NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 27. Guest Mock Draft Series: Jaguars, Lions & Texans (with John Shipley, Chris Burke & John McClain)

Episode Date: March 24, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers kick off the Guest Mock Draft Series with three great interviews and picks. John Shipley with Jaguars Report, Chris Burke from The Athletic and John McClain from the Houston Chronicle break down the inside info from the Jags, Lions and Texans, and each make their mock draft pick at the top of the draft.

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I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. On this episode, we are kicking off our 2022 guest mock draft series. What happens in this series is Connor and I have a beat reporter or

team expert insider, whatever it is, on the show in mock draft order to tell us all about the team. Give us the inside information, how the season went down, what's going on with the coaching staff, the roster, the team needs, and then ultimately have our guests make a mock draft selection in order, seeing what we have 1 through 32. It's a really great exercise to learn a ton about what these teams are actually thinking. On this episode for the Jacksonville Jaguars, we've got John Shipley. For the Detroit Lions, we have Chris Burke.

And then at number three for the Houston Texans, we have the one and only John McClain. Very excited. As always, I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me is my co-host, Connor Rogers. Let's get after it. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I am Trevor Sykema. That is Connor Rogers. This is day one of the guest mock draft series. One of our favorite series that we're going to have on this podcast where we're going to go down the line.

Order one through 32, a full mock draft. But in doing so, we're not going to make the picks. You see us make the picks all the time. Instead, we're going to have a team expert on. We're going to interview them, talk to them about the team situation, what happened last year, a coaching staff change, player changes, what the outlook might be for 2022, what they might be drafting at the end of April, and then have them make a pick. It's a really cool exercise. Once it all comes together, I'm very excited to get it kicked off. But Connor, before we get it kicked off, what we're going to do before all these guest mock draft episodes, we're going to have a little like 10, 15 minute segment at the beginning. So Connor and I can still get off our NFL current event takes and buddy to give people a peering

behind the curtain. Yes, go ahead. This is take two for us because we actually recorded this part yesterday. It was Tuesday. And then Tyreek Hill got traded. So we got to pop on and update people. The crazy offseason only gets crazier. My friend, your New York Jets were right in the middle of this. So what was going through your head when you saw this bombshell hit the timeline

this morning? I mean, it never fails, right? It was so funny, dude. I woke up. So like Trevor said, him and I recorded Stock Exchange one day earlier than we traditionally do. So I looked at my Wednesday and I was like, man, I have a Twitter spaces at two and I have to do a podcast at 730, which for me this time of year is a day off. And I literally woke up. I looked at my girlfriend and I was like, for the first time in so long, that's not a weekend. I have a prep day.

Like I could prep for my shows. I could scout more players. I could work on all kinds of draft stuff that is just looking ahead. And you thought I woke up. I had a bagel i did some work on my big board i swear i stepped foot in the gym and the shifter tweet came through that the jets and dolphins were working on a we're in serious talks oh no fire tyree kill and i'm just i just was like it was like, then you got to do like emergency things for every single show you do.

Right, right. You know, at the end of the day, it actually wasn't as insane. If he went to the Jets, it would have been even 10 times more insane. But still, I mean, we got to talk about this from a draft angle. The Chiefs get five draft picks. Three of them are from this year. Now they have 29 and 30. Gut feeling.

They got to package something and come up in this draft and get Pat Mahomes a wide receiver. Tyreek Hill, still 28 years old. Amazing speed for the Dolphins offense

along with Jalen Waddell. My goodness, man. I mean, I'm at the point where like, am I going to wake up tomorrow and Justin Herbert or your Kyler Murray trade comes to life?

Right, right, right. I just don't know what to expect anymore. This was something in a million years I never thought would happen dude it's crazy because we we did the hypothetical trade episode on tuesday and if we would have thrown this out there even as like the crazy trade people would be like this podcast is stupid yeah you're idiots but that that has been the embodiment of this entire nfl off season and how absolutely hammered drunk it is. This trade was wild because we got the initial Schefter report in the morning, very first thing, that the Chiefs had given Tyree

Kiel permission to seek a trade. And in my mind, I tried to look at this from a different point of view. And I was like, okay, Tyree Kiel was looking for an extension. He's been looking for an extension for a little bit. He saw what Devontae Adams went for both in trade and the money that he got. He knows that the AFC West only got way better this off season. He also knows how valuable he is to the chiefs offense. And it was basically, I thought this was essentially the chiefs were allowing him to explore a trade. Yeah. Go find your money. Because Tyree kills demands were probably so freaking high,

like insanely high. And the chiefs are like, okay, yeah, go find it somewhere else. You're not going to get it. And unfortunately the feelers went out there and two teams immediately became interested in the Miami dolphins and New York jets. So I originally thought that this was simply just kind of like part of the negotiation, leverage one team against or one camp against the other. And eventually Tyree Kill was going to be back with Kansas City because come on, man. I mean, let's face it.

Look at that Kansas City Chiefs roster. How much lifting has Tyree Kill, Travis Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes done for that? The rest of that entire roster, defense, offensive line, two years ago, it's a little better. Now the run game, like those three players in specifically have made the chiefs, a super bowl favorite the last three years. And if you take Tyree kill off of that team, Patrick Mahomes is still incredible. Don't get me wrong.

Ty or Travis Kelsey still an unbelievable tight end don't get me wrong but that ain't a Super Bowl favorite anymore so I never thought that this was actually going to come to fruition let alone for the price tag it did Miami gave up one first round pick and it was number 29 it was number 29 that's insane they didn't give up a single first round pick that they had next year either, which is their own in San Francisco's dude. It was just, they gave him a second round pick as well, but I could not believe that things on Kansas city's end devolved so

badly with Tyreek Hill that they just traded probably the most irreplaceable offensive weapon in the NFL for the system that he's in because I cannot imagine a more important player maybe certainly since Devontae Adams has moved on than what Tyreek Hill meant to that Kansas City Chiefs offense so dude price tag was crazy uh things are about to get a little bit weird in Kansas City. I don't know how open that Super Bowl window is for the Chiefs anymore. I really don't. There's so much to unpack here. It makes you wonder, like,

why were the Chiefs willing to do this, right? A player that if you ask anyone around the NFL, he's the ultimate headache for a defensive coordinator. There's just not players like Tyree Kill not as fast not as as explosive not as complete as a overall wide receiver there is so much to this that I'm shocked I'm perplexed um I mean to the point where

I mean Trevor you know how long I've been around the Jets as an organization. They traditionally do not ever target players with a past like Tyreek Hill. Ever. And they were all in on this to the point where since they've operated that way, you have to get approval from every corner of the organization to go forward like that because you're also rewarding the player with a mammoth contract extension. Which they did. Four years, $120 million, which is nuts.

So you brought up the trade package. Yeah, $29.50, you know, five picks, a lot of picks, but also taking on a $25 million cap hit devalues what you get back for the player. So there's just a lot going on here. I've been told Tyreek hill has a home in miami so once i was told that before the trade happened i was like price income tax the home in miami rosenhouse the agent he's going to miami the jets are probably they want the player but they're also going to try to drive this price up

make miami's life a little bit worse there was so much to unpack here, but at the end of the day, the Chiefs have a big hole on their roster. I think it's fair right now that we should trust Brett Beach to fill that hole, not replicate Tyreek Hill, but try to get some of that offense back. Patrick Mahomes is a unicorn. He can make everyone around him better. Now they have a lot of ammo to solve a lot of areas of need or they could trade up and get jameson williams garrett wilson whatever it may be so i'm really fascinated by the chief's draft now they become a big component of the show while the dolphins waddle and hill you won't find speed like that really ever in the nfl a wide receiver duo but it everybody knows the elephant in the room is Tua. Correct.

I mean, I sent a text to somebody joking in the league. I said, Teddy Bridgewater is going to have a career year. You might be right. You might be right. I wasn't really joking. I was like half joking. So, I mean, when you look at this from Kansas City's side of things, they now have back-to-back picks as a schedule right now.

