NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 20. Stock Up, Stock Down Prospects Post-Combine

Episode Date: March 8, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers unload their notepads to give you their stock up/stock down players from the Combine. The two bring a lot of what they heard in Indianapolis to the table with some info you need to update your rankings. 0:00 - Intro, 2:00 - Kayvon Thibodeaux, 8:15 - Jermaine Johnson II, 13:05 - Kyren Williams, 17:40 - George Karlaftis, 23:50 - Mitch Trubisky, 28:05 - Pierre Strong Jr., 30:35 - Updating on Combine challenge, 35:45 - Devin Lloyd, 38:25 - Kyler Gordon/Derek Stingley Jr., 41:55 - Malik Willis, 44:20 - Safety class

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I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange. On today's show, we are still putting a bow on our trip at the NFL Combine and Indy. Trevor and I are going through our stock up, stock down players, and most importantly, how it impacts this NFL draft.

Which guys are shooting up into the first round, maybe even the top 10. Which guys that have been there all year might be sliding. And it's not just from workouts, it's what we're hearing from teams, execs, you name it. We're all over it. We're excited to get after it today, everybody. I'm Connor Rogers. With me, as always, is my co-host Trevor Sikma. Let's ring the bell.

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange pod. I'm Connor Rogers with me as always is my co-host Trevor Sikma. And Trevor, we got the round two, the two round beast in the books, man. But for the people that are back for some more, we are not done yet. We are going to put a bow on the NFL Combine. Today is stock up, stock down from the NFL Combine. And that can be looked at as a lot of different ways, right, Trevor? It can be the testing. It could be things you hear. It can be a guy that you thought was going in the second round,

and everybody's like, no, you're wrong. He's going in the first round. So it's all the takeaways from the NFL Combine, man. I'm excited for today. Yeah, I am too, dude. And, you know, we talked about this before Combine Week, that it's not just about the athletic testing. Like, it's not just about checking those boxes.

It's not even just about the athletic testing like it's not just about checking those boxes it's not even just about the measurables it's about us finding out what the league really thinks on some of these players because this is the time where you really get to talk to a lot of people within the league so you know when we get to these stock up and stock downs yeah i think we're going to highlight some performances and things that they did this past weekend but especially with the stock down segment it's going to be more of not necessarily we're totally changing what we think of this player in our evals but more of we're updating you guys are trying to update you guys on what the league thinks of some of these players so i think that that's what a lot of this is going to be about but it's gonna be good to get the people some information that we were able to learn in

indianapolis i'm sure we can't share all of it. I know there's some things that I can't share, but I'll try to share as much as possible. Yeah, some of it has to stay in the holster. That's just the rules. It'll slowly be leaked out over time. But Trevor, let's start on a positive note, man. Who are you rolling with out of the gate that you think had a really nice week in Indy? Dude, there's been conflicted reports on this player. So this is why I really wanted to start out with this. Kayvon Thibodeau. Man, I was so impressed with Kayvon Thibodeau.

I really was. And, you know, just like everybody else, I kind of heard the mixed reviews with Kayvon. There are some people within the league that think that Kayvon's a me guy. I'm just going to say it. Going into Indianapolis, you know, obviously you and I have had the conversation before people within the league that think that Kayvon's a me guy I'm just gonna say it going into Indianapolis you know obviously we you and I have had the conversation before on this podcast where he was the consensus number one overall player and then kind of started to see him drop a little bit and now it's kind of like he's almost firmly not in that number one spot anymore he's kind of like

right around four or five in the draft discussed right right right we we talk about him as a potential number one overall pick but he never goes number one overall in mocks anymore so people were like okay well what's the big deal is it the interview he did where he was kind of coming off as like super confident did it run people rub people the wrong way i think he did i'm just gonna be honest man from what I heard in Indianapolis there are actually some people who believe that that interview made him look overly confident or arrogant or cocky or something like that and man I just I don't think that's true I don't think that's true and maybe this is a little bit more of a stock up personally but when Kayvon Thibodeau

talked at the podium he sounded smart he sounded cerebral he sounded like he knew exactly what he needed to do to be successful in the league and look i don't get to talk to cave on tibido every time he goes to these nfl teams i'm sure that every interaction is a little bit different as it is for every player but i've got to go with cave on tibido as a stock up guy because i think all any stock down reason that somebody had on tibido going into the week feels like it's more fragile now than it ever was so this guy still really nice athlete really good tape i think the things that he can do from a pass rush profile are fantastic when he got to the podium he talked about having a pass rush plan and

he compared it to the game of chess and how you set up one move to set up another, you talked about, I'm going to hit you with speed and then I'm going to hit you with different types of power. And then when you react to that, I'm going to give you a different move. And again, he just understands what it takes to be such a good pass rusher in the NFL. And I was super impressed with what I got to hear from cave on Thibodeau. He did not sound arrogant or cocky at all and with that when that's with that being the case you and I had him as edge one tape wise he's still edge one for me I know he's still

edge one for a lot of guys in the NFL in the NFL circles and so I'm thinking that this dude's stock is up from what we kind of quote-unquote didn't know going into combine week. I'm with you, man. I'll piggyback off of the cave on talk. I think that yes, there are people that are legitimately concerned about the personality or taking plays off. I think there's a lot to unpack. I think it's, it's ironic to me how nobody ever talks about cave on Thibodeau playing hurt. Most of the season, we use that a lot for other people but when it's convenient in a sense for a guy that might have a different personality that's never used so I just

