NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 146. Early Linebacker Position Rankings For 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their updated linebacker position rankings for the 2023 NFL Draft. The two talk about their rankings in the preseason, things that have changed since then, and give each their new Top 5 rankings for the position

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL stock exchange podcast in this episode we are ranking the off-ball linebackers in the 2023 NFL draft now they're all different shapes and sizes of linebackers right there's the true off-ball linebackers guys that have been off-ball players always have been always will then there's the hybrids the safety off-ball linebacker hybrid

the off-ball on-ball linebacker hybrids so many different guys to choose from but we somehow give them to you in a top five form this is also the last episode that we have on the pff youtube channel so if you guys are into watching this on YouTube, not just audio only, stay tuned at the end of the episode to see how you can support the podcast at the end of that. We would really appreciate it. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me as always is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you guys on a Thursday edition of the show, which means it's time to dig into another positional ranking.

Early positional ranking, of course, because we don't have combine measurables. We don't have combine athletic results for a lot of these guys. We'll get into our final rankings as we get closer to draft day at the end of April. But we wanted to give you a primer here for the linebacker position, off-ball linebackers, so we're not talking pure edge rushers. Although, Connor, as we said before we recorded, some of these guys feel like they're edge rushers. They just happen to be playing in the middle of the field.

But before we dig into all that, my friend, how are you doing today? I'm good, man. I know you and I have been watching linebackers for about 36 hours straight right now. Yes. Yeah, I took like a nap in between. No bathroom breaks. No bathroom breaks. Just coffee and naps.

So it's cycling. Coffee, naps, cretine cycling right now. Listen, man, I texted somebody jokingly in the middle of this process. I said, I went into watching off ball linebackers this week and 20% of them should just be edge rushers.

It's crazy. So we're going to talk about that a lot today. It's a fascinating class because it's very day two and day three heavy. This group full transparency trevor and this could change after the combine because some of these guys well one guy could could earn this i didn't have a first round grade right now on any of these guys yeah i did not have a first round grade on any of these guys uh there's one player that could be fringe but it's still looking like a long shot so there's just a lot to get into today about guys that what they're best at

rushing the passer for a lot of them. You know, you and I talked before the show that it's fascinating to watch so many college linebackers and maybe one out of every five or six of them actually play linebacker, like read their keys, let the run flow to them. A lot of guys are just running around and they're an athlete out on the field and that's where the game is gone so the amount of projecting needed in this group is very very difficult and will make for a fascinating process yeah it's decently heavy that projection for sure if you guys are new to the format of this show what connor and i are going to do is we're going to count down from five to one give you our linebackers

that we have uh currently ranked, four, three, two, and then our number one linebacker in the class. But look, for the people that know these positional shows, you guys know that we're going to talk about plenty of other guys as well. We'll talk about who just missed the list, guys who are a little bit further down. A lot of the guys that we watched here almost got 10 guys watched. So we'll be able to dig into a lot of these guys tape give you some evaluation on this linebacker class as a whole but connor i'll let

you kick it off here my friend let's get it who is your number five linebacker as of right now in this class so number five so over summer my number five was owen papo and mine and this guy at number five i will say improved a lot. And he deserves a lot of credit for that because he did not make my top five over summer. I was woefully underwhelmed when I watched him over summer and I did see a different player this year. And that would be Henry Toa Toa on Alabama. I was, you know, it's cool when you watch a guy for Toa Toa, he started two years at Tennessee transfers to Alabama and then he started two years at Alabama. So this guy has played a lot of football.

And Trevor, I just thought he got a lot better this year in year four. Maybe being comfortable in that Alabama defense. There is no flash in his game. There's not an ounce of flash in his game. It's just all steady, Eddie. Let the be patient, have balance, let the run flow to me. Stop the run. Like the ultimate stalemate player is what I would call it. He's not rushing the passer and getting sacks. He's not lining up man to man coverage and getting interceptions. He's not even really

making explosive plays behind the line of scrimmage. He's just this guy that is asked to do his job and goes out pretty fearlessly and does exactly that. So I had written down right away, the four-year starter, two at Tennessee, two at Alabama, flows to the run with good vision, patience, and balance. Not a lot of guys in this class do that at all. Honestly, they are all so raw in that area. I wrote down that he comes to balance when breaking down to tackle, no fear of crashing into linemen out in front, but also I saw a couple of times he has a good shoulder dip to slip blocks when he needs to. Noticeably vocal in the front seven with teammates

pre-snap. Adequate in zone coverage using his eyes and awareness. The same applies when he was chasing down screens. I did not see the athleticism to be a guy that can hold up in man coverage. If you throw him in a scheme where you're asking this linebacker to go line up man to man with running backs, tight ends, whatever it may be. I don't think that's an area where he's going to succeed. I did write down, but I previously said he comes to balance when breaking down a tackle. That part is good. He did miss 14 total tackles in 2022. I'd like to see that improve. It's not the coming to balance.

I don't know if it's the forceful striking or if he needs to get stronger. He's not the biggest guy in the world, too. And that's something you're going to hear on this. He's about 6'1", probably played around 225. I know he was listed at 230. So he does miss tackles. I just, he's, to me, a round three kind of guy that could be a starter at the league and do what's asked of him without that flash.

So in that class, that earns you the number five spot for Henry Toto. Well, he's number five for me as well. I think he was a little bit higher for my summer scouting rankings. I can't remember. For some reason, I feel like he was three or two for me. A little bit lower now, but I do still have him in my top five. I thought you nailed a lot of the pauses about his game. He feels very patient.

Feels like he's where he needs to be. Now, I will say he gets fooled by misdirection a little bit too much, but that's also kind of part of playing linebacker. You flow with the way that you think the line of scrimmage is going and where your guy is going. And that's why play action works, right? We can't sit here and be like, oh, emphasize play action on offense. It works, it works, it works.

