NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 167. Final Offensive Line Rankings (OT, OG, OC) For The 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers go through their final offensive line rankings for offensive tackles, offensive guards and centers for the 2023 NFL Draft

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, getting to the big boys. We're ranking offensive linemen for the 2023 NFL Draft, and we're doing all the different positions. We're ranking offensive tackles, the offensive guards, the offensive setters, and we talk about a lot

of the players that have that positional versatility, who can go from tackle to guard, or we project from center to guard, things like that. So there's a lot of different great conversations about what this offensive line class is going to be in 2023. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell welcome to the opening bell of the nfl stock exchange podcast i'm trevor sycamore that is connor rogers god it feels like forever since i said those words and we have been with you guys

i don't know if that's just because draft season, like this point in the calendar, Connor, if like 24 hours in the day feels like 48 hours in a day or whatever it is, because time feels like it's going fast and slow all at the same time. But buddy, today we're here to talk about the big boys. We're giving you our final rankings. Of course, the word final is in quotations, but our final rankings for offensive tackles, for interior offensive linemen for the guards for the centers we're going to talk to you about all the big boys we think are worth talking about it's going to be a different number for each one of those categories because some of

them there's a little bit more than others but we're at least going to give you our top fives for each of those position groups connor how are you feeling today my man i'm good man this is such an interesting week just the the o-line grind week because it all starts. You know how it is. You know how it is. So here we are, man. It's exciting. It's a really interesting process fitting all of these guys into the big board, breaking it up. I want to say this is the first year. I need to double check. I feel like this is the first year that I did centers in their own group. I want to check from last year. And you know what?

I did last year. This was the year to do it, though. 100%. I feel like I had to. I normally do offensive tackles and then just interior offensive line. Because you know the drill. In the NFL, if you're playing guard you probably have to moonlight at center sometimes you might have to fill in there or vice versa if

you're a center you might have to you might have to fill in a guard at some point so oh yeah you kind of have to have those translatable skills to play a lot of both but there are a ton of what feels like center only or just like center right like center by nature guys so i think we'll get into that a little bit mine is still broken up into just offensive tackles and interior offensive linemen so we'll try to keep this as organized as we possibly can but you're right man it was it was fun to see a lot of the different skill sets of a lot of different guys here in this 2023 class it really was it's a it's a group where you got a little bit of everything you got your maulers you got less technicians than usual but there's your technicians there's your guys

that are just loaded with traits and figuring this thing out like you said trevor a very dense true center class guys that they will be playing in the middle and uh that'll be their home from day one in this draft so and this was a deep o-line class in a sense of really trying to find the guys in that round four to six range that you think with a little coaching can take a big jump so personally this is the most work i feel like i've ever done on the o-line class ever in a sense of i kept coming back to different players yeah stacking the top was pretty difficult and then you you look across the board and you you know you blink and you have your rankings and converted guys converting tackles the guards more than ever

as well so this is yeah this was definitely a deep dive and a long process and i'm going to be honest with you man i'm pretty glad we're here yeah this is the grindiest part of the draft by far yeah no no just because it's it's three different types of positions along the offensive line that you're trying to get a really good feel for. And, you know, it's funny, we have our schedules throughout the year of kind of how we watch tape and when we watch tape and well, thank God. Well, it's a lot more. So I would say, I was going to say, maybe this is just me. I'm curious.

I'm a lot more spread out in November, December, January. And when we go through these final rankings, like you just said, I'm a lot more spread out in November, December, January. And when we go through these final rankings, like you just said, I'm, I'm watching a guy, I'm going back to a guy. I'm watching another guy. I'm going back to the first guy. And I'm like, okay, do I like this player's movement better than this player's movement? I can't exactly remember. Let me pull up the tape and literally go back to back with them. And it's a lot of, again, when you're doing, when you're doing numerical rankings, you got to stack these guys, or at least

tiering them. You got to stack them and find the buckets that a lot of these guys fall into. So let's just get into it. Let's do offensive tackles first. How many offensive tackles do you want to list off? Because I think it's going to be a little bit different for each of us. The ones that we're comfortable, not just comfortable talking about, but the ones that we want to talk about. Because not all of these guys are going to stick in the NFL. So how many you got? List them off, and then we'll dig into the top fives. Yeah, so right now I'm at eight total offensive tackles,

10 guards, and then seven centers ranked in separate groups. And, you know, there's other guys I've watched besides these guys, but I felt like these guys are noteworthy for the show and the other guys I have a baseline on I don't expect to pop enough where they'll jump over any of these guys so the eight tackles for me it starts with Maryland's Jalen Duncan okay and then you go to Old Dominion's Nick Saldivari uh all the way down to Blake Freeland who I feel like we have talked about on the show going back to summer. He's been a notable name for a while. He had a great, great testing process.

So the skyscraper tackle from BYU, he comes in at number six for me. Five was DeJuan Jones from Ohio State. Four was Anton Harrison from Oklahoma. Three is Darnell Wright from Tennessee. Two is Broderick Jones from Georgia. And number one is Paris Johnson Jr. from Ohio State. And if there's a name you did not hear on that list, there's a very good chance that they were evaluated as a guard at the next level. Yeah, I'll list off some of my guys as well. I know there's one notable name that people are looking to hear. And the way that I broke it up in my rankings, I put some of the same names in the tackle ranking,

and they're also in the interior offensive line ranking. So I did that kind of for myself, but also for the listeners as well, because I wanted to say like, okay, this is where I see this player in the class as a guard. This is where I see the player in the class as a tackle. So look, I know Ryan Rich and our producers listen to this. Ryan, I'm sorry, we're not giving you a clean graphic for you to make and tweet out about our rankings for this episode. It's just not going to happen. We're going to be a little bit all over the place with it.

But for my offensive tackles, I have, I'll just go 10. I'll go my top 10. I'll read off my top 10. Jalen Duncan is 10 for me. Nick Saldivari is number nine. So we've got kind of the same order there. Back end. I got Tyler Steen. If I'm stacking him up against the offensive tackles,

I would have him offensive tackle eight. Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse. If I'm stacking him with offensive tackles, I got him at seven. I got DeJuan Jones at six. I got Anton Harrison at five. I got Broderick Jones at four. If I'm putting Peter Skowronski in the tackle class,

I'd have Peter Skowronski at three. I got Darnell Wright at two. And I got Paris Johnson Jr. as my offensive tackle one. So I know we'll have a lot of questions. We're very close. For a lot of those. Yeah, it's a lot of the same names, a little bit of a different order though.

