Mysterious Universe - 35.04 - MU Podcast - Plasma Intelligence

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Bookmark the link below for the new Inescapable Podcast coming in Mid-February. Plus+ Members can now find the new feed on your Dashboard and add it to your preferred podcast player ahead of launch. This week on MU, we take a look at Robert Temple's book, A New Science of Heaven. Temple argues that not only is plasma ubiquitous throughout the cosmos, but it may just have an inherent intelligence. He encourages mainstream science to study this fourth state of matter in greater depth, not from a "supernatural" perspective but as a marriage of myth, science, & a newfound curiosity. Then in Plus+ we talk about a series of experiments by Gary Schwartz, who attempts to use the scientific method to investigate the claims of spirit mediums & psychics to determine if there's any validity to speaking to the dead. Is this genuine spirit communication, telepathy, or are these mediums tapping into the collective unconscious?  A New Science of Heaven: How the New Science of Plasma Physics Is Shedding Light on Spiritual Experience Lagrange point Article - Memories of the "Squatter Man" The Afterlife Experiments: Breakthrough Scientific Evidence of Life After Death The Best of Miss Cleo LinksPlus+ ExtensionThe extension of the show is EXCLUSIVE to Plus+ Members. To join. click HERE. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Don't pass go and own it all. Only at Yamava, celebrating its 40th anniversary. You win? Details at yamava.com must be 21-20. Please gamble responsibly. Monopoly is a trademark of Hasbro. Hasbro is not a sponsor of this promotion. Mysterious Universe, Season 35, Episode 4.

Today we're going to be taking a look at Robert Temple's book, A Science of New Heaven. It's his case for a living, intelligent plasma universe. And I tease this on the last show, I believe. And this is the first direction I've gone in this. I'm Joe Hodgian, by the way, joining me as Brandon Thomas, who is a bit under the weather. Ugh. Ugh. That sums it up.

I've got my tea here and my copper vessel with. Mullen and Echinacea in it, man, and we're just going to get through it. And Joe, just, thank you, buddy. This was my run here, but he stepped up and just said, I got you, Haas, and just Roder died the shit out of this thing. And thank you, man. I really appreciate you, bud. Of course. And luckily, I've been looking into this, the last couple days, and on top of it, looking into things for the extension. So if it's a bit rough, it's because I haven't had as much time. I was going to do this next Friday, actually, but I dug into it a little more today. So, I'm going to try to break down this rather academic book, but he does it in an interesting way.

So hopefully we can get through that and it makes sense to the average person. It is really hard stuff to wrap your head around. I mean, I didn't think I'd be looking into a plasma physics book at any point, but here we are. And here we are. Well done. And then for the plus extension, I'm going to be going into a little bit more afterlife stuff, a book by Gary Schwartz called The Afterlife Experiments. And I promise I'll leave afterlife and NDE stuff alone for a while after that.

But I came across this book and I had to share it with everybody. So talk about whatever you want, whenever you want, you do all NDE's if you want, Bub, I'm here for it. Six straight months of nothing to NDE stores. I could actually do that. I have enough material. Let's go. And don't forget to check out Inescapablepodcast.com and plug that into your RSS feed. and you can be ready to roll when the boys start doing their thing next month.

Do we have any other announcements? I don't think so. I think that's about it. So getting into this Robert Temple's case for a living intelligent plasma universe. Like I said, this is a bit dense. And I kind of want to go a different direction with this later. And a couple people's ideas on plasma and the plasma apocalypse and other things I was talking about last time. Love it.

But for now, we're going to get into kind of a scientific look at plasma and what it is and what he thinks is going on with it. So he starts out by saying that for centuries, humanity has imagined the heavens is distant cold and mechanical. A vast clockwork of stars, planets, dust, and gravity ticking away in silent indifference. Modern astrophysics has reinforced that image, the universe as a lifeless machine governed by equations, matter, and blind force. So he's starting out with the general scientific view that is just cold, sterile, you know, has no feeling, it just does its thing. But he starts out by asking a couple of questions. He's asking the big questions here. What if we've misunderstood the very nature of the universe?

What if the cosmos is not dead matter, but something far more active, dynamic, and even possibly alive? his central thesis is pretty bold and sweeping kind of all-encompassing he kind of goes with the idea that the universe is dominated not by solid matter but by plasma and plasma may be capable of organizing itself into complex lifelike and possibly intelligent forms this is not merely a scientific argument but an attempt to reshape how we think about matter life mind and even the spiritual he argues that modern science has overlooked the most abundant form of matter in the cosmos and that by correcting this blind spot we may uncover a new science of heaven which is in the title of the book and he goes on he calls it the forgotten state of matter because most of the time growing up we learn that it's solid liquid and gas but he points out that this is pretty incomplete incomplete because there is a fourth state that's not talked about as much and it makes up the vast majority of the visible universe and he also says that plasma

is not just hot gas. It is ionized matter, where electrons break free from atoms, creating a soup of charged particles that respond to electromagnetic forces. So he lists a couple things. Stars, nebulae, solar winds, even interstellar space is all threaded with plasma. Even the faint glow between galaxies contain plasma. And by measurement, you know, doing the scientific thing, By mass and volume, plasma is the most dominant material form of the cosmos. But he argues that most cosmological models treat gravity as the primary sculptor of the universe, while electromagnetic forces which govern plasma behavior receive far less attention. And it's when you look at those things like that gravity is simply still a theory.

It's just still a theory. If you look at the law of densities, which is far more fascinating, honestly, then that actually plugs into the equations better. and you don't need to wrap your mind around astrophysics to be able to see and simulate that and to recreate that. This idea of a lead anvil floating in mercury, right? This, and then that an apple floats because it's less dense. All these things are just densities,

which is fascinating when you look at this. But this idea of plasma tying all this stuff together is very interesting. You think about the quantum foam that Dr. Doug Mattsky talks about in quantum physics, and he talks about this permeating force just kind of, it's it's entangled in everything and if you had this multiverse if it was just this entire simulation or organic matrix or something like this you'd have to have something tying it all together charging it all and sending information back and forth it's almost like the cambian layer in trees or plants right they have this green layer that sends information and this is why you can

graft other plants onto other plants you can put they have this stone fruit tree in new york that's an experiment with a college, that's got 14 different kinds of stone fruit on it. And the reason you can do this and all these different genetic alterations to it is because it's just got a feed of information that sends up that vine and that cambian layer. So you think of plasma or this quantum foam is this sort of cambium layer for the universe. It just sends information and it gets there rapidly and quick and just sends what it needs to make life in that area work. Almost faster than light speed, you could think.

Exactly. Well, you would want this, right? if you had this interconnected universe, you would need a medium like this to be able to transverse it or connect or at least create it. Because again, if you think of this as a simulation, you would need something faster than your ability to create, to create the thing you're creating in front of you. Right. For the simulation to react, it would have to be faster than that. Right. And it kind of gets into, it verges on the electric universe idea. And there's plenty of shows and material on the electric universe specifically out there or the holographic universe. That's another interesting one.

