NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 105. Instant Reaction: 2022 NFL Trade Deadline

Episode Date: November 1, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers run through the craziest NFL trade deadline they can remember by breaking down what these teams can expect from their new players, the compensation to get them and even talk about the deal that didn't get done.

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, we are giving you our instant reaction to what just happened as the NFL trade deadline finalized. I know this episode normally comes out on a Wednesday, but we're bringing it to you on a Tuesday because we wanted to give you our immediate thoughts as the 2022 NFL trade deadline ended.

We're going to tell you what our thoughts are about the players moving, the value that they moved for, what happens to both teams involved, and then some players that we thought might have been on the move that ended up not going places. The trades that we thought could happen that never did. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me as always is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast.

I'm Trevor Sycamore. That is Connor Rogers joining you guys just hours, mere minutes after the final bell of the NFL trade deadline for 2022. Connor and I, like everybody else, sat there in awe on our phones, refreshing the timeline, just seeing trade after trade. It felt like, and Connor, it seemed like when my jaw couldn't drop any further, we had another trade, another domino, another effect. And man, this is one of the most exciting trade deadlines that honestly I can remember in a very, very long time.

It really is. It felt like teams are finally getting a little bit more creative at the deadline. I think they're, I mean, it's kind of funny to me, but it feels like that teams now, rather than getting to the deadline and if they can make a move, they're like, okay, maybe we'll do this, that they prepare for the deadline. A lot of the leaked reports were that a lot of these conversations had been going on for one to two weeks. And I'm sure before those conversations started, teams looked at what do we need or what are we getting rid of? What do we want and what is our financial situation? So a lot of action today. And it was awesome, man. It's great for the sport when there's a bigger deadline. You and I have

talked about before the baseball trade deadline is crazy. The hockey deadline is often crazy. Obviously, the NBA seems to be a league driven by what happens off the court during the off season, or it could even happen at the deadline. The NFL for as exciting as that is with free agency in the draft always lacked that during the trade deadline. And this year really bucks that trend. No, I agree with you completely. And we're going to talk about all the major moves that we saw on trade deadline day. We'll probably reference a couple of the trades that have already happened in the nfl but we'll talk about everything we'll talk about tj hockinson bradley chubb roquan smith chase claypool naheem hines we'll talk about all of them we'll talk about what it means for those teams that made the deal on both sides we'll also at the end of the

podcast give our takes on some players that were in the trade deadline conversation that didn't get moved teams that are still there and maybe a couple of teams that we thought were going to be a little bit louder at the deadline, but were quiet in the end. So there's a lot to unpack here. Whoa, no way. Sorry, had to get it in. We're definitely going to get to that and plenty more. But, buddy, let's start with, let's start at the top, if you will.

The Roquan Smith trade. This is the one that I think really kicked everything off uh we didn't have a chance to touch on it for Monday's podcast as we were recapping a lot of the games that we saw this past weekend but with the Roquan Smith trade and that's of course going to usher into our thoughts about the Chase Claypool trade but ultimately the Bears get out of Roquan smith's situation which if you guys remember roquan wanted a new contract he wanted to be one of the highest paid linebackers in the nfl uh he was sitting was he was he holding out or was he holding in i can't remember which players everybody holds it now because it's too expensive to hold out to hold out so he was technically

holding in but he wasn't participating uh during the preseason and training camp. And then he obviously comes back for the regular season. He's been playing a Rokwan Smith, been one of the better linebackers in the NFL over the last couple of years, especially as a reliable tackler, a guy who's downhill guys are going to go get ball carriers, but it didn't seem like Chicago wanted to make the deal for him to be there long-term.

Maybe it didn't set up with their winning window the way that they believed it would in a couple of years. So ultimately they trade him to the Baltimore Raven term maybe didn't set up with their winning window the way that they believed it would in a couple of years so ultimately they trade him to the baltimore ravens for aj klein another linebacker that they replace him with but then a second round pick this year and a fifth round pick this year connor what'd you think of this deal with roquan getting dealt here and we'll get into how this ties into the chase clay pool deal but when you were analyzing just the roquan sm Smith part of it, what were your initial thoughts?

I really liked this deal for the, I actually liked this deal for both sides, to be honest with you. And I'm not going to say that a ton today. This was a deal to me that Chicago did fine in the draft pick compensation. They got a two and a five, which I think is right around what you would expect. I always like to say two plus when people ask me for trade compensation expectations, which essentially think is right around what you would expect. I always like to say two plus when

people ask me for trade compensation expectations, which essentially this is what that means two and a five. Um, and then when you look at the Baltimore side of it, cause right. Roquan Smith didn't really align with the new regimes plan. They weren't going to pay him the contract that he desired. They feel like they need to allocate a lot of the resources that they've been building up for. And we'll get to more of that today elsewhere for the rest of the team. But as a player, and this is the Baltimore side of it, Roquan Smith is a good addition for a unit in the middle of their defense that really needed to be better at linebacker. Patrick Queen has not worked out for the Ravens at linebacker and Roquan Smith. He's an interesting player to me, Trevor. He never seems to grade out extremely well in PFFs metrics. He's been, he can go up and down in both coverage. He's consistently graded out as a

reliable tackler, but run defense is where he becomes a roller coaster. But I think in Baltimore's defense where maybe he can play a little bit more freely, he's going to a more talented defense. I think that it'll be an upgrade for him in situation wise. And the fact that it's an upgrade for them because of the play speed he has and the reliability he can bring to the middle of the defense. So I like him as a player, despite never being graded out as, you know,

an upper echelon kind of linebacker by their system. Roquan Smith is a good player and I like the insurance they have. If they don't pay him, they're not in trade him. And we're going to get to another deal where it was the opposite. They didn't have to get an extension done with this deal. If Roquan Smith walks, they'll get a compensatory pick back and that even lessens