find that interesting uh I remember now last year was a unique draft year for us we were not on the road like we are this year we were you know texting and calling and the occasional zoom with your with your scouting sources friends whoever, whoever it may be. That's all good and fun. It's a different world when you're sitting in front of them having a beer or BSing like that. But still, with that being said, last year there was rumblings like this about Micah Parsons, right? Does anybody give a you-know-what today about any of those rumblings on Micah Parsons? He was not only the defensive rookie of the year,

he was in contention for the defensive player of the year. So I think when you unpack these things, you need to be careful because, yes, they can be very real. There can be character concerns of players. Do not ignore that. But with Kayvon Thibodeau, I think one of the better ways I had it put to me was, and this is very important,

he is not a bad guy at all. He is a forward-thinking, smart guy that might think he's even a little ahead of where he is. Some guys might always think they're the smartest guy in the room, and that might not always be the case. And that's not a terrible thing to me that's just somebody that likes to think for themselves likes to be outspoken when you get in a room with a you know like look at the rooms he could walk into with with veteran defenders but that are picking in the top five right like I know this is a biased view but there's a realistic chance he goes to the New York Jets. If he's in a room with Carl Lawson and Quinton Williams, I think he's going to be okay. Maybe that's just me being biased, but I think it's different when you have leaders around

you and there's guys like that on multiple teams he can go to. So I don't know. I don't walk away with the concerns about Kayvon that people have. And I'm glad you made him a stock up. Yeah, man. And you know, like it's funny, right? Because what do NFL teams always say they want in their players? Competitiveness.

They want an alpha. They want somebody who's always going to win. And then sometimes when we get a player who exudes that and we go, okay, no, that's too far. Like, that's a little too far. It's like there's a line. But it seems like the line moves. It's imaginary.

It's different for everyone. The line moves for some people. And so, look, like I said, things are still split on Kayvon Thibodeau. But to your point, he seemed like such a dude who was so motivated, who understood what it takes to be great. He's got the ability to go along with that. And of course, hard work is the main ingredient in everything. You've got to put everything into this to be a really good college football player,

to be a top 10 draft pick, to be an all pro and a good NFL player. But Kayvon seems to understand that. So will he end up doing that? Who knows? But that's the case for every player. And Kayvon seems to be getting, I'll say, unfairly treated, or at least up until the combine he did. And in Indianapolis, I was very impressed with the young man.

I think that he has still the world in front of him because of what I saw this past weekend. Yeah, I'm excited for him. And another guy that I'm excited for, my first stock up here, is Jermaine Johnson, another edge rusher in this group. Stud. It's just kind of on the roller coaster going up the entire draft process at this point and you're and you're wondering or i've been wondering will it ever come down a little bit and it's just not we're at the point where it's just

not i think the the sky is truly the limit for him with the draft at this point where you know juco georgia where there was improvement and then georgia to florida state where there was drastic improvement and it was a podium i couldn't walk away from trevor and i you know with the combine for those listening that haven't gotten to go it's a very fascinating setup number one it's very early in the morning when especially when the process of the week is very long and i'm not talking about for us, who cares about us? I'm talking about the players. They're on podiums, and the guys that are more popular get the big podiums, and the guys that are not get little side podiums.

And obviously, Jermaine got a big podium, but there was bigger players on podiums at the time where he didn't have the biggest group around him, but he had a solid group. And I couldn't walk away. I think there's a difference between cocky and confident, and I think there's also a self-awareness that is so vital. Some guys don't like to explain why they were a one-year wonder or why they broke out late. And Jermaine was honest in a football sense.

He's like, I love rushing off the tackles outside shoulder. That's what I love to do. When I went to Florida State, there was an understanding, a mutual understanding between us, how I was going to be used, the volume I was going to be used at, and that with that promises being made, they were going to get all of me. They were going to get the best version of me. And anyone out there and did that and forget the podium as great as it was the 1-5-5-10 yard split Trevor is rare territory it is the 97 percentile okay let me correct myself 98 percentile yeah don't don't shortchange him don't shortchange him that one percentile he deserves it get off the ball is rare like very rare and he is a violent

player so when you have that get off and that violent approach as a three down player, not as a rusher or a run defender, like let's be real. When we talk about Trayvon Walker, he's a really good run defender right now that's trying to figure out rushing the passer. When you talk about David Ajabo, it's the opposite. When you watch Jermaine Johnson,

it's all there right now. He's probably going in the top 10. I love the person. I love the player. And I honestly think quietly he can very well be the defensive rookie of the year. That's how ready he is to go. Man, I'm glad that you highlighted him there because he, along with a handful of players we've mentioned on this podcast here has had an unbelievable month

and when i watched jermaine johnson tape you know when we talked about the edge rush rankings in this class i liked jermaine johnson but i really did i thought he was kind of more of a run defender than a pass rusher and a lot of his best tape is in run defense and being very stout and having his hand in the dirt being that five tech kind of base defensive end really holding the line of scrimmage there would be flashes of him as a pass rusher of florida state but they didn't happen all the time it's not like it was a weekly occurrence that he was putting one or two or three of these flashes out there and so because the flashes of pass rush seemed to be few and far between, I said to myself, maybe it doesn't like quite have it. But the thing is, Connor, something that I didn't take

