NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 132. Early Tight End Position Rankings For 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: January 5, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their updated tight end position rankings (post-regular season) for the 2023 NFL Draft. The two talk about their rankings in the preseason, things that have changed since then, and give each their new Top 5 rankings for the position.

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we're giving you our early rankings for the tight end class in the 2023 NFL Draft. Such a unique position. So many different shapes and sizes, players that can impact the game, mainly as blockers, as receivers.

How do we value each of them? Where do they fit? Who's going to the first round? Who's going top 50? Who's going to be those day three gems? We'll tell you all that. We'll give you our top fives and so much more. I'm Trevor Sycamore.

With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. welcome to the opening bell of the nfl stock exchange podcast i'm trevor sycamore that is connor rogers joining you guys on a thursday edition of the show where we are ranking some 2023 tight ends for the 2023 nfl draft class as we have done throughout this little series that we're doing, updating our position rankings, Connor and I are going to give you our top fives of the position. We're going to talk about them, go from five to one, because of course we got to build up the suspense of who's going to be number one. Although I do think the answer is kind of obvious in this class, but we'll also talk to you about some of the guys that we watch that are just out of the top five as well. So Connor, how are you feeling today, my man? I'm good, dude.

This was a fun group to go through. It's got, I think, a lot of talent in the top four, I would say. And then there's, like most tight end classes, there's solid depth. And when you get into the five through maybe even 11 kind of range, there's guys that'll probably be able to crack a roster and hang on to the NFL for a while and develop in some areas. So I'm good, man. I'm still in Vegas. This is for those listening

or sick of seeing me in the hotel. This is my last stock exchange from Vegas. I will be back. I will be back for our final What Matters Most of the Regular season when we record that Sunday evening. So everything's good, man. Holding strong out here and apparently

they call this place the gas i i didn't know that it's it's the last time you're going to be recording from a hotel unless of course you hit a massive jackpot in which case we will be seeing you on monday with sunglasses on inside from your penthouse at the top of whatever hotel that you're currently staying at so that that's. Yeah. Yeah. I'll actually like turn the laptop around and show the view if that happens and be like, Oh, there's the pool, 55 floors below me. And there's the suite. And instead, you know, I'm living modestly. I guess you can call it in Vegas right now. Yes.

A modest living right now. Although I don't know if that's going to happen. I really fun fact, trevor i don't play cards i don't play slots uh i like roulette but like that's okay i like roulette and obviously i like betting on sports a lot and you could do a lot of that here but you could also do that when i go back to new york new jersey or wherever in the tri-state so i'm i'm kind of just watching the chaos of it here to be honest sitting in a sports book just watching 80 screens of obscure sports with a drink in your hand while your friends are elsewhere around the casino probably losing money is a wonderful feeling it is a wonderful oh dude you're just you're kicking back it's a comfortable chair this the sports books in vegas

are a wonderful time even if you can even if you can bet in uh an area where you're from like is the case with you hanging out in the sports book is pretty great it's just you know you get to you get to get together with some people and just like a table you know like you'll all be like okay well are we all just random strangers you're like all right we're all betting on the suns tonight right we're betting on the suns to win and then you all sit there and you watch the suns and if they win you go crazy and if not then uh you just go separate ways never see each other one quick thing before we get into the tight ends i was out to dinner um at caesar's and it's the palace for those that didn't know it's it's it's just like the real palace but it um i um, I'm eating dinner at, you know, quiet, cool place. And you

just hear screw like a entire shout of the place. And I looked at the bar TV and it was the Kings hitting a buzzer beater. And I'm like, yeah, that's the cool thing about being in a casino near a sports book is that people have live action and it literally comes down to the final seconds of the game and people scream and go crazy. And it's fun to see their happiness. It is, it is, It is wonderful to see it. All right, let's get into this tight end class, and I'll start off by saying this. I'll kick it to you. We'll get your number five guy in this class. We'll go from five to one.

But I will say this. The end of the episode yesterday, you said, ah, you know, the top five is probably going to be pretty easy. You know, it's just solidified, and then it's okay after that. I had to think about it a little bit here. With like six and seven i came to a very comfortable ranking but i'm curious who your five is because of what you said yesterday where it's like all right yeah you really like the top four or five guys so

who is your number five guy right now in the uh in the 2023 tight end class and i will say looking at the senior bowl roster which has some talent i'm curious that is a week that i go down a mobile and i try to like contain myself and not overreact but also it does matter and i think it matters for tight ends a lot i think tight ends can really do can show a lot down there whether it's their fluidity their hands their physicality and blocking so i'm excited to watch the senior bowl group and see if some of those guys move. But number five, and you're right, number five was definitely more fluid. I didn't write five and ink and I'm like, this is the guy. I did think one through four, I would be a little surprised barring some kind of combine or crazy

meltdown. If my one through four, if any of those four guys fell out of the top four. But number five for me was Sam Laporta, who going back to summer, I think I had him as tight end four, and now he's at tight end five. And with Laporta, to be honest with you, Trevor, going over my summer notes and writing my 2022 notes, there's not really a lot that changed in his game. I think if he declared early, his draft projection is relatively the same. This is somebody in 2022.

He had 53 catches. 30 of them went for first downs. 592 yards. He caught one touchdown. We know the shortcomings of the Iowa offense. He had six drops on 82 targets in 2022. He did play all over, which was kind of cool to see he had 27 snaps in the backfield 338 in line 110 in the slot 82 out wide uh played 39 snaps on the field

goal slash extra point teams which is always helpful you're gonna have to do that as a rookie uh he had meniscus surgery after the regular season and and you know was very adamant about coming back for the bowl game he seems like a guy that you know really really i hate this cliche but he really does care he wanted to come back to iowa he could have left early uh he wanted to play through injury i think teams will really really like him i wrote down i didn't see a kill shot blocker in the run game like it's not going to be like kiddo tape but i thought his movement skills will thrive in his own scheme he can get to the spots he needs to get to i really like that he has some experience blocking out of the backfield because i think with tight ends today that aren't these bona fide top 60 to 70 picks that kind of versatility was

