NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 213. Fixing The Carolina Panthers

Episode Date: November 30, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers take a deep dive into the state of the Carolina Panthers now that they have fired head coach Frank Reich. The two break down Reich's (very short) tenure, what went wrong, was the process bad? Plus look at potential head coach candidates, take a peek at their salary cap for 2024 with options there, and end with a 5-round Panthers mock draft

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, we are fixing the Carolina Panthers.

Frank Reich now no longer their head coach. We're gonna tell you exactly how they got here, his entire tenure, what worked, and more importantly, what didn't, how we got to this point. We're gonna look at potential head coaching candidates for this team, the salary cap situation going into next year, and then we will end things off with a five-round Carolina Panthers mock draft.

I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. welcome to the opening bell of the nfl stock exchange podcast i'm trevor sikama that is connor rogers joining you on a very special episode where we are kicking off our fixture franchise series with the carolina panthers and if it sounds like there's an echo in here, it's because this is the team that kicked off the fixture franchise series last year, almost a year, a little over a year to date. I went back and I looked to see,

you know what, what team do we start with? What did we do? The Carolina Panthers? Oh yeah. They were the first team that we did for this series. And people who have been listening to this podcast know that we generally will do a fixture franchise for teams once they fire their head coach,

because then you get to get into the potential head coach options and what direction they're going to go and all that kinds of good stuff that we're going to do here on this show. But it's got to start with a major change. Normally when head coach gets fired, Matt rule got fired early last year, Frank Wright gets fired pretty early this year, Connor,

how you doing? And how does it feel to once again be in the seat to try to fix the Carolina Panthers? It's good, man. This is a fun series. I like that everybody's been asking for it. Raiders fans, stay patient. I know Raiders fans feel like they got cut in line,

but they've had some juice with Antonio Pierce, so you kind of want to let something settle out a little bit. The Panthers, I mean, full transparency, they've had zero juice all season. And it's negative. This is a negative juice. And this is a disappointing one because this is a team that I think we applauded them being aggressive to go up and get their quarterback. And I liked the Frank Reich hiring and it felt like they were doing some good things. And it's really bottomed out this year.

A lot has gone wrong for them, injuries included. So this is an exciting series for us where we get to put our team builder hats on. And I think it's also, even if you're not a fan of the Panthers, but I can't stress enough during these episodes, you will now go into the draft knowing so much about the offseason teams. And I know the Panthers don't have their first overall pick to the Bears, but they're picking at 33. That matters a lot.

How they're spending money, who they're hiring. They have a man in David Tepper that has billions and billions of dollars and can throw that money around to hire a head coach with a lot of power. So these are great previews, not just for the team, but for the draft and the league and the offseason as a whole. Yeah. So we hope these episodes do. We take a really deep dive into the situation of one team, but in doing so, we're going to tell you how they got here. We're going to tell you about the head coach that was there and now isn't. We'll talk to you about the general manager

in the front office. We'll talk to you about the owner. We'll talk about the reasons why it didn't work overall, but then we're going to get pretty deep into where this roster is, a free agency outlook. So we'll talk about a lot of potential free agents. Of course, we will have a lot of guys that we will bring to the table for the coaching carousel. And if you're a fan of a team that's looking for a new head coach,

you're going to learn a lot of information there as well before we get to your episode of Fix Your Franchise. And then as we do with all of these series, we will end this episode with a mini team-specific mock draft. So for the Panthers, they don't have a first round pick. So we're going to extend it. Normally we do a three round mock for teams. We're going to go to five

because that'll give us four picks to work with for Carolina. But that's kind of what this has shaped up to be, and hopefully everybody can learn something from it and really enjoy these deep dives. Connor, where do you want to start, man? Obviously, the news breaks of Reich. I think that we can give the entire background. I don't know if you want me to give a little bit of a background before you get to some opinion of kind of what happened,

but let me know. How do you want to start this thing? Right. I think we start with the background and talk about who ultimately could be leading this team or should be leading this team. Because I think when you go in the order of the offseason, that's where it starts, right? We know how fast the coaching cycle moves. We've already heard from David Te tepper who briefly spoke to the media i think it's stunning that 10 games in right 11 games in frank reich's tenure in carolina is already over it leaves so many questions for bryce young so no matter where we go right now trevor it all starts with the hiring of the coaching staff which it looked like they had a promising one that they got last year it didn't work out that matters so so much because we know David Tepper's not going anywhere.

We know Bryce Young's not going anywhere. Who is going to be guiding these guys to hopefully future success is where it all starts. Yeah, and, you know, let's just break it down. I guess let's just jump into it, how we got here and what the situation is with Reichich and where caroline is at this point so frank reich's tenure with the carolina panthers you know he was a longtime offense coordinator he was the chargers before it was the eagles and of course he had that that head coaching stint five seasons with the indianapolis colts that

didn't end the way they wanted obviously and it was kind of going downhill and that's why you move on from them carolina jumps on it and i think that that Carolina felt like they I don't know if hit the hit the gold mine is I don't know if it was exactly that but they found a guy who has been around the NFL for a long long time Frank Reich has been a coach in this league and around this league as an offensive coordinator and as a head coach for a while now. He was coming off what was obviously a disappointing stint with the Indianapolis Colts, but remember where Carolina was a year ago. They're moving on from Matt Rule, who they gave a massive, fully guaranteed seven-year contract to that they fired him. It was just two and what,

two and a third games into that seven-year contract. And I think they were really gun-shy about that, right? And I think that that was kind of something that really spooked them because Matt Rule certainly sold them on, I'm a program builder, right? He rebuilt Temple. He rebuilt Baylor. Like this is, he was a culture builder and Carolina? He rebuilt Temple. He rebuilt Baylor. He was a culture builder. And Carolina was in desperate need to turn that around. And I think that they really believed that they hit it big with Matt Rule. And when it fell flat on their face, they were probably looking at the situation thinking, we have to get an NFL guy, right?

We hired in Matt Rule. We hired a guy who was clearly a college coach, a college CEO, but the pros is a different level, and it clearly just did not work out for him there. With Wright, he had so much familiarity with the league, I think that they thought they hit it big. They nailed it. They got a guy in the building who had all of that NFL experience. He was an offensive mind.

They knew that they were about to go and be aggressive for a quarterback. They didn't know where it was going to be. We'll get into this in trading up for two versus trading up for number one. We'll get to that in a second. I think they believe that this guy was really the perfect fit for where they wanted to go. They didn't give him the seven-year contract,

which, thankfully, because that one was just overblown. The stats, as he is now fired, one in 10 in the NFL this year, Owen six on the road, the first head coach, actually, I read this, but the first head coach since 1970 to be fired in back-to-back seasons as a head coach, because he was obviously fired with the Colts last year, fired from the Panthers this year. He lasted eight games, which, Connor, that was less than Urban Meyer got. Yeah, that's what's wild.

