to this very day. I mean I hate stories like this because I just want closure you know. It's just I hate people. Ivan's legacy endured in another dark way because unfortunately the story does not end with Ivan. Pl turns out listen are you listening turns out Ivan had this great nephew

named Matthew who was just a toddler when Ivan was sent to prison for his brutal murders but this great nephew was like obsessed with Ivan and his crimes you know know? Yeah. So Matthew's friends said he would brag about his great uncle Ivan, you know? He killed a bunch of people, like in a bad way. And in 2007, when Matthew was 14, he changed his last name to Malat to match Ivan's. Then Matthew took things a step further in November of 2010 Matthew and his friend Cohen they lured a third friend named David into a forest for like a supposed birthday celebration which is so fucked up but when David arrived Matthew tormented and killed him with a double-sided axe while Cohen recorded the crime. Jesus. Matthew committed this horrible murder in Belangelo State Forest, the same place where

Ivan's victims were found. We gotta get some hobbies going for these people. You know it's just like what is going on? There was nothing else for this kid to do. Arts, crafts, you could build a birdhouse. Have you ever done that? That's fun. Well in 2012 the 19 year old Matthew was sentenced to 43 years in prison. Him and his great uncle. Is it great uncle? They're not in the same prison. I don't think that would be smart. You know what I'm saying? I think it's safe to say that there is something off with this family. And that my friends is the awful case about Ivan Milot. And let me tell you.

Because I watched a lot of interviews and like documentaries and stuff. And there's just so much. Because this family was so fucked up. This family that he came from was so fucked up like they were all fucked up so maybe um he had help Ivan had help killing people I just feel I just don't know I don't know but this whole family was so fucked up and then the great nephew like what are we doing what are you doing what are you doing i hope you have a good rest of your day be safe out there all right i'll be seeing you guys later make good choices goodbye