NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - Is an Annual Fee Travel Card Worth It? A Guide for Occasional Flyers

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

Learn how to decide if a travel card's annual fee is worth it and which card suits occasional flyers. What does it take for a travel credit card's annual fee to actually pay off? Hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola help listener Lacey understand whether annual fees would be worth her paying for premium travel credit cards, despite only flying home a few times a year. Sally French, travel credit card expert and co-host of the Smart Travel podcast, joins to walk through the cards Lacey already carries and explains what to consider before committing to any annual-fee card. She also discusses why transfer partners matter for cards like the Chase Sapphire Preferred and the single gut-check question to ask yourself before signing up for any annual-fee card. Card benefits, terms and fees can change. For the most up-to-date information about cards mentioned in this episode, read our reviews: Chase Sapphire Preferred Review: Strong Option for Travel Rewards Delta SkyMiles Gold AmEx Review: Pricey for What You Get Bank of America Customized Cash Rewards Review: Choose Your Own Bonus Category World of Hyatt Card Review: Lavish Benefits, Reasonable Cost American Express Gold Card Review: Friendly for Foodies, Families Apple Card Review: Extra Rewarding for Apple Fans Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header  Smart Money’s YouTube Channel: https://youtube.com/@nerdwalletsmartmoney To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Is a travel credit card worth the annual fee if you only travel a few times a year? Lacey has her eye on a Chase, Sapphire Preferred or Delta card, and we brought in a travel credit card expert to help her figure out which ones, if any, makes sense for her situation. Welcome to Nerd Wallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayowa.

Now Lacey sent their question in by text. I'm going to do the honors of reading it to you today. Hem, hem. Now that I've had my first full-time job for nearly two years, I'm planning to get a new credit card. Currently have the Bank of America Custom Cash Reward and Apple Card. My family lives in another state, and I fly back a few times a year to visit.

So I've been considering a travel card, but my preferred choices, the Chase Sapphire Preferred or Delta Card, have annual fees. How should I evaluate whether or not an annual fee is worth the perks? Thank you, Lacey. To help us answer Lacey's question, we're joined by a friend of the pod and host of the Smart Travel podcast, Sally French. Sally, welcome back to Smart Money. Thank you, Sean, Elizabeth, for having me on. I love to be on Smart Money. You guys kicked us off and Smart Travel is just like the little sister of you guys. So I'm glad I could follow in your footsteps. We're a happy family. Exactly. And I have to correct you,

Sally, the big sister, not the little one, okay? Oh, that's right, that's right. Well, Big Sister, when we come to talk about travel rewards, because we can hook up Lacey with possibly some big travel rewards here if we get this credit card answer, right? All right, Lacey, so get your notebook ready. So let's first discuss the credit cards that Lacey already has. Before reading this question, I did not know about the Bank of America credit card,

and I also don't know much about the Apple credit card. Sally, tell us ways that Lacey could maximize these cards for travel, and let's start with the Apple card. Well, it's funny that Lacey is considering cards with annual fees because Lacey has two really great cards that don't have annual fees. So for the listeners who don't know, the Apple card is compelling because it earns an unlimited 3% back at Apple. And then other merchants which are affiliated with the card, those currently include Walgreens, Dwayne Reed, Nike, Mobile, Ace, Uber. Those are just a few. And then you also earn 2% when you use your card with Apple Pay.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel like pretty much every merchant takes Apple Pay now. Yeah, at this point. And also, I would say it's probably well north of half of all the transactions that I make are with my phone, the Apple Pay. Right. Yeah, I hate to pull out my wallet, but my phone is in my hand all the time anyway. My phone is my wallet at this point, yes. I am all about Apple Pay. So I really think that getting 2% back is the gold standard on all of your purchases.