So I'm sure we'll dig into that a little bit. You start with your number five guy. Let's break him down and then we'll move on. Yeah, DeJuan Jones. I mean, not going to be for everybody. He's massive. He's got the legendary wingspan. He carries a ton of weight on the upper half of his body.

He's someone for me that you're never going to run through, which you love. Nobody's going to work through DeJuan Jones. You simply have to make your way around him. His mass is insane, 374 pounds. It's a 98th percentile weight. He's got hands that are the size of a computer screen 11 and 5 8 inches it's just you know where to put it it's ridiculous how big his hands are yeah here's the thing i i wrote him up trevor um and i said when he's like in his past set like truly planted

nobody ever generates forward power against him it's hard to drive him back exceptional length is hard to work around the thing and his hands are so big that like a lot of these guys miss with their punch or aren't locating with their punch. He needs half of his hand to reach on the punch. And it's like a normal hand hitting on the punch. So even if it's not a perfect punch, it still makes impact on his target. He has no foot speed and really overall athleticism at that size like if you want your tackles to pull or be on the move or climb or sustain blocks at the second

and third level it's just not going to be for you i don't know what else to say so yeah he very much fits that like you're hoping i wrote down my final line of his scouting report was if he manages his weight properly and lands in the right scheme, he could have an Orlando Brown Jr. type career arc. That's what you're hoping with DeJuan Jones. So solid. I think I'm lower big board wise on terms of how I value a player like that. Like he's my 57th overall player. I wouldn't take him in the top 40. I think he could be a serviceable right tackle in a power scheme and he is hard to work your way through and pass pro but he will struggle with speed and if you're an athletic run game he's very very limited I'm still putting the big board together so I don't want to say like

where he is in my big board because I think that's going to change a lot especially as we get to defensive guys over the next couple of weeks as I'm reordering that and doing rechecks but I had him at offensive tackle six so I could talk about him right before I get to my five guy I I think that you you hit on a lot of the the strengths of his which are literally the size strengths right I mean like he's just a massive human being as a right tackle the only things that I could really say that not to say that he's a perfect prospect because nobody really is in this class but the areas that I would like to see him improve, he weighs in at three 74. I'd like to see him at three 50. Like I'd like to see,

I'd like to see him lose a solid 20 pounds because the feet are heavy. The footwork is, is all over the place. I think just because of that weight, the foot speed is slow. And you know if you lose 20 pounds that gets a lot better i also think that he had some balance issues some of that has to do with the footwork and the base and not being able to get your foot exactly where you want to as guys are getting into your chest and they're trying to attack the shoulders and again if he loses about 20 25 pounds i think the balance gets a little bit better i think the foot speed goes up a little bit and i think you get a better or the best version of what dewan jones can be as a really

big long offensive tackle you don't have to be 374 you don't got to be that big you shouldn't be you know and so i i cut a little bit of weight but i mean if you do then i think you got a really solid right tackle prospect even if the footwork is going to be slower for him at 350 than it is other players, I think the rest of his game, especially from a power profile, is still one of a starting right tackle in the NFL. So got him at six there. I got Anton Harrison at five.

Where did you have Anton Harrison? Four. The reason our rankings are different is because you had three guys in your tackles that I only did guard evals on. are in guards as well and we will and we will get to that but Anton Harrison Jr. is my number five from Oklahoma a lot of people have heard me talk about him for a long time I like them a lot coming out of summer scouting one of my favorite guys there it reminded me of Charles Cross from Mississippi State oh I like that in the fact that you know normally when you look at offensive linemen,

I think the typical thing to do in a scouting report is, ooh, big, strong, knows how to run block, but just needs to work on the pass protection. For Charles Cross, it felt like the opposite. It was, man, this dude had really nimble feet, understood where to throw his hands, understood how to disengage pass rushers that were coming at him, knew how to reset his hands,

was just a really polished pass protector going to the next level, which you don't often see. And I feel like that's the case with Anton Harrison as well. Three years of starting experience at Oklahoma. And I think he brings a lot of those same talking points to the table. Love his hand usage. I don't think he's an explosive athlete, but he feels like a natural moving one,

even though he's not moving as fast as some other great offensive tackles, first round offensive tackles that we've seen. He still looks the part like he still looks like he's in control, very smooth mover for a player his size. And so I'm OK with that. I think he does still need to get a little bit stronger, although that was a big concern that you and I had of him going into the year. I thought he looked a lot better in that area this past year. Looked a lot better with his anchor. Looked a lot better taking on bull rushes. And I think that that was on probably his scouting report for a lot of teams saying,

Hey, just get into his chest. And he was a lot better. He was a lot more ready for it this year, which is great to see. So, you know, I really do think that it is a big five offensive tackles. We've talked so much about Roger Jones, Paris Johnson Jr., Peter Skronsky, and for good reason, those are good players. But I'd throw Darnell Wright, and I would also throw Anton Harrison in there to give it a quote-unquote big five of the offensive tackles that we're talking about

that have the potential of the first round. So Harrison's a guy who has the experience. He is very comfortable as a pass rusher right now. And I think the stronger he gets, the older he gets, just the better he's going to be as an offensive lineman. So I like him a lot. Yeah. I echo a lot of the things you said about him. I have him 54th on my big board. He made so many great strides this year that you love to see. The one thing I wrote down that I really want to see him improve on when you watch the sack and the pressures he gave up, it's almost all inside

moves where he fails to keep that lower half working with his hands and his lateral agility is kind of mediocre right now. So if he can improve on that aspect of his game, he'd be very, very hard to beat in pass protection. Straight line speed in the run game is phenomenal. Hard-nosed effort. You'd love to see that as well. And I thought he had the mindset to work through reps. So I'm with you that Harrison really has a shot to be a starting NFL tackle. And I won't spend too much time on him because you covered him pretty well, but he was tackle four for me. Tackle three for me was Darnell Wright um and when I look at Wright he's just obviously this powerhouse on the right side I'm gonna find my actual full report on him hulking right tackle excellent strength uh contained Will Anderson

