Mysterious Universe - 36.01 - MU Podcast - Beyond and Back - The Christian's Guide to the Eternal Afterlife

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

Welcome to Mysterious Universe Season 36 episode 01! Kicking this fresh new season off with a look at the uber-religious view of what happens after they die. Christians believe that death is not the end, but the beginning of an eternal existence based on faith in Jesus. The afterlife centers on the promise of a restored, perfect world-often described as a renewed Earth-where believers experience unhindered joy, total healing, and the continual presence of God. Today, we talk death, dying, and your right to die. That includes a 30-minute-in-heaven near-death trip to a crystal city in the sky to hang out with super Jesus. Only to be pulled back into your body by a death-rebuking reverend, who you asked to be there. Hold onto your belief systems as we talk “Beyond and Back”, with some near-death-experiencing , after-life visiting Christian’s. In our Plus+ extension we go into Walter Russell's The Secret of Light. Russell's classic workpresents a vision of reality where consciousness, not matter, is the foundation of the universe. We attempt to present his ideas about Light, balance, electricity, cycles, and the wave nature of creation, exploring a worldview that attempts to unite science, spirituality, and philosophy into one broad explanation of existence. Beyond and Back: Those Who Died and Lived to Tell It! Fae of the Ferns on TikTok The Gnostic Epic of Mary Magdalene and Pistis Sophia Ralph Wilkerson Endorses David Diga Hernandez KAREN ANN QUINLAN, 31, DIES; FOCUS OF '76 RIGHT TO DIE CASE The Secret of Light by Walter Russell  LinksPlus+ ExtensionThe extension of the show is EXCLUSIVE to Plus+ Members. To join. click HERE.Links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

See you there. Welcome to Mysterious Universe, season 36 episode number one. First episode, can you smell that, Joe? That new season smell? In the morning, yeah. It's fresh and unfarted upon. Beautiful. Today we talk death, dying, and your right to die according to evangelical fundamentalist Christians. Offering a bit of context for the Messiah and his miracles. Ahead of our necromancer talk, though, which is going to include 30 minutes in heaven, a near-death trip to a crystal city in the sky to hang out with Super Jesus, only to be pulled back in your body by a death-rebuking reverend who you asked to be there in the first place. Hold on to your belief systems as we talk beyond and back with some near-death experiencing afterlife visiting Christians.

I am your mostly undead host, Brandon Thomas, and with me as always, as the man who first found out flagellence is flammable, smoking. Joe Cameltoe Hodgden. That was quite some years ago when I found that out, yeah. I like that you're following on with this NDE thing again. Not on purpose. Yeah, oh, I know, but it just works that way.

It works that way. For the free listeners, our first show back of this new season was actually Tuesday, but it's a, I covered a, fuck what was it called? Oh, Heaven or Hell by Emmanuel Swedenborg. And thank you to Quinn for sending that in to me. And coming up in Plus, we're going to be carrying on this idea with a Walter Russell book, The Secret of Light from 1947.

And thanks to Jacob from Arkansas for sending that in. Shout out. Look at that. Synchronicity. I know. Synchronicity for sure. And I know that you mentioned it. Now, we have already been back from the break as far as the Plus members are concerned. We do have a banger out. We pull Swedenborg out and deep dive into that shit, which is brilliant, man. Now, but for you barnacles out there, Joe, how was your break? Oh, it was awesome. We talked, yeah, we did talk about it on Tuesday, I guess, but a lot of rest and relaxation

and not looking at my computer and not looking at the inside of a book and mostly just kind of messing around. You know, my kids off school for the summer. So we were playing some Zelda as we do. And yeah, just a lot of doing nothing. It was great to have a nothing box for a few days. How was yours? For damn sure.

Mine was awesome and in detail on the last Tuesday show, so I'll just let everybody sign it for Plus and let them hear what I did over the break. And we are looking forward, though, to this season 36 of Mysterious Universe as we dive genitalia first into the unknown. But before we get to this episode's awesomeness, what is it that you have coming up on the extension? You said briefly Walter, but a little bit more. Teases. So this is actually, I mean, again, I know the name, just like Emmanuel Swedenborg, but Walter Russell quite philosophies. And the secret of light, he just basically goes into, I mean, in a nutshell, the whole book is light is everything. But it's also kind of nothing.

But light is what simulates this reality kind of idea. So back in the 40s. I love these turn of the century books, this throwback shit. I saw Benjamin Owen talking about this the other day in front of his keyboard. Did you see this, Big Bear? No. He was sitting there talking about oscillation and frequencies. And whenever you double something, of course, all you're in an.

octave in pitch, all you're doing is you're taking that note and you're cutting it in half. And every time you do this, whenever you do that, it shortens the wavelength. And he said it a certain note, if you do this a certain number of times with the note G, for instance, then you get the color red. And if you do it another certain amount of times with the next note, you get the color orange. So really hurts frequencies at a condensed vibration are colors in form, which then are lights. So you really can hear colors.

Yes, this is the thing. Cinesia is an absolute thing. For those folks sensitive enough to perceive it. So then you think about dogs and those that can hear those frequencies, are they more seeing synesthesia, those same frequencies? And at a level, the things you can't, quote, hear do you see instead? But you recognize them as sound. I wonder if that's the way blind people perceive things. If there's any blind people listening, let me know. Yes, let us know, because we're very curious. And thank you guys for listening, too, by the way. That's great. That kind of goes into some cymatic stuff. And another shout out to another listener. Bailey for uh we got to talk to her over the break too and yeah i'm going to be involved in a little yoga thing she's got going on that involves sound in cymatics and i definitely want to find a good book if anybody out there has a recommendation for a good book on cymatics send it over because i'm looking for him oh yeah definitely a lot of great things to be said about that when you get to your yoga practice let me know mary and i were just talking about that i'm going to say four days

ago we're like dude we got to get back into yoga because i'm doing these mild stretches in the in the a m there in the sun but i'm a serious uh yoga practice what I'm talking about. We could totally zoom and do this together. Wouldn't that be adorable? Oh, hell yeah. We'll go Unitar's and do it. In a super straight way. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No, no ditty. Yeah. Let's begin this conversation, though, by planting a seat of context for the perspectives offered in this work.

Now, this work is going to be beyond and back. Those who died and live to tell it. This is an old book printed in the 70s. I got it on break, and this is what we're going to talk about. before we get to this. 70s again. Oh, dude, I'm telling you, it's all right there. And this one just jumped off the shelf at the store. Yes, I'm still buying books.

So this comes to us from Thay of the Ferns on TikTok. And I'm going to be linking this young lady's TikTok account as it goes, as doing work. This pops in. And this setup for, again, gives us some context for the Christian perspectives that we're about to offer about the afterlife. Now, in that video, she is. is tick-talking about what she found by reading the Bible, the Pista Sophia, and the Book of Enoch, as well, she's got like a Gnostic Bible, some other religious texts, and she's been doing this real deep dive of a widespread look at all of these concepts together.

Nice. Now, the Pistosophia, I linked a video on it, if you guys are interested in further study on that, titled the Gnostic Epic of Mary Magdalene and Pistosophia. And you can dive deeper into that. Basically, Gnostic gospel talks about a lot of things that the Bible does. not acknowledge. Isn't that heresy to talk about Mary Magdalene as anything other than a hoor? I think that's why you have to talk about it.

