NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 183. 2024 NFL Draft Summer Scouting: Interior Defensive Line

Episode Date: July 24, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers continue their Summer Scouting Series with the interior defensive line rankings The two talk about the names to know for the potential 2024 class, where they stand heading into the 2023 college football season, and give you their Top 5 pre-season IDL rankings for the position.

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, we're moving on to the defensive side of the football for summer scouting. We're talking about interior defensive linemen. There are a lot of good interior defensive linemen. I'm not going to lie to you guys. Last year,

it was kind of a struggle coming up with our top fives for the position going into the season. This year, definitely not the case. We got a lot of guys that we're going to talk about. A lot of players who have top 50 first round potential. It's a great conversation. We're going to give you our top fives and so much more. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers with a new background in a new spot coming off of a fresh move this week here to talk to you guys about interior defensive linemen. We're going through the summer scouting series we're going to give you our top five pre-season interior defensive

linemen the 2024 nfo draft class but this is a pretty deep class so we're going to talk about a lot more than just the five that we're going to mention in our ranking so it's going to be another extensive deep dive type of an episode but connor how was the move my friend you made it you got a little you got a little decoration behind yeah Yeah, I like the move is good. Thanks for asking. The most temporary setup I could possibly have. I was like, OK, let me put my corner bookshelf up behind me and then fire up the mic. I don't even have my actual normal camera running right now. We'll get that to I got one light working for me. So this is a little bit of a bootleg Stock Exchange episode. It feels good to be back in our roots here, a little bootleg action.

But everything's good, man. I got to grind through the D-line. As soon as I got internet, like as soon as the Verizon guy left, it was like, all right, dude, it's been fun. But I got to go watch about 12 defensive linemen in the interior, the beef right now. It's the beef factory time. I didn't know if we were going to get to this episode because you told me that you were moving a couple weeks ago i was like oh shoot i don't know if we get to it but you know you're a man of the people yeah you you you tirelessly worked you slept in the office to

make this one happen so it's a cot next to me i don't even it's all literally in front of me it's like my desk and then like six box maybe seven boxes the tv's not up it's just against the couch right here in this little office i do have the beer fridge plugged in oh of course beer fridge is plugged in there's about six beers in there right now so and you know i didn't want to do white wall like i'm being held hostage style i knew that would concern our listeners to go from the classic brick to oh my god is somebody kidnapping him and forcing him to talk about idl9 in the 2024 nfl draft so we at least have something working for today people would have been like is that a green screen like is that the zoom screen i can't is that an actual wall i can't tell here but i don't

know you know now we're in a race because i've been back in charlotte now since february and i don't have jack behind me so and now we're in a race for like who could actually set up something behind i made my second place since you've now moved from there and i'm trying to meet you yeah i have a if people can see maybe in the corner i don't know if they can see i do have a door yeah it's caused door which is probably just full of crap but like there is a little tampa bay buccaneers stocking that is like up here yeah it's in the top left corner so i don't know if ryan has the camera all the way zoomed out speaking of the bucks yeah speaking of the bucks thank you for bringing this up yeah i need to shout out jared because jared if you guys remember from last year, he is a diehard sex addict, fan of the pod.

And he was the one who simulated our under 25 teams in Madden that we did last year. If y'all will remember, my team whooped Connor's candy ass last year. And it was just an abomination. It was classic madden and i am here to happily announce that we went back to back baby all of those people who hammered that your team that you had the better team for the under 25 which was overwhelming by the way i think you got like 75 80 percent of the votes that you had a comment section that I even saw some comments that the best part is I think I read one or two comments that were like man I really like Trevor's my guy actually like fuck Connor but like his team is better

like that was my dad actually that was my dad who said that yes I was like thanks like thanks I'd rather it be the opposite way I actually wish you liked me and hated my team so i don't think it was a shot on you it was maybe like bucks people who were listening to it that's fair that's normally my guy but uh listen he was cheap listen when it came to the field when it came to getting out there on the field as trevor lawrence my quarterback on that very team, says the game ain't played on paper, baby. I think 31 to 28 was the final score. This was a much closer game. I remember last year, my team threw, I think, eight interceptions, and I lost by two or three touchdowns.

I lost by a field goal. You had Jalen Hurts. I had Trevor Lawrence. Trevor Lawrence, four touchdowns. Look at my guy out here. Well, here's the thing. You want to know why it's rigged right away? Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah. Not being a sore loser. Yeah, get it out of the way. Let's hear it. Yeah. Tell me how my leading pass catcher, as I'm looking at this, is Pat Friermuth. On a team that I drafted, Jamar Chase.

Oh, no. Did you have Chase? I had Chase. Jamar Chase. Oh, no, did you have Chase? I had Chase. You had Chase. You had CeeDee Lamb, Jalen Waddell, Justin Jefferson. Oh, Justin Jefferson's not on the stat sheet. Locked up. Yeah, that's what it was.

Justin Jefferson had two catches for 27 yards. I mean, what is going on here? Micah Parsons, non-factor in the game. I mean... I can't even remember who I had. Leave it to Madden, where Friar Muth goes off after I invested all my resources into Edge and Wide Receiver. Truly great stuff here.

You'll love to see it. Who locked up Jefferson? Yeah, who did you even have at corner? Didn't I have the better corners? I had Sauce and Sertan. You had Sauce. You had Sertan. You had Trayvon Diggs.

Those were your three. I had JC Horn, Tariq Woolen, and Tyson Campbell. So all I got to say is that somebody came to play, baby. I mean, what? JC Horn was on him. Here we are again JC Horn was on him. Here we are again. He was on him. Here we are again. He was on him. All right, so anyway. It's rigged. It's fine.

It's fine. Yeah, so big shout out to Jared. Really appreciate you taking all the time to put our players into those two Madden teams. You know, even though, you know, a little bit of a special home flair with my team being the Bucks, your team being the Jets. So we absolutely love it when you guys go above and beyond and do that kind of stuff. It's what makes this podcast, this draft community, this listenership, everything.

It makes it so cool when you guys do stuff like that and kind of bring it to life. So we really appreciate that and all the hard work that Jared put into it, as well as anybody who does really cool stuff like that. But anyways, let's dig into it. Let's get into those interior defensive linemen. Connor didn't grind his brand new internet for nothing, folks. We are giving you our top fives for this interior defensive line class. But as you know, if the class is deep enough we'll give

you our thoughts on plenty more guys that are even outside of the top five so Connor with that set take the floor my friend we got a number five in this class how about the last guy or second to last guy I would call it I watched sneaking into the top five here right at five and with uh with a really nice ceiling to grow further than that somebody you and i have talked a lot about off the air and that would be clemson's rook aro ro ro what a name by the way incredible name incredible name rook aro ro ro who is now a redshirt senior, 6'4", 289. Somebody that basically the story with him is only played two years of high school football. This is nuts to me, Trevor.

He was the first Clemson signing out of the state of Michigan since 1975. So a total. Yeah, I saw that on their website too. And I was like, really? I mean, it makes sense in a sense that Clemson gets so much talent from the south. Obviously, when you're pulling into really far out of state, you could be going into California. You could be going into Texas, whatever it may be. But still, that was really out there. Something cool to see a dude that I believe he moved here. I want to say from Nigeria when he was nine.

So the late football background, his story really is that he got on the field the year that Brian Brzee lost his entire season. Brzee's second to last season when Brzee got hurt, that's when Rook got to start to play. And then last year, he was an established starter. So finished 2022, 28 tackles, eight tackles for a loss, four sacks. He broke up five passes as well.

They play him. And I'm sure you notice this right away, really up and down the defensive line. Yeah, he plays though. And, you know, once again, a unique build in that he's six foot four to eighty nine, but they'll play him at nose and shade nose. They'll play him all the way out wide, a defensive end. They'll kick him all over the different interior alignments as well. So and it's not that it's just cool.

