Mysterious Universe - 36.04 - MU Podcast - Contact Protocol: Janice Leslie's UFO Odyssey

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

Welcome back to MU! After the death of her husband, Janice Leslie enrolls in psychic Ted Owens' unusual psychic training and soon begins documenting a series of increasingly bizarre encounters involving mysterious lights, silent aerial objects, telepathic impressions, and multiple eyewitnesses. Cases like these suggest there's something more going on than simple nuts & bolts craft. Welcome to your Plus+ Extension, and thank you all for joining us on Plus+! Today we continue our epic saga with part 03 of … Visitors From Within by Lyssa Royal and Keith Priest, offering us some selections the visitors have had by interacting with us. As another character, Harone whips his energy out on the scene to set the record straight about a few things before we discover their views on sexuality, emotions, and individualistic motivations that a hive mind struggles to innerstand. Beyond Reality: The Role Unseen Dimensions Play in Our Lives Visitors From Within by Lyssa Royal & Keith Priest LinksPlus+ ExtensionThe extension of the show is EXCLUSIVE to Plus+ Members. To join. click HERE.Links Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Summer heats up in FX's The Shards. Set in 80s, Los Angeles, the Shards follows a group of beautiful, privileged prep school students who are preyed on by The Trawler, a serial killer targeting teenagers across the city. This fever dream of youth, beauty, sex, and mystery is a must see. FX's The Shards, streaming August 5th on Hulu on Disney Plus. Sign up now at Disneyplus.com.

36 episode four trucking right along in this new season and if you haven't checked out plus yet you probably should links are in the description of course you get ad free high bit rate feed plus all the extra cool stuff we do over there just as a you know if you're listening on youtube obviously you have no ads either but that's because we're nice and didn't put them in there yet uh but yeah i am joe hodgden joining me is brandon thomas of course uh how's your way going dude amazing absolutely incredible i heard lot of of new cool things going on. Fresh air, summer in the air, you know, just everybody healthy and happy and just moving forward, just positive forward momentum. That's all I can say, buddy. And that's all, you know, anyone can really ask for, harmonious, positive forward momentum. And that's what we're rocking. Mercury retrograde ended last week.

Vamos, see you. Yeah. So we're out of that for now. And it is. It's a notable difference, you know, all the little memes and stuff that are silly and funny. It's notable. It's just very interesting.

Communication, travel, all that kind of stuff. So a mindful approach to that season, never heard anybody. Yeah. Yeah. But we are done and out of it now. So let's keep moving, you know. Yeah. Let's go.

Yes. Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about a little guy named D. Scott Rogo. And that's a favorite, you know, of Ben and Aaron's over the years. And I'm pretty sure this copy of the book I have right here is an Aaron because there's endless highlighting and tab. and everything. But luckily, that actually helps me because now I know which parts of it he's covered and which parts he hasn't. Yes.

I found a book the other day. I'm not going to tell you about it yet because we're still on our visitors from within. That's what we're going to continue in the extension. But, dude, I found one the other day and I saw that they had marked, got to be Aaron, had marked a couple of these chapters. And so I went to ones that he hadn't found some bangers. So we're going to do that. Like you said, it's a nice thing to say, like, yes, we're going to cover the word. But something else outside of the word is he can't just cover all of it.

So of course, we get to come back through and pick it up. It's like they marked, you know, what they covered for us. It's really cool. Yeah. And it's nice, though, too, because this book, it's Beyond Reality 1990 was written. It starts out with dematerialization, random dematerialization. And I actually started making a whole, you know, set of notes for that part of it. But they were just really short kind of boring stories.

Like, I left McKee's somewhere and then they weren't there. Like, okay. Oh, all right. But he covers a ton of stuff in here. All the strange stuff. And today we're going to be talking about the UFO Odyssey of Janice Leslie. Janice, let's have it. It's a, she had a lot of, a lot of weird experiences that we're going to get into.

But I'm leaning towards this, it's not a new idea at all, but that it's some kind, it's related to your psyche somehow. Like, it's not these little green men in physical ships that are. zipping around the galaxy. And this story just kind of confirms that angle on it. Not hard to set on it, but it makes a lot of sense. But what do you have coming up in a plot? And a brilliant segue. I'm just sitting here smiling because mine has to do also at early 90s book, 92.

So we both picked early 90s periods books to do this on. Continuing here with this is going to be part three of our visitors from within with Lisa Royal Keith Priest. It's an amazing saga that we're going through here on getting into the psyche of the extraterresticles and what that's like. And then also looking at yourself, there's a lot of step down levels to our minds and we may not be operating 100% on the one that we think we are, but they're receiving what we want on all of those levels of ourselves,

rather we're aware of it or not. This is the psyche part of it. We're going to get into some Zeta Ritikuli revelations from a dude named Harron, who's going to channel through Lisa, and we're going to get some deep insight into a bit more of their psyche, my friend, so that we can do our best. dig down for that empathy and at least context, if nothing else. So yes, sign up in the links below, guys.

Always a higher bitrate feed, which just sounds better, Joe. So, yeah, let's get into this UFO Odyssey. Again, this is DeScott Rogos Beyond Reality 1990. Pretty popular book from what I can tell. It's all over the place. We'll link to a copy of it in the show notes, of course. But this particular story, again, this is a collection of just high strangeness of all types. psychic phenomenon, again, the dematerialization part at the beginning of the book.

But this particular one starts in 1978. Here we go again with the 70s stories. And Rogo hears about this lady named Janice and her strange chain of experiences that she'd been having out of Washington State. And, of course, by 1978, Rogo's already been kind of digging around the UFO lore and especially the ones that didn't really fit into the nuts and bolts angle. He was looking at more of the, you know, psychological part of it. And he'd been looking into all these people who reported these close encounters,

and then either before or after also had these kind of psychic episodes or really like classic poltergeist-y type of things or strange dreams, missing time, all the classic things. And it all happened around the same time as their, UFO experiences. Classic. Yeah. So, for example, like some people would see a UFO and then shortly afterward, their house would, you know, just erupt into this weird activity.

The classic stuff, objects moving, lights flickering, strange noises. And, uh, but then in other cases, the psychic stuff happened first and then they saw a UFO. And so he starts, Robo starts going, hmm, I'm going to start taking this a little more seriously because what if at least some of these UFO encounters were connected to the human mind? And, you know, maybe witnesses weren't just watching something external arrive from somewhere else. Maybe their consciousness itself was either producing it or shaping it or, you know, maybe drawing it out. And again, even back then, that idea wasn't exactly new. I mean, Carl Young and a couple others had already kind of alluded to that UFOs might operate at least partly as psychic symbols.

Yep. And notably during these periods of tension in somebody's life, or like we talked about before, with the pubescent phase for some reason because of the raging hormones and the kids that just seems to elicit these experiences for whatever reason. But Rogo himself, he wasn't actually interested in the philosophical speculation about it. It was like the actual cases where the witnesses, he was looking for like some measurable psychic ability. He's very scientific, you know. Yes. And he had already been, you know, involved in the UFO investigations by this point. And this is before it kind of exploded into the mainstream, at least the main mainstream.

