NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - Mrs. Dow Jones's New Rules for Getting Rich, Plus How to Combine Finances After Marriage

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

Personal finance influencer Mrs. Dow Jones breaks down what it really takes to build wealth. Then, learn how to combine finances with your partner. What would you do differently today to make yourself wealthy in the future? Haley Sacks, the personal finance influencer known as Mrs. Dow Jones and author of the new book, Future Rich Person, joins hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola to discuss the new rules for building wealth. They dig into the mindset shifts required before you can truly reach your financial goals, why quiet quitting won’t get you to the wealth you want, how to break free from the sunk cost fallacy when a job is underpaying you, and what it really means to spend less but better. Then, Sean and Elizabeth answer a listener’s question from a Spotify comment about combining finances with a partner before getting married. They dive into how to vet financial advisors and what practical financial steps every couple should take before and after saying “I do.” Inspired to navigate your finances with an advisor? Use NerdWallet Advisors Match to find vetted professionals today at https://www.nerdwalletadvisors.com/match  Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the Power Move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real Power Move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new Power Move. Hey Elizabeth, we have to talk about the newsletter. What newsletter are you talking about, Sean? You mean the new free smart money email newsletter? Yes, and I have to say it is so good.

It really is. It has clips, episode roundups, and behind the scenes takes from me, you, and our producer, the stuff that makes you feel like you're really part of the show. And listeners, for the record, you actually are part of the show. I'm going to be sharing personal stuff. You know, I love sharing my business, and I'm going to be sharing parenting tips from an eight-year-old. old and a single mom perspective. And I am loading up the newsletter with my favorite gardening tips and lots of cute photos from my garden, including my pets, just napping among my flower beds. It's kind of

adorable. And the best part is that this newsletter is totally free. So head to nerdwollet.com slash podcast to sign up. For the record, that's nerdwollet.com slash podcast. Come hang out with us. Do you see yourself being rich in the future? Well, I'm already rich, Sean. I consider myself rich now. But if you mean in terms of the dollar amounts, absolutely, I'm on my way to being rich. Yeah, one day at a time, right? Welcome to Nerd Wallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayola.

On this episode, we're going to be chatting about finding the right financial planner for your needs and also combining finances before you tie the knot. But first, what would you do differently today to make yourself rich in the future? That's the premise of the new book, Future Rich Person by personal finance influencer Haley Sacks, who you may know better as Mrs. Dow Jones. We're going to talk with Haley about the new rules for building wealth. Haley Sacks, welcome to smart money. Thanks for having me. Great to have you, Haley.

I know I'm so excited to be here. I was telling you before that, like, I am one of your nerds. I listen all the time. I love this show. I feel like I have a parissocial relationship with you because of social media. So the feelings are mutual, I guess. Okay, good. We're in just one giant parisocial relationship.

Yes. All right, Haley. Well, we're here to talk about your book. And I want to say, first of all, well done for writing the book in the tone of how you speak. As I was reading the book, I felt like I could hear you in my head. So I really enjoyed that. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

Let's start with the introduction. So in the introduction of the book, you say that you aren't the typical finance influencer because you come from a relatively wealthy background versus having this rags to rich. story. You mentioned your father who worked on Wall Street, but you still didn't know much about personal finance despite growing up in that kind of household. So how has coming from money influenced your financial journey? Well, I like to say that I'm like if LeBron James's daughter couldn't shoot a free throw. Because very correct that I have a father who's worked on Wall Street for over 40 years. My mom was on Wall Street too. She out-earned my dad when they met and was really

successful in business as well, but then, you know, had three kids over three years, which would take a lot of women out. Yeah. Not to do the social worker. But yeah, so I come from this like very business savvy family. And it really affected my relationship to money in sort of a complicated way, I would say, because it was never talked about at home. And of course, like I have the privilege I always want to acknowledge.

Like I don't have student. And I never had student debt. And I had this safety net. and I really don't ever want to pretend otherwise. But I think that what I realized growing up around wealth was without being taught how it works, even if you have it or don't have it, you're going to be helpless. And so despite the fact that I grew up with privilege, I always associated money with like stress and intimidation and sort of kind of myself out early that finance was for me and really spent my 20s financially dependent and really avoided. I was surrounded by people who knew about it.

it, but they just never really brought their work home with them. And it affected me. Was there ever an element of you just kind of feeling like you were secure no matter what because of your family's resources that you maybe didn't have to like scrounge your way up like other people? Or were you still kind of fighting through just to cover your bases? So I started my career in comedy. I got like support from them with my first apartment, which I think was like $1,200 on the Lower East Side and they paid a portion of that. But I worked as a nanny for this kid named Winthrop, and I was a page at David Letterman, and I worked at the front desk of a Pilate Studio.