Anything they say you can't talk about it's immediately while you're like, well, that's all I want to talk about now. In that video, the Faye noticed, she noticed that Jesus dies, he's resurrected, and that with his disciples, and this is chapter 15 in the Pistis Sophia, Jesus goes up to the 12 aeons, which are spoken of in Book of Inok, right? That's where he goes, hangs out. Jesus goes up into the 12 aons. He pulls a third of the power so that they would be weakened.

Okay? Now, you may be, bells may be ringing on a similar correlation that you've heard from the Bible, where Lucifer went to heaven and he took a third of the angels, who were over God's freaking holier-than-thou attitude, and he brought them with him back down to Earth. She also makes the connection that Jesus takes a third of the power from the aeons, Lucifer takes a third of the angels from heaven, leaving Michael with two-thirds in each case.

Now, Jesus did this to weaken their evil doings, okay? But she points out the angels in the Bible, when they got to Earth, what did they do, Joe? They mated with the human women, so to speak. They mated with the daughters of man and created a race of super freaky cannibalistic giants. That's right. Yeah. What's this book called again? The Pistis.

Oh, yeah, the pistis Sophia. Okay. Yeah. That's what do they call it, the apocrypha or the... It's, yeah, one of the Gnostic Gospels that was not included in the Bibles, but it's kind of in that wheelhouse. It's like you've got to include it for context if you are looking at things honestly at a broad scale. Again, with Enoch and Book of Thomas, anything like this. They were pulled from the Bible for a reason.

So the Bible said you shouldn't ask these questions or these things should not be included because of the narrative. Then again, it draws our attention. We're curious about those things. Secret Book of John, I think is another one. I actually have it. Is it in the Nagamati? Because I have a copy of that over there. I am not sure what context it has in the Nagamani.

But I'm sure it's part of it. I'm pretty sure it's in there. Because any of Dead Sea Scrolls, which are another completely different telling of the Bible, which is how they found out Flavians were most likely ones apprehending the mindset of the Bible. Again, all these fascinating texts in conjunction. So if you stopped at the Bible, you only get one perspective. But if you read them in conjunction, because Enoch is mentioned in the Bible several times.

Well, doesn't the Ethiopian Bible include all these extra books? They have like 88 instead of the 66. Right. And she mentions that she also has an Ethiopian Bible. So this is also brought into context. Great call. Now, in the Bible, with Jesus is a rebel. He's changing the rules, man.

He's slipping tables. You know, no need to sacrifice anymore. Basically just all the things that God, the creator of heaven and earth, declared, he just nulled and void through a novation of the declaration, right? one of Jesus' A.K.A.s is the son of man, right? Right. Well, one of many, yeah. Yep, one of many. Now, which in the Old Testament, the Son of Man was labeled as the Antichrist. Now, Jesus taught folks to be kind, to love each other and to, you know, turn the other cheeks and all that kind of stuff.

The Old Testament God and New Testament God are remarkably different entities. I've said this forever. It's like you have problem, reaction, solution. God creates all this. this shit, does all these things, kills all these babies, murder from the beginning, all that, and then says, oh, well, I'm going to send you a flesh and blood, my son down. He's going to die in front of you, which is going to be great. You're going to eat of his blood, drink of his, eat of his flesh, drink of his blood, all that. And then it's just going to kind of wipe the slate, clean slate sees, right, guys? But you're the same dude that could have just not done any of this shit in the beginning. You know what I mean? And then also, it always calls into

question for me, the people who were fucked before Jesus was here and just offered this out. It's sort of like when weed got legal in states, were all the people who were in jail for weed immediately released? No. Do you see what I mean? Exactly. So it feels like this sort of clumsy, if I'm honest, a way to go about godhood. Yeah, just not maybe not thought out fully, I guess. Correct. And from our human perspective, of course. I mean, again, Joe, as infinite wisdom is beyond this. And though we sit here and say, it's questionable. And again, you know, how many different versions of Christianity are there out there. But still, certain religions believe that Jesus is the Antichrist and he's dying and being tortured and burning excrement all the time.

I think that's the Talmud. Yeah. And the Old Testament was facts that were continued where the Old Testament God left off, being super mean and gay, their religion continued. This religion, you know, that's unmentioned perhaps. You can probably figure out. And if you think about it, Jesus in the New Testament is relieving the burdens of worship of the old God. The New Testament starts the reign, ironically, of the Antichrist in Jesus. Hmm. The Nasa Gospels and the books deemed too hot for Christians to be removed and maintain the narrative. That was very important for all of this.

Now, Jesus is taking a third of the power out of the eons, and in the Bible, it's the devil that did that. He took the angels and the power away from heaven. So again, if we're looking at an all-out perception management campaign to bolster the new God and remove the old one with far more of the same, just less upfront about its true intentions, making it far more deceiving, this would be the way. Not to get ahead of you, but is this a Jesus is the brother of Lucifer or something like that idea? Well, I mean, you know, the adversary, it's got to be left-hand, right-hand. One can't live without the other. It's when you get into the semantics of logistics on these things that they start to crumble.

And this is where all the different factions of belief are created. It's because, yes, you look at this literally and it breaks apart sense. It really does. So then you need other people to kind of go with your interpretation of it. And then this is where, again, we get the widespread differences. Why I was asking is because, like you said, with the A.K.A.s of Jesus. I mean, he's also known as the lion of Judah. But Lucifer is also known as a roaring lion who walks about.

I mean, Jesus is the light of the world, but so is Lucifer. He's the bright morning star. I mean, it's weird. And so we could just say maybe not brother, but maybe is, perhaps is. Because what guided... Different attributes. What is Lucifer, okay, Venus is called Lucifer or the morning star, right? And that's because it's the brightest thing in the early morning sometimes.

Right. What was it that led the wise men to Jesus' birth? a big ass bright star yeah in the morning so you see how it's like probably the same dude that like Satan really is Jesus really is God really is Satan you know yeah I mean heresy on heresies shame on you

but it's very interesting pattern seeking on pattern seeking if it's right there in front of you I mean how do you not especially like she points out in there the third and I've linked the video guys if you want to go check it out it's really interesting it's just a great thing to add to our perception as we look at all of this stuff. And let's remember to keep this in perspective as we look at the book here that I got at half price over the break. And yes, again, I'm still buying books. I went out,

I was doing shit. I was like, you know what? Half price is over here. Got it. And it's amazing. Now, the back cover here reads, what happens to a person five minutes after he dies? What physiological change occurs to a person who returns from death? Is it morally right to pull the plug on life support machines? And how did Howard Hughes almost take his wealth with him. So one of those things, not like the other, but I like that it's included. And we're going to talk about the right of pulling a cord today. What we think about all that. But first, have you ever heard of medley land? No. In Anaheim, California. Okay. It was a Christian center and a church in Anaheim, California. I was located just a short distance from the Disneyland

Resort. The medleyland theater and the surrounding campus was a theater in the round that later became an evangelical Christian church led by this guy, Pastor Ralph Wilkerson, who is also the author of this book right here. So the medleyland theater and all of the buildings on the church campus were demolished in 2003 as part of this Anaheim Garden Walk thing that was built on the site, which you can apparently still go see to this day. But the 3,200-seat medley-land theater, at 400 West Disney Way in Anaheim was built by this guy Leo Friedman. And the first production there was Annie Get Your Gun. In 1969, the property encompassing Medleyland was put up for auction in the Christian Center

church headed by Ralph Wilkerson bought the property. And he called the church Medleyland Christian Center, also retaining the theater's original sign. So he just kept the sign, called it Medleyland. That wasn't the name he wanted for his church. it was just already the name of the building. So later, Medleyland would have a school of divinity called the Medleyland School of Theology. That later changed its name to Southern California Christian High School or S-C-C-H-S for short,

being that absorbed by Eastern Christian schools, blah, blah, blah. So the deal is, is that there's this huge megachurch with evangelicals, all this kind of stuff. Because you know Pat Robinson, Pat Robertson? Sounds familiar. Evangelical dude. and then Walter Martin. These dudes, big in the church scene, big evangelical top folks,

they absolutely promoted this book and even have a little shout out for him in the front cover there. Joel Osteen-esque. Yes, definitely Joel Osteen-esque. But the book, Beyond and Back, Those Who Live to Die and Tell About It by Ralph Wilkerson here. There's one used copy that I could find on Amazon.