So when this is where it could tie into the plasma apocalypse, if all this stuff is everywhere and just every now and then something happens and maybe it's random, maybe it's cyclical, that plasma just wipes, wipes an area of the realm out, whatever that means. And this happens all over the place and maybe like clockwork and maybe it's just like that. And this idea, though, of a plasma apocalypse and like that Jay Dreamers guy talks about, we definitely have to get into that. He talks about the Grand Canyon being probably a plasma strike across the realm because of, you know, it's unnatural.

Like the way it flows, it doesn't work, it flows backwards. It's an odd canyon to be there naturally. Oh, yeah. Didn't they find, like, Egyptian stuff over there, too, or caves? And there's a lot of weird stuff with the Grand Canyon. Yes, G.E. Kincaid stuff, man. And then, of course, Smithsonian got their hands on. He went to the Smithsonian, which, I mean, there was your first mistake, man.

That's why we just don't hear about it anymore. Yeah, the Smithsonian is great at preserving and hiding a lot of things, in my opinion. Right. So he does draw on the work of the Nobel Prize winning physicist Hans Alvin, who warned that astrophysics had become overly theoretical and disconnected from laboratory plasma research. And that is my problem, not really a problem, but it's kind of a critique of theoretical physics versus, I don't know, engineering or applied physics, is that it's theoretical. It's all numbers on a paper. And if you can understand that, I applaud you. that is not my, you know, area of expertise if there is one.

And it's interesting, too, because it's like a wide sweeping script that as long as you plug these numbers in, it's going to work. I mean, and you could create that to be whatever you wanted. Pretty much. And I do, we talked about this before, too, and I do respect the scientific aspect of it and the, you know, the ability to replicate an experiment or other people, you know, critiquing it and then saying, oh, this is wrong with it. But if you do it like this, then it works.

that's great, but then when it comes to our observable space that we're in, a lot of times it doesn't really match up. So it matches up mathematically, but not observational. And this is the Thomas Young deal, right? As long as you're observing something, then anything you report is probably going to be more theoretical because you're observing it. It's going to behave outside of the math. Right. Because, I mean, science did kind of start as observational, right? It's 100%.

It went right into changing that from a direct observational. and repeatability into here's a bunch of numbers and that explains it. Formulaic. And this is robbed science of true science. And this is why you and I talk about that science with a dollar sign, scientism is this whole religion that's based off of these presupposed ideas that aren't necessarily true. Again, gravity, theory.

It's so interesting. The theories on theories. But if it's all stacked on nonsense, you know, where does it end? And if that nonsense proves unholdable, then the whole thing collapses. And this is the thing. You just step back from it, start asking questions. Your eyes, honestly, are the best science around here, guys. Go out there and do science about it.

Look around. Tell us what you're seeing. Go forth and do science with your eyeballs. Go forth and do science about it. Hans Alvin, he famously criticized mainstream cosmology by saying that plasma behaves in ways four more complex than gravitational models predict. And in Temple's writing here, he says that plasma physics is not fringe. is just underutilized, underfunded, and underappreciated.

So he does go into a little bit of the universe as an electric structure. He says if gravity were the only major cosmic force, the universe should look relatively smooth. Matter would clump slowly, forming large, soft clouds, but that's not what we see. Instead, telescopes reveal filaments, sheets, braided strands, arcs, and webs, stretching across cosmic space, shapes that look eerily similar to plasma discharge patterns observed in the laboratories.

and he also argues that electromagnetism sculpts the universe far more aggressively than gravity alone because plasma naturally forms these long filamentary structures twisting rope-like currents, double helices, cellular voids, layered membranes,

and self-organizing vortuses. And these aren't passive formations either. They arise from dynamic electrical interactions. And magnetic. Right. A lot of this is magnetic. I'm thinking Ken Wheeler's work on this stuff with the turtle physics and all of that.

Electromagnetics, that seems to be a big part of everything, even the sun. Yeah. And where mainstream cosmology sees only gravitational clustering, Temple is seeing a vast electric ecosystem shaping galaxies like living architecture. And we're going to be getting into that a little bit more in a bit here. But first we're going to go over the strange case of the Cordillisky clouds. And I'm sure some people have heard of this. I maybe I remember that name just because it sounds so weird, but this is one of the most like central focal points in the book is these Cordoleski clouds.

They're huge faint but dust and plasma clouds located at the L4 and L5 Lagrange points of the Earth Moon system. So I had to look that up because I did not know what the hell that is. And I'll actually have a link in the notes if you want to look up the Lagrange points a little more, but just as a quick, quick little thing here. It's, in celestial mechanics, the Lagrange points, also called the Lagrangian points or liberation points, are points of equilibrium for small mass objects under the gravitational influence of two massive orbiting bodies.

And mathematically, this involves the solution of the restricted three-body problem. Also, great show, if you've never watched that. But yeah, I'll link to Lagrange points if you want to get real academic about this. Very cool. I'm interested. So for decades, their existence was debated, the Kordaleski clouds. Then in 2019, Hungarian astronomers, of all people, confirmed them through polarization imaging.

And Temple treats this discovery as a turning point because he describes the clouds as a enormous, also diffuse, but they're electromagneticly active. And they're potentially interacting with solar plasma and Earth's magnetosphere. But he goes a lot further than that. He suggests these clouds may not be passive dust, but complex plasma structures capable of self-organization. What does that remind you of? Dude, yes, nanobot technology,

the things you've been talking about. Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. So I thought that was an interesting little point, like self-organizing nanobots in these massive clouds. It's incredible. I found this thunderbolts.com info article that I'm going to be linking as well.

and this one is Memories of the Squatterman. So many symbolic patterns around the world can now be seen as variations of the global squatterman or this stick man. This thing is first documented by plasma scientist Anthony Parrat. They are stylized differations of plasma charged configuration seen in the ancient sky. And what's interesting about this,

I'm going to link it because it's got pictures to all of this stuff and you guys can see it. But it's really interesting when you're looking at this and compared to the anthropomorphization of humans in the sky. And you look at the pictograph art and things like this, and you've got this very interesting Squatterman image here, again, and it's been done in reliefs on tapestries and stone

and in bells and all kinds of things. And so this seems to also be ubiquitous. A lot of different cultures have seen this. So it's just really interesting to take a look at. I'm going to link it so you guys can check it out. Yeah, what was that? Obviously, the audio listeners, well, I guess and the video, for now, listeners. I can't see that. What was that? I was showing you so you could see it.

So, yes, this is the plasma effect of a three-dimensional plasma discharge from appearing above ancient sky worshippers. Inspiring a vast array of mythical interpretations, the laboratory verified configuration includes a transparent champagne glass from above a transparent hollow donut when seen on edge, which, what does that sound like? Torodo Fields, yeah. and the squashed bell form below, as all joined by an axle spine running down the head of the figure. So you have this very interesting bell shape.