something i thought jeremy rucker could do coming out of ohio state i think it really helps your chance to make a roster that most nfl rosters don't carry guys that just play backfield, play tight end. They can also play in the backfield. They could do a lot of different things in specials. The last thing I wrote away from my 2021 film notes was he's a jack of all trades player. I didn't come away watching Sam Laporta and saying he's going to be a great receiving tight end. He's going to be a great blocking tight end. I kind of evaluate him as a tight end two in the league that you take in the third round kind of area and he could be a solid possession guy he can be a smart blocker that still needs to develop a little bit of strength in the blocking game

but overall a solid back end of you know this top five tight end class yeah i also had him graded out as a late day two guy so really a third round guy that's the grade that i gave him here i had him in number six so i mean i could just talk about him a little bit i was going to talk about him at some point with him being just outside of my top five it is funny because you see a tight end in an io uniform and you just like you're excited your mind automatically goes to like oh yeah this guy can block like i'm just gonna check this box already we're all good with it but laporta is i don't want to say like lighter seems like not the right word because he is 250 you know he's listed at 250 but he just plays more like a receiver than i feel like a lot of iowa tight

ends have in the past and they do no no no, no, no, no, no. That's definitely, they ask him to be, you mentioned, I'm glad that you mentioned the snap counts because I was going to mention that. I mean, they put him out wide as an X receiver a lot of times. Like they'll run him in a quick game. They'll have new quick slants. They'll just get him the ball in a lot of different ways. So he is more of a receiver than a blocker.

He's certainly a willing blocker, but he's just not nearly as imposing as somebody who you would, I think, just naturally believe when they put on that Iowa helmet, that Iowa uniform. You just feel like they're just, oh, yeah, they're going to be a monster in a blocking game. And it's not, Laporte is not bad. I don't want to say that at all, but he is more of a receiver. He's just got more of a receiver to his game. And it took me a couple of games for me to really be like, okay, that's actually his brand.

He's not as much of an all-around tight end. I do think he's more of a receiving tight end than he is a blocker. But I do agree with you. I think he's got that tight end to mold where you can use him in a variety of different situations. If you're a team that loves to use multi-tight ends, if you're in 12 personnel, 13 personnel a lot, then he is somebody that i think could really

give you a lot of pluses he's not somebody where even though i think he's better as a receiver than he is as a blocker he's not a player that i think is like a liability you know so that's that's where you get that all around label i think that you have the freedom to play him in a lot of different situations biggest issue with me for him outside of some of the drops some of the drop issues that you kind of named there is when he is trying to separate gain separation he doesn't do so as well with his athleticism before the ball you know if he's just a route runner he's not really a separator when it comes to right now if you get the ball in his hands early if you can get him involved in the quick game he gets yards after the catch he's a really nice catch player he definitely does

but before that ball is in his hand when he is just running his routes the ways in which i saw him create separation the most are with contact at the break point right where if you're running a post or you're running an out or an in or whatever you're just changing direction one way or another the times in which he was getting the most separation are when he's really getting physical with you at the break of a route and he's able to kind of like bump you the other way as he goes the other if it was ever something where the the db or the linebacker whoever it was was able to absorb the contact or even not take the contact they were really staying hip to hip with them there really wasn't a lot of separation, which is okay.

Sometimes it's just the game of a tight end. But if you're looking for him to be more of a receiver, I think that that was worth noting about him. So I had him number six on this list. My number five was Oregon State's Luke Musgrave. So that's what it was down to for me. Okay. So was he six for you?

He was. And once this is probably the biggest like process guy for me, right. Cause of the injury. I think that just, I'm really curious how you evaluated him because I found it very difficult to fully evaluate him while also being excited about what he can do when healthy. So Redshirt Jr. from Oregon State, they've got him listed at 6'6", 250 pounds, so obviously really good length. Only played in two games this season, so you've got to rely on a lot of his tape that he had from last year, but he's a really nice receiving tight end.

He gives you a lot of length, and he gives you a big catch radius, which is fantastic. I also noted while I was kind of looking up his background stuff, his father, Doug Musgrave, played quarterback at Oregon, while his uncle, Bill Musgrave, has been an OC in the NFL, played quarterback at the NFL level from 1991 to 1998 for the Dallas Cowboys, San Francisco 49ers, Denver Broncos, Indianapolis Colts. So he's got some NFL bloodlines to him, which is great. In high school, I also want to mention that he was a member of not just the football team, but also lacrosse, track, and ski racing.

That's going to be something where when we get down to Mobile. Did your high school have that? No. In Florida? We couldn't even spell snow in florida florida was something we only heard our uh snow was something we only read about it was a fantasy it was from new york we didn't have ski racing that's something that i definitely want to ask him about when we get down to mobile uh i have questions yeah for him or for me no yours is pretty cut and dried i have some questions for him uh so my my spark notes version of him as as a receiving tight end because he is

more of that receiving tight end mold big smooth athlete who can be a good receiving tight end at the next level i think he's got some strength concerns with blocking and contested catches but that is stuff that can be improved. I think he's a good day to kind of a tight end. Didn't feel like he was a reliable pass blocker very much. There were a couple of games that were worse than others. Sometimes you could turn on some tape and go, okay, you can get away with this. Like he's, he's okay blocking this game,

but there are other games where I, you know, he's missing, he's missing the target. He can't square up guys between his shoulders. Like he's letting guys get by him. And it's just like, it's kind of got to be better if you're going to be an inline tight end that's relied upon in that realm. He is truly more of a receiver than he is a blocker.

So you could just emphasize that part of his game a little less, knowing that he's actually going to give you pluses in the receiving game. But that's kind of just the way that I saw him. I think a lot of other people like Musgrave more than I do and it's maybe it's the projection thing with him only playing two games this season and he played well right he used there's there's some reps where he was going up against Boise State and Fresno State in those two games early on in the season that Boise State game especially he had a couple of plays where he'd run drag routes and they get get him the ball early he'd get some good yards after the catch or you know they'd send him up the seam and he was able to really get a nice

extended catch in between the linebacker and the safety levels and he was very comfortable making catches in that area which is very valuable but uh i didn't see like a like a rare athlete for the position for that job that he was asked to do and i also just i didn't feel like a, like a rare athlete for the position for that job that he was asked to do. And I also just, I didn't feel like he was as reliable as a blocker as it seems like some other people do. So I know that some people have Luke Musgraves as a tight end two in this class, tight end three in this class, like a,

a potential fringe first round guy, a super early second round guy. And I'm not that high on him. So I've got him at five in this class I see where you can use him I see where he can help he is a good receiving tight end he could definitely have a role doing that at the NFL level but in terms of how much you're getting him on the field how much you're emphasizing him in an offense at the pro level that's something I feel a little bit more hesitant on than other people do but I'm excited to see him in mobile and see what he can do in that realm. Yeah, me too. I think this is a really big couple of months for him.