into the equation and something that I could see in hindsight now is those pass rush flashes were good. They were really good. And I didn't put enough weight into that just because I didn't see it as consistently as I wanted to didn't mean they were as they weren't as nice as they were I mean like you said exploding off the ball with that 10 yard split attacking the outside shoulder using those violent quick hands using a push pull using a club rip doing different kinds of move to get away and when he was able to put that on display pin his ears back as coaches say he was dominant man he really was even in those couple of instances we go to the senior bowl they tell him hey you're just pass rushing in this drill jermaine johnson went okay great and he dominated everybody that he went up against when it came to the one-on-ones then you go here

to the combine he tests fantastic he's got a great podium session. All of that to me, I agree, spells out a top 10 pick. And I think that he's going to, you know, top 15, I think is the floor for him. I think that that's the lock for Jermaine Johnson. I really do think that he's going to be in that range, top 10, top 15, or something like that. So I agree with you, man.

Stock up, certainly from when we started this podcast. I liked him. Now I love him as a player. Stock up, certainly from when we started this podcast. I liked him. Now I love him as a player. All right, man, this is where it gets not. We'll ping pong this. This is where it gets maybe not as fun, but it's very vital. I mean, Trevor and I, when we started this show,

not only did we want to have fun, we wanted to do the draft, but we also wanted transparency and honesty in the process of like, this is real. This is real time scouting sometimes. Where are you looking for your first stock down and why? Unfortunately, this is our boy, Connor, and he might be a little bit more your boy than me,

but Kyron Williams, the running back out of no game. Yeah, there's no doubt. He ends up running a official 4-6-5-40. Oh, man. Yeah, Jordan Davis kyron williams not that different kyron kind of shows up and at his podium i actually really loved his podium you know he was somebody who again was very confident uh you know a question was asked of him hey like what do you what do you say to people who give you that three or that third down back tag where you're just a third round back or third down

back you're a pass catcher you're a pass protector but they don't see as a full-time workhorse and he said you know what i don't like hearing that he's like not that i don't have the ability to do those things but he's like i want to be known as a running back who can give you value on first second and third down and i agree that that that is that's still there with Kyron Williams because the tape still exists. But him running a, I think it was a 4'7 flat unofficial 40-yard dash, and I think he got bumped up to a 4'6.5. It just doesn't show you too much of breakaway speed. Now, I do think the 40 is a little bit overvalued for running backs. You're almost never in a situation where you're taking off

and you're hitting a home run but it does matter because the nfl game is only going to get faster and if i already kind of had speed concerns with kyan williams in his college tape what we saw this past weekend with his athletic profile and his athletic score does not give me a ton of faith that he'll be able to win athletically in the league I think he's a good player I think he's patient I think he's got quick feet his running style is extremely determined all of those attributes just as important as speed for an NFL for an NFL back I mentioned the soft hands you won't find a better pass protector in this class of the running back position you simply will not but it's a little bit of stock down for Kyron Williams simply because he wants

to be known as a, as a full-time workhorse, a guy who could do things for you on early downs. I think some people did as well. I believe he was your RB one. I haven't, I had him at RB one going into the season this past summer. RB two. Yep. But what But yeah, so it just, that is now even a little bit more of an uphill climb than it was previously, because I think all of us were maybe hoping that he was going to show up

and run something close to a four or five flat. And that just didn't happen. And it kind of, like I said, nothing really changed with Kyron Williams, but I think it's a stock down because a lot of people were hoping, maybe having some faith that there was a little bit more than what we saw on film and athletically at least.

And that's just not there. So Kyron Williams kind of is what he is. I think you're going to see him drop a little bit in some rankings because that hopefulness is no longer there. Like I said, it may be a stock down more towards what was always reality, but this is still a really damn good football player and somebody that i would love to have on my football team you're just probably drafting him at a little bit of a different spot than you might have

thought a month ago you're absolutely right i mean listen like after breese hall i thought he was you know breese was a little bit more traits based as great as his college film was but i thought kyron was a better pass protector. I don't think Kyron Williams is going to sit there as my RB2 anymore. Now, is he going to fall out of the top five? Like, that's just not going to happen. I don't react that way to the combine. But I think it hurts that he's just not an athlete at a skill position.

And why that hurts so much is you could still evaluate Kyron Williams, you know, the same way in terms of what he's going to be. But he's also a guy that you think you can get now later. And I'm not talking about him himself. I'm talking about like that player. That player exists later on because you're not separating yourself athletically, but you do everything the right way. It's a weird fine balance. It's really disappointing. There's no doubt about that. He's a top five running back in this class. He's one of the rare guys that can play all three downs, but it hurts. There's just

no way around it. And I'll move things to somebody that I'm disappointed in, not from testing numbers, but from the fact of what he didn't do. And that's George Karloftis. And George Karloftis has become a tough player to talk about because I think he has people that are huge fans and they don't like the criticism. Then he has on the other spectrum, people that aren't fans. I think you and I have been transparent when we did our Edge episode. We are very in the middle on George Karloftis. We do not see a player even close to Thibodeau, Hutchinson, you know, for me, Jermaine Johnson. But you also see a high floor run defender that can give you some power, effort, pass rush production. I really cared about his combine because I wanted to know what that three