he's got girth and force he displays very hard to convert speed to power against him he makes rushers take the long way I think he when he oversets against the speedier outside guys, he lacks the quickness to recover the other way, whether it's inside or outside. And I think we saw that on some senior bowl reps as well, notably against Will McDonald. I think in the run game, his run blocking is extremely high variance. There's reps where he unloads a tremendous amount of force and just

absolutely buries defenders. And then there's other plays where his pad levels high, he looks tired. He can't sustain the block long enough to positively impact the run. So my most important note with Wright was if he could dial in a more consistent approach, which I think is endurance and weight, not lack of ability at all. And we saw him, I think he was playing in the three fifties. He came into the senior bowl in the three forties. He came into the combine in the three thirties

that has to continue. He needs to continue to shed the weight, play lighter. So in the third and fourth quarter, he's still the mammoth he is when he gets off the bus to start the game. But right for me was kind of the no braineriner tackle three I think he's a true right tackle and I think he's going to be a first round pick yeah I I agree with a lot of what you said and I believe even more in it I've got Darnell Wright as my number two offensive tackle in this class like I think that we are way too comfortable right now just having oh yeah Paris Johnson Jr. and Broderick Jones will be the first two offensive tackles on the board. That might be the case, but I think we're way too comfortable in that conversation and we're not giving Darnell Wright the credit he deserves

to be in that conversation. I really don't. I loved going back to watch his film against Will Anderson and then also specifically with B.J. Ogillary because with Ogillary, he knew that B.J. was going to attack his outside shoulder and i thought that that's really when you got a great look at just how much ground darnell right can actually cover when he's getting into his vertical steps you know whether it's those deep vertical steps

or it's those 45 degree man he's in his stance and that first foot kicks out, explodes out, covers a ton of ground. And I think that Wright, you aren't wrong by starting his summary by saying that he is this hulking, powerful Wright tackle, because he is. But I think too often people go, oh, okay, that means he's probably just like a brute on the right. He's not. I really think this guy moves super well especially with a little bit of weight off of him i think that that could be better that's the key

the issues with him i think he gets a little too over aggressive at times it leads to him getting a little bit off balance he gets a little bit over his skis if you will and therefore he's not on balance as much as he wants to be those are all things that he can hone in on I mean like I look at this guy and I I hesitate to say this because people always take comps too far but he plays the game with the demeanor that like Trent Williams does right just this big huge strong athletic offensive tackle who wants to bury you in the ground. He reminds me a lot of Trent Williams. And when Trent Williams was able to hone in that aggression and use it at the right times, that's when he became the Trent Williams that we see today as an unreal left tackle. I'm not saying

that he's going to be the next Trent Williams because I feel like all those things are so silly to say of people who haven't even played it down in the NFL before. But that's kind of the mindset that I have when I look at Darnell Wright to think, man, if you just, if you hone it in a little bit, then all of a sudden, I think we got a really damn good offensive tackle on our hands. So there's so much to like about him from the power profile to the athletic profile. Also, if you listen to his combine podium session, he talked about the way that he approaches different pass rushers. He talked about how he categorized Will Anderson as a speed and power guy.

He talked about how he categorized B.J. Ojalary as a speed and finesse guy. What you do in practice to prepare for those different skill set players. He's not just a guy who's going to win off of strength and athleticism. He's also going to try to bring some smarts to the table as well. So I really did love Darnell Wright the more that I dug into him. And that's why I got him as offensive tackle too in this class. I saw some Roger Saffold and not like the washed up Roger Saffold of the last year. The better version.

When Roger Saffold was kicking everyone's ass in the run game and had all this power and all this force and carried this girth. So that's where I saw him kind of land on. And right, there's definitely a big jump up from the other tackles I've mentioned. I have him as the 36th overall player. Do you want me to jump to one and two here, Trevor? Or I don't want you to fall behind here. No. Who do you got?

Who do you have? Who's the three for you? Who do you have? Three was right. OK, three was right. Yeah, just get the one and you to fall behind here. No, who do you got? Who do you have? Who's a three for you? Who do you have? Three was right. OK, three was right. Yeah, just get the one and two. That's fine. Yep.

So two is Broderick Jones. Yep. And Broderick Jones. That'll continue the conversation in that way for us. Yeah. Broderick Jones, just wildly athletic tackle, carries no bad weight. He's born to play the position. He's got light feet.

He's got length. I thought he shined as a first-year starter, a full-time starter. He started a couple games for Georgia in 2021, but full-year starter at left tackle for a national championship team. Very explosive getting into both his pass sets or taking off as a run blocker. Can adjust on the fly against pass rushers due to a twitchy lower half. I just, once again again i can't emphasize enough that i love he didn't carry any bad weight it looks everything looks good with him now when

you get to the technique i for a while i was like he needs more anchor strength and then i realized it's the technique that was impacting his anchor strength because he is a strong guy sometimes he throws his hands wide and rushers get into his chest and it makes his anchor strength look bad. But if he cleans up those hands and plays a little tighter, the anchor strength is completely adequate. So and when he does that, he needs to avoid ducking his head. The outside speed rush, you see some reps against Ojolari. Ojolari takes him wide and he kind of is like, oh, shit, like I'm losing wide. I'm going to like duck my head into this last salvageable rep. And it's like, dude, you are Broderick Jones.

Like somebody needs to explain to you that you are one of the more gifted naturally tackles that we've had in a couple of years. You have almost 35 inch arms. You are very, very light in your lower half. You don't need this last like head ducking tactic. And I think if he takes the coaching, I wrote he's a true left tackle that should have a long NFL career.

He's a scheme proof prospect. Best football's ahead of him. His athleticism is a weapon in the run game. There's so many raw traits in pass protection and his failures in pass protection are technical hiccups. Not like this guy's just not good enough. Like I never watched Robert Jones and was like, Roger Jones isn't good enough.