And because Apple Pay is probably almost all of your purchases, that's already a really, really great card right there. So love that. That should probably continue to be an everyday spend card for Lacey and anyone else really out there. The catch, though, is that it doesn't really have travel rewards. I assume that's what Lacey's really hoping to get. So what kind of perks reward-wise can someone expect from this Apple card? You're basically just getting the cash back. And here is where I'm going to offer a hot take, even though I come from smart travel and we're all about maximizing the points in miles. It is basically a part-time job. It is my full-time. job to understand how to transfer points and miles. And if you can really do it right, you can get an

outsized redemption. And I've seen people who say, I have miles that maybe could be worth one cent each, but I have maxed it out to earn 6% back in value because I transferred them to an airline and I flew business class and it was international. And typically the only way we see those outsized redemptions is for international business class. The reality is I think a lot of people just want to, to get that economy flight a little bit cheaper or that regular hotel that they're taking for the kids' sports meet or the wedding a little bit cheaper. And the reality is often just having the cash back to pay for it is going to be the best bet rather than try to chase all these redemptions and do all these transfers. It does seem like Lacey's excited to learn more and possibly

consider something like the Delta card to do that. But the reality is for most people, if you don't want to make points in a mile as a part-time job, go with the cashback. I love cashback. I'm frankly way too lazy to do all the things that you and Megan do on smart travel. And I'm so impressed that you do it. But of course, it is literally your job to be getting as much of value and to find all the tips and trips. People can maximize their points. But that's just not me. So, you know, know, you're in Lane.

Wow, guys. You got me thinking I have a Discover cashback card. And today I was looking at my account and I saw, wow, I've got 40 bucks. I don't use that account enough, but I got 40 bucks. and cashback rewards. So thank you for that hot take, Sally. I'm going to be thinking about that next time I have a huge annual fee coming up. That 40 bucks is like your door dash for the day. Exactly. Free money though, free money. Yes.

Well, Sally, tell us a bit about the Bank of America card. What are some of the perks there? I mentioned that 2% back is sort of the gold standard of what you can be earning on your everyday spending. But what's interesting about the Bank of America custom cash rewards card is that you can earn bonus points on certain categories. So you can earn a 3% cash back bonus in the category of your choice. And some of the categories that you can choose from right now include gas and EV charging, online shopping, also cable, internet, phone plan, streaming, dining, travel,

mentioned that, drugstores and pharmacies, or home improvement and furnishings. I find this really compelling because you can switch up your category. So if you know for a quarter, I'm going to be buying a new couch, then maybe you switch it to home improvement and furnishings because it's a lot of money. If you are planning your big summer vacation, maybe you switch it to travel then. And then you also earn an automatic 2% cash back at grocery stores and wholesale clubs. So the 3% and the 2% categories do have a combined quarterly cap of $2,500.

After that, you will earn 1%. But here's where I find this card to be very compelling is that this card is part of what's called B of A Rewards. So if you bank with B of A, you can participate in this rewards program, and that's either having money in a checking account, maybe having money with Merrill, if you have your IRA with them or something like that. And so the more money you have with them, the more rewards you can actually earn. So if you have a minimum balance of at least $30,000, you get a 25% rewards bonus. So that makes 1% on general spending into 1.25%. If you're doing 3% in your bonus category, let's say that's travel. Then that makes it all of a sudden at 3.75% earnings. Now, let's say Lacey has a fuller IRA and maybe has at least 100K with Merrill.

That becomes a 50% rewards bonus. So that means 3% on your bonus category becomes 4.5%. And then it gets really wild. If you have at least $1 million with Bank of America, one be my best. best friend. And two, you can get a 75% rewards bonus. So with that 3% on your bonus category becomes 5.25% back. Wow. Okay. That's significant. I would not recommend just moving all your money to Merrill just for the rewards. But if you're someone who already banks with Bank of America, if you already have money with Merrill, don't overlook this because this is a really good opportunity

for you to get outsized cashback rewards. And so the point here for Lacey or anyone listening is to really just know the value and all the options and benefits of the cards that you currently have because it might actually fit your needs and you may not need a new credit card is kind of what I'm hearing. Yeah, I think for your everyday spending, you're doing really well. Where you could, I think, benefit from a travel credit card is not just though from the spending rewards, but it's from the additional benefits that come from holding a card. Lacey mentioned something like Delta Airlines. And with that, you're getting benefits like free-checked bags with the Chase-Safire preferred, you're getting really excellent travel insurance. So I would actually ask Lacey,

are you paid money for check bags on Delta all the time, in which case having a Delta card can certainly make sense. Are you someone who purchases travel insurance just out of pocket? If so, then putting that travel spending on something like a Chase Saffire preferred also really makes sense. Sally, one of the main points of Lacey's question was that they don't travel that often. They said they only travel a few times a year. When I first got one of my travel cards, I was traveling a lot. And then I asked myself, well, what happens to the years where maybe I only travel a handful of times?