And then get mad on the other side of things. Yeah, dumbass. Stop calling for play action. Right, right. It's something that it's going to happen. But I think a little too often it happened. There were a couple of games I was watching where I was like, okay, would rather you've not a bit that bad as the way that you did.

But then there were a couple of other instances where I thought that he read things pretty quickly. So just a little up and down in that area. But I do think he's a great communicator. And he is definitely a centerpiece of that defense. I thought in the way that he plays the position, we mentioned at the top of the podcast, there's not a lot of pure linebackers in this class.

And I am fascinated to see what happens in the years to come, like next year, the year after that, how many pure linebackers we get. Because like you said, I evaluated a lot of guys that were either just athletes that happened to be playing in the middle of the field or guys who should be edge rushers, who you have as off- the linebackers just because of the situation like some of the schemes that we watched um these teams are only getting two linebackers on the field one of them is a true linebacker i mean okay so i'm the main one i'm

talking about is arkansas right drew sanders literally used to play as an edge rusher but arkansas only plays with two linebackers so So they play with Drew Sanders out there, and then they play with Bumper Poole. Bumper Poole is like the true inside linebacker type. And Drew Sanders is like the one who's kind of just like flying around, attacking the pocket, doing things like that. Henry Toto is one of those players who has an actual linebackers mentality. Like he is actually playing the position and approaching the position the way that you would traditionally want it to.

And I'm not saying that one's better than the other. It all just depends how the defense coordinator has things schemed up. But if you are looking for a more true outside linebacker, off ball linebacker in this class, Toto has got to be higher on the list. Even if you don't love the fact that he's maybe not the greatest athlete in the world. You mentioned some missed tackles in there i think he's got a strength issue man he's got it has to be he's got there he's got to get a lot stronger because i watched

him i watched him get taken out by just single blocks not even doubles too yeah you know he would come and see him in this group. I do want to read this quote because when Nick Saban speaks, I do listen. He is truly one of the greatest defensive minds the game has ever seen. So this is what he had to say about Henry Toto this past year. Henry's just really instinctive. He's a smart football player. He does a really good job of preparing for games. I think Pete Golding, who's the linebacker coach, does a really great job with those linebackers, understanding how they fit relative to whatever the call is.

Henry's one of those guys that gets it. He's almost like a coach out there. He's a great communicator. So I think that because he makes calls up front, that it really makes the other parts of the front seven feel even more comfortable and confident in what they're doing and how we can execute together as a group. That part I do think matters again, because if you just want any old linebacker, like if you want to get faster in the middle, you're probably not going to pick Henry Toto because there are other linebackers in this class that will probably give you a higher athletic ceiling than he will. But if you are looking for a true off-ball mentality type player,

he's one of the few in this class who can make it happen. So I think he needs to get a little bit stronger, increase the anticipation instead of the reaction. But I do love the mind that he has for the position. And like I said, if you need an off-ball linebacker in this class in the third round, I think you nailed it.

That's the realm for him, and he'd be a decent pick for you. So I had him in his own tier there at number five. Now we get into a tier where I would pair number three and number four together, and I'll start with number four, and that's where we get a little funky, where it gets a little weird. Guys that are just not true off-ball linebackers, but not true pass rushers, and that would be Nick Herbig for me from wisconsin i

didn't watch her big i didn't watch okay you have to because okay really if he wasn't listed at 6 2 2 30 i say he was 6 3 240 there's just no way you you wouldn't call him an edge honestly and i have a feeling when i get to the end of this draft and do evaluate and stack everybody i might even put him in the edge group i really need to talk to some people and see how teams are going to look to play him because he had a 90.9 pass rush grade in our system i mean an elite pass rush grade it's his best strength. He finished 2022 with an absurd 23.4% win rate. And that's on 184 pass-throw snaps. That's a lot of pass-throw snaps for an outside linebacker. He's getting opportunities.

He had 11 sacks, six more quarterback hits, and 16 pressures in those snaps. He's started 31 games in three seasons at Wisconsin. When you count the COVID year being the first one, that's an incredible number. He's basically played every game since he's got there. He has 20 sacks over his last two seasons. He's a stand-up rusher from wide alignments. I mean, that's what he is.

I get it. He's small for your traditional pass rusher. He's even small-ish for a stand-up rusher. I don't know if he's going to come in at 6'2". When a guy's listed, I mean, we'll see. Maybe he does come right in at 6'2". Maybe he bulks up and weighs 235, 240. He plays a violent brand of football. He's got a very quick first step off the snap, and he can time the snap as well. There's a couple of times where I caught him watching the center and actually getting his step before the ball is fully snapped, which is absolutely legal. He's got that kind of

timing. He can win with speed to the outside and turn the corner. He does an excellent job of swatting and chopping offensive linemen's hands away. There are plays where he will just run 100 miles an hour across the field to chase down quarterbacks. When you watch him against the run, he has that pass rusher mentality against the run still, where he's very aggressive, almost overaggressive. He will take chances. Sometimes it leads to big plays in the backfield. Sometimes he just takes himself completely out of plays.

So this is a fascinating player that, quite honestly, I liked him just as much as my number three, which we'll get to in a second. Like this is, this is a three a and three B with no four or four and four B with no three. I would write them up exactly the same. I think that despite him having some measurable questions, if you evaluate him as an edge, he's just a really, really good player. He's got polish. He's got a plan. He plays as hard as anybody I've watched in this class. Obviously, pedigree there. His brother was a starting guard for the Jets this year. They're from Hawaii. Yeah.