They're picking at 29 and they're picking at 30. I don't want to make it sound like I think the Chiefs are going to be bad now. I mean, the Chiefs are still going to be extremely competitive. Patrick Mahomes, like you said, makes even lower roster players look incredible. So the Chiefs are still going to be good, but that division is extremely competitive. And you know what else is? The rest of the damn conference, right? It's not just like win your division,

get home field for a couple of days or a couple of weeks in the playoffs. You know, you can coast a little bit, wait for the bills. That's the big face-off that you have. You beat the bills, you're good to go. Like that's not where the AFC is. They're going to have to,

they were already going to have to scratch and claw just to make it into the playoffs, given the division that they were in. And then every single week of the AFC playoffs is going to be a slug fest of talented teams. So man, without Tyree kill, it is hard to imagine that the chiefs are going to be able to keep up. Maybe Patrick Holmes will prove that, Hey, he's, he is that half billionbillion-dollar man and he makes it worth it. But when you look at this from a draft perspective,

now for the Kansas City Chiefs, you mentioned maybe packaging some of those picks to move up, go get a wide receiver. I mean, I could definitely see that, right? But if you're giving up – because if you're picking at 29, right, and you want to get up to, don't know like 12 12 13 14 something like that to go get like the wide receiver you want like you mentioned jameson williams you're gonna have to give up a lot so it almost might be just like this net trade jameson williams for tyree kill and then obviously for as good as jameson williams could be in the nfl

that's a negative in the short term you are not competing to the level you were with Tyree Kill on the field. For as good as Jameson Williams is, you mentioned it with Tyree Kill. You cannot play man coverage against the Kansas City Chiefs, or you couldn't for the last three years. You couldn't. Your defense could not play in man coverage because this dude would go off for 200 yards in the first half, like he did with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers when they challenged him to do that in the regular season. So I think that that might be what they're targeting, but even if they pull it off, it just feels,

it feels so hard to believe that they're going to be able to replace what they just lost, especially for this current core that they have. I'm curious. Do you think the chiefs went to the dolphins and said hill for wattle straight up because i don't know if they said that but that would have been extremely intriguing to me i wonder if the dolphins would have even considered it because like you mentioned the allurement of having both wattle and hill on the field at the same time is what makes it interesting yeah but i do i do wonder if they said hill for waddle straight up that's what we want i think i texted you before the trade went through that there was there was players being discussed at

some point i never found out exactly who um so maybe they brought up waddle and the dolphins were like hell no i know the jets never offered elijah more so i would imagine the dolphins never offered waddle but you're right it's interesting to wipe out all the picks and replace it with a player. But the thought process has to be these teams were, the Dolphins wanted Hill with Waddle, the Jets wanted Moore with Hill. You know, and it was just, it was fascinating.

And the fact he had the no trade clause, you know, allowed him to hold all the cards. The package the Jets had was a little better than what the Dolphins ultimately had. But it didn't matter because he controlled where he went. And the Dolphins was where Miami was where he wanted to be. So you're right. This trade could have been a lot more interesting if the Chiefs were able to get some kind of player back. I can even imagine if they got Xavier Howard back in the deal.

I thought he was going to be in it, man. I thought if there were players that were going to be in it, it would have been Xavier Howard from the Miami Dolphins. And then maybe Makai Becton from the Jets. Cause you and I have chatted before. If they, if they really love a Kwanu, if they think a Kwanu is going to be there for, then maybe they move on from Becton.

And I guess if you were going to move on from Makai Becton, thinking that you were going to just draft the offensive tackle at four, this would be the time to do it, right? For a player like Tyree Kill. So maybe I thought that that might go into the equation. It did not. So that, yeah. It was crazy.

It was really crazy. Yeah. And it's, it's just, you're right. It's fascinating to see what the Chiefs do. They got Juju. They have Josh Gordon coming back, which you're assuming nothing there, but you never know. That'd be nuts. Yeah. you're right. It's fascinating to see what the Chiefs do. They got Juju. They have Josh Gordon coming back, which you're assuming nothing there, but you never know.

That'd be nuts. You just assume nothing there. You assume they're going to draft a wide receiver in the first round. You know, Mecole Hardman season. It's, I don't know, man. It's interesting. I'm still buying the Chiefs.

I will never pick against Mahomes necessarily, but in that division, I still think the Bills are the best team in the Chiefs. I will never pick against Mahomes necessarily, but in that division, I still think the Bills are the best team in the AFC. But this is a blow and changes the identity of their team. I think they're going to have to be a more well-rounded, very even split team in terms of run-pass and

not just rely on Tyreek to be a superhero, which he was for them a lot at times. In a week's span where we've had people with two people with terrible backgrounds be traded for massive halls. Strange. I think it's a little weird to discuss, in my opinion, but we obviously have to do it. The I think the dream scenario for the Chiefs at 29 and 30, like the dream is Olave at 29 Ojabo at 30 like I think that that's that's the that's

the home run that they're trying to do but it feels very I'll basically say impossible for Olave to get by the Green Bay Packers twice at 22 and then 28 before they get to 29 so what might be more realistic is if Kansas City doesn't move up which i agree with you it feels like there's momentum to it maybe like christian watson and david ojabo which again they're gonna athlete this thing right but like again those are good players but christian watson still needs work on like route running and things like that and he still needs work at play strength like you said ojabo's coming off an achilles injury. Those do not help the Kansas City Chiefs make up for Tyree Kill this year. So I don't know, man.

I never saw this move coming because it puts the Chiefs in a big-time rut. If you think a lot was on Patrick Mahomes' shoulders the year before, I mean, it just takes that to an infinite level now. It does. It's a lot of pressure on him. I think he's built for it, but it's crazy, man. It's crazy to look at. You know, let's not discount that Kelsey's obviously not getting younger.

He's still amazing, but he's not getting younger. How old is Kelsey? Is he in his 30s, right? Yeah, yeah, he is. So Kelsey is 32. Oh, my God. He's going to be 33 this year? During the season, he is. So Kelsey is 32. Oh, my God. He's going to be 33 this year? During the season, early season.

Yeah, Mahomes is going to be there for a decade, and you're going to see a different Chiefs offense start to be built around him. And this is a big test point for Brett Beach, obviously Andy Reid, and how they're going to do that with the pieces they have now. And, I mean, I do believe in it, but it's definitely going to be fascinating to watch that offense without Tyreek Hill. Man, Travis Kelsey is 32 right now.

He's going to be 33 in the season. He's on the cap for $8.5 million this year, which is a really great deal. But then next year, as he's 34 in the season, it goes up to 14.6, the next year 16.4, and the next year 18.6 so all of a sudden all of a sudden travis kelsey is getting significantly older and significantly more expensive for the chiefs so like if tyree kill is not next to him dude this chiefs team as we

know it might be might be closing a lot faster than we thought it was earlier on Monday of this week. Oh, man. With Mahomes, though, I'll never say that. No, no, no. No, no, no. Oh, the window. The core they have. Yes, yes, yes.

Correct, correct. I mean, shit, I didn't think this was happening this week. I thought the deal would get done. If you did, you better tell me the lottery numbers for next week. That's all I'm saying. One of us better get rich here. When you had the theory that this was a leverage play i was like it all makes sense like you took like you're like okay like they have the jets and the dolphins bidding against each other we're jacking up the money and then there's going to be that last minute phone call

okay you're going to jersey or you're going to miami for that price or you're staying with everything you love here for a pretty dang good price. It's not the oppositions, but it's close. And it feels like it was just real. They were like, no, it's over. Find your trade spot. We're done. Look, I tried to logic my way into the situation

and clearly this NFL offseason. I saw you. I appreciated it. I agreed, though. Like, I really did. I think it made a lot of sense. I, I can't get over that.