Is the annual fee still worth it? So based on that, which of these cards might be best, the two that she's looking at? So the Chase and the Delta. If you're not traveling a lot, then having these travel credit cards ends up just being a burden to figure out how to justify that annual fee. And Lacey said, how do I justify the annual fee? It's actually quite simple. You just go and look at what all the benefits are and you say, how much do I actually use

and if you use them enough to justify the annual fee, then it probably makes sense. If you feel like you're really having to stretch yourself, it doesn't make sense. So I'll walk you through a couple of them. There is the Delta Sky Miles Gold American Express card, which I think is the most comparable to the Chase Sapphire preferred if you're deciding between the two. So this card has a $0 introductory annual fee for the first year. Then it becomes $150 after that. The benefits of holding this card really only materialize if you are flying Delta.

So one of the benefits is first bag free, and then on domestic flights, you get your second bag free. So I would say, how much are you flying? And if you don't fly Delta that year, then a free check bag is worth a grand total of $0. But if you are flying eight times and it's always on Delta and you are going to check a bag all eight times, then that easily is going to outweigh the annual fee right there. You get other benefits. You get zone five party boarding, which is not super early, but it's also not the back. I know people don't want to be the last on the plane because they probably have to check their bags. So Zone 5 is probably going to help you out.

There's benefits like an $120 ride share credit. That is broken up into $10 statement credits each month. There's also other benefits like an $100 Delta State's credit where you get $100 back per year as a statement credit after you use your card to book prepaid hotels through Delta. Some other spending rewards like two miles at restaurants. Really this card only shows it's. value when you are flying Delta. So again, I would ask Lacey, how much are you flying Delta? If you are paying for check bags on Delta, even just two round trips, this is probably going to

pay for itself. But again, if you don't have traveled that much, or you don't want to feel handcuffed to flying Delta because I see this a lot. I actually have a United credit card. And now I always want to fly United because I'm like, oh, I got to get the status. I got to get the benefits. I'm like kind of special on United. And I don't want to fly Delta because I'm not special on Delta, but what if Delta has the better flight time or the direct route? And then you're like, what do I do? I don't know how to choose. That was an issue I had and why I cut off my American Airlines card because I moved to Houston.

There aren't as many American flights coming out to the destination I want to go to. And the flights are a lot more expensive. So I was like, well, this card is not as useful anymore because I don't want to be tied to American. So if you don't want to be tied to a specific airline, that's where I actually think a card like the Chase Sapphire preferred, which Lacey brought up, makes a lot of sense. So this card is not tied to specific airline. It's a general travel card. And with it, it has a bunch of transfer partners. So those partners are airlines like United or Southwest. So you're still

somewhat limited. Like for example, Delta is not a Chase ever preferred partner. But you do have more options so you don't feel like you're just completely hamstrung to one airline. So this card, just to back up, it has a $95 annual fee. It got some big changes. Actually, in June 2026, so it's a fairly recent. Some of the things that they did is they gave up to $100 in statement credits each account anniversary year for hotel stays purchased through Chase Travel. So I mentioned $95 annual fee, but then this $100 statement credit, if you're someone who's going to book a hotel through Chase Travel anyway, then this card is like a, quote,

moneymaker because you're getting that $5 benefit right there. Other benefits that you're also getting include some deals with Apple TV, Peloton, Lyft, DoorDash, These are all random benefits and most of them require you to activate and have some sort of ending date. So do be aware of that. Another benefit that I love on this card is TSA precheck statement credit. If you do not have TSA precheck, what are you doing? What are you doing? And I'm not waiting for you.

I'm leaving. Yes. Yes. Oh, gosh. I was flying with someone who didn't have TSA precheck and I was like, I'm leaving. I'm not waiting for you. I'm not going in the regular line. No.