There's plenty of people looking into this back then. Right. And so first he thought a lot of these abductees might just be people who like blacked out. because they got a fright or, you know, maybe under hypnosis, just elaborated this crazy story because your brain comes up with this stuff. Sure. But after he worked with and personally worked with a few of these witnesses, and he found this kind of pattern that kept emerging.

And even when he tried to lead them a little bit, he was kind of, he's like, okay, no, there's something, there's something more going on here. and he was at the same time he's looking into this he he started becoming really like kind of uneasy with the standard ET explanations because a lot of these stories they had these details that were really symbolic or dreamlike or you know this this archetypical element to them and he's like that's why would that have anything to do with dudes getting around in the galaxy like that's there's something odd about that that it it does look like it's pointing more towards your mind than the galaxy. And in these straight up abductee cases that some folks have talked that I've talked about personal firsthand accounts, Ronnie and Philip Kinsella, Ronnie talked about that the Cheshire cat came through after, okay, they take him on this crazy journey, right? He's one that floated up through the ceiling, came back, landed on the bed, felt himself,

sort of spring back either into his body or on the bed, whatever you want to say. And then thing leaves, it's like, what the hell was that? And then Cheshire cat pops through the ceiling, grins at him, and then, pops out. What is that? These bizarre little like signatures to the phenomena. Another one was Denise Stoner. She told me that she was watching Casper and thinking a lot about Casper the Ghosts in her room one evening before her contact experience. Casper the Ghost is what showed up. She looks outside. There's a UFO. It's this kind of shit. Like what is that? It's definitely playing on something that you're immediately interested in or scared of or both, right? It's very interesting.

And as we're going to talk about in the extension, Zeta's job is to get you over fear. That's their, that's the whole goal of this realm and their role in the realm. So they are facilitators of fear. And so your job is then to get over it by encountering it. And it does so through your psyche. But we're going to talk more about that in the extension. Oh, so they're doing kind of an exposure therapy angle. Exactly right. Exactly right. And this is why it's so subjective, why it's so tailored. Again, why Ronnie had this chest shark hack because it was terrifying to him? Like, why is so specific and random. Same with the Casper the ghost. What's on folks's immediate mind. And this may be why they encounter them as angels or demons if they're highly religious and feel that that's what

they should be encountering them as also the screen memories could be this you know oh it was a deer so they replace it with something again to this whole idea it's just all psychology man right and that goes back to what we started out when we started doing the show i i put it out there that i'm like i think a lot of this phenomena is the same has the same source and it just shows up in different ways to different people again based on your psychology like you said Maybe a Christian would see it as a demon because what is the most scary thing to a Christian? It's the enemy. It's that polar opposite of God.

So that's going to be the most scary thing to a Christian is a demon or satan, you know? Satan. And what's the most scary thing to Christian too is getting pulled back from Jesus? So maybe that even in itself, the near death experience is a fear facilitating action because people come back changed, man. And this is, well, poltergeist starts shows up. It scares you at first and then they just get over it. and then they move on. Now they're not as scared.

It's like it's a haunted house, but all you've got to do is just laugh at the thing and it moves on. Yeah, that's what our boy Sammy T. Over a tinfoil hat calls it. He says, this world is a haunted house. Yes. Sam, the wife and I, because we used to call it that because of Sam, but we've changed it to fun house, actually. And I think that that's more accurate when you really start engaging with whatever this thing is, because it does stare back, but it stares back at the level of which you're ready to greet.

it. And further along in our saga, actually, there's a perspective of the adduction phenomena that you can make it stop all together if that's something you're interested. And there's a specific phrase spoken and a specific command that you give it under, but it all has to do with your disposition. Yeah. And we just talked about why we're unabductible. It's because we don't want to be. And I'm not, even though we look into these topics, I'm not looking into it because I want to experience it. I just want to figure it out or at least get an understanding of what it is. I don't have any interest in being. involved in it though. So stay the fuck away from me. Outside perspective, we've stated it and that's again, what we're going to go into is that that's kind of what the deal is. You set that tone. You train people how to treat you, is what I will say, and that is scalable. Yeah. So this initial interest he had in this non-nuts and bolts angle of the UFO thing led him to meeting with Jeffrey Mishlov. Another name you might find familiar. At the time, Jeffrey was working on a doctorate and parapsychologist. down at UC Berkeley.

And during these conversations he had with Mishlev, Mishlove mentioned there was this woman he knew in Washington State who said she'd been trained by a psychic to make contact with UFOs. And Rogo's like, okay, so she can predict when and where strange lights appear or even summon them. Another reason I brought the story in is because of the Chris Bledso thing. It sounds very Bledsoe with his being able to call them in or also, Dr. Stephen Greer, which is this is way before the Greer era, but it's the same type of thing. It is, yeah, the summoning of the entities. And a lot of folks were doing this too with green lasers.

Remember that? They were taking lasers and shining it up and they were like, look, guys, I'm playing with it. I don't think it's a good idea, buddy. I don't know. No, no, no. I don't think so. And it just builds on that idea that you can create it with your mind. And we'll get into her particular.

trainer her psychic trainer here but okay uh but at first it sounded pretty weird to rogo but it also reminded him of another case he had studied over in massachusetts the stella lansing and she seemed to have these bizarre lights and photographic anomalies that would just materialize around her so he writes to janis and he's like oh my god you're perfect for you're the perfect kind of witness an investigator could hope for she had a detailed diary names, dates, locations, all these things, and, like, signed statements from several people who had been with her during these sightings. And by 1978, she had already given a lot of these documents she had been compiling to Jeffrey Mishlov. And Rogo says that those papers are what convinced him that she's like, okay, we got to take this case seriously.

Whatever the explanation is, we need to get to the bottom of it. Somebody's gay here. We're going to figure out who. so of course her whole this whole thing that her whole UFO odyssey as rogo calls it started guess what during a real rough transitional period in her life this the this type of liminal uh almost surreal thing because her husband died and that's good that's enough to you know knock you off kilter pattern interruption to the max right yeah and about a month after it died she's like you know what i need a vacation i need just get the hell out of here i'm gonna go up to

portland oregon stay in a hotel up there and just kind of deal with it by myself this isn't 78 before portland is the the dump it is now no offense portland but if you've driven through your city you get it and it used to be really fucking nice man so just saying it's unabashedly and uh openly weird it's unfortunate yeah i don't mind weird austin used to be weird same thing austin you hear me yeah Yeah. So one morning she's having breakfast and she's reading a newspaper because that's what people did back then, you know. And she sees this ad by a man named Ted Owens and he's self-described as a psychic and a UFO contactee. And a snappy dresser.

Oh, of course. He offered services like psychic greetings, personal development, training programs is basically a woo-woo life coach back before that was even a thing. Pioneer. Pioneer. But he called these what we would now call NHIs, right, non-human intelligences. He called them S-Is or space intelligences. And he claimed he had an ongoing relationship with them. So, hmm.

Okay. All right. Into it. So before she, and Janice said she'd never actually even visited a psychic before. But there's something about this ad that just called to her. And so she contacts Owens and he lived in Van Gogh. Kuver Washington at the time. And it's just over the state line from Portland.

How convenient. Yeah. That's where she's staying right now. How serendipitous. Yeah. And I mean, dude had a wife and kids and it's funny because Janice actually didn't even like him on a personal level.

