NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 215. Trade Price For No. 1 Pick, Explaining PFF Grades, Future Draft Risers & More (Mailbag Ep.)

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers open up their mid-week mail bag to answer your burning 2024 NFL Draft questions. The two get into the Kinchens vs. Nubin top safety debates, establish price for the No. 1 pick for a trade, and give you some future draft risers to be on the lookout for

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, it is a mailbag episode.

So you guys are picking what we're talking about. We've got a ton of great topics and some great voicemails that we get to play on the show. We're talking PFF grades. We're explaining some PFF grades. We're establishing what the price would be for Chicago to trade down from number one overall. Are we rebuilding the Seahawks? Are we rebuilding the Detroit Lions?

Who are some sleepers who could rise throughout the draft process when we get to it beyond January? All that and so much more. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers joining you guys for a midweek mailbag edition of the show. They said it couldn't be done. They said I could not come up with another alliteration. Well, they were wrong. Connor, I'm very, very excited about this one.

We haven't done a mailbag in quite some time. And we said on Monday, we're going to open it up to either you could give us your questions through social media, DM to the YouTube comments through speak pipe. So we can get you guys voices in on the show as well. And the people did not disappoint. We've got a ton of questions. We're going to try to get to, we can't get to all of them, but we're going to get to as many as we possibly can because y'all showed up big time. And we've gotten a sneak peek at these, Connor,

but I'm excited to talk about these with you. The creativity is great, as always. Full transparency, if you really want to question in on the show, I would say your odds your best odds are speak pipe because we love playing your voice on the show it's funny it has character and our producer ryan does such a good job checking that account and then i would say second youtube comments if you get a couple thumbs up that's gonna bump into the top i went through as many youtube comments as i can i love when you guys dm us i've become the worst person ever at consistency and checking dms it'll

be like an hour of a random hour of the month where i check all of them and try to answer all of them and then three weeks go by and i haven't read a single dm i've literally had people like family or people i work with they're like you just ignore me and i'm like no i it's everyone like it's not me being so you're not even putting them on red you're you're leaving them you're leaving them in the uh what is the like the thing in the quested yeah you're you're not even leaving them on red you're leaving them on requested right and it's not even intentional it's just the instagram is such a mess that there's your top requests and then all requests. You're just that cool.

I'm not. It's mostly spam. Are you verified on Instagram? I am. And it's mostly spam. I'm not verified, so I don't have those separated in box. Oh, okay. All right. He's giving me the big thing.

You'll get there, big dog, at the top of the show. Hold on. Let's not forget who's verified on Twitter, by the way. Oh, that's true. Yeah, with a little badge next to it that says PFF employee. I'm not even verified on Twitter anymore. You can't play this, I'm verified on Instagram. That matters.

We're each a man of the people on different platforms. Yes. We're like the screw the establishment kind man of the people on a different platform. Yes. You know, we're, we're like, you know, the, you know,

screw the establishment kind of thing, but on the, on the different platforms. So we're representing everybody, which is good. Um, all right, I guess we'll just jump into this one.

Like Connor said, we're going to do more of the speak pipe ones, just because we love when you guys can get your voice in the show. That's a lot of fun for us. It's a creative way to kind of do these mailbag episodes, but, uh, Connor, you ready to go? We can just kick it off with the first one. Let's fire away. I'm excited.

All right, let's do it. Hey, guys. Long time sex addict. First time caller. 6'3", 195. I'm a Bills fan. I like the Jared Verst pick in the draft. I definitely see that as a need, but I think we need to address the secondary early as well because Poyer and Hyde, thank you for your service. DeMar Hamlin, thank you for surviving. But we don't have an answer there long term. You know, I like Dajin switching to safety. And then you got Kitchens and Newben at the top. Can you guys talk about the depth of the safety position? You know, if the Bills are taking at 15, that might be a little high

for safety. Can you get good value in day two there? And then, you know, personally, I think Tyler Newben is better than Cam Kitchens. I know Trevor's been saying he's a Kitchens guy over Newben lately. And I'm just wondering, you know, I'm a PFF believer. I trust the data. Newben's graded in the 90s. Kitchens is graded in the 60s. Why does Kitchens get that edge? Can you guys talk more about how you look at this PFF data when doing your scouting? I know there's other factors you got to look at, like physicals and upside and all that. But personally, I don't get how you give Kitchens the edge over Nubin when Nubin's been playing better all year and they're already similar prospects.

So yeah, looking forward to hearing from you guys big fan of the show and thank you all right great one good one to good one to start it out oh shoot you're off the rails I know I'm playing the other one I'm playing the other one I'm playing the other one all right all right we're good we're good we're good we're good we're good phone uh phone was messing up on me all right so connor first part of the question is kind of safety for the bills right buffalo bills fan thinking all right what's this safety class look like the bills are picking right around the middle of the first round it's a little too rich for a safety you're right with the safety there and then you know we'll get into the i'll i can get into the Kinshans Nubin conversation. I could spearhead that one because that was kind of like a hey, how does why does Trevor have Kinshans above Nubin?

I think you have Nubin above Kinshans, right? Yeah, I still do. So you got you got Nubin to safety one. So we can go back and forth about that one. But what do you think about either of these guys, I guess? As an option for Buffalo in the first round. I agree, honestly, with his stance that it just feels a little early.

The reason I had Cooper there is because I think he's, not only do I think he could still play corner, I think he's such a special, versatile player, whether it is being a big nickel, whether you could literally sit him in a shell if you want. He could do so many things for you. It's a matchup player, right? Like if you're looking at the bills and you're against the Chiefs in the playoffs,

I'd want Cooper to be the guy covering Travis Kelsey is how I look at it in that scenario. But with the other guys, and I'll do full transparency here, Trevor, you and I are in the middle of rechecks and end-season grades before online. I haven't done safeties yet. You and I are deep in wide receiver right now. That's a really deep group. I haven't done a recheck of the safeties yet. Although, every time I dip my toes in on that class, there's not a lot there.

So I wonder if by the end of it, I'll find that day two guy that he was hinting at that. I'm like, OK, I like this guy. The safety safety as a whole is a position that is the depth of it is struggling in the NFL draft recently. I think so. And then back to the conversation about if it's, you know, Cooper was gone or they wanted to take a guy that truly played safety in college, then I kind of default to taking one of the top corners because it feels like Kinchin's is still a really interesting athlete and a versatile player. Nubin's a guy with a ton of experience.

The ball production speaks for itself. But I do wonder, like, I don't know if those guys are going to go in the top 20. It just feels a little bit early for me. So yeah, I think it's a good point. And it kind of makes me default to the fact that I'd have to look at the free agency class. There are usually actually capable starting safeties in free agency, ironically, because it's not a market that explodes. Jesse Bates is the biggest recent example.

And even he left. He left the Bengals and signed a big deal with Atlanta and he's been really good for Atlanta. Right. So yeah, I don't, it to me, it's not a position unless the guy is special,

like that. You're Kyle Hamilton was a big time player that this position typically goes top 15 to 20. Yeah. I don't, I don't feel as though safety, even taking the top one in this class is, it is going to be something where you take

them with a top 20 pick and you just feel great about it like where buffalo is kind of slotted right now buffalo ends up going on a postseason run and we're talking about you know pick 28 29 i think that's more in the conversation of okay if you get either a tyler newman or cam kitchens uh then you're you're more okay with it but middle the first round, there's going to be too many good edge rushers that are there. There's going to be too many good corners that are there for you to take one of those guys. If you're taking one of them in the middle of the first round, you're probably taking Dajin anyways because of that versatility.

