NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 16. Guest Mock Draft With Jon Ledyard

Episode Date: February 28, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema is joined by special guest: Jon Ledyard of Pewter Report. The two reminisce on their Locked on NFL Draft days, hear all about Jon’s scouting philosophy and how he’s applying it to this class, plus run through his first mock draft of the year. 0:00 - Intro 2:40 - Overall thoughts on 2022 NFL Draft 36:50 - Jon Ledyard’s Mock Draft

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I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we are having a special guest. It is John Ledyard from pewterreport.com. He is coming on to break down his 1.0 mock draft. And

even though he works covering the Bucs year round, he's an NFL draft nut. If you know John, you know that he's been in the draft game for a long time. He's one of my favorite scouting minds that I've had the pleasure of getting to know really well over the last couple of years. For those who are old, locked on NFL draft fans, this has been a little bit of a blast from the past. We're going to have a lot of fun on this podcast, not just breaking down his new mock draft, but also his scouting philosophy, what goes into how he evaluates players, some guys that he's really high on, what he thinks about the class overall. It's going to be a good time. I'm Trevor Sykema. Let's get after it. What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the opening bell of the nfl stock exchange podcast i am

trevor sycamore but with me is not connor rogers if you guys listened to the podcast last week you know that i took a little bit of a mini february vacation before the combine now connor is doing the same thing so don't feel too bad for him. I know you guys are probably slandering my name in the comments, why I got a little vacation and he didn't well now he's gone enjoying some fun in the sun. So now we're even, but I do have a treat for you with Connor, not being here, had to go to the next best thing when it came to this podcast. And that is a locked on NFL draft reunion here on the show with my very good friend

John Ledyard. John I am so excited about this man you've been doing your thing at Pewter Report for a long time now covering the Bucs somehow getting Tom Brady to come down and win a championship in Tampa which I very much appreciate you for, but dude, we haven't done a full on draft podcast since the lockdown NFL draft days. And so, man, thank you so much for joining the show. This give you a blast. Oh, absolutely, man. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I'm very excited. Obviously.

I don't know quite as much about the draft yet as I used to probably at this time of year, but still a decent amount making my way through it. But I I've gotten some cheating off of you and Connor and what you've said on the podcast. And so I greatly appreciate those heads up and it's guided me a little bit to where I've been able to release my first mock draft and dip my toes in those horrendous waters that they call your first draft takes on social media. You know how that goes. So yeah, it's been, it's been a great week. I've loved it.

Well, as John said there, we're going to be talking a lot about his first mock draft that he was able to put out. He's just started to really dive into this class. And John is one of my favorite scouting minds that I could name. I mean, I started to work on Locked On NFL Draft because we started to be good friends.

And that was just because I followed him on Twitter for his draft takes. And so that was a lot of fun for me to get to have that old podcast with him so I'm super excited about this because John has a great eye for scouting for a lot of different positions for the class as a whole and John you are known as somebody who tells it like it is you're not going to sugarcoat a lot of stuff so if a position group sucks or if the class sucks I mean you are often one of the people who's not afraid to say that. So I know that people are really going to appreciate it. Obviously, we're going to do a little bit of reminiscing

here on this pod. We're going to have some chit-chat back and forth about the old lockdown NFL draft days. And for you guys who didn't listen to it, it's okay. That's why timestamps exist. You can go and check out when the actual mock draft talk starts and everything like that. Before we get too far into it too far into it gotta remind people that pff.com is where you could go for all of your premium stats for all of these players whether it's draft prospects or nfl players

we're going to be referencing a ton of that here on the podcast and if you don't have a subscription yet to get all those premium stats you can get 25 off if you sign up using the promo code nflse so if you don't have an either an edge and elite subscription, if you have one for the first time, if you want to upgrade, you can get 25% off right now. This is a fantastic deal. Use the promo code NFLSE. Check out all those premium stats that we're going to be talking about throughout the podcast. John, my boy, I feel like I had to just start it off like that. Just because most people, yeah, it's fine. Let's start by just talking about this class overall, man. I know that you're new-ish to it.

You're really just starting to get into it because you've been covering the Buccaneers and their playoff run and you'd be covering things on that angle. But when you look at this class, especially enough to be able to do a mock draft for the first time, I'm curious, what has really caught your attention?

Some players, some position groups and where you think this class might be really strong draft for the first time i'm curious what has really caught your attention some players some position groups and where you think this class might be really strong or maybe not so strong weakest yeah i mean i think the class overall the kind of sucks but there it is folks told you it was coming i told you it was no real talk. It sucks at the top, Trevor. Like it's the top. It's not very good. Like it's the top, but there's decent depth.

Like you're going to be able to find it's the opposite of last year's class. If you saw last year's class, there were like lots of blue chip players at the top. And it wasn't hard to recognize that if some of these quarterbacks get in situations that aren't trying to intentionally bury their careers, that top of that class is going to be one of the best we've ever seen and then the depth wasn't there really with a lot of other the positions as it went down some positions there were i mean there's certainly exceptions this class i feel like you've really and you've seen even daniel jeremiah i was actually kind of surprised he said it but he said like i think he said like six to 60 or something like that.

The degree of difference is not that great. And I think he's kind of right from what I've seen so far. I don't see a lot of elite blue chip. This guy's a star. Like I watched Aiden Hutchinson, really good player, David Ajabo. These guys are, you know, people are saying, oh, they'll go, they'll go first, you know, they'll go in the top 10. They'll go first overall for Hutchinson.

You know, I watched Kayvon Thibodeau, and I was like, oh, okay. These are guys that are talented or good. But you put them against guys like Myles Garrett or Chase Young or some of those other guys. I don't think they're those guys. So that's what I mean when I say top of the class. I don't think the whole class is bad. I just think if you're looking for premier, blue chip, elite prospects, I don't think this is quite the just think that if you're looking for like premier blue chip elite prospects i don't

think this is quite the class for that one i think that you know obviously the quarterback narrative being what it is with this class doesn't help right because i think we often if we can build an nfl draft class around a really good quarterback class then we can start to convince ourselves like okay like i'll take the top corner here the top edge rush here the top offensive tackle here and then you go oh like it's it's pretty nice at the top but without those quarterbacks to really be the backbone of this class or something to prop these guys up I think there's a lot of uncertainty and with uncertainty people often realize that okay maybe there's not the difference makers that we thought and you know we're going to get into how many options

are at number one overall when we really dive into your mock draft but you know have you seen let's just say i don't know two three four players that you've been able to get your eyes on you mentioned hutchinson there by name you said he's a really solid player but there have been a handful of players in this class that you've watched already that you've been like okay i really like this guy even if you're not saying that they're a far and away a number one overall pick or a top three pick just somebody that you might have watched that you really like in this class yeah there's a couple guys that i've seen that i really enjoy certain things about their game you know hutchinson is one of them because i love seeing players grow in terms of what their

skill set is if you watch hutchinson at the beginning of the year trevor you obviously saw a good player everybody knew he's a good player at the beginning of the year but people didn't know that he was going to be, Oh, he could be the number one overall pick. It was kind of like, he's a fringe first rounder. You know, you do your early mocks and he's in there obviously the first round. Cause you only know like 32 names at that point, or like, it only looks like there's 32 prospects at that point when you're doing those

