NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - 2025’s Money Year in Review and Travel Card Moves To Make Now

Episode Date: December 15, 2025

Hear how 2025 money news hit your wallet and whether your travel cards are really pulling their weight. How did 2025’s biggest money stories actually affect your wallet? How can you decide if your pricey travel credit cards are still worth it? Hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola recap the year in finance news to help you understand what the stories mean for your budget, savings, and plans for 2026. They unpack top news items including tariff-driven uncertainty, a brief but historic stock market crash and subsequent rebound, stubborn home prices, softening rents, and a late-year run of Fed rate cuts. Then they provide tips and tricks on staying focused on long-term investing despite volatility, using rewards cards and store programs to fight higher grocery bills, weighing renting vs. buying when housing costs are sky-high, and making sure your cash is still earning a competitive yield as high-yield savings rates drift down. Then, Smart Travel podcast hosts Meghan Coyle and Sally French give Elizabeth a live “credit card consult” on her stack of high-fee travel cards. They discuss how to tally up annual fees versus statement credits and perks, decide when lounge access really justifies keeping a premium card, identify weak-link airline cards that no longer match your home airport, and choose when to downgrade instead of cancel. They also dig into using grocery cards strategically, avoiding overpaying just to chase credits at specific merchants, managing the mental load of multiple “coupon book” benefits, and building a simple system to track expiring credits so your wallet — and not the card issuers — captures the most value. Card benefits, terms and fees can change. For the most up-to-date information about cards mentioned in this episode, read our reviews: American Express Blue Cash Preferred Review: The Ultimate Family Card  American Express Platinum Review: Top-Notch Lounge Access, Big Credits  Chase Sapphire Reserve Review: A High-End, High-Maintenance Card  Citi AAdvantage Platinum Card Review: Worth the Fee for Airline Loyalists  Citi AAdvantage Executive Review: Your Key to the Club   AmEx Blue Cash Everyday Review: Solid Cash Back, $0 Annual Fee  5 Things to Know About the T.J. Maxx Credit Card  Follow Smart Travel on your favorite podcast app: https://play.megaphone.fm/l-7v0exnsxc-kc8kejdruq  Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Guess what? NerdWallet is giving away $100,000 a day for 25 days in December. Yep, it's the debt-free December sweepstakes and I only have 30 seconds to tell you about it because, well, we're spending the budget on helping people pay off debt instead of on this ad. Now, here's the deal. Every day from December 1st through the 25th, one person will get $100,000 from NerdWallet. You can enter for free at nerd wallet.com slash debt-free December or in the nerd wallet app. All right, that's my time, because when nerd wallet gives

away millions, we can only afford 30 seconds to talk about it. One more time if you missed it, that's nerdwollet.com slash debt-free December or enter in the free nerd wallet app. And good luck. If you had to use one word to describe your finances in 2025,

what would it be? For me, my one word is progressive, Sean. Okay. Elaborate. I'm doing some of the things that I did last year, but I think I'm building on my financial habits from last year. So I've been able to continue maxing out my retirement accounts, but I've also addressed some behavioral finance issues I was struggling with and gotten better at budgeting. That's great. Well, for me, I would say accomplished because I did a lot this year. I started a business. I got married. I funded my honeymoon. And I still somehow have money in the bank after all of that. That sounds like a win to me, Sean.

that for you. Well, this episode, we're going to look back at the year that was in finance. Welcome to Nerd Wallet's Smart Money podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. This episode, we're going deep into all of my credit card business as I talk with the host of our Smart Travel podcast about how I can maximize the travel credit cards that I'm using. Do I, I'm going to I need all four of my travel credit cards, or should I ditch some? I'm going to say you should probably ditch some, but I have not listened to the segment yet, so we'll see. But before we get into all of that, 2025 is essentially over, so we're going to look back at the last 12 months in personal finance.

You can think about this as kind of our version of Spotify RAPT, where we'll highlight some of the most influential areas of personal finance over the last year. So, Elizabeth, are you a Spotify RAPT person? And if so, who are your top five artists of the year? Absolutely. And I wouldn't be Elizabeth if I didn't have a side quest. So I love the Spotify raps. However, last year, guess who popped up in my Spotify rap? I don't have the faintest idea. Ayo. My son Ayo with all of his Super Mario podcast and an annoying music ruined my top five. But this year, I got it back. So I had at number one refresh worship. So I like to listen to gospel music because it's calming for me. Jordan Welsh, who's another gospel artist. Drake, I know a complete other end of the spectrum, but that's my whole childhood, Chance the rapper, who I discovered more of his music this year, and rinsed and repeated, and then Leon Thomas, who I love when I'm in my lover girl era.

That's so sweet. Well, I only know two of those artists, so I might have to broaden my horizons and check out the other ones. I felt kind of basic this year. My top five artists were number one, Lady Gaga, because I loved her new album that came out. My second artist was Joe Hissachi. That's the composer for music for studio Jibli films, like, Princess Monanoque and Ponyo.

Third was Siza. I loved her new album that came out at the beginning of this year, or was it like the end of last year? One of those. And then the band, Tennis, which is kind of like an indie rock band.

And then, of course, rounding it out, Dolly Parton, my fave, my number one queen. My mom loved Dolly Parton. Growing up, we listened to so much Jolly Parton. She's the best.

She's the best. She is. Well, let's get into Smart Money's version of the top five artists of 2025, the top five stories in personal finance based mostly on our own interests and what we talked about on smart money this year. First up is the biggest consumer story of this year, and that has to be tariffs.

I have lost count of the number of times that I have said and heard the word tariffs. Yeah, it's a little exhausting. I'm kind of tired of it. It's like a couple of years back, everyone kept saying the word unprecedented. I feel like tariffs is the equivalent of that in 2025. But for good reason, you know, tariffs were a huge driver of uncertainty in our personal economies and in the broader economy over 2025. We saw the stock market briefly crater in the spring in response to tariffs, and the Federal Reserve seemingly took a more cautious approach to lowering interest rates throughout the year in anticipation of tariffs driving up inflation.

