NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 245. Defensive Tackle Rankings For 2024 NFL Draft

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their top 10 defensive tackle rankings for the 2024 NFL Draft. The two dig into each of their different lists, where they could see these guys drafted, and how big of an impact they could have.

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we're ranking the interior defensive linemen

for the 2024 NFL Draft. Y'all know the drill. We'll give you our top tens. Each of our lists, we are finding out for the first time. I don't know what Conor's got in his top 10, but he doesn't know what I have in my top 10. So the reactions are very fun. The conversations are very organic because we're learning these things for the first time i don't know what connor's got in his top 10 he doesn't know what i have in my top 10 so the reactions are very fun the conversations are very organic because we're learning these things for the first time we'd love to hear from you guys as well from what

rankings end up being i'm trevor sycamore with me as always is connor rogers let's ring the bell welcome to the opening melody NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers joining you all for a midweek episode of the podcast. No alliteration here. No mock draft Monday. So we're not doing a mock draft here today. We're getting back to the player ranking stuff.

We want to make sure that we knock out as many of these bad boys as we possibly can before the draft in April. So you guys have a good idea of what we think of these players when you see them on draft night before we give you the recap episode so today we are on to interior defensive line there's a couple of guys at the very top that i'm very very excited about but we will give you our top tens here in this episode just like we have previously and then we'll give you some honorable mentions too we might have a little bit of wiggle room here at the end of the podcast to give you those honorable mentions shout outs Connor how we doing today my friend I'm good man we're here on interior d-line Wednesday

it doesn't really go like really rolls off the tongue right which is very apt for this defensive line class that's just all over the place there's obviously some guys that are first rounders there's a lot of different roles on day two and day three it's um i'll be honest it was a group that going in because we've seen the top guys a million times now where i like we weren't gonna go through them through this process but going in i had really low expectations because nobody talks about this interior defensive line class and i came away i guess the bar was low, but above it, because I think these guys aren't bad players. They're just role-defined players,

which is really important when watching these guys. We've been spoiled with a lot of other position groups that so many guys can do everything. And I think with the interior defensive line class, especially in this era of football where some positions get smaller, lighter, more athletic, there's just a lot of different flavors. So it'll be a really unique group to go through. So before we get it kicked off, just selfishly, do you have Brandon Dorlis from Oregon in this group or do you have him in edges? I ended up putting him with the edges.

OK, so do i because even even though i like him right probably the most on the interior i don't know if he's gonna want to carry the weight to play on the inside it is it's the toughest one right honestly he it's that was really hard and this was something i i did go through both of these groups at the same time and ended up moving him over to the edge. Just when I had him with the D line, I think when we had this combo a couple months ago, we were like,

ah, you know, cause I think we, when we did edge rankings really, really early, we're like, we'll do doorless with D line. And then now we're doing D line and we're like,

yeah, I'm putting doorless back with edge ranking. So it's a really good question because he's a guy that at two 83 for the combine, good athlete. It's, it's a really good question because he's a guy that at 283 for the combine good athlete it's it's gonna be like it's up to the coaching staff that takes him i i bet you could pull every team in the league and it would be almost a 50 50 split of how they use them yeah because i'm looking at mock draftable right now 283 pounds that's fifth percentile for a defensive

tackle and it would be 86th percentile for a defensive end so you're truly like you are right there in the middle so honestly i just think that this guy's probably a three four defensive end right so i'm just gonna kind of rank him with the edge rushers but um i don't think i don't think we talked about him on the edge rusher show and so i wonder i wondered if people were gonna like bring him up like, hey, where's Brandon Dorlis? I like Dorlis a good amount. He's one of the guys in this D-line class who I really like a combination

of a lot of the things that he does. I just don't know. Are you explosive enough to be really a big difference maker as an edge player? Are you big enough to be a difference maker on the interior? I like his skill set the most for inside, but he'd have to gain weight. Like he'd have to get into the two nineties at least. And I, with him kind of losing weight for this process, I feel like he doesn't want to do that. So I agree with you. It's going to be fascinating to see where he ends up falling. It is. And it's funny because I'm looking at him. He's 71st on my big board. I just dropped

a top one 50 on NBC sports. Go check it out. Go read it. Go get him some clicks. Thank you. Please keep my lights on right now. He would have been 7th for me today in this group. He's, I think, 11th out of my edge players. Yeah, I think he would have been. It's strange. He would have been 6th or 7th for me in this group. Because I obviously judge interior offensive, defensive linemen, sorry, and edge rushers a little bit differently. So the categories are a little bit different with how I would grade their traits

and their production on film. But he would be right around that same range for me, just so everybody who might ask about Dorlis gets an answer. That's where we're at. So, hey, let's do what we did over the last couple of positions. I feel like that was a good format. Let's go 10 through 6 decently fast. You can rattle them off and give a couple of sentences about each.

We'll go back and forth about that. I'll do the same thing, and then we'll slow down, and we'll go individually for 5 through 1. Okay, so 10 for me was LSU's Makai Wingo. Nice! five through one. Okay. So 10 for me was LSU's Makai Wingo. Nice. Nine for me, Fabian Lovett, senior Florida state,

eight Dwayne Carter from Duke, seven Rook Arororo from Clemson. And then six is Michael Hall from Ohio state. So, um, I will get right out in front of this. I had Makai Wingo over his teammate, Mason Smith. I do too.

If you told someone that two years ago, they would think you're out of your mind. It is wild how we got here. So do you want to jump right into our discussion here, Trevor? Or do you want to read yours off because they're close enough and we'll talk about players? They are going to be close enough. Once again, like, I don't know Connor's list. He doesn't know mine, but it's, there's not going to be a lot of variants. I don't think with interior defensive line.

So there are a lot of similar names, but I did just want to talk about some of kind of what you said there. When I was going through interior defensive line what was very interesting to me is i thought back to summer scouting and when i go to summer scouting and i go to build the database for the players that we're going to watch for summer scouting or at least on my end i look at the pff grades like i look at some guys who played really well who returned obviously who are draft eligible and so i take that into account but there's a lot of other lists that you could find out there just by

googling and there's some there's some other lists that we get as well but a lot of the players that i felt like we were seeing on interior defensive line michael hall jr was like dt1 for some people right mason smith was dt1 for some people and position, more than a lot of the others, I feel like, was really based on unrealized traits. And those players that I felt dominated the top five of summer scouting from this position, outside of Johnny Newton, are not really in the top five here as we're a month out before the draft. And so like, I just kind of wanted to bring that up and hear what you thought about

that. Like this position specifically, I felt was a letdown seems harsh, but like let down from, from what I feel like these guys, the billing of these guys, it's not their fault. I feel like it was a little unfair for that, but it just feels very different where we were in summer scouting versus where they are on the list here as we're getting a couple of weeks towards the draft. I think so. I mean, Newton obviously was the guy and he didn't, you know, we'll get there,

but yeah, Smith. I mean, I'll say it right now. Mason Smith and Leonard Taylor. Oh, Leonard Taylor. Yes. Were they were supposed to be top 10 picks when they got to school and when they flashed. And they are not in my top 10 defensive linemen in a class that leaves a lot to be desired. And then Nazir Stackhouse went back to school.

He was a pretty big name over summer. Yeah, but even like, I know you were big on him because he's a good run defender. But he probably should have went back to school. That's the thing. Again, he was a top five for these interior defensive line rankings. He's this big-ass dude in the middle of Georgia's defense. You obviously know that he's talented. But again, this is kind of unfair to him.