Kind of an odd duck. Oh, but can I go ahead and make a prediction? Did they get together? Did they end of smash him and get married? Not noted, but I wouldn't put it off the table. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, I don't think she wanted to admit to that.

And that's noted. They're like, well, I'm fundamentally ugly. Why would you note that? Obviously, there's some psyche going on there. Ew. Yeah, ew. I mean, it's penises. It tastes it.

Other than that. Peanut. But, yeah, even though she didn't really, she says at least, she didn't really like him. She's like, oh, I'm going to enroll in your UFO contact training anyway. Uh-huh. That's what you do on a whim. Right. And this is where Rogo kind of steps back.

He's like, okay, Ted Owens was already kind of a weird dude way before Janice came into the picture. He'd been born in Indiana in 1920, and he was in the Navy, he served in the Second World War. And he said he had experienced psychic events since childhood. And at some point in his life, he contacted a Dr. J.B. Rhine, R.H. I didn't know who this guy was. I had to look him up, but he's a Duke University researcher that did experiments with ESP. and psychokinesis and things like that. Oh, okay. But Dr. Ryan was apparently pretty impressed by Owen's letters and invited him over to Duke.

And Owens helped him with some, like, you know, admin secretarial stuff. And Rogo says that this is when Owens began seriously experimenting with what he believed were his own PKK abilities. And Ryan actually never tested him, like, formally or worked with him as an experimental thing. I don't know, so I don't get why he invited him over there. He was interested in his abilities but never, like, did tests on it. I don't get it. He was a top man in the field. Top men.

Top men. But Owens himself, he didn't start getting real heavily involved with the UFOs until the 60s. And this is years after he had left Duke and got back home to care for a sick relative or something. So early 1965, he was down in Fort Worth, Texas. Shout out. And one day he's just. getting along driving through the countryside and his daughter with his daughter and they see this weird thing sitting out in the field near the road and Ted here he says it it was a device

odd description but he says it was a device that was giving off vivid red blue green and white lights huh and so they just kind of pull over and they're just watching it approach their car and then it just goes and just vanishes and he says it was like somebody had just turned the light switch off just dematerialized or did it shrink really small? Ooh, it may have shrink really small, dude. But the dematerialization on something solid that was emitting lights, interesting, because both light and object disappeared. So even reflection of light, anything like that,

all the things that were illuminated around the air, it's very noticeable. Very interesting, man. Well, and Janus gets into a little bit of the weird effect these lights have on the surrounding area, too, in a little bit here. Okay. But then later that same night, Ted gets back home and he said he starts getting what he interpreted as inner messages from UFO intelligences. So I thought this also dovetailed with your saga that you're doing.

Yeah, the channeling, sure. But these messages that he was supposedly getting told him that beings were responsible for his psychic abilities. And who knows whether that's true or not. But think about that. Like what if something inside of you, it's a bunch of beings that are psychic and that's why you're psychic. They beam psychic messages to you and that's why you think you're psychic. You're not really. There's just entities within you that send you that to make you feel that way.

Yeah, to make you feel like you're special or whatever. Yeah. But his claims about his abilities just grew over the years. And by the 60s and 70s, he was like, I can fuck with the weather, sporting events, political outcomes, major world affairs. And so Jeffrey Mishlov started publishing a study that was documenting a lot of these apparent feats but even rogo who knew owens personally and spent several days with him he's like i still i don't have a firm conclusion about the dude he's like he's sincere but he's really complicated and he's just his early life wasn't like especially weird or anything but his later career you know just

it it seemed like this perpetuating of this uh delusion kind of is what he doesn't say that but that's kind of what i read into it yeah so back Back to Janus, she starts seriously training with Ted Owens about in August, specifically August 27th of 1978. She spent two days with him staying at a motel overnight. How, how, how. That's what I mean. It's not specifically stated. No, it doesn't need to be.

It's highly implied. And, you know, whether they did or not, it doesn't matter. It's not, first of all, Joe, it's none of our business. Second of all, good for that. I say good for her. But she was attending sessions during the day. And her sister-in-law, Jade actually came along too because Janus was very nervous about hypnosis, which was apparently a major part of the program.

So, yeah. She's like, he's going to put me under and do stuff. So she had her sister with her, her sister-in-law. Turns out I'm into that. But by the time they get done with this training, Owens was telling Janice and Jade that the space intelligences or SIs would soon start appearing in the sky for them. They're like, you finished a training, now it's going to happen.

And they didn't have to wait very long. That same night, about 11 o'clock. Janice and Jade, they left Owens home and started driving back towards Vancouver. And they're on this dark, windy road out in BFE. It says somewhere in between Silverton and Woodburn. No idea where that is, but apparently it's in BFE. Okay. Cornfields and whatnot.

Sure. So they're coming around this curve, this particular curve, and they look out the window and they see all these beams of light coming down from the sky into the cornfield. And she said the area around those beams appeared pale blue and almost. soothing, but the rest of the sky looked unusually dark. So we do hear that effect with the lights. We've talked about, you know, the

lights coming from nowhere. It's just lit up. Yep. But another thing you hear a lot is they don't behave like a flashlight where it lights up the area. It's like just the beam is lit up. Yes. That's an almost like a laser, like a big ass laser.

Yes, exactly. There's like a lack of radiant illumination. A hue to the outside. It's very focused. Very interesting. Yeah, like a split in reality almost. Like no ambient illumination is just right there. Yeah, that's what it sounds like, yeah. So they pull over and they jump out of the car to look at it.

And they're like, wow, this is exciting, but very confusing. And she said to the right of these beams was this large, even brighter object, which she said it looked like a low-hanging star, but of course it didn't behave like a star. She said it moved slowly and would stop and then start moving again. And she's like, this is not an optical illusion. Swear to God, on a stack of Bibles. Because she had her sister-in-law with her. Like, they both saw the same thing.

So shared hallucination, maybe. It was the 70s. Maybe they dropped a little, uh, a little funny sugar cube. Sure. Sure. It happened. Not mentioned going around.

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the line between right and wrong begins to blur. New episodes week over week. Watch the Hulu original series Furious, now streaming only on Hulu on Disney Plus. But then they get interrupted because a cop shows up and he pulls over because he's like, what are you crazy bitch is doing? And he's like, do you guys need help? we broke down and but according to Janice he could also see the same thing so you have a third

party and a cop verifying what they're whatever this is uh but the cop's like marr it's just reflections from the city lights it's swamp gash you know that's exactly they sounded yeah so they're like all right let's test that uh test that out so they're like let's drive further down the road we'll try to get a clearer look at it from uh you know further down the road and see if the lights lined up with any of the nearby towns. And of course, that didn't settle shit. So they're like, all right, let's go back to that same curve. And once they get back to the original location, they get out of the car again,

and they raise their hands toward the light as you do. And almost immediately the beams just lit up even brighter. So they excited these beams. Yeah, they're pumped up. Yeah. So Jade turns her head towards Silver Creek Falls. Again, no idea where the fuck that is. And she's like, look how dark.

the sky is over there. And at that exact fucking moment, a low flying light just started moving towards them. And of course, silently and slowly. And it's passing over their head. And of course, no engine or any mechanical noise or anything.