You can also look at tools like the Vajra, and that one is called the Indian weapon that shot all sorts of cool shit. That was allegedly associated with great power, which plasma is probably this amazing power that does all kinds of cool shit here. And this is just a really interesting article again, that we'll just show you guys a little bit more about that image and its relevance to the ancient man, but really what they were showing is what Joe's talking about here,

this plasma effect. Yeah, and he kind of, he's basically leaning towards that plasma is like 99.9% of everything, and that sounds more like what they call dark matter. Dark matter, right? Yeah. But they could never prove that it existed. So are they just simply saying that the universe is,

because that's what they said, the universe is made up in 99.9% of something that we can detect, we're calling it dark matter, but also plasma makes up 99.9% of the universe, but we're just going to not tell you about it. Yeah, and that's why I'm glad that people are coming. Oh, and this, I forgot to mention at the beginning though. This is published in 2022, and there's been a lot of books since then, a little bit less, like, researched or academic one that comes to mind is a book by Dana Kippel called A New Force. And it goes into a lot of this stuff too, but there's, and I might read that. I actually haven't read it so I can't remark on it, but there's a lot of comments that were saying, who is this

chick just randomly talking about this? How is she qualified? And is she, you know, educated in this? But from what I could tell, it has a lot of interesting ideas. And that's what we're here to do, right, is discuss ideas. That's all that it's about. If you've got a document on your wall saying that you're indoctrinated by some institution, I'm much less likely to listen to you, man, because you've got a mouthpiece that you've been educated through. That's just the truth of it. That's just simply the truth of it, man. And folks out there, you're not. doing the real work who've got eyes on this stuff who are doing it unbiased and independently funded or not at all just making it do those are the folks doing the real science about it we all know that

yes in our in our professional opinions of course our professional scientific opinion and again there's not a baby with bathwater there's there's wonderful science going on there's cool shit going on but it's again it's i i feel that the funding is based on a narrative because that's the folks who fund get the narrative and so you know suppressed science we hear about it all the time. It's all about the money. Yeah, for now. That's changing, though. It is, especially since money's kind of changing currently. So this is his general tone of the book, and they call it a leap, but it's not really a leap for the tone of the book, but the question that could these clouds, these Kordaleski clouds, represent a form of non-biological life? So then he goes into when plasma behaves like life,

And there's a significant portion of attention directed at the laboratory experiments involving complex or, quote, dusty plasma, plasma that contains tiny solid particles. And under the right conditions, dusty plasma can form cell-like spheres, create membrane-like boundaries, and organize into lattices resembling crystals. They can also oscillate and, like, have a waveform to them. They can build spirals and helices reminiscent of what? DNA. Crazy. But at like a pretty big scale. Some experiments have even been produced self-stabilizing plasma structures that maintain coherence over time. Temple emphasizes a startling implication. If life is defined by self-organization, responsiveness, adaptation, and persistence, then plasma may meet many of those criteria. He does stop short of claiming plasma life is proven, but he insists that it is scientifically plausible. life, he argues, may not be limited to carbon chemistry. It could exist as electromagnetic structure. And this is where he gets into rethinking what life actually means.

He basically just challenges the general assumption in biology that life must be wet, chemical, and cellular. And that's because that's how we look at life as far as humans go or mammals or what we consider life on planet Earth. But he does it. He has a little reminder that life is. fundamentally about pattern, information, energy flow, self-maintenance, and reproduction, or persistence. You know, persisting to exist. At a spite sometimes. Oh, yeah.

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during times of high network usage. Plasma systems already demonstrate many of these traits. He proposes that plasma life, if it exists, would be, A, faster than biological life, less constrained by temperature or pressure, able to exist in space, stars, or planetary magnetospheres, potentially ancient and older than Earth itself. So looking at it from this angle,

biological life becomes one expression of a broader cosmic principle, not the sole instance of living complexity. Man, yes, it does. That's where he kind of gets into the spirituality part, where it's not just a beating heart and a brain and a, you know, it's not, it's just the meat matter. there's something more to actual life than just that.

So from here we go to Plasma and the Architecture of Intelligence. And so he moves on from life. And again, this is a very like paraphrased book report style thing I'm doing here because it is a lot. And I'm trying to just hit the main points that he gets at and hopefully, you know, paint a picture of what he's trying to do here. but so then he moves on to what would be I guess considered more provocative is the idea of intelligence so if plasma can ignore it organize itself into complex patterns could it also store information process signals adapt to environmental changes exhibit decision-like behavior

and to kind of highlight the parallels between neural networks electrical networks or electrical circuits plasma filament networks all three of those rely on signals signal propagation, feedback loops, pattern reinforcement, and energy-driven computation. And by this, he's kind of suggesting intelligence may not require a biological brain, only a sufficiently complex self-organizing information system. And plasma, he says, could provide that substrate. And this is further proof that consciousness is non-local, like what folks are talking about to the body. Like these indie e-stories you're talking about, honestly, please keep bringing them up, dude.

I love them. Because when folks leave their body, they're not attached to it. it's not a big deal. And most of the time, they don't want to come back. And so it does feel like you're returning to this all or this plasma and you just kind of whipped in here in this body and occupied the thing for a little bit and did a cool podcast with this awesome dude and bounced, you know? And maybe that's enough, but it carries your information. And maybe that's what this past life stuff and all these things are. It honestly makes a lot of sense for this. I'm glad you're talking about it because it makes a lot of sense. The universe needs something like this. Again,

vascular plants have this cambium layer that allows information to be a traveled and so therefore multiple life can be had and then of course that suits all kinds of other life like we suit and destroy more but we suit life too in some ways but it's very interesting to think that this plasma animates and this is maybe that force that's just powering everything it makes sense we're electromagnetic beings all this is very interesting joe well yeah and it it i mean it brings to mind the uh DNA memory or you know how they say that like a single string of DNA can stores so much information and then you get into epigenetics and memory over generations and then you get into generational trauma and you know things that are carried on from you know father to

to the son or so on and so forth like when a potato famine hits a entire group of people the people after them grow very thick dense and they put on more weight and they end up being a lot thicker the generation or two after so that they could survive such a thing would it ever happen to get. It's really interesting. Yeah. So then it goes into the possibility of non-human cosmic minds. And to me, I mean, this reminds me of,

not reminds me of, but it makes me think of how quote, controversial is these kinds of ideas are that there can, I guess it's panpsychism, the idea that the universe itself is conscious, the earth is conscious, the tree outside is conscious, you know, in some way, not in the way that we think of because

we're just humans and we think consciousness in a different way than maybe the aunt does. You know, I went to marry Chris Matthew last summer in Colorado, and we were out in this incredible trip in the woods, and he made these amazing mushrooms. It was the one time I came out of retirement to do mushrooms. As he made him, he danced over naked. I know I've talked about this. So anyway, we're sitting there. Everybody kind of peels off after the giddly bit of it, giggly bit of it, and I'm sitting in the forest by myself under these little saplings. They were only about eight to 12 feet tall because fire had just ravaged the area the year before. And so everything's just sort of growing back. And I'm sitting here,