And, you know, we didn't see a huge immediate impact on prices due to tariffs, in part because many were lowered or delayed, like, from one day or one hour to the next. It was really chaotic. But tariffs did contribute to higher inflation this year. A report from the St. Louis Fed concludes, that tariffs contributed a 0.5% year-over-year increase in a measure of inflation known as the headline personal consumption expenditures this year. So, Elizabeth, did you feel the impact of inflation in your day-to-day spending? I think sometimes it's hard to tell in my day-to-day

spending, like, was this a tariff hike unless the business directly tells you that? But I will say, you know, I like me a good wig, and my wig lady hiked up her prices. She hiked up those prices because of apparently tariffs. Yeah. I mean, if they're being made abroad, they're being imported and there can be a tax on that now. That's right. So yes, that was a hike. And then also groceries. Oh my God. I buy five things. I spend $500. It's ridiculous. I certainly notice higher prices at the grocery store too. But it is hard to say where exactly tariffs are coming into play. Sometimes I just wonder if companies are being greedy and jumping on the everything is expensive now bandwagging and raising prices. Although I did see a piece in the New York Times about a woman who

bought a coat from a Dutch company. And when she was going to get the package delivered to her, she was hit with a surprise $250 tariff bill if she wanted that coat to get delivered. So she'd already spent a lot of money on this nice jacket. And then she has an extra bill on top of that. So she ends up spending close to a grand on this coat that she thought was going to be a little bit less than that. Wow. I thought you were going to say she returned it because that's exactly what I would have did. Return, return, return. I think by that point it was too late. And even if she had returned it, I don't think she would have been able to get a refund on that tariff. Well, I hope she enjoys the coat.

Me too. I personally did not want to obsess about tariffs. Like you said, the headlines were just changing it felt like by the hour. So I think I just more focused on my budgeting, especially when it came to groceries. It was really frustrating, just buying a couple of things, and it still is because they're still high and having a huge bill. But I think one of the things that helped me this year was maximizing cashback rewards on my credit card. the one that gives me rewards on groceries. So I've been able to more consistently use that when I'm buying groceries

and also use the store reward programs as well. That helps me. And then also just check in the refrigerator before going grocery shopping because why do I have 10 onions? You know, girl, you already had onions and now you bought some more, right? So that helps. Yeah, well, it doesn't seem like the tariff drama is going to go away anytime soon. So we'll be following this as we go into 2026.

All right. Now let's turn to the next big money story in 20, 24. the historic stock market crash. It was short-lived, but it was still memorable. Basically, the S&P 500 had its fifth largest two-day percentage decline since 1950. It dipped 12.1% in value, and for people who like raw numbers, like myself, the market essentially lost around $6.6 trillion in market value over the course of just two days. Wow. Now, I'm sure we can guess one of the catalyst. I'm not going to let you guess Sean because you work in finance. Has anyone said their guess? Okay, I'll tell you. Tariffs. The most overused word of 2025. That's right. The Liberation

Day tariff announcements were made April the 2nd and then a few days later, stocks all went tumbling down. But I have some good news. There was a silver lining. On April the 9th, the Dow Jones, SMP 500, and NASDAQ composite had their largest single session point. gains ever. Yes, I'm slowing that down so you can hear that because that was a good highlight. So that shows just how important it is to not panic when there is a sudden drop off in the stock market because if people sold stocks after the initial drop, then they would have lost all that money locked in those losses, whereas just a few days later, things were pretty much back to normal, if not, better than before. For anybody who doesn't know what did drive that high or

contributed to it at least was on the 9th of April, Trump paused reciprocal tariffs on countries for 90 days. So I think it's safe to say that investors were happy about that. Sean, how did you feel when the market crash happened? I felt kind of ambivalent because we talk a lot on smart money about investing for the long term, not minding these little blips that can happen, or maybe even a year where the stock market is not so great because we're focused on what's going to happen to my investments over 30 years. But I did use this as a chance to actually look at my investments and kind of gauge my emotional response as seeing my 401k be lower than it was a week before because sometimes we'll talk about, okay, ignore your investments during this time.

I actually think it can be a good exercise to build up your resiliency, to look at what's happening to your investments when things go down. How do you feel? If you are really stressed, it might be a sign that you actually are overly invested in risky assets for your risk tolerance or risk capacity. But for me, I just looked at it, had a moment of self-reflection and then closed my app and moved on about my day. That's such a good point, you know, the last point you made. And I think it just reminds me also of the important of diversification because I think sometimes we say, oh, you're investing for the long term. I think you're, you know, how your portfolio basically is cut out or cut into the different

pieces matters, right? Because if you're too heavily invested in one thing, depending on your goals, yeah, it could impact your portfolio. But yeah, I felt the same, Sean. So I basically felt unbothered, to be honest with you, because I'm not using any of that money anytime soon. and the stock market usually historically always rebounds. For better or worse, we have many years until our own retirement. So less of an issue for us than those who may be closer to retirement or in retirement. As you said, I think the stock market's worst day gives an opportunity to shop for stocks on sale. And who doesn't love a good sale?

I know I do. All right. So seeing as stocks have since rebounded, that means gains for many of us. I have seen lots of green in my portfolio over the past couple of months. And I'm also going to add that we've seen subsequent record highs in the stock market since that April crash. I think the biggest lesson remains, don't put money you need short term in the stock market. As I said earlier, diversify your investments, and also just don't sweat the dips if you're investing for the long term. Okay, moving on to the housing market in 2025.