the actual compensation they had to send back to chicago so i think both sides got exactly what they needed and wanted this year yeah no i i i agree with you i think i liked the deal better for chicago than i did for the ravens but it was to me i looked at this as a similar situation to the San Francisco 49ers when they traded for Christian McCaffrey. Does this make the Ravens better as a team? Yes, it does. It was the same thing for San Francisco. Is San Francisco objectively a better football team

because they have Christian McCaffrey? Yes. Did they kind of overpay for the situation? Yeah, I think so too because they paid a lot to get mcafree on the team and then you're not only having to pay in draft compensation to go get him then you're having to pay in cap space to keep him to keep him around now you can get flexible with cap space but that does still go that that is something that you have to navigate that you have to figure out roquan smith it was kind of reported that he was looking for something around

the deal that shack leonard got which was basically a five-year, $100 million deal. I think Shaq got just a little bit less than that. So I think Roquan is trying to hit that 20 million a year mark. Chicago didn't want to do it because it doesn't line up with when they're going to win, right? That total winning window that they have, they're trying to totally rebuild here. And if they weren't going to give Roquan smith that kind of money whether it was because they didn't believe in the timeline of it or maybe they just don't believe in the value of off-ball linebacker nearly as much which could certainly be the case they didn't want to get the deal for them to get a second round pick back connor for a player that they were not going to sign

anyways to me that's a win right that's more than a comp pick of what you would have got if you would have signed somewhere else. So that was a huge win to me. The Ravens have a little bit of flexibility, whether it's a rental for a Super Bowl run, they get a comp pick out of it, or whether it is somebody who plays a crucial part of their defense and can be a key in the middle of that group moving forward.

I think both of those are scenarios where the Ravens could win, but I definitely, wise i think i would tip my cap to the bears more because they got this much out of a player that they were not going to resign so i like this deal more for the bears than i did the ravens but i don't hate it for the ravens i totally see where they're going they're trying to make a super bowl run they're trying to get that roster as good as possible yeah i'm with you i i actually like it more for the ravens but you okay but i think it's because i'm not evaluating this trade in a vacuum so all right all right let's get let's get to the other one then i don't i don't okay chase claypool yep gets traded from the steelers to the bears and my sense was the reaction from 90 of my timeline everyone's going finally help for justin fields and i'm sitting there going

and i've used this reference before on this podcast, I believe. Just because you poop your pants and then go out and get a new pair of pants doesn't mean that you get a pat on the back. The Bears did nothing for Justin Fields in the offseason at all. And now you overpay for Chase Claypool? Desperation hours. I don't feel the need to go into big praise mode. I'm glad that Justin Fields maybe has been proving them wrong. It felt like for a long time, I didn't know if this regime even believed in Justin Fields. They didn't draft him and they

didn't do anything to do him favors going into the year, whether it was the O-line, the skill, talent, nothing. So now you're at the deadline and there was clearly a bidding war rumored to be for Chase Claypool. Right. Chase Claypool goes for a second round pick. I thought Chase Claypool showed some promises, a rookie, and I think he's an okay player. I don't think in any, when you look at the price of what wide receivers traditionally go for when available. Mark Cooper, a lot of different guys. I mean, this was a, this is an overpay to me. I think Claypool is somebody that maybe can match. I hope he can match with Justin Fields.

When those plays break down, working back to the quarterback, big body target, he's going to help Justin Fields. And I think that's good. But the way we got here that this was the move they needed to make, it just doesn't feel like a smooth plan to me where I said, well, it's cool that you traded, you got a second round pick back for Roquan, but then you traded your own second round pick for Chase Claypool that Trevor, that's going to be a really valuable selection when you look

at it so that's where i stand on on that the whole bears picture right now yeah um unfortunately you're right you can't you can't judge the roquan trade in a vacuum you have to talk about what happened after that and how they navigated those things it's interesting that Claypool was picked in the second round of the 2020 NFL draft at pick number 49. The selection that the Bears sent the Steelers is probably going to be higher than 49. It's going to be earlier in the draft. So it kind of boils down to, did the, did the bears when they evaluated chase Claypool, did they believe that he has been ad as, as advertised,

if not better. And I think a lot of people, Steelers fans would tell you he has not, he has not been worth where he was picked. He hasn't been awful. He has been, he's not a bust, but I think that a lot of people would tell you that he hasn't necessarily been worth the 49th overall pick.

The Bears, just three years into his career, closer to when you have to re-sign him to a bigger contract, looked at him and said, okay, you're going to be now worth more than being picked at 49. Now, that part of it also doesn't go in a vacuum. I wanted to set it up that way to say there's a couple of reasons you do this deal. For Chicago, one, you mentioned it, they clearly need to get more weapons for Justin Fields. They weren't able to do that this offseason.

Maybe it was because they didn't pull the trigger when they should have. Maybe they're just trying to make sure that they're patient and not be wasteful with resources and opportunities. I can understand a first time front office not wanting to just kind of blow everything because they think that they need to go get something. So I didn't hate the wait and see, but it was tough going into this year with no new weapons. You go get Claypool, honestly, Connor, because of this upcoming free agency market. That's what you do. And also, we're a draft podcast.

I know there's a lot of wide receivers we like in this class, but are there a lot of wide receivers we love? That's a very fair take. I don't know how deep this wide receiver class is going to go. So if the Bears wanted to spend a second-round pick on a wide receiver from this class, the top top end talent of the group doesn't look like it's been of recent years but we know that that the teams around the league are still going to want to draft wide receivers high so by the time we get to that second round pick

where they would have been selecting is it a wide receiver that they don't really believe was going to give them a big impact so i think if you look a little bit further down the road, I still don't love this trade and I don't love it because of the way it went about. I think Josina Anderson, hold on. I have the tweet right here. Josina Anderson tweeted, my understanding is after an offer was made on Chase Claypool and it initially wasn't good enough this morning, the bears figured that another team was involved and they had the up the ante. So I think the bears probably originally offered either a third round pick or the Ravens second round pick.

