NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - Points and Miles vs Cash Back: Pick a Credit Card That Matches Your Spending

Episode Date: March 16, 2026

Learn how to choose your next credit card by weighing airline perks, annual fees, and simple cash back rewards. How do you choose a credit card when the options feel endless? Should a family of four choose an airline credit card or a more flexible rewards card? Hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola discuss travel rewards and everyday rewards to help you understand how to match a card to your real spending habits. Joined by credit card Nerd Sara Rathner, they discuss how co-branded airline cards differ from general travel cards, why store cards can be risky if you carry a balance, and how cash back cards can reward everyday spending like groceries and dining. They also discuss budgeting for annual fees, reevaluating cards at renewal time, tracking a sign-up bonus spending deadline without overspending, and what can happen to your credit score if you cancel or downgrade a card. Card benefits, terms and fees can change. For the most up-to-date information about cards mentioned in this episode, read our reviews: NerdWallet’s 2026 Best-Of Awards Winners: Credit Cards Best Travel Credit Cards of March 2026 Best No Annual Fee Credit Cards of March 2026 Atmos Rewards Ascent Review: Well Worth $95 a Year  Chase Sapphire Reserve Review: A High-End, High-Maintenance Card  American Express Platinum Review: Top-Notch Lounge Access, Big Credits  American Express Blue Cash Preferred Review  AmEx Blue Cash Everyday Review: Rewarding, for no annual fee  Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sean, what is your relationship like with credit cards these days? It's the same relationship I've had for a while. I want to keep things simple and I want as much value as possible. Okay, that's fair. I feel like right now we usually have a love-hate relationship, me and credit cards, but right now it's love. And that's because I have finally gotten around teasing air miles. So thank you credit card companies for air miles.

I recently bought a ticket to Barbados. Yay for me. I've also been using my $15 Uber Eats credit. So you're getting all the value you can, yes. I'm trying to get the value. And also, I'm loving the lounge access. But if you ask me again next week, I might have a different response. Yeah, once those annual fees come do, we'll talk about it again.

Why you got to bring that up? Well, today we're going to be chatting about what to do if you're not sure what kind of new credit card you want. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. Now, this episode's question comes from a listener whose name is, Dumb, Liz, like me.

And they sent their question by text. So here's the question. Hi there. My name is Liz, shopping for a new credit card. We are a family of four and can't decide between airline credit card

versus other credit cards available. Would love your advice. All right. I think Liz came to the perfect place because at this point, NerdWallet is basically synonymous with credit card shopping. I mean, we have loads of roundups.

We have lots of reviews that are written unbiased by our talented team of writers here at NerdWallet. So to help us answer Liz's question, we are joined by one of those writers. Dear friend of SmartMoney, Sarah Rathner, welcome back to Smart Money, Sarah. Hey, Sean and Elizabeth, I'm glad to be here. But before Sarah takes us off with all of her knowledge, we have a disclaimer for you all. And that's that we will talk about a few credit card companies that are NerdWallet partners in this episode. But, but, but, but, that does not influence how we discuss them.

Now, the benefits, terms, and fees mentioned were accurate at the time of posting, but things can change. And also some offers may have expired by the time you're listening, but for the latest details, follow the links in the episode description. Thank you for that fabulous disclaimer, Elizabeth. You're more than welcome. All right, so let's dig into the question, guys. We have a simple yet what I think is sometimes a difficult listener question here because you have to make decisions. And I hate making decisions personally, so I feel the listener. And when it comes to credit cards, so much goes into choosing the right one, right?

so it's good to put thought into what the best credit card is for your situation. Now, let's kick off the combo by discussing the different type of credit cards that are out there. There are many. I personally have a mix of travel credit cards and general rewards credit cards. So let's start off with those two, Sarah. All right, yeah. So when we think about travel credit cards, we tend to group them into two different buckets. The first is what we call co-branded credit cards.

Those are the cards for airlines and hotels. They have the names of those airlines and hotels right on the card, so it's really obvious, what kind of card you're carrying. And then we have what we call general travel rewards credit cards. And those are cards that aren't tied to a specific airliner hotel, but they earn points in miles that you can apply toward different kinds of travel purchases. And yes, I realize my voice sounds horrible. It's February and I have yet another cold. I'm sorry. I thought it was like sexy raspy, Sarah.