cone would look like. I want to know what that change of direction is. I want to know what that 10-yard would be from the 40. And it's cool that he benched. It's cool that he had a 38-inch vertical. But you didn't do the 40, and you didn't do the three-cone. And to me, I think there's a reason. I do. I'm being honest. And maybe that's an assumption, and maybe that's wrong,

and I'm sure he'll do it at the pro day. But I think there's a reason. And then on top of that, you know buzz that is interview you know when you sit down with a pass rusher okay you you want like the ultimate alpha dog in the trenches like the I am going to whoop your offensive line and then I'm going to kill your quarterback and I think people when they sat down with KT for even the questions they had about him didn't worry about that with Hutch Jermaine Ajabo like you don't worry about that what Karloftis I think it was just kind of like a shrug your shoulders interview not it's not a bad guy he's not a bad

person he's not like there's no bad character but it's you just want this like this kill switch and I think it's on the field at times no doubt doubt about that. But I think there also was times where he disappeared on tape. So I think for Carl Loftus, the reason he's stuck down for me is I don't think he's worth a top 10 pick. I don't think he's worth a top 12 pick because I know the Vikings have been a hot spot at 12. I think the ceiling might not be worthy of a top 15 pick. I think he's a back end of round one guy,

you know, like we saw with Rousseau last year, where it's like, okay, he's going to be a long-term starter, and we just think that double-digit sack kind of player might not be there. And that's more opinion from me. But it's tough when you read about a guy in the top 12 of mock drafts for a year and then the one question you had really with that three cone and that 40 to for him to take the next steps he passed on it

he gets to ryan kerrigan comp a lot and um i i can't't remember Ryan Kerrigan's mock draftable, so I'm looking it up right now. Yeah, pull it up. Okay, Ryan Kerrigan, 6'4", 267 pounds. Okay, that's somewhat similar to Karloftis. 40-yard dash. Kerrigan had a 4'6", 7". Vertical jump, he had 33.5", so Karloftis got him there.

Broad jump, 122. He also didn't do the three count, I don't believe, at the combine. So he is Ryan Kerrigan. Yeah, but Kerrigan's career is nuts, right? Because Ben Solek and I had this joke where, I mean, I guess it's not entirely a joke, that Ryan Kerrigan's got the quietest Hall of Fame career ever because it was just like double-digit sack season one after the other.

And I do think that that's probably the ceiling for what we see of Karloff. I would agree with you that he is on the stock down part of this show. But, yeah, I heard that teams didn't love the interview process, but I always feel weird commenting on that because obviously I wasn't in. Yeah, like I wasn't there. So I'm not going to sit here and be like, he bombed his interview i wasn't in the room no this is just kind of for me he might not be going as early as you think that's how i translate it that is the stocked down portion of it because i've done mock drafts where me personally i've put

george karloff is in the top 10 i've put him in a variety of different spots i've had him to the atlanta falcons i've had him to the new york giants like i've had him to a variety of different spots. I've had him to the Atlanta Falcons. I've had him to the New York Giants. Like I've had him to a lot of these teams that are picking in the top 10, but I don't think that's the case anymore. And I think that it's less of what Karloftis did this past weekend and more of us catching up to what it seems like the league believes in Karloftis, which is more of a backend of the first round player. So yeah, I don't necessarily think that, you know, I would have loved to see him test, but like you said, I'm sure there's a reason. I'm sure he was trying to put his best foot forward. A lot of these guys are now.

There are a lot of prospects who are not shy. They don't shy away from not doing drills that they don't think they're going to be good at and just waiting to do it at pro day. And basically, we're seeing as the years go on, players be more and more comfortable with saying, yeah, judge the tape don't care just go to the tape doesn't matter i'm not going to test poorly in an area where uh i think it's going to kill me there's no reason to just go trust the tape if you will and now carl office has actually asked us that that very question he was i can't remember if it

was uh pass rushing or something or whatever he's like oh what do you have to say about you know answering these questions he just looked the guy dead in the eye and he goes, go watch the tape. And that's it. And I'm like, all right, that's pretty cool. So I think that that's kind of where we are with Karloftis. I just think it's more of us catching up to what the league believes on him. And he's a player that you could probably get more around picks 15 to 25, then you would have to spend a top 10 pick on him. So that's where I am on it. And that's kind of the overall thesis of my point, right? I think it's like, and I'm glad you clarified the interview situation

because yeah, you don't want to be there. Everybody has different interpretations of people and how they interview and how they interact. But I think when there is a building consensus amongst a couple of different teams you talk to that are in the range to draft the player, you don't necessarily use it as like, oh, this guy like is a bad person or oh this guy's like a dud it's like more of a oh that team is probably not going to take him and my job while is you know very heavily our jobs are scouting evaluating but our jobs are also storytelling

and our jobs are also painting the picture of what the NFL draft is going to look like. And we're never going to shy away from that. And I think that's just the reality, but on a happier note, Trevor, who's your second stock up? Okay. This one's a fun one. And I sent you my stock up notes before the show. And this one is one that I have added since I sent it to you. Stock up, Mitch Trubisky. Dude, I went into Indianapolis Combine week not thinking that I was going to hear the name Mitch Trubisky nearly as much as I did.