tripping balls, and I look around at the trees and I swear I was talking to these damn things, dude. I sat there and told them how interesting it was that they could sit still for so long, because I don't think I could do that. And that they could just be in one place their entire life and grow there, and that would be okay with them and not see anywhere else. And they laughed and said, well, I mean, I think we think it's amazing that you move around so much because you're missing everything in the area. If you stayed in one place, you could see it all as it happened. But it's only in that one isolated area, which I thought was an interesting answer from my mind from the trees. I was going to say, is this a direct communication with the trees, or is that you're talking to

yourself? Who knows? I mean, either way, that's the information I got. I've never had a thought like that before. I've never thought to sit with a tree, ask it what it thought about something. And maybe that's the trick, guys. Maybe you just aren't asking. Maybe if you sat down and just hippied out and hug the thing and asked it what it was doing and how it felt about life, it'd give you an answer. Yeah, maybe. But I do agree that life has to look at things differently. And I mean, we've talked about this as well, just bios scales of mammals, of just mammals around here, one percentage of life on this thing. And our biarrhythms are very different depending on scale. If you're at a certain size, you run much, much, much slower. If you're at a certain size, you run much, much,

quicker. You think of a hummingbird or something like this versus a whale. And again, that James Sanger said that whales are depressing to talk to. Because it takes them forever to get a word out because they talk so slow. Yes. And they have a very grim view of humanity, which I don't blame them. Well, they're also very old. A lot of whales are super old. Do you think they're just chaginid?

They're just more of that, get off my lawn. Yeah, for sure. They're just a bunch of Clint Eastwoods floating around out there looking at you with that face from the meme, you know? You with your sonar and your music. Damn kids and your music. But yeah, that does remind me, too, of time dilation. And the bigger things are, they experience time different than a smaller thing. So while we think a fly has a really short lifespan, it does, you know, to us, but to a fly,

that lifetime could seem like 80 years. It's got a full life, man. It dodged a bunch of giants as it was swinging at it. It ate some food. It threw up every time it landed. A bunch of maggots. Yeah, just living its life, man. 600 grandchildren.

And it is interesting, too, to think about, again, this plasma effect. You would need something to be able to. power all of those different bio rhythms at their specific signatures. And it seems like plasma could do one of these. And what's interesting, too, is I thought about this. Have you ever watched the Thunderbirds, that old show from the 60s where they had puppets and shit? And they did a remake of it. What's Team America, the South Park guys? They did that show with the puppets. It's from that. But what I noticed is on models, like whenever you're looking at models of something, because that's what they do in there, they've got a bunch of models of rockets and all kinds of shit.

And what's interesting about it is the elements in the models are always, they will roughly fit to scale. So water looks like water at that scale. Fire looks like fire at that scale. Smoke looks like smoke at that scale. But they're still smoke in our world, fire in our world, water in our world. They're just shrunk down on a camera. But the elements seem to adjust to scale, which I thought was really interesting. As above so below, right?

Right, right. So he gets into the possibility of non-human cosmic minds. So he takes a speculative step that many. readers find either thrilling or unsettling if plasma intelligence is possible and plasma fills the cosmos then the universe may contain forms of intelligence entirely unlike

human life, not aliens with bodies and spacecraft, but vast, diffuse electromagnetic entities. Sure. Which sounds like smokeless fire or gin, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, it does. And it could be living in interplanetary space. It could be dwelling in nebulae. They could be

existing in planetary magnetospheres or embedded within stellar plasma. And if they exist, they might perceive reality on time scales that seem alien to us or communicate through electromagnetic resonance. They could interact with matter

indirectly and remain largely invisible to conventional instruments. He doesn't claim proof of this. Instead, he's just insisting the idea should be scientifically explored rather than dismissed. So that's what I was going to get at, is that plasma

in this context kind of reminds me of the ether. Does it not? Yes, exactly. This is another description of that. Which was recognized up until a couple hundred years ago, really. So another suppressed energy or form of science around us. And it could just be a new name for it. I mean, it's true.

It would be rebranded. This happens. Yeah, it gets rebranded, get people look at it differently with new tools. And they say, hey, there's this all-encompassing thing that Tesla would have called the ether. Or quantum foam. plasma or any of this stuff, man. Yeah, it seems to plug in really, really well. And there needs to be something like that in the equation. I think that that's why they just chuck dark matter in there because they were just like, oh shit, there needs to be something tied to us. There's something we don't

know about this. We're called dark matter and we don't need it. Or junk DNA. And it sounds like they do know about it. They just rebranded to pretend like they didn't. Again, maybe part of this little season idea that everything here, even the well-established and well-known, needs to be absolutely inverted and subjugated. So maybe this is part of the narrative. And that's why we should never stop asking questions, which, like you said last time, is science. That's right, Joe. Yeah. He kind of goes, he points to a return to the quote, heavens with science. And this is what the, you know, the ancients called the heavens.

But so the phrase, a new science of heaven reflects Temple's deeper ambition. For most of history, the heavens were seen as divine, animated, conscious, filled with spirit or intelligence. And that seemed pretty stupid to a lot of modern scientists. but so they replace that with a mechanical cosmos because that's more you know sterile and scientific yeah and to plug into the formula so he tries to reopen this door but not through religion but through physics using that you know the same science to be like no this is if plasma can support life and mind then the ancient intuition that the heavens are alive may not have been that far off and it's not not in a supernatural sense either which is the only way the ancients really could

frame it because they didn't, I don't want to say they didn't understand it. They just understood it in a different way. Maybe they just called it like it was. Maybe it was really all this cool shit. Because again, in this inverted reality, if you were doing this and orchestrating some sort of inversion, you would make it absolutely science, technology. You would abandon and abolish the spiritual nature of all of this stuff. But we know, I don't know what it is, but I know it's of a spiritual nature for sure. That's what it feels like to me. Just some sort of force, some sort of permeating bigger picture here. The science with a dollar sign seems to limit for everybody, honestly.

Yeah, because it's hard to monetize anything that's ethereal, isn't it? Well, right, and if you can just call on something, like a gin or something, or you know that you can just heal yourself with tissue salts, or you know that you can just do all of these things, why would you need any, why would you need to look to them for answers?

