NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - The Price Isn’t Right: How to Stop Overspending and Stay Debt-Free

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

Break free from debt cycles and rethink your spending habits with tips on no-buy challenges and financial therapy. How can you stop falling into a cycle of paying off debt, only to rack it back up again? What is a no-buy year, and how can it help you control your spending? Hosts Sean Pyles and Elizabeth Ayoola discuss strategies for breaking unhealthy spending patterns and staying out of debt for good. They begin with a conversation about the benefits of a no-buy year with NerdWallet personal finance writer Amanda Barroso, who shares tips on setting clear spending rules, resisting impulse purchases, and tracking progress to reinforce financial discipline. Then, Sean welcomes co-host Sara Rathner and personal finance Nerd Melissa Lambarena to dive into a listener’s struggle with recurring credit card debt. They discuss the psychological factors behind compulsive spending, the benefits of financial therapy, and practical steps to curb overspending, including strategies for budgeting, limiting credit card use, and practicing delayed gratification. Read NerdWallet’s write-up of the best no balance transfer fee credit cards to help you compare your options for ways to climb out of debt: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/credit-cards/best-no-balance-transfer-fee-credit-cards  In their conversation, the Nerds discuss: credit card debt, how to stop overspending, no-buy year, budgeting tips, financial therapy, money habits, debt cycle, breaking bad money habits, impulse spending, debt-free living, financial discipline, how to stop using credit cards, saving money strategies, debt management, mindful spending, financial goals, spending freeze, personal finance tips, credit card traps, emotional spending, how to budget, debt repayment, how to stay out of debt, no-spend challenge, frugal living, debt-free journey, saving money on shopping, financial accountability, budget planner, financial self-control, spending detox, credit card debt help, how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, best budgeting methods, overcoming debt, financial self-awareness, debt-free motivation, and how to track spending habits. To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend.

Do you ever find yourself doing something you know is bad for you, but you just can't seem to stop? And what if that something is harming your personal and financial lives? This episode will help you break that bad habit for good. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayola. This episode, I'm joined by Sarah Rathner to answer a listener's question about how

to stop a debt spiral from blowing up their life. But first, we are going to talk about what you can get from doing a low or no by year. So here to talk with us about this is NerdWallet personal finance writer, Amanda Barroso. Amanda, welcome back to Smart Money. Hi there, Shawn and Elizabeth. Thanks so much for having me back. All right, Amanda. So to start, can you lay out exactly how a no or low buy

year works? And what's your goal? So the gist of a low buy or no buy is to create one or more spending goals for yourself and to stick to those goals for a certain period of time. So it could be a year like what I'm trying to do here, but it could also be shorter like a month. If you're anything like me, your social media feeds were full of people doing low-buy or no-buy challenges in December, at least sort of setting up their

challenges for the new year. As I was scrolling through those videos, it really got me thinking about my own spending habits and what goals I wanted to set for myself in the new year. Cutting back on areas of overspending and encouraging more mindful consumption are my two main goals, but there are others that you could pick too, like reducing clutter or making more ethical consumption choices. So it seems like the overarching goal of a low or a no buy, however you want to do it, is to really reset kind of from the ground up how you are thinking

about your spending habits. That sounds right, yeah. What are the specific rules guiding your no buy year, Amanda? This is a tough question. This is like something I really sat and was trying to be really conscientious about. I think if I had to sum up my big goal for this year it would be this. Like this is sort of like

my mission statement. I want to have less financial stress, a more thoughtfully curated life, and the freedom to plan new experiences without guilt. So that's my little mission statement. One of my biggest goals for the year is not buying any new clothes. I'm allowing myself to thrift clothes or to buy second hand, but the items that I purchase, this is the rub, the items that I purchase have to be made of better quality than what I currently have. So we're talking 100% cotton, we're talking wool, we're talking cashmere, silk, denim, no more plastic clothes. I really want to build a closet that I love and that also reflects

my personal style. And you know, it's changed a lot. I have two kids, I just turned 40 last year. And so I've just sort of decided I'm not going to be spending any money on plastic clothes anymore. Right? The other thing is non essential items. So makeup, perfume, like unless I need to replace something, I'm not buying it this year. I'm also putting a moratorium on household decor. And listen, Home Goods used to love to see me coming. We have everything we need in this house to make it cozy, to make it comfortable. I can still take advantage of thrift stores to purchase items, but I'm looking to be more intentional and less susceptible to trends.

And maybe you can feel me on that one. Yeah, I mean, I also feel like you just saying, we have everything we need is such a good mantra in general. Anytime you wanna buy something, look at what you have, realize that you probably have what you need already. Amanda, anything else for your no buy plan? The same goes for new books. I love to read, and I would say it's one of my biggest hobbies.

And really, I want to have a robust home library that reflects a wide range of genres and topics, but books are free at the library. Did you guys know this? Or on your own bookshelves. Look at the books you've already purchased. Listen, don't attack me, Sean, about my TBR. I hear you. I hear you. Speaking of attacking, Amanda, I feel like you're screaming at me with the no new clothes thing, okay? Okay.

So I definitely felt that. But Amanda, have you heard of the Libby app? You know, I have. And in fact, it's downloaded onto my phone. Thank you, ma'am. I hear it allows you to borrow ebooks and audiobooks from your local library. But if the book you want isn't available on Libby, then you can just check thriftbooks.com for inexpensive used books. I have heard Libby is great. And it is true that there are used bookstores in town that I could take advantage of. You mentioned thriftbooks. I love online discount booksellers, especially for kids' seasonal books. You can catch me at night scrolling and just seeing what I can pick up there.

So those are all super great tips. And speaking of buying things for my kids, the next rule is going to be hard for me and maybe other parents can relate. Here's the rule, no new kids' toys unless it's like a birthday or a holiday. Elizabeth, now listen. I tend to splurge on my kids and I don't know how you feel about your son but like I buy them this toy, we're out, you know, can I mommy, can I have this? And they end up playing with the new toy for approximately six hours and then ditching it and the kids have more than enough. And I think what I've

decided is that I'm going to focus on toy rotation. So putting some toys away in the closet and every few weeks, freshening them up, putting some things away, bringing some new things out. So listen, as far as they're concerned, they're going to feel like they're getting new toys all the time anyway. It's just stuff they already have that's been in the closet. All right. So honestly, I haven't bought my son a new toy in a while for similar reasons. And every time he asked me for a new toy, I tell him to play with the ones that he has first, especially the ones that I stepped on. It works like magic. And since this is a space where we listen, but we don't judge, I am currently stewing

about buying him a Nintendo Switch for his birthday. He begged for it for a year straight only to watch it collect dust on my office desk. These are hard lessons to learn. Elizabeth, you may not know this, but the Switch 2 is coming out in just a couple of months, so I'm pretty sure you're going to have to buy that for yourself as well. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's a devastating lesson to learn as a parent.

I have my similar ones to learn about. The thing that they begged for now, simply collecting dust in the corner. It's tough. So, Amanda, earlier this year on the podcast, we talked about things that we wanted to leave behind in 2024. And mine was leaving behind overly restrictive financial rules because I always end up rebelling against myself. I imagine that some folks listening might wonder whether, Amanda, whether your rules are sustainable or what kind of wiggle room there might be in these rules. Okay, so the last thing that I want to do is set myself up to fail, right? Life is hard enough.

So I've carved out like pre-planned days or events where I'm giving myself permission to spend. For example, my husband and I have already booked this trip to go to the mountains for my birthday in October. And the town that we're staying at is like this little mountain town known for cute antique shops and boutiques. So I've already told myself, yes, it's January, but like Amanda, you can shop while you're there. For some reason, mentally, that feels nice, knowing that I have that permission.

We're also going to go to the Masters Golf Tournament in April, and I'm definitely going to get some little swag, some goodies from the gift shop. Thinking about dining out or taking out, for some people, this is like really high on their list of rules. But as parents of small children, my husband and I don't eat out much, or we don't do that much takeout. We're already kind of frugal when it comes to, you know, our grocery budget and things like that. So it's already kind of a treat, but I'm not going to be depriving myself of that unless it starts to feel like a financial problem. Then I'll reassess. And I think that that's the key is that you have to think about it as sort of like a living contract with yourself. So if other financial problem pain points appear, then you can change the rules on yourself.

And so that's where I stand on take out and dining out. But for some people, that might be top of the list. Amanda, I love that you have a plan for how you're going to achieve this because I'm not even going to lie to you. I thought about doing a no-spend January and I probably failed within the first week. So with that in mind, I do want to know why did you choose a year and how are you going to be tracking your progress and making sure you're on track? And also like do you have any accountability measures in

place? I chose a year because I really really wanted to fundamentally change my relationship with spending, with scrolling online, with being influenced. And I just felt like a month might not actually break through what is going on in my brain. And the year gives me a chance to make a big financial impact. When I say it in my mission statement, like I want to have planned experiences without guilt, I want a year's worth of savings on stuff that, you know, like plastic sweaters that I might have bought or whatever to go toward meaningful experiences, travel, taking my kids places, going to concerts, things that are going to be lasting memory. So

that's why I chose a year. In terms of tracking my progress, I am maybe still one of the few weirdos out there who has a paper planner. On the month days, every day that I succeed, that I keep my rules intact, I cross through in green. And if there's a day where I slip up, I'm going to highlight it and put the amount of money that I spent. I will report. I logged into my banking app this weekend to pay a bill. And when I went to my credit card, you know, usually it lists your transaction history,

y'all, there was nothing there for the first time. Let me tell you, I really felt so proud of myself. Obviously, another piece of accountability is just checking in. I don't know if you've ever felt nervous to log into your bank account. This is sort of shifting that like I almost feel proud to log in. So I've also started a note in my phone called What I Wanted to Buy But Didn't, and it's sort of hilarious, and it is a wild ride through Amanda's emotional journey of trying not to be influenced by people on the Internet. So I've been jotting down the things that I wanted to buy and how much they cost.

And so maybe monthly, I don't know, I'll total up the money and just see like what did I save by not impulsively buying those things. And then I thought to myself, you know what, as birthday come up, as Christmas comes up, and people ask me, well, what do you want for Christmas? What do you want for your birthday? I'm going to have a list already ready to go. The other piece of the list is I kind of just want to remind myself that it's okay to get comfortable with the idea of wanting something but not immediately buying it for myself. I feel like as adults with jobs, if there's something that we want, we tend to buy it for ourselves. But maybe I just need to sit in that discomfort of saying like, I want that, but I'm not going to have it right now. There is something about delayed gratification

that makes you feel like very responsible with your spending habits. Yeah. I saw this funny meme on maybe Instagram that was like, treat yourself and I never stopped treating myself after. So that's how I feel sometimes. Yeah.

Well, Amanda, after a whole year of changing your spending habits in this pretty dramatic way, how will you know whether it was a success? Listen, if I can hire a house cleaner, I say this jokingly, but I really want to feel more in control of what comes into my home and I want to use the money that I would have spent on just like stuff to help solve this other pain point in my life, which is cleaning my house. That would free up time, energy, anger, all of these things that

every time I have to scrub my shower I cycle through. But you know I'm also hoping to use the time I spent online shopping to reinvest into building a community and hobbies. Shopping is not a hobby even though I think I might have described it that way like Amanda what are your hobbies? Oh I like to shop. It's not a hobby. I want to put my energy into relationships and doing things that I love, not making returns to Old Navy. And I'm not here to slander Old Navy. But when the woman at the cash register begins to recognize you, which is something that happened to me, like I knew something had to change. And then becoming uneasily influenced, I think is going to be another huge marker of my success. Why am I letting strangers on the internet tell me what I need?

I want to give them less power and space in my brain without giving up the internet altogether. I've got to figure out how to strike that balance. There's a lot of community to be had online, but being online doesn't mean that I need to be spending money. Yeah, one resource for that is the anti-consumption subreddit. I find that to be a really vibrant place for folks to talk and share tips for not spending or consuming as much. I love that. I need to join that.

Me too. Well, Amanda, if folks are interested in starting a no buy year or maybe just a month, what's your advice for them? Where should they start? Paying attention to what you have too much of might be a good indication of where you're overspending. So do you have a shelf full of unburned candles or like a cabinet full of unopened lotion bottles? Do you have clothes in your closet that still have tags on them?

I took out a sweater the other day that had a tag from like two years ago. So, you know, no judgment. When it comes to setting your rules, I found it really, really helpful to see what others on social media were doing. Just searching for low buy or no buy in the search bar turns up tons of users who are participating in the same kinds of challenges. You could watch their videos, see what rules resonate with you. It's also nice to plug into these spaces so you can feel a sense of solidarity and accountability.

Amanda, I am inspired, okay? And I hope that listeners are too. So, Amanda Borosso, thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, y'all. All right, we're about to get into this episode's Money Questions segment, but before we do that, listener, you know what time it is. It's that part of the show where we ask you to take a moment and think about where you could use a little nerdy financial wisdom. Maybe you're feeling inspired by the last conversation and want to overhaul your spending habits but want a little more guidance. Or maybe you're preparing to buy a home later this year and want to make sure your credit is in good shape. Whatever your money question, we nerds can help you. Leave us a voicemail or text us on the nerd hotline at 901-730-6373, that's 901-730-NERD,

or email us at podcastatnerdwallet.com. And we're planning to talk with even more of you live on the podcast this year, so if you want to join us to talk about your money question, just let us know. One more time, leave us a voicemail or text us on the Nerd Hotline at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. Or you can email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com. Okay, now let's get to this episode's Money Question segment where I'm joined by Sarah Rathner to help a listener break a destructive debt habit. That's coming up in a moment.

Stay with us. We're back and answering your real world money questions to help you make smarter financial decisions. This episode's question comes from a listener's text message. Here it is. I have had basically nonstop credit card debt since I was 18 years old and got my first credit card. I'm 40 now. I go through the cycle of racking up thousands of dollars on my credit card and maintaining it for years. About three or four times over the last

20 years, I've basically paid off all my debt, but then I go, oh, perfect time for this expensive vacation or other such irresponsible things and continue to live outside of my means, just to rack up debt again. I've once again paid off all my credit card debt and I desperately don't want to fall back into the cycle and my husband has warned me that I cannot do it again. I need tips on how to live within my means and remain debt free. To help us answer this listener's question, on this episode of the podcast, we're

joined by Melissa Lamborina. Melissa is a personal finance writer whose work has been featured by the Associated Press, The New York Times, Chicago Tribune, The Washington Post, USA Today, and Yahoo Finance, among others. Melissa, welcome. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Melissa, I hope that you are in a comfortable seat because I think we will all be armchair financial therapists this episode, and I'm only really half kidding there. But I'm wondering, what are your initial thoughts about our listeners' long-term debt problem? First, I want to applaud the awareness of the listener in identifying this pattern and repetitive cycle because that's a key first step.

The next step is seeking advice to make a change in their financial journey. So they're already taking these steps, and I think that's a great place to start. It appears that they are aware of what's leading to the debt, but perhaps despite their best efforts, they have not been able to break this cycle. Since it doesn't appear that it's due to an unexpected emergency or perhaps a matter of lack of funds, then I would urge them to consider perhaps seeking financial therapy. And this would be different from seeking the help of a financial coach or advisor who can help you with money management. A financial therapist can help you identify patterns or habits that you might have around

money and dissect your relationship with money. And that can be especially helpful to helping you unlock different things that you might be doing or repetitive cycles. For some people, it can be really hard to admit that they might need a little bit of help, but the truth is that we all do now and then, and those who seek it can get to their goals much faster. I agree. And financial therapy is this burgeoning subfield within the field of therapy.

And there's a really good reason for that. We learn certain money behaviors and patterns well before we manage our own money. Children pick this stuff up well before they can even really express themselves. That's how young this stuff begins to show up. It seems like these patterns not only are affecting the listeners goals in life and their ability to live a life that would make them happy, but it is also affecting their relationship with their spouse. That means that there may be some relationship conflict going on that really would benefit from being talked about with a neutral third party.

Yeah, I so wish that we could talk with this listener because I would love to hear more about the why behind their debt from their message. It does seem clear they're not going to this debt to cover necessities. They are knowingly living outside of their means and it seems like they're making decisions that they know are not in their best interest, like going on expensive vacations. I'm very curious about their thought process when they have gone back into debt. What is it that they expect this spending to achieve for them in the long run, even if they know it's actually not good for them to be doing this? I would have to speculate here, but it's possible that they might be rewarding themselves after

paying off a mountain of debt. Because it sounds like that this is something that they do, they feel free to spend once they have paid off their debt and then the cycle continues. It's important to get to the root of why they choose to overspend when they get out of debt. Sometimes it's because you felt deprived for so long if you had a really strict get out of debt plan. And once you're out of debt, there's less of a risk to splurging or overspending, at least in the immediate form. A financial therapist can potentially help you get to the bottom of it. And it sounds like that's what the listener wants to break this cycle.

It's important to know financial therapy does cost money, so that may present an obstacle when you're already struggling financially. But it could still be a worthy investment if it offers a long-term solution that can keep you out of debt and save you money over time. Consider the benefits that it might mean for your lifestyle, for your goals, or even relationships

that it might be hurting. Yeah, I'm goals, or even relationships that it might be hurting. Yeah, you know, I'm somebody who's gone to non-financial therapy over the years on and off, and it is a cost, but I consider it an investment in yourself. Sometimes in life, you need to assemble what I call the paid village of care. We always say it takes a village. Sometimes you talk about that in terms of having kids,

but adults need their village too. Yeah, it takes a village to heal your inner child. Exactly, and maybe your friends and family are not able or equipped to help you work through this particular issue that you have with debt. That's where you can pay somebody who does have the tools available to help you explore what's going on with you

and help you find ways to going on with you and help you find ways to get out of this cycle. One thing that I'm thinking about, especially in the context of financial therapy, is this idea of money scripts, which are basically common patterns and relationships that people have with money. One is called money worship, where people view and use money to get a higher level of happiness or stability. The more money that people have, the better they think their life will be essentially. And in reality, we know that more money

isn't an exact corollary to a better life. But as I sit here sinking deeper into my financial therapist armchair, it seems like our listener could be experiencing this money script potentially. Then the next question is, why might they be following this script? And how can they find more productive channels for creating their own stability and happiness? So we talked about exploring the backdrop and what's going on for this listener and

maybe how they got to this point. but we should probably also talk about some tactical ways they can prevent themselves from going into credit card debt again, especially if there's maybe some time before they can talk to a therapist. What's something they can do even starting today to potentially better their situation? Melissa, what are your thoughts here? I think the best place to start is to review your budget. Once you're debt-free, ideally you have more wiggle room to do those things that you enjoy within your means, of course. So make sure that you have money earmarked for the essentials, but also make sure that you're leaving room for fun.

Have a fun category or even a few for movie nights, date nights, vacations, or treats that align with your budget. And if you know you're impulsive, have a built-in plan for that. I've talked to experts who suggest giving yourself 24 to 48 hours before making a purchase if it feels impulsive. Not keeping your payment information on file for online shopping can also help you think

twice about a purchase. And having a safe accountability partner that is more of a sounding board who doesn't offer an opinion can also be useful. It allows you to hear yourself out loud discussing the case for a purchase. And this way you can try to unpack whether it aligns with your goals and values. It also seems like this listener may have a dysfunctional relationship with credit cards specifically. I know at NerdWallet we're big fans of using credit cards in smart tactical ways. I'm wondering whether this listener might want to actually avoid using credit cards for at least a period of time,

if not, you know, maybe forever. What are your thoughts about that? I think for some people, it makes sense to not use credit cards. It's a great idea to stop using credit cards for some people, especially if they know that they are prone to impulse spending. Research has shown that credit cards lead to overspending. So switching to debit or cash can

help keep your goals on track. But if that's not ideal, not all merchants accept these forms of payment like cash, for instance, then you might want to keep a cash envelope with the money earmarked for those areas where you tend to overspend. For instance, if you overspend on dining out, then you have an envelope with a certain amount of money

for that category, and once it runs out, it runs out. And this is one way you can stick to your budget. Also consider what might be leading to the overspending. Do you tend to overspend when you're sad, stressed, or feel some type of way? Or is it when you're scrolling through social media and those personalized ads get you? Or perhaps something else.

Seeking help or assistance can also help you get to the root of it and also gain a new perspective on what you might be missing. Yeah, you mentioned trying to avoid saving your credit card information with online merchants. Technology has made spending money a nearly frictionless experience.

And when you write about payment technology, you hear a lot of the innovations that are going into helping consumers buy with one tap or one click or use virtual credit card numbers. All these things that add a lot of convenience to online purchases, but they also make it way too easy to just spend, spend, spend on impulse. Put some friction back into the buying experience and that can give you some time and space from the initial impulse to buy something to actually making the purchase. And that space can help you reconsider. And

if you have to go so far as to literally freeze your credit card in a block of ice, do it. Yeah. Put in the back of your freezer behind some leftovers you know you're not going to eat. Right. A lot of personal finance and budget management can be about putting the right guardrails in place for you to almost curb your worst impulses. It seems like our listener would benefit from that. Let's talk about how to live within your means generally, since our listener is asking about that. Melissa, Sarah, what suggestions do you have? I think it's important to set a financial goal. This is the main reason you want to live within your means. Perhaps you want to travel more or buy a house,

whatever the goal, let that be your motivation for staying on track. Having a realistic budget that includes those things you're going to spend on can also be useful. And don't be afraid to experiment with different types of budgets. The 50, 30, 20 budget can be a good place to start. It's balanced, suggesting that you put 50% of your monthly income towards needs, 30% towards wants, and 20% towards savings and debt repayment. You can also resolve to save a little each month

for big purchases like a friend's wedding or a vacation, and track your spending to understand whether you're staying on the right path or straying from your budget. An emergency fund can also prevent reliance on credit. Even $500 to start can help lower the risk of going into debt. Yeah, and I'm a big fan also, not just saving for the things that you want to do or need to do, but also learning to say no to stuff that doesn't actually matter to you and would cost you money.

So let's say you're invited to a wedding of somebody that's kind of an acquaintance from college, but you haven't really spoken to them in a decade, and it would involve travel. Maybe just say no to that. You don't really talk to them. Your relationship's not where it used to be. Why spend $1,500 on going to a wedding

when you're probably not even gonna speak to the bride and groom for more than five seconds, right? This way you can allocate more money to the things that do matter, to the wedding for the friend you talk to five times a week. Look through your recent credit card statements and really determine what are some purchases that didn't really bring you joy that weren't necessary. Obviously, putting gas in your car might not bring you joy, but it's something you have to do if you have to use your car. But what did you buy that you realized was a mistake? Are you paying for any subscriptions that you don't use?

What are those money vampires that are taking money away from the things that you really want? I think a question our listener could ask themselves is, why, whenever they're going to make a purchase, why am I spending money on this? Am I doing this if it's not going to help me meet my financial goals? Or why am I so set on this being my financial priority

right now? That, I think, will help them have some self-reflection, which it seems like they're already beginning to take on, and really gets the root of their spending habits and make sure their money is focused toward where they really want it to go long term for the health of their finances and their relationship. One other thing worth mentioning is if you've already overspent on your credit cards and

you're in debt, there are ways to lower your interest payments so you don't have to pay such a high price for your overspending. For example, there are zero balance transfer fee credit cards with introductory APRs that could significantly lower your monthly interest payments. NURBALLET has a write-up of the best no balance transfer fee credit cards to help you compare your options and we'll link to that in today's show notes. I will say, however, you don't want to fall into the trap of transferring a balance from

card to card to card to keep kicking that debt can down the road. Use this as a tool to get out of debt interest free. And then once you're out of debt, start working on staying out of debt. Melissa, do you have any final thoughts for our listener or anyone else who might be struggling with spending habits they know are not good for them? I just wanna urge them to consider seeking help

if they feel like they need that assistance to get to the root of different financial habits. There's no shame in asking for that help, especially if it's going to help you up level to meet your goals in the long term. Melissa, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. That's all we have for this episode. Remember, listener, that we are here to answer your money questions. So turn to the nerds and call or text us your questions at 901-730-6373. That's 901-730-NERD. You can also email us at podcast at nerdwallet.com.

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