NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 122. Updated 2023 Draft Order (Post Week 14) + Fixing the Arizona Cardinals

Episode Date: December 14, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you the updated first round draft order of the 2023 NFL Draft, and give you another update on some new underclassmen names that are officially in the draft pool

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast in this episode we are updating the 2023 NFL draft order post week 14 in the NFL we're going 1 through 31 shout out the Miami Dolphins who uh forfeit their selection so we don't have 32 picks but we're telling you what order each team is picking right now

with four weeks to go in the season. We're telling you how likely it might be that they might be picking around that area and some draft strategies if they are. We're talking about how Seattle might hold the keys to the draft if the draft order ends like this. And plus, what are the Arizona Cardinals going to do now that Kyler Murray is hurt? Plus, we're looking at some updated underclassmen who declared for the 2023 NFL Draft

and giving our early thoughts of that and how they impact the class so much more. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Middle of the week. It is Wednesday, which means it's time to update the 2023 NFL Draft. We'll be going one through 31, not 32. Shout out the Miami Dolphins, who don't have a pick, forfeited a pick. So now we only have 31 selections. We're going to be going up and down the list, telling you who is slotted where

with only four weeks left to go in the regular season connor it's getting a crunch time my guy it is getting a crunch time in the order i'm excited because a lot of this stuff it's not just total imagination anymore it's not just like oh what if this pig team were to pick in the top 10 now it's more like hey you should probably plan on this team picking in the top 10 so the more solidifiedified the order it gets, the more clear the picture we get for where some of these prospects are going to land. But I'm excited to talk about it, buddy. Me too.

This is really the time of year where you can start to think, you could dream big. Some of the blue chip players from the class, you could start nailing down a couple of landing spots here, a couple of landing spots there, and you start to look at scenarios, right? This is a situation where you know russell wilson

actually got hurt this week i don't know how long he's going to be out but that denver pick that is controlled by seattle is the number two pick in the draft while we sit here today so those things matter so much you look at some schedules i know you and i specifically are going to dive pretty deep on arizona today because arizona is one of the most fascinating off season teams in the entire NFL as well. So, and we say this every week, but we, I mean, the team picking 14th has five wins. The team picking fourth has four wins. So the scramble that could happen down the stretch here in December is crazy.

It's huge. It's definitely, December is crazy. It's huge. It's definitely, it is huge. It's going to be like a mini fixture team. I feel like when we get to the Cardinals, because that's something that we really wanted to touch on. Obviously it really sucks to report this, but Kyla Murray towards ACL on Monday night, this past Monday. And that goes into what's going to happen with the Cardinals moving forward.

I mean, we were already kind of sketchy about the decision makers there and the current structure and regime that they had, whether it was time to make some changes. I think that we figured it was, but I unfortunately believe that Kyler Murray's injury is going to accelerate some of those things. So we'll dig into that. We're also going to throw a handful more prospects you guys' way that have officially declared for the 2023 nfl

draft so we'll give you some uh underclassmen that have put their name in the hat if you will we'll discuss kind of what we think about them what we thought during summer scouting and um what it means for them to be in the draft class i think as a whole but let's start with this draft order uh i'll read off the top 10 and then we can just kind of like's talk, I guess, a little bit about the teams that are in the top five before we jump into the Arizona Cardinals. But Houston Texans put up one hell of a fight against the Dallas Cowboys this past weekend, but ultimately they fell short. One 11 and one is their record, so they still hold the number one overall pick.

It looks like they're going to be picking up the top when it's all said and done. Seattle Seahawks, you mentioned it, currently picking number two overall. They've got a playoff spot, and they are number one overall pick. It looks like they're going to be picking up the top when it's all said and done. Seattle Seahawks, you mentioned it. Currently picking number two overall. They've got a playoff spot, and they are number two overall because of that trade for Russell Wilson. That's the Denver Broncos' original pick. Chicago Bears still sitting there in the top three at number three overall. Detroit Lions, for as much success as they're having,

maybe the hottest team in the NFC, they still have a top five pick. They've got the Rams pick there. Last little portion of the Jared Goff trade at number four overall. team in the NFC. They still have a top five pick. They've got the Rams pick their last low portion of the Jared Goff trade at number four overall. Philadelphia Eagles, speaking of teams that are on a roll with a top five pick, best record in the NFL, and yet here they are sitting with New Orleans spot at number five. Arizona, we're going to dive into. They're picking at number six. Indianapolis, Connor, finally making their way up or down the draft board, however you

want to say it, at number seven overall las vegas is there at number eight caroline at number nine and then fellow nfc south team the atlanta falcons at number 10 where do you want to start here with this uh with this top 10 man i think we do a lot of eagles and lions every week even bears let's have the conversation if Seattle picked it too, right? Because I don't think we have, I don't think we've done this since maybe we did a mock draft. I think the only mock, one of the only mock drafts, or maybe the only mock draft we did before the season started.

And a lot of our conversations were focused around the idea of Seattle needing a franchise quarterback. And nobody saw this kind of significant progress from Geno Smith this year. And I feel pretty comfortable thinking that Seattle is going to do everything they can to keep Geno there for a long time. I don't know what that contract will look like. Will it be a Ryan Tannehill level contract? Will it be smaller? We don't know. But it's's enough for me trevor to think that if they had the number two overall pick in the draft it would not be on a quarterback because they feel pretty good about the guy they have under center and then it raises the question of what do they

look to do they made significant investments in the offensive line in last year's draft it worked out really well to pair that they They have Kenneth Walker running behind them. Who's been banged up this year, but really good when healthy. I look at the Seattle team and think them picking number two overall is a dream scenario in this draft because what they need is help up front in the form of a Will Anderson, Jalen Carter. I think I would campaign harder for Will Anderson.