Urban Meyer got 13. Right. Nathaniel Hackett got 15. Right. When you stack it up like that, and we'll get to, hey, things weren't great for Reich even if this is an early timeline, but damn, man, he didn't even get what urban meyer got and that was a circus that was an absolute dumpster fire that is the stat

that stands out to me of kind of how we got here now that it's done now that he's gone that's what's crazy is just there's part of me because i guess i should have opened up asking you really just what you thought of this but it feels like the universal opinion, the consensus opinion, is that this staff did a terrible job, right? And then here's the thing. I like Reich. Maybe Reich is just a guy that at this stage is really meant to be at most an offensive coordinator, but ideally a quarterback coach. Honestly, Reich almost feels like at this stage of his career, the perfect assistant head coach

that works hand-in-hand with the quarterbacks. That's probably what, like, if you were drawing the perfect role for him, where he's not calling plays anymore, but he has a super high title because he earns that respect, and it's going to take a lot to bring him somewhere. But you also get the incredible luxury of him working hand in hand with quarterbacks.

Now there's so many, God, there's so many places to go here, Trevor one. And I, I guest hosted brother from another on Peacock this week. And we had Sheena quick on who does a great job covering the Panthers. And the first thing I asked her was like is anybody asking about Scott Fitterer in all of this yeah right

and she right away she's like we all wanted to like we couldn't even get there that's how quick Tepper was so I think before we move on with the whole who's next to coach we almost have to stop ourselves and be like is there now an alignment issue in Carolina? And when I say alignment issue, what I mean by that is it's off balance of GM and coaching staffs, right? Yeah, I didn't come in with this GM or I didn't come in with this coach. And I'm not Scott Federer, like think whatever you want of him, right? That's another podcast for another day.

Although we'll touch a little bit on the moves he's made, obviously, on this one when we talk internal roster decisions. But I think there's almost an argument to be had that it doesn't make any sense to keep this front office right now because you have a chance to align everybody new. Like Tepper and Bryce aren't going anywhere but you can wipe the slight clean here Trevor and start new in both those spots yeah and and it always I agree with you completely it gets really tricky when the head coach is already established and you're hiring a general manager right because even though you all work together even though it's supposed to be cohesive they are still supposed to be your boss, right? The general manager has the ability, has the title to fire a head coach.

And sometimes it's the other way around, right? Like, you know, Bill Belichick is somebody who has enough power, who, you know, he hasn't had a GM. So he would have that power. John Gruden had that, right, when he was with the Raiders, and you could feel that. But normally the way that these things work is the general manager is the boss of the head coach. And to me, Tepper has an opportunity to, like you said, hit the reset button, wipe the slate clean, if you will. And if this front office was really nailing it, I think that you could maybe make an argument to say, no, no, no, no.

Because if Fitterer stays, then that's the right order anyways, right? The general manager is already established, and then the general manager helps the process of getting that person in. So I could understand that. But if you are in any way, shape, or form going into next season with Scott Fitterer, quote, unquote, on the hot seat, move on from him now. Start over. Don't do that. Don't do this. Don't do that.

There is no reason to do that. And this is a quote that I continue to think about as I thought about the fiction year franchise. Jeremy Foley, he was a longtime athletic director at the University of Florida. Obviously, I know of him well, being a Gator grad myself. But he had a quote when it came to changing head coaches, making changes. Oh, is it too early? Is the time right? All this. His quote was, what should be done eventually must be done immediately and I think that that is a little bit of a defense for what we are seeing in Carolina right now and that would be the case with Scott Fitterer and I think it was also the case with Frank Reich if we want to move on to that because you mentioned he I like the higher two I really did but we're 11 games into this thing and it's so crazy to think that 11 games is enough time to evaluate a guy. But holy cow, it just seemed like things were not only not going in the right direction, like actively getting worse. You hired this guy to be

a quarterback guru, an offensive guru, a guy who has been around the NFL so long. And so play calling, decision-making, timeout usage, how you are getting the most out of your young rookie quarterback. Those are the reasons why you were hired. And it felt like every single one of those areas was not only subpar, but like way worse than it should have been. They were, he was almost making it more difficult than it needed to be. And with that, I bring up the Jeremy Foley quote of if you, if this guy is not going in the right direction, don't let him be Bryce's coach any longer.

Don't let him be the coach of this team any longer, move on from them. And so that's where I initially, I initially started on the side of what are you like? What is Tepper doing? Like, this is so emotional. This is a reckless decision 11

games in you're out of your mind if you're firing this guy and the more you look into it the more you said the more I certainly said look I think it's just kind of a sign of how ugly things are in Carolina right now but that doesn't mean you hold on to a mistake if you think it's a mistake. So that's where I am. That would be my opinion of it. Exactly. And there's so many almost political things to go down the rabbit hole now on with the Reich and the pick and who made the pick. Because you could ask yourself, did Tepper force the hand of this pick?

And then the staff tried to make it work and it didn't work with Bryce. So then you might have a, some ill will from the staff. And then every like there's so right. There's just as so much unknown here. That's ugly. So I will, I will say this. I have a really good friend in this business mike k people listening to this this podcast probably know him he covers the carolina panthers i mean he's covered the jags he's covered the eagles covered a lot of stuff mike's very plugged in he's a really great beer reporter

really great journalist and i reached out to him and i was like hey do you think that it's real that reich wanted stroud and after they picked b Bryce, he has just been so stubborn about it and almost like wanted it to fail. Because that's what it seems like some people are saying out there, right? Like you just said. Yeah, it's a dangerous conclusion to draw, but it does cross your mind.

And he said from the people that he has talked to within the organization, like he's got all sorts of different sources all up and down the ladder. It was unanimous at the time they wanted Bryce Young and so that's something that I I certainly trust Mike and and and who he has talked to because he's a great journalist and so you know is that truth ever gonna entirely come to light they're certainly saying it at the press conferences but we know

a lot of people say things at press conferences that they don't mean, but I will kind of give it to the benefit of the doubt. Certainly the person that I was asking, knowing that there's a lot of integrity in his job that kind of gets to that point. Mike is one of the best in the business. And he was kind of like, hey, you know, I have asked that question myself. And every time I asked that question of somebody who might have a little bit of a different insight on it, it feels like it really was unanimous. Now, maybe it was a situation where you like all three guys, you like Stroud and Young. Maybe they all love both of these guys, but eventually it came down to that. So when you go to Tepper's quote after the after Reich was fired and he reiterated once again, they had a deal in place to get to number two.

They had a deal for Stroud get to number two. They had a deal in place for Stroud. And they were comfortable with both. Yes. And then all of a sudden it became available for them to get up to number one to go get Bryce. And I think that's where the disconnect of the game of telephone gets a little bit warped. That's fair. Because when I talked with Mike, Mike even said, you know, before the combine, everything that we kind of heard the whispers out of Carolina was Stroud, Stroud, Stroud, Stroud,

Stroud. And then they make the deal to go to number one. And all of a sudden it's Bryce Young. So I think I do believe maybe this is naive, but I'm trying to follow some, some good logic here and some, some good sources. I think think it was i think they were very comfortable reich was very comfortable that staff was very comfortable taking stroud at two believing that bryce was not an option and then once bryce became an option then he was there so obviously wanted to relay that to the people because the whole reason i reached out to mike about it was to say that here on this show is we're kind of fixing this team here. So that's kind of what I had learned after reaching out to Mike about it.

So with that being said, it's probably a good time to clarify too. I know you and I both had him as QB one. Like I still believe in Bryce young and think that this, when you, so because of this exercise, I really started watching that looking for the answer. What's going wrong with the Panthers?