early mocks, but he wasn't like, Oh, this guy could be the first round. Like this guy could be like mouse Garrett type territory. And I don't think you get into that range when you're watching them, even on tape now, but watching him at the beginning of the year and watching him at the end of the year, which I know he's an order a little bit older than some of the guys he went up against. But I mean, we're still talking about a guy who just figured out one of the most important things a guy with his limitations can figure out. He's never going to be the most bendy guy like like like Kayv is like, they're not going to be the same basically in that way. There's going to be some differences, but the one thing about Hutchinson that he had to figure out, he had to become maximize your first step,

maximize everything about your first step, first step. And early in the year, he has a huge false step. You can see it. He's working from a two point stance. I know early in his career, there was some three point stance stuff. He played inside some, still getting used to it probably to a degree, although he'd done it before. And he was lifting that first foot on his pass rush get off. He was lifting it and putting it back down in place and kind of like stomping like a bull basically like, but it wasted, you know, a good half a second and that's everything in NFL speeds. You know that. So when you're projecting him out, you're saying he needs that get off. Cause if he's going to

threaten the edge, it's not going to be because he can bend and run under a table at full speed. It's going to be because his first step is that explosive. So when he fixed that, I mean, he gave Ohio state the work after that. He gave Iowa the work after that. Haven't seen the Georgia game yet, but like dudes could not block him. And then when they started over setting, because he was so explosive off the ball, he started just crossing their face, going inside, going inside, crossing their face. block him and then when they started over setting because he was so explosive off the ball he started just crossing their face going inside going inside crossing their face and it was really hard for guys to stop him it's a little bit tricky in college because you always want our guys just jumping the snap because they don't change the cadence as much right our guys jump in the snap

what's happening here i really don't think he's jumping the snap driver i think hutchinson might have one of the best first steps we've seen from a college prospect. But the problem is, I don't think a lot of people would say that because they watch them throughout the year and it's hit or miss. The end of the year, when you could see he stopped doing that false step and he started just erupting straight out of his stance and not wasting any movement or time, it was a huge difference maker. I mean, he beat Ojabo out of his stance every single time.

I think it can be one of those trump card traits for him, even if the other stuff for him isn't maybe at the level we've seen from top pass rushers in the past. Dude, that's high praise for Hutchinson in his first step. There's not a lot of people who would take, I think, that attribute of his game and boast it the most because a lot of people, and I think they kind of oversimplify it, right? When they look at Kayvon Thibodeau and they look at Autchinson and um they look at kind of their pass rush profile and how they win

they say okay well kvon's obviously much more athletic than hutchinson and i don't think it's necessarily the case because you remember aiden hutchinson was on bruce feldman's freak list like this dude is a real athlete and i think that he's going to surprise a lot of people at the combine but kvon wins in ways that are just a little bit different. He's, he's so flexible with his athleticism. You mentioned running under a table, having that bend, that ankle flexibility, to go around the edge and attack the outside shoulder, really give people fits with his speed runs. But man,

it goes even further than just how he was able to grow this past year. You go back three years ago and what he was when he was kind of just getting into the mix of the rotation with michigan with you know josh uj and quitty pay and um i think i said this on the podcast before but i can't remember if marie's hearse was on that group but like they were throwing hutchinson in that mix and he was just kind of trying to figure out how to make the most of his body, his size, his length and everything. And he said, okay, you're too a little bit more controlled, a little bit more knowledgeable on how to win.

And I think this past year, you really saw him find a bit of mastery in what he was doing. Not to say that he can't get better at the NFL level, but he really succeeded as much as you possibly would have seen him succeed at the college level. So Hutchinson is a good one. Who's another? Yeah, I think he's one of the first guys that stood out to me. there's a couple other guys that I've watched that I've really been impressed with there's one guy I got to save it for later that I think a player I think I'm higher on than most I'm going to save him okay but that's one I know I know you're going to ask me a little bit later

so I'm going to save one I think Charles Cross is really good I mean people are going to overthink it and I already heard the Andre Dillard thing get thrown out there i mean you got to measure who the dude is i don't know who the dude is like as a person i don't know him and that's a factor with dillard like he's a really nice guy apparently and you know nfl teams wondered if he had that nastiness in him because he didn't really run block in college very much and now it's like seems like it's kind of played out that way like but physically i don't think charles cross is i think he's way nastier on tape than dillard was dillard was picture perfect smooth pass center but there you know

you need that physicality you just need it i don't think crosses lacks that physicality just because they didn't run the ball very often and he doesn't have a lot of run blocking reps i mean he's zone only run blocker right now so obviously there's going to be maybe some scheme things but i don't know man like the one thing he needs to fix is he just needs to get out of a stance faster. And usually I think that's fixable. Like he's explosive. He just doesn't move on time. Right.

I think if he can do that and get out of his stance on time, I mean, the only way anybody beats him is if they beat him out of the, off the ball, they guess the snap count, they beat him off the ball and they get to the edge on him. But he has all the range you want all. I mean, strike timing is perfect. Balance is perfect balance is perfect you can't really go through him you'll hardly ever see guys cross his face inside hand is so strong he's just got a ton of great traits if i knew the guy was wired the right way if i as an nfl team

was like he's wired the right way he's tough he's nasty wants to come in and be a tone setter like i would take him high like i don't know i haven't i haven't finished the other tackles as much yet i know evan neal's a beast i haven't finished the other guys as much yet but i would take him high like i don't know i haven't i haven't finished the other tackles as much yet i know evan neal's a beast i haven't finished the other guys as much yet but i would take charles cross high just because he has traits that area of the game you need him in pass protection well i mean mike renner agrees with you mike renner i believe he's got charles cross well i'm glad that he's right for once yeah it's his top offensive his top offensive tackle all mike renner slander. Fully welcome on this podcast.

We're kidding. We're kidding. We love Mike. But no, he loves the athleticism. He loves the mold there. So many pass sets coming for that Mike Leach offense. He's got a lot of experience in that regard there. You're right.

I think getting out of his stance is definitely something that he needs to get better with. But he shows that it's not for lack of athleticism it's something that you hopefully can just fix with him because you don't want to get beat off the ball in the nfl because if you're getting beat off the ball in college it's only gonna get worse when the first steps get a lot better the explosive gets a lot better but i think he can hang man i think he's a really good offensive tackle and you'd be hard pressed to find a mock draft at this point in time that has charles cross going anywhere later than certainly the top 10 but basically number six overall with Carolina Panthers

because they need an offensive tackle so bad. So Charles Cross makes a lot of sense there. Anybody else? I got another one for you. Okay. I got another one for you. Lewis Sign. I'm saying the last name right, correct?

Georgia Safety. I think it's Seen. Is it Seen? Somebody yelled at me for saying Seen on our pod, and they said it was Sign, so maybe it is Seen. I don't know what it is, but Lewis Seen. i think it's seen i think it is seen connor that dude's a connor connor has also asked this question on this very podcast when he also highlighted lewis scene so you're in good company not just with the scouting eye but also not knowing how to

pronounce the guy's last name so c-i-n-e like yes i i think it's fine i think it's kenny let's just call him kenny there's a soft h in there chime kind it was kind anyway whatever his name is he's baller dude i mean he hits people he's big he's fast and he processes quickly too he's going to be a strong safety in the nfl he's not going to be a traditional single high safety for so for schemes like that if you're looking to replace a marcus williams or replace a jesse bates or replace a quandary digs he's not going to necessarily do what those guys do at an elite level because he's not like a ball skills range guy but he can move for sure. And you've seen a matchup

in man coverage in wind. Not many safeties can go in man coverage in the slot and throttle down with receivers at the top of the route and look for the ball. He's done that on tape. That's a really encouraging sign for a strong safety because there's lots of molds. We say strong safety, but there's molds like Vaughn Bell who are pretty much just box defenders who have to be in an underneath zone, like a linebacker, like they have to be in the right scheme to survive and then there's strong safeties who like okay malcolm jenkins he's a strong safety but he can kick back and play two high shells he can match up on the slot against tight ends like all day and every match a big wide outs like you give you a lot more you know what i mean so it's a one it's a it's a term but

underneath that umbrella are a lot of different variations. And to me, sign, scene, kind, kind, whatever you want to load his name is. He seems like the kind of guy that would be, I think he's going to be a lot more versatile driver. I think he's going to have like, he'll be able to step in the slot and you'll see him match up against tight ends. He lowers the boom in the run game and he looks for the football, very physical, very aggressive.