The big story this year was how stuck many people felt in the housing market. A lot of would-be buyers are priced out because houses are just simply so expensive right now. interest rates haven't really fallen as quickly as a lot of folks were hoping that they were going to. And many would-be sellers are still holding on to those really low interest rates they got in 2020 or 2021. So Elizabeth, in the past, you've talked about how you are a proud renter. Does that say true throughout 2025, or are you getting the edge to buy a house? I'm still a proud renter, Sean. Nothing at all has changed. And especially with seeing what's been happening over the past year with hikes in property taxes and insurance,

homes. It's kind of cemented my decision to stay a renter for now. I will say this year, the heater in my house broke. I had no hot water. The dishwasher also broke. And both of those were headaches that I did not have to worry about. The benefit of being a renter. Yeah. Exactly. Hello, landlord. There's a problem. But I do think maybe in the future I would consider a home if I get married again or just maybe as an investment property as you're doing, Sean. But yeah, for now, I'm happy keeping my money invested in the stock market. and maxing out as many accounts as I can. Yeah, you have a lot more flexibility as a renter, that's for sure.

Well, if you do decide to change your mind and get into the market, there's a bit of good news. In 2025, we saw it become a little bit more of a buyer's market. According to Redfin, the typical home sold for 1.5% less than the listing price in October of this year. That actually is good news. Not enough for me to buy a house, but great for the aspiring homeowners. Well, while the home buying market is still pretty much in a rough spot overall, there were some bright spots for renters like you this year, Elizabeth.

According to apartment list, the national median rent fell 1% in November compared to prices a year ago, and vacancies are at a record high of around 7%. So while a 1% drop might seem pretty small, it's certainly better than rents going up, which is what typically happens. And that's good news for renters. So Elizabeth, since you are a renter beyond having to call up your landlord if something happens and enjoying not having to pay for these things out of pocket yourself, What has been your experience renting this year?

It's been a really smooth experience. I love the home that I'm renting. It's one of my favorite places that I've lived in. But I will put out there that I'm absolutely sending this episode to my landlord so that she can reduce my rent by 1%. Her landlord. Wishing you luck on that. I know. But it just makes me think I did leave Florida because my rent went up $570 a month.

Jeez. Yes. That's bananas. It's bananas. And while I do like renting, I was not trying to give my landlord around 30% of my money monthly. No. No, yeah. So I've been at my current place in Texas.

It'll be two years in June, 2026, and my landlord has been kind enough not to increase the rent, which I am thankful for. I also want to talk about the general vibe of being a consumer in the economy and managing your personal finances in 2025. I don't know about you, Elizabeth, but when I talk with a lot of my friends about their money and their outlook on the future, A lot of folks fall somewhere between jaded and nihilistic. It gets clear that many people are living really close to the edge in this economy. The pause and snap benefits in the fall was a big step back for a lot of people who are already on the financial edge. And in November, we saw a record number of consumers be delinquent on their auto loans, particularly those who are subprime borrowers or those with the lowest credit scores.

And anecdotally, among my network, it's only really those who have high-paying jobs or good benefits at work that have some, sense of optimism about their personal economies in the state of the world. And I think that's in part because they're just more insulated from how precarious the state of the economy is for a lot of people. So not to be a total downer, Elizabeth, but what was your experience of your personal economy this year? I will say that I feel very thankful, you know, to be in a stable job. I think lots of not, I think I know many people that I know lost their job this year and I still struggling to find work. So I would say I feel thankful and stable, but I know I'm very lucky. right, for my income, not to have changed much. But my expenses have gone up. I also feel lucky

to have the financial knowledge that I have because that's also helped me be able to say, well, expenses are higher. My income is relatively the same. You know, where do I need to cut back and where do I need to budget? But even with that, I've still been able to do pretty okay. But in terms of like how I feel about the economy, I feel just as loss as everyone else. It's hard to tell what direction it's going to go in, right? So again, I just try to focus on what I could control and that's my own personal finances. And I think that helps me not to get too down about what's going on, even though it's terrible. Definitely. And stats from NerdWallis 2026 Consumer Outlook report highlight this really odd time that we're in. 63% of respondents said that they

think 2026 will be better for them financially compared to this year. But at the same time, over half did they expect prices to rise next year. The things will be okay for them, but also things are going to be more expensive, which is not so great for them too. Also, the latest consumer sentiment data from the University of Michigan shows that people are feeling a little bit better about the economy this month compared to how they felt in November. But get this, compared to last December, consumer sentiment dropped almost 30%. Wow. Yeah. So we're heading into 2026 feeling worse off overall than we were a year ago. And we haven't even really touched in the job market that much beyond what you just mentioned there, Elizabeth. And, you know,

that's its own story of struggle that a lot of people are experiencing. No, that's right. And I didn't participate in this survey, obviously. But I do feel the same. I do feel the same. And finally, the last on our top five interest rate cuts. I think people went into 2025 hoping for cuts. I was people too. And also hoping that it would lead to some kind of financial relief as it relates to things like mortgage rates for aspiring homeowners, borrowing rates for people in need of affordable loans, and also lower rates for people with existing loans. But it did take a while. So we had some interest rate cuts this year. The first one happened in September and was a cut of 25 basis points in response to a weaker than expected jobs report in August. And then the second one

was in October by another 25 basis points. Just this past week, the feds gave consumers an early Christmas gift. Another rate cut. Yay. Sean, did you notice any impact of Fed rate cuts on your finances personally? The main area I noticed was that my high-yield savings account, is less high yield than it was at the beginning of this year. And in fact, the bank I've been using for many years has been more aggressively cutting their own yield on high-old savings accounts. So I'm currently transitioning over to a new bank that will give me more money on my high-old savings. Welcome to the club, Sean. I was going to mention that a downside of rate cuts that impacted me the most this year also was seeing my high-yield savings account rate go down. That

was not fun. So gone are the glory days of 5% APYs. But like you said, it's a good reminder to shop around. I personally did just about a week ago, and I opened a new account. So my old account was giving me 3.20% APY, and my new one is offering 4.20. And it only took me like five minutes. Thanks to NerdBals Roundups. That's how I found my latest one. So shop around folks. That's the bottom line. Well, those were our top five finance stories for 2025. And we would love to hear what your personal top stories were, because maybe they're different from our list. All right. Up next you guys are going to hear from me and the travel gals about all of my travel credit cards and whether I should keep or ditch some of them.