They've missed on a couple edge rushers in previous years, but they've never had the opportunity to draft one with the skill set of will anderson but they did have they do have boy mafe right and sure mafe let me not that that's the reason why you didn't no no you don't pick will anderson but mafe i'm looking up his mock draftable right now so he's 6'3 260 260. Actually bigger than I thought. I didn't think he was going to be 260. Was he lighter at Minnesota? He had to have been lighter at Minnesota.

Where am I getting this from? Let me see. I'm talking out loud here on my own podcast. He's just so twitchy at that size that he never looks 260 plus. I know. Maybe I just thought he was leaner. Okay, Minnesota does not have the height and weight on the bio. What are we doing?

I've noticed that with a couple schools this draft season. I know you're going to lie to me anyways, but come on. Give me something here. So, all right, I thought that Mafe was a little bit lighter, so I was saying to myself, like, oh, well, are they going to want two light edge guys? Maybe that would steer them away from it. But here we go.

Let me throw out a scenario to you connor okay will anderson would be a phenomenal pick i think for the seattle seahawks jillian carter george defensive lineman also would be a phenomenal pick for the seattle seahawks trade back for number two now i wonder what the quarterback market's going to end up being, how strong of a prospect C.J. Stroud is, how strong of a prospect Will Levis is. I don't think we're going to get to this point, but how strong of a prospect Anthony Richardson would be. I'm just spitting balling.

If the quarterback market is strong enough at number two overall, trading back could look very tempting for Seattle. And my question to you is, this how much they nailed last draft from the very top to what it feels like the very bottom. Give them faith to say, okay, we'd be passing on Willie Anderson or Jalen Carter, but we have faith in our scouting staff,

in the guys that we like, in the board that we set up to think that we could drop back from, say, two to eight, get an extra first round pick next year or whatever it's going to be. Still love the player we're going to get at number eight and love the rest of the draft that we're going to have as well, because I believe they have two first two second round picks, too. So does last year's draft success go into the temptation of trading down from number two overall if you're Seattle? What do you think? I say no. And the reason I say no is because I think this defense needs some stars. And I think you get to the point of the draft where quickly on the defensive side of the ball that you run out of the territory where you're not getting blue chippers anymore. And I agree with you, Trevor. They have found really nice players, Tariq Woolen included. I don't know if Tariq Woolen is going to be a star. He's definitely been one of the better rookies in this class, and he looks like he can absolutely become one

on a down-by-down basis. For me me I just would not pass up one of Anderson or Carter for this front and I get it you make a compelling case they can get a ton of picks but they've had a lot of picks and we'll see what they do in free agency as well and how that impacts that but I just look at this front once again, that they're interesting, right? You brought up a boy, a mafia, Daryl Taylor,

who has quite a few strip sacks this year. They have Puna Ford in the middle. It was, you know, a big space eating kind of guy. I think they need the dude. I think they need a wrecker. And I think that comes in the form of one of those two guys,

depending on how they view the development of their young edges um or just how they grade the players as a whole between carter and anderson but for seattle for me i think they're actually at the point of the roster where they just need that household name on defense and it'd be staring them right in the face and i think that that's totally fair i i think i'd be more tempted than it sounds like you are to to take the chance on it especially if it's a quarterback that somebody is trading up for right if they're moving down from number two can get crazy yeah we talked about this with chicago i think a couple of weeks ago how they could potentially control the draft if you look at the draft order let's say the draft were this weekend seattle's sitting there picking at number

two overall you've got indianapolis at potentially Vegas at eight Carolina sitting there at nine maybe Atlanta at 10 but like those are three potentially four teams that are sitting there that would move up for a quarterback you'd think three teams two teams for sure need one in the Indianapolis Colts and the Carolina Panthers. Those are picked seven and nine. If you're Seattle, you could be sitting here, move down to seven, move down to nine. There's a good chance that you could get one of Brian Brzee, Miles Murphy, Jared Verse, right? Like those guys that you would really want anyways.

Now, are they as good as a Will Anderson or a Jalen Carter? No. I think there's a reason why those two guys are going to be picked well ahead of those players. But what's the gap? Are you okay with that? If your scouts sign off on a lot of these guys, you can sit here, trade back,

and especially if it's for a quarterback, get yourself extra draft capital next year. You're already seeing the dividends pay off of making a deal to get an extra first round pick. And what that could potentially be could still be a strong first round pick, even with these two teams going up to get an extra first round pick and what that could potentially be could still be a strong first round pick, even with these two teams going up to get a rookie, because it's probably not going to be Bryce Young that they're going up to

get it. Number two. So all of these things I think would be floating in my head of, of what you could potentially do in the draft. And when I think about Seattle, when I think about how they, they nailed it with so many prospects last year, having faith in that staff to get those guys back in

and continuing to stockpile picks, man. The draft, first and foremost, is about getting good football players on your football team. The higher you pick, the better chance you have at that. But it is still a bit of a crapshoot, and something that I love about the draft is it's also a game. It's a chess game. It's a long game as much as it is a short-term game too.

So you never want to outthink yourself. You don't want to play yourself, if you will. But if I'm Seattle and they're picking number two and it's all said and done, I'd be real tempted, given how much success they had last year in the draft, to move down and get some extra draft capital never hurts especially answering the phone and seeing teams bid against each other and see how much you could squeeze out of it to move a certain amount of spots I just I look at Pete Carroll he's going to be 72 years old next year coaching in the NFL

I think I would just want that superstar and you just go with your evaluations right if you think Jalen Carter or Will Anderson are going to be all pro players some of the best players in their position i think you sit there and take them if you think they're above average players and the next guy is closer to them than you expected then you think about moving back and just stop piling an entire roster so it's it's tricky right it's the ebbs and flow of the draft and what you need and volume versus quantity versus quality, of course, and how that ultimately shakes out. So I think ultimately my takeaway is, and I've said this on the Sunday night show,

when I said Seattle's really not going to go anywhere with this defense, it's hard not to love how Seattle has positioned themselves when things looked kind of grim after the Russell Wilson trade and Jamal Adams trade that wasn't really the best look for their GM in terms of what they gave up and the money they gave him and his fact he got hurt. So I think Seattle's in a really, really unique position for success going forward.