And he's been playing in that defense too as a communicator and so i think that that's a really good sign in the nfl you come from a group like that if he can test well and he looks good on tape in that regard we know george has had some some athletes bomb the testing or not do as well in testing in years past that we hope they would and so i hope he's not one of those guys but yeah he he looks like a player on tape who first comes to your mind when you think of that mine's elijah holyfield elijah holyfield isaac nauda do you remember him riley ridley oh my gosh now i was getting that top three round hype then ran the flat four nine three or whatever it was like oh okay hold on i gotta i gotta riley ridley i Riley Ridley was a bad one. I'm pretty sure the Baker, DeAndre Baker ran slow too. I totally forgot about this.

Okay. All right. Isaac now does combine. The highest percentile. He competed in basically every single drill. The tight end from Georgia came out in 2019. He competed in basically every drill. And the highest percentile one that he

had was the bench press. It was 40. It was the 41st. Never a good sign. First of all, it doesn't really even matter. If you're only good at that, you're basically me. So not a great athlete, three cone drill, 12th percentile, vertical, vertical jump, seventh percentile, 40 yard dash, 18th percentile, hand size, 17 arm length, 11 wingspan, 15 weight, 15 weight 14 height 24 60 yard shuttle 23 that's one of the worst combines the good news trevor is that on his spider graph he got a bullseye the bad news is that's bad dude you want a web on that thing you don't want a bullseye so

it was a rough go for isaac oh boy okay yeah no you're right i don't think that that's going to be the case for lewisine i think that he's going yeah i agree with you by the way nicobe dean i don't think he's gonna run fast i like him i'm not saying i don't like him but i don't know people i don't know if that's a hot take for people that's what i've heard though i think he's he's his speed is one of them we we haven't done the full combine preview because we're going to get to that later in the week. Connor and I are going to. But N'Kobe Dean is one of those players that I'm really interested to see how he tests because he explodes really well, especially when he's blitzing, man.

His timing is so great. He moves. He basically goes from, I'll say, like zero to 30 really fast. and then like his legs are churning the whole time but i don't know if he's getting up from 30 to i don't know when he's getting to 30 to 60 that's a good way to put it and i don't i don't know i don't know if he's getting to 60 so he's got the governor on him the governor just stops him at 40 and i'm very curious because he look he is a smaller body frame so the limbs are shorter. The legs are shorter. The everything is shorter. So like a lot of these guys that are taller that might also have speed with

athleticism, like their legs are churning and they're covering more ground. That's how a lot of these guys get to be faster and have slower times. It gets covered more ground that way. And Colby Dean's just not like that. When you look at him, you go, okay, he's a little bit undersized as a linebacker. It's not just from a physical standpoint like taking on blocks it also has to do with sideline to sideline stuff now there's enough clips out there of him playing to the sideline really well that i i don't i i would not call him slow i'm just very curious to see what he runs so i'm glad that you brought that up because i i am in the same camp with you that's the one guy who i'm sure a lot of guys on that defense you want to see their athleticism and there's some question but i mean devante why you want to see athleticism jordan davis you don't

care as much because you know what he is but if why it is upside he's gonna go high yeah i mean devante's gonna kill it i think yeah i think that's what i'm doing great uh you got a favorite position to scout i don't know if i've ever asked you this question before, and I figured just having you on the podcast, you, you do this so well. So I'm curious. Yeah. I mean, it's something about the way that they grip the ball, rip it tight spirals. They get down in their position. I just think long snappers are incredible. Like what they do,

the dexterity, the flexibility, I would watch them all day. I mean, might only be two draft. I don't know. Anyway. No, I think my favorite position to draft is always going to be edge defender. Like I just love watching that position. Maybe it's because I feel like I've kind of like, I've spent the most time studying it. So I feel like I know it the best. I've also developed like an actual system by which to like grade them on. Like I always start with four things trevor i

look for pass i call them the four pillars of pass rush athleticism i'm the i'm what a nerd dude what a nerd the four pillars of i mean like this is embarrassing the four pillars of pass rush here's the four pillars of pass rush this means you have a process though like dude i can't tell you how many times i'm sure you get this all the time as well. Like people ask for a lot of like our categorical scouting process. And so this is fantastic. I know that people were listening. They're not going to think you're a nerd. They're going to be writing down what you're saying. They're going to be trying to, you know, tweak it themselves and everything.

So, all right. Maybe both. Maybe both. What are the four pillars of pass rush? Okay. So the four pillars of pass rush athleticism are burst off the ball. Your first step, you know, how quickly you get off the ball and react to the snap. Somethrough athleticism are burst off the ball, your first step, how quickly you get off the ball and react to the snap. Some people don't react quickly to the snap, but when they do react, it's quick.

So you have to have both kind of, if you can't marry both over a consistent period of time, then it really doesn't matter how fast you're off the ball if you don't move when the ball is snapped, like your reaction might just suck. So I look for that one. I look for speed up the arc. So can you continue that burst that you have in your first step when your next several steps so hutchinson for example i think he has elite

burst off the ball once he cut that false step out i think he has elite burst off the ball after that his stride length is not quite as big like so i don't think he's got great speed but it's more than adequate speed enough so he can threaten the edge right there like so those are the first first thing is burst off the ball second thing is speed up the arc if you can maintain that burst off the ball enough to be able to threaten the edge to get outside on the outside hip of the tackle third thing is like bend and flexibility that displays itself in two types in my opinion bend in your hips so you can bend through under contact and dip your shoulder and get underneath guys like that in your hips or the other way is you could tilt the edge.

I think of a guy like Yannick Ngakwe. He doesn't really bend. He keeps himself straight, and he's just kind of horizontal to the ground, and he just leans, but he runs on like the sides of his feet and turns corners. It's really weird, and not many guys do that. But Chandler Jones is another one. Like Chandler Jones doesn't really bend under guys. He just kind of tilts his whole body and just leans like this when he's rushing. He's just kind of fully tilted. So bending and tilting

basically are, but I put them both under the flexibility category. That's the third pillar. And then the fourth one is change of direction. So I think you need to be able to threaten tackles on their outside hip. Like if you can't in college, if you can't show that skillset, there are not a lot of pure edge rushers who play most of their snaps on the edge, who can't win the edge consistently with burst speed or bend flexibility that are great pass rushers on the outside. Primarily they have to move inside where there's a more linear path to the quarterback, where their hands are going to be more deadly, their length, all of those things. There's other great traits, but if you