So I was always hustling a lot, and it wasn't as though there was like, I wasn't like this trust fund baby who was like, yeah, here's our car, like, go do whatever you want. Like, they kept me on a tight leash, but I think that what it made me feel more than anything was like pretty small and sort of babyed. And I talk about this in the book where it's like, I think that that's why I'm I'm obsessed with financial independence. Because the moment that I got my own money, I was like, this is sick. Like, this is so much better.

And I think that anyone can relate to that feeling, whether you're, you know, maybe you have the sugar daddy is paying for you or you're in debt. And, you know, you're the government or a credit card company is giving you money. Like, whenever you're spending or using money that is not yours, it comes with these strings attached. Yes. Yeah. Having and earning your own money gives you so much more independence and self-direction.

It does. I know that you also detail in the book your journey to your own financial education and learning about money. At any point, did you then go to your parents and say, hey, I'm trying to learn more. Can you give me some tips or pointers? It's so funny because obviously I'm Mrs. Dow Jones now. Like I should say, I always loved money. Like I was always the person who was like talking about money. I wanted to know about celebrity money.

I understood that money equal power, but I just didn't understand the logistics of it. But it's like now at home. I'm 34. I have parents that are in their late 60s. And obviously because of what I do, I'm very aware of like the fact that we need to be estate planning. And I talk about that a lot in the book too, how to have those conversations with your family.

I have a whole PDF that you get of like the seven documents that you need in case you die, like just things that no one really wants to think about, but makes life so much easier. And so I think they probably find me a bit of a nuisance now because I am like always running around like, what's your password for that? So did we figure out, like, what's going on this part of the will? Like, should you put the house in a trust instead of in my name?

Like, you know, like the pendulum has swung the other way. I can relate. I'm always giving unsolicited advice because I think it's going to help the people around me. And guess what? It often does. Yes. It does, right? Yeah.

Well, Haley, early in your book, you say that you have to choose your hard. Basically, which difficult thing do you want to go through? Like, would you rather continue to deal with various unpleasant current circumstances or make the changes to buy yourself freedom. But in your experience, I'm wondering why you think it might be so challenging for people to make those changes, like maybe stop spending more than they earn or leave a job that they hate to just improve their finances long term. Why I talk about choosing your hard is because our brains are really not wired for long-term

satisfaction. And when the reward is years away as it is with money, it's a lot harder to motivate. yourself towards that, but really everything that you do with your finances is setting yourself up in your future. And so you have to, if you want to be good with money, you need to figure out a way around that. But I think that a reason that a lot of people avoid making those changes is because of something that I call in the book, Learn Financial Helplessness, which I think we see a lot with Gen Z and millennials. And it sort of is like this idea of financial nihilism. Like, We all have that friend, of course, who's like, you know, we're just on a floating rock and like, you know, the world is burning. And like, you know, we should just like live out loud today. Because like, who cares about tomorrow? Like, no one's going to be here. And I think people use that a lot as an excuse with their finances. And I, the narrative is so intense, especially in the media. But also like we're all living it and feeling it right. Like intense student loan crisis. Houses, which is like the classic American dream owning a house like completely.

We've all been priced out of it. Now we have like the whole AI threat that they're going to take all of our jobs. Like every day there's something new that feels like it's coming for us that means that like we're just completely screwed. And I think that it's really easy and almost like sort of punk rock it feels like in a way to be like, yeah, like we're screwed. Let's just not care about this. But the best form of resistance is to still put energy towards being a future rich person and choosing your hard because the hard of staying. being broke, despite it being familiar and familiar always winning is so much harder than just actually taking the steps that I outline in the book to improve your financial situation

and create that security in the future. And also, wouldn't you rather hedge your bets in case the world doesn't explode in a few years and have a retirement fund? Oh my gosh, I know. And I hear that all the time. I'm like, if you invest $200 a month at a 8% return, then you're going to have, you know, $700,000 if you start at, you know, whatever, I'll do the math. Yeah, yeah.

And people are always like, but $700,000 when I'm 65 is not going to mean anything. And I'm like, wouldn't you rather still have $700,000 even if the spending power of that is $400,000 than having zero? Exactly. And you know, Haley, this makes me think about the importance of a mindset shift, which is something that you talk about in chapter three, right? So talk to us about this mindset shift. that you outlined in this chapter. And also, I want to know if you've seen people implement it and it be successful. You can read any book about like, here's how to do X, Y, or Z.