And this is the point, I think, that if they abolish all the things that gave you answers before, the natural connection to this realm that, again, we call, some folks call supernatural, maybe it's just natural. Again, maybe those folks back there knew exactly what this stuff was, interacted with it wholly, and you had all sorts of stuff going on. Even the sinusophily, the dog-headed people that were well-documented, the St. Christopher guy,

what is that shit about, you know? There's obviously a wilder realm here, and it does seem like there was something way more magical, and that really what was ripped from this place was the idea that it still existed, or that it needed to continue, or that it was ever real to begin with. And that's what I feel this awakening is. It's this return to that understanding. Yeah. So from there he goes to, it turns a little inward from cosmic plasma down to the, well, I guess you could call it the below as above. So he started with the as above. Now he's gone down to the below to biological plasma. And he points out that living organisms are not purely chemical machines. They are also electromagnetic systems. Examples are like nerve impulses rely on electrical charge. Cells emit biophotons, which are, you know, little tiny bursts of light. DNA operates within electromagnetic fields.

and the heart and brain generate measurable EM patterns. And I mean, the hippies would call it your aura, but it is pretty measurable. It's there. It's just there. It's just there, guys. I don't know what to tell you. So he gets into the idea of a bioplasma field,

which he calls an energetic layer of life that may complement physical biology. While mainstream science remains cautious, he suggests that consciousness itself may depend not only on neurons, but on electromagnetic field dynamics. So he goes into the mind beyond the brain, and this is where the book leans towards its most controversial territory. Temple Reviews theories proposing that consciousness may not be confined to the brain, including field-based consciousness models, non-local mind hypotheses, hypotheses, quantum mind speculation, and bones implicate order.

And that's something I'm not even going to touch because I don't, I'd have to do more research on that. That's okay. But he asks whether consciousness could extend beyond the skull, persist independently of biological tissue, exist as an energetic or plasma-based structure, and this leads him to reinterpret the reports of NDEs, OBEs, apparitions, and mystical visions, not as proof of the supernatural, but as possible manifestations of a non-biological consciousness. I guess you could call it a radical idea of a plasma soul, and he's really careful to avoid dogma or religious. religious, you know, religious mind control type stuff, but he doesn't shy away from the word soul. He says,

if consciousness is an electromagnetic or plasma phenomenon, then what cultures have called the soul may be a real physical, though non-solid, structure. And in this idea, the body is biological hardware. The mind is electromagnetic software, and the soul is a persistent,

energetic pattern, which energy is not destroyed or created. It's just transfer, So if the soul is a persistent energetic pattern, that would stand to reason that it goes somewhere or continues on in some way after the biological hardware ceases to, you know, work. This is the idea. And then we're going to pop in that maybe there's an intercept point called the moon or the bright light that leads you away from returning to the plasma field that you're supposed to and cycles you back in this thing if you don't ask the right questions. You're popping that in there. Yeah.

The moon is the soul trap. that's an old Gnostic idea and it just sucks in that energy and make sure that it stays, recycles it. Yep. And I've got Bome's implicit order if you'd like it. Sure, give us, hit us with that. Bome's implicit order is a kind of hole generated from the basic principles of quantum mechanics which exhibit a global or non-local property of enfoldment of information. Boom.

So he's basically saying what you're saying there, Plasma would fit into that and say that it would be a whole kind generated from basic principles of quantum mechanics, which exhibit a global or non-local property of enfoldment of information. And that's the whole point here is to be able to enfold, encode, and send information faster than light. You'd need to. And plasma may be the ether, plasma, any of these things, may be the perfect item for that. It's fascinating. Interesting.

I think that is why I steered clear of that because it was quantum stuff. I'm not good at that stuff. You're great at everything, Joe. not true, but thank you. So then he says death might not mean total annihilation, but a transformation of state. Exactly. He doesn't present this as a doctrine, but more as a hypothesis deserving scientific inquiry. And he kind of does that a lot in this book where he's like, I'm not saying this is true,

but why aren't we studying this? Why aren't we looking into this a little more? Why isn't the mainstream latched onto this? Why are the people that are studying it getting found in a suitcase with two gunshots at the back of head in a river saying it was suicide. Right. And then it's easily written off again as quacks or whatever else. So interesting. And then he goes into a universe that might be watching.

The emotional undercurrent of the book builds towards a striking implication if plasma can organize, store information, sustain life, and support intelligence, and maybe host consciousness. Then the universe may not be a silent void. It might be observing, responding, and aware in ways we can barely comprehend. And he doesn't claim the universe is. God, but he does suggest it may be far more mind-like than modern science admits. So we're living in a big brain. Very much so. Very interesting.

Then he goes into, and he kind of zooms out from the human consciousness to the structure of the universe itself and the scientific frameworks that attempt to explain it. He argues that modern cosmology rests heavily on the Big Bang model, dark matter, dark energy, theoretical constructs designed to make the math work when observations don't quite fit, which is what we mentioned at the beginning. Yeah. But then he suggests that what if the universe doesn't require invisible substances, but rather a better understanding of plasma and electromagnetism.

I'm putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable there. Be careful. It's something that goes into plasma cosmology versus the gravity-only universe. And he goes back to the Hans Alvin Nobel Peace Prize winner who believed astrophysics had overcommitted to gravity, while sidelining the far stronger force of electromagnetism. So electromagnetic forces in a nutshell are vastly stronger than gravity. They're capable of shaping matter rapidly,

and they're also able to form complex filamentary and cellular structures. So that's electromagnetic plasma cosmology proposes that galaxies may be shaped by electric currents. Cosmic filaments could be plasma discharged channels. Some redshift effects might have non-expansion explanations and large-scale structures may arise from electrical patterning, not only from gravitational collapse. This is perhaps what's going on with UFOs. If you are told that gravity is what you've got to fight the whole time,

then maybe it's an impossibility. But if you are just simply told that this is an electromagnetic universe, and if you do this and this, it negates the electromagnetism around you, and you can actually do anything you want, and what if you're just taught that? Maybe it's a different universe. Again, like Bigfoot thinking that, of course, trees are portals. I mean, why wouldn't they be?

But if you're saddled with something called gravity that you've got to overcome with weight and propulsion and go 18,000 miles an hour sideways just to leave this thing and who's got the time, you know, all those things. Well, that's weird because Brevinnikov allegedly grabbed a bunch of bug wings, strapped them together and negated the electromagnetic effect in this way with something natural just laying around here. And that's very interesting. So again, when we look at this from a perspective of new science, it actually makes a lot more sense. Yeah, for sure. So, yeah, he's not insisting that the Big Bang is wrong, but rather that it's probably incomplete, which is great. That's science. Good job, buddy.

He frames plasma cosmology not as fringe rebellion, but as a neglected sibling of mainstream astrophysics, sidelined by more academic momentum than by decisive disproof. And this is a pretty interesting part where he says the universe is wired like a circuit board. So as the telescopes reveal ever more detail, I mean, they get better all the time, the cosmos increasingly resembles an electrical network. And it really does when you see those supposed pictures of galaxies and stuff, they look like pictures of neurons under an electron microscope. Exactly.

As above, so blow again. Again, what if we are on this giant brain? What if it's your brain, Joe? And if you zoom out far enough, if we get telescopes good enough, we see you looking through the eyes at yourself in the mirror flexing. with my dong out. Yay! He describes galaxy clusters connected by thread-like filaments flowing with energy like cosmic wiring.

