NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 11. Biggest Combine Snubs, Numbers To Know & More New Segments of the Show

Episode Date: February 15, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give their biggest Combine snubs that didn’t make the invite list for the 2022 NFL Scouting Combine. They also bring you a “Numbers to Know” segment, highlighting some interesting premium stats at PFF. And finally wrap it up with the very first “OR WE RIOT” segment of the podcast. 0:00 - Intro, 2:50 - Biggest Combine snubs, 25:00 - Numbers to Know, 46:45 - Or We Riot

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all gotten back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. You get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great.

I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast in this episode we're bringing a lot of segments straight to you first off we're giving you our combine snubs list we're going to give you each four or five players that man we just

can't believe are not going to be in Indianapolis this year we would have loved to see for different reasons another segment that we're doing it's a little pff centric segment numbers to know we're going to be bringing to you some premium stats some common stats some extra things that we're finding from the pff database whether it's about nfl college football or these nfl draft prospects and finally, we're giving you our very first or we riot segment. Essentially, this is, hey, this better happen or we're going to freak out about it. And that's what we're getting into. It's going to be high energy. It's going to be a lot of fun.

I am Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is my co-host, Connor Rogers. Let's get after it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I am Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers, and we are here on a Tuesday, segmented Tuesday, giving you all of our best segments that we have coming up with this show. Man, we have a lot to get to. We're going to talk about biggest combine snubs. We're going to give you some numbers to know. And we are introducing a segment that we really liked in the pre-planning that I think a lot of people have liked this. We have said it to him. A or we riot segment.

Essentially what we're doing is we say this better happen or we write. Of course, we're not condoning any kind of violence, Connor. We're not. We wouldn't do that here on this podcast, but I think it's a way. It's a fun way to say, hey, I want this to happen really, really bad. So I'm excited to get to these new segments, man. I think that they're they're going to be some mainstays as we go through this podcast. Yeah, I think it's awesome.

Obviously, we've played around with the number to know, kind of give the listeners of this pod an inside look at the database that you and I fortunately get to work with at PFF, which is truly game-changing. I know you and I have also done the draft without that database, and let's just say life is better on this side of things. So those numbers to know, I think today is the most in-depth we've gotten with them. We're going to really spend time on that.

Obviously, the Combine Snubs and the Ori Riot, I think it's going to be really fun because it's a chance to get the ones out that we like, but also a way to bring in from the outside what people might be angry about or hoping for. So we wanted to obviously throw these three segments out there, but we want to hear from you guys. If you love it, that'll tell us if we're going to do out there, but we want to hear from you guys. Like if you love it, that'll tell us if we're going to do it again, if we should keep doing it, all that kinds of stuff. And we're going to do that, I think, over the next couple of months,

certainly as draft season goes on. We're going to introduce these new segments. And if you guys love it, please let us know. And there's going to be plenty of times for you guys to get involved with all of these segments, especially the Orly Riot segment. Before we move on, we're going to talk about biggest combine snubs to start this show here. But before we do that, I've got to remind people that the NFL Stock Exchange

podcast is brought to you by PrizePix. Head over to prizepix.com, use the promo code PFF, and if you deposit at least $20, you will get a free PFF Edge subscription. So it's a great place to go for all your prop bets. Obviously, the season is over with the super bowl ending just this past weekend, but there's all sorts of prop bets that you can still bet on. You know, this is, this is your place to go for, I mean, if there's free agency bets, we know there's going to be NFL draft bets. So all that kinds of stuff, you can get over price picks.com, go check it out. Use the promo code PFF. When you sign up deposit 20 bucks

and you will get a free PFF Edge subscription to get some of these numbers to know that we're going to be talking about later in the podcast. So go ahead and do that. Biggest combine snubs, Connor. This is one of our favorite times of the year, getting to go to Indianapolis for the combine. It's not always going to be in Indianapolis after this year.

This is actually the last year that they're going to have it in Indy for now. I think it'll be back at some point, but they're going to rotate it around like they do the NFL draft. But it's great, man. We talk about these prospects so much. And, you know, you and I mentioned on the running back ranking episode that we had last week where we prefaced a lot of our rankings with, hey,

testing's going to matter a lot with these guys. And so now we looked at the full list. The NFL released the full list of players that are going to be in Indy participating at the combine. There's a handful of players that I got bummed that didn't get invites. I get it. You can't invite everybody, but there's definitely some players that I wish were going to Indy.

Who's your first guy? Who do you want to give a shout out to and say, man, would really love to see him at the combine. You think that he was a snub from the list when it came out? I mean, you say you can't invite everyone, but they invite 324 players and that is more players than draft picks so it is a you know as much as it can be disappointing the combine invite list is actually a pivotal point in our process because it can be a big indicator of a guy you are higher on than the nfl because the nfl obviously comes together and together and has a lot of pull on how these invites work out,

who they want to see. So the first one that stood out to me, Trevor, is somebody we've briefly mentioned on the show, and that's Javon Hiley from Coastal Carolina. East-West Shrine guy. To be honest with you, when the East-West rosters came out, he was in the top five players I was most excited that was going to be at that all-star

event and the fact that he's not even invited to the combine you know usually there's times where you go okay there's something I don't know or I overvalued the player or the athletic there's just something there with him I can't figure it out right you just look at the production let's start with that obviously at Coastal Carolina a team that has had a lot of success throwing the ball 2020 65 catches 998 yards so we'll give them a thousand 10 touchdowns 2021 66 catches uh 1128 receiving yards seven touchdowns he basically replicated his 2020 although the yards per uh reception were a little bit higher then you watch the tape and look at the player, right? Because receivers can definitely be really productive in college,

and it might not translate to the next level. I think he's in the top 10 of most pro-ready route runners in this draft out of the wide receivers. I would say maybe even top 8, top 7. He's a great route runner. He knows how to separate. He knows how to get open. He knows how to secure the ball and get upfield.

So that's a very important aspect of what scouts look for. And I think he's very, very good at that, where when people always ask me really early in the process, hey, who's a day three guy that we need to know that you could see making a roster and having a nice role down the line? And I say Javon highly fits that to me. Him not even getting invited to the Combine is pretty shocking, pretty disappointing. Obviously, he'll have to have a really nice pro day. I think he passes the eye test on film. He obviously got a pretty significant all-star game invite.

