NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast - Umbrella Insurance, Coverage Gaps, and What a $483 Bar Tab Taught Us About Money

Episode Date: June 15, 2026

Learn when umbrella insurance is worth buying and what a $483 bar tab can teach you about being an informed consumer. When does umbrella insurance actually make sense for your finances? What happens if a lawsuit leaves you on the hook for more than your home or auto policy could cover? Hosts Sean Pyles, CFP®, and Elizabeth Ayoola are joined by insurance nerd Caitlin Constantine to tackle a listener’s question about umbrella coverage: what it actually is, how it layers on top of your existing home, auto, and renters policies, what umbrella insurance won't cover, and how to figure out whether your current assets and policy limits leave you exposed.  Then, Elizabeth shares money lessons she took away after she and a friend accidentally racked up a $483 bar tab, including handling financial mistakes with grace and the secret power of forgiving yourself. Subscribe to our podcast’s free email newsletter for bonus content and more from our hosts at https://smartmoney-nerdwallet.beehiiv.com/  Want us to review your budget? Fill out this form — completely anonymously if you want — and we might feature your budget in a future segment! https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScK53yAufsc4v5UpghhVfxtk2MoyooHzlSIRBnRxUPl3hKBig/viewform?usp=header To send the Nerds your money questions, call or text the Nerd hotline at 901-730-6373 or email [e-mail]. Like what you hear? Please leave us a review and tell a friend. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, Elizabeth, we have to talk about the newsletter. What newsletter are you talking about, Sean? You mean the new, free, smart money email newsletter? Yes, and I have to say it is so good. It really is. It has clips, episode roundups, and behind the scenes takes from me, you, and our producer, the stuff that makes you feel like you're really part of the show. And listeners, for the record, you actually are part of the show.

I'm going to be sharing personal stuff. You know, I love sharing my business, and I'm going to be sharing parenting tips from an eight-year-old. a single mom perspective. And I am loading up the newsletter with my favorite gardening tips and lots of cute photos from my garden, including my pets, just napping among my flower beds. It's kind of adorable. And the best part is that this newsletter is totally free. So head to nerdwollet.com slash podcast to sign up. For the record, that's nerdwollet.com slash podcast. Come hang out with us. Imagine you're at fault in a serious car accident. The other driver's medical bills hit $800,000 but your auto insurance only covers $300,000.

Who pays the rest? Potentially, you. Today, we'll talk about a type of insurance that can help you in just this situation. Welcome to NerdWallet's Smart Money Podcast, where you send us your money questions, and we answer them with the help of our genius nerds. I'm Sean Piles. And I'm Elizabeth Ayala. I know we're talking about insurance here, but I just feel like I want to go on a quick rant

and say that I feel like Umbrella should have insurance too, because I lost my umbrella. last September and I refused to buy another one. And it's raining right now, by the way, where I am. So just saying. Well, today, you know, we're talking about umbrella insurance specifically. So we might be able to protect that umbrella of yours, Elizabeth. Thank you because I don't want to buy another one.

Our question today comes from a voicemail. Here it is. Hi, Elizabeth. My name is Anjali. And I was calling because I had a question about umbrella insurance. When it makes sense to have it, when it doesn't. And I wanted to see if you all had any advice on considering it. Okay, thanks so much. Bye-bye.

To help us answer Anjali's question, we're joined by insurance nerd and a friend of the pod. Caitlin Constantine. Hey, Caitlin. Hey, guys. How's it going? Thanks for having me back on the pod. Good to have you back. And for once, we're not talking about a super grim topic, which is great. It's not climate change this time.

Yay! Well, let's start by laying out some definitions because a lot of folks might not know what umbrella insurance is. And Elizabeth, I'm sorry to tell you, it might not cover your umbrellas. It's not umbrella-specific insurance. Well, then I got to start a go-fut-mey to get me a new umbrella then. Y'all are cracking me up with these umbrella jokes, but I have to tell you that the entire time I was preparing for this segment, I kept having Rihanna's umbrella in my head. Oh, yes.

Good song. Good song, right? So definitely more positive than talking about climate change. So, but to talk about what umbrella insurance actually is. So basically, it just provides extra liability coverage above what you already have for your home or auto and renters insurance policies. Just so you understand, liability coverage is the part of your insurance policy that pays for the damage and the injuries that you cost to other people. It doesn't pay for anything that happens to you. It also pays for your legal fees, any sort of judgments or settlements that might be held against you.