But before we get into that, we are at one of my favorite parts of the show, the part where we ask you, our beloved listeners, to take a moment and think about where you would like some guidance with your money. Maybe you don't know what to do with your money in 2026, and you need help formulating some goals, or maybe you're looking at tackling some of that debt next year and you need help with a strategy. Whatever your question is, you want you to send it to the nerd hotline at 901. 730, 6373. That's 901, 730, NERD.

Or you can email us at podcast at nerdwollet.com. Okay, let's get to this episode's money question segment. That's up next. Stay with us. Guess what? NerdWallet is giving away $100,000 a day for 25 days in December. Yep, it's the debt-free December sweepstakes, and I only have 30 seconds to tell you about it because, well, we're spending the budget on helping people pay off debt instead of on this ad. Now, here's the deal.

Every day from December the 1st through the 25th, one person will get $100,000 from NerdWallet. You can enter for free at nerdwollet.com slash debt-free December or in the NerdWallet app. All right, that's my time, because when NerdWallet gives away millions, we can only afford 30 seconds to talk about it. One more time if you missed it, that's nerdwallet.com slash debt-free December or enter in the free nerd wallet app. And good luck. $2,000 a year in credit card annual fees. That's what one of our fellow nerds is paying, but should she? We're doing a credit card consult with Smart Money's Elizabeth Iola to find out if her wallet is working for her or if it's time to trim the plastic. Welcome to Smart Travel, a deep dive into the tips, tools, and tactics to maximize your travel

dollars. I'm Megan Coyle. And I'm Sally French. And we're the travel nerds ready to help you plan your next big trip. But before we bring Elizabeth on and brace yourself listeners, because I think she has more energy than us. We have some beefy news. And before the news, we got to do that disclaimer. Sally, take it away. Okay, yes, chipmunk mode is on. Listeners, as always, we will talk about a few credit card companies that are nerd wallet partners in this episode, but that does not influence how we discuss them. The benefits, terms, and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting, but things can change. Some offers may have expired by the time you're listening.

So for the latest details, follow the links in the episode description. Thanksgiving weekend is here, which means airports and highways are about to be packed. Yes, this is historically the busiest travel weekend of the entire year. And if you're flying Sunday after Thanksgiving, Godspeed, that day almost always breaks travel records for the busiest travel day to fly. You think we'll break another record this year, Sally? Well, you know, Megan, funny you say that because last week I was like, yes, definitely. We are still expecting records. Sirium just sent me some new data that overall Thanksgiving flight bookings are actually down

3.3% compared to last year. Now, just to back up a little bit, Syriam said that bookings were actually ahead of pace in late October, but then that government shutdown started at the end of the month, and since then, everything's just dip. Travelers might be feeling a little spooked about delays, or maybe they're just driving instead. Yes, and driving is a good point. So I do think there is still a really good chance we will see record numbers, but I do wonder if people are now driving versus flying. For example, AAA gave us some data that nearly 82 million

Americans will be traveling for Thanksgiving up more than a million from last year, but their data accounts for not just flyers, drivers as well. And then you look at AirDNA. They track data around vacation rentals. They are telling me that bookings are pacing above last year by get this, by about 8%. Okay. So it sounds like people are still going places, just maybe not flying there. Are you traveling for Thanksgiving, Megan? Well, as you know, going to another wedding. It's the Monday after Thanksgiving, so I'm going to avoid that whole mess. It's also international, so I'm not worried at all. Okay, okay. All right. So, yeah, you, the best way to avoid Thanksgiving travel is to travel, but internationally. Yeah, they do not have Thanksgiving in this country.

Okay. Amazing. Now, speaking of Thanksgiving, we have to talk about Black Friday deals. And as we talked about on last week's episode, Christmas seems to come sooner than ever. Black Friday seems to come sooner than ever. Tess and I already shared a bunch of Black Friday deals that we loved to see. I would recommend listeners visit nerd wallet.com. Our wonderful colleague Craig Joseph has been updating this list of Black Friday deals at this point. He has found more than 100 NerdWallet approved deals. We will post the link to those deals in the episode description. And there's so many different types of deals. There's airfare deals, cruise deals, hotel deals. So I think no matter what kind of travel you're looking to book, especially in the next year,

I think you might find something on that list. Anything you found, Megan? I don't know, man. I just got a new travel credit card. So I'm looking for the perfect thing to actually buy with my new credit card. You've got to hit that sign-it bonus. That's right. Maybe book a deal to hit it.

Now, moving on to some big news from Emirates, they have had a massive week of news this week. New planes, new partnerships, even new Wi-Fi. It feels like they are doubling down on pretty much. everything. Yeah, it's been like the airline version of Oprah. It's like you get a retrofit and you get faster internet and you get a code share. So let's start with Air Canada News. I love it. I love it. Everyone gets a Wi-Fi. All right. So first off in the news is that Emirates and Air Canada are extending their existing partnership now through 2032. That means more code share routes, which basically translates to smoother connections for travelers between Canada, the U.S., Dubai, and

beyond. Right. We should kind of explain what code share means for people who don't know. Basically, instead of having to book an Air Canada flight to maybe Vancouver to Hong Kong and then catch a Emirates flight from Hong Kong onto Dubai, now you could easily book that same itinerary. So you're technically still doing the Air Canada flight, but you can check bags all the way through. You're on the same ticket. It just makes it so much smoother rather than having to book two literally separate flights. Right. So next up, also ordered eight more Airbus A350s, which brings their total to 73. They already have 13 flying. So that just builds on that fleet of ultra long haul jets with premium economy

cabins. Yo, I love their premium economy cabins. I don't know if you know this, Megan, but they invited me to SFO to go on a tour of one of their planes because they were showing off these new cabins. And Megan, they are fabulous. They aren't quite lifelot. I mean, they're not fly flat. But they recline so much that I was like, I feel like I'm in my lazy boy in the living room. So comfy. I'm becoming a premium economy convert on international flights. I just took a premium economy seat on an international flight. And I was like, wow, this is like first class domestic. And it was like half the price, you know, of a business class or first class seat. So I really liked it. You know what? They have in real first class in Emirates.