But you have to figure out your Y and what's holding you back first before you do anything or nothing that I teach you is actually going to stick. And so I consciously started the book with this trip to Abitha because it was important for me to take my reader on a journey to understand where are their financials. financial biases and what are the factors that are contributing to them having not being control of their finances up until this point? It's this amazing framework that I've used for years with my audience. I used to have courses and we would use it whenever I work with people one-on-one, I use

it. And it's fun because, of course, it's called Abiza, which I feel like is sort of a pillar, Mrs. Dow Jones, like, just trying to make things more fun and, like, feel glamorous. Like, we're not, like, working on our financial mindsets. We're going to Abiza. Like, how fun is that? But it really does work, especially, and it's really important because your financial relationship is sort of ingrained by the time that you're seven years old. So you have to do a little bit of self-work if you want to put yourself in the position for the rules of building wealth to stick.

Hey, Lisa, we know this is an acronym. Can you break down briefly what that acronym stands for? Yes. So Abiza stands for Identify, Blame, Interrupt, Jeuge, and Act. and basically I walk you through in the book, the steps you have to take for each of those. But by the time that you're done with that chapter, you'll have a really good understanding

of how you view money, what you want to shift about how you view money, what is holding you back. And it also gives you all about actionable advice. So really actionable advice in the moment every day for you to then be improving your financial relationship. And then, of course, act is then the rest of the book because I give you all of the actual actions.

But, you know, if we try to change behavior without changing belief, it never sticks. Haley, I'd love to hear an example of how you've implemented the Abiza framework in your own life and what difference is made for you. This has made such a big difference for me. It let me completely break down what I was holding onto from my childhood.

Like, what I realized basically, because part of the work in Abiza is to figure out your first money memory. You go back in time and they seem so, like trivial now, but I was maybe around like seven or eight, and I really wanted to get a snack at school, but I didn't want to ask anyone for the money. And I didn't know how to like make money or get money on my own. And so I just like took some dollars from, we have this little cup above the laundry machine, like a plastic container. And it was sort of like a shameful thing that I would, you know,

grab them for the snacks. But I realized in looking back and doing the framework of a visa, like, oh, that explains why I was looking outside of myself. always for money versus counting on myself to actually build financial independence, you know, on my own. I was not empowered at all to, you know, I didn't have an allowance. I didn't really understand like how things worked. And so I was sort of just like taking things secretly and like it was ever really acknowledged or talked about. And so it created the shame spiral. And that was something that I really had to work through.

All right. Let's move on to the chapter Secure the Damn Bag. Love, Love, Love, Love the title of This Chame. chapter. Here you make a good point about it being more important to increase earning potential versus chasing pennies. And I resonate with this so much because I remember getting to a crossroads where I was earning maybe 40K and then getting the rest of my paycheck after all the deductions and being like, this is just not enough money. There's nowhere for me to cut and I need to earn more. But this concept of like earning more money can feel overwhelming for some people, especially when

they start exploring side hustles and they see maybe Instacart after driving around for, for hours. They only made $5. And my question is, what's a good place for people to start in terms of increasing their income? First of all, I think that we focus so much, especially for women, on cutting back versus earning more. Like, you have to coupon, you have to, you know, skip the latte, skip the avocado toast. But there really is so much to be said for just increasing your earning potential and asking

for more money and finding yourself jobs where you can be paid. because a lot of what happens is we get stuck in sunk cost. I'll see where we've been at a job for a long time. So we think, oh, there's going to be like this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow one day. But really, we're not at a company that's ever really going to be able to increase our salaries like 10, 15 percent every two years. What you're talking about with side hustling is so important. And I talk about this in the book because it's like, okay, say you're a nurse who's working 100 hours a week. at a hospital and you're not making enough money.

You feel at the end of the month, every month, okay, it's hard for me to make ends meet. I really need to be earning more. I feel like so much of the content online just tells you to like, yeah, side hustle, resell everything in your house, like get a job, like doing DoorDash, like start an Etsy store, whatever it is. But it's like, I'm sorry if you're working 100 hours a week, you're going to be so burnt out if you add something more onto your plate, it makes no sense. So a lot of the Secure of the Damn Bad chapter is about taking a step back with my help and examining what are changes that we can make that will get you closer to your goal without you sacrificing your quality of life so much.