can't win outside primarily, it's hard to win primarily as a power rusher off the edge in today's NFL. There's just not many guys that line up there every snap and win that way. And it's hard to win as an inside counter guy. Like Leonard Floyd found that out, right? He, in college, he was only just trying to cross dudes faces. That's all he did was just run three steps up and then jump inside. Like that's all he did. And it's hard to win that way consistently NFL. So if you win that way all the time in college, a la Andrew Rebekite from Penn state, I think that you're going to have to be able to show and prove to me, you've got the tools and traits and band and flexibility and burst and things like that to be able to win outside. So the fourth one is change

of direction because once you've proven you can win the outside, you could, you have the burst, you have the bend and flexibility. You have some of the, the, the, the speed to carry that up the arc. The last one to me is, can you stop? Can you change direction and get back inside? Because if you can do that, I mean, you could win outside and you go inside and then they're never going to be ready when you try to go through them. So those are really important ones in my opinion. I think you need all, you don't need all four of them to be great, a great rusher i just named some that don't you know i wouldn't say chandler jones is the bendiest edge rusher but he knows how to right he makes good use of

what he has and i think david ajabo is gonna have to do some of that too you know he's his reps where he's bursting off the ball he's really hard to stop and so you have kind of sort through the traits with different guys but some guys like miles garrett have them all and you know it's just it's it's a wrap. Yeah. And I mean, it's a little bit, it's a little bit like corner, right? People will be like, Oh, like who are your top corners in the class? And it's funny, you know, we're going to go through that exercise here on this very podcast where you

have a linear ranking for guys. And, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to probably at some point going to have, I don't know, a corner four is going to be a purely man coverage corner and corner five is going to be like his own dude. Right. And it's, and it's like, you look at those guys and they're both good. They just win in so many different ways. I just love the phrase that you had there. He has to know what he's good at a space. You know, he's got to, he's got to make do with what he's got, even if you will. So a lot of guys, sometimes it's not even about having all the tools. It's how to deal with

the tools or maximize the tools that you do have. That's what ends up making a good pass rusher and so i think that those are all really great points and even if you don't have to have all of those things to be a great edge rusher you do have to have some combination of them and then you have to know how to use that properly so i think that those go ahead go ahead i was just gonna say it's the difference between pure athleticism like some people will say oh he's athletic as an edge rusher that's great you know he can run a great 40 for being as big as he is that's awesome but like pass rush athleticism is different like your 40 doesn't really matter that much to me although you being athletic is always good but you what is your speed over 10 yards what is your speed over five six seven yards you know what i mean like what is your what is your three cone that matters to me way more than what your shuttle is necessarily. Like, I don't really care if you're

able to run 10 yards and then turn and run the other way. Like if you have to do that, your DC messed up, your coordinator messed up. So that's what I mean by pass rush athleticism. I think athleticism is so important, but the way it specifically applies to your position is so important to understand for each position in the NFL. I think functional athleticism is the term that I like a lot more, right? Can you, can you, and that's often what we do with the combine, right? You and I talk about this, Connor and I have talked about it the last couple of weeks on this podcast is we have gotten prepared for the combine. Can you take what you're seeing in those testing? And let's say that a guy runs faster or quicker or jumps further than you thought he was

going to can you point to that on tape can does he make that athleticism that he has functional does he win with it because if he doesn't don't really matter and i think that's a that's a good way to kind of point it out there i'm very surprised actually that you didn't go with off-ball defensive tackle for your favorite position. I mean, that's actually a good point. The only reason, Trevor, that I didn't mention this is because it's such a small sample size. Like, there's only been one in the history of this great NFL draft

that we love to scout, and Oliver is still the only one that I thought, you know what, I'd take this guy over Jonathan Abram. He's the only one that I thought you could rank that way. That's a little inside joke for old Locked on NFL Draft listeners. I'm sure if you were listening to the podcast at the time, you remember the clip. If you haven't, I think you can search our Twitter handles and just the word Ed Oliver or just the word off-ball defensive tackle, off-ball DT, and you can watch us have a good time.

We've not revisited that, Trevor. We never revisited that on the pod because we haven't done a full – like how ridiculous was that? I mean, that was a real thing. Like Ed Oliver was getting worked out at linebacker. So that's what it actually stemmed from, folks. People didn't know what to do with Ed Oliver was getting worked out at linebacker. So that's what it actually stemmed from, folks. People didn't know what to do with Ed Oliver so badly, if you will, that they were going to work this clear defensive lineman out at a linebacker

with linebacker drills because they didn't know what to do with them. And so we have – He's just so athletic. How many 290-pound linebackers are there in a day? The idea was just hilarious. It was just classic, like, overthinking the draft. Now, teams knew they were going to play him a D-tackle. I think they just wanted to see how he moved when they asked him to do a linebacker drill,

just to be like, how much of a freak is this guy? But, like, there was interpretation of that, I think, that was like, they might actually, like, move in positions. That was just, like, the idea of Ed Oliver, who isn't even tall, by the way, go under the linebacker height standards and way over the weight, just dropping into coverage. Yeah. Carrying the seam in Tampa.

He's dropping from a one tech up with the tight end vertically. It's just Ed Oliver churning up between the safeties, putting the hand up. If you haven't seen the clip, if you haven't seen the original clip, please go search our Twitter handles and just off ball defensive tackle. You'll get to see us.

Well, you'll get to see me gasp for air. Cause I don't know if I've ever laughed that hard in my life before we get to your, before we get to your mock draft, you tease it there. I want to, I want to ask it to you. Who is one prospect so far in this class? I know you have a lot of guys to watch, but somebody you think you are highest on as opposed to what the consensus is. And then maybe the lowest on when it comes to the consensus i don't know if i'd say i'm highest i'm not sure where the consensus is enough like

i try not to read too many other people's stuff because i don't want it to muddy my thought process before i've had a chance to really get into it and you know like i'll tend to just like say what i'm thinking what i think about a guy rather than what like i know like if i know it's a hot take i won't stop me necessarily from saying it to me, I'll just stick right in wide receiver for people. I really think Traylon Burks is the best wide receiver in this class. Like I don't really have it that close between him and anybody else, to be honest with you, Trevor. Like, I just think he's, his tape is awesome, but he's also like incredibly big. He's incredibly explosive. He makes contested crazy catches. He's got like 11 plus inch hands.

He just absolutely just envelopes the ball. I mean, I really am surprised that it, I look around and I don't see him as the consensus number one at the one position. Cause I'm pretty much done with wideouts. I have looked around a little bit at that one and I'm, I'm surprised like at some of the people he's behind, I know that he needs to improve as a route runner and he played a lot from the slot, but this is like the AJ Brown thing,

except we actually have reps of Traylon Burks on the outside. Like he was like, what, 40 reps this past year, something like that, 39. And dude, he just killed people. Like he was just destroyed people. Like, I mean, I mean, it was like, Oh, this small sample size, but yeah, like 10 of the plays are absurd on the outside just blowing by guys at like 225 230 pounds i've been told he's gonna run four three somebody even i don't know he won't run four twos no he's no if he runs four threes it'd be crazy no he physically can't uh he's not dk but my's- My soul is going to leave my body if he touches anything even unofficial on the four twos.