Because it feels like it's a little bit of everything. We know that much. But I even asked myself, Trevor, you know, what's going on with players like Iki Ikuonu, who took a step backward and the receivers and and they have a lot of work to do to even give Bryce a chance right now. And I think the question now will lie with the coaching staff as we do revisit that and then carry on through all the offseason objectives. I mean, is there an identity they look for? We know owners always tend to get away from what just failed them, right? I always

think of it like you go from a player's coach to a kind of a field general right drill sergeant is what i before and right let's look at tepper right now tepper gave the bag to a program builder in matt rule right and matt rule does a lot of really good things it didn't work out at the nfl level but you talk to everybody that's worked with him at the college level it just it just didn't work the transition and it's it's a shame. And I think Rule, also defense coordinator Phil Snow, they wanted to build a physical football team. So now you have Fitter trying to tailor the roster one way. Rule gets fired, you hire Reich, and it feels like the roster was trying to be tailored a different way. And Reich was supposed to be the quarterback whisperer for someone that they sunk a ton of

assets into to get the number one overall pick in bryce young now i mean it almost feels like because i know a lot of panthers fans are probably thinking ben johnson ben johnson ben johnson or i get like the innovative offensive mind. I'm not saying that's off the table and we know they've gone down that road from conversation standpoint last year. Right. But you almost wonder, is this just a franchise that things are in such a bad state of affairs right now that they need the safest thing?

And I guess you could have said Reich was a safe thing and look how that went. But like you and I always kind of, we kind of always talk about Dan Quinn in these scenarios. Like Quinn is a guy that does a lot of things really well and guys buy into, and he knows how to identify defensive talent. And we've seen him hire

really successful offensive staffs before. He had a great one in Atlanta that got them all the way to the Super Bowl. What are you thinking in terms of, is there a clear picture of where they go? Or since they've failed in multiple avenues, we don't even know. Yeah. So I, I do kind of lean younger because, you know, here's some, here's some stats that I looked up from the Panthers this year under Reich that I think really ate Tepper alive. And we'll get to the most important ones at the end. But okay, so this is an offensive head coach.

And like you mentioned, somebody who's supposed to be really great at working with young quarterbacks. You got a guy who was one of the best players in college football over the last couple of years. The size and the physical profiles, they absolutely kind of go into how good he was going to be early on. I understand that. But right now, Panthers are 29th in the NFL in NFL touchdown drive percentage. Okay. They've only scored 14 offensive touchdowns this year. Only the Jets are worse.

Sorry, Gunnar. Their offensive line. Shocker. Their offensive line. We got that one for a million dollars on who wants to be a millionaire. Their offensive line has took a major step back which marcus whitman who is that franchise guy on youtube uh he had responded to one of my tweets on on um x and i agree with him he's like there's got to be something with frank

reich somebody's got to look into this because the offensive lines kind of started to regress in indianapolis with generally the same players and now he left and they're pretty dang good again. And then you have Carolina's situation where they shouldn't be this bad. 187 pressures allowed this season. That's the fourth most. And then this is a killer too. 46 plays, gaining 15 yards or more, worse than the NFL. So this is not an explosive offense at all whatsoever.

We'll get into the personnel in a second. But these two stats, Connor, are I think the ones that put Tepper over the edge at this point in time. This team is 30th in the NFL in play action, total play action snaps. They are 28th in the NFL in total pre-snap motion plays. That's not where the game is going. Right. Right. And I think that Tepper has had to watch a lot of really great, innovative, young or old offensive coordinators get little things like that

involved in the offense that can really help things out. And I don't believe that they would have just fired Frank Reich without bringing this to his attention. I think they did. And I think that he was still, for whatever reason, not down to do it. And so I think that is the major player here of why you move on when you do. And I think it's going to be a major player in who they end up hiring and i because of that there's three new wave guys right now that i think they're going to be very interested in ben johnson is the obvious one the offensive coordinator for the

detroit lions only one team can get him by the way this is true this is true we're gonna use his name in so many different podcasts if he's ready he passed on jobs last year hey i don't know though you know cloning has taken the next step this is fair we might have three ben johnson's calling boys you could have multiple ben johnson ben john size in the nfl you know we could have you know, Ben Johnson, Ben Johnson Super Bowl at some point. You know, don't put it past Sives. It really makes you think. So, okay, Ben Johnson is one of them,

obviously the offensive coordinator for the Lions. He is, right now, the Lions offense, 14th in play action rate, 14th in motion rate, 5th in EPA per play, total EPA per play. You mentioned interviewed for Carolina last year. The timing's

a little interesting with him because he interviewed carolina and then took his name out of the hat and he went back to detroit did he kind of sniff what was going on in carolina yeah so that one might be out the window who knows the other one bobby slovit the offense coordinator for the houston texans yeah he's going to be a, you know, what do we say? Just a shooting star. Yeah. We're like, whoa. Right.

Yeah. He is, he has a Houston offense, 18th in play action rate, 10th in motion rate, 7th in EPA per play. So all of those probably in the areas that they want to hit. And then the other one is Kellen Moore. Kellen Moore, successful play caller, successful offensive coordinator with Dallas Cowboys. Didn't really get the interest that he probably wanted as a head coach. Makes a lateral move over to the Los Angeles Chargers. Staley is in trouble, but I think that Staley is in trouble because of

his game management, his timeout usage, his field goal decisions. And then of course the defense, the defense is not what it needs to be. On the offensive side of things, charges offense, fifth in play action, sixth in motion rate, and tenth in the NFL and EPA per play. So to me, I think it's going to be an offensive mind because it's all about Bryce Young. The whole thing is about Bryce Young. And those are the three head coaches for those reasons that I look to to think,

okay, they're probably going to target those guys as potential head coaches for those reasons. You know, what's so interesting about Ben Johnson, just kind of clapping his hands and be like, no, thanks. Is that,

cause I didn't know this until it's like, okay, it's time to really learn all about Ben Johnson. Cause he's probably at least in the public side, the number one head johnson because he's probably at least in the public side the number one head coaching candidate in this cycle at least in the public side he's the first name that people talk about for sure i mean he was a walk-on quarterback for unc graduated from unc he's from south carolina like i'm not saying the dude like you just assume the dude's dying to go home why did he say no last year is that i had no idea he's at least from the general area like the carolinas it's isn't

that really interesting man i'd like to have an off the record conversation with him be like yo why did you not take the carolina job i mean, you and I are going to corner him at the Senior Bowl or the Combine. Like, we got to talk to you and we come in peace. No, we're going to come out of the shadows. We're going to have our top hats on. I hold them. And you're like, listen. Yeah, yeah.