I guess for me, I just, I don't have as high hopes in terms of projection and sounds like you're the same that some people do. They're talking about him as a top three tight end in this class. Cause I mean, yeah, there's only so much you can watch even in 2021 with the lack of production and in that offense. And it's not I'm not saying it's his fault. I'm just saying what you can watch.

You're projecting a lot if you're taking him as top three tight end in this class. So he really needs a big couple of months. Hopefully he's fully healthy and we'll see what he can do. All right. This is where I thought kind of starts to get fun in the top four. There's a maybe a relatively sizable gap to these guys from number five um i should actually double check make sure i don't say so number four for me is dalton kincaid and kincaid's been around college football for a while he'll turn 24 in

october of his rookie season i actually thought he was going to be in last year's draft so i've watched a lot of dalton kincaid for the last two years now. And I mean, here's the scoop with him. 70 catches, 49 for first downs, 890 yards, eight touchdowns this year. Probably dropped two passes in 2022. I mean, this is somebody that he has really, really good hands, honestly. If it's coming his way, especially in the middle of the field in the red zone, I thought that's where he maximized his catch radius.

And I guess I should start with his height and weight. That would probably help people that don't know. 6'4", 242, definitely a lankier kind of guy. So he could host a podcast? He actually is right near the threshold. Yeah, he could host a podcast. Don Kincaid, you are in the running for the NFL Stock Exchange host job. I wrote this is where it got a little weird with him

because you look at the production and you're like, these guys, tight ends in college football don't do this, right? Or what he's doing. I think of Trey McBride having that mammoth year at Colorado State. You'd watch Colorado State and you're like, they just want Trey McBride to be the offense and who could blame them. But a lot of the time you turn on tight end tape and we'll get to one that was like this, but they're just,

they're just not asked to be that focal point of the passing game consistently. Like Kincaid obviously was, I read these not very sudden or twitchy, but he doesn't need a lot of space to make a play on the ball. I mean, he's one of those guys that if the timing and the anticipation is really well read by the quarterback in the route, he doesn't need a full step. He can kind of be a half step or a quarter step,

and he's just going to use the long arms and his good hands to make a play on the ball. This is where I called him a receiving tight end to start this evaluation. He gets destroyed in the trenches. I mean, and I think this is what was more concerning to me. I don't think it's a lack of effort at all, by the way. I think Dalton Kincaid plays with great effort. He gets overpowered by D-line and linebackers,

and DBs slip his blocks all the time. So that tells me that the athleticism and the strength is an issue, where it's not to hate on Don Cacade. I just thought he was a very one-dimensional player at the tight end position. If you are leaving him in line in the NFL, I mean, you're setting yourself up for disaster, I thought. And he's going to be a 24-year-old in October. I don't think there's a part of his game that'll drastically grow.

But if you're looking for that possession part of his game that'll drastically grow. But if you're looking for that possession kind of tight end that can constantly move the sticks and make plays in the red zone, I think that's his key role at the next level. And that's a very important one. And that's why I think he'll be drafted in the first three rounds of next year's draft. Man. Okay.

So I, I think, well, I think that we saw his strength similarly. I think I just believe in him a little bit more than you do i've got him as tight end three so i've got him one spot higher um i have him behind my top two guys which we'll get to but i i i felt like his tape this year was good man i give it a little give a little bit of a background to him and you mentioned you he's going to be 24

his rookie season in the nfl this was a zero star recruit coming out of high school a zero star recruit he played just one year of high school football for a high school that ran the wing t offense only grounded pound i mean he is a like connor said i think he's better as a blocker than connor's giving him credit for but like putting don kincaid a high school version of don kincaid as a pure blocker than Conor's giving him credit for, but like putting Don Kincaid, a high school version of Don Kincaid as a pure blocker in a wing T offense, like it's just, there's nowhere to shine. So he actually played at San Diego, not San Diego State, San Diego, an FCS school

for the first two years that he was playing college football before he transfers over to Utah. So he has really been kind of building up to this moment. So it's not like he's been at the program for five straight years and it took him a long time to break out. not like he's been at the program for five straight years and it took him a long time to break out like it has definitely been a slow burn for him but i think he's playing really really well one of the highest graded offensive players that we had in college football last season 91.1 overall grade 92 receiving grade that was the highest

receiving mark that we had at the tight end position last year in the fbs yes higher than michael mayer run blocking grade and pass blocking grade 61.0 57.2 you mentioned the receptions 80 sorry 66 receptions on 87 targets connor one drop one drop all season long with that much production 26.1 threat percentage which is a wide receiver usage which basically goes into how often are you being targeted per route that you run so he's at 26.1 that's a good number contested catch percentage above 50 52.9 which you love i i just i think i like the athleticism a little bit a little bit more than you did even yeah i know that you said that that's where he's going to boast his game user receiving tight end and i totally agree with you if you're going to draft him and you're going to use him in the nfl it's going to be for his receiving ability but i think he's smooth i

think he's sudden i think he he makes people miss in the open field a lot better than i thought he gets the ball very quickly he knows how to miss make that might make those guys miss in the open field so i think he's got good athleticism both before and after the catch. And when it came to blocking, there's definitely some reps where you're going, okay, like this is not great. In fact, one of the little blurbs that I have is reckless and at times dangerous in run blocking technique. Has bad tendencies to put the crown of his helmet straight down when making contact. Doesn't trust his strength.