That's what he does. He's actually pretty effective in those different roles. That's what stood out to me. I was like, OK, he he understands. And you and I have kind of selfishly dunked on this scheme now, I think, for two years in a row because and it's nothing, Clemson's a really good program and they obviously pay their coaching staff as much as anybody for a reason. It's just the fact that when you're evaluating draft prospects, we feel like this is a defensive scheme at times that doesn't always let those players

rack up the production that they could to their strengths. It's more, you know, obviously all for the benefit of the team. This is something we've talked about with Miles Murphy. We've talked about this with Trenton Simpson. We've talked about this with Brzee before. So I think with Rook, that's something to take into account. And one of the things I wrote down is the production has just been OK. He has not had that kind of year or that kind of win rate where you look at it and go, this dude is filling the stat sheet. He's tearing it up. But when you turn on the film, he can really fire off the ball. He can shoot into gaps. Even at being about 11 pounds away from 300, he can play skinny. He can play athletic. I thought when he was chasing down escaping quarterbacks, it's really interesting to see

the ability to kind of flip his hips a little bit and the ankle flexion and the ability to turn. I wouldn't call it exactly running the full hoop because that's not fair to expect of a guy that's almost 300 pounds, but he can turn the corner a little bit when he needs to. And at that size, it really stood out to me. Hands are very, very fast and active

to make sure he doesn't get stuck on blocks. He never wants to get stuck on his blocks. He really understands how to use his hands and gain leverage and work off blockers for effort plays or for outright wins. So this guy was number five for me in a class that I think a lot of guys, you know, I moved a couple of people off right away that we're going to talk about on this show. But I think it was a tough decision to move them out of that top five.

But I thought he was worth it. And I think he's also somebody that, in my opinion, credit to him for opting to go back to school because clearly he had the eligibility to declare. If you search him, he was given an accepted, I believe, a senior bowl invite last year as well. So this is somebody that could have went through the all-star process last year. He opted to go back to school and really improve on his stock. Brzee out the door, Myles Murphy out the door. I think the snap count will obviously be significantly high for Clemson this year. I think the production can turn up now that he has a couple more years of football under his belt.

He's starting to use those athletic tools to become a playmaker, not just a disruptor, but a total playmaker. So I really like to row, row, row and think that he can be a big riser this year with what's put, what's going to be put on his plate in that Clemson defense. Yeah. He's, you know, you and I had this conversation before we hit record and we try to not do the podcast before the podcast. So we always try to limit, you know, our conversations as we're going through the guys that, you know, we're about to bring up just to make sure we didn't miss anybody glaring. And if we did to just be aware of that before we start the show. But you and I were chatting about how many guys we had in this group who we felt were top eight, top nine in the class. We call them priority watches is what you and I. Yeah, and last year, it got me to just thinking about how you've got a row-to-row at five.

I have him at six. But when I think about the interior defensive line class for last year, just to give people an idea, I'm looking at the summer scouting ranking that I had for the interior defensive line class last year. Jalen Carter, Brian Brzee, Siaki Ika, obviously, Kalai Jikansi hadn't really come on yet. So we didn't have him in there. Adetemi Adeware, Keanu Benton. Like those guys were kind of throughout the season ads that were within the top five. But, you know, I had Mike Morris from Michiganigan moro jomo from texas you're gervin dexter from florida but shoot man if i would have watched last year's interior defensive line class

and then thrown what we've seen from a row a row right now i might have him as d line two right behind behind jalen carter right i might have had him a year ago from now if we would have put him in that same situation. I probably would have had him as like DT2 or DT3 going into the year. Yeah. You and I were really hoping, we were projecting Brzee. We hadn't really seen it take off yet. So when you factor in that, you're right, Trevor,

that the back end of this class has already been maybe more productive than the higher end of that class. And that's why, like, it's going to be an exciting year, I think, to need an interior defensive lineman. I don't think you're not going to get anybody like the way that we talked about Jalen Carter as being a potential top five pick. I don't see certainly from the group that we watch from these guys. I don't know if there's anybody who's going to reach that kind of ceiling, but there are a ton of players who I could see as back end of the first round, early second round, or just day two overall defensive tackles that we get way more of those

players from this class, even from what we're seeing in summer scouting. And Oro Oro is a great example of that. And there's a couple of other players that we'll get to that. I want to make sure that I mentioned since he's six for me you know you mentioned the measurables he's six foot four now he's around 290 pounds he was a defensive end prospect coming into Clemson which also fortifies kind of your argument of what you said where Clemson Clemson it feels like over the last couple of years has just drafted athletes and said,

hey, we're going to draft you because you're insanely athletic. And then we're going to kind of figure it out later. Or we're going to make the most athletic front we possibly can. So it's not going to look as traditional as you might want from other evaluations that you're going to do during the summer. But when you take into account that he was about 270 coming into clemson now he's gained 20 pounds and they moved him from an edge player to more of an interior player although i think the versatility again that you mentioned is a big plus for him that is good background information to see how he plays.

He gets blown up against double teams, right? I mean, he doesn't have the sand in the pants, if you will. He's a lighter player. Middleweight in the heavyweight arena. Yeah. When you watch him, even when he's doing a little corkscrew technique, you know, trying to put the knee down and try to take on the double teams, he's going to get blown off the ball. He's not this one-tech, three-technique defensive tackle

that you can always just put on the interior and know that he's going to be serviceable for you no matter what. If he's playing at an interior spot, you want him attacking. You want to say to him, pick a gap, get across the face, swim, move him, swipe the hands, do whatever you need to do to try to get in the backfield, go make a tackle do whatever you need to do to try to get in the backfield go make a tackle whether it's a run player go get a sack if it's the quarterback and when you focus on that part of his strengths there's no doubt about it he is somebody who is

really fun to watch the motor never quits on this guy either and that's what i love about yeah he plays super hard i think he's really slippery when it comes to blocks right even if he goes straight up into guys and it's like all right you're clearly losing this battle for power he'll very you know he'll always be working to get to that half man and attack half of the shoulder to where all of a sudden you would have said maybe a second ago before in that, okay, this offensive lineman's going to beat a row, row here. He's going to block him up. And then he just gets loose. And all of a sudden he's behind him and you go, Hey, how did that happen? And I think that just goes to how slippery

he is, how much of a worker he is, how fast the hands are and how much better he is getting at, at shedding blocks. So I had him at number six, just because it is kind of tough to say you're going to put him on the field, no matter what, because of how light he is and interior defensive lineman. If you are a very versatile multiple front, you might prioritize him really well. But I still think that right now, that's probably more of a day two type of a player that i'm describing than some of

the other guys who i think you could make a case for for being day one guys so i had him at number six so i had him pretty close to how you had him did you watch michael hall on pen on ohio state i did yeah so i had michael hall at five okay oh wow we did not plan that this is perfect no way four no i don't have him in my top five, but everything we just, the conversation we just had with Rook can at times be fitting to Michael Hall in terms of, I wrote down, so I didn't have Michael Hall in my top five and I'm going to literally give the floor to you in three seconds, but I wrote down like a little note in the bottom of all my other notes. Can he be this year's Kalijah Cansey?

Yes. So that is kind of what we're talking about here with Michael Hall Jr., Ohio State's defensive tackle prospect, who I have at number five, who I lost sleep over who I was going to put at five between Rook and no. But it was close. It really was. These two guys are pretty similar and i ended up giving the nod to hall because i do think he's a little bit better right now or at least shows more of a straight line path to becoming potentially that khalid jacanti type player where you go okay you're small but you're

so disruptive i i i gotta have you on my football team and i think i think there's a little if you do you ask me personally and clearly you as well because you didn't have him in your top five when i initially watched michael hall i did not have him in my top five I had him around like seven so I'd like six and I actually went back to kind of watch him a second time and the reason why is because there's a lot of people out there who are talking very highly of Michael oh yeah like top 15 DT1 type of labels and I did not see that type of player but I did go back and i watched a couple more games of them and it's it was sparing they need to i i'm excited to see him probably play a full season maybe even double the snaps that he got last year but when you look at his measurables ohio state's got him listed at

six foot two 285 pounds so that would be the 25th percentile if he does show if he does measure in at six foot two and 285 would be the 70 or sorry the seventh percentile i believe when i was talking to last year he said he played close to 285 but he was cutting weight and he kind of was more down to 280 to be extremely explosive when he was at the Combine. So I think he said that he played 285, if I'm remembering correctly. But he was somewhere around that range. So he was a four-star. Michael Hall was a four-star defensive tackle prospect. Ended up choosing Ohio State over Cincinnati, Maryland, Penn State.