This happened. You know, it doesn't make a lot of sense. This entire NFL off season. So I guess it may it's, it's, it's more in line that it didn't go along with my thinking than the other,

than the other side of it. We obviously talked a lot about the Kansas city chiefs. Connor mentioned it there. It's huge for the dolphins. I mean, basically it's all on two shoulders now right i mean the offensive line they went out and signed to run armstead they've got the offensive weapons around him they signed some running backs as well i mean this is this is it man it was it was kind of like the

baker theory the year before when we were talking about it like how much more can you put in front of this guy and think that a franchise quarterback for both of these guys because they haven't proven it yet can really like if you have to essentially like spoon feed these guys are they the franchise quarterback for you so to uh look offensive line aside like i get it needs to get better to better look good this year that's it or he's gonna be out of miami pretty quickly but he's got everything in front of him uh let's get to the guest mock draft series before we get to it got to remind people 25 off at any pff subscription if you don't have one yet if you use the promo code

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to premium content like the inaugural draft guide in-season strategies feature release announcements and so much more follow them at all 22 underscore pff on twitter it is premium fantasy football powered by pff we got the jaguars the lions and the houston texans up in the guest mock draft series let's kick it off right now all right to kick off the guest mock draft series we have a familiar face for the jacksonville jaguars at number one he actually picked for the jaguars at number one last year when we did this series it is john chipley who writes for the jaguars report and one last year when we did this series it is John Chipley who writes for the Jaguars report and John I'm just going to call it good luck because even though they're back here at number one which isn't great they did get Trevor Lawrence last year so I'm

gonna give you full credit for that if you will accept it it's all because you were on the series last year oh yeah no that was that was a pick that was definitely against the grain you know not many people had that one penciled in. So we really went, you know, went on a lamb on that one. But yeah, no, I'm happy to be here back to back and hoping that this is the last year I have to represent the top pick for you guys. Right. We'd love to have you on next year, but hopefully the Jaguars for Jaguars fans sanity are picking a little bit later. And, you know, before we get into, you know, the team, because you know it very, very well, you're very into the draft as well.

And so I'm super interested to pick your brain about where they need to go with kind of this topic and even some topics at the, at the following rounds as well. We got to talk about urban Meyer. And I know that you're probably so sick of talking about this situation, but Mike Sandoe and Jason Jenkins from the athletic put out an article earlier this week that the quote that they use as the headline was the most toxic environment that they've ever been around. And that was a player that said that to them talking about the urban Meyer

Aaron, we don't have to go step-by-step. I think we all saw that in the spotlight plenty, but as somebody who covered this team up close and personal this past year, how bad was it? Like, it wasn't really this bad. Cause on the outside, man, it looks like the worst head coaching job in like football history. So I'd love to hear it from your side of what this last year was. Yeah, no, I re I really don't think there's a chance that, you know, a head coaching tenure could go worse because I mean, Urban Meyer, you know,

immediately sold himself on, you know, shotgun and really, you know, the local, you know, Jaguars community when he first got there in a way that, you know, the city, you know, pledged to, you know, help fund a new practice facility for the Jaguars. You know, it's now going to be the quote unquote Urban Meyer practice facility that he will never, you know, have spent a day, you know, being a part, you know, being a part of, you know, he, and really I think that once, you know, things actually got moving in the sense of, okay, you have to actually evaluate like an NFL coach. Now I'd say, you know, the red flags really came up in free agency where, you know, I've said this in other podcasts, but there's a genuine belief that he operated under the idea of, you know, some people will want to sign with us, you know,

just because I'm a remark, you know, and it will even take it will even take lesser contracts aside from me because I'm Urban Meyer, which clearly not the case in the NFL. You're just one of 32 head coaches. These guys, unless you're Bill Belichick, in some instances, could probably care less. So it definitely, everything that looks like it was from Urban Meyer on the outside, it was very much what it looked like. It wasn't something where it was any better middle line on the outside, it was very much, you know, what it looked like. It wasn't, you know,

something where it was any better in terms of, you know, behind the scenes or even, you know, from a local perspective players rallied around him or he was a different guy. You know, he was very much what it all seems like. And I mean, there were instances, you know, throughout the entire season where I can, I can think of where I was like, okay, that's a red flag. That's a red flag. I remember in the first week of the preseason,

they played the Cleveland Browns. And the Browns sat, you know, not just their starters. They sat most of their second team, too. You know, they had Case Keenum and a couple of key backups play. But mostly it was their third string guys and the Jaguars. You know, they played the whole, you know, first team. And the Jaguars got their teeth kicked in completely at first half, you know, while the starters were in. And Urban Meyer after the game, you know, first team and the Jaguars got their teeth kicked in completely first half, you know, while the starters were in and Urban Meyer after the game, you know, it looked like he acted like, you know, somebody who had just lost the national championship,

you know, the, like the deer in the headlights look was already on. And, and I'm like, this game doesn't even count. Like if you're, you know, you're looking at this, you know, this made by the state of things now, I'm not sure how it's going to be when the live bullets fly. And the best thing I can point to is I believe on their first possession, the game, the Jaguars had like two illegal, you know, like formation type penalties, a sack and a tackle for loss. And that kind of summed up how things would go for them the rest of the year. Man. Well, on a lighter note,

this is a team that's obviously turned the page. They brought in a respected NFL head coach and they've spent a lot of money in free agency and whether people agree with the moves or not this at a minimum should give them a shot in the arm and make them a little better and the fact is right now everybody's trying to connect the dots and look at signings and say what does this mean even the franchise tag for Cam Robinson what does this mean for their draft as we head towards a surprisingly unpredictable NFL draft starting at the very tag for Cam Robinson. What does this mean for their draft as we head towards a surprisingly unpredictable NFL draft, starting at the very top for once? When you look at these signings,

do you believe in that, that a lot of the pro market moves will have an impact on what direction they go in? And not just that one, but also when you're picking at the top around two and along those lines. I think a big thing, you know, the Jaguars, you know, obviously with the additions they made, you know,

they have signed seven guys. They have two more guys than Rashawn Evans and Arden Key who have come in, you know, for visits. Is that, you know, they realize they have holes, you know, all over the roster. You know, this is so far as seven players at six different positions. You know, technically five if you want to count Evan Ingram as a big receiver, which he more or less is.

But it's clear to me that the Jaguars, you know, knew that coming into this offseason, okay, we have holes up and down the roster and, you know, pitching, holding yourself and forcing yourself to pick a certain position at, you know, or a certain pick is probably doing a disservice. So I think the way they looked at free agency is let's try to hit as many targets as we can and get to the point where in the draft, we can, you know, take the best player available so they can end up, know in a situation where they're not reaching for you

know like you know specifically you know maybe a receiver at 33 you know now we'll be with their moves or not they can probably now convince themselves say maybe we don't need to immediately take a wide receiver is there anything that maybe either doug peterson or trent balkke has said over the last couple of months because we've got to see them at the combine and obviously the introductory press conferences for Peterson is there anything that they have said over the last couple of months that's maybe stood out to you from a team building perspective like has he brought up multiple times you know trench play or like defensive line or like a certain characteristic of a wide receiver or something like that I'm just curious is there any kind of like specific nuggets where like kind of was

saying maybe not even at number one who they might be prioritizing at the top of the second round third round those kinds of things yeah no i think absolutely i think one thing that you know they've said before you know specifically bulky who's been a little more uh i would say forthcoming with you know kind of some of his preferences and intentions, has said that he prefers building, especially with early picks, building in the trenches as opposed to going for guys like cornerbacks, guys like wide receivers. I looked at Trent Balky's history, and in over the 40-something picks

he's made as a GM, he's only picked a receiver seven times. And I believe he only has A.J. Jenkins as his top first or second round guy under his resume. That's certainly not a receiver, you know, you can hang his hat on. So it really, you know, you look at his resume and the things that he has said, you know, he has said they want to go big or go home in terms of, you know, the trench play. So I really think, you know, whether it's at one, which, you know,