And his brother, Nate, who plays guard, absolutely plays with an edge. You can see it. Nick's a way better player coming out into the draft it's he's really good Trevor and it's just truly kind of confusing what he's going to be at the next level but I kept coming back to he's just such a good football player and I'm so desperate for good linebackers in this draft that I had to have him in the top four honestly could have easily, like I said, been number three. And it maybe would even be a top five edge if you put him in that group as well.

So he's doing the Zach Bond thing, right? Yes. Wisconsin. I mean, we've been doing the draft long enough, you and I, that we've seen this before. This isn't, this isn't rare territory for us zach bond was that kind of guy where he was so zach bond was 6-2 238 at the combine yeah probably 230 they wanted him to be an off ball linebacker like i'm trying to i'm trying to look it up right now what bond's position splits have been uh okay this past year they played him at edge they played him right outside linebacker left outside linebacker but i don't think that was always the case was it no because here he was a box player yeah yeah no no no they had him as a they had him as an inside

linebacker in 2021 okay so this is what i thought they all right so they had him at edge then they had him at off ball then they had him back at edge yeah i thought they moved him around a lot he's been all over the place but his the reason why i bring that up is because his best tape at wisconsin was an edge like he was an edge rusher and when he got drafted i was like he's an edge just like let him be an edge rusher don't do this hybrid off ball linebacker thing just that's her picture and um i just don't think they wanted to buy into it and i feel like bond's gotten a little lost in the shuffle even when he's been on the edge but uh maybe maybe some saints fans can can tell me about that and clear that up because i'm not gonna pretend to watch every zach bond snap but it seems like the same thing as a zach bond

situation where the guy's best tape is actually as an edge rusher but we've got him here in the off-ball linebacker class because maybe that's where they think he's going to get drafted. I mean, he's a dangerous. Yeah, this dude's a stand up rusher. He's he's a better pass rusher, I think, than Bond was. I really do. I think that pretty sure Bond will ultimately have better measurables. I mean, you just start with the Iowa game. He just he terrorized both tackles, terrorized them.

OK, it was actually like you started to sit there and go, this is. He terrorized both tackles. Terrorized them. Okay. It was actually like you started to sit there and go, he's starting to embarrass people out here. That's the kind of game he had against Iowa. It was one of the better games I've seen for a prospect as a pass rusher this year. I liked Vaughn. I really did. As an edge rusher.

I like the look where I had him. I'm shocked at how the lack of production has been. I didn't think this. Yeah, me too. So who do you got for number four for me? I have Dorian Williams from Tulane at number at number four. Last guy I watched.

Okay. So I don't know what your thoughts are on him. I'll get him in a second, but he's played in 48 games over the last four years, six foot two, 230 pounds. He actually plays a little bit of linebacker the way that he okay you know how a couple of these guys we're going to talk about like her bigs an example

i already brought up drew sanders there's a couple of other players that didn't make my top five they're more edge rushers that like kind of play off ball linebacker this is for dorian williams i think it's flipped i think he's an off-ball linebacker that also can rush the passer like i think he's the appropriate ratio of what you would want because in a class that i was begging for somebody other than trent simpson to look twitched up like somebody please just give me some actual athleticism orian williams did like he's a twitch player man he'll i mean he'll get to the quarterback through the a gap the b gap off the edge i like the athleticism that he has in coverage i watched a play god what game was this i think it was the memphis game i was watching where he was

the linebacker he was he was carrying the linebacker all the way as a tampa to mike all the way up the middle 2 Mike all the way up the middle of the seam stayed with him the whole time got the forced incompletion got the batted down pass and there are times when he's a little bit late to recognize exactly where the ball is going you know again he it's unfortunately a common theme in this class reaction instead of anticipation and I think that that needs to get a little bit better. But man, of the guys that I would like to draft, you know, third round, something like that, try to really hone in on that off-ball skill,

make the most out of that athleticism, give me Dorian Williams. I feel like he's got a pretty damn high ceiling because of that. So I watched two games of him. I only got two in, because he was actually the last guy that I watched. But of those two games, i really liked what i saw so very very curious to see what his results are when we

get to indianapolis for the combine excited to get to more of this tape because again in a group that i felt i was just starving for some sort of athletic playmakers because i watched a lot of these guys and i'm like you're almost getting out-athleted at the college level which means it ain't gonna get any easier for you when you get into the pros Dorian Williams to me was one of the best athletes on the field and certainly the two games that I watched of him so that gives me hope no it's lesser competition but that gives me hope that when he makes it to the next level he he's not going to get totally lost in the shuffle athletically. So I,

I liked him a good amount, man. I liked him enough to have him at LB four ahead of a guy who I think is a steady Eddie, like to take your words in, in total. He just gives you a bigger swing of the bat, a little bit of a higher ceiling for an off ball linebacker.

So I was very intrigued and I got him at number four. His tape and profile is definitely, is definitely um is definitely good honestly he's not the biggest guy but he's big enough he is pretty consistent with tape my biggest concern with him is you watch all this good film and then you watch him against kansas state a step up in competition and he has his worst game against the run oh yeah i did the kansas state game was the other game that I watched, actually. And I'm like, man, he's not like bad out here,

but he's getting bullied by a better unit compared to what he's used to playing. So I looked at, and number one, he will have a role in the NFL because he can cover. He's a good athlete. Like you said, Trevor, you were excited to just see some athleticism at the position.

He can run with people. He had two two interceptions he had good ball production um i think the quarterback rating when targeted was like 65 he had one of the lowest completion percentages for all the linebackers that i watched and covered yeah he he's a good he's a good player in coverage you'd like to see him just it'll the step up will be a little bit of an adjustment for him but he got the senior bowl invite so So I'm glad you got him in there. I did get to watch him, and he would be in my top 10 if I did a top 10. So number three for me that I would group with number four was Drew Sanders, who you brought up from Arkansas.

