NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 141. Early Defensive Tackle Position Rankings For 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: January 27, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their updated defensive tackle position rankings (post-regular season) for the 2023 NFL Draft. The two talk about their rankings in the preseason, things that have changed since then, and give each their new Top 5 rankings for the position.

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast in this episode we are ranking interior defensive linemen for the 2023 NFL draft there have been a handful of interior guys that have littered first round mock drafts over the last couple of months we've got one guy who we've seen in the top five top three and a handful of other players that have been all throughout the first

round and we kind of get down to it put these guys under a microscope and tell you how many first rounders we actually think there could be from this class so we'll give you our rankings five to one but you know how this podcast goes we'll probably end up talking about six seven eight names to get you guys prepared for this interior defensive line class i'm trevor sycamore with me as always is connor rogers let's ring the bell welcome to the opening bell of the n Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sycamore. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you for the final time this week to rank interior defensive linemen. That's right. We're back to positional rankings for this episode. And we're hitting IDL.

You know there's a major player that we're going to be talking about at the very end of the podcast. What about the rest of the class, right? We've seen some first-round mocks littered with different interior defensive linemen. Connor and I put a lot of these guys under the microscope to tell you whether or not we think that those are appropriate spots whether maybe we should cool it on this d-line class a little bit connor how we feeling today my friend i'm good man a good i'm ready to round out this week with the interior d-line uh i think it'll be a different show than our other ranking shows i think this group i came away with more roles besides the bona fide superstar at the top which was very interesting

experience i think this is the group that you and i exchanged the most texts during watching it out of all the groups we usually you know stay silent so there's the surprise factor. I don't think the show needed that. Actually, no, I take that back. There were some surprises that compared to narratives or compared to what you see in mock drafts that we're going to get in on today's show because we were very honest on this show. So that was something I came away with

that we were going back and forth on where it's like, did you watch this game? Did you see that? I think that's the most interesting part of today's show compared to the others. There is one player specifically within this group that we watched that I need to know where you have them ranked. And like that,

that's the one that I'm looking forward to see seeing where you have the most, because you did before we hit record, you said, there is one guy who was very pleasantly surprising in this class. And I'm wondering if it's the player that I'm thinking about here. But you guys know the drill on how we do this. We'll go from five to one. We'll each go back and forth. Leave the suspense of who would be number one till the end.

It's Jalen Carter. But we will leave the suspense of the episode until the end but you guys know how we do this we'll also give you kind of who's right on the outside as well we'll probably be talking six seven eight different guys here in this class and giving you our thoughts just where we believe it is strongest and where we believe that this position group compares to the rest of what we've seen so far in the 2023 draft class. So, Connor, as always, I will give you the floor, my friend. Who is your number five interior defensive tackle? One of these days, I'm going to flip the script,

and I'm just going to kick it back to you like a serve, or like a return serve, but that day's not today. I'll just waste no time. We'll get right into it. Number five for me, and I'm going to start off with this, because I've gotten some messages on this, and this is a great call out by our listeners we'll always try to explain tiers going forward five and four are going to be in a tier for me um as are kind of two and three and then one is in his own so keep in mind that number five has another guy in front of him that's in the same tier number five is keanu benton uh for me the gigantic nose

tackle uh that will be at the senior bowl he played at Wisconsin he does line up a little bit all over the place but you know he's one of the rare guys in this class that can be a true nose tackle he's listed at 6'4 315 he looks bigger than that to me Trevor he really does maybe because of it he's huge he's just a mammoth of a human being. He's definitely all of that 6'4". I think he's going to play closer to 325, 320 at the NFL level. He had a pretty good season. Finished 2022 with four and a half sacks.

11 more quarterback hits, 11 hurries. And while you hear those numbers, you go, okay, that's okay. Keep in mind, that was with a 13.4% pass rush win rate rate so he made the most of his opportunities to rush the passer for a guy that was lined up on about 200 of his 416 d-line snaps were either at nose tackle or shade nose so either right off right in front of the center or right off the shoulder of the center for those listening at home that always wonder when you hear shade nose you're just bumping off a little bit from that typical zero alignment had 12 tackles for a loss and 21 total solo stops against the run so this dude gets after it in the run game he's a bit of a problem in the run game I wrote down wrecking

ball type mentality as an interior rusher he's got a strong club rip uh he can swim so i was pretty impressed at his size what he's able to do as a rusher i think that's because he's played a good amount of football honestly already for this wisconsin team he's had a lot of playing time over the years i'm going to double check that as we're sitting here right now to show just how many years he's had a significant role but you know this year he played all 12 games uh 2021 he started all 13 games the covid season he played seven games had five starts and then in 2019 since he got on campus he played in 13 games and had six starts so this dude's a really a four-year starter when you look at it at a position that when you come out of high school and they stick your ass right at the zero in the thick

of the absolute hell in the Big Ten. This guy's been doing it for a long time, and that's just very, very impressive in itself to me. I think it speaks to his character, his makeup, and the fact that he, you know, it was kind of sink or swim for him at Wisconsin right away, and he's held his own. And you hear how much he's played. He's still a young player. I think he's still going to be, he's still 21 years old right now. So this isn't a guy that's been hanging around college for a really long time. And I think he'll have a pretty nice senior bowl situation where he gets those one-on-ones where he can use his power and his surprising quickness.

I just wrote down some funny note for me. Moves well for a beefy player. I'm always surprised when you see a guy at that size that's a true nose for the most part and he's moving quite well. I wrote down he can eat double teams and he knows how to use his mass um to his advantage he understands how to two gap he could stick his weight around he can hold the point of attack I think with Benton you know I said all those nice things about him and still I came out of this kind of with that third roundish grade for him I didn't really jump out where I go. Okay. He's this every down player.

He's a rotational nose for me. And ideally you'd like them out there on early downs to stop the run. I'd like to see him get even stronger and goal line situations. That was a couple, couple of plays that surprised me where I watched him on goal line. I don't like to see him moved off the goal line. I don't know if he was trying to guess what direction the run game was going or something along and make the big play. He has a knack for the big play. And sometimes when guys like this

have a knack for the big play, they can get caught guessing the wrong way and they lose leverage or they get redirected. So that that happened to him a couple of times. But just a rock solid player, Trevor. He's not a dud against as a rusher. He's a decent pass rusher because of that power and pass rush prowess he's developed as a four year starter. But what you like about Benther, he's a decent pass rusher because of that power and pass rush prowess he's developed as a four-year starter. But what you like about Benton is he's just a true nose that you're going to stick him in on early downs. You're going to rotate. He's probably a guy that's going to play 40 to 45, maybe 50% of the snaps at the NFL level. But he snuck into my top five. So he was not in my top five, but I do think he's a pretty solid player. You mentioned saw in his recruiting profile and so for you to play