And I think that I heard scouts, I heard media members, I heard rumblings from teams. Everybody was talking about Mitch Trubisky at the beginning of the week. And I think that that kind of sums up what a lot of teams might think about this quarterback class right like if a guy like trubisky is getting this much buzz and trubisky obviously a former number two overall pick in the 2017 nfl draft he was 2017 or 2018 2018 had to be 2018 right 17 was it 17 god i'm homes and w in Watson. Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right.

All right. So sorry. I didn't even mean to say it like that. No number, number, number two, a former number two overall pick starts for the Chicago bears for four years. He's got McNaghy there. He plays really well. His sophomore year, the bears are really great. His sophomore season in the league. And then the last two seasons, I mean, he just kind of crumbled as the rest of that bears regime crumbled so he ends up leaving Chicago he's no longer in Chicago he went to Buffalo and he's been with the Bills he was with the Bills this past season and if you say well I

didn't really see him play much because he didn't play much he attempted eight passes this past season it was obviously all Josh Allen so Trubisky didn't really see the field but of course we know that the greatest ally of highly drafted quarterbacks who flamed out in one location is time, because as time goes by, we start to only think of the positive things that we saw from this person. And look, Sean, both Sean McDermott and Brandon being the head coach and the general manager from the Buffalo Bills said nothing but positive things about Mr. Trubisky. They raved about him, truly about how he handled the situation,

how he came to work at Buffalo, how he didn't talk about like, woe is me. You know that he didn't, he didn't, they even said like he wasn't blaming people in Chicago. It's not like he was talking shit about the people who were in Chicago who kind of failed them, which is kind of true, honestly, for however talented you want to believe Trubisky is. And of course, those two guys have something on the line making Mitch Trubisky sound good

because they get an extra comp pick if he leaves in free agency and he signs a big deal. But all that to say, there was a lot of talk about Mitch Trubisky potentially being on an NFL team in a capacity that allows him to get a starting gig next year. Washington, Carolina, like, I don't know,

just a lot of these places where he might come in and compete for perhaps even win a starting job and i think he's probably going to get somewhere between 10 to 12 million dollars in either a one or a two-year deal to kind of have this prove it situation with the team and uh stock up mitch trubisky because i didn't think that i was going to hear his name at all going into Indianapolis week, and he was a lot more of a topic than I believed him to be. I think there's a side to this that really benefits teams that don't like the quarterback class

but need to be active in the quarterback market that have the job security to kick the can down the road, and I'm looking at the New York Giants, right? And they're one of a few, but the Giants come to mind because Daniel Jones wasn't this regime's pick. And I think ownership likes Daniel Jones as a person and probably still as a player where they want to give him a better chance.

But I think they also know that, one, if he gets hurt again, it cannot be a Mike Lennon. Two, if it doesn't work out for him early on, there needs to be somebody in the building that they could actually turn to see now you're building all this positive goodwill and hype about Trubisky's revival arc that it's an easy sell throughout the entire offseason and then if things really all went poorly with Trubisky and Jones and I'm using the Giants as an example because it's a

very you know easy one to envision, that's a new regime that's trying to get things right. And then they're in on the 2023 quarterback class as well. So that's an easy road for a team like that. Instead of getting in the door and being like, we got to take a quarterback now we need our guy. Once again, this class isn't very good. So I think it's actually the wise decision. So I think that's why you're getting some of that Trubisky build up right now. And good for him, good for his market, market good for his agent and i do hope he can turn it around although you know obviously there it's you'd be an outlier if that was the case all right stock up for me uh pierre strong and i know last week i said that be careful how you value the 40

for running backs but more for me it was the guys that run, you know, late four fives, four sixes that you had as top guys, rather than the ones that light up the track. Pierre Strong is a unique case, right? You're coming from South Dakota State. So you're already, you already have something to prove. If you're an FCS back, you need to have dominant tape, dominant tape. He has that, right? But then you also need to either hang with the big dogs athletically or surpass them because you're already you know you're already punching you're below in your weight class you're already trying to catch up he goes 437 in the 40 and a 36 inch vertical i think for pierre strong huge he's in the running back class now, right? He was always like the fun sixth or seventh round guy. And now it's like, no, I'm one of the guys. My vision and

speed translates to so many of these schemes that are so popular now with, you know, obviously the Shanahan tree for a long time, but he can fit a lot of schemes in the NFL right now, whether it's, you know, a backup in Minnesota, Cleveland, the Jets, Niners, Rams, Packers, on and on. So I think he's really found himself in the mix. He reminds me of Joseph Adai. There's a little bit of a throwback name for you, Trevor. Nice.

I think they have the same body type and that same burst at that body type. And I think that for Strong, this was a big-time combine for him, for a player that, of course, really needs it when you're coming from that level of competition. And it's just awesome to watch his process from Shrine to Combine to definitely hearing his name called on draft day. No, I love it, man. Pierre Strong, one of the fastest running backs in this class on tape.

