NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - How Can You Make Sure You Get Paid On Time? Introducing "Working Overtime" from Slate

Episode Date: July 4, 2024

As a freelancer or gig worker, how can you make sure you get paid on time? In this special presentation of Working from Slate Podcasts, hosts Ronald Young Jr. and June Thomas talk money, finances, and getting paid as a freelancer in a tough economy. They recount their own frustrating experiences with not getting paid on time and offer tips on how avoid those situations. Listen to Working wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at https://slate.com/podcasts/working

Who doesn't love a payday? It's like finding money in your old jeans, but better. But getting paid on time, that can be a real treasure hunt. And if you've ever worked as a freelancer, then you know that sometimes trying to get paid feels like searching for buried treasure without a map. So today, you're going to learn tips for how to get paid on time with some help from another podcast. We're excited to present an episode of Working, Slate's podcast about how creative professionals get stuff done. I think you're really going to love it. The show is hosted by June Thomas, Isaac Butler, and Ronald Young Jr.

Every Sunday, they interview creative people about their work and learn along with listeners about things like how writers outline novels, how composers get jobs and get paid, and how YouTube creators learn to look into the camera lens. And you'll hear from fun guests like TV host Carla Hall from Top Chef, and sound designer Johnny Byrne, who worked on the films Poor Things and Nope. Today's episode comes from an ongoing series they release every Tuesday called Working Overtime. Since we know you listen to smart money for financial insights and ideas, we're sharing an episode from that series that will help you up your finance game, especially if you're a creative, freelancer, or business owner working with clients.

We'll include links to follow working in today's show notes, and we'll be back next week withvertime, our bi-weekly advice-focused episode. I'm your host, Ronald Young Jr. And I'm your other host, June Thomas. So, Ronald, what are we talking about today? Well, June, as you've probably read or noticed, in the news media and entertainment industry, we've been having a bit of a struggle recently. I've noticed that in a time of shrinking budgets and layoffs, there's a lot more people going the freelance route. And for a lot of audio producers, there aren't really a ton of full-time jobs. I've been freelancing in audio production since 2020,

and it seems like lately I've heard from colleagues that getting some organizations to pay on time has been a bit of a struggle. Have you had any trouble getting paid as a freelancer? I've never had serious delays or, you know, worse not getting paid, but I've certainly had to jump through some weird hoops in order to get paid. I have dealt with organizations that had processes that were the equivalent of like, send an invoice on the third Thursday of the month, or if there's an hour in the month on the fourth Tuesday, and make sure that the invoice is in pages rather than word, or that will cause a delay. And like, things where you just got the sense that the organization's first priority was not cutting a check for freelancers. I love that you said that. I really hate that portion. I used to do a lot of what are called tape syncs, which are kind of remote recordings. And I'd be talking

to someone and next thing you know, they got to onboard me into a system. And I mean, we're talking about an amount of like $285, $300 or less. And they're like, we got to get you into the system and it's going to take 45 days. And typically for most organizations that I've done work with, there's no real issue with getting paid. We're talking the net 30 day industry standard. But a few times I've come against those very difficult organizations that push those deadlines to the limits. I'm talking payment on the 30th day or sometimes the 31st, 32nd, or even recently it was like the 60th day and beyond. And those times are not easy for a freelancer.

June, with the unpredictability of a freelance paycheck, do you have a strategy for managing your finances in a way that stretches your money in between paydays? So over the course of my career, I've spent maybe seven or so years as a full-time freelancer. And throughout that period, I've been lucky enough to have an anchor job. That is to say, a regular gig that might not necessarily have been the most glamorous or sometimes fun, but that was regular. And cobbling together enough of those to cover expenses makes pitching for more ambitious but riskier gigs possible. There's a great episode of Working Overtime from November 30th, 2023, called The Benefits of Anchor Jobs that I really recommend for anyone who's interested. I am also constitutionally one of those people who weirdly loves to manage their money. I always know exactly

how much I have in my accounts and how much is due and when it's due. I find that really fun. I even enjoy, actually love doing my taxes, but it's a great benefit to enjoy that kind of money management because it is extra important when you don't have a regular paycheck going into your bank account every two weeks or whatever. I have to admit that there have been some big bills that I just couldn't pay on time. If anyone from any of my dentist offices are listening, they'll know what I'm talking about. But I've been fortunate enough that when I have said to them, look, I'm sorry, it's going to be another month before I can pay that bill or could I pay in installments? They've always accommodated me. The more you can