But Janice said it gave off this beautiful yellow aura. And they just stood there staring at it with their mouth open. And then just went away again. Huh. And even that. It wasn't the end of this night. This is the first night after she gets done with her apparent training. Yeah.

So they make it to Portland and they see a red light moving above a building in downtown. And as they keep watching it, it just grows larger and larger. And then it goes woo-o and shoot sideways across the sky, getting bigger and bigger and bigger before it just bursts into a brilliant flash. Huh. Like what? And this is a red light. Yeah. And both seeing it each time.

Is the cop still with him? No, no, no. He bailed. Okay. The cop was like, the city, go home. Yeah.

I'm bored. But so for most of the drive home, these original beams that they saw on that curve were still visible. As they kept going, they kept looking back and they could still see them. But she said later, it looked like they bend or like draw together and form this kind of an arc. Like the lights bend?

Okay. She also said there was like a cloud-like formation that detached itself. from that arc and traveled in the direction of her house before that also disappeared. A little fart. Yeah, just a little UFO fart. A little squirt. So again, I mean, there's more experiences, obviously, but like, what's the point? Like, if you're thinking these are ETs or some beings, what's the fucking point?

So you can do light shows? Great. You got anything else? they do have more and that's the thing I think this is like the stair step in yeah I happen quick but it's just the first thing that leads them into something else because we hear it all the time

missing time is a gateway to the phenomena because they can't come up with that and so they start investigating and get curious they stare at the void it stairs back blah blah blah so then you have this as well the void's kind of testing them at seeing where they're at are you scared of this or are you into this

we're gonna throw some really bizarre shit at you are you gonna freak out or can we take this to the next level And so it is sort of like gifting a wild animal in the woods You're trying to help or something like that You lay a little food out and you step back And you say, okay, is this cool? And then we step up the interaction from there

But it sounds like it's just this cat and mouse Sort of get to know you kind of thing. Yeah. But yes, bizarre. Like what the fuck? That is a good, it's like trying to take a picture of a bison in Yellowstone, right? Like you try to get closer and closer. Yeah, you inch your way up.

You see if this is cool. You're like, all right, are you going to fuck murk me and I'm not going to murk you? You know, it's just this kind of exchange of, are we cool? Yeah. Are you going to launch me into the air? Right. So by this point, Janice is like, wow, this training really worked.

That's awesome. And Owens had told her that the SIs here would appear. And within hours, her and her sister-in-law had seen all this crazy stuff. Yeah. And so now she's not just curious about UFOs. Now she's like, okay, I have some kind of like active relationship with them. I'm special, right? That's how it starts.

First one's free. Right. Then two days later, August 29th, she had another encounter. And even before the incident she had with Jade, she had occasionally noticed what she calls a low-hanging star. And she thought it was, oh, it's got to be an extraterrestrial vehicle, right? Sure. But on this night, on August 29, she actually took her two kids outside and pointed out this low-hanging star. And then she goes, hmm, and tries to do.

to establish this telepathic contact with it. And in about 15 minutes, several of these small little darting lights started shooting around the larger one. And I mean, even her daughter were like, oh, wow,

you're powerful. And about 10 minutes after that, they saw another red ball of light dropping straight down from the sky. And she's like, Janice is like, I wonder if I could do this again. So she's like,

you know what? I'm going to bring along one of the most skeptical people I know, her father-in-law. So she brings him out there. And she's like, check this out. And at first, nothing happened. Want, want, want.

So she calls it telepathing. She tried to telepath with it, but just empty, nothing. And her daughter's like, I think we went down the wrong road. Maybe we should go back to the place they had made contact the night before. And they're like, all right, fine. Let's go back to that same spot. This is another weird detail. Like, you have to be in a certain spot.

Yes. If it's telepathic, why you got to be in a certain spot? Yes. It might be actually swamp gas. on this one, dude, because if they're in a certain spot and need to see it from that, maybe the cop was right. This is just a bizarre-ass story. I don't know. But yeah, the geographic

location is interesting that it's so specific because it's then now sort of like this haunted bridge idea. It's in one place and only that bridge is haunted, but you got to be there to be haunted by it. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's like, what? What a mysterious

universe, Brandon? I tell you what? I tell you what. Well, and it is interesting because this is like a haunted house. It's like a haunted corner of the road, but really what manifests are these lights and this bizarre things that honestly just baffled more than explain themselves. Yeah. And so

it is just sort of this mystery, but it is a geographical spot mystery. Like the meadow, you know, Trey Hudson, where he's at, it's kind of concentrated in an area. Very interesting. Yeah, or those time flip stories on that certain stretch in England. It's like, okay. It could be a whole pocket right there that's a no

fly zone, just don't fly in it because it's an open window portal that's sort of a flex the background, but really there's a bunch of shit flying around in and out of that thing. Yeah, and that's the idea of window areas. Right. There's certain geographical areas that have these things that happen. I don't know. But so they go back to this, the area they were in the day or two before with her father-in-law in a within five minutes.

She's, you know, trying to make contact again. Guess what? Bright, white light just shoots from the lower southern horizon all the way toward the northern horizon. It has this tracer thing, just a smooth tracer thing. just a smooth tracer across the whole sky. And she's like, this was way bigger than a shooting star and it moved super fast. So they saw a long-ass shooting star, but it left this trace across the sky. Okay.

Which they do, but apparently it was much longer. I don't know. A little different. So they're like, awesome success for the night. Call it night. Yeah. So they go home. And as they're getting home, her daughter's like, Mommy, what is that?

and there's this weird cloud formation directly over their house. And the sky was otherwise totally clear, but she describes this cloud formation directly over her house as a hand made out of red clouds. And what's weird is it says that Janice initially paid little attention to it. Oh, why would you pay little attention to it after on purposely trying to do this type of thing and having a weird red hand over your house?

Why would you pay little attention to it? Well, it's a great question and an interesting thing to bring up here because a lot of folks in the community, this is what separates out factions into the freaky woo-woo. It's no, it can't be a UFO because I saw a Bigfoot before, so it can't be an alien. It's like, but dude, sometimes they hang out together. And then like this, maybe the lights are associated with the cloud phenomena, but she didn't connect it because it didn't identify as a flying saucer extraterrestrial that she wanted it to be. Therefore, her RES did not count it as part of the phenomena.

And that's interesting, too, what you're talking about, about this, the associated, what are the, poltergeist type phenomena that comes along with this type of stuff, because Velae started asking this and his questioning when he was getting these UFO reports. He was like, okay, well, did you get any weird phone calls where the phone would bring and then just hang up? Was there anything weird happening around the house? And people were like, I don't know. I didn't take note of that. It was what I saw, I'm telling you about a light in the sky. And he's like, yes, but this is the point is that it's all sort of connected. So it is interesting.

Our RES just filtered it out, but that her daughter was there to kind of help her with the observation. Yeah, and that's the important thing about taking in all of these different perspectives and details is because I think they are connected in some way when they try to segment these different areas of investigation. And it's like, no, look at all of it. That's what Valley was great at doing. Yes, and now I'd be curious to see if it was a right hand or a left hand that they saw. Was it palm down or fingers open? Was any of the individual fingers up?