So who wants to get it? Who wants to get it? Whoever gets it, write us in and let us know. It's only seven bucks. If you can also find it somewhere else, there's two different copy cover versions for it. I just linked the first one I found. I also found a little video of Reverend Wilkerson here endorsing some of the, some new mouthpiece for their faith-quite-based organization. And it's going to be linked if you guys want to check that out.

Just to run over it here, though, real quick. Ralph Wilkerson was a leading father in faith in the 1960s. He and his wife, Elaine founded Medley Land, a church that eventually became the site of a tremendous. tremendous outporn of God's Holy Spirit, Joe, don't you know? Hallelujah. The impact of Ralph Wilkerson's divine call affected the church on a global scale. And that's the thing in the book. He talks about going all over the world.

There's a bunch of things we're not going to cover in this one. We are going to continue this on Tuesday. I can already tell you that. But it's going to be to a different degree. Folks that sit up out of coffins and talk, they say full sentences about God and then lay back down and die. Crazy shit. We're going to talk. He was there for it because he prayed over him and summoned.

dude, it gets into possession and we're going to talk about that too, but we're going to do that on Tuesday. Sounds more like zombies. Right, right. But they compel the zombie. Been dead for two days? Okay, we'll talk about it. Now, the deal with this is, though, so what do you think, first of all, before all this, before we get into this, evangelicals, when you hear evangelicals afterlife, death, that genre, what's the first thing that comes to mind? heaven i guess

heaven and avoiding hell yeah yeah mostly avoiding hell is the uh the main motivation i think yeah what is it hell evasion it's not tax evasion it's hell evasion okay so he addresses in this video again this um young stud here this this david diga hernandez as he talks about his new wave of preachers in this quote and again i'm going to say this is going to set up our book here okay this from the the video, this is Pastor Ralph Wilkerson, the author of our work here, very old, sitting there talking about to this new guy.

It says, Atalus, we've got to begin to pray for preachers and ministries that are trying to fight devils and everything else. You are an answer to my prayers, talking to this young guy here. God is using people like you. David Digger Hernandez just got back from the Philippines where Reverend Ralph says that God did tremendous things and he's doing it again. One of the most vital ministries that I know of about ministry is the heading ministry, the name of this dude's church. It involves young people and old people.

It's a supernatural ministry. It's the ministry of the Bible. It's the balance ministry. It's the ministry that we're talking about today. And I tell you, Brother Nandes, that's short for Hernandez. They're comfortable enough. He's beyond the Ustead. He's not calling him Hernandez.

It's Nandez. And I like that. When I look and see what God's doing and some of the young preachers, I studied all the prophets about hundreds of them in the Bible. And you know what God said? God said, that's wonderful. But there are prophets today who are in the church. And you say, I don't know who they are, but well, just keep looking to listen to them because these men are powerful.

They're powerful. Women and men of God, you're used by the spirit to reveal only what's coming, but of what God's doing right now in the name of Jesus. Do you see how everything's outsourced to a spirit? Of course. And again, Jesus, we've offered context. I pray to you that you open your mind and you support these ministry. which is in its infancy and brand new. And then, you know, he goes on to bitch, pitch the piss out of this thing.

Oh, did he need a new private jet? Yes, they do. Jet fuel is getting quite expensive, y'all. I don't know if you knew this. And the process on a drain of chrome, I mean, go-go juice from my heart is just going up. I tell you hood. Oh, Lord Jesus. Anyway, it's a rant from a preacher talking about how he is dividing himself.

and now he is splitting himself via osmosis into all these other preachers to then go out and keep preaching the good word brother. And they do this all over the world. Now from the book, Beyond and Back, first printing in June, 1977, they had a second printing in September the same year, so goddamn popular. There's this story called In Heaven 30 Minutes. Universal Interest in Life and Death has sparked major magazine headlines and peak television. ratings and people are just confronting mortality like crazy it's a shocking revelation to think about but a lot of folks are talking more about death what do you think about the whole concept of

death have you and your son even had like a deep death conversation uh no he i mean he knows what he's 14 now he knows what death is uh i don't know what his real uh you know thoughts about it are haven't had that talk yet but uh i mean we just talked about what happens when you die on the last plus show too well from swedenborg's perspective But it is funny if you listen to that episode, how closely it mirrors a lot of experiences you hear about with the NDE phenomenon. I mean, it's real close just from a slightly different angle because of your culture or upbringing or whatever. Yeah, absolutely. Reverend writes that people are confronting morality and its aftermath.

It's a shocking revelation and everyone will return to life someday. Regardless of race, religion, age, or social status, we will all return. But what I like about what you talked about on the Sweden board work was that, yes, it is, but it's not some morality contest of which you were never given the rules or you were given rules by shitty representatives that you don't agree with and all that. And that determines where you go, well, it kind of does. But it's really more about this resonance. Again, that Swedenborg episode was badass. Thank you, Quinn, for that. Yeah. Another thing is, yeah, you're raised with interpretations of rules or interpretations of the Bible. You're not raised like, You have to follow what the pastor says about the Bible, not read it for yourself, which obviously they do encourage, but it's kind of like back when the Bible was only in Latin, only the priests could read it. So you had to take the word of the priest instead of going directly to the source and making your own interpretation of it or your own view of it. And then it seems they would know that and at some point removed a bunch of books from the Bible except in Ethiopia, who's also on a different time. It's 2018 right now for them, which is cool.

And it's just interesting that then all of it was split even before folks started or as probably folks were starting to read. Now in the past, the fear of death prevented people from examining corpses. It turns out that for some, death is the greatest fear of all. Do you fear death? Here we go. Someone's already claiming this is our year. Someone else said that last year too. A round of James and ginger and lime arrives at the table.

Smooth enough for kickoff, smooth enough for extra time. New friends pulling up. up a stool. Debates about whether that was a handball. Cheers rising like a roar around the room. Because match days are about the shared moments. How did Jameson to your match day lineup?

Jameson, it's what you bring. Please enjoy our products responsibly. Not in the slightest. Okay. I mean, besides all this stuff we've done, I've had enough, I guess, psychedelic experiences where I'm like, I don't know why that would trigger

a lessening of a fear of death, But I don't anymore. It's not that I think we've talked about this, too. It's not that I'm looking forward to it, but if it happened, I'd be like, oh, nice. Now I get to see what this is. Absolutely. And I think that's what psychedelics are supposed to do, is make you cool with death. And so, yes, same sees, buddy.