What? They have not just showers. They have heated floors inside their bathrooms. I love the idea of a heated floor. It's just so cozy. Yeah. When they invited me for the tour, I was like, can I please stay on a flight? They're like, no, ma'am, you need to leave. Get off. Get off. We're boarding now. Take your photos for a nerd wallet and leave. True. Okay. But then you could send those photos over Wi-Fi. Is that the idea? All right, Megan. I see what you did there. And that ties into the next big piece of news from Emirates. That is that they are undergoing a massive retrofit program on many of their planes. Starting next year, they will upgrade 111 existing aircraft with brand new seats, 4K entertainment screens, and even Starlink satellite Wi-Fi. The Starlink part is wild. It's rolling out this month

on their Boeing 77s, and it's free high-speed internet for everyone on board so you can stream, you can video chat, you can even maybe game mid-flight. And I know United has Starlink as well on some flights. So our fellow writer, Ben, got to test it out, and he said it was super good. I saw he wrote in his article that the person next to him was playing World of Warcraft on the flight. I was like, great detail, Ben. I love that. So Emerit says that by mid-2020, and 777, and service will have it. That makes them world's largest Starlink-enabled international fleet. Okay, this is great. It sounds like we can work remotely from this big airplane. Honestly, it looks like better Wi-Fi than what I have in my house.

So I do think maybe we should just record our next podcast episode from the flight. What do you think? I don't know how Tess would feel about that. Bosses, let us do it. All right, Megan, time to move over to our better fancier studio where Elizabeth is waiting for us. Yes, this episode is a special episode that we've got on video. You can watch it on YouTube, on Spotify. Just search for NerdBullet, so you can see us in video form as well.

See you all there. Sort of. And now it's time to get to the fun stuff. So first off, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. And we want to get to know you and your financial self. So why don't you tell us what you're looking for in a credit card, what your family's like, what you're spending is, all that. Introduce yourself.

Okay. So I'm a fabulous single mama. I have one kid. He is seven. in terms of my lifestyle, I like to eat out sometimes because I have to cook often because I'm a mom. Otherwise, I would live off of cereal and peanut butter jelly sandwiches. So I also do do lots of grocery shopping multiple times a week sometimes. Could be more efficient with that. I like to travel. What else do I like to do? I like buying clothes.

Where do you live? Oh, I live in Houston. Okay. That's going to be important. Yes. And then the other thing I want to know is do you have any outstanding debt going on? No, I don't. Okay. A car loan. Okay. Yeah, with this show, we always talk about travel credit cards that have high interest. And so the cards that we typically talk about on the show are not for people who have credit card debt. So I'm glad to hear that is not you because we're going to be talking about cards with high annual fees, high interest rates. So I think let's actually get to that. I want to know what credit cards do you currently have in your wallet. All right. So I will start with my oldest card, which is the American Express Blue Cash Preferred. Got an annual fee on that. I also. recently got the American Express Platinum. I have the Chase Sapphire Reserve and then I have the City AAA Advantage card. And then I have a bonus one, the only one without a fee

the T.J. Max Marshall slash slash card. I got that one too. Shout out T.J. Max. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm just doing math in the head and you said you have one card with no annual fee and then you have a whole bunch of cards with many annual fees. So you mentioned the MX Blue Cash preferred. That is a less than $100 annual fee, but it is still something. And then you mentioned other cards that have many hundreds of dollars in annual fees.

The Chase Offer Reserve $795 annual fee. MX Platinum, as we just have been talking about on this show, annual fee increased to $895. So I'm quickly doing the math, and you are paying close to $2,000 in annual fees for your credit card. How does that make you feel? Well, when you say out loud like that, I mean, But honestly, it makes me feel, I feel like money is a tool, right? So in some ways, it's like, well, that's a lot of money to spend on fees. But I think if I'm getting a benefit out of it and it brings me joy and I can afford it, right?

Then, you know, why not? Everyone has what they're going to spend their money on. Yeah, and we are definitely not judging you. There are so many people who say I will not pay any annual fees for a credit card. And that is also completely okay. But you are talking to two people who also pay it. Probably $2,000. I think Megan pays more than $2,000.

an annual fee. So we are also not immune to annual fees on credit cards. I think it's just important to break down. Are you actually spending enough to not just justify the annual fee, but justify the opportunity cost of using another credit card that could give you similar benefits with no annual fee? When we brought you on this show, I was genuinely expecting to add another credit card to your wallet. But I'm kind of I don't think I need another one. I'm actually kind of thinking we should talk about, should we almost get rid of one of these credit cards? Well, that's what I've been thinking, especially since Chase increased their annual fee, I was like, oh, no, I'm getting rid of this card.

But then I saw there's an option to downgrade the card. So essentially, I'm on the fence. And that's why I'm here. So you guys can help me think through this so I can make an informed financial decision. Can you tell I work a nerd wallet? Yes, I love it. Okay, well, let's kind of go through the high level benefits, especially with these cards that have high annual fees.

we're not going to go over every single benefit on these cards because that would take two hours or more. But let's go through some of the top line benefits. So let's start with the Chase Affair Reserve since you've already alluded to maybe possibly wanting to dump this one. This card has a $795 annual fee. There is a $300 travel credit, which I personally find easy to use. Yeah. Yeah, I travel pretty often so I could use that. What about the lounges?

Oh, so see, that's what got me in this mess in the first place. I love the lounge. Okay. I'm a lounge girlie. I love a lounge. Okay. Same with Sally. Yeah, you are speaking to the right people. Let's see. TSA pre-check credit, $500 in annual credit, but this comes in two, twice a year, well, one twice a year credit, $250 each for the edit, which is their hotel booking portal.