So I agree with you there. And then the second part of the question, when it comes to evaluating PFF grades and PFF data, which salute for you to say that you're big on the PFF data. We really appreciate it. So I wanted to make sure that we weren't just living in a, what have you done for me lately, kind of an environment with this discussion between Nubin and Kenshin's,

because there's no doubt about it that Nubin has been more impactful and more consistent this year. But I went back and I looked at the data from both 2022 and 2023. So in 2022, Cam Kinchens had a 90.7 grade in coverage. And he had a 71.3 run defense grade. Meanwhile, Nubin had a 76.2 grade in coverage that year and an 83.4 run defense grade. This year, it's almost completely flipped. Nubin has the exact same coverage grade that Kinchin's had in 2022 at a 90.7, and he has a run defense grade of 70.2. That's almost identical to what

Kinchin's was in 2022. Meanwhile, Kinchin's this year this year yeah much worse coverage grade 62.1 and the run defense grade is 72.3 so he's been pretty consistent in run defense over the last couple of years but those are the grades there so i i wanted to bring that up because i think people think about tyler newman season that he's had this year especially to begin the year he started off really hot and they just go oh okay this is no question about it the best safety in the draft safety like like any secondary position very up and down so large sample sizes are to your advantage so you really have to and you want to if you can take a couple of years of starting experience in this so these guys are pretty even and it's really just about the style and preference of these two safeties.

Tyler Newbin is a more consistent player, especially when it comes to run defense. You mentioned how experienced he was, how he sees the field. Like those are things that his anticipation is recognition. When he breaks on the ball, all that stuff. He is better than Kinshans at that. There's no doubt about it. Tyler Newbin makes less mistakes and he's got some higher grades he's got less uh of a missed tackle percentage both in run defense and in coverage because of those things and he's just a more consistent safety player but he's also more of a

to me too high safety player like i think this is a guy who you could play him as a free safety and you could play him as a strong safety but if you're playing him as a free safety you're not going to want him in a lot of single high situations he's not I don't think he's that caliber of an athlete whereas Kinchins and the reason why I have had him above Newman I don't know if that's what it's going to be when it's all said and done but the reason why I have him above it is because when it comes to that single high center field coverage ability, Kinchin's has proven to be a better athlete and a more impactful player in that result. So you talk about PFF data, I sorted and filtered single high situations, okay?

So where you're playing one deep safety and where one of these guys is lined up as that free safety specifically. Cam Kinchin's over the last two years, so it's a bigger sample size now, has played 207 snaps as a single high free safety and has a coverage grade of 89.8. It's really good. Nubin, on the other hand, has played less than half of that, only 95 snaps over the last two years as a single high free safety

and has a coverage grade of 60.3. So a lot of that, those great coverage plays for Nubin come when he is still in a two safety shell where he doesn't have to cover from sideline to sideline or numbers to numbers. So that is kind of a, a, that's the reason why I still lean Kinchin's because of the athlete that he has proven to be sideline to sideline as that free free safety type of a player so not nearly as consistent as a ball player and if you run a lot of two safety stuff tyler newman's probably going to be your guy because he's so steady um and he's such a smart football player but i think kinch is a little bit better of an athlete and i think he

gives you a little bit higher of a ceiling of that higher difficulty label or ask of the safety position. I think it's a perfect breakdown of it. It's a matter of if you with kitchens, you are probably going to have to project bigger things for him at the next level. Like you're looking at it going our defense, our situation, our scheme. We're going to put a lot on his plate and we think he can handle it. Where with Nubin, you are probably drafting him and saying, we feel really good about the floor of this player.

The miss rate on him will be lower because like you said, Trevor, not a lot of mistakes on tape from him. Yep. And he has, he's a multi-year starter, multi-successful year starter that has found the football. So yeah, that's ultimately what it comes down to and and how they're drafted will be really interesting to see how that is reflected right because the yep newman's coming newman is going to come out on top with the tape uh they're both

pretty consistency of it for sure like there's just there's more can't just plays a more aggressive style and because of that you see sometimes he takes much poorer angles sometimes he's too aggressive in that regard sometimes he's got missed tackles you know things like that so yes i agree with that yeah um okay want to get to the next one yeah let's do the next one hey guys this is your boy dan alter known on twitter is dan dan dan dan dan dan uh 62270 because I know y'all like the measurements. My question is pertaining to the Detroit Lions. So obviously, in my opinion, I think the best selection for them would be a corner or an edge. But I think an alternate theory that could be

explored is the potential for a quarterback. And mainly, I would look at Bo Nix or Jane Daniels in the late teens teens early 20s for the lines to be able to move up to get my opinion is based around i think those guys bring more athletic upside to the quarterback position than like jared goff and i think also just like a better arm while they may not be i think they're more like point guard guys in that kind of offensive system i think it would be a good idea to explore especially with golf looking to probably get the daniel jones contract of like what like 40 to 50 million dollars a year almost um i think it would be a good idea

mostly because when i watch golf play it's like he almost needs a perfect platform to be able to operate the offense and i think like if you were to bring in a quarterback who could operate off platform even if they're more of a point guard it could be good to continuing to build the team so let me know what you guys think i appreciate it all right so what do we think about i don't know why it's not let me pause when i want to pause um what do we think about... I don't know why it's not letting me pause when I want to pause. What do you think about the idea of the Lions potentially drafting a quarterback? I have not thought about this or done this in a mock draft format yet, but Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan brings up some valid points.

I think what's tricky with it is that how quickly we forget they did just draft Hendon Hooker. So. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Everybody just forgot. I literally did forget that. He was a top 70 pick.

So I think this regime has taken their first swing at a different player than Goff. Now with Hooker, he was a guy that when you watch this film at Tennessee, you really like him in structure. He could move. Honestly, it was so interesting watching Geno's rise and watching Hooker's breakout year at Tennessee because so many of the things that Geno did really well, Hooker did really well

that you could see some comparison there with Hooker as a prospect. And I think Hooker would give you a little bit more mobility, assuming he comes back from the injury, but that's not why you took him. I just think that's I don't know if that's what the Lions are trying to be. Yeah, honestly, right, Trevor, they built this incredible offensive line. They have a play caller that hopefully he's there for the long term, but he might be a head coach who can create space. They have a middle of the field

monster in Amon Ross, Sam Brown, Sam Laporta. The same thing could be said about him. Now they have the threat of stretching the field and Jamison Williams. I think they just like their quarterback to be operating at his best above his shoulders. And Goff makes bad decisions. Don't get me wrong.

But Goff also has such a command of the offense that he hasn't needed that upper tier athleticism. A lot of guys do for the Lions offense to thrive. Yeah, I understand where Dan's coming from. Obviously, if you're in a situation where you think your quarterback is middling that's kind of a tough spot to be right you never want to be there as a fan um you always want to be believing that your quarterback has a super bowl caliber ceiling and for as good as the lions are to dan's point there's there's a lot of things that have to go right on offense for them to be like super bowl caliber i'm not saying it's

impossible but you know he's not as much of a creator uh as some of the other great quarterbacks are in the league that you know that the lions are going to have to face in the playoffs so i understand where he's coming from but i i totally i actually really did forget that uh they drafted handed hooker and uh while you were chatting i i looked it up and, you know, as of this week, Henned Hooker is back at practice. So yeah, Teddy Bridgewater had some big quotes on him. So, I mean, that's a, that's a really big step in the right direction. Obviously coming off that rehab of,

of that knee injury that he had at the end of his season last year with Tennessee. So I, I understand where Dan's coming from. I just don't think it's very realistic. I don't think that they're going to... I think they believe they're in a window right now and they're going to try to just maximize it as much as they can. And they love Goff. Think about it like this. Brad Holmes was with the Rams. And then Brad Holmes traded for Jared Goff.

So it's... I mean, they really like Jared Goff. So it's, I mean, they really like Jared Goff. I get it, though. I get the fans' perspective. You always want more at a quarterback position that you watch these primetime games and you see Lamar Jackson, you see Pat Mahomes, you see Josh Allen.

But I think some franchises know when you kind of get, you know, your eye gets caught to the golden apple that you could just completely miss it. All the lines might like their floor at quarterback is what I'm saying. Yeah. So that guy, I just think they,

I think what I'm trying to say in a long winded way, besides the fact that Hennon hookers in that building, and I'm sure they have high hopes for him is that they probably think they could win a Superbowl with Jared Goff. Sure. No.ff. Sure. He's been to one. Yeah, right. I think that that's the case.