He compares plasma filaments to nerve fibers, galactic currents to blood vessels, and cosmic networks to brain-like circuitry. And it's a pretty deliberate metaphor if structure mirrors structure might function mirror function too. I mean, it's something to think about. Yes. So if the universe looks like a network, might it process? information. This is where Temple transitions from physics into cosmic systems theory, suggesting the universe may behave less like a clock and more like a distributed intelligence. He emphasizes a key scientific concept, which is self-organization. And across nature, complexity does emerge

without a central planner, or so were taught, things like snowflakes, weather systems, ecosystems in general, neural networks, ant colonies, and plasma shows kind of the same thing, forming vortices, building layered membranes, all these things we already kind of mentioned. And he says this kind of complexity is a precursor to life and intelligence where mainstream science sees random chaos shaped by chance.

He's seeing a pattern that's moving towards structure. It's kind of the opposite of entropy, right? Absolutely. These swallows that do this, those birds that migrate, and they move like that, and those patterns and how they can communicate with one another and not fly out,

hit, bump into each other and fall out of the sky, It's fascinating. It's got to be one of these forces. Yeah, and he also says that the mind itself might emerge wherever energy organizes into sufficiently complex feedback loops. Interesting, because it's got something to do there. Yeah. It's got some splurin to do. How fucking wild.

See, it could just locate an environment, and that's great for life. Charge it with this plasma, get it information, and then continue to feed and distribute information to this system because it's got a viable environment for it to do so. Right. That's really interesting. That's a new take on panspermia, man. It's plasma spirmia. That's why I thought it was such a good one to cover, even though it is pretty scientific, but the ideas in here are great. Nothing's too over our heads, man. You got this. And this is great to be able to sit here and take things that most folks don't look at because, oh, no, it's from a doctor. And oh, he did the fuck that. You looked at it. You broke it down. And we're able to have a wonderful conversation about this and connected to all kinds of other things, man. That's why I loved it is because it did connect to a lot of things we've already been talking about.

I'm like, wow, this is perfect. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well done. So then he proposes that life may not require DNA cells or water, only organized energy capable of sustaining complexity. So more broadly, though, plasma life becomes plausible. Stellar atmospheres could host living structures. Interplanetary plasma clouds might evolve over time, and life could exist in environments long-assumed sterile. And this is where he changes, you know, he

reframes the search for ET life. Instead of saying, where are Earth-like planets, we could ask, where does complex plasma exist? And that seems to be everywhere. That's a great question. So the Fermi paradox would be like, oh, why haven't we been contacted or contacted ETs? We have all the time every day.

We're constantly doing it. Just not in the way that we think. Exactly. And if you think about two, these orbs ball lightning things like this. Maybe this is this plasma intelligence sort of dipping into the realm, checking things out. Just, I don't know, like a little drone flying through. And maybe that's it.

These plasma intelligences just simply have what we would call physical avatars, but they're still very hard to pin down. They're translucent. They glow. They change color. They change shape. Maybe that's all this is, man. And what does that make you think of? Bigfoot, how they have one foot in both worlds.

They're both physical and non-physical, almost at the same time. Well, and this is another thing. Maybe the realm itself kind of keeps humanity in check in its own way. Again, the Chupacabra might have been sent to Puerto Rico to kind of manage that area because of what they were doing to the environment or, you know, what humanity was doing to itself perhaps. I think maybe the realm, if it is governed by this plasma intelligence, would sort of have an interactive property. It would maybe even send you scary beasts and things to not venture and to keep you on your toes. And I wouldn't put it past any of this stuff. If it's this hyper amazing intelligence, because now it honestly plugs into a lot. The Naguil, as Cassinata talked about, all of these different formulas now can be plugged in with this non-existent fictitious dark matter, but this actually very real and very incredible plasma. Yeah, it's great stuff.

And I think this book itself just ties together so many, like we said, it ties together so many different ideas if you're looking at it from the lens that Temple does. So then he returns to the Cordolesky clouds. Now he's looking at him at the Cordelisky clouds as a test case. So these enormous Earth-moon plasma dust clouds, they sit in gravitationally stable zones, they interact with solar wind,

they shift and reshape dynamically, and they remain faint, elusive, and poorly studied, among other things. And he kind of speculates that, you know, carefully, but still provocatively, I guess, that structures should, or these structures could, store energy or exhibit internal circulation. They could maintain coherence over long periods and potentially act as plasma-based ecosystems.

He does stop short of declaring them alive, but he argues their existence forces science to confront the possibility that complex plasma may be more than just inert matter. Definitely. And he does go into more detail about, like, oh, if you strip ions off of this atom, then it becomes positively or negatively. It gets into real crazy stuff that I don't remember from high school. And then he ties in the UFO phenomenon. I'm glad he did, because I was going to do that anyway.

But this territory moves into, you know, it bridges science, mystery, and modern folklore. He reviews reports of UFO sightings not as proof of spacecraft, but as potential manifestations of plasma phenomenon. He notes that many UFO reports describe, guess what? the glowing orbs, shape-shifting lights, the sudden accelerations, the silent motion, electrical interference, when did we,

when have we heard that? Last couple shows. Well, and two, if you're taking in one of these things, maybe it's a plasma universe that now you enter, and your plasma field is what's taken out, that's a theric body, as they call it. Maybe that animated force is what you're taken into, and this would explain why the insides of UFOs are so freaking bizarre, and maybe why the occupants themselves,

maybe this plasma just kind of shows up however it wants, or maybe there is sort of a galactic federation. I hate to say it, of this organized plasma stream like the council that's just everywhere, or at least has a good coverage to where they've got a bit of hold in some places. And maybe it's not everywhere. Maybe, again, if you said this is like a brain, perhaps we're only in one side of the physical structure of the brain to where, let's say that which side would you think that we're on? If this is a left or right hemisphere universe that you're looking at, which one would you say that we're in?

looks a little left and we look a little right to be in the left hemisphere. And so perhaps this idea of us sort of, I don't know if you want to say, incarnating over into this left-hand hemisphere over here to add a little bit more flare and style and creativity to this thing and make some music out of the noise, if you will, maybe that's our whole role. And plasma organizes itself just fine. And it knows where to send its minds to the vessels that it needs to do that job. Maybe that's what this whole damn thing is.

Yeah. It reminds me of, I mean, it's kind of reductive, but it reminds me of, but it reminds me of plasma as being like the pixels of everything. And if you know how to manipulate them, then you can do literally anything. You can telepathically communicate. You can make things appear that aren't there. You could start a fire on your finger. You know, all these crazy what people called wizards, maybe they just knew how to manipulate these pixels of reality.