So now he just needs to test well at his pro day to get obviously back in the eyes of NFL scouts. But this one to me is the definition of disappointing, honestly. He was one of the standout wide receivers at the Shrine Bowl, and I would say the two guys that were definitely over him when it came to production and hype coming out of the week, Kyle Phillips and Josh Johnson, those two guys did get combine invites. So Josh Johnson from Tulsa, Kyle Phillips from UCLA,

they got a lot more of the wide receiver headlines, but like Hiley was good, man. I thought that there were a handful of reps that he played really well, especially going back to the All 22 and you know you started the shrine bowl snub train and that's going to be a theme on the guys that i'm going to bring up i've got about four or five guys here and the first guy is ali fayad you know if you've been listening to this podcast you know that i've been a big fan of his since i really got to watch him out in vegas at the shrine bowl edge rusher from Western Michigan. Man, I just

was really impressed with what he was able to do that week. Now, he's kind of a one-year wonder, right? He's got 28 and a half sacks to his name. It's a five-year career that he had with the Broncos there. But when you look at the sack totals, it was five and a half, it was four and a half, it was four, it was two and a a half and then he really blew up this final season 12 and a half but shouldn't that make you want to see him more shouldn't that make you want to get him in the combine more you know because it is it is kind of funny the big guys are always going to get invited to the combine they try to invite the 300 guys that they probably believe have the highest likelihood of getting drafted. Yes, it is. But it is funny because they're they're a handful of players that you go.

I don't need the combine for this guy. You know what I'm saying? Like like we don't really need the athletic testing. We don't need the official measurements. We don't need the official medical rechecks. We already know exactly what this player is. Now, that's not the case for everybody. But it is funny how some of these higher ranked players obviously get invited to the combine and nothing's going to change for them while they're there when in reality a player like ali fayyad 12 and a half sacks his final year really took a leap as a pass rusher played great as a standout of the tribe bowl that's the guy you want that's the guy you want to see how he tests how he does in the explosives the 40-yard dash the strength test the agility test everything man that's what

you really want from him and so i'm bummed that he's not going to be there i was talking with his agent a couple of weeks ago and so i actually already knew that he was not going to be at the combine when the when the list was released it wasn't a shock to me but it was a bummer all around because uh now we to wait for pro day, right? We got to wait for his pro day to really see what some of these numbers are going to be, because he's a very intriguing pass rusher. If you ask me who's next on your, who's next on your list.

Yeah, that one's surprising. I'm glad you put him on the list because it is definitely as surprising as highly, highly, you know, two guys that got shrine invites and, you know, it's interesting. I do. I feel like the combine invites obviously are sent out or decided upon before the all-star weeks actually happen. So no matter what you do at the all-star week should not have an indicator at all.

And if you get a combine invite, it's, it's all based on what you did in, at, on a college football field. So it's like, it's like MVP. It's like game MVP,

you know, where you got to have like your votes in by the end of the third quarter. And you're like, what do you mean by the end of the third quarter? We still have the fourth quarter to play. Yeah, that is truly jarring when I saw that tweet about the Super Bowl. So the next one for me is Akil Glass. And I'll make my case like this, Trevor, because some people might be like, oh, an Alabama A&M quarterback.

It's not that surprising you didn't get a combine invite. Well, you look at the quarterbacks that did, and there are two that stand out to me, or maybe even three, where I kind of go, why isn't Akil there then, right? Like, Cole Kelly was also an NFL PA Bowl kind of guy. He got an invite and definitely deserved it. He's somebody I want to see at the combine. And Akil Glass, obviously, was an NFLpa guy and had a good game and i thought

should be there and then the other two i look at where i go i can't figure it out dear king man like i just don't think he's an nfl quarterback at this point and you invite him to the combine if you want to see him do other things but as far as we've seen from king is that he wants to try to be a quarterback so if he's not going the combine, and I don't know this is fact yet, but if he's not going to the combine to work out at other position groups, that feels like a quarterback invite that could have been used on glass and it would have been much more valuable just because you look at the jump that he made, you know, he's probably going to come in at,

and I should have looked up his NFL PA measurements, but he was listed at Alabama A&M at 6'5", 215. So you know he's at least, he's going to be at least 6'3". You would assume. And the production, the jump that he made from 2020, where he threw for 16 touchdowns and 5 picks to 36 touchdowns and 7 picks, obviously something was going right there for Glass. And I've watched enough of his film where there are flash plays

that are NFL kind of throws. So I just think when you look at a quarterback class, number one, that's underwhelming in the first place and you want to leave no stone unturned, you want to find those diamonds in the rough. Why is glass not going to be an Indy? It just seems like there there's three hundred twenty four invites. You're telling me a quarterback that had a breakout season that's been a team captain that was an NFLflpa bowl kind of

guy and flashed there this is one that because of the position he plays in my opinion he needed to be there and i don't get it yeah i i do not know a lot about glass so i'm glad that you brought him up because in doing some research not just for this podcast episode but also like right when the combine invite list came out he was a name that i consistently saw there so i i gotta do some more research on him but i'm glad that you brought him to the table i know a lot of people are kind of like hey why didn't this guy get the chance to prove himself in indy so i think that's a good shout out there next guy i'm going with and i'll take a break from the shrine bowl guys because i have a lot of shrine bowl guys that i do want to give a shout out to but master t the running back from ohio state great one i i can't believe master t's not at the combine i don't really understand it okay when you look at master t's early career from ohio state yeah great one i i can't believe master teague's not at the combine

i don't really understand it okay when you look at master teague's early career at ohio state he was behind jk dobbins is like okay well it's jk dobbins right he's not gonna play over dobbins but he played a little bit he came in he's a former four-star running back he was the 11th ranked running back in the 2019 or the 2018 sorry recruiting class so it's like this guy has the pedigree he has the stars and didn't get on the field because of jk dobbins tracer him and beat him out when he transferred from oklahoma over to ohio state okay that makes sense as well and then you've had him play a little sparingly but then travion henderson just absolutely took off at the at the end of the season they're freshmen that they have now so i understand why