I'm like, man, a coach cleans this up. You know, like I said, the wide hands or the ducking of the head and you keep getting stronger. You're a young guy. I loved his demeanor.

Like there's, there's, there's something in his hands when he's blocking. It's not just like, I'm out here and I'm blocking. It's like, no, you're catching these hands and I'm going to make you feel this. So I liked Broderick Jones a lot.

I was actually, after watching him, I was surprised how little buzz he gets. He's the guy that's drafted. Everyone's like, oh, go in the middle of the first round and you just got to take offensive line and keep getting better there. It's like, no, this guy is really exciting to watch. This dude was a legit recruit for a reason.

He went to Georgia, played with some excellent linemen, played against some excellent defensive linemen. And when he got a shot, he looked really, really good. And I think he's going to continue to get a lot better. Yeah, you you highlight him very well. I have the same positive notes that you do there's no talent deficiency with this guy and these are you know to to your point i know you were kind of saying is a little bit of like we're not giving this guy enough credit but like the way that people talk

about roger jones he is inexperienced he does have technical um deficiencies to him right now there's things that he needs to be more disciplined with, but there's no question that no one's questioning the talent. No one is saying, oh, this guy's just, he's not laterally quick enough, right? He's not explosive enough out of his stance. Heck, I even think he gets pretty low and I love the base, man.

I love how wide his feet are. I love how he's able to sink his hips down. He's able to sit down in his stance, like all that stuff, the natural flexibility, the explosiveness, how he plays in space space the natural power that he has up top and in the lower half like all of that i think is fantastic for him the hands definitely need improvement like he's getting he like the ball was being snapped and his hands are like at his knees and he's sometimes doing the thing where you know he's keeping he's keeping the hands out a little bit along the offensive

line to you know make sure that he's checking in with his with the guard or anybody else who might be coming into his lane but the the hands are way too low it takes him way too much time and i feel like i saw him a lot wind up you know how like some offensive tackles they want to hit real hard and so instead of if the hands were here instead of just going boom like like right into the chest they will wind up and they will like bring the hands and the elbows instead of just going boom, like right into the chest, they will wind up and they will like bring the hands and the elbows back to try to shoot it up. And they do that because they want to pack a lot of a punch.

But you got to do that part in the weight room. Like you just got to get stronger overall so you can go from right here, boom, right in the chest and it's got the same kind of effect. So that could come with him with better coaching, more repetition, of course, hitting the weight room when he gets in the NFL because he is one of the younger prospects I think he has less than 500 snaps as a starter so all of this is to be expected man you know it's funny when he when he's on the move I think the hands and the arms are a little erratic too he almost like turns into a sprinter sometimes when he's in

the open field like the arms are like churning like a sprinter and then at the time he makes contact with somebody in open space it's like one arm is still down because he's sprinting and then he's trying to just get into a but he wants to detonate people yeah 100 he does no one needs to tell him like brother you are so strong you don't need to do that you don't need to do like it's like ufc super punch right like and it's like no no keep the feet on the ground i know i noted i noted the head down thing as well far too often you know when he wants to lunge and again put a lot of strength into some contact he's putting it the crown of his helmet down and it's like if you do that against some of the better pass rushers they're going to see you're doing it.

They're just going to stop for a split second, swipe you, and they're going to be by you immediately. So the head cannot come down like that. The crown of the helmet, you can't let defenders see it. The best ones are going to be able to get by it way too quickly. So a lot of, I would say, just technical things that you have to work out with Broderick Jones, but no doubt about it, a player who has starting caliber ability could be an all pro someday he's somebody that again you know you would absolutely bet on in the uh in the first round in the top 20 in the first half of the

nfl draft so uh give me your thoughts on paris johnson and then we can move on to guards with peter skoransky because i got him here at tackle i also have him number one as an interior offensive lineman so what do you think about Paris Johnson if you're looking like in a lab start making a tackle you really do start on the Paris Johnson blueprint in terms of length athleticism I wrote down that this guy just glides in the open field it's it really has the feel of like is that a tight end on the move trying to make a move block but he's just bigger and it's is that Darnell Washington out there or like it's like no that's a legitimate 300 plus pound tackle that's six feet six inches tall so with Paris there there's times where it works to his advantage in times where it works against him right like I wrote down

another guy with a quick lower half he mirrors speed rushers like it's nothing like movement movement is no problem for this guy to the point where i thought he dictated a lot of reps against speed rushers like a lot of speed rushers they get that first step and it tackles instantly i'm like all right phase two i'm recovering with paris against speed rush. It was like, oh no, like he's dictating the rep and really wearing these guys out. 96 percentile arm length aids in recovery. Now this is the thing with him. I thought he really did struggle against power and inside moves. Van Ness got him on a bull rush. I mean, really got him on a bull rush. I wrote when he gives up

the inside, it's from being too aggressive in his punch with both hands. Like he throws both hands and forgets like, oh, I need to reset and not give up the gap there. So I also said he leaves a lot of open ground when he does that. But here's the thing. He has such excellent natural balance. Yeah. That with a little more strength and a little bit more reps

at tackle again because he started guard two years ago i think he's gonna be fine like i want like i've never seen a guy lose against power like this and be like i'm not even concerned because he's just such a freak and he just has this rare balance. The run game, he can get anywhere he needs to go. But when he's up against a shorter target, it's really hard for him to get leverage under their pads. He's just big. He's upright. Maybe he needs to slow down half a step. He's playing so fast. Maybe he just needs to be a little bit more in control there. But man, there's reps with him where like what i describe sounds like a finesse tackle he is not a finesse tackle in the run game he is on the hunt every single quarter every single quarter this man is on the hunt and wants to kill you and when it's in control talking about this

with broderick a little bit i thought par Paris was even better from a technique standpoint on the move. When it's in control, it's pretty. It's really, really pretty to watch. He just has to get stronger, limit the waist bending. When he could take on power on an island, because he could already take on any speed on an island, this guy could be a top five tackle in the NFL. He really can.

And what got this one? Oh, I had them tied him in Broderick. Let me be honest. I watched Broderick and I was like, damn, he's just as good as Paris Johnson. I talked to some people,

notably an offensive line coach in the league that interview interviews, these guys. And he's like Paris, all world person, like gets it. He's awesome. All in awesome, dude.