Have you ever used that? I have not. Yeah, I actually find it kind of a pain to use myself. Have you ever used your chase points? So, since you asked, I have about 80, no, about 83,000. points. And I have not used any of them yet. Oh, you haven't used your point. That's good to know. Let's bring her back for the next show on how to spend your points.

Yeah. So you do have a ton of points. Other credits that are relatively new, twice a year dining credit, which is $150 two times a year. That's going to be easy to use because I like to eat. Well, it is fancy restaurants. You like fancy restaurants? When someone else is paying, sure. Or when you're paying. When you're paying. When you paid for the Chase. Let's see. Another new credit is. two $150 a year credits for Stubhub.

I do not use Stubhub. No concerts. You're not taking your seven-year-old to concerts? Oh, wait a second. See, thank you for saying that because I'm a concert lover. Actually, I've been to three already this year. I'm going to three more. But I never use Stubhub.

So I'm missing an opportunity there. Would you buy the tickets on Stubhub? Well, I'm going for the cheaper price. So it depends. You know, are their price is competitive? So that's something I'm going to go on half the other thing. I don't use Stubbhub. I think that's good advice, though.

Like, if there's something you're going to buy and you have an option between buying a cheaper one, not with a merchant that has a credit or buying the more expensive one with the credit. I think you have to weigh your options here and think about I would usually go with the cheaper one anyway. Exactly. And I feel like sometimes that's the lure or the cash because they're like, we're giving you a discount here, but I could get it cheaper somewhere else. There you go. Okay. And then so there's a bunch of other credits. We'll just kind of quickly go through. There's a $250 Apple TV credit. I don't know. Do you Apple TV? Sometimes. Okay. Sometimes. It's on the show.

$10 a month Peloton membership. No. Okay. Well, so, you know, kind of what you're already saying is $300 travel credit easy to use. You're saying $300 dining credit you feel like is easy to use. And then it sounds like the $300 stephub credit you would also. I could potentially use. So that's $900 right there. If we're talking about the annual fee is $795, you have at least justified this annual fee with those. And I didn't have to go through the whole list to do that. Right, right. And then, you know, I feel like. We haven't even talked about the value you can get from the points yet, which you haven't spent yet. But, I mean, that offers a lot of opportunity there as well. Yeah. And then, like, some of these silly credits, it's like maybe you wouldn't value Apple TV at $250,

but maybe you would value it at $20, in which case, yay, it's a little cherry on top. Okay, so I don't hate that. Should we talk about the Amex Platinum? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, so that one has an annual fee of $895, but we'll go through some of the credits. There's a $300 twice a year credit. So $300 at the first half of the year, $300, $300, second half of the year for their fine hotels and resorts, prepaid through American Express.

Do you ever book those hotels through American Express? I don't. And it's interesting. I mean, honestly, I don't say at hotels that many times a year. So sometimes when I travel,

I'm usually traveling to somewhere where I have family or friends and I end up staying with them, you know? So we probably don't say at hotels that much. I mean, the fact that you didn't use a Chase version of the credit, I'm not optimistic.

You use effectively the same version of the credit for AMX, just their service. Yeah. Okay, there's also a $200 airline fee credit. And so this isn't for like flights. This is for like baggage fees, fair change fees. Do you use something like that? Oh, I have a cute story for you about that. Oh, okay. Let's hear it. So my ex was like, hey, if you're traveling

with me, I don't check in bags. And I was like, wait, what? That changed my life because now I don't check in bags. So I learned to pack efficiently, so all I have to take is a carry on. And I will cry if you make me check in my bag. She's a candidate for a co-host on the show. I love the no carry-on life. Yeah. No, no check bag. It's a great life. There's no going back. Okay. Good. Well, you also have an airline credit card. So that also gives you some benefits that you wouldn't need this airline fee credit for. Okay. That makes sense. $15 monthly in Uber Cash. I'm going to let you guys take a cheeky guess on that. You're an Uber girl. I'm an overeat, so yes, I use that. Uber Eats. Yes. I like that. You can use Johnny Breeds. Nice. Okay. You already said you like dining and this one has a $100 quarterly Rezi credit. Very similar to the Chase dining credit, but it's Amex's version. You like that? Yeah, but you know what? I'm going to go after this and research what restaurants are under this resi credit and maybe some might jump out at me. Okay. There's also another $25 monthly digital entertainment credit. So that's like certain streaming services or subscriptions to news. Do you use any of those? Yeah, I think I have Netflix and I'm stealing everyone else's password for the rest.

Okay. Okay. So maybe not using it. Netflix. We don't endorse that on the smart travel show. Just kidding. You said you like shopping. Amix has some interesting shopping. credits. It has a $100 broken out into two $50 per year credits to Sacks Fifth Avenue. Thoughts? Oh, this one's a little expensive. I like, I like thrifting. And I like, you know, if it's obviously if it's good quality, I'm here for quality. Also, I feel like $50 is like a pair of socks. Exactly. It's really hard. I buy soap with it and I still go over $50. Okay. But thoughts, when Amex announced their new changes, their higher annual fee,

they also announced a new shopping benefit that I like. I'm curious your thoughts is $75. quarterly at Lulu Lemon. Now, I like that because I buy workout clothes to motivate me to work out. So if I have a cute outfit, I'm probably going to do it. If we're saying that you can use a $400 Rezi credit, you can use the $300 total for Lulu Lemon. Let's say you can use the $200 annually in Uber credits. That's $900 in value right there, which is what the annual fee is. So I do feel like we are at least breaking even on annual fees on these cards with kind of like just these benefits alone. I have a question for you all. How do you justify? Because I feel like a lot of my justification has centered around the lounges, right? Yes. So I am, I have a whole experience.