he didn't get like I understand why he didn't get like the yards, like he didn't amass the yards, but Connor, this dude's only averaged less than five yards per carry once. And it was in 2020, the abbreviated season. And even with that being the case, he averaged 4.9. So he essentially always averaged more than five yards per carry. He's got nice nice speed he's got nice contact balance is the the shifty student in the world no even when people were kind of hyping him up a couple of years ago i was like ah you know he's kind of stiff i don't know if he's going to be my cup of tea as a running back but no combine invite what in the world is this he's an athlete he played at

a blue blood program and going back to what i said about ali fayed you want to see how he would test in the agility like you would want to see what his three cone is you want to see how he is able to move and stop and start and everything because you can check a decent amount of other boxes with master teague if you can do that so that was one that really stood out to me outside of fayad who i i mentioned who i really like master teague is one that when i as i was looking this up i didn't even realize that he didn't make it and i saw this on a list and i'm like there's no way that's right it's confusing and i went to go search it and sure enough his name's nice name's not even on there it's crazy yeah it really is and he's somebody that has come up in Feldman's Freaks article

as somebody that, you know, would test really well. He's obviously built like, you know, he's solid, to say the least. 225 pounds, pure muscle, pure muscle. You can see the work ethic there. We know what the Ohio State strength and conditioning program can do for guys. You know, Feldman Freaks has had him as a vertical jump of 40 inches a broad jump of 11 feet how is that guy not in any man how is that guy not in any and a sub 4 4 40 so when you look at master stupid you can see some parallels to elijah mitchell's numbers last year

where like everybody like liked elijah mitchell for what he was and you know obviously he had a senior bowl invite so there was a lot more n expectations for Mitchell than there was for Teague, and then he runs in the 4-3s, and everyone's like, oh, wow, this could be a gem, and he had a better year than Trey Sermon for the 49ers. So yeah, that's a weird one that I don't really understand, to be honest with you. It's definitely one that he could have helped himself so much there

that you feel bad for the player. And yes, a lot of times these are indicators of what the NFL thinks, that a lot of these guys will not be drafted. It's tough to say that. But then you look at somebody like Tyler Huntley, Trevor, who did not get a combine invite, had a really good college career for Utah. He was undrafted, and I thought that was a mistake. And he's turned into one of the better backup quarterbacks in the NFL over the last year so the there are misses here even if the guys are

going to go undrafted it just makes a longer road for them so keeping the list moving kind of an interesting one and I do understand why he didn't get the invite Jalen Virgil the notably kick returner from App State now the reason you think he probably doesn't get an invite is because he just didn't do enough as an offensive player full-time he never had that breakout year of over you know 600 yards or was their go-to kind of guy but in a and in this kind of gives you an idea of how much the league has devalued the kick returner i think if virgil was an elite punt returner as well he might end up at the combine but instead you know he's had three kick return touchdowns in the last two seasons and I think that's only on about 32 kick

return attempts so when you're bringing one back to the house on almost one out of every 10 attempted kick returns that's insane that means something there is clicking that you are special at that position but maybe the NFL is not valuing that position enough anymore that they want to see you at the combine and it's a shame for him because I think he could have went there and people would have looked at it and said oh maybe we can do something with him on offense as well maybe we can use him as an effective gunner as well on special teams he's worth a seventh round selection to us and I'll mix in some numbers to know here that I would have gotten to later but since we're talking about Virgil nowgil now just throw it in there 10 to 900 meter uh for app

state's track team so he could fly 40 plus in the vert 40 plus in the vert and benches over 400 pounds so you're talking about strength explosiveness and straight line speed um so i think for virgil you know he's obviously going to get to work out in front of teams, but man, you know, at the combine, he might've been honestly one of the best overall athletes there, especially with special teams potential. Now that you're saying that, I wish I could see him too. It's basically the same thing as Master Teague.

I want these guys to get the chance to put on a show, but you know, we'll certainly, I guess, learn a lot about them as we go through the combine. Two wide receivers that I'll just knock out really quick. Ja' jacory robertson uh robertson sorry from wake forest the wide receiver there he had 71 catches over a thousand yards this past season uh in nine games last year had 62 and 926 so you get a full season i think uh out of what would be there because he only he did that in nine games in 2020 so if you get double digit games from him i think we're looking at back-to-back 1,000 yard seasons um in a pretty

unique offense i'll just say with the uh with the elongated mesh and everything that uh sam harvin was doing their quarterback with wake forest but he's been a benefactor on a lot of that offense and when people are kind of closing in on those mesh points that that RPO, you get to suck the linebackers in. He gets to go right behind him on a dig route or cross a route over the middle. And so he was the benefactor of that. Now, the reason why I would have liked to see him at the combine, not just as kind of a hat tip to, hey, two really good years from Ja'Cory Robertson, is also I don't think he's that fast.

I don't know, man. Like I just – I wasn't blown away by his athleticism. And for a receiver that has pretty good production production i would have liked to see how he tested and another wide receiver who i would have loved to see how he tested was jera stearns because this is a player we've talked about it on this podcast before over a thousand yards after the catch this past season 1900 yards receiving in that crazy western kentucky offense this past year one of the most productive receivers in college football and came into the Shrine Bowl, showed up at about five foot seven, 183 pounds. So he's a smaller dude, but he puts in a show, man. I thought that he played really

well. He was a standout wide receiver at the Shrine Bowl. You mentioned Hiley Stearns with another one along with Phillips and Johnson. And so the guy's got the stats. He's got the film. He's gone up against some better competition at the shrine bowl. Would have loved to see how he tested. I would have loved to see what the straight line speed was for Stearns, what the overall explosiveness was, how quickly he could run in the agility drills, right? Because I think all that stuff matters when you look at a player who has those monster stats and you say, how are you going to stack up in the pros? I wouldn't tell you that jerry stearns is going to be a top 50 top 75 pick or anything but when it comes to those mid late ish rounds stearns does a lot of those things really well that you would go shoot if i can just check

this box athletically i'm gonna make this guy a priority mid to late round pick day three pick i guess would be an easier way for me to say it so those two wide receivers for different reasons i think athletically i would have liked to see what boxes they check really productive in their own offenses but have some question marks that i wish i had some answers to uh i think that their production could have warranted them getting there but clearly they're just gonna have to show out of their pro day so those two wide receivers that i wanted to shout out yeah and i love the call out on sterns somebody that just catches everything like you said he plays bigger than five seven so that's no doubt tough for him um and it happens they happen to be the victim of another deep wide receiver group where you know in the combine they're not they're not going to bring 100 wide

receivers to the combine although you could probably make an argument for 100 of them that's how that's how tough that process is where the league is going honestly you know and it is you're 100 right there's more wide receivers drafted it feels like every year all right i'll knock out my last two back to back derrick dees the tight end from san jose state coming off a season of 47 catches 730 yards four touchdowns in a league that likes the versatility at the tight end position where maybe you can work a guy as an H back. You could play, he's a little small to be playing in line and you can use him in the slot as well. He feels kind of like this year's Kenny Yeboah, that he's a developmental tight end. He can be a, you know, coming to camp as a fourth string kind of guy. Might have to hang around the practice squad, might have to gain some weight and show he can block and you have to have a plan for him.