If you come from an international flight, that is a long wait. You hear me? Right. So this card could be compelling. It's also pretty interesting for everyday spending. You get 5x on Chase Travel. So if you are booking travel this year and you want to book through Chase, that could be interesting. 3x on dining and vacation homes. Three X on streaming. Three X on gas and EV charging. Three X on online groceries. Two X on other travel. So this is one of those cards where the bonus categories might be even more beneficial than something that Lacey already has, like the Bank of America card. And the two cards that Lacey is considering, I think, are really good intro travel credit cards. One thing that stands out to me is that their annual fees seem really low compared to some other travel credit cards out that I can get close to like $1,000. Like the Chase Sapphire Reserve is several hundred dollars. The MX Platinum is also quite expensive. And I'm thinking that since there is a bit of a game to make it so the annual fee is worth it,

this would be a really easy place to start. Look at your benefits and make sure you are getting more out of them than you'd be paying in your annual fee. and that's just harder to do when you have an annual fee that's like, you know, $7,800. The more you travel, the more benefits you get out of those cards. Personally, I do have a couple cards that have annual fees in the many hundreds of dollars realm. But I also travel so often that it's really easy for me to justify those credits. But I always tell people, if you are somehow having to bend over backwards to justify the credits or the other benefits, then don't go for one of those many hundreds of dollars of annual fee cards.

Then again, if you do travel, I would consider. them. I think about the lounge access alone, and I've probably been to 40 airport lounges in the year. Because I travel so much. This year so far? Oh, my gosh. I know. Yes. I mean, I travel a lie. It's my job. You do, yes. But, you know, it is some people's job. Not even people who work in travel. My cousin's a firefighter and travels every single week. So I'm like, go to the airport lounge. And I'm like, how much is a coffee at the airport? I'm horrified. I'm like a little sad egg and cheese sandwich at the airport these days is like $20. Not a PDX. Portland Airport has priced food the same price as food elsewhere in the city. You can't jack up prices. Yes, it's one of the many reasons why PDX is the best

airport in America. I do like PDX. I'm not going to argue with you. I just want to tell anybody out there listening to be honest with themselves. When I got the Chase Sapphire Reserve, oh no, when they increased that annual fee, I said, I'm going to justify this fee. And I looked at that Peloton benefit and a whole bunch of other stuff that I was never going to use. And I lied to myself. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to get a Peloton bike. I'm going to go to Lulu Lemon and get some sets for a pair of pants for $100. No, I didn't.

No, I'm not. So I think it's important to be honest about what perks you're actually going to use and if it makes sense. A lot of these cards just compel you to spend even more money. And that's not what I want you to do. I want you to be able to save money and not feel like you're forced to spend money on a Peloton just to save some money on the free Peloton subscription or something like. like that. Something we're kind of circling around is how hard it is to really keep track of all the

value and how much you might actually be getting from these cards. Like maybe you do use that Lulu Lemon perk one month, but then you don't use it for the rest of the year. How do you keep track of all of the value that you are getting or maybe aren't getting but the potential was there from these cards, Sally? If you are really stretching yourself to justify the value, then already automatic no. But what I do is I have tons and tons of credit cards that all have all these expiring credits and it'll be like a monthly Uber expiring credit. And then another card is a monthly Lyft expiring credit. And so I have to track, did I take a lift this month? Did I take an Uber this month? What I actually do is I have a running list of all my benefits and when they're going to expire.

And then I just check them off if I used them. And if I didn't use them, then that's a good mental note of maybe I should cancel this card because I'm not getting any value out of it. For me, something like the Amics platinum card, which has a annual fee close to $1,000. That one, I actually don't even bother to track it because I know I get so much benefit. I am a part-time resident of their Centaurian Lounge in St. Rich's know. Yes, me too. I love it.