I am not the person who likes to get to my flight five minutes before. I get there two to three hours before. So I can get a drink, get a margarita, get a meal and relax. So I like the Centurion lounge. I went for the first time actually. The one in Houston? Yeah. Yes, the one in Houston. And I'll try the one in Arizona as well. But my point is, can I justify? I, hey, if I would have not had that lounge access and bought, I don't know, 10 meals, 10 times I traveled, right? You know, does that count? Do you guys think about it that way? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I also factor in the cost. So we said with these credits alone, we are already justifying the annual fee. But justifying is not good enough because you could also just use a card with a zero dollar annual fee.

So that's where we have to factor in these benefits that don't have a clear dollar value. And I think about something like a lounge, I'm not a big drinker. so I don't get like the alcohol value of the lounge, but I still get food. And so I would figure, I would probably buy a coffee at the airport, which let's face it, airport coffee is like $8. And then I'm going to get maybe a sandwich, which is 15. I don't know. And so, you know, for that, it's like, okay, let's say maybe I would value a lounge at $25.

If you're someone who would pay for two airport cocktails, which let's say that's $20 each, maybe you might value a lounge at $50. And so you do have to kind of do that calculation. yourself and then how often are you going to lounges? Yeah, how often do you fly? Like if, I'd say maybe like 10 times a year and sometimes I take my son to you. Oh, so you're valuing it at $50. It's like, okay, so is this $500 of value right there? And it is Harry Math, you know, would I just bring a PBNJ from home? You do have to, right? So you do have to actually factor in all this. And I am actually feeling like maybe it is worth keeping these cards because

you are actually justifying the annual fee on the statement credits. And then you're also able to go into the lounge, which is maybe $500 in value right there. And did you know that amex platinum gets you into Delta Sky Clubs as well? So, oh, I didn't know that. You could also hit up the Delta Sky Club next time you're at the airport if you have a Delta flight, of course. And you paid for it with this card. Okay, Elizabeth, I got bad news for you. We're like halfway three your cards, and it already seems like we got to keep both of them. Oh, man. Okay, let's go over that American Airlines card, though, that you had. I'm interested at it. Has a $99 annual fee. I think it's top benefit is the free check bags. And you just said you don't check bags.

No. Interesting. Okay. I am also very curious because you chose an American Airlines card and you fly out of Houston where I looked it up. There was only like 5% of flights that were American out of Houston. They're actually big United Hub. Have you found that to be a problem when you're looking for flights? Yes, now. So that has been a recent change. I was in Florida before and I didn't have as much of an issue with that. So I have been thinking, but I just have an affinity towards American right now because it was my first airline that I started air miles with, you know? So I just used to flying with them. I guess why do you have this card if the top benefit is checked bags? For the lounges. So I wanted access to all the American lounges, right? But you're probably only going to one lounge and if you have now. Exactly. You have Centurion Lounge Access and Chase Lounge Access and American Lounge. lounge access. Do you like the American lounges more than the Centurion Lounge? Well, now that I've been to the Centurion Lounge is no. So I'm like that that might be the weakest link. Okay. I agree. Okay. That's good to know. I think we'd recommend probably considering getting rid of that card. I agree. It seems like the least valuable in your wallet so far. Yeah, that cuts out $100 in annual fees right there. No, wait. It's not $100. It's not $100. It's like $500 or something. Oh, that's right.

We've got the one with lounge access. Oh, of course, of course. Okay. That's going to save you a ton of money. It is. Okay. Let's get rid of that card. But wait. So I have like 113,000 points on there. So do I need to use those points first?

Oh, that's a really good question. The great thing about airline cards is that your airline miles go straight into your airline loyalty account. So when you do downgrade or close that card, your miles will stay safe inside of your American Airlines account. And that is different from if you have more of a general travel card like your MX Platinum or your Chase Affir Reserve, if you close those cards and you don't. don't have, let's say, like, if you had a Chase Sapphire preferred and then you had a Chase Freedom Unlimited, your points would still stay there. But if you close a Chase Sapphire Reserve and you didn't have another Chase card, you would lose those points. So you have to move them before you close the card to another card that can hold them. Okay. Right. But that's not the case with

airlines. So I'm kind of tempted to close the American Airlines card. Yeah. And then you will still at least save the miles. Yeah. One more card that you have that has an annual fee, that would be the MX Blue Cash Preferred, which its annual fee is $0.00 intro offer for the first year, and then $95, which I am assuming you are now paying that. Yeah. And I have a little side quest about that. So earlier this year, when I was like, hey, girl, you might have too many cards. I had called them to cancel it. So I was like, do I really need this card? And then they learned me back in because they were like, well, how much you spend on groceries? And I was like, maybe quite a bit. And they were like, well, and then I didn't realize I wasn't using the card

right. Well, in terms of the maximizing the benefits, because I wasn't using that to buy all grocery. So I have started trying to do that to see if I can maximize the benefit. Okay. You got something called a retention offer. That's usually when the credit card company will try to make sure when you're thinking about canceling, they'll lure you right back with a really good offer. And it sounds like it was helpful because you were able to learn like, oh, how I can maximize my spending on this card. This one gets 6% cash back at U.S. supermarket. So that's really good. Six percent cashback is awesome. It is on only up to $6,000 per year. So I am curious, do you happen to know how much you spend on U.S.

supermarkets? Yeah, I would say around about $500 a month. Okay, interesting. The other thing that I do want to note about this card is it is U.S.

supermarkets. It is not groceries which drives me wild because I buy my groceries at Target and Costco, which are not U.S. supermarkets. So you do need to factor that in.

Well, are Kroger and H.E.B.? Yes. Okay, great. Those are supermarkets. Great, great. Okay, good. Okay, we're there. Yeah, you know,

I was going to say you might want to down grade to, there's a similar card called the Blue Cash Every Day, which has a zero dollar annual fee, and that one earns three percent back at U.S. supermarkets. But actually, what you're telling me is, I think this Amex rep is right, that you are still doing well because you spend so much on supermarkets. Yeah, I mean, you only have to spend about $1,600 at U.S. supermarkets, or they have another bonus category on streaming subscriptions, so that might be your Netflix. You're spending $5,000 a year. Then you're already making enough back in cashback.

to pay for the annual fee. So that might still work. About $6,000 annually in spending at supermarkets, you would basically be looking at $265 cash back on the blue cash preferred versus $180 on the blue cash every day. So you are kind of, I hate to say it, but you are really doing well with this card. Oh my God, on accident.