I agree with you. I think that they believe that they can win a Super Bowl or compete the way that they need to with Jared Goff. So I understand the question. I just don't think it's very realistic for the Lions. I think, again, they're going corner. They're going edge rusher. They need a defense. They need, yeah. They're going to go for the Lions. I think, again, they're going corner. They're going edge rusher. They need a defense.

They need, yeah. They're going to go towards the defense. All right, next question. Addict brethren. Long-time listener, first-time caller. My question is, who's a player from summer scouting that may have gone under the radar, but now is shaping up to be a second or third round

day two impact player for an NFL team. For me, I'm biased as a Washington Husky alumni. I've got Jabbar Muhammad, cornerback out of Washington, dude is a ball hawk, dude is a dog, undersized, similar to Clark Phillips, but plays with a high, high level of intensity. I think he'll make an excellent nickel at the next level. Love to hear you guys' responses. Love the show. Thanks for all you do. All right.

A player from summer scouting. I have not gotten to Muhammad yet. Muhammad is – I'm always in the broadcast. Yeah, that's – I really just – I saw him balling out in the Oregon game, the Pac-12 championship. So he was somebody who I immediately put on the list. So I have not watched him yet. I need to watch him.

Connor, do you have a guy or two that maybe you watched during the summer and you were a fan of a little bit that's really been able to blow up into a potential day to pick now? That's like, I don't think he blew up into, I loved Zach Frazier over the summer. I mean, he's this Zach Frazier. I thought about him for this exercise. So I think he absolutely fits. I really liked him over the summer I mean he's this Zach Frazier I thought about him for this exercise so I think he absolutely fits I I really liked him over the summer uh I think he was my top center

but he's I mean I know he got hurt against Baylor but he he could go with the top 40 picks like that's the kind of year he had for West Virginia he's gonna go top four I don't think he's gonna go top 40 I don't think so but I'm I'm saying there's a world where he does. And he's a top 70. I think he's going to go top 75. Very easily. Very easily. I think his tape this year was tremendous.

He's going to be that center that just kills the interviews. Everyone's going to love him for how smart and tough he is. As soon as every offensive line coach hears about his wrestling background they're going to be in like oh love it i think i think frazier easily i he easily goes in the top 60 in my opinion so i also don't but do we ever get the severity of that injury by the way i don't know uh you saw the video of him hobbling off like i'm assuming it's not draft stock uh impact type with this i did not see anything like that so so you can look that up while i give so i got two guys i'll stick along

the offensive line for the first one um yukon interior offensive lineman christian haynes is somebody who and i think i i might be answering this question a little bit differently than you were but when i watched haynes this summer I was like I like this guy like I like he moves super well I think he could play guard or center but he's a little bit undersized and I wondered if he was too much finesse you know that's the way that I described Donovan Jackson from Ohio State I remember watching him a former five-star interior offensive lineman and obviously it could still all work out for him and he could have a great pro career but when I watched him over the summer I was like this this guy's too much finesse like he moves really well I could

see why people like him but he was not strong enough when it came to the punch it contact and I think that that showed up time and time again with Haynes I didn't really see that but I think I convinced myself that he just moved too well that I was like all right he's just too light to be an NFL interior offensive lineman he had another year this year where he had a hell of a year okay last year he had an 83.9 overall grade with a 91 pass blocking grade. And this year, which remember guys, volume with PFF grades is good. You want to be able to stack multiple years of grading. Well, that's when you know you got a good player.

84.8 overall grade and an 87.0 pass blocking grade. So two years in a row, this guy's been a fantastic overall blocker, a fantastic pass blocker. And I just, I did not give him enough love this summer scouting and i'm kicking myself because i think this guy's a day absolutely a day two pick now and i think he could be a starter in the nfl at guard or at center the other player that wanted to bring to the table mikey san rassil the nickel corner from michigan we've talked about him on the show i think you guys have seen him on Twitter because he's, he's like one of those popular players now as like the under the radar dude, but he is another guy.

I watched his tape from last year in summer scouting. And I was like, God, this dude's fiery. I love the way he plays the nickel cornerback position. He is so much fun. He's got a nose for the ball. They'll blitz him.

He'll, he'll help as much as you can to run defense. He was just, he's small. He's just a nose for the ball. They'll blitz him. He'll, he'll help as much as he can to run defense. He was just, he's small. He's just a small football player. And sometimes that can work out if you're, if you're a nickel, but he's just a small football player. And I was like, all right, I like him, but I'm not going to put him that high on the big board.

I should have, I should have stuck to the conviction, should have stuck to the tape said, I like the way that I, that I see him play. Uh, cause this dude's, I don't know if he's going to be a second round pick because players of his size not often are. But third round pick, absolutely. Fourth round pick, at worst. And I think that he is just having a fantastic year. So those are two guys that over summer I liked,

but clearly I didn't like enough that I think are going to be risers in this draft class. There's two more. One, I can't say because he's literally his own question from another voicemail. So we'll get to him in a second. And then the other one, I know we both watch because we talked about him on summer scouting. And that was Mitchell, the corner from Toledo. Oh, stud. Yeah.

But I thought his summer watch was so interesting. He had five picks and 20 pass breakups in 2022. But when you watch the tape, four of the five interceptions were against NIU, whoever the quarterback was. You're right. It looked like you were me back there. And then he had a game against, was it Ohio State?

He had one big power five five game and he was bad. And we were like, OK, we get why he's on the watch list. He's interesting player. The ball production is great. He's a legit NFL prospect, but maybe the pendulum will swing too far because of the stats. And then this year he's been really, really good. He's built on it. So like that, that's one that I mean, I'm sure he's going to be in the top two rounds of some mock drafts you and i talked about him over summer but he's he's in a totally different

stratosphere right now i kind of worried about and it's i think it's a little silly now but i worried about his speed on tape in 2022 because he doesn't play press i don't think at all sat off almost every play it felt like he's off coverage a lot and i was like okay you're clearly like a a man up type of a mentality corner why aren't they letting you play this way is it because you can't turn and run and i wondered if that was the case and i don't know the tape didn't really convince me otherwise and yeah this year i think that he's he's really shown that that that clicking close ability and that recovery speed is something that he has. It's just something that we didn't see a lot from a press alignment because he's not asked to do it.

So I think that's a really good shout out to next one. Next one. Yeah. Hey, fellas, this is Patrick from upstate New York. First time, long time. I'm a big fan of the pod. Followed you guys for a long time. Love what you guys are doing. I have a question about guys with medical red flags in this upcoming draft class. You guys have talked about Liatulatu. You talked about Michael Penix being guys whose medical information could make a big impact on where teams have them on their boards.

I'm curious if there are other players who are in that category as well. If you guys could fill us in on some other players who might have those types of medical red flags, where they land, where they are on teams' boards might vary dramatically based on what medical information teams are able to gather on them. So we'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on some players who fall in that camp. Appreciate everything you guys do. Thanks. All right.

Shout out, Patrick. Shout out to Patrick. Upstate New York. I've spent many of my living years in upstate New York. Not anymore, but still a phenomenal place. Shout out to Patrick. Trevor, for this one, the reality is, besides the ones that you know because it's such a big part of their process,

like Penix, like Latu. Latu was a medical retirement. Penix was a guy that has had a laundry list of injuries and has rebuilt his career. You typically don't find these out until after the combine because the teams get to check every player. And the way I'll find out is, you know, I have a guy way too high

and somebody will text me and be like, hey, just let you know, heard this about this guy. It got flagged. And I typically don't publicly speak about it. If it's something that I think is significant to the player's career, I'll move them down

because injuries matter in evaluations. Like you don't get a pass when you loved a guy that was i mean there's a lot of ways to go about it that had an injury history and then he's hurt in the nfl and you're like well i couldn't see this coming it's part of the evaluation process or smaller getting hurt but yeah it's one of those things that you know typically right now to be honest with you the teams don't know all of them because they haven't gotten to do medical checks with these guys yeah there's there's three that kind of stand out that i know of at least right now that i'm not saying that they're gonna fail medicals but they have extensive injury histories and they're awesome football players

and this might kind of get in the way of that so it maybe answers a little bit of patrick's question the obvious one that we've talked about before is Jalen Catalan, the safety who was at Arkansas, looked like an absolute animal, his redshirt sophomore year. And then he tore his ACL. Actually, he tore his ACL in high school, if I'm remembering this correctly. And then, hold on, I'm just going to scroll to make sure I got it. Yeah, tore hisl in high school

then he had season ending shoulder injury in 2021 he had a broken hand in 2021 as well and then he also had season ending surge shoulder surgery in 2022 so this is now a strong safety defensive player who's got a tackle who's got multiple season ending shoulder surgeries, which is never a good thing. He's at Texas now. There's another player, Landon Jackson, who is the defensive end at Arkansas, who I like a lot. I don't know if he's going to declare for this draft class because I've read that he's in between declaring and coming back for another year. And I can understand why he would want to come back for another year, because his injury history is, tore his ACL his sophomore year in high school.