I expect them to, you know, go edge rusher or, you know, it's at one which you know i expect them to you know go edge rusher or you know at the very least you know go some form of defensive line or whether it's later on in the draft when they can look at you know potential left guards potential you know tackles i think those things have been really indicative and i think really you know some of the things bulky has said specifically about their needs in terms of the offensive line has been interesting you know i mean they they entered this offseason with an offensive line that had, you know, three guys in the expiring contracts. Brandon Linder was entering in on the final year of his deal,

and it looks like now he's either going to be released or retire. And then you have Juwan Taylor entering the last year of his deal. You know, they since tagged Cam Robinson. They signed Brandon Scherf. You know, obviously they re-signed Tyler Shatley and have some other, you know, moves that need to be made, but they've expressed confidence at the offensive tackle spot. I mean, you know, somebody asked a bulky, you know, straight up last week about,

you know, do you feel comfortable at right tackle? And he genuinely laughed and like asked, he was like, is that a serious question? And well, a very much, you know, probably should be, you know, their team who they invested, you know, number 45 pick overall and Walker little last year, he actually, you know probably should be yeah their team who they invested you know number 45 pick overall and walk a little last year he actually you know had you know in very limited appearances but had a solid worky season for somebody who hadn't played in a few years and then they still have taylor so i think you know some of the things they've said in terms of they want to go in the

trenches but they like their tackles means that they're going to go for pass rushers on the edge in the interior and try to find some interior alignment. So the golden question, obviously, is Trevor Lawrence. And there was ups and downs last year, as every single quarterback taken in last year's draft went through. It's no different than anything like that. And I think you've obviously watched this offense a ton. When you look at it, and obviously most of these teams need multiple things, but what's the one thing that you constantly, week after week,

looked at and said, that's what Trevor Lawrence is missing and it's killing him that they don't have it? Yeah, no, they didn't have a big play threat last year, really, at all. Obviously, Travis Etienne missed the entire season with his foot injury. DJ Chark, he basically only played in three games because he got hurt on the first drive of the fourth game. He caught a sixth of Trevor Lawrence's touchdowns in, you know, the three games

he played. And he got peppered with targets in the few games he played. So it was clear that Lawrence liked going to a big-bodied receiver who can get open downfield and that's really what he missed last year. You know, guys like Marvin Jones, guys like Levisco Chenault, guys like Tavon Austin, who for some reason, you know,

started half the season last year. Those aren't guys that are going to win downfield for you. You know, Laquan Treadwell came on late in the season in some fashion and that kind of role as X receiver. But overall, it was just a big place on offense. You know, they had, especially when a play broke down and Lawrence would, you know, break out of the pocket and, you know, try to extend something. There was just, you know, nothing ever really there, you know, nobody who can, you know, really scare the defense and make

a big play after the catch and provide that kind of option for the quarterback. So I would say, you know, really just that, uh, that option who can kind of, you know, force attention on them from the defense and make big plays when needed. I think there's, there's three players that I'd love to hear your thoughts about that. I think how the Jaguars see them could go a long way into what they draft, how they prioritize certain positions. The first one is Caleb on chase on right. The second round pick out of last year or their, their second pick that they made in two years ago is draft.

So I, you know, I've heard a lot of ups and downs, people throwing around the word bust with him already. I'm curious as to what you think their mindset is with chase on there. And then the other two guys, you mentioned Travis ETN. I'm curious what the plan might be with Travis ETN because Urban Meyer drafted him. And I, I think Urban Meyer drafted him because he really wanted Kadarius Tony and he thought Kadarius Tony was going to be there. And then obviously he wasn't. So he just picked a fast guy. He talked about playing him at receiver. What's the plan with him moving forward?

And then the last one, everybody's favorite fantasy sleeper is LaVisca Chanel. You know, it seems like it's been a roller coaster of him at the beginning of the season. They said the ship hasn't sailed on them. Now it's like, okay, they bring on all these receivers. Maybe they're moving on from them. So those three guys, Chason, Etienne, and LaVisca Chanel,'d love to hear your thoughts on them, where you think the team believes in them. Yeah, no, Chason is a guy who was really well-liked by the staff in the front office that drafted him.

But, you know, the issue, at least, you know, when it comes to him, is the fact that these aren't any of those guys, you know, anymore. You know, Doug Marone and his staff, you know, Todd Walsh really liked him. Former general manager Dave Caldwell was obviously a giant Chason fan. None of those guys are still in the building. So Trent Balke was director of player personnel when Chason was drafted, but I haven't gotten any real indications that Balke is somebody who was even super high on Chason really as a prospect.

I'm more inclined to believe that he was somebody who the previous regime was a fan of. So now to me, he's somebody who I legitimately think he has to fight for a spot because, you know, last year he was more or less reduced to, you know, he would, he would sometimes be their drop end and their three, four looks, but, you know, you would more or less be, you know, their fourth or even sometimes fifth option on the edge. There, there, there were some games where he'd play, you know, 15, 20% of the snaps. And that's just because, you know, he does not get consistent pressure. You know, he's had flashes in a few games, especially, you know,

a certain stretch as a rookie, but I mean, you look at his career, he's been available. I believe every game, but one, so 32 games and he has two career sacks. Both of those have came against the Tennessee Titans. So, you know, but, but all of his other games together. And yeah, I don't know what it is. He's had career performances against the Tennessee Titans. So, you know, put all of his other games together. And yeah, I don't know what it is. He's had career performances against the Titans,

but for whatever reason, that just hasn't clicked with him. And I don't I don't see him as somebody who makes a lot of sense to their new scheme either. So I'm interested to see what happens with him. I think he's going to have to

legitimately fight for a spot. I think Travis Etienne is somebody who you hit the nail on the head. I really think that Urban Meyer, you know, he admitted last year that he wanted Kadaris Tony. And I think Travis Etienne is somebody who you hit the nail on the head. I really think that Urban Meyer, you know, he admitted last year that he wanted Kadarius Toney. And I think Urban Meyer, you know, for all of his many, many, many faults was right about the fact that, you know, the Jaguars, you know, didn't have any many big play threats on the roster, you know,

that he inherited. So I think it was right idea that getting exposed to playmaker, but you're taking a guy, you know, they should just taking a guy like Elijah Moore at receiver, you know, as opposed to taking a guy like ETN and trying to fit him on a depth chart that didn't really make sense for him. But I do think, you know, in Doug Peterson's offense, you know, that they actually do, you know,

have a scheme that can take advantage of his skill set out of the backfield, which, you know, the big thing with ETN is he's advantageous as a receiver out of the backfield. You put him out on a slot, though, against, you know, safeties and cornerbacks, and he doesn't really have that mismatch potential anymore. But out of the backfield against linebackers, he has a lot more, you know, really value he can maximize. And I do think their offense will help him do that more.

So I think he's in a better fit in their offense, but it really depends, you know, what what really he can do with James Robinson still, you know, what, what really he can do with James Robinson still, you know, returning from his own Achilles injury. And then finally, LaVisca Chanel. Chanel is a guy who I really think has still has talent. I think when you look at the bad season he had last year, and it was a bad season. I say that as somebody who hyped him up quite a bit in training camp and would like to apologize to any of the many fantasy people who needed my advice on that because it it just truly you know from the start of the season

when dj chart got injured and they kind of forced her not to okay try to learn x receiver and you know i this is something i mis-evaluated i thought he had the skill set to play on the outside he doesn't you know he needs to be really a power slot kind of guy, a guy who you can operate against smaller defenders and in short areas. And I really do think that he is one of the guys who the urban Meyer regime though really impacted the most. So, you know, I think it was clear watching him last year. There were a lot of confidence issues, a lot of issues where it was more of,

okay, this is just a really, really bad environment for a developing player as opposed to this guy just can't play. But on the flip side, you sign this is just a really, really bad environment for a developing player, as opposed to this guy just can't play. But on the flip side, you sign a guy like Christian Kirk, who, you know, Doug Peterson has said that he wants his receivers to play basically every spot and it's going to vary on game and he won't make a guy stay in the slot a hundred percent of the time, but it's still fairly obvious that Kirk is best operating on the slot. So it should not. So unless you're planning on, you know, operating with, you know operating with two slot receivers most of the game, it's hard to really justify having them both on the field at the same time.

So while I do think Chenault probably gets too much of a bad rep for last year, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move on from him for some kind of draft conversation because I do think he was one of the few players on their roster who you could probably get something for, especially compared to a guy like Chason. All right, this is the guest mock draft series. And John, as we said, you are picking number one

for the second year in a row. So there is an entire board to pick from. And we went through it. This is a football team that has spent a lot of money. They're trying to get it right for Trevor Lawrence. But there is no doubt they have their needs on the defensive side of the ball. So number one, overall, the Jacksonville Jaguars are on the clock. You are on the clock. Who is the selection? Yeah, I'm going with a Michigan edge defender, Aiden Hutchinson. Hutchinson is somebody who, you know, I'm not positive in every

draft that he's going to be looked at as a prospect who is, you know, clear cut number one overall pick, but the Jaguars entering this offseason, to me, it was, okay, they're either going to go offensive line or they're going to go pass rush. And for agency, you know, they answered some of those questions. You know, obviously, you don't franchise tag Cam Robinson twice if you don't, you know, plan on him being around for the long haul. They have got it like a walker little. I don't even think the Jaguars would draft a guard number one overall.