Redshirt his first year year and then ended up becoming kind of this rotational player the next couple of seasons. I did think this was noteworthy because we're going to talk about Michael Hall's speed, explosiveness, and quick twitch. I don't know how true this is right i wasn't there i'm not the one gathering the data but in a recent ohio state football zebra report which is the speed test right i believe it's the the equipment that they wear when they are on the field yeah practicing hall was the fastest player on the defensive side of the ball during spring practices, maxed out at 21.4 miles per hour, which would be stupid. That's insanity.

For a player who is 285. Five sacks in 2022, 16 pressures, which was a 9.9 pass rush win percentage. He's kind of got a little bit of a bowling ball build to him. And that allows him to be pretty low at the snap, you know, six foot two, you go, all right, and the measurables aren't so great. But of course, you've got there's two sides to every coin, right? Okay, you're not the biggest guy in the world. But low man wins leverages king in the trenches. So when you are smaller, you're hoping that that gives you some natural leverage and it definitely does for Michael Hall I think the swim move is absolutely devastating at times you know he he has a couple

of clips what more than a couple I should say throughout the season where the ball is snapped his hands go up the offensive lineman's hands go up and then all of a sudden Hall is swiping them away and swimming and the offensive lineman is just whiffing at air within the blink of an eye and those are the plays that you go holy cow that's special that's special stuff the reaction time the hand quickness the body quickness to be able to shoot those gaps swipe those hands swim over interior offensive lineman and get into the backfield so again the way that we talked about Oro Oro, if you are having him in attack mode, one gap penetrator,

that is what Michael Hall is going to do best for you. I am worried about how often he can be a three-down defensive lineman at the NFL level because he very clearly got overwhelmed by power when he was in a situation when not even getting double teamed, I would say. When he was in a situation where you knew he wasn't given the attack mode assignment where it was like, hey, we're in a four down front, hold the line scrimmage. It's first and 10. They're going to run the ball. He's getting moved. He's getting moved off the line scrimmage. It's first and 10. They're going to run the ball. He's getting moved. He's getting moved off the line scrimmage. And then if you, you know, you talk about combo blocks, if he's aligned as a three technique, he's getting blown off the ball.

He got washed, washed off of the, off the line scrimmage. So there are power parts of his game and just overall weight parts of his game that I'm worried about. You don't want to make a living betting on players to be Kalai Jekansi. And we even talk about Kalai Jekansi right now, and he hasn't played it down in the NFL. Jensi has not even answered these questions yet.

And I see people saying like, oh, this is going to be this year's Kalai Jekansi. Jensi hasn't even done anything yet. Right. He was a first round pick. He was a top round pick his top 20 pick so i think that's the bar that people are comparing him to but you don't even know how

successful it's going to be the aaron donald mold it's basically one of one anybody else who's ever been close to the weight that aaron donald is that plays on the interior defense blind is too small to play the position and it's it's pretty much him and Michael Bennett, right? Right, and I'm worried about Hall for that reason. Just does he have the ability to be strong at the line of scrimmage, hold up better against double teams, hold up better against just power blocking concepts, because the rest of that pass rushing profile is there. And I think it's a little bit further along,

and I think it's even a little bit quicker than it is for a row or row. That's why with those two guys kind of similar, I gave the nod to Michael Hall to get into that five spot. I I'm with you. I mean, obviously we just kind of had them flipped in a sense, but I had a lot of good things to say about him. I mean, I wrote down extremely explosive and loose. It was interesting that three of his five sacks were on third and long they really let him just pin his ears back and fire away and it's straight he's he's gonna win um he knows how to use his elusiveness which you said for the lack of mass and power that he has you know against the run he's got quick feet he's got the swim move. I wrote that down. Like you said, he even has a spin move there.

It's just interesting. Only 257 snaps last year. I wrote down injuries, limitations, or both. And it feels like both. He had a bunch of injuries. I remember he was hurt. Yeah, he was definitely hurt. And that's something that people are bringing to the table,

which is like, okay, I can only evaluate what I can evaluate. If you want to sit here and say that he's going to be a completely different player and a completely different run defender when he's fully healthy, you can say that, but it's hard for me to think it's going to be that different than what we saw on there, especially for how good of a pass rusher he was because clearly he was healthy enough to be that good of a pass rusher, right? So I don't think it can be totally one or the other so so that brings me to number four who is um this is your stack house from georgia oh wow nice and we are getting

a totally different conversation than the one we just had compared to a row row and michael hall stack house i came away from watching this dude on the Georgia defensive line, 6'3", 327. He's a senior. And I looked at it, and I'm just like, man, he could play in the NFL today. And it's not going to be an overwhelming amount of versatility that he brings to the table for you,

but he is a very stout, immovable nose tackle that does it in the SEC. He is doing it against top flight competition. They are not moving him off the ball. He clears out a ton of space for everybody else in that Georgia defense. I just wrote down with Stackhouse, you know, former four-star recruit that has had to be patient because he's been in defensive line rooms that include, but are not limited to Jalen Carter, Jordan Davis, Devante Wyatt. And I don't know if people remember those guys all went in the first round. So with Stackhouse, it feels like he might be this day two guy that doesn't have the full package like some of those guys did. But he is so stout, Trevor, and so strong and powerful. I wrote down he's a giant

detour to running back pathways. Like it feels like the man is just a big orange detour sign. And you don't get any credit for that in the stat sheet. But the amount of times he's to gapping, he's eating space, he's two gapping, he's eating space, he's not getting moved, he's winning at the point of attack and a running back goes, oh shit, I need to go to a different alley. That's something number one, usually is your tackle for loss for his teammate. And two is a disruptor of the play. And that is something Stackhouse is so, so good at. I also wrote away from the physical profile, right? Like he's 6'3", he's 327, he's huge.

You can't move him. He has a really good feel for what the blocking assignment is trying to do to him. And I was like, that is the brain with the brawn. He kind of always knew when somebody was trying to reach him or cut him off or trick him into going one way. He's just a very heady player against the run. And when you have that much physical ability against the run, but you also know how to diagnose not only what the running back wants to do, but what the blocking assignment in front of you wants to do. That's how you make a lot of plays

against the run or help your teammates make plays for the run at the NFL level. I wrote a surprising quick V and hips considering the mass he carries. I'm not saying this dude is Von Miller, but it was a couple of times where I was like, damn, he's moving pretty well on those light feet and, and, you know, turning pretty well for that amount of size. He has the bottom line with stack house and why he's maybe not in the NFL today and why he's number four on my list, which is still in this group.

Number four is something to be proud about. The pass rush is non-existent right now, Trevor. It's not. And there's flashes, right? But I'm talking about over the long stretch. I mean, this is a guy that had a 2.9% win rate. Yeah. They don't really ask him to do it. He's he's the classic hold the point of attack, eat space, clog, let everybody else have the fun. So maybe he does get more opportunity to do that this year. That really helps his draft stock. But as a run defender, as a nitty gritty tough guy in the trenches that helps everybody else on first and second down, I loved Stackhouse. I looked at him and said, honestly, out of my top five, as I stare at it right now, I might be the most comfortable putting him in an NFL training camp

today. It's close between him and number one, but he, I just, I want to make it clear. That's how good he is at the thing he does best, which is defending the run. Yeah i so man i i love that you have him at four i don't have him anywhere close to four but we see him pretty similarly like i have him kind of in the back part of my top 10 but i have him that low just because i don't think he's ever going to become a pass rusher. Yeah, he probably isn't. You know, this is the Jordan Davis role that he is now playing, but the difference is he's not as big or as strong as Jordan Davis. And I think that a lot of people looked at Jordan Davis and they kind of had a little bit of the same conversation. You know, it was a little bit easier because when you looked at Jordan Davis, he physically just looked completely different with his size. But Davis was somebody who

you is not going to be this like polished finesse in the backfield, one gap penetrating pass rusher. He's just not. But he just became so valuable as a two gapping anchor in the middle that you had to give him value because of how that had a ripple effect on the rest of the defense i don't know if stackhouse is going to be that type of dominant player but there's no doubt that i think our strengths and weaknesses of this guy is going to read exactly the same he is so stout in run defense. He had almost a 30% positively graded run defense plays last season, which means when this guy was asked to hold the point of attack,

he's holding the point of attack from a zero, a one, a two-eye, a three technique, whatever it is, he's not giving it up. And those are alignments where you face a lot of double teams you have to hold your own and he does so if you try to single block this guy with a guard or a center he is holding you with one arm fully extended at will and he is just peering into the backfield right staring at the running back going it doesn't matter pick pick which way you want to go, left or right. I'm going to tackle you.