In fact, I'm going next week. I love the lounge. Yeah, so I don't even bother to track that one because I know I'm going to justify it. But with something like an airline card, I might add up, how many flights did I take this year? How many bags did I actually check this year that I would have paid for? And if it's kind of close, then maybe you don't need to. hold that card. Are you doing this in a spreadsheet? Do you have a journal dedicated to it? What's your system? I actually keep it very simple and I just have a notes and I just go down the list and

just in your phone's note app. Yes. I just keep it simple. But I know some people have fancy spreadsheets to do all it and calculate the value. But I don't need to get that wild. Yeah. You know, Sally, I once interviewed, don't ask me why. Somebody who is an expert at helping you maximize your travel and travel credit card reward. points and they advise downloading an app to help me manage all of the benefits and make sure I was maximizing them. So for people who don't want to use their notes or a spreadsheet, are there any tools out there they can use to track? There are all sorts. So you can listen to the Smart Travel podcast to find out all about those. But the other thing that I will say is the banks themselves

have gotten a lot better about being transparent about the rewards. So even with something like the Amics Platinum, which is again, as I mentioned, one of that close to a thousand dollar annual fee cards, They actually have this tracker and then they'll show you how much of the benefit you've used. So maybe you have a $200 airline statement credit. And then it'll just be a little scale and it'll say you've used $160 worth of it this year. And it makes it really simple to know, oh my gosh, I still have $40 left of my airline credit to use. So don't overlook the banks apps themselves. In the past, they were not very good.

I will say that. But they have gotten a lot better. It is 2026. And bank apps are pretty good now. For the most part. Yeah, for sure. Okay, well, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

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Wayfair, every style, every home. All right, Sally, it sounds like Lacey may be getting their very first annual fee travel credit card because they already have two other credit cards. When someone is considering going with a card like the ones that they mention, what's the single most important question to ask before anything else? Does it seem easy to justify? If yes, then go for it. So if you're someone who flies Delta twice a year and you check a bag, then yes, probably go for it. So with Delta, their usual checked bag fee is $45. So four flights a year or two round trip flights a year more than outweighs the annual fee.

So just kind of calculate, are you using these benefits? If yes, then you're probably leaving money on the table by not having this. that branded credit card. So thinking about the total value that Lacey could get from either of these cards, does one stand out as the clear winner, especially as you compare it to the annual fee, or is it sort of a it depends situation? Unfortunately, it is a it depends situation. But what I would generally say is if someone's looking for a new credit card, there's always cash back. And then there is the realm of travel rewards that are general travel rewards cards. and these I find don't have as good specific benefits on a brand, but they're easier to use holistically and have good benefits all around.

If you're going for a branded credit card, whether that's the Delta card or United or Southwest card, or in the hotel realm, pretty much every major hotel chain has a credit card like Hilton, Hyatt Marriott. These cards can be enormously rewarding at the hotel or with the airline, but then they don't have a whole lot of value outside of those brands. So just understand, do you want to be brand loyal? Are you brand loyal? Is this going to be easy for you to be brand loyal? If so, then I think having one of those credit cards can make sense. But if you're just going to be stressed to be brand loyal because you want to go on the best flight or you want to stay at the most convenient hotel, not the one that you have the card with,

then I would opt for one of those general travel credit cards, which is going to be something like the Chase Sapphire preferred that Lacey brought up. Other options include something like the Capital One Venture card or the Venture X card. many of these big banks have travel credit cards that are sort of that mid-tier where the annual fee is around $100, and that can make a lot more sense for a newer traveler interested in getting in the points in Miles game, but who doesn't want to be fully committed to a certain brand. And Sally, you have loads of credit cards, as you mentioned. Do you find that you tend to gravitate towards the brand-specific ones or the general ones, and why?

Well, it's interesting because I rarely put spending on the brand-specific ones. I put my spending on, to be honest, a cashback card. Because I also like to just have the cash bag. Yes, because the cash back can pay my mortgage that month. I can invest my cash back. It's dollars in your pocket. Yes, because guess what? You can't invest your United Miles.