He definitely showed it this past weekend. Really nice athletic profile. I like how you set it up there. When you come from a small school, you got to have dominant tape because you're going up against less athletic defenders. And you better stand out. You've got to get noticed. You cannot have average tape as a small school guy

and think that you're going to make it when you jump up that level in competition. I thought that Pierre Strong is a really great example of that, was able to showcase that. He's got a ton of production, almost had four straight 1,000-yard seasons with seasons with Jack rabbits. And so he's been productive. Now he's got the athletic scores. I think he's going to be really nice back in the NFL. So I am glad that you highlighted him before I get to my next guy. I got to tell everybody about our friends over at all 22. They are unveiling the newest fantasy football game that hundreds of PFF employees have been playing. All 22 uses PFF grades as one of its main components to test your ability to build a full 53 man roster offensive line included.

So think about it. It's like a fantasy football style where you're going like my roster versus your roster every single week, but it's based off of actual performance, not necessarily stats. If you've ever dreamt of sitting in an NFL front office, if you enjoy the scouting process, you're going to want to check out all 22, join the wait list. Now all dash 22.com with nothing more than your email. And if you join before the NFL draft, you receive a special promo code for your all 22 subscription waitlist users will even gain

access to premium content like the inaugural draft guide in season strategies, feature release announcements, and so much more. Be sure to follow All22 at All22 underscore PFF on Twitter. It's less fantasy and more football. Connor, before we get back to the stock up, stock down, I do feel like we need to update the people on our combine draft from the episode that we did last Thursday. We do indeed, and that is because yours truly came out on top, baby.

Let's go. 15-9. 15-9 was the final score. Thank you to half my team that didn't do anything in the combine draft. I really appreciate the effort, guys. No, I mean, let's do a quick, I know we're're gonna go rapid fire at the end for some of our stock here but basically trevor's big time winners alec pierce uh the best

vertical of wide receivers yep caitlin caitlin barnes the biggest slam dunk of the entire draft uh i had the aiden hutchinson three cone and the breeze hall vertical they were top guys but trevor took home the volume you had a lot of guys that just got it done. There's no way around it. This is an L. Dude, I almost hit you with a clean sweep on the linebacker group. I beat you at 40-yard dash with Channing Tiddler and Braden Smith. I got vertical.

Leo, number one pick overall for me, didn't do what he was drafted to do. This is the bus draft i took like literally 10 jakai polites with my first 12 picks i just linderbaum didn't do anything i should have known he i forgot he was hurt the very the very first day that basically everyone in a position group bailed at the bench. I was like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. And nobody did.

Nobody did the three cone either. Wide receivers didn't even do the three. The running backs as a whole did not do the three cone. They all opted out as a group in solidarity. It was almost impressive. They rose up against the system. Yeah. We're good.

We don't need to do this. They formed a union right on the field. They unionized the the system. Yeah. They're like, nah, we're good. We don't need to do this. They formed a union right on the field. They unionized. The three-cone unionized. Unbelievable. I can't even hate. Your linebacker sweep is just beautiful. Channing Tindall, Brandon Smith, and Chad Mumma all had really nice combines.

And, yeah, I just didn't. What can I say dude i think i feel the most proud about getting the one point at safety for colby harville yes this was a this is a big point okay like i couldn't afford to give up points at this point and colby harville peel goes yeah i'll bench no one else here's benching all you had to do was what like one rep and you know you you're gonna do it so i'll do it. And you know, you will see you're going to do it. So I'll do it. Yeah. Oh, my God. Good Lord.

All right. So just I just want to do, you know, I just wanted to. No, we can't do something like that and not update the people. It was true chaos. Well, Ben, when Ben and I did, when Ben Solak and I did Lockdown NFL Draft, we were awful at actually doing things like this and then actually recapping it and then never yeah never updating it so smart we're uh so we're so we're we're starting off on a new leaf here and maybe it's because i won maybe that's the reason why i wanted to bring it up so much but uh if people liked it let us know because we're thinking about

doing one for the draft yes yes no i i would love to do some sort of superlative kind of draft for the actual nfl draft i know i saw a couple of people say hey it was a little confusing with you guys bouncing around positions and we'll tailor it yeah maybe we'll structure it a little bit better but if you love the draft idea let us know i saw some of those comments already but if you guys say that you love it we'll be glad to do it again uh do the itunes review as well we see that all the time. If you want to do suggestions, here's a wild idea. Maybe for the draft one, we do that show live and we curate the top vote for each section from the

comments. So it's Trevor Connor, the stockies, the stock exchange fans. So we let the, the fans in on the competition as well. Okay. So like, so like they're voting for an answer at the same time we are?

They are. Yeah, they're picking as well. I actually. As a collective unit. I actually like this a lot. That'd be a good way to get them in. We can workshop this. I think that we can workshop this.

We need the two months to figure it out. We do, we do. But we'll get it done. All right. We'll go somewhat rapid fire in our last couple of guys. I'll bundle my last two stock downs. Okay. Go ahead.