So with that being said, how much value do you put in a player like that if you believe you can get that type of impact from that guy all the time? Because then you're forcing offensive lines to say, okay, here's our rushing attack plan this week the double teams have to start with stackhouse so we're probably going to occupy two of our interior offensive linemen to stackhouse at all times well that's a ripple effect then you're winning gaps you're winning a lot more gaps then you can be more free to bring blitzers in at the linebacker level the secondary the safety level so if you believe that you are getting that kind of value consistently from him,

then he doesn't get washed out as just another run defender in the league. I'm a little worried that he's not going to give that pass rush that you're ever going to want from a player like that. But if you're a defense that's looking to add an odd front nose, this is your dude. You probably won't find many other players who have the ability to do it like Stackhouse does. I have him in Cincinnati's Dante Corleone, pretty close,

outside of my top five. And Corleone is the same way. He is a massive, strong run defender in the middle. He had an elite run defense grade last year. He was actually, let me make sure I give him his flowers here because he deserves them. He had a, this is Dante Corleone now, 93.5 overall grade, which was first in the FBS among all defensive linemen last year. And a 94.4 run defense grade which was again first in the fbs for all defensive linemen now you add in the fact that he also had a 15.2 pass rush win percentage and that's why i have him in

stackhouse close but i see the explosiveness and the twitchiness with corleone whereas i don't stack out so i man i i i kind of really love that you got him in the top five so we're not able to talk about him like this yeah i loved him i loved his floor i looked at him and i'm like man if i get him in the third round and he's a dalvin tomlinson type of player sure my defense just got a lot better now like you said i agree with you the pass rush upside of guys i have behind him multiple guys i have behind him and not just rook not just hall is way more tantalizing but it's impressive when a guy is nfl caliber at something important right now and had the chance to go to the nfl and didn't

and maybe he can win a third national title. So, so I have a player that I had a number five, who is not in your top five. You have two players now at five and four who are not in my top five. I know who I'm going to have in, in my top three that you don't have in your top five at all, but we'll get to that. Okay. We'll your top five at all but we'll get to that uh okay we'll get we'll get we'll get to that in a little bit i got a shout out to our friends at draft kings first if you want to get on fantasy what'd you say good teaser oh there you go stay tuned that's that you gotta listen you gotta listen to the ad you gotta stay tuned yeah you're making everybody you're making everybody happier uh if you want to get in on the fantasy

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DK dollars. Agent eligibility restrictions apply void were prohibited see draftkings.com slash promotions for details connor i get it i gotta give you a salute for my number four oh hello because he was one of the first guys that you watched yes and he was the last guy that i watched in fact we are recording this podcast on sunday i had a little extra time sunday before we recorded and i was like oh you know what connor mentioned this guy let me watch him now i gotta be my top five interior defensive line beautiful thing to see chris jenkins jr from mich. If the name sounds familiar, well, yes.

His father, Chris, played. Yes, that Chris Jenkins played in the NFL for 10 years. His second round draft pick, four-time All-Pro defensive tackle. Jets legend? Oh, Jets legend, Hard Knocks legend. Wait, why was he a Hard Knocks legend? There's this scene the last time the Jets were on hard knocks before the 2010 season. And obviously they will be again this year.

The best scene of that, besides the famous Rex speeches, is they do goal line in the rain. Pouring, pouring rain. And remember, practices in the NFL and training camp were a lot different 13 years ago. They were indeed. They were pretty wild. There's a goal line drill in the pouring rain.

Joe Namath is at practice. He's got his hood like his windbreaker on and you see the rain flying off the hood and Rex is yelling at them. Everyone's yelling at everyone and they do a goal line drill and Chris Jenkins blows it up. I think Sanchez fumbles a snap and Jenkins keeps blowing up the drill. And he says, get the fuck out of here. This is my fucking drill at the end of the drill.

And I think the offense had to do pushups like they lost the drill. And he's just screaming. He takes his helmet off and throws his helmet. It's it's iconic scene in the rain. It's one of my favorite. I think no bias aside, like bias aside, I think it's one of my favorite i think no bias aside like bias aside i think it's one of the best hard knocks football scenes like true football pads on pad scenes ever well hard knocks is also where we got the rex ryan speech where he's talking to the team

and he's like oh like you want to fly under the radar like you want to be an underdog yeah that was hard knocks right where he's like screw that like you want to be the team with the high expectations because now you now you get to go out and prove everybody right or everybody wrong however they're talking about you so i mean i love that mentality too man look the underdog mentality is really fun i've rooted for a lot of teams certainly in the tampa sports market that have been known as the you know the smaller town underdog teams and it's fun it's it's it's a fun way to do it but it's also fun when you're the juggernaut and you get to go out there and prove you're the juggernaut i think that that's uh that's also great so i i love that speech by by rex anyways, Chris Jenkins Jr. He's at Michigan. So Michigan's got him listed at 6'2.5". And I think they're saying that he's closer to 300 pounds now,

but I know last season he was closer to like 290-ish. Between 290-295 is probably what he played at last season. Yep. For him to be the run defender that he is at 290, which, remember, we listed Oro Oro and Michael Hall Jr. right around like 285, 290, whatever itris jenkins doesn't have that much more weight on him and the man's an absolute anchor he is this was one of my favorite watches that i had and he ended up being that last prospect that i watched 22 total pressures last year so just an eight and 8.8 pass rush win percentage. We'll get to that in a second.

But 29.2 positively graded run defense plays last year. He missed only one tackle on 233 run defense snaps. This guy was an animal. For you to almost have one third of your run defense snaps be positively graded in our system. Game right, you're wrecking the game. You got to think about how run defense works be positively graded in our system and game right you're wrecking the game you got to think about how run defense works in our grading scale for pff you know when you do your job when you do what is expected of you you don't get a necessarily like a positive grade you get what would be like an like an even it's like okay, you did your job. You get higher positive grades or higher

negative grades by how far above and beyond or how much you fall short of doing what you were supposed to do. So for you to have that high of an impact as a run defender is pretty astounding. And especially for you to do it at 290. Man, I was blown away. You can see the former NFL player in him right off the jump. I mean, he is so low in his stance getting off the ball. He uses leverage every single time he makes contact. There are offensive linemen that are even of similar size of him that don't have a prayer of getting underneath his shoulder pads i mean this guy is not the ball is not snapped and

he is not standing straight up to then hand fight against people he is going straight at you as if he is going like underneath the tarp or underneath the table you know they talk about that for pass rushing he's doing that with run defense too as he's getting into your your chest, because then the hands are coming up. They're at your shoulders. They're lifting you up. All of a sudden the offensive linemen are on their heels and they got no idea what to do with it. Combo blocks. This guy, again, two nineties, low two nineties. We're looking at centers and guards. We're looking at, I watched ohio state game and he went up against dewan jones and he is holding this guy on the line of scrimmage he's taking double teams he's not yielding a single yard i just could not believe how high of a floor this guy had i think there is room for him to grow

as a pass rusher but you can definitely tell when a talented mich defensive line, he's really honed in on run defense. Like you can tell that is what he has worked on a lot over the last two years, knowing once I get on the field, once they trust me and run defense, then I can start working on myself as a pass rusher. Then I can really work on that because he just doesn't have a ton of like pass rush moves. He doesn't really have a big pass rush plan right now.'ll hand swipe on you he'll do a little bit of a swim move he'll hit you with a club rip every now and then but a lot of what he does is strength speed to power you know attacking the half man getting to the outside or inside shoulder and then kind of you know bending and and ripping around the offensive lineman that's really the extent of what he consistently does as a pass rusher.