So if you find yourself in a situation where you're found liable for more money than what your insurance liable. liability limits can cover, umbrella insurance can step in and cover the excess. Okay. And the key here is that it's an umbrella basically over your home and your auto policies. It just sits right on top there. Yes, they call it an umbrella because it goes over the top of your policies. In addition to that, it can often broaden your coverage as well. So it doesn't just give you higher liability limits. It gives you broader coverage. And sometimes people confuse umbrella coverage with excess liability coverage, which are two different things, because basically,

with excess liability, you can just increase the liability coverage on a standard plan. Umbrella coverage is a separate thing, correct? Yes, that's exactly it. Umbrella coverage will give you higher liability limits, but a thing that's really notable about it is that it's going to give you broader coverage. And a good example of this is if you are sued for like liability or defamation of some sort, your home insurance policy is probably not going to cover your legal fees, likely won't. But an umbrella insurance policy will cover those fees.

Yeah, I think that's a key point about umbrella insurance, that it can protect you from litigation, which a lot of people might not be aware of. And it's pretty cool. And maybe some people don't think that they're ever going to be in a situation where there's litigation, but we're in a life where anything can happen, right? Yeah. I mean, we are in an extremely litigious country. And I talked to with my insurance broker about this. And he said that you don't have to be a millionaire to be sued like a millionaire. So umbrella insurance can help you in that case. People who have umbrella liability coverage, they need to be mindful of coverage minimums on their other policies, right? So, Caitlin, this can get a little technical. Can you explain how this works?

So umbrella insurance policies have what are called underlying minimums. And that basically means that you're expected to carry a certain amount of liability insurance with your home, your auto, or your renters policies before you can even buy the policy to begin with. And then you have to exhaust those coverage limits before your umbrella insurance will kick in. So to use that opening example in your intro, if you have $300,000 in auto liability coverage, and then you have a million-dollar umbrella policy, and you're sued for $800,000 after causing a car crash. Your auto insurance is going to cover that first 300,000 of your liability limit,

and then the umbrella insurance policy will kick in to cover the remaining half a million dollars of this judgment against you. But it's really, really important to be aware that if you lower your underlying limits below those minimums, it could result in a coverage gap. And let me explain how that works. So say you've got your auto liability policy that has the 300 minimums, but you're thinking you need to save some money, so you lower those to $200,000. And then you have caused your $800,000 accident. Your auto policy is going to cover the first $200,000.

And then the umbrella insurance will kick in for the last half a million, but you're still going to be on the hook for that $100,000 that you did not cover because you were trying to save money on your premium. However, if you had maintained that minimum amount, the whole amount would be covered. Does that make sense? Yeah, so there's no cutting corners is what you're saying, Caitlin. No. No.

No, if you think about that umbrella going over your home and your car, the minimums are what's keeping it propped up properly. Otherwise, it's going to fall over and won't cover you at all or it'll partially cover you. And I'll also add a good insurance broker won't let you not hit your underlying minimums because it's in their best interest to have you covered properly. Absolutely. I think that if you are going to start engaging, if you're going to start working with like an umbrella policy, talk to your insurer, talk to your agents. They're going to be able to help you figure out the best way to piece things together. We do this frequently with our insurer, and they help us figure out the best way to cover for our needs. So a good broker, a good agent should be able to help you and should be able to prevent you from doing this.

But there are sometimes where people make their own choices for themselves and they manage things. And sometimes these are things that they're just not aware of as a potential risk. And it kind of defeats the whole point if you don't have the underlying minimums, right? Yeah, the idea is that the insurer wants you to have some, like, degree of responsibility, like that you are doing your part to make sure that you are being a responsible. person, financially responsible. They don't want to have you kind of coming in and relying on them to do things that you should have been doing for yourself, basically. Yeah.

Part of being responsible, part of doing your due diligence is also knowing what's not covered with umbrella insurance. So Caitlin, tell us what it doesn't cover. First of all, just we have to remember that this is about liability insurance. That is about injuries and damage that you cause to other people, not stuff that happens to you. So if you're injured, it's not going to cover your injuries. That's what your health insurance is for.

If your car or your home is damaged, that's not going to get covered either because that's what your home or your auto insurance is for. And it's also not going to cover any liability associated with your business. If you have a business, you have to get separate liability insurance for that. And if you breach a contract, it's not going to apply. And then finally, you always have to say this because it's amazing how many people don't seem to think this is real. It doesn't apply if you commit a crime or if you purposefully harm somebody. These are big no-knows in the world of insurance. Yeah.

