NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 247. Edge Rankings For 2024 NFL Draft

Episode Date: April 5, 2024

Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers give you their top 20 edge rusher rankings for the 2024 NFL Draft. The two dig into each of their different lists, where they could see these guys drafted, and how big of an impact they could have.

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all got back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better. With NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV, you get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great. I got it this year.

It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital only games welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast in this episode we're giving you our top 20 edge rushers for the 2024 NFL draft pretty close to final with this list and so this is what we're going to be sticking with obviously I haven't seen Connor's list he has not seen mine so the reactions there's some really good ones in this episode. It's a lot of fun, a lot of good

conversations. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Conor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikma. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you guys on one of the final position ranking episodes of the show before the 2024 NFL Draft. We've gone through running backs. We've done interior defensive linemen. We've done tight ends. And now it's time to get back to the premium positions, baby. This is what the people want. It's provocative. Gets the people going. It's provocative. Gets the people going. It's edge rushers.

We're expanding the list. Normally, Connor and I, why? Summer scouting, we'll do top fives. Hey, you know, early list. You know, list in January, we'll do top 10. Top 20 for you guys. So we love you so much. We're expanding this bad boy all the way to the top 20,

which means you're going to get, you know, some of the fourth, fifth round grade guys as well. The specialists, you know, run stuffers, outside linebackers, 4-3 defense, vans, specialized passers, whatever it is. We're going to get to all sorts of flavors for all sorts of teams. Connor, how you doing, my friend? I'm good, man. Listen, the Mets are historically bad.

The Rangers are just awesome to watch. 5v5 opening line brawl. Usually you get the three- three on three once a year somewhere around the league but the 5v5 was absolutely glorious and this is really fun that we're cranking this thing up to top 20s because you nailed it you're away from okay these three guys have all the traits and they could be a star and you know you're really going on and on and i think when you get to that maybe nine and on range you're often talking about role players or players that can grow into full-time players or scheme specific players or sometimes great athletes that you know

need seasoning you need to figure it out it's the part of the process for me that i start to enjoy the most this time of year. When we do summer scouting, we're looking for the stars. I mean, that's what it's all about. When we've been talking about those stars for, you know, almost 80% of a year, it's a lot more fun to find the hidden gems or the guys that can be something more than they're being projected as. So, you know and you typically you and i saved this level of rankings for things like wide receiver and stuff so it's really cool that we're getting to it with the pass rushers this year yeah no i'm excited to get to it i've watched 34 edge rushers for the pff draft guide so you can go check that out in the pff draft guide and i'm also saying that up front to say we're going to go through our top 20s but i have some thoughts and some

of these other guys. Conor's watched more than 20 as well. So if there's a certain diamond in the rough, somebody who's on day three, who we didn't mention that you love, fire them off in the comments. We'll have a good back and forth and we'll tell you what we think about these guys if we got some notes on them. So let's just start it off like this. We're going to go top 20.

So obviously we want to get to it right away. Let's go 20 to 16, then we'll do 15 to 11. We've talked a lot about the top 10 guys, specifically the top five, so it might be a little bit shorter then. We'll get to our final rankings of how we have the top of this class, so we'll talk about maybe the order instead of as much the prospects because you guys probably know a lot about, oh, shocker layout to law to Jared verse tell me we're not going to start from ground zero with those guys but uh we'll tell you what order we have them in and why but I will let

you start give me your 20 through 16 uh and I'll pick a couple and and we'll kind of have a conversation started off right there I almost had a panic moment I've realized I forgot to transfer a guy in the middle of it from where I work on all my scouting reports and stack them to like the rankings sheet I read for this show. So we're off to just a glorious start. We always are. You know, as always, we are firing on all cylinders. So hopefully I don't miss anybody here. OK, so 20 to 16 number admit you're right there are guys outside

of the top 20 that i'm looking at like man we do have to get to them so number 20 jalen harrell from michigan okay i think he was on a stock up show very very early in the season. 19, Cedric Johnson from Ole Miss. Senior bowl guy. Yep. 18, Xavier Thomas from Clemson, who has played a lot of, he has played, I think, 61 games for Clemson. Six-year player. Yes.

Okay, so that was 18. 17, Javon Solomon. Another guy. I know he got a little banged up right at the beginning of the Senior Bowl. Very explosive on tape. I know we'll get into having a combo about him. And then 16 Brennan Jackson, a guy that from Washington State, a guy that plays as hard as, you know, maybe anybody in this draft when you watch him, he's just kind of that pinball player bouncing around offensive lineman.

And I know I forgot to say this, Jermon Solomon from Troy, a smaller school player, but a very productive player. So yeah, I mean, we kicked off the pod talking about just flavors. There are all different kinds of players from that 20 to 16 range.

Okay, so real quick, list them off once again for me. Yeah, so 20 was Jalen Harrell from Michigan. Yep. Uh, 19 was Cedric Johnson. Okay. Ole Miss.

Uh, 18 is Xavier Thomas from Clemson. 17 is Javon Solomon from Troy. And then 16 was Brennan Jackson from Washington state. Okay. Two of those players are not in my top 20. So I don't have Jalen Harrell in my top 20, and I don't have Cedric Johnson in my top 20.

Now, Jalen Harrell is tied for like the same kind of round grade that I have for a couple of the guys who are the back end of my top 20. He was just sort of either tied very close when it comes to film grade, and so he was just left a little bit outside of it. But I'll actually leave it to you. Dealer's choice. Where do you want to start with one of those guys? Um, is there somebody in particular that you, you really enjoyed watching that you really want to dig into? I can tell you Xavier Thomas and, uh, Javon Solomon, we're going to get to in my rankings,

but I have them even higher. So we'll definitely have those conversations, but where do you want to start? So we'll hold off on them because I really liked them too. And I was a little frustrated having to leave them, you know, outside of the top 15. But there's just there's just players I really like in this draft. It's a weird edge class where the guys at the top are in the tier. And then it's just this giant pool of players. It's really crazy, like a giant pool of players. It's not like wide receiver.

I felt like I kept having tier and tier and tier and tier with edge it was like tier one tier two oh tier three has 12 guys in it right it's a little hyperbole but it did it did feel that way yep at times i guess i could just break down cedric johnson and harrell because you're not gonna have them uh in your top 20 harrell is somebody to me that is a situational pass rusher, pretty explosive player. I think he can get off the ball and really master that kind of outside rush and just play really fast. I think he's somebody to me that, you know,

he's not going to be an every down player. It didn't even feel like Michigan wanted to use him in that way. He did get up to 250 pounds for this process. I don't know if he actually was playing at 250 didn't always look at like that yeah you talk about the explosiveness that 37 inch vertical I mean once again the ability to get off the ball and rush wide and use speed but a true situational player like I would only want to use Harrell on third and longs on the edge I'd want him to be be a standup rusher. And then when you get to Cedric Johnson, it kind of felt like the exact opposite with him.

He's got the right build for the position. He is a very good straight line tester. When you look at his measurables, like he's six, three, two 60. He's, he's built with 33 and a half inch arms,

which is kind of the threshold that you want. The four, six, three 4086 percentile, the 38 inch vertical 81st percentile. He didn't do the agilities, but that's how he plays. He is a straight line. I want to use my hands. I want to create power. I want to set a hard edge. I want to be able to stop the run. I want to hold the point of attack. There's no creativity in his pass rush plan. I just don't think he's that kind of guy i

didn't see a lot of moves i didn't see a lot he's not flexible like he's not loose there was a couple times where he's got that explosive lower body power off the ball that he can beat the tackle wide but when he has to start flipping his hips and turning or the quarterback just is a little twitchy and jumps out of the way it's like he's like oh man i missed him like you know some guys kind of run the hoop and they just make your life hell and they're it's like you're running away from like a cheetah like with him it's kind of like you're almost running away from like a bear like it's like the clumsy like oh man like but he plays with really good power and i think he's a true nfl player for a guy that's ranked all the way on the back end here um at 19 it feels

like you can put him on the field against the run pretty early. He has a typical edge hand in the dirt kind of build. So there's no flash in Cedric Johnson's game. But when you look at NFL explosiveness and straight line power, I thought he had enough of that. Yeah, I have Harold graded above Cedric Johnson. I guess Cedric Johnson ranked as my 26th edge rusher here. I have him as a fifth round grade and we basically see him the same. I was going to say, I would have him the same area. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's, he's kind of the same thing as like, you love the bill, love the explosion is I turned on his tape and again, like we're, you know,

three, four reps into this thing. And I'm like, Oh, we might have something here. It's like a tank. It never manifested itself into he's just got too much of a i'm big and strong and like that matters at the nfl level but the hand usage was lacking really does not have a pass rush plan at all and even on some of those reps like you mentioned where he gets off the ball quick it's like okay what'd you do with it you know like you didn't you actually like got off the ball really really well but it just never turned into like backfield production or staying off blocks or things like that.

He's a good athlete, but I worry if that pass rush plan for him does not get better, even at his size, does he become a replaceable type of player? That's why I'm a little bit lower on him in the fifth. Harold's kind of the same way. Harold, dad played in the NFL, played Mike Linebacker basically his entire career when he was in high school immediately switched over to edge at uh at michigan and yeah you're

right a little bit lighter of a weight uh i think it took a little bit to like become a full-time starter if i remember correctly just because he was used as that specialist at michigan and so um i think that he's a really well-built athlete. I love his finesse game, especially when it comes to like the start and stop stuff. Like you could tell he played off ball linebacker because he will, like he can't, if he has to adjust to the ball, like the ball carrier goes away that he's not used to, he will be the first one to put his foot in the ground and go the other direction and offensive lineman often cannot keep up. So I like that from him. He's got super fast hands to try to stay

unblocked but you're right the weight profile like if you watch this guy try to hold the line scrimmage it does not go well when he tries to do the speed to power it fades very quickly so i think he's kind of a situational guy again i gave him an early day three grade i gave him a fourth round grade so yeah that's that's how i see those guys he hit an inside spin on roger rosengarten in the national title game, where credit to Rosengarten, he recovered really well. Rosengarten's a good athlete too. And Penix got the ball out on a play that it really should have been,

like the execution to me was pretty flawless. It's more impressive from Rosengarten, but that inside spin, he's able to work because there's so much twitch and change direction that the tackle tries to mirror. And then rather than like really dropping your hips and like sinking your ass ready, like for that power rush off the twitch, it's a spin where you're like, Whoa, I have to step all the way inside on this. So I think that like, that's gotta be his bread and butter. Like he just has to play almost standing up. It's wide nine get a tackle on an island and be like okay like isolation basketball and there are schemes that use a guy like that in NASCAR packages so that's why I took the swing on

Harrell in the top 20 because I think there's sure there's real pass rush things there with him but I completely agree with you that like that's he's got to master that to be on an nfl field for sure and here's how i explained him in my little uh bottom line synopsis like harold smaller size and lack of power limits his ceiling is pass rusher but he does have the speed game to be an outside linebacker rush specialist for a 3-4 defense and then i say he may enter the nfl as an edge rusher but he might actually might he he might end up finding a better role as an off-ball linebacker like i still think there's a future where yeah this guy loses a little bit of weight you put him at 235 or something and you just like let him be um

an off-ball linebacker i think that he could he could have some success there as well um all right anybody else you want to mention in that group? Okay. So we're going to do Xavier Thomas and Solomon. Do you have Brennan Jackson in your top 20? Yes, I do. All right. So I want to hear yours, and then we can kind of react to the crossover guys. Okay. Yeah.

I actually have all three of those guys a little bit higher. So number 20, funny enough, we were texting about this guy a little bit earlier. I have Miles Cole from Texas Tech. Just a giant individual. Very big athlete. Sort of a little bit along the same lines as Cedric Johnson, but I liked what I saw from Miles Cole

a little bit better. So I got Miles Cole as my 20th head rusher. I got Nelson Caesar from Houston at number 19. I like his pass rush profile. I just don't know if he has the size to be able to do it at the NFL level. He was 22 for me. He's smart, man.

He's smart. He's got a good pass rush plan. I love how he attacks offensive tackles with a long arm technique. He's very good at it. He goes straight into the chest. You could tell he knocks them onto their heels, but I'm like, man, you're not not gonna be able to do this at the nfl level i love what i'm seeing in college you're just i don't think he's big enough to be able to do it at the nfl level but i did i am i am a sucker for nelson caesar's game so he was close to you so i mean i guess you feel the same

way i do it's it broke my heart how bad the testing was in the explosive and agilities because i'm with you that i think he needs to kind of convert how he wins not all the time but because you look in for context i mean this is a dude that like the 733 cone 35th percentile 20 yard shuttle 4.57 19th percentile 31 inch vertical 23rd percentile like he's a significantly below average athlete for a guy that's already borderline undersized um massive hands and he knows how to use them you brought that up with caesar i mean he's somebody that like that long arm really really working i i thought he had a good first step like it's not even the testing was weird to me me too he's a better athlete than that i didn't see the testing and just write him off. Like he's still in my top 25 edge players.

He's still a day, like a firm day three grade. He's probably hovering around a fifth round grade for me, but you, you really do have to balance pretty good tape and really bad testing. And then you watch the tape and you're like, okay, there's,

he had that. We talked about this over the summer, the fake long arm to dip move. I remember we talked about this over the summer the fake long arm to dip move i remember we talked about this over the summer he did it against utsa i was like this dude like he he is you know i'm not going to call him a master of his craft but he's into his craft he's trying shit that's why it's tough for me right to put him any lower than again like i gave him a fourth round grade and basically basically you either see him as a mid-round prospect or you probably see him as like borderline undraftable yeah it's

probably not a big in between there because either you like what you see from his pass rush iq and his football iq enough to say like all right that's gonna that's gonna work enough in a league or you go he's not big enough he's not fast enough he's not strong enough i'm not really taking him so yeah i mean he's he's definitely a tricky one he's really tricky so at 18 i have giovante gene baptiste okay from notre dame yep um formerly of ohio state uh 17 i have gabriel murphy from 16. I'm surprised about that one. What, you thought it would be higher? Yeah, I don't know why I thought you really, really liked him. Not that it's crazy.

He's in my next batch. Okay, I mean, he is sort of fringe, like late third, early fourth round for me. Okay. I like him, but there are some other pass rushers that I like more. 16 is where I have Brandonon dorlis but like dorlis is tough for me i think people are going to hear him as like 16th as the edge on the edge rush show but i'm probably going to have him higher overall on like the pff big board because

i genuinely am torn between like where he is if he's an interior defensive lineman or an edge rusher, his weight and where he's going tells me that he's going to start his career as a defensive end. But I think he could be a really good interior defensive tackle. Like I can't remember what I said on the show, but I probably would have had Brandon Dorlis as like ideal six, ideal seven. Like he'd have been in my top eight interior defensive lineman in this class.

He's the 16th edge rusher. I wish he went more of the defensive interior route because I think he'd be better at it, but it's just kind of a weird in-between. It's a deeper edge rush class than it is an interior defensive line class. So when people listen to this and they hear it and they go like, whoa, you're way lower on him, but you're way higher on the big board that's why i think he's got multiple skill sets and i think that's why i went up with him a lot higher on the big board but um he was yeah he was 16 for me so that's my uh that's my 23 16 so okay we'll get into so we can talk about murphy because i have him at 14 okay uh with murphy let me pull up all right i wrote him up in full a while ago. I wrote compact pass rusher, quick feet, short arms,

very odd projection at the next level. Like he's played with his hand in the dirt. He's played standing up from all alignments. I mean, UCLA, they'll use them over the guards and centers at times as well. He's a guy that he wants to play with as much space as possible because he does not want to get into that length battle like in close quarters as soon as he's locked up it's like i don't really have the length to get out of here and yeah and that's a that's a really really big issue i think he's very skillful which is kind kind of the theme of the UCLA front four, front seven.

Just the fact that he knows how to swipe hands down. He'll use an arm over that's very elusive. He's somebody that, to me, he doesn't have that knockback power and typical edge-setting strength. I don't think he's going to be on the field on early downs right away, where then you have to be the master of your craft as a pass rusher that has physical limitations. So Murphy Murphy was a bit of an enigma for me because I think the tape is good and he is a guy that wins his reps at the college level and he does it without just being a freak show out there.

Like there is technique and refinement which doesn't like we talked about this the guys that were around lot to they all just kind of it kind of spread to them where it's like okay i know how to use my hands i understand how to have a pass rush plan but definitely a guy that the length issues and the overall lack of speed to power could be a problem at the next level right i feel as though, I really liked him a lot when I was watching him during the season. But then, you know, you see the testing, you get the measurables, you watch a little bit more of the tape. And I cooled a little bit on him.

I felt like he could be, you know, maybe a late second, early third round pick initially when I was watching him. But he just doesn't have the build to be that kind of a player. I mean, he's first percentile wingspan zeroth percentile arm length zero yeah zero yep um and when it comes to height and weight 18th percentile height ninth percentile weight and that's at 247 you know i don't really know how much bigger this guy's going to be able to get so obviously as an athlete compared to other edge rushers he's really good like the other percentiles are in the 90s and the 80s you know and so it's I think that

those scores are really good and that it's why ultimately I like him more than his twin brother because I think Grayson uses more power than Gabriel does and I don't really think the power game for how both of these guys are built is the more translatable one. Instead, I look at Gabriel and I say, okay, well, if you are going to be a difference maker in the league, it's because like what you said, your handwork is so fast. Your block shedding is so fast. You're not letting these offensive tackles get into you and get into your chest. You're just keeping yourself clean the whole time. To me, that's like a pass rush specialist. I don't really know what Grayson is because Grayson wins right now with a lot more speed to power, with bull rushes, with leverage,

and he's not nearly as quick in the finesse game parts of pass rushing. I think that fades a lot more with their measurables in the NFL than the quickness does. So I like him. And again, like I could see a good contributing role for him as a preferred pass rusher. I've just cooled since I watched him in the middle of the season for those reasons. Right. It totally makes sense. I think our grades are very, very similar for me. Where do you have Javante Jean-Baptiste from Notre Dame?

He's outside my top 20. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to me about him. I was very frustrated with him in Mobile, and I hope it didn't just like sour me into what, like when I started watching the film on him.

Sure. Oh, the Mets broke up a no hitter. The season's not fucking lifeless. Eighth inning. They went 13 innings without a hit today. Double header. That's all I'll do in the show today in terms of mets interruptions incredible no the people need more of it sorry sorry gene

baptiste i i killed your moment nobody especially the mets should kill your moment but please talk to me because i thought down in mobile it was just a guy that you know struggled to find ways to win and when i watched the film i had a little bit of nervousness carryover. But this is somebody that clearly has a high upside athletic profile. Yeah, and I think that he's just like, he's a high effort player too. You know, so he played, he played for how many years at Ohio State? I think he played five years at Ohio State. Yes, and then grad transferred Notre Dame, I want to say.

Yes, yeah, because he's a six-year guy. So obviously, like, it's taking a little while. Quite a few of those today. I know, man. Quite a few of those. You didn't even bring up Miles Cole. Miles Cole will turn 25 years old during his rookie season. Hey, he can rent a car.

He could rent a car. Think about that. He has four years of beer drinking under his belt if he pleases. It doesn't look like it. If he still chooses to partake um okay let me just read my scouting summary really quick for please okay uh after a five-year career at ohio state gene baptiste transferred to notre dame for his sixth year of college ball and he had his most productive year this past year his preferred alignment is in a 3-4 outside linebacker set

especially given his weight which he weighed in at 250 so. So he's almost 6'5". So he's 6'4 and 5'8", which is 71st percentile, but then 250 is just 15th percentile. He brings ideal height to the edge position at just under 6'5", but his arm length does not quite match that and he won't be winning with length at the NFL level. His first step explosiveness, lateral explosiveness, and pursuit speed are all pretty impressive. He is a big athlete on the edge. When he gets on the hoof to run and chase, he really stands out. However, as a whole, his power profile is definitely lacking. When he gets his hands and leverage right, he can mitigate strength concerns, but he needs to add weight and density to not get pushed around nearly as much in the nfl my final kind of thoughts on him there are flashes

of it is flashes of impactful speed rush elements for gene baptiste that paved the way for a pass rush specialist role as a 3-4 outside linebacker but whether he achieves that or greater, he must get stronger to do so. Grades pretty well. He had a 55th percentile pass rush win rate that includes the last two years. Run defense grade was an 84.7 despite some of the strength deficiencies. Run stop percentage was 87th percentile. So I think there's room for him to be a decent outside linebacker edge prospect at the nfl level he's just got to get stronger and more dense in order to be able to really do it round out that pass rush profile i mean listen that's that's a really good explanation of um the the fact that him getting stronger is so much more important. That was my issue.

Like when hands were under his pads, it felt like, oh man. He's getting moved. There's a jolt is the word I was looking for. He's getting moved. And that's always a scary thing at the NFL when, you know, you're not exactly a master at eluding blocks. And I didn't think he was a master at eluding blocks. Yeah. I watched one game i watched his highest graded game iowa when he was at ohio state and that was a pretty nice

game to watch of him like that's a that's like the flashes of okay if all this stuff comes together you see the handful of plays that he can give you every single game you go okay definitely do that we got to keep in the edge rush our rotation. So are we good? Do you want to talk about Miles Cole or no? We're moving on. Quickly, I just thought he was somebody that for a 60-year player, you know, the lack of production and making plays on tape, incredible length, like incredible length.

But I did not think he was strong for his size. He's on the ground a lot he didn't have good balance he didn't really know how to disrupt as a pass rusher or a run defender he more was a you know can i read and react run defender with my length i don't have like a ton of you know groundbreaking thoughts but i just think a 60 year player where the green light didn't come on in that conference with all of those tools, somebody, you have to draft him because if an NFL defensive coach sees those kinds of tools, not just the athleticism, but the freakish wingspan, like let's see what we can do that maybe they couldn't figure out.

But it was a frustrating watch because it felt like a guy that should have been so much better. I watched him. I got one game in and I was like, why are you bad? That's literally what I said after three games. I was like, I'm not angry watching the film. He's got no college production, right? Like, what's his season high sacks? It's like three and a half.

And he had six years to do it. He grades very poorly at PFF. He's got no backfield production. And I watched this dude for one game and I was like, why aren't you good? I don't, there are some there, dude, the way that this guy can get off the ball, the way that he can stack and shed the effort that he plays with, how much of a bitch his length is to deal with as an edge rusher. Like I here, let me let me read you. What's the last kind of line that I say to him?

It is often futile to say that a six year player with low production and low grade still has potential. But Cole does. I don't, I don't know how else to say it. I don't really know how to quit this play. And so I gave him a fourth round grade and I understand like his production says nothing close to a fourth round grade, but I,

it's so hard for me to, when we're talking beginning of day three, look at this guy and not draft him. I mean, this is, hold on. I'm pulling up his mock draftable right now. 92nd percentile height, 82nd percentile weight, 98th percentile wingspan, 99th percentile arm length. And he still ran a 79th percentile 40 yard dash, had a 71st percentile vertical jump and a 73rd broad jump. All right, he didn't do the agility drills. Yeah, why do you think? Because he's massive. That's not how he's going to win.

He's big, he's giant, he's explosive, and when the light comes on, right, when he gets off the ball at the snap, when his arms go up and get fully extended, and when he maintains leverage, I mean, he put offensive tackles in hell. Now, we didn't see it nearly enough, and especially, he put offensive tackles in hell. Now we didn't see it nearly enough. And especially when he put them in hell, he didn't know what to do next. There wasn't like a boom, push, pull. I'm ripping you to the side. There wasn't a club rip move. If he was close to the outside, there wasn't this sick arm over inside move. And so like that stuff, it's like, why, how did you go six years in college? And you don't have those moves that you can conjure at any point in time. Cause I feel like he's got the explosiveness to do it.

So yeah, I look low production player, but I had to get that off my chest. I watched him and I was just like, come on, man. I, I, you gotta be better. Like this guy's infuriating. So, so truly infuriating. He is sitting at edge 23 for for me right now but that that's still a little bit more fluid outside the top 20 okay so all right give me 15 through 11 let's do that okay so 15 is it jaylex hunt yeah baby nailed it is man this dude he's like he's the one where

i gotta be 12 you want to get crazy with it you do you watch him and you're like so for okay let's let me you know i don't want to say dummy proof this but just start from the beginning because i i can't assume everybody's true sicko status like us and they're watching houston christians jaylex hunt a transfer from cornell that was a defensive back and i believe he played wide receiver in high school yeah he played wide receiver uh he was all county his senior year at wide receiver yeah he played safety at cornell now he's going to the nfl as an edge rusher as a six foot three and three uh three quarters almost six four 252 pound edge rusher yeah that just to put it in perspective of like what kind of freak show we're dealing with here i mean 80th percentile arm length

80th percentile 10 yard split 46440 37 and a half inch vert 95th percentile broad jump like this is like that guy that can probably show up to play the pickup game and he's just doing a windmill dunk and everyone's looking around like yeah well like we should go home yeah this is his freaky stuff fitness like i'm just doing this after yeah yeah yeah like i'm just trying to not tear both my acls and carry them home and like i'm trying to blow off some stress from a yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to not tear both my ACLs and carry them home in my knapsack. I'm trying to blow off some stress from a 9 to 5. I'm not trying to get absolutely yammed on at 6.30 p.m. This is my only cardio is jogging up and down the gym,

and I'll shoot a three from the parking lot to feel alive. I was going to say, I'm here to be a trailing three-point shooter. Please do not yam on me in transition. Yes, let me try to Caitlinaitlin clark this from half court and then i'll go home after i airball it or just completely brick it so jaylex hunt is 15 for me we'll have that conversation i'll just rip through these 14 was gabe murphy yep um 13 was austin booker 12 was marshawn neiland and 11 is brandon doorless who okay i don't think you're crazy for where you have him i just got to the point where i didn't even know what to do with

him yeah it's he's just really hard to place in this class it's so hard to place where i almost kicked him back to d-line again for like the seventh time right because he just doorless is weird i guess that's an easy place to start as i have him at 11 um there are so much physical gifts and i like that he can play up and down the line of scrimmage and i think he plays well up and down the line of scrimmage he is the guy once again though that is he versatile or is he a man without a home? Is he homeless? And I don't, I still don't know. I'm obviously, I'm at 11.

I'm betting on that. He's versatile because he's a really good athlete. There are key flashes. He was a big part of that Oregon defense. And I, I did come away watching him thinking like, I think an NFL coach that really likes him for their scheme is going to get a lot out of this guy,

but he, yeah, he's a really tricky one where the rest of these guys are are not in my opinion yeah like you know i like dorlis um i'm a fan of his it's it's tough to place exactly where he's going to be in this class he would be the classic and and this is something that i want to get better at at pff as we kind of move forward to future draft classes like i want to get better at at PFF as we kind of move forward to future draft classes. Like, I want to get better at being team specific with some of our projections with these players.

And he is one who, like, I would love to have him at different places on a big board for different teams. Because if you're, it's hard to think like, okay, an even front team is really even going to value him that well because what are you putting him at five tech i guess you could but i don't know how much value he's giving you as a five tech that's the question you want to put him at three okay well he's got to gain weight again to get back to three technique spots which is fine like he played defensive tackle at oregon for his first two years like he was between 290 and 295 for his first two years

he was in oregon and i felt like his first two years. He was in Oregon. And I felt like that was a good spot for him. Loses a little bit of weight. And it's like, okay, you can still play three tech at like 385, but now he's going the other direction. I can't remember what he weighed in at the combine,

but 283. Yeah. So, I mean, like he's kind of going the opposite direction, man. If he wanted to play interior, he'd have to be somewhere around like 290,

but he's not. So, um, I think he played this past year, like around 280 flat. I like him. And here's some of the strengths that I have for his game. Offensive tackles, not used to his strength when he's lined up on the edge. He's got really good punch of contact.

He is quick enough to win inside, which is why I liked him on the interior as a gap shooter, a three technique. His club move is absolutely devastating. I mean, he's just absolutely punching the crap out of these guys when he's putting a club move on him. Very powerful long arm, which again, I think is very effective against offensive tacklers who are not used to that type of strength. But when you play him on the edge,

if you play him in any sort of two-point stance, he's got a very high pad level. I also think that just because he's trying to get up the arc, he's going to pop up very quickly. So the leverage, he loses a lot of his natural leverage stuff when you put him at the edge, even when he's in a three-point stance. And I just think that he's kind of like sloppy with his run defense at times. So it's just hard to know what to do with him. I think he's a really good football player and I think he's going to be a good NFL player. It's just

hard to place him in one of these rankings because he's going to be all over the place. It definitely is. So who did I have in there? We talked about Gabe Murphy already. Who did I have in there that you think I might be high on or it's going to cross over with you or anyone like that? So, well, I mean, I could just name my five my five yeah name your five and then we'll figure it out we'll do okay so 15 for me is austin booker so we're kind of close with the austin booker

connection 14 i have brennan jackson from washington state who you guys there too yeah um 13 i have javon solomon nice 12 i have jaylex hunt and 11 i have braille in trice so I got I got try okay just outside of my top 10 okay if you're wondering yes I have not as a I have not named Xavier Thomas yet no you haven't correct okay we'll get there yeah could you add him at 17 18 18 18 yeah so well let's talk about jaylex han okay again i already read off the measurables like i said somebody that has had a windy weird road i mean converted db he's got the length he's the explosiveness. I think he's a draft and stash gem. He plays fast. He constantly just outran the offensive tackles outside shoulder,

which in his level of competition. Okay, good. You got to do that. But when he arrives at the quarterback, it's, I mean, it's a bus driving through a barrel, right? Like it's just the quarterback explodes dude he's dense dense violent dense when when he makes contact with somebody like you could physically see they feel it right like he's 252 and that's 21st percentile but for example like

uh giovante geneaptiste is 250. So he's two pounds difference, right? Like, I could go to Chipotle and I could make up two pounds real quick. Like, depending on if we got a guy with a heavy hand with the double meat and the double rice, like, I could make up two pounds. Give me the George Karloftis. If I just hammer the Karloftis, I could make up

those two pounds and those two guys could weigh the exact same. But it's very different because I watch Jean-Baptiste and I go, okay, your power profile is lacking. You don't have that density in your body. I watched Jalix Hunt and I go, I am way more confident at you at 250 to handle NFL offensive linemen and NFL power responsibilities that I am some of these other guys. And I think that is a big, that is to me, the first area of, even before you get to how he utilizes the athleticism and all that stuff, do you have the power to play at 252? And certainly the Houston Christian tape, I mean, he is just blasting these people. You're just laughing.

You're out. You want to see that. You want to see. There's a play. There's a play that I believe it was Jalex Hunt, right, that I DMed. Didn't I DM you, EJ, and Brett? Yeah. there's a play that i i believe it was jaylex hunt right that i dm'd didn't i dm you ej and brett yeah yeah we've got a little group chat yeah yeah here it is i'm watching it now jaylex hunts on the edge and there's a there's a running back out of the backfield where he's trying to lead block for the quarterback who's running like off tackle and the running back just runs up to jaylex hunt and hunt deep

like just fully de-cleats this man into oblivion yeah and it's like okay sure you won't be able to do that stuff at the nfl level but if you're that dominant with your strength level some of that stuff's going to translate pretty well so like that's just he's so dominant in the strength point so that's the box you want to check are you you know going to be able well. So like that's just he's so dominant in the strength point. So that's the box you want to check. Are you, you know, going to be able to handle the NFL trenches as a converted DB? And the answer is the toughness and tenacity is there. It's just figuring out how to counter, not get stuck on blocks.

And as a run defender, he's just shooting gaps and blowing up plays because he can rather than, you know, being asked to set a hard edge against a bigger player. And it's just growing things. And I think he can grow on all those things because he can rather than you know being asked to set a hard edge against a bigger player and it's just growing things and i think he can grow on all those things because he has so much physical ability yep yep i like him a lot i mean he's i think the lateral agility for him is also very very impressive like i i see a player who is probably going to be that like three four outside linebacker, that developmental player, like you were mentioning, but this is somebody who can really attack both shoulders of an offensive tackle. Like this is somebody who can absolutely get two steps up the arc, put his foot

in the ground and immediately go back inside and get across the face of offensive tackles. That'll probably just be trying to grasp at anything they possibly can and um you could use that for obviously if you're in like wire alignments and you're trying to attack the outside shoulder with speed you can use that for um tackle end stunts for him to crash inside i think he'd be great 100 so this is a really nice speed rusher who like i said like i have a lot of faith in with the arm length and the athleticism and the body density so i got him at 12. okay so who did read that through again i just want to make sure i have your 15 to 11 right i got austin booker brennan jackson javon solomon jaylex hunt braylon trice we should talk about austin booker next we should talk about austin booker he's another you know enigma in this class where the testing and the size in terms of the weight

is concerning but the flashes everywhere not just the one-year starter flashes but the senior bowl flashes yeah of the moves he could pull off and how he could set up tackles and how he uses his length to me with another guy that it's shocking to see how bad the 10-yard and the 40 was because I think he moves pretty well on the field. I'm worried about the testing, man. I mean, this is somebody that before that could have been in the top 10 of our edges and he's not in either of us i know and like i i think austin booker i think you using the word enigma is such a good word because there's so many things to like about him right but you look at just his scouting

profile as a whole and he's just gonna be either a really good bet for some teams or some teams just aren't gonna want to take the chance at all so So he, he was at Minnesota before he was at Kansas. He was only in Minnesota for two years, played a little bit, but not much. And then he goes to Kansas, basically like a one-year starter at Kansas, but he didn't even play that much at Kansas because he didn't get hurt this year. So it's like, and then he, and then he declared as a redshirt sophomore. I would have, I would have now I get it like, Hey like hey you know like i'm never going to tell anybody hey don't go to the nfl and get paid like this is this is not that conversation but i think austin booker is talented enough to where he could have absolutely dominated the big 12 and just been

a stat stuffer in the big 12 next year and i i wonder why he didn't opt to go do that and instead went to the NFL. And I think that you could tell his body was also not really ready for that because, you know, was he really? It looked like he bulked up to get to 240, right? I thought so too. And 240 at edge rusher is third percentile. So you bulked up to get to 240? Well, then and then he tested like shit, which makes you wonder, was he carrying too much weight? Right.

And so now the only way for me to excuse poor testing at that weight is for me to think, okay, you probably played closer to 230 flat. Because he looked good at senior bowl practices to me. What did he weigh at senior bowl? Well, no, he was around the same thing, right? Was he the same? But he looked good on the field. I thought he was 242.

So he looked good on the field. And so that's why it's tough because there's a lot of, I think, checkpoints that he doesn't hit. But if the film's the thing that matters most, I mean, he's extremely slippery. That's the word that I kept coming back to with this long, gangly edge rusher who was just like, you know, he'd take one step towards the outside shoulder and then it was just this whoop, like right in front.

He would just be so slippery in between the tackle and the guard. He had a great feel for getting into the backfield. The long limbs and the effort made him really tough to block. The pass rush play. Now, this is an area where I wish he was a little bit better. And again, I think this could have been way better with another year in college. Right now, his pass rush plan is,

I'm going to take two steps forward. I'm going to read whatever the offensive tackle does. Are they going to overset me? Or am I even? What are they doing with their hands? Now, I'm not saying that those things are bad things. Being conscious of what the offensive tackle does and countering is advantageous. But there are times when I want you to play a little bit more patient. There are other times when I want you to dictate how this is going to go. I want you to, before the snap, say, I'm going to get off the ball so fast. I'm going to hit this guy with a cross chop, or I'm going to hit this guy with a club rip, or I'm just going to chop the outside hand. I'm going to bend. I'm going to rip. I'm going to get chop the outside hand. I'm going to bend. I'm going to rip. I'm going to get around the end and I'm going to get to the quarterback.

There are times when I want you to be patient, but there are other times I want you to go dictate what's about to happen. Well, because in the NFL, the timing's not the same. You are not going to be able to sit there and be patient in the NFL because if you waste half a second waiting on an NFL offensive tackle to screw up, let me tell you, they're probably not going to. They're starting at the NFL level. So that's why it's like there are things that I really like about Austin Booker.

But then there are other things that just hold me back from fully investing. So I gave him a third round grade. I know some people are a lot higher on him. But I would still love for a team to draft him back into day two, let him develop a little bit, because I think he is going to take a little bit of time to develop. I don't think he's going to be a guy that you could play out there in year one. Hope he proves me wrong.

Hope he gets 15 sacks as a rookie, but that's just how I see it with Austin Booker and why he came at 15 for me. It's the movement skills, right? I think that it looks different on tape, and it's something that with the right? I think that is just it looks different on tape. And it's something that with the right coaching and with more seasoning that you either have that or you don't. And he's got it, but it's everything else that he needs to figure out and just has not played a lot of football. Yeah, we got to talk about Solomon because I think it was some of my favorite tape to watch. Yeah, I mean, because obviously he's just so productive, right?

Double digit sacks. Not just double digit sacks. It was like 17. I think it was 17. Which. And he played off ball linebacker his whole career before this year. That's what's crazy. It's, you know, he's like, he's like the college version of Hassan Redick,

right? Where he's been playing off the ball and then he's like, he's like the college version of Hassan Reddick, right? Where he's been playing off the ball and then they're like, okay, let's let him rush the passer, even though he's kind of built weird. And it's awesome. It's just awesome when you watch him because he's, let me get his exact combine measurements. He is not even a full six one. He is six feet tall and seven eighths, 246. So zeroth percentile height, eight percentile weight.

But he's got long arms. So he's a 34 inch baby, 11 inch hands, 11 inches. He's just like this, like kind of shorter guy walking around with these giant meat hook, can't I can't he? It's like they they like just I don't even know how to like built in a lab, but like, you know, like the height went wrong in a way. And it doesn't he's really, really excellent at winning on the outside. And it's not just let me get off the ball and run by the tackle and see what happens he can euro step he can throw his inside hand on the outside hand and kind of swivel and turn his body and get the flexibility in his hips and ankles going like he is he's loose i

really like him i actually am almost sitting here i wish i had him a little higher there just wasn't the floor with Solomon. Because I was between him and Jackson, right? I had Brennan Jackson just slightly over him. Because Jackson to me with the power profile and just, I don't want to call it reckless abandon, but the dude just plays like a million miles an hour every snap and is pretty tough. Where I'm like, I like the floor.

Solomon, it could be a gem of this draft, but he's just such a weird outlier in so many ways. And then, you know, we, we saw he got, he got a little banged up that first senior bowl practice, right?

When we were standing there, what didn't he twist an ankle or I want to make sure I'm not mixing him up. It might've been someone else. Who is this? Solomon. No Jackson. Or did Solomon also do that?

Maybe not. Cause Jackson was Jackson was the one where I was watching them warm up in a drill and he hit, they, they were up against the, the field goal posts and they're just doing, you know, like,

okay, like hit a spin move here. That's what I was thinking. Like practice the move. And he hit the spin move and there was a pile on like the pile on that was sitting there and he didn't see it. And he like rolled his ankle on it that was brennan jackson right so yeah i mean when it comes down to it for me you know you you

have to take your swings on outliers at times you just like we're gonna have that we have this conversation jaylex hunt is an outlier he's a developmental player uh javon solomon is not a developmental player he's an outlier he's one of the most productive pass rushers in the country yeah he is there's really nobody in the NFL built like him dumb and I brought up Hassan Redick because Redick's a really weird one right like Redick's like 6'1 Redick's pretty well built but I'm not saying solomon's hassan reddick that's a ridiculous thing to ask yeah he there's just not a lot of guys built like this but i think his ability with outside speed wins now if you have him like hey it's first down and rashaun slater is coming at you

i get that's where it's it's hard right projectable roles i don't think he's an nfl run defender right now because there's really nobody in the nfl playing on the line of scrimmage defending the run that's at that build right now so i the comp that immediately popped into my head was uchenna nuosu that's a really good one because he's he's kind of a weird one and he's been really good for seattle right and he's like small and it took a little while with the mosu right and nuosu is not as as small as as solomon is but they're sort of around the same like nuosu is barely above six foot two 250 pounds right solomon is almost six one um 246 pounds but then solomon has those 33 and 7 eighth inch arms and nuoso has 33 and 5 eighth inch arms so it's like both of these guys are below 20th percentile

for height and weight but then they're above 50th percentile for arm length which really really matters yes so i and the reason why i like javon song a lot more than height is because when and we'll actually get to another player uh near the very top of the list who is also like this but when you are a shorter edge rusher now you don't want to be too short but when you are a little bit shorter of an edge rusher and you just have long arms well then all of a sudden you have natural leverage and then you have natural length. Like you have both of those advantages. Normally you got to pick, right? Normally you got Miles Cole where, okay, you're winning the length battle, but you're, you're

always going to lose the leverage battle or you are always going to win the leverage battle, but you're always going to lose the length battle. So to be a little bit shorter and to have longer arms is actually a almost like a best of both worlds so i also like him a good amount i think that he is uh got the potential to be an impact three four outside linebacker guy who could really contribute yeah fun player to watch on tape yeah all right we've we've bounced all over here uh is it time for the grand finale of the top 10 10 to 6 yes let's do it yeah okay 10 to 6 uh number 10 i'll say that one of my favorite players in the entire draft mo camara from colorado whoa

did i just blow your mind whoa brother i don't have mo camara in my top 20 wow okay now to be fair i think he is 21 okay because because look i i like mo he's just small he he is he's taller than solomon but he doesn't have the arm length right but he doesn't have he doesn't have no arm length it's not great he's he's over 32 inch arm length. I mean, all right. I am so surprised that you have in this high. I've been and I like him stupid high on him. Let me read that. Let me read the 10 to 6 because I barely have to talk about the other guys.

We talk about them so much. OK, nine is Adiza Isaac. Eight is Braylon Trice. Seven is Darius Robinson. Six is Chris Braswell. OK. Mo Camara. seven is darius robinson six is chris braswell okay mo camara let me just get to the actual full write-up here yeah please do because and here's the thing like i'm i've i had that reaction that i did not because i don't think he's a good football player right you didn't like cooper bbm i wish i wish i was higher on mo Kamara because love the effort on tape.

Oh, it's great. It's awesome. Really liked when when he was able to kind of like pin his ears back when I was watching him at the Shrine Bowl. Love them there as well. But in both instances, you just the lack of length shows up for. But please, I don't I don't mean to spoil it. You have him at 10. You tell me about,

and you tell the people about Mo Kamara. If he had length, I'd have a true second round grade on him. I have a third round on him. Iroh is a fire hydrant, built edge rusher, and plays as hard as anybody in this position group.

Like, I will put his effort up against anyone's. Kamara overcomes his unusual pass rush build with pure tenacity he plays fast and heavy-handed rarely stalemated throughout his rush there is sneaky flexibility in his game to turn into the pocket even when he's engaged with blockers the way he can turn his hips and ankles while in the hand fight and do both at the same time it's not like i'm engaged let me try to counter, but my lower half stops working.

Everything was always working in sync. And that is a really, really key component. I think he's at his best when rushing from a wide alignment where that long runway gets the speed to power just cooking where he's shorter. He has leverage.

He can get under your pads. Once again, the heavy handedness um it the 10 yard 91st percentile 10 yard split this guy that he can get off the ball he explodes off the ball i put that you know against the run he's just more of a gap shooter uh rather than that read and react defender. It gets him in trouble at times. Overall, the tape shows a pass rush specialist that can grow into more despite being an outlier from a height, weight, and length standpoint. I'm looking at Mokhtar Athabal right now,

and I'm just looking at some comparisons for him. Nick Benito is actually the highest percentile comparison. 81.4 percentile. Benito, same thing, kind of like third percentile height, 11th percentile weight, 10th percentile arm length, but 91st percentile 10-yard split, 93rd. Oh, no, this is Kamara himself. Hold on.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Going to Benito. Benito was 6'3", so 30th percentile weight, 248. That's 7th percentile, but he had 30th percentile, weight 248. That's 7th percentile. But he had 87th percentile 10-yard split, 96th percentile 40-yard dash, 80th percentile vertical jump, 76th percentile broad jump. So, I mean, just explosive player. Man, I just, I like Kamara.

Now I got to go back and, all right, where's the, where's the scouting report? Now we got to get into this bad boy. Yeah, it's just the big detractors, right? I don't have many negative things to say about him. Like his weaknesses category for me is lower. He grades really well at PFF. His pass rush win rate was awesome. His pass rush grade was awesome.

His pass rush grade on true pass sets, 92.2. I mean, awesome stuff, truly. I just wonder if the measurables are just a complete deal breaker for him. Sure. Now, I still have him. This is kind of like a, where are we here? Like late fourth round grade.

So we're not that far off that we're not that far i could tell you where i had him on my last big board was i i i think i just see a lot of in between fourth rounders in this class yeah more than you do oh he will not be drafted where i have him okay he will not be right baby i have him in the top 75 he will not be drafted where I have him. Okay. But you're just trying to be right, baby. I have him in the top 75. He will not be taken in the top 75. You're trying to be on the right side of history. I respect you for it, dude. This is my bet.

I always have one bet in the edge class. Sure. This is... You know, 7-2 off suits. Got no chance in hell. But you're going all in, baby. Don't care. You know?

Let's see 7-7-2 on the river from Okamara. Let's see it hall of fame oh if it hits though we're getting the boat again another boat the casino riverboat we already got the yacht the casino riverboat if mo camara is a hit the boat camara that's what yes yes the mo boat the mo boat i'm all in man. I really just some of my favorite tape I watch. And I know I know like they I've been saying outlier a lot on this show. And I've been one of the number one things I was taught when I was coming up and scouting was like, do not bet on outliers. Like really pick your spots. And this is this is absolutely called picking your spot.

Okay. All right. For me, because I know we'll have conversations about who I have at 10. Funny enough. I have Xavier Thomas from Clemson. Right. That's our other big gap because I'm an 18. Yeah. Yeah.

Marshawn Nealon for me is nine. Darius Robinson for me is eight. Chop Robinson is seven. And Adiza Isaac is six. Adiza over Chop. Correct. I mean, it's not like some people are like, whoa, because they've been so ingrained in their brain about the Chop hype for a year now. It's not the craziest thing at all.

I think before we talk about them two together, shall we talk about who? Xavier Thomas. Xavier Thomas. Yes. My brain is short-circuited. Like totally unplugged. Really good football player, man.

He is. Five-star edge rusher as a recruit. I think he was the number three overall recruit in the country in 2018. It was him at number, Trevor Lawrence is at number one, and he was like two spots below. So it was an incredible recruiting class from Davos Sweeney and Clemson to get both of those guys. Now, Thomas, it was kind of a winding road for him.

I think he was an All-American freshman team, but he kind of like – he just didn't really have that same sort of pop in the years that followed that. 2022 was kind of supposed to be his big year, but he suffered a foot injury that caused him to miss, shoot, I think a lot of games he missed. It's like a lost season. Five games, returned to play against Boston College, re-injured his foot in practice again, missed the rest of the final six games of the year. So I mean, he barely played in 2022. And when people go like, okay, how did this five-star edge rusher, why are we talking about him as like a sixth year player at this point, being in the top 10? Well, one, I think he could have come out in 2021.

Yeah, he could have come out in 2021 if he wanted to but he went back and tried to have a nuclear year in 2022 yeah gets hurt and so you're not going to leave now off of an injury year so now you have an entire another year here in 2023 and look he he's i i get it it's been a longer more winding path than we've wanted to here but he's just still so good if you ask me. Super explosive out of his stance, really stresses out offensive tackles on the outside shoulder with how well he is able to burst off of the snap. Relentless pass rush style. I mean, he will take on as many blockers as he needs to to get to the quarterback. Loved his effort there. The feet are incredibly quick from him. Hands equally match the feet when it comes to quickness.

I mean, if you are not an elite processor or anticipator when it comes to offensive tackle play, this dude's going to put you in hell. Like the way, the speed of his feet and his hands, I mean, you are not going to be able, unless you are already anticipating where your hands are going to go and how you're going to fight him and mitigate that stuff, he's going to give you lots of fits. Some weaknesses for him, likes to use the long arm move, but will likely not be effective with his length at the NFL level.

Overall size is somewhat of an issue for trench play. Looks to be pretty maxed out at 245 pounds and he's an explosive player, but the shorter strides do affect how much ground he covers when he gets off the snap. So, look, I gave him a late second, early third round grade. Again, love this dude as he can be a stand-up edge rusher for you because of his height. But I also think he's very comfortable and explosive from a three-point stance, too. So, even for even front teams, he could be a rotational defensive end that could really get after the pass or certainly on third downs to start. And then he could develop into a potential starter, I think, as things go on for him. So the way that final points for him, Thomas is a true low floor, high ceiling prospect. He's on the older side, but his natural athletic gifts are

still worth taking a chance on to continue to develop as a password specialist to start and a potential starter after that. Talk to him. Listen, a lot of tape. I mean, six year player, somebody that is similar to Camara, like undersized and cross height, weight, length. I didn't think he had the burst off the ball that camara had which separated them you know far apart from me you didn't think he had the same burst no whoa i didn't and now i will say i the dreaded clemson defense every year where how many times are they really given the chance

this happens to every prospect they have uh but the things I really liked, I thought... And he is, let me correct that. He has good bursts off the ball. I didn't think it was Kamara's level. Like, Kamara, to me, it was like... Well, Kamara obviously tested a little bit better in the 10-yard split, but for whatever reason, I just think that, you know,

I guess his physical build is the reason. Thomas, they're pretty similar 40-yard dashes. Like, Thomas gets up to the same speed and explosiveness that Kamara does. I just think the strides are a little bit shorter getting out of his stance. So, which matters. Obviously, I mentioned that that part matters. I gave Thomas a fourth-round grade. I actually thought, like, I came away liking him more than I even thought

because he's kind of been a forgotten man. When you play that many years, when you were once upon a time, a potential top 50 pick. And it's, he's just a forgotten man in this class. And when I, I wrote him up actually two nights ago and I was,

when I was done, I'll just read the right. I'm like, I was like, I actually really like him plays with his hair on fire. Fires off the ball to keep this and keeps the same energy across four quarters. Does a good job balancing getting under blockers pads and swiping away their legit uh fires off the ball to keep this and keeps the same energy across four quarters does a good job balancing getting under blockers pads and swiping away their hands to win with

speed even when he doesn't win his rush attempts he disrupts passing lanes by getting his arms up to disrupt throws in the run game thomas is a middleweight fighting in the heavyweight arena offensive linemen are able to drive block him off the line of scrimmage, leaving gaps exposed. He does lack the size to be a three down defender, but his energetic nature gives him a shot to crack a rotation, especially with his experience, both standing up and with his hand in the dirt. So.

Interesting player. I like him. You really do. I'm a big fan. Shall we get to... I had Marshawn Nealon, Darius Robinson, Chop Robinson, Adiza Isaac. Anybody else you want to hit on that

before we get into the top fives? I was a little frustrated with Darius Robinson because it's the doorless conversation in a weird way at times. Yeah, except not as athletic. Right. Now, here's the thing robinson's just straight up a better football player than his combine tester that's why i still have him as the seventh edge he's just a better like the floor is still really good like it's not really

i should never say a floor player is really good that's not fair there's a floor there that exists that you're comfortable with in the top 75 picks. When he was thrown in the first round of mock drafts, this got out of control. Right. I agree with you. I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you. So he is a really solid football player that had a really good week in Mobile. And everybody was like, we have first round. OK, actually, that's not how this works.

But I do. I just think he's not how this works. But I do. I just think he's a good football player. But what did he run in the 40? Now, it doesn't totally matter. But he's not that athletic on film. He's strong. Yes, he's just. He's big and strong.

Yeah, look at this stuff. As an edge rusher, height, 86th percentile. Weight, 91st percentile. Wingspan, 95th percentile. Arm length, 84 at this stuff. As an edge rusher, height, 86th percentile, weight, 91st percentile, wingspan, 95th percentile, arm length, 84th percentile, hand size, 96th percentile. Then you get into the actual athleticism of edge rush play. 10-yard split, 12th percentile, 40-yard dash, 16th percentile, broad jump, 25th percentile, vertical jump with 71st percentile, which you love to see. But the explosiveness, that's what he does. He's not a real edge player he's got a really nice first step and he gets into your chest and he'll shove you back he'll win with speed to power he'll win with just straight up bull rush

he's you know you need the runway speed but um he's a powerful football player i just again first round was was too rich for me yeah and you And you just got to wonder, you know, what is the best utilization of a player like that going forward? Yep. Do you want to break down Adiza over Chop? Yeah, I mean, I can.

I just think the floor is higher for Adiza and I think that Adiza is a really solid football player, man. Adiza is. I do. Like, I think that if...

Because what did he weigh in at, Isaac? I can't remember what his... I'll pull it up right now. Where is... He was 247. so he was yeah 247 so like that's honestly like the big because you look at the rest of his profile very well rounded yeah tall long arms tall long arms i mean like decent 40-yard dash decent 10-yard split decent vertical jump pretty good broad jump as well so like this is to me this is a really good football player. He's just got to gain a little bit of weight and get a little bit stronger.

And to be fair, two years removed from the Achilles, it feels like it's going that direction. I mean, if you tell me that Adiz Isaac's going to comfortably play somewhere around 255, I'm good with that, man. Oh, easily. I think that that's a second-round player to me. comfortably play somewhere around 255. I'm good with that, man. Oh, easily. I think that that's a second-round player to me. I think that's a, is he going to be edge one for you? No. Can Chop Robinson be edge one for you?

Yes, I get it. But I'm way more worried about Chop because he didn't have the backfield production. It's sort of the same issues that I have with Xavier Thomas, where he's got the short strides. Sure, he explodes off the ball, but he's not covering a ton of ground when he gets off the snap and what's the number one thing it feels like edge rusher defensive coaches want you to do get up feel get up feel yeah get even with the offensive tackle get around the outside shoulder and for Robinson he's doing it because he's very explosive and doing so but the stride length is so much smaller it takes him

longer to do it. And then he's got the short arms because of it. He doesn't have the measurable build to be a really good run defender. So now I'm talking about, okay, is he just this like rare, I'm not saying that they're both the same, but like Hassan Reddick type of a player where you just put him in the game and he's getting a sack? Like, is he going to be that good?

I don't know. It's tough for me to say that. So Chop is a higher ceiling than Adiz Isaac. I won't take that away. Right. I can find a lot more ways that Adiz Isaac can get on the field, I feel like. It's just Chop's more liability in the run game. He's just not built for it.

He doesn't have that length. To me, Chop wins right now off of just being more athletic than everybody else. It's why his backfield production is bad and his pass rush grade and his pass rush win percentage are good. Because at the end of the day, when the ball's getting out of the quarterback's hands or when his part of the play is done, he's probably winning or beating his offensive tackle.

But the reason why he's not getting there quick enough is because of the stride length. It's the length deficiencies. And he just doesn't have that pass rush profile outside of being way more athletic you just it's very rare that you win like that at the nfl level so he's got a lot of refining to do in order for him to be an actual really well-rounded consistent starter somebody that you can depend upon and honestly somebody that can unlock some rare athletic traits. So that's why I had Isaac over Chop. I'm worried that there's a lot for him to learn,

for him to be a backfield monster. And really, for these Isaac, all I'm really worried about is just get the 255, man. Take two years, strength and conditioning. You've got stronger. Yeah, just get a little bit stronger. And I got you as a really solid defensive end. Right. Isaac knows how to play the game, too,

where he'll work his outside speed to set you up on the inside later in the game. There's a plan there. There's a craft there. All right, so five to one for me. Number five is Utah's Jonah Ellis. Yeah, baby. Which I can tell you and I are going to be high, high man on Jonah Ellis.

I think it's fine. We've been for a long time for his chop Robinson. You summed it up really well. There's so much bus potential there, but there's also so much boom because of how gifted he is athletically. And then the next three are all tiered together for me with layout to lots of Dallas Turner and Jared Burse being my top guy. We've had the conversation amongst. Okay. So you have you have if you if you got a one two three it's versus one Turner's two Latus three okay all right all right so for me I think it's flipped for you yeah for me Jonah Ellis is five right um I have Chrisris i have chris braswell for okay i don't love it yeah wait he was the guy

and mobile where we i just wanted i know that's a great that's a great people come to this podcast conviction in our rankings conviction that was me halfway through the show. I was like, am I too low on Javon Solomon? What have I done? What have I done? I love this player. Why did I have him at 16? Yeah, yeah. What the hell is wrong with you, brother?

No, Kamara's not in your top 20. Did I just put a UDFA in my top 75? So Chris Braswell, he's still just potential to me, right? I wish he wasn't as much potential as he is as a registered junior, so a four-year player. But like, when the light comes on, man, I mean, this past year, over the last two years, 90.4 pass rush grade, 90.1 pass rush grade against two passing sets,

18.5 pass rush win percentage, that's 94th percentile. Like, the dude can get after the quarterback. He's super explosive. He's built really well. He just doesn't have much of a pass rush plan. He's got a bit of a false step in his game right now. He's still learning the timing of pass rush moves. He's a bit stiff when he's coming up the arc.

He doesn't have as much bend as I wish he had that was the number one thing for me because i know i know he can rush with power and that's the thing yeah he speed to power is nasty speed to power is there's knockback power where you're like yeah that's gonna work in the nfl so i'm just kind of trusting the athleticism there and then for me i'm in the same boat like they're all three in the same, in the same tier versus three for me, Turner is two and lots who is one. And they're also different.

They are also different, which has made a lot of these conversations very fun, but you know, versatile women power Turner's going to win with Turner was the other guy that I was alluding to that. I was teasing that he is, uh, let me make sure that I have the exact measurements up here. Dallas Turner is six foot

two and three fourths. So he's under six foot three, but he has a 83 inch wingspan, which is 88th percentile. He has a, he is 21st percentile height and 88th percentile wingspan. He is barely under six, three, and he's got the wingspan of somebody who's six foot nine right it's inspector gadget kind of stuff it is and then latu is just uh like we've said so many times an absolute black belt when it comes to the hand usage and the passers moves and it's just he's he's unblockable 22.3 pass rush win percentage over the last two years 99 99th percentile, folks. I mean, it's just when we talk about PFFs, one of PFF's signature metrics that we have is our wins above replacement or wins above average metric.