But I believe there's a little bit more in there as well. So you talked about the floor that you love when his ear stack house, man, I love the floor with Chris Jenkins, Jr. The motor is always running hot. You could tell this dude just absolutely loves ball. And I would be shocked if he is anything lower than a second round pick with first round potential. That's

how I view Chris Jenkins Jr. Dude, you nailed it. I'm with you all the way. I have him as the second best defensive tackle in this draft right now. I mean, I mean, hearing you talk about him, how can people not be excited about that? Here's the thing that I jumped out right away when I was done watching him. I was like, he's better than Mozzie Smith. He's better than Mozzie Smith. And there's a couple of things to weigh here, right? A guy that big and athletic as Mozzie was, is always going to be drafted a little earlier than you would expect compared to what the tape showed. And I don't think that's to completely take away from the player Mozzie was coming out. But when you watch Jenkins in that Michigan defense last year, the way he affects the

entire front seven alters the game week by week. He is so stout against the run. He is so strong. He is violent. Like you said, Trevor, he is technically so refined with his hands, his leverage. He's about 70 pounds lighter than his dad was, which is wild. His dad was a tank. His dad was a mammoth, 360.

It was also a different time. It was a different DLU. He's playing early 2000s. You're just trying to get as many pounds as you possibly can on somebody. That's a very, very fair point. Jenkins is, you know, the thing with him is, and you asked the question,

right? Like, how can he become a first round pick? Cause I think he's going to be a top 50 pick. How does he play his way into the first round? He's just got a lot of stalemates in the pass rush mode right now. That 7.6 win rate. There's flashes where I'm like,

he can do it. I saw him start to develop this, this counter spin movie, did it against Nebraska. And I was like, he can do it. I saw him start to develop this, this counter spin move. He did it against Nebraska. And I was like, if you start honing in on that a little bit, I didn't see it in Nebraska. You got to send me that one. Against Nebraska. He, he countered with a spin. And I was like, cause the way he moves at that size, I was like, okay,

like that's something to really work on. He could slide up and down the defensive line. He is just so nasty at the point of attack. Like you said, I loved him, loved him. I, I was a little surprised that he had to go back to school. Maybe he just wanted to, but man, he's in a really, really good place in this class. You have them D line for, I have them D I have them D line to absolutely absolutely love the player and i can't wait to watch him this year because if he builds on how great of a run defender he is right now and how smart of a player he is and how technically refined he is with a little more pass rush flair he can sneak into the back end around one he really can so i definitely agree that brings me to three for you right d

line three here's my biggest projection of anybody i have in the rankings that would be leonard taylor from miami okay this is one where there's a lot of meat on the bone here he is the classic guy in the top five of he could be a first rounder at the end of this year he could be going he could be going back to school and i'll take the swing here at number three because i couldn't put him ahead of jenkins because he is not nearly the player jenkins is right now or my number one but there's a lot to like with taylor right now there really is and this is the beginning at the beginning because they've been a obviously high profile program for a while. But I don't know if you've noticed this.

And to reiterate, I am a draft analyst and I do a lot of NFL coverage. I am not a college football. I'm a fan of college football, but I don't I don't I follow the NIL and the recruiting process more loosely than anything else I do in football. Everything else takes higher priority because I don't talk about recruiting until a guy's a prospect. I don't talk about the NIL. It seems like from afar, Trevor, Miami has a lot of resources. They do indeed. They do indeed.

Since NIL is taking off. Yes. And Taylor, I'm not going to say he's the first guy of that, but this is a former five-star recruit. Okay. And it's not that Miami never got a five-star recruit before this, but Taylor's a former five-star. Big expectations at the U.

And you're starting to see why with what he did last year. In 2022, 10 and a half tackles for a loss. So this is a very explosive player. This is a player with a lot of bursts. He had three sacks, he had an interception as a true sophomore. So many guys in this class are fifth year players or seniors. This dude was in year two and he was starting to make some flashes of why he could be an upper echelon interior defensive lineman in this class. A lean 305 pounds allows him to play with that burst and quickness. 16.2% pass rush win rate in 2022. That's a pretty fat number,

especially once again for a player as young as this guy. But when you have the athletic tools he has, he was winning against guards and centers consistently. Pop in his hands that enable him to disengage. And then he rushes very skinny through gaps he knows how to dip his shoulder he knows how to angle his hips to really fit through those gaps he can bend he can 300 he's 305 pounds six foot three and he can bend legitimately dude there and they could play him on the edge i mean he is a very unique defensive

lineman in terms of the athletic gifts he has. He's very effective at threatening to rush wide against an offensive lineman with a big step. But then he knows how to cross their face back inside. And when you're that quick at that size, the threat of the outside shoulder always scares the offensive lineman. And it makes them cheat a little bit. But when you're also that quick and that big and you play skinny, you're going to be able to cross the face of that player a lot easier than your typical interior defensive lineman. I love that he's got the two hand swipe cooking already. There was a couple of two hand swipes where I was like, yes, when you are that fast and agile and bursty and your hands have a little bit of lightning in them,

get the two-hand swipe working because that's a quick win. The thing with him right now of taking that next step, there's quite a few times that he gets bumped around by powerful strikers and he doesn't reset the same as a 320-pound year four player. He gets bumped, he falls, or he can't reset the rush. I look at him though Trevor and I say man you continue to get stronger you continue to get some seasoning you have pass rush gifts and athletic gifts that profile as a top 40 pick in most drafts and that's what I see with Leonard

Taylor right now I so I have Taylor too I have Leonard Taylor at two. I mean, I didn't know. This was one where I'm like, man, Trevor might not have him in the top five. Am I taking too big of a swing here? I guess we're eye to eye on this one. Well, I have a player in my top three that you don't have in your top five. So we've narrowed it down to that. I thought, so going back 20 minutes ago in this podcast, when I said that I think I know who it is,

I thought it was going to be Taylor. Interesting. I thought I was going to have Taylor too, and I thought you were going to have Taylor outside of your top five. Oh, no. Because you mentioned it. He needs seasoning, if you will. Keep playing.

He needs to keep more snaps. More snaps this year. He needs more experience. There's no doubt about it. And I think to keep more snaps, more snaps this year. He needs more experience. There's no doubt about it. And I think that Miami is going to unleash him this year. Plain and simple. They don't make them like Taylor six foot three, 305 pound build.

I mean, he looks like a super sized linebacker who's playing three technique defensive tackle. Yes. It's 100%, but he, he has the build of a linebacker who's playing three-technique defensive tackle. Yes, 100%. But he has the build of a linebacker, and it makes you think, and when I say linebacker, I mean, again, super-sized, 305 pounds. He fills out that frame as good as you could possibly want a player with 305

that's not on insane amounts of anabolic steroids to fill out a 305 frame. And when I watched him in the middle of the miami defensive line i'm just looking at him before i watched my first snap and i was like all right what are we doing here like is this guy going to be generational or is he just going to get pushed around the whole time just because he was athletic in high school and i watched like two snaps and i go okay it's closer yeah the former not i'm not saying not saying he's generational yet but the mold is absolutely there for him and he graded out really well last year um even with a limited number of snaps 16.2 percent pass rush win percentage for a guy who

still does not know what he's doing yet yeah right, right. He's kind of out-athleting. Bullrush is insane. Basically had his way with whatever offensive lineman he was going up against. He can shoot gaps better than basically any 300-pounder you're going to find. Lower body strength is incredible, no question about it. Super versatile player. I think he could play as a DN in a 4-3, and he could play all the

way into a nose technique if you need him to if you needed him to if you're running an odd front so his versatility to me is um is is through the roof it's simply just about having more pass rush moves you know he's got the hand speed you mentioned what he was able to do when he's able to to swipe away the hands of interior offensive linemen you've seen him do i i i watched him a couple times just execute some devastating push pulls i mean we're talking yeah i'm we're talking ball is snapped he's up into the chest offensive linemen's taking two stumbles back and then all of a sudden he is just throwing them to the ground next to him like it is nothing like they are a barrel of hay you know so i think think that he's out of this world potential wise.