Right. Was it pointing in a certain direction? Was it the left hand or the right hand? Like, these are the things. Or did it have six fingers? Was it AI trying to generate a hand for you? And then you can tell we live in a simulation. You know, what are we talking about here?

I have more questions. Yeah, you need to take better notes, Janice. Yeah, Janice, God damn it. Focus. Be in the moment. But what made her pay attention to it is that she's like, oh, that is kind of odd, I guess. But she sees two tiny little white lights just zipping around. She says at tremendous speed through this hand cloud.

And so she starts calling these things, apropos, zippers. Okay. And to her, they were totally different from. shooting stars, especially since they're in this weird ass hand, cloud thing. And I guess she saw several similar lights around Silver Creek Falls. And by then, she's totally convinced that she had not imagined any of this, which, fair enough. You had people with you. I mean, come on.

Yeah. And she's like, okay, Ted, Ted Owen's training opened a door. Like, she, from that point on, she's like, the door is open. Yeah. That's when I would start getting a little like try not to poop my pants because if you recognize that you maybe opened a door somehow maybe take a step back. Yeah, take a step back, close it, you know. Put some WD40 on the hinges is probably a little squeaky and then just close it. Again, she hadn't, she had no like prior experience or interest in this type of thing either.

So she didn't have a full set of context for like what this could. be or where it could go. So I won't give her too much shit on that, but none of this is undissimilar to drug addiction. Let's say you're in your 40s, you never did any drugs, and all of a sudden you do cocaine for the first time. And all of a sudden, you're just like, oh my God, cocaine, dude, this is fucking great. And then you start

hanging out with people who do cocaine. And you started going to get it at weird place, and then you start changing your behavior and, you know, all this kind of thing. Like, it's going to alter you a little bit. And it is a dick. Next thing you know, you're asking for change outside Walmart. And you're sucking dick for it. That's right. So according to her diary, again, this is all within a couple days.

So the first week in September, she said it was an almost nightly routine of these strange lights, these zippers and whatnot appearing outside of her home. She would just, she'd bring her whole family outside and just watch. And at first it looked like ordinary stars. So this is weird too. So they'd go outside and just look at the stars, but then one of them would just start moving. And sometimes this bright point of light would dim whenever an airplane. was coming by. Like it was trying to like,

oh, I'm just, I'm just a normal star. Oh, interesting. And then it would go, and brighten up again once the plane it passed by.

So weird. But she says this activity was not limited to the sky. And Rogo, to his credit, thank you, doesn't go into a lot of detail with the poltergeist like shit. Because,

I mean, especially for the MU audience, you know what we're talking about. She had these poltergeist like things, things moving, plates break, you know, all the normal stuff.

Chair stacking. But he included that because he's like, this only kind of reinforces my suspicion that it's something to do with the brain or the psychic phenomena type of angle. Yeah. And so then we jump ahead to September 10th. And by then Janice wanted somebody like outside of her family to see all this stuff going on. So she's like, all right, Irene, my buddy, come with, you got to see this stuff.

And simple enough plan, they drove out to a, this river outside of Vancouver and she's like, it's a beautiful crystal clear evening. She's like, Irene, really hope you can see this crazy thing that I, that's been happening. Yeah. And, uh, the UFOs showed up in a big way. They did not disappoint.

Okay. So almost immediately, they start seeing these, what she called zippers, these little zippy things that get around the sky. But then another object appeared. And it was across the horizon between these two heels, these two hills, this brilliant white beam of light.

that just started moving slowly and steadily. And it wasn't doing the streak thing like a meteor or leaving like a con trail from a jet. She said, she specifically says it was moving way too slow to be an aircraft and, of course, completely silent. And she says the glowing trail, almost like the one she saw with her father-in-law, remained visible for about 15 minutes without losing its perfectly straight shape. So very slow moving,

what you would think would be a shooting star or something else, but you see the trail for 15 minutes. So there's like a bright-ass line in the sky. Are we sure there was an acid? Because, I mean, that's called tracers, and they're fun. And I've seen that. Yeah. But this is interesting, too.

Yeah. And this is when you would start doing these light shows in the sky, because everybody's on acid at this point. You know, CIA's doing all kinds of crazy shit. They're just putting in water supplies. So, I mean, this is the time you come out and start dancing. Yeah. Yeah.

But then it turned a little bit weirder. So the top of one of the hills just lit up with a white light. And Janice is like, oh, the craft landed there. Why is that the first place you go with it? I don't know. But she just assumed, oh, since we saw it between these two hills and now it's lit up. Okay, so it landed there. Sure.

There's also sort of like a telepathic knowing that some of these folks are engaged in once they are locked into these things because they know they're being observed. Therefore, there's a receive of the signal. You got a little bit of it in you if you're tuned to it. And even at a subconscious level, which again, we're going to talk about in the extension. Very interesting. But she's, oh, and then a couple minutes later, so they see what she thinks is the craft landing on this one hill. But then next to them, they hear this movement in the trees. And she's like, this wasn't an animal wrestling through the brush or anything.

She said it sounded like a concentrated burst of wind moving through one specific area coming directly towards them. Huh. But she said, mixed in with this weird sound was a metallic. clanking sound. Huh. And then her car started to react again. She said the vehicle's radio antenna began vibrating. So the car is picking up whatever this is too.

Like we hear so often, you know, the car is shutting off or the battery being drained and whatnot. Yeah. And she said they were both kind of scared. But, of course, instead of running like white people, they're like, no, we're going to stay right here. Let's see what happens. I want to see how this ends. And yeah, so they were like hoping whatever this was would pop out and reveal itself and it would be hot Pleiadians or something. Right.

But all of a sudden, both of them, her and Irene, just could not hold their heads up anymore. And she's like, I don't even know how to explain this. It was like we were almost knocked unconscious or put in this hypnotic state. And she said none of them had been sleepy before that, but all of a sudden time just didn't exist anymore. I'm checking Bill Cosby's tour dates for 1978, see if he was in Portland. They're all the put and blah. Yeah. But she said that, according to her journal, she's like, I don't know if maybe it was our minds being trained to receive communications or something.

Obviously, she's not sure about that. She's just like, I don't know. That's an idea I have. But eventually they left. So they did have this missing time thing where they just, groggy as shit and she said almost knocked out so it's not like they completely lost consciousness but i would venture to say they probably did because notoriously when you lose consciousness you don't remember losing consciousness do you right now you're just not there's suddenly groggy

and hypnotized you could have some crazy visions you know or implanted memories or whatever so and he doesn't get into that that's the i mean that's it That's just what happened. Damn. So anyway, they leave this place. But as they're driving away, they see this gorgeous, huge, orange full moon that's, you know, rising behind the hills. And it just, it made him feel really peaceful. Hmm.

After having this hypnotic experience. Yes. But the experiences didn't go away after that night. And they continued all the way through September. And according to Janus, they kind of reached a turning point on September 30th. That evening she had been at a birthday party, and somewhere around 2 o'clock in the morning, fucking party, Janice. Yeah, no shit.

Get it, girl. Good Lord. She knows how to party. And she's in Pacific time. It was around 2 o'clock in the morning, and she gets this telepathic message. And it just tells her, get it in your car and drive alone into the countryside. This is what the chicks experience with the way you do and text it, two in the morning, right? But it's from an alien in their head.