But you know, this is a great, this would have been a great opportunity for Dees who can probably run pretty well out of the tight end group and you know a transfer from community college to San Jose State and really found his groove there this year and then the last one is Brock Hoffman the center from Virginia Tech that's played multiple spots in the offensive line was an east-west shrine guy I think he has pretty good tape overall where I'm a little bit shocked by this one because you don't go into every center class and go, man, there's starters at center, and, you know, like 12 deep in this one.

So when you look at Hoffman, it felt like he actually had a pretty high floor in this draft. Being somebody that has position versatility, but is probably going to play center long-term, got the east-west shrine invitation, obviously a pretty hard-nosed player, and you look at it and you you you look at the evaluation of him and think okay he can be a backup center in this

league and hang on to that role for a long time and to not even get the combine invite is just a it's not a good sign obviously there is some kind of difference of opinion clearly what i have clearly what shrine has uh which is weird because the All-Star Games use scouting opinions to invite their players. So the scouting opinions clearly intersect here differently from Combine and in this case Shrine. But I like Brock Hoffman and think he's a draftable player. So that one's a letdown. Last guy for me, Gene DeLance,

the offensive tackle from Florida. Another Senior Bowl guy. I talked about him. I brought him up very briefly when we were in between Sh bowl and senior bowl week. And one of my favorite quotes that he gave of the week was I asked him, Hey, if you needed to turn on one tape to say, Hey, this is, this is me as a prospect. This is what I want to show scouts, the scouts go show me what we want to see from you. He said, going up against Will Anderson. And so that obviously

piqued my interest. He's a three-year starter at florida something that i like about his background is the fact that back in 2020 florida threw the ball a lot they were a top five team in the country when it came to passing attempts and passing efficiency they had kyle trash they had cow pits they had cadareous tony right and so it was all about pass blocking this past year it was about running it was a big time running the football So I think that he's played in two different heavy offenses when it comes to pass heavy and then run heavy. And I would have liked to see a man. I would have liked to see how he stacked up athletically with the rest of this offensive line group. I think that he was a little bit of a snub there, man. I'm going to be honest with you. I think that it was anybody else before we move on. I know we're kind of like tying it into numbers to know.

So this isn't the last chance for you, but just wanted to make sure I wasn't stepping on your toes if you had somebody else you wanted to bring to the table. No, you and I made the rundown and I was looking at what you had and I felt like we covered a lot of the really, really big ones. I think, you know,

Hiley is obviously just a gigantic surprise that can't be emphasized enough. When you brought up Master Teague, that one actually slipped my mind. That one is pretty shocking to me as well. And, you know, at the end of the day, there's guys that are going to miss out on that opportunity, and it's not the end for them.

But I think it is good to make the audience aware, like these guys that you've probably seen somewhere as maybe fourth-round picks at times do have a chance to go undrafted. Reed Blankenship's the other one who i think for the middle tennessee state safety that i've seen a lot of people talk about where it's just like he's kind of a tackling machine and he's all over the place and i think that people really wanted to see him there but he's another combine invite that a lot of people have seen talk about that we obviously didn't bring up that i just wanted he's been in the mock drafts

for the last you know going back to summer everybody knew reed blank and yes right right so right he's been he's been one of those late guys well we're going to get some numbers to know connor teased it a little bit he kind of tied it in with one of his guys there as a combine stubs we're going to get some more numbers to know from the pff database but before we do it's a great time to promo what we have over pff.com if you want to get your hands on some of these premium stats that we are about to list you can do so by going to pff.com getting yourself an edge or an elite subscription check out exactly what the pricing models are for each of those see what you get with each but you get the unlocked content you get access to the betting tools you get the fantasy football guide you get the draft guide you get so many different things

so check it out. Get a lot of access to this stuff. And if you do, if you've got a PFF subscription, it'll make it easier for you to get into the show when we kind of open these things up and we say, hey, numbers to know segment coming up this Tuesday. We'd love to hear a number that you guys are just shocked by when you've been doing your football research, when you've been studying your team, the NFL draft, things like that.

So go check it out over at pff.com. What's your first number to know, Connor? Let's get into it, man. You were the first one to do it a couple of weeks ago. You were like, hey, I really like this segment. I want to tack it in here, and I love the idea. So I will give you the floor. I'd love to hear what your first number to know is.

Let me know what you're focusing on. Well, I'm like a kid in the candy store when I got, you know, into the even deeper into the PFF world of numbers. So that's why i was so excited to bring it to the show my first one to me because he's kind of somehow been the hot topic of the draft once again is cave on tibideau and i think we've officially reached a point trevor where he went from you know perfectly rated to maybe overrated where i tried to tell people like he's not chase young don't try to make him chase young he's not miles garrett don't try to make him miles garrett too he's now underrated he is now somehow done the full circle full trip around right son where i think people

are starting to somehow overlook cave on tibido and i will emphasize enough starts with film and of course the combine he's gonna have a great combine, all those things. But just diving into the numbers, and you kind of look across the board of where he was at. So I looked at pass rush win percentage for Kayvon Thibodeau, and you've seen it all on tape, but it's interesting when you stack it side by side with numbers. The first thing that stands out to me is he got better every year.

So I don't really like the talk of that, you know, he bought into the number one overall pick hype from the summer and kind of coasted this year because he was a lot better this year. 2019, 16.6% of the time. He was hurting, wasn't he? He was hurting. And he was playing banged up, yes. So 2019, 16.6% pass rush win percentage. 2020, 17.6.