So that's why I had him at number two. Listen, there's no argument there. This is the kind of prospect that you look at and go, what he was given to work with as a true sophomore. He has a massive opportunity here. Yeah, massive opportunity here. Yeah. Massive opportunity.

I mean, this is a guy that if I was writing a first round mock draft today, I'd put him in there. I would too. I'd put him in there because this is the type of player that makes a leap. And he honestly, for what he did as a true sophomore, that alone was impressive enough. So I have, so I have two. Can I guess who you have at three? Please. At three. impressive enough so i have so i have two can i guess who you have at three please at three this could go one of two ways is it mason smith it is mason smith damn i'm good do you have a new top five i do not okay so this is that was that would have been my guess my guess

would have been for you to not have Mason Smith. And it does make sense. He's number seven for me, and he was hanging on to the fifth spot for a very long time. And this is going to be a really interesting combo that I understand. So here is why I could get it. And I don't mean this as a cop-out for anybody listening. If you wanted to have Mason Smith, I mean, DT1 would be quite a projection. But if you wanted to have him. People will i mean dt1 would be quite a projection but if you wanted to do it if you wanted to have him in your top three i will say of of this really deep and talented interior defensive line class if you wanted to have him top three and be like okay if you want

to have him closer to six seven eight like connor does it'd be like okay and again not trying to say that as a cop out but there's a whole story here within former five-star defensive lineman i mean just one of the highest recruits that they had uh in that class that 2020 class i believe it was he played no 2021 he played as a true freshman for lsu and played a decent amount. And then last year, which was supposed to be his big breakout year, he plays seven total snaps in the FSU game in week zero and tears his ACL. So like last year was supposed to be the big, like, okay, this is Mason Smith's time coming out party. We're going to be talking about him as a top 15 pick, whatever. And seven plays into his 2022 season, he tears his ACL.

So everything that we are evaluating and watching is from a true freshman in the SEC perspective. And I'll also say that a decent amount of his tape as a true freshman came as a defensive end. They put him at defensive end a lot. So I had to kind of sort his just plain old defensive tackle snaps when I was watching his film. And I can't remember if it's close to 50, 50 or not, but it's not like this guy was even playing a rotational role, just as an interior defensive lineman. The reason why they wanted to be so versatile with him and get him on the

field, however they could, he's six foot six 310 pounds like he has the frame the length the size the strength the everything to be able to play as a strong side defensive end as a five technique defensive end uh he can obviously play as a three technique defensive tackle if he wants to but you could put him as a four iron tight fronts with three down linemen like lsu did quite a bit and he's also got such great length and strength that sometimes they put him in nose tackle as well so versatility is off the charts with him and he is a player who i i my scouting report for him reads very similarly to that of leonard taylor he just doesn't have a lot of experience yep it's unfair to watch a guy's true freshman tape from two years ago and try to stack it up technically with a player who's going to be, say, a senior. You watch his tape and you watch Chris Jenkins' tape, and it's not going to look the same.

It's not supposed to look the same. So this, to me, was a major projection type of a ranking. But just like I said for Leonard Taylor, they don't make him like they make Mason Smith. I mean, for him to be 6'6", 310 pounds, and yet really use leverage pretty well, especially when he remembers to keep that pad level low. Not get pushed back when he does lose leverage.

Hold up as well as he does against double teams. Be able to attack the outside shoulder as a defensive end like he did a little bit his freshman year, and have some devastating pass rush moves when he got the technique right. I mean, all that to me tells me, all right, it's all in front of you. You're crazy athletic.

You're, you're a math because his, his measurables are 95th percentile in height at six foot six, and then 56th percentile in weight at three 10. I watched an interview with him recently where he said that he was closer to three 15. So it's going to probably bump him into like the 60th percentile. He's got the size. He 60th percentile. He's got the size. He's got the length. He's got the explosiveness. He's got the natural strength to him. He's got the quick twitch ability. He just doesn't have the snaps. So Mason Smith, you could have him as a third round pick right now. If you were saying he does not have the

consistent technique to be able to play in the nfl i'd go okay i can't disagree with that statement but i also see people put him in the first round because they say it's only a matter of time that this guy stays healthy even coming off a torn acl that he could be one of the bigger forces in the interior defensive line at the pro level so wide range of of outcomes for him here but if i project him to pick up where he left off last year coming off of that acl tear is a player that's going to be a top 50 pick i think listen it makes a lot of sense i it was so interesting how torn i was on his whole ranking for this show, because the tools are all there as a first rounder. There's no denying that he was good as a true freshman in 2021, but I almost went in with too big of expectations watching that tape.

I thought this was going to be just a total freak as a freshman. And I came away, he had four sacks, right? Three of them were against McNeese State. Right. And he had 12 hurries. Well, two of them were against McNeese State. He really was neutralized by almost everyone as a freshman

besides McNeese State and Central Michigan. Yeah, those are the two that have his highest grades. There's no doubt about it. And I was like, okay. And those are the teams, when you have a full SEC schedule, the teams that you can win off to just straight being a better athlete than the other people are going to be McNeese State and Central Michigan. All due respect.

He could have a, no, you're right. He could have a massive year and end up in the first round like everybody expects. I think it's one of, you're right. He could have a massive year and end up in the first round like everybody expects. I think it's one of those where I had to pump my brakes a little bit and be like, let's see what the kid does this year. Hopefully he comes back as strong as everyone expected him to be in year two before the injury. And we'll see. And I'll be rooting for him the whole way.

I just thought this class had a lot of established players. And it was tough to put someone that is not established yet in my eyes ahead of ahead of them but it's but you're right the counter argument is when everybody reads the first mock drafts of the year at the end of august this dude's going to be in almost every single one of them yeah no i i i think we see him similarly when it comes to the product that we watch from tape it's just how you perceive it it's just the lens in which you are watching what we see um speaking of pumping your own brakes before we get to number one if you guys haven't heard yet it's smooth sack summer when you're playing around in the summer sun make sure you

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All right, number one. If we don't have the same number one... Something went horribly wrong. We're going to have quite the discussion. Burn the boats if that happens. I mean, God. you're on newton right yep johnny newton johnny aka johnny newton from illinois i don't know so i i see that like some people call him johnny newton on 247 that him he's listed as a recruit as Johnny Newton, but then Illinois lists him as Jerzan Newton.

Yeah. So I've been watching this dude for, I feel like a year now because he played in the Illinois defense and the Illinois defense was just loaded with NFL talent. And he had stupid high grades in our system for the last year now. He didn't. And I had no idea. Anybody calls him johnny until

i watched one broadcast play today just to always before we do the show i always reconfirm that almost every name is is right i watch broadcasts of or an interview with them saying how to pronounce it smart twice a pro and it was like johnny newton with the sack? And I'm like, who? So does he have a brother? He actually does. Yes. Wait, wait,

his brothers are all named the same. Not like the same name. Hold on. Close though. It's, it's extremely close. Is it all juror? And then something else. And yeah,

basically, hold on. I got it right here. Uh, his brothers, Jervon, Jervan, Jervon, Jershon. Do they all play football? His brothers, Jervon and Jerquan, played at West Florida.

Okay. And then his brother, Jervon, played at Toledo. And then his brother, Drew Wan, played at Toledo. And then there's Johnny. And then there's Johnny. He is already one of the best players in this draft right now. Definitely the best player at his position. He's fun. Phenomenal.