in the trenches way to right away in wisconsin i think that that's a nod that you uh that you need to make sure that you recognize i also believe that he was a captain this year so if you are noting those things in your scouting profile i think that that is important look he's just a he he is a pretty solid player and i was watching a couple of interviews of his um it's something that i like to do whenever i can i like to you know just see what a guy was going to work on this year some of the things that were his goals because specifically he mentioned pass rush moves really something that he wanted to work on going into this year getting in the backfield a little bit

more and i thought you saw a better pass rusher this year no doubt about it he definitely put some work in there and he i noticed this now i want to give him credit for it because other players i would see them try moves that they can't pull off and sometimes you you look at it as a negative like man you don't know what you're doing in in the pass rush game you don't know your strengths and weaknesses i want to find out for benton right i think that he was honestly experimenting i i think that he went into this year saying i want to become a much better pass rusher as he was going out there he was trying some stuff uh i watched him try a couple of spin moves and though a lot of them didn't hit you know like i i can at least appreciate that he's trying to get better with it so i i do feel like most of what he is going to be the nfl

is going to be a strength guy as a nose tackle, just because of the sheer size six foot four, about 315, 320 pounds. So I do think that he's pretty solid in that regard. Maybe he is going to get a lot better in the pass rush profile area of his game. Maybe he is going to become more refined. And even if he hones it down to maybe only a couple of different moves, you know, a long arm, of course, a bull rush, a push, pull a swim, move, whatever from that zero technique spot if he can get those down then all of a sudden you've got a really solid run defender

who on obvious passing situations maybe you don't have to sell them out maybe you can keep them on the field and make his presence known with with how big he is so he didn't make my top five but i am glad that you gave him a nod there because i do think that he's a solid player and to be honest solid player is good in this class like there are a couple of other guys that i have there are a couple of guys that i have ranked ahead of him simply because of potential but there are even players that i have ranked ahead of him that i will fully admit have a lower floor than keanu benton does and if you are a team that is picking in the like you said i think the third round's a nice spot for him right somewhere in the middle or end of day two and you're like we just need a good interior guy like we need a good nose tackle draft you are

drafting this guy even over some of the players that i think that i i might have ranked ahead of him right now so i'm glad that you kind of mentioned him that way and that's actually a good segue into who i have as number five i have byron young and i don't know if i'm just a sucker for people who are named byron young in this class because i also can I clarify something you I thought you really liked the Tennessee Byron Young I'm not correct right you're okay cool I want to make sure I want to make sure I've been thinking you like the other Byron Young that much this whole time and we were thinking of two totally different people but please go on no so I had

Byron Young as edge six in uh in in the edge rankings and uh I have Byron Young as edge six in the edge rankings. And I have Byron Young, the defensive lineman, who, by the way, they are both at the Senior Bowl, and they are both on the same team. Oh, lovely. So they are on the same defensive line. You're obviously going to know which one's which because one of them is going to wear 47

and the other one's going to wear six. One of them is going to have a Tennessee helmet on. The other one's going to have an Alabama helmet on. But I do just think that that is hilarious. So Byron Young, measurements here, 6'3", 292 pounds, very experienced guy. He has started 25 out of 52 games that he has played in throughout his Alabama career. He's been another player who's been consistently out there in the lineup obviously much more of a starter over the last couple of seasons but 52 games because Bama's playing a lot of extra games right they're playing

the SEC championship they're playing in the college football playoffs so you get a couple of extra games uh throughout the year so 52 total games that he's played over the last four years he is a senior um watched a handful of games of them and I think that he is just a he is a good versatile player he can play anywhere from a three technique to a five technique right the six foot three 292 pounds i mean that's kind of a tweener right i mean like i think that some people would be like okay well is he really big enough to play in the interior i think he he is. And I think that you could play him at three tech. You could play him at five tech. You could play him inside.

You could play him in odd fronts as well. You could play him as a defensive end in odd fronts. Because, Connor, I just think this dude is so solid. The first thing that I noticed about Byron Young is that the hand placement is great. That popped out to me right away. That when this guy got down in his stance he can he consistently had fantastic pad level was able to get up and out and stay

underneath the offensive tackle and his hands were going exactly where they needed to go if he was trying to hit a different shoulder one of the hands was going straight out on the arm or straight under the shoulder pad and the other hand was going right into the chest right under the armpit on the other side he was totally controlling those guys as he was angling them if he was going with a straight bull rush boom those hands would fire quickly inside but it's just getting right under the armpit he's got total control he can easily push pull those dudes and manipulate them throw them to the side to disengage i felt like the hand placement was i I mean, shoot, I saw him, you know, long arm a couple of times. I saw him do a club rip a handful of times. It's a move that he liked to go to a lot. And so I just always felt like the

experience of Byron Young showed up consistently in how he attacked the line of scrimmage and got into the backfield. He's not the twitchiest guy in the world. No, I mean, like, it's not like this guy's going to be, you watch some of these premier pass rushers, some of these Uber athletes that we have in this class on the interior, and no, he's not going to stand up in that regard. But I think that he's a fantastic run defender. And let me tell you this. He is 292 pounds.

Might be, like, let's just say played at 290 this year. Maybe played 295 whatever he defends the run and can go up against double teams better than guys i watched in this class that are 20 30 pounds heavier than absolutely and i think that that totally totally matters though backfield production when it came to passing downs wasn't his forte he is a player who is very useful on those obvious passing situations I noticed that Alabama loved to have because his his first step explosiveness isn't bad it's actually pretty good he's just not super twitched up after that when it comes to changing direction and hitting different moves but I'll tell you a way that I

loved how Alabama used him is they would slant him one way or the other across the line of scrimmage, and he would take out two offensive tackles. He'd take out the guy in front of him, and he'd take out the guy that he is slanting to going straight into his side. You often have a looper coming right after that, whether it was Will Anderson, Dallas Turner, DJ Dale, whoever it was. They would have guys loop around him, and he was fantastic as a crashing player on those stunts and twists. So I love to see that from him. I think that that's totally valuable. And I just really love this play. around him and he was fantastic as a crashing player on those stunts and twists so i i love to see that from him i think that that's totally valuable and um i just really loved his play i thought that he was super solid i thought that he was even more solid of course than uh than keanu benton who i have a little bit lower than him on the rankings but that's just that's that's

kind of how i evaluated byron young i just thought he was a really great player his experience um the type of guy that he is allows you to play him in even or odd fronts anywhere from a three technique to a five technique like i was said like i was saying and um i'm curious did he make your top five or was he just outside of it or was he for you he was number six okay he was number six and you know what you nailed it where you look at him and go, I know what I'm getting. And I like that in this class. Like when these guys get picked, I'll have a lot of risk concern with guys ranked ahead of Byron Young. I feel like I know exactly what Byron Young is.