They're not going to accrue any sort of interest. So Hot Take, I have a travel podcast, and I don't sit on a ton of travel points in miles because I'd rather just have cash that I'm sitting on and watch that cash pile. grow in the stock market. So I really actually don't spend a ton of money on travel credit cards. However, I do hold many travel credit cards because I find that their benefits can be enormously valuable. So we've kind of talked to the death about, you know, the Delta cards and the Chase of our preferred. But another realm of credit cards I would love to talk about are hotel credit cards because a lot of these hotel cards can be really rewarding. It's pretty common to see these hotel credit cards that have

free night certificates. So I'll give you an example of one is the World of Hyatt credit card. It has a $95 annual fee. The spending rewards are good. They're not great. You earn two bonus points per dollar spent on dining, airline tickets, gym memberships, local transit. I do actually have my gym membership tied to this card because no other credit cards that I know of have bonus points on gym memberships. Besides that, I would not put my everyday spending on this card. However, this card gives you complementary World of Hyde Discoverist status, which is kind of a me tier. You're not getting the free breakfast or anything with this, but you do get some upgrades that do mean something when you need them. I'm talking things like late checkout, which can be really helpful every once in a while.

But the number one reason I love this card is because you receive one free night at any category one three four Hyatt Hotel or resort each year after your card member anniversary. I don't know about you, but I've never stayed in a hotel that has cost less than $95. Me either. And I don't think I want to. I have in college and it wasn't very good. Yes, exactly, maybe some scary hostel. I'm a competitive weightlifter and I'm traveling all the time for sports meets. And I always feel like the hotel next to the convention center is always a category three or four high at hotel. And it's always going for $300 a night.

So the way I look at this card is the $95 annual fee gets me a free night certificate, which I apply to one of those free nights. And I find myself saving so much money right there. And then, you know, I did the meat. I'm all sweaty. I need the late checkout. out so that way I can shower after my meet. And I find that these cards are enormously beneficial. Again, the catch is with this world of Hyatt card, you have to stay at a Hyatt. What if your sports meet isn't next to Hyatt? There's only a Hilton and a Merriott. Your free night certificate

doesn't mean a whole lot at the Hilton. If I was talking with Lacey, I would maybe recommend first going with one of those like general or branded cards, depending on what they want to do and their preference. And then what you're describing, Sally, almost seems like a step up in complication between the baseline entry level of child or credit cards and then something that's more expensive like the Chase Sapphire Reserve or Amex Platinum. Does that ring true to you? I don't necessarily think that someone needs to jump right to those many hundreds of dollars annual fees cards unless you're sure you'll use the benefits. However, don't overlook them because you might. Even something like the Amics Platinum has benefits at Lulu Lemon and Uber. And if you're someone who's

like, oh yeah, I'm always shopping at Lulu Lemon, then that can still even be useful. But I would just go through and look, do these benefits align with my spending? And if you are saying, I'm going to stay at a Hyatt once a year, then maybe the benefits of holding the world of Hyatt credit card right there can be worth it. Sally, what would you say is the biggest mistake that first time travel credit card holders make? So many people just don't know all the benefits on their card. A lot of people have a credit card and then have no idea what benefits they can get. And there are the sexy benefits like the free hotel room nights,

but there are underrated benefits like travel insurance on many of these cards. I've seen people who all of a sudden have lost their bags and are going to target to buy clothes super fast. And I say, did you charge that trip to a credit card with travel insurance? Because you could get reimbursed for that. I also talk to someone who works at NerdBuller. We'll not name any names, but they paid for minute suites. And they had a credit card that had priority pass, which would have covered their minute suites. So a lot of people don't even realize, like, they have lounge access, they might have these statement credits.

And the best way to find these benefits, one, you can go to the credit card website itself or do one better. I'm going to give a shameless plug to nerd wallet.com. That is us because my job is to actually go through and list the benefits of these cards. So you can just honestly Google whatever your card is. So Chase Sapphire Preferred NerdWallet benefits. And we have pages that just spell out like 12 benefits of the Chase Sapphire Preferred. And a lot of people would be shocked to know that they have benefits. And some of these things will be like a streaming credit.

It'll be like an Apple TV credit. And then people are like, wait, I have been paid cash money for Apple TV when my credit card will offer me a statement credit for it. So do understand a lot of these benefits are really random. So just go to nerd wallet because we're here to help you out. And also, Sally, you may not name names, but I'm going to. It was our producer, Tess, who had that experience of not knowing the purse on her travel credit card. And honestly, it was quite a horror story. I don't know if she talked about this on smart travel yet, but she should be on pronto to tell the story because it's a good lesson for anyone hoping to get value out of their credit cards and not make the mistake that she made.