Okay. So my stock down, dude, the last guy that I want to talk about is Devin Lloyd. And Devin Lloyd's another player who, kind of like George Karloff this, had this top 10 allurement to him that he might be able to go top 10 I don't really see that anymore with with Devin Lloyd and again it's the same thing it is with Karloff this is the same thing that it is with Kyron Williams the tape did not get worse the tape did not magically get worse this past weekend but you kind of wanted Devin Lloyd to test a little bit better athletically in the 40- yard dash I mean he did have good explosive scores the 35 inch vert the 126 inch broad jump don't want to slouch on

that at all whatsoever put up 25 in the bench press bench press so we know he's a strong dude but it's a little bit of a stock down because in order to be a top 10 off ball linebacker to me you've got to be super special as an athlete so i still think devin lloyd is a good football player i still think he is going to be a good pro i've always thought this but the transcendency of him being a top 10 consideration i was always a little bit hesitant on and after seeing him in indianapolis i checked my scouting box of saying this is a good player you can draft devin lloyd anywhere in i would say the back half of the first round anywhere from 15 to 32 and you are going to get a damn good football player i'm just probably picking other guys over devin lloyd when it comes

to the top 15 and that's all that's all it is so it's it's a stock down in consideration for those people out there who thought that devon lloyd was going to be a top 10 pick i don't think he's going to be a top 10 pick i think he's going to be more of a back end of the first round probably middle of the first round if we're being fair but i'm not sure how the nfl views the linebacker class overall I just didn't hear wow you got to go up and get one of these linebackers you got to go get up and get one of these guys early so it's a little stocked down for me yeah I think with that Lloyd plays fast but what that tells you is Lloyd sees it right and I think we'll have this conversation with Kyle

Hamilton they're seeing it so well that they're getting to the spot because of their instincts rather than that 40 time. And the perfect linebackers have both. Right. And it's OK. I love Devin Lloyd. But it's just, you know, when you look at the reality of it, he's not going to be that that unicorn is like a top 10 overall pick because of, you know, he's an average athlete with awesome instincts. And I love the player. But you're right. With guys like that, you expect them. You have such high expectations, it's very hard for them to meet. And this is kind of where I'm going. My two stock downs, final stock downs, are bundled together. Two corners, Kyler Gordon and Derek Stingley.

One obviously worked out. One did not. I actually will start with their measurements being my biggest stock down. Kyler Gordon came in under six foot. That surprised me. 31 inch arms. That surprised me. 194 is fine. Stingley, exactly six feet tall. 190. You know, he's been hurt, so it's hard to carry a lot of weight anyway. I'm not going to kill him for that. The 30 and 5 8th arms, honestly, Trevor, shocked me for a guy with great ball skills i think that that is uh i believe that's around like 20 percentile arms you're talking about a premium shutdown corner

and i don't think it impacts his game but it just surprised me a little bit but the reason the stock down is stingley he couldn't work out it's now we're waiting a long time for this guy to be that football player again and team the reason he's a stock down his teams are concerned he is not a top 10 pick anymore and when you look at gordon i heard a couple mixed things i actually heard that he was not feeling very well at the combine and like that is very real but he obviously was not going to just opt out for no reason so i'm not feeling well then everybody would kind of pile on he ran a four or five two which is not slow but kyler gordon is a four four level. So combining the measurements with that 40 time when you're expecting greatness, I'm very curious to see if he can make up for it at his pro day. I think he will

do everything at his pro day to make up for it. So Kyler Gordon had a chance to go round one. I think he's a firm round two kind of player right now, while Stingley has just lost that top 10 status. And it's tough to see. And hopefully he turns into the great player we all expected him to once be. But it's been a long road this last year and a half. I think in the most cliche, cliche, cringe way possible, Derek Stingley plays bigger than what he is, both in the arm length and the overall height.

So the tape of him being able to play bigger is there. He's got that kind of a style, but his measurables are still his measurables. And the thing for me is- When he needs to play, that's the issue. The foot injury, that's the biggest issue for me. You are still not able to do the combine and you were only able to play three games this past season

because you had a Liz Frank injury during the summer and then you waited and you kind of got surgery on it after you realized that it wasn't going to heal on its own sometimes those injuries just don't heal fully sometimes those are things that really stick with you and so that's it that is definitely a worry for me Kyler Gordon I thought he was more explosive on tape than he was like super fast so the 40 I guess it kind of surprised me because I thought that kind of like Garrett Wilson right where of like Garrett Wilson, right? Where you watch Garrett Wilson's tape and you go, okay, the explosiveness, the shiftiness is obviously there with him,

but where is the long speed there? Garrett Wilson checked that long speed box. It was like, okay, I guess that he's got the speed to match the explosive in this short area track. And right. And, and then it just wasn't the case with Kyler Gordon. And I'm curious to see, you know, if he's able to really improve his time when he goes to Washington, if he looks a little bit different when he's running. And so we'll get to see then again, the 40 look,

these guys have years and years and years and snaps and snaps and snaps of tape that they put out there. I'm not going to sit here and judge these guys getting in a track stance for two reps of a 40-yard dash and make me think that it means that they're for sure slow sometimes the number is so bad that you think okay maybe they are that slow but for kyler i'm still optimistic that that athleticism that we were able to see on tape was still there i want to give two uh parting i guess uh stock up and a stock down and this is actually probably bad on us. We're bad podcasters here, but one of my, one of my stock ups is Malik Willis. And I'm going to

highlight Malik Willis. And a lot of people have highlighted Malik Willis, but yeah, I heard from a couple of different people that number two overall is, is not like out of the question. Now this happens every year. So I'm going to pump the, I'm going to tell people to maybe pump the brakes a little bit. We do this every single year. We pump up players. We go, oh yeah, this guy's going here. Remember like Mac Jones was apparently going number three overall. Now that was on the table for them, but it didn't end up happening. And then what ended up happening? He went 15. I mean, that's a massive difference there of where he's going. So we do this every year around this time of year. And over the next month, especially as free agency comes out,

where we talk about teams really being interested in a player here. But this weekend was the first weekend, whether it's complete smokescreen or not, that I heard that Malik Willis is, it's not a 0% chance that he could go to overall to the Lions. So that was probably what we should have led the show with. Anybody who listened to the full podcast. I'm like perplexed right now.