Finished 2022 with 59 tackles, 5.5 sacks, 19 quarterback hits, and 36 hurries for a 14.6% pass rush win rate. Trevor, I wrote down when they let him, he can really get off the ball at his size. Oh yeah. For a dude that's, I actually liked that he's more compact. He's six one and three eights, 300 pounds. It allows him to play to his strengths. He's built like a cannonball. Another guy that can move all over the defensive line but i thought he was an ideal three tech great vision and awareness against the run he sees and sniffs out everything screens outside runs inside runs grip strength to relocate

blockers is violent true definition of a worker b man active hands active lower half lateral agility when the quarterback scrambles the sideline to run and chase can split garden center double teams with a swim move there is a play against iowa where he's chasing the quarterback from the backside of the sideline and the sprint speed i saw on this guy forget the effort the effort was phenomenal but the speed phenomenal yeah phenomenal effort the sprint speed i saw on this guy i was like whoa he might be a big time tester at his weight when he could do that uh last thing before i hand the baton to you knows how to find wins later in reps batted counter moves, creating traffic in the pocket with pure power. There's really no, I'm kind of in a stalemate. This rep's over. It's always, okay, phase one of the rep maybe didn't go my way. And a lot of times it does go his way in phase one. I like that in phase two, it's what next? Do I look at the quarterback and bat down the pass?

Do I relocate this guy to make the pocket muddy do i um counter with a move because the pass rush is still alive it's just he's a smart player he's a technically sound player he's a good athlete he plays hard he has so much awareness and peripheral vision yes he's a first rounder this is what a first rounder looks like yeah to me there's there's to me there's no doubt about it uh especially as it stands here today. You've got some other people in this interior defensive line class who might have higher ceilings, athletically, size-wise, measurables, but Newton deserves to be in the category as one of the best defensive linemen going into this draft class and into this season, if not people's top interior defensive linemen going into this season.

I love that you mentioned the awareness because the very first thing that popped out to me as I was watching a couple of games of his is hit. I love his eyes, his, he just sees the game so well. And not only does he anticipate and see the game so well, you mentioned the awareness and where's i should always be i love the fact that there were there was a specific play i can't remember which game i watched that was the first but he's one-on-one with the guard and then the center is looking for work and so like he's kind of near where newton Newton is and Newton gets off the snap and he gets

into the, and he gets into the guard and he's, but his eyes the whole time are on the quarterback. His hands are already moving. He is already completely disengaging and getting around the guard. And it's like, he's not even looking at him. You see his head stays straight where his target is, which is the quarterback and the ball the entire time. He was able to get up into, place his hands in the right spot,

disengage what the offensive lineman wanted to do, and get around him, like swim around his shoulder without even looking at the dude. And then the center comes up as well, and he then immediately puts his foot in the ground, goes the complete opposite way, gets across the center's face, all while still just staring at the quarterback.

So he has such a great understanding of not only what he wants to do, but what other offensive linemen want to do that he does not even have to look at them. It's almost like getting loose, disengaging, shooting a gap, getting beyond these guys is just second nature. It's just how fast can I do it? I have written in my notes under one of his strengths, stack and shed for him isn't just a goal it's an expectation every single play yeah that is how consistent we are with this guy the swim move is so quick and so deadly from him i have here that

he's a he's basically the karate kid with how consistently fast the hands are moving at all times he's so precise when he is slicing through zone blocking concepts to get into the backfield to cut off the running back as they're finding the aiming point and trying to find the cutback lane. Speed is just an unmatched, successful part of his game versus the rest of this class, I think. He's a great run defender for his size as well. There are times when the lack of weight shows up a little bit, but I really do think that it's not going to be that big of a deal,

especially with what he brings you. I'll tell people, there are some out there that talk about Michael Hall as one of the best or the best defensive tackle prospect in this class. Newton already does what you want Hall to do. He just does it more consistently, and it's already on tape for him. Yep. The best version to me right now of Michael Hall is what –

Johnny Newton. Johnny Newton's already doing. They play a similar style game, but the quick Twitch, the awareness, I mean, Newton's Newton's awesome, man.

I just, I can't say enough good things about him. I echo a lot of what you said as well. He's both of our top interior defensive linemen for a reason. A lot of people over at PFF agree with that as well. I know Max Chadwick, he loves, he with that as well i know max chadwick he loves he loves newton as well he had the chance to sit down with newton did a fantastic feature piece for anybody who wants to go over to pff.com just type in um john newton's name in the search

bar you'll be able to see that feature article and he talks about a lot of the motivation of what he has for this year and how he knows what's on the line and where he wants to be drafted and the type of draft prospect he wants to be in he knows what is at stake for him this year so i think we're going to see an even better and even more motivated uh johnny newton this year which is pretty incredible given what we saw the previous season so i'm excited to watch him because he's one of those defensive tackle prospects that you go oh man if i need a three tech i can't think of anybody better than what that guy's bringing to the table without a doubt and he's you know you try to stack them he's better than every interior d line in last year's class besides carter

but yeah yeah easily he doesn't have it what do you got oh okay i mean i loved can't see yeah right that's a big that's a big statement but they're so different still can't see so unique i always forget to really even lump him in with everyone i know i think that he's the point is he's right there with can't see and can't see was a first round pick yeah this guy's this guy's a first rounder and he already does all of the mandatory things right that an nfl will want in their D-line. I would agree. He's in a great place.

You want to chop it up about maybe one or two guys that didn't make the cut here? We did get to do a lot of them because we had some different rankings on the back end. We did. Let's recap the top fives because somebody mentioned that in the comments. We didn't do that the last couple of episodes. And we definitely need to be better at that. So my number five was Michael Hall from Ohio State. My number four was Chris Jenkins Jr. from Michigan.

Three was Mason Smith from LSU. Two was Leonard Taylor from Miami. And then one was Johnny Newton from Illinois. So five for me was Rook Arororo, the defensive lineman out of Clemson. Four was Nazir Stackhouse out of Georgia. Three was Leonard Taylor out of Miami. I know you had him at two. Chris Jenkins from Michigan is my number two interior D lineman.

And then, of course, Johnny Newton at number one. He is consensus on stock exchange as ideal one right now. So the guy that I want to give a shout out to he's number seven right now on the interior defensive line for me mckay wingo from lsu so i didn't get to him another lsu guy um he was at missouri i believe yeah he played his first season at missouri before transferring over to lsu last year was his first year at lsu under brian kelly and I thought that this was really interesting Makai is only a junior he only played one year at LSU and he was chosen by Brian Kelly to be one of their three players to represent the school at media days this year at SC media days to me that kind of speaks very loudly of what Brian Kelly thinks of uh of Makai Wingo and there's a

lot to like about him there really is he is twitchy man I mean the finesse points of his game so I guess I should I won't give the entire breakdown of him but six foot one he's shorter. That's only ninth percentile. 295 pounds, so he's just sub 300. That's in the 24th percentile. When you have an under 300 interior defensive lineman, you want to see speed, right? You want to see fast footwork. You want to see the ability to, okay, can I flip the hips once I get to the outside or inside shoulder?