This is kind of a fascinating player because he transfers from Alabama to Arkansas. He's 6'5", 232, just traits galore. Can almost host the podcast. Just needs a little bit more weight. He is one tub of mass gainer away from potentially being co-host number three. Right. We'll say that.

Yeah. This is a former number one recruit in the entire state of Texas. Like, Drew Sanders isn't some... It's funny how guys get painted, right? Drew Sanders isn't some story where it's like, man, wasn't good enough at Alabama, transfers, and is an instant star.

This guy was supposed to be like a dude for Alabama. Doesn't work out. After being a massive recruit, obviously Arkansas lands him in the portal, and he's wildly productive right away. In 2022, he played 102 snaps on the D-line and 665 at linebacker, really standing up. They move him all over.

I think you kind of got into that with him. The reason Sanders will be drafted early and could go as early as round one, truly, even though he doesn't... He's, to me, that's not a round one player right now. He's not. I wouldn't as early as round one. Truly, even though he, he doesn't, he's to me, that's not a round one player right now. He's not. I wouldn't,

I wouldn't take round one. No. Why he could go round one. He has traits. He has burst. He has length. He's got some quicks. He's got,

and he uses that. I mean, he, he has an impressive arm over in that pass rush arsenal that when you're six foot five and bursty, you can do that consistently. You can hit that move where I got a little, uh, you know, cold on him. He's really still trying to improve against the downhill running game. He can't stack and shed consistently right now, Trevor, he can, and's 6'5", so naturally he's playing high. And when guys get under his pads, he doesn't, he really can't counter. He's really not countering at all. So that's why I look at him and I don't really think he's a linebacker. This goes back to the

Herbig situation where he's a stand-up edge rusher right now. I will say he got more confident against the run as the season went on. I started with his early tape and went kind of downwards because he's a transfer from Alabama. This is a thrown-into-the-fire situation. I wanted to give him that, hey, how much better did you get from September all the way to November situation? He did get more confident, but he's also not a good tackler at all, at all.

He missed 16 total tackles this year. He does not strike with force or power when tackling. He just bounces off guys. He doesn't, when you watch, I want to use some guys that really do, well, we'll get into them in a bit. But he doesn't strike guys where you're like, oh, that's a body blow to the running back. He bounces off guys a lot.

So this is a traits player. He has plus sideline speed when in run and chase situations, he can contain quarterbacks. He, he got Bryce young on a run and chase situation to the sideline. That was one of the better plays I saw from him. My thing with him, Trevor,

if you're taking him early, you better have a scheme that lets him play freely and capitalize on those traits and allow him to rush and not think yeah the instincts aren't good enough to do that you know i agree like you like you do that you do that with michael parsons right you do that with parsons because parsons can play both and he's got enough instincts to be able to do that but i it's we just i i i don't mean to i didn't mean to is he number three for you yeah he's three okay so that's this is good no please interject yeah okay so so he's he's also three for me

and yet you get into that you get into that tough experiment where i think everybody likes to talk about versatility on defense right we all love to talk about the chess piece players the isaiah simmons right the guys that can be that safety linebacker hybrid the uh nickel corner linebacker hybrid kyle hamilton the edge rusher right the edge rusher linebacker kind of hybrid that one's a little bit more streamlined than the other ones but you know what i'm saying the problem is that you can't get homeless right you can't you can't not have a home-based position unless you are just stupid athletic unless you are just crazy athletic because you can't look at drew sanders and say yeah uh just let him you know freelance like micah parsons does because that's

that's that's that's asinine. That's crazy. The only reason why it really works for Micah Parsons is because he's Micah freaking Parsons. And there's one of them. That's it. For Sanders, I'm worried because he doesn't have the instincts. He doesn't have the like uber athleticism. He weighs about 230. But a lot of that is height, right? You look at his body and you go, OK, this guy's actually pretty lean. So a lot of that 230 is height. he could play 250 that's what i'm saying are you stacking more weight on him you get him closer to 240 245 but then at that point if you're putting him at 245 again are you making him an edge rusher i don't want to be too hard on sanders who is also my my number three

here because i read that he played linebacker and quarterback in high school um which is pretty crazy wasn't he a tight end recruit too like he had to pick was he was he a tight end recruit i think he had to pick either i want to make sure i'm not mixing him up with somebody i didn't i don't remember i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure he had to choose what side of the ball to focus on no because he played because he played quarterback in high school heist in arkansas's page for him it says high school one of the nation's top all-around athletes and a prototypical linebacker or tight end uh chose to focus on the defensive side of the football at alabama interesting well maybe okay so maybe he he might have still played

quarterback in high school because i did read have still played quarterback in high school because i did read that he played quarterback in high school but was recruit like viewed if he was gonna stay on offense yeah like a lot of quarterbacks yeah a lot of big quarterbacks in high school do go that route so he goes to bama right was a five-star recruit goes to bama basically only plays special teams in his first year so he was just playing special teams when he was there and then the reason why he played his sophomore year is because um oh who was it that got hurt um was it christian harris probably somebody got hurt and he came in and basically exclusively played edge rusher because i got that i got the snap counts right here this is funny in 2020 his first year in college at alabama he played two total snaps

in the box as an off-ball linebacker in 2021 his second year at alabama he played three total snaps as an off-ball linebacker you get one more this year this play this this past year at Alabama, he played three total snaps as an off-ball linebacker. You get one more this year. This past year at Arkansas, he played 731 snaps at off-ball linebacker. So he was playing off-ball for the first time since high school. So there is a lot of growth that could be happening here because he is a really nice athlete. One of the notes I have is that when they ask him to be an edge rusher, when they line him up as an edge rusher or just tell him to go attack the pocket, he wins almost immediately.