Like no way fails. Just, he's awesome. All-in, awesome dude. Like, no way he fails. There's just no way he fails. And when you hear that from multiple people and you look at the package of the person on the field, I'll bet on him. I'll bet on him. He's the best tackle in the draft. And not the best offensive lineman,

but he's the best tackle in the draft. In another life, Perry Johnson Jr. could be a small forward at like a d1 college right because he moves like it he's six foot six he's got the he's got the 96th percentile wingspan i mean if you cut if you cut like 60 70 pounds off of this guy and let him be an end be like a basketball player he would move well enough to be a fantastic basketball player, because that's what it feels like he brings to the tackle position. There's so much to highlight about his athleticism that you already have.

So I won't say the same words that you did. He's got the quick feet. He's got the great balance. He's so great in space, all that stuff. I would say that, you know, when I, I, I did see similar weaknesses to you Van you know Van Ness got him a good couple of times and I actually saw more than just Van Ness get him a good couple of times with power and I think it's because he has a tendency to shoot his hands outside and I don't know if that's just because he's got the long arms and it's more natural for him to do that. But sometimes, sometimes when he's getting his hands in there to establish the point of contact,

it's almost like he's given them a hug. Like it's almost like the hands are coming around and they're latching on to either the triceps, the outside part of the arm, or like right underneath the shoulder pads, but on the outside of it and i think you would do that because if your arms are long enough to do that and you can really get up on somebody's like shoulders and arms and shoulder pads you can basically dictate the fact that they will not be able to do anything other than bull rush you if you can get that kind of hand position on them they can't they can't like chop you away. They're not going to be able to swim.

You've got control. You're engulfing them. And like, that's, I think the technique that he goes for, but unfortunately, and this will be a problem in the NFL. If he can't fix it,

there are going to be players like Lucas Van Ness who go, okay, you're giving me your chest for free here. We're about to go for a ride. And there's a couple of reps where you watch Paris really get pushed back in the pocket. You go, man, he's not small. It's not like he doesn't have anchor ability or sand in the pants as scouts will say when it comes to really sitting down and neutralizing bull rushes. But I genuinely think it's because he's taller and because he does not have his hands enough inside to where his chest is too exposed to power rushes.

You fix that, you're going to have one of the best offensive tackles in the NFL, I think. I think so. Everything else is there with him. But I think I know what he's doing with the hand placement, but I saw it so much. It's like, man, you are giving up your chest for free. And I don't think he, I don't think he faced a lot of pass rushers who are strong enough to really make him pay for it.

Maybe that's part of it. And in the NFL, you're going to get pass rushers every week. They're going to make you pay for it if you leave your chest that exposed. So we got to get the hands in a little bit more tight. You know, if anybody out there wants to go watch Joe Thomas for NFL Network, does a really great breakdown on where he puts his hands. And Joe Thomas will even tell you that sometimes he loves to use his other hand, the outside hand, to latch on to that outside tricep, that outside shoulder area, while the other hand is on the inside in the pec because it allows you your chest a little bit while allowing you to say, hey, you're not going to beat me outside.

I'm going to control you because I'm going to get the outside of your arm. So that's just, you know, what I've learned about offensive line play from somebody who's never played offensive line before. But I feel like that is something that if he masters the ability to keep those long arms but yet protect his chest a little bit more, you're going to get a damn good offensive lineman. So, Connor, let's move on to guards. Is there somebody else that you wanted to talk about really at tackles?

Not really. I mean, I think we'll get into those kind of players after they're drafted when we do team reviews. That's fair. Yeah. Sure, I could sit here and talk about Sal Averi or Jalen Duncan, but I think this guard class deserves the runway of the time like i i really like this guard group let me say that so where we start with guard all right you want me to just read the rankings yeah yeah sure

that'll be that'll be good and then i'll read mine so my top 10 guards john gains from ucla at 10. Oh, I didn't watch him. Emil Ekior from Alabama at nine. Chandler Zavala from NC State at eight. Non-combined invite, Zavala. I know. Yeah, very odd choice. Seven, Cody Mauck from North Dakota State. Okay. Six, Anthony Bradford from LSU.

Five, a guy you had on the tackle list, Tyler Steen from Alabama. I think he's going to make a great guard. Yep. One of my favorites in this draft at number four, Matthew Bergeron from Syracuse. I think this dude is going to absolutely demolish lives when he bumps into the inside.

Steve Avila at number three. This was like dealer's choice because he started at center and guard. I was like, yeah, he's probably a guard. And then Osiris Torrance at two from your Florida Gators. And number one, the best offensive lineman in the draft is Peter Skowronski. Oh, yeah. So you just have you have guards and centers.

I was like, where is John Michael Schmitz? I could I could do. Wait, you're you did them together. So I should probably read centers, right? Yeah. Yeah. Just read centers. yeah yeah just read centers you i'll be quick on this one okay so i did seven centers here jared patterson from

notre dame okay six juice scruggs from penn state okay five ricky stromberg from arkansas this is where these next four are like i think they're starters honestly uh olu olu with timmy from michigan three joe tipman who's gotten a lot of hype that i not there yet but definitely a solid prospect luke whipler from ohio state and john michael schmitz the number one center in the draft and in a tier of his own so i will i want to dig into that and I'll give you dealer's choice on where you want to go with it. But for my interior offensive lineman, it's a mix of centers.

I guess some tackles as well as guards. I had Jared Pat. I'll just start at 12. I get Jared Patterson at 12. I got Andrew Voorhees at 11. I got Luke Whipler at 10. Cody mock at nine. We can talk a little bit about cody mock because i'm not nearly as high on him as other people clearly neither was item seven and guards yeah yeah i

i think a lot of people like cody mock i just here's a question and i there's a lot to like about cody mock scam this is gonna be like the kill Mock podcast. If he had his two front teeth and a normal haircut, would he be a projected top 50 pick? No. I asked the hard stuff. Here's the thing, too. I think his best position in the NFL is center. I agree, but I completely agree.