I'm cool with it. Practicing for death. Yeah, yeah, why not? Now, the Reverend writes that society has disguised death through various means. Graveyard denouement memorial gardens, markers replace tombstones, undertakers are called directors, coffins or caskets, curses are pastel vehicles, obituaries are obsolete, popular songs replace hymns, poems, poems replace prayers, tributes replace sermons, mausoleums, due to land shortages, dances and diners replace mornings and veils. Funds are sent to charities instead of flowers, and the deceased may not attend funerals as their remains have already been buried or cremated. the perspective of the Christian on this is what I find most interesting on this.

Because as he goes through this, it's a lot of glory to God. It's a lot of God could have but didn't for his own reasons. Again, you've got to filter your entire reality through that as we go through this. So here's the story of a cabinet maker who spent 30 minutes in a city and outer space, only to come back to Earth to tell about it. Now, on the morning of December 29th, 1971, Marvin Ford suffered an acute inferior mitochondrial infarction. You know what that is?

I think it just means heart attack, doesn't it? Yeah, heart attack. It occurs when the bottom wall of the heart is damaged due to a blocked coronary artery. Very good. Infarction is a great word, though. I know, I like that. Symptoms commonly include chest pain, nausea, or shortness of breath. Immediate emergency care, such as aspirin or prompt rosary,

re-vascularization is what you need there, Joe, is critical to restore blood flow. I'm sure some mineral salts would probably take care of a lot of that kind of stuff. Preventative maintenance, as it were. Now, Ralph says that this cabinet maker did not realize at the time, but he was about to make a fantastic trip into the beyond and then return to enter into a ministry that would take him around the world. I'll tell you what. Now, here's the story that he tells in voice. Marvin tells this story in an article I cannot locate the article, guys. I would have linked it if I could, but allegedly there's an article that he quotes, and we're going to introduce that. So here's the story in International Magazine.

Now, Ralph does cut in where he is mentioned in the article, and this is kind of interesting, from his own perspective, a couple of times back and forth, which is kind of neat. So as Marvin in the article is telling his story, Ralph, as he's relaying the story, will then pop in to give his what happened in that part of the article

and then back again. Now, Marvin's words of the event are, in 1965, my wife, Oliverna, became affiliated with Christian Center, now Medley Land in Anaheim, California. And my wife played the piano for as many as five services each Sunday. And I directed the congregational singing. Now, during this time, I was promoted to formant of one of the largest millworks of Southern California.

But my back was giving me a great deal of pain. And I knew that one day, I'd no longer be able to continue the pace. And on December 13th, 1971, I checked into the La Habreya Community Hospital for a complete physico. I was put through every test imaginable. Five days later, my doctor dismissed me, explaining that I had some arthritis in my back. But your heart, he said, that's like of a 25-year-old man, come on.

Then, on the morning of December 29th, while transferring some four micotops on a decline, the load slipped. In desperation, I attempted to steady it, but the strain was too much, and something in me snapped. And at first I thought I was coming down with a flu, and yet it felt as though an elephant had stepped on my chest.

The pain was excruciating, reading down my left arm into my chin. Now, I tried to raise my left arm, and I couldn't. When my boss offered to drive me home, I stubbornly refuse. And I laid out and worked for about 20 men and then drove home by myself. Wow, he's just going to take a nap in the middle of an infarction. Yeah, no shit. I don't think that's recommended. No, he's just going to carry on work.

He's a tough guy. You know, got to get the job done. Got to lay the guys out for tomorrow before I go home and die. Yeah. Breathing deeply in spite of the pain so that I might get as much. much oxygen as my lungs as possible. My wife drove me to the hospital and in a few minutes several nurses were working on me. One put suction cups all over my chest, taking electrocardiogram. Another was trying to find my pulse, and she couldn't. They jerked the suction cups off and they

pushed my bed down to intensive care and they started intravenously feeding me with medication and gave me morphine for the pain. My doctor arrived and set up a monitor above my head to watch ever heart. heartbeat. He'd had pneumonia himself and I joked with him about who needed a doctor most. Then I offered to pray for him and the Lord touched him and the next morning he was feeling fine. Wow. It's that kind of shit. I'll be honest. I could do without, thanks to me, asking God to do his job according to me, that doctor felt better. Thanks, funny. Now my condition was diagnosed as acute inferior mitochondrial infarction, which is a fun word to say. The following afternoon I went into cardiac fibrelation and arrhythmia, which is a disturbance of the heartbeat. And a cardiologist was called, and I heard him tell my Dr. Jim, there's no further need to return to this case.

The patient cannot live through the night, probably not more than two hours. And they thought I was unconscious, and I couldn't hear him talking. But in the meantime, my wife was trying to get in touch with Pastor Wilkinson in Medleyland. He was in Texas. They'll expect it back that day. And about 6 o'clock that evening had arrived at the hospital. was escorted into my room by the head security guard who just happened to be Christian. That's convenient.

I know, isn't it? This Leica Trachs-Light comes in, too, though, on this, too. You know what I mean? Like a fraternity. Reverend Ralph picks it up from here and his perspective, and he talks about how difficult it was to get into the room to see Marvin because of such a big deal he is and his friends in high places. It made him easy for him. And later, he wasn't going to get any gruff.

Now, I saved you about three pages of shit there in that one deal. Now, Ralph says that death is an enemy, and he could see the color of death on Marvin and smell death in the room. Now, when he walked into the room, he could actually feel, he said, a spirit of opposition. As the nurses gave him oxygen, Ralph prayed. He battled the opposition by quoting resurrection Bible verses such as the passage, Greater is He, that is in me, that is in the world. Wait a minute, if he healed the doctor, why didn't he just do that to himself? Well, Marvin healed the doctor.

Marvin healed his own doctor. And then this guy, the Reverend, was just here to help Marvin out. So it's sort of like a circle jerk. Like I'll jerk the dock off, Reverend will be in here to take care of me in a minute. Marvin continues with his perspectives in the article. There's a great glory as he prayed for me, yet I continue to fail. What? So if he can pray for it and you continue to fail, why are we still on this?

It's okay. We're not judging. We listen and we don't judge, right, Joe? Okay. Thank you for the reminder. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. My veins collapsed both Thursday and Friday.

On New Year's Day, my veins collapsed for the third time. I glanced back at the clock on the wall near me, and it was about 10 minutes past 2 o'clock in the afternoon. Grim darkness entered my room. This happened before my veins collapsed. As it spread from the left side of my bed to the right, light began to vanish from the right. I was aware that death and life were waging warfare over my body, and at times a light would gain again this dismissal darkness prevailed. Suddenly, all was black as night.

Like I was at the Carlsbad Cabins of New Mexico when tourists are taken beneath the earth's surface and the lights are cut off momentarily. I felt my spirit leave my body like pulling the stopper out of a thermos bottle. These are his words. Faster and faster, my spirit traveled at approximately a, 45 degree angle. Until ahead of me, I began to see iridescent lights beckoning me into the most beautiful

fucking city I'd ever seen. It was so immense. I cannot verbalize magnitude nor the splendor of that city. All was so overwhelmingly bright. It was like flying into Los Angeles on a smogless night at Christmas time with scintillating lights of every hue or arrayed in breathtaking magnificence. But this was my name. magnified into a brilliance of a million times greater than that, anything this planet could produce.