You know, they are the kind of team that would the guard number one overall. Yeah, they are the kind of team that would prove me wrong about that. But until they do, I'm going to assume pass rusher. And I really do think the guys, the Jaguars would love a guy like Trayvon Walker, just because Balky's history of liking, you know, those big lanky defenders who are kind of inside out tweeners. But I think ultimately they go Hutchinson and his high floor, high ceiling. So what's the thought with real quick, before we get you out of here, Kayvon Thibodeau versus Aiden Hutchinson, just like straight up, you know, you talked about edge rush being the spot that they're going to hone in on.

What do you think about those? Cause Connor and I have talked about those two guys plenty. We actually had Kayvon as our number one edge rusher, each going into it. But I'm just curious what your thoughts might be between those two guys there. Yeah. It seems odd to me that he's, it's gotten to the point where,

you know, at least you're seeing a national mock drafts now to where he's more like lumped in with guys like Jermaine Johnson, as opposed to guys like Hutchinson and Walker, because I truly think, you know, if you're picking a guy who has, you know,

potentially, you know, the best skillset today to become that kind of number one pass rusher, I think it's him. You know, I really you know, the best skill set today to become that kind of number one pass rusher, I think it's him. You know, I really do. The only real issue I have with slotting him and not wanting the Jaguars is, you know, just knowing how the Jaguars operate and, you know,

who they have, you know, really pulling the strings and making decisions for the team. I don't get the sense that Thibodeau is somebody who they're going to, you know, really deem as the right fit, you know, team-wise. You know, Thibodeau, for as talented as I think he is. And, you know, he's my personal number one edge rusher in a draft with Hutchinson right behind him. And then Walker,

I don't think that he's going to be somebody that Jaguars really look at as somebody, you know, both in terms of his fit, in terms of his, you know, personality, because, you know, none against Thibodeau because I honestly think everything that he said is awesome, but I just known how the Jaguars operate. He doesn't seem like a guy that, you know, Trent Baalke is going to be especially high on. That's just an assumption on my end. But I just I don't see him as a Trent Baalke type guy.

So I think they're going to go with somebody like Hutchinson, who they will see as, you know, similar ceiling, but a much higher floor. All right. There we go. Everybody go follow on Twitter at underscore John underscore Shipley does a fantastic job covering the Jacksonville Jaguars. John, I cannot wait to have you on this series next year. Hopefully not picking at number one overall, although it is tradition now, so we'll have to see. Appreciate you, my friend. All right. Thank you guys. On to pick number two, the Detroit Lions. Lions with Dan Campbell at the helm. A lot of excitement for that franchise.

And obviously holding the number two overall pick has a lot of excitement in itself. So to get us hyped up about what could be for the Lions' future, talk about the roster, everything that's going on with the front office and who they might be picking at number two overall, we have my good friend Chris Burke, who covers the team for the Athletic. Chris, how are you doing, my friend? Doing well. friend Chris Burke who covers the team for the athletic Chris how are you doing my friend doing well I'm excited knowing that no matter who I pick some group of Lions fans is going to be upset with it so that's uh exhilarating here I'm looking forward to it draft season baby yeah that's how

that's how it goes you can lay it out exactly with what makes sense and why it makes sense and somebody will still be in the comments calling you an idiot. Hey, that's why we do it. Right. We love the abuse. That's why we keep coming back to it. That's why we're draft nuts. So, all right, let me first ask about Dan Campbell, because obviously this guy was very polarizing when he was named the head coach of the Detroit lions talks in his presser about eating kneecaps and, you know, talking to all that kinds of stuff.

And I think people kind of thought it was a gimmick at first and hated the signing but as it went on you know there were players talked about how much they loved him and then the media was like hey you know what this guy's this guy's rallying the troops and everything it wasn't a great start to his tenure but you figured it wasn't going to be pretty early on what were your thoughts overall of Dan Campbell's first year and where this franchise is how much they might still believe in him moving forward. Yeah, I mean, I think some of the players, even talking to them, had the same reaction that other people do. Like, is this guy serious? Is this really what we're getting into here? But I think as soon as they got in the building, you know, you obviously felt the shift from what the atmosphere was under the previous regime with Matt Patricia that showed up right away. And I think that carried through the entire year. I

mean, you saw it, everyone saw that they were, they were bad. They started the year. It looked like they might go Oh, and 17 Oh, 16 and one, whatever it was going to be. Um, but they kept showing up and kept playing hard every week and picked up a few wins down the stretch. They played fairly well in November and December, even though they had a bunch of injuries. So I think that they feel like they've got a lot of momentum. They spent most of this off season, re-signing some of their core guys, making sure they've got that, you know,

foundation quote unquote in place. And so I think that they're feeling pretty confident. They're still don't have enough talent to really get where they want to go, which obviously is the next step here. But I think in terms of, you know, the culture and all those buzzword things we talk about all the time that it feels like it's,

it's the arrows pointing up for the first time in a while. Yeah, it really does. I mean, looking at this roster, it's already made some giant leaps from where it was a little over a year ago. You can start to see the wide receiver room fill out with what Amon Ross St. Brown did last year. You signed DJ Chark, give yourself a little bit of a vertical threat. We know this offensive line has been built up for a while. So just when you look at this team, do you think they are still in full on? We're taking the best player available because the roster we inherited was so thin from the Patricia era. Or are you starting to

zone in on certain areas where you're like okay I actually think they are trending towards certain needs because they've been able to bulk it up in such a short stretch already yeah I mean quarterbacks kind of the big one right it always is for every every team they don't have a long-term answer I mean I still think there are people in that organization who would like Jared Goff to be that longer term answer, but I, I think they're realistic about what he is and where his flaws are and sort of what his ceiling is. So that's the big one, you know, that's the one that could always throw sort of the draft plans and everything off. Because like you said, I think if you look at this offense, that line has a chance, chance to be one of the, you know, top 10 lines in the league, I think for sure, if everyone's healthy,

which they weren't last year. And then, you know, again, if you keep Deandre Swift healthy, he's pretty good. TJ Hawkinson's a pro bowl caliber tight end. And now you've got some good pieces at wide receiver. So it's sort of all in place except for quarterback. And I think it's been interesting. You mentioned the vertical threat. this is two off seasons in a row brad holmes came in now says second offseason both times they've signed these bigger outside vertical shot play wide receivers they've designed this offense to sort of roll the pocket and use play action a ton it's all these things that aren't fits for Jared Goff necessarily and so at some point you figure they're going to bring in someone else who can handle those things so that's the big one I mean I do think that they looking at that and just talking about the talent offense you

can't say that about the defense they need some guys on defense so I think that they will be defense heavy in this draft number two overall there's a lot of really great trench players in this class that I think when we have the conversation about top three picks, you know, there's three offensive linemen that people think could go number one overall. There's a handful of edge rushers that we feel could be top three, top five overall picks. So my question is, you know, the Lions, you mentioned they have a deficiency on the defensive side of the ball, but like the offensive side of the ball they have their tackles that they like they got their center that they like are they set enough at the offensive line to not be tempted to maybe take an o-line manette number two or maybe even trade back a little bit and get an interior guy or a guard or

whoever they think could be there or just also on the defensive side of the football, do you feel like that's where they've got to go? Are they going to dip into that portion of this draft class? I think they feel like they really need to go defense a lot in this draft and they've got five picks in the top hundred and nine picks overall. So I think that the majority of those will be spent on defense or on trading into spots where they can get guys specifically to start on defense. But yeah, that where they can get guys specifically to start on defense. But yeah, that, that's sort of the interesting conversation because as you look at the strength of this class and, and sort of how this has been built too,

they want to win in the trenches. They want to run the ball. I think Taylor Decker's here for a little while longer. I left tackle, but maybe not. And I think, you know, how Vita played pretty well at right guard for them. But I think that's probably one more year max before you start looking for other solutions there. You're gonna have to pay Penae Sewell. Eventually they just gave Frank Ragnow a huge contract. So you're going to have to,