So, you know, say you work at a hospital, maybe then you become a private nurse and you could increase your earnings that way. I also talk a lot about this chapter increasing your human capital, which I feel like is underrated. but it really is your biggest asset in the workplace. And so, you know, thinking about what skills can I build to make me more valuable, like either at my current job or somewhere else. I think that it's so important to think through how we can make more money versus always just thinking about cutting back and that if you're creative and thoughtful, which most people never really take the time to think through that,

there are so many roots to a bigger paycheck. Yes. Haley, you have such great advice throughout this book. and I really like the variety of types of financial advice that you give. But I'm wondering if you could leave our listeners with just one thing to do, one piece of actionable advice, what would that be? If you're not having a money date once a month, I would say that's like such a great place to start.

It's something that really shifted my financial life for me too. And I've been doing it for over eight years. I do it religiously once a month. I always say money is a relationship. If you are in a relationship and you never go on dates, it would be a pretty bad relationship. So you need to take time with it. but it's basically, yeah, this set time where you can review your spending, review your income.

It gives you a moment to look through, okay, are there subscriptions that I need to cancel? Like any financial tasks that you need to do can just get piled into that money date, which I think also helps with the anxiety and the fear around taking control of your finances because you can just bucket them away towards them and do it then. It's okay to never want to do your money date, but you have to do it anyways. Like I said, I've done it for eight years. I still, I don't think it's the sort of thing where it's like a habit. Oh, you do it for 21 days and then suddenly you're a new person.

Like, you still might always have resistance towards it, but do it anyways because that's really what's going to push you over the edge. Because once you control your money, you control your life. Yeah. And that's how you enact those changes that get you to where you want to be to make those tough decisions, right? Absolutely. Would you say that you've achieved your rich life before we let you go, Haley?

I think I have in terms of finances, like I say in the book, like, yes, I came from money. but I'm a self-made millionaire to let me have this. And so in that way, I'm so excited about like the money that I have compounding in the market and I'm obsessed with growing wealth through investing. But I will say that something that I really am trying to achieve more of is balance, which I think is hard when you're in your peak earning years, especially when you have hit your stride. And so that's something that I'm working towards.

And that my rich life, I don't think, is just like a number in the bank account. It really is being able to spend time with my family and friends, work on my health, my, you know, have hobbies, all of that. And so I wonder, but basically, I would like to retire soon. So you're part of the fire movement in Haiti. Yes, exactly. No, but I have like cash flow too much. So we'll see where it lands me.

But I get it. I'm having fun for now. Great. Well, Haley Sachs, Mrs. Dow Jones. Congratulations on your new book, Future Rich Person. It was great to talk with you. Thank you so much. In a moment, we're going to talk about how to find a financial planner and also what to do when you're combining finances with your partner.

But first, listener, take a moment and think about where you need some help with your money. Maybe you and your partner have different financial goals and you're not sure how to get on the same page. Or lifestyle creep has gotten out of control and you need help getting your money back on track. Whatever your money question is, we nerds are here to help you. We want you to leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline. at 901, 730, 63373. One more time, that's 901, 730, NERD. You can also email us at podcast at Nerfollat.com

or leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube, and you can also subscribe to our video episodes on YouTube too while you're there. Okay, well, let's get to this episode's money question segment. That's up next. Stay with us. We're back in answering your money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from Annabella, who left us a comment on Spotify.

Hi, I love listening to your podcast. Thank you, Annabella. I'm getting married this year, and I want to hire a financial advisor for my partner and I as we think about how to best combine finances. Can you do a podcast on how to find a good financial advisor to hire?

Thanks, Annabella. Today, Sean and I are taking on your question, Annabella, ourselves. And by the way, I love your name. It's so pretty. Beautiful name. Yeah, it's like a Disney princess. Right.

Annabella really just asked about how to find a good advisor, but I think there are two main parts to their question that I want to focus on. It's really how to find the advisor, like they said, and then also how best to combine finances? So we can start with finding a good advisor? And can I just add, how well-suited are you, Sean, to take on this question? I know, right. You are an advisor and also you are a newly married person who I'm assuming has done some kind of financial combination. Yes and no. I mean, yes, I am an advisor. In case people didn't. No, I'm a CFB. But also, I just got married in the fall. So yeah, extremely well-suited to answer this question. And I'm excited to talk about it. And one thing that really gets me going in the financial planning space is what it means to be a financial advisor. Something people get wrong is thinking that they can just hire anyone who calls themselves a financial advisor and they'll get good advice. The truth is that the term financial advisor is not actually regulated. Anyone can call themselves a financial advisor and just go about,

giving out information and trying to get your money. But that can be really, really risky. It can be. And that's exactly why you, Sean, are going to give us some really strong tips on how to find a good advisor. One of the things I can think of is looking for a credential. So talk to us about that. Yeah. So credentials are super important. The certified financial planner or a CFP credential is the gold standard in financial planning and financial advising. And to become a CFP, that means that someone has gone through rigorous education. They have passed the most difficult exam that I've ever taken in my life. And they are also really importantly, perhaps most importantly, held to a fiduciary standard. And that means that this planner is putting your interests before their own.