Causes him to miss target points. He's got bad leverage and just overall dangerous to his posterior chain when that happens. There's also a handful of times where he'll be lined up as a wingback and he'll be doing a split zone flow. And he'll be going to take on the end man and the line scrimmage on the other side. And instead of squaring him up and really getting in there as a blocker,

he'll just like turn his head and throw his shoulder and i think that is the part where i agree with you that he doesn't trust his strength but there are other times when i watch him square up i watch him get his base i watch him get his hands underneath the armpits of where he needs to go and just hit and make the right hand placement and he blocks well and he makes impactful blocks and so I see those and maybe I'm a little bit more of a sucker for those and say give me that give me that kind of consistency let's get a little bit stronger at the NFL level and I think you could be a more reliable blocker as well as a really good difference making wide receiver so I had him at

number three I love what Dalton Kincaid brings to the game and I think the best football is still even yet to come for him. Whether you are a team that uses multi-tight ends, or even if you're a team that's just using one tight end, but you love to use him in the slot. I think that he could be that kind of a player for you. So that's why I had him at number three. I'm curious, who did you have at number four?

Or who did you have at number three? Because I feel like it's going to be the guy that I have at number four. I think we're on tucker craft here pretty comfortably yes so i'll let you go with tucker craft you got him at three i've got him at four so we're flipping spots once again yeah with tucker craft i just thought number one i love his size and strength i i watch him in the open field and this was somebody that they liked to get the ball in his hands he got banged up this year so he didn't have the same production and i want to pull up his production as i start this as well i'll i'll give you a second because i forgot i forgot to say south dakota state redshirt junior tight end tucker craft lines up at let me make sure i got the

measurables right six foot five 255 pounds so So a healthy young man, as Benjamin Solak used to say on lockdown NFL draft. But there you go. Hopefully that bought you a little bit of time. I wanted to make sure that we told people where he was from and what his measurables were. Thank you, Con, sir. That was perfect. So Tucker Kraft, he, you know, in the South Dakota state offense, he's that dude. This year he had 25 catches for 318 receiving yards on just 35

targets because like i said he was hurt he really uh missed most of the more than like the first half of the season he did catch three touchdowns over 100 of those yards were after contact of those 300 plus 25 out of those 25 catches 13 went for first downs so you pull up 2021 where you know he had a bigger season this dude was really impressive he had a 90.1 receiving grade from pff he had 65 catches on 84 targets for 770 receiving yards over 400 after the catch 220 after contact he caught six touchdowns he caught 41 first downs this dude was just a receiving machine and it's not the kind of receiving machine where you look at it and it looks like he's just dominating lower level competition i think this guy is going to translate

and you'll hear so much of a connection for obvious reasons to dallas goddard who went to the same school um and the same process they're going to have and kind of players they are. And I don't know if he's, I actually don't know if he's the same level of talent as Dallas Goddard. And what Goddard, I can definitively tell you my opinion. I don't think he is. I don't think so either because I think Goddard,

I don't think he's Goddard's level. I do not think he's Goddard's. I don't think so either. And I think the answer is not really, that's not an insult to craft it's like goddard's really freaking good so and goddard's tape at sdsu was hilarious it was man amongst boys hilarious what he was doing to this level of competition and craft's tape is good it's not it's not it's not goddard level so i didn't mean to interrupt you but that was no i was gonna say that anyways he's not goddard got her level so i didn't mean to interrupt you but that was no i

was gonna say that anyways he's not got her for me um no i'm glad you said it um i think he's a total beast after the catch i think he is somebody where you could draw up some of those kiddle kind of plays where you want to get him in space and get him running after the catch tight end screens work him up the seam i was really impressed with him as a receiver I just think he has physicality I think he has enough athleticism I think I think he'll test better than Kincaid um I really liked watching this guy I thought he was you don't okay um I think he's bigger like he is significantly more filled out I thought than a guy like kinkade and even laporta um i think he has an nfl body today i think he's going to be a solid run blocker i think you can trust him a

little bit in line even though the level of competition is going to be a huge jump and that's always one of those really hard things to read and i wanted to double check he's definitely going to is he going to the senior bowl i don't think there's an accepted... I don't think I saw him on there. Which is strange. I thought I only saw Musgrave, Davis Allen, and Kincaid. I wonder if he's still really beat up even after coming back. He's somebody I would love to see at the Senior Bowl, honestly. I don't want to make assumptions.

I would assume he's well worthy of an invite he's that level of a prospect i think he's going in the top 60 so yeah to sum it up trevor i was really high on this guy um i mean obviously landing spot will be huge for him and how you use him but i thought his physicality after the catches is not a unique weapon because the two guys coming up is how I would label that, but it's pretty dang good. Yeah, I would love to see him at an all-star event. Is he in the Shrine Bowl? Can you look that up?

I guess while I'm talking a little bit about him. Yeah, I will check that one. I'd be shocked. I didn't think that he was, but he's a redshirt junior, so I figured that he'd be eligible for both games. And that's an assumption I was making, you know to say about assuming he's a makes an asset of you and me um so the strength of his game i mean i think that you you you know okay all right well i he must not be eligible then combine baby let's see let's see the numbers at the combine that's what we want to see look he

he looks like he's playing at a different level you mentioned that you you don't feel as though he's just succeeding because he's playing at a lower level competition but when you find an nfl guy playing at lower level competition you want to see them dominate he absolutely does and he's just a dominant player he looks like a pro amongst guys who all due, are not going to be. And that's what you need to see, I think, out of this player, especially somebody who a lot of people think could be a day-two pick in this draft, which I agree. The frame supports in-line blocking.

And, Connor, I'll tell you, I don't know if you watch the Villanova game specifically, but he blocks his ass off in that Villanova game. Yeah, he destroys people. Yeah, I think that might have been his highest graded blocking performance if i recall correctly there were i was so i watched three games of him and the two games prior um i can't remember what they were off the top of my head i'll have to check it he was fine as a blocker it's not like he was super imposing as a blocker there were a couple reps or i was like yeah man you're letting these guys getting around you a little bit too easy

there are a couple websters like all right now you know lee blocking pinning guys able to create space and running lanes so there there were there was good and bad and then i threw on that villanova game and i'm like who insulted your mother before this game like it was like a completely different dominant smart kids blocking performance so um i i think that seeing that especially on his tape makes me go okay now we got something here as a guy who could be a full-time tight end as an inline guy slot guy whatever it is it's a good athlete for his skies for his size i mean they even scheme stuff up for him they're throwing him tight end screens because they want to get the ball in his hands so quickly the weaknesses i have about him are now i want to i want to preface it by saying

this a lot of guys will you know you'll watch wide receivers and then you'll watch tight ends afterwards and you go wow this guy is you know stiff that's just that's a tight end mold right you're carrying a lot more weight you're a lot bigger it's just tougher to do that now there is still difference between a guy who looks more flexible a guy who can really sink his hips a guy who's got really quick feet guy who could flip the hips very fast and change direction you still see that for some tight ends but on average it is quite a bit slower so you just have to keep that in mind even with that in mind i do feel like the routes for craft are not super refined right now. They're very rounded. It's almost kind of like he's just playing his own style out there.