2021, 22.8. 22.88 so that's a massive jump huge when you look at Aiden Hutchinson he went from 14.5 in 2019 15.1 2020 before he got a significant injury and then all the way up to 24.8 so Aiden Hutchinson had a mammoth mammoth year but it does not mean that Kayvon Thibodeau did also not have a great season rushing the passer and then you look at the two top guys taken in in the last two drafts because I will not count Micah Parsons as a pure edge evaluation he played so much off ball at Penn State right now it's it's it wouldn't be fair Jalen Phillips obviously last year uh he had 20.4. So Thibodeau significantly higher than him in his draft year. Chase Young, 27.9. So that goes back to the point of Chase Young was literally

unblockable, a totally different animal. But when you look at Thibodeau, I cannot emphasize enough, do not overthink this man, right? He doesn't have to be those guys but if he's brian burns or just a really really good pass rusher in his own way that is warranted of a top five selection and the numbers are not lying to you the film is not lying to you the combine will not lie to you when it gets here so do not overthink this man was that a number was that a numbers never lie a part of the numbers to no segment did you just purposely i think i just made up one within the segment at this point numbers do lie though so i know i know i know they do i was wondering how much you were going to lean into that but if you would have if you would have not

if you would have said numbers never lie i think the the higher up folks pff would have loved you even more no i think that you're you're totally there right with cave on tibeto and i i knew when i did my mock draft that kind of opened up this show with me having tibeto going at five a lot of people are going to freak out about it and be like oh you're low on tibeto you're you're disrespecting tibeto and i'm like that's not that's not what it is one mock drafts are kind of done with your ears right i heard daniel jeremiah say this and i absolutely love it rankings are done with your eyes mock drafts are done with done with your ears, right? I heard Daniel Jeremiah say this, and I absolutely love it. Rankings are done with your eyes. Mock drafts are done with your ears, right?

That's the way that it goes. You have your own rankings for how you see players, but often in mock drafts, especially at this time of the year, you're doing them based off of what you hear of these guys, what you hear the stock is, how you're hearing teams feel about these guys. And so that's actually how mock drafts go. And so I agree with you. I still think that, especially in this draft class, Kay class cave on tibido is a guy to covet he's he's going to be

a very impactful pro for you so anybody that's downplaying it further than that is probably taking too far you are right uh my numbers to know i'm gonna talk about a wide receiver that i think is just he, he's getting slept on. I don't know how else to say it. Purdue wide receiver David Bell. Have you watched him, Connor? Have you watched David Bell? I have, and I was very impressed.

It was back in, I'm going to pull up my notes right now for Mr. David Bell. I was very impressed with what I saw when I watched him over the summer, and he carried that into this year. And Trevor, the thing that stood out to me, the third line in my watched him over the summer. And he carried that into this year. And Trevor, the thing that stood out to me, the third line in my notes is from the summer, impressive production as a freshman and sophomore. Yes, yes. And it really is.

So I have an article coming out today as this podcast is released. It's on Tuesday. I sat down with David Bell and I got to know him a little bit better. And yeah, I guess I'm pubbing my own article here a little bit, but I want people to take note of David Bell because this is a guy who has just had success no matter what level of competition that he has gone up against.

When he was in high school, he started his varsity team as a true freshman. And this isn't like some, you know, rinky-dink small town school. Like they were competing at the highest level and he was able to start as a true freshman, was only the second player in his high school's history to do that. He went undefeated in his senior season of football, won a state championship. And a couple months before that, Connor, he had gone undefeated in basketball for the basketball team

and won a state title. So this guy didn't lose for an entire calendar year with the sports that he was playing, basketball and football. He is such a natural athlete, man. the basketball team and won a state title so this guy didn't lose for an entire calendar year with the sports that he was playing basketball and football he is such a natural athlete man and that's the best way that i have to describe him i talk about it in the piece you know a lot of people sometimes use natural as a little bit of a backhanded compliment right they'll go well he's not the biggest he's not the fastest but he's just really natural right i think that's how a lot of people looked at davante smith last year right they would go oh he's not the biggest he's just really natural right i think that's how a lot of people looked at devante smith

last year right they would go oh he's not the biggest he's not the fastest but he's just a natural that's how i feel about david bell this year across the last three years you mentioned it since his true freshman season at purdue he has more receiving snaps he has more receptions he has more receiving yards than any player in the Big Ten. Chris Olave included, Garrett Wilson included, DeSean or Jahan Dotson included, Ty Fryfogle included. Like all of these guys, he has more production than all of them. He was able to hit the ground running with 1,000 yards his first year at Purdue while Rondell Moore was hurt.

Second year was a COVID-abbreviated year, especially in the Big Ten. He would have eclipsed 1,000 yards again. And then this past year, he was used a ton. So the numbers to know right there, really just how dominant this guy has been in the big 10, the last three years, no wide receiver has been more productive than him in his conference since coming to Purdue. He dreamed of him and Rondell Moore in the same offense. They didn't get that because the hamstring injury in 2020 or 2019, and then the lower body injury from rondale more in 2020 uh 2019 and 2020 i'm getting confused my years now but essentially i say all that to say purdue leaned on this guy a ton he

delivered every single time and this goes back as far as you want to go in his football journey he has been the go-to guy at all phases and I think he's going to make a damn good pro, and I don't think enough people are talking about him. So those are the numbers. Wanted to shout out David Bell and how well he has performed over the last three seasons. I like it a lot because I think he is someone that is going to get that label of, like,

he's just going to find a way. I didn't think he was a great separator, but I think he has excellent ball skills. And I think when your ball skills are you know that top tier you are going to find a way to make the plays when guys are around you and in one of the things i had my notes is he's so good in traffic there's a lot going on around him and he just finds a way to secure the catch and make the play at all times 27 explosive plays this year plays of 15 plus yards so for someone that gets the label of being not that fast not that good of a separator he's winning down the field he sure

he's open a lot he's sure making plays down the field and he's doing it consistently freshman sophomore and junior year uh 11 contested catches so david bell is man he he's like the honda civic of this class man like you're not rolling it out of the ferrari that of the garage and everyone's like oh look at that guy like he's just the dude that's going to get you from point a to point b week after week after week and you know the car is going to start you know it's not going to break down you're going to put 200 000 miles on it that's dav David Bell for me. And those players matter. I'm going a bells and whistles version because I don't want to disrespect the man and his talent. I'm going a bells and whistles version of a Nissan Altima