How long is Jamal still in her contract? I think three more years. Oh, yeah. Okay. That was a monster. That was a monster. Oh, yeah. Okay, so they got him for a while. That was a monster, that team. Oh, man. This contract kind of sucks. Yeah.

It's not really movable. He's for sure on the team next year because you can't get any money if you cut him. Basically, next two. Well, you could save $9 million if you cut him in 2024. Yeah, but you're eating 14 million dead money plus on jamal adams well either that or you're spending 23 mil on the cap for a safety oh man that's well we'll see what happens he needs a big he needs a big year next year to

justify that cap it i'm just thinking about it because you know hopefully jamal adams can come back and play really well and if you get jamal adams coming back playing really well that's all of a sudden a really nice secondary piece right you got kobe on one side you got tariq on the other you get jamal adams in the in the secondary or sorry at the safety level then like if you put yourself if you put a will anderson on one side boy mafe on the other like now we're talking like that's a that could be a quick turnaround for that defense and this team could even be more complete next year so anyways just wanted to have that conversation about seattle feels like the number two pick uh is going to be fun no matter no matter who has it you want to travel down to number six then you want to talk about the arizona cardinals arizona cardinals

sitting here at four and nine after dropping one at home to the new england patriots on monday night football but much more damaging than the singular loss was losing Kyler Murray to an injury like a torn ACL. Basically means he's not going to be available for probably the first month of next season, best case scenario. We're probably talking about Kyler Murray not even being able to suit up for you until after week four or five. This is just an injury that we've seen guys come back really fast from, but that's stuff that I don't know if you could bet on.

Right. And so much of what Kyler brings to the table for Arizona comes with that athletic ability. And that's something that you cannot rush that back. And we've, you know, we've heard from people who have torn their ACLs before, who would even tell you like,

look, even the first whole year back yeah i didn't get re-injured i didn't re-injure it but that was almost like a confidence building year so you might be i don't want to play gloom and doom here but you got to play realistic with it like you might be two years away from kyler murray even getting back on the field the way that you would want him to as a franchise caliber player so if that's the case with the scenario being what it is now connor they have the number six overall pick it's been a disappointing year four nine is their record what is your outlook for the cardinals now what conversation are we having with the cardinals it's brutal it's one of the

toughest places to be this is a team that has taken on a ton of money in the form of older players to try to keep going in. They have an NFL coach that it feels inevitable that he's not going to be there very long, despite being extended recently. And I want to be fair here. This is not I see everybody piling on Cliff Kingsbury. This is a collective effort from Arizona. Everything is wrong there right now. And you're the head coach. A lot of it starts with you.

They're such a fascinating team, Trevor, because realistically they won't have their star quarterback on the field next year. Maybe until, God, I think the positive outlook is November, I want to say, honestly. We'll see if Kyler Murray does the prehab, right? The rehab before surgery, which can accelerate the recovery after. I know that's become a popular move in NFL circles

and how that will affect his recovery. Kyler Murray is under contract pretty confidently until 2027 when you look at the dead money. The dead money is above $20 million. Just real quick we've done this before 96.5 next year 81.5 the year after that 33.2 20.2 in 2026 and 7.2 in 2027 so kyler murray is there to stay i cannot with confidence say that about cliff kingsbury or steve kine i shouldn't yeah but the problem we're going to

run into here we know kime's relationship with the bidwell family he's been the gm of the team since 2013 there's obviously some long-term relationship aspects here kime after um he you know he played in college and then he had a cup of coffee with the Dolphins and a cup of coffee in the CFL. He became a regional scout with the Cardinals in 1999. And it's kind of the scouting American dream story. I mean, you're talking about an area scout in 1999, gets promoted to director of college scouting in 2006. So that's almost a decade of being an area scout and then getting promoted to director. Then gets promoted to director of player personnel in 2008, VP of player personnel, which is usually the step before GM in 2012.

Takes over as GM in 2013. He's had the job ever since. So there's obviously some longstanding relationships with owners here that has played into Kyme being here this long, while the team has not effectively built a roster that can be a sustainable winner. And the other area here, Trevor, is Keim is now under contract 2027. Is this going to be an area

that Keim gets another shot to build this thing while they're going through Kyler's rehab and hire a new coach? Or is this a situation for ownership in Arizona that despite a lot of money dumped into extensions for the next half decade on the GM and head coach, that they blow the entire thing up? I feel like it's a money conversation at this point, because if you look at it in a vacuum of performance,

I think you fire everyone involved, right? I think years ago. Yeah, well, sure. But like at this point, it? I think years ago. Yeah. Well, sure. But like at this point, it kind of just is what it is. But this is their worst record yet, right? Like this is their worst showing yet. So I think you move on from Cliff Kingsbury. You move on from Steve Kime.

You completely change things around in Arizona. You sell whoever is getting this job the security. Maybe I should put this in air quotes because security is not really a thing in the NFL unless you just win. But you basically say like, hey, it's a three-year plan minimum because next year you're going to get Kyler back probably for the last two months of the season. But even then, it's probably just a confidence-building thing. You have these free agents where – let me make sure I pull this up. I got these guys, right?

These are free agents that they have coming up. JJ Watts, a free agent, Rodney Hudson's a free agent. Justin Pugh's a free agent. AJ Green's a free agent. Kelvin Beecham's a free agent. Byron Murphy's a free agent.