But he can get away with it at that level. He can get away with it at that level. I don't think he's the athlete enough to be able to get away with that in the NFL. So then that worries me a little bit. Are you going to run routes that rounded and in the pros because if you are i don't know if you're an athlete enough to continue to have separation so then you're just you know the coverage is going to be a lot tighter you're gonna have to make a living out of contested catches which is okay i mean he's strong he's got the frame to do it but that ultimately

goes into projection for me so spark notes version of him i said he's a good all-around tight end who has a lot of the tools that you would want for a three down player at the position lack of flexibility and some drop issues for him are in his scouting report but overall this can be a starting tight end in the nfl and a player who i think will end up going in the top 60 which i think he's just good i think he's going to be a second-round pick. That's what I believe. I think he'll probably end up being a late second-round pick. So that was my projection. Yeah, I think so too.

It wouldn't even shock me if he fell to the third. I think one thing I wish he was a little better with, I wish he had great hands, and I thought he had average hands. Yeah, do you have seven drops? In 2021, he had seven drops. And you watch him, and some some are like you got to catch that and then some are like that's a lollipop throw that's he's reaching behind him you know how that level goes um so but i i thought he had average hands i when a guy is the criteria that

you just said right like i think a trey mcbride to bring up a recent example who just had a who just had his best game of the season by the way last week um yeah where would you rather have trey mcbride or tucker craft mcbride yeah i would too and where'd mcbride go second round yeah exactly which is why i think craft actually goes in the third um what was what would it make and then where did mcbride go did he go arizona i'm you know but i'm gonna guess what number i'm gonna say 53 it was later than we all expected what do you guess like it was it was the back end of the second round i think he went 50 53 55 55 you got it i know i remember i remember some really worthless things in life and forget a lot of really important things.

Incredible skill set. The James Bond of worthless information. So, yes, I would take McBride over him because, Trevor, I think they are very similar before and after the catch. But at the catch, I thought McBride was excellent. And I think Kraft is extremely average so i'm i kind of see him the same as you um i think i just like the ceiling more than kincaid can we can we start to have some real fun here sure two and one yes we we can get into two and one i have i've got to believe that our two and one are exactly the same here so uh who

you got at number two I'll let you I'll let you start it up Darnell Washington and I really liked Darnell Washington over the summer but I didn't even think this rise could happen and do you remember where you had him in the summer I don't. I just remember poking you in the ribs that Eric Gilbert was the third best tight end on his team. That's all I remember saying. And I remember screaming you saying, yeah, it's because Darnell Washington and Brock Bowers are the other two tight ends.

It was an excellent troll job that really had no merit. It's like somebody being like with the Golden State Warriors, if you were to be like, oh, Clay Thomas is like the third best scorer on his own team. Yeah, it's because Steph Curry and Kevin Durant are above him. You idiot. Oh, man. Steph Curry can't shoot.

They told me Steph Curry can't shoot. You know what? I think I liked Washington so much, can't shoot um they told me stephanie can't you you know what i think i i liked washington so much and this is a thing that you need to be very careful with in scouting first off the man is six foot seven 265 if you listen to the summary value you know plenty about him uh he had 26 catches this year 21 went for first downs 417 yards two touchdowns he didn't allow a pressure on his 28 pass blocking snaps and trevor there are matchups on tape that I watched against Gervin Dexter and BJ Ocelari.

Like this dude isn't just like pass blocking, like blitzing safety. He's pass blocking guys that are going in the top 50 of the draft. Like a tackle, like a freaking tackle. So I was like, whoa, this is where I wanted to go back and try to be careful as i come to a final eval and grade and where he should go part of the reason i loved him so much is that he's one of the most unique players i've ever evaluated there's just not guys we always

like not we but a lot of people always like to make the joke of, you know, like what if LeBron played basketball, right? Or like somebody that just has this unique size and strength profile that we just don't see consistently at the position. And Darnell Washington fits that model of he's 6'7". He's probably going to play at 260. He can run like the wind. He loves to block. He will block off the can run like the wind. He loves to block. He will block off the line, on the line, in the backfield.

He'll throw you out of bounds. I mean, he moves people like a tackle, but he's built like a lab-created tight end. And the reason why I don't know if he's a first-round player besides the position is that with tight end, you do need to have a plan. And Darnell Washington has never been the feature passing attack kind of guy. And you often need to be that to be a first-round tight end in a lot of front office molds. It's almost, this is like a dumb thing. If Darnell Washington went back into the first I'd

be like I love the player I don't know how I feel about the pick if Darnell Washington goes anywhere in the second round aka second selection is what I'm trying to say it's an A plus like I just absolutely adore it and I feel like that's kind of stupid at face value but that's something that just I kept thinking back to him is i don't think he's a luxury that's not what i'm trying to say but i think that you need to be a very specific kind of offensive coach to maximize taking a player this high because i think he's going in the top 40 selections and i just think there's not a lot of guys built like this that have the film that he does that can be your sixth offensive lineman.

I genuinely mean that, your sixth offensive lineman. But, oh, yeah, he can also smoke your linebacker up the scene. I do think there's a chance that he could be a back end of the first round guy. Oh, I do. I completely agree with you that in order for you to be a tight end who goes in the first round, you genuinely have to be somebody who you think you could build a passing attack around, right? I'm going to list off the tight ends that have gone in the first round

since the 2021 draft, okay? Kyle Pitts, receiving tight end. Kyle Pitts, receiving tight end. Noah Fant, receiving tight end. TJ Hockinson. Okay, they picked him at eight because they felt like he could be an all-around monster, but gave you receiving ability. You thought you could build an offense around him.