This is not a get out of jail free card. I don't want to believe that people think umbrella insurance is going to cover that. Insurance fraud happens. Yes, that's it. That's called insurance fraud. Okay, well, let's talk about who can actually get umbrella insurance and who maybe isn't eligible. Yeah, so you can get umbrella insurance if you have auto, home, or renter's insurance that meets those underlying minimums that we talked about earlier. Those underlying minimums are going to vary from insurer to insurer, so I can't come and say, like, you have to have this certain amount.

You will want to check with the insurer. And also I want to make a note that if you have a bow or RV or motorcycle policy, the umbrella policy can be written to cover those as well. And an important distinction here that I learned recently is that umbrella insurance is for home owners policies for homes, not for landlord policies. Because when I became a landlord and started renting out my house, I had to drop my umbrella policy, at least through my insurer. Now, I talked to my broker and he said that some insurance companies might offer this for landlord policies, but you have to shop around. and make sure that's actually the case. For me, at this point, I don't have my coverage, and it makes me a little mad, I'll say.

You've got to know your needs. I have been studying for my licensing exam for insurance, and it can get very specific. These are legal contracts. They're written to be very clear and very specific so that if you have to go to court, they can point to things. And so that means that people who are in situations like you where you're a landlord, you're going to have very specific policies

that are not necessarily going to be applicable to those of us who are just homeowners or renters or, you know, private citizens. What I did because I couldn't get an umbrella policy for my landlord policy for my house is I just increased my liability coverage on that policy as much as I could because that's the whole point. Good for you for being a responsible landlord and insurance client. I try. I really, I'm knocking on wood here. I would love to not be sued. That's my bottom line. Well, that's the whole point of this is to not get sued. Right, right. Or if you do get sued, yeah, toss it over to your insurance company. And let's not talk about the hoops that you have to jump through to even get the coverage.

But anyways, Caitlin, to be clear, for people like Sean and Sean's situation who aren't eligible for umbrella insurance, what are the options do they have? Like, can I just say, hey, I'm just going to increase my liability coverage to maybe meet the gap? Yeah, you can do exactly what Sean did. Talk to your broker. Talk to your insurance agent and say, I want to get more liability coverage and they'll work with you to find the right amount. I was pouring through some Reddit threads about umbrella insurance. And there were a lot of folks out there who seem to think that umbrella insurance is just for rich people. and that regular people may not need it.

But I kind of disagree with that because, again, like we've said, anyone can be sued. So what are your thoughts on this, Caitlin? Is it just for rich people? And also when might make sense to not have umbrella insurance? Well, so first of all, I don't think everyone has to have it. But I agree with you that like regular non-rich people, plenty of us could benefit from it. So if you have like a lot of assets and you're in a position to be sued, you should really consider umbrella insurance. And when I say in a position to be sued, I want you to think broadly.

about it, right? Like, are you on the board of a nonprofit? Do you own a trampoline? Do you own a swimming pool? Do you post reviews of products and businesses on the internet? People have been sued for this before. Are you a public figure? Is there a teenage driver in your house? Like, these are all things that can lead to lawsuits that people may not necessarily think about. And these lawsuits can have very high judgments. And so if you have a risk factor that you think opens you up to potentially having a lawsuit filed against you, give a serious consideration to buying an umbrella insurance policy. So here's an easy way to decide if you need one. First, add up the value of your property, your savings, and your investment accounts. And then look at how much liability insurance you

have on your existing policies. If you have more assets than liability coverage, you should probably get yourself an umbrella insurance policy. Now, here's the good news. You can usually get a million dollars worth of coverage for between $200 and $300 a year. There tends to be a misconception that umbrella insurance is more expensive than it is. And it's actually, I would say relatively affordable for what you're getting out of it. You could spend maybe $20 something dollars a month and be covered up to a million dollars for a year. And when it comes to insurance generally, the less likely the bad thing is to happen. Like, it's actually not super likely that you'll be sued for a million dollars. The cheaper your insurance is going to be

on the whole. So that's part of why umbrella insurance tends to be pretty affordable because it's not every day that you're sued for a million bucks. But if it happens, you'll really want to have that coverage. That's a really great point, that the less common something a risk is, the less it's going to actually cost. And another thing about why umbrella insurance is relatively affordable for an insurance policy is that you should have other insurance covering it. And so they're counting on that insurance being able to cover the majority of what you need. This is something that will show up if you end up with like a lawsuit with like a hefty verdict or something. So yes, to your point exactly, it's not something that happens every day. And so

they price the risk a little bit lower just because of the way. way that it's structured. Don't assume that it's out of your price range. If you think that this is something that you could benefit from, look into it. You might be surprised to find how affordable it is. As much as insurance is not the most exciting topic to talk about, I always love the conversations around the risk assessment. What is the likelihood XYZ is going to happen? And is it worth me paying $20, $40 a month? But Caitlin, when you really put it, like, do you have the amount to cover the gap between what your insurance covers and what the umbrella or lawsuit could potentially cover.

I think that is such a strong case for potentially just getting the insurance because how many people have, I don't know, 500K in investments or 800K in investments or a million dollars, not many. When you kind of do the cost benefit analysis, when you look at what you're spending in a premium versus what you could potentially get and what you stand to lose should the worst happen, to me, I think the insurance, when it works properly, can be, is a very key an important part of any financial setup. You need to protect your assets from bad things happening, and this is one way to do that. Thank you for saying when it works properly. Now, let's talk about

shopping around for umbrella insurance for the new disciples that we have converted. What are the best practices here, Caitlin? So for those of you who are new to the Church of umbrella insurance, keep these questions in mind when you are shopping around. So first, you want to find out exactly what is covered in that umbrella insurance policy. So, for instance, like, say you and your family really like boating, right? You might not want an umbrella insurance policy that has exclusions around watercraft. Say you travel a lot. You're probably not going to want an umbrella policy that has exclusions around when you're

abroad, which some do. So you've got to make sure that the policy actually works for your lifestyle, your needs, makes sense for you. You would hate to find yourself in a situation where, you know, you could have avoided this a little bit earlier just by doing your due diligence. Also, find out the underlying minimums for the umbrella insurance policy so that you can make sure that you do have enough. And then you'll need to consider how much coverage you'll need to buy. So most of us would probably be fine with $1 to $2 million in umbrella coverage, but many insurers will offer up to $5 or $10 million.

And then once you have a sense of what you need, start collecting quotes. Start with the people who are providing the insurer that provides your home, your renters, or your auto policy. But make a point to get quotes from at least two other insurers. This is especially important if you have to raise your minimum liability limits because you might end up finding cheaper rates elsewhere. And then be aware that when you're shopping, a lot of insurers are going to require you to have all of your policies with them if they're going to sell an umbrella policy to you. This is an opportunity to ask about potential bundling discounts. If you have policies with multiple insurers and you're looking at moving them all to a single insurer, you may be able to get a decent discount that could save you quite a bit of money on your premium. Okay. Well, Caitlin, thank you so much for giving us the run through about this. And Elizabeth, it seems like this may not cover your umbrella unless it goes haywire and attacks someone. Keep that in mind as you're considering umbrella insurance. Good twist. Zero point zero point nil chance of happening, eh? But hey, might still be an insurance. There'll be a very affordable policy for you. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks so much for having me on. I love talking about insurance. I genuinely love talking about it. So I really appreciate y'all having me on. And that's what makes you a nerd.

Proud of it. We'll be back in a moment with more smart money. Stay with us. Okay, we're back from the break, and I've got my cat Argus with me now. Hey, Argus. Elizabeth, before we started recording today, you told me that you have a story for me. Something juicy, something that you're maybe not so proud of. I want to hear.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm just going to get off my chest, and hopefully I can find them solidarity. If not from you, Sean. This is the judgment-free zone. Mm-hmm. If not from you, from the listeners and the viewers. Okay.

So on Friday, my friend message me and she's like, you want to hang out? And I was like, you know what? I haven't seen her in a while. She's actually my neighbor. It lives two streets down. And she has a son. Our kids go to the same school play together. So I was like, sure.

I was feeling a little funky too. And I don't know about you, but sometimes when I'm feeling funky, my MO is to retreat and isolate myself, but I know that it can be better to spend a bit of time with friends and people who love you. You know, I want to pick me up her. So anyway, she's like, let's go to this Mexican restaurant that's not. on the street for months. It's about literally three minutes away. Terrible food, terrible drinks. I've been there once and never again. But they have a play area for the kids. So I was like,

it's okay. You know, I'll just order water or something right. Get on with it. But hey, it was Friday. So anyway, we're catching up. I'm already feeling better. Girl time is amazing. And then the bartender comes along. And I am not enthused about the bartender because I already know the drinks are going to be bad. And I'm like, I don't want to waste my money on bad drinks. She orders a drink. Matter of fact, he had already bought her two drinks trying to fix the original drink because both of the two were bad. Oh, no. I mean, what were you getting? Margaritas? Well, she was asking for a margarita and he wasn't, oh my God, this story gets juicier. Keep me on track because my ADHD is going to have me going all over the place.

Okay. So anyway, she's not really satisfied the drink, but she's tired of saying it back. So she's like, it's okay. And then, you know, she drinks the drink. And I'm like, well, what should I get here? I was going to get like a water, but then I was like, well, can you really mess up a blood? Mary that bad. So I was like, okay, you know what? I'll have a bloody Mary. It was mid, as I expected. It was just average. But that was okay. So sipped my bloody Mary. So my friend was like, you know,

I'm not going to bother ordering another drink because it's a waste of money. Let's just get a couple shots. I'm like, sounds good to me. Less calories. Less calories. Let's just get some shots. So brings over the menu. What kind of tequila would you guys like? If you didn't know, I'm a tequila girlie. So I was like, well, looking at the menu and I'm like, huh, there's this tequila called Azul. And it looks familiar. It looks like, or rather the name looks like a tequila I bought in the past. So I was like, okay, this is decent, not too expensive. We can do this. The bartender is now suddenly befriending us and hovering over us, talking to us for five minutes. We find out that he's been a felon twice. And this is his first week on the job. Yes. And he's like, I'm keeping this job

to keep myself out of trouble. And we're thinking he's a little unprofessional with how much he's staying with us and talking to us. We would like some breathing space, but we're like, you know, cheering him on because he's on a better path. He's got a job, whatever. So now we finish our shots and he's like,

should I bring another round? And we're like, eh, okay, it's Friday. Sure. Fast forward, we had four shots. And he keeps coming back and asks if we want more shots. And at the fourth one, we're like, okay, no thank you. And these were some smooth shots. actually best tequila I ever had.

I was like, wow, this is, you know. So then another bartender comes up to us and he's like, you ladies have great taste. This is great. So we're like, well, I'm like, well, thanks, you know. You're trying to get all of your money from you. They're like, okay, these ladies just got paid and they're going to spend a bunch of money at our bar because our food's not great, but hey, you can't mess up a bottled thing of alcohol, right?

Listen, Sean. Okay, okay. Lay it on me. Four shots later. very much, not even tipsy nothing, very sober, the bill comes. Four shots in, you're sober? Yeah, what? The bill comes.

And we're like, okay, I'm like, definitely not spending more than maybe 30 bucks because this is like not, you know, I didn't order any food. This is not a high budget place or expensive place. I want you to guess, Sean, how much that bill was. So you each got four shots and drinks before. So that's, I'm going to say right there, that's $100. $483, Sean. No.

What? $183. I could have cried. That can't be right. I was in disbelief. I looked to that receipt. Do you want to know how much each shot was? $25?

$45 a shot. $45? No wonder they loved you so much. They were getting paid back then. Wait, so that's not even before the tip. That's just the straight check. Can we have a moment of? silence for my budget.

Oh, also, we, our producer test is hollering in the background here. Because this is outrageous. Wow. Elizabeth, I'm so sorry. Also, sometimes we just have expensive lessons learned in life that we, we don't really expect to happen. We don't.

Oh, my God. Wait, so you didn't even see the price of, of the shots. It wasn't next to, listen, you know I can be, I won't even buy myself an umbrella. So you know I'm not buying a $45 shot. If I knew it was, I would have never. So now it made sense because now let me give you a bit of back story about this Azul tequila. For anybody who's listening to watch and wants to go Google. By the way, a whole bottle of that is like $100 in the liquor store.

