NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 282. Fix Your Franchise: New York Giants

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers fix the New York Giants. Now sitting at 2-7 with their third year coming to a close, the two talk Brian Daboll and Joe Shoen and whether or not they've done enough to stay, come up with a free agency strategy for 2024 and give you a 3-round Giants mock draft

Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. In this episode, the Fix Your Franchise series rolls on with the New York Giants. We're going to talk about where Joe Shane and Brian Dable, their general manager and head coach, stand currently. How we got to this point with the franchise. What we are doing with Daniel Jones. And then a battle plan moving forward. We're going to talk about free agency strategies. Who could be available.

Who they're moving on from. Who might be trade candidates for them. Talk about guys that they could bring in. a new roster that they can build around, and then finish it off with a three-round New York Giants mock draft. I'm Trevor Sikama. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you guys for another Fix Your Franchise episode of the program. We're talking about it more, and I think the way that we're going to do this show

over the next, I would say, two months is we're probably going to be pretty heavy Fix Your Franchise stuff because we talked about how we wanted to do more fix your franchise episodes this year than we ever have because you guys seem to really love it and then that will allow us to really lean into positional rankings once we get into december the christmas season we'll give out all the gifts that are our uh our rankings for the 2025 nfl draft but we got to fix some teams before we get to that point today. We have the New York Giants. Connor, how you doing, my friend? I'm good, man.

Excited. This is going to be a fun one. I could just feel the pre-pod energy. This is going to be a lot of fun. And I mean, I think what you're trying to say in the most polite way is there's just a lot of shitty teams right now that need to be Alex. You know, and you know what? It might be the elixir.

As soon as we fix the jets they beat the texans on thursday night football so maybe this is the turnaround maybe this is the answer for the giants we're gonna fix the saints this week probably not there's a chance that these teams just need a lot of help right now and oh man this is this is a whopper right here this is an absolute doozy we're're fixing all in New York at this point because we fixed the Jets already. Now we're on the Giants. Next week, it's the Yankees.

And then the week after that, it's the Mets. The Bills are okay. Then we're getting into the Brooklyn Nets. You know, so it's like the Knicks, we could probably wait on that. Knicks and Rangers are safe. Yeah, for now. For now.

Good God. Don't tease that. were you were going through some car troubles before we got here were you actually like in danger to not make the time no i i was because i've mastered this by now it's actually it's actually sickening this is my third damaged tire in about one calendar year. The damn, I think the one before this, I want to say was the dead of winter. And the one before that was on the way home from Thanksgiving. So yeah,

one, this is my third damaged tire in one full year. I dude nightmare scenario. I can't even dog in the car. Is anybody open? Who's open? No one. I just stopped,

filled it and prayed. That's it. Literally. There's nothing, there's nothing you could do. I just stopped, filled it, and prayed. That's it. Literally. There's nothing you could do. Of course you could put the donut on it, and then you're driving like 10 miles an hour. That's true.

No, I've mastered this to the point where I'm well aware of the tire. You know what? I'll give Mavis a shout out. I'm fine with that. We usually don't do free promotions, but Mavis was so good that I'll give Mavis a shout out. I'm aware where every mavis is from connecticut the southern part of connecticut to westchester uh i know where all my hot spots are to stop and get air for the tire to make it to mavis and luckily this time we love luck was really

on my side every time you have a tire damaged you go in like maybe they can patch it and then they cut they come over to you after you know however long you're there and they're like oh it's a bad one like you're actually a new engine but you know we're gonna keep the car we'll give you 100 bucks that is the worst part when you actually go in to get your car fixed and it's like okay i just need my tire patch and they go we can't legally let you back on the road because i had i had a couple older cars. I had a Nissan Altima, and then I had a Honda Element before I have the car that I have now, which is funny because the car that I have now is actually older, but it's better.

It's a Toyota Sequoia. Shout out. I love the vehicle. They just run forever. But correct. And the other two vehicles, they were, I don't know. I didn't really take good care of them. They were my first cars. I didn't really know what the hell I was doing.

And I think that did happen one time where I went in to get like an oil changed or my wheel patched or whatever and they were like yo i don't know if we let you back on the road i think it was brakes at that point they were like we legally can't give you this car back unless you get new brakes and i was like put your keys on like a hook behind the desk and they just give you the Mutombo rest in peace. And you're just like, what? So, so, okay.

This reminds me, I had a story I wanted to tell you and the listeners, because this is so insane. I'm wondering if anybody else has ever experienced anything like this. So where I live, there is public parking that is right in front of our house. And we park one of our cars in the garage, but then we use the garage for other things. We got like a little home gym or whatever. So it's a two-car garage, but we only park one car in there. And again, the car that I have now is a 2002 Toyota Sequoia, so I don't care that it's on the street so my neighbor comes up to me like three weeks ago and he goes hey

have you seen the sun damage on the cars i was like no i don't know what you're talking about oh no he goes this is going he goes come here so i go into his garage and he shows me his bmw x5 okay there's a nice vehicle that he's been parking on the street the one of the rear view mirrors or one of the side mirrors is melted like melted i live in charlotte north carolina it's not like it's getting up to like 150 degrees and i'm like whoa what's going on and so part of the side mirror is