I'm going to sing Smellycat at the end of this episode. Obviously, travel cards are just one kind of credit card you can choose from. NerdWallet has in-depth comparisons of cards for all different types of financial goals that you might have, and we'll link to those in today's show notes. But to name just a few of these other kinds of cards, besides the travel cards we talked about, if you want some more flexibility with your rewards, you just don't travel as often. Cashback credit cards are an excellent way to get that. You might be looking to build credit.

There are student credit cards and secured credit cards. there for those purposes. Secured credit cards can also serve anybody who is rebuilding their credit. And if you want to save on interest, on existing credit card debt, or you're anticipating a really large purchase that you need to pay back over a long period of time, there are zero percent interest cards for purchases or balance transfer cards that can be helpful if you're paying off debt. Now, if you tend to carry a balance in alternative to a zero percent card, because those are limited time promotions that do eventually end, there are also credit. cards that offer lower interest rates.

Typically credit unions offer these types of cards, so those are worth exploring, too. And so this is just to name the main kinds of credit cards you may encounter as you're making a decision as to what your next credit card will be. But at the same time, there are so many other types of credit cards. Like you can walk into a gap and they're going to say, hey, do you want this credit card? I used to work a gap and had to show these credit cards and felt guilty every time I did it. You should. But also gas credit cards.

So you can get a credit card from pretty much any company nowadays, it seems. Yeah, what you're talking about, we call store credit cards. So those are cards that are co-branded. There's that word again for specific retailers. Those cards are interesting because they tend to be easier to qualify for at a variety of different credit score ranges. So for many people, this could be one of the first credit cards they're able to get. But they notoriously charge high interest rates. I like to think of them as debt traps because these companies just want.

you to be making them money off of the interest that you'd be paying them. Absolutely. So you do want to be mindful of, you know, are you going to get a meaningful discount at a store that you spend a lot of money at? But are you also able to pay those bills in full and on time and avoid that high interest debt? And I just have an off-topic tip for people who find themselves at the counters at Marshalls or Ross and are being offered a credit card. If you have issues saying knowing your people-pleaser, this is the perfect place to practice saying no. So I love declining those credit cards at checkout. Right, because the cashiers, they probably don't want to be shilling it too, but they're told to. So just say no and move

on with the conversation. Otherwise, they're going to be filling out a forum for who knows how long. And no one wants to do that when they're checking out at the store. Okay, well, let's focus specifically on airline cards versus other cards because that's what our listener, Liz, asked about. So, Sarah, what are the pros and cons of airline cards? So airline cards are often a better. better option if you fly a particular airline a lot. If you live in a city that's a hub for a specific airline, think Miami or Dallas for American Airlines or Chicago for United or Atlanta for Delta, then you might fly one particular airline most of the time you travel. And that's a really great way to tell if that card might be a good fit for you. But if you live in a city like I do

that's not predominantly served by one particular airline and you tend to pop around on different airlines, you might want to consider something with a little bit more flexibility because you're not going to do the bulk of your flying on one particular airline. But there are other things to consider, too. Like I said, I don't live in a Hub City. I still carry airline cards because they do have other perks that I find valuable and meaningful. A big one, free checked bags. Liz, you mentioned you're a family of four. I don't know how old your children are. But if you're anything like me, you want to shed as much stuff at the checkout gate or right at the airport tour as possible and not Schlep's many suitcases through the airport along with your reluctant children. So I check bags.

It's very easy to offset a card's annual fee just on bag fees alone. And that's something we can continue talking about later of offsetting these fees. Another thing that you can get with airline cards is early boarding. Again, with kids, that could be really helpful. Sometimes they'll get you access to airport lounges, which can be really nice. You can get lots of free snacks before you you board your flight. So it really depends on what a card offers. And in addition, of course, to all of those extra perks, you also earn miles on the card.