Any Joe Schmoe on social media who calls themselves a financial expert isn't held to that same standard. So you just don't know what their interests are really besides, you know, self-profiting. Let's talk about fees, Sean. And I like this one because some people have this myth that financial advisors can be extremely expensive or inaccessible. Yeah, they may not be at all. And there are a few different fee structures to be aware of. Advisors, specifically CFPs, are generally fee only. That's how I practice where I get paid on a per plan basis or by the hour. There's also fee based where you might be generally charging based on the hour. or a plan, but you can also get a commission from some financial products that you offer to people. And a lot of folks might be wary of fee base because they could perceive a conflict of interest

if you're recommending a certain product over another. Although, because we have this fiduciary standard for CFPs, you have to disclose any conflicts of interest, but that's just something to be aware of with fee base versus fee only. And then the other primary fee structure is assets under management. and this is typically where you move your assets over under the planners management, and they take a percentage, maybe 1% of your total amount of assets. That can be more expensive, but you also tend to get more hands-on service. And because this planner is managing all your assets, a lot of people just expect and are able to call up their planner anytime

and get answers to their financial questions. So it really depends on what you want. One isn't necessarily better than the other. I prefer fee only just because it's clear. cleaner for me and I just feel like it's truer to my fiduciary standard. Something else that I love about choosing a financial advisor that I've learned over the years is that every financial advisor specializes in something different sometimes. You could have one that specializes in, I don't know, special needs or neurodivergent people.

Or are there ones who specialize in couples, Sean? There probably are, honestly, people who work with a lot of couples. I think well-versed planners have experience working with people who have gotten married, stayed married, gotten divorced, maybe gotten remarried, because when you were working with a client over many years, you see them through all these different life phases, but you are right that a lot of planners will have a sort of niche specialty. Mine tends to be the LGBTQ queer community in the Oregon area, because that's just who I care to serve and who I know best. So you want to find someone who can speak to your life experience and also has hopefully worked with some clients

before, so isn't their first rodeo. All right. Now, hiring a financial advisor, what are the steps that people need to take here? Do they look in a directory? Do they ask their friend? Do they ask their bank? Maybe all of the above. I think this is a key part of Annabelle's question is really, how do you find an advisor? Word of mouth is a great resource. I've had referrals from friends who I've held before who've told their friends about me and then their friend reaches out to me. I met someone at a party the other week who we got to talking about how expensive of a watch they wanted to buy. And I was like, well, Well, as a financial planner, I don't know if you want to spend all your money on that. And then they said, wait, you're a planner. Let's get to chatting. So that led to a prospect. So you never know when you'll meet someone who could help you with your finances. And then just a plain old internet search outside of XY planning network can help you too,

just saying financial planners in my area or financial planners for ex-specialty. Just do your research and try to find a few different areas where you can locate planners. One thing that comes to mind is that not every planner is going to be a great fit, Sean. I think of it like when you're looking for a therapist or when you're looking for primary care doctor, you want to consider several things before you choose a financial advisor. So what are some things that people should consider in the vetting process? Yeah. People should not rush into going with the first planner they meet unless they're really confident that it's a right fit. I recommend that people meet with a few different advisors before choosing the one that they want to work with. Because like you said, Elizabeth, this is often an intimate ongoing relationship.

like when you would have with a therapist or a primary care physician, you want to feel like you can talk with this person about anything because generally you're talking about things with a financial planner that you haven't talked about with anyone else before. You want to trust them, you want to feel like you can communicate openly without judgment, and also you want to know that they have the knowledge base to really work through these thorny issues with you. You want to think about their personality and their communication style

and also their financial values. I had to fire a financial planner one time because I realized that we had really misaligned financial values. Wow. Do you want to share any details on that? Yeah, yeah. It wasn't anything too wild, but for me, this was a clear, okay, we're not going to be a match. This was, gosh, almost six years ago now.

And NerdWallet has a wonderful workplace benefit where we can get connected to financial planners. And they just match you with one kind of randomly through the service. So I got paired with a guy. We had a good conversation. I talked about how I just had a big, like, cash outflow. because I had bought my car. And he recommended that I could possibly take out a 401k loan to give myself some more liquid cash.