At the club, for people who like to go to the club, I call it the club. It can be a lot, a lot more expensive. So it's a popular drink for lifestyle people. So that's where my recollection was going to. I've never tried this tequila before. I've heard about it so much, though, because it's always all over. social media and I never wanted to try it because it was so dang on expensive and now I tried it on accident. What I'm not over is that you were at this kind of not great Mexican spot that wasn't

even serving. Why did they even sell that? It was basically serving as a daycare for you and they're serving this crazy expensive alcohol just to get a bunch of money from you. Let me tell you my friend's theory. She thinks we got scammed because we left there sober by the way, four shots and one bloody Mary and we were sober. You should have been on the floor. At least for me, if I have four shots, I'm either going real hard that night or I'm going straight to bed. Same. So we were, she, she figures that they put a fake tequila or mixed tequila or shorted us the tequila because it was smooth, but nothing was happening. And just ripped you off. Wow. Well, I guess you're never going back to that place, right? Never. And then the bartender's like, see you next time,

see you next time. No, you're not. No, you're not going to see me next time. I was hurt. So, Elizabeth, what lesson are you taking from this very expensive, very sobering evening of drinking? Multi-layered, many lessons here, but I'll just leave with three. Three. The first one is if something you're ordering doesn't have a price next to it, ask before you order. Even if it looks familiar, even if you think it's something you've ordered before, ask before you order. Be an informed consumer. That's right.

Lesson number two, I felt terrible, to be honest. like the time I got scammed, I felt scammed, even though it was all my fault. I felt terrible. You feel like the fool, right? Yeah, I felt, I felt really silly. But I had to, again, remember, like you said, we want to be perfect with our money. We want to budget. We want to check the prices of everything. But sometimes you make a financial mistake, right? And it may or may not be your fault, but thankfully at least I could pay the bill. And at least I've learned from that. And at least I'm not going to be homeless after paying $483 on shot. Oh, my goodness.

I would be wrecked. That would be the rest of my weekend. I'd just be sitting in my house trying to recoup. Do you think I bought anything this past? I bought nothing this past weekend, nothing that I didn't have to buy. And the third thing is just forgive yourself when you make a financial mistake. Don't beat your stuff up about it. Remember it happens to the best of us.

And money is a tool. It's there to be spent. It may not have been spent on something I wanted to spend it on. But, hey, money is a tool. So would this qualify as an emergency? to dip into your emergency fund, or is this coming out of your fun money fund? Where are you paying for this from?

I thought about it. And since we are honest, open and transparent on this podcast, my fun money fund is done. And that's why I was so pissed off. So, you know. Proud of you for that. Yeah. Because that's you paying your dues for a lesson learned.

Like, it sucks that you maybe got scammed because you feel like you're the fool here. But in fact, if they took advantage of you, that's on them not being good people. This guy literally said he was just out of jail. Like, we're all about people making amends and correcting their mistakes and living their best life, but also give the girl a shots.

I felt like I got hustled, to be honest with you. But hey, I feel like, I don't know. If I was a bartender, no, would I do that? Would I be like, oh, this is $45 a shot? I don't know, you know, if that's a norm. Would you if you were a bartender or would you just assume the person knew? I don't know. It depends on the context.

I would probably assume the people know what they're ordering. Exactly. So it's on me. It's on me. It's on me. Or you could, yeah, next time just ask, like, hey, how much is the shot? because I assume $10 a shot. Maybe honestly more with inflation,

but I'm not ordering shots a lot. Never in my life have I even seen a $45 shot, but lesson learned. Until now. The more you know. Next time you have a $45 shot, I better be somewhere nice. And I better go home, you know,

really, really happy. Yeah. Well, thank you for being so honest, open, and vulnerable on this podcast. We're all about learning from our mistakes. And, hey, at least you had some fun in the meantime, right? That was a beautiful thing about it. I actually did have a wonderful time with my friend.

We had some sister time. we bonded. So in all honesty, as much as I would have love to not pay that much, the time I spent with my friend really was invaluable. And I left feeling better and full. And there's something to be said about trauma bonding to. Because you guys both went through a harrowing experience and now you're closer together for it. Exactly. And we left going, we're not going to laugh today, but we're going to laugh about this sometime in the future. And look, now we're laughing about it. We're laughing about it. Life has gone on. I love that. I mean, I don't love it for you. I love that you learned this lesson. I had a good time. with your friend. I do wish you had that $400 back. I really do. I really do. All right, folks. Well, we're going to close out the tab on this episode. Remember the deal. We're here to answer your money questions. So send them to us on the

Nerd Hotline. You can text us or leave a voicemail at 901-730-6373-901-730. Nerd. Nerd. You can also email us at Podcast at NerdWallet.com or drop a comment on Spotify or YouTube. Join us next time where we'll explore some of the juiciest personal finance posts on Reddit.

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And a big thank you to NerdWallet's editors for their help. And with that said, until next time, turn to the nerds. Thank you.