And those are miles that you can cash in later on for discounted travel. When you're buying four plane tickets, that means a lot. Yeah, I recently got my first airline-specific credit card. This is the Alaska Atmost card. I got this in August, I want to say. It was like, you've been holding out on me. I know. Yeah, because Sean's always talking, you know, things

about me having many credit cards with fees. So how many credit cards and fees you got now, Sean? I have two, but I'm about to cancel one of them because I don't like it anymore. But I'm actually really enjoying this Alaska credit card because of all the perks it has, like free check bags. You can get a companion fair where you're basically just paying taxes and fees and you can have someone fly with you essentially for free beyond those fees. And beyond that, I like the airport lounge here at PDX for Alaska. It's very nice. I feel like I've really kind of elevated my travel game getting this airline-specific credit card. Welcome to the other side.

Thank you. And Sarah, this makes me wonder, too, how many credit cards do you have? Oh, God. I don't know. She lost count at this point. I've lost count. I should also say I don't have any credit card debt, okay? Because it always sounds when you carry a lot of credit cards. It sounds like you're in over your head. No.

I have this under control, okay? It's also your job to be digging into all these cards. So it makes sense that you have a lot of them. Yeah, I have to experiment. And so when Liz asks a question about what card to get next, I'm coming from a place of personal experience. That's right. Yes. Okay. Well, let's talk about the drawbacks to these travel credit cards because there are some, specifically the fees that you mentioned before, the annual fees. Yeah. A lot of these cards charge annual fees. And we're starting to see triple digit annual fees out of some of these airline cards, $150 and up. Some cards are even several hundred dollars. And so obviously, the higher the fee, the more benefits you get. So it could be worth it to you.

you to pay the fee if you take advantage of a lot of those valuable benefits. But if you don't, then you're paying money for nothing. You might want to consider a lower fee version of the card or another card entirely. And it really just depends on how you handle a particular card. And that's an individual decision. When that comes to mind here is the Chase Sapphire Reserve. They made a lot of changes to this card last year. The annual fee, what is it, around $800, Sarah? Is that correct? So you can make this card worth that amount, but you have to work a lot harder to get that value. I think at this point you basically need a spreadsheet that track all of the monthly benefits, the quarterly changes that might be happening to the card too, to make sure that you are getting around $800 worth back from

what you're paying. Yeah, and that's a thing to think about when you are considering any sort of rewards card, especially the travel cards, because something that I've seen that's a bit of a trend is that these rewards programs are getting really complicated, not just with general travel rewards credit cards, but also some airline cards too. They're doing the coupon book thing, that's what we've been calling it, where a lot of the value that you get out of the card comes from these little statement credits that you can get throughout,

you know, once a month, twice a year, once a year, for very specific purchases, either with a specific retailer, or it'll be like a hotel credit or a travel, credit if you book through the credit cards travel portal, things like that. And so if you love a deal and you love shopping with a coupon and you're happy to keep track of what's available and it gives you that dopamine hit every time you get that $10 statement credit and you're able to chip away meaningfully at your annual fee, great. That's a sign that that's a good card for you. If the whole

thing makes you exhausted and you just want to go back to bed and put your head under a blanket, and that's a sign that you shouldn't get a card like that because you're not going to be happy with it. I'm far too lazy to be sorting through all these various ever-changing benefits. And I will tell you that it's okay to admit that you're lazy or you're not interested in it. I know that in the credit card world, if you look on Reddit, everybody's like optimizing and maximizing and keeping spreadsheets and like having this whole like contest with each other, I write about credit cards for a living and this stuff exhausts me. So it's okay as a layperson to admit to yourself and to your family. I don't want to keep track of like the administrative complication of this particular card. I don't care.

I want something easy and rewarding. And you know what? Those cards exist too and it's totally fine to pick them instead. And I have a real life example. I will also call out these credit card companies for giving us discounts and coupons. I put in quotes to things that are expensive, more expensive than I would buy in my everyday life. So I'll give you a real life example. I'm going to this event called Trap Karaoke.

I get two Stubhub credits a year with my chase cards. So I was like, well, let me start using it, you know? And I saw on Stubhub the ticket for $150, which is the equivalent of the first credit for the year that you get. On the actual website for the event, do you want to guess how much the ticket was going for? Less than $150? $85. So you have to weigh out again, you know, yes, you're getting a restaurant credit or a hotel credit. But, you know, do you really want to pay that price and would you really shop there or stay there anyway?

