NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - How to Balance Competing Financial Priorities When Everything Feels Urgent

Episode Date: August 17, 2026

Learn how to save for a home, pursue FIRE, and quiet money anxiety when every goal feels urgent at once. What does it really take to balance saving for a first home, building toward early retirement, and spending without guilt — when every goal feels like it needs to come first? Hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola sit down with listener Hana from Portland, a super-saver putting away over $4,000 a month who still worries she's falling short. They dig into how much she actually needs for a down payment and closing costs, what makes a home a money pit rather than a sound investment, how to prioritize competing goals like the HSA, 401(k), Roth IRA, and house fund, and what it really takes to hit FIRE in 15–20 years — plus the money anxiety that makes even high savers second-guess every dollar they spend on fun. See how far your homebuying budget could take you with NerdWallet’s free home affordability calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/calculators/how-much-house-can-i-afford  Buying a home? Estimate the closing costs for a house of any value with this calculator: https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/calculators/closing-costs  Mortgage Closing Costs: How Much You’ll Pay https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/learn/closing-costs-mortgage-fees-explained  First-Time Home Buyer Loans and Programs: A Beginner’s Guide https://www.nerdwallet.com/mortgages/learn/programs-help-first-time-homebuyers  Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header Smart Money’s YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@nerdwalletsmartmoney To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. *The show notes were created with the assistance of AI. They have been reviewed by our editorial team for accuracy and quality. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

How do you save for a house next year, retirement in maybe 20 years, and still have enough money left over to have fun? That's one of the challenges faced by our listener today named Hannah. She's saving around $4,000 a month, but still feels like she's falling short. Let's get into how she can hit all three goals. We are in the beautiful Portland, Oregon, and we have Hannah here with us today, and she wants to talk about how to buy a house next year, how to retire in maybe 20 years. years and also financial anxiety. Welcome to Smart Money, Hannah. Yeah, of course, happy to be here. You live in the Portland area. Tell us what your favorite thing to do around Portland is because there's so much to take in in this area. Yeah, I love hiking and Portland's really enough for

outdoor rock climbing, so usually drive out to some boulders and go boulder around there. So very exciting. That is exciting. Also slightly scary. How do you stay safe when you're bouldering? There's like crash pads and like safety harnesses and wires and stuff. So you're a thrill seeker like Elizabeth here. I was just about to say, sounds like a fellow adrenaline junkie. Yes, definitely like being outdoors. And how long have you been in Portland? I've been in Portland now for this is going to be two years. Okay. And you're from the East Coast originally. Yeah, I'm from Virginia originally. And I know that because you are the sister of the host of our sister podcast. Megan Coyle, who's the host of the Smart Travel podcast, is your sister. Yes, that's crazy. Yeah, she's also on the

West Coast now. So we've all kind of migrated over to the West Coast. Well, thank you for coming on Smart Money today. Of course. Okay. So we're going to start with a little icebreaker. We have done the first half of the year. So of course, I must ask you in Elizabeth fashion, what is one financial goal that you are really proud of this year that maybe you've hit or a milestone? A financial goal that I've hit this year is hitting like 200k in net worth. Oh, congratulations. And how old are you? I'm going to be 24 this year. Okay. That's a massive accomplishment by 24. So you're 23 currently and you have 200k in net worth. I've been lucky to have good saving, have a supportive family, that sort of stuff. And I'm hit 200K, so just keep

working towards that. And is that primarily in investment accounts, retirement accounts? It's like split up between two, so half retirement, half just cash. It is kind of uncommon to be 23. I was not 23 with any savings, actually, and to have that much savings. So at what age did you start to learn about finances and saving money? My sister started working at Nerdwell and in 2020, 2019. And she was like, Hannah, you should listen to this podcast. And I was like, okay, sure, I'll do that. And then they were just talking about, like, you know, basic financial goals and that sort of stuff.

So that's how I kind of got into, like, financial literacy. I've been definitely working towards saving. And it's been a steady progress since, like, you know, it takes time to save and build good habits. So, like, Nerd Wallet's podcast has been a great help and learning all about it has been really important to me. Well, Hannah, I want to hear about your financial and work life. What do you do for work?

How much money you bring in? How much are you able to save? I work as an engineer out in Hillsborough, so basically working on like computer stuff. I think right now I make about 103K annually, so after taxes in 401Ks comes about out to be about like 3,000 a month, so not too much. And what type of engineer are you? I work as like a computer engineer, and so just doing a lot of coding, a lot of model running and seeing like, for example, semiconductors, seeing how if they work properly and if they have all the correct data paths in them. Okay, so I imagine that requires a lot of very technical thinking and computer. Yeah, definitely a lot of time on the computer.