I mean, the first thing I wrote down was the same as you with the hand usage. He's just a junkyard dog, right? Like he's just in the thick of it. He's fighting he's working through every rep he doesn't get moved off the ball he's got that Alabama strength that Alabama weight room strength um you know I I think he's pretty filled out so he's probably going to be this interesting 290 295 pound player but when you are that savvy with your hands and you have that work ethic throughout the rep that he has he's gonna be fine so i mean no crazy argument for me here of you having him at number five which leads me to number four and four and three very interesting players number four for me was siaki um siaki ika who i loved

i loved over summer loved him over summer he i honestly i'll start this off with this didn't think he was the same player this year or didn't take the step i was hoping for him to take. I don't know if there's reasons that that happened. Was he playing through injury? Did I was the focus not there? I don't know. And the flashes still exist. There's still plays where he will literally spin the guard around and redirect the running back or their place where he explodes into the backfield or i mean this is a 355 pound human

that legitimately has the quickness and the burst and the feet to rush the passer what drove me nuts here trevor with eco who i still believe in by the way i still have a late second round grade on him i have no problem with the team taking him in the top 60 and really squeezing out that potential where he could be a pass rushing nose and those are guys that are worth the risk because here's the thing with ika that started to drive me nuts and it'll it'll drive me even more nuts with the next guy his down-to-down consistency against the run i don't understand, I don't understand. I really don't understand. There are plays where he's there and he's like,

I don't care if three of you are coming. You're not moving me. I'm blowing this play up. There are also a lot of plays where he gets redirected or blown off the ball. And when you're 355 pounds and that athletic, and I've already seen you, I've already seen you have a great redshirt sophomore year

for a great Baylor defense. What's going on? It just kind of surprised me. I think I was really, really shocked by this one, and I'm still believing in the potential of Ika. I'm still believing in the traits that he possesses. But if I was a GM, this guy would be on the top five in my notebook of, I have to interview him and I have to sit down and I have questions that

matter so much. And this isn't me making accusations. I'm not saying he doesn't care about football or didn't work hard, but I would be going into Baylor. I'd be talking into every to every member of that coaching staff, the weight room staff, I'd be sitting down with Ika and I'd want to know why is a guy that's 355 pounds has the movement ability of a guy that's 250 pounds, not playing consistent, especially against the run on a down by down basis.

That is way too much talent for him to be number four on this list. So still buying and still believing in Ika, but understand that when you walk away from the tape, there's legitimate concerns all over the place. I just was pretty, I was very shocked by the lack of consistency. Yeah. So I also have Ika at four.

Okay. So we're similar there. I think. Did that surprise you? Because he felt like, I was going into this and I was like, he's going to at least be number three for me. He could be two, but that's a long shot and then i walked away and i'm like i i don't get it i don't understand well i was already so i i liked him when we were going through summer scouting

i think you liked him a little bit more than i did but i but i understood why you liked him because when you get a guy who is that big physically who can move the way that he does that's that's pretty special i mean like this dude will push pull you he'll swim move you he'll i mean he will burst between the gaps of centers of guards right i mean like he's got really good moving skills but something that i've definitely learned over the years of scouting is you still have to have the baseline especially for defensive line play that's why i'm just gonna say spoiler mazzy smith's not on this list for me same here brother my goodness mazzy smith's a lot lower and i don't care what your three cone is if you can't

play consistently that's the thing these these guys did not play nearly as consistently especially against the run is what we wanted to right right? See Aki is six foot four, 355 pounds and his run defense grades over the last three seasons, even going back to his final season, when he was at LSU, 64.8, 66.0, 69.1.

You're six foot four, 355 pounds. You play nose tackle. You, you, he is, he has never had a run defense grade above 70 in his entire career and now the pass rush grades right last year he had a pass rush

grade of an 85.7 this year he had a 76.2 uh the last year at LSU he had a 75.9 he has always been a really great pass rusher but at this point you just need to accept what Siaki Ika is. He is a finesse nose tackle. And then at that point, like, are you fine with a 6'4", 355-pound nose tackle being a finesse player? Because he didn't hold up against double teams as consistently well as I thought he was going to. Heck, he was even getting moved a little bit when it was one-on-one sometimes

if the center was able to get under him. You know, if he was going to try to shoot a gap and the center of the guard caught him and then all of a sudden he was getting washed a little bit and it's like, man, 355. So I like, I still like Siaki Ika. Like I said, the swim move can be absolutely devastating. You know, when he will get up and out of his stance

and he will, you know, do that little shimmy shake on you. Sometimes the offensive tackles, they go to punch him and he has you know do that little shimmy shake on you sometimes the offensive tackles they go to punch him and he has a great reaction time of being able to just boom swipe the hand and get over swim move there it is all of a sudden he's in the backfield if you need a big man who gives you backfield production he can do it but you just got to understand that this might not be a full-time player if you can't get that anchor ability from especially if you're starting in the middle of that defense. It's too important. Whether you're in an odd front, even front,

I don't think it really matters. You got to be able to defend a run, hold the line of scrimmage a little bit better than what we saw from Siaki Ika. The other thing that I want to mention is the arm length. I think the arm length's an issue, man. Because even when he would hit that swim move fantastically even when he would maintain that leverage get his hands exactly where they need to be extend them a

little bit and try to hit a center or guard with a little push pull and throw him to the side his hands his arms aren't long enough to totally cleanly discard these guys and whether you want to say it's a hold or not, that's fine. But I'm telling you, it happened a lot on film and they didn't get called for it. Those offensive linemen, they're still going to hook you a little bit. They're still going to keep their arm in there. They're still going to keep you from getting into the backfield.

And that's because he does not have the ability to get out of his stance, put his hands where they need to in the offensive lineman's chest, extend those arms and then rip those guys to the side. It's the length between that is not long enough for where the offensive lineman cannot recover. And also just get a hand in there while they're being kind of thrown to the side and almost like grab you a little bit. And sure it's a hold,

it's a hook, but they didn't call it that often and so then all of a sudden a lot of these moves that you're doing to get in the backfield they're neutralized because you can't get that separation with your arm so i think he's a little bit physically limited with the arm length and for whatever reason he just did not hold up to the point of attack the way that you wanted to now it sounds like we're really bashing him here, but the things that he does do well are very noticeable. You don't get 6'4", 355-pound guys that have the quick twitch that he does getting out of the stance.

And if you could just get some more strength out of him, if you could hold the point of attack better, then you got yourself a damn good defensive lineman. But the floor with Ika is lower than I wished it was when you look at his measurables. And I think that that was my takeaway there with him. Yeah, his best five plays will be not as impressive, but very impressive like Jalen Carter's would, right?