But people talked about him like, oh, next in line for Jordan Davis. And when he wasn't that, I think that people were disappointed and he probably got a draft grade that he wasn't super happy with, so he goes back to school. So, again, like that was another name. I'm glad that you mentioned him and Leonard Taylor as well because that felt like it was most of the top five. Michael Hall Jr., Mason Smith, Leonard Taylor, taylor nazir stackhouse and i have another

one who's the other one me and you were not high on this guy over summer and i remember we were big outliers mckinley jackson none of those guys are in my top five or most of them are not in my top 10 right that's what's crazy like he had fat grades coming out of something. I mean, we're I remember because we always we always, you know, get the list. And it's a good guy to be like who you really have to watch. You don't have to agree. Clearly, we don't. I'll tell you right now, our summer scouting rankings are way different than a lot of different services. Yes. Grades and team summer grades and all that all that stuff.

But it's a good source to be like okay i have to watch this guy yeah and yeah that you know he didn't make my top 10 i remember now now that you mentioned that i totally remember mckinley was extremely high on a couple of yep scouting databases and i remember the two of us watching it again i just i i i wanted to say it to start the podcast because I thought about that so many times when I watch these guys I was like Connor and I did not love any of these players that did not end up being in our top five and I don't say that's like toot our own horn or anything it's just it's more of it's almost never this different right that's exactly right at least like a couple of players make it right

it felt like everybody who was projected in the top five out again outside of johnny newton and even johnny newton it felt like was getting slept on over these guys who had better traits right better traits crazy crazy anyways uh talk to me about love it because i haven't watched him yet i know i'm bad i'm sorry uh out there, he will be in the draft guide. I'll get him. But Connor will give you the full scouting report right now to hold you guys over. Yes, I wrote Lovett up.

I really like him for what he is. He's 6'4", 3'14". I wrote, A large, well-built, two-gapping run clogger. Lovett does early down and goal line work that is often underappreciated. He brings toughness, great effort as a player that can handle the three tech shade nose and nose tackle responsibilities.

He lacks burst to impact the game as a pass rusher, but he's a pro ready run defender that makes life easier on his teammates in the front seven. I had a fourth round grade on him. I love it is just that guy that you just can lean on to eat space and be a tough guy in the trenches and to not get moved off the point of attack and to redirect the run game to his teammates, open up matchups for his teammates. I was really pleasantly surprised with him because I walked away with knowing he's not going to be in my top five ideals in a okay, not great class, but I'm drafting him for an early down role that I'm very confident in him handling.

So it's just, it's fun to watch a guy like him that plays so strong and is so hard to move off the ball and maximizes his snaps in that very defined early down role. Yeah, there's a couple of players in this list that are pretty specialized, I think, that we'll have the back and forth about. So it totally makes sense if you just say like, hey, this guy's maybe not an all-around defensive lineman, but I can project a role for him at the NFL level because there are some guys on this list where I wish I could be higher on him, but it's harder for me to project exactly where they're going to be difference makers at the NFL level because there are some guys on this list where I wish I could be higher on them, but it's harder for me to project exactly where they're going to be difference makers

at the NFL level. So I think you also saying you giving Lovett a fourth round grade as IDL nine in this class, IDL nine for me is also a fourth round grade player. So that just kind of sets the stage for where we're at with this group. I think that it's, you know, you're not getting 10 defensive linemen in the top 75, top 100, whatever it is, you know? So I think that that's probably where we are. So a lot of the names for me are similar.

So I'll just read my 10 through six and we'll see who we kind of want to talk about next. So 10 for me is Leonard Taylor. And we could have the Leonard Taylor discussion in a second. Nine for me is Tyler Davis from Clemson. Nice. He just missed my top 10. I had Tyler Davis at 11. Okay.

So I had Makai Wingo at 11. That's really funny. It was kind of like we're flip-flopping those dudes right there, and I do want to talk about Wingo in a second as well. Dwayne Carter from Duke for me is 8. Michael Hall Jr. is 7 for me, and then Ruka Roro from Clemson

is number 6. So, a lot of the same names there, but I'll ask you, do you want to talk about Davis? Do you want to talk about Leonard Taylor? Or do you want to talk about davis do you want to talk about leonard taylor or do you want to talk about wingo first did you have carter sorry i did i had him eight i thought so okay cool so we both had carter at eight i think we have like the the combo between hall and a row row row because we had them flipped and i love rook. You know, those he's got long arms that disrupt the passing lanes.

You could play them up and down the line of scrimmage. The pass rush production wasn't there, but it's Clemson's defense. We have this combo about everybody that plays on this defensive line every single year. I think that he's a good athlete and he does a lot of unsung hero things against the run. But Hall is just a total bet like there's a chance hall is not in the league in three years there's a chance hall is mr six to eight sacks from the interior every year right and i i bet on him by having him sixth. I think that while he was sparingly used at Ohio State in terms of like your typical traditional college defensive lineman, there are reps with that arm over, the spin, the twitchiness,

the light feet, you know, the dancing feet where I'm like, I don't want him out there to try to stop the run on first down. But if I need to get off the field on third down, this guy is way too quick for guards and centers. So that's kind of how I split them up is that I think a row, row, row will be probably in the NFL for six to eight years. Yeah. Hall is a high variance player in a class that i'm not gonna lie i was kind of

jonesing for a high variance like somebody fun in this class right right i do it does feel as though hall has a higher ceiling than a row does because i think we kind of see them pretty similarly um rook wins basically just off athleticism right now. You know, like I think he's a really athletic, versatile defensive lineman. Clemson will put him anywhere from a five technique defensive end to a shade nose. I mean, like they will put him everywhere.

And I think that he's really athletic, but the first bullet point that I have in his deficiencies category is he leans way too much on his athleticism to win as a pass rusher he does not have this deep pass rush profile you know I list these guys go-to moves and for a row row after all the games I watched I mean I've got like a club and arm over move a bull rush but there's not it's not really bull rush I'm not saying there's no technical work to a bull rush but bull rush is pretty much just you trying to do speed to power, use your leg drive, try to get some leverage, get the hands up and then like a club rip move. And that's, again, I'm not trying to take anything

away from them, but like those are base level moves. Those are, those are still like you're trying to win off of quickness or lateral agility or just your strength. And I wanted to see more from him there because at, in his current state, even though I like the player, I don't know how big of a difference maker he really is. That's a really good way of putting it. If you're taking a row, a row right now and putting him in the NFL,

he's probably a nice depth player for you. But if he's ever a starter starter you're going to probably be searching for somebody who will get you more production because i don't think he's going to get you a ton of backfield production but if he does get that technical work in there then he all of a sudden becomes pretty versatile so i like his floor hall i'm just i'm a little worried with hall because the arm over move the the swim move is sick. It's pretty. He'll get into the backfield and he'll hug the hips of these dudes and he'll just be,

he'll be staring at the running back the second that the ball gets into his gut. And so the best of Michael Hall is really good and really impactful, but just overall consistency with having to play as a nose tackle or a three tech defensive tackle is, it's more demanding than the strength that I've seen from him consistently. Like he just gets blown off the ball too easily. Sometimes he'll, you can tell like his run defense preference is more to shoot the gap than to necessarily hold the line of scrimmage that can get you in trouble certainly um especially when you are supposed to be that anchor interior player and you know sometimes i see him struggle with single blocks and when you play as a defensive tackle you're going to go up against double teams a lot and i just think he's got to do a lot better job of that he weighed in at 290 at the combine which proud of him for doing that uh because i think ohio state may have listed him at like 280, 285.

And he looked it. Right. He looked like a lighter player that was trying to shoot gaps. So quickness is definitely a calling card to his game, but I agree with you 100%. This is somebody who, at his worst, will be out of the league, but at his best can really give you some nice splash plays. I think as a rotational player,

I don't know if he's ever going to be like a full-time defensive tackle, but he can give you some splash work. I did want to touch on, I want to hit on, well, let's do Carter now because we'll do Carter. And then I do want to touch on the guys that were a little bit different with on the back end of the top.

So what'd you think of Carter? Because I think his background is fantastic, right? I mean, he's a three-time captain at Duke. I mean, he was a three-star defensive tackle who worked his way on to not only a starting role, but being a leader on that team. I mean, that meant that he was a captain as an underclassman. It just goes to show you how much his teammates respect him, the work that he puts in both on and off the field. He's somebody who's been like an honor roll dude.

He's been super active in the Duke student community. I mean, this is, this is somebody who, this is, this is high football character type of dude. And I know you're getting his high football intelligence is also a big portion of his game. He recognizes where the ball is going. He understands like, okay, if the strong side is over here, I think I'm hearing the call this way. The offensive line, is there shifting their protection? I know exactly where to go.

I know exactly how to shoot the gap. I know where to be to kind of wall off these defenders or whatever. Keep the linebackers clean behind me. He's just such a smart player. I just don't know if he's athletic enough to be a big difference maker in the league. But what do you think about him? He's an interesting one.

Like you said, you love the intangibles with him. It was really interesting how his pass rush win rate just dropped off a cliff this year. Yeah. I mean, there are two tales of Dwayne Carter. Like when I watched the 22, the 2022 tape, I was like, Whoa. And his grades are way better in 2022. Right now I will say there, he was, he, there was more of a focal point on him this year. I saw teams dedicating more attention to him. They knew he was the guy. So that's always going to happen.

But I mean, that level of drop off, I was like, wow, this is, you know, it's, it's really, really surprising because you pull up the tape on him, um, from that year. You know, it's just, he's just so disruptive. I want to actually have the win rates in front of me here we go so he had a 12.4 percent win rate in 2022 that went down to a 6.2 this year i mean 12.4 for an interior guy like okay i'm living with that especially the way he did it there was a spin move in 2022 that was just cooking people um i was really impressed with his flexibility i mean there's times where he can flip his hips and turn to the pocket and kind of run the hoop his effort is great which is not surprising when you talk about the character yeah um they use him on all alignments to rush he keeps his legs driving while he hand fights he's

got massive hands massive hands 97th percentile hands were they 11 inches yeah and his hand placement is pretty good for power rushes like when his hands are right they are so big they knock back blockers but the drop off from 2022 2023 is a pass rusher he he still gets stuck on blocks when he has to counter like if that initial power rush doesn't work and this is why he started to unlock the spin in 2022 he's just stuck and teams figured out like if we double this guy in the run game we're good we're going that way he just got he does not have the size like the girth because he's got big hands he's not really short like there's guys that are deep that are uh idls now that are six feet tall six foot one he's not that he's a shade under six three he just doesn't have

a ton of girth to take on doubles where he's a true one gapping kind of guy what was interesting watching him he reminded me of of like the diet version of davante wyatt that was the first thing came to my came to mind for me i was like this is very much like Devontae Wyatt as a prospect. Maybe not on that level because Wyatt had that massive year. He played for Georgia. He was more productive. But they were doing the same exact things, the same exact things as pass rushers and the ways they were winning.

I would say 2022 Dwayne Carter reminded me of a, you know, turned down version a little bit of Devontae Wyatt. So I like him if you're putting him in one of a, you know, turned down version a little bit of Devante Wyatt. So I like him if you're putting him in one of these, you know, attacking front fours that he's rotated in and he's going to one gap and he's going to shoot gaps and you know he's going to work like absolute hell every day. You love the person in the building. But I'm with you, Trev, that like if he's,

if the pass rushing starts to stall out like it did this year, then he's not going to have an NFL role. It's just that simple. Yeah, I feel like I feel like he's kind of exclusively a three tech defensive tackle. Right. It's got to be it's got to be an even front. He can't play on the nose of the NFL. I don't think he can, even though like I I I have noted here I think he's stronger than I gave him credit for but he's pass rush strong I didn't think he was run game strong yeah I think that's a good that's a better way to put it that's a good way to play those are two like one is power

one is strength I want to say power is when it's like I I'm the aggressor. You're going backwards. Strength is, you're a little bit more the aggressor. I'm holding the point of attack. Yeah. And he didn't look the same doing that. His run stop percentage was just 4.6% over the last two years combined. That's just seventh percentile for defensive tackles, interior defenders, I should say. Right.

I wanted to like him even more. That's where I was. That's where I was. That's where I was. And I initially had him a lot higher on this list, and I went through and I did a lot of reviews on these guys, and I'm like, man, again, I like him. I think he's a solid player. I think that his accolades help out where he's going to get drafted.

I just don't think this is going to be a full-time starter at the nfl level i know i wrote down he's not a three down player i i have here in the bottom line he projects as a high floor rotational player right yeah i think that's i think that's pretty fair so we're talking about the back end guys yeah so the guys that we were a little bit different on i had tyler davis from clemson at number nine um davis long time starter for clemson it feels like there have been a bunch of guys who have come through right like um kj henry brian brazee um obviously like ruka roa as well, but there've been, there've been a bunch of defensive linemen that have come through Clemson. It feels like every year I kind of hear the same thing.

Somebody goes, Oh, Tyler Davis is the best of all of them. It happens every time. Right. And, and I think that, I think that Tyler Davis is a good football player,

but I just think he's solid. Like I think he's an early day three type of a football player that can be a good rotational guy for you because his whole calling card right now with Clemson is effort and setting the tone in the middle. I mean, he will do his best to eat up every single block he possibly can. He will hold the point of attack. That is what he is on the team to do.

But he's just 6'2", 300 pounds. So it's hard to be able to do that role at the NFL level for as valuable as you think that it has been for Clemson, which I think it has been. It's tough to see that really translating against NFL level offensive tackles, um, and interior offensive linemen. So, um i like the my bottom line for him is davis has the football iq and mentality of a depth slash rotational defensive lineman for any sort of front he's got physical limitations which hinder his pass rush efficacy and block shedding but he could become a spot starter at some point due to his intangibles. Just like I could, I could see a world where,

you know, like for example, like where we're at with certain teams where we go, yeah, they can upgrade on the interior defensive line. Like if they have that kind of a year where there's not a solidified, great defensive lineman at either spot, I could see them going,

yeah, we'll start Tyler Davis this year. We can get by with that. He's solid, but I don't know if he's ever going to be a long-term starter for you. I don't think that Tyler Davis is ever going to be the type of player who you go, yeah, we're good at defensive tackle. We've got Tyler Davis.

Maybe I'll be way wrong on that, but I just think the physical limitations are too much for him, even as a run-stuffer. No, I'm with you. I thought, pound for pound his strength is impressive because you look at him and you're like man the way they use you and ask you what things they ask you to do you should be 340 yeah you should be to vandre sweat and right you know combine to vandre sweat not senior bowl to vandre sweat and what a mystery that is yeah

we're still trying we still don't know still don't know we are still trying to crack the case um so i really applaud tyler davis for playing that role for many years and being strong enough to handle that role and how tough he is how hard he plays but yeah you're right the projecting that at the next level is is hard to do and you know yeah go ahead i was just gonna say he's got third percentile wingspan fifth percentile arm length it's just tough man no it's hard he's got that big 25th percentile height 37th percentile weight and he's basically maxed out at weight at 300 pounds you can't go oh i love

his style let's throw another 25 pounds on him because it'll be a sloppy 25 pounds he's pretty much maxed out so it's kind of what you see is what you get and again i think the teams are going to love him he's going to be somebody that they that somebody's going to really like having as as a depth defensive tackle uh i just don't know i just don't think that that's ever going to be a full-time starting role for him. Right. And, you know, you bring up like, Hey, this is, he's probably maxed out. Yeah.

He's, he's turning 24, two months into his rookie season. Yeah. So this is who he is. And right. I know a row, row, row is in a really young prospect. He's also not an old one, but he's somebody that played, I think two years of high school football. So it's just really play long.

He did not play a lot of high school football. So yeah, with Davis, I had him at 11, you know, I I'm rooting for him because of his career in college and what he brings to the table. And Makai Wingo was at 10 for me instead.

He's just everything with Wingo is fast. His hands are fast. His 40 time was 93rd percentile. His 10 yard split was 95th percentile. He's going to have to constantly play fast and slippery and skinny because he's just not big enough to play any other way it's really as simple as that and i i worry for a guy that's 284 six feet tall too this is back to what i was saying there's some guys that are six feet tall this is one of them six feet tall 284 fast for an interior

defensive lineman but he he wins when he's fast and swipes hand, like punches way hands. That's really it. When guys are faster at the NFL level and you don't really have a ton of moves, you're like, wait a second, I'm not faster than everybody else anymore. So Wingo has some really good athletic gifts for an interior defensive lineman,

but he is small. And I worry when guys catch up to his speed, is he going to develop any other, you know ability kind of yeah i mean he's got to go to the johnny newton school of karate you know what i'm saying where like he he's he simply just has to keep hands off of him because he doesn't have the length or overall size to make up for it like he can't get off the blocks. And Wingo, Wingo is sort of like Michael Hall Jr., but a lower ceiling version of it.

Like he's just a one gap penetrating player, right? I mean, like that's what he is. The best of, the best of Makai Wingo is that. And you, again, I pointed out the, where was this? The run stop percentage, actually Hall's run stop percentage is a lot better than this, but Wingo run-stop percentage, actually Hall's run-stop percentage is a lot better than this, but Wingo's run-stop percentage, 3.8%, that's second percentile.

Like the guy, he, as a run-stopper, his entire run defense grade is just based around, can I get past this guard and can I just get into the backfield for a tackle for loss? Because if not- And to that in the NFL.

Right, you just cannot live that way in the NFL and that's how he has lived at LSU. it makes me a little bit nervous last guy that I wanted to talk about before we get into our top five um is Leonard Taylor the third Leonard Taylor was maybe my DT1 going into the season um last year's tape from him when i say last year i mean 2022 was sick i mean it's basically the first time that leonard taylor had been in a full-time role for miami and he was this six foot three six foot four 305 310 pound super-sized linebacker that they had lined up at three technique he had had devastating power. He had devastating quickness and he moved way more explosively than you would ever think a player

would move at that position. I mean, it was jaw dropping the, some of the athletic stuff that he was able to do in 2022. Now he was mainly aligned at three tech in 2022. He was mainly aligned at nose tackle in 2023, but even if you want to point out that he was a much better three technique player than a nose tackle player, because I can totally understand that these are different positions, the effort, the explosiveness, and just the overall difference making ability was not even close to the same in 2023 and now I don't know what I'm getting I have no idea what kind of player I'm getting for Leonard Taylor so he went from a a top 20 pick for me to now beginning of the fourth round like pick him somewhere on day three because you got to take a chance on like this sort of athletic ability for him but my

bottom line for Leonard Taylor because I want to hear your thoughts on him too, because I know he didn't make your top 10. I said, when Taylor is on, he possesses the power and explosive athletic ability to be an impact player, but we just do not see it enough. He is young. He is a young, hot and cold interior defensive lineman, but he is a talent that is worth drafting, at least somewhere at the beginning of day three.

That's what I think. Right. God, I don't even want to say an enigma because i wasn't even really that torn on this one i mean with taylor he's not played a lot which i i have not asked about this but i would love to ask somebody on the miami and be like, this dude was the prize recruit that you landed. He was supposed to be the guy at Miami and he had moments, but they didn't play him like that. He didn't take over like that consistently. Here's the thing too, Trev with Taylor.

Part of his game is that he's supposed to be this unique explosive athlete in the interior he did not test well at all he forget he tested poorly 7813 cone 35th percentile yep 512 40 40th percentile 176 10 yard split 40th percentile vertical jump 58th percentile nine inch hands that's fourth percentile yep the tape was not good this year the testing was bad they didn't play the tape was somehow better than the testing the tape was better than the testing which i didn't think was gonna be the case like this is this is called a bad trajectory right if we're having this combo like we did over summer, we were like, man, there's some moments with Leonard Taylor in 2022 where this guy can go top 20 because he's doing some freaky things. But he needs to show that he's going to play a lot more snaps and bring it on a snap by snap basis.

The snap by snap basis got worse in 2023. He didn't... Here's the scary reality with Taylor. He either wasn't prepared for the combine or he's not a good athlete. I don't know which one I prefer. I'd prefer that he wasn't... I'd prefer that he just somehow wasn't prepared for the combine.

If you're not prepared for that, what do you think pro football is like? Yeah, yeah. No, I know what you're saying. for that what do you think pro football is like yeah yeah no i know you're saying it's tough it's really tough and i hope he just ends up being you know that guy that it just didn't work out for him for reasons we don't know this year and it all clicks at the nfl level and like you said a date he'll get drafted on day three and maybe somebody will really get through and leonard taylor turns out to be everything he was ever supposed to be but um yeah it's it's a definitely a tough eval for sure yeah uh well all right we're gonna get into our top fives before we get to that i gotta shout out our friends over fabric

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you all online into your schedule you go from from start to cover in less than 10 minutes with no health exam required. Join the thousands of parents who trust Fabric to protect their family. Apply today in just minutes at bfabric.com slash stock exchange. That is M-E-E-T fabric.com slash stock exchange. Policies are issued by Western Southern Life Assurance Company, not available in certain states. Price is subject to underwriting and health questions i am so looking forward to these top fives me too because that was a rough 10 to 6 i feel like that conversation i feel not just that i almost feel bad i need to know where you have to vandre sweat okay i think i feel like i feel like we'll have decently the same right top five but sweat is the ultimate wild card i've seen some people

who have to vandre sweat is like dt2 in this class yeah just because like you can't you can't like essentially you can't teach you can't teach girth no but i've seen other people who are like yeah i mean i'm much more on the lower spectrum so i i do not know i have no idea where you are with tavandre sweat who do you have at number five okay so five is brayden fisk okay who i mean is he mr draft process oh dude he? Oh, dude. He's up there. My man's on fire. He's up there. That might be a show that we probably won't have time with the collab mocks,

the rankings, and the mock drafts. But hypothetically, a show that we did is like top five Mr. Draft Processes this year. He's on the show. Yeah. I mean, what a – he had a great senior bowl. He had a great combine. We could call Gatorade and get them to sponsor it. Like, they do the high school state awards. He could call Gatorade to get them to sponsor like to do the high school state awards you know like he was a Gatorade Ohio you know fun fun fact one of my old jobs at Bleacher Report I've had some really strange jobs one of them was we used to have like

a Bleacher Report a content partnership with the Gatorade player of the year so somebody this is when I was like 23, somebody from Bleacher Report would have to go fly out when they surprised the high school kid with the Gatorade player of the year and, and, you know, be the supervisor of shooting content around it and release it right on time before the rest of the media found out. So I went to a couple of them and it was just, it was a great reason to go out to like california or denver when i was 23 so thank you bleacher was there anybody like notable that you remember i don't which i feel bad about but i haven't because i didn't i didn't do football so oh yeah i never i never did

a football one okay um i actually forget i know one of them was softball and another i can't remember it might have been track oh okay okay right but they did all of them but those are just the ones that i went to sure so really weird you bring that up core memory i was gonna say free trip free per diem you know when you're 23 you're living the life you get to put you get to post the um you know the the very vague instagram story of you, you know, flying. And it's like, oh, look at me. I'm travel. Where am I going to now?

And then I'd be like at Red Rocks for one. Oh, yeah. There you go. The other one was, you know, like the Laguna Beach area. Yeah. Ridiculous. You knew what you were doing. I did.

Yeah. It was great. Where's Connor going to be next? Zero dollars in my bank account, but man, was I having fun. I'm eating ramen noodles when I get home, but damn it, the IG stories are popping off. These two days are going to be awesome. So, yep, Gatorade Player of the Year. So, Brayden Fisk.

Yep. Do you have him at five? No, I have him higher. You have him at four, don't you? No. You have him at three. I do. I don't blame you. God, what if I said no? I should you? No. You have my three. I do. I don't blame you.

God, what if I said no? I should have said no. You blew the bait. I should have said no. Oh, man. I'll be kind of brief because you have me at three. I kind of want you to speak more to him. But Fisk for me, yeah, obviously everybody saw the athleticism at the combine.

I mean, an insane 40- dash four, seven, eight, 97 percentile is jumps. We're all 90 plus percentile. The shuttle, this dude is super quick. He plays a thousand miles an hour. Yeah. I do not care that he has short arms because he doesn't win or lose

because of length. That's not how he wins, right? Like he's got good hand placement. He's got big enough hands that have pop. He is very, very slippery. The effort is just tremendous. I mean, Fisk transferring to Florida State and playing in that defense,

put him on the map and everything. He just nobody could block him really at the senior bowl. Nobody could block him. I'm really actually shocked that more people don't aren't like jumping on the Fisk bandwagon. There's a lot of people who just yeah like don't like him don't care they're just like he's got short arms and i'm like that's the thing is that a lot of people are just like yeah he's got short arms i'm out it's like i agree with you obviously i'm i'm even higher on him you are that's why i want to hear you talk about him than

you are dude so i think this dude's really good and And I think that when you look at the timeline of how he has played, I would say over the last, let's go, two years, year and a half, whatever it is. I'm looking this up in Ultimate right now because I'm trying to see. I'm trying to make sure that I've got the pass rush stats right. Yeah, so here's the thing. He transfers over from Western Michigan. He played at Western Michigan for four years, right? Yep, four years.

Oh, it is five. Yeah, because he only played one at Florida State. So he played five years there. And he is going to be an older prospect in this class. I understand. But I also kind of think people make age um age is a metric that matters but i i don't think it matters as much as people think that it matters well you don't want to be a developmental old prospect right you don't want to be like not good and old but if you are good and old, you're still good. It's not like, ah, damn.

He's old. It's crazy. So anyways, I know he's older, but I don't really care about that because he's good. And when I popped on the Western Michigan tape, it took me 10 plays to be like, okay, you're just better than everybody you're going to go up against. Like I was laughing at some of the games that I was watching for him at Western Michigan, because the effort was phenomenal. The power was great at that level. His quickness was absolutely devastating, especially the 2022 film that I watched of him. So then he transfers over

to Florida state. Okay. And this is somebody who I want want to get his recruiting background right. He was a three-star offensive guard recruit. Okay? So it's not like this guy was always going to be a defensive lineman. I think he played both ways in high school, but there was a point in time when he was going through recruiting that he might have been an offensive lineman instead. So it took him a little bit to obviously come on and be the player that we saw at the end of his time at Western Michigan.

He transfers over to Florida State, and his first and only year at Florida State, it took him a little while to get adjusted to ACC play. Like you look at the games in which he had some of his lowest pass rush grades. He had a pretty good pass rush grade against LSU actually that first week, but total pressures in the first five weeks of the season. No six weeks to the season to press. This is like single game, two pressures, zero pressures,

one pressure, two pressure, three pressure, and then one pressure. So in the, in the first six games, this guy's not really anybody. Here's how the season ended.

Six pressures, one pressure, six pressures, two, two, two, five against Louisville, which was a fantastic game in which I felt like he absolutely dominated and doesn't have as good of a pass rush grade as he actually should for the tape that I watched in that game. So he slingshots the second half of the season after he got acclimated to ACC play, and he went, okay, not only can I hang at this level, I can perform well at this level. So the second half of the season matters a lot to me. He then goes to the senior bowl, looks unblockable, it felt like for three days at the senior bowl. And then you

remember what happened during the senior bowl game? They had too many guys drop out from the other team. They asked Braden Fisk, hey, can you go play for a coaching staff that was not coaching you all week? And he said, absolutely. Give me the helmet, the pads, and the cleats. I'll go out and do whatever I need to do. And he goes out there and he plays on the own team. No chemistry, no playbook, no nothing. And they basically just told this guy to pin his ears back. So, okay, now he's still doing well.

You go to the combine. He is the best athletic defensive tackle at the 40, at the vert, and the broad. I just think that when you look at the trajectory that this guy has been on, it is a constant arrow pointing up and it's only going higher. To me, taking that background of how he has just continuously gotten better and better and better and stood out more and more and more makes me want to continue to bet on you. It tells me that the senior bowl was not just a fluke, that the Louisville game was not just a fluke, that the combine performance was not just a fluke. He is now all of these things combined, if you ask me. Yes, he's lighter in weight. Yes, he's got shorter arms,

but this dude wins so well because of how quickly he gets off the ball. He's got great flexibility. He's got good bend for an interior defensive lineman. The hands are devastatingly quick to be able to one-handed swipe, two-handed swipe, club rip, arm over move, whatever it is, just to get into the backfield. So to me, yeah, it sounds a little bit similar to some of the guys I've got lower on this list, like a Michael Hall Jr. and Makai Wingo, because you're not necessarily going to want him to go up against duo blocks

and double teams all the time because I don't know how well he's going to fare. But when you need somebody to get in the backfield, this dude's going to do it for you. And I think that he's going to do it for you better than everybody in this class outside of the top two guys that I have ahead of him. So I've got an early second round grade on Braden Fisk. I just, I think that if you put him in a four, three defensive front and you let him play three technique, I think that this dude could really, really wreak some havoc and get into backfields at the NFL level. And I did not see that same level

of explosiveness and NFL talent that I saw with him. So I got him in number three. Yeah. I mean, listen, once again, a guy that just had such a good process and the tape. I love that you brought out the story of the tape. That's so important when you just look up a guy and see the full sample size. I know I overuse this word, but trajectories matter so much when it comes to the NFL draft. And I think Fisk is a guy that is the perfect representation of that. So you're really high on him.

You have him number three. I have him number five. Wait, so who was five for you? Tavondre Sweat. Okay, I have him at three. All right. Okay. All right.

All right. I'm aligned with the big man. All right. So I just talked a lot about Brad I'm aligned with the big man. All right. So I, I just talked a lot about Braden Fisk. You've got to Vondre sweat at three. Talk to me about to Vondre sweat. Sell me on to Vondre sweat.

I mean, when he's out there, it just changes the entire identity of the defense. It's just, you can't run at him. And as we've talked about on this show this year, his ability to push the pocket and use a push pull on guys and kind of, you know, forklift these blockers.

Now I'm looking at him and I'm like, OK, the conditioning and the weight is always going to be the question. But there's not something I can't ask of this guy, right? With Tavondre Sweat, it feels like you can play really, really heavy. But it's not like when I talked about Fabian Lovett, that I'm now giving up everything I want in the pass rush game. Because I think he can rush the passer for such a big guy. And I think that his size and two gapping presence, it just completely eliminates the run game.

It really, really does. He is such a force in the middle of the defense, and they just don't make them like this. Yeah, that's for sure. That is for sure. Like, where else am I getting to Vondre Sweat? No, nowhere. Nowhere.

Jordan Davis, but they're different players they're not the same player i think sweats a better pass rusher coming out oh totally no no no no when i say they're different players it's because jordan davis is an absolute mountain in the run defense and then i don't worry about his weight which is somehow has some scoot you know he's case keenan but with scoot he really he it's that's right case keenum with scoot favorite comp i i know it's remarkable this man ran a 527 at 366 yeah yeah another man in the club of 11 inch hands he's yeah he's a character i think i also and this didn't factor into my ranking of him at all but but I really did enjoy talking to him.

He is like, people will adore being around him because he is very good energy, funny, and I know the weight is the concern, and it's definitely, I think the conditioning is a question, but I know he does care about football. It's not like one of these guys like i just play football it's just he's gotta keep that weight under control so he could play even more football and if he does then i think that he'll be a fantastic player right i mean if you could if you could tell me that tovandre sweat's gonna play most of his career

around 350 pounds um i probably also have him as dt3 in this class yeah um i just don't know maybe i'm weighing this too much full pun intended the senior bowl the senior bowl thing scares me right no it should and i i feel like on this show i can be mr like hard ass at times and i i there's just things i won't i won't gatorades mr hard ass right yeah there we go i'm just gonna put gatorades in front of everything that we say until they do it give us a sponsorship i mean you you've been around me long enough there's i've always said like in injured players in college stay injured in the nfl sure like that's there's lines that i just don't really cross sweat is one of my rare

guys this year where I'm like I know exactly what I'm getting into here but and here we go and like you said like you you want to bet on guys that are unique right if you're gonna bet on somebody to be an outlier from your process they have to be unique and And, and to Vondry sweat being the athlete that he is at 266 pounds is somebody that's just, it's hard to bet against. I couldn't keep, there are parts. I am genuinely worried about just the overall conditioning and the weight of him throughout his NFL career. I really am. Um, because when you go from college to the NFL, you are an adult. Your free time is yours. Your diet is yours. Your decision making is yours. When you were in college, everything is still very structured for you, especially when you're a D1 athlete. When you're a D1 athlete, you've got to keep school in check, even though I would agree that D1 football is a full-time job, but you still have to have school in check,

so a lot of things are very scheduled for it. You just don't have a ton of free time or relaxing time. You have conditioning. You got weightlifting. You got the games. You got practices. You got school. You got all this stuff, and there's just not a ton of free time.

When you get to the NFL, especially in today's age with less practice time and all that kind of stuff, you got a lot of free time, man. You got a lot of free time. man. You got a lot of- You go home for months. Right. After the season, it's like, all right, see you in June. It's like, what? So the fact that Texas' season lasted as long as it did into January,

and yet there was still only about a month of time between him having to be at playing weight and then him stepping on a scale at the senior bowl and him not being willing to do it it just kind of it just kind of spooks me a little bit i know i got on the scale and he weighed 366 at the combine and that's great obviously he has the ability to get his weight in check but i also like i don't want it to just be ufc fighter weight right like i don't want you to put on a sauna suit like i want you to actually be a healthy 350 pounds because again if you told me he's gonna be 350 throughout his whole career i'm in

yeah no i'm in baby i'm in the the other thing that i'll mention is um obviously he's great when it comes to run defense and holding in line scrimmage and playing with power um i didn't see nearly as much of a mean streak with him in 2022. I saw more of that in 2023, which I was happy with. And I thought that at times him holding the line of scrimmage was less so about natural brute strength and more of just like, damn, it's hard to move this man off of his spot, which again is fine. But you think of some guys like a Vince Wilfork, like a Chris Jenkins Sr., where you are much higher in weight. I think the same with Jordan Davis. You are much higher in weight, but you're also naturally just genetically strong as hell.

And you could see that. And I didn't necessarily see that from Sweat. But for a player who's 366, the hands are way quicker than I thought they were going to be. His finesse game is way better than it should be, especially in 2023. And there's just a lot of things to like. I just worry about the conditioning overall. And that's kind of why it's like I can't put him lower than five. But I don't know if I could put him higher than four. There's a guy that I think that we both have at four that we'll talk about here in a second,

but that's Devondre sweat to me. It's gotta be Chris Jenkins then. Correct. Yeah. Chris Jenkins is almost an easy eval. Yep. Where it's yeah. Four is,

you know, we, we flipped Fisk and sweat. Now I will say with Jenkins, I was disappointed that he didn't take that pass rush jump this year that I really was hoping for. Same. I mean, Jenkins is a guy that when you look at the ability, we watched the 2022 tape and talked a lot about him, how, you know, gritty and nasty he was as a run defender. Like he just does everything right for his teammates around him. He just was a guy that, you know, if he wanted to be a first round pick, he had to make a jump as a pass rusher.

And that green light did not come on. He has a high floor because of how sound he is as a run defender with his hands and his strength. And he's pretty explosive all things considered but it's it is just odd how i didn't even really see there's guys where it's like okay it's improving which ankins he was just really the same guy i thought this year right would you agree no i think the same um i wanted him to definitely take that take that step up there's no question about it and you know it's I think some people might tell you like oh well he was in kind of like a run stuffing role and and I agree that's what they wanted him to do but I'm looking at his um position pivot splits per snap

I mean this guy's a defensive tackle the whole time, right? I mean, there's very few snaps that he took at nose. He was mainly either a three-tech defensive tackle or a four-eye defensive end, or even sometimes a five-tech defensive end. But it wasn't the excuse of, well, they just want him to set the tone in the middle. They do want him to do that, but it's not like he didn't have the opportunities to pin his ears back and be a more effective pass rusher or a more

impactful pass rusher because they were definitely there from him. But I at least enjoyed the fact that the win percentage was up this year. That's fair. You know, the win percentage was 8.3 in 2022. It was 11.0 this past year. So where I agree with you overall, I don't want to totally discount him because I do think that he got more effective at it. It just maybe wasn't the jump that we all wanted it to be for him. And I think that's why we liked him going into the year. We still like him now, but we wish we liked him more.

He's a good football player. He can play right away. I looked at a lot of these guys and I was like, if they don't do this, I don't know if they're going to play much year one. Yeah. Not worried about Jenkins. Not worried about Jenkins at all.