Cody Ford's a free agent. So, I mean, there's a, shoot, Billy Price, a free agent. Damn damn their whole offensive line basically they have beach from starting at this point they have max garcia starting this point he's also a

free agent billy price a free agent cody ford's a free agent wow they're all i think they're in their entire offensive line at this point is free agents now they're going to be able to bring some of them back i think they have what is this year the 12th most projected cap because of everybody that's going to be free agents so they've got 20 million to spend in free agency so they could bring some of those guys back but you know you're at the point with arizona where how much of what has been built is worth salvaging right how many gms are going to come into arizona, hell yeah, love the roster, let's do it. I don't think there's that many.

Because I don't think there are that many that would have made the decisions that Steve Kimes made, I'll say specifically over the last two to three years, with signing guys and with drafting certain players. So if that's the case, if you're looking to totally rebuild, if you want to get a lot younger, if you want to try to slingshot a young winning window into when Kyler Murray gets to come back, you're also probably looking at moving on from DeAndre Hopkins, right? DeAndre Hopkins is, let me find this contract.

He's 30 right now, okay? He was 15 mil on the cap this year it jumps to 30.7 mil on the cap next year and he's 31 years old you're not going to have kyler murray it's going to be a complete waste of a year 2024 then he is 26.2 on the cap but if you cut him in 2023 it's only 11 million dead money and you save 19 million on the cap for the way that deandre hopkins contract is currently structured now one could say you don't have to cut deandre hopkins he's still a really good wide receiver you could trade him if they trade him obviously it's it's kind of the same thing you're just getting to move on from his contract and if you can find a trade partner sure i guess like a fifth round pick would be better than cutting him but my question is

who's trading for deandre hopkins getting 30 mil on the cap no one not a lot of people not a lot of teams if any teams so if anybody's trading for hopkins they would basically be having to trade for him and then restructure the deal or potentially extend it a little bit to move some money around and make it a lot more manageable to probably where he's averaging 20 million a year. If you can get it down to that. So, but at that point, you know,

the end of the contract would be, he'd be like 34, 35. So I just don't know how many teams are doing that. So if you're Arizona, I'm basically looking at a situation where you're probably not bringing most of your offensive line back i mean a lot of these guys have not played really well dj humphries is your left tackle still at least for another year before his contract's movable at all i think rodney hudson's a good player i know he's hurt but

um cardinals fans can correct me if i'm wrong there but i i thought that rodney hudson's still a really good player even when they got him from the raiders i thought he was a really good player so i think that you bring him back you've obviously got josh jones as well who they drafted in the third round not too long ago but i think you're going to need some new life on the interior you're going to need some youth on the interior and i think that's ultimately where my eyes go when it comes to this number six overall pick no offensive line man that's the way i feel about the cardinals it's got to be something along the offensive line and i've read up on this and i've read a couple of people who say like hey it has to be defense has to be defense has to be defense i think it has to

be offensive line to be honest that's just where my mind goes looking at the free agents looking at their current situation um and that's like a skaronski level prospect like a course of course pick yes because skaronski if he's not a tackle for you which i still believe that skaronski can be a tackle he is a damn good offensive guard for you so skaronski you you're getting a starter no matter what if you are drafting him right there and shoot you might get dj humphries on the left side and maybe you get skaronski to play on the right side. Maybe you can either kick Josh Jones inside or whatever. Maybe it's just like, hey, we want our tackles to be better.

But Skowronski would be the perfect fit for them, I think. That's just the way that I see the Cardinals right now, their current cap situation. I think the Cardinals, and I've felt this way for a little bit, but what kind of happened this week with the loss and then losing Kyler Murray reinforces this. They're a lot closer to a rebuilding team than they are a contending team.

And I think they've been fooling themselves a little bit with how they've acquired players that they were closer than they really were. And I think it's all just coming to a head now. So that's where I see the Cardinals. So I want to throw two things at you. First is, keep in mind, both Keim and Cliff are on extensions through the 2027 season.

It is not even 2023 here. Seven. I want to throw two things at you. One, the first thing, I will read you Steve Keim's first-round picks since he got the job. Jonathan Cooper. Okay. Deion Buchanan. Okay. kimes first round pick since he got the job jonathan cooper okay dion buchanan okay dj humphries robert kimdiche hassan reddick josh rosen kyler murray isaiah simmons zaven collins no first rounder in 2022 they traded it for hollywood brown

and that's bad and that's bad remember top 10 pick remember that's bad awful use of resources yeah he should not be he can't be making this pick he can't be making this pick. The only salvageable one is Humphreys. And I mean, we can be honest, right? Like, Rosen was not even really seen as this, like, potential major bust of a player. Yeah. And so they needed a quarterback at the time. I don't hate the pick.

I would have made that mistake. Right. Rosen was my QB1 that year, and I just think that it didn't. It just fell apart for Rosen. For a lot of reasons, it did not work. Right. And so even that one, look, you're taking a swing at the bat at a quarterback. It's the other ones for me.

But it's just hard to look at that entire tenure of first round picks and have any faith that they're going to make the right move in the top 10. I don't think they are. All right. So question number two. Yeah. Does Kyler Kyler season ending injury and maybe season costing injury for 2023 increase the likelihood that Cliff gets 2023.

He might be under contract until 2027. Are you going to, do you think this job is remotely, remotely attractive this offseason for this roster without Kyler murray and this is an ownership group that i don't know if they're gonna pay two guys for five years to not work for them well so the cash question is the biggest question right it's which we can't answer we started this conversation like are they gonna make the move to open up because you can't just go like foot in the water about it you can't just be like okay we're gonna dip our toe in the

water and fire cliff but we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna keep that's the worst thing they could do we're gonna keep time or even like the other way around like saying like all right we're gonna we're gonna keep cliff and we're gonna fire time or we're going to fire Kime or we're going to keep Kime and we're going to fire Cliff. Either one's bad. So when you ask how attractive is this Arizona Cardinals job, if you go full rebuild, if you actually be honest about where you are, this becomes an attractive job because a lot of their old contracts, not all of them, but a lot of their old contracts, the ones with vets, are done this free agency period

and or are movable immediately next year as well. If you trade DeAndre Hopkins, if you acquire more draft picks, if you tell somebody that you have a top eight overall pick, you get to, I guess, go hand in hand with the GM. And it's obviously going to be a good relationship because they're probably going to hire the GM, at least they should. Hire the GM first, and then the GM is going to be able to handpick their head coach there. So all of that to say, like, that stuff should make the job really attractive because it's flexible. They're not – the Cardinals have two ways they can go here.

They can either be really stubborn about it, and they can keep this rostered very mid, or they can be honest with themselves where they need to go that they're a lot close to a rebuild fully lean into that rebuild and then all of a sudden this job becomes to me really flexible a lot of flexible contracts things you can either get out of like i said this offseason or immediately next offseason as well you could basically have your fingerprints over this entire team for a three-year plan moving forward.

So look, if ownership has the money to make a clean sweep, they should. And that's the best way to do it. But I wonder if they will. I don't know. So this is my golden question. Golden question. What do you think? What do you think about that?

What do you think about your own question? There's this weird, weird part of me that thinks they're going to run this thing back next year. It's just the contract extensions being into 2027. It's a lot of money. I just, I don't know. I think if Kyler was healthy, knowing how vocal he is, how much money they're paying him, how integral he is to the future success of the Arizona organization, I think they might pull the plug

and get an entirely new group in there to surround him with better talent and better coaching. Yeah, but I agree with you but i also think that him being hurt doesn't hurt your case there it doesn't really hurt the case you're making right like rich people operate a lot just very odd ways like it's not like you know kyler's not dead you know like he's still gonna go into the the offseason, and I think he's still going to be vocal. If ownership goes to Kyler privately and says, what do you think? I think that he would still say the same things that you're saying right now.

But that's just my opinion. Yeah, in that case, they have to entirely blow this thing up and get a GM and head coach that are going to work together and come in there. So when Kyler is back, the talent and the momentum is in the right direction. Yeah. We'll round out the draft order just so we can comment on any of these picks outside of the top 10 as well. Jacksonville has got pick number 11,

Houston number 12 via the Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh sitting there at 13, Green Bay at 14, Detroit at 15. Man, Detroit's playing well and they still got two top 15 picks chargers at 16 uh seattle now it's 17 oh they're not in the playoffs right now oh no no no no them and the jets are both on the outside wow seattle's in there at 17

jets are sitting there at 18. Bucks are sitting there at 19. Playoff spot, baby. Titans at 20. New England Patriots with their win on Monday Night Football. That vaulted them into a playoff spot at number 21. Then it's the Commanders, 22. Giants at 23.

Miami's forfeited pick at 24. Denver Broncos at 25 because of their trade for Bradley Chubb. Baltimore at 26. Cincinnati, 27. Dallas Cowboys at 28, Kansas City 29, Minnesota 30, Buffalo 31, and the Philadelphia Eagles picking at 32. Anything stand out?

Anything from 11 to 32? Man, it's tricky right now because this is so volatile, this order. We have teams dipping in and out of the back end of the playoff seating. Obviously, Houston's going to be an interesting team, but we talk a lot about them. I want Jacksonville to win the division. I want Jacksonville. I just want Jacksonville to get into the wild card, man.

I want to see it. There are only two games back right now of the Titans. Titans look awful Jags are currently picking 11 and and there's a world where they could be picking like 19 or 20 there is a very odd world where Jacksonville in the final week of the season is playing Tennessee for the division oh they play week 18 yeah they play week 18 at chat at duval okay how how likely is that now their road's tough they have the cowboys jets then the texans who are spunky i'm not doing the whole the texans are the run over team anymore they're a little annoying clearly not they're clearly not they're a little annoying so do we think jacksonville can rip off all three of those before they meet tennessee maybe they have a shot annoying so do we think jacksonville can rip off all three of those before they meet tennessee maybe they have a shot it's just not very it's just not highly likely

yeah i don't think so either i i think your bucks are fascinating like are the bucks gonna be the team that dips into that quarterback water at the back end of the first round. I hope. Yeah. Anthony Richardson, baby. Are they the Anthony Richardson spot? You could sell that to the Tampa fans, right? I don't know who their offensive coordinator is going to be, but. Head coach, so many questions.

I think the head coach is still going to be Todd Bowles. But no, what the Buccaneers are going to do is obviously going to be, it's going to be fascinating to follow because what happens at the quarterback position, right? Their QB to the entire year has been Blaine Gabbert simply for the experience, but it's not like you're, you're handing the reins of this team to Blaine Gabbert. If Tom Brady either retires, it goes elsewhere. Right. And then you look elsewhere, you go, Oh,

well they drafted Kyle Trask in the second round, not too long too long ago sure but he's been a healthy scratch like every game so it's not like they've even taken him seriously at this point so would you would you really go into next season either starting blaine gabbert or kyle trask probably not i i would tell you that no matter what if brady is not there tampa's next starting quarterback's not on the roster. They're either trading for a veteran, like a Jimmy G or something like that, or they're going to draft one in the first round and they're going to be the quarterback.