You pin them up against the wall. I'm going to walk out of the shadows. Flick the cigarette. You know, flick the cigarette. Exhale the smoke no of course we're not doing that but that's i mean i didn't know it's actually bothering me we gotta know you know the comments this is the youtube comments will be filled with you know this is what i think or i heard or conspiracy theory i want to hear them

i want to hear them and here's the the thing that i want to make clear on this fixture franchise more than any other one and the raiders will be a very interesting contrast this is an owner that just cash comes out of his ears like i know and teppers learn the hard way the nfl is not a league that you can come in and be like i'm rich i'm gonna you know buy a stable organization and wins it's a lot more difficult than that in a salary cap league but if it's a tie and i think the area where this team is probably a pretty nice area to move to you would think this guy i mean you know pretty well trevor like it's like can't confirm yeah it's beautiful um you would think that tepper like has the extra push of hey i'll pay you this and more

or 33 more than what they're offering you like that there's something to that well i i went back and listened to most of our podcasts last year about the fixture franchise for the Panthers. And you brought up a really good point about kind of this same thing, about where Tepper comes from, the type of person he is. He's a hedge fund billionaire, bailed out the bankster in the crash. I mean, that's how he got to be a billionaire. And so he's just this big risk taker and these things pay off for him. And he's got the, what is it? The bronze balls in the office or like whatever it is, right? And they just talk about kind of like who he is as an owner.

And when you and I were going back and forth, just me, I was still just questioning about how crazy it was that you give Matt Rule a seven year, whatever it was, $60 million contract. And you brought up a great point. Rule was scheduled to interview with the giants after that, you know, he had been with the giants. He talked to you. He was kind of that hometown dude for the giants. He was their go-to and rule probably looked at him last year, had him in the building and said, what is your price to not get on the plane to New York? And he probably did that as like a, you know, big time owner, big shot owner, money doesn't matter.

We're going to win no matter what. And we mentioned in the pod, you love that as an owner because you love when an owner is not in the way of your success because of their wallet. But it's certainly come to burn him over the last couple of coaching hires for that mentality as well. Yeah, 100%. You can get used.

There's a lot of – you can get – you can overplay your hand. No matter how much money you have in this world, and I obviously do a Mets podcast as well, and i've done this podcast um since before steve cohen bought the team so i'm very familiar of a billionaire hedge fund guy coming in and flexing the financial muscle but also because of that learning the failures that you can come across in sports by doing that. And it's, yeah, it's a really big learning process for Tepper. And I think he has good intentions for the Panthers, of course,

but he's also a guy that feels a little overwhelmed at the moment right now. And, yeah. I was just going to say, you can't buy a winner in the NFL. Money matters for sure, but you can't just buy a winner in this league. And I think he's realizing that the only other two dudes that I had on my potential head coaching candidacy, cause I would love to hear if you had anybody else that you wanted to shout out, um, is just if, if he goes like the vet way, meaning either Bill Belichick, right. the vet way, meaning either Bill Belichick, right?

You have to bring it up or this one's a little different, but Harbaugh, right? Like those, to me, those are the two. If they're not going to go with one of these young hotshots, then the only two vets that really makes sense.

Cause I don't even think Dan Quinn, I agree that he would make sense for this team. I don't think they're going to consider him like I think they're either going to make a big time splash with Harbaugh who's been to a Super Bowl before now he's you know been a national championship type of coach at Michigan or obviously Bill Belichick who's one of if not the greatest NFL head coach of all time what it to me it's it to me it's either those two dudes or nobody else from the veteran coaching market I agree I my gut tells me he wants to find the next McVay right like that's my gut he wants to find and if he identifies Ben Johnson as that and he's actually interested this time then they go that route if he identifies Ben Johnson as that, and he's actually interested this time,

then they go that route. If he thinks slow, it is that right. I think my gut tells me that's the route that they go to. You brought, you nailed the open with the stats and being a modernized offense. Because I think I always talk about this on this show. I pressers are generally 98% useless,

but if you can find one quote match of body language, then it's worth it. And I think him claiming responsibility for Bryce maybe gave away a little bit that it's, if he's saying that publicly and feeling that internally that weight that bryce needs to be successful for tepper's ownership to start to be successful then you're gonna hire who you think is going to bring out the absolute best in bryce i mean we kind of saw in a very different way but the dolphins went through this right like two it was thrown aside publicly in the view and they found Mike I should have probably said find the next Mike McDaniel

because the Sean McVay example almost seems outdated at this point I mean dude won a Super Bowl so it's nothing no slight against Sean McVay but it looked like everything was wrong with the Dolphins especially with the quarterback that they drafted and then now you have Mike McDaniel and it feels like all that's washed away so that I I'm with you Harbaugh there's so much there I mean Belichick doesn't make sense to me for this franchise because I think Bill is obsessed with the idea rightfully so of winning without Tom where wherever Bill the problem is in this I guess I'm getting off topic, but it doesn't matter for the Panthers conversation. Like this might sound insane, but how many spots are really there for Bill Belichick?

He's under contract. So the cost of getting him is keep in mind, folks, like you might be talking to first rounders for Bill Belichick. Yeah, he makes a ton of money. It's not reported, but he makes a ton of money it's not reported but he makes a ton of money every year I mean I don't this doesn't feel like the right fit for where the Panthers are for either side I don't know if it costs two firsts at this point because of how bad they've been over the last couple of years but it's still Bill Belichick so I coaching value chart like it doesn't exist you just you don't really know what somebody's worth

especially um an unprecedented winner in belichick so yeah that i don't know i want to be clear i wouldn't get bill belichick or jim harbaugh maybe it would not for this team i'd pick someone else i really would um i don't know if belichick would want bryce anyways um so i would go with one of the younger examples that i gave like at this point i feel like tepper would go after lincoln riley before he'd go after you know like some of these other like veteran dude and i know that that's kind of, all right, now we're getting into Matt Rule territory. But I think Tepper wants to put up points. I think he's watched his Carolina team play with really bad stopgap quarterbacks. Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Buccaneer legend, all due respect.

Those were their three quarterbacks before it was Bryce so I think Tepper is sick of it I think Tepper wants to light up the scoreboard I think he wants to pay the electric bill out the ass to just have as many points as possible for that scoreboard to light up as bright as possible and so to me I think that's why one of those younger hot shot um offense coordinators makes more sense and then yeah if you're going for almost like a big splash somewhere else i i'd put linda riley above that for um above the other guys that i named just because i think that that's where tepper's coming from but um any other stats or coaches or anything before we move on to some off-season salary cap situation

mini mock draft all that yeah let's jump into that for sure i think it's time to talk about the actual state of the roster well before we get to that what it's more time to talk about is securing your family's financial future with our friends over at fabric by gerber life this time of year it's all about getting that list together. And the most important thing on that list should always be your family's financial future. Fabric by Gerber Life makes it quick, easy, and affordable to protect your family so you can get back to enjoying life.