So I think people should factor that into. Spending a lot of money to save a little bit of money on something you probably weren't going to buy anyway is not saving money. It's not. It's being tricked by a company that wants you to spend money. Exactly. That's girl math. All right. Also, for anybody out there who wants to learn more about this, NerdWallit does do roundups of low and no annual fee cards for those who used to be like Sean.

are not here for the annual fees. And we're going to link those in the episode description. I don't know about you, but I can feel overwhelmed when I have like 20 different credit card options and factors to choose from. So how can Liz narrow this down and think through choosing the different types of credit cards? What's the most simple way for her to think through this? Think about how you want to use any of the rewards you would earn. And also think about where most of your money is going because the ideal card

rewards you the most where you spend the most money. So if you want travel rewards and you spend a lot on groceries and dining out as a family of four, then you want to find the card in the middle of the Venn diagram that earns a lot on dining purchases and also earns travel rewards. So right off the bat, you're narrowing down that list. You're not looking at hundreds of credit cards anymore. Now you're looking at a much shorter list of credit cards. And from there, you can say, start asking yourself other questions. Am I willing to pay an annual fee? If I'm willing to pay a fee, is there a fee level that's too high? What's my upper limit here? You might cut out a couple more cards that way. So think about it as this process of elimination. And once you actually ask yourself

a couple of questions, you're not going to be swimming in a sea of credit card options. You're probably going to be down to maybe five. And that's a much easier decision to make. Absolutely. And then I'm thinking, I know we focus a lot on travel here, but as a family, of four, what are some other factors that Liz should consider? I personally have an American Express Blue Cash Rewards card, and it gives me good rewards on groceries. As a family of two over here with a boy that eats a lot, I spend a lot on food. Yeah, my kid eats a lot too, and it's like shocking. God, and they just keep eating. Like, they keep having to eat multiple times a day, and it's like, God, they just keep. And then I have to feed myself. It's just like,

all I do is plan meals. And so maybe you might want to think about how can I save money day to day. expensive, groceries are expensive, going out to eat as expensive. Maybe your credit card can be a way to get a little bit more value for every dollar you spend, where you spend it. And so that's where you can look at cashback cards. You mentioned the American Express. There are two versions of that card, the blue cash preferred and the blue cash every day. Those types of cards earn rewards more on everyday spending. Groceries, streaming service subscriptions. If you've got kids, you probably have a few of those. Commuting expenses, so gas, sometimes public trade. transit and even other things like garage fares and tolls and things like that. So there are cards

out there that are quite rewarding for those everyday purchases. And that can be a really great way to get some money back on all the things you were going to purchase anyway. For a long time, cashback was the only way I went with my credit cards because they're just simple. You can get a pretty good reward rate depending on which card you have and your spending categories. And there are some great cards that don't have annual fees. So checked all the boxes for me. Okay, well, we'll be back in a moment with more of this credit card conversation. Stay with us. All right, so Sarah, let's talk about how to cover the cost of annual fees. I think sinking funds could be a good tool here. What's your thought on that? A big one is knowing when the annual fee is due, and that has to do with when you applied for the card and got it in the first place. It's going to be, you know, typically do right at the time you get that card. It'll be on your first statement. And then a year later, you're charged that fee again. So that's something to budget for. Another thing that I like to.

think about is I use when the annual fee is due as a time to evaluate whether or not I want to keep the card the year after. And once the fee gets charged, you have 30 days to cancel the card or downgrade it to a no-fee version of the card. So once that fee hits your statement, maybe it's time to call the number on the back of your card and see what your options are. There might come a point in time where a card that you got a couple years ago that made sense for you at the time is just no longer valuable for you anymore. You're not using up all those perks. So you're paying that fee for no reason. And that's why it's a good idea to evaluate these things once a year when the fees do. Yeah, I actually am in that same situation right now.

I have a travel credit card that I took out a couple of years back. The annual fee is coming due in a few months in August. And I know I'm going to cancel it, in part because my new travel credit card that has an annual fee is also coming due in August. And I don't want to be paying $700 in fees in a single month. So I'll save myself 200-ish and be using a card that actually more aligns with how I'm traveling and spending money now. I'm also going to be canceling a card. Dum-Dum. So I did not know when the renewal fee was.