He knows exactly what he's doing as a pass rusher. But it's just the linebacker instincts, I think how he moves in coverage, the feel for passing off routes, that's definitely not there yet with him. Could it get there at some point? Maybe. But are you taking that kind of a guy in the first round? I probably would not. He did not get a first-round grade for me. If you were a team that was desperate for a linebacker,

even in that situation, I'm not going to force it. He's a guy who I think is an intriguing prospect on day two. And that's where I've got him at three in this class. Yep, me too. I didn't have a first-round grade on anyone, but specifically I didn't have him as a top-two linebacker in this class. I mean, there's just a lot of questions there. Like we said, there's a lot of projecting that needs to be done which leads me to number two which ironically was also my number

two over summer and it's funny to say this about number two but this is the best linebacker in the draft as it stands today and that's jack campbell i don't think jack campbell has the biggest ceiling i don't think jack camp, you know, obviously will test like number one. And once again, Jack, you can make the argument Jack Campbell, though, should be number one.

It's one and two. I kind of looked at it three and four in terms of tiers. Depends. Depends. Do you need a linebacker to win the Super Bowl next year? Because if so,

then you probably have to pick Jack Campbell and plug and play. Are you picking a linebacker to rebuild? Then you're year? Because if so, then you probably have to pick Jack Campbell and plug and play. Are you picking a linebacker to rebuild? Then you're probably going to pick the guy that we both have a number. That's a really good way to put it. I mean, Campbell's a great player. I want to make that very clear because I don't know why more people aren't talking about him as a great player because he's every bit of a great player.

He's 6'5", 246 pounds. He graded out with a 91.8 defensive grade so that's basically telling you and elite every aspect of his game coverage run defense he's not like these other guys where they're like hey buddy like here's your dessert you get to rush the passer the second half of the game that's not that's not iowa football that's not what he was asked to do. No, no, no. He's a coal miner, baby. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, exactly. So it comes out.

Faith is just covered. Covered. And he just, man, he just gets it done. This is a permanent team captain. Here's some of my summer notes mixed with the notes this year because it didn't change. It really didn't change. He was excellent.

Number one, he won the Buckus Award this year, and he deserved every bit of it. He finished 2022 this season, 59 tackles, 32 solo stops, seven tackles for a loss, one sack, two picks, and he missed 11 total tackles. I don't really think those numbers do the justice of the kind of season this guy had. What I wrote down after that to really, you know, emphasize what he did. It's impossible to find the bad tape of Jack Campbell this year. There's that. He doesn't have a bad game.

You could watch every single game. Right. And he might have a off play or maybe a couple series. He does not have a bad game in my eyes. And he is such a sound, instinctual kind of player. He can stack and shed fire into the ball carrier. He's six, five, 246 pounds. When he hits, he hits with force and he can run sideline to sign. I don't think he's the fastest guy. I think the biggest question is the same question we had him about him over the summer. What is he going to run? And that's what's going to carry with him all the way

into the combine is that long speed. But when you go back to those instincts, he had a play against Ohio State this year. That was the perfect coverage play that he's dropping and using his eyes and turning his body the whole way. And it's just a beautiful interception that goes back to how smart of a player he is and how polished of a player he is. And when you just look at him against the run, he could throw that big body around in the front seven right up on the defensive line. He knows how to hit his gaps. He knows how to read his keys. Really, really good football player. And that is something that I've found it very hard to say about this draft class as a whole

of what if i put this man on an nfl field today would they hold up and i'm confident that jack campbell can i agree with you completely man i agree with you 100 the weaknesses in his scouting report i it really just kind of revolves around one thing, middling athleticism. And that's about it. I mean, he is just not a top tier athlete, but the rest of his tape for a linebacker is fun as hell. I have in part of my blurb here, quote, just really loves being a linebacker. Yes, he does.

He just loves. Stereotypical linebackerbacker seems like he just loves playing the position he's making the calls in the middle he's making the adjustment he's a captain like you said he's there were there were a couple of plays that i was watching that i devoted a decent amount of time to where something went wrong and the ohio state game is one of them there was an example where ohio state was running split zone and campbell fires like he has shot out of a cannon to one of the gaps going going towards the strong side where the offensive line is flowing and the running back ends up cutting it back and having a big gap up the middle going all the way through and it was initially exactly where

campbell was standing to start the play and And I was like, did he miss that? I was like, that would be, that would be probably the most egregious miss that I have seen from him. And I go back and I rewind it a bunch of times, bunch of times, bunch of times. No, he was exactly where he needed to be. And it was somebody else who should have filled at that spot, actually took a really bad pursuit angle to try to get around um one of the offensive linemen it leaves the hole in the middle wide open campbell was doing exactly what he's supposed

to do as he is so often throughout his tape gap discipline uh run fits are a full category that i have in my scouting my numerical scouting report when it comes out to kind of like spitting out would be it would be a grade for me um and he graded very very well in it just because it feels like this guy was never out of place he understands how playing linebacker works man if you can get to the outside and you can you can force a guy to get back inside where you got help he often does it he attacks the line of scrimmage uh with violence he is making sure that he can get into offensive lineman's chest into their face make sure that he's taking up a block not not that he's trying to get cute. Because that's the problem too. A lot of these guys, a lot of these speed guys,

they're trying to get cute about it, right? They're pass rushers first when they attack the line scrimmage. And for a handful of these linebackers, they're just trying to like scoot around the edge, scoot around the shoulder. Go into his chest. Like when you know that's what you got to do,

go into his chest. That's what I want to's what you got to do. Go into his chest. That's what I want to see. And not enough linebackers did that in that class. No, Jack Campbell does. Jack Campbell does the dirty work. And he does the playmaking work. There are a handful of pursuit plays where look,

our guys who are faster at the NFL level, maybe going to be able to outrun them. Yeah. And again, that's, that's part of his scouting report. That's just the truth about it but the way that he recognizes play is the way that he's already going to where the ball is going the pursuit angles that he has um i just think i

just love the way that he approaches the position when it comes to true off-ball linebackers he's he's a good one he's a good one i wish he was faster i wish he was a little bit more athletic but it kind of is what it is i still think he's going to be a really solid day to pick man it's that's exactly it it's it's a situation where like he's not gonna be everybody's favorite mock draftable web he's not gonna have 10 sacks a year he's not gonna be the guy getting these pick six splash plays but when you look at the most consistent down by down player that will open things up for other guys around him it's jack campbell so i loved him and i honestly think he would be my current super dark horse like super super dark horse for defensive rookie of the year next year because you think he's going to play play well right away right away and i'll have a ton of tackles and you know jaylen carter should

be the runaway favorite with will anderson i totally get all that but if you're just looking for somebody that's odds are on the moon like plus 5 000 and you sprinkle five or ten bucks on him i think he will be a plug and play level kind of player and the fact that he probably won't go to the second round gives him even better shot to go to a team that is playing meaningful football for a while so which brings me to number one Trevor who like Jack Campbell being number two over the summer number one was number one over the summer and it's Trenton Simpson from Clemson and yep honestly you watch the Clemson defenders i thought brazee had a down year from what we expected i thought miles murphy was okay and while simpson's great i mean we

have a defensive rate on him at 69.3 it doesn't have his jaw-dropping stats i still love him on film what he can do do. Number one, he's about six, three, two 30. They stick his ass. It felt like a lot more this year, right in the middle of the field and doesn't get a ton of help. Right.

You notice that too. It was just kind of like, Hey man, you're out there. Are you seeing any coverage? You saying up, up the middle of the defensive line? No.

Like where his alignment is. He's like playing Mike. It felt like he was an over an overhang player. A ton. When I watched him over summer. Yes. I saw him as a true middle linebacker on the games. his alignment is he's like playing mike it felt like he was an over an overhang player a ton when i watched him over summer yes i saw him as a true middle linebacker on the games i watched more this year i will actually write down the numbers when i get ready for the draft let's check i'd be actually very curious especially against especially against notre dame i was like oh they are really like really putting him right in the thick of it.

Even for a smaller linebacker, he is playing a spot that you would expect from a Jack Campbell kind of player that can bump, that can thump. I'm very curious to actually see the numbers. Bump the thump, baby. He played, let's see, three, no, he played 424 snaps as a box defender this year. Okay. He only played 219 last year because he played 88 snaps in the slot this year. And he played 239 last year.

So you are- Vindicated. Correct. Okay. When the eyes match the analytics, folks, you can blend them together. Despite one side of the internet telling you you don't need to watch the games, just look at the numbers, and the other side telling you that math is for nerds. You can blend them together and become a semi-competent human being, like I like to believe myself.

And become ungovernable so i mean he's such a unique player in a sense that i think he can be a huge boost in man coverage against tight ends running backs big slot targets in line tight ends he can run this with these dangerous tight ends in the nfl right now what you want i think honestly one of the most impressive aspects of his game that I watch when you're trying to translate what he's going to be dealing with at the NFL level is spying in the middle of the field and trying to contain these athletic quarterbacks. He can run and pressure and contain the Josh Allens of the world, the Lamar Jacksons of the world, Jalen Hurts,

Kyler Murray, Patrick Mahomes, Justin Herbert, Trevor Lawrence. These are the guys you need to find today. You need to find these guys that can run sideline to sideline. I have heard teams are actually evaluating or trying to project what he could do with more pass rush opportunities. They do think he could be somebody that could be more productive when given opportunities to rush off the edge and also play off-ball linebacker.

So I don't think this scheme did him a ton of favors production and grade-wise, but he's a great athlete. He plays a tenacious brand of football. We talked about it over the summer. He's the son of a decorated U.S. Army Ranger that served 17 overseas tours. And he has this no nonsense, tough guy mentality on the field that translates. I love the tape. I love the athletic profile of the player. I think he's going to have a huge combine. And I think there's a defensive staff out there that is you nailed it.

Their chess piece and Swiss Army knife, those things can be overused with him. I genuinely think this is a player that can do anything at an above average level. He, if there's a linebacker to bet on in this class, it's Trenton Simpson. Like if you ask me, if there's a linebacker that should go in the first round, it would be Trenton Simpson.

I didn't have a first round grade on him just because- Same, close. I think the coverage success is based more on his athleticism than it was coverage instincts. I don't think the instincts are terrible, but I thought that he was again, reacting more than he was anticipating.

And his athleticism was so good, especially against tight ends that he was often able to recover the way that you need to, to get your hands on some footballs and, and force really small throwing windows. So I think that's kind of where it came from. I also think that he gets bullied by blockers, you know, unless he's really getting a running start, unless he's timing it really well, unless he's like hitting a gap immediately

at the snap. If, if an offensive lineman gets him within the shoulders, like he's, he's getting pushed back pretty far. So he wasn't that kind of a player, like a Jack Campbell, who's just going to go reckless advantage straight India and really fill the, fill the run and take it to the blocker. But that's not really what he is. And that's probably, and that shouldn't be what you were drafting him to be. You know, you want him next to a more traditional between the tackles linebacker. And it's, I mean,

it's fun to have his tape next to Jeremiah Trotter juniors, who I, I feel obviously like haven't studied him a ton but from watching brazee from watching simpson from watching murphy like i think jeremiah tribe juniors gonna be a really damn good off-ball linebacker in next year's class and so uh maybe we'll look back on this tape and have both of those guys there and kind of look at that situation how good it was for clemson in the middle of that defense but yeah i just the athleticism is there in so many different ways it's it's the ability to cover he can flip the hips very well he can accelerate extremely well the pursuit uh speed is is best in

this class without a doubt um he can attack the line scrimmage they use him in a gap lits a lot they'll use him as an edge rusher like you mentioned uh very curious to see if the nfl would give him more chances about that. But he is, you know, all of those guys that we started the podcast talking about where it's like, okay, if you're going to stick an athlete in the middle and just kind of let him be an athlete, this is the guy that you would want to do that. Like, not in the Micah Parsons role.

Like, I'm not saying that as like an off-ball, on-ball, edge kind of hybrid roaming player. More of a true off ball that you could say all right you're gonna play in a lot of space you know you're gonna you know cover tight ends or you're gonna just cover a lot of ground this way you i love that you mentioned spying the quarterback because in a day and age where that is coming more becoming more and more paramount that's what makes me think somebody could convince themselves to draft Trenton Simpson in the first round.

Absolutely. Cause they can go, okay, look at all this potential. And maybe we will have this guy that could neutralize the Josh Allen's, the Jalen hurts, the whoever it is, who's the guys who are really great at picking up extra yards and first downs

with their legs. So I agree with you. He's my number one linebacker as well. If you're going to bet on any linebacker in this class, I feel like it's got to be Simpson. I think so. I just, man, I go back to him. I said it over summer. I just watch him and he really reminded me of Daryl Washington, who is a great player under Todd Bowles in Arizona. Unfortunately got himself into a ton of, you know, different problems, suspensions in the league, but that's what I saw on Trenton Simpson right away.

And I kind of saw it again when I watch him this year. And he'll be 21 on draft night. So this is definitely a player that is on the younger side in this linebacker class. You have a lot of, you know, multi-year player, or should I say senior level players in this group, whether it's, you know, Campbell's a senior, Toto is a senior. I guess that kind of brings us Trevor to the next point.

The guys that are outside the top five that we got to watch that, um, you know, are still going to get drafted. Of course, we didn't think the group, this group was that bad, but you know, for me, I, I know we each had one. Um, I did get to watch dorian williams i had him outside my top five but definitely in my top 10 a a good player there's no doubt about that and then who did i oh you're gonna watch hair big yeah who are a couple i feel like we're both gonna align on this one did you watch demarvia and overshown yeah i did i have him at six okay he's a six for me absolutely i had him at six as well and i was really kind of frustrated that i i couldn't get him at six. Okay. He's a six for me. Absolutely. I had him at six as well. And I was really kind of frustrated that I couldn't get him at five, but I just, I, I just like Toto a little better,

but I thought overshown had really good tape this year. Really, really good tape this year. And he, he's an interesting player because he's a, you know, a six foot four lanky or kind of guy, but I thought he was a tough guy in the middle of the field. Yeah. I just thought he was an all-around good player um he didn't i think the reason why i was kind of cool on him and why he i didn't end up having him over toto is because i just didn't really see a trump card in overshown's game and same like he's he's uniquely built and you could put him in a lot

of different situations and that's that's a great like that's a great depth player to have in your defense like you definitely want to draft a player like marvian overshown played special teams kickoff coverage unit yeah yeah he definitely did and maybe he could be a starting linebacker in the league i'm not saying that he can't but when i looked at it the reason why it's i think it's the same reason as you the reason why i went with toto over him is because when it comes to like true off-ball linebacker responsibilities I felt like Toto had a better approach to it just mindset to it like him and Jack Campbell I feel like we're just above the rest of the group as guys that played that true off-ball linebacker style so maybe I'm valuing that a little bit too much for Toto specifically I don't think I'm valuing it too much when it

comes to Jack Campbell but you could you could convince me to flip over shown and and um they're just they're just totally different players so i ended up having him at number six i got ivan pace in there as well uh i'm pace junior from cincinnati he's just a big bowling ball pass rusher man elite pass rusher this past year just send him straight at the line scrimmage man get him in on those bigger packages for uh for three linebacker looks and just let him attack the line scrimmage like that's that's all you got to do in the nfl that is a streamlined role of what he is going to be for sure absolutely he's uh the fire hydrant kind of of this crew yes and he's it's his usage at cincinnati was truly hilarious but effective and he did look good down in Mobile.

Obviously, there's a ton of guys in this class that'll be included in the full preview. You know, a fascinating guy is Carlton Marshall from Troy, who came in at five foot seven and three quarters at the Senior Bowl. But he's the all time FBS tackles leader. And was a walk on at Troy. Like this dude, every time he's doubted finds a way. So it'd be fascinating if we have a five foot seven linebacker make, make an NFL roster.

It's just an interesting group. We have to doubt him then we have to do it. We need to, we need to make a hater video, unfortunately for him. And then he could, he could retweet it when he makes a 53 man roster. We do. We need to make a hater video, unfortunately, for him. And then he could retweet it when he makes a 53-man roster. I know people are just going to ask, so I think we should... Oh, there's one I forgot. Yeah, go ahead. Well, two. I know where you're going. Let's do it.

So people are going to ask us about Noah Sewell for more. Of course they are. People are definitely going to ask about Noah Sewell. When we logged on, it was the first thing we talked about. Yeah. I don't, I don't know, man. No, you know, you know, you, you, if anything, you know, Sewell is so limited laterally.

He just, he's going to miss, he misses so many tackles now. He's going to miss so many tackles in the nfl and i don't really know what you do with him sitting at 250 like if you don't have him just blitzing at the line of scrimmage every time he's like i said he can't move well enough in coverage he can't flip his hips he can't put his foot in the ground and change direction so you can't really let him be a coverage guy even his a zone coverage guy, just because of the limited athletic ability. And then, even when he got in the backfield, there were a couple of times where he would win clean up the middle.