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Price is subject to underwriting and health questions. All right. Now that we have our picture of the direction of where this team needs to go, what we think the next steps need to be, general manager, head coach. We didn't give general manager candidates because, you know, Fitter is still there. But Brad Spielberger has a great article over at PFF.com highlighting some potential new GM candidates. You guys can go read over there to pair kind of what you're hearing here on this podcast it's kind of when you look at this roster let's talk about it where do you see the strengths the weaknesses the salary cap situation are they flexible who's in who's out what do you think about this roster right now here for carolina so i tried to mark spots that i consider at least

locked and that's always a dangerous game when you're hiring a new coaching staff potentially a new front office because sometimes a lot of things could be up in the air. But to me, Trevor, and this is a quick exercise, it feels like we know Bryce Young is going to be the starting quarterback next year. I feel like both the tackles are locked in and Taylor Moten and Icky Aquanu. And I know Icky has had a rough sophomore year in pass pro. He's still grading out really highly as a run blocker. I know it has not been pretty in pass pro. it's one of those things where like the stink of the room has just rubbed off on everyone because i watched a lot of icky last year and he had a tough debut against miles garrett and then he just right who whom among us right right imagine being welcome

to the nfl by miles garrett i was like wow that's tough he's just he's doing he's doing the between the legs thing right in front of you it's your first game and it's the uh the what is it the ron burgundy or the the will ferrell like i'm so scared right now you shut up yes he just dribbles the ball off your face basically at that point and i think that then he gradually just got better throughout the season you look at his rookie sample size and like, damn, that was a pretty good year for Ricky Aquanoo. And this year step back. And I think a lot of it's the offensive identity.

Part of it's him. You have to wonder like, well, if they draft a tackle or sign a tackle, do they move him inside where maybe some of his problems would be limited and his strengths would be amplified. But Aquanoo and Moten are going to be on this line and the center, Bradley Bozeman, who signed a three-year extension before this year. So two tackles in the center and Bryce Young. I think on offense, everything else is pretty open after that.

I understand Adam Thielen's had a good season. Mingo has not had a good rookie year. They have a lot of work to do in terms of getting pass-catching help. The running back room leaves a lot to be desired between Miles Sanders and Chuba Hubbard. And then on defense, I mean, honestly, we're going to talk about the three guys that they're going to need to pay in a second. And Burns, Brown and Lou Vu. But after that, it's like J.C. Horn, right?

Because you could even question, is it is, you know, Jeremy Chin going to be a trade candidate, a guy that it feels like a little bit without a place with this staff this year? Or does the new staff come in and like his versatility? I don't think they can trade him. Right. Because he's a or are you saying like a sign and trade? Because I think he's a isn't he a. Oh, he'll be a he'll be a free agent as well. Yeah, I think so. I was fast. I believe so. It wouldn't surprise me if it's already been the four years i thought i don't know why i thought he had one more left yeah he is a free agent yep i thought he was a free agent because that was the it's it's it's chin it's luvu and it's um brian burns are the big three

yeah and you'd like to get a deal done with brown i think in advance don't make the same mistake with him that you've made with burns but do you agree with those like was there somebody else in this roster that you're like no like he's he's actually like a cornerstone or god it's weird word to even use with them with how bad things have been no i really and horn's been hurt which sucks because when he plays he's good but he's just bad bad luck as in his young career yeah i mean i think that offensively you can basically look at everyone other than the tackles and Bryce young. I don't, not that everybody's getting good.

Not that you're wiping the slate clean of all these guys, but everybody else has basically just been playing at a completely replaceable level. Like Bozeman's been bad as well. The tackles haven't been good. Running backs have been fine, but you can't do anything behind this, this offensive line defense.

Yeah. I mean, I, there, there are pieces that I like on this defense, but you can't do anything behind this offensive line. Defense, yeah. I mean, there are pieces that I like on this defense, but essentially it's just the young studs. And again, I think everybody else is pretty much movable. You've still got players who are Matt Rule-drafted players who are kind of like tweeners now like where exactly are you going to play them moving forward i think whoever's going to take over at head coach that's going to matter a lot for them but burns luvu what's what's thompson's contract because he's on ir and he's getting up there in age but he can't be that where can't be that crazy, right?

I don't know. I'll check it. Because he's so you could throw Shaq Thompson in there if you wanted to. But then, yeah, it's basically just Eric Brown. And you're probably going to keep Shaq for the last year of his deal. It makes sense, too. And then he has three void years. So he'll play out that deal in my opinion

yeah but and then you know eater gross matos has been disappointing i think you let him walk and you won't really you know you won't really miss it cj henderson you know trading his second rounder for him not good dj johnson their rookie has been disappointing marquise haynes is kind of a specialized pass rusher so is mari barno but those are kind of like those are players that you draft when you already have pieces in place to go like okay we're gonna put you in a specialized situation you're gonna take us over the top and it feels like now they have to ask more of those players and that's not really their role so no i don't see i don't see a lot of cornerstones on this team but even with that being the case you've got enough young players on your defense to basically say wide receiver and interior offensive line like you're just going heavy

at those two areas i think those have to be the number one areas you were attacking in both free agency and in the draft exactly and when you look at you know maybe some hope for chandler zavala but his problem in college was injuries and he's on ir so not a deal it's just not it's tough now the good thing is even without a first round pick can you can you address interior offensive line and wide receiver absolutely it's one of the places that look at this nfl season i mean p Puka Nakua, Rasheed Rice, Jaden Reed. Like I can keep going for hours. There's a lot of wide receivers outside round one that help out.

And the same could be said for guards like Steve Avila on the Rams on a, so that's a glass half full approaches that some of their big needs, they could still find a way to get things going in this off season without that top pick. I agree. When I was, we're going to, we're going to do a new mock draft with the two of us together,

but I was looking over some mock draft scenarios before we started this podcast. And normally when I've done regular mock drafts, like all 32 teams, when I get to Carolina at the beginning of the second round, I almost always give them a wide receiver because the need is just so desperate. Every single Sunday,

you see the lack of separation, the lack of go-to player, the lack of alpha on that team. I always have given them a wide receiver because the need is just so desperate every single Sunday. You see the lack of separation, the lack of go-to player, the lack of alpha on that team. I always have given them a wide receiver, but as I kind of did these exercises and we'll see how it plays out as we go through the mock draft simulator, I actually like the idea of them hitting offensive line in the early parts of the second round and then getting receiver maybe once or twice a little bit later as you get into a five-round mock draft. But yeah, I mean, when you're looking at this team and their salary cap situation, they're projected to have, well, actually, I don't know if it's full projections, but right now they're slated to have $39.3 million in cap space for 2024

if they weren't to make any other moves. That would be the 13th most in the NFL. So good amount of flexibility, but a big chunk of that gets signed up for in a second. We'll get to that. Average age of the player. Connor, I was very surprised to see this. The average age of the players under contract for Carolina, 27.3, which is actually the fourth oldest in the NFL. I would not have thought that that would have been the case. Their secondary has some weird older players yeah probably yeah probably skewing that a little bit um the core of the roster is obviously a lot younger guys but

yeah i was kind of i was just very i was surprised to see that one while i throw something crazy at you always yes all right so this can apply to really any team but this is the easy example or i guess i'll start it very open would you trade one of burns or brown for a t higgins kind of player not t necessarily but some kind of wide receiver for bryce and you're gonna take you're gonna take a huge chunk out of the defense but but you're like, man, we got to get it right with our kid under center and our new offensive coach.

I think I would. Um, Hmm. Probably. Uh, so contract obviously goes a long way into this, right? Cause I'm thinking about T Higgins contract and what he's going to get paid. It's pretty similar to what you're going to tag Brian Burns for, right? That's exactly where my head is at. And I, you know, Brown's not going to make quite that much.

No, certainly. But see, I don't think Burns, the Bengals have two pass rushers under contract. So that's why I'm saying like Teagans is an example of the player, but I'm keeping this open to a lot of teams. Yeah. So like Jalen Waddle, like, would you do it for Waddle? You know, like, not that that's a scenario. Once again, you know, you're throwing, you're still throwing out. Yeah. You're still, Waddle has been banged up this year.