And I am very anti-401K loan unless you are in an emergency. Yeah. And for me, I had a temporary cash crunch where I didn't have as much as I like to have, but I knew that in a few months I'd be able to save and build back up my savings. So to be recommended to take out a 401k loan for that just seemed like a bad. bad, bad idea. Except for some people, that would be an okay idea. But for me, it's not. And so I said, let me work with someone else. Yeah, good on you for identifying that and being able to see that you guys weren't aligned and then looking for someone who was. So I assume who you're working with

now is a better fit. Yeah, 100%. And that also reminds me that people may well have a benefit like we have internet wallet to work with financial advisors. See if you have someone there because that might be a free route to getting financial planning. Let's look at the when and now, Sean. I hear people all the time, say, for example, I don't need a therapist or a therapist is not for me. Does everybody need a financial advisor or is it for a specific group of people? When should you work with one? The therapy point is so interesting because a lot of times people want to work with a therapist when they're in some kind of crisis to help them resolve what's going on in their life, when in fact, the best time to work with a therapist is when things are kind of going, okay, so you can have a

baseline, have a relationship, and then when something does happen, you're working with someone who already knows your life and can help you process it. Very much the same. with financial planners. You want to work with someone when your finances are doing okay, but you want some extra help. And there are some key times where you might want to consider working with one. Like with Annabella situation, they're about to get married. That's a big life change. Anytime you're going through a significant change, whether it's maybe getting a new job or moving to a new area or marriage or divorce or having a kid, a time when your finances are really going to change. It's helpful to have someone evaluate your circumstances and help you

map out that financial plan because that's also the key element of working with a certified financial planners, they give you a comprehensive financial plan to help you get to where you want to go with your money. So, Elizabeth, I'd like to hear about a time when maybe you decided to work with a financial planner or not based on your life circumstances. Like you, Sean, because I also work at NerdWallet, I have utilized the free financial advisor benefit that we get, and it has been tremendously helpful. Before then, I didn't consider working with a financial advisor because I didn't actually know that you didn't have to work with the one that takes a percentage of your portfolio.

But as I started working at NerdWallet and increasing my knowledge base, I realized, hey, there are fee-only planners. I have been matched with about two different advisors now. The first one, lucky for me, happened to be a great match. She was a woman, and she was very friendly and relatable. And I enjoyed working with her.

But then she just disappeared. So then I was given a guy to work with, and he was okay. But you know what? As I think about it, Sean, I only had one meeting with him. And to be honest, I didn't feel a very deep connection. But I guess I saw it as, well, he's just going to give me financial advice.

And I didn't think any much further than that. So, but those are my only two experiences. Yeah, that can be the downside of working with a planner that comes from one of these workplace benefit services, is that they have a likely very large pool of your colleagues that they're working with. And unless you make a point to say, hey, I want a full comprehensive financial plan. I want you to dig into everything. They're going to give you maybe a more cursory analysis of your finances because they frankly just have to move on to the next client.

Yes, exactly. And then I think also, hmm, the times that I have worked with a financial advisor is like he said, maybe when I'm going through transitionary periods, or just when I need to know that I'm on track. And I kind of need that reassurance that I'm doing the right thing. Those are the two situations where I've used one. Yeah, and a key question everyone should answer

before they work with a financial planner is why now is the right time to work with a financial planner or an advisor? because a lot of times folks sign up to meet with someone and they don't understand that it actually takes work on both sides to get this going. You have to dig through all of your financial information and share it with the planner. You have to have some meetings and really hash things out,

like going to therapy. And if you aren't committed to that journey with someone, then it might not be the right time for you, but get committed to your why. And then you can understand whether this is a good time to do it or not. Let's jump into the second part of Annabella's question, which I find to be a great topic to talk about, which is combining finances when you are married.

Yes. So, Elizabeth, you have been married in the past. You've had many a relationship where you've combined finances or not. Where do you think people should start with this? A chat. I love a good chat and I love some deep, reflective questions. So maybe I do think you need to go deep because I think combining finances is a deep thing. So I think the good place to start is with a cross.

conversation and honest and open one. If you haven't had one already about your money values, you want to talk about things maybe you're afraid of. I know that I hear often from women that they're afraid of maybe kind of losing their financial empowerment if they combine finances with their partner. You want to talk about financial boundaries, your strengths and your weaknesses because my assumption is if you're combining finances, you want to work together as a team and one person may be better at things than the other person. This can also be a good time to outline things like what your debt is, what, you know, you have in your retirement accounts, how much you have in savings, all those kind of good and deep and sometimes uncomfortable topics.