And the Steelers put on a poker face and said, no, they just straight up said, no, waited for the bears to panic, waited for the bears to look at the wide receiver group for 2023 in the NFL draft and the potential free agency group, which I have that up too. Where's the free agency? Okay. Free agent wide receivers for next off season. I'm just going to start naming off names. Nelson Aguilar, Sterling Shepard, DJ Chark, Marvin Jones, Julio Jones, Alan Lazard, Juju Smith-Schuster, Jarvis Landry, Nikhil Harry, Matt Collins, Sammy Watkins, Keelan Cole, Marquise Goodwin, Mecole Hardman, Noah Brown, James Washington.

I mean, that's about it. There's nobody that's really hitting the open market next offseason. Guys will get cut, though. Guys will get cut. They will get cut, but that's harder to predict, I think. Anyway, all that to say, brilliant job by the Steelers. Phenomenal job. A-plus.

Steelers sat there at the poker table with their sunglasses on, just staring dead into the eyes of Ryan Pohl as the Bears GM and said, do it. Because George Pickens is better. That's why they had to do this. Well, that, I mean. They were like, oh, well. We already knew that.

George Pickens is better, so we got to get Clay Pallotta here. Hey, you want a top 40 selection? Top 45? That's the tough part, man. Dude. That's the tough part. I understand. I can understand the why of what

chicago is thinking here but i stream bay lurking but i still don't think that the why justified the price i really don't so i don't hate it as much as you did for the bears but hey it's a strong word i I'm happy Justin Fields gets some. At least you're trying. At least you're trying, you know? Yeah, the road to get here could have been better, but I'm happy that they are trying to give Justin Fields a chance now, I guess. It's not the worst deal ever.

I think I was I came off harsh in a sense, acting like it was totally lopsided but good job by the Steelers the Bears did not put themselves in an advantageous situation to get here but they got a player that hopefully helps this pass offense plain plain and simple Claypool's got to pan out I mean I know that that's and then you gotta pay him which is fine if he does it's a massive duh you idiot because this is a trade for a player and you're hoping he plays well but like there's not a lot of wiggle room for this to work out for the bears claypool has to be even better than he has been to this point claypool you need to have not seen the best of chase claypool for for this trade to be worth it i think that's that's the way that i look at it which is why

it ultimately is uh it's just a risk it's a risk for the bears and i think they kind of got played a little bit i think the steelers got him a little bit here you want to talk about bradley chubb next you want to get to bradley yeah another trade that it's it's hard to analyze this one and one i said i was not going to do this a lot but i do truly understand this one from both sides what let's talk the dolphins first okay the dolphins Okay. The Dolphins. Well, hold on. Let me just say, Bradley Chubb and a 2025 fifth round pick. Good Lord. So we're going two years into the future here. And so Miami got those two things, and Miami sent to Denver Chase Edmonds,

which I don't hate. I like Chase Edmonds going to the Denver Broncos. They've needed some- They upgraded. In their running back room. And then a 2023 first round pick, which they owned from the 49ers from the trey lance deal remember miami's original pick in the first round was forfeited so as you guys do your mock drafts and you see that it's only 31 picks not 32 it's because miami had their first round pick taken

from them due to the tom brady tampering that we learned about so they trade their first round pick taken from them due to the Tom Brady tampering that we learned about. So they trade their first round pick that they did have, which was the Niners pick, and then a 2024 fourth round selection for Bradley Chubb. So ultimately the way that we're probably going to talk about this deal for the most part, it is a first round pick for Bradley Chubb. So that's what the swap was here. Connor, what were your thoughts well number one good on miami because miami wants to win now right miami and i know it's mike mcdaniel's first year but you know you have prime tyree kill you have two is showing he could play in this system and you could win games and their defense has been bad this year surprisingly and they've with a lot of health things that are kind of unforeseen. Like Byron Jones, it's been a weird no status update each week on him.

Xavier Howard's been banged up. They've dealt with a lot. I think they just lost Brandon Jones for the year. They've dealt with a lot, that defense. And the offense, I said on Sunday, what matters most, can score with anyone. And they got better at running back by getting Edmonds out and Jeff Wilson in. So the offense, the line has its problems, but they've schemed around that somehow. So this was the, this was the need for them.

They need a pass rush help. They really did. And Bradley Chubb, his career didn't go in Denver, how Denver hoped a lot of it health related. What I've seen from him this year, he looks like the guy we thought he was going to be when he was a big time prospect. He looks awesome. Some pass rushers, whether it's health or time to develop, take longer and don't really hit stride until year four. I think we're seeing that with Chubb. So I have no problem with the Dolphins trading a

premium selection of first round selection in a year where they want to win now. They got a deal done with Chubb where he's part of the score, and Miami views themselves in this maybe three-year window with Tyreek on big money, now Chubb on big money, that they really want to go for it and challenge the Bills. And weird game, but they beat the bills already. So they really think they can challenge the bills and get their season full throttle for the playoffs and maybe even try to win the AFC East.

So I I'll never criticize a team that unless it's like totally an off the rails move that is trying to win football games. And this is a trying to win football games at a huge position in need. Yes. You can't predict his health and yes, it's a big cost financially and draft capital wise, but for Miami, I think this is the role of the dice that's worth it. And I respect it.

I mean, I'm with you, dude. I, I like this move for Miami. I really do. And I do not mind it for Denver for as much as I think Bradley Chubb is a really good player.

And I'm, I'm, I'm not nearly as in on getting rid of bad players as it seems like every good players as it seems like everybody else is because they want the movement and they want the chaos Nick Benito is going to be a really good situational pass rusher in the NFL Baron Browning is going to be a fantastic pass rusher he looks awesome right they've got randy gregory as well so it's like i felt like they had a log jam on like they were already paying gregory right you've got baron browning still on a rookie contract you've got nick benito on a rookie contract you have those guys there so if anybody is expendable it's probably the guy that has a little bit of health issues but still has

value clearly for the trade that you can move on from, get something back from. So I do think that Denver did a good job of navigating their current situation where they go, okay, probably not in the cards to win a Superbowl this year, but it might not be catastrophic if we figure everything out. Obviously they're all in with Russell Wilson. So it's not like they're going full tank. At least I don't think yet. There are a lot of there.

I believe that they're a long way away from getting to that point even though things have looked pretty dark this season they're still figuring it out you're not going full fire sale but you're selling one of the guys that you believe got you the most back and they get a first round pick out of it for miami they are 16th in the nfl in total pressures they've got 136 from blitzing well you're right actually all they do all they do is blitz to get home they can't generate natural rush you know what let me uh i want to look that up don't they have a top five blitz rate in the nfl number do oh where's rushers uh number of pass rushers here we go i can sort it four and three um i'm looking this i'm looking this up live on the podcast folks live on the pod come on you got

it i believe in you okay so the dolphins wow it's better i didn't think it was gonna be better no no what is it What number is this? Am I an idiot? I might be an idiot. All right, they're 17th in the NFL in total pressures with 77. When rushing either four or three. So without the blitz there. So that's what that number is there.

They're trying to get better with four guys up front. And you know what? I think the Dolphins took a look at what the buffalo bills are doing and said we need to try to replicate that winning with four up front so i'm totally with you there you go get you got jalen phillips you've got emmanuel logba who i don't think has been producing as well as they have wanted him to and you go get a guy like bradley chubb and you say okay we're not going to let the defensive line be any sort of excuse at all whatsoever. They like Christian Wilkins as well.

So I like this move for Miami. This is an, this is a we're all in kind of a thing. You've got the offense to be able to keep up. You and I talked about that on the Monday pod and they get very aggressive to go get a high impact player and a high impact position too. You got to remember that it's sometimes rough when you trade high draft capital just to pay a player right you don't want to get in the business of doing that too often it's just you're giving up both draft capital and a lot of money to go get production when yep you when you're trying you'll

have a few swings like that right exactly but for a position like this this is a premium position pass rusher is a premium position so if you're going to do it do it with something where the roi the return on investment is very high i like this move for miami i didn't hate it for denver even though they're getting rid of a good player i think they of course got a lot back in a first round pick so i like it more for the dolphins than i do for the broncos but i do see both sides on this one so those are my thoughts i'm with i don't know i think the broncos did fine i mean there's not really a lot to say like you like you said they have two young pass rushers and a veteran in randy gregory and i guess we should we could do this one

quickly because it's not a wild move but to wrap up the broncos they also traded for jacob martin from the jets oh yeah so jac Jacob Martin's not Bradley Chubb, but like you have Randy Gregory and Browning who are your guys. You think you're guys that play a big bulk of snaps, then your rotational guys and Jacob Martin and Nick Benito, Nick Benito, that was the rookie from Oklahoma who we really liked. So, and then on the jet side of that is it was, that's another win, when the Broncos get more pass rush help. They only flip their,

they trade their fourth round pick to the jets for 2024 for the jets fifth rounder. So they flip picks in 2024, but the jets get Jacob Martin's money off the books for next year, which was sick. It was around a $6 million cap hit. Now they can keep Bryce Huff who they think is their better rotational pass rusher than Jacob Martin. So the Broncos did things that make sense. And, and the sides they worked with also got a good end of the deal as well. Those were, those were teams working together, not teams just trying to get the highest auction. Yeah. You know, people might listen to this podcast and be like, Oh, you guys are talking about liking both sides of the deal. Well, duh,

that's why it's a trade. we don't get these we there aren't these runaway deals where it's like this is the worst deal i've ever seen how could these people think of this there's always ways to view because money matters every single i think every single trade all right that's the thing here like there's a there's a salary cap so it's really hard for these theory wild in theory if there's some people say it exists it's some there really hard for these theory, wild in theory. If there's some people say it exists, it's some, there's hard for these fleeces. Yeah. Trevor, where do you want to go next? Before we go to our next one, we let's go to TJ Hawkinson next. I want to hit on,

I want to hit on the trade because you've got that one and I definitely want to hit on the Calvin Ridley trade. This one will be spicier. Okay. Objectively hilarious. Before we get to that though, got to talk to you guys about our friends over at Mojo. Just think about this for a second, guys. What if you could have invested in Tom Brady as a rookie? Like his stock, like his stock for a player as a rookie. Your investment would be worth over 4,000% today if you would have ended up doing it.

Now with Mojo, it's not what if, but now it's who's next. Mojo is the all-new sports stock market that lets you invest in your favorite athletes and cash in on your passion. Sign up right now on the Apple Store to get your first stock for free, worth up to $10,000. Over 300 players are listed on Mojo so you can invest in all sorts of different players.

Saquon Barkley, Patrick Mahomes, shoot, guys that just moved, TJ Hawkinson, Bradley Chubb, you know, players like that go along and make your money within an underrated diamond breaks out, or you can even short a rival. That's right. You could short sell a rival. If you think that somebody is going to be going down, you can make money off of them. Not playing well, a price move with every single play, every single game, every single headline. And for this week, every single trade as well, you can buy and sell instantly all year long. So the action never stops. Mojo is live in New Jersey.

So download the Mojo app in the Apple store today. Start turning playmakers into money makers. Must be 21 years or older to use Mojo and located in New Jersey to make those trades. If you've got a gambling problem, help is available at 1-800-GAMBLER. All right, we teased it. TJ Hawkinson trade.

You said you got takes on this one. So Hawkinson goes from one division or one team in the division to another. The Detroit Lions make a deal with the Minnesota Vikings. Minnesota got TJ Hawkinson, a fourth-round pick in 2023, and a conditional fourth-round pick in 2023 and a conditional fourth round pick in 2024. Detroit got back a 2023 second round pick and a 2024 fourth round pick. So it seems like a little bit of a pick swap more than anything else, Connor. Well, you've got two picks moving in the deal.

Clearly the Lions got the better of the picks, but they're also losing the only player involved, albeit a player who went number eight overall in his draft class not too long ago. So give me the takes. What do you got on this one? I just don't, I don't really get it for the Lions, man. And I know people that will want to defend it for the Lions.

They'll say, oh, well, you're going to have to pay him. So what? At some point, you have to pay some people. TJ Hawkinson, just because he wasn't your draft pick, TJ Hawkinson's been a good Detroit Lion. And you traded with a division rival. When these trades happen for significant players, isn't there supposed to be a tax where every time you look back at that, the guy's scoring touchdowns on you and helping beat you in massive division games that you go, well, they did give, they did overpay for the players. So that was the thought process. This isn't an overpay at all. You could have told me that the Cincinnati Bengals made this trade with the lions and I, and I would have been like, ah, it's not a bad deal for the Bengals. Like this isn't a crazy pay for me. I just Trevor,

the lions are starting to disappoint me. And I had a lot of hope in the lions and I still do because I think they've built a really good offensive line. I'm still believing in Dan Campbell, but how long can you just say, you know what? We're rebuilding losers, right? We're, you know why I say this to you? Lions fans is because I heard it for a decade with the New York jets where every single time it was, we're still rebuilding. We're still rebuilding. We'll constantly trade our good players because we're still rebuilding. And then you sit there and you blink and you go, we haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. The team season is over every Halloween. It gets old, man. It gets old. Collecting picks. Yeah,

this is a draft show. And we recommend collecting picks for a lot of rebuilding franchises. When are the Lions turning the corner? When are the Lions going to have a roster that you go, this is the roster. These are the pieces. These are some of the guys that we think help us win football games. And you traded one of them to a division rival for not a very high cost. I just, I was shocked when this trade came through. Shocked.

Can't believe it. I think a lot of people agree with you. And I think that's because a lot of people thought that Hawkinson would have commanded more, right? It's a guy who went top 10 in the draft. What was it? Three years ago, it was 2019. 2019, yep.

2019, when he goes top 10, he goes number eight overall. Now you could say to yourself, hey, he wasn't worth number eight overall, but that is something that is part of his history. And we've seen teams before, I think, finesse former draft position into trade value when they're trying to move on from players. And it felt like the Lions could absolutely do none of that. It just feels very strange because, again,

Hawkinson is the one who gets traded, but then there are two picks that moved. And you could say to yourself, all right, well, there's two different rounds, but still you're giving picks back to the Vikings. You didn't have to do that. Yes, the Lions are jumping up from having a fourth-round pick in 2023. Now they have a second-round pick in 2023 now they have a second round pick in 2023 and there's conditions for that that 2024 pick the condition was uh per adam schefter the 2024

conditional fourth round pick that detroit sends to minnesota will become a fifth round pick if the vikings win a playoff game so obviously they're hoping that tj hockinson allows them to get further into the playoffs. So if that's the case, you look at that and you say, let's just call it a fit. So Detroit, instead of having a 2024 fifth, now they have a 2024 third. All you did was move up two rounds

and not move up into the first round, especially for a player who I would have thought would have commanded more value than this. Now, I think the big thing to remember here, the big element in all this is it seems like Hawkinson wants to get paid. Like it seems like he wants to cash in. I think he is aiming to be one of the highest paid tight ends in the NFL for, so for as much as we might like TJ Hawkinson and like the potential of him and what he can do Darren Waller George Kittle

Travis Kelsey Dallas Goddard Mark Andrews those are all the tight ends that make more than 14 million dollars a year and in fact Darren Waller is the highest paid per year at 17 and then george kittle is next at 15 travis kelsey's got 14 3 per year that's the average that they get if hawkinson's asking for like 16 17 and he's not budging i get why detroit's like all right we're not paying you like you're travis kelsey you're not travis kelsey you're not george kittle you're not paying you like you're Travis Kelsey. You're not Travis Kelsey. You're not George Kittle. You're not Mark Andrews. So I think the big engineering factor of this trade

is what were negotiations like behind the scene. But even with that being the case, Minnesota didn't need to know those details. You know, I feel like you could have gotten more out of Minnesota I felt like this was kind of a little bit of a panic here and maybe news got out too far around NFL circles that the Lions were having difficulty with TJ Hawkins's contract and they weren't going to pay him and their back was against the wall and maybe that ended up happening but it just doesn't look like a good deal for the Lions

they move on from a player that clearly was not nearly as involved in their offense as they wanted to be. He's had less than a 20% wide receiver usage per route run over the last three years that he has been there. He was never that piece that they clearly wanted him to be when they drafted him to number eight overall. But it is a lot harder for me to see the Lions side of things here, given the price that they got back. If you want to move on from Hawkinson because he wasn't what you thought he was, okay, fine. But to trade him to Minnesota, and like you said, to not get a lot back, I like this move a lot for Minnesota,

especially because Irv Smith's going to be out with that high ankle sprain. But this one's a lot better for the Vikings than it was for the Lions, in my opinion, Connor. Yeah, I like it for Minnesota. Minnesota is 6-1. They sent a message to that locker room, hey, we lost a guy and we added a big-time guy. Trevor, we talked Sunday night.

What we like about Minnesota, what matters most, they're balanced. They have two running backs that run the ball. They have multiple wide receivers that make plays. Now, middle of the field, you have top eight tight end in the NFL. I mean, I'm not saying it's like a trade that

is going to go win them the Super Bowl or it's a trade that's going to set the Lions back eight years. But when this trade came through, I i said why did you have to make that why you had to make that trade now is he up did they not pick up they didn't pick up his fifth year option right i think they did tj honk it's in fifth year option i don't i didn't think that they did oh maybe they did yeah he's under contract for next year, I thought. Yeah, he is. It's $9 million.

Yeah, he is. Yep. You're right. So if you're Minnesota. I got him for two years. Good. You have him for a huge stretch around this year where the NFC looks like crap. And if you let him walk, you get a comp pick.

God, this is good. This is good for Minnesota. This isn't a risky move for Minnesota at all. No, no, this is fantastic. No this isn't a risky move this isn't a risky move for minnesota at all no no this is fan no it's a fantastic move for minnesota it's a fantastic move for minnesota there's nothing else to say about it we got to talk about a wide receiver movement connor wouldn't brandon cooks you won't watch him play this year wouldn't brandon cooks wouldn't jerry judy uh wouldn't elijah moore wouldn't denzel mims wasn't kjs? Wasn't Jerry Judy? Wasn't Elijah Moore? Wasn't Denzel Mims?

Wasn't KJ Hamler? Wasn't Darius Slayton? It was Calvin freaking Ridley. Who walked into trade deadline morning and said to themselves, what are the odds Calvin Ridley's traded instead of Brandon Cooks being traded? What were the odds for that one? Because you would have been paid out big time. Calvin Ridley currently serving a suspension for an entire year because of gambling.

While he wasn't playing with the Falcons last year, he put money on the game to bet on the Falcons, which, Connor, the game that he bet on was Falcons-Jags. He bet on the Falcons to beat the Jags, and now he's a member of the Jags. He bet on the Falcons to beat the Jags. And now he's a member of the Jags. Unbelievable. So this deal, incredibly creative. On the surface, Jacksonville gets Calvin Ridley from Atlanta,

which if you remember before Calvin Ridley was out, there were even talks of him maybe not being in Atlanta for very long and kind of butting heads with what was going on there. I think the Eagles called. Eagles and Jets, maybe. They were the rumor. You're talking last year, right? Yeah, before the gambling.

And I'm pretty sure that Atlanta was like, I can't talk right now. They knew. They did the right thing. And they were like, no, we can't do this. You'll learn later. Atlanta receives, as of right now now a conditional 2023 fifth round pick and then a conditional 2024 second round pick so from adam schaefter here we go all right ready

for this the conditions for the 2024 fourth rounder that is going what is this from the Jags to the Falcons it stays a fourth rounder if Calvin Ridley is simply on the roster it goes to a three if Calvin Ridley reaches certain incentives and it becomes a two if the Jags re-sign Calvin Ridley to any sort of contract extension. So that is that 2024 pick. This year, it's a fifth-round pick. I don't know what the conditions of the fifth-round pick are for 2023, but that 2024 pick could go from anywhere from a fourth-rounder

to a second-rounder, depending on what happens long-term with what Calvin Ridley does once he gets out onto the field next season. Connor, my first thought is love it for the Jags, right? I love it for them because they're actually getting a number one type of receiver who I think would be a big difference maker for them. Even if it's not coming until next year, clearly they're not doing anything this year. The record is too bad. It's still a learning year.

They get to hit the ground running with a top receiver talent next year, who if he's a wide receiver, one type, you got them for pretty cheap too. I love the creativity of this man this is fantastic it is it is i i said this on twitter approaching a trade with this much creativity of conditional picks allows for conversations to begin and progress in ways that might not happen if they were more for a traditional view. Like if the Jag straight up went to Atlanta and was like, Hey,

we know Calvin Ridley's not playing for you this year. What if we, what if we give you a fifth round pick this year and a fourth round pick next year, Falcons would tell them to F off so quick, but if they go, all right, hold on, hold on, hold on. What if we make that the baseline of the deal and then if ridley ends up becoming a great player for us if we resign him is all this we'll up what we give back to you because we feel comfortable with that because then guess what connor he was worth it that i i love this creativity i love it it takes away a lot of

the risk of the teams that are making the deals and the reward is still just as high loved this from the jags love the creativity that they approach this with and i think that they won this trade in my opinion all around because of all of those factors there man i'm with you i think it's a great move i think to be fair to atlanta they were kind of in a tough spot right atl Atlanta, I mean, who could predict this? Oh, sure. They did get some kind of return for a good player. It's tricky for Atlanta. I think it's tricky for Atlanta where you can't just sit there and go,

wow, for Atlanta, we've kind of moved on from this guy. We are a very run-heavy team. We drafted Drake London with a top 10 pick. Kyle Pitts, we drafted Kyle Pitts in the top the top five we not the regime before us so sure would i love calvin ridley to be back in the offense with those guys yeah but i don't i think that ship sailed so for jacksonville to capitalize on a situation that i mean you know what I need to do? What is Zay Jones' contract situation next year? Like, is this a move to get ahead of a move?

Probably. No, he's under contract unguaranteed next year. You're not cutting Christian Kirk. That's interesting. So that was guaranteed 2020. All right. Yeah, he is still there. Yeah.

It's guaranteed for a good amount of money and christian kirk's not going anywhere so zay jones calvin ridley christian kirk obviously travis etn a big piece there but i have no problem with this move at all i mean it's didn't really cost a lot you're not going to feel the impacts in this draft so i like it a lot for the jazz i really do i suppose i get it for the falcons if you were and you're right that's a really good point that you brought up this this is a regime that drafted kyle pitts in the top five drafted drake london in the top 10 right they've drafted their offensive playmakers they have they have made it very known who they want to build this offense around moving and they want to run the ball and they want to run the ball with

guys that also they have brought in that they have drafted so it feels like the team has been moving on from calvin ridley you move on from them in a way that uh get some conditional picks in there maybe you get a second round pickup well we just laugh as you and i are going through the nfl trade tracker it it like the headlines are obviously like wide receiver claypool trade to chicago to help justin fields and then it's and then it's like chubb headed to south beach and mega deal and then you get to this one it goes jaguars trade for suspended falcons wide receiver i mean that is the headline his name is not even in it suspended falcons wider click oh man the jags did well though they did better than that headline indicates all right um naheem hines too sure this is probably the last noteworthy one i think yeah

yeah indianapolis colds trade naheem hines to the buffalo bills for a fifth round pick this year and zach moss so a lot of similar skill sets now in the bills backfield what do they have they got james cook they got devin singletary they have naeem hines and there's one more who yeah who's the other one who's well those are the three that i think of when i think of the bills because zach moss is gone here's a fourth one who's the fourth one and that full by fullback has called a touchdown reggie gilliam uh taiwan jones our lads is telling me no maybe it is just those three yeah i haven't seen all right i thought there was a fourth one in there man it's just those three just those three guys connor to your