And yes, she is laughing in the background of this recording right now. Yeah. She can laugh about it now, but it was not funny back then, okay? No. No. So Lacey, we have given you a mouthful and earful, rather, of information. Hopefully you do not have analysis paralysis and you're able to make a decision. Whatever you decide, write us and let us know which card that you.

you chose. Now to tee it all up, Sally, if you were in Lacey's position, which card would you choose? Oh my gosh, so much pressure. I want to know how often Lacey is flying Delta because I will say if Lacey is flying Delta twice a year and checking a bag, just get the Delta card right there. All right. Well, Sally, it's so great to have you on the show. And folks, if you want all the travel advice you could possibly want, travel credit cards, lounges, airfares, destinations, be sure to check out Sally and Megan on Smart Travel. And you can find that wherever you find us. Thank you so much, Sally. Thank you for having me.

I'm always happy to come back. That was a great conversation. I love having chit-chat with the travel gals. Me too. Speaking of conversations, you know, I recently went to a networking event in a conference, right, Sean? Do you remember? Yes, this was your trip to Chicago. I remember.

Good. I'm glad that you listened to me. And for a recap, for the listeners and viewers who did not listen to or watch that episode, I went to Chicago for the Women's Impact Initiative Network event. and it basically is for finance professionals. And I met some really cool people. I met lots of different finance professionals from a range of subject matters.

Some of those include behavioral finance. Some people were experts in ethical investing, and I know you all have been sending us lots of questions around that. And we also had an expert that I met who was really, really competent in first-generation wealth building, very knowledgeable in that area.

And Elizabeth, you were saying you wanted to have some of these experts on the show but we need some listener questions to answer. So, folks, if you have questions about how to manage your money, the way your emotions are interacting with your finances, ethical investing is a big topic too, please send your questions our way. And then we can have them on to answer your questions.

Now, Elizabeth, I know there's actually something much juicier you wanted to talk about as well today. And this has to do with laser hair removal. Is that right? Oh, my gosh. So you know everyone who's been following I wanted to be a hairless cat. That was my goal, you know?

And earlier this year, I said I'm going to invest the $1,000 because there was a special going on near me. I remember that. And I remember being wary of any kind of special about this, but I don't want to steal your thunder. So please go ahead. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

The trauma. So, all right. So I got to pay it in three installments, which was cool. And I went in the first treatment, and I have gotten laser before. I'm no new bee to laser. I've gotten several times. Anyways, I had my first appointment, and laser does feel like a bit of a prick. So it is a little uncomfortable, but it usually shouldn't burn, unless you don't shave.

And then you can smell the hair burning. Sorry, TMI, but it shouldn't be extremely painful. So I go the first time, and it is pretty uncomfortable. But I'm like, well, maybe it's been a while and maybe, maybe, maybe. You're just sensitive. Maybe. A few days later, I have a few days later, I have. burn marks all over my body.

No. Huh? Yeah? Oh no, Elizabeth. And I was about to be going on vacation around that time too. So I was like, what's going on? Why am I getting burned? And I know that that's a risk with laser.

You might get a little burnt here in there, but I've never been burned before. Exactly. So I'm like, well, this is not good. And I reach out to the lady and I'm like, hey, I've got burn marks. And she's like, you know, I'm so sorry. This never usually happens. I'm going to give you some aloe vera to put on them. They should be artificial burns.

And they should actually just fade away within a couple of weeks. I'm like, okay, let me wait it out and see. A few weeks is a long time, though. It was, but they did actually fade out. So I'm like, okay, maybe we'll just put this up to maybe I didn't shave properly or there were because you're not supposed to have any deodorant or anything. Maybe I, I don't know. So I just said, I'm going to benefit it out. Went back for my second treatment. She was like, I don't want to burn you again. So we're going to use a different laser. And I'm like, okay, great. We're going to test a different one. It's not as effective. You may need more sessions, but I don't want to burn you. So I'm like, okay, we did that.

left the session, no burns, no burns. Okay. So I'm like, okay. However, this is going, this is going okay. Your hair is like growing even more rapidly afterwards or something. Well, I'm not going to give you the details of how my hair was growing, but let's just say some parts of my body have like tiger, like patches. Hair, no hair, hair, hair, no hair. But, you know, I'll just leave that up to the imagination. You paint me the vivid picture there, yeah. I get to the third session now. And I'm burnt again at the third session, but this time they are not artificial burns.