So, of course, like the good contactee she is, she didn't question it. She's like, yes, I will get into my car and drive alone, into the countryside at 2 fucking a.m. Sounds perfect. And she was at a birthday party, but again, it's not mentioned what kind of cake they might have been eating. So she headed towards her usual location outside of Vancouver and just waited. And, of course, before long, blinking red light starts passing silently over her car. and at the same time she saw another faint arc of light

that just stretched across part of the sky so she has these repeated things that are just these arcs of light across the sky like a shooting star but the trail stays but then so while she's watching this another mental message arrived so she got the second follow-up text

and this one says hey drive farther into the mountains follow this river towards a much more isolated location oh and That's when she was like, eh, hard pass. No. That's crossing the line.

Good for her. Finally. They were thinking that too. Yeah, up until then, she's like, yeah, I'll chase these crazy lights at 2 o'clock in the morning. No problem. Like, oh, girl, don't do it. Driving alone into the mountains in the middle of a night because of a voice in my head? No, that's where I draw it.

That's the line. And she's like, no, I'm way too scared. I'm not going. Yeah. So she says, she's like, I know I'm scared. not doing that. And she's like, I'm going to get out of here. But just then she sees two friends walking up the road. Her friends, Terry and Bill. What? Two o'clock in the morning. Out in the middle of Vancouver, Washington at her spot? Yeah, at her viewing spot.

Weird. Did she tell them about the spot? So we'll get to that. So this is right after she says, no, bro, I'm not driving, you know, alone into the woods. Yeah. Great timing. Terry and Bill come walking up. Two familiars arrive. Perhaps. to help you change her mind. Yeah. So obviously she hadn't like arranged to meet them there or anything, but Terry's like, man, Janice, I saw this crazy glowing ball of light over your car. Mm-hmm. And she's like, oh, you know what?

Let's go to that spot. So they jump in her car and they all head towards the area that Janice said she'd been directed to. In her head. Yeah. 45 minutes. Can you imagine telling that story? Terry and Bill. They're like, yeah, that light told me to go here.

We're going to go there. Terry and Bill sound down. Maybe she was wearing a low-cut top. They were feeling fresh. They did have some acid. They were just down to party, you know? They were like, this is our chance, bro. This is it.

This is it. Eiffel Tower. Let's go. High five. High contact. So they drive 45 minutes into the woods. And it's near a waterfall. Oh, you can hear the music now.

Lionel Richie playing. Yeah. So they. They get out, and Terry and Janice were kind of ahead, and Bill's just behind them. He's like, oh, fucking third wheel, you know. Yeah. And while they're walking, Janice is trying to do her telepathing again. Nothing happened.

So they waited a little longer. And they're looking across the sky for that bright star they had been following like fucking three wise men or something. And it just was gone again. Then the atmosphere around them started changing. She says the clear blue sky, so it must be morning. this point. Okay. I mean, because they did drive for 45 minutes, right? Right. And to, yeah. So it's morning by this point. The clear blue sky just all of a sudden darkened in this weird mist kind of rolled in. And they were kind of at a high elevation in the woods here. And they're like,

oh, the weather's changing. It's normal, you know. But then they stood there for a while and they're like, okay, it's foggy, whatever. And then she noticed something to their left on this hillside. It was, again, a beam of pure white light rising over the ridge. And, and, this is with the sky apparently darkening in this mist, you know. And she's like, oh, it's just a truck going down the road. But then that didn't make sense, like immediately because then it moved over the hill and then four separate white beams all of a sudden shot out of this one. And Terry and Bill are standing there and they're like, we don't have a flashlight so we can't really see what the hell that is. And but she's like, judging by the arrangement of these beams, she thought it was either around or at least close to circuit.

object and of course it didn't make any sound so it can't be a truck right so they start walking towards it as as you do what you do and it started moving and she says it descended down the hillside through the trees like it was rolling on invisible wheels again completely silent though so kind of floating i guess yeah but instead of coming towards them it shifted to their right until it was like almost directly in front of them so it was coming at a weird angle and then shifted and got kind of in front of them. Okay. And then a few more faint beams then shot up into the air.

And then all of a sudden, just like that, it switched off, nothing silent. So whatever they had been looking at just vanished. And so they waited, they waited some more and no more lights, nothing. But then they all had this uncomfortable feeling that they weren't alone. You know that weird feeling like where you can feel eyeballs? Oh, yeah. It was that kind of a feeling. I guess. She said it was

it was like an invisible presence somewhere in the forest around them. And it got so strong that they're like, you know what, maybe we should go back to the car. You know what? So they get back to the car and then they had an idea. They're like, if this thing is really following us,

then why not drive around the mountain roads and see whether it comes out again? Of course. Why wouldn't you? Right. You're up there. And again, they didn't have to wait long. About 30 minutes later,

they spotted two enormous glowing globes. so they can actually see the shape, I guess, resting on the hillside. And then Terry's like, oh, you know what? I have binoculars in the car. Just now he remembers it. Thanks, Terry. Great.

So they all take turns looking at it through the binoculars. And she said the objects shimmered with this yellow, orange light that sparkled like a crystal in bright daylight. And she said they didn't always look spherical either. She said sometimes they looked a little concave. Other times they look almost V-shaped. Okay. But she's like, actually,

it is kind of hard to tell because of this intense sparkling. effect. So the exact outline was kind of difficult to figure out. But she says she thought the object resembled a shallow flying saucer with two bright sparkling headlights. So they sit there and watch it for a while before they're like, yeah, just go home. I guess this is boring. So they get back to the spot where Janice had first met Terry and Bill earlier at 2 o'clock in the morning or whatever. And Terry's like, whoa, look at that shit. And they turn around just in time to see this glowing orange thing. she says something shaped like a pole with an arrowhead.

Huh. What? A pole with glowing orange. Like a giant arrow. Yeah. They're shooting a light arrow or something. Weird. But it came straight at Terry.

What she says was an incredible speed and then instantly reverse direction going backwards before disappearing again. Oh, like your brother when he would stand over you and pin you down and he'd spit a lugy at you and then suck it back up into his face? that's exactly what I was picturing. Wow. So at this point, Rogo was like, she had kept all these careful notes, you know,

and a lot of these major events involved all these additional witnesses. And so Rogo's like, regardless of the explanation, it still deserves some attention. Because, I mean, plenty of people report, you know,

lights in the sky or whatever. But he's like, what makes this case unusual is that she thought she could consistently, replicate this experience. Right. And more importantly, that there was all these witnesses to it.

And he includes an account from one of Janice's friends, actually. She goes by Betty M. And she was definitely not the UFO type. Like she did not go looking for UFOs. But around September 15th of 79, Janice invited her to one of her nighttime Dr. Stephen Greer-esque excursions, you know. And Betty's like, okay, I'll go. go, but I'm just because I'm curious because you're my friend and this is weird. Why not?

And she's like, I have no idea what I'm even supposed to be watching for. And I don't, I'm not even convinced Janice. I think she's like dealing with grief still. Like, she's kind of losing her shit. Yeah. And they brought along Janice's 13 year old at the time her daughter and one of her daughter's friends and Janice's two younger kids. So it was like, okay, this is kind of more of a controlled investigation family outing, okay? Yeah, but do you bring your kids? Well, you don't know any better. You think this is cool, so you're bringing your kids.