because Nissan Altima was my first car shout out. So that's what I'm going with. I like the Honda Civic example, but I had to make it a little personal there for me. Car comps only on the NFL Stock Exchange, Todd. Tune in next in next week see what we got all right so uh love the David Bell shout out because we didn't get to talk about him enough on the wide receiver preview so everybody gets that now all right my next one is just a point that I've emphasized a little bit especially on the running back show is that missed tackles matter so much when you look at the players that are

gems of the running back position or even early picks the running back position like the Najee Harris even like the AJ Dillon like the Javante Williams but then also the Elijah Mitchells of the world the guys that force missed tackles in college at such a high rate usually translate to having the same success at the next level and maybe they won't be as elite as they were in college but they can be an above average or an average starter that was drafted in the fifth plus round. So the two names that stand out to me in this category are Brian Robinson, Jr.

And Tyler Algier, Trevor, I know you had Tyler Algier in your top five running back. So you're obviously a pretty high on him and I'm with you. There's a reason to believe Ryan Robinson, Jr. 79 missed tackles force this year, Algier 76 missed tackles force this year

that is top 10 in the nation for both of those guys and when you tie it together that both are reliable and pass protection willing uh aware very strong the way they are both built that is a sign to me two guys that i don't think will hear their name called until day three of the draft could very well end up starting at some point as rookies so a lot of things that translate with running backs a position that is devalued and I get it it's more so just you can find the gems later on those are probably the two guys that you have to feel really good about despite where their draft projection stands I love it man I think that it's an absolute art, right? Making guys miss, whether it's lower on the shoulder, whether it's fancy feet,

whether it's good moves or something, it's an art. And I think that running back is often, people talk about it, poetry in motion, it's art in motion, and it's guys being really good at their craft. And when you can force guys to miss tackles, I think you understand your own abilities really, really well,

because that means that you are able to understand, and this is where Tyler Algier and also Abram Smith is a former linebacker. This is where this linebacker background for these running backs comes in handy because you've, you've been on both sides of the tackle, right? You've been in pursuit and then you've also been a ball carrier. And when you were able to force missed tackles to me it says that you know who you are so well that you know what your opponent is going to want to do is he going to want to go low on you is he going to try to go this way like does he think

that you're not going to be able to cut it back does he think that you're not going to be able to run him over and then you can counter that you could do something a little bit different so i see force miss tackles not just as high talent that it takes to do that but also a really great understanding of your own game so i think that's a great shout out with both of those guys as well um i wanted to go to the nfl for my next one i'm gonna quote my good friend pff seth seth galena who tweeted this out after the super bowl bangles 24.5 team pass blocking grade in the super bowl was the third worst by any team this season you can only get away with it for so long connor that's it you can only get away with it for so long. And it's funny because on the PFF live show previewing the Super Bowl, I believe it was Ian Harditz who was on the desk who said, you know, they went up against Jeffrey Simmons to start the Bengals.

And then they went up against Chris Jones. And now they're going up against Aaron Donald. And it just became a point where you're upgrading a little bit every time to where you get to the final boss, if you will, is the way that he said it. And it just, it became too much. It became too much. There's only the Bengals for as fun as this season was. And I really do not want to take anything away from it because it was an awesome ride and it was awesome to watch.

They very much jumped the shark of their own roster. The defense played very well and very together and i think that that was really important but they did not have the offensive trenches to get to the super bowl they really didn't and they were so close to winning it which is it makes the story even crazier and honestly even better for them we mentioned on yesterday's episode and i'm throwing this number to almost fortify kind of the conversation we had there. It's not just that the Bengals' offensive line wasn't good. It was really, really bad.

When you get to the Super Bowl, it's got to be a lot better than that. And so before we even start calling the Bengals a Super Bowl contender for next year, even as the team that almost won it this year, you got to upgrade the offensive line. 24.5, can't have it as a unit, cannot have it. So go upgrade the offensive line, Cincinnati.

It was unfortunately not very pretty. It's just amazing that they made it that far. And, you know, I kind of kept using the phrase, like the hourglass was going to finally empty out on them. And it did. And it didn't even empty out the first half. It was the second half that it was just a complete disaster. That number to me, and as bad as it can be, clearly, shows that the Bengals don't need to get too great.

I don't even think the Bengals need to get too good. Can the Bengals offensive line go from abysmal, dreadful, horrific, to mediocre? Because if it can, and you have the same injury luck, they can win a Super Bowl. But this is a big fix. This is a very big fix. This is, once again, when you're at so low in a group,

a vital, vital group. Getting to mediocre can be really hard when you're not picking in the top 10. When you're a team that you have cap dollars, but you don't have a reputation for coming out and buying the premium assets every year. And you even look at Trey Hendrickson, who was a great free agency signing for them. It wasn't guaranteed money over three years.

And they didn't come out and treat him like he was this top five edge rusherher so I think they do find value but I think with the offensive line they they need to not mess around essentially is the point and they got to get it right so I'm going to take this right to offensive line easy transition thank you Trevor no I'll go back to I'll go back to college or really the cross of the two with NFL draft. This is just mind-blowing to me, and this is in no way an insult at Evan Neal. But we talk about Evan Neal being worthy of the number one overall pick, and I do believe that.

And he played in the SEC, a little bit different of an animal. So Evan Neal's impact run block percentage. Let's just make this really easy. Running plays where he opens up a can of whoop-ass on somebody and gets the best of them. The old Trent Williams. The old Trent Williams. Look at it like that.

17.4% of the time, he opened up a can of whoop-ass on the run. That's a great number. It's awesome, especially in the SEC. Icky Ekwunu, 25.9. So we'll just call it an even 26. And when you turn on the film, Ekwunu just, it is

the old Trent Williams. It is that over one out of every four run plays, he is embarrassing someone. It is not like, oh, cut a guy off. Like, oh, hold the point of attack for two seconds. It's like, I'm going to kill you. Cut a guy's life support off, basically.

Yes, I am going to put you six feet in the turf, and then I'm going to go find your teammate, and I'm going to throw him on top of you. So this is in no way a knock on Evan Neal. I do think he's worth the number one overall pick, and I think on the flip side, Iquanu is not the pass protector yet on the edge that neil is but he is a certified game-changing run blocking presence that is rare honestly at that number it's rare uh he's he's a beast man i listen i i selfishly

want him on one side mckay beckton on other, man. I just... That'd be fun. And Elijah Verthucker and AVT. Yeah, that'd be pretty crazy. That'd be just like the meanest... Can you imagine, Connor, if somewhere later... Honestly, I can't imagine good things. If somewhere later in the draft,

they got themselves Tyler Smith, the offensive tackle from Tulsa. Have you watched Tyler Smith play? I have seen a little bit, and he is another, you know, throws the haymakers around. The man looks like he's in a UFC match sometimes when he locks up with defenders. If they somehow made that happen, I'd be like,

all right, I'm only picking the Jets. I'm only picking the Jets in Madden from this point on. I'm just going to try to embarrass these guys as much as humanly possible. No, that's a really great reference there. My last one's quick, but it was a number that I found that I wanted to just bring to the pod because I had to shout it out. Leo Chennault, the linebacker from Wisconsin.

Six foot two, 260 pounds. I think they got him listed at Wisconsin like 255, but I think he's more like 260. He put out a video. Now, I'll actually preface it a little bit more with that this he's not just this only off-ball linebacker kind of type right they put him on the defensive line they've got him in the a-gap all the time they've got him running straight at centers offensive guards these dudes who outweigh him by like 60 pounds and he's going

head up on him not just matching them strength for strength but also ripping off getting to the backfield man he is a he is a box defender through and through man and i think the nfl is really going to covet uh what chanel has in his strength and his versatility there he put out a video two years ago now what is it it's 20 yeah it's 2022 so it'd be two years ago it was it was in 2020 of him benching 225 40 times 40 40 times which would be one short of the combine record for an off-ball linebacker which is 41 i can't remember uh i think i had it up here. Who went 41? It was Ternanande in 2006. So you got to go all the way back there to find 41 reps.

The next closest is Liam Ezekiel from 2005. He had 36. I'm trying to find if there was a more recent one. Who's one that's actually been recent? We had a bunch of 2010s, 2011s. Mike Hall in 2015 had 31. I remember that. Man, Max Bulla had 30. BJ Goodson had 16.

I mean, oh, Kalike Hudson had 30. Okay, so in 2020s. And then Cody Barton also had 30. So now we go, okay. So 30 is kind of like the mark. And it certainly seems like Leo Chennault has the chance to absolutely obliterate that. Now, in my best combine bench guy voice, I'm not sure that he locked out enough of those reps to really get a full 40. However, when you're throwing up that kind of weight,

especially with that kind of buffer room from what guys normally bench, I think that Leo Chennault has got a chance to put on a show at the bench press when he gets to the combine i think so too i think this is a guy that that benches for breakfast right i mean you look at it it's just like it's just nothing for him um obviously pretty notorious for writing you know the death row on the arms their linebacker unit loves to sharpie up the arms but yeah i love that one because i'm curious like i agree that maybe it's not it wasn't combined form and a lot of guys get caught you know obviously that there's videos of that and then it builds expectations that might not be fair but the fact that was two years ago trevor makes me really i really do believe he can

get to four and he's bigger now like bigger now. He's bigger and stronger now. He's insane looking. He could legit threaten the 40. So, okay. I wanted to give Leo Chennault that to hype up the combine a little bit before we got in there. We are ending this podcast with the very first Or We Riot segment. Once again, I must legally state that Connor and I are not condoning

any sort of violence at all whatsoever. Do not actually riot in the streets. But it is a fun way for us to say, hey, we would love for this to happen or we really need this to happen. So we're each bringing one to the table. We're kind of setting the table, if you will, for what we would love this segment to be. Because honestly, guys, we would love for you guys to take over this segment we would love for this to be y'all's thing like part of a mailbag fan friday thing where we just have this segment we open it up and we get to take requests from you guys and read them here on this show but we'll kind of we'll kind of give our first little

or we riots here so connor let me hear it what is your topic that you were bringing to the table what are you getting all up in arms about today first of all say i'm really excited for the day we have like voicemails of this that yes this is gonna be fun or we riot over and over again my first one is and and maybe this is a little um dramatic but that's the point right? Is normalize going for two-point conversions, or we riot. I look at the way, the aggressive nature, the way the NFL is going right now, and I'm not saying every single, after

every single touchdown, go for two. But I'm saying in games where you are the underdog, or you're on the road in a bad matchup, or there's something going on, bad weather conditions, like the old New England-Buffalo game that we saw on the road in a bad matchup or there's something going on, bad weather conditions like the old New England Buffalo game that we saw on the whipping winds and cold. I look at teams that were very aggressive going for two-point conversions this year.

The top two were the Chargers and the Cowboys. No surprise there, the Chargers. Trevor, they were 7 for 11, okay? And the Cowboys were 6 of 10. So it's not like the stress, the teams that are getting very aggressive with it at the top are seeing rewards. And I see the way the league is going right now. You're seeing a lot of teams that can threaten with the run or can spread you out. There are a lot more creative calls like Philly Philly, uh, in the red area on the goal line

instance. I'm not saying completely eliminate the kicking, but one, there were plenty of extra points that were missed this year. Like, okay, look at the Chargers, right? They were 7-11 on two-point conversions. They were 40 for 47 on extra points. They missed seven extra points this year. So I'm just looking at it and going,

if you can come out, say you score first, and you surprise a team and go for two and You are confident enough that you're over 50% getting it for some teams in that case Maybe you're over 60% and getting it you completely control The pace and the way the game is gonna go where that team is on their heels going Well first we got to get in the end zone and then Just to tie this thing we got to go for two. And maybe we didn't prep that all week.