I saw its gates of pearl, its streets of gold, not simply paved with gold, but a solid yet crystal clear gold, which we also hear. You hear this sort of crystal formation like the Rainbow City. And that's another question. Are you just taking to the Rainbow City? Is that the next life? And you could physically get there? See, he's still got a lot of the same markers for NDEs, but again, filtered through his, uh, perspective. So he's going to see more of a heaven, you know, gold, pearly gates, gold streets,

that kind of thing. But he's, he's looking at it that way, but somebody else might describe it a little differently. Exactly. And this is why I thought this was interesting, because there's similar accounts, but just viewed from a different person's understanding of it. It's, again, somebody on a psychedelic experience, experience, explaining how the wall's breathing, well, both of them are going to describe it the same, even if they experience that. It's just from their, from their perspective. It's interesting. Again, he said, I viewed the walls of Jasper consisting of a heavenly green unlike anything I'd ever seen before. I could see a marble-like vein running through it all.

There were colors that were indescribable and how one can describe a color without comparison to other colors. There is no comparison. Then I saw one resplendent light emanating from the center of the right of God's throne. I recognize it as being Jesus, you know, my Savior. Of course. Mm-hmm. Although I did not view him as a corporeal being, he was welcoming me into his presence,

and I began to worship him. I want to stress the dignity of worship there. There's nothing of the frivolity that we sometimes see in our earthly houses of worship. I cannot express the glory because of its infinite, infinity. And that's the thing, right? He went to a place where he wanted to worship Jesus all day, so therefore he found a golden city.

The streets were paved with gold, just like the book, Say, said, man. And then he goes up. to that. Exactly. He was pulled into that. It wasn't a hell he was taken to. He was expecting to see Jesus, man, and there he went, because he knew also that he had a reverend there praying for him. Well, and I think it's funny that he says it's so huge. You can't even describe it. And Swedenborg said the same thing. He's like, no, that's beyond counting. Like, it's, it's so big because it's just an infinite number of, well, he calls him angels or whatever, you know, the spirits inhabiting heaven are. Yeah, it sounds crowded, but it's, it's so big.

that it doesn't feel crap. It's like sitting in front of the Grand Canyon. It's so fast, like you can't really wrap your mind around it. And that's just right here on Earth, like a plasma strike from Earth. That's crazy. He said, then a strange thing happened. My attention was attracted to the hospital. And I could see my body lying upon the bed.

And a white car was parked near the entrance. And a familiar person entered the building. Wait, so he went from worshipping Jesus in heaven to now he's looking at his body? Yeah, he could see. He could look down and see that his body was. still laying there, but heaven is right there, which again, is sort of this dimensionality thing? Like, where is heaven? Is it really, really, really far off and there's a huge tunnel of light? Or is it just a crack in reality where you just shift and now you're phased into this thing,

but also you're still half in half out, you know, where you could still see yourself so you're present in both realities. It's like being the video game player and the player controlling the controller at the same time, half in half out. Again, exactly what Swedenborg was describing with how you don't, you think about, or your, you know, your phase lock, into this thing at the moment, but then if you think about, oh, your grandma that died, all of a sudden you're also there at the same time. Like, there's no travel. Right. It's instant. And this is the sort of seeing in 362. You can see both sides of it. Janice or one of these foreheaded feasts where you can see all around you.

Something with eyes all around it or whatever. That's what Anita Morjani was describing, too, how she had this 360 degree of perception. And I'm glad we're doing this on the tail end of that Anita Morjani thing because I was thinking about that. This book popped into scale. There it is. And again, it's from the Christian perspective, which we're not knocking on. If you guys are Christians, have it. Like, that's fine. We're also, though, viewing it through a few of our different lenses. So we do kind of rip on that shit because it's weird to us. But you guys have that have at it. You're not weird. Your belief is. But he said, a white car was fart in front of the entrance to a familiar person,

entered the building. Okay. Now, he saw all of this through the streets of gold. And this is what Christians again expect to see. So he's up in heaven seeing it through the streets of which is kind of cool. He said, it was as though the hospital had no roof on it. And before that time, I'd not known the layout of the hospital. As I continued watching, I saw Pastor Wilkerson enter, proceed down the corridor, turn to the intensive care unit, and knock on the door. Ralph picks it up from there with, so the author then, as he's knocking on the door,

he picks up the story, and he says, earlier that day, he'd been in his study preparing for that Sunday sermon, and suddenly he felt directed by the Holy Spirit, of course, to go to La Habreya Community Hospital and pray for Marvin again. He headed straight for the ICU. Did not mean any opposition because he's a big deal. The doctor left orders for a big deal to be let in any time, so it wouldn't have been a thing. The nurse let him into the room.

He walked in to the bed, pulled the curtain around them both, and here's how Martin later described the events that followed. Pastor Wilkison. So as he's walking in and describing that, the pastor, Marvin is describing him walking through and getting let into from heaven. is what he's saying. Oh, wow. They're both describing the same event from each of their perspectives.

Interesting. Yes. So he said, so here's how Marvin later described the events that followed. So Pastor Wilkinson picked up my lift, laughless hand and began to rebuke death in all the authority of name of Jesus Christ, commanded my spirit to return to my body. And what do you think about that, Joe? You're in heaven.

You're doing good. Everything's awesome. No, stop it. Stop it. No, I think it's weird to do that. Like, again, like, death for a Christian is like a joyous thing kind of because it's like this is what we've been working towards and now I can be in heaven. Why are you rebuking death? Let him get.

If it's his time, let him go. He's apparently happy up there. He has a story of another preacher giving this advice in a few chapters later, which I did pull, which we are going to cover on this. Okay. You're absolutely correct on this. he goes off on that as well about two sisters that let their mom live for like 14 years and he's like you got to let people go to jesus we'll we'll cover it but you're absolutely right that's the point is that if they are so pumped to go hang out with jesus there you go now marvin continues there

were three nurses in the room there were two working over my body and the third was down on the telephone and she could not contact a physician as as most of them i suppose were either playing golf or enjoying the rose bowl game on new year's day even the house doctor was on an emergency call and unavailable. I said, Lord, it looks like trouble down there. And I felt to tug earthward. And believe me, the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. That's James 516. I asked Jesus what I should do. And his answer was a question. He said, What do you want to do? That's Jesus. What do you want to do? Of course he's got that accent. He was white. Yeah. I replied that I prefer to stay with him,

that if he would be with me and give me the fulfillment of a ministry that I'd never gained, I would have let it to go back to earth. So he asked Jesus, Super Jesus in heaven, to send him back down and get a ministry that he wasn't able to achieve on his own in life. Okay. What does that sound like to you? Remember when Homeboy went to the crossroads and made the deal to play guitar better? Yeah. There were some conditions with that, weren't there?

And that wasn't it. He knew, though, he was who he was dealing with. to make the deal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, well, plus Jesus is on, you know, on call waiting with other dude who's also asking for him to come back.