Yeah. Yeah. My, my little scouting summary for him. Jenkins is one of the strongest players in this entire draft class. And then I look, I have his arm length limitations will be there for him but his arm length like wasn't small which i was like kind of shocked about his arm length was 34 inches which

is 78th percentile right long arms his total wingspan was only 79 and an eighth, which is just 40th percentile. Right. So that's probably where I get that on tape. He's got long arms, but just like the total length for him wasn't there. But anyways, lack of pass rush profile will likely limit his draft stock to a mid-day two selection. I think probably somewhere in the late second, early third. However, he presents a very high floor as a starter in a 4-3 even front. That's what I thought of him.

Yeah. I'm with you all the way. All right. I'm curious if we have the same at one and two. We better. Yeah, or else the pod's over. Or else the pod's over. We'll press stop recording, walk away.

I have Byron Murphy at two. Yeah, you should. Okay. Thank God we got through that. Yeah, you should. Okay. Thank God we got through that. Thank God we got through that. I think there's going to be a lot of people who have Byron Murphy as DT1 in this class. I thought that was consensus.

I feel like it is consensus. I don't know when it happened, but somewhere during like January, it all flipped. And I was like, whoa, okay. So I watched Byron Murphy and I liked him a lot. And I'll tell you, there are times on, there was a point in time where I had Murphy

ranked ahead of Johnny Newton. But it was because when I watched Byron Murphy, for whatever reason, I didn't see that much of like length limitations with him. In fact, I don't, maybe it's just the way that his body is proportioned. I felt like he had decently long arms and I felt as though Johnny Newton had some length deficiencies and i was like man okay like if if all things are equal and and and byron murphy is younger and has the longer arms has the better length and we know pound for pound he's an absolute ox i was like i should probably have him above newton they're like the same measurably right in fact like newton's like a little bit bigger and so i just didn't it was

sort of an illusion of while i was watching them on tape of, I had Murphy there, but then kind of doing this rewatch and going through the draft guide again, I watched both these guys again. And I'm like, you know what? I still really like Byron Murphy. I still think he's a first round player. I like Newton better.

I think Newton's a better football player. That's where I landed too. With Murphy, you just love how he gets off the ball and kind of carves his way through gaps. He can swim and rip and kind of just get skinny and slender through these gaps, and then he'll throw his hands in your chest and try to move you backwards.

There's so much to like about his just disruption, both as a pass rusher and a run defender he's just disruptive um and with that comes sometimes some over aggression where you overshoot the play i think there's gonna be a little bit of an adjustment where when guys are just really strong at the next level and they get their hands on them they're gonna move them at times with newton i mean he's just a complete player to me he is so so good at stacking and shedding blocks yep it's like yep he almost creatively at times not all the time, because this is how you want to live, invites blockers because he knows he can get off the block and he has time.

He has good awareness and eyes. So this is a guy that did play some running back in high school. So he understands what the running game is trying to do to him. There's times where he allows blockers to get on him the way he wants because he almost traps them.

And he's like, okay okay now i need to shed the block i'm gonna throw you and i'm right on time for the play where with murphy and this is okay a lot of it's i just want to be there like i'm here to just disrupt the play with newton he has this weird balance of being savvy and explosive and part of that's probably the scheme i thought at times the scheme held back some of his numbers but man like for byron you're saying no for newton i thought i'd say the same for byron like they they have to bunch of sweat on the team and they put byron murphy at nose a lot that's actually really fair i'm like what are we doing sweat needed just a couple of, you know,

snaps on the sideline when that happened. No, they put Sweat at, like, five techniques. They're almost like playing games in Madden. Yeah, we're like, yeah, we're going to, right, 100%. Where's the greatest mismatch? Which I actually don't hate, right? No, it's fun. Especially at the college level where it's like, cool,

Tavondre Sweat's 380 pounds, and he's going up against a 290 pound guard or tackle like right Newton has some plays where he runs sideline to sideline and when a quarterback bails out of the pocket and you're like whoa hello like this is not a dude that he he invites the foot race when he needs it uh really good lateral agility. His awareness is special. Batted passes, counter moves, creating traffic. Just everything Newton does. He has some of the best tape in the draft. Honestly, I'll say it right there.

He really has... If you've never watched Johnny Newton play, just start with the Penn State and Wisconsin games from this year. He's the only reason Illinois is not getting blown out yeah the Penn State game is just a phenomenal performance he's begging for someone to make a play on the team on the offense like somebody please please it's Zach Wilson Jets-esque where it's every you're just like somebody return a punt or do anything because I'm every play I'm taking over but it doesn't matter if we can't score a point. There was a rep specifically where Newton, I believe it's against Olu.

He's going up against Olu. And Olu puts his arm out to kind of give him the space and really attack him before he could get into his shoulder or into his chest. And Newton's just, his hands are too quick with it. I mean, he's just swiping it away. He's getting by Olu. face and really attack him before he could get into his shoulder or into his chest and newton's just his hands are too quick with it i mean he's just swiping it away he's getting by olu he's getting inside i think there was help inside as well so he had to like basically split it wasn't a full double team but had to split the help blocker that was helping him at left guard so um he is i mean he's a karate master out there right i think that we've said that before i think that other people have said that before.

He looks like a black belt with how his hands are moving. He's the best in this class. No question about it. And I would say, I would say that he is the best defensive lineman overall. Him and Latu are by far the best in this class when it comes to, I'm not even going to give you the chance to get hands on me. Right. Like, like I'm, I'm not even going to give you the chance.

And that's great for both of them because for both of them they have some length deficiencies so if they expose their chest and if they let the offensive linemen actually latch on underneath the armpits or right around the chest like they're not going to really be able to wiggle their way out of it it's very difficult to do that it's going to be very difficult to break the block. But if they never let those guys even get hands on them, well, there's nothing they could do. They're going to be swinging at air. They're going to be off balance. Boom. All of a sudden you're, you're by him and you're in the backfield. And I think that's how both of these guys operate. That's why their PFF grades are both so fantastic over the last two years. Newton, this is cumulative over the last two years elite run defense grade elite pass first grade

what more do you want right right three tech defensive tackle what more do you want i think that he is he's it felt as though a lot of people really loved him early on but i think just i think it was just because he's built in weird proportions you you know, like he, he, he's not this again, like Leonard Taylor looking dude, where he looks like a supersized linebacker or like Byron Murphy's kind of the same way. Byron Murphy's just built differently, even though they end up, they're around the same on the scale. Byron Murphy doesn't have near the midsection that Johnny Newton does. He's got a little bit longer arms. I think he's got, I think, uh, Byron Murphy's Johnny Newton does. He's got a little bit longer arms. I think he's got, I think Byron Murphy's got bigger chest. I think he's got a bigger shoulder.

He's got bigger thighs. And because of that, you say like, oh, this guy's kind of like built more superhuman. And it just maybe looks better with Murphy, but the end results better with Newton. I thought I wrote at the top of my notes. He's built like a cannonball. He is. And I think, I think people look at Johnny Newton and they say, ah,

you know, he's just not built like an elite defensive tackle. I think you're right. I think it is an eye test thing. I think it's an optics thing. I genuinely believe that's why not as many people are, are as high on Johnny Newton. Well,

they're going to learn who again, Byron Murphy, great football player. I mean, like I said, strong as an ox. You look at how this guy tested. I mean, he is a phenomenal athlete at his size. If Braden Fisk did not exist, we'd all still be raving about Byron Murphy's combine performance. 83rd percentile 10-yard split. 91st percentile 40-yard dash. 88th percentile vertical jump. 91st percentile 40 yard dash 88th percentile vertical jump 82nd percentile broad jump i mean dude's a straight athlete no question about it and johnny

newton didn't test so we don't we can't like stack them up one to one he's not hiding anything he's just hurt so right i think i think he actually he would have tested really well um with that sprint speed so it would have been it would have been fun to watch those two go toe-to-toe for sure. Those strides are short for him, but goddamn, are those pistons firing. You're 100% right. He's the human cannonball. Crazy. So there we go.