Yeah, if you haven't laid everything out from like your credit score to how much debt you carry to maybe your worst financial mistake, before you get married is really a good time to do that. And you mentioned money values. We talk about that a lot. I think people can have a hard time understanding what their values are in a concrete way. What do you think is a good maybe question to ask or exercise to go through to help people understand what their values are and what their partners might be too. Oh, that's such a good one. Google is such a great resource, and I hate to be simplistic, but it's true. There are so many different kind of questions that you can find online that will help you to explore your money values, but I think a good one that one could ask is like, what was your earliest memory of money, you know?

What was maybe the most traumatic experience or memory that you have with money? When do you feel most fearful about money. How do you feel after you make a money mistake? You can, you know, discover with that question, do you have shame, a lot of shame that you carry around making financial mistakes or do you show yourself grace? So those are some questions people can ask. Yeah. And there are a lot of negative emotions tied up with money. It's important, too, to talk about what makes you feel good around money? Like, what is maybe the best feeling that you get when you spend money or what are you proudest up with what you've done with your finances that can help you uncover your values too. Yeah. And also one that comes to mind as well is how do you want money to

make you feel, right? So is it that you want money like what personal value is it tied to? Do you want money so that you can feel free so that you can feel comfortable so that you can help others? You know, there are different ways kind of to frame that that will help you see how money ties to your own personal values. Yeah. Okay. I want to turn now to checking accounts, combining checking accounts or not. This is a really common topic that people have to broach with someone that they're getting married to or maybe even just moving in with. And you asked earlier whether Garrett and I, my husband and I have combined our finances in any meaningful way since we got married. And the answer is actually, no, we haven't really changed anything. We still have fully separate accounts. I've considered maybe

getting a joint account for things like yard projects or vacations that we want to do together. we just haven't done it yet, but for a lot of folks, it really works out well to have some kind of joint account where you're each putting in maybe a proportional amount of your paychecks based on who's making what amount. And then you retain separate accounts. That last part is really important for financial freedom and independence. And also just so you can have some privacy in relationships. You know, say you want to get your partner a gift, you don't want them seeing that you spent money on that or maybe you just want to buy something and, you know, you know, you just want to buy something and, you know, you know, It's okay that your partner doesn't know about it necessarily. I'm not supporting financial infidelity here or anything. But, you know, I think people maybe undervalue the importance of privacy in all relationships. I would love, love, love to second that. Just because you're becoming one as some people like to say it or merging your finances, it doesn't mean that you lose your individualism.

Sean, I want you to know that you're not alone in terms of not having any joint accounts because actually fewer married people are having joint financial accounts these days. Want to know how I know? How do you know? I found a data point. Of course you did. And it came from the Census Bureau's Survey of Income and Program Participation. And it found that in 2023, 77% of married couples who owned any kind of asset at a financial institution held at least one type of account jointly with their spouse.

But guess what? That is down from 85% in 19%. So fewer people are getting joint accounts. And it's still, you know, over three quarters of couples. It's a lot. But down from 85 percent, that's a significant change. And I wonder if that is related to the push of people wanting to retain their financial independence just in case things go sideways.

I think we're seeing now a lot of the millennials who were growing up, who maybe had divorced parents, myself included, really find value and importance in retaining your own flexibility and independence. That would be my guess also. And it's just a reminder that, again, there isn't one way to do finances in marriage, right? You can choose to combine. You can choose to keep them separate. And that doesn't have to impact your intimacy or love.

Yeah. Well, one area it is helpful to connect with your partner on a pretty deep level is actually budgeting. You want to know what your household income and spending looks like so you can work toward there's longer term financial goals. There are some really helpful apps that can make this easier for you. One is Monarch money that people really enjoy for joint budgeting. And Honeydew is another that caters to couples as well. And Honeydew is another that caters to couples.

That's honey, D-U-E, like a bill is due. Allocating financial responsibilities is something I'm also thinking about that can be helpful for for Annabella, whether you choose to combine your finances or not. Now, Sean, I want to ask you, since at the moment you and your partner, not have any joint accounts, how do you allocate financial responsibilities? Do you just say, hey, you're going to pay the light bill and I'm going to pay for groceries and you pay that out of your respective accounts? Well, our situation is a little funky with Garrett and me because we each have our own properties. So with this place here, we live at Garrett's property in Portland.

He covers all utilities. And then, you know, I earn a little more. So I cover groceries. and it just tends to shake out for us in a way that feels really equitable. But on that end, I also cover all the related expenses to my own property too. So we try to find that balance that is fair for each of us based on our income. If I were to get remarried, I would like to do something similar. But I think I would actually be for a joint account for household expenses. And we could each maybe take a part out of our paycheck. And then everyone else can spend their money on what they want to spend their money on.

because it's none of my business. Yeah. I tend to be the one who spends my money a little bit more loosely. Like we have this patio furniture we've had for years now, and the cushions are getting pretty ratty. So I just bought some new cushions for us. It came out of my household expenses fund. It was a couple hundred dollars.