Ika's best five plays is probably, if you just did that exercise of give me the best five of every every defensive he'd be number two in his class he'd be two yeah he'd be two behind like honestly hands down i actually don't think it'd be close i mean mazzy's probably the only other one who's there i take that back i take that back but still yes because you know we call him lyman he's not the only other guy there's no guy, yes, because you know what we call offensive linemen? He's not the only other guy. There's not a guy who's in there.

You know what we call offensive linemen dancing bears when they have great feet? Ika's like a dancing T-Rex. He does so much with his feet and hips, but he's got these little arms that just, like you said, it really does limit him. So that'll be something he has to make up for, but really just leverage and overall strength. And I just wonder sometimes does the green light turn on differently for guys when they get the chance to rush? Because that's what it looked like when watching him play.

Like when I think of the best nose tackles I've watched in the NFL, if a team is in freaking 22 personnel, right? They got the same attitude as when they're in empty. They don't care. They're just going to absolutely whoop the shit out of whoever's in front of them. And with Ika, I felt like when he had the chance to pin his ears back in rush, he was a madman more often than not. When he had to do the dirty work against the run,

it was more 50 50 60 40 of him doing it and that's not good enough it's just not good enough so i want to see more out of him but still a player that i think has way too much potential which brings me to number three because this is this is the pinnacle of that example to me it's brian brazee yeah brian brazee is number three on this list. Now, I want to be careful here, because this is one I've spent a lot of time on and thought about a lot. Brzee finished in 2022 with three and a half sacks,

four more quarterback hits, 17 hurries in 10 games. He had a pass rush win rate of 14.5%, which is not a bad metric at all for an interior defensive line, a guy that also kicks out wide. Like you texted me a bad metric at all for an interior defensive line a guy that also kicks out wide like you you texted me trevor at you know the end of the season they started to have him rush off the edge a little bit more play five tech um maybe try to get him going with brazil it's a complicated case right this is a former number one overall recruit in the 2020 class he is six foot five 300 pounds and just the movement abilities is very very impressive he can move for a six five 300 pounder i mean like a basketball player out there

really he really can and he's had such an interesting road throughout college where he's never blossomed into a superstar yeah he's been a good player honestly he's been a good player he's not blossomed into a superstar like everybody assumed he a good player honestly he's been a good player he's not blossomed into a superstar like everybody assumed he would tore his acl in 2021 and this is what i want to lead in with this year's film as a caveat this dude's 15 year old sister passed away from brain cancer in late september during the season and i can't even wrap my head around playing college football being viewed as one of the premier players in the country and it felt very sudden too i know she was at a game in the beginning of the season where the clemson team even you know honored her introduced her

and then obviously things unfortunately horribly took a turn. And she passes away in September from a horrific disease that no human being deserves. And I want to be careful evaluating Brzee because I just don't know how anyone can function in their job with that in the middle of their showcase, we'll call it. I mean, this is a guy I watched over summer and i'll read my summer notes first before this season happened combination of quickness and power is in a pretty unique tier a total junkyard dog against the run he's more than willing to do dirty work he's a scheme diverse than athletic build for multiple alignments up front and then this year i watch him he could still rush the passer especially for a big man. He's very active. He plays hard.

He'll have a tough rep where he loses leverage and strength, and then he'll have a rep where he makes you look foolish because he's pretty flexible at that size, and he has a swim move, and he can even turn a little bit. Trevor, this is the thing that has me hung up on why I could not. I don't think I could take him in the first round right now. I don't, I don't know if I did take him in the first round. And that's a big movement for me. Cause this is somebody I thought would be a pretty locked top 15 selection. You would have to kind of put this year on that. He just had a lot going on. When you turn on the tape against Tennessee, a lot of Darnell, right. And Notre

Dame who has pros on that offensive line. They have a tackle that's going to be an absolute bona fide superstar blue chipper in 2024. They have a center in Jarrett Patterson. Dude, he got destroyed. He got freaking destroyed against the run. There's a couple plays against Darnell Wright where he gets bullied almost off the screen and into the dirt and Darnell Wright can just land

on top of him and it just shocked me it just shocked me to that lack of overall strength in the run game and bullying in the run game and leverage in the run game pad level in the run game it was and he's not a polished pass rusher where I look at it because you could have a guy that's just a unique gifted rusher and you go, he's going to figure it out because there's a couple of things we could teach with his hands. We think he's going to get stronger in his lower half. We think these college lines, they throw these guys all the way from the seven to the zero. They move them around like it's a game of chess. And I don't think that does them much favors, to be honest, at the college level. It's hard for them to learn an alignment and how to rush work a tackle all game work a guard all

game use your leverage and strength and your lower body against the center and push back against their anchor so i don't think that does them a lot of favors but brazil has significant issues against the run against guys that are going to play at the NFL level. And when you get to the NFL level, those guys are better than these guys that are projected to get drafted to the NFL level. So I, this is a player that you and I have texted a lot about. I think we're officially in the territory where Rosie is more in the real

world, a fringe round one player than the guy that you read everywhere as a top 10 pick. And I feel awful what he went through this season i do lay that caveat in there but there is a football aspect of this that is very real yeah look i'm i'm glad that you said um that at the beginning because i i would echo that as well. Going through a family tragedy, we often forget that these guys are beyond the tape that we watch.

And that is the part of, you and I have talked about that before on this show, that is the part of scouting evaluation that actually means the most because it goes into character, it goes into work ethic, it goes into how quickly or even if you will achieve your full potential and there's also a lot of things that happen off the field that go into

your production that might be able to hamper or help you know like sometimes it's both ways and i'm glad that you that you mentioned uh what brazee went through because I completely agree with you. His tape's rough. I mean, you mentioned the Notre Dame and the Tennessee games. You throw in the Florida State game too, and I don't know a lot about the interior offensive lineman for Florida State. I know it's a good team. I know they're going to be good next year,

so maybe it's guys that are going to be playing in the league, but whether they're going to play in the league soon or not, he got worked. He got worked against florida state he's getting carried across the offensive line he's getting blown off the ball and i think a lot of the highlights that you've that you're going to see a brazee throughout the nfl draft process are against unc that unc game at the end of the year he's not even playing interior defensive tackle he's playing edge and i think they're playing him out at edge because of the year he's not even playing interior defensive tackle he's playing edge and i think they're playing him out at edge because of how much of a liability and how much of a non-factor

brazee was at interior d line now the things that he does well he moves extremely well for a six foot five three hundred pound guy you know when he was playing across from guards or centers he could get across the face and he could one gap really well like those are things that you definitely notice on tape the hands they're active and fast all of that is there but he didn't have the pass rush moves he feels like he's a little high-waisted there's not a ton of weight on the lower body for him compared to the rest of his body and so he's high waist he doesn't have a lot of sand in the pants if you will uh he plays a little bit high because of it the hand placement is all over the place even though

the hands are active the hands are not accurate to where they need to go not only for run defense but also for any type of pass rush moves any swipes any rips any anything that he was going for really i just felt like he was very inconsistent with his hand usage and a lot of those highlights that you're going to see against unc he's going up against the right tackle that's spencer roland and i don't mean to disrespect spencer roland but he's a grad transfer from har against UNC he's going up against their right tackle that's Spencer Rowland and I don't mean to disrespect Spencer Rowland but he's a grad transfer from Harvard right he's not somebody who I think is going to be starting it left to right tackle in the NFL brains over brawn brains so it was instead Brazee just using his unique I guess speed and size on the edge one-on-one to win in those situations because he was not able to win

as an interior player and i even worry about some of him as an interior player beyond what might have been the things that he's dealt with this season right like i said i think he's a little high-waisted i think he plays high i think is uh it's hard for him to get his butt down he just doesn't have that lower body strength where he could really anchor against not just double teams but like sometimes he's getting carried by like Jared Patterson from, from Notre Dame their center. Like he was handling Brzee. I felt like pretty easily in that game. So it's just really tough for me to watch Brzee and think that he is going to

be an impact player. This is somebody who, if you want to take a chance on him at the back end of the first round, fine. I think a lot of that would go into kind of like what you said. You got to sit down with him. You got to understand where he's coming from. You got to really get down to why did the tape look like the way that it did?

And you know what? If, if, if factors off the field went into it, that's okay. It's totally okay. It's totally understandable. You just got to know that

because I don't think you're getting an impactful player year one in the NFL. I think year two is probably the very first year that you're really going to get something out of him. And honestly, I think he's a year three, year four of a rookie contract guy. Now, if you believe in him enough and you want to get that fifth year out of him, you could draft him at the back end of the first round. But his tape this year did not get really anywhere close to a first round grade for me he's more of like a mid-round third round film grade for me of what i saw but there's plenty of reason to believe that he has a lot more potential like i said a lot of the things of a pass rush profile that i would have liked to see from him technically can be fixed can be refined but i think he's got to work on the body a little bit.

He's got to work on his discipline. He's got to get better in the run in run defense. If you want to make the most out of that athleticism that people are going to talk about on the timeline, James scouting reports and things like that. So we saw Brian Brzee pretty similarly. And this is a guy who, when we had watched the flashes of him before, when we watched him over the summer, we thought that it was going to be top 10, top 15 potential. And as of right now, I can't see that anymore. I just can't see it with him. And of course, all of these other guys as well. I think that goes without saying, but it's just, it's,

it's a tough situation when you look at his, his time in Clemson and you go, this was a former number one, overall recruit in the country who has torn his ACL, who had a kidney issues this year that he missed time for that. He's obviously had a family tragedy that he's had to go through. And it's like, man, how do you expect the guy to get better? And maybe, you know, after really sitting down and understanding his situation, you say, man, the best is yet to come for this kid.

It's all right. We're drafting him in the first round. We're getting that extra fifth year deal. But I just wanted to kind of lay it all out there for everybody watching this podcast and listening to this podcast. There's going to be a ton of talk about Brian Brzezee hopefully we gave it some good context there yes the film the film was not good but there is still reason to believe that the best could be ahead of him not just because you believe everybody can get better but because of the full context to kind

of what he's been through both injury wise and with his family so that was that was brian brazee to me i agree with you um i've got him at number three here in this class who do you got at number two all right so the surprise um can i just say can i just say that i'm pissed that i'm pissed that we are releasing this episode after mel kuiper put out his mock draft because now's going to look like we're just copying Mel. I'm glad you said it. I was bringing up Mel at some point of the show. Number one, shout out to Mel, who takes a lot of crap all the time and is like the OG of OGs of this industry.

True. Let me give Mel his flowers this year. And I'll disagree with any analyst out there. Mel has had plenty of misses over the years. It happens to all of us. I've noticed Mel this year. And when Mel speaks, he's Mel Kuyper. He's a huge audience.

It matters a lot. I remember Mel was out front when Michael Penix had a good season. And no other analyst I saw besides this show was talking about Michael Penix. Mel liked Jared Verse, which you know has tugs on my heartstrings. Shout out to the Great Danes. And Mel had the conviction to put frigging Kalajikantse at number 10 overall in his mock draft. He's a fun football player, man. He's a fun football player. man. He's a fun football player.

It's IDL week for us. And I tweeted, Tyler Browning does a great job posting clips. And I tweeted over one of his Kansi clips. You know, what I thought of Kansi because I watched him this week for this show. And I think it was the same day Mel dropped

that mock draft. And I'm like, man, I loved Kalaja Kansey. But you steal a show and you have him number 10 overall. I don't know if I'm there yet. I don't know if I have him going 10th overall. But Trevor, let's get into this player who, the tape's awesome. The tape is awesome. This is a redshirt junior.

He's listed six foot, 280 pounds. So let's call it what it is. He's going to be fighting that fight that guys like Grady Jarrett have fought, not bringing up Aaron Donald. But he had to fight that fight. Aaron Donald wasn't a top-five pick. I remember Aaron Donald was no lock to go top 15. He had to fight that fight.

Even Sheldon Rankins, who... Let me look even Sheldon Rankin's who let me look at Sheldon Rankin's height from the combine 6'1 Sheldon Rankin's 6'1 there you go same same thing there you go so these are guys that are obviously first round talents Grady Jarrett played up to being a first round talent didn't go in the first round Aaron Donald and Sheldon Rankin's event Aaron Donald's had one of the best NFL careers Aaron Donald and Sheldon Rankin have had, Aaron Donald's had one of the best NFL careers of all time. Sheldon Rankin's been a really good player for a long time. And Klaju Kansi's going to have to fight that because he's probably six feet tall.

He's probably going to come in at the combine around 280, 285, whatever he could do. But all that matters is this dude is a pass-rushing mammoth. Mammoth. He's a mammoth. He's a mammoth. He's a wild man. He's a wild man. He has done some of the craziest shit I have ever seen from interior defensive line.

There's a play. And once again, we can't tweet out all 22 and I went and found the broadcast of it and it didn't do it justice. So I kept it in my pocket. There was a play and I get it again. It's against Rhode Island island but he also dominates really good teams so that's not the point where trevor he does like a ufc jump and swipe instead

of the superman punch he jumps and swipes kills the running back into the quarterback and i'm like that is one of the craziest plays i have ever seen from an interior defensive lineman prospect. Two-year starter, back-to-back seven-sack seasons. He finished this season with seven sacks, nine more quarterback hits, 30 hurries. He had a pass rush win rate of 22.7%. Yeah, that's good. God levels from the interior.

It's good. Twitchy, agile, active hands uh it's very hard to keep this man blocked he also flashes some bull rush power despite playing at 280 i think it's kind of the the you know the art of war aspect right the mental warfare with him i think you see him if you're a big hulking offensive lineman you go all right little man you know i got probably 40 pounds on you three to five inches my arms are longer everything about me is bigger all the way from my pads down to whatever you want to say hey yo and you think he's gonna try to work around you shoot gaps play small and he'll surprise you by getting his hands inside you and moving you so i like the

mental aspect of this dude's game his explosiveness off the ball allows him to dictate almost every rush every time the ball is snapped he's in control he's either two-way go even if he's he's just trying to on a stunt and twist even if he's trying to work the edge. I've seen him stand up rush. That was another thing I wrote in here. He has the versatility to rush as a stand-up guy on passing downs. He's like, all right, get your ass out there to the seven or the five. Stand up, full speed ahead. I thought he garnered a ton of respect from other teams.

He saw a ton of double teams. You'll go 10 snaps in a row of this guy having a garden center on him kalijah can't see man he he's explosive against the run he's not a guy he's not going to be for everyone let me say it that way right i think a four three pin your ears back and go get off the ball scheme rush first think later and when i say that i mean rush first you're not reading reacting and containing and controlling two gaps and all that you know more that's more of the usually belichick brian flores guys like that that have done those kinds of defenses this is a four three you put this dude in san francisco scheme the new york jets scheme seattle scheme i think the eagles and you just

let him go he's gonna clean up at the nfl level i was blown away blown away by his tape you know what uh i was about to say made me mad it didn't actually make me mad but i was like oh man i was thinking about kalygia and when mel put him at 10 of the eagles in his mock i was like that's just i mean that's egregious it's erroneous on all accounts and then i was and i was thinking about kija, and I was thinking about his skill set, and I was thinking about exactly what you just said. And I was like, yeah, what you really need is you need him to go to an offense, or you need him to go to D-line that's got a really dominant nose, right?

A really dominant nose tackle to where Kalija can be one-on-one. And I was like, you know what team would be perfect? Oh. The Eagles, because they have jordan davis he nailed it he nailed it now i would like kalygia can't see at 32 i agree more than 10 what 31 yeah well sorry yeah 31 the forfeited pick whatever it is whatever it is i agree with you completely when you snap the football this young man is on your ass i i was i was laughing at a couple of these plays because the center would snap the football and then as he is putting his hand in his head up, Cancy is already not just like up in his shit, but like already like hand fighting the chest and where his arms are to where the center's like, hold on, this is not supposed to happen this fast. And then all of a sudden, like Cancy's hitting a swim, move on.

I'm getting underneath the arm, whatever. Boom. He's in the backfield. And he would do that with guards. He would do that with centers. He would do that with everybody. You mentioned it. He's six foot tall, 100, or 100. He is six feet tall, 280, 285 pounds. But it is hard to think that if you had a defensive lineman, a three-tech defensive lineman

that is this size, that they could do better than what Kalai Jekansi does. He is as good as a of a small pass rushing defensive tackle as you are going to find the explosiveness is there the motor is relentless the bull rush is fantastic the leverage is always on point he hits the swim move he hits the push pull he does all of that stuff he will hit a spin move on you he'll do wwe moves apparently and look he will hold his own against single blocks if you come at him in the run game he will hold his own

now of course if you start double teaming him if he's in the middle of a duo yeah he's gonna get knocked back a little bit he's 200 he's 280 pounds it's just gonna happen that's one of those things where you just have to accept it he is a a small defensive tackle, but I will say it again, for small defensive tackles, it is hard to think they could play that position better than Clyde Jekansi does. The violence, the quickness, the relentlessness, it is all there for this dude.

He is consistently in the backfield. You mentioned the hurries. He also had 14 and a half tackles for loss. And I believe that's the second year in a row that he has had back-to-back double-digit tackles for loss. It just shows you what kind of a backfield producer this guy is. And that really, really matters in this class.

Because even if you take the potential of Brian Brzee, of Siaki Ika, of Mazzie Smithith of gervin dexter of whoever you want they ain't getting in the backfield like this dude is not even in their best right no right not even at their best are they getting in the back this young man lives in the backfield i i have this theory that especially when it comes to goal line and short yardage backs when you score touchdowns on offense when when it is just second nature to you that yeah this is what we do when we get into the red zone when we get to the goal line they hand me the ball and i get across the line scrimmage and i score there is something mentally to that you just expect to score it's not oh i'm gonna take the first contact

that i see at the line of scrimmage and i'm gonna you know try my best to get as many yards as i can no no no we score i get into the end zone this isn't special this is the standard this is what happens when we get down here and i and i i have a affinity for backs that score a lot of touchdowns in college because it ain't rare for them when they make it to the NFL. Instead, once that opportunity comes up again in the pros, it's already in their mental. This is what I do. I cross the goal line.

I'm making it happen. We're scoring six. I feel similarly with defensive linemen who live in the backfield. This is what i because look man i watched mozzie i watched the eka i watched brian brazee sure they are not that we watched dexter they are not people who live in the backfield and it's not because of lack of ability there are times when i would watch mozzie and i'm like dude get off the block like you've got him there do what you have done before.

I've seen you in this exact situation. Throw a push-pull on a guy. Hit a swim move on a guy. Get into the backfield. And it's just not second nature to them. Hansi's home is in the backfield. Before the mortgage rates went up, this man got himself a plot of land, and that's where he's living right now.

He's big chilling. The value on this property is through the roof. It's because he was in there early, and he's stayed there ever since. He is a backfield guy. That is where his home is, and I think that is so valuable for an interior defensive lineman like him. You mentioned, is he going to be for literally everybody? No, of course.

If you're playing an odd front, yeah, he's probably not for you. Probably can't draft him. But I really hope that he going to be for literally everybody no of course if you're playing an odd front yeah he's probably not for you probably can't draft him but i really hope that he goes to the perfect team because this is a dude that is consistently working he is fast he is violent and he is my kind of football player so i agree with you that's why i got him number two i mean man he's it's for real for anybody out there that reacted kind of surprised when they saw him going 10th overall in mel's mock or whatever it might be uh he is extremely extremely for real because he wrecks he's a game wrecker he's a game wrecker that he just does things that you won't see a lot of guys be able to do in terms of he i mean for his flexibility tre is just unbelievable, even at that size, an undersized IDL.

I will just say this. It's kind of an obvious, but I might as well say it just because we have a podcast about it. He does have the similar issues that Ika and Mozzie Smith do where the arms are shorter, right? I will watch him bull rush and get up into an offensive lineman's chest. And he times everything perfectly, fires off the ball, the hands go exactly where they need to, the offensive lineman is knocked back, they're on their heels, they're trying to grasp at anything

to try to get back control, they're trying to hop their feet, but he's pushing too far back. And the second he goes, okay, now and goes to rip them down in a push pull sometimes it's the same thing where the arm length just isn't long enough to get a clean disengagement from the block that he cannot cleanly shed the block as well as you would want him to and that's just a physical thing that you got to be okay with so i wanted to mention that. And that's just a physical thing that you got to be okay with. So I wanted to mention that too, but that seems to be a consistent that you're going to have to find through this class.