Can I turn the corner a little bit to get to the quarterback? Do I have the fast hands? Do I have the burst off the snap? you want to be able to check all those boxes when you are giving up mass and strength in the middle because you got to be able to stand out wingo does that wingo brings you all of those speed elements of playing the position at a lower weight that you definitely want to see now the reason why he's not somebody who breaks my top five and get a little bit reckless and get a little bit out of a gap at times. Like there are times when he just says like, all right,

I'm across the face and I'm going to get into this gap and I'm gonna get right into the backfield. And there were a handful of times where I watched him do that. And I know the old criticism of PFF, you don't know the play kind of a thing, but from watching the other defensive linemen i'm like okay you weren't supposed to do that and there was a massive rushing lane that then opened up when you got out of your gap that way so i'm assuming you probably freelanced and

tried to get in the backfield and it didn't work so i think there was a little bit too much of that with his tape. I think that the bull rush speed to power is definitely his go-to move. But when that doesn't work, he doesn't have a ton of pass rush counter moves. So he is a prospect where if you were to watch the best of Makai Wingo, you'd go top five in this class, no question about it, top 50 players. But when you watch the games in their entirety, when those initial pass rush moves don't work, he has a difficult time getting off the blocks, getting where you want him to go,

not getting angled or not getting walled off. So it's very much a high-low part of his game, but I'd love to see those highs be a little bit more consistent because man, was he fun, especially when he's able to flip those hips and attack one of the shoulders of defensive linemen. He's got a really good one-two combo on the push-pull. Then when interior offensive linemen get too aggressive to combat it uh he he'll hit him with swim move and i saw that a couple of times too so it's not that he doesn't have a plan he just doesn't do it as often as you would think that he could he's got a nice little one-two combo we need a little bit more than that from him so i liked him a lot he was just a bit of a roller

coaster for me hearing that i mean it makes you realize the kind of talent they have on that front oh lsu is stacked we haven't even gotten to harold perkins i was gonna say it's we're about a week away from that one so i definitely got to get eyes on him i'll give him isn't perkins a true sophomore though oh no he is you're right oh my god oh my god we're about a week and one year away from yeah yeah yeah i meant to say that i always forget that because that's how impressive he is i know he's good he's good i'll give i'll give one shout out to more of a depth guy in this class but i thought he did some really good things and that's uh tavandre sweat on texas sure yeah i watched him six four and an eight 346 a beefy guy kind of thought he was

you know the lesser version of stackhouse i would say he's this big clogger yeah yeah um i wrote he's the size of a small camper i mean sure he's huge, dude. Did you know that he was, so he was a three-star defensive end prospect, okay, coming into Texas. He weighed 260 when he showed up to campus. Well, a couple trips to the cafeteria later. Now he weighs almost 345. Yeah.

Oh, and he looks every bit of it on the field. He might be topping that. Honestly, he's he's tanked up. He's just a massive amount of gap clogging beef. I mean, forces runners a different way can hold double teams. I thought he had a really nice push pull when he when he rushed, but he plays high. There's really no creativity in his game at all. And you know what, though? The students played no creativity in his game at all. And you know what though?

This dude's played 48 games in his career at Texas already. He's an early down run stuff and kind of player with maybe a little bit of, a little bit of flash as a pass rusher, but not much consistency at all as a pass rusher. So he'll be in the all-star circuit. He'll probably be a senior bowl guy and somebody that obviously will be drafted. think in the first five rounds somebody that i did want to shout out before we got out of here a lot of people are going to talk about tyreek williams and and he's the other ohio state defensive tackle really like him yeah and and i can see why there are flashes for him but

it's definitely only flashes right now in my opinion he's kind of like borderline, one of the 10, one of the like top 10 guys. Um, can't remember if I had him like 10 or 11, but a story about him that makes him so interesting and why I I've got to back off on him until I really see more. Not only do I want more snaps from him, not only do I want more of a full-time role, which I think we'll get this year i read that williams weighed 365 when he showed up to ohio state he then dropped 30 pounds and no he he weighs like 295 and i have that from a very good source that he now weighs something around like 295 so this dude has lost 70 pounds in three years since he got on campus i mean you're a totally different player if you're losing gain in 70 pounds either which direction so i know a lot of people like kind of what they saw from them and flashes but i can't even watch williams tape at 320 that we saw as a sophomore and compare it to what he might be at 295 this upcoming year

because i don't know which way you're going to look more comfortable at i don't really know how to project what you're going to be at the NFL level. Are you going to stay at 295? Are you going to stay at 300? Are they going to want you to bulk back up to 320? Are you not going to be as effective? That's a lot of moving parts. Right.

So that's my thoughts of Williams and why Williams just, I did not consider him anywhere near my top five because I just don't know what to think about him. Yeah, that's why they play the games. And that's why this podcast doesn't stop. If he has a great september guess who you're going to hear about on stock watch at the end of september ty like williams there it is folks make sure you tune in smash subscribe subscribe don't go anywhere seriously we would love to hear from you guys as well this is a deep interior defensive line class and it's a lot of notable names a lot

of names that i think that uh plenty of people have kairi is the guilty hand you want to something funny yeah sure when you and i were deciding what to do next week i knew this was going to be a I think that plenty of people have. Kyra is the guilty hand. You want to know something funny? Yeah, sure. When you and I were deciding what to do next week, I knew this was going to be a crazy week. I was moving. Yeah. And it's really madness. And I was we were texting back and forth and we were like,

what should we do as we move to defense? We always start up front at your D line. And I was like, in my head i'm like well let's do interior d-line because i feel like i'll get through that group quicker with less time i have with the move and edge almost feels like wide receivers where it's like yeah you know you're you go from watching like 11 12 guys to maybe upwards of 20 plus and as i got into this group i'm like damn this group's deep yep all the guys to watch like i woke up sunday we record sunday evenings usually this show i woke up sunday and i had a couple cold

ones on saturday shout out to modelo and i i shot out of bed on sunday i was like nope cold brew get it going i need to get tape i need to get tape going for the next seven hours it's it's funny how things work. And you know, it's a good surprise like that. It's good when you're like, you'd rather the class have that than the opposite where man, you and I've had some groups and we're like, we text each other and we're like, bro, it's kind of cheeks. I'm looking for number 11 here. Like, so it's nice when it goes the other way.

We don't even get that far. Like there have been times when over the last two years, when you and I have, I get to like eight players in a class and I go, okay, I'm good. What am I supposed to do? Like, what do you want me to do? I'm good here. No, but this is very different.

And honestly, it feels very different about almost every position in this class. It really does. And I was having this conversation with somebody the other day. I really do believe that this class, this 2024 class, is going to be one of the deepest draft classes all around that we ever scout. Because it's the last year where that COVID year of eligibility allows us to watch sixth-year players who might not be like horrible six-year players. They just didn't get a first-round, second-round grade, so they have a free year to go back

to college football. Now they have NIL, so they're going to do it. Like before, if you had guys who were redshirt seniors, grad seniors, whatever, they were probably barely draft-eligible players. This year, for a lot of different positions you're gonna get grad transfers and redshirt seniors that could be third round picks like could be second round picks and then you throw in okay now you've got regular seniors now you've got the first time draft eligible juniors right so i think this class is gonna be incredibly deep i

think the interior defensive line class versus microcosm of that we mentioned a ton of names uh guys like tyler davis as well from clemson keith randolph from illinois totally kenley jackson from mississippi state like we know that you guys have heard a lot of these big time names we would love to hear from you as well let us know what you thought of our top fives and our analysis on some of these players but we'd love to hear from you as well give Give us your top three. If you got a top three, a top five, a top 10,

whatever it is, the YouTube comments. It is a message board for draft fans. That is what we want it to be. Hit us up. YouTube.com backslash at NFL stock exchange. While you're there, smash like on the video,

smash subscribe on the channel. We would really appreciate it. If you're audio only, you could also hit us up at at tampa bay trey at connor j rogers on well i was gonna say twitter but like is is it is it x now what is going on yeah i don't know i don't know i was searching for something i favorited to read on this and all of a sudden i saw people talking about it being rebranded and i was like this can we not for one day? Yeah. Hit us up on X. Yeah.

X threads. That actually sounds. Pinterest. Stock exchanges on Pinterest. Yeah. Instagram, Twitter, threads, whatever it is. Tampa Bay Trey, Connor J. Rogers. Hit us up there.

Let us know whether or not you thought the Madden Sim was rigged or not. Love to hear from that as well. Yeah. I personally think it was a, you know, it was just, it was a well-officiated good, healthy competition between two great teams. And one team just happened to come out on top. I don't know what to tell you.

That's crazy how that works out year two in a row. Man, poor Justin Jefferson, two catches, 23 yards. Get locked down, baby. baby JC Horn career year coming up he's winning three equal and put the clamps on Justin Jefferson you heard it here first I'm Trevor Sicken but that's Connor Rogers thank you guys so much for listening to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast we'll see you next time Thank you.