And I was happy to pay for that because I had the money set aside. So that's just one area where I, because I make a little more, I tend to be more flexible and open to just buying random things for the house. Well, just for the record, Sean, I would love to have a partner like you because you have 12 different accounts and 12 different buckets and I know that we'll be fine. Absolutely. That's the goal at least. Yeah. But it can be helpful to have one person who's maybe more of the ringleader around the finances. And so for me, that's kind of my role as you might expect being a CFP and a host of a finance podcast. So this past year, we filed our taxes jointly for the first time. And that was my responsibility. I, I, I, I, held myself up in the office. I think I told you about this. I locked myself away for like two hours and just did everything. And I kept Garrett posted on how things were looking and, you know, if there were any trouble spots, I ran them by him. But beyond that, like, I'm happy to take on that annoying

task because I have the information to do it. Love what you said about keeping Garrett posted. And I just want to reinforce the importance of knowing what's going on in your finances, no matter which kind of approach that you guys take. If one person is predominantly managing, is still so important for the other partner to know what's going on, know where the financial accounts are, what the passwords are, how much money is in these accounts, because I just hate hearing scenarios where one person is kind of locked out of the finances or oblivious to what's going on financially,

and heavens forbid a partner passes away or, you know, they're being financially abused. You know, they have no access to the resources within the relationship. Yeah, that is such a crucial point, especially when you're working with a financial advisor. Yes, one person might be the one coordinating the meetings and gathering the documents, both parties need to be equally invested in knowing what's going on, because to your point, we see a lot of the times where in a heterosexual couple, the men tend to die younger, right? And the wife may not know what's going on with their finances at all.

And sometimes that leads to a great surprise because you didn't realize that your husband had a bunch of money saved. Sometimes it's the exact opposite, and it can be really devastating. Everyone needs to know what's happening with your finances, despite what traditional gender roles may have dictated around who's leading the financial conversations in the household. Let's talk about life insurance now. That's an important one. How are you and Garrett approaching life insurance now that you are married? Yeah, I up to mine for sure, just because I want to make sure that if something happens to me and vice versa, that we would get enough money coming in from life insurance to cover things like our mortgages. So now that Annabella and their partner are going to be getting

married, you want to make sure that you would have enough money to cover any kind of debt and that the loss of one person, I mean, it's going to be devastating, obviously, but try to mitigate the financial burden of it. And that's why life insurance is an extra important thing to look at when you're getting married. And then with the life insurance policy, it's so important that you put your partner, if that's what you desire as a beneficiary. And that extends to all financial accounts, again, that you would like them to potentially inherit if, in the worst case scenario, you pass away. Yeah. updating beneficiary designations is a really simple financial task. You can log into your checking account, your bank account to do that. With life insurance, it's extra important to review that,

especially if you've been married before because there are so many stories of the ex-wife getting the money from a life insurance policy. And the person who passed away wouldn't have wanted that to happen, but they just forgot to update the beneficiary designation. And then all. the current partner or family is left out to dry, and now they don't have the funds that they would need during their grieving period. Yeah. And this is also something that a good financial planner will be able to flag immediately and take care of for you. Annabella, I hope that we have answered your question sufficiently. Hopefully when you finally do find a financial advisor, you guys can sit down and go through the many subjects that we've had. It's usually not one conversation. It's several conversations to be had. And also, you all are just learning about yourself. financially as a married couple and you can always change your strategy and approach as you go along to what benefits you and what fits you. Yeah, what Elizabeth said. And also, congratulations

on getting married. Please keep us posted on how this goes for you. And if you're feeling nice, you can send us some wedding picks. We'd love to see. We would love that. Yes, okay. All right, well, that's all we have for this episode. Remember a listener that our job is to answer your money question. So please send them our way. You can hit us up on the nerd hotline by texting us or calling us at 901 730 6373. That's 901 730 Nerd. You can also email us at podcast at nerdwalt.com or leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube. And you can also follow us or subscribe. What do they say? Like and subscribe on YouTube. Join us next time to hear about how to save for retirement when you are self-employed. In the meantime, follow Smart Money on your favorite podcast app that includes

Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and IHeartRadio to automatically download new episodes. And here's our brief disclaimer, we are not your financial or investment advisors. This nerdy info is provided for general educational and entertainment purposes and may not apply to your specific circumstances. This episode was produced by Tess Vigland. Hilary Georgie helped with editing. Eve Krogman, Helms, our audio and video production. And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for all their help. And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds.