NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 115. What Matters Most From Every Game of Week 12 in the NFL

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers go through every game on the Sunday slate of games form Week 12 in the NFL and tell you what really matters most beyond the final scores

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we're telling you what matters most from every game that we saw in Week 12 in the NFL. That means, of course, we're going back to Thanksgiving as well. We'll give you the three Thanksgiving Day games and then what we saw from the Sunday slate of Week 12 in the NFL as well. We'll give you the three Thanksgiving day games and then what we saw from the Sunday slate of Week 12 in the NFL as

well. We'll tell you what mattered most beyond just the box score, what it meant for playoff chances, for individual contracts, for guys who are moving up the roster, down the roster, for the draft implications, all that good stuff. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me as always is Connor Rogers. Let's

ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sycamore. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you guys, bellies full of Thanksgiving food and eyes and brains and intake full of everything that we saw over the week. It was week 12 in the NFL season. Connor, how we feel, my man? Have you have you finished the leftovers yet? Or when is the proper statute of limitations on leftovers for Thanksgiving? Saturday, it's time to move on.

And I know people will think that's diabolical, but I think it's about right. I think it's about right. Cause you know, you got to realize us being both six, five, two 40, we eat a lot on Thanksgiving. And so like after a couple of plates on Thanksgiving, and I have to admit, I inhaled more mashed potatoes and Turkey, just those two things alone that I ever have in any year. By the time Friday came around, dude was like i don't even want to see turkey i don't even want to look at it and then of course you know turkey sandwiches are just unbelievable that you do come around on it but by the time saturday rolled around i was long over it so i think that's a it's a fair timeline right yeah i'm trying to think i've probably pushed it to sunday i'm sure i have a couple of times but like start getting into like monday tuesday leftovers i mean like you can't no that's

that's that's barbaric so we can't we can't be doing that uh by the way i i somebody tweeted at us the 6'4", 240 or 6'5", 240 reference that we have on this show. And Alyssa, my fiancee, was next to me. Oh, boy. And I explained to her that our bid on the show is that Conor and I are both 6'5", 240. And she was like, hmm. And I'm like, oh, okay. Wow. Yikes.

Hate that for me. Hate that for me. Yeah, that's a tough one. I've kept that one hidden pretty well. You know what? Look, some people just can't handle sitting next to somebody who's 6'5", 240. That's all they do. They just feel small, sometimes a little insecure.

It's tough. It's tough. It's a burden that we carry, you know, but we do it because we have to. Nothing like walking into a bar and you have to duck your head under the door and you're just like i'm sorry sorry i just hate when the shower head you know it's just too low you know it's just it's you get it yeah where are we starting today week 12 we're telling you guys everything that mattered from uh from all the games we watched not just on sunday but we'll also get to the thanksgiving day

game as games as well we'll fire off some thoughts since uh those games absolutely mattered connor where do you want to start with this one as we give the good people our takeaways from week 12 i think let's go right in the order of thanksgiving and we started with bill's lions the slate was it looked excellent and it ended up being excellent all these games were decided by one touchdown or less which is pretty amazing to say about all three thanksgiving games the bills and lions man i always root for the lions on thanksgiving because i look at all those people in the stands spending their thanksgiving day at the at the field and the lines are usually not very good they are looking more promising by the month,

but I always root for them, and this was a tough one, man. It felt like the whole time, it was just their day against the Bills when you watch the Lions, and ultimately, Trevor, they lose a heartbreaker 28-25. Yeah, I think my big takeaway from this game is actually a positive one and i i i don't know if lions fans are really going to push back on me on this and and so i'd be interested to see what the response is but i actually liked what i saw from dan campbell in this game when it came to him being aggressive maybe a four fourth down opportunities where they had the chance to go

for it and they went for all of them and in all four instances they were mathematically correct like the analytics said hey you know you have a better chance of getting this than not the success rate here is actually in your favor and he trusted that now of course you have to go out and you have to execute it and they did in this game which was which was really promising but i i just i it is these decisions with matt campbell it's matt campbell uh dan campbell shout out iowa state that give me faith that i want him here next year we've had this back and forth conversation with the lions obviously not going well do you make him escape go do you fire him and you and I have had the conversations of well is that really fair because the rebuild really was a three-year plan anyway so just

because you've lost a little bit now that you're in the moment are you going to go back on what the original plan was because it feels like the plan was always to have Jared Goff's contract and eventually at some point probably after that second year be in position to go get a quarterback I think they're in position to go get a quarterback this coming off season but we've wondered if Dan Campbell was going to be the guy to make that pick it's decisions like this and a willingness to honestly look in the right direction I think use all of the tools that are always there around you and we're not sitting here on a PFF show saying that oh you always go forward on fourth day. You always want to make this decision. No, I do think there is something to be said about you feeling the heartbeat of your team, you knowing in practice how well you executed. Those things definitely go into it beyond the

numbers. I'm not trying to sit here and say that you always got to trust it. But in those situations, especially on Thanksgiving, I felt like Dan Campbell did a really great job being open to the things that could help him make the right decisions. And in that instance, that gives me faith in him moving forward, that he is the right coach for the job that he is learning, that he is really trying to embrace everything around him.

Now I know people are going to say, Hey, how they handled the play calling at the end of the first half and the second half wasn't ideal. And I agree with that. Obviously there's some game and clock management decisions that are tough but we see that they're tough around the NFL in fact it's not the last time we're going to talk about it here on this very show so those are things that happen week in and week out but I just I do think that Dan Campbell is going in the right direction I hope he's the guy to make the quarterback pick this offseason and I hope to give him a chance next year I like that take a lot

obviously we've been rooting for this regime we We root for the Lions during their rebuild. So I'm with you all the way on that. I'll go on the other side and look at the Bills right now. And I think what matters most from this game for me with Buffalo is what ultimately happens with Von Miller. I think the Bills are a team that have dealt with a lot of tough injuries this year. They've been beat up in their front seven, plenty. Milano, they were a different team when he was off the field. They they've been beat up in their front seven plenty milano they were a different team when he was off the field they've been very beat up on the back end with their two safeties a something they're still feeling the ramifications of their offensive line they've just dealt with injuries and guess what all contenders do it's a matter of how you respond

and what kind of depth your gm and your personnel department has built but some you just can't replace and Von Miller is one of those guys Von Miller got that six-year contract because the Bills felt like he was the guy that will get them over the hump of not being an AFC playoff team not being in the AFC championship game but in the Super Bowl so the plan for Miller right now it sounds like they let the swelling go down and reassess, maybe try to play with a brace and believe something he's done before. But man, that injury for the bills will be massive.

If it's something that lingers or shuts down his season and could ultimately be the most important aspect of this football game. I feel like if they would have offered Von Miller that contract that they did and said, you only have to play in the fourth quarter, they still probably would have offered him the same amount of money. Now, obviously, I'm kidding there, but that is to your point. It is those late season, late game moments that they absolutely need him. It's why there have been times already so far this season

when they have played in big games and Von Miller has shown up big that we've said worth every penny because he is showing up in exactly the ways they need him to, and they are going to need him for that deep postseason run. They're going to need that closer, if you will, at the end of games to really help them finish off some really good teams. Okay, you want to just go in order? Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants next? Yeah, Cowboys, Giants next.

All right, Cowboys. Cowboys win this game 28 to 20 but late touchdown from the giants made this one closer than it felt like it was going to be at the end which is kind of saying something because the giants were winning this game at halftime i believe it was 13 to 7 was the halftime score and then it just felt like the cowboys offense came alive and more so than that Connor it felt like you could see the talent discrepancy of these two groups so what do you think about this one what mattered most I think that was it right now it kind of shows where both of these franchises are at right now

as much as the records tell you different the Cowboys scored 21 consecutive points in the second half it didn't it started to not really feel like a game for much of the fourth quarter i just look at it right now and go i guess what matters most to me is is two layers of it one the cowboys are really good and the cowboys are a legit contender because of a stable of pass rushers a number one corner a franchise quarterback that for some reason is polarizing i will never understand it i think dac is really really good i don't know how we come back to these arguments every year and they have some weapons and they have a two-headed monster backfield remember how much shit we got for uh for drafting dac early in the league redraft this summer

yeah i don't understand what people want more from dac prescott so the cowboys the good and what matters most is they are exactly what we think. They're a legit NFC contender. For the Giants at this point, it's rude to call them a pretender because they've just overachieved expectations beyond belief. They just haven't built the roster yet for Brian D'Abel that they can get into shootouts with teams like this. That's what it comes down to for me.

And there it is. Well done, Trevor. I should have just kept going. I you I told you that was gonna be the bit anytime I hear the sirens just gonna hit the salute you just gave the salute by the way if you're listening audio only but I think the glass half full for the Giants is they still hang around in these big time games and their personnel is not even close to what Brian Dable is going to build here. And obviously that's going to start with how they handle quarterback in the offseason, but I look at the wide receiver position. They need another tight end.

They're still going to make some changes on the offensive line, another group that's really, really banged up, even though a guy like Nick Gates comes in and just plays his heart out in this game. But I think for the Giants here, you could see a team that is in year one of the plan versus a team that's so far away from that. My big takeaway, and you mentioned it a little bit right there, this team needs a wide receiver one, man.

That's what matters most to me. Obviously, I felt like, I know we were going to talk about the Cowboys. We talked about them a little bit last week as well. I kind of came on this show and said, hey, I wasn't giving enough credit a couple of weeks ago when I said, ah, yeah about the Cowboys. We talked about them a little bit last week as well. I kind of came on this show and said, Hey, I wasn't giving off enough credit a couple of weeks ago when I said, ah, yeah, the Cowboys are good.

Are they really contenders when they play as well as we've seen over the last couple of weeks now, granted not in a whole game, but they put a hurting on the Minnesota Vikings. And then for the second half of this giants game, they really came alive again. And they showed you what this offense can be when it's clicking. And it's a tough offense to stop. It's an offense going to put up a lot of points on you especially

if they come out and they make it a full day so i knew that we were going to chat about the cowboys a little bit obviously michael parsons absolute animal andrew thomas gave up his first sack of the season from a move that man parsons and maybe only parsons can do on that sack that he got from andrew thomas which was incredible but outside of the Cowboys, if we go to the New York giants, because this is a draft show, obviously they just desperately need a wide receiver. One have not had a 1000 yard receiver since Odell Beckham jr. In 2018.

And right now the guys on the roster, I like Darius Slayton. I do, but he's a, he is a, and that's true too. He's earning himself some big money. So he's not going to be able to come back cheap,

but everybody else who's there. Yeah. Okay. Wanda Robinson, nice speed option for you, but I think he's more of just a slot receiver and a guy who could be an X factor for you. The guy that could be anything close to a wide receiver one. I like Sterling Shepard as well, but he's been there a while.

Hasn't made an impact even through the injuries. We know what's up or what's not up with Kenny Galladay. Just that experiment seems like it's gone wrong for the Giants. So they haven't, it's not like they haven't tried, but they just need to invest serious resources, mainly through the draft, it feels like, to get themselves a young stud wide receiver. Last draft, for them to not come away with any kind of a wide receiver,

it's tough when you look at who they could have picked. Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Drake London, Jamison Williams, all of those guys. It's tough when you look at that and you say, oh man, they had two picks in the top 10 and they didn't come away with any of them. But you got to be happy with what Kayvon Thibodeau is doing even beyond the stat sheet.

He is making a big time impact. He's going to continue to get better. He's been playing really well. And then Evan Neal, okay. Yeah, he's struggling a little bit in his rookie year, but so did Andrew Thomas. You got the example right there to continue to get better. He's been playing really well. And then Evan Neal, okay, yeah, he's struggling a little bit in his rookie year, but so did Andrew Thomas. You got the example right there to continue to have faith in those two trench investments, which I liked.

Ultimately, though, what matters most for me is that we could talk about how the Giants want to run the ball. We could talk about do you believe in Daniel Jones or do you not? We could talk about how much Shaquan Barkley brings you value-wise and when you need to emphasize him and how much you need to emphasize him. But at the end of the day, if you don't have that wide receiver one for the Giants, it's just not going to be able to compete with teams like Dallas when they're throwing the ball and moving the ball the way that we saw in the second half.

And that, to me, was the biggest talent gap area that I saw between the Giants and the Cowboys. It's not that the Giants weren't in it. It's not that they didn't care. It's not that they were completely undisciplined or anything like that. They just didn't have a major player in the passing game to really go to and lean on. And I think that's got to be an emphasis for them, maybe even emphasis number one for them going into the offseason after they figure out, of course, what to do with Daniel Jones at the quarterback spot.

So that's kind of what I thought from this game. All right, Patriots, Vikings, the final game of Thanksgiving. And boy, I mean, once again, another game that just did not disappoint a game that it felt like the Patriots were going to be OK. I thought Mac Jones played really, really well. That's actually what mattered most to me on the Patriots side. There's been a lot of questions around Mac Jones this year and rightfully so because honestly for about 80% of

the year I think he's been pretty bad to be honest with you and I think that you're starting to see signs of life he looked decisive he looked accurate he finished the day 28 to 39 for 382 yards and two touchdowns the Vikings not getting a ton on the ground this is what new england does they shut down the run dalvin cook 22 carries only 42 yards but justin jefferson does what he does trevor he just takes over games it's unbelievable so it's weird to call it what matters most is mac jones looks good as the patriots playoff road got a lot harder losing this game. It's hard for me to have a what matters most for Minnesota as they sit here nine and two, right? How much

really changes for Minnesota as they're at their nine and two, they're in control in their division right now. I guess what they're looking for obviously is to try to finish as the one seed in the NFC. That would be what matters most on their side is that those hopes are alive and well but if New England wants to make this playoff run this year they need consistency at the quarterback position under Mac Jones and this was the game where he kind of grabbed the bull by the horns again finally and said I'm going to bring us consistency here and our defense has been really good this year but I'm going to be the guy to find that again yeah and I think you know vikings fans would would push back on that and say that the defense played bad and it's kind of been up and down all year but still you've got to have a quarterback that can capitalize on that and i do agree with you this is a good mac jones game and you mentioned it playoffs i mean the

patriots are not out of the playoffs right now 32, according to our simulations at pff.com. But hey, it's still 32%, right? You're still alive in it. And to your point, if you're still going to be alive, only way that 32% ends up being 100% is if Mac Jones can be somebody for you. If he can be a big-time playmaker for you down the stretch. My what matters most is, man, I like Kevin O'Connell.

What Kevin O'Connell is doing for the Minnesota Vikings is awesome, man. Vikings have two losses this year. One of them was a you were not even close in week two against the Philadelphia Eagles. They bounce back the next week, and they get a nice win against a divisional opponent in the Detroit Lions. Last week, they had a you werewere-not-even-close loss against the Dallas Cowboys, and guess what? They come back, short week, take care of business,

get a win against New England Patriots. I really love that from him. We talked at the very beginning of the year how it felt like O'Connell was already good at the things that you're supposed to be good at as a first-time head coach. So I emphasize the scripted plays, right? The drives that you have at the beginning of the game, the very first drive of the game, the two-minute drills, how you open up the second half, and then, of course, the four-minute, two-minute drills to end the game as well. Those play-calling structures, what to do, where to put the ball, how to get in your

biggest player strengths. That looked really great to me. And I said at the beginning of the year, I feel like that's a good building block for now he's going to learn the rest of things, how to be a good head coach. And we're sitting here at their nine and two. Do I think they're going to win the Super Bowl? No, I don't. But I think they're more legit and I believe in a Kirk Cousins led Vikings team more than I ever have because I feel like Kevin O'Connell is becoming a really damn good head coach right before our eyes so hats off to him doesn't have back-to-back losses yet this season has bounced back in a major way off of not just losses but crushing losses and he's been able to rally his guys and get them back the very next week. So shout out to Kevin O'Connell for that.

Great call out. Kirk's having a really, you know, really solid year there. We talk about the balance of this offense all the time. The fact they could run with multiple backs. So I'm with you. That's a really good. It's funny how I often, at least I do overlook O'Connell's effect on that team. Like, where did the Vikings make this jump?

And the fact that they have a new coach, he deserves so, so much credit for that as well. Because ultimately, roster's not drastically different. It's still good, but it's not a roster where you go, they had these three first-rounders over the last two years, and they spent $100 million in free agency and they did this. They're just getting more out of guys for the most part. All right. You want to transition into Sunday here?

Let's do it. What game you want to hit first? I want to start with the Bucks and the Browns. Oh, great. Good. Sorry. I know. I know.

I know. I know. But it's the game that sticks out to me from the 1 o'clock slate. Good Lord, what a slate 1 o'clock was. Besides Ravens-Jags, we had some stinkaroos on this 1 o'clock slate. But Bucks-Browns, here's my take, Trevor. What matters most to me is that no matter what playoffs happen, and you could hear it coming,

it's the sirens are here loud and clear as ever again, no matter what happens to this buck season, barring an incredible Super Bowl run that I cannot see coming right now, this team should be looking for a new coaching staff in the off season. They should. And I sit here as a todd bull former todd bulls observer when he was the coach of the jets i can tell you as a noted todd bulls head coach historian historian roger yes man i really like todd bullles as a person and as a head coach.

And I really like Todd Bowles as a defensive coordinator. And I really, really like Todd Bowles as a developer of defensive backs. I think it's an incredible skill of his. I do not think Todd Bowles is a good head coach in this league. And I don't know what proof, other proof we need to see it and i kind of wonder if todd bowles is back next year is tom brady coming back to this team right next year right so i i wanted to throw that take up to you because i former or not not only former Bucs reporter, but current Bucs expert, if you see it as panic alarm as much as I do in that area.

Yeah. My one thing that matters most is that Tampa's an unserious playoff team. They're probably going to make the playoffs. They're probably going to win the division. That's just the way that it is. Division's something else. They might get the Giants in the first round of the playoffs. And if they do, like we just mentioned with the Giants, they're not an over-imposing team.

Tampa might win their first game of the playoffs. But you start getting into these better teams. There's not really anything other than the fact that Tom Brady's name is on the depth chart that should that would make you believe that they're going to do anything in the playoffs and a big reason for that is their coaching staff their coaching staff lost in the game against cleveland browns 100 uh it started with them not calling barely any play action plays in the first half they continue to be one of the lowest play action rate teams in the nfl despite the success

that they have it um they seem to be very stubborn in their ways to think that, oh, well, if the run game is not working, then we can't call play action. It's just like, man, I hate that. That's not how it works. It's just how it works. There's too much data out there that supports the opposite. And that is kind of where I'm really worried the most about the Bucs coaching staff is that I feel like there are avenues in which they could kind of open themselves up to some self-scouting and maybe do things a little bit differently. And they don't. They just don't do that. They continue to do what they think is the right thing to do. But the issue is that this is a massively disappointing season.

And it's not just because of the injuries that have been on the Buccaneers. It's not just because they don't have Rob Gronkowski. It is coaching. Like the coaches have lost this team multiple games this season, outside of the injuries, outside of the changes on the roster. Coaching staff has lost multiple multiple games and so this was a this seemed like the moment where you really had to accept the Bucks are not going to be coached differently this year can a tiger change its stripes a lot of people would tell you no but I

do think that Todd Bowles at least is going to be back next year. Whether or not Byron Lefkowitz is back, I am not sure. But I cannot imagine the way in which Bruce Arians retired to give the reins to Todd Bowles. I cannot imagine a situation in which they would get rid of him after one year, even for the evidence that is mounting against them retaining this job. I think it's futile. I don't think that there's a point to it. I think that they're going to be back next year, and I think the Bucs fans just need to accept that.

I don't know if that means that Tom Brady's going to be here next year or be in Tampa next year or not, but the coaching staff is not good, and I am with you. I like Todd Bowles a lot. I think he's a great dude. I think he's a brilliant defensive coordinator. Absolutely.

I watched that Bucks-Browns game, and the main takeaway from that game is that the Bucks don't have a head coach. They don't. They have a defensive coordinator who's wearing a head coach's headset, and they have an offensive coordinator who feels like he is only getting worse as the season goes on.

And so that's just the way that I look at this coaching staff. Bruce Arians, for as much as he wasn't calling plays, for as much as he wasn't doing much other than being a CEO, they missed that a lot this year. And you can tell at the end of the game, man. End of the game man end of the game they're sitting there with 30 seconds left they call a pass play that brady completes and then they sit there with three timeouts and they let 20 seconds burn off the clock before brady throws

an absolute seed down the field to get them to the 50 yard line and it's like if you had those 20 seconds back guess what you're probably winning the game because because then you have two timeouts at that point and they ended up calling one but you'd have two timeouts at that point and you'd have multiple shots just to get in a field goal range you didn't need a touchdown the game was tied and it's like how does that game management even happen you have three timeouts what are you saving them for christmas next year you can't take them with you you can't take them to christmas you can't even take them in to re-gift them you can't even take them in overtime it's it's not like you're saving timeouts because you want to save them for overtime you can't even save them for overtime it just that's the stuff that

just seems uh mind-numbing and that's where we are at the buccaneers and there's things that are going well rashad White's playing well. The receiver group's getting more healthy. I think that there are some good things to look at out of the defense, how they're using Devin White, attacking downhill, not using him as coverage as much has really helped out. Mike Edwards plays fantastic as a safety.

Jamel Dean's having an almost all-pro type of year opposite Carlton Davis. He's playing really well. All of these things I can point to don't matter with this coaching staff. Just doesn't. And as of right now, they're just an unserious playoff team. Unfortunately. All right.

It's up to here. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. I'll give one shout to miles Garrett, who basically single-handedly almost won the game for the Browns. It felt like the guy is just, just unbelievable, but yeah. Well said on the books.

All right. Bengals Titans. Ooh. Yeah. Interesting game. Obviously one of the other one o'clocks. I know I was tough on this slate. This one was very,

very close right up until the end. What matters most to me, Trevor, is that the Bengals have now in my, survived until Jamar Chase is back. There was some rumors that Jamar Chase was going to play in this game. He ultimately did not. Jamar Chase is expected to be back going forward.

They are 7-4. They are right in the thick of things as the Ravens shockingly lose to Jacksonville on the two-point conversion attempt at the end of the game. So the Ravens are 7-4. The Bengals are 7-4. I never want to say I had to have this game,

but, man, you feel so much better about the Bengals having this game with their best player is Jamar Chase, I would think. Camer Joe Burrow, and when they're together, they form an incredible tandem. Because they play the Chiefs next week. The Browns are a tough out. I know we just kind of ripped apart the Bucs, but they have to go to Tampa. They have to go to New England.

They have to play Buffalo, and then they close the season out with Baltimore. I don't think Cincinnati could have lost this game. I really don't for the playoff implications because they are going through hell the final six games of the season. But the best thing is they have their superman coming back a wide receiver they are three and one now without jamar chase impressive four games they're three and one three of those games came on the road

they're two and one in those road games without jamar chase is a massive road win i mean make no doubt about it and it's a tough out man beat the tennessee titans right anytime you beat the tennessee titans you that locker room's juiced i feel like we've seen it over the last couple of years uh titans wanting revenge against the cincinnati bengals for what happened in the playoffs i mean like that was on the line as well bengals came out and you know i think that what matters most has to i mean it has that was on the line as well. Bengals came out and, you know, I think that what matters most has to, I mean, it has to be on the Bengals side of things. So I don't mean to not talk about Tennessee a ton,

but it just has to be about the Bengals right now because they're getting hot and they're going to get better when they have Jamar Chase back. No Joe Nixon. The offense seems right. Exactly. The offense seems to really be on. It's really on its A game right now Zach Taylor is is calling things very well he's putting guys in in positions to succeed um T Higgins is showing that he's a wide receiver

one that is simply playing as a wide receiver too because this team has Jamar Chase on it he's been able to step up but the thing that really impressed me the most with the Cincinnati Bengals and it's nothing particularly new because we have seen this with Lou Anarumo's defense with the Cincinnati Bengals over the last couple of years now they are fearless dude little old Mike Hilton was coming up and laying everything on the line to go tackle derrick henry one-on-one cambridge taylor same way outside corner maniac these guys these guys are flying at derrick henry yes fearless helping take him down that is the identity of the bengals defense that is just peak in a room right now and how well

all they're playing i just saw time and time again, Derek Henry, it just, when you look at this guy in the backfield, it strikes fear into opponent, into defensive alignment and linebackers, let alone corners. And yet this entire group is so fearless.

Tennessee Titans came into this game as the number two offense in the NFL. When it came to scoring touchdowns, once they got into the red zone, they had three red zone opportunities in this game as the number two offense in the NFL when it came to scoring touchdowns once they got into the red zone they had three red zone opportunities in this game three field goals so the Bengals held them out of the end zone every single time goes into the identity of the defense this is a unit that we all love to talk about the offense because it's got the flashy players but the reason why the Bengals are a big contender is because they've got the offensive players and the defense is playing like it has been over the last couple of weeks. If they continue to do this, they're going to give the Chiefs a run for their money next week.

They're going to give the Bills a run for their money when they come into town a month later. And they're going to be one of the more feared teams in the playoffs. Unlike last year when it felt like they were going to be the underdogs. If they can keep this going, nobody's going to be sleeping on the Bengals anymore incredible win cannot be understated how big of a win this was for the Cincinnati Bengals I think not just from a standing standpoint but an attitude standpoint as well this team is getting hot and they believe they are too man it's they the Bengals to me and maybe this is I don't mean this is a backhanded compliment, but they just remind me of the Spartan strategy of they are all powerful as a unit. The way they play.

There is no one great warrior to me with the Bengals. I look at them and just go. They are all just pieces that come together and everybody does their little teeny tiny part to formulate a very, very successful unit. Look at all these teams we talk about, like the Browns, Miles Garrett, right? You think of him. Like you always think of a star on every good defense. And with the Bengals, they really just play as a team.

And that absolutely points to the coaching staff and the discipline of the team as well. As long as... Yeah, go ahead. Because you said they're Spartans, right? Isn't that what you said said how they're all great together as long as burrow is leonidas yes and jamar chase is the dude with long hair who basically is like daring someone in xerxes army to kill him as long as those two guys are those two characters that i'll agree with that analogy uh when they they're they're just slaughtering everybody in the beginning and they're screaming no prisoners no mercy iconic film scene iconic i watch it

a couple times a year i was gonna say i watch 300 at least once a year at least how can you not it's it makes you feel alive again great movie don't care if people call it a great bad movie it's a great movie uh can i read can i read an ad first before we get on to the next game? Yes. I'm fired up. Got to talk to you guys about our friends over at DraftKings. I'm fired up for our good peeps over at DraftKings too. An official sports betting partner of the NFL.

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but also where you play, and you guys definitely will not want to miss out on this. Where are we going next? What game are we hitting next, Connor? Real quick, we'll do Texans-Dolphins. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead, Alex. I mean, I don't know, real quick,

but maybe this was a blowout. It was 30-0 at halftime. The Texans, you know, kick some field goals in the second half. This wasn't a fair fight. It just wasn't a fair fight. It was like Mike Tyson coming out of the corner against an amateur. And the good news is the Texans should be losing right now. The Texans need Bryce Young, number one overall.

It's something we talk about all the time on this show. It'll be interesting how their other potential top 10 pick ends up with Deshaun Watson coming back for the Browns. They are in control of that Browns pick. But Houston losing is a good thing. They have a lot of different question marks right now, but it all starts and ends at quarterback for me. Trevor, I believe you had a pretty strong Dolphins take, so I'll hold off on getting into the Dolphins here. No, I mean, I don't know if it's a pretty strong Dolphins take, but...

Or a Dolphins take, I should say. How many teams are you taking over Miami right now? Right? Like, Miami lines up against any team in the NFL. How many teams are you confidently taking over Miami? Even just by a little bit. Kansas City? That's probably it for me.

I would take the Chiefs. Right. I'll tell you what. When I'm dying to see them, we get it next week. I want to see them against the Niners right now. That's going to be awesome. That team knows Mike McDaniel. It's awesome.

There are a handful of teams, for sure, that I think are in the conversation. I don't mean to say that the Dolphins are in a tier. The Eagles, the Bills, the Bengals, the Niners, the Vikings. I don't mean to say that these teams have no shot against the Dolphins. But if you're asking me to pick a winner in one of these games and they're lining up next week, I'm probably picking the Dolphins over every team that's not named the Kansas city chiefs. I just am. They're playing that well. They, they,

they are executing exactly what they want to that. Well, they're scoring at such a high clip. The defense is making plays when they need to. It's not a dominant defense, but they're making plays when they need to. My only, what matters most about Miami is are they peaking too early? Now, of course you don't want to sit here.

You can't like control that. There's nothing that you can do about it. It's not like you want to go, Hey, let's lose some games. So you peak later in the season and get to the playoffs. That's not something that happens. I just wonder,

does this team, which is new to their winning window as we're going to see them in the playoffs this year, is this a team that knows how to sustain success and continue to ramp that up even further once you get to the postseason? That is a question that I am fascinated to learn the answer of over the next month and

even over the next two months once we get into the playoffs because right now miami's like i said if miami's lining up against any team that's not named kansas city i'm probably taking the dolphins just because they are that unstoppable it feels like but can they keep that going that's the biggest question mark that's the what matters most that's something i'm very fascinated to see what the answer is strong armstead with a peck strain per nfl media rap sheet tom palacero there's a noticeable difference when thrawn armstead is not in the game for sure and that yeah that not being a tear is massive for Miami. All right. Moving on to Jets Bears. Not a good game.

The Bears came out and played better than us. What are you talking about? Not a good game. What are you talking about? This is Justin Fields versus Zach Wilson, dude. Yeah, right? This is the premium quarterbacks of the 2021 NFL draft going head-to-head here. What we thought we were getting, Zach Wilson, Justin Fields, and Sunshine and Rainbows, what we got was an injured Trevor Simeon

and Mike White in a pouring, pouring rain at MetLife where the Bears actually dealt with some big injuries in this game. Both Darnell Mooney and Eddie Jackson came out of this game. Both injuries looked somewhat serious. And, you know, I give the Bears credit the way they came out. They were a tough out in the first quarter of this game, maybe even the first quarter and a half. And then they just don't have the horses right now.

I mean, Mike White shredded this defense. He shredded this defense. And what matters most to me because i'm not going to sit here on a grand stand and say you know the jets are back they're firing on all cylinders mike white's the goat like this is a game that jets should feel good about because the jets are in a significant playoff race for the first time in a very very long time but what actually matters most is that they can evaluate their two significant investments at wide receiver and Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore and that Elijah Moore is locked the F back in I mean Elijah Moore looked really good in this game he caught a touchdown

hit a big 40 plus yard catch and run Garrett Wilson was unguardable uh Garrett Wilson is just wildly impressive wildly impressive and it's no coincidence he's had his two best games with Joe Flacco and Mike White right now he caught two touchdowns from Flacco against the Browns he caught two touchdowns from uh Mike White against um the Bears today in the pouring rain it's just the Jets are a team that have made significant investments at wide receiver Elijah Moore with a top 35 pick two years ago. Garrett Wilson would have top 10 pick this year. Those guys look like stars.

And I hate to say this. They look like stars when they're playing with anybody but Zach Wilson. And now they're locked back in. My what matters most, feel free to bring me down a peg. If I need to be brought down a peg, you tell me. Zach Wilson shouldn't start for the rest of this season. At least for the rest of this season. No contest.

I mean, you look at the quotes from this team coming out of that locker room. I get it. Very telling. You know, and like it was a win. Like everybody's always pumped up after a win. But like. They won a lot though. And this was different.

Mike White's doing the post game and you got players coming around like you know just jumping all around him like they're in a like they're in the club dude like they're at like they're at a concert like like he's uh you know like he's taylor swift at this point you know we've seen the desperation for that and the stardom of that but like that's what it felt like watching mike white after the game and just the quotes that you saw from all the players that that was the biggest difference to me. It wasn't just the performance. The Bears are bad.

The Jets probably should have beat the Bears. And the Bears should want to lose right now. For what you said there, which I think is a massive point, you can now evaluate the offense with Mike White in the game. Because we have talked about this for multiple weeks. The Jets don't need a Patrick Mahomes. The Jets don't need a Josh Allen. The Jets just need non-negative quarterback play at this point.

Of course, they would take a Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen, not saying that they wouldn't. But in order to evaluate where they're going, and they're not in a winning window yet, they are there at the very beginning of it. it in fact it was not supposed to be this year really wasn't they're they're ahead of their own timeline because a lot of the rest of the guys around the rest of the roster are playing well for being first year guys or second year guys or new to the team or whatever it is they are overachieving and i people tend to take that

word as a negative. I don't mean it as a negative. They have accelerated their timeline here. But you cannot truly evaluate an accelerated timeline with a quarterback that was playing as poorly as Zach Wilson was. So even if the Jets get into a point where they're not going to make the playoffs, which at this point doesn't really seem like it's going to happen. Like unless they totally tank over the next four weeks,

the Jets are going to be quote unquote in the hunt for the playoffs, probably until the last week of the season. So at that point, I don't really see any reason to go back to Zach Wilson. And then if you don't play Zach Wilson at all for the rest of the year, all of a sudden this off season gets pretty interesting for what might happen at the quarterback position. So I just wanted to throw that all out to you. That was the thing that I observed the most big hell. Yeah.

To Mike white, obviously massive win. It was really cool to see that. And it was cool to see the team react the way that they did after the win there for him and, and just be excited for everybody. But that was my whole, what matters most of what's going on now in New York I think you're spot on I think the Jets put the team goals above an individual goal in this season and at tip of

the cap to Robert Sala who deserves to be in you know with the top dogs for coach of the year yep for passing every single test thrown at passing every single test thrown at him. Every single test thrown at him. 100%. You know, the Bears, we talk more about them on the draft shows in the middle of the week. So if you're a Bears fan disappointed that we don't talk about them a lot. No Justin Fields in this game.

It's good they lost. This is not, they don't, you know, you look at Tankathon right now, they're a team that if they steal a couple more wins, they could be picking out of the top ten. So instead, they're picking number two overall right now. So Chicago, we know they have some significant needs. We'll get to them tomorrow. We'll get to them.

We'll get to them tomorrow. Chicago fans, your time's coming. As we've always said on the show, if we don't talk about you on Monday, guess what? We're going to talk about you on Wednesday. We're going to talk about you on Wednesday. You get to party pantsless on Wednesday. Because the draft order, baby.

We get a little shakeup in the draft order this week. I'm very excited to get to Wednesday's show. Let's get to two of the games that I think are going to be a little bit quick here. First one, Broncos-Panthers. Panthers win this game. Speaking of draft order, what are we doing, Carolina? 23-10, they end up winning this game. Connor, did you have a big takeaway at all from this one?

Yeah, my takeaway is that, I mean, who's going to want the Broncos job watching what's going on with Russell Wilson? He looks awful. He looks awful. The team doesn't like him. There's no way the team likes him. 142 yards passing.

He's getting screamed at on the field do you know how much a player how much a team has to not respect you to do that in front of the cameras okay was he mad because if he's mad he looks mad i'm gonna okay hold on hold on hold on hold on if i misread that situation i No, it looks like he's mad getting in Russell Wilson's face. But the only reason why I hesitate whether or not he is, and this might be just damning on Nathaniel Hackett, if you watch the clip, Hackett's standing right there. Hackett is standing there.

I think that's who he is. And if he is that much of a head in the sand la la la la la I can't see anything I can't hear anything he is going to be done that would and that kind of ties into my what matters most is like I'm not for coaches being one and done I think you got to truly do your homework to hire the right coach and even if you make a mistake and ultimately didn't hire the right guy, hopefully you went about it in the right way to where you should at least give this person a second year to figure out whether or not they're the guy.

Every week that goes by, I doubt that more and more with the Denver Broncos. So I'm on the same page with you right there, man. The Panthers, man, I don't have much to say. I mean – Hey, good for Steve Wilks, though. Good for Steve Wilks, who's coaching like everything's on the line, and I have a lot of respect for that. I mean, he was one of the guys that felt like got screwed over

with the one-and-done thing when he was in Arizona, right? Yes. What is this? I'm not going to do the draft show before the draft show. I want this to be a big topic of the midweek show. Okay. All right. All right.

What is Carolina going to do with quarterback? They can't. The veteran roof. They go to watch the reclamation project again. I'm not going to give away the show before the show. There's your teaser. I'll just say this before we move on to the next one, because I think we have the same points about denver the one thing that matters most is this thing is going

south and it's not this thing is going south denver right now 14.2 points per game this season it's the worst by any team in the nfl since the 2000 clevelands, averaging 10.1 points per game. Shout out Field Yates for that stat. Who's the quarterback of that team? Lord knows they've had seven. One of the names that's on the jersey that never. 2000 Cleveland Browns were 3-13. Kicker Phil Dawson was their leading scorer with 59 points that year.

That's a hell of an accomplishment. Who's the quarterback? Their quarterback, I'm sure it's a Motley Crue. Tim Couch started seven games. You ready for this? Are you ready for this one? Are you ready for this? Yeah, yeah, I'm ready.

Doug Peterson started eight games. No! Yeah, dude! Yeah! Dougie P! He threw two touchdowns and eight games. No! Yeah, dude! Yeah! Dougie P! He threw two touchdowns and eight picks. That's not good. That's probably not great.

Average five yards. And just 17 years later, he'd lead the Philadelphia Eagles to their first Super Bowl. What a redemption story. He needed that. He needed that. Without that 2000 season, he would have never became the Philadelphia Eagles head coach. That's a redemption story. He needed that. He needed that. Without that 2000 season, he would have never became the Philadelphia Eagles head coach. That's a good segue.

You want to go to the next? You want to go to the Jags game? Yeah, this was a good game. Good segue here. Jags taking down the Baltimore Ravens by a score of 28 to 27. Thanks to a bring youryour-own-guts two-point conversion attempt from the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Such a Doug move. What did you think of this one? What mattered most? Trevor Lawrence coming up clutch in the fourth quarter. What else do you need to say? Trevor Lawrence is going to be in this position a lot of times, in my opinion, over the next 10 years. And this is what he has to do to remain that he has the opportunity to be put in this position for the next 10 years. I thought Trevor Lawrence was OK.

The first three quarters of this game. OK, not a lot cooking for the Jags. Some some plays here, a couple throws there. To be fair, the Ravens weren't exactly lighting the world on fire. Trevor Lawrence, he did everything perfectly, it felt like, in the fourth quarter of this game. And I loved his fire. I loved his passion.

The throw on the two-point conversion was right on time. And you know what? Shout out to Doug Peterson for dialing it up. He goes, you're looking left the whole way. It's going to be there. Get rid of the ball. And I think part of Trevor's problems, and this happened in a fumble he had in this game,

is just constantly holding the ball or maybe the lack of urgency at times with pressure. And I just thought that started to evaporate in the fourth quarter in a really, really positive way. So just Trevor Lawrence playing like this is what mattered most out of this entire game. Obviously, this is a giant duh but trevor wasn't perfect in this game even even on the good throws i felt like there was still that just millisecond of hesitancy from him like there are a couple of throws that he makes sometimes he he like he doesn't fully step into it the way that

he could um he's still making things a little bit more difficult than they need to but connor the ball went exactly where it needed to it felt like every time his ball placement showed off how talented of a thrower this guy is because even with the feet not exactly where they need to be even with him not fully stepping into a throw even with him being a little bit rushed and being off platform a little bit that ball was getting where it needed to go with zip in between zone coverage over the guy's shoulders everything man it was just this was such a wonderful display of arm talent from Trevor Lawrence this was the best game of his career without a doubt and And that fourth quarter, especially that dude was so confident today.

And I loved seeing that. He said, after the game, he's like, I mean, I've always been this guy. I'm not a new guy. I'm not sitting here and saying like, Oh, like I've changed man or something. He's like, look, this is who I've always been. It's just really starting to click. I think the ball placement is really getting there for him, and I really hope this is the catalyst for what we see with Trevor Lawrence moving forward.

I'll flip over to the Ravens because they are a playoff team, right, and I do want to touch on them a little bit. Ravens defense is what they boast. I think that that's going to be what allows them to make some noise this season. Obviously, Lamar Jackson, unbelievably talented, but similarly to the light in which we talked about the New York Giants without Rashad Bateman, they just don't have a one in the passing game. They've got Mark Andrews, and I like Mark Andrews a lot, but they need a go-to receiver. I know they'd love for it to be Devin Duvernay, but it's just, it's not going to

be Devin Duvernay. A lot of fans are clamoring for him because he had some touchdowns early in the season, but that was with Duvernay as the wide receiver three option. You can't bring that guy into the fold and say, okay, you're the one now, have that same similar success, because I feel like they've tried a little bit. He just, for as much as Duvernay is a good athlete, he is a good linear athlete. He's a good vertical athlete. He's not this guy who can separate, who really has a ton of short area quickness, who can flip the hips the way that you would want him to.

His route tree, to me, and the success with it and the separation is limited. So you can't just plug that guy into a wide receiver one role and think that he's going to have the same rewards. I think Demarcus Robinson, you say, all right, we can get a good game from him every now and then. But again, he's not a guy that you lean on full time. Deshaun Jackson getting that long bomb pass is great to see because they do need that speed element there.

But ultimately for the Ravens, I think they are Lamar Jackson and a good defense. But I don't know if they have the full offense around them to really be a team that can keep up on the scoreboard with some of the best. So I just wanted to say that about the Ravens. I do have my concerns with them moving forward against some of the better teams in the NFL.

Yeah, it's getting a little tiring year after year after kind of saying this about Baltimore. Why isn't this being addressed? I know theeman yeah it hasn't worked out the way that right so i guess that's it um next game falcons commanders i didn't want to skip that from the one o'clocks oh how could you skip it brother i only have one takeaway from this and and that's i really think brian robinson could be one of the better power backs in the NFL. Watching him watching them make a concerted effort to get him going downhill in this game. He finishes the game with 18 carries for 105 yards. Seven of those 18 carries went for a first down. He had four missed tackles forced.

He was averaging about three yards after contact per carry. That's pretty impressive to me. Three explosive runs. And of course, the highlight real play was the catch down the sideline where he ran over two defenders to get into the end zone. So Brian Robinson, what a story, man. He was a really good college player. I didn't really understand why people didn't care about him

as much as we usually do care about Alabama running backs. He comes back from being shot. And I mean, comes back from being shot way earlier than anyone expected and he just he looked tremendous today and he's somebody that they can really lean on i think while they're playing a backup quarterback in the for the rest of the season i don't have a lot to say on this game because it was exactly what you would think this game was going to be it was two teams neither of them were going to score more than 25 points. Final score ends up being 19-13.

Falcons' run game wasn't enough in this game, and that's why they ultimately didn't put enough points on the board. Tyler Algier had 11 carries, 54 yards. Okay, good yards per carry average. Cordero Patterson, 11 carries, 52 yards. Again, good yards per carry average. Both of those guys over the four and a half milestone that you like to see Mariota as well six carries 49 yards like the run game was

there for them but they just didn't score enough points they just they don't have the offensive score enough points the defense isn't isn't good enough to really stop teams the way they need to and that's just that's the Atlanta Falcons that is the Atlanta Falcons they're going to be the same team every single week nothing's going to change about them this year. It's going to have to be an off-season thing. On the flip side of things, Manders is somehow 7-5, and it's incredible to see. Dude.

You know what doesn't make any sense? Every Taylor Heineke game is exactly the same. His stat line is exactly the same every single week. He's going to get around 60% completion percentage. He's going to throw for anywhere between 140 and 190 yards. And he's going to throw probably two touchdowns and one interception. And that's every single Taylor Heineke game is exactly the same. And yet here they are on what?

What did they want? Six out of the last seven? Something stupid? Could have very well been seven in a row. Incredible job by Ron Rivera to turn that team around. I do think their luck is going to run out at some point. I'm sorry, Commanders

fans, but it is. Eventually, the Heineken play style is going to catch up to you. But ride the wave while you have it. Enjoy the win and enjoy being right there for a playoff spot because that's where we are with them. Incredible.

Because it's so true. We'll knock out the four o'clocks here. Coming off a long slate of one o'clocks. We had four games starting with Chargers Cardinals. The Chargers win at the end of the game, going for two points. Not shocking knowing this team. I can't figure this team out for the life of me game, going for two points. Not shocking, knowing this team.

I can't figure this team out for the life of me, Trevor. Arizona, I really know. I just don't think they're very good. It was kind of perplexing that they were winning this game right down to the wire. Obviously, Herbert with a pretty massive day, 35-47. He throws for three touchdowns. Are the Chargers just really hurt? Because it feels like their defense is constantly letting them down.

Constantly letting them down. And I know that maybe I just answered my own question. They are so banged up that they have a defense letting them down. And they've been pretty banged up at wide receiver the entire year on offense. But they find a way to kind of scratch out this win. I don't personally have a big takeaway from this game because it was one that I actually thought they'd win pretty decisively, and it came down literally to a two-point conversion

to win it. I have a big takeaway from this game. You ready? Cardinals should fire Cliff Kingsbury tomorrow. Well, yes. I mean... The Cardinals should fire Cliff kingsbury tomorrow well yes i mean the cardinals should fire cliff kingsbury tomorrow and i've never i have yet to be that bullish on it we've talked on this show that

this should probably be the last year with cliff kingsbury and probably the last year of general manager steve kime and the regime there it just feels like it's time to move on they should fire kingsbury tomorrow connor cardinals led this game by a touchdown in the fourth quarter cardinals had three drives in which they could have put this game out of reach especially looking at it from a revisionist standpoint. Sure. In those three drives, they went three and out all three times. And the time that they took off the clock, minute 45, minute 27, 28 seconds. I mean, that's insane. If the offense is going to be like this, why is Cliff the head coach? That to me is why I am changing my stance completely to,

you should fire Cliff Kingsbury tomorrow. Because he is here, he is in Arizona to be an offensive guru. Don't tell me anything else. That's why you hired him 100 they had three drives to get any points at all and win this football game and they went three and out three and out three and out i'm done you're you're it's spot i didn't even have a cardinals tape because i i feel like i just have nothing left to say about them but i'm glad you had the words i went into this game just caring about the chargers and it's the cardinals should not be at this point of their season but

you just hit the nail on the head that they don't know how to close out games right they don't know how to close out games this is how their season's gone they got blown out by the chiefs now their offense isn't any good they don't even know how to play offense cliff. This is how their season's gone. They got blown out by the Chiefs. No, their offense isn't any good. They don't even know how to play offense. Cliff Kingsbury's their head coach. Well, the offense has no rhythm, right? Yeah. That's always the issue with... And some people blame Kyler, some people blame

Cliff. I think it's just a total disaster all around. But Kyler is going to be here. And you can't say that about Cliff. Extensions are not. Extensions are not. They can't be back. They to be here. And you can't say that about Cliff. Extensions are not. Extensions are not. They can't be back. They cannot be back.

Which positions us to a fascinating conversation. Sorry, did you have more on that game? No, no, no, no, no. What was the fascinating conversation? Raiders-Seahawks. Mm-hmm. Tough loss for Seattle. Raiders win, baby!

Raiders win! The Raiders win the Raiders win and the reason I said fascinating conversation about they can't be back I'm pretty sold that Josh McDaniels will be back I didn't think they needed this win for that to happen I was always convinced they were going to give McDaniels and the regime of his choice in the front office a two two years, especially to not pay a million different guys. The most fascinating thing to me in this game, Trevor, is Josh Jacobs is out of nowhere, maybe the best running back in the NFL, or at least the most productive, I would say. And they didn't pick up his fifth year option. Dude, he was playing in the Hall of Fame game.

He was in the Hall of Fame game. Or whatever. Was it the Hall of Fame game? No, no, no. Yes Dude, he was playing in the Hall of Fame game. He was in the Hall of Fame game. Or whatever. Was it the Hall of Fame game? No, no, no. Yes. Yes, he was in the Hall of Fame game, like in the thick of it, with guys that are probably nowhere near an NFL roster right now. Josh Jacobs, 33.

Is he leading the NFL in rushing now? By a healthy margin. Healthy margin. That's amazing. What are they going to do? What are they going to do? What are they going to do? Build the offense around Josh Jacobs. I don't know.

You have to pay him. Oh, yeah, right. He's a free agent. He's a free agent. Oh, it's unreal. They have a lot of cap space, all right? All right. 2022 cap space come on they gotta have a lot of come on come on they gotta have yay they got 20 projected 27 million in cap space all 27 fine give josh jacobs 13 and you still have

a shit defense they They're screwed. The Raiders are very puzzling. I can't wait for that fixing episode when we get there. And great win for the Raiders, not to kind of crap in your cereal there because you got an awesome win. Is it a great win, though? Yeah, you're right.

Tomorrow's episode is going to be awesome. Tomorrow's episode is loaded. Yeah. Or Wednesday. Yeah, I keep saying tomorrow. I. Or Wednesday. So let's... Yeah, I keep saying tomorrow. I don't know. I do it all the time.

All the time. Vegas moves down to the ninth overall pick. Oh, don't spoil the episode. Just wanted to say where they're at. Seattle. People can look it up. You have a Seattle take. Seattle take is...

I think the defense is really going to get in the way from this team making a magical run at the end. Yeah. I do. Wander Diggs tried to be a superhero, but that was it. The defense is just not quite good enough to allow Seattle to be like, you know, what the Bengals were as an underdog team or like what we've seen when the New York Giants went on their run as a wildcard team many years ago, right?

I just, they don't have the horses on defense. The Seahawks are clearly overperforming like we talked about with the Jets, but I think even more so than the Jets, right? People thought the Jets were going to win, you know, six games this year. Pretty sure a lot of people thought that the Seahawks were going to win three games this year. So they thought that they were going to win, you know, six games this year. Pretty sure a lot of people thought that the Seahawks were going to win three games this year. So they thought that they were going to be absolutely terrible.

They are way overachieving. But I think as the year is going on here, we are realizing, and we are maybe not realizing, it's just coming to the forefront that there's not enough talent on this defense yet. They're too young. They're too inexperienced. They lack the juice there.

And I think that's going to get in the way of a playoff run, even if the offense maybe wins them an opening round playoff appearance if they get in i just don't think that this team is going to be a major upset team once they start playing the big time contenders that's just my thought but on the flip side it's it's you know we looked at it like they need to pick number one or two so they get a quarterback. And in the flip side of this year of them playing themselves out of that pick, they found one in Geno Smith, who made one of the best throws I saw today to lock it. And they have the number four overall pick with the Denver Broncos right now.

But I'm not going to spoil the Wednesday episode. Yeah, things are still really, really good for Seattle. This was just, of course, you know, a bit of a soul-crushing loss because of who you were playing. Rams Chiefs. Oh, man, did the Rams take it on the chin. Do you get it? Do you get it, Connor?

Do you get the joke? It's a good one. Because they showed Sean McVay taking one to the chin like 80,000 times on the broadcast. He didn't look so good after that here all right let me ask you this because there's nothing to say about this game there's nothing to say about this game no no there's not but i'll tell you my one take of the chiefs is i think the chiefs are going to run the table the rest of the season not counting playoffs regular season they go to cincinnati really tough game they get through that, they got the Broncos.

They got the Texans. They got the Seahawks. They play the Seahawks in Kansas City. They play the Broncos again. And they play the Raiders. Dub. Goddamn. They're going to start resting their starters three weeks before the playoffs.

I mean, guys are going to be not playing football after Christmas for two weeks on this team. Yikes. Anyways. My Rams take is that his team might look a lot different next year. I don't want to. So my question for you. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead.

Is Sean McVay going to the booth after this year? Yeah, I think there's a big reason. There's a big reason to believe that. Obviously, he's not going to get, you know, uppercutt he if he goes to the booth although maybe he does depending on who is uh who is who's play-by-play guy is um no i think that we've talked about this podcast before and it's been reported on twitter from a couple of people that mcveigh seems to be pretty tied to stafford and if stafford's injury is serious enough to where he's he's gonna miss the rest of the season you know he's already suffered the concussions, right?

He's had those things in his history as well. Is it time for Stafford to walk away? He got the ring, right? I mean, like, that was the whole point of it. And Stafford's been beat up a ton throughout his career. We know that for sure. He doesn't have anything left to prove, if you will. He's already proven that he can play through toughness.

He's been a guy who's played on losing teams and tried to elevate them. He played with Calvin Johnson, had some unbelievable seasons. He got to play with Sean McVay and Sean McVay's offense, and it resulted in a Super Bowl ring. If your body is breaking down on you, dude, get out. Get out. Like, get out. Go right off into the sunset with your wife and your family and just, like, be happy.

You're a millionaire. You're a Super Bowl champion. You've accomplished so many things. And so I think that for that reason, there's a legitimate – if Stafford misses the rest of the year, if the injury is bad where Stafford misses the rest of the year, I think there's a realistic shot that he retires. If he retires, I think there's a very realistic shot

that Sean McVay does as well because they clearly don't have another quarterback option there for them to get another one that would vault them into the Super Bowl conversation. They would have to be paying draft picks which they do not really have and you know aaron donald has talked about retiring too after he got his ring and rams just might look a lot different next year is this they just want to be a lot different yeah they don't need a renovation they need the house bulldozed i mean they they will if these dudes start to retire yeah you i mean the whole roster is basically going to get unrecognizable i mean at that point you you're maybe trading off ramsey

you know you're maybe trading off these other guys that have value i don't know if they're going to trade cooper cup or anything like that but like it just depends what direction they're going to go i'm just spitballing now but la is in a weird spot thank god they didn't trade for my birds i mean the trade that never was it's just it's i think it's my favorite story of the nfl season just i really do i really think the rams on the house the the Rams offering the Madden franchise deal of well I'm never going to play until that season so I'll just offer all the picks ahead now

in real life oh my god why did it happen next time a coach tells me it's not Madden I'm going to be like the hell it is idiot New Orleans Saints San Francisco 49ers a coach tells me it's not Madden, I'm going to be like, the hell it is. The hell it isn't. Idiot. Alright, so New Orleans Saints, San Francisco 49ers,

this is the last game that we're talking about here. 49ers shut out the Saints for the first time since, what was it, like 2001 or so? Like 2004? Had to be 20 years. It was pre Drew Brees. That's all I know. Scott Hansen said it on NFL Reds and I was like, god damn. What a legend. Yeah, truly.

Alright, so 49ers win this. Yeah, truly. All right. So 49ers win this game 13 to nothing. Saints had some opportunities. I mean, they shot themselves in the foot a ton. I think the big takeaway from this game is that clearly the Saints cannot move the ball on offense if they don't rush the football, right? If they're running the football well, then

you can compliment that with a passing game. But at this point, that's what I think Andy Dalton is. I think it's just a complimentary piece of what they have in their offense. Andy Dalton's definitely not a takeover kind of guy. I said it last week. I'd love for them to start Jameis Winston because you know that Andy Dalton's not going to be on the team next year. Maybe Jameis Winston is, and probably not, right?

It just seems like that's where they're going anyways. But New Orleans is sinking ship. It's not going well for them and then 49ers are just that defense man that defense alone feels like it could get them to an nfc championship game yep so that i'm that my my what matters most is obviously that the 49ers defense is nfc championship caliber and we saw that again this week. It really is. I'll touch on the offense real quick for the Niners. I just like how they really started to become a team

that could spread around the ball, whether it's Ayuk, Jennings, Debo, who was banged up in this game and was dealing with an injury all week. He's dealing with a hamstring all year. Kittle, McCaffrey, Elijah Mitchell, Jordan Mason. They just, they could spread the ball around and they are a team that they know how to play a lot of different styles of ball and

I think that's why I would pick them to come out on top of the NFC if I was picking today with the Saints it is unfathomable that at four and eight they are still in this division race unfathomable at four and eight that they are in this division race if they're not going to move to jamis next week i don't know when they will they're not getting anything from dalton the two fumbles from camaro were daggers and you said you don't know if jamis is going to be there next year do you know he has 11.2 million dollars in dead money if they cut him with three void years. Three void years. Look, at least the Saints have a lot of cap space.

Well, it's not real. Well, at least the Saints have a lot of cap space next year. What are they, like negative 70 million? They're going to be pulling every cushion off the couch for a change. Every cushion. All right, so before we get out of here, Chris just tweeted at us chris burnham said it's a pity that tampa bay trey and uh connor j rogers are probably doing

the pod right now because this game is very drunk in very good ways green bay versus philly i just checked the score it's 20 to 20 20 to 20 there is trying to keep up with it loosely when we were doing the pod but it's just very hard to focus. There's seven minutes left. I think Aaron Jones just did something bananas because. Did he? I got, yeah. Hurts has 121 rushing yards? Already?

What the heck is going on? We've got 740 left in the second. All right. Okay. Well, maybe if it's that much of a thriller, we will touch on it if we talk about those teams on Wednesday.

Almost said tomorrow. I have to genuinely think about it. I can't wait for the draft show this weekend. I thought it was a good What Matters Most. There's a lot of good games. You don't want to give away the goods. You know what I thought about? I thought about this this weekend. College football isn't over. Obviously, we have a lot of cool like unique matchups that are coming up with the bowl games and obviously like the championship games too

but regular season's done done like we get to i'm i'm diving into film this week i'm getting two guys like yes i don't want to say final evals because a lot of them are gonna watch their whole season right you can watch their whole season now. It's time, baby. It's the best. Going back over position by position. The draft show has a heartbeat again. We're getting back to the beauty of it.

It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to start on Wednesday, though. We're going to talk about the updated draft order. We're going to give you some guys that played really well this weekend. And then, I don't know, maybe we'll devise a little game plan switch up the podcast schedule a little bit like i said like maybe get back into some of the some of the film breakdowns and maybe get to some revisions of position rankings like what we had over the summer versus what we could have in some again i don't i don't want to say final evals but but like end of regular season. We'll look at our big board eventually, this stock exchange big board.

Give you a little stock up, stock down. Get back to what the show is all about. And what the show will look like Mondays. Because we, season's going to end for a lot of teams in a month. So we have the extra week this year. But we have time for that. But it'll be, I mean, last year i know we covered when the pod was born we covered the playoffs but we also covered a lot of mock draft monday related things so

the pod just evolves as great way to great way to put it we're not changing we're evolving it's like a charmander to a charizard this pod yeah it's like it's like when we went from feeble young men to 6'5", 240 pounds. 3% body fat. 3% body fat. Max bench, 650. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done.

All right, everybody. Appreciate you guys listening to the show. As Connor said, appropriately, we won't be back tomorrow, but we will be back on Wednesday. Like I said, we're going to update the draft order. We're going to talk about some team needs for a lot of these teams. And man, the draft order shook up in a big way this week. So we'll preview, give a little mini mock draft for the top five, top 10.

Talk about what your teams could be looking at. Go over some of the top 20 as well, just as the order as it stands today. So we'll get back into the roots of what this draft show is all about. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching the NFL Stock Exchange. See you guys on Wednesday. Thank you.