Hayden Hurst, receiving tight end. Dave Njoku, receiving tight end. Evan Ingram, receiving tight end. Hell, basically a wide receiver. OJ Howard, yes, they drafted him because of his blocking ability, but they also drafted him that high because they believe that the best is in front of them as a receiver and they could believe he'd be a tight end one. That's kind of where you're at with if Darnell Washington is going to go in the first round, it almost feels like the storyline has to be that of OJ Howard. And I'm not saying that they're the same prospect, but OJ Howard came into the NFL and came through the draft process, I guess I should say, as this guy is a beast of a blocker. This guy is another offensive lineman on the line of scrimmage. He's somebody who can really shore up the run game wherever he is, however he's aligned.

But then there were the questions of, okay, well, why didn't Alabama really use him as a receiver? And then there was the bowl game against Clemson when he had like a gajillion yards on like four catches and that massive yards after the catch play. And people just go, see, this is it. You could look what you can do with him. Darnell Washington doesn't have that moment. Right.

And so like Darnell Washington doesn't have that moment. I mean And so like Darnell Washington doesn't have that moment. I mean, the, the Oregon play. Yeah, that might be, that might be the one that everybody's mind goes to, but like without those couple of moments, I don't know if somebody is going to be able to convince themselves enough to take him in the first round. Maybe you do with one of those playoff caliber teams.

They're looking for those rare luxury picks at the backend. You're putting your hand. Do you have a do you have a team or a take or something? I have a question for you that I'm trying to figure out the answer. Does him playing on the same team with maybe the best, the most complete tight end prospect we're going to see Brock Bowers, who's not eligible. Impact that projection. Like if you put Darnell Washington on any other non-Georgia Notre Dame team, don't you go like, is that a fair excuse for him?

I don't know. I don't know if this is a hot take, but I don't think him playing behind Brock really, I don't know if this is a hot take, but like, I don't think him playing behind Brock Bowers actually hurts him that much because we, we'd be talking about the same strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he, maybe I'm not giving him enough credit.

Maybe he would get more production as a receiver if he was somewhere else and they were just forced feeding him all the time. But in my mind, the biggest asset that he brings to the game is still being that that sixth offensive lineman i have the exact same words written down on my scouting report and as a receiver i don't know it kind of felt like georgia emphasized him a lot as a receiver this year they didn't they didn't the year before and so going into this year i didn't have a lot of faith that they were going to really increase that role, but they kind of did.

And I don't know, is he getting, what was his final stat line for this year? It was 25 catches, 400 yards, 50% contested completion percentage, 17.8 threat percentage. I guess maybe like the numbers would have gone up a little bit, but would the averages have been that much higher? That's a good point. I don't know if they would be. Yeah, he's utilized. So, yeah, I feel like he was utilized plenty, but this is a unique player.

This is an extremely unique player. Background for anybody who doesn't know a lot about him, five-star tight end from Las Vegas, Nevada, chose Georgia over Bama, Florida, Tennessee, played defensive end and tight end in high school, as you would hope with a guy that's that big. Also noting that he started a power forward for the state championship basketball team um in the 3a class so uh also was the shot put guy in track and field want to make sure that i say that he my my spark notes for darnell washington rare athlete for a player of his size more of a

blocker than a receiver but he gives you plenty of impact in the receiving game when you utilize him in those moments also an incredibly impactful blocker in the pass game and the run game not somebody that you could shrug off in coverage a true unique player that should absolutely be a top 50 choice so 50 obviously you're going a little bit into the second round. That's what I think the range for him is that fringe first round, second round. If I'm a team, if I'm a team,

like, you know, if the Titans, you know, if the Titans offensive line didn't totally stink now, I would have loved for the Titans to draft them if they were going to make it be a playoff team. Right.

The Ravens, the Ravens are another team that you think of and you just go like, damn, that'd be, that'd be fantastic to get him there. Shoot, when did the Falcons pick at the top of the second round, right? Oh God, watch out. But I'm saying like,

if you get Kyle Pitts and you get Darnell Washington, Arthur Smith's your coach. Like Arthur Smith's gonna wanna run heavy multi-tight end stuff. All of a sudden, like you're running their brain. Can you imagine a world? I'm not saying this is right. Nobody come you're running their brain. Can you imagine a world? I'm not saying this is right.

Nobody come after me for this, but can you imagine a world in which the Atlanta Falcons draft B. John Robinson with their number nine overall pick and then draft Darnell Washington in the second round? Arthur Smith. He would never throw the ball. He would never throw the ball he would never throw the ball he'd never leave atlanta he'd just be in atlanta forever he'd die in atlanta i don't know he'd see he'd see 10 man boxes till the end of time and he'd welcome them he'd welcome them yeah he's still around the ball

oh man yeah it's fun to think about where he's gonna land uh darnell let us know in the comments what you guys think about darnell washington and some perfect places that you would love to see him land i would love to hear that from everybody michael mayer is uh is is both of our tight end ones am i not am i stealing your thunder there the notre dame tight end michael mayer go go go go where's number 87 uh they've been calling him baby Gronk for the last three years. Six foot four, 265 pounds is what they have him listed at. This is just a, he's just a fantastic tight end. He just understands the position so, so very well.

This past year had an elite 91.7 receiving grade. Also at an 82.0 blocking, run blocking grade specifically. 65.4 contested catches for as much work as he is getting with a 30.5 wide receiver usage. That's a really nice contested catch number for Michael Mayer. He's just so natural as a receiver. He understands the position so well. He gets route running. He gets soft spots in the zone.