He had a season-ending ankle injury his senior year of high school. And then he had another ACL injury, which is kind of unspecified, his freshman year when he was at LSU. So then after he was at LSU for that freshman year, he transferred over to Arkansas. It took him a full year to kind of recoverpecified his freshman year when he was at LSU. So then after he was at LSU for that freshman year, he transferred over to Arkansas. It took him a full year to kind of like recover from that. And this past year was the first year that Jackson himself basically said that he's been healthy in like five seasons.

So for as good as he might look in flashes, he probably thinks, damn, I, if, if I have another full off season of being fully healthy um i'm gonna be a lot better and i'm gonna be in position to be a first round pick the last one is is peyton wilson the linebacker from nc state good call out yeah peyton wilson has some of the

most fun tape you'll see probably the best linebacker in college football this season. So he had a knee injury, his senior year of high school. And then he tore his ACL, his freshman year at NC state got healthy, played well in 2020, the 2020 season. And then in 2021 suffered a season ending dislocated shoulder and torn

labrum. He has since kind of been on the field on and off. But, you know, he had a knee injury again that was minor, not a major one. And it's just like, man, this dude, awesome when he's on the field. But he's so beat up for a position that asks you to tackle and be physical basically every single play. So those are three guys that kind of popped into my head when i thought about patch question that are uh they might get flagged when it comes to uh those combine rechecks whenever it is yep good call outs on all and this pod's

pretty transparent as long as it's not going to affect a player's stock we usually are pretty honest with what's going on because and i say affect the player's stock we usually are pretty honest with what's going on because and i say affect the player's stock like the nfl teams have more info than trevor and i do so if we say hey no i know they don't are they that's true they don't know we know the players in the nfl team we know everything we don't know the players we probably have ranked them better than plenty of teams agents agents of all 32 nfl teams listen to this podcast and are noted sex addicts for the information that we give that they can't get any hey imagine just get a voicemail from like who's the funniest gm we could get a speak fight from uh jim eric jim ursae probably

he counts he does count hey guys long time it's like whoa what's up jerry obviously i mean that would be it that would be a that would be a good one would love doesn't count as a gm still but oh does he not no because his son's gm the gm and will mcclay actually does all their drafts who's not a gm all right but then it'd be better if jerry called in because then he just you know right he'd just be an owner unhinged questions that's what we'd want all right we'll go to the next one uh i'll i'll pick the next two but then it'd be better if Jerry called in. Cause then he just, you know, he'd just be an owner unhinged questions. That's what we'd want. All right. We'll go to the next one.

I'll, I'll pick the next two from the YouTube comments. Cause like we said, we're going to try to mix and match here. Yeah. Josh Summers, 96. So what are your,

what are you guys thoughts on the Seahawks season and how the franchise should build over the next couple of years? It feels as though we've underperformed this season, given the talent on both sides of the ball and are headed for quite possibly an eight and nine record. Is it time to move on from Pete or is there a chance that he can make one last run at a Super Bowl? Bonus question. What have you guys made of JSN's rookie season? Huge fan of the pod. Thank you for all you do for the draft coverage here for us over in the UK. What do you think about the Seahawks, Connor? Nice question. So, okay. A lot

with the Seahawks because they're a team I'm very conflicted on. They have made some really nice draft picks in recent years. When you look at their drafts, Witherspoons looked great this year. Their young players up front on the defensive line have made improvements. Like Boye Mafe comes to mind mind they obviously took the two tackles the year before that i know they've had some injuries on the offensive line this year jsn has really turned the corner in the second half of this season so when you look at seattle it feels like they're aging at safety and it's funny to say aging because they're not that old but they're like jamal adams looks like a totally different player

than what he was with the Jets. He's just had so many injuries. What's his contract? It's a wild contract, but they probably can cut him if they really want to this offseason. Because they also have digs under contract as well. So this offseason, they have an out where they can save $6 million on a cap because he goes up to $26 million.

Okay, this is last year on the team. Yeah. He goes from $11.4 of a cap hit this year to $26.9 next year and $27.9 the year after that. He's a designated post-June. Unless you are extending this dude's contract. Yeah. He either reworks his deal or they cut him.

And honestly, if I was Seattle and I'd have no problem cutting it, I think they're going to cut them. Yeah. So they have some players at corner. They have players up front. I think their interior offensive line needs work. And then the,

the big elephant in the room with Seattle again is how far can Gino take them? And it's a weird conversation because Gino just had his best game not only of his season arguably of his career against Dallas honestly like if Tyler Lockett catches that ball that was like thrown with so much perfect anticipation the game might even look different but Gino has not had the same season he had last year and it goes back to the fact of when Seattle gets hit with a little adversity on their offensive line or running back like can Gino rise above it so and these are all legit questions these aren't me leaning one way or the other so it feels like Seattle that's also a good time to probably draft and develop a quarterback

right like I would keep Gino for next year but I would also think about taking somebody to develop with a little bit more of a higher ceiling depending on where you pick so I think Seattle's in a weird spot because they play in a division with an absolute juggernaut in the 49ers so that's a tough place to be right away yeah that's the really tough place to be all right but this isn't a bad roster they've drafted as they really have drafted as well as they could have when you look at like league average drafts Seattle's fine as a drafting team under Schneider right now they're gonna be able to mess around with their money this offseason as Trevor and I

just went over and a lot of their work outside of quarterback is more tailoring than just completely building a foundation, in my opinion. Like they have they have a superstar. They have a star playmaker and Metcalf. They have depth playmakers. They have two viable running backs. They have tackles. The positions they need. You don't need three top 15 picks to solve.

Yeah. But yeah. What do you think of the quarterback situation, Trevor? I like, you know, man, I really do.

When I look at the situation, I think they should give it another year. And I don't know. I agree. The worst place that you could be is mediocre. And with the Seahawks last year, what did they finish? Nine and eight made the playoffs and lost in the wild card.

And maybe you finish eight, nine this year. Maybe you make the playoffs. Maybe you don't. I mean, that's not mediocre, but it's not really where you want to be. You're basically like a competing team, but you're almost like a participation trophy, kind of a competing team. Like you're not really a threat and nobody really wants that feeling. I understand it, but I agree with you.

If they would have drafted worse, I think I'd be more inclined to just hit the rebuild button. But if you can move on from Jamal Adams, the free agents that you have upcoming aren't really detrimental to your team. You have a lot of these guys, a lot of these core players around for even the next two years after this.

And so if you still believe in Geno and I still think that Geno Smith can be a playoff caliber quarterback in this league, I I'd probably give it another year. I'm not taking this thing down to the studs. I'm not hitting like total panic. I'd rather go through free agency, see what you can do.

See how you can retool the roster and go through another draft class. Maybe really hit it big with your first and second round picks this year. So that's where I am at with seattle i i wouldn't be i wouldn't be hitting the panic button and totally redoing things so i think it's a nice place to be when you have a serviceable starting quarterback but you also have a roster that is built for a quarterback a young quarterback to come in and play well. Like that's a good place. Yeah, but. Oh, wait. Okay.