But he didn't play center, right? No, he's a three-year starter at tackle. Right. And he did not take center reps at the senior bowl. He took guard reps. No, he took center reps. Oh, he did? Some, some.

Yeah, they had him. When I watched him, I saw him at guard. At day one, they had him, or I think day two, actually, they had him taking center snaps a little bit. But when you look at Cody Mock, he's a former walk on tight end who had to put on 60 pounds to play on the offensive line. Okay. He played left tackle for North Dakota state against competition level. That is not anywhere near comparable to the NFL.

So when you watch his North Dakota state tape and left tackle, it doesn't really tell you anything about what he's going to be there because I don don't think the measurables are there for him to play tackle at the nfl level so he's not he's not a tackle he's not i'll say it with my chest i don't i don't i don't i don't think he is i also don't think he's a guard i don't think he's big enough i don't think he's dense enough interesting i think you can play him at guard but if he's going to be a starter at the nfl level i think i think it's going to be a center because let's just have the cody mock conversation what's the what's the best thing that cody mock does he gives you that lateral agility that explosiveness like all of that stuff that you're right where you get the most out of that is at center yeah 93rd percentile three cone right i don't really care how much you're moving

as a guard if you're getting blown up so let's say this because people listening are probably like floored right now because all they've heard is love for him for months and we both like him we both like him right we don't we probably aren't landing on him as a top 50 player in the draft i know trevor you're still putting together your board i have him drum roll please at 73 i have him as a late third early fourth grade okay so because i'm also where i saw the straw go ahead yeah i was just gonna say what also goes into that grade is i'm projecting him to play a position that he's never played so that's tough you know it's just that's tough anyways go on yeah i thought the step up in power is going to be a big adjustment yes it's going to be big and i thought in the run game like his run blocking highlight reel is

amazing i think there's a lot of times where he lands high on moving targets and it's going to be hands to the face at the next level like it's in the fcs they're like street fight like you know whatever right but he's a good prospect games he's a good prospect he understands how to generate every ounce of power he can from his hips because he needs to. 100%. But it's a big man's game. It is. It's a big man's game. And I do...

I'm with you. I would love to see him. If he was exclusively working at center, I would have been higher on him in this draft. I don't think he's... I think he's going to start out of guard at the next level. I've been told that's what most teams are planning on. Right.

So I got him at nine. Okay. Oh, wow. We completely stopped in the middle of your rankings. Holy shit. No, we need it needed to happen. It needed to happen. So it makes a good podcast.

Chandler Zavala is at eight for me. I like Chandler Zavala's tape. The back injury scares me. It's okay. I'm not going to go on the record and say, oh, it's significant. It is definitely the big part of his evaluation right now yeah yeah i do like chandler zavala i do um but the back worries me a little bit i got tyler

steen at number seven for all interior offensive linemen so i think we see him kind of similarly because i'm throwing centers in here as well i have joe tipman at six we can have the joe tipman conversation because i think that it's an interesting one i got john michael schmitz at five i have osiris torrence at four i have steve avila at three just ahead of osiris torrence i have matthew bergeron as the number two interior offensive lineman in this class and then i have peter skaransky as the number one interior offensive lineman in this class we can bounce around with this one if you want, because we're kind of combining rankings here. You want to talk about Joe Tittman?

Sure, because I think we're both lower on him than consensus. A little bit, it feels like. Yeah, Tittman for me is the 63rd overall player on my board. I have seen him in the first round of mock drafts before. No, I have a late second, early third round grade on him. There you go. I think that would fall in line with 63 overall.

Man, guys that tall don't play center. I know. It's hard. He misses a lot of targets at the second level. Maybe it's bias.

Everything I love in a center is leverage and something you talk about with Cody Mock, lateral agility, get where you got to go, land on it, and sustain the block. The two concerns with Joe Tippman, how do you have leverage at that height at center?

I don't love him as much as everybody else on the move to targets. I don't. I don't think he's a bad athlete. I think he's a hard-nosed i don't think he's a bad athlete i think he's a hard-nosed player i think he's a good athlete yeah but i it just doesn't it didn't land for me like all of these other animals on the move in the run game i mean these guys are incredible incredible and then i watch him i'm like he's getting first round hype like he's an outlier he's an outlier yeah it's man i think he it's not that he can't be a starter or he'll be some big bust there are things you're betting on with him that don't traditionally go

in your favor at the center position at the next level yeah here's the issue that i had with him a lot i like the movement i thought he was a great communicator pre-snap he's consistently pointing things out he's communicating to the rest of the offensive line he's communicating to the quarterback he's doing all that stuff so i think that he's he is really great as a communicator and someone who's calling out a lot of different stuff pre-snap so i think that that goes into it i like how he is an athlete man especially as a he snaps the ball when he is off and he is gone. He can run. I like the explosiveness to him.

He played offensive tackle in high school. And that's kind of what you would think with a guy who is now a 6'6", 313-pound center. The issues with Joe Tittman, I've got three issues with him. One, he's taller, so he naturally is going to lose leverage to a lot of nose tackles that are getting a lot lower at the point of attack you know especially when it comes to short yardage situations right first and ten it might not be that big of a deal but third and two third and one you talk about go back and watch what the philadelphia eagles did when they did

all those qb sneaks Jason Kelsey is like horizontal with the ground Jason Kelsey is basically in a four-point stance he's smelling the grass he's watching the ants build a farm like he like he he is so close to the ground digging a hole to hide his phone so and Joe Temich is not going to be able to give you that so I think you have to think about that short yardage situations he's not going to be able to give you that. So I think you have to think about that. Short yardage situations, he's just going to naturally lose that leverage. He, like Paris Johnson, although I think it's worse for Joe Timmons, does the hug thing.