What do you got in these incredible kung fu masters that can do things like that? They'll set paper on fire in their hand and things. What are they doing? What chi? Maybe chi again is another word for the, this plasma force energy, this life force energy that flows through all of us. And again, this electromagnetic component to it cannot be understated, guys. I've got in the queue, I just need to finalize the notes on it, but something about the tissue salts and how it has to do with

the zodiac and all of these things, and rather you're into the astrology or not, it has nothing to do with that. It's actually based on when you were born throughout the year because foods are found at that time. You need those salts. Again, because of the way that the sun interacts around the realm at the time. All of these things play out throughout the course of a year. And you were in the womb, of course, for nine months, so you missed a few of those. So there is this entire idea put forth by this incredible doctor and quite a few other folks. He actually wrote two different versions of the work. He wrote Zodiacs and the salts of salvation that all has to do with the astrology because it is measured like that by clockwork.

But then he also wrote a very academic book containing the exact same information, Sands Astrology stuff, so that the information would be out. just because it's good knowledge. And there's basically 12 salts that are around the realm that you need. And this is based on your astrology. So again, if doctors aren't asking you, what's your sign?

You know, and know when you were born and know to apply and make sure that you, if you're a Virgo, that you have these particular salts because your stomach's a little more sensitive. Or if you're in areas, you have these predispositions simply because of how long you're in the womb and the way that this electromagnetic universe allegedly works.

Because, again, salts and it powers you. It's very interesting, man. Keep you in tune with the realm. We'll have to get into that, the 12 cell salts and all that stuff. That's an interesting thread. Mary and I've been doing it for a while. It was Nicole Murphy that told me about it, but it was Steve Falconer, man. We had a great, great chat, and we'll definitely bring it out because there's another book that goes along with it, too, that can tell you based on your face.

You can look at anyone and tell what they're cell salt or tissue salt deficient in. It's very interesting. So when he goes back to the UFOs and the, you know, what do we hear, the glowing, Morb, shape-shifting lights, sudden acceleration, those things I mentioned, he kind of mirrors that with plasma. And he says that plasma can naturally produce luminous spheres, rapid changes in form, electromagnetic disturbances, and movement guided by field lines. You know, almost like electricity running on power lines. Like laylines or something? Do you think it have something to do with this, or the grid lines? I think he probably stopped short of saying laylines because that seems a little more new agey, but he calls him field lines.

even though those are recognized the electrical delay lines. They're recognized. I mean, that's... We can call them field lines. That's fine. That's good. Field lines. I like that too.

So then he proposed it kind of a startling possibility here. Some UFO encounters may involve self-organizing plasma entities, not mechanical vehicles. And in this view, certain sightings might represent rare atmospheric plasma formations, earthbound plasma organisms, or even transient non-biological life forms. Again, he avoids claiming. certainty, but he urges scientific curiosity over ridicule, which is not science by saying, a dumb, a dumb idea. Well, that's not science.

You have to refute that with something. You can't just say it's a dumb idea. Yeah, if that out works. Oh, and look at this. The cultural fear of expanding reality. Where have we heard that? Oh, interesting. Two words.

Temple argues that resistance to these ideas is not purely scientific, but psychological and cultural. A universe filled with invisible intelligence, non-human minds, you know, living cosmic structures, that challenges the comforting notion that humanity occupies the center of meaning. And he suggests that modern science often prefers a

dead universe because it feels safer, more predictable, and easier to control. But truth, Temple insists, is not obligated to comfort us. Thank you. That's right. It is not. Thank you. It doesn't owe you anything. Then he goes into consciousness as a field,

not a product. This is where I think mainstream science would highly disagree because they think that consciousness is a byproduct of the meat, not a field. Yeah. So this is where he zooms back in to the mind. And he deepens his critique of materialistic neuroscience. He argues consciousness may not be merely a byproduct of neurons. It might not be fully contained in brain tissue and it also might not be entirely local or mechanical. Instead, it could be. be a field phenomenon, a distributed process, a resonance pattern in electromagnetic space. So in this model, the brain becomes a receiver, tuner, or interface, not the sole generator of mind. And this allows for extended consciousness, non-local awareness, survival of consciousness beyond bodily death. And he's not presenting this as mysticism, but as a hypothesis consistent with physics,

if we expand what physics allows. And I don't think that modern physics has everything correct anyway. So why not? Why not look into other ideas? And that whole idea of non-local awareness and the brain is a receiver or tuner is not new. No. That's not new at all. We just call it something different now because we came up with radios in the internet.

Because we have wave forms to compare it to. Like, oh, look, like the radio waves that, buddy. Yes, Mark Gover talks a lot about this, holographic universe. You've got Michael Talbot, all sorts of forms. folks, man. Great works on this kind of concept. And it is very important, very important to look at, because again, it takes us from this idea of separate of, we're here, we're screwed, we're all on our own to this larger picture that perhaps we're a part of and not in a freaking, we're all, let's go, you know, not shave our armpits, I don't shave mine, but you know what I mean.

If you want to shave your armpits, do it. If you don't, whatever, I don't care. But what I'm saying is, it doesn't have to be this freaking kumbaya, like, we're all one thing. It's just this recognition that there's something else amazing going on here. And even in that is the freedom because it doesn't, you don't need to define it. I mean, how are you going to do that? You just recognize that there's an unknown unknown that we kind of have a little bit bigger inclination to study on now. And perhaps that's going to be the big turning point with all of this stuff. Because I'm thinking if this is, remember, I told you a story about Peter Whitley telling me that there were these little blue orbs and jars on this UFO that this guy went on.

And he asked what they were, and he said that they were all souls. And again, that they could just go in bodies, and that's it. Maybe this is that flash of light when the sperm takes in the egg. That's the plasma hopping in and saying, all right, buddy, this is your ride for the time. But also, it's maybe not that fixed. Now, again, this may be based on your constitution. Maybe if you'd like to stay in this thing, you do. Maybe if you're a little bit more flexible, you can get yanked out of it every now and then.

Or maybe that's a ride you signed up for. I don't know how this works. But it is interesting, again, when we start comparing all of it. of these things to what we've been talking about for a long time. I know. I thought it was really great that he just basically summarized a lot of the ideas we've been talking about for the last like five shows. It's brilliant.

Yeah, but just puts it all into context. And I think that you and I just kind of came, get used to this. I remember doing this on the old show. I would come across something and then a guest, a show or two later would bring it up. And then I would have an aware of it. I would be able to comment on it. Or I would be looking into something, not tell anybody. And then, boom, it would be everywhere.

It's just this really interesting synchronicity. I think you and I are going to find more and more. Yeah, it's, I think what they called the elf on the shelf thing where the book just falls on the floor from the shelf. And you're like, wow, that looks interesting. And you start reading it and you're like, this is perfect. Oh my God. How did that happen? I wasn't even looking for it.

That's the best, man. And that's what's coming up in plus, too, is a book I found just going through all the stuff, Ben and Aaron sent us. And it's funny because whether they covered it yet or not, that's going to happen people. So sorry. We haven't. But it is going to happen. Well, that's why they sent us all the stuff is so we could cover it again. They are a full recognition of it.