Every team in the NFL that is doing this thing, like look at the Panthers this year. They just draft a guy and just throw a guy in to the fire right away. Seattle can draft a guy and have him sit behind Gino and develop. And that's not a luxury. A lot of Seattle is not a bad team. See, I wouldn't. I wouldn't do that. So you And that's not a luxury. A lot of Seattle, because Seattle's not a bad team. See, I wouldn't,

I wouldn't do that. So you wouldn't even draft a quarterback. You would just ride this thing out with Gino. Not really. Not in the first two rounds. No, because I'm not saying that I'm saying just in general, I guess if I,

I would take one in the second round, I think if I had the chance, although they traded their second round, obviously, obviously I'll, I'll play the ultimate draft guy trump card and say well you gotta see who's on the board you know right no i mean like obviously i i could say that and it's an easy cop out but in all honesty i look at this seahawks team and again

i maybe i'm looking at it too optimistically i would rather have another year of the last couple of draft classes getting better getting more experienced and you really nailing it with two first round picks that you need edge rusher for sure let's like let's go get another really great edge rusher um and then i don't know maybe another defender depending on how how your free agency period goes i'd rather do that i'd rather give it another year of basically this and a little extra youth juice with this roster and see where it goes. Cause Matthew Stafford ain't getting any younger. Right.

And if Matthew Stafford starts to go downhill or retires, like what is that Rams team? All of a sudden, they're not really that big of a threat. The NFC South is kind of all over the place right now. And basically everybody in the AFC North rebuilding as well. You got a shot. You got a shot to be a legit wild card type of a team.

So that's what I would, that's what I would do if I was Seattle. All right, let's go to the next one. This one is from YouTube comments as well. This is from 007 underscore RC. If you were the Cardinals and ended up winning another game or two, dropping them out of the top three range,

do you still think going wide receiver is the move? Or do you take a tackle with your top position and then a wide receiver with Houston's pick later in the first round? Big fan of your videos. Arizona fans have been loving the mock drafts that you guys have been giving us lately. Big shout out 007. What do you think?

If they're not taking Marvin Harrison Jr., are you thinking about Malik Nabors at five, or are you going, man man we can set it up with paris johnson jr and olu fashanu or joe alt or something like that it's tricky really tricky i think i would specifically for arizona i might lean the tackle and because i think neighbors is i did get through his tape for our wide receiver rankings i mean he's sick he is so good he is so good that is i'm almost annoyed that him and marv are in the same class uh dude him him him and i mean you throw rome in there too i mean like those three wide receivers are just yeah i do think they're watching all three of them i do think there's a those two there's a little gap to rome

but i rome is very talented i have i've had neighbors wide receiver too for a while um i haven't gotten to lsu yet for our like big dude just stupid good i yeah it's not i'm not gonna be shocked when i watch more games of him and he's gonna be good but there's a lot of people that have watched Romo Dunze over the last, I'll say, month. And they're like, oh, yeah, this dude and Marv. And I'm like, y'all better be throwing Malik Nabors in that conversation because he's also...

Yeah, I think he's going to be wide receiver, too, for this show. But anyways, go ahead. So, yeah, I mean, it's just weird when you look at Arizona. I don't know. It's really tricky. I'd go tackle. I think I'd go tackle. Yeah.

But it's tough because Neighbors is going to be a really highly ranked player for me. But I would take tackle. I would take one of the top two tackles. You know what I might do? And Osford obviously has done this before because in his first year as GM, he was up and down the board trading up and down last year. I'm probably looking to trade back at that point. Like if I'm picking four or five, I am very okay with getting either Malik Neighbors,

Romo Dunze, one of the corners that is there, perhaps Jerzon Newton. And then you also, you got to remember, we got JC Latham and Talize Fuaga in this class too to play right tackle and you can kick paris johnson jr over to left tackle where he played at ohio state so to me if if if it's not marvin harrison jr for the cardinals i'm probably trading back i'm probably doing what i did last year and i'm acquiring future draft capital for that so that's what i would do i think it's all fair all right we'll have a lot arizona will be a fun team to diagnose when the dust settles all right we will get we will get back to the uh

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Policies issued by Western Southern Life Insurance Company. Not available in certain states. Prices subject to underwriting and health questions. All right, back to the listener voicemails. Hey, guys. My name's Danny. 6'5", 260, absolute unit and co-host in waiting. I got a question for both of you.

Who is one player that either of you see right now as a potential riser, whether it be the combine or future tape evaluation or pro day or anything like that, that isn't really getting as much hype right now? Shout out, Danny. Got a lot of love from like that, that isn't really getting as much hype right now. Shout out Danny. Got a lot of love from the Dan's the Danny's also. Yeah. Like you said, co-hosting waiting.

Okay. Six, five to 60. Jesus stacked tractor trailer, just walking around on two legs. You need to be playing off ball linebacker for Alabama. That's what you need to be doing, Danny.

All right. So what do you think? Players who are potential risers over the next let's say month or so early part of draft season okay let's go through I think uh Brian Thomas the wide receiver on LSU sure I when I think risers I always try to think of you did you watch him along with neighbors I'm not done yet but I did start oh okay okay I wondered if you were have you had done it by school yet okay all risers i always try to think of you did you watch him along with neighbors i'm not done yet but i did start oh okay okay i wondered if you were have you had done it by school yet okay all right yeah that's why that's where i i'm still on lsu okay uh but i am doing it by school like it sounds like you are as well yes yeah i am it's just it's easy it's easier because you're watching the same

offense right and i don't have to like you know change it this the search filter and you know yeah we're just we're trying to we're trying to be efficient i'm trying to watch as many players as possible we got takes to get out but he could fly and it's a great wide receiver class so he's kind of got lost in the shuffle a little bit it's been my argument for troy franklin who i think will rise as well um oh man i'm trying to think i don't really i haven't found that guy to the running backs yet yeah i don't love this running back group and we'll get it would we actually have a running back question in a second it's a lot of guys i've i've already talked about tj tampa he's gonna test really really well nobody's been talking about him all year he's gonna have a great process wherever you think he's going now he'll go earlier i would say that's about it for me right now trevor where are you at i got three okay i think

are gonna be risers or fan favorites uh i didn't i haven't seen if the guys are like returning or hitting the transfer portal or something so if they have give me a break all right like it literally like everybody's in the everybody's in the portal i sorry sorry to keep up with it this is the hardest time of year dude i do you see princely umami ellen from florida is in the portal he's no he didn't declare for the draft he went in the portal what i don't do did that just happen this week it happened this morning okay i was gonna say what i thought he was a lock to be in this draft he had i i was loving his tape this year he's a top 60 player for me

and it's it's a definite he's not going in the draft oh he said he's going in the portal so obviously like you have time to change your mind he's got what into the deck yeah you could feel out your 15th or something i mean until somebody gives them what like three mil right for nil but yeah anyways um wow okay that's a good example of draft is different these days folks it is so jonah ellis from uh hell yes is somebody who you and i watched his tape and we talked about him earlier um for a risers episode of the show and man the dude is just like a he's a pass rush technician man i mean he's not somebody who's gonna really impress you with he's not gonna win the off the bus test right when the guy gets off the bus you're not gonna like be in fear be like all right we're it's it's over we're losing this one but he's like la to la to where he just has a knack for

getting in the backfield he just understands pass rushing so well so he's somebody who I think people are going to take a look at his tape and his production in the backfield this year and be like, that dude's going to be an NFL pass rusher. So I think that he's one of them. Sort of a similar light. Braden Fisk from Florida State mentioned him very recently. He's somebody who I watched over the last couple of weeks. And the speed that he plays with from a three technique

defensive tackle spot I think he is going to the senior bowl and he's going to be somebody who like he is going to be the fan favorite he's going to be Twitter's favorite player at the senior bowl because he's absolutely going to demolish a bunch of these interior offensive linemen because he's that damn quick with it yeah so he'll get into the backfield he'll be a one-on-one uh rep monster you know he'll win all the highlights and so he's another one and then i'll shout out penn state edge rusher we always talk about chop robinson but ediza isaac on the other side yep a more consistent football player man now he i think he tore his acl in 2021 so last year he was kind of getting back from that getting back to be fully

healthy but this year man he is strong in the line scrimmage he can consistently get in the backfield as well he is a more steady edge presence type of a player and as people watch chop robinson i think they're gonna look over to adizah isaac and they're gonna be like okay who's 20 like who is who is this guy on the other side because he's a ball player as well and i think that he is he had a really nice season every time i would go check what Chop has done week after week, and I've said this before, I've stayed on top of the Big Ten more than any other conference this year because NBC has rights to the Big Ten, so I was doing a ton of content for them with that.