So he's like, okay, fine, go back. And he's got to heal the doctor if his fucking sniffles at the same time. Right. There's a lot going on. Multi-pansking. Yes. He said, this may sound like fantasy, but every word of it is true. And after some further dialogue, he gently chiled me for doubting and gave me a command that I

will never be able to discount. He said, was Jesus, son, go back and go with a commission as an officer to join forces with those of my army who will usher in my kingdom age. So Jesus tells you to go back down and that you're going to be an army in his, or you're going to be an officer in his army to usher in his new age. How do you argue with that? How do you argue with it? Well, you just made a deal with something you called Jesus to get a ministry and he said, said yes you can and now his condition is that he is going to now be an officer in his army so it

sounds like sold soul perhaps maybe offered a soul i mean offered it would be the way to go right because satan's got to trick you but people give it to jesus all day long they're throwing it at him dude you know it's a pretty smooth similar doesn't it yeah it's a pretty interesting correlation here remember that they got the third of the power so they they're kicking it now he said i cannot explain all that entailed in that statement i only know that it is what he told me so then you're a christian trying to figure out this cryptic statement from your jesus forever he said with that my spirit returned to my body it felt cold i was later informed that this was due to shock and i smiled at one of the nurses and as she plugged in the

cord to the monitor immediately i heard the familiar beep again and when i thought about looking at the clock it was ten minutes to three i had been with jesus for at least a half a half hour that Ralph notices that he had an immediate response from Marvin upon rebuking death, that he only smiled at the nurse and said, oh, thank you, pastor, thank you for coming. All could see that he was having any spiritual experience, though no one knew what it was. And Marvin brings it home by saying, for several days, glory of God, flooded my hospital room, and my physical eyes could not behold such radiance, and I kept them covered as much as possible with my hands.

Wherever I looked up, down, left, right, Jesus was there, man. The doctor said I was clinically dead. He wept and later told me that they knew they had lost me. Even if I could have been brought back by some miracle devices, I should have been a human vegetable, for the brain can only survive more than three or four minutes without oxygen without remaining undamaged. Thank you, Jesus.

Miracle healings. There you go. Okay, well, we've already talked about that you are not afraid of death. There are some fascinating studies that are going on in school right now that he pulls up. And I will just ask you one question for this because I thought some of the questions in this were great. So let's go over those and then we'll get to the other thing. So suppose you could know, Joe, the exact time and mode of your death, would you want to know the truth? I think maybe I used to, but now, no.

I want to be surprised. Is there a reason for that? No. I just, I don't know. I mean, I guess since I know it's not really possible, I would say, no, I don't want to know. But if somebody walked up and had a sealed envelope and was like, here's the date, time, and mode, maybe I'd be like, I'll just take a peek. Wait, this is a crack at something deeper. What makes you think that knowing your own death is not possible?

Do you feel that way, really? I mean, maybe it is possible. I'm not aware of any way to figure that out. Okay. Can we just say that that we're not aware yet? And that maybe you could know, but that neither one of us fucking want to, all right? Neither one of us. That's the thing is I don't want to either.

I think that would just, knowing it would just give you a whole different, it might make you live your life different, especially if you, it's like, oh, it's three weeks from now. But it also might give you just insane anxiety that you wouldn't have if you didn't know. So maybe that's why I don't want to. Exactly. And this is the thing. If you die by a ladder, do you ever get around another ladder again, you know? That's the thing is, I'd just like you. I'd pass now.

No, thank you. Knowing how I die is not part of how I want to live. How about that? Right. There you go. Beautifully put. Calm out. Now, Ralph Wilkerson, Reverend Ralph Wilkerson in this book right here, he writes that death is a solo performance, and he reminds us that dying your death is the one thing that no one else can do for you. Understandably grief and disappointments around death, but the great reverend says that when the subject is treated biblically, that it takes on a different perspective altogether. Offering some great questions, though, in this. And this is why I want to pull it and talk to you about this okay so do those in heaven see what's going on down here the old

did your grandma watch you masturbate i think i mean i guess maybe if they wanted to maybe they could you know like because of the like we were talking about with the you think about it so you're there like maybe a grandma in heaven is thinking about her grandkid and she just like is there instantly looking at it which is creepy as shit but i mean if that's how it is then okay but uh i don't know it depends on your religion and everything too. Are you allowed to see what's going on on earth? Or when you're in heaven,

do you give a shit? Because it's like, oh no, this is so much better. I don't care what's going on down on earth anymore. Yeah, like watching childhood movies of yourself. Like, do you give a shit? It plays no relevance now.

Yeah, it was fun and cute. And oh, it's cute to be nostalgic about it. But yeah, like you said, who gives her shit? Yeah. I don't know. We've got other things going on. Interesting. And yes, and I've thought about this a lot,

is the what can perceive what because then it's what it makes me feel is that there's sort of this anode cathode relationship that goes on to physicality and spirituality to where once you leave a physical body you sort of get this decompression spiritual time where you're in a spirit you're just flowing around you're doing your thing you're part of that world and inevitably you get to the learning capacity of what that can offer you at that state and then you incarnate into a physical vessel again somewhere maybe maybe here maybe somewhere else but then you live as a physical, you're bogged down your way, do you feel that? And then you, so each is constantly looking at the other, like a yin-young, right? Yeah. Each looks at the other constantly, and in each other,

there's a spot of the other. So there's a spiritual component to our world that some feel that they can connect to and others can't because it's not pervasive. It's not everywhere, because it's not the main part of this physical world. You know you're a spirit later, it's there and hint. But so, too, I would think in the spirit world, you'd get a hint of physicality to sort of, you're Ping is something greater or something different is offered in experience as well, maybe. Yeah. Well, I mean, in Swedenborg said that you're fully, not a human, but you're a person when you're in this heaven or whatever state, the afterlife. And the only thing missing is your physical body.

So he says that everything else stays exactly the same. You have your memories, your personality, your drives, everything. You just don't have your body anymore. So. So interesting, man. And what would that be like? And now you and I are curious about it, aren't we? I know.

A morbid curiosity in what happens. I'm morbid curiosity. But what's fascinating about that is I think it's, like you said, I'm not scared of death. It's just, I'd like to make sure I get all the things I'd like to get done here done before we move on and coiff out of this bitch, you know? Yeah. And then you think, I mean, is it destiny or fate or whatever? Like, are you going to always get done however much you got done here anyway?

I mean, kind of. because even if you go, oh, no, I'm going to do more and you go start something new, that was always going to happen because you did it. You did it, therefore it was always going to happen. Inevitability. Yes, I love inevitability. I like that. Like when you stub your toe, you're like, shit, if I just wouldn't have.

No, there's no just, you wouldn't have. There's no parallel you, it's, you did it because it happened. And I just noticed that your shirt reads Ralph, which is the title of the author. I was going to show you that. So it actually says Ralph 316. Shut the fuck up. It's a, it's a joke from, uh, the audio drama we were working on the mysteries of Durland County. Shout out Brandon over there, too.

Shout out, Brandon. Great name. You know, I just saw the little on top of it, and I put together that the bottom half of those letters probably spell Ralph. As you're moving around over there, I did not see the 316. That's hilarious, dude. Very apropos for this episode. Ralph 316. Welcome. Okay, so, oh, all right, and here's another question from the work, will I know my loved ones when I'm there? Okay, and this is something Swedenborg covered and I liked, I liked his approach on it. But then, okay, you think about it and all the earthly relationships you had, such as a husband, wife, parents, children, all of that, do they extend beyond? And so therefore, like, yes, you recognize them, but what if they sucked? And it was a great way to get away from them. Do you have to, like, kick it around with these dickheads forever?

You know what I mean? According to Swedenborg, no, that if you don't, if your essences don't mesh well, Like you're, I mean, he talks about the masks coming off. And so, yes, like, say it's my parents or whatever up there. If our drives or, you know, what we want don't mesh, then we wouldn't, we'd naturally gravitate away from them. And it wouldn't be sad because there's no facades up there. So, right. It's not a sad thing.

Like, it's just you don't, you're like oil and water. You just don't mix. So it's like, okay, I'm going over here now. Hang out with my oil buddies. Like, man, we just don't, we don't hang. That's okay. You taught me a lot in those in that lifetime, and now let's just move on. That's interesting.