you're gonna have to put a rookie in there again at some point, I think down the line here. So I don't know that it'll be now at number two, but we've had those conversations, you know, sort of around when we've talked about it here, just, well, if this is the best guy on your board by a big margin and it's an offensive tackle or a guy that you can maybe play a guard for a year, I don't know that you can rule that out knowing that the lions are built the way that they're built right now. I mean, I think it'd be a surprise, but I don't think you can totally rule it out. So, yeah, I mean, I get the line of thinking there. I just, the defensive issues are still, you know,

they weren't good against the run last year. The secondary, they maxed out what they got from those young guys in the secondary, but there aren't any elite chips in that secondary. So, and linebacker too, you know, they're sort of just figuring things out it's all three levels on defense and this is this is how you got to fix it I think yeah that's what stands out to me on paper is that you know they obviously need

better pass rush I think they got something started right in the middle on that interior defensive line last year and you said it with linebacker the wild card on the roster to me is Jeff Okuda because the rookie season didn't go obviously how you hoped in the injury last year and you said it with linebacker the wild card on the roster to me is Jeff Akuta because the rookie season didn't go obviously how you hoped in the injury last year and if you get a lot out of Akuta this year then your cornerback need it becomes a little less significant but if you go off the fact that Akuta's rookie season wasn't what you hoped I know this regime is not responsible for that that opens the door as a massive need for them where they could even think about corner at 32, 34, which are premium picks in this draft class. So do you have a sense of how they view a CUDA and how they view that corner

room as a whole right now? Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the things that, um, I've probably gotten more heated conversations with fans about over the past few weeks is because I keep trying to tell people that I don't think that they are anywhere near where maybe the perception is of after seeing guys step in, you know, Jerry Jacobs was an undrafted guy who played well. And Amani or a worry, I had six picks, but I don't know that they even up to or a worry. I don't know that they see him as a long-term piece and he needs a new contract coming up in the next year or two here.

Jacobs blew out his knee at the end of last year. He mentioned Okuda's coming back from the Achilles. We've heard some rumblings, I guess that they could see him as more of a hybrid guy coming back and play some safety corner with him. So that's crazy. Who's going to be your starters. I mean, they signed Mike Hughes as a one term one year option, but again, they, that's a spot where I don't know that beyond 2022, 2023,

they have anyone that they necessarily think is going to be there. So yeah, that is kind of a sneaky need for them. I don't think that they go, you know, like Stingley or someone in the top five, but yeah, when you get into that turn, they've got two picks there at the end around one, start around two. I think it could be on the board. Certainly that pick at the top around three. I know there's like, there's some guys there that they've even had contact with at the senior bowl and stuff that they would like. So yeah, I mean, it's hard. Cause you go down this and say, all right, well, the looks all right on offense, but they also have like 25 things that they need. So you run out of draft picks. But yeah, I mean, that's on the list.

Yeah, maybe a little Joshua Williams, Tariq Woolen somewhere back in the day, too. Right. OK, so I'm sure. Yeah, sure. Well, shoot. Who doesn't? I was going to say is his mock draftable spider charts basically a perfect circle so i figure every team in the nfl is probably gonna be in on him okay chris let's i want to put you on the clock a little bit earlier to make this pick because i think connor and i are gonna have some follow-up questions with whoever it is you take because there's obviously a lot of ways that the lions could go here at number two overall so in this guest mock draft we had aiden hutchinson go off the board at number one so he is the only player unavailable there which is kind of funny because we link him to the lions a lot as somebody that they would like but if aiden hutchinson's off

the board who are you taking here in this guest mock draft for the detroit lions and then i'm sure we'll be able to talk about it a little bit after you make and defend your selection a little bit i i was pretty on the fence here i guess in kind of two different directions one is that i think defense as we as i said is is where they really would like to go they need to get better up front they need a pass rusher uh a really dynamic pass rusher romeo core has been good for them they re-ssigned Charles Harris. They're super, super high on Julian Okora, but I don't know that they have that dominant edge rusher in the building right now. So you've got some options there and Trayvon Walker and Kayvon Thibodeau

and maybe Jermaine Johnson sneaks into that conversation. So that's sort of the direction that I figured it would go. And I kept coming back to Malik Willis too. You know, I just, man, I know that they really liked him at the senior bowl and not just the physical tools. I know they were, as it sounds like most other teams have been so far, impressed by all the intangibles and the football smarts and everything, just the way he processes the game and sort of sees the field when he's out there.

You could go quarterback there and come back and use those next four picks on defense and come away feeling pretty good. So I struggled. I'm going to take Trayvon Walker and give him the defensive lineman, the edge rusher, someone who can play a versatile role for them up front.

But up until the moment I wrote the name on the card, I was having reservations. So yeah, I mean, I'm happy to field any questions here because I've probably been asking them to myself. Yeah. So let's, let's talk about the quarterback situation then. And I want to tie it a little bit into Jared Goff because we always love looking ahead as well and when we look to next year's quarterback class we potentially have guys like CJ Stroud and Bryce Young and maybe even guys like Tyler Van Dyke and Spencer Rattler make names for themselves this season coming up and maybe they put their names in the NFL draft hat and we talked

about how good they can be as quarterbacks so So my question is kind of, you know, you mentioned some people with the Lions probably still want Jared Goff to be the guy, but it's probably not. However, the situation is what it is. He has to be on the roster next year. He's uncuttable with $41 million in dead cap. So he's going to be there. Do you think they like Malik Willis? And obviously there's no right or wrong answer

we're just kind of picking your brain on it do you think that they would like Malik Willis enough to take him at two and have him this year with Jared Goff and maybe playing him a little bit maybe not do you think he is realistically right there for them at number two or have you heard just too much of defense defense defense what do you think about Malik Willis at number two for that situation? No, I think he's there for them. And I guess I wouldn't rule out another quarterback later on too. I mean, I think Desmond Ritter is a guy that they like. Kenny Pickett's maybe.

The reason I've hesitated going to Pickett and even Ritter to some extent is I feel like they really would prefer, at least the coaching staff would prefer to draft and develop a guy and have him sit behind golf. Like you said, they're kind of stuck, but I think that would be their preference regardless is to have a rookie come in and sit for a year and learn and watch, not necessarily play right away. And so that sort of drifts me back to Willis in just in comparison to those

other guys. And then you talk about, yeah, you could wait until next year, but if you're, I mean, they, I think they thought they were better than a three win team last year. So now if you're a seven win team, say this year, six win team, are you going to land in that? No man's land, even with having extra draft capital where you have to really sell out to go get a guy, you're going to be able to land them. They, again, it wasn't this regime, but the previous regime could have sort of started this rebuild earlier

and gone and gotten Justin Herbert. And last year they could have taken Justin Fields. And so now if you kick the can another year and it doesn't work out next year for those top guys, now what do you do? How do you keep them off again? So I think that they're at a point right now where one way or another i think they have to make a decision on malik willis specifically

whether or not they like him at two because i don't know that you're gonna be able to wait till the teens or 20s to trade up and get him and uh yeah i mean it's really tough i think he's in the mix for them. Like I said, I think they really liked him, and I think they like his personality and sort of how he'd handle everything. So it's tough. I went back and forth a lot because I know there's some teams coming up that want quarterbacks too. And I'll say they're a good environment for Malik Willis with Goff there.

I mean, the one thing you don't want with Malik Willis is him just being thrown into the fire right away and ruining his development. And the Lions, I think, are one of the teams that would understand that. So my follow up here is Hutchinson went first in our guest mock draft series. I feel like almost 80% of draft media and media as a whole expect Hutchinson to go first to Jacksonville. But it's not a lock. This is a rare draft where we're not sure if Hutchinson was there at two.

Is that just a layup selection you think for Detroit? I think so. I mean, again, I wouldn't take quarterback completely off the board, but I think just needs and what, you know, having a local product and just the personality really come back to sort of the work ethic and high floor. He loves football and all those things that you hear about. I mean, I think it's just such a natural fit for him, uh, in that locker room and with Dan Campbell and everything. I, I would, if he's there at two, I would be very surprised if he's not the pick.