Those are our top tens. Anybody outside that we didn't happen to meet? You know damn well we're gonna be asked about mason smith i mean uh mason smith he's had a tough college road with the injury that he had two years ago where he was celebrating right yeah when he tore his acl in 2022 the opener yeah celebrating a teammate's tackle i mean this is a former five star he was a freshman all-american 2021 he's this is actually the perfect segue this is what everybody wants their d-line to look like yes like ark armstead yes that's what they want their d-line to look

like 100 and he just it's tough to say. And this is why he'll be, I mean, he's over six foot five. He's got 35 inch arms. That's stupid. He's like a 90. He's like a 95th percentile height length,

everything. Yeah. And he still jumped 31 inches, which is 71st percentile. The thing with Mason Smith is like, just to be really blunt, he's out there and has no idea what he's doing rushing the passer like it's like he's never been coached which

i might entice a team nfl team be like well when we teach this guy look out and i wouldn't blame them for thinking that you know obviously the the torn acl really set back. I don't think his contact balance is very good. He doesn't push the pocket. I don't know, Trev. I just was like, man, it's just there's no development here for a guy that had so much promise that he's, I guarantee that he's in

the first round of preseason or mock drafts at any point after last year's draft. And he, I think he's a day through a top of day three prospect. Now, see, I also kind of have him as a top of day three prospect because that's

what he put out on film. But I can understand anybody saying, Hey, back into day two, I'll take a flyer on him because a lot of what you said, I agree with. And fortunately or unfortunately, unfortunately for us as evaluators trying to get it right but

fortunately for him because there's a path to being really really good a lot of this is sort of explainable right you have the freshman season which you're really just probably learning the fundamentals of the game of football at a high level for the first time that's what a lot of these guys are out of high school um and then first game, first couple of plays of that Florida State game in 2022, your Terry ACL, this past season, these are kind of the notes that I had on him and some of the weaknesses, if you will, because a lot of the strengths are just physical gifts. The weaknesses that I have for him are he is slower off the ball.

He just is not exploding off of the ball with confidence. The explosiveness is adequate when you do weight adjusted, but it's not as fast and as violent as you think that it can be. He's got active but reckless hands. They're not really where they need to be placed. There's not really a rhyme or reason for them. Sometimes he's just moving his hands to try to keep the blocks off, and you wish it was more precise.

You wish it was more intentional. The leg drive really stalls out on the bull rushes, but I have in parentheses, might not trust his knee still because it's his first year coming back from the ACL. And then just slow to see the ball and slow to disengage. A lot of the negatives that I simply have from him are you're removed from an ACL surgery as a big human being. And he's just, he's not technically sound because he hasn't played a lot of football and he just doesn't

have the confidence. So he doesn't play with that confidence. All three of those things are correctable. All three. He gets healthier. If he trusts the knee better, I bet we see more of that explosiveness. Then he becomes, then you unlock way more of the physical gifts then he's on the field more then he gets better with his hand usage then he gets more pass rush moves down then he gets more counters then he becomes a mismatched nightmare so it's like i know i get it i i i don't have him in my top 10 as as you don't as well because there are simply too many question marks. But if you want to draft this guy somewhere in round three and say, again, it's like the Tavondre Sweat thing. Just give me the dudes, right?

Just like give me the dudes that have the potential. I get it. I understand. So let's run out with them. Add to sum that one up. You know, and I guess if we want to real quickly, I'll close because I'm trying to. You know, trying to answer any of the people like, what about this guy? I saw him hyped here with McKinley Jackson.

I just. It's the same thing I said over summer. Nothing's really changed. He's he's not very explosive. He's slow off the ball. And if you're going to be those two things. You got to be just like Fabian LeVette you're just like i'm a brick shithouse try to move me and i don't think that's part of his game either he played on the ground too much oh yeah he's yeah i i don't and i don't it's like a balance thing i don't know if it's like

a core strength thing or what but i felt like he was on the ground way too much. And again, when you're an interior defense lineman, I need you on your feet, man. Right. Your job is to hold the point of attack. Right, right. So like, look, some guys will use like a corkscrew technique where they'll try to take out a double team

and they know they're going to be overpowered because they don't have the weight to do it. And what you do is you kind of like, you move your hip a little bit and you drop your knee down to try to like little, almost just like brace yourself on the ground. And that's kind of a technique that you could use. But when I say he's playing on the ground too much, I even mean just slipping, like be like totally being on the ground, not on purpose. Um, yes. All right, there we go. Anybody else who you guys would like to hear us talk about fire off in the comment section, let us know what you thought of our rankings here,

our assessment of this interior defensive line class. Any of the guys we missed? I did not do Christian Boyd yet from Northern Iowa. I didn't write him up yet either. I've only seen some tape. I still, I still need to do him. I really need to, I really need to get to his report. He will be in the draft guide. So that one is coming. But anybody who wants to sound off on Christian Boyd, if you watched him go really need to get to his report. He will be in the draft guide, so that one is coming. But anybody who wants to sound off on Christian Boyd,

if you watched him, go ahead and get the scouting report off. Kings and Queens. Best place to do that, YouTube comments, obviously, YouTube.com backslash NFL Stock Exchange. You can hit us up on X as well as Instagram, at TimmyBetray, at ConnorJRogers. Are you on Blue Sky? No, what is that?

Oh, wait, that's the one where everybody thought Twitter was going away, right? That was Threads. I'm not, I don't post on either. I don't have Blue Sky and I don't post on Threads, but I was just curious. I don't have Blue Sky either. I just, it's hard.

We've done this with X, Twitter, it's Twitter, for so long. It's just all, you know. I don't think I'll do it i think i would enter the youtube chat even more before i go to another and i've been trying to do that because i it's a lot of fun with our community like that's that's exactly what i would say if twitter goes away like if elon nukes this thing i think i just become really involved in our youtube channel i would i wouldn't i'm not going to start to build a following on a new channel, man.

No. If Twitter actually did explode, I think that would force our hands to finally make a Discord. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it would. But it's still live. Maybe we should still do that. Eventually. It takes some work.

I think we've been talking about that for like a year. We have been talking about that for a year. But if you guys bully us enough in the comments, maybe we'll actually do it. So, all right, there we go. Interior defense line, we will have a new collab mock for you guys on Monday of next week, I think. Sometime early next week. Hopefully. And then we'll get to another positional ranking a week from today i'm trying to think of which positions we have left we might be at the point

where we're going through the hits again we got to redo edge we got to redo edge you have to play the greatest hits again i think we got to do wide receiver as well because now we got like pro day results we got combine results and we'll have like 30. We'll give you our top 45 for this class. Basically. Let me look right now. I have 23, like officially stacked. You have 23 officially stacked.

Yeah. And I'm not, I'm not even close to done watching more. Let's see. How many do I have in the draft guide? I have 31 in the draft guide, right? So you could easily do 30.

We would just have to actually go through. We'd probably barely talk about Marvin Harrison Jr. Yeah. Cause y'all, he's good. So is Malik neighbors and the show. That's what we would need, but those are coming. So we're going to revisit those positions at some point, but we'll get to all that good stuff. That's for another day. I'm Trevor Sikkim, but that is Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. See you guys next week. Bye.