I'm not saying they're looking to trade them, but that's what you're looking for. You're just saying like that type of a player yes because you're yes you can get a good reliable wide receiver outside around one but like i'm talking about like a difference maker i know and you're talking about an established nfl guy exactly the answer would still be no for me because to find a difference making edge rusher like Brian Burns is, and to see where Derek Brown has been ascending to as of late. Um, I think those are, it's harder to find impact players at those positions than it is wide

receiver. And you could get really good wide receivers on rookie deals. You just mentioned, you know, Puka Nakua, Rasheed Rice, like what we're seeing from those guys so it is it is an interesting thing that you that i'm kind of toying with in my head but i think my answer would still be no especially since to get an established wide receiver like that they're probably commanding a lot of money because the wide receiver price tag has gone up so much over the last couple of years so and it's not as easy as like oh just go sign mike evans because someone like that is going to have a ton of interest like what is well you just go play for a contender if he even leaves the bucks uh like chris godwin is probably the best example of what

you're talking about here right that's a perfect one because he's tough year for him he's 27 the bucks need a pass rusher do you swap brian burns for chris godwin that was a that's a perfect one i don't i don't i don't think i do that i don't think either team does no i don't think it i don't think i do that but it's interesting i like that you threw that out there it's interesting do you last one because i could do this all day captain america it's truly sickening stuff do you package someone say you really like wait i wouldn't wave the white flag on icky that's just dumb no package someone i don't know or a do you package a 2025 second round pick with pick 33 to go up in round one to get a Keon Coleman Roma Dunze? Are you speaking my language now?

I think that's my favorite option if you really need a wide receiver. I like that option better. Dude, there's not a lot of avenues for this team this spring this winter those guys are gonna go early too like i think keon and rome both go in the top 14 of the draft i think i think marvin harrison jr malik neighbors romo dunze and keon coleman ah coleman i'm actually the the the coolest the coldest lukewarm yeah I would uh I would have more reservations about Coleman going in the top 20 than the other three guys but I think the other three guys are going top 20 for sure I think there's a realistic scenario where they all go

top 12 yeah me too but Coleman's the one where it's like, okay, big contested catch dude. I think he's going to test well, but also just doesn't separate well how high is a team going to draft that guy. I still think it's probably in the top 25, but that's one where if Coleman falls and you love him, which for Carolina,

that's actually kind of funny because nobody can separate on a team right now. And Coleman does struggle with that a little bit. Yeah, you need more of a wide receiver like DJ Moore. They need, I mean, if they have the opportunity, let's, you know what? We're going to, I'm going to fire up Tankathon. You made me do it. You made me do it.

Now I'm opening up Tankathon. He's doing it to him okay let's say let's say malik neighbors is somehow on the board still and the rams are picking at 14. that i think is the player that you go up for that makes a difference for your roster right now. That's an elite separator and elite route runner type of guy. He wins with that sort of route running and separation. And that is something that just Carolina does not have right now. So like even Rome, I like Rome a lot,

but Malik neighbors is my number one player. Obviously other than Marvin Harrison jr. You're not going to get high enough to pick him. Neighbors to me is that dude where if he starts falling a little bit, that's the wide receiver that I'd go, okay, now let's talk. Let's get on the phone. Let's see what other teams would want. Is it a third?

Is it a second? We go up and get this dude, and he could be immediately wide receiver one for us. Yep. Anyway, so kind of getting back to wrapping up the salary cap situation, because I do want to get into a mock draft. We'll play with that scenario and so much more. There's not a lot of free agents that I think they're going to be able to go for because you've got 39 mil to work with. Like effective, like counting all the.

They're not going to let Brian Burns walk. Can't. They're not going to do it. So at the very least, they're not gonna let brian burns walk can't they're not gonna do it so at the very least they're gonna tag brian burns if you tag brian burns is about 23 24 million that's gonna be on the cap right away so you'll have 15 16 left and then you got luvu you got jeremy chin you obviously have a lot of other guys on your roster that you just have to fill out because it's not like you could just let let everybody walk you have to get someone back for them there's somebody who has to play on the team so i don't know if they really have a ton of cap space to

work with interior offensive line player that it would be a major difference maker connor williams probably from how he is playing this year but the miami dolphins but they're not probably not going to let him go wide receivers i mean you're not talking about the top tier guys you're not probably not gonna let him go wide receivers i mean you're not talking about the top tier guys you're not talking about guys like t higgins you're mike evans you know you're talking about guys like maybe darnell mooney if you can get him cheap enough because that gives you some speed right you need a burner maybe a josh reynolds a noah brown who's having a nice season and those aren't big needle movers but they're players who will be upgrades in that wide receiver room that wouldn't cost as much so that's where mind goes. I don't know if anybody else was, it stood out to

you free agency wise. No, I think more importantly, if they need flexibility, if some, an opportunity comes along that they like, it probably benefits them to try to get extension and extension done early with Brown, because then you could, you could fake his cap number. So move a little money. Yeah. And it's same could be said for, instead of having to tag Burns, getting the deal done. Like Luvu, if they get the extension done, which they should, I mean, the number's not that high anyway,

and you'll be able to keep that number really, really low in year one. And that's the whole point of why Burns needs an extension over a tag because you don't want that fixated tag number on your cap for a team that already has cap space but for all the work they have to do you'd really like them to have a lot more so yeah i agree i agree all right we're gonna jump jump into the mock and it'll be a five round mock instead of just a three round mock because caroline doesn't have that first

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first deposit match. It's free money, people. Up to $100. Check them out. PrizePix doing a lot of really cool stuff. All right, let's fire it up. Let's bring up the Mock Draft Simulator. Change the screen here. Now we got it. So we are using the PFF mock draft simulator. You guys can do the same. We're going to select the Carolina Panthers. We're going to go to five rounds. We're going to hit enter draft.

And we're doing this, obviously, so Connor and I have the same thing on the screen so you guys can see it as we go through it as well. We'll be able to talk things out. Carolina should be picking number one, but they're not. Stinks. Stuff. It would make this a lot more fun if they were. It would make it a lot more fun. be able to talk things out carolina should be picking number one but they're not stinks stuff it would make this a lot more fun if they were it would make it a lot more fun but that's how life goes sometimes that is how life goes okay so they do pick first pick of the second round i'll scroll up a little bit just see you oh drake may go number one let's go there it is just so you guys can see a little bit of how this mock draft went connor i will obviously let you take a look at some of these players who are left on

the board not keon coleman range number two oh let's see where did uh where's neighbors go oh no neighbors probably early early yeah neighbors went 10 where's the jets took bo nicks i'm sure aaron rogers is thrilled at that oh damn oh dunes a giants take joe alt yeah you kick uh kick evan neal inside neil inside yeah bucks to brock bowers unfair to kate otten kate on Look. I won't have it. Not on this show. Restart the mock. Come on. Caleb and K-Dot and his family is taking Brock Bowers at that point if he's on the table.