Didn't know. The seven-year-old child is eating alive. I would actually recommend, though, if we're going to recommend another card for you, I would recommend the United Airlines card to replace. your American Airlines card. And you could even get a cheaper version because we've now found out you've got the lounge access through the Amex Platinum.

So you don't need lounge access with your airline. So you could get a United card. The annual fees, $0 for the first year and then $150. Oh, it's more affordable. And yeah, you are able to earn United points plus, like, you get the free checked bags if you ever do need them. There's also two United Club passes per year. So that's like kind of easy to use and justify as well.

Yeah. And the final card you have, no shade to the T.J. Max credit card. it has zero dollar annual fee. I say keep it. Well, it's not doing anything to me, so it collects dust in my room. Yeah. Yes, and it is helping your average age of credit. I'm assuming you've had this card for a long time.

I have. Maybe about four years now? Yeah, yeah. So if you at least go to T.J. Max enough, then keep it open. I do, but it's a reminder to actually use it. I don't know. I just tend to not use it. You don't have to use it.

You could just keep it open, and you might find that the bank could see she never. uses it and they might choose to close it, which it is what it is. I don't think you need to worry about closing that one. So how are we feeling about all the cards that we have? Wow, surprisingly, you know, I thought it was going to be like, girl, you need to utilize this more and do that. But it sounds like, again, on accident, I'm utilizing my benefits. So, but I do think I am going to get rid of the American Airlines card.

Yeah, at least we get rid of one. It just doesn't have that many benefits that are useful for me. Yes. And my only other word of caution for you is we did justify the annual fees on these cards and then some. But you do have to just calculate the anxiety of managing all these benefits. I literally, because I am like you, both of us are like you, that we have all these cards with all of these bougie coupon book credits. And I have a document of it's called expiring things. And it's when all the statement credits expire. And I'm like, you know, end of the

month, did I use my Uber credit for every month? And then twice a year, did I use my stacks credit? and sometimes it's stressful and it'll be like mid-June and I'm like, what do I buy from sacks? Like, do I want this pair of socks or this pair of socks? Like, what do I do? And it's very stressful. And I do think it is completely okay to say my mental energy of managing whether or not I use my Uber credit is not worth paying this annual fee that I do think it is okay to not pay annual fees for these cards for your sanity. Yeah, I'm with you. And the nice thing about keeping track of it is then you have the data. Like, did I actually use my Uber credit every single month? If it turns out, you're like, you know, I actually didn't spend as much at restaurants as I thought I did, then you have the information. And then the next year, you can be like, you know what, I don't need to, I can downgrade this card.

I don't need to keep it. Yeah. We did it. I think we have a good strategy for you. At least close one of these cards. And I think maybe we'll have to bring you on again to talk about how to actually redeem all these points because you have so many high earning cards. And I think in addition to being an awesome host, you're also a mind reader because I was going to say the same thing. You got to follow up with me. You got to follow my journey.

Okay. And everyone can follow you over at the Smart Money podcast. That's right. So we're going to tell you guys how you can budget for all of these cards if you choose to have all of these cards if it's right for your financial situation and a whole bunch of other stuff too, whether that's mortgages, insurance, but you got to go and listen so you can hear what we talk about over there. And Elizabeth, since you host a personal finance podcast, how is your emergency fund going? Oh my gosh. I'm so sad to say it's very vanilla. It's in good shape. Very good, very good. Okay, time for the fun part of this show. This is what we call hot takeoffs. Now, usually Megan and I give a hot take, but because you are our guest, we invite you to share your hottest take in travel.

The one that comes to mind is that first class should have, do not disturb or do not talk to me, sign. Oh, I love that. One of my flights got upgraded to first class recently, so I'm celebrating because I got, you know. And I kid you not, this man spoke to me the inside. entire three hours on the flight. So it's not to tell the flight attendants to not talk to you. It's to tell the person next to you to not talk to. There needs to be a button assigned.

Don't talk to me. Look alone. Stop yapping. Wait. I love this. You ruined my upgrade experience because you would not be quiet. Okay. I agree.

Elizabeth. Why are we limiting this to first class? Every seat should have this. Yes. Okay. Yes. I love that. It's like a go button or not.

Don't talk to me. Talk to me. I love it. Yes. Also, did you know some first class seats have like private? to see doors now. So that is like a nice upgrade. When you get those kinds of seats, you just shut the door. I didn't know. Are we all don't talk to me on airplane people? Well, if you don't have social cues, then just don't talk at all, right? So I'd like a little chit chat here and there,

but the yap has to stop at some point. You got to know when to be quiet. Especially if it's a long flight. I'm like, oh no, did I start a conversation and now I have to talk for nine hours? This is awesome. Yes, okay, that's also awkward. I just want to point out the elephant in the room, we all talk for a living, and we're all saying don't talk to us on airplanes. Yeah, because I like to sleep. I'm trying to take a nap. Shh. Yeah.

Thank you so much for joining us on this show. Thank you. And make sure to follow smart travel on your favorite podcast app. That includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and IHeartRadio. You can automatically download new episodes when you do that. And if you are listening on Spotify, you can drop a comment right on the app. This episode was produced by Tess Biglin and edited by Nick Kirstmi, Claire Sosie, and Hillary Georgie helped with fact-checking. And thank you to our studios, Eden visuals. And here's our

brief disclaimer. We are not financial or investment advisors. This info is provided for general, educational, and entertainment purposes. It may not apply to your specific circumstances. We hope you're inspired to keep your passport full and your wallet even fuller. See you next time.