And if you're going to live with it from one guy, you're going to live with it from Kalai Jekansi, I think. Exactly. Shout out Mel Kiper. I will shout out to Mel. Shout out to Mel. I will give you the floor for number one, because I got to just take off on the runway

100 miles an hour for Kansi. So it's only fair you get number one. All right. Jalen Carter, go. Back to you, Carter. All right, back to you, Carter. That's really what it is. No, so Georgia defensive tackle Jalen Carter

was talked about as one of the best players, if not the best player on Georgia's defensive line last year, that he wasn't even draft eligible. And this is a defensive line that had Trayvon Walker. It had Jordan Davis. It had Devontae Wyatt. It had Nolan Smith. It had all these guys.

And there were plenty of people that were saying that Jalen Carter was the best among them. Second year in a row that he has had an elite PFF grade, not just overall, but also as a pass rusher. And this year he also had an elite PFF grade, not just overall, but also as a pass rusher. And this year he also had an elite grade as a run defender too. Six foot three, 310 pounds. He is built in a lab.

There is no bad weight on this dude whatsoever. He is thick and powerful in the lower half, and he is strong and stacked from the chest the shoulders the arms this dude is i mean he is he is he is a physical freak now he's only started 11 out of 36 games that he's been at georgia but i think that goes into georgia's rotation that they're going to have no matter what because they like to keep a lot of their guys fresh um simply put i mean i'll just i'll just read some of the strengths and weaknesses that i have on here just because just because I feel like there's so many strengths. Yes.

Rare speed, power, explosiveness. Yep. And I mean that. And a lot of times I will put in my notes, hey, good speed, power, explosiveness. Adequate speed, power, explosiveness. Very good speed, power, explosiveness. Rare. Unique, even, from this dude of how good he is um he is the push pulls that

he will execute devastating i mean ragdolling 330 pound young men who have great careers ahead of them long healthy lives ahead of them fulfilling moments yet to come and he is tossing them aside as if their lives don't even matter um he loves a swim move i think that he could pull it off effectively and anytime that he really times it right he's always drawing a flag or at least he's drawing what should be a holding penalty um i think that this dude could play anything from a zero tech to a five tech he's got the most versatility of any defensive lineman in this class because of how good he is georgie even stood him up sometimes as an edge rusher just to be hilarious about it like i did see there was one clip i can't remember what game it was from some poor tight end was on the lsu is a good guess because god he murder lsu

some poor tight end on the edge uh had to go up against him because the offensive line was slanting the other way. And I think Jordan, I think Jalen Carter just, I think he only used one arm. Like, I think he just only used one arm to completely dominate. But the other one behind his back and said, watch this kiddo. So the negatives about Jalen Carter, because I don't think he's a perfect prospect. There are a lot of technical discipline things

that I think that he needs to get better at the hand placement is all over the place he can he gets away with it because he is that good but it is truly all over the place it's it's something that i would love to see him get better out of the pros um sometimes i wondered like if it was even gonna really hurt him that much in the pros because that's how good this guy is and another thing he often gives up his chest a lot like if like he he again it's kind of one of those things where he knows he's so much stronger than whoever he's going to go up against he doesn't exactly protect his chest from offensive linemen really being able to get in there with their hands and i think in the nfl you got guys who are bigger and stronger when you give them

that proper technique and when they're able to get their hands in the right location it's going to be more difficult to really get those guys off you and get around and get into the backfield so then he gives up his chest a little bit too easily the hand placements all over the place um i noted this there are times when i don't think he knows where he's supposed to line up and i i mentioned that i'm only mentioning this catch because i saw it multiple times like there were times when he would line up as say like a three tech and the linebacker would like run up to him and and like and like tap him and like say something to him and it wasn't like him getting over a gap it wasn't like him going from a three tech to like a shade it was him going from a three

tech on one side of the line scrimmage to like the five tech on the other side of the line scrimmage it's almost just like he didn't know where to line up so i don't know i think obviously we got to get that um we got to we got to get that out, but truly one of the most physically gifted football players I've ever watched. If, if he hones in on his hand placement on defending his chest a little bit better and just being exactly where he needs to be kind of, this is an all pro player.

I've got a little category that says role, like where I think that their role could be. And sometimes that's also, like I say, like role slash like potential potential like what i could see from him i haven't here all pro defensive tackle and i almost never give players an all pro label when they're coming out i mean these are that is a blue chip label only he reminds me physically of indominican sue now when sue was coming out of nebraska sue's football iq was off the charts as well so he was he was very experienced he was very anticipatory i don't think jalen carter is as anticipatory as indominican sue was but that is the mold of

player that we are talking about that is the kind of physically imposing beast that we are talking about as a defensive tackle um without question a top five grade for me and a player who should absolutely be picked as such yeah i mean he's just different he's different when you watch him play he's unblockable. You can't keep him blocked. He's, like you said, he's out of control with his hands because he's so gifted that I don't know if he'll ever have to be a technically refined player. Honestly, I really just think that at the end of the day, it just doesn't really matter because he's that talented. He's that quick. He's that explosive.

He's that flexible. He's that powerful.'s that quick he's that explosive he's that flexible he's that powerful he plays with his hair on fire he does this against the run he does this as a pass rusher um he has trevor what's crazy to me is a stop and start at that size i mean he can hit a rush lane one way and then change direction the other way this is a guy that's going to be chasing down the Josh Allens of the world and the Lamar Jacksons of the world. Like, that kind of dude. So, and when you talk about the lining up thing, I noticed it too. I think he just, I want to word this right.