That's right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. They could definitely do the... There's a chance that Tampa's quarterback room involves nobody currently on the team next year. Right. They can absolutely be vet draft pick together. I wonder if wonder if the bucks are going to be in on will levis i think he doesn't get to them no no i i know but like how high does will levis go because

jason light their general manager is not one to trade a lot of his draft picks to move up why because jason loves the draft it's i mean it's his favorite thing to do but i do feel like every gm gets that itch to make a major like trade up trade and i don't feel like the bucks have done that in his tenure so would this be the time to do it right when you have the roster the way it is when you're hopefully a lot more healthy next year if tom brady goes elsewhere are you sitting there at let's even let's even say they they win the division let's even say they're they're picking at 19 and they look at whoever's picking at number 10 and they go we'll give you a first round pick next year and an extra day to pick as well whatever it is get us up to number 10 if will levis flies to 10 i don't know man

these are just things that are fascinating to think about bucks have never really done that in their tenure before with jason light but maybe they could um maybe i don't know they are they're definitely one of the interesting players i look at levis and just think wherever he goes i cannot see him getting by the colts i can't see yeah i mean that's probably that's a good it's good they're at seven right now they could be picking higher if i could if i could bet on will levis going to the colts today knowing the odds would just be completely in the public's favor at this very moment you'd be looking at like plus 500 that launched today i would i would put a hundred dollars on it yeah even Gambling man over here. If you guys want to put $100 somewhere else,

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Use the promo code STOCK when you guys sign up. Bro Throw is free to sign up for. Cut out the middleman, start betting, and you can start betting with people who listen to this podcast, so fellow sex addicts. That is brothrow.com backslash stock. You guys got to get into it. Anything else on the draft order before we hit some underclassmen declarations what do you got i just got a good chuckle out of fellow sex addicts yeah fellow

sex addicts um no i think i think i think you recovered this one pretty good today i don't want to get too deep on the the back end with all those teams in the playoff hunt because i know their fan bases are focused on that but as they should as they should be but there's a lot of different declarations that went down that you know we've kind of been waiting on but will impact the draft pretty heavily so handful of names that i've seen over the last week or so that put their name in the draft pool you just tell me where you want to start but i got josh downs the wide receiver from unc tank bigssby. The running back from Auburn, Devon Achain. The running back from Texas A&M, B.J. Ojalary. The pass rusher from LSU, Jalen Jones. The cornerback from Texas A&M, Michael Mayer.

One of the best tight ends in the NFL. Probably tight end one in this class from Notre Dame, Tanner McKee. The starting quarterback for Stanford, officially putting his name in the hat. Clark Phillips, the corner from Utah. Luke Musgraves, the tight end from Oregon State. And then Parker Washington, the wide receiver for penn state those are the notable guys that i saw over the last week connor anybody you want to touch on specifically with these guys officially in the draft class man yeah there's a lot going on here i mean obviously mayor is going

to be fascinating he's one of the more complete tight ends I've ever evaluated so no surprise that he enters the draft um Clark Phillips has been my guy since the summer I've watched a lot of since he declared without giving away our edge show oh Jalari can just simply rush the passer it's very very impressive he has a skill set that's tailor-made to get on the field for passing downs on the NFL very very early and. And he's, I mean, he's a very, very impressive player. A-Chain was a top 30 player for me over the summer. I think his speed is pretty groundbreaking. Downs has been a part of our stock up show before. I've seen some lofty player comps on Josh.

I thought we liked Josh Downs. I've seen some lofty player comps thrown around on Josh Downs that I will not mention yet on this show. I think he's a nice slot player in a wide receiver class that doesn't have, I'm pulling him right now in the dock, that doesn't have a ton of superstar talent. Well, I would agree with you, and that's where, you know, when I see this list downs in

washington putting their name in the hat stands out right to me because there's going to be a lot of debate between i think those three and then you throw jackson smith and jigba there as well there's i wonder if they i wonder if each of those guys kind of like cannibalize each other's stock if you will where it's like, we'd be happy with any of these guys because they're all slot studs. How high do you actually pick them? Great. And I do, I do wonder if that's going to be the case with some of these slot players, because it seems like you're right. I do agree with you. We're lacking star studded talent at the wide receiver group. Doesn't mean it's a terrible class, but there's a lot of slot guys to be had so is that just gonna are they all gonna kind of like

turn into one ball if you will where you're happy with any of the ones you're getting i'm very curious i'm curious to see how people end up ranking them well let's put it like this right i mean we'll just do last year and there's been some really impressive wide receiver classes as it stands today i wouldn't have any wide receiver in this class over my top five from last year which was garrett wilson jameson williams trailing burks drake london chris alabe a single one in this class would be over those five i would probably have quentin uh i wasn't the big trailer i wasn't the biggest trailing burks fan um and i was lower on johan dotson um so i would i would have had quinn johnston as wide receiver

five in last year's class. I would have had Jameson Williams, Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, and Drake London above Quinn Johnston. But man, saying that out loud, it's like, holy cow, if Quinn Johnston would have been wide receiver five, that just shows you how spoiled we were with last year's wide receiver class. What a class. Insane.

And then, I mean, you continue to go back. It's a lot of the same. Man, there's a couple of nice players in this wide receiver class. If you're looking for a superstar. Oh man, no, wait. Would I have had him over Pickens? I totally forgot.

Yeah, you were Mr. Pickens. No way. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know. No, I don't think I would have. Pickens is a better version of johnston i gotta i gotta i gotta find out what my i gotta remind myself what my final rankings were for wide receiver because i'm trying to think about it and i'm trying not to be hyperbolic with uh dude you gotta you gotta you go with my jam this is the lazy man's lazy man's strategy yeah i have my position rankings as my pin tweet until the next draft every year that's smart uh no i would have equated johnston as wide

receiver six easily i jmo number one i had drake london number two i had george pickens three i had gary or i had uh chris olave four and i had gary wil five, which I already said on Monday's show, like I did not take Garrett Wilson's short term or short area explosiveness as seriously as I should have, because that guy's body control is just out of this world good. And I wondered if it would continue to stand out in the NFL. And that was a big question mark that I have. And it absolutely is. And because of that, you're just seeing him absolutely tear it up if I had to re-rank these

now a year later Kara Wilson might be number one for me so Quinn Johnson would firmly be wide receiver six for me but he would be wide receiver six and that's where the I mean that's where the conversation goes it's amazing we got there from talking about Josh Downs and Parker Washington declaring and this being a slot class. Man, Musgrave has been hurt, but he just goes to show you how good this tight end class is. I mean, Tucker Craft, Dalton Kincaid. I just. It's obviously Mayer declared as well.