I had to call them for them to tell me. And I have that, what did you call it? Sarah co-branded card for American Airlines. And it no longer serves me because now that I live in Houston, most of the flights I take, American Airlines doesn't have direct flights. And I have access to other loungeways because I have 10 million other travel credit cards.

So it just is not really serving anymore. So I'm happy to get back, I believe, about $700. Oh, wow. Okay. I know one thing people get concerned about when it comes to canceling cards is the hit to their credit score. They should know that their credit score will take a hit in part because you're going to have a lower credit utilization. Your credit history might be shorter, but it's often going to be temporary. And I would say it's well worth the $200 plus dollars you'd probably be saving to have a slightly lower credit score, at least for a little bit. Maybe if you're applying for a loan, like a car loan or mortgage or something in the next couple weeks, maybe it's a good time to just. sort of hunker down and not cancel any cards, so you don't have to have conversations about that with the loan officer. But otherwise, if that's not on the horizon for you, there are times

where it's totally appropriate to cancel a card. Elizabeth, you make up a really excellent point that you moved to a place that was not served by an airline that you previously flew more often. So anytime you have a big life change, like a relocation, a major change to your income because of a promotion or a new job, having children, getting married, getting divorced. Those are all really good times to look at the cards that you're carrying and ask yourself if there's still a good fit for your life as it is now. Oh, guys, thank you for that, Sarah. You know, I just always have a little side quest story.

And let me tell you, I got the American Express Platinum card. And one of the lures for me was the sign-up bonus. Oh, here's me telling my business, just to show you all out of you two. This sign-up bonus was maybe like 70,000, you know, points. I was like, okay, I can hit this easily. And at the time, my son was in private school. So I was like, I can hit this easily. Do you guys think I hit that easily?

I'm guessing you didn't. I'm guessing no, because of how you're telling the story. I missed it by a hair. And that is because, one, I did not keep track of when the six-month period was. And two, I didn't do the work of saying, okay, I'm taking him out of private school. So I should move all my other expenses to that card. to make sure that I get it. So that really, really broke my heart

because it's like that annual fee is high too, okay? And then now I had annual fee and no bonus points. So I'll go into the question out. Worst to both worlds there, Elizabeth. Wow. I know. So here's the question. A lot of airline credit cards do come with big sign-up bonuses. Learn for me.

Don't be like me. Don't get the card and not get the bonus, okay? But how should Liz think about those in case she does go for a credit card with a sign-up bonus. Should a welcome offer be the deciding factor, or is that something family should treat as a short-term perk? So you bring up an excellent point. A lot of credit cards will offer a welcome bonus that could be worth, you know, a couple hundred dollars when redeemed for travel. Some cashback cards have welcome bonuses that are worth typically $150 to $300. And you have to

hit a spending minimum in a set period of time to earn the bonus. So you might see spend $3,000 in the first three months or spend $6,000 in the first three months or sometimes you have the first six months. And so the thing to keep in mind is, can you easily hit that spending minimum with your typical spending or do you have some sort of planned large expense that you can use that card for that will get you most of the way there? Like you know you have. have car repairs coming up. Maybe you're doing a renovation on your home. Maybe you even have some big medical bills. I got some credit card sign-up bonuses for my C-section, you guys. Let me tell you. Wow. Yeah. Gain for your pain. I love it. That was seven grand out of pocket. So Mama was getting

some points, okay? So if anybody's expecting a baby this year, that's my life hack. Follow me for more parenting tips. Part of why I took out my credit card last August was because I had my wedding and my honeymoon coming up. And I knew that between those two expenses, I was going to be spending a lot. of money and I very easily hit my sign-up bonus. With money I was already planning to spend, I'd already had money tucked away to cover these expenses anyway, so it worked out really well for me. Yeah, planning your wedding is a great time to sign up for rewards cards when you're making those big catering deposits. Even booking travel for bachelor or bachelorette parties, you're probably having a pretty high spending period of time. And so, yeah, and then you have

a trip coming up in the form of your honeymoon. So I definitely, the year I got married, we signed up for some rewards cards so we could book our honeymoon on point. So that's a great time to do it. So yeah, big life changes. Great time to consider whether or not a rewards card is a good thing for you. But even for everyday spending, you know, a sign-up bonus is $3,000 in the first three months and you easily charge $1,000 or more to your credit card every month because you use your card for most of your spending, then that's probably something that's not going to be too big of a lift for you. But you definitely want to be mindful of timing your spending. so you hit it within the deadline of that spending minimum for the purposes of that bonus.