The hands are just, they're, he, now, I'll tell you why he does it. He does it because at the snap, he does a really great job of extending his arms. So he gets the most out of it. Now, when he snaps the football, he tries to look big. So he tries to fill both A gaps right next to him on the left and right by keeping his arms up. So anybody that's coming in to those areas, he's going to have a limb for. He's going to have an arm for. And he's going to meet those guys at the gap whenever they're rushing in. And then he's going to be able to, you know, hopefully be able to redirect them and just get in there, smoothly make contact and push him past the pocket. So that's what he's

doing. But the problem is, is that because he naturally has his arms out like that, because that's his plan. When guys get into his chest, he does, he like hugs him. He does the thing where the arms are way out. So the hand place him, it's not where it needs to be. So not only is he coming out high and giving up leverage, he's exposing his chest and he's giving up leverage, which is not good. And then the final thing, he's had two labrum surgeries. He's had labrum surgery on his right shoulder and his left shoulder. And I wonder if his arms are naturally like that, outstretched, because do they hurt or are they limited if he brings his shoulders in, if he brings his hands in? And if it is a injury-caused tendency, now we're talking about something that is not going to get fixed, that is going to be an issue. Because there's a reason why he's not bringing his hands in if it's because of the labrum surgeries and it's something that if he does do it he's not

going to be able to generate power because it's probably a big discomfort on his shoulders so i don't know it's speculation but i'm trying to kind of put things together and those are my three things about joe tipman that leave him a little bit lower on the list for me than others it's educated speculation is what it is so okay so we had the tipping conversation we had the mall conversation let's take it in a positive direction i really liked tyler steen me too i'm gonna be honest before the senior bowl outside of watching other guys on alabama i didn't really give tyler steen a real look and we got in the field i saw him out there and i was like i like this guy i'm gonna go home other guys on Alabama. I didn't really give Tyler Steen a real look.

We got him in the field. I saw him out there and I was like, I like this guy. I'm going to go home, watch him. Converted from defense. He started for three years on Vanderbilt's line. He uses grad transfer to immediately play left tackle for Alabama. He's locked Trevor. He has logged over 3,000 snaps in the trenches in the SEC.

I mean, the man... The man owns real estate on an SEC field at this point. Massive, dense lower half creates drive-blocking power in the run game. There is a very obvious edge to his game with motivation to finish his blocks through the whistle. At times when climbing to the second level, he does lack a smooth nature and can miss his targets by lunging in pass Pro the thick base helps him set a strong anchor he has active hands his punch is forceful lacks ideal length caused

him to surrender pressure on that outside shoulder I think it's going to help go in a guard I think this guy's built to be a guard um crazy background story his grandfather was the great rodney davis rodney davis was a vietnam marine who was awarded the medal of honor this man threw himself on a grenade to protect his fellow soldiers sacrificed his life and was given the medal of honor obviously after his death but a war legend is his is his grandfather rodney davis tyler steen is built different whoa yeah wild background story that's awesome yeah that's awesome i like. That's awesome. I like, I mean, I like the tape, dude. Tape's good.

I like him at tackle. I like him at guard. I think he's going to be a hell of a football player. I really do. Yeah, and easy transition. I thought he was a smooth mover. I really did. I thought I was going to watch some guy who was just a power profile player, but I thought he was a really smooth mover. and the only part of his tackle tape that really

gave me a lot of hesitation was the fact that i felt like he wasn't built like a tackle like i just didn't think he had the long arms i didn't think he had the length and but i think man he carries a lot of weight in his lower body in the best way it's where he generates all the power it's where he gets the balance it's where he can anchor it's what gives me faith in the transition into into the interior so you and i saw him the same way we've got to touch on matthew bergeron well i was just gonna say i want to hear you on bergeron because you're definitely one of the uh you're the you're very very high on him compared to consensus obviously i, I love him, but I really want to hear your thoughts on Bergeron. Dude, I liked Bergeron a lot at tackle, but again, it was just the same thing with Tyler

Steen. He's just not built for it. He doesn't. So the biggest issues with Bergeron is the arm length is sub 35th percentile. It's like 33rd percentile and i think what's worse than that is that when you watch bergeron his feet are awesome they are light they are chopping at all times and he does a great job with his footwork but when you watch him kick for 45 degree sets and vertical sets,

he just doesn't cover a lot of ground. He just, he's not able to, the stride length isn't long. He's a little tight when it comes to like the groin stretching to really reach his foot out there, stay balanced and cover a lot of ground. He just doesn't have that speed and ability to cover ground when he's setting vertically in the NFL and that's going to get him in trouble because then on the times where guys are really trying to attack the outside shoulder if they do he is the perfect candidate for them to rush the outside shoulder rush the outside shoulder make Bergeron go okay I gotta kick even further I gotta

and all of a sudden he just oversets and boom, then you hit him inside. There goes a sack on the quarterback. You just let your quarterback get speared on his three-step drop or whatever, five-step drop. Instead, you take a player who's got great movement skills, great hand usage, really consistent punches,

footwork that's fantastic. I mean, when this guy's's run blocking he will get leverage on you those hands will go up and inside and then you can see it the feet never stop moving he just starts turning the feet on you and and if you had any if you thought you had any chance to put your foot in the ground and push back against him he doesn't even give you that opportunity because his feet are going at all times and he's leaving you off balance he's finishing the blocks love how love his technique for run blocking and displacing people getting them off balance finishing them and then when it comes to pass protection love the hands love how he can reset i think he's so smart in pass protection he just doesn't have the

length to cover the ground or to cover um arm moves when it comes to NFL guys. So this is a really damn good offensive lineman. One of those naturals, if you will, a guy who I talk about similarly to Peter Skoronsky, although Skoronsky has better movement skills than Bergeron does. He can get a little bit further in his kick steps so so skaronski is the better version of this kind of player but man i think bergeron's an easy second round pick easy second round pick wouldn't think twice about it offensive guard slash offensive tackle versatility i thought about giving him a late first round early second round grade i've got him as a second grade second round grade right now, but huge fan of his man. Yeah. I mean, Quebec native, um, he's got, he's like hockey enforcer level tough. He really, really is. I mean, this dude is just a total ass

kicker in the run game. He is built to be a guard. And I think he's a day one starter at guard wherever he goes. So there's depth and value to this interior class. There really, really is. I'm trying to think where else. I mean, we probably can't close the pod without talking about Skowronski, even though people have heard so much about him. Draft him and thrive. Right?

Like it's this one is this one was so easy. Like I was almost annoyed with how easy it was. He's an all-pro guard, and he's a tackle for you when you need him to. He's Elijah Vera Tucker. That's what I wrote down. He's ADT. He's Elijah Vera Tucker. That's the kind of player that we're talking about here.