And that was the thing. Okay. All right. Now, here's a great question. Will a baby remain an infant in heaven? Again, because I just covered it, I think his take on that was that an infant continues to grow and learn just like they would here in heaven. but kind of like you can because it's your spiritual essence and not a physical body, it's kind of different, you know, so it's like maybe it's not a small person.

Maybe it's an old soul and it looks like a fully grown person, but it was only six months old when it died. Oh. Like Benjamin Button of the Spirit. Yeah, yeah. So it's like a fully grown, so they age and mature, they get a full lifetime's worth of soul growth in the amount of physical time that they're here, even if they only live for like three weeks. Yeah, it should be something like that. Damn, that's amazing. But it's also because since time doesn't, you know, you're outside of time in this astral spiritual plane, it would, I don't even know how you describe that to humans because it's like, yes, he was six months old when his meat sack died, but there's no time in this other place.

So he's already, uh, grown or he's already, you know, learned everything he wanted, he would have learned on earth in no time because there's no time. You know what I like about this? It sounds like you're playing an album all the way through from a band, and you get to a song you don't particularly like, so you skip it. Yeah, yeah, kind of like that. Maybe that's when infant death is. They're like, man, we took a look at Earth and we're just like, nah, not our vibe.

And then they skip it. But they played a role here. And then that's interesting, too, for the folks that say that whenever they move on, they could recognize a child that had died, right, in NDE cases, but they weren't a baby. It was like a physical grown-ass man that was going to be their son, but it just wasn't. But they knew that that's what their son was going to look like.

but you never saw it. It never grew into that being. It never assumed that physical form. This shit trips me out, man. Okay. So another one is, will the Eternal City be large enough for everyone who's going there?

What kind of cannabis and music do they have? And this Swedenborg does touch on, right? That it's an infinite number. Like the space is so incalculable that we're limited by our ability to think of space because of the space around us now. It's just infinite overlapping communities,

basically, based on your personal drives and views on things really. And yeah, it just goes on endlessly because, I mean, how many people have died in the history of humans? And I wonder, because you say that it's more aligned, it's like, well, we're here and it's more aligned, but there's a shitload of things that aren't that aligned

for us here. There are things that are, but there's also an enormous amount of things that are not. There's a lot of what I would call resistance here, right? So it's not walls lighting up with light, God's power kind of shit. So what's that about? Do you think that as you go through,

you get less and less resistance is sort of the thing. And that learning only occurs with resistance. So you kind of choose it every now and then, like a lava lamp. I think that's kind of his, yeah, his idea on the purpose of the human existence is to kind of meet with all these resistances and things that, you know, motivate you or influence you so that you have kind of a head start in this eternal afterlife so that you can kind of weigh the options, basically. it's like a school, like a earth school.

You go through and you face different things and that shapes what drives you and motivates you so that when you pass on, you'll already be in the state that you were drawn to. That's what I took from it. Absolutely. And that state, though, would not include retirement. You know, it's not going to be us sitting on a beach somewhere playing a harp, sitting down doing nothing. We're probably going to want us to learn, grow, experience all that. He says people still work and learn and there's like structures of not. what we would know is government, but there's still like structures and hierarchies and all this type of, yeah, it's, it just seems like it just keeps going. So we have that to look forward to.

Damn. And then this is the thing, how long will we stay in heaven and what will we do there? I mean, according to him, it doesn't end. But I don't know if we touched on it, but his thoughts on reincarnation. Did I bring that up? A little bit. Yep. Yeah, is that he doesn't think you physically reincarnate and that he, you basically just kind of keep moving. moving through the levels in the afterlife. And maybe there's something after that that we can't know until we're there. Yeah. You know, a 58th dimension or something. Who knows?

But yeah, he thinks that the reincarnation thing, like when people have memories of past lives, he thinks it's kind of like a, he didn't say this because it was 1700s, but like a morphic field type of idea where you're kind of brushing against somebody else's incarnation or spirit or life or whatever and that you're kind of getting there. memories from their life, not one of your own past lives. God. That could be confusing, huh? Yeah, a little bit.

And of course, exactly, where is heaven in the universe, which we've talked about? We don't know. It could be just kind of a dimension phase shift over. Just half a degree to the left. Exactly. Okay, we're going to touch on this, not go as deeply as I'd like. We're going to cut a bunch of this out. But should Karen be allowed to die?

And this is talking about this, Karen and Quinlan. and in April of 1975, she went to sleep in her suburban New Jersey home and never woke up. At age 23, she suffered a lethal combination of barbiturates and alcohol, and Karen Ann did not resemble her former self physically. Her body had gradually assumed a fetal position, said to be a chronic vegetative state with no hope of recovery. She had shriveled to a mere 60 pounds, half of her formerly robust 120 pounds self, nothing remained of Karen Quinlan but a minimal degree of brain activity

and biological functions. And for about a year, the young woman lay in the intensive care unit of the Morristown County Hospital with two tubes in her neck, one feeding the other helping to breathe. While legal, Ralph points out that medical and moral experts

and family had a battle over her fate. Karen's adopted parents, who gave up all hope of her recovery, wanted to pull the plug on her respirator and let her die in dignity, saying, let us allow Karen to return to the natural state so that we can place her body in the tender love and hands of the Lord.

Joseph Quinlan begged the courts, and as he said, it is the Lord's will that she be allowed to die. And what about that, Joe? God wants his kids home and just, I don't think he'd keep him in a vegetative state, you know? Sounds like he was really trying to pull her out of there, not keep her on earth.

Now, their plea found sympathetic hearts around the world, even inspiring soul-searching poetry that I'll read for you now. Oh, great. They hold me here between two worlds. The flesh leaves my hollow bones. Even my breath does not belong to me. I curl into a shape which I remember from another time. But here, my mother does not nourish me,

and I'm not sheltered in that secret room. mother my eyes open and closed but they look on another place where something waits for me why won't they let me go that's by caro porter about karen's situation there now finally in a landmark decision march 31st nineteen seventy six the new jersey state supreme court gave joseph quillan the power to remove his adopted granddaughter's life support system just yank it out of there buddy get some good for him just do some calisthenics before warm up don't pull anything except that cord my right how many years did you say it was like 14 years or something it was about a year uh that she was on my spot um the other thing's 14 we'll talk about it a minute but it was about a year

but the question is is was it right for him to pull the plug the raven ralph of course says yes if god wants a person to live he can override the machines as he is done in the quinlan case now doesn't this work both ways couldn't god choose to keep someone alive in a vegetative state for whatever damn reason he wants if we're outsourcing it to that entity. Do you see how it works? Yeah. That it's got a, it's the praise and the glory, but you only offer it, well, mysterious ways and he could have easily and, but he didn't. But he kept this woman in a vegetative state, which we've talked about time dilation. What kind of existence is she living in there as you're keeping her tethered to this physical vessel and won't let her go?