And Isaac felt like he was so consistent week after week. So that's a really good call. Him and Chris Roswell on Alabama. They were like the Robins to their Batmans on their fronts. Right. You're like, we watched both of them over summer Trevor. They were on summer scouting,

but they don't get that kind of love at all because of who they play with. And, and you're going to get people by calling it now that are gonna go i like isaac over robinson like you're gonna you're gonna get people who are gonna get to that point i don't know if i'm gonna get to that point i don't know if you're gonna get to that point but people are gonna get to that point i had one more by the way and i'm literally making sure that he didn't go in the transfer portal now i got you spooked oh my god it, it's haunting me. I'm seeing that, uh,

he, he could come back to school. They don't know yet, but Louisville's Ashton Jalati. Have you seen any of him? No. Yeah. He's his tape this year was six foot three,

two 70 junior edge rusher for Louisville. I mean, I know I have not seen him 59 pressures stout against the run. Dude was phenomenal this year if he declares he'll be a huge riser okay all right next question hey connor and trevor this is jeff from charlotte north carolina and i got a hypothetical question for y'all so would you rather be stuck in a spaceship at the furthest part of the galaxy for 30 days, or would you rather be stuck in a submarine at the deepest depths of the ocean for 30 days? Basically, are you more scared of the ocean?

Are you more scared of what's out there in space? Let me know, guys. All right. Shout out, Jeff, fromlotte north carolina right here in my neighborhood great little fun question a little bit of a curveball here we got more football questions we promise so you know we could take a break hard hardcore for the football we podcast for like four hours a week on this show we could have one we could have fun for three minutes all right 30 straight days the furthest depths of space

or the furthest depths of the ocean which one you survive at the end yeah i've got to imagine right i mean it's not like i was just curious and then you die it doesn't change my it's a fair question like i either run out of oxygen underwater i run out of oxygen in space jeff's basically just like asking hey how do you want to die right okay so we're thinking you survive um okay so this one for me just get teleported back to your house at the end of 30 days all right you wake up from this nightmare it's spaced for me by a mile um i and i i love the ocean like i'm one of those maniacs that i'll swim out really far i don't think about getting eaten by a shark maybe one day this this sound bite will be really funny to tweet out when i do in fact get eaten by a shark but old takes

exposed yeah by a shark yeah you're probably wondering how i got here it's uh but in all seriousness i don't have that fear of the ocean. But the deep sea is a totally different animal. Like I think I think about this, you know, everybody thought like that whole trend of men think about the Roman Empire like eight times a week or whatever it is. And I yeah, I didn't get it all because I don't. I think about the depths of the ocean multiple times a week. Like sometimes I'll sit on YouTube and watch videos that are like animated illustrations of the depth of the ocean multiple times a week like sometimes i'll sit on youtube and watch videos that are like animated illustrations of the depth of the sea and they show you like different heights

of things yeah because i think it's amazing because number one what is it like 98 of it we don't know anything about they're like they're legitimately could be dinosaurs at the bottom of the ocean like sea dinosaurs at the bottom of the ocean, like sea dinosaurs at the bottom of the ocean. So you have to realize it's pitch black. You're underwater. There's just no chance in hell I'm picking being submerged in the ocean. It's space 10 out of 10. And I understand space is probably pretty dark, but not as dark as the bottom of the ocean.

This isn't close to me. I also, not that long ago, I project tell mary great space book i won't spoil it for anyone but it made me think of that book as well i think what's i think on a spaceship i have more accommodations and comfort we're in a submarine like i picture myself like holding my knees like against the wall like a spaceship you could walk around you probably have a laptop well i assume the accommodations for the same are gonna be like yeah yeah yeah like it's cool like it's like you can't you can't die so it's probably just like glass all around so you can see a bunch of stuff i don't look still space there's no way i have zero desire to get in a submarine zero desire pure torture i would go to space i would go to space it's just the the money aspect

i'd never get in a submarine like that. No. Not going to happen. No. Not going to happen. All right. Great question. Next one. Hey, Connor and Trevor.

This is Alex from Dearborn, Michigan. I got two questions for you. Feel free to answer what you want. First one is if you could take one player from each of your divisional rivals, who would you take and why? For me, I'm a steelers fan from pittsburgh originally so i'm thinking joe burrow to replace kenny pickett even though i love him i gotta admit he's better um taking miles garrett from the browns to put him with tj watt because

two defensive player of the year candidates on the same team gotta love that and then probably just marlon humphrey from the ravens don't't really need Lamar Jackson if I have Burrow now. And then boosting that secondary. And then my second question in homage to the Choose Two to Defend You from the No Notes episode. I'm looking for your squirrel threshold. So what is the maximum number of squirrels you think you could take in a fight before you would get out of hand? So let me know what you think. Thank you.

Shout out to Alex for the question. Squirrel threshold. That's going in the YouTube title. Who was the squirrel threshold? Yeah. All right. Player from your division. Josh Allen.

Or from each team in your division. Josh Allen. There's no... Okay, so you're only picking one? You're just going with one? Yeah. There's no runner-up. Josh Allen on the Jets. Josh Allen on the Jets.

Josh Allen on the Jets. The Jets are at least in the AFC title game. Yeah. At least? It's not even... If I pick any of the wide receivers in the division, it just becomes the Penny Sewell, Jamar Chase meme from that draft.

Right. So no, it's Josh Allen. There's no, I had no explanation needed. It's not even close. I think my answer is Brian Burns from the Panthers. Ooh, I think. Yeah. You have a real shit division to pick from.

Oh, I didn't think of that. Yeah. Appreciate it. I mean, as bad as like the jets and the Patriots are right now, there are stars in the AFC East. Yeah, I mean, Ryan is a South. If I picked Ryan Ramchick, then I got to have Tristan Wurst and Ryan Ramchick, which is nice. But Luke Gadecki has been fine.

Not that he's Ryan Ramchick, but you know what I'm saying? I think I think it's Burns. I think you wouldn't take Jameis Winston. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to watch him in a box uniform. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forgot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to watch him in a Bucs uniform?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've never done that before. Yeah, he's definitely never played for the Bucs. Let me, yeah, let me do that. Let me bring him back for sure. No, I think it's Brian Burns. Yeah, Burns is a stud. Oh, squirrel question.

Squirrel threshold. I think it's low, right? No. Bro, come on. Be real about it. What's low, right? No. Bro, come on. Be real about it. What's low? These squirrels are out here like rabid. Okay, so we're.

They're trying to kill you. They're trying to kill you. So they're gnawing at us like they do on acorns. Right. Okay. And it's just me. That stinks. If they let us bring our dogs.

Is your dog a squirrel chaser? I mean, he yeah he is he is but my my dog's also like 25 pounds so if like one squirrel if like two squirrels get a hold of him my guy's done so all right so he is all bark oh man ain't no hunting dog what is is the is the over under set at eight and a half dude i'm you're lower yeah you're really low bro like five this is survival would you think about this this isn't like you're just like gnawing them away this is for your life you're biting yeah you're trying to pop heads off so are they they're just biting they're not very useful animals their arms are like this thin.

They're trying to kill you. True. I think it's eight and a half, and I'll take the under. I'll say, yeah, six is like. I was going to say seven. Six is, yeah, like where I'm at. It's going to be really annoying

when they start biting, when four are biting your legs. You don't respect the squirrels enough. I don't. I'd be much more scared of the rats, especially here in New York. Squirrels are. Yeah, I'll say six to seven. You're right.