Again, the arm length, and not as much for Bergeron. Like, Skoroski could cover some ground in his kickstab. I thought so too. This dude's good with it. It's simply the arm length that's going to get him in trouble. But as an interior player, I mean, he'd be an absolute monster. So you see him the same way then? Yeah, my last line on him was,

when your floor is a high-end interior player and your ceiling is a franchise tackle it's easy to land as a top five to ten player in the draft yep like he's going to be in my opinion an all-pro guard uh he could definitely survive a tackle he might even be able to drive a tackle with limitations. So that one was easy. I'll tell you what, like looking on the back end, like Anthony Bradford's a guy I watched and I was surprised.

He's got some pass pro issues, but when you wipe away the games he had to play tackle for LSU, it looks a lot better, honestly. Like he's just not a tackle. The guy's massive, number one. He's like easily carrying 335 out there on the field. He's a throwback mauler in the run game.

He was able to block Will Anderson down the field on a run play I saw. Like, this dude, I wrote down a tractor trailer with immense mass and straight line power. Bradford won't be for everyone. His build limits his mobility and balance, but his ability to relocate defenders to a different county can change an entire unit's run game. And here's the kicker with him. Like, he's big and he's a little clunky and pass pro,

but in terms of the testing and the run game, this guy gets out of the gate. Like his 10 yards split at three 32 is in the 84th percentile. So Bradford's fascinating to me. Like he's the guy I look at and go, man, if I had an O-line coach, that's like a true wizard and is like,

I only, I not only know how to help him in pass pro, but I know how to coach him in pass pro the benefit of what it does for your run game for me in round four. Like I think he's around four to five guy, which is late outweighs all of that. Like if I had like Creed Humphrey at center or Kelsey or like a very aware like hyper peripheral center that like and you keep it simple for this guy and you're like man we are gonna blow people off the snap with this dude so he's intrigued he's one of the random intriguing ones that I haven't really seen get any publicity yet uh I just wanted to mention so you have did you have osiris above avila but

i do i have osiris right behind skarovski at number two okay and then do you have steve avila three avila at three bergeron at four but man they were tiered like very close like avila 39th overall uh Bergeron low 40s so they're like they're together and Osiris 31 I think all three of those guys are are just like stud guards I have I have all three of them are second round grades I think I think Avila Avila's to me Avila had to be above Osiris Torrance. For as much as you know, I love Osiris Torrance. They're very much the same player to me. They're big, powerful guards who are both going to struggle a little bit moving laterally. So if you get them lined up against three technique guys who are trying to get across

their face, or if you got a guy who's coming on a stunt, or who's just getting across from them maybe a late late blitz that's coming from the other side it's difficult for these guys to like get over and handle players in space but avila is more aware like avila's head is consistently scanning the field for that stuff and he he anticipates it better than osiris does so these are two very similar players who i just think avila mitigates both of their weaknesses a little bit better than osiris does so that's why i had avila a little bit higher but like you said i got bergeron i have avila i have osiris basically in the same bucket as second second round braid guys watching avila help out teammates was like unreal like i can watch a highlight tape of this guy going to work yeah and using peripheral vision and staying

active and staying aware it was crazy like the mindset to be out there and be like okay i have a rep off because they overloaded the other side and i can't get to that side and it's a three-step drop and like it just doesn't matter none of that none of that like every time just looking to hunt you're looking to hunt i was like checks out like why everybody loves everybody loves this guy like mentality uh did not think he was the same run game effect impactor as osiris though that was the one thing where i was like i would say that osiris is more of an imposer in the run game for sure but i wonder my my thing about that is and maybe i'll go back to it and think about it over the next couple of weeks here for my final big board but like i got two do you believe it two weeks i know where when do you get diminishing returns like

when i get it you know what i'm saying like when do you go like okay osiris is better at it but how much does that matter compared to him being a little bit better with anticipation with making up for lateral weaknesses i don't know well hey we threw a lot at you guys on this podcast we were a little all over the place but we wanted to get to as many offensive linemen as we possibly could. Cause it's big boy day. We know that you guys got takes as well. You guys have watched these players. You guys have heard about these players. We want to hear from you now. Let us know what you think about the tackle class, the interior offensive line class, some of the centers in the class, everybody. And you can talk about them. However you want,

you can give your takes on our takes. we always love hearing that and like to go back and forth with you guys best way to get in on the conversation right here in the youtube comments if you're listening on audio only youtube.com backslash at nfl stock exchange that's where the channel is you guys have been loading up the comments for every single episode we'd love you for we've read so many different draft takes on mock drafts and rankings it's so much fun it's what makes april one of the most fun months of the year because a lot of these a lot of you guys have gotten around to watching tape and ranking these prospects and we want to hear what you think about the offensive line as well if you're audio only and you want to interact with us on twitter or instagram if you don't

have a youtube account or you just don't use YouTube, that's all right. At Tampa Bay Trey at Connor J Rogers, you can hit us up there. We got one more collab mock draft episode for you coming on Monday. And then another final ranking episode next Thursday before man, Connor draft week draft week. I don't even know like how we, how we get here. We're going to have our final mock draft. We're going to have our final big board. We're going to have our final big board. We're going to have our final predictions.

And then once we kind of solidify exactly what our draft weekend plans are with our main gigs, we will be sure to tell you guys what you can expect for the post-draft coverage as well. Got anything else before we get out of here? No, we're like still figuring out next week. So it's hard to even really, what else is new? We're not planting the pot on the pod. We're literally figuring it out after this, but just stay with us.

We've noticed we're over 8,000 subscribers on YouTube. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. And you know what? Keep them coming because summer scouting will be here before you know it. I cannot believe I'm saying that, but summer scouting will be here before you know it. Let's have I'm saying that, but summer scouting will be here before you know it.

Let's have a ball with this draft. We'll be reviewing your favorite team's drafts after the draft. Oh yeah. There's so much up ahead. I really can't wait, dude. It's going to be great stuff. Well, until Monday in the next mock draft format,

I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys for watching the NFL Stock Exchange. See you next time. Bye.