Makes sense. I mean, that makes sense we you like you said the michigan connections right there i mean hutchinson it just seems like everybody who's interacted with him and gotten to know him and has his game like they absolutely love him and look if there's any college prospect that it felt like was hunting kneecaps and and going after guys from a pass rusher perspective it felt like it was such as the man played with 150 the motor going at all times and so if he's there that might be the pick but he wasn't and that's why i wanted to get chris on It felt like it was Hutchinson. The man played with 150%, the motor going at all times. And so if he's there, that might be the pick, but he wasn't. And that's why I wanted to get Chris on because Chris does such a great job

of giving us the total scope of everybody who's on the table and everything. It's Trayvon Walker here at number two overall from Chris. Dude, thank you so much for coming on, man. This is a fun pick. Like we talked about earlier, it feels like this is like the crossroads of whatever the lions do the rest of the draft. It's, it's going to follow suit. So we appreciate the expertise here on the guest mock draft series. Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me.

And I don't want to make it sound like I settled on Trayvon Walker. He's obviously a good player, you know, and I think they'd be happy to have him, but I, I, I will say that it feels like a pivot point for the lions and i think this is going to be a sort of a pivot point for this draft which way they go with this pick because they could go a lot of different directions and shape this thing for everyone else so uh we'll see thanks for having me appreciate it chris everybody go follow chris on twitter read his work over at the athletic and we'll see how this pick that chris made maybe

affects the final pick of the guest mockock Draft series at number 32. All right, number three on the clock. One of two first-round picks for the Houston Texans we are very excited to get to, and we are very excited to have a legend on today, in John McClain from the Houston Chronicle. He's been covering the NFL in the Houston area for 45 years. John, you've been in movies. You've basically done it all in this point. You've seen a lot, but is this the craziest era

of Houston football that you have covered? It's not just the craziest era in Houston, Connor. It's the craziest in the NFL. I've seen a lot of wild things in my four and a half decades of covering the league. And I've actually been a big pro football fan since I was eight years old in 1960 and the Cowboys and Oilers were created and the Cowboys were on CBS and Oilers NBC and the Cowboys didn't win a game and they were boring. And the NFC was NFL was three yards in a cloud of dust, and then you go over to the AFC, and the Oilers got George Blander

throwing the ball all over the field to Charlie Hennigan and Bill Groman, and you got Billy Cannon catching passes at tight end, and Charlie Tolar running, and I fell in love with AFC because kids loved the way they played compared to the NFL. Then I became a diehard Cowboy fan. They had my heart broken for years until they beat Miami for the first Super Bowl win. But I've been following football a long time, never seen so much movement with quarterbacks.

It's unbelievable. And like Devontae Adams being traded, you know, you just don't see deals like that. And I love the players getting so much money because the owners wouldn't give it if they didn't have it. Now, on the other hand, the Texans have been losing a lot of players in recent years. Bill O'Brien trading Debian Clowney, not re-signing Tyron Matthew, and then trading De'Andre Hopkins, and then D.J. Reeder letting him get away in free agency. Now Deshaun Watson. It's amazing, this team in 18 and 19 when they were 11-5, 10-6,

and in 19, just two years ago, they beat Buffalo in a wildcard game, made Josh Allen look bad at the end. Then they build a 24-0 lead at Kansas City before choking it. This team was very close to being really good. Now they've gone straight down the toilet for a total rebuild, and they can certainly use all these draft choices they got in the trade with Cleveland. And it is crazy when you paint the picture like that, kind of how soon it was really, or how recently it was that Houston wasn't that far away from competing for an AFC title and maybe a spot in the Super Bowl. But since then, obviously a lot has changed. You mentioned Bill O'Brien kind of wearing that head coach and GM hat, moving players around, trading players,

things like that. But since then, we've had a couple of new guys come in. Nick Casario is the general manager. Jack Easterby is there. They got a new head coach in, Lovie Smith. My question to you, John, because everybody wants to know the answer to this when we think about what might happen with Houston in the draft. Who's calling the shots in Houston who who is the one who really is calling these shots to get these players on the roster and who might have the final say when it comes to these premium draft picks Nick Casario has in his contract he has final say on all personnel Jack Easterby the executive VP of football operations who's the most vilified person in this city and one of the most vilified

in this city's history. He has no say in personnel. He tries to influence it. But if there's a good or bad decision, it comes down to Casario. And he's made sure to tell us that several times to remind people because there are people that think Easterby has something to do with it and as much as he'd like to Casario is smart enough to keep him at arm's length John we've looked at you know we've heard a lot of the talk about this team does have belief in Davis Mills who had big time flashes last year you know former day two pick that I think surprised a lot of people at times last year and you look at this roster there's a lot of work to do on defense there's a lot of people at times last year. And you look at this roster, there's a lot of work to do on defense. There's a lot of work to do on offense. We know how the NFL as a whole kind of feels about this quarterback class in 2022.

It's not the same as last year's. What is the actual belief in Davis Mills going forward? And are they going to build a little around him and give him a legitimate chance in this upcoming season? He's a starting quarterback. Now, they won't come right out and say that. And I'm writing this for a column on Wednesday. Why won't they come out and say, Davis is our guy?

Because they want people to think, yeah, they might take a quarterback. So whether it's with the third pick or the 13th pick, maybe there's somebody behind them that wants a quarterback and they're worried about Texans taking that quarterback. Maybe they'll give them picks to swap places. Right now, they have 11 draft choices. You don't want too many rookies on your team. It's like a salad that's too green. It's just not as balanced and doesn't taste as good. And I know Casario will do a lot of trading like he did last year. And one of the reasons people have confidence in him in the draft, all five of their picks last year, beginning with Davis Mills, flashed.

They showed promise. The plan for Mills last year was wait to play him into November, December, and go with Tyrod Taylor. Tyrod had a great six quarters. Then he pulled a hamstringstring running for a touchdown pass. He was never the same. Mills, who started only 11 games at Stanford, would have stayed in school. But as David Shaw, his coach, explained, he couldn't tell him they wouldn't be under the same restrictions for the pandemic as they had been in his last season at Stanford. So he

thought, well, you know, I better go in and go pro. And Shaw thought that he stayed in. He'd be the top-rated quarterback in this year's draft. So they had to play him before they wanted to. They had a really bad team. They had the worst running game in the NFL. They had the worst running game in franchise history, even worse than their expansion year of 2002. It was pathetic. And if Rex Burkhead is your leading rusher, he should be a third back. You know you're in trouble, and they were. And so Mills had to play with no running game.

What would Mac Jones have done with a terrible defense and the worst running game in the NFL? Would he have been better the same? No. And down the stretch, I thought the last five games, when Mills came back, David Culley benched Tyrod, brought back Mills. And in those five games, he was the best rookie quarterback. Better than Mac Jones was down the stretch.

But for the season, he was number two. So they liked what they saw at the end of the year. They're going to give him a chance because here's what they like about him. He's big. He's got a strong arm. He's smart. He's football smart. He's respected by his coaches and his players, and he works his butt off. And that's what you want in a quarterback. He was in some really bad situations last year, and he works his butt off. And that's what you want in a quarterback. He was in some really bad situations the last year, and he bounced back. I remember one practice, he threw five interceptions. The media, this was in camp. We just torched him.

Then he came back and looked really good the next day. And David Cully said, and Nick Casario did too, they liked the way he didn't let bad throws or a bad practice or a bad game affect him the next week. He was able to rebound. And some of his best games were in close losses. He had the best rookie performance by a quarterback against Bill Belichick in history. They lost by three. Last game, they lose by three to the Titans. He was tremendous. So they like him a lot. And if he doesn't make the kind of improvement they expect,

then they'll look for a quarterback in 2023 when you got, you were guessing, C.J. Stroud and Bryce Young coming out. Both those guys are better than any of these prospects by far. And one other thing about what they think about Mills, Pep Hamilton was being pursued by five teams. He did three interviews, and they wanted him as an offensive coordinator. He stayed here because Lovie Smith said the offense is yours. Pep got to bring in coaches he wanted. He's brought in some free agents he wanted, and he likes Davis Mills.