Maybe we didn't allocate the hours into more two-point play packages while our opponent did. So I think if you're a team that's always looking up, right? Like the way the Bengals came into that game against the Chiefs, there's millions of examples of this. If you're a team that you know there's a good chance you're going to be on the ropes and you'd rather go out swinging than take the safe approach and just lose anyway i think this is a new avenue that the creative coaches will explore going forward pff underscore

pff underscore connor baby he's out here advocating for the two-point conversions i absolutely love it all right increase the likelihood of two-point conversions i absolutely love it all right increase the likelihood of two-point conversions or we riot my or we riot raheem morris defensive coordinator for the los angeles rams either he gets a legit head coaching shot next year or we riot man i love it morris has done such an incredible job building his career back up since his days in Tampa as a head coach he was picked Raheem Morris okay I'm gonna take you guys back a little bit Raheem Morris was a defensive backs coach for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers when they were moving on from John Gruden and when ownership was like no we're not spending all this money that John Gruden wants us to spend we're not doing that they got a new GM in Mark Dominick.

And Mark Dominick basically, like, needed a scapegoat. And Raheem Morris at the time, I believe he was right around 30 years old, they kind of came to him. They're like, hey, you want the head coach gig? And of course Raheem Morris wants a head coach gig. This is his shot. How many shots do you get in the NFL? Even if it was probably way too early.

Even if he thought it was way too early. He was taking it. And you know what? He went 10-6 in the first year and he told the ownership, he said, I will never do this again with the roster that you've given me. I will never do it again.

And they said, nope, we're still not spending money. You did it once, you can do it again. The Buccaneers ended up being terrible the next two seasons. They fire Raheem Morris. It was an unbelievably unfair shake. And he was, I mean, he was kind of used as like the head coach that they were aggressively going against what john gruden was doing with requesting

all this money and wanting all these high price free agents and raheem morris was like yeah i will try to win with these younger guys we'll try to make a young roster that's what they did they had a really young roster they perform really well and there's just no other way to say he got screwed man this was not a legit opportunity for him he ends up leaving he's kind of bounced around the league since then and you know he gets a couple of different defensive coordinator positions and he's defensive coordinator for the los angeles rams after brandon staley leaves and brandon staley man he was lauded as this incredible defensive mind the next wave of defense in the NFL. And what did Raheem Morris do this past season?

Well, he took over where Brandon Staley left off last year, and he supercharged that thing, and they went into a Super Bowl, man. They went in and they won the Super Bowl. And in the Super Bowl against Joe Burrow, Bengals went 3-for-14 on third down, 1-for-3 on fourth down. They had seven total sacks including obviously what aaron donald was able to do but more important than that is they saw the initial game plan and then they moved their alignment to make sure that donald was the biggest force to gain a lot of

attention against the right guard of the cincinnati bangles knowing that there wasn't going to be extra help the center couldn't come over and help them and that just opened up more game plans as the game went on for Von Miller to wreak havoc in the fourth quarter with all those stunts going straight up the middle unblocked right at Joe Burrow that's the kind of stuff that Raheem Morris was orchestrating whether it was work in the secondary whatever the linebackers were doing or how he was using those really talented defensive line pieces raheem morris has been fantastic all year long it was a brilliant defensive game plan you look at that

second half and outside of those couple of first couple of plays the second half bangles didn't do squat the reason yeah they got talented players we know they got talented players but who's telling them who is orchestrating him the way that they need to it's raheem morris get this guy a legit head coach opportunity next year or are we right that is what we are asking here raheem morris absolutely deserves it loved raheem man i i felt so bad for him for what happened in tampa would love to see him get another head coach gig. I felt good. Gospel. Gospel right there.

And I would argue that he is even, the way he's diversified his resume has made him even that much more impressive when you look at, you know, obviously things did not go right in Tampa. A lot of that not his fault. But the fact that he was able to go to the Falcons and hold the positions over a five-year period of assistant head coach, pass game coordinator, wide receivers coach, defensive coordinator,

and at one point the interim head coach there. That is really telling me that you are a defensive guy, right? He obviously graduated from Hofstra on Long Island, played safety for Hofstra. He's been a defensive guy his whole life. And then you were able to go into a situation in Atlanta and work on the offensive side of the ball, see things from the other side of the ball, and then you go to the Rams, obviously where you're in a room with Sean McVay, one of the best head coaches in the entire NFL

and offensive mastermind, no matter what the Super Bowl showed you, McVay has had enough years of earning that label. And now you've worked with him and you've practiced every day, not only ending and winning a Super Bowl, but you've practiced every day of the traditional modern offense right now.

The offenses around the league that are excelling. McVay's offense, and then you have variations of that run by Zach Taylor, Matt LaFleur, very successful NFL team. So I love what you said. I think he's the perfect head coach candidate for next year. Honestly, probably should have been a hotter name this year. Agreed.

And now that he's won the Super Bowl, the Rams are going to probably be very good again next year. We're waiting on, you know, will Aaron Donald actually retire? Other than that, I mean, they get Robert Woods back next year. You got Cooper Cupp and Matt Stafford. You know, Whitworth might retire. But they have enough there that they are going to be relevant again. And he deserves to be a hot name on the market.

And I'm with you. And especially when you go through the list of, and if you listen to our head coaching preview show, not to take away from some of those guys, but Raheemris to me is a more exciting candidate than 80 of those candidates we went through especially sitting here after the super bowl man especially looking at how he capped off this past season so there we go that's the opening or we briot segment we would love to get you guys opinions on a lot of these things hopefully have a lot of fun with it maybe get some voicemails in here if not then then uh we'll at least read them off as we kind of get to grow this thing a little bit more so uh that was a little bit of a different podcast we had a lot

of segments in this one let us know what you really liked what you'd love to hear again as we are building out this podcast we want to make it what you guys want to hear so as you hear new segments let us know at tampa bay trey on Twitter, at Connor J. Rogers on Twitter as well. You could also leave an iTunes review. We'd appreciate it if you left us a good iTunes review. That obviously really helps us out. And if you have a suggestion for this show, what segments you like, things that you're digging, what you want to see more of,

let us know there as well. On Thursday's episode, we're taking a break. We're taking that Monday or we're taking that Wednesday break. Excuse me. But we're back with a vengeance hot out the gate another ranking episode and it is edge rusher we're getting to edge rushers it is a premium position there's a lot of guys to talk about so many different shapes and sizes of edge rushers that you are going to find in this class and every single year in the nfl draft And we know that Edgerusher,

as we see every single year, plays such a pivotal role in who ends up hoisting that Lombardi trophy at the very end. That's all on Thursday. See you guys then. Thank you.