Yeah. A lot of time like looking at models, looking at different components and seeing how best they work with each other. Do you find that this way of thinking in terms of your work translates to how you manage your finances? Yeah, I'm super organized in terms of how I manage my finances. I have a budget spreadsheet and I feel like it's good to allocate stuff, but I actually don't do like the auto budgeting where you dump all your stuff into different buckets. I kind of play it by ear based on how my spending is. So, Hannah, tell us a bit about what your financial goals are right now. You have this wonderful savings already.

You have a well-paid job. What are some of your near and then maybe medium-term goals? My short-term goals are to buy a house in the next two to three years. I feel like I've been saving up steadily for like a down payment the last two years since getting out of college. So that's been important to me. And then like in 20 years or 25 years, I think it could be great to do fire or do Coast Fire just like work on towards early retirement.

My partners, like parents are doing Coast Fire. So I think it's really cool that they've been able to do that. And I feel like I can see a potential where I could do that as well. Coast fire is a little different from traditional fire because essentially you are saving as much as you can up front in order to fund your retirement. And then the idea is that you coast once you hit the number that you're trying to achieve. And unlike typical fire or rather traditional fire, you don't stop working. You still work, but you just stop putting all that money towards retirement savings. So you can put it towards living or traveling or renovating your house, anything you want really.

You're basically front-loading your retirement savings. That's right. Okay, so, Hannah, you want to buy a house? Are you thinking of buying one in the Portland area? More out into suburbs, definitely closer to work because it worked like 20 miles out from Portland. So I think house prices are actually, like, more expensive out into suburbs than they are in Portland. And so have you looked at different houses and what you might need to buy or what the price range is? Yeah, I think the price range in terms of what I would like is around like 500 to 600K. One of the goals that I have is like having a garden and having like space to do my hobbies and that sort of stuff. Don't have gardens, which you know because you listen.

And then how did you determine how much house that you could afford? We have a calculator on nerd wallet for those who don't know that can help. But what did you use? I definitely used a nerd wallet calculator. Should just, like, get a baseline on what sort of house and what sort of mortgage payment I want. Then also looking at, like, my rent payment right now and seeing how it fits into my lifestyle and if I can adjust that. And so I think a big challenge is definitely adjusting to the mindset of that you're going to pay more for your mortgage, but you're also investing in yourself. And then how far away, Hannah, are you from your goal?

Since you have an idea of how much house you can afford, do you have an idea of how much your down payment needs to be? Probably about 20%. I think 15% would probably be more likely for me because I want to have a bigger emergency fund, you know, for repairs and like home gardening and that sort of stuff. And so I think I'm about like 80% there right now. Like I have a little tigie bank chart on my fridge, which I fill out for each like a thousand I save. So I'm clearly filling that out. You wrote to us instead that you're not sure if you'll be able to buy. the house next year, but 80% sounds pretty close. So what do you think is getting in the way of you

achieving this goal next year? I feel like a lot of life stuff comes up. Like I've been going to weddings, I've been celebrating friends, you know, I've been going on travel. And so like the $1,600,000, you're saving each month that go towards travel or go towards wedding or go towards order of funds. So I'm thinking about how best to balance all of that, you know, saving for the house and also making sure to celebrate all the people in my life. We talk about that balance a lot in terms of like, you know, planning and getting toward your long-term goals, but still enjoying today, too. And it seems like you're doing a good job at that, even though you might not be able to buy a house maybe, like, within the next nine to 12 months, if you buy a house within two years,

you'll still be 25 years old and a homeowner. And that's a huge accomplishment. So even though, you know, you have this idea of when you want to buy a house, I think that it might not be the worst thing if you don't get it as quickly as you're maybe currently planning on it. Because, again, And like you said, you'll be able to save more money by renting currently. How do you feel about that balance? Do you feel like pressure to get a house sooner or are you actually okay, kind of balancing, enjoying today and saving for tomorrow? It was like a certain amount of pressure that I put in myself to like get that first house

and like start building home. I don't love living in apartments in terms of space in terms of parking, that sort of stuff. Yeah. I mean, I live in a great apartment, but I definitely love being in like a single family house better. But I do understand that, you know, it takes time to find out. house that you would truly feel comfortable in. So I'm okay with not being able to hit that like one year next year buying a house. But definitely want to get towards buying a house in like a next two to three years. What's driving that pressure? I know I personally have financial goals. And yeah,

sometimes it's just I have an unrealistic expectation of myself, right? Or sometimes it's pressure like what my peers are doing this. So I should be at this place too. So what's driving the pressure to have that home next year? I've moved a lot for work for internships and that sort of stuff. I moved to California, I moved to Kentucky, moved Indiana. And so it would be nice to have, like, a permanent residence which I could really decorate and do my hobbies in. And then also I feel like buying a house, like all that money is good. But once I buy that first house, I can definitely, like, allocate more towards fire.