I mean, she very well could be completely out of body that. whole time and just getting around in the astral plane and not even know, you know, like, or like living a different life, like that coma patient we brought up a couple months ago, like maybe she's in a different dimension living a life. She just kind of kept going. But that's the weird thing, is it sort of a side quest. Is it just a, oh, this will keep you busy because you're not conscious. We need you to stay active, blah, blah, blah. So this will keep you busy. It's got nothing to do with your real life, okay? And you're going to need to forget this all. I know it's going to be much. You're going to need to forget this all when you wake up or die. Because then if you die in a

coma, do you continue in that life that you were already living, or do you switch over to the heaven you should have gone to anyway? Good question. A lot of these potato people that are kept on life support, like you don't ever get to see what their experience was, you know, because they end up pulling the plug. And it's like, oh, shit, could have been a good case study. Yeah. Exactly. And that's the thing, too, they're keeping so many more people alive these days. That's why it's been such an amazing amount of indie cases and all that kind of stuff. So we are not going to go over

the moral questions of right to die, all that kind of stuff. We were going to skip down to this preacher. God, I've pulled a ton of shit for this guys. I mean, it's cool. If you can get a hold of the book, there's tons of stuff in there. And again, we're going to kick this over into other things. I'm not even going to come back to this at all for Tuesday's

show. Tuesday, we're going to go through some crazy shit, dude. I can only describe it as crazy shit. That's it. So check the links below, sign up. It's going to be amazing and check the extension, which we'll touch in on before we cut. Okay. So when Dr. James Pippin, formerly a pastor of one of the largest disciples of Christian churches in the nation, he spoke at Medleyland, okay? And he told about these two sisters that kept their mother alive for 14 years.

Now, this is the pastor, and I will quote him now perfectly. I want to talk to you for just a few minutes about eternal thinking. we don't live like we believe we don't come to crisis like we believe we pray it we talk it we ride it we marquis it we facade it but we don't live it mama got sick and mama got bedridden and mama got two daughters and this little old mama was a member of a church of my church and a precious little old lady she was at 82 and active until she was struck down in bed and you know what happened the daughters both had good jobs. They said, well, one of us has got to quit work.

And one said, well, you make more money than I do. So you work and I'll quit and all stay home and take care of Mother. So she stayed home. And day in, day out, she's spoon-fed Mother. And she rubbed Mother and she shampooed Mother's hair. And she made up Mother's face and she dressed and bathed Mother. And she changed her sheets, day in and day out. And she would not let Mother die.

And she'd come to church and I'd say, well, how's Mother? and she'd say, oh, just fine, she's going to live a long time. And they nurse mother and nurse mother and nurse mother, 88, 89, 92, 94, 96. And they finally gave up on her and let her go to glory. What a pity. She was bedfast. 14 years earlier, she could have gone to the Lord,

but they wanted to keep her away from there. The last place we want Mother to go is to the Lord, so I'm going to stay here, and I'm going to nurse Mother, and she's going to stay with us forever and ever. And if that sister didn't die two years later, though she worked herself to death for mother, she never got a decent night's sleep. Mother just slept like a baby. But she was up and down, up and out, up and down all night looking to see if mother was still breathing.

My Lord, have mercy. Let the people go to God. Let them go. If I were dying out and saying, don't put anything on me, don't put an automatic breather on me, let me go to glory, turn me loose, let me go. And that's God talk. Anybody who's been beyond doesn't want to come back. Yet, when you come to see in the pastor after the doctor has told you,

oh, oh, I only have a few weeks to live, it's, oh, boo-hoo, who, pastor, somebody pray for me, I'm going to die. But of course you're going to die. What's so bad about dying? What's so wrong about that? So let's get to think about living forever, but not in the flesh. Let's get the living. Let's let the flesh go, and then we will be free. Christian psychiatrists tell us.

that the fear of death spawns every other fear. And then if you could get over it and get into God's thinking about death, you'd be free. And that death your spirit is free. When one spirit goes to God, it certainly does not come back unless it wants to extend a person's life. And I repeat, the Bible says, there is an appointed time to die, and that everything hinges on finding out what that appointment is. Now, what about the people that have come back from the debt? God's hour for them is not yet come.

And it takes a Holy Spirit to know the will. God relative to one's death date. That's it. So you've got two conflicting preachers here. One, bringing Yankin one back from the dead who wrote the book and then one printing about a preacher who came and spoke to his church about letting people die. Do you see the conflict of interest in any of this shit? Yeah. And there's also, I can't remember which denomination it is, but that don't believe in medicine or, like, medical intervention of any kind.

The Amish? So is that who maybe? I would think. I would think the Amish should be like, get to fuck out of my hoose. Yeah. So, and is that, I mean, is that moral then too? Like your kid, you know, I don't know, gets its arm cut off and you don't do anything about it. Just let it bleed out because that was his time.

I mean. Is morality a crapshoot? You know, I mean, and that's the thing. Sometimes. Right. Is some of it put on you to say that you experience shame and to limit yourself, perhaps? is a good question to ask. I found these perspectives fascinating.

And we're going to continue with some really weird shit on Tuesday's Plus show. So stay tuned for that. We're on a new season of Plus. It's already been kicked off with a bang. Thank you so much. It was a banger episode. I was talking to Mary about it earlier today, just going off on the concepts and how it's far more freeing than all this other nonsense being passed around. Now, rather, that's the ultimate anything.

Who knows? But for right now, it's a pretty nice, temporary truth to hang out on. Well, and just to cap off the fear of death thing, I think my thought on it a couple years ago is telling my wife is that there's no reason to be afraid of the only sure thing that every human that's come before us has experienced. They've, every single one of them. So it's going to happen, get over it, and, you know, live your life. I heard this thing also that it's not the fear of the unknown that's scary. It's fear of leaving the known. Yeah.

And that's true of a shitload of things. It's like leaving addiction, leaving a toxic relationship, but you know, anything, right? So Earth could be a toxic relationship for your soul. And if you reincarnate here or choose to stay or whatever, prolong it, all that, you get the opportunity to go to heaven, you get yanked back, all that kind of stuff, then I don't know. Yeah. Pretty wild, man. It was an interesting topic. But why?

But why, Joe, but what? To pull the evangelical. So Beyond and Back, the one copy I could find is going to be located down in the show description. This is by Riven, Ralph Wilkinson. And it's got a sweet intro here, Pat Robertson and Walter Martin. So please, sir, again, for the plus extension. And then we will kick it off for that for the plus members here. Yes, sir.

We're going to be going into the Secret of Light by Walter Russell. And basically everything is light. And that's it. But he goes into a lot of different things. He thinks that civilizations come in cycles. This kind of enormous, you know, long waves in a, He puts that cycle about 3,000 years, and he says we're coming up on the next one, and this was in the 40s. So it kind of lines up with the Caliuga idea, too.

Yeah. A lot of other, you know, cyclic thinking, 2030, all that stuff. And how old is the oldest country that was ever around? I think it was less than 250 years, and we just celebrated our 250-year anniversary as a country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's somewhere around, like, that really countries have a tough time struggling or existing past that date. Yeah, I've heard different ideas on that, the empire idea, yeah, that they, about 250 years is the max and then they start to decline. But people have debated that, so.

We've had a run. I'm not even going to say it was a good run. I'll just say it was a run. How about that? And it produced us, and most of you find folks hanging out and listening with us now. So we thank you. And again, thank you guys so much for hanging out and listening to us for this new season of Mysterious Universe here. Very excited about it.

Check the links down in the show description. The Plus membership, guys, gives you a. higher bit rate feed. I don't know if you knew that. 320 kilobits over this 160 business that you get in the free free business there. So check that out. Always a higher bit quality feed there for you. So that

goes with the extra stuff as well. You can check the links down in the show description for that and we are excited to get to it. So without any further ado, thank you all so much. We're going to get to this extension for everybody else. We'll see you next week. Welcome back to your plus extension here for the first episode

of this season.