be upfront with that kind of request rather than just not paying a bill, the better. But obviously that doesn't work with, say, your internet provider. You just have to pay that thing on time. Yeah. And I think that's what gets me sometimes is that we have debtors as well that we have to pay as freelancers, but we are a debtor to these organizations and they just don't treat us with that same urgency, which is very frustrating for me. And I've been gracious enough to have people that I've owed money that have been more than willing to give me time that I needed to pay them back, whether it be borrowing money from friends or family, or it'd be even something that's more formal, like working with a recording studio or whatever, if they know that I'm consistent, I'm going to come back or I've had a record of paying on time consistently for a while and something changed, typically they're going to have that conversation with me and say, hey, take your time. We know you're a good client. And I think being a good client, being a good steward is kind of what gives you that leeway. So it's not always easy. And you're

right. You can't do it with your cell phone provider, your internet provider, any of those places. But there are ways that you can kind of work that out. But I think what frustrates me is I just sometimes just don't think we should have to have those conversations. We should just be able to have our money on time from the people that said they were going to give it to us. It is awfully difficult to argue with that proposition, Ronald. Okay, we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk more about money and finances and strategizing your life when it comes to freelancing. Hey, listeners, do you have any tips or questions about the creative process? Get in touch, share your advice, share your questions. You can email us at working

at slate.com or even better. You can call us and leave a message at 304-933-9675. That's 304-933-WORK. You can also leave a voice message at working at slate.com. We are back and we're still talking about getting paid as freelancers in a tough economy. June, one thing I've started thinking about a lot are contracts and payment frequencies up front. Yeah. Like before I even decide to take a contract, I want to know how frequently I'll be paid and how quickly their accounts payable department turns around an invoice. I've also been less shy about asking for a larger

percentage of money upfront for work I'll be doing. As an audio producer, this ask can be tricky at times because the work hasn't started or isn't complete, but it's less trickier than struggling to pay bills. What do you think, June? Do you recommend four against these types of conversations during the negotiation period of a freelance contract? Well, I absolutely recommend having those conversations. I should say that in addition to having of a freelance contract? Well, I absolutely recommend having those conversations. I should say that in addition to having been a freelancer, I've also had a couple of positions where I was responsible for getting people paid.

I wasn't writing the checks, but I was the person who needed to make sure that all the paperwork was in place and submitting the invoices to be paid. That's the Lord's work, Jim. Yeah, I know it. I know it. And that has taught me that in all but the tiniest organizations, there's a system.

And payment systems usually almost always can't be gotten around. They're set up the way they are to comply with the law, the needs of the organization, their cash flow, all of that. So it's extremely difficult to negotiate a special exception, but I do think it is absolutely essential to find out as much as you can about how the system works before you get into any problems. Right when you start, you say, when you're negotiating that contract, find out as much as you can. Like, how quickly will I be paid? What's the invoicing process? Do I need to get set up to use some special software? What's the typical timeline?

All of those questions. If you can't change the system, you can at least be sure you understand what's required of you and know what you have to do and when so that you can be paid. You do not want to give anybody any excuses for not getting that check to you. I absolutely agree. I try to stay on top of that stuff as soon as I get into a gig. What do you need? Do you need a W-9? Do you need a drop of blood? What do you need in order to make sure that I get paid? Thumb scan, whatever I have to give you, I'm going to make sure I give you. And I think one of the reasons I get so fired up about this is because a lot of the times as a freelancer, I'm working with people who are on the regular payroll, full-time employees who are collecting a check every two weeks. I remember

what that was like. It was easier to plan your life generally. There was no anticipated end of the road when it came to cashflow. Now, of course, anybody can be fired. Anybody can be laid off. But the difference between contract work and full-time employment is that with a contract, you're constantly knowing when the end is coming. And you kind of have to be thinking about what's next and how you're managing your life. But every now and then, there's a full-time employee between me and a check. And I have to say, I want them to be thinking about that in a more meaningful way. Absolutely. As I said, I've been on both sides of this. And the last time I was in a full-time job where making sure people got paid was one of my responsibilities, it came right after I'd been