We are big Darnell Washington fans. This is a good tight end class it's this happens in the draft it's just the laws of nature the pendulum always kind of swings back a couple different ways we had I feel like we haven't had a very deep tight end class lately in terms of the top 60 of the draft last year's was good it was deep though from rounds back half of the second round on this year i mean mayor is going to challenge easily to go in the first round oh yeah yeah easily i mean he's going to go he's going to surprise nothing surprises me anymore with positional value but he he should easily go in the first round i think we get i think we get two in the first round i think it goes in the first round you do okay Darnell goes in the first round. You do? Okay.

At this point in time, yeah, I would tell you that Darnell is probably going to be a very back-end of the first round guy. I think he'll be a top 30 player for me. A contending team at the back-end of the first round getting a monster like Darnell Washington, I feel like that's going to be too tempting for whoever the bottom six teams are at the back end of the first round i don't know that's that's just my take here

what do we december 13th i think we get two tight ends dallas yeah sure sure yeah dallas i mean you have schultz on the tag. Baltimore. I like, what's that? Baltimore. How many tight ends can that freaking team take? All of them. And they all, if they're starting that week, it feels like they hit 100 yards. Weird season for Mark Andrews, though, so far. Very weird season for Mark Andrews.

So they got Andrews, they got Josh Oliver, they got Isaiah Likely. Yeah. Charlie Kohler's just been chilling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but okay. None of those guys do what Darnell Washington does as a blocker. Oh, you're being serious. You really think Baltimore?

Yeah. Oh, man. I think they have a lot of other things to address. Nick Boyle goes up to 9 mil on the cap next year. Well, he's gone. But that's why they drafted 8 million of them in the last two years. Yeah, but none of them are Darnell Washington. I agree, but Baltimore has a lot of them.

They drafted receiving tight ends because they didn't want to draft wide receivers. Now you've got to go the other way. I mean, Darnell Washington, his blocking alone. Giants. Here's the thing. Giants. Darnell Washington's big enough where you can ronnie bass remember the titans play them both ways that's all you gotta do okay he'll play

tight end on offense he'll play defensive line on defense there you go are you happy yes i i'm happy any scenario that gets darnell washington in the first round it's good for the game giants could uh i mean bellinger's been good nah bellinger's been good enough i don't think you're gonna do on Washington in the first round. It's good for the game. Giants could. I mean, Bellinger's been good. Nah, Bellinger's been good enough. I don't think you're going to do that. He's a tight end, too. Bellinger?

Yeah. Sure. Right? We'll see. But he's good. Who else did we have? Tank Bigsby was somebody you and I were surprisingly low on in the summer yeah i felt like i and i have not gone over running backs really a lot since but i feel like he played better this year even from just watching auburn a little bit live i felt like i like because

athletic ability and just ability overall never was the issue with Tank Bixby. It was like he loses balance and like run out of control all the time. And like, all right, well, I can't really bet on that if you just don't have good balance and you're running out of control. But it felt like he was more in control this year. Maybe he took the spirit of Cadillac Williams being the interim head coach and just channeled that. I don't know. Tank Bixby is somebody who's

going to be high on my list once we get back to to uh to running backs yeah i'll have to um i'm literally pulling up right now i remember something we highlighted with him over the summer was that he had four fumbles in 2021 it looks like he just like was out of control it just felt like he was running out of control, like not balanced. You're like not really taking care of the ball the way it was. Yeah, I was on this year. I was shocked watching him over the summer because I thought I was going to like his tape more. And I didn't. Yeah, so he'll be a really interesting guy to reevaluate.

Obviously, we're going through that process right now with all the edge guys. And I don't think there was one. And oh, there was one in our recent declaration as uh miles murphy oh yeah i forgot to i forgot to add murphy in here yeah miles murphy officially declared once again this is something that will lead off tomorrow's show very heavily so yep i mean this the guys that we thought would leave outside of Olu and Penix are leaving. Simple as that. Yeah, who's the other one that went back?

Oh, Kayshaun. Kayshaun Boutte went back. But that was a good decision. That was a good decision. He should have been on that. Only other ones really, Tanner McKee. And I haven't gone over McKee's film from this year. Oh, where was it?

I was shocked at some of his pff stats that i was looking at 40 times i think you told me yeah like a billion times where did this go this is what happens when you have eight million tabs open okay yeah yeah all right tanner mckee this past year better passing grade that he had in 2021, which is encouraging. He had 14 big-time throws to just eight turnover-worthy plays the year before he had 17 big-time throws and 15 turnover-worthy plays. So the turnover-worthy play percentage

a lot lower this year. Still didn't clip 3,000 yards just because Stanford's offense was booty. He was sacked 40 times this year. 40. Yikes. Had to scramble 24 times. And my man is not a scrambler.

The man is 6'6", 235. No. That just shows you how bad Stanford's offense was. I think he's going to be fascinating. I don't think McKee's going to challenge some of the more talented players in this quarterback class, but I do think he's going to be a decent option when it comes to a potential top 50 selection. I think there's going to be some teams that like him.

I remember I liked his game. Obviously, he was a big, tall dude, had a nice arm, had good velocity on his throws with a smooth passer. The accuracy was the biggest issue going into this season, and his adjusted completion percentage is a point lower than it was the biggest issue going into this season and his adjusted completion percentage is a point lower than it was the year before um which i think is the thing that i will note the most because i remember in summer scouting what i wrote down is his biggest weakness is like the ball just doesn't go where he wants it sometimes the ball placement was a big issue for me so that'll be

what i'm looking forward to looking at once we get to um once we get to quarterbacks over the next month and a half here and maybe he wanted to declare because you know stanford going through all the changes he was probably going to go in the portal the portal if he did not declare and this is a guy that served a two-year mission in brazil before enrolling at stanford so maybe he just didn't want to be, I have his birthday written down. So April of 2000. So he'll probably be 22, 23. So 23 is not bad. No, but he probably didn't want to go back and be 24 on the night he was drafted.