They said, yes, we've done some of this stuff, but we want to see what you guys have to say about it. Right. And just the way that some of this stuff is fitting in with everything we talk about is really Elf on the Shelfy. Because I'm just going through all these books and stuff that they sent us. And I found one. And I'm like, oh, that looks interesting. Start going through it. And I'm like, this is, again, perfect.

And it actually dovetails really weirdly with this show. So stick around for Plus. If you're not a Plus member, go sign up. And this is where it gets into it, what I'm talking about, with in plus is death reimagined as a phase transition. Ah. So if consciousness is electromagnetic or plasma based, he asked the question, what happens when the biological body stops functioning?

And he proposes what to some would be a radical analogy, probably not for the listeners or us, but that death might be less like destruction and more like a change of state, similar to water becoming vapor. So going from this framework, the physical brain ceases, but the energetic pattern may persist. So consciousness could decoher, transform, or relocate. Again, not claiming proof, but insisting the idea deserves serious scientific investigation, which is what we will be covering in the plus extension. Love it, man.

Yeah, it just might be as simple as food turning into fart, and that's just how life works. And then you're gone, and then you move on, and then you hop back in the plasma field. Again, cycles. Throat chock your gram on at the end of this thing, and get out of the moon matrix, you get to go back, maybe, and then you get to anthropomorphizes these orbs

or kind of visit these different realms and be a part of that. I'm in for all of it, man. I'm here for it. And it's really, really cool. It gets in the idea, do you get to choose what you come back as, or do you just randomly evolve because of karma into something else? Like, you've got to come back as a frog because you messed up in this life. Like, I don't think so.

I think you choose. I agree. And here's why. And thank you for bringing this up, because, you know, we're put under a lot of psychology that we are bad and that what we do and want and observe and, feel is horrible and that we shouldn't feel that way and that's a lot of religion that's a lot of programming but again that's the realm attempting to do it's best to keep you small and the way that i kind of uh have described this before as you come in as this pure beautiful light being and you're just

glowing and you're a kid and you're running around you've got all this creativity it's just boundless limitless and then you look around and all your parents and your brothers and your preacher and your authority figures they all have this black goo all over them and you're like what is this and they keep handing it to you to stick all over yourself and so you patch all this black goo all over yourself so you don't shine your light as much. And it's a very important point to know that I feel that that is simply a psychology. And it's simply a psychology to strengthen you to break out of, which is what this experience and all of this is all about, really, because you have to know where you came from to where you're going. Now, to that end, I could say this with all honesty,

that any rung on the ladder it took you to get where you are now in your life. You needed to take that step, no matter how shaky, if it broke underneath you, if you were a dickhead while you it, that's okay. You're here now and you have made those moves and every step that you've taken has been an important one. And so to sit there at the end of all of this and judge yourself, for number one, doing the best you can with the information you have at the time and feeling that you need to go to somewhere horrible, I'm sure that's an option. I'm sure if you'd like for your mind to go that way, again, it seems that you can do whatever you want, but perhaps there is this enlightenment at the end of this that says, oh man, that was awesome. What a great ride. Oh,

that's Satan in his season, man. He really did a good job. That was amazing. Let's go check out something else, Joe. Let's go do a podcast on another universe, you know, something like that. Let's go to a podcast on a less mysterious universe. On a boring universe. We'll just go, well, it's boring. What else we got? Welcome to boring universe. Today we're going to talk about taxes. Yeah. In real estate. You go in that universe and then you just talk about all the stuff that was here and nobody in that universe can even fathom it. They're just like, oh my God, what the hell is this crazy place all about? You guys are nuts for going there.

Taxes. That seems illegal. Oh, it is. Trust me. That's why it's so interesting. So I'll wrap this one up with just a couple other thoughts here. He kind of merges or suggests that science and spirituality could have a potential reunion. And he's careful not to collapse science into religion, but just kind of openly acknowledging their overlapping questions.

So science and spirituality both ask a lot of the same things. what is consciousness, what is the nature of reality, does awareness survive death, is the cosmos meaningful? And obviously they have different answers to these, but they're asking the same questions. So, he suggests that plasma-based consciousness could offer a material explanation for ideas once considered purely spiritual. So the soul as an energetic pattern, spirits as non-biological minds, and the afterlife as persistence of field-based awareness, not supernatural, but natural in a deeper, richer sense.

Absolutely. And so he kind of does a call for a new scientific attitude, which I 100% agree with here. And he shifts from arguing all these things to an invitation for science to be less dogmatic. Stop being so religious in your science. Stop being so dogmatic in your scientism beliefs. Be a little more imaginative. Be more willing to explore unpopular ideas because, again, science. And be more open to interdisciplinary thinking.

He argues the next great breakthroughs will not come from narrow specialization, which is kind of how science is. It's really compartmentalized into these specialties and the right hand's not talking to the left. And so you get these weird answers for these different problems when you could, if you cohesively combine some of these fields of study, it makes a lot more sense. We say this about the UFO, Bigfoot, Fay, all of these things as well, the paranormal freaky woo-woo. We could combine all these disciplines and look at them from a higher vantage point in see that they're perhaps all connected. as well. Yeah. So he asked for a bold synthesis of physics, biology, consciousness research, cosmology, and philosophy all working together. And he closes by returning to the book's central metaphor of the vision of a new heaven. So for millennia, humans imagine the heavens as

alive with gods, angels, spirits, and cosmic mind. Modern science stripped the sky of meaning and left it cold and mechanical and sterile and all this stuff. He proposes a third path, a heaven that is not supernatural, but profoundly alive, built from plasma, energy, pattern, and mind, and not a return to myth, but a new myth grounded in physics, a cosmos where matter organizes itself into living systems, intelligence may arise in unexpected forms, consciousness may not, may extend beyond biology, and the universe may be richer, stranger, and more aware than we ever imagined. So I like his, I like his whole approach to all of it, and he's a very, very smart guy, obviously.

Yeah. And that was my attempt at trying to explain what the book was about. That's a new science of heaven from Robert Temple. So I'll link to that in the show notes of course. You nailed it. I mean, thank you so much, guys. He pulled this together on the fly because I've been just filming like hammered dog shit.

It wasn't really on the fly. I've been working on it for a couple days. Well, you didn't know you were going to do it today. So just thank you. I really appreciate you guys. Always be ready. Oh, you're amazing. Well, thanks everybody for joining us.

And if you're on Plus, stick around for the next extension after the break and it's the afterlife experiments by Gary Schwartz PhD and this is from 2003. It's an older book but it kind of it kind of goes into

not so much NDEs but just afterlife in general and kind of what might be going on with that and I might cover a little bit more of this book on the free show too because I have a little bit more on that but I don't know. We'll see what happens. I'm going to take a break. So if you're on

plus we will see you in a couple minutes. If not, we'll see you next week. Have a great week. Welcome back to your plus extension for this episode. Ambition comes in all shapes and sizes. At First Citizens Bank, we roll with your goals because we're built for what you're building.

Fit for your ambition. First Citizens Bank.