Some card issuers have added features to their apps that allow you to track your progress when it comes to how much of your spending minimum you have spent and how much more you have to go. And I really love these features. I'll specifically call out Chase. They have a graphic on their app. So if you're working on a sign-up bonus for a new credit card, you can actually see I still have to spend $632 by May 3rd to earn the bonus. That's a really helpful piece of information to have.

So I know that I'm on track. Other card issuers are doing this more. I've spoken to industry experts who have spoken to me at length about the better user experience that's coming to credit card apps, that's allowing cardholders to see more information that they need to make decisions. And I really love that because I think it's really consumer-friendly. It takes a lot of the guessing out of the equation of how much you need to spend when, which can help you stop over spending too. I'll also, of course, add on as you are working to get the sign-up bonus, don't spend money that you don't need to be spending just to hit that sign-up bonus.

And please make sure you have cash to cover it because I think we mentioned this earlier. These cards have often very high interest rates and can lead to a debt spiral. So please avoid that if you can. Yep. And if you are in debt or think you might get into debt, don't get a rewards card because the interest you're going to pay on that debt is going to wipe out the money. value of your rewards in a couple months. Don't do it. In that case, maybe look at a balanced transfer card in that case.

Exactly. Wow, guys. Well, discussing all these different credit card types and all this, you know, credit card chit chat has evoked some emotions for me. And yes, I'm having a deep moment inside a conversation about credit cards. I'm just now going down memory lane and I'm thinking about my first credit card ever. And it was one that had zero perks and also zero annual fee. And I got my first credit card really just to build up my credit.

So as you mentioned earlier, Sarah, it was a secure credit card. And so I had to, you know, pay on it every month in order to build up my credit. And then, you know, as time has gone on, I have, you know, travel credit cards. I have rewards credit cards for, like I said, groceries. And who knows where I'll go next? So you guys, tell me about your first credit cards and kind of like what your journey with credit cards has been like. Oh, it was a card I had in college.

Yeah, very no frills. It had like a $500 credit limit. And the first semester I was in college, I maxed it out buying textbooks. And then as I got older and was managing my money more independently than I was able to qualify for more credit cards that had perks. So that was my evolution. So it started really simply and now I don't even know how many open credit cards I have. My beginning is kind of similar to yours there. I took out a credit card in college that I believe was just advertised for college students who were building their

credit. My credit limit was around $200, which is perfect for me because I took out this card to buy an iPhone, which back then cost $200. So maybe not as responsible a purchase as textbooks, but I did enjoy that iPhone 5 that I had way back when. And it took me a couple years to pay it off because I was so broke and didn't really know what having a credit card entail in terms of having to pay it off. But eventually I did. I put that card away for a long time. Didn't get a new one until I started working in nerd wallet a number of years later because I was just wary of getting into debt. And ever since then, I've been more responsible, of course. And now I'm where I am today where I have a very expensive travel credit card that I adore. Oh my God, guys. I just

realize, Sean, as you tell that story, no, my first credit card was in London as a college student like you. And I bought clothes and got myself into debt. And I also had no clue what the heck I was doing. So there's that. But hey, we've come a long way. That's like a tale as old as time. Yeah. Predatory companies going after college students to get the bunny they don't have. If anybody hears listening and you have like teenage kids, please teach your kids how credit cards work before they have their own. Because you don't know how many times I hear the story of I got my first credit card and I immediately got into debt because I didn't know it wasn't free money. All right. Thank you so much, Sarah, for coming on. I didn't know that a conversation about choosing a credit card could be so fun and engaging. So thank you. Oh, you should see you the my team Slack channel. We do this every day.

I'm sure you do. Well, Sarah, thank you for coming on, and we're going to have you read us out. Can you help us with the CTA for our listeners here? I will, and it's going to sound awesome and scratchy. To have the nerds answer your money question, call or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730 NERD. You can also email us at podcast at nerdwala.com. And you can also leave us a comment on YouTube or Spotify.

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