And that's definitely a goal I want to work towards as well. Hannah, would you consider actually putting less down on your house so you could buy a house sooner? Or do you really want to have a larger down payment so that your monthly payment is lower? I try to have a larger monthly down payment. I'm in my lease right now for another year. Okay. Yeah. So you're kind of locked in.

When has your lease up? I think it's July next year. Okay. Oh, that makes sense. So is that kind of why you wanted to buy so you don't have to renew your lease again? Yeah, I think that's definitely one of my goals. I think definitely having been in apartments for a long time, I think it's good to switch it up. I know that traditionally we've been asked to put 20% down.

I'm sure you already know this because you're very smart. But you definitely can put anywhere from 3% to 6% or less down. I know some people want to avoid a PMI. as well, which is why they try to hit that 20%. But again, if 20% is your goal, nothing wrong with that. It just might mean you have to save for a little bit longer. When I bought my house, I put down as little as possible

because I didn't have a bunch of cash and it just made it so I could get into a house sooner. I did have private mortgage insurance, PMI, and I really hated it. So I was very fortunate that my house accrued value and once I hit a certain threshold, I was able to tell my lender to drop it, which was nice.

Depending on your goals and your timeline, and it's not the worst thing to put less down, but like you said, you will have a higher monthly payment as a result. One thing I'm worried about, like, I feel like I budgeted for the 20% okay, but then I think I haven't really allocated like enough money or time or thought. So like the closing cost. Yes. And I was like looking at houses, I was like, wow, it has a lot of money for closing costs as well,

especially like, you know, like a 500K or a 600K house. So I were just trying to figure out how to budget that and also save that much money that I need for like a bigger house. Yeah, that's such an important point. that you bring up because sometimes people focus so much on just saving for the down payment that they forget about the closing costs. You mentioned earlier an emergency fund and also just having enough for a living and house repairs and things like that. So it's usually recommended that you save between 2 to 5% for closing costs and that's separate than what you're saving for the down payment, which could mean that you end up saving for a little bit longer.

One of your challenges right now, Hannah, is that you have these numbers that you're thinking about, but it's still a little bit nebulous in some ways. It's not super concrete because you don't have a house that you're looking at or a potential mortgage right in front of you. I'm thinking that you might actually really benefit from sitting down with a mortgage broker and talking through your situation and your goals in your timeline. They'll probably say, wow, you are way ahead of the curve a year out from when you want to buy, but they would be able to kind of put together what it might look like theoretically based on general home prices in your area and what your income is, your credit score, all of that. So that way you can actually get a feel for what closing

costs might be like right now, and then you can begin to plan accordingly. I haven't talked to any mortgage brokers yet, but definitely haven't been opening any credit cards. I don't want to wreck my credit score for that. And then also just one more thing on the closing costs, what exactly are you confused about what they are or just how much you should save? How much I should save? Like, I feel like a general guideline is like 6%. I've been working towards that, but I feel like there's even more closing cost that might just pop up based on Oregon and based on like the housing marking in general. like if I want to get a realtor, that sort of stuff. So looking at that is something I need to do as well.

Yeah. And for people who are risk-averse, so you don't want to end up with surprise bills, it's always a good idea to save more. That's never going to hurt you. So if you know that you feel uneasy about maybe the 2 to 5%, then yeah, maybe you go for 6 to 7% so that you don't end up house poor or just with a very low bank account after buying a house. Yeah, definitely.

And Hana, you also mentioned to us that you have other financial goals besides home buying around investing in which accounts a priority. You can talk with us about how you're currently saving and what questions you might have around where you want to invest. Basically, I've been following the flow of maxing out my 401k, maxing out my ESPP, which is like a stock purchase program. So that about 15% of my paycheck goes into that. And then in the beginning of the year, I max out my raw fire array. And so I guess that would get split up along all the pay periods that we have. After that, I'm kind of confused on like saving for the house, but also like should I put the money into individual brokerage accounts as well to like go towards fire.

That is such a good point because when you are retiring early, you can't tap into those accounts depending on whether they're Roth or not and all these other rules. So it is good to have a brokerage account where you can pull money from until those accounts kick in. But one thing I want to say, Hanah, is you don't have to do everything at once. You're doing a wonderful job already. And sometimes it's about having financial priorities, if that makes sense. So you're doing your 401k, you're doing your IRA. You also want to max out your HSA. You also want to save for a house. And it can be a little bit overwhelming. So I think you mentioned earlier the idea of redirecting funds. It might be that once you're done saving for this house, that you can redirect funds into one of those other

financial goals. Or you can split up your savings into each of those goals, but it just means it might take a little longer to achieve them all. Yeah, I feel like I'm funneling like 100% of my money after tax that doesn't go towards needs or wants into a house account. So I feel like I should be splitting that up a little bit more evenly. Like I want to save for a trip to Japan. I want to save for like a to like my sister's wedding, that sort of stuff. And it definitely needs to balance like all those different sticking funds we have. Hana, I'm curious about your ESPP. So this is a program where you can essentially buy your company's stock.

Why are you putting 15% of your income into that? Tell me about your thinking in your plan there. Yeah, for the ESP, I feel like it's a really valuable savings tool, saving vehicle for like what I'm working towards. Basically get a 15% discount on the stock that you're purchasing. So even though the money's locked up for six months, you definitely get a tax back and you get extra cash back once that's in. So I think that's really valuable.

And I think that even though there's no lookback program for the stock purchase program that I'm in, I think it's important because that money is filtered away from me. I don't see it and I can't spend it. One word of caution I have with that is since you are working for this company, you're investing a lot of your time in the company. Look at your other investments too and consider how much your stock in this company compares to your other investments because it can be really easy sometimes when you're in an ESPP or you're buying much of your company stock because you're giving grants of it,

however you're acquiring it, to almost be over-invested in a single company because of how much, again, time and also money you're spending, acquiring these stocks. So just look at those and see how it balances out because you actually might be able to diversify your investments in a more strategic way if you're putting some of that 15% into a taxable brokerage account or some other avenue for investment. Of course, I have to have a side story, but someone I know, got that advice and I'm not saying don't listen to Sean and they didn't listen to their financial advisor who told them not to diversify and then they became a millionaire and retired early.

I'm just saying so I'm not saying because they had all their company stock? Yes. Okay. Okay. So obviously do what works best for you, but Sean is right to you. You don't want to overexpose yourself to one or increase your risk by being too heavily invested in your company. I'm actually doing quick sale for the ESP.

Okay. So I'm not actually holding the stock. It's just getting sold immediately after. So I at least get the 15%. Okay, nice. After tax, it's probably like more like eight or seven percent. Got it. But I think it's better than like a high yield savings account.

It just locked up for six months. That's super savvy. I like that idea. Okay. And then with the money that you're getting from selling these stocks, is that going into your house fund or your taxable account? What are you doing with that? I'm just putting it all into my house fund. I also make sure that the small travel fund I have, like a little bit of money goes into that just for, you know,

trips to go home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. So a little bit of that money goes into there. but most of the majority of it goes into the house fun. Now, this is not a budget rehab, but you did do us the honors of sending us your budget. Something I noticed about your budget, Hana, is your split and how high your savings rate is. So I know that you mentioned earlier feeling like you're saving a lot and you don't necessarily have enough money to go towards living. So based on what you sent us, 23% of your budget is going to needs, 12% is going to wants, and 65% is going to savings. which is extremely high, and which also tracks with your goal of retiring early.

But it sounds like you're saying that you feel like you're not having enough money to enjoy your life. Is that correct or to do the things that you want to do? I feel like I'm not allocating enough fun money for me to, like, go out to eat in Portland, which has great food or, like, go hiking or that sort of stuff. Like, I have a fun money, like, bucket in my monthly budget for, like, use in that sort of stuff. But I feel like I either overspend it or don't spend it at all. I either need to decrease my 401 contribution rate or decrease the amount of money I'm putting towards my house fund. But I'm not sure if that's a good idea. Girl, are we the same person?

Because I struggle with that too sometimes. I'm not going to lie. I also would like to retire early. I have a relatively high savings rate. My fund money bucket sometimes is way too small and unrealistic because I love to treat myself. So I either end up like you overspending. But then I'm like, I don't want to reduce my savings rate. But then it's like, well, what do I do?

Right. And I think part of it for me is just that pressure again to feel like I need to retire early. I need to save as much as I can, but then sometimes I have to step back and ask myself, the same thing we ask you, well, what happens if your goal is delayed by a year and you enjoy a bit of your money now and live your life? So what do you think it would take for you to consider maybe increasing? Because you have a 65 percent. We usually recommend 50, 30, 20.

So we recommend people save 20 percent of their income. You're saving 65 percent. So what if you maybe increased it from 12 percent to 14? Or, you know, how would you feel about that? I feel like that would be okay. It's definitely good to like enjoy life while you're also saving. Work is work and it's definitely hard and challenging. And so it's good to enjoy life outside of work as well.

You mentioned that you're not sure whether you should pull back on your 401K contributions or your house fund. Given your age and how much we know compound interest is really on your side and time is on your side, I think that you could get more out of continuing to contribute to your 401K and maybe pulling a bit back from the house fund and then using that money for your fun account. Just given that you already have a lot of cash. on hand, you could probably buy a house this year if you really wanted to, but of course you'd have that smaller down payment and the higher monthly cost, which we already discussed. So just given where you currently are, you have a lot of options ahead of you. But I do want to ensure that you are on track for your potential early retirement and maxing out that 401k contribution is going

to do one of your best bets there. One thing underlying a lot of the questions we've been talking about so far is what you mentioned around your financial anxiety and how you try to balance you enjoying today, saving for tomorrow and, you know, having the right kind of down payment for the monthly payment that you want. Can you talk with us a little more about your financial anxiety and how it kind of directs what you do or don't do with your money? You know, social media and like comparison and like all of these financial influencers are great for promoting financial literacy, but it causes a lot of comparison. And like if you spend too much money on like eating out or spend too much money on clothes or travel, you feel like, oh, like these influencers wouldn't do it, so I shouldn't do it either.

And so I feel like there's a lot of anxiety towards that and a lot of comparison, like, just what people are doing in life. You know, my family's like super, super cool and I want to be as cool as dumb. That's so sweet. You're already cool. You're doing amazing things. You're bouldering around Oregon and you have this amazing job and you're saving a lot of money. Like, that's very, very cool. So I think comparison is often the thief of joy.

And so just, like, putting that phone away and realizing that as much as people are presenting a certain image on social media as financial influencers or whatever, you don't. you don't really know what's going on with their lives or their finances. A lot of what they're putting out there could be complete fabrication. So you know what you are doing with your money. And just focus on that. I think that can help alleviate some of the comparison and the anxiety that's causing in you. Yeah. And even sometimes if it's not fabrication, something I've had to learn is everyone's journey's different.

And your journey could change at the blink of a eye. You could go and play the lottery tomorrow and become a millionaire and retire before we all do. Anything can happen in life. And I think another thing that helps me because I think most people struggle, with comparison, whether it's online or in real life, is, yeah, I minimize the amount of time I spend online. And I have a friend who, she was at a point in life where she was trying to get pregnant and she couldn't, just having some fertility challenges. And I remember her saying, I'm going to take a break from following certain influencers because it's triggering me, right?

So even if you have to kind of pull back, if that's going to help you not to compare yourself so much, that can be helpful to. And another thing I always, always encourage is look at your journey. Anytime that you're feeling like you're not doing enough or that you need to save more, Are you being hard on yourself? Look at how far you've come. Look at the percentage of how much you're saving. Again, 65% of your income is very high. And just looking at that journey can give you the reassurance that you need that you're on the right track. Yeah, that makes sense. Another thing as well that we like to go back to a lot is your financial values and your priorities and focusing on those. So it seems like saving is a big financial value and a priority of yours. What else comes to mind when you think about what you really care about with money and why you care about these things? I really value spending time with family and getting to, you know, see them because they're kind of far away right now. And so whether it's, you know, budgeting for like a yearly trip to Hawaii to go see my grandma or going to L.A. to go see my sister, I think it's really valuable to be able to have that money to spend and spend time with them, you know. Things are things, but selling a time with people and having experience with those is really important as well. So what do you think you'll do then?

Are we going to increase that savings rate? Where are we going to pull the money from? And also not just pulling the money because if you have financial anxiety around it, you might feel guilty after you spend the money. Do you feel guilt after spending the money? Yeah, I feel guilty looking at the money and then I feel guilty after spending the money. So it is guilty all around. In terms of what I think I can do in terms of next steps is to definitely like maybe like decrease the house allocation fund by like $200. The money is in a high yield savings account right now so that $200 it's already earning interest on it.

So it should kind of balance out. And I think $200 is enough to, you know, spend money on a sweet treat once a week or sweet treat every day. We'll see. Yeah. And doing it and saying, I'm doing this because I want to and I care about it and it's going to make me happy. I think that can help alleviate some of the guilt because you really want to enjoy what your money is giving for you. You work hard to earn this money. And you shouldn't be tied up with feelings of negativity just because you're spending it.

That's what is there for. It's all a tool. It's a matter of how you're deploying it. Yeah. I think it's really valuable to have money, but it's also important to use it. live the life you love as well. Maybe you can consider setting a financial goal of living. Put that into your financial goals like you're already doing your fund money account budget for it. And then maybe that reframe might help to alleviate some of that guilt. So when you get to the end of the year,

you're like, did I hit that goal of visiting family more and whatever else you want to do? And as it will be yes, even though it costs you money. Okay. So Hana, what do you think you're going to be doing next? If you can look out, forecast yourself in the next three, six, nine months, what are you doing with your money that might be different than today. I think what I want to do is definitely allocate more money towards travel and visiting friends and family. I think that's important. My sister.

My other sister, my twin sister. Oh, you have a twin? Yeah, I have a twin sister. Wow. Twin reveal. You know I'm a twin too. Yeah, that's crazy. Yes.

She used to be in London. So I was like, okay. And now she moved to Esa. So you all like moving. I love it. Much closer. Yeah, in the same time zone. So that's really valuable.

So I think I'm going to allocate some money into my travel fund so I can go visit her once a month. What do you think? think your home buying goal will be. So I think I want to definitely buy a house maybe at the end of next year, but obviously plans can change. And I think it's important to be flexible at that. Well, please keep us updated. We always love from hearing from our listeners. So we want to know what you do, what changes you make and how it pans out for you. Yeah, I'll be sure to call in. Great. Hanna, thank you for coming on Smart Money. Thank you for being a loyal listener. And we want to hear from you in the future. Tell us what you decide to do. If you buy the home next year,

fingers crossed. I hope you do. Send us a picture and let us know how the process goes. Yes, of course. So happy to be on here and chat with y'all. Your summer travels deserve an upgrade. With select Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, and Cadillac vehicles connected by OnStar, you can stream, game, and more on the go. Whether you're headed to a music festival or a cottage getaway, you can access hundreds of apps on Google Play right from your center display. Explore OnStar Tech today at OnStar.ca and discover how to take your summer to the next level.

OnStar. Better never stops. Sean, I want to pick your brain about something. Okay. What's on your mind, Elizabeth? So you have had two sabbaticals at NerdWallet. Am I correct? Yes, two sabbaticals. And for those who don't know,

NerdWallet has this amazing perk where after five years, you get five weeks off. And then every three years after that, you get another five weeks off. I haven't a nerd wallet for 10 years now. Wow. Wow. Two sabbaticals.

I'm eligible for my third one in the spring, and I really can't wake because it's a phenomenal perk. I really think it is. Since I started working, God knows how many years ago, I've been working for over two decades, which is crazy. But the most time I'm- At least two decades more to go. Sorry, Elizabeth. Stop it. I'm firing, but that's a different conversation.

But the longest time I've had off is in between jobs. I'm really excited about this. All the nerd wallet execs, close your ears. I didn't think I was going to be here up to five years to even get the perk. But earlier on your career, you were hopping jobs a lot, and there's a lot of reason to do that because you could find something better. But nerd wallet's a pretty good gig. It is.

It's why you've stuck around for this long, right? Exactly, exactly. Okay. So, Sean, I am planning to do a multi-country trip, which I have never done before for my sabbatical next year. And honestly, I need you to be my therapist a little bit and also my travel guide because I'm feeling overwhelmed. Why am I feeling overwhelmed? One, I don't think I would have spent that much money at once before because multi-country trips, as you know, can be expensive. You did one.

And also, as a type B person, I'm overwhelmed with all the organizing. Like, where do I start? So what countries are you planning on going to? What's your general planning? Oh, my God. We have five weeks, but it goes by really quickly and you want to be able to relax in that amount of time, not just be traveling the entirety of it, unless that's your MO. For me, it was not. So lay out what you're thinking currently. So I agree with you. I don't want to spend the whole time traveling. I don't want to come back exhausted and feel like I need a vacation for my sabbatical. So I was hoping to at least have one or two weeks where I stay at home and bed rot. But during the traveling, okay. So I need to drop I-O in London with his grandma. Okay? So that's step number one because Elizabeth.

Drop up your son in London and go have your fun. That's right because Elizabeth wants to solo travel. And then I want to go to Nigeria. I haven't been since Iowa was two years old. Yeah. It's like six years ago? Seven years ago? He's going to be nine this year.

Wow. Okay. Yeah. It's been a while then. It has been a while. And there are, you know, some reasons I haven't gone, but I'm ready now. And I have some land over there that I need to fence as well. So that's an expense of to go.

Casual. You have some land. You have some land. Land, yes, so I want to fence it. So here is my thoughts. Houston, where I am now, London to drop off aisle with his grandma, then some places in Europe, I'm thinking Italy and Amsterdam, then Lagos, then back to pick up aisle, then back to Houston.

Okay. That's a lot of country hopping. I think in terms of order, you might want to do London to Amsterdam, and then down to Italy, and then you can go from Italy to Nigeria, just because they're all kind of in order. Instead of, like, hopping back around. right? That's just one thought in terms of simplifying the direction that you're traveling. Sean, what about all the tickets? All the tickets and all the expenses. Like, where do I start? I'm wondering if you thought about getting a new travel credit card for this and using a sign-up bonus.

Maybe a couple sign-up bonuses to do this. I didn't think about that and that's very smart. And I actually haven't gotten new credit in almost two years. So that's been good. So it might be time to get a new credit card. Yeah. So this seems like a good chance to shop around. Look at Nerdwall. It's a phenomenal. comparison tools and see what credit card might get you a good sign of bonus to cover at least some of the cost because as we know airline tickets are really expensive we don't know what tickets will be like in six months because you're planning on traveling when next summer yes and so you'll probably want to book your travel four three four months in advance okay so you at this point we're recording in the summer 2026 you have like nine months before you need to actually get these tickets oh okay so that should be plenty of time to do some research on some cards apply for I mean, you could actually apply for a couple of different cards because all applications for credit cards to them like a two-week window count as one single application on your credit report. So if you do want to get two or maybe more travel credit cards, you might want to do it all at that same time because if you get approved for one travel credit card and then three months later you want to apply for another one,

the second card issuer might not be so keen on that because they saw that you just got another card recently. So it might be really smart to bunch them if you are going to get more than one and then work on getting the sign-up bonus over the holidays, which you know we're going to be expensive. And then going into next year, you'll have a bunch of sign-up bonus points that you can use for your tickets. I like the way you think. I didn't think of that.

What I was thinking about is my existing bonus points that I haven't used yet. But you already have some? Yes. So I have maybe like 150,000 points I can use plus the sign-up bonus points. So that will save me so much on tickets. I love it. I would love if you spent none of your own money on these tickets and could just use points.

because in generally you're going to get the most value for flights versus something like a hotel. And if you have a hotel credit card, look into that. I would just say shop around a bit and see what your points can get you right now. I mean, you might want to actually kind of mock up what it might be like to travel in a few months from now, which is probably going to be shoulder season. Right now we're in peak travel season. That things are going to be a little more expensive.

But just see what it might actually look like if you used your point on a flight from where you are in Texas to London because you're getting two tickets for you and your son. So that's made to consider too. His father should be getting his ticket, but yes, tentatively. Okay. Well, hopefully his father can do that. But if not, again, just begin to map it out and see what it might actually look like. That's what I did for my honeymoon last November when Garrett and I went to Japan and then South Korea.

I began looking, it was right around this time last year because I knew I was going to be flying in November. And at that point, I didn't really have a lot of points. And I did use a travel credit card to buy my. point so I could earn that sign-up bonus. And so I kind of did the reverse because I just didn't have an eligible card. I probably should have done what I'm telling you to do and taking out a card a little further in advance. I could use it for those flights. But it was fine. I think that's what you should do right now just to kind of get a feel for the lay of the land and see where prices might be over time. Okay. So your advice has immediately minimized the anxiousness around spending

a whole bunch of money because I'm like, well, how much do I need? Obviously, I have to do my research and see how much the little trip is going to cost. Where do I start to save that? And also knowing that I don't have to buy the tickets now because I was like, well, maybe I need to start buying tickets now in order to save money. I think a year out is too far in advance. Yeah. So Elizabeth, you said, where are you going to save this money? And immediately my mind goes to, do you have a sinking fund for your sabbatical? I don't. I have a travel sinking fund at the moment, which has so far $1,000 saved away in there, but I don't have a specific sabbaticals sinking fund. So do you think I need a separate one or can I just

use my travel fund. I've just previously, I've used my fund money account to fund my sabbaticals, but because you have so many distinct expenses that are going to be connected to this in terms of not just your flights, which again, we hope points can cover, but food and lodging, and you're going to be shopping on these trips, and you have to buy that fence for your house in Nigeria. Like, these are all expenses that you know you're going to have over this five-week period of time. So right now, a year out, I think it would be a great time to designate some of your savings in the sinking fund just for this purpose. So you said you have a thousand, dollars in your vacation fund, what if you put half of that just to jumpstart your sinking fund