I can see my flesh. So the white of my yes, all over my stomach. Which laser did they use? Was it the first one or the second one? The first one went back to the first one. And honestly, during that session, it was really intense. And she chalked it up to maybe it's because it's around your cycle time and sometimes people are more sensitive.

Or maybe just the laser was on way too strong and it was literally burning your flesh. And you don't know what you're doing. This is the thing. You paid $1,000 to be turned into a burnt tiger, not a hairless cat. Thank you, exactly. So anyway, the money lesson there was like, well, should I have gone to a more expensive place? One, two, obviously I'm not blaming myself because clearly they don't know what they're doing. I did check reviews and they have pretty positive reviews for the most part. But I wondered if they are not experienced with my skin type or what the issue was.

But I did express my disappointment and I actually was really upset with those burns because who wants permanent burn marks on their body? No, that could try you. Yeah, it was really awful experience. but I did ask for a refund, so I got my full $1,000 back. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Are you fully recovered? How are you doing?

I still have, the scars have not faded on my stomach. So they're still there. Oh, God, I'm sorry. I could tell they're more permanent, look like more permanent scars. But they're still reaching out to me, and I'm not going to lie. I did look into like, can I sue them for this? You know, do I have a case here? But then I thought, do I want to go through all that drama?

And I was just like, you know what? Maybe it's just a lesson learned. I would say leave a review on Google where everyone can see it. I did. Okay, good. I did. But guess what? They message me. Now, right after I left the review, oh my God, I've been thinking about you. I've been praying about your scars. Please let me make it right. I can use a machine to take away the hyperpigmentation. La, la, la, la. They text me like three times back to back, begging me. And I know it's because

I left that bad review with pictures. Well, yeah. People should know that if you go to this place, you might be getting burned. Because sometimes you do get what you pay for, but a deal is a deal too. And it's really hard to vet places like this. So I feel like you made a smarter decision as you could have. You just got in with a bad technician, perhaps. So I'm glad that you were able to get your money back. To me, that's kind of the real lesson is advocate for yourself. And if you've been wrong by a business, do what you can to get your money back and also spread the words to other people don't go through what you went through. And you know what was interesting as well. I felt bad. I was the one who was

scarred, but I felt bad, one, to ask for a refund and two to leave a bad review because I hate to, you know, especially a small business, like, I don't want to affect your income flow. But at the same time, you have physically damaged my skin, you know? That's the life of a recovering people pleaser, perhaps. It is, exactly. But I was like, no, we're going to advocate for ourselves, like you said. We're going to get our money back and we're going to warn other people because it's the right thing to do. Well, I'm so sorry you went through all of that.

But I am really glad that you at least got your $1,000 back because that's the least they could have done. Thank you. It went straight into my emergency savings. Maybe you can go into your HSA for future health care costs. I know, right? I almost did go to the dermatologist, but Sean, I still have an issue. You still have this hair? Yes, I'm not a hairless cat.

Hello? Okay, well, maybe you can find someone else who's a little more reputable and, you know, pay a little more and get it done right. Right, and start the journey again. Keep us posted, Elizabeth. I will. All right, well, that's all we've got for this episode. Remember, folks, send us your money questions. Maybe you're wondering about the best way to get your hair lasered off without getting burnt.

Whatever you want to talk about, you can text us or leave us a voicemail on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373-901-730 nerd or email us at podcast atnerball.com. You can also drop us a comment on Spotify or YouTube. And if you guys are not following us on YouTube, you should be doing so because Elizabeth and I are pretty gorgeous and you should be watching us. And you can find the link to our YouTube inside of the episode description. Join us next time to hear a follow-up episode on Savings Bucket since y'all love that. topic so much. In the meantime, follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app. That includes Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and IHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes. Here's our brief disclaimer. We are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general,

educational and entertainment purposes may not apply to your specific circumstances. Some companies mentioned in this episode may be nerve-ball partners, but that does not influence how we discuss them. And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds. Thank you.