He can set guys up. No, he's not the most fluid athlete in the world, right? And that's why we're not talking about this guy as a potential top 10 pick. And you're certainly reason to believe that he could be in the top 20 of this draft because I think he's going to be viewed as one of the most complete players. But he's not that rare kind of athlete that's going to bring it to you, right? I feel like the yards after catch ability for him is going to be very limited in the nfl i'm not so sure he's going to be a great separator at the nfl level either but he's got phenomenal hands he understands how to be a hands catcher fully

extending his catch radius he knows how to box guys out with his size like i said he gets uh finding the soft spots in zone coverage he knows how to manipulate defenders in certain ways but different i see him all the time do these shoulder shimmies and try to set people up with his shoulders just to put his foot in the ground and go the other direction now it's not as quick as some other tight ends for it might be but it's plenty adequate for him he's also an eraser in the run game man he'll definitely move people he's not quite darn el washington but he could certainly move people and so for that reason this is the tight end one in the class. Even without him being an elite athlete, he's the most reliable one that you got.

And if you need a player who is going to be a full-time starter for you, every list is going to start with Michael Mayer, I think. I'm with you all the way. He's a top 10 player for me. I had him seventh on my summer board. I know we had him high on our combined board on my summer board i know we had him high on our combined board i don't think he moves from there it definitely doesn't move down he's just great he's he does everything effectively and more i think he's a monster in the 8 to 15 yard range

i mean if you just need a safety blanket to lean on for first downs this is the guy and i think you can ask his ability to handle any role like if your slot receiver is out one week he could play the slot if your tackle is out one week you could park him next to a backup tackle and help that guy while still having him be effective wide receiver there's just he's worth the top 20 pick and there's going to be arguments over the whole positional value thing he's one of the better tight ends we're going to see for a really really long time i think he's going to be um i'm actually fascinated to watch not to get too off track to watch valued in dynasty because the tight end position is so grim in fantasy and the really good guys like Kelsey are getting older where like this is this could be the dude for five to six years. And it might happen very, very early on in his career, but it's tight end.

So you just you just wonder where is he going to go? How is he going to be used? Man, and the landing spots have changed so much right you pull up like tankathon and just talk about where mayor can go i mean green bay is interesting if they lose i have it up there at 16 if they lose green bay which i don't think they will but we'll see i really like green bay as a landing spot for him i mean hell i wouldn't be shocked if the texans considered him at 12 i really wouldn't they're just trying to get really good really good players in there he definitely should not do that but really you'd be against that the texans drafting michael mayer yeah they need way too much they need way too many other

things and it's talent and it's not even like a Michael Mayer thing. Like, I just, you need talent in both trenches so badly that I'm not using 12 on a tight end. So, no, I wouldn't be doing that. Okay. And Green Bay is a good landing spot for him. I don't think Detroit's going to do it. What about Jacksonville?

It just depends how much they like evan ingram because evan ingram's actually been giving them some good return on the creation it's true if they don't bring him back then certainly trevor lawrence to michael mayer could be uh could be could be money so i could definitely see that there i think they need more size out of their pass catchers but they don't need somebody to come in and play wide receiver because they have three good ones counting calvin ridley and then you let alvin you let evan inkrum walk who's really a true move tight end and you get more physical up front with michael mayer jacksonville would be my dream spot to be honest with you and then there's always the absolute pain in the ass of new england knocking at the door

which i know is a low-hanging fruit but But when you look at where they pick, and if they lose to Buffalo, and they're picking 15 to 18 or whatever it is, it's like, yeah, they're going to take Michael Mayer. We're not talking about that until we have to talk about it. I agree. Mayer's a great – yeah, go ahead. New York Giants, really good landing spot. Yeah, but how much do they believe in Bellinger?

I guess, like, Cody Bellinger probably shouldn't stop you from taking Michael Mayer. If a lot of the receivers... No, no, he's a tight end, too. I mean, that'd be a good guy. That'd all of a sudden be a really nice tight end if you got Bellinger and Mayer, because Bellinger's been playing good this year.

They need a receiver, though, I think, like, specifically wide receiver they do but if nobody's available you can't you can't create what might not exist that's my issue for the giants like the giants are making giants made the playoffs so what's i mean they'll be i i wonder the disparity of the talent of wide receiver where the giants pick towards the end of the first, middle and first round to the wide receivers that are there on day two. You know what I'm saying? Sure. Nice.

I mean, it'll be a fascinating debate. I can't wait to start to do these podcasts where we have the order set. We know exactly what it's going to be. And we get to talk about the team. So those are our top fives. I'll recap my five here. At number five, I had Luke Musgrave, the tight end from Oregon State. I had Tucker Kraft from South Dakota State at number four.

Dalton Kincaid from Utah at three. Darnell Washington at two. And Michael Mayer at number one. If you guys are wondering what the tiers might be for these players, I have Michael Mayer and Darnell Washington in tier one. I have both those guys in tier one. I've got Kincaid. I've got Tucker craft and I've got Luke Musgrave in tier two to round out my

top five. And then I have Sam Laporta in tier three right behind him i have kade stover from ohio state also in tier three and then at the end number eight i watched eight of these guys so i do want to get to a couple more of them but um davis allen from clemson i have him at number eight and i have him in tier four it's the the bottom tier that i have so far i didn't i didn't love davis allen uh sam shout out to sam he hit me up on instagram and he wanted us to watch davis allen and so um i got some eyes on him he's fine again he's a guy who's going to the senior bowl so i think that he has a chance to really stand out there i certainly looks the party six foot five

250 pounds he's experienced as an inline. He's got a decent amount of experience there. High contested catch percentage. I think he's contested, contested catch percentage, excuse me, was over 90%. Now he didn't have a ton of contested catch opportunities, but he reeled them in whenever he had that opportunity. So he's reliable in that regard. Only had three drops on 87 catchable passes, which is, which is good to see. So he's got good hands, but didn't think he was, I didn't think he was very dense when he was showing up in the run game

just didn't really seem to pack a punch he could get in front of guys you know he can get in the way of players he could block guys off but he wasn't holding on to blocks too long um sam was mentioned in that nc state game he was an eraser in the in the blocking game that was his best game that i watched for sure but the rest it, I wasn't super impressed with. And I just kind of think he's a middling athlete. So he wasn't really standing out to me as a blocker or a receiver. And if that's the case, you really start to get lost because there's a lot of tight ends that do come through every single year.

And I've got Allen as kind of a day three pick right now. And it's just almost like, hey, how does he do in interviews? How does he fit in your system? Do the coaches like him? If that's the the case that could be the difference between him being like an early day three guy uh midday three guys something like that so um that's what i thought of uh of davis allen from clemson but i wanted to make sure that i got my thoughts out there as well no doubt yeah my top five was sam laporta at five don't kinkade at four tucker crafted three darnell washington at two, Michael Mayer at one.