point to your point trevor i mean that this is who the bills are right like the bills they want these guys that can catch the ball and be super effective in space and, and run legit routes, the full running back route tree. And because they got Josh Allen, the bills are staring at everybody and going, we have Josh Allen and you don't. And you made a great point, Trevor, that when we talked about before Christian McCaffrey got traded, we did a trade, a trade show. We each came up with five trades and you kept hammering on the point that I don't want to take the ball out of Josh Allen's hands all the time. And so the bills didn't need to go trade for Saquon Barkley, Christian McCaffrey. The bills didn't even need to go give a fourth rounder for Kareem Hunt, which everybody is saying that the bit rounds stuck to their ground and said, hey, we want a fourth for Kareem. They don't get anything for him now until he signs a free agency deal and they get compensation. So they sour on Zach Moss. Everybody knew that.

It just hasn't worked for Zach Moss there at all in any kind of way. Every time the Bills are on, I see my good friends in Buffalo tweeting about how they don't want Zach Moss on the field anymore. It's all I ever see. Conditional fifth round pick, who cares? No one cares. Naheem Hines, now when Motor needs a breather, Naheem Hines could do a lot of the same things as a pass catcher.

So it's not a groundbreaking move, but I think it's a savvy move that makes Brandon being kind of this GM that he always knows how to react with the right temperature. He never puts himself in positions where he looks back and goes, man, I wish we didn't get ourselves in this spot. Now I have to do this. And this is the perfect example of that with Buffalo. Yeah, I think that Buffalo is clearly in a spot where they believe they can win a Super Bowl this year.

They're just trying to get dynamic playmakers who when the ball gets in their hands, they believe that really good things can happen. I felt like that is naeem hymes for a long time he's a super versatile player um i think he can really do a lot of different things out of the backfield and anytime you have that kind of versatility i i love the move man i really do i think that it's it's going to be advantageous for him and even though it i'll say simplifies the backfield because it's a lot of guys who have the same skill set that is the skill set that you're going for i think yards after the catch kind of players um guys who have a little bit more speed a little bit more shiftiness can do things with

with the ball in open space those are the players that they have in the backfield now but those are to me the best kind that you have with this recipe for what, for what Buffalo is building. So I also really liked the trade. I feel like this is a pretty perfect match. Didn't have to give up a lot to get them. So I like this one, man. I really do. What about some players that didn't get dealt? We can get out of here and talking about some players that we were talking about. Brandon cooks, didn't get up, get moved to Brandon cooks. Not only did he not get moved, he, he,

he was getting his thoughts out well afterwards. It sounds like something fell apart. So, and I want to properly credit who said this. I know rap sheet said there were talks, but nothing came of it. Cooks was not at practice for the Texans today. Lovey Smith declined it. Lovey said that he was excused for personal reasons. And then Lovey wouldn't get into anything.

And I get it. Okay, here we go. Ed Warder. I want to make sure I gave the proper person credit. Okay. This is, as Trevor and I said here, we'll record this right after the deadline. This came in basically right as the deadline ended. He said, two sources directly involved

tell me the Cowboys and Texans discussed a potential trade involving wide receiver Brandon Cooks until the final minutes for the NFL trade deadline expired. The draft pick compensation and the $18 million guaranteed salary for Cooks in 2023 could not be resolved in time so man i the salary situation was difficult but oh okay also albert breer had a had a more very important follow-up

here on that same trade situation he said that actually all sides were together on the compensation. The compensation was figured out. Where they couldn't get over the hump was the $18 million guarantee for 2023. So my take is Cooks knew that he was leaving and they excused him from practice because they knew he was leaving. They had the compensation done. They fell apart on the money and they ran out of time. I feel bad for Brandon Cooks. He deserves to go play for a competitor. I think this is, this would have been a great move for the Cowboys, man.

I would have loved Brandon Cooks in Dallas. Yeah. So it's a tough one. Brandon Cooks tweeted after the trade deadline was over. He said, don't take a man's kindness for granted. Covered for the lies for too long, those days are done. Cross the line with playing with my career. He ain't happy. He's a guy that knows he's, I don't like to say run out of time

for somebody that's 29. But think about all the injuries he's had and the ups and downs and he just doesn't want to sit through this anymore i didn't want to be in houston clearly he doesn't want to be in houston what wide receiver would sorry none she's the truth well why would she want to play in houston right now trevor the issue is the reason you weren't traded is because of the contract you signed in April. Well,

I mean, well, hold on now. Well, I'm not saying you shouldn't have signed it. I'm just going to say, I'm not going to blame the guy for not signing the deal. No,

no, he did the right thing, but you weren't moved because you were into $18 million that the team, it makes it. I know players don't often look at this, but like when you sign that deal and you look at it, you got to sit there and go, well, this makes me unmovable. He was unmovable.

I feel for Brandon Cooks. I wish Brandon Cooks got traded. I wish he got traded to the Cowboys. That would have been, I can't wait to watch the NFC East this year. I can't believe I'm saying those words. Eagles are awesome. Cowboys look really, really good. The New York Giants are a total pain in the ass and the commanders are quietly hanging around. But brother, like when you look at the structure of the deal,

you're stuck in Houston for a little bit. Yeah. I mean, that is, that is why he didn't get moved. Right. That's a report. It is literally according to albert breer that is literally the reason they had figured out the compensation uh let's before we get out of here let's talk about the brian burns trade that never happened it was reported again from albert breer i believe it was breer who said that the panthers did get a formal first two first round pick trade offer from the Los Angeles Rams for Brian Burns. Now, the Rams don't have a first-round pick this year. So the first first-round pick that they would have had to give up

would have been 2024. And I don't... That's funny. I don't think they offered 2025. This is not a sources thing. This is not a, like like i know something from behind the scenes this is my guess i don't think the rams were going to offer back-to-back first round picks for something that was not a quarterback even for a team that's trying to go all in to

continue to win so i honestly think that it was probably a 2024 first round pick which happens two years from now and then a 2026 first round pick that's an mba which happens for right that that's an oklahoma city thunder trade where you're just trading first round picks from 10 years down the road and at that point a lot of people i saw a lot of people on the timeline and they were like, how could you not take two first round picks for a non quarterback? Like how in the world in a vacuum, are you not doing that? You ain't making them. I wouldn't have done it. Bro, you ain't making those picks.