Lovie Smith told me right after he was elevated, he said, I've told Nick, we've got some positions that need to work on. Quarterback is not one of them. I trust Pep, and I know how high Pep is on Davis Mills, and I am too. So you mentioned kind of right there, that's a good segue into looking at this roster. Lovey Smith talks about, Hey, we've got certain areas that we really want to address. Quarterbacks, not one of them. The Texans made a lot of signings and re-signings this past free agency week, but they were smaller, you know, one, two year deals. It felt like it was a lot of roster filling and that often sets you up to be able to take that best player available approach in the draft whether it's a number three or number 13 or whatever it is

who do you think they are targeting well maybe not exact players but just what position groups do you really think the texans believe they're weakest on that they might go after that they've got a really keen eye on with their two first round picks that they want to start going after? No, they have specific needs. And I've seen some mock drafts have them taking a receiver. They're not taking a receiver in the first round. They have to fix the running game. I'm expecting them to take a back like Brie Saul or Kenneth Walker III in the second round, because most of the top running backs today were taken in the second round. I think in the first round, they still need somebody who can kick some serious butt in the running game.

Now, they're bringing back Laramie Tunsell. A lot of people thought they might trade him. New line coach George Warhop doesn't want to start over with four new starters in the line. So you should have the tackles, Laramie Tunsil and Titus Howard. And last year, they tried to play Titus at guard until injury. Tunsil forced to move him left tackle. And he showed what we all knew.

He's a tackle. So if you have those two, do you draft Evan Neal, who is definitely a tackle? The guy I would love to see them get with the third pick is akia kwano because he's the best run blocker he can play tackle or guard and i'm not saying evan neal can't play guard a lot of tackles play guard their first year but a kwano is what they need because he is mean and nasty and they need to get more physical in the middle they signed aj can from jacksonville Warhawk coached him three years. So I've got him penciled in at right guard,

even though he missed the last 13 games with an MCL terror last year. So I think they still need a center and a left guard. A lot of people thinking, well, they should take a quantum and limited bomb with their first two picks. Yeah, but they're not going to do that because, to me, they take an offensive lineman, then they got a pass rushing right in.

They need an edge rusher. You guys know how deep this draft is? An edge rusher. So they need somebody to be a book in, and they've got all their other three defensive linemen who are set but what they need the most right now because they're more destitute than any position other than running

back is a safety they don't have a starter a legitimate starter at safety and there's one great safety prospect kyle hamilton and loveyy Smith has played with some great safeties. John Lynch, he was there when Aeneas Williams moved to safety from corner. And Aeneas played really well. So he knows how much it means to have a safety and do a lot of different things. But that's the one where they're most destitute. And running back, they have Rex Burkhead, and that's it. it they need two more but they're not going to take it back in the first round john looking at this slot and you said it earlier nick casario loves to move around this

is a team that's shown that they love acquiring more picks they have a lot of work to do on this roster do you think they're in a position that at three they need to stay put and get a premium talent because they the roster just lacks so many of those or do you think this is another scenario where the phone lines will be open they'll be looking to take trade calls to get because there's only a couple great players in this draft and teams will want to come up do you think the Texans will have any interest in getting out of that slot I think he will if for the right deal depends on the player that he thinks is great you know how far down could you trade and get neil or quantum how far down can you trade and get kyle hamilton there's

no other safety worth that pickup there now a lot of people say you better get the pass rusher because they can make life so much easier for the dbs and the safety can't help a pass rush unless he's blitzing so he's going to have a lot of options. You know, the good thing about having so many needs is that you really can't go wrong. I could see him trading down from three, stay at 13. I could see him staying at three, trading down from 13, but he's got 11 picks. And if he gets another couple, he's not going to have 13 draft choices on this team. He, I think he would do some maneuvering and maybe he would use some of those picks to move up to get players,

like he did last year when he traded back into the third round to get receiver Nico Collins. John, my last question before we get to your selection here in the guest mock draft series is, I got to ask you a little bit about how the Deshaun Watson saga ended. It was such a strange situation with leverage, right? Where Deshaun had initially demanded a trade, but the Texans weren't going to move him. He just signed that one year deal. Then of course you have the allegations that come out against him and the civil suits and the criminal suit against him and all of that over the last year, it ends up in him going to Cleveland for a massive return haul. And so just kind of, I know it's a massive story and there's a lot of layers, but how did we get to the point where Deshaun was still demanding that kind of trade value?

And then just, I guess, your overall thoughts on how it all ended with the Deshaun era in Houston. Trevor, he was holding all the cards. He had his no trade clause. If Nick Casario had been offered five number ones and five starters by one team, and he said, no, I'm not going there, they couldn't trade him. There's nincompoops in Houston who are thinking, well, Casario should have gotten more. And I'm like, how? How's he going to get more? He has absolutely no say unless he called Watson's bluff and said, if you don't take this trade to Carolina, you can set out another season

and you can come to work every day, be active for every game. We'll pay you $35 million like we paid you $10.54 million last year and call his bluff. But they didn't want it to come to that because they needed the return now for phase two.

You know, they're using this one and four, getting six overall picks, two each year, one and a four this year. They've got five of the top 80, two fourth-round picks after that. They wanted it now. They didn't want to wait until 2023. And if he just set out two years, he wouldn't have been as popular on the trade front after that much inactivity. And also, you would never know how those legal issues would have turned out, you know, maybe worse than they have so far. So the timing, I understand it.

Casario would always ask for three ones. If you were interested in Watson, you had to be willing to trade. Three ones. Nobody's ever done that. People say, Herschel Walker, no. In the initial trade, there was one first-round pick. And Jimmy Johnson got a bunch of players, and he had it in the deal that he couldn't disclose that if those players were cut or traded,

he got a corresponding pick. So he ended up with three first-round picks and a lot more. But initially he didn't. So they wanted three number one picks. He wanted two twos and a starter. This was last year. Eight teams were interested. Then the lawsuits started piling up.

Everybody backed away, said, we'll see how this plays out, except Philadelphia, and Watson rejected the Eagles. And then Miami, he said, I'm going to Miami. I'm not going anywhere else. They had a deal for three ones, a three and a five at the trade deadline, but it fell apart when Stephen Ross insisted they get all 22 civil suits settled, and they could not get four by the trading deadline. It fell apart so in miami showing no interest this time a bunch of teams did and he wasn't going to indianapolis because it's in the division so it came down to the final four i thought there's no way he'd ever

go to cleveland he played one game there november 15th of 2020 it was so bad they had to evacuate the stadium and delay the start of the game because of wind, hail, rain, lightning. Texas scored one touchdown, and he averaged 3.2 yards per temp. And I'm thinking, no way he's going there. But $230 million is worth putting up with a lot of rain, sleet, slush, snow, hail, anything you have to put up with playing on the banks of Lake Erie. All right, John, to close this thing out, this is the Guest Mock Draft Series. At number one overall, the Jacksonville Jaguars.

We had Aiden Hutchinson come off the board. At number two overall, the Detroit Lions. We had Trayvon Walker come off the board. So two defensive players. You are on the clock for number three overall for the Houston Texans. What is the selection you're making here? Texans are desperate to improve their offensive line. There's two candidates there. Tackle Evan Neal, tackle Gardick Iquanu. They need a pass rusher to play opposite Jonathan Grenard to complete their defensive line. But they need a safety worse than anything than running back,

and they're not going to draft a back there. So I'm saying Notre Dame safety, Kyle Hamilton, will play for Lovie Smith. They'll use him all over the field. And I think that would be a pretty safe pick. Nobody in Houston could argue with that pick when they look at their defense. Kyle Hamilton going off the board at number three, man, a safety going that high is sure to raise some eyebrows, but for good reason, man, Kyle Hamilton is one of the most unique prospects we have in this class and lines up pretty perfectly with, like John said there,

the need certainly lines up. John, that's fantastic information. Of course, we expected nothing less from one of the best who's been doing it for over four decades, which is unbelievable. John, thank you so much for the time, giving us some of your insight and knowledge. We really enjoyed it. Trevor and Connor, thank you guys very much for having me.

I really do appreciate it. Great job Connor, thank you guys very much for having me. I really do appreciate it. Great job. All right, there we go. First three picks of the guest mock draft series in the books. We got the Jags taking Aiden Hutchinson. We got the Lions taking Trayvon Walker and then the Houston Texans taking Kyle Hamilton. Connor and I will be back on Monday for a mock draft centric episodes with just the two of us. But then on Tuesday, we're picking up right where we left off with the Jets, Giants and Panthers. We'll see you next time.