Finally. But I do think that Traylon Burks could really threaten something in the four threes. I think officially he's probably going to run low four fours just because I have to think logically within the balance of what is capable for the human body. I can't allow myself to think that it's going to get any higher than that. He's dude like no he's he's awesome he he he is and i think

that you know you're bringing up the aj brown point is a good one you're bringing up dk metcalf a lot of people bring him up as well because he's so unique right and that was the thing about metcalf is metcalf was different because he was an outside wide receiver obviously so like the position was a little bit different but i remember you and i were working for the draft network when we were going through that process and it was just like yeah he's not gonna like separate like other wide receivers you might want to like if you're looking for him to be keen and alan he's not but like ask him to run a nine or a comeback or just something on a vertical plane and he he he can't be covered he won't be covered and also yeah people people are thinking too trevor like you don't it's not dancing with the

stars like you don't want to be out there like i don't like they look at i don't think the 20 really matters for wide receivers like people look at the 20-yard shot like i i don't think it really like if dk metcalf moves at his size right a four three speed vertically it don't matter if you take 10 seconds to turn, like that corner's going deep and you're breaking it off and it's over. You're open. Like I just, people just, I don't know. That stuff doesn't matter. Like if you can move at that speed at his size, you're going to get open on any route. Like you are like, to me, that goes back to the functional athleticism. Look at how DK Metcalf wins. Okay. He won

vertically and everything that he showed at the combine showed not just him winning vertically but him dominating vertically of what he was able to do and guess what he did when he got in the nfl he dominated vertically and he still does and that's what he does and that's the thing like if he was a shifty receiver who was winning with change of direction and quickness. Yeah. Okay. The, the, the, the three cone and the short shuttle and those things like matter, but for DK, it didn't. So I very, very intrigued to see what Traylon Burks is going to do because a lot of

people talk his athleticism up a lot. And one guy that people have over him is Drake London. And that's the one I would say that I'm lower on than consensus. Like, wow. You know, this we've talked about a little. What's that? No, I get off the pod. I'm cutting your mic all right here we go thanks for watching everybody i got you don't think he's gonna run fast i got jake london's wide receiver one and i have lund i have uh burks at three because i had george pickens at two uh yeah so this is good like i'm speaking like you're exactly the type of audience i'm trying to talk to right now. And I say like, it's these fools out here,

putting Drake London over Traylon Burks. They get me feeling some type of way, this draft class. No, I do like, like, there's some things about Drake London. I like, I'm not like out on Drake London. I don't like hate Drake London, but when I see him drop mocked in the top 10, I just, I will be surprised if Drake London goes in the top 10. I've, you know, I've, i've been told he would run in the four sevens i've been another person i checked out with some other people and they were like

he's not fast but he'll probably run four five four fives yeah there's no way he's running four sevens he's not fast buddy like and he's not my given size this four7 is slow. Slow. I don't think he's that slow. But he is slow. I don't think he's that slow. Man, look. Vertically. If he's, okay, look, if he runs into 4'7s, then obviously, like, I have to reconsider.

Because right now, I think he is a. If he runs into 4'6s, will you reconsider, a la Calvin Harmon? A little bit, yeah. I mean, like, I think right now that he's a mid four fives like high four fives guy i i do and so if he runs anything slower than that then unfortunately i'm like okay now obviously the strengths of his game that i like they're still there but when you are that limited when it comes to being able to stretch the field vertically then that becomes an issue.

Even if, even if he he's always going to be a contested catch wide receiver, that doesn't get any worse, but his ability to be maybe more than that, I think changes if he runs something in the right. We'll see. Yeah. It's not a knock on him,

but his ability to be a contested catch receiver will get worse in the NFL, not because of him, but because corners ball skills in the NFL, not because of him, but because corners ball skills in the NFL, it's one of the biggest things that changes when you get to the league. Like I think he's so dominant to where he's still going to be able to make his bread and butter off of it. I really, I wouldn't be surprised if he could still win that way. But again, like I think when you win, when you win on the vertical plane, as much as

he does, like he's not necessarily running every single route in the book getting open all over the field from every alignment he's pretty much in the same place in the same every snap he's pretty much at the same spot on the field outside the numbers outside receiver left side of the formation like they don't move him around a time yeah but that's not on him because no no it's not early early his early tape he was even a big slot dude like they play him in the slot that's where he probably will be in the nfl i think if he runs as slow as i think he'll run i think he'll be a big slot in the nfl so i might be a total hater i think that he can make great contested catches but when you're always making contested catches there's a reason like and one reason is slovis's arm is absolute trash the other reason is that he's always covered just because

he's he doesn't get separation vertically I think so he's unbelievable I guess unbelievable how often they connect on back shoulder throws like in in some back shoulder jump balls I just think it's going to get a lot harder in the NFL when nobody respects your speed because everybody's super fast no no doubt about it his I mean his 40 is going to be everybody and their mother is going to have binoculars on whatever the time is going to be, whether you're watching in person or you're watching. And the other thing he's, he's not that big. Like people compare them to Mike Evans and I'm not really sure why Mike Evans

might be the most understood you. We know this because I cover the box and you cover the box in our box fan. I mean, Mike Evans got, might be the most understood, misunderstood wide receiver in the league. Like he's, he was 235 pounds running a 40-yard dash 453 452 at the combine like that's freakish no receivers out here 230 he's not one to make that big so he's a unicorn yeah no i'm totally with you all right let's get to your mock draft i mean you teased a little bit there with drake london not being a top 10 pick let's get to the actual mock draft

picks you had but actually before we do that um gotta tell you guys about all 22 our friends pff over at all 22 are unveiling the newest fantasy football game that hundreds of pff employees have been playing i did the draft at the beginning of last season and i can't tell you how much fun it was all 22 uses weekly pff grades as one of its main scoring components and test your ability to build a full 53 man roster offensive line included. So it's like fantasy football, but you're drafting all positions and you're actually going off of how they perform, not just the stats that they get. If you've ever dreamed of sitting in an NFL front office,

and if you enjoy the scouting process, you're going to want to check out this all 22 join the wait list on all dash 22.com with nothing more than your email. That's all you got to do to sign up. If you join the wait list before the NFL draft, you'll receive a special promo for your code to get the all 22 subscription wait list. Users will even gain access to premium content like the inaugural draft guide

in season strategies, more announcements and feature releases that we're going to have there as well. Be sure to follow all 22 at all 22 underscore PFF on Twitter, all 22, less fantasy and more football. It's really cool guys. We're going to be telling you about guys about that. I think throughout the draft season, cause I hope you guys get into it. Cause it was a lot of fun to do that draft. It was a fantasy. I mean, it's really cool, man. And I know that we're working on it and we're making it as, as, as good and as realistic as it could possibly be. But it's that fantasy football feeling, but for an entire team.

So it was really, it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun to be in the draft with a lot of people. So I'm definitely in on that. You guys got to, you guys got to be on the lookout for that. Your mock draft 1.0 over pewterport.com. Everybody go check it out.

You have Evan Neal, the offensive tackle from Alabama going number one overall. And we teased it a little bit at the beginning of the show where it's like, okay, there's no consensus here. There's a lot of players. There's probably more players than we think that are in the pool to potentially go number one overall. You landed on Evan Neal. Talk to me a little bit about Neal going number one overall and then your thoughts behind what the Jaguars could do with that pick. They can do a couple things.

I mean, they could talk. They could go Hutchinson. They could go Thibodeauau they could do a bunch of different things i mean it wouldn't be like it's weird to me at least um having said that mike caldwell coming from todd bowles like todd bowles obviously got the edge rushers now but you know kind of inherited some of those like i mean that's not necessarily like something when he was with the jets they didn't necessarily build around those guys and right now he's got josh Allen Caldwell does as he goes to Jacksonville and he's got Josh Allen and he's got, I don't know if Caleb and Jason, if he's anything, we don't know. I mean,

he's dropping into coverage more than he's rushing these days. So who knows, but it doesn't look promising for him, but maybe you want to work with those guys. Maybe you don't see it as a huge need right at the top of the draft. Maybe you do. And you take one of those guys, but you know, left tackle is a big need. Ken Robinson's about to hit free agency. They've got a couple other free agents up front, Norwell,

the left guard as well. So, I mean, they've got to look at their options there and kind of say, okay, we, do we want to have a chance here to, there's a couple of good tackles. We could get one of these top guys. You know, I think the top three guys look pretty good that everybody, I mean, even there's even questions with I think a little bit about like the pass sets and everything like that, translating to the NFL a little bit similar to what there was with Becton in some ways. So I think, little bit about like the pass sets and everything like that translating to the NFL, but similar to what there was with Becton in some ways.

So I think, you know, you look at the top of the draft, you say there might be one all around surefire guy in the minds of some people with Evan Neal and let's get them and let's make them Trevor Lawrence's left tackle. And let's build from there. Like, I don't know, that seems like a really good process to me because I think they need offensive line out. They need to seal up that spot. You hope that the new regime can get more out of taylor the right tackle and you hope from there like they can continue to build things in the right direction i think yeah i agree with you and i think that that's the right pick a lot of the mock drafts that i've done

recently have had neil at number one overall and you know if if i think that some people you know whether they're jags fans or just draft fans they'll say well don't pigeonhole't pigeonhole yourself into an offensive tackle, like take the best player available. And I do hear you, especially for a team that is devoid of talent and played as poorly as the Jaguars have, like you want to take the best player available. But if everything is decently, even as you kind of explain there, protecting Trevor Lawrence is something that goes into the equation. Setting up the best offensive line you can is something that goes into the equation. So I land on Evan Neal there as well. You've got Aiden Hutchinson going to the Lions. You got Kyle Hamilton going three to the Texans. Cave on Thibodeau, four to the Jets. Jets fans will be happy about that. I had them passing on Thibodeau on my last mock,

and oh boy, weren't really happy about that one. Connor almost threw me under the bus and just backed the bus straight over on the podcast and we were talking about it but uh he's probably ticked he's been waiting for an edge rusher since john abram man no he has and connor was uh probably nicer than he needed to about it but he said he gets it with offensive line because i had them taking uh ikea kwanu and making that kind of the same thoughts that uh you have with he had backed in right with with and elijah fair tucker right just some road graders out here but um yeah so i want to go down you got

charles cross going six number seven i want to ask you about this one because you and i have had this conversation before you get the new york giants at number seven you have them taking linebacker devin lloyd and i think that lloyd objectively would be a really nice fit when it comes to roster necessity and something that they I think really need at the center of their defense but the off-ball linebacker position I didn't say off-ball defense attack I almost did I thought about it but that off-ball linebacker position you and I have talked a lot about is it worth a top 10 pick you have Devin Lloyd going number seven overall here obviously the class is a little

bit more up and down than I think it normally is but what do you what's the kind of the thought process with lloyd here at number seven i think the only time that teams really feel like it's worth it is when the linebacker's name is devon and other than that i don't know devon white devon bush devon lloyd like other than that it's like forget this position it's If you, if you have, if you have a, you know, if you have a kid and you want to make it the NFL linebacker named Devin, just choose that name wisely. Parents. Let's just, just telling you right now. I don't know. We'll see what happens with Devin Lloyd. I've only seen a little bit, to be honest, I need to see more of them on tape.

I probably will do linebackers last again this year. Cause I just, the bucks are probably unlikely to draft one, but I'll still do them. And I'll probably watch Lloyd and, and, and, and Dean in, in depth and scout them very soon and actually grade them out. I haven't finished grading him yet, but I see a guy who has the ability to do everything when I watch him and he plays with the right temperament. And I think he looks fine athletically. I don't know what he's going to test that. Or I've not heard from anybody what they think he's going to test. If they think he's going to blow it up or I don't know if he's going to test that. I have not heard from anybody what they think he's going to test, if they think he's going to blow it up.

I don't know if he's going to blow it up, but I think he looks like a good athlete on tape. So we'll see what happens. The Giants are now run by Brian Dable and Joe Schoen. I'm sorry if I'm saying his last name wrong. Shane. Shane. There you go.

It's very confusing. It doesn't look like Shane at all. It doesn't at all. That is the way it is. I think that, I mean, they both are coming from Buffalo, and so they know Jermaine Edmonds, Matt Milano, like drafted these guys, valuable. That defense needs guys like that in the middle of the field.

Edmonds hasn't even fully arrived as a player still, but they valued him. They valued the skill set. They valued the ability to do lots of things, stay on the field for all three downs. They value them linebackers. They're not skill set. They valued the ability to do lots of things, stay on the field for all three downs. They value that in linebackers. They're not like the last era of Giants people in Philly, where they don't value the position of the Browns.

This is different. This group is different. This group running this team is different. And I think they're going to see it's a huge hole there. And they could address it at seven. They could trade down, which I'm sure they're going to want to if the top two addressers are off the board. They could take Mkwonu. they could do a bunch of different things

to be honest with you like the giants it's kind of an open book that's kind of that way for a lot of different teams i don't know if how high lloyd is going to ultimately go one of the challenges is putting together this mock draft trevor is that i don't really see multiple typical top 10 players in this draft class where last year you saw 15 guys that could go top 10 and it wouldn't be weird to you you know you got guys spilling out of the top 10 you're like jeez this is gonna be crazy but one of these dudes is gonna fall this isn't like that in this year so i bet we see one or two surprises in the top 10 it's that's why you know you have so you have you have tyler linderbaum the safety from i or the safety the center from iowa going 24 overall

to the dallas cowboys and i totally get it because i see a lot of mock drafts that have tower linder bomb going in the i don't know like right around 20 you know like some somewhere between 50 15 and 25 but you know the reason is because he's a center right and a lot of people look at center and they look at it to your offensive line and like unless you're quentin nelson you have all these stars and these hype videos next to your name you just don't often go very high when you're into your offensive lineman but what you just said there makes me feel like there is a real chance that we could get Tyler Linderbaum as even a top 10 pick because when you watch him and you go okay that's one of the cleanest best prospects in this class

there's a chance that some team is just gonna go screw it give me the good player the good player. Like, I don't care. Like, I don't want, I don't want to take any of these other guys. I just want to take the football player that I think is best. And that's why, you know, you've got Tyler Linderbaum at 24. I'd love to hear your thoughts there with him going to the Cowboys. I think it's a great fit. You know, obviously they get to fortify the offensive line, but I feel like he can go a lot higher for that reason,

but that's kind of where I am. You're exactly right. He could go higher. That's very much a position and usually just a player, whoever the top player is usually is very much just like, Oh, we value the position enough. And other teams just like, we just straight up don't like get just done mad at us. If he went at eight, it wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I mean, here's the other part, Trevor, everybody's going to try and trade down.

Right. Like, I mean, I'm not alone in my thinking here. I don't think that the top of this draft class isn't exactly loaded. If you're pretty good at O-line and the top two edge guys are off the board, you're probably going to try and trade down because, but the problem is who's going to want to trade up because the quarterbacks in the class aren't good. And that's normally what people are trading up for. So you're going to have a real hard time. If you're Atlanta, I mean, they're kind of an easy one to say, okay, they're probably going to try and trade down depending on what's on the board. Okay. You look around the board and you're like, all right, like nobody wants to trade up. We're stuck here.

We're just going to take the player we liked the most. Like, I don't care. Like it could be a center, you know, and they've invested a lot Atlanta in their offensive line. And the last couple of drafts, they've drafted a ton of guys. It just hadn't really worked out for them. Like they should try drafting the good players. I think that might be a good strategy for them moving forward that doesn't really include jaylen mayfield it doesn't really include matt hennessey necessarily it does include chris lindstrom it does not include

caleb mcgary like that would be crazy and imagine drafting him in the first round but i think that moving forward that's could be part of their philosophy and that's where linder bob could come to the picture like saying okay we tried dominant center last year. We tried Hennessy. We tried like alternating centers, literally alternated centers for weeks, Trevor. Like I was like, come on. They alternated centers at the same game. They had like four fumbled snaps against the box. So they're alternating centers drive to drive.

Listen, you know, that's where, that's where the game is going. Football's going to a center by committee. I've often often said this i've often said what's the center platoon that's what it is right yeah it's just a center platoon you've got an early down center on first and second down and then you've got a third down center that you bring into the game yeah yeah they had the center they could snap the ball then they just brought in drew dalman on the reps that they didn't want to snap the ball right and he put that thing on the ground just like he's supposed to so now they could take linderbaum at eight driver and wouldn't even blow my mind because he's a good fit in the system too i mean

they want to obviously arthur smith wants to run the ball i could see it being like very easy like he falls in love with them or he could fall all the way down into the 20s like it that's really the range and it's because of exactly what you said like isn't the isn't the best draft at the top so after you get outside of the top five or six you're gonna see teams that want to trade down can't and they're just gonna say you know what screw it we're just gonna take the player we like the most like it might be a reach but like we don't care like there's only like 10 guys we like in this class and right he's who we like the most and that's how some teams are gonna view it you have the falcons taking trailing berks your wide receiver one i was gonna ask you

about that but you already brought up trailing berks so we don't need to double up on that you got the denver broncos taking edge rusher tray receiver one. I was going to ask you about that, but you already brought up Traylon Burke. So we don't need to double up on that. You got the Denver Broncos taking edge rusher Trayvon Walker. I'm going to ask you about that in a second, but outside of the top 10, cause you got sauce Garner going 10 to the New York jets, no quarterbacks. We got no quarterbacks in the top 10 here. And you touch on it a little bit. You got the Washington commanders at number 11, taking Sam Howell as to be one off the board, but man,

just your thoughts overall in this quarterback class. I mean, it seems pretty crazy in today's day and age in the NFL to not have a quarterback going to top 10. Right. And I think that, look, you're certainly not alone. I think a lot of people, you know, I've said on this podcast, I'm set on some radio programs that have been on, like, I don't think I'm going to give any first round grades out to any of these quarterbacks, but we know the NFL is going to draft them at some point. You just didn't think in this mock that it was going to be forced in the top 10. So what do you think about this quarterback situation overall this year? I mean, is there a parental warning on this pod? I don't know what y'all do.

Like do you censor things? No, it's horrible, dude. Like it's a horrible class. Like because even when there's physical talent, like there is with Willis and how there's just mind boggling decision makings, like bottom tier decision makings and pocket presence. And you can't, you have to at least be like average in those areas with the great tools to get me excited. You know, it just, and they don't even, I don't even, that wouldn't even sit. They don't even i don't even wouldn't even say they don't even have josh allen level tools let me be clear they're good they're good well that's i i think we need to retire

people understand right like people people need to people need to stop talking about like oh he could be the next josh allen josh allen's go watch wyoming josh allen tape yeah the arm is the stupidest thing i've ever seen. Like go watch Josh Allen's Wyoming tape and then watch any of these quarterbacks in this class. And you will never say that phrase ever again, that he's like, he's a project. So he just be like, he's just Josh Allen. If Josh Allen didn't have the arm ceiling that he did, he probably would not have had the chances long enough to become obviously what he is now is one of the best quarterbacks in the nfl and like that's just that's the reality of it

they played him as much as they did they stuck with him as much as they did because obviously they drafted him high but also because like the arm was that alluring right these guys don't have yeah yeah no they don't have i feel like i shouldn't have to couch it that way but i i kind of do because i've seen people be like you know it could be like a josh allen situation no i mean like they're not that like they're not that couple type of talent but they are talented for sure like they have enough physical talent that you don't worry about that part they check the box as people would say but just the decision making in the pocket presence and you know howell just like panics after his first read and Willis just, I mean, some plays are great. And so many plays are like, well, in the world is this guy doing?

And then you have the opposite end of the spectrum where picket, I figured it out, but it took five years, you know, and like, we need to talk like that's important here in this process. Like, and his hands are, you know, the Burger King guys in the commercial. So, I mean, like, I'm just not sure what you really do with that at that point. Like we've seen hand you know it'll come out this week in any of the official size i want to ruin it for people well maybe you got the hand masseuse remember brandon allen years ago i got the hand masseuse to like improve his hand size what did he improve his hand size by like a fourth of an inch yeah i think it was like for something it was nine and that was like nine and a quarter at the combine from the senior but do you remember you remember the senior bowl the big story with kenny pickett is that he has like he's like double jointed in his thumb

and so like that's why his hand size is like so abnormally different than somebody else's to where like i i don't know is he double jointed on both hands like can you measure like the non-throwing hand and just be like okay well the rest of his hand is actually like nine and a half or whatever, like hitting the threshold. But at the same time, like even if that's the case, he throws with the one that's double jointed. So like does that even matter? I do not know.

This is such a strange situation. I don't even know how to handle it. I saw his hands. I mean, I walked past him in the senior bowl multiple times. I saw his hands. I never seen that. I never seen any of that. That's a new one. I never seen hands that small like it's a specialist now what are you what are you a hand

specialist handologist i'm a hand specialist look you wear a lot of hats when you're draft scout man you gotta look at those things but anyway quarterback class is bad there's either physical severe physical limitations and ceilings on guys or you just can't imagine some of the raw tools guys getting where they need to be to be consistent starters in the NFL so it's somebody's gonna take them but I don't think they're gonna be lucky a couple questions left two guys that I did want to hit on you have George Karloftis the edge rusher from Purdue going number 14 overall which I don't think is a bad spot I think I've had George Karloftis going to Baltimore in a couple of my mock drafts but I also feel like I've heard you kind of talk about George

Karloff this as if you were not as high on him as the rest of maybe draft Twitter just like just consensus might be is that the case you lower on him I have no clue I feel about George Karloff doesn't I really don't he's one of the weirdest players in the draft i went in and i i kind of this may be my bad i try to avoid these things but you go in with some notions sometimes i went in and i watched a couple games and i kind of had the idea going in okay he's like a big heavy edge without great physical tools right he's not like super long or and and everybody's like oh he's not that athletic and then some people have said wasn't he on feldman's list i think he might light up the combine so i don't know what i think he was at

least in certain areas better than people expect anyway so i was like i don't think he's that unathletic watching him but dude the problem is i watched two games i watched oregon state in iowa and he won like every snap but it was so absurd like iowa's tackles are horrible i thought this place was known for o-line play and they have been in the past their tackles are so bad in every game i've watched i mean hutchinson and carloftis it was not even they shouldn't even put that tape out there like it's honestly it's like abuse of those guys like that that tape's available for people to watch. But I honestly watched those games. I was like, okay, Karloftis is just tough.

He's just going to run through you. What translates? What translates? Then he was against Ohio State, and it was just terrible. I mean, Karloftis was horrible against Ohio State. And Hutchinson destroyed Ohio State. I mean, destroyed them. It was one of the most ridiculous game tapes of the year. And Karloftis struggled like crazy, dude.

As a pass rusher, no answers. as a run defender, it was terrible. They unblocked them and optioned them off all game because he can't move laterally at all. Like that's the biggest struggle. Now, if you have Karloff just playing space, you're going to be pissed, but there's something to him. Like for sure. I mean, he's not a bad player at all. I'm curious to see how he tests, you know, he's somebody that has to win off the ball because i don't think he's like this super bendy dude but if you notice him when he lines up on tape he stands open to the pocket before the snap if you see him off the edge he knows his limitations and he like cheats basically with his stance and it will get him killed as a run defender

if he plays that way because he'll get teams will see that and they'll either just leave him on block because he's going so wide off the snap and they'll run inside of him or they'll just kick him out constantly because of his stance per snap but as a pass rusher like it works for him because he has the angle immediately if he can jump the snap you can't get back like in your stance it's very odd you don't see guys do that a lot they kind of just let him do his thing it felt like on on tape. I think there could be like a path for him to be this like pretty dynamite situational rusher. I don't think he can bulk up though.

Like I don't think he's an inside guy. Like I love, you know, Renner's my boy. But I saw, I think it was Renner. Maybe I'm misquoting. But he said something like he could play inside or outside. I don't know if he could play inside because he's not that great of a run defender right now. And he'd have to bulk up a lot. And he's kind of got a maxed out frame. I'd rather see him trim down play inside because he's not that great of a run defender right now. And he'd have to bulk up a lot and he's kind of going to max out frame. I'd rather

see him trim down and see what he can do on the edge. Like drop 10, 15 pounds. If he's too, if he's really two 75, you know, play a two 60 and play a two 55. And then let me see, because I don't think he's a bad athlete at all. Like, I just think he can't move laterally. No, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's a very all-around athlete i've got the uh i've got the bruce feldman freak list paragraph on him right now he played on the u16 greek national water polo team as a 13 year old which is pretty insane then he became a two-time indiana state champ in the shot put started for three seasons for his high school basketball team and as part of his preparation he spends an hour a day doing

hand-to-hand combat and mma drills so it's like this dude's just like he just he just does athletic shit for fun like that's just like that's what he does he's just he's just an athletic dude but i i do agree that he is going to be polarized he i mean he is polarizing for a lot of people i love his game i really do um i think he's stronger than you give him credit for um i just think yeah his alignments his alignment is a little strange but i think that if you're getting him in normal spots i think that he succeeds in both areas i really do maybe he's not a lead in one or the other but i think he's a really good all-around player i think he's strong i guess i don't think he's like a weak player at all like i think he's a really good all-around player. I think he's strong. I guess I don't think he's like a weak player at all.

Like I think he's strong. I think that it's hard to win primarily with strength in the NFL because you hardly ever go up against anybody if you have a serious physical power. You know, you just don't have that discrepancy like you do in college. Like as Iowa tackles, we're getting knocked over. Like how many times do you see a starting tackle outside of preseason games? You know what I mean?

It doesn't happen often. So that's where I say like he's got to build off of that some like there's a lot of body-to-body rushes that just kind of die out but when he jumped when he beats you off the snap it's curtains like yeah so that's going to be the key for him like and if he can get lighter and more explosive he's got a higher ceiling than other 275 pound edge rushers in college. Like Zach Allen, AJ Epinesa, Carlos Basham. Like those guys were all so overrated and they were, I mean, Zach Allen and Epinesa were mocked in the top 10 all the time. And I was the dude that came out and was like,

these dudes are not first round players. They aren't even second round players in my opinion. And then they ended up going way later than people thought. Like as the draft went on, I don't, I think Karloftis is better than those other types. And I know these guys have some different body types, but I think he's better than those guys. All right. We got to get you out of here on pick number 27.

It's the Buccaneers. It's a team, you know, so well, you've got them taking offensive guards, I Johnson and oh, well, oh, well, we'll look at the timing of this podcast because Ali Marpet, we're recording this on Sunday. Ali Marpet just retired out of effing nowhere, which is not ideal for this Buccaneers team. Jensen was already hitting free agency. Kappa was already hitting free agency.

And so you have them going Zion Johnson of senior bowl guy, the offensive guard from Boston college. Looked like a good pick then feels like it's an even better pick now. How much do you think their priorities change with Marpet out when it comes to number 27 overall? Yeah, it might change. I mean, what happens in free agency will be big. I mean, I don't know how many people that listen to this, listen to Peter report podcast. We've talked about it pretty much at length. I don't think Ryan Jensen's going to be back with the box for sure. I would be pretty surprised. Um, I think he's gonna, he's looking to cash out one more time. It'll be'll be 31 in may he wants to get the big payday and i just don't know if the bucks want

to shell out a ton of money when they're paying well i mean they have to figure out mark betts situation but they're paying donovan smith a lot and then they're gonna pay tristan werf's a lot you know i don't know if they want to pay i mean he's gonna be in the rag now he's trying to get to the rag now range like right right you want to make him the highest paid center in the league at his age when he's played through injuries the past two years. So if they lose Jensen, then maybe Kappa comes back for nine million or something like that. And you keep him around maybe, but you're still probably looking for another guard or a guy who can play

there. So yeah, it could, it could change things. I mean, they could go for a vet they have standing around. He'll be a free agent, but he's probably back on a cheap deal. They liked him. He started the playoff games and they won the super bowl, obviously with him out there. He played well. Nick Leverett's a guy they've developed. They've done a good job behind the scenes. They at least have good depth.

I don't know if these guys can be, you know, 17 game starters, but they have good depth that they've guys that will challenge and compete and work their tails off for spots, make a young guy better. If he comes in, we'll see how much it changes their plans, but Zion, you know, I don't know if he's ever going to be a star, but he seems like a guy who's going to test pretty well. And the power is obviously there. Lots of double teams in college.

Very similar system to what the Bucs do. I think he's got the right mentality. That matters to the Bucs. They've mostly drafted really good athletes on their offensive line, but they also will make exceptions like Alex Kappa, one of the worst athletes that's ever participated at the combine in his position and from a small school. They said, you got the mentality and the technique, dude're going at you we're taking you so they'll make

exceptions if the mentality is there and i think it's there for zion so i think they'll like him all right there we go everybody i know we didn't get to all the picks we didn't have time to do that but go check it out over at pewterreport.com i got to give you guys a reason to go over to the site check out john's 1.0 mock draft for the 2022 NFL draft. He's got all 32 picks in the first round with explanations with all the paragraphs and what he thinks on all of these prospects beyond what we just talked about here. John, this was awesome, man. This was so much fun for me. I really appreciate you popping on getting to reminisce a little bit about

some old times, dust off the duo Mike a little bit here and get to talk some NFL draft, buddy. This is fantastic. Yeah. Thanks for having me on man. Always a blast. are killing it fun to see you killing it and killing the game with Connor on this thing and I know it's the best is definitely yet to come so appreciate you having me on and I'll see you in India in a couple days I know I'm excited about it go follow this man on Twitter at ledyard NFL draft go follow Peter report as well they're covering the bucks better than anybody else out there appreciate you guys listening to the podcast it is combine week and tomorrow connor is back in the co-host chair and we are going to preview what we believe the

biggest storylines are for the combine and that includes what the head coaches are going to say what the gms are going to say what these players are going to say what we're looking for whether it's on the field with the testing or at the podiums, what questions do we want to see answered? What's going to matter the most in Indianapolis? That's coming tomorrow. We'll see you next time.