I think he just does what he wants sometimes. I really felt that way. He can get away with it, which is crazy enough. He can get away with it. is crazy enough he can get away with it so he's a special player um truly i yeah i mean i come away with this and it's tougher between him and will anderson than i thought to be honest with you i really because i've been on the will's number one player overall in this draft for a while and when i just keep revisiting carter i'm like man he's gonna get some special player comps and he's a difference maker i mean a difference

maker where he's gonna be on the nfl field and he's probably i'll put it like this and i know the odds will be interesting because of how talented will anderson is jalen carter should be the favorite for defensive rookie of the year because of how i don't think there will be an adjustment for him that will a player like will anderson will have to go through when you're rushing from the edge and you are a lighter guy things that used to work in college won't work in the nfl anymore the things that won't yet things that work for jaylen carter in college will still work in the nfl because he's just quicker than guards and centers he's stronger than tackles right so that was kind of interesting to

me i'm with you top five grade um at a minimum will probably be my number two overall player on this draft i could see him finishing as my number one overall player i will go back and forth on those two guys testing on the d line is really big so combo combine will be really big but if the bears don't trade the pick he there's a good shot he's the number one overall selection wouldn't shock anyone well but bears got to trade the pick but i i do see what you're saying your point stands um before we get out of here is there anybody that we really didn't mention that you have outside of the top five i have i have mazzy smith is my six um out of seven okay so i'm number one on bruce feldman's freak list is the michigan defensive tackle comes in at six foot three 337 pounds

there's a lot of things that i think he does really well i mean he's a fantastic athlete i think he turns the corner very well i think he's got a great swim move to him he knows how to get off the block i just feel like his tape is way too hot and cold. Like you watch the Iowa game and then you watch the Ohio state game and you go, okay, why didn't you play like that versus Iowa the way that you played against Ohio state? Like if people only watch the Ohio state game,

it's kind of like watching Brian Brzee against UNC. You're going to think this dude should be a potential, like a first round pick. And you watch the rest of his tape and it's just like it's kind of confusing how he doesn't have that same kind of success the consistency is just not there with with molly smith and maybe it will be in the nfl but um was kind of discouraged by how especially against the run it felt like he was against a handful of teams that i watched but the ohio state game is great and so you, you know, he, I know he gets,

he gets up for the big games and you love to see that. And that's the best competition that he faced. And that was the best game that he put out there. So I think that that's certainly worth noting for him. He's another player who will give you a lot of good pass rush potential as an interior guy. I just felt like he just was not reliable enough. He's still a rotational player in my opinion right now. Yeah. I thought he played a little high against the run and just got moved around a lot i think his athletic splashes

as a rusher are very impressive but you look at a dude that's 340 and i didn't see much bull rush power yep he he fits the eco mold i thought to a way lesser extent of huge athletic as hell rumored sub seven, three cone, which is alien territory at that size, but likes the finesse rush dirty work against the run leaves you underwhelmed. So I I'm with you there.

He's going to be a developmental middle of the draft kind of guy. Although athletes tend to go early. You mentioned Byron Young. I liked Byron Young. I had him sixth. I was, you know, when you look at Irvin Dexter, I was a little let down. He was a player that I thought would be a complete player, and I saw a niche run-stopping player.

I thought he was sluggish off the ball in his rush. Tons of stalemates in 1v1s you wouldn't know he played against georgia honestly i watched every snap against georgia and i'm like man he's just out there he's just out there he doesn't want that smoke against them uh but i thought he was strong tough and gritty against the run i mean he's somebody that if i drafted him in the fourth round i have a place for him in my rotation where i could stick him out there at the three tech and be like hey man just don't get moved off the ball get in the way against the run he could do that so i guess my expectations from summer and hype was he could be a fringe first round player

and he's just kind of the same exact guy after that where you look at him and go third to fourth round player run stuffer total just nothing as a pass rusher right now. Yeah. He's just pretty slow off the ball. Unfortunately, he just doesn't have that quick twitch. Like when the ball is snapped, it feels like he's often the last guy out of his stance, but super strong run defender. I mean, he's six foot six, 315 pounds. And so, you know, if you want to play him as a defensive end in an odd front, you know, where he's, he's almost defensive end in an odd front you know where he's

he's almost like playing between the tackles and you can use his length and he could two gap on the outside like that's great because i do think he's a really powerful run defender but like i said just the and it's not like he's not explosive he's just not quick twitched and so it kind of just shows up and how he would rush the passer doesn't have a lot of pass rush pedigree right now so um yeah i just think that he's he's he's a run defender and uh if you want him to be more that's okay it just might it's gonna take a little bit of time don't expect to get any pass rush out of him in the first couple of years he'll probably just be a rotational uh run stuffing interior defense but which is okay i mean he's like i said he's uniquely built six

six two three hundred and fifteen pounds if you get arms look long yeah yeah absolutely if you if you get gervin dexter like i gave him a late day two grade but i mean if you get him anywhere in the third round beginning of the third round whenever like you're getting a good defensive lineman a guy that you're gonna be able to rotate he's going to last in the nfl for a really long time because he's just he's tough and gritty against the run he's got the build to succeed against the run i it's funny how players are shaped right if i'd never heard of gerben dexter in my life until this draft season i'd be like this is a nice back end of third round player who's gonna rotate on the d-line for a while and help you against the run a lot of teams need that help from all the summer

work we did i was like man i wanted this guy to be a top 40 pick and sure have six sacks and kind of move people off the line and just be a force so yeah that's the game of the draft that is the game of the draft well if you guys are excited about what we were talking about with Jalen Carter, about Kalijah Cansey, and you want to invest in him, Mojo is going to actually give you the opportunity to be able to do that. Mojo is the all-new sports stock market that lets you invest in your favorite athletes and cash in on your passion. Sign up right now on the Apple App Store to get your first player stock for free,

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use the promo code PFF. New customers can bet $5 on the conference championship and get 200 in free bets instantly. Only DraftKings Sportsbook with promo code PFF. Minimum agent eligibility restrictions apply. See show notes for details. Connor, anything else before we get out of here? We got an exciting week coming up.

Woo! It's Senior Bowl week. Senior Bowl, baby! We will not be doing a preview because we talked about a lot of these guys. There's no reason to really allocate a show towards what... And also, 99% of the people listening to the show won't be there. So they're not looking out for this stuff.

So instead, we will have a really fun mock draft-related show for you on Monday. We think a lot of you liked the concept of us going through DJ's picks. So now we will do the same thing with Mel Kiper's picks on Monday. But Trevor and I will both be at the Senior Bowl, and the other two shows of the week will be Senior Bowl-centric. We will be letting you know everything that happens at practice, everything going on with NFL teams, players on the rise, all that great stuff.

So two out of three next week are Senior Bowl-related, but we will kick off the week with a very mock draft-centric episode. So it's going to be a lot of fun going forward. Could not have wrapped it up and previewed it better myself. Well done, my friend. I'm excited about it. I'm excited for the Mock Draft episode to really dig into Mel Kuyper's mock because I've seen it a little bit, but I'm excited to really analyze it with you.

Elijah Cantsey, number one fan. Woo! Now we are. Good for Mel. Plant that flag. I mean, we're going to rip his Mock Draft to shreds like we do everybody's, but good for Mel, you know? Good luck out there, Mel. Prepare for hell. I'm, we're going to rip his mock draft to shreds like we do everybody's, but good for Mel, you know? Good luck out there, Mel.

Prepare for hell. I'm super excited for next week. We're going to have Shrine Bowl updates. We're going to have Senior Bowl updates. It is going to be jam-packed. And if this is when you kick off your NFL draft coverage, welcome. Buckle up. Hell yeah.

It's going to be a wild ride. I'm Trevor Sikma. That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for listening to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. See you guys next week. Thank you.