I wouldn't have done it. You're telling me that I don't get to benefit off of not having Brian Burns on my football team until for the very first time, 2024. And then again in 2026. We're in the year 2022. How much do you think is guaranteed four years from now? Even for the GMs and the front office and the coaches and everything, those people who think that they are – they don't think they're going anywhere.

They've got confidence. They're not making this trade. No way they're making this trade scott fitter is not going to trade brian burns for a pick that he hasn't gotten for until four years from now it's not going to happen again i don't think caroline is that far away guys i know the team looked terrible with matt rule clearly they made one switch at head coach to steve wilks and they made one switch at quarterback to pj walker, and they made one switch at quarterback to P.J. Walker, and this team does not look like an absolute dumpster fire anymore.

They look competent. Do they look good, great? No, but they do look competent, and I think that if Carolina loses enough football games and gets the number one overall pick, and they get to pick Bryce Young, Connor, they're either right there for playoff contention or they're a year away from playoff contention in two years.

Two to three years, they're making the playoffs if they get Bryce Young. With this team, with this defense, with DJ Moore still on the team, you give me another year after you get Bryce Young for talent acquisition, both in the offseason and with the draft, and I would tell you that this Panthers roster would be simply

two years away from making the playoffs. That's what I that's why you don't deal brian burns and i know i might be crazy at that i might not looking way too much at it like rose colored or panthers color glasses whatever but no that's why i wouldn't have done this deal for burns and people who are like oh you absolutely take that deal i i don't subscribe to it. I don't. No, I listen. Number one, I am with you completely, even if that's not the popular take. Brian Burns is a good player, and Brian Burns already on this year

per PFF's premium stats, five sacks, six more quarterback hits, 23 more quarterback pressures. He's getting it done on a bad, kind of bad team. They're better than than people think but not a great team um but i think something that people will find things easier to understand in the nfl sometimes when they put themselves in the positions of executives like a job, like any other job. You say no to that move because you are putting yourself at a disadvantage for the success of your career arc. It doesn't make any sense for you at that time. You don't even forget 2026, Trevor, which I also agree with you on that.

It probably was. There's like a 95% chance you're never seeing that pick, you personally. 2024, you are far from it. If you don't have Brian Burns, like you said, and you're just swimming upstream with this bare-bones roster, I mean, there's a good thing. You're not going to last until that. So while I get why some people are like,

oh, how do you not take that? They're thinking it's a Madden simulation, that they could jump to the 2024 draft and make those picks and have a good time, and that's fun. This is a real-life job for people that are trying to get second contracts, that are trying to get promotions, that are trying to win games. And at some point, those not having the draft assets and not having the player just doesn't make sense for the person sitting in that chair.

I agree. There we go. That's just the nature of it. And that's the facts of life, people. Trade deadline show was way better. Pull back the curtain. Trevor and I were figuring out this week's shows, and as you're listening to this, don't forget,

this is usually the StockWatch show. And we have a special surprise for Thursday's show. But we were deciding when to do it. And we were like, well, we should probably leave the Tuesday open. God forbid a couple trades happen and we have to react. Holy, you know what? Yeah. We didn't have enough time to do all of the trades.

We had the big ones done. Great to be a little flexible here because this is fun, man. It's fun to be fans of the NFL and just be fans of all the moves that are happening you get to react you get to uh see the craziness you get to make some takes about it and then obviously we get to see how it plays out over the next a couple of months this season and then over the next couple of years to see whether these trades were totally worth it or not but um that was a good time let us know what you thought of our takes let us know what you thought of the trade deadline moves like we said

on the monday podcast we're starting this new thing where we want to hear from you guys literally speakpipe.com backslash nflse it's a way for you to just simply record your voice whether you're at your computer or on your phone and you can literally tell us your take you don't even have to write it out in a review in a response nothing you can send us basically a voicemail and we are going to listen and react to a couple of them every single thursday after whatever the thursday show is so we'll devote you know 10 15 minutes to hopefully playing a couple of you guys's voicemails that we have there it's a great week to get a voicemail in. It's a great week to start this thing. So speakpipe.com backslash NFLSE. Tell us what you thought of the trade deadline.

Trades that happened, trades that didn't, what your favorite team did, what your favorite team didn't, your favorite moves, your least favorite moves, just your takes, whatever it is, either end of the spectrum, we would love to hear from you. Connor, I'm pretty excited to get that going,

man. We've been talking about getting the people involved in the podcast more, and I think this is a good way to do it. It's going to be awesome. We'll have a lot of laughs. We'll get a lot of great questions as well. I'm excited, man. It is going to be really, really fun to check out. So this is the perfect way to integrate more of our audience into the show and i think people will have a really good time with it do we uh do we tell people what we're doing tomorrow yeah we yeah we can tell them we have to tell them it's time it's mock draft season baby we're doing it we're doing it mid-season mock draft mid Mid-season NFL mock draft. We are already here. Connor and I were thinking about doing this on Wednesday,

but instead we're just giving you guys a jam-packed week all around. We got the trade deadline episode here that you listen to, and we've got a brand new, for the first time in what, months? Months, I think I can officially say. We've got a brand new mock draft for you that we're going to be doing live on the show. That's Thursday's episode. I'm Trevor Sikama.

That's Connor Rogers. Make sure you guys hang out with us tomorrow as we bring you a brand new 2023 NFL mock draft. This has been the NFL Stock Exchange. See you guys then. Thank you.