A gap, B gap, didn't matter. He'd shoot the gap well. He'd get right into the quarterback. These are quarterbacks we're talking about. I'm not even talking about the good dual-threat quarterbacks, and they would simply move to the left, and Sewell could not get his arms on him so i was disappointed man i was i was disappointed in noah swole and that's and that's a that's a

bummer because i want to like him but i don't know i just we're i'm gonna watch a couple more games of them but i don't think it's gonna look that different so i don't even i don't even know where you draft him like he's a day three player to me i thought so too uh i wrote down the last note i wrote is that he just if he wants to make it in the league he has to convert to be a situational pass rusher it's his only sure yeah i just thought the off-ball linebacker film was that rough that and to be fair he has flashes as a blitzer and a pass rusher. He's powerful because he's sitting there at 250. He's very powerful. He plays hard.

And you hear all those things and go, okay, he could probably play special teams, especially kick coverage units. But it was disappointing this year. There's no way around it because we talked a lot about him over the summer. A guy I did like that was left out of my top five, and he was number five for me over the summer in a very situational role is still Owen Papo. Owen Papo, nickname the freak, 6'1", 225. He had a 77.6 coverage grade this year, Trevor. He could very well run a 4'4", or under. I mean, his straight line speed is insane. I didn't think his lateral agility was that, but his straight line speed is very good.

He was coming off the ankle surgery in 2021, so you got to give him a little time. I wrote when he sees it, he could just detonate plays. I mean, but he's another guy that we talked about. A lot of these guys are playing linebacker, and a lot of them are guessing or getting lost in the traffic or really struggling to diagnose the run. And I wrote that he guesses because most of he's a middleweight fighter in a heavyweight arena. I mean, he's giving up a lot of pounds, bars, bars like that. Yeah, he's given up a lot of pounds in a lot of his matchups but my final no was i he's he could be a really good dime backer that gives

you athleticism in the middle of the field for those coverage situations be a special teamer here's my like not so serious but in a sicko way i would if i was a gm i'd be inquiring on this if i drafted him to be a special teamer and a dime backer, I think this dude can be a really good fullback at the next level. I really do. He's 6'1", 225, and he could legitimately run in the four threes. I'm just saying if you're a team that you don't want to carry a roster, a fullback on your 53-man roster, which a lot of teams don't, but you like to sprinkle it in four or five times a game, I think this guy could do it. Okay. I i love it that's some that's some mad scientist mad and i absolutely love it let us know what you guys thought of our linebacker rankings we know

that there are plenty of linebackers around the country who are fan favorites for a lot of people so we would especially love to hear from you on this podcast if you're watching on youtube let us know in the youtube comments uh if you want if you're audio only get us up on twitter at tamith bay trey at connor j rogers you can do the same thing on instagram if that's your main social media means of communication um i'm an idiot and i forgot to bring this up at the beginning of the podcast i mean i'm just as guilty well all right so we're switching to our new switch into a new channel we're switching to a new channel. We're switching to a new channel. We're not going to be on the PFF channel anymore.

We are getting our own channel. It is going to be a lot of fun. If you guys just love this podcast, it's going to be kind of like what Connor said in, in the last episode at the end of last episode, like it's going to give us the opportunity to do a lot more clips from the show, a lot more shorts from the show some extra content for you guys believe the channel is just youtube.com backslash nfl stock exchange that's it i think we secured it i can give you search on youtube check right now our name i'm gonna do the same as i you would think we would have done

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So no. Okay. So you have to hit, you have to do at, so it's youtube.com backslash at NFL stock exchange. And I think that gets you unless, unless I'm a fool. No, I think think you're good i think people will find us we might have to like link bomb our pff youtube video comments like the crypto spam does wait i don't even wait i don't even i don't even subscribe to the channel yet

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it's, it's the exact show that you know and love. Uh, we're going to be three days a week. It's going to be the same times a week, um, for now at least. And,

uh, it's just going to be on a new channel. Uh, it's going to be a cool way for us to give you guys more content, more in-depth stuff. Um, same main pods, but just a lot of a lot of new creativity which we're really really looking forward to we hope that you guys can

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Trigger the notifications. I'm going to get five star review. I'm going to get so annoying with that. Well, I mean, you can do that on iTunes too. I don't know if we've had a five star review. I'm going to get so annoying with that. Well, I mean, you can do that on iTunes, too. I don't know if we got a five star review in a while. I haven't. We we have to. We just have to do this because I mean.

Not to brag, but you go through some of our shows on PFF and there they have 40,000 views and I don't want to leave anybody behind. I want to take them. I want to put them all on my back and go, you're coming with us, buddy. Guys and gals. How do we do this? How do we reach these kids? I'm genuinely sweating this.

I'm going to be nervous. Like every time we have a video, it's like 31,000. I'm like, who doesn't know about the new channel? Someone doesn't. These are the things that keep me up at night. Well, tell your friends. That's what we need here. That's what we need.

We need you guys, the people, to spread the good word. YouTube.com backslash at NFL Stock Exchange. It is the NFL Stock Exchange exclusive channel. We're going to have so much great content for you guys starting on Monday. I think the Monday episode, we talked about it a little bit earlier today. It's going to be combine-centric, man. I think we're going to start getting people hyped up for the combine.

The initial combine list came out. We're going to talk about who we're excited about from every position. We're going to talk about who got absolutely snubbed. Yep, yep. Fogus. In there? Fogus.

I will go to the NFL offices in Manhattan and politely ask the clerk at the front desk can you give marty mapu an invite to the nfl combine and they'll be like sir please leave you're you're insane please go away is already on the way well we will escort you out we will see you guys on the new channel a new adventure that we are very excited about to go on that we are very excited to go on with you all i am trevor sigma that is connor rogers thank you guys so much for listening to the nfl stock exchange we'll see you guys on the new channel on monday Thank you.