Yeah, there we go. All right, all right. We came to the conclusion. Squirrel threshold. All right, next to us, squirrel threshold. What's up? This is Devin. My question is what picked us the first running back come off the board?

I know this is a weak class. We've got some injuries pour one out for jonathan brooks but uh we could not have one come off the board in the first 60 picks i know your boy mike renner doesn't even have one in the top 75 but he might just have pff brain and think running backs don't have value so i want you guys to make your selection for in april when we see the first rb come off the board all right shout out devon for the question man this is one that a lot of people are asking right when does the first running back come off the board so let's see uh let me look at the big board here i'm trying to remember what the highest ranked running back is for me.

So Jonathan Brooks is the highest ranked running back for me right now, and he's 60th. After him, it's Blake Corum at 64, Trey Benson's at 66, and then it's a big drop for me. It goes down to Donovan Edwards at 87. Man, you're really low on Travion. Oh, yeah, I have not re-watched travion so he's like right around 100 for me but then it's like bucky irving and audrey guesstime like they're right around 100 because you got to think about like what pick 100 is right pick 100s okay

third or fourth round pick right no that's kind of what i'm saying here with these running backs is you could have a handful of them going like the third round but i have not rewatched travion yet to be fair so uh he might be somebody who's a lot higher but general answer to the question late second round i was just gonna say i was gonna set the over under for this at pick 60. That's the Cowboys in the second round. Yeah, because who would pick? There's just so many premium position players in this class.

It's hard to think that you would take a running back over them. I think Jonathan Brooks would have been basically the only one who would have been alluring enough to do it. And now he's hurt. Corum, I like, but I mean, Corum didn't have nearly as good of a year individually as he did last year. I think he's still going to be a pro. Yeah, I think he's still going to be like a pro running back.

Don't get me wrong. Sure. The force missed tackles are a lot lower. The yards after contact are a lot lower. It's just, it wasn't, it's not the year to kind of like puff out your chest and say yeah i'm a running back that could succeed no matter what the system no matter what the offensive line yeah i think there's a chance we might not get it to the third round there is a chance it's going to be really interesting this year when When's the, I'm actually looking this up now. The lowest that a back has been picked first.

Last year was eight. The year before was 36 year before it was 24 year before it was 32. Then 24 to Saquon. Shout out letter for net number four. Shout out. Zekiel Elliott at four. It's crazy, isn't it? So Zeke went four. Shout out Zekiel Elliott at four. God, it's crazy, isn't it?

So Zeke went four and then Derrick Henry didn't go until 45. Gurley at 10. Here we go. 2014, Bishop Sankey was the first running back off the board, pick number 54. And then it was Jeremy Hill immediately after at 55. And then it was Carlos Hyde almost immediately after at 57. That's sanky. Shout out Washington.

Great. Yeah. Great. That feels like what we're dealing with here. I think we're definitely close to it. Yeah, I agree. That would be my answer to that question. This is the last one from the Speak Pipes.

What's up, fellas? I've got a question about wide receiver positional value this year. For what feels like the billionth year in a row, we have a super stacked wide receiver draft class coming up. And while we've got top guys like Marvin Harris and Malik neighbors that people think are going to be instant difference makers, to me, I feel like when the class has so many potential quality players, teams would be better off waiting until day two or even day three to address that need.

We've seen guys like Pukunukua and tank dell take off this year being third and fifth round picks so do you think teams that have kind of that late first round pick and have a need at wide receiver would be better off waiting until later in the drafts to address that need and maybe focus on a thinner position group in the first round or do you think some of the fifth or sixth best wide receivers like xavier laguette or xavier worthy any guy that falls in that group is worth it in the first round all right what do we think connor wide receiver value discussion here with it with the group as deep and as talented as it is does that deter you would that deter you personally from taking a wide receiver in the first round and then another side of the question is do you think the NFL

will be more hesitant to take a receiver in the first round given how deep the class is I think for the top at least two guys no like with Marv and neighbors they're so gifted i mean you're looking at that chase and waddle kind of draft in my eyes but and then there'll be varying opinions on rome who i think is really good but davante went right after that too right sure yeah i think was he top 10 was he nine he was nine was he right after that i thought he was after that he was 10 he top 10? Was he nine? He was nine. Was he right after that? I thought he was after that. He was 10. He's 10. Okay.

There we go. All right. Now I will push back. And I know he was just saying it like, you know, quickly because somebody tweeted this at me. They're like every year, there's a good wide receiver class.

And I don't think that's, this is a dip. There's a difference last year. Number one. Yes. Guys went in the first round, but last year was a down draft in general. And the first wide receiver wasn't taken till 20th yes 2022 was stacked 2021 was stacked 2020 jefferson and cd turned into studs but there was also three big

misses in the first round and And then 19 wasn't good. It ended up having really good players, but like the way it was evaluated, nobody went until pick 25 with Hollywood Brown. So I think I don't want to do the thing, fall victim of the, you could always get a good wide receiver. You can't always get Marvin Harrison Jr.

You can't always get Malik neighbors. But I think it's a really good question. And I think this is more what the question was pointing towards. Say you're picking 16 and you can get Keon Coleman, right? Or I don't know, another like later in the draft, the Mecca Buka. And you're like, man, maybe I'll just wait. And I like the other guys better maybe i like a johnny wilson uh let me pull up my rankings real quick you know maybe i look at somebody like troy

franklin if he slides ad mitchell if he slides a little bit you know what i'm saying trevor like it's i think it depends on your team and your scheme. Look what the Rams just did with Puka Nakua. Right. The Rams didn't need a freak show at wide receiver. They needed a technician. And Puka's been better than anybody could have seen coming. But I definitely think it's team specific.

But I also think it's play specific. I have no problem using a top five pick on Marvin Harrison Jr. or Malik Neighbors because I think those guys are just going to change the field the second they step on the turf. specific i have no problem using a top five pick on marvin harrison jr malik neighbors because i think those guys are just going to change the field the second they step on the turf i i i agree with you i i don't really have any reservations about using a first round pick on a playmaker i really don't not in this era when we yeah when we talk about premium positions for the longest time i feel as though premium positions were just quarterback pass protectors pass rushers like those were the three premium positions in today's league you are throwing corner like top tier

corner and top tier wide receiver in you really are i think that that's that's something that that we have seen the league draft over the last couple of years like i'm looking at it right now and it's like all right this group's really deep there's nothing over the last four drafts that tell us that the nfl is slowing down we had four guys in the first round last year we had six the year before that we had five the year before that we had six the year before that that's just first round wide receivers the league's not slowing down the league's not cooling down and it's especially not going to cool down for this wide receiver class. So I actually don't think that they would take that strategy and say, oh, yeah, we can get one later. You start to love one of them throughout this process.

You start to love one of these guys, like you said, or a handful of these guys. And I just don't think I don't think you're going to you're going to see any sort of slowdown. So, all right, we got one more question and it's a doozy. It's a good one. If you stuck around to the end of the podcast, this is a fun one. I think it's probably going to be in the title to make sure that you guys stay

to the end of podcast. See how it works here. We're businessmen. But before we get to that, we got to talk to you about our friends over at prize pick. So our producer, Eli, one of our producers,

Eli has been in the lab cooking up an entry here. Connor, we have an explanation for why this is going to hit. It's multiple entries that you guys can bet on. TJ Hawkinson, more than 52.5 receiving yards this week. Nego Collins, more than 57.5 receiving yards this week. And then Adam Thielen, more 55 and a half yards this week. If all three of them hit, Oh buddy,

you're cashing out. This is what Eli said. Nico Collins cleared this number, the last three games. And I expect him to see more targets with tank Dell, the tank Dell done for the year. Hawkinson's gone over this line in five of his six games. Then you put up the yards against the Raiders defense.

It ranks 19th in coverage grade this year. Thielen not gone over this line recently, but he is young's favorite target. And I think they'll get more involved Raiders defense. It ranks 19th in coverage grade this year. Thielen not going over this line recently, but he is Young's favorite target. And I think they'll get more involved versus Saints defense, who just got wrecked by the Lions. Boom, there you go. Folks, if you don't know what prize picks is,

basically you take two to six entries, you bring them all together and however many of them hit, you're cashing out. You went up to 25 times your money. Plus, if you are a fan of multiple sports, with basketball season here, you can combo pick projections across football and basketball. Say LeBron James, Travis Kelsey, over 10.5 receptions plus three-pointers made.