Yeah, sure. It's something people talk about all the time. It's Hennon Hooker constantly talked about with that. No, and I definitely hear what you're saying. I just wonder if what matters more, an extra year of age or you transferring easily now. Let's remember, you easily transferring. It's like being a free agent.

To a better spot. I don't know. Yeah, I'd love to know what feedback he got to um from the advisory board you know because for him to declare maybe he did get that round three plus kind of advice that came in next time thank you next time we're at panera i'll ask him that's where you guys go the what do they do soup and half a sandwich? I'm not the biggest Panera guy. Oh, I'm not either.

I'm not either. I was about to make a joke that we would go to Panera, I'd order the food, I'd throw it away, and then we'd just have the conversation just because we're there. Sorry I bamboozled your bit. It's all right. I thought you were about to, I swear, in my mind, as soon as you said order the food and throw it

i thought you were gonna say throw it away but he'd miss the trash bin no no no no i'm not gonna go that hard on him we're eating chipotle wherever it is whether it's a panera or whether it's a carloftis yeah yeah yeah we're just they bring the carloftis in on on the forklift. When you order the Carloptis, they bring a forklift out of the back and bring you the quadruple rice and quadruple steak. The Carloptis was double rice, triple steak, right? That's it? Like no veggies? Oh, no, no, no.

Yeah, it was all meat and rice. No, it was literally just meat and rice. It was just, I think, right? I think it was double rice triple meat triple steak by the way it's triple steak yeah oh man okay i got it it came up right away on a google search so the carloftis is triple steak double white rice yeah light cheese very light very light and that's it there's nothing else in this thing how did that not that's something that could get you drafted second overall that's so psychotic as a pass rusher i remember tweeting when i saw that the george karloftis uses chipotle

like diesel fuel in a war tank it's true there's no there's no enjoyment in that bowl it's simply simple carbs red meat protein and a little bit of fat with the cheese literally and then when he gets low on gas it's not an enjoyable experience just okay let me fuel back up man that's what it is all right what is there we go that was a show That was a show for everybody. We got one more coming up for you this week. Connor and I are going through edge rushers. We are updating our edge rusher ranking. So we haven't done this. We didn't have as much time as we probably would have liked during the,

during the season. Both of us just really busy, obviously covering a lot of these games, but now's a good time, right? Regular season's over. We got a little bit of downtime between now and uh the next time the college football games really kick off so we wanted to update some of our rankings edge rushers a huge position a lot of people love

to talk about so we're going to go through we're going to update our edge rankings and we're going to give you guys our top five players since we've been able to watch them and uh their 2022 tape i was going to say it's in its entirety but i mean there's some players that are still playing so i don't know if it's gonna be fully in its entirety but the regular season's over so we're getting early rankings right i mean obviously the the combine some guys have some games left but really the combine and the process as a whole could affect them here but this is a really good baseline for rankings yeah so that's a good way to say it so we're doing that tomorrow we're going to take a look at uh edge rusher rankings let us know what you thought on this

show where your team is drafted and what we thought for your team let us know your thoughts on the seattle seahawks plan that both connor and i proposed what we thought about the arizona cardinals whether you think we're spot on whether you think we're way off and what you guys think of some of these overall draft prospects that we brought to the table for underclassmen. Definitely wanted to note this super sad of the passing of Mike Leach, obviously a Titan in the football world that affected so many people. And what I love the most about Mike Leach is that not only was he one of the forefathers of an offense that we still see to this day in high school football and college football and NFL football. But he used his success in the game of football to champion so many other great qualities of life.

He was a man who brought so many smiles, laughs and just overall joy to so many people's lives. And he was a one of one unique individual who was as genuine as they come. And I think that that's something that is certainly worth celebrating as we remember his life. And here on this show, Connor and I hopefully do things in a very genuine way. And I hope that that always comes out in our audio medium and on camera as well. But we like to do this because it allows us to be ourselves. And that is just something that I constantly learn from Mike Leach over and over and over again with every crazy quote, with every crazy press conference, every crazy answer topic and everything. And so just wanted to say that we're sending our condolences, our love and our prayers to

his family, to the Mississippi State family, to all his friends, his loved ones, everybody that knew him very near and dear. And we lost a, the world lost a great man, but he's somebody who I think that we could take a lot of those lessons from and just make it a better place. So I wanted to make sure that I said that as well. Very well said. Obviously, somebody that it's inspiring how comfortable he was being himself. Since football has been so, or was, I felt like a very black and white business in a sense of, you know, this is how football is. And at a press conference, this is what you say. And during an interview during the game, this is what you do. And some of that could have bled out to, you know, how podcasting or TV shows are covering football and all those things. And I

think Leach's personality you know like people like you and i trevor kind of inspires us to be comfortable getting off the rails and maybe there's that one or two people in the comments or tweeting about it or saying you know get to the football but then there's the other 98 percent that that's why they come back and tune in because it's just it's fun fun. And that's what this is all about. And I think Mike Leach did a good job often reminding people that being in the football space is about having fun and being yourself. And if you could do those two things every day, it's a pretty accomplished life.

Be fun and be you. Those are two of the best life lessons that you could ever learn from Mike Leach. That's what we're trying to do every single episode on this show. Appreciate you guys for watching. Appreciate you guys for listening. We got one more show. We're updating our edge rushers tomorrow. I'm Trevor Sycamore. That's Connor Rogers. We'll see you then on the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. Outro Music