freelancing. And during that period, sometimes I was not getting the kind of response I think everyone deserves. My invoices weren't getting paid on time and I wasn't really being told why. My emails weren't getting answered and that did not feel good. It made me very concerned. It did not allow me to do my best work. So I was really determined that other people wouldn't have to put up with that. In real life, because I'd just been through it, I understood the urgency and the importance. I will say one thing I've noticed of late is that more and more places are setting up systems where there isn't really a middle person. Like you're interacting with software rather than humans. At the New York Times or Bloomberg, for example,

you get set up with access to a payment system. You submit your invoice and then you wait. Slate has something sort of in between where in the software, you alert a staffer who approves your invoice. That kind of system avoids the, did this person even get my email kind of open loops, which can be very frustrating. So I feel like that's a positive step. Yeah, I think that's a little bit better. I think anything, I've been in situations where someone has left, someone has gone on vacation, or the entire office has closed for the holidays. There was a couple of times this happened during Christmas where the office closed for the holiday on something like the 19th or the 20th. And I was just out of luck until January. And I remember

thinking at the time, y'all are enjoying your time with your families. Y'all are buying Christmas gifts, all that stuff. And I'm sitting here like stressed, frustrated, being like, am I going to make it? The only chance that I have is that all the people that are collecting bills at that time are also off with their families doing their thing. So I really love the idea of using payment systems. Any chance that we can kind of like account for human error or being overlooked. Yeah. We'll be back with some final thoughts about freelancing and payments after this. Listeners, I have a recommendation for you.

If you are enjoying working overtime, please subscribe so that you never miss an episode. If you listen on Apple Podcasts, we would love you to rate or review the show. It really does help new listeners to find us. And if Overcast is your app of choice, as it is mine, please hit the star to recommend the episode to others. Here on Working, we talk a lot about the creative process, but in my everyday life, I'm often thinking about the logistics of living from day to day. And honestly, those logistics are what make my creative process possible. So while a lot of conversations about money are often discouraged, I feel like we need to be talking more about what it takes to be creative and live well. For me, knowing what my colleagues are doing and how they strategize those financial logistics helps me to understand the ways I could be managing myself and advocating for myself in negotiations in a way that gives me peace and the ability to be creative without being

stressed about the rent. Do you have any last thoughts, June? Oh my God, that last point is really crucial. Getting paid for the work that you have done on a reliable timeline is such a basic right. This isn't something that should consume energy and brain cells because all that stress and agitation creates the opposite of the conditions that are required for good creative work. So yes, yes, yes. I think just generally, you know, stay organized, do whatever's required for the billing system so that you can do your work well and let your friends and colleagues know when an organization isn't

treating its freelancers well. Ooh, I love doing that. I love, I love snitching, especially to friends be like, you want to work for so-and-so? I don't know. They don't pay. They paid me on the 60th day. I don't know if that's a thing. You don't know how many times you've helped a colleague just by doing that. And listeners, if you are a freelancer who is having a real struggle to get paid for work that you've done, it's worth reaching out to the Freelancers Union. They have done a lot of work on lobbying to get the

freelance isn't free legislation passed in some states. If you're really struggling to get money that you're due, it's worth reaching out to the Freelancers Union. In a pinch, they can help you. And also, if you need resources, especially if you're working in audio, you can go to airmedia.org, which is the Association of Independents in Radio. And they have an abundance of resources for freelancers, including how to negotiate contracts, what your fare rate should be, just all kinds of things that you need

if you're out there, especially as an independent. So definitely check that out. Again, that's airmedia.org. That's all the time we have for this episode, but let me leave you with one last piece of advice. I think you should subscribe to working wherever you get your podcasts. And if you have ideas for things we could do better or questions you'd like us to address, we'd love to hear from you. You could send us an email at working at slate.com or give us a ring at 304-933-WORK.

That's 304-933-9675. And if you'd like to support what we do, sign up for Slate Plus at slate.com slash working plus. You'll get bonus content, including exclusive episodes of Slow Burn and Decoder Ring, and you'll be supporting the work we do right here on Working. Thanks, as always, to Working Overtime's producer, Kevin Bendis, and to our series producer, Cameron Drews.

We'll be back on Sunday with a brand new episode of Working, and in two weeks, we'll have another Working Overtime. Until then, get back to work. Thank you.