and then put in $100, $200 each month? Do you think that if you had around $1,000, maybe $1,500 in there, that might be enough to cover some of the lodging, the restaurants, the fence, these things that we're talking about? Some, but I have a feeling it's going to be more. So that's my job to go and do my research and then I can report back. Reverse engineer, how much you would need to save each month once you have that rough figure? Because I would say get the rough figure and then add even 10 or 20% because we know it's easy to spend money when you're traveling. And let me tell you, I ain't got no budget on vacation. Okay, I'm rich. I'm rich on vacation. But you don't want to go into debt. Not that you would be going in debt, but you don't want to

overspend and then end up pulling from some other account for it. So I think this is a great opportunity to have another short-term sinking fund. And then once your sabbatical is done, you can get rid of that account, easy-peasy. Yeah. And then I'm thinking now, I think I'm like two car payments away from being free from car payments. So that money could also go towards my sabbatical if I wanted it to. Yes. And then once you're done funding the sabbatical, if I were you, I would put that car payment amount into a car fund for minutes. Sean, please. Oh, my God.

My car is in the shop as we're speaking right now. And let me tell you, I'm grateful for my car fund. I've never had a car fund. I probably should because it's the most pain in my behind expense. And every time I have to fix something on my car, I want to cry. But I usually just pull it out of my emergency savings. But it would be good to start saving towards another car. But just the fault of buying, why are cars so. expensive. Why don't spend thousands of dollars on a car? I don't want to. It's ridiculous. We'll tackle that in another episode, though. But for now, I think it's thinking fun to be a good idea. So look into it. I will. Now, Sean, tell me about your first sabbatical. What did you do?

I had a great time. And I structured it in a similar way that you were describing, where I bookended my travel with weeks off where I was doing nothing. I read the entirety of the Lord of the Ring series over a week. What a good use of your time. Yeah, they're pretty easy, fun reads. So I did that. I went for some runs, I did some painting. I also did travel. I went to London. It was my first time in London. I saw Lady Gaga in London. And then I went over to Paris because one of my best friends from college was getting married in France. And so we all met up in Paris for her bachelorette, went to the Moulin Rouge, went down to her wedding in the Bougillet region of France. And then I went back to Portland and had a little bit of time off, went to San Francisco

for a weekend. And then I had one final week where I was just at chilling again and it was divine and I did spend a lot of money and I frankly didn't do a lot of the responsible things in terms of like budgeting ahead of time and saying I'm only going to spend this much in Paris but guess what you had a time and you have savings now you didn't die and I had savings then too so I felt okay I didn't spend beyond my means too wildly but if you're going to see lady Gaga in London and then your friend's wedding in France you're going to be spending some money because this is a once in a lifetime experience and I would do probably the same way if I could do it again. Maybe I would budget a little bit more intentionally.

Yes, it was kind of extravagant, but I loved every minute of it. I was so grateful to have this five weeks off. I'm just thinking for all the listeners and lovely viewers out there who do not have a five-week sabbatical, who may be sick of working or just want to take a break and explore something else and are fortunate enough to afford it. Like, what are some ways that they can budget to create their own sabbatical if that's a thing? I wish that we could have our producer Tess Viglin and join us for this conversation because she took a three-year sabbatical from work in Linden Asia for a while. She's just out of the frame, but we'll have her on for another episode to talk about this. But I think knowing how much you would want to spend, would you be able

to actually cover your ongoing life expenses if you didn't have a regular stream of income? Just having those bases cover would be my first step because I worry about stepping away from work for a period of time for fun recreationally and then not being able to easily get back into a way of making money, that makes me nervous. So I would say be really, really careful with when and how you do it, but also know what you want to get out of it. Like, are you going on some sort of retreat to restart your career? Are you doing this just because you're super burnt out? But think about what it's like to reenter a stable way of working and making money. I know someone who actually cashed out their 401k to, yeah. That makes me so nervous. Well, some people are yoloing, right?

Yeah. Wait, how much did they cash out? I don't know that the, the, the, amount, but enough not to work for, I think, two years or so. Yeah, so maybe not the advice that we would give at NerdWallet, but it definitely is good to plan out your sabbatical. If you all want to hear an episode about how to take a sabbatical and how you can plan for one, write us, email us, text us, and we can work on that and have Tess come on for this point. Yeah, if you want to hear a producer Tess's story, because I've heard it and I want to hear it again. Please let us know. That's all we've got for this episode, folks. Send us your financial questions wherever you want, So you can leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373.

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