Oh, God. All right. So we've got the Panthers sitting here. I like the interior offensive line scenario. I really do. I always kind of hope Graham Barton makes it there. I know. But he shouldn't maybe i shoot maybe he does in real life but he's not there yet you got a marius mims on the board which i think is is uh shoot i mean that's it you kick icky in and you take a marius mims you want it to really you you take icky or you i don't even i don't

even blink i think it upgrades two positions. Because the other one that I thought about here is your boy. I didn't know he was still there. Right. So this is where you really need your staff to evaluate what they want to do offensively and if they think Icky is your left tackle. Wow. Because I see a higher floor with taking troy fought now i do as well i think i might go steady eddie and just take fought now and be like okay we got a guy that's

played tackle but we know he's going to be a really good guard i think mims is probably going to be gone i think so it's almost like we're kind of even he's there's just no way mims falls at 33 unless he had a bad medical or something weird but i think there there is an interesting conversation right because i don't think paul got taken no no so like patrick paul didn't get taken and um jordan morgan gone jordan morgan i think no both of them are still here because they're right around 49 50 on the big board so that is an interesting conversation that you bring up of evaluating Icky. Is there a tackle that you really like when you're sitting here at the top of the second round? You're upgrading the offensive line.

You're kicking him inside. I think that is a scenario. But for now, we'll leave. I think we should leave Icky at left tackle. We should take Troy because I know there's not a receiver that's. I mean, I love Xavier Leggett. But I don't need to take him in this spot. I love Xavier Leguette.

I love Jalen Polk. Me too. They're good football players, but I'd rather hit O-line. Me too. Me too. I would take – I'm taking Troy there, and I feel really good about it. Yeah, and Troy Fountainow, you know? A little bit shorter for Bryce, you you know hey there we go i'm just saying all right we'll take troy what a way to talk ourselves into the

pick we'll take joy at 33 uh oh mary smith went right after that. What do you think? So, okay. This second round. So now we're probably looking at wide receiver. McCarthy's in the green room just sick of being on camera at this point. You know, it's the PFF ranking. And it's correct. Oh. Yeah, we can't do it, right? Because he's just not going to be there.

He's not going to be there he's i he's not going to be there so this is brian thomas i'm i'm moving him up in my next uh yeah mock draft because i'd love that big board rankings yeah that's that's a fantastic pick obviously but i think we should ignore brian thomas jr because i don't think he's going to be there at the beginning of the third round i agree i don't know if he's a first rounder. I'm not there yet. It's the pendulum always just swings a little too far, but he is. I think he's at least a second rounder. Mm hmm.

Riley Leonard just entered the transfer portal. I didn't see that. Why we were recording the show. Yeah, I did see that. I did see that. That's the right decision. It's the right decision. So he obviously he's going to be.

We're going to be updating the rankings in the big boards pretty regularly, I think, over the next couple of weeks, because you're going to get a lot of players who are announcing that they're transferring or announcing that they're sitting out of the bowl game and they're officially in the draft pool. So be on the lookout for that, obviously. We got a lot more. Oh, do we double dip?

I like Christian Haynes. I do too. Do we dare? Well, I think we might just say let's just protect bryce because there's no there's no wide receiver value here no it's not yeah we don't because who's the next receiver right that's what i'm my question goes to oh i would take zach frazier actually that's who i was i think i think there's a chance i think zach frazier could be available at the beginning of third round i absolutely believe that well now he's got the injury right didn't he get um is he hurt did i miss that i could i could be wrong no i think he yeah i think he got hurt bozeman's gonna be their center but do you think that

frazier could play guard well i think frazier could play guard and then i think it's also kind of what the jets did with tipman this year where they draft him he's just so good you play him a guard but you know long term he's going to be your center and he's already started to get center reps now with the government hurt i also like dave ratledge as well if you we wanted to if we wanted to double dip on offensive line, there's some good guys here to do that. Wide receiver, you start getting into Tez Walker from North Carolina, who I think could be big for it.

God, Troy Franklin went one pick earlier. That's really annoying. Damn it, I didn't even see that. That's really annoying. Oh, Ladd went four picks earlier? Franklin would have been dynamite because then you got a stretched guy. Could have been goaded. This mock draft.

Yeah. For me, it's, it's Frazier. Okay. But I just think I feel so good about this offensive line. If I make those picks back to back now, hold on,

but wait, hold on. Let's, let's do a little, you know, sc scouting because we don't pick it till 101 i mean maybe tez walker's still there probably not i like tory horton i like horton i like roman wilson i like okay okay okay okay well trevor we got value coming up okay okay all right i just look i'm doing it i play the board gotta play the board gotta do what we gotta do okay so you're you want frazier you're a frazier guy i i do but you you need to have you need to be david tepper here you need that final say i can't just make the pick off

the rails and my my staff doesn't agree uh i like christian haynes better okay then we'll go with haynes because i think both of those dudes can play... Guard and center. Guard and center. Yeah. Haynes is a little bit bigger. No, he's actually a little bit shorter. He's small. Yeah, he's really small. I don't think he's 3'13".

Bryce? Bryce? Smaller center? Is there any 5'11 guards? Oh, man. I would pick Haynes. Haynes is higher in my ranking. I would pick Haynes. Okay. Okay, in my ranking. I would pick Haynes.

Okay. Okay, so we're double dipping an interior offensive line. I kind of love that. Now we're all over. Kind of love that for us. And now we're going to triple dip with Cedric Van Praan. And it's done. Okay, so Tess Walker did make it.

Yeah. Really nice athlete. I like that. That's one you feel pretty good about yeah i like burton as well i like mcmillan i don't like mcmillan i don't i i didn't like him over summer and i really tried hard this year well hold on i like him here yeah that's fine i think people were talking about mcmillan is a top. I think that's where it got. 50 dude.

When we did summer scouting, I'm like, what am I missing? Yeah. Roman Wilson just catches everything. I like Roman Wilson a lot. Would you do Roman Wilson or Tez Walker? Hmm. I feel like this is like choosing between a reliable guy versus a guy that I just see a lot of upside in. Tez Walker,

not nearly the route runner he needs to be to succeed at the NFL. No, he's not, but he's fast as hell. He is fast. Vertical threat, big time. But I think I would take Roman Wilson because although does that,

do you already have the reliable hands guy in Thielen? Oh brother. Thielen's 34. I know, right? We're not even, we're not even bringing that up. We're not even bringing that up. Oh, brother, Thielen's 34. I know, right? We're not even bringing that up. We're not even bringing that up. I think Roman Wilson's a really good player. Yeah, I do as well.

I like Roman Wilson. Can he be their poor man's puka? No, he could be the rich man's puka. How about that? Flip it on its head. All right, Roman Wilson. Gucci puka. And then we've got...

Matarati Puka. And then we've got. Maserati Puka. Yeah. Porsche Puka. It was right there for you. It was. I was talking about just totally missing. All right, so actually we have two fifth round picks.

I didn't realize that. So we went O-line, O-line. Troy Fountainow, Christian Haynes, and then Roman wilson now we're kind of looking at value yeah i like antoine power island as a bigger edge player although i guess he's only yeah he's only 242 and he plays bigger plays stronger but i guess we don't really need that cooper b but just bb just people get mad people get really mad at me for that man you you you really have something to get it's personal no you two have definitely something happened you guys at a restaurant or something i promise you it's not personal i He turned down an interview with Alyssa. Yeah, yes, yes.