I mean, if you're really in on this and you think you're sharp about a couple of different sports, it's a fun way to get in on it. PricePix is the only place that does that. They're also the only place that has a reboot policy, so your entries can stay in play even if one of your players gets hurt. For the rebooted basketball and football games, if your player exits the first half, doesn't return for the second, that player is automatically rebooted.

PricePix is the only daily fantasy sport platform with an injury insurance policy. Go to PricePix.com, backslash NFLSC, use the promo code NFLSC for a first deposit match up to $100. Again, that's PricePix.comcom backslash NFLSC. Use the promo code NFLSC for a first deposit match up to $100. Again, that's pricepicks.com backslash NFLSC. Promo code NFLSC for a first deposit match up to $100. All right, Connor. Last question for the mailbag episode.

This is from Daniel Oliver on the YouTube comments. Hey, guys. Mailbag question for you. Daniel from Canada. Wow, love. Shout out across the board. Absolutely love the show. My question is, what do you think the Bears could get

if they decided to trade the number one overall pick? Fun hypothetical. Very fun hypothetical. Stressful hypothetical. It is. I try i think about this a lot because i don't i don't know if you realize this but in our youtube comments a lot of people thinking no no you're sticking with just i i know i see this all the time you're sticking with just fields you're absolutely trading the pick you're getting a king's ransom so what is that king's

ransom connor what do you think one i still don't believe they're doing that, but I see a lot of people holding on. So let's say that they are right and we are wrong. What is the King's ransom? Well, number one, the value of the number one pick is always based on if the value of the player, an undisputed player at the top of the draft. And this draft has two top tier quarterback prospects and caleb williams and drake may so this pick has a ton of value based on that alone is that

it has quarterbacks yep so and you don't want too big of a supply right trevor if there was five quarterbacks that were graded closely that would hurt you that hurt you yeah but in this one there's two top quarterbacks that are graded closely so number one number two pick of an immense attentive value and unlike us teams might prefer one over the other so the number i was gonna say i think it helps that not only do you have two they're very different right i mean there's very different types of quarterbacks different types of players there's going to be some teams that are in on one of them and not on the other so i think that it's almost the perfect scenario to cook up maximum value for this number one overall pick if chicago ends up trading it that's exactly right so when you factor in all that man the question is you need to also know

where are we going right you can't just say like the pick is worth three ones, two twos and a player. Where are you going? So let's say. So last year, Panthers moved up nine, nine to one. They traded two first round picks, a second round pick and DJ Moore to do it.

So that's one example. In 2016 for the Jared Goff trade, the Rams jumped from 15 to one and gave up a first round pick in a second round pick in the draft that year. Oh shoot. Another second round pick in the draft that year, a third round pick in the draft that year. And then a, and the next year's first round pick and third round pick so it's just a ton of different picks to get from 15 all the way to one the tricky part is you also have like

the trey lance trade where san francisco jumps up a bunch but then it's just three straight first round picks to get from 12 to 3 like you're not even getting a one and you knew that two quarterbacks were going to come off the board right so that one also kind of skews things i have to believe that given how we preface this conversation with the two quarterbacks and the two different quarterbacks at that i think the starting point is three ones. I do. I think it's three first round picks. And maybe if you're Washington picking it for, you know, maybe you say like, okay, we're giving you number four.

So we'll give you number four in a first round pick next year, but then let's figure out, okay, either you get another second round pick this year, you get a second and a third next year. We're not giving you a third one. So maybe there's a little bit of wiggle room there, but God, the team at number one holds all that power because Washington just go, all right, we're not going to pay it. And Chicago goes, okay, somebody else will

because there probably is going to be somebody else who's going to pay that price. So to me, I just feel like the conversation is going to start at three ones. I think so. I think this pick would just be because once again, if you think the quarterback you like between Caleb and Drake is going to be a star and you're right, it doesn't matter. Right.

It doesn't matter at all, which is probably Carolina's thought with Bryce, right? They said they're right. It doesn't matter. Right. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all, which is probably Carolina's thought with Bryce, right? They said they're open as they're hoping it's the same thought process. And things always look differently in hindsight, but that's why the price ultimately doesn't matter. Now, I think the interesting conversation is, does that make sense for Chicago?

Cause the people will be like, well, he could build this incredible team around Justin Fields. But I think at the end of the day, you have to take your quarterback. If you're Ryan poles and right. Cause if it, if it,

if it didn't work with fields after all that you're fired. Well, it's just kind of like what we talked about in the mock draft episode. It gets tricky because fields goes into his contract situation next year and and they still don't know they still don't know right and they've got the they picked up the fifth year on him right i would assume that they would pick the fifth year because it would have value it would increase his trade value right decision has that hasn't needed to be made yet okay okay it's after this year so

i mean you're gonna pick it up no matter what and essentially you would then have two years to figure it out but man if he looks bad next year you're not going to use that second year so essentially you're basically saying is justin field's going to take the leap into being a playoff caliber quarterback week in and week out not just like flashes not just we've seen some of it like is he is he giving Detroit a run for their money for the division as a quarterback next year because if he's not it's it's hard to argue against resetting that quarterback contract especially when you pick it five you know you you you also pick it five in this draft so the craziest thing is like that's why once again it still doesn't make sense to trade number Especially when you pick at five. You also pick at five in this draft.

That's the craziest thing. That's why, once again, it still doesn't make sense to trade number one. You also have the fifth pick. So you're already getting another great asset in this. Upgrade a quarterback. I don't know if it doesn't make sense. I can't get on board with that. People sell this plan all the time, and I don't know.

We're not there yet. Let us know if you're there. It's worth a lot, though. And let us know, obviously, what you think of all of the answers that we gave here. Big shout-out to everybody who got in on the show, and a huge shout-out also to everybody who sent in some SpeakPipe voicemails that did not quite get in on the show. We're going to be doing this a lot.

I want to because it's fun. It's fun to hear you guys. It's fun to hear the voicemails. Obviously, read the YouTube comments. And we say all the time, this podcast is not just us talking to you guys. It's a full draft community. That's when it's the most fun

we can have these conversations. Let us know what you thought of the episode, the shows, the answers, all the good stuff. Best way to do that, YouTube comments of this show, youtube.com backslash NFL stock exchange. You can hit us up on Twitter and Instagram. Although Connor only checks it like once a month.

So you might be on request. I'll be better after the new year, new year's resolution. I'm all for December at Connor J. Rogers. Yeah. It's holiday, baby.

We're on holiday at Connor J. Rogers at Tampa Bay trade. That's the best way to do that. Connor, you got anything else before we get out of here? No fun show. Love the voicemails. Love the YouTube comments.. That's the best way to do that. Connor, you got anything else before we get out of here? No fun show. Love the voicemails. Love the YouTube comments.

You guys are the best. Really appreciate it. Really creative topics as well. I mean, Trevor and I were joking before the air is yes, it's called a mailbag, but really it's just you building the rundown of our show. If we didn't do it this way, we would do different topics, but it's cool when you actually make the topics of the show. Plenty were draft centric, plenty were fun, crazy, NFL centric, college centric.

It's really your way to get in on the show. And that's always the goal of the show, right, Trevor? Yeah, we have mentioned that we're getting into a lot of regular season film rechecks. This week we're doing wide receiver because we want the first episode to be wide receiver because we know that that's what a lot of people like to talk about i'm not sure if that's going to be monday or wednesday of next week but we want to bring that to you guys soon so be on the lookout for that and then uh yeah maybe we'll keep the other episode whether it's monday or wednesday up for a wild card maybe you guys can pick the rundown for us again we'll see i'm trevor

sycamore that is connor rogers thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the nfl stock exchange podcast we'll see you next week I'm Trevor Sycamore. That is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. We'll see you next week. Bye.