Yeah, man, I don't know. But of course, after a while, they noticed these unusual lights that were blinking back and forth when they waved at them. And Betty, her friend, she's like, I didn't hardly talk at all, mostly because I just wanted to see more. but then everything changed again and all of a sudden the animals start losing their shit. Dogs start barking, horses started in the fields and stuff.

That's what they sound like. Yeah, exactly. And apparently horses started like running across the road and just like they were in a, what do you call it? A stampede type of thing. Yeah. So all of them turn around and look east.

And again, another brilliant white beam of light shoots us. up. And Betty says that it climbed into the sky like an airplane taking off, but of course, completely silent. And as it kept getting higher and higher, she said she could finally make out that it was something resembling a circular craft. And what really caught her attention, do you want to take a guess? There were porthole-like windows around the side. It's going to say portholes. And apparently this thing just crossed over the road directly in front of it.

and it kept gaining altitude and then she said it seemed to transform. So instead of remaining this porthole like disc thing, she said then it took on the appearance of a star before blending into the rest of the sky. Mm-hmm. Man. So again, this weird transformer

or just morphing UFO shit, man. We've covered a little bit of this on the show before and it does. It has these morphing tendencies and it's weird that the lights just come out, you know like forest gums it like that rain right it comes straight up from underneath and they just kind of float out are they below the ground and then they come out is this like a it's a spirits is it entities is it egragores of fairies that are sending shit out to fuck with people because they're having a good time they're bored you know what is a fairy do all day i don't know he's done picking berries

you'd go mess with the local folk and bring their kids out in blankets and stuff and watch your lights it's pretty interesting man yeah it's like a kid playing with an ant hill it is yeah it's what it feels like yeah and maybe that's why we can't figure you're out exactly what they look like because I've brought this up before but to an ant even if it can see us it has no idea what it's looking at and to an aunt it would look like we were changing

shape and moving at great speeds and you know yeah I think about this all the time yeah so they're driving home and they pass this field with this creepy like horror movie mist on the low lying mist and of course Janice being Janice just gets out of the car

and just walks into the fog Jesus Christ Janice And Betty's watching this, and she says Janice raised both hands toward the sky. And she says the mist seemed to respond. So instead of this natural mist drifting, you know, she said it rose upward and bent into the shape of a huge arc. Something with arcs and Janus. I don't know. But I guess the kids got so freaked out that Janos was like, okay, I'm done. Fine.

Geez, we'll go home. And Rogo's like, he's like, Betty's testimony is important because she wasn't just. repeating what Janice said afterwards. She apparently signed an affidavit describing this whole thing. Oh, okay. So, I mean, that doesn't mean anything, but it's still odd that she's like, no, I swear to God. Like, hand to God. Yeah, you put your name to it.

Yeah. So, of course, Rogo's like, okay, does this mean that she established communication with ETs? He's like, no, of course not. I'm just throwing around ideas here. He's like, but UFO doesn't automatically. imply aliens either. It's just something that's unidentified. We don't know what it is.

And he's like, there's actually surprisingly little evidence that these lights that Janice and these other people saw were conventional spacecraft carrying beings from another planet. Agreed. He's like, I think it's thought forms.

He's like, I, this is where Rogo's, I mean, he's not dead set on it, but he's like, I think it's some kind of thought form. Or maybe like this enormous psychic display, similar to these poltergeist activities, just on a larger scale.

And again, he comes back to Ted Owens' actual training methods. And he says these training methods didn't particularly, uh, or didn't specifically involve anything to do with UFOs.

What they did include was like visualization, self-apnosis, relaxation, uh, that kind of thing. But there were, what they didn't include, were these explicit lessons on summoning fucking spaceships.

How wild. But her psyche, when she went in and did these exercises, her psyche led her to summon UFOs. So that's what her psyche was really interested in manifesting. Is this just sort of like greater control over the natural world around her in a supernatural way? And she got it. Very interesting. Scared the shit out of her kids.

It pressed a couple of folks. I mean, how bizarre. And he compares it to, at the end of the story, he kind of compares it to another guy named Paul Solem. Do you remember this case? Paul Solem? I do not. Paul Solem.

I'm going to have to look into this case more because I don't remember it either. But I guess his story came decades earlier in 1948. Him and his wife had seen a UFO near their range in Idaho. And after that, Paul said he started hearing inner voices. Uh-huh. And he's kind of elevated and developed into these conversations. with what he believed were space people. But unlike Janice, you know, she had these mostly like lights and psychic impressions and all this stuff.

And Rogo says he's like, I'm abbreviating Paul's story here. It's like if you want to look into it more, this is just a brief overview to compare it with Janice's. Okay. But so, yeah, after what he thought was this mental contact with ETs, Paul travels to Arizona and he started hanging out with the Hopi's interesting connections there too but apparently a bunch of the Hopes were like

oh very interesting and it's because the Hopes thought he was they correlated it to the kachinas uh huh yep so again he's fulfilling their prophecy same thing different name because of a different

culture or way that you look at it so Right. So by 1970, he had quite a reputation. And so he moved down to Prescott, Arizona. And he started, like, doing talks on his spiritual message from these ETs. And then he started saying, oh, I can make UFOs appear on command. So he invited local newspapers, people from the Hopi.

He's like, oh, we're going to go to this one field, where everybody can gather and all that stuff. and apparently, according to the reports published at the time, unusual lights did appear in response. And so his reputation kept getting bigger and bigger. And then he made a bit too specific of a prediction. This is where it gets bad for most people when you start trying to set dates or, you know, whatever. Got to keep it vague, folks. Yeah.

So I guess he did this for about eight months. and after eight months of these apparently successful demonstrations, he's like, you know what? A UFO will physically materialize in a field outside Prescott on a particular occasion. And a bunch of people showed up because they were like, well, this guy's done it before. So awesome. And guess what happened? Fuck all.

Fuck all. Fuck all. This makes sense for the phenomena. You get him ramped up. You get a bunch of people following. You get to this huge payoff and fucking blue balls. That's right. And his reputation, his support in the Hopi community is just overnight, just gone.

And that's the payoff for the entities. Yeah. Is his destruction. All of that. That's their payoff, which is fascinating. Yeah. And so he's comparing that with Janus, who really wasn't seeking a following like this guy. And he's not even saying that, like, Paul was just a fraud or something.

He's like, I think that he, that Paul believed everything he was saying. saying it's just that whatever was happening wasn't what you assume they were. Yep. So that's where, and that's why he included in here, he's like, so Janice, unlike Paul, she wasn't preaching or building a movement or being a prophet. She was just documenting this bizarre sequence of experiences that seem to involve either psychic practices or these, you know, these repeated appearance of these weird aerial lights. witnessed again by multiple people.

And so, you know, whether these lights or ETs or PK effects or whatever, he's like, it's still, we don't know. Like, that's how these stories always end, though, is like, that was weird. Mark, we don't know. And apparently Janice is interested in this whole thing, to go back to Janus's story, she kind of lost interest in it. And then it went away. And Rogo's like, so that just. lends more credence to the idea that it has something to do with the psyche and not little green men from Mars. Yep. As she relieved the grieving from her fallen father, then the effect moves on.