I would put Mayer in his own tier with Washington kind of creeping in. I would put Washington in his own tier at tier two. So Mayer tier one, Washington tier two. I would put Kraft and Kincaid in tier three, and then Laporta and Musgrave in tier four. And then it becomes a wide open pool of guys that I watched enough of to know for now at least pre-senior bowl and pre-combine that they weren't going to crack the top five definitely weren't going to crack the top four they're just in a different tier we talked about Will Mallory from Miami a lot over the summer I've watched Josh Wiley from

Cincinnati quite a bit because I thought he would declare last year so and these guys are all senior bowl kind of guys so and i agreed with your take on davis allen i didn't come away you know fully swayed one way or the other that the bottom line is you really got to be either a difference maker in one area or a true jack of all trades like for the next level to go in the top three rounds at tight end it's very hard it's very very hard otherwise you're going to get lost in the day three shuffle and it's not to take away like you look at what isaiah likely has been able to do in a pinch this year you look at where a lot of tight ends get drafted and what they turn into eventually even likely was clearly like what he brought to the game was plus receiving ability

it was just a question of like is this guy an all-around tight end because he's more of just a specialized guy but that's a guy that you see gets an opportunity breaks out it's tight end is you can you can make a decent nfl career out of being a rotational in-depth piece tight end because a lot of a lot of teams carry, you know, three tight ends because they're running a lot of different packages. Tight end guys can really fill in on both special teams units, punting and kickoffs. And a lot of these teams will even stash these tight ends

four or five deep when you get into practice squad players too. So tight ends can stick around for a long time. But again, if you don't have a trump card, if you will, if you don't have this like difference if you will if you don't have this like difference making ability as a run blocker uh or as a receiver it's hard to really separate yourself and you're probably just going to be a day three guy in the shuffle did you watch kate stover from ohio state i did not watch enough of him where i wrote him up but i what i do with guys like that is i mean and i'll admit if I was wrong, like if I don't

think from what I've seen on broadcast and what I talked to guys doing the areas or recruiting from an agency perspective, a lot of, you know, crowdsourcing, then I won't, I won't put enough time into them for the pre combine eval. I absolutely, when we do our final top fives or if I don't be top tens easily or final position rankings, then I'll do that. But it would just be a really big surprise to me if somebody of that level ended up in my top five.

So he's just a ball player. Okay. He's he's six foot six, 255 pounds. I did watch him. Listen to this. All right. Stover was.

So remember six foot six 255 pounds Stover was initially recruited to play linebacker at Ohio State he was a four-star linebacker recruit but he was moved to defensive end before the start of his freshman season he played in four games that year before redshirting that season Stover was then moved back to tight end during spring practice of 2020. He then returned back to linebacker during the 2020 season. Stover was then again moved back to tight end for his redshirt junior year. Caught five passes for 76 yards. And 2022 was actually his first full season as a tight end where he did not switch position. So this guy's played linebacker.

He's played defensive end and he's played tight end he is a he is and and let me tell you the physicality that you would want to see evident from a player who has lived in the trenches his entire career on both sides of the ball shows up man he loves to block he loves to get his face mask in there on dudes when he is blocking he he just loves to erase players he knows where defensive guys are coming from because he knows the techniques he knows how they've attacked the line of scrimmage when he gets the ball in his hands you know he's trying to lower the shoulder and break some tackles that way he's fun man he is a fun player he is a guy who i think is going to be around the nfl for a while if you have bounced around that many positions and played

that many positions you just love the game and you're just good at the game so whether he ends up being an impactful tight end or not like this dude's gonna be a potential special teamer at worst for years years i wonder if he gets the shrine invite the senior bowl list looks full he's not on the shrine roster right now he's a red shirt junior so i'm wondering oh okay so maybe he'll go back uh he does another reason he does have another year and i don't know if he okay i don't think he's not declaring but i watched him but i watched him i just watched you're you're an animal yeah all right well there we go uh three seasons of eligibility does he still have three seasons oh they counted 2022 so he has two seasons of eligibility after this year all right so he's probably not going but i watched it for fun and he was fun at least you had a good time

i had a good time doing i had a good time looking up the bio i had a good time watching the tape man it was uh it was fun to see him kind of bounce around everywhere and just learn that about him. Let us know what you guys think about the tight end class. Let us know what you think about the guys at the very top. If you think one, two, three tight ends are worth, take it to the first round or where you see this tight end class shaking up,

whether you think it's a depth class or whether you think it is pretty strong at the top. Let us know your rankings. Let us know your thoughts on our thoughts and then just your thoughts individually as well. We'd love to hear from you. If you're watching this on YouTube, best way to do that is in the YouTube comments right below.

You can let us know that. We're reading those all the time. Or you can hit us up on Twitter at Tampa Bay Trey, at Connor J. Rogers. You can do the same thing on Instagram where we're reading all those messages from you guys as well. Connor, you got anything before we get out of here? No, that's a wrap.

We will be back. For most people, it'll be first thing Monday morning. If you are a maniac, as well connor you got anything before we get out of here no that's a wrap we will be back for most people it'll be first thing monday morning if you are a maniac i think sometimes people get it in the middle of the night uh what matters most is we end the regular season oh man well um survive vegas my friend uh save travel if i survive vegas that safe travels back and uh you and we'll see that brick wall, and we'll hear those sirens of New Jersey's finest. That's the salute. Oh, man, I'm here for work, so my chances of making it back are better than normal. That's good.

Better than most. Better than most is what we want to hear. We'll be back with you guys on Monday, early Monday, whether Connor said, it's right at midnight or whenever you catch it to talk about everything that we saw in week 18 of the nfl season i got a feeling connor that the wednesday episode and the monday episode might bleed over a little bit now that the order is going to be finalized and that's what we get to talk about with a lot of these teams so it is going to be a jam-packed show on Monday.

Make sure you don't miss it. I'm Trevor Sikama. That's Connor Rogers. This has been the NFL Stock Exchange. We'll see you next time.