They're getting a nugget here, but that is something that I heard in Indianapolis. So I assume that, look, even if – with Malik Willis' name in that kind of a conversation, I guess the stock has to be up and i did i love this podium i love this podium session i thought he was very genuine he's very real about himself about where he's coming from how much he has to grow he's not sitting up there thinking yeah i'm gonna like be the best starting quarterback in the nfl whenever a team chooses to

start me you know he's like look i got a lot of work to do i got some some technique that i'm working on some things that i've been able to get better over the last couple of months, last year. He's played in the NFL. It's going to be a different level. I'm going to be able to adjust to the speed. But he had a confidence about him within that honesty. And so I think he's a stock up anyways.

I think that he was always probably going as QB1 in this draft. I think this past week confirmed that for me. And yeah, I did hear the whispers of two overall. So I did hear that. as qb1 in this draft i think this past week confirmed that for me and yeah i did uh i did hear the whispers of two overall so i i did hear that i like that we're kind of using nuggets as like easter eggs in our show now we're not like opening the show and be like really cool this is going number two overall we're like no you got to stay for the whole thing and you'll get the good stuff um man that would set the draft on fire all right i will close out my stock up here with this is a funny one in a weird way i almost i wrote it as the non-kyle hamilton safety class and this isn't a diss or a slight of kyle hamilton it's just that

kyle hamilton for all like the unicorn talk and all the hype and everything it's almost buried a very talented tier two of safeties that i am a huge fan of like i'll say this it's the question of use a top 10 pick on kyle hamilton or take one of these guys at the top around two uh is an easier answer for me than i'm i'm you know you'd be surprised by and those guys are lewis three, seven, 40, 36 and a half vertical one 33 broad. He jumped like a mile. He jumped the whole field. And the tape is explosive, explosive.

Obviously Dax Hill, that six, five, seven, three cone Trevor, that change of direction for a guy that lives in the slot. I love it at six foot at six feet tall, 191 pounds,

long arms, man. That's a very interchangeable piece. And even Jaquan Brisker, I know he ran the sub 4-5-40. I like the way he carries his weight. He could be a bit of a bruiser coming downhill when he needs to. He's responsible in coverage. So, Seen, Hill, Brisker, they deserve more love. It's as simple as that. And they are top 40 picks. Just because Kyle Hamilton gets all the headlines as a top 10 guy, that's all well and great. These three are NFL starters from day one and very worthy of top 40 selections.

And it's happening. Love it. Love it. I agree. The safety class is awesome. I was at Jaquan Bursker's podium, and I was talking about the strength and conditioning program at Penn State with them because they've had some absolute nuts athletes come around over the last

couple of years. And I said like, Hey, like, do you have any, do you have any quite crazy weightlifting stories? And he said, well,

right now I have the record for bench for a DB. He said, I did three. He said it three 55, six times. That's 200. It's up 200. And he's been,

he's been banged up. i think i think his workout would have been even better if he hadn't been battling injuries during this offseason he obviously didn't get to go to the senior bowl because of that so a lot of credit to him for working out i think he that's really impressive man fun show no that was great uh little rapid fire uh george pickens i thought is a stock up he had a great combine. Jordan Davis, you know, showing up at a lower weight, performing extremely well. I thought he had a great combine as well. Damian Pierce, impressed as he always does,

whether it was the bench press. Were you there for that? I can't remember whether you were there for Damian Pierce. I heard it going on, I think. So I was sitting there watching it, and he's repping him out. Damian Pierce is repping him out. He gets to his 21st rep, and he is struggling a little bit like this is this is the last rep that he's gonna do but he's he's right there it's not like the guy has to take it from him and the spotter

puts his hands down to go take it and you can hear damien pierce yell because the spotter's got a mic on for everybody to hear him uh in in the arena and you can hear damian pierce tell him don't take that bitch don't take that bitch because he he wanted to finish the rep so it counted and he did he got that 21st rep and then obviously uh he re-reacted after that and the whole stadium was laughing and cheering for him and everything so great personality that dude's a stock up any other rapid fire dudes before we get out of here uh travis jones and nevante wyatt jordan davis's combine was so good. We missed like two historic D-line combines for them.

That was awesome. But yeah, man, that was it for me. It was a pretty impressive showing from a large majority of this group. No, it was fun. It was great. It was good to unload a lot of these combine takes, some of the things that we've been hearing behind the scenes from Indianapolis to you guys on this episode.

I'm sure that from now until draft weekend, we're going to be doing the same thing you're going to be hearing little combine nuggets that we've heard uh and we'll kind of be spreading those things out throughout the show we're going to have some sort of ranking format episode for you on thursday haven't decided which position we're going to do so i guess you guys will just have to tune in then thanks for listening to the nfl stock exchange we'll see you guys will just have to tune in then. Thanks for listening to the NFL Stock Exchange. We'll see you next time.