Something happened. That is what happened. To personally insult my family. I think Cooper is a really good college interior offensive lineman, man. But I think the feet are slow, and I worry about the length. And those are two areas that really concern me. Now, offensive line is one of those – offensive line, I feel like, is one of those positions where, like, if you are just stouting your technique strong and tough as hell,

you can make it in the league. And so maybe Cooper Beebe does end up being one of those guys. But I rewatched his film recently, and it's like, he's just not a great athlete, and he's not gifted with good measurables. And that's really tough to be a starter at the NFL level when you were behind the eight ball on both those things. So I think he's a nice mid-round player, like early day three type

of a player, but I don't know. That's kind of where I am at him. I know I'm way lower on him than it feels like everybody else is, but I gotta speak my truth. There's nothing wrong with that. Man, Kyrie Jackson action? Dale Holker? They do need some corner depth. speak my truth um there's nothing wrong with that man kairi jackson action no dalen holker they do need some corner they need some corner depth young bronc out here no

every tight end is just grog young grog is there a running back with some serious upside here i think jaquavius aka woody marks is pretty dang good man okay i need to catch up on him for sure i think he's pretty good i probably got him a little too low i think he's a i think he's been a really i think he's a good athlete too up at 210 that's what i'm looking for here he's been hurt so i if you want to take a flyer on him, we can, that would be the guy here that I would. Um,

but we might be able to get a running back really late. Like we might be able to, well, they were only going one more pick after this. Yeah. It's what is it? 30 picks after I, we also need some secondary depth here with chin leaving and they're things have been great in that secondary so we could cheat here and we could get mike sammer still who him and tyreek

williams both these dudes are are going way up on the next one yeah i'd rather not like i don't think i don't think we could do that no i don't think so either. Makuba would be an option. Makuba maybe. The corner slash safety from Clemson. James Williams, if you wanted to get that unique athlete, big giant athlete over there. He is gigantic.

I actually like Brian Mays. He's a name that I have not heard a lot of love from. No, I haven't watched him yet. He's good, man. He plays a lot of press man coverage. He's a really aggressive corner. I think he's got good ball skills. He's a little light, as you can see, but he's 6'1". He's got good length.

Manuel Formas won the first round last year. I'll never say a corner's too light ever again. Let's do a little Brian. Yeah, I like the thought process with that one, and somebody I will watch immediately. Then this last pick, I can go Frank Gore Jr. If you wanted to get a running back in there. Yeah, I definitely want to look for a running back.

I might want somebody with a little bit more measurables. Let's see what we're working with. Man, Rocket Sanders, huh? Just I haven't done a recheck since we did scouting on him. I didn't love him over the summer. I wasn't a big rocket sanders dude going into the season he's been hurt and he's been playing hurt and so unfortunately that doesn't really change my thought process of him but he's you want to talk about measurables

this dude's six foot two 242 yeah i mean like he's the guy that you would probably take a chance on he's a really great straight line athlete i just i did not love the vision and lateral ability no i i'm looking at my summer notes i just already just dance this way too much considering his size and raw power like he needs to keep his feet going i'd be down for mcclellan yeah i was gonna say i would go mcclellan or or my even mine williams those are the two names i think montreal's coming back um people that have talked to a floor. That makes sense. Montrell's coming back. So let's go McClellan.

Okay, cool. All right, there we go. I think that's it. That's all the picks we got. Hey, we made the most of the Play-Doh we had. Damn. PFF hated it. PFF, a bunch of haters.

C- draft. It's funny because it's technically you. It's just going by where you got it, guy. It's me. It's automated robot you shitting on real life. Who is it? Is it Nick Cage? Is it?

What clip is it? Is it like Nick Cage of him like sitting in the bathroom and then all of a sudden just like picking up the pistol and just like pointing it at the mirror? Yes, it is Nick Cage of him sitting in the bathroom and then all of a sudden just picking up the pistol and just pointing it at the mirror? Yes, it is Nick Cage, isn't it? I think so. I feel like I've definitely run into this. Yeah, he's just like, that's me right now with this mock draft.

It's me at the bathroom and then just all of a sudden picking up the pistol and then just pointing it straight at the mirror. This is me. So, yeah, there we go. Troy Fountain now. Christian Hayes, two interior offensive linemen. like pointing it straight at the mirror this is me so yeah there we go uh troy fowler now christian hayes two interior offensive linemen i think you'd be starters on this team either guard or center uh roman wilson i think is an immediate volume dude in this wide receiver room brian mays a nice depth press man type of corner and then jason watch mays yeah get a nice uh

nice running back here in this running back room. All right, there we go. Just like that, the Panthers are fixed, undefeated. And just like that, yeah, we got who we got to coach. We've got – Who do we got to coach? We got Ben Johnson. Scott Fitter's probably gone, but then we got that draft haul. Brian Burton's coming back on the tag. You're bringing back Frankie Louvu.

Let's get Noah Brown in there. So we got Jonathan Mingo, Noah Brown, Adam Thielen, Roman Wilson, Bryce Young. Hopefully he doesn't quit. And then a much, much, much better offensive line. You got to build the trenches. That's the key right there. Let us know. Let us know, obviously, what you guys thought.

We would love to hear from you. What you thought about the conversation about how we got to this point with there let us know let us know obviously what you guys thought we would love to hear from you what we thought what you thought about the conversation about how we got to this point with right being fired thoughts on david tepper thoughts on scott fitterer um whether it was the right move whether it was the wrong move let us know what you thought of our coaching candidates here for this team and some coach candidates that could be for some other teams as well the salary cap situation and of course the mock draft best way to do that youtube.com backslash NFL Stock Exchange. Getting in the comments on there is our favorite thing to do,

especially when it comes to these podcasts, where we are really getting into the nitty-gritty of building these franchises out. We would love to hear from you. If you are audio-only, hit us up on X and Instagram, at ConnorJRogers, at TampaBayTrade. That is the best way to do that. Connor, got anything else before we get out of here? I do. I've been wanting to say this all show,

and I can't believe I almost forgot. We almost did the whole episode without saying it. Okay, now I'm nervous. Keep pounding. It's one of my favorite team hashtags. Keep pounding. You know, they might need to change it. Nope.

Over the last, since Teppers took over the team, we might need to change it. Nope. Over the last instance, since Teppers took over the team, we might need to change it. True. We might need a new phrase. So if you out there have a new phrase for the Carolina Panthers to go by, that is not hashtag keep pounding. Let us know.

Let's think of something. Cats meow. Okay. All right. You need time. I'm cutting you off. You need to workshop this before you say these ideas out loud in the podcast man i love the panthers i really do there's just so much to work with there cue the robbie anderson uh that's what you call him sir purr wow but the best the best part of that clip is he goes that's

what you call him, sir. Per. And then he, I think somebody goes like, yeah, or nods. And then he just goes,

wow. And like, that's it. Like, what else is there? I cannot believe there's nothing else to say. Shout out to sir. Per I'm Trevor Sigma.

That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL stock exchange podcast. We will see you on Monday. I'm Trevor Sikma. That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. We will see you next time.