He had by far the highest of the edge rush group this past year, year and day, 0.51. 5-1. So for quarterbacks to be worth anything above half a win alone is nuts. Right. Incredible. I mean, for reference, Turner, his highest was this past year at 0.27 versus his highest was this past year at 0.29. I'm trying to see if anybody else was higher than that uh chop robinson was 0.35 just because of the passers-by percentage is insane um so like his was up there but just nobody else was close to i think where um oh braylon

trice was 0.40 because of just all the pressures that he was able to manufacture. Right, of like 14 against Washington State. I know, yeah. He just, I feel like he was a bully against bad opponents. He, as Mike Francesco would say, he's a bit of a compiler. Like where, yeah. But I mean, not a bad player by any means. No, he's not. And I love his mentality.

I think he could be a really nice depth piece for three defensive end but yeah anyways I mean did you want to touch on any of those guys in the top five didn't mean to go on a tangent no you're good I think with you know for me I really like versus floor with the hand usage the speed to power how bet much better he's gotten the weight he's put on the way he plays the run the way he stepped up in big moments there's just so much to like with jared verse of what he is today and the same could be said for latu i mean latu is going to come into the nfl and he's going to be able to counter get all throw counter moves and get off blocks and be really creative in his pass rush plan i think

he was a better athlete in the testing than even we expected, where you're like, OK, with lots of like full transparency that, you know, there's always going to be concern about the medical retirement with the neck issue. And it's I think if lots who didn't have that, he'd be going 10 spots earlier in this draft and where he's going to go with Turner. Turner's fascinating to me because you almost come away from the testing not and you know he's a great athlete on film you're not surprised by any of this but you're like why aren't you even better like why aren't you the number two overall pick in the draft that and I think that's a conversation a lot of people have been afraid to have with Dallas Turner and I don't think I don't think it's an insulting thing I think it's just one of those areas where dallas turner's a really good prospect he plays fast he has explosive speed i think he is a really good finesse rusher and the way he

can elude blockers right and i think he could do things off the ball that 90 of edge rushers can't like you could look at dallas turner and, Hey, dropping his own coverage. Hey, run with a running back in the flight, right? Really good stuff. Is Dallas Turner using his explosiveness to convert speed to power? Is Dallas Turner strong enough right now to be like a true three down force in the NFL? Is Dallas Turner just always going to be a guy that wins by eluding blockers rather than kind of throwing the change-ups there and being like, oh man, he threw his hand into me and I lost my balance. Because he has the profile of a guy that should be an elite NFL prospect, and he's just a good NFL prospect.

I think he's better than just good. I'm being a little harsh there because I have the guy in my top 15. I completely understand what you're saying because I think he's better than just good. I'm being a little harsh there because I have the guy in my top 15. I completely understand what you're saying because I think you're right. There are things about Dallas Turner, the combine testing, the measurables, everything where you go like, hey, why are you not talked about in the top five? Why are you not? And I know he's the betting favorite to be the first defensive player off the board, but I don't think he will be, by the way. I think a lot of that has to do with the Falcons desperately needing edge rusher.

It's going to a three, four. And that being the reason why he's kind of like a runaway there, not necessarily because he is a runaway himself. Right? So his game is just, it's, it's still too finesse right now when it comes to run defense and when it

comes to pass rushing with a well-rounded profile when it comes to power. And if Dallas Turner right now is just who he is, it's still a really good NFL player. But we've got two really good players in Jared Versus and Laatu Laatu who are also in this class. And I'm so very tempted to put Jared verse above Dallas Turner, but Turner, it's just that potential of his athleticism.

And it's like, okay, if he can get a little bit stronger, we are talking about a guy who's man, just so special and gifted athletically and has the met all the measurables that you would want. So I kept them at edge too, but he does to to me, even more so than the other two. Latu leaves a little bit to be desired athletically, and Vers leaves a little bit to be desired when it comes to flexibility and some speed finesse parts of his game. But even so, I would say that Turner leaves more to be desired than those two in their

deficiency categories in his deficiency category of playing stronger, playing better, playing with more power. Uh, hopefully that made sense to everybody out there. I think it made a lot of sense. That's kind of how I see the top part of this, uh, of this address class. So well said, there we go. I think that puts a bow on it. There we go. Let us know what you guys thought of our obviously heavily convicted takes. Hey, we had a couple in there, all right? Don't come for the Chris Bradwell moment too hard.

I don't feel good about it. Look, you had Kamara in the top 10. I had Xavier Thomas in the top 10. We obviously had a lot of takes. We would love to hear yours as well. Let us know in the comments section. It's the best way to get your takes off. And and for us to see that be able to go back and forth with you guys we mentioned there's a handful of edge rushers that even did not make our top 20

that we're sure you guys want to hear about so please let us know if we have watched them we'll we'll throw a comment in uh or a reply to your comment so we can have a little bit of a back and forth you guys can um hear what we think about all those prospects is an exciting address class. And so we would love to hear what you guys think as well. Right? Again, this is not just a podcast where you guys listen to our rankings. Tell us yours. We're in April now. Like we know you guys have watched these players. Tell us who you got. Give us a top five, give us a top 10, whatever you're comfortable with.

We would love to see it. And I'd love the community to kind of interact with all these rankings to see what everybody thinks best way to do that youtube comments youtube.com backslash at nfl stock exchange if you are listening on audio only x and instagram at tampa bay tray at connor j rogers that's the best way to reach us um connor you got anything else before we get out of here i have two things one it is not about the mets no it's not about the mets they. They wanted to walk off fashion. I no sold it. I didn't even smile when it was down on my other monitor.

I was like, I was happy inside, but it's not about the Mets. I think a popular name in the comment section will probably be a Yabi Enoma from Charlotte. Oh, yeah. So when at some point point especially after everybody's drafted we'll spend a lot of time on day three players especially somebody like that that massive recruit uh windy windy road with a lot of different stuff going on there and still a legitimate prospect and then uh number two i just want to say this before we sign off because this these episodes are such a good reminder to me. These episodes we do together, where we go through 20 different players, I was thinking

about this when I was driving to work the other day, because I was driving to do some draft tapings, have made me, I don't want to say better evaluator, like I'm one of the best evaluators in the business, but such a more well-rounded evaluator that i have these conversations with you for almost two hours going through players thinking things that matter things that might not matter as much what you saw in guys that maybe i didn't see the first time around like everybody talks about the top five top 10 players but these conversations about the top 20 and some of the guys that didn't make the top 20, like this part process, uh, this show, it's so fun for exact episodes like this, because I think it, it has benefited my personal process so much. You and I are individual evaluators. We try to rank over 200 prospects by ourselves.

Um, and I just want to say, and I hope people that listen to this feel the same way that also evaluate or just like to talk about the draft in their spare time or follow the draft as a hobby. How much I love these episodes. Dude, look, rankings are fun. Conversations are even better. It's so much better. It's great to feel convicted and to say like who I would like to take in a ranking of certain players, but it's way better to hear why. Right.

And I agree with you 100 percent. I'm glad that you feel that way. I feel the same way. Hopefully the listeners out there do as well. This is so much fun to hear the why, to hear, okay, why are you so high on Mo Kamara? Why are you so high on Javon Solomon? Why are you so low on this player?

The nuance of how we get to this point, I hope is always a entertaining thing for everybody out there, but I also hope it's super educational. Y'all who are listening to this podcast, again, we mean it. We don't just say this because comments help the YouTube video. This is fun for us. We do this because we love it. And hearing different perspectives, I always have the same feeling of like, it's either going to fortify your opinion and what you think, because you'll be able to defend what you think. And you'll say, no, no, no, actually,

I see it this way. And I think this is correct. Or you'll see something a different way. And you go, damn, I didn't think about that before. Actually, let me go back. And so that's why I agree completely, man. Going back and forth with you, because I respect your scouting eye and your scouting opinion and everything that you do with your process so much when we do these episodes we we we don't just not reveal our our list before the show because you know we're we're not good planners it's also because it is a lot of fun to like like if i were to send you my ranking or if you were to send me your ranking like it'd be tempting to not be like, ah, damn, Connor's got this guy way lower. Let me go back.

I got to bring this guy. Of course. It gives you a chance on the show to say like, Ooh, not only instant reaction, but also like instant why. So I'm glad that you said that, man. I enjoy that a lot too. Hopefully everybody else out there enjoys it as well. All right, man. Another one in the books. Another one of the books. We got another episode of the collab mock draft series coming for you at the beginning of next week.

I won't tell you who it is. All I will tell you is that this was the most requested guest that we had and you guys are not going to want to miss it. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait to get to it. Until then, I'm Trevor Sikkim. That is Conor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. We will see you on Monday. Bye.