It's almost like something to distract you from how grief-stricken you are. It gives you something to do while you sort of integrate to the new interstandings in your life, the changes, right? These real dramatic times. Again, this liminal time in your life, this pivotal, like, transitionary type of thing. And that's when these things, I don't know. It's, I just thought it was interesting because of Chris Bledso and Stephen Greer and the other ones that basically are saying, yeah, we're doing it with our mind. Yeah. But they, they also think they're, I mean, I'm not speaking for them, but from what I've seen, they think that they're using their mind to call the ETs in. Right.

When it could just be using your mind to make thought forms appear or whatever. And nothing ever comes of it. I mean, Chris Bledso's story is really. famous now because he's also made some predictions about certain things and dr greer i mean you know he makes great money doing this so that's good but it's just uh like what's the goal like okay let's say you can do that and that they're exactly what you say that they're these etes and that you can summon them and okay if so then what are you getting out of it or what are they out of you. Like, let's assume that's true, that you're actually doing that. Cool. You saw some

lights? That's amazing. Now what? Where are you going to go with it? This is exactly like befriending a wild animal of squirrel or something in the woods. It's like you can tell your friends and family that you've made this amazing connection with something out in nature that, you know, other people can also come and see and that's fascinating, but it keeps you at arm's length and it changes all the time, all these weird things. But like you said, what is the squirrel giving you? Is he telling you, not to mess with atomic weapons because is there anything useful that this squirrel can offer us, you know, is there some technology perhaps? Right. Those kind of things is where these questions go beyond the lights. Like what impact does it have? And I think it's getting the exact impact it's

meant to, which is just attention, man. And it does change folks. So it is interesting. It coincided with her grief. Her grief relieves as the phenomena relieves as well. It's almost a jankling key so that you don't lose yourself to grief. You have something else to sort of distract you while, again, you integrate that change. Yeah, it's just, Quite bizarre. It's too weird to put into any like one box, especially since everybody experiences all these things differently. But it's definitely, more and more,

the more I hear about these things, I'm like, it's not nuts and bolts. It's not an actual physical craft that's, you know, coming from Mars or wherever. Like, it doesn't seem like that to me. Maybe some of them are coming from the ocean, but that might be an entirely different thing. Yeah.

So to conflate all of these things, with it, even though I said I think it's the same thing appearing as different things. I also think life mimics or technology or the government mimics some of this shit for their own purposes. So, USOs, real interesting, the ones that come popping out of the water or shooting into the water, that very well could be some kind of technology that's human made or non, or breakaway civilization or whatever. But to conflate them with orbs or these other weird things and say that,

that's the same thing. I don't think is, I don't know, wise, but don't ask me. I don't know what I'm talking about. You know, a lie, because I'm exactly with you on this, man, I feel the exact same way we can't determine what these things are, but that's not our job. Our job is just to simply report that and kind of go, these are what these people are experiencing. A lot of folks out here can have some similarity with that. They can empathize with these stories sometimes and especially can empathize with the sort of perspectives that we offer on these, which is just to ask great questions, guys, you know, and that really if you are going through something wild in your life, look, look at how that's affecting the other things around you. There's just trauma's weird,

and we're all in this together. And stories like this just really help us show the power, I think, of the psyche, really, like you're talking about. Yeah. We're powerful, man, for sure. And to his credit, Ted Owens never, you know, said, like we talked about it, he never came out and just said, here's how you're someone in a flying saucer. Right. He loved that. that up to Dr. Stephen Greer. All right. For the right price. Yeah, as long as you got a couple grand, it goes plop your ass in the desert and concentrate

real hard. Then maybe you can see some lights. And then what a Saturday, you know? What do you think he smells like, Stephen Greer? You know what? Probably, you know that old cologne brute? That's what I imagine. I was thinking an old, like, dad, cologne, like that your dad's or your grandfather would

wear him. Oh, a stetson. Yeah. Yeah. I think he views himself as a stetson man, but he definitely has some brute. closet too. What's weird is that I actually like that smell to a degree because it reminds me of being a kid and my dad carrying me.

Like that's the smell correlation, you know, it's like, oh yeah. I used to be an innocent little kid. That's what I'm saying. It's very nostalgic and it reminds you of walking through the mall, right? And you had those scents just wafting about. I think he needs it to cover the lizard turn smell because lizard smell awful. I can usually smell a snake before I see it. I'll smell it and go, oh, where's that at?

Oh, there you are. I can see it because they have this certain tinge. And I think Brut is a good way to mask that, I would think. So, you know, Dr. Greer, if we ever meet and I come sniff your neck, don't be offended. I'm just being nostalgic. I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to make eye contact. I'm going to walk right over to him.

I'm going to get a good whiff, like an uncomfortable whiff, from a place that you're not going to expect. Yeah. Yeah. Mid thigh, perhaps. Well, anyway, yeah, that was, again, there's so many more cool nuggets in this book. So if you want it, I will link to it in the show notes. Or actually, Brandon, well, thanks. I will, yeah.

Beyond Reality by D. Scott Rogo the Great. And again, give us a little nugget. What do you got? Oh, yeah, dude. So we're going to go part three on our huge saga that we've got here. Not even sure how long this is going to go, honestly. As we're going through this, there's more and more that's being revealed. It's fascinating.

This one, we're going to go over some Zeta Revelation, some things that they have figured out from studying us and get, again, just a little bit more context on this. we go with a new character named Harone, which again, he is channeling through a computer. He's got an Esasani sitting there. Yes, exactly. And he's got a Pleiadian also kind of helping him translate with all this stuff and helping him. He's looking over at them going, what are these people asking?

And it's in this huge group setting. Very interesting. And then as they're interrogating this Zeta reticuli, who's answering all of these questions incredibly honestly, a couple of the folks in the audience that we're going to cover are abductees. And they ask him about painful experiments that they've had. he just kind of answers that in very interesting ways. Also about some genetic things, we may get to a little bit of their sexuality, but we're probably going to bump that to Friday, honestly,

because it's just deep. There's just so much to this. Also reading a little ahead, I can go ahead and spoiler alert the abduction from their perspective. It's something you guys have got to check out and sign up because it's going to be one of the extensions or a Tuesday show coming up here. But it's one of the most fascinating things, and I really do feel that this gives us a lot. lot of context. And especially as we're going to go into a work like I've promised the Dully Saffron Synergy Saga as well. And she rides around with these things and has a great time and

scoops people up from volcanoes that are about to erupt and watches dudes get shrunken boxes and gets to learn how to fly these craft. And so it's this huge interaction with these things. But she's got the perspective from the context that we're offering in the extensions here. So check it out. I sign up in the links below. It's a higher bit rate feed. It sounds so much better. Even though this sounds dope as shit. It sounds amazing.

So sign up. Definitely follow us along for this incredible saga that we're on. We're going to get to it here in just a little bit. Well, awesome. Looking forward to that. And yeah, if you're on Plus, stick around after the break. And if you're not, we will see you next week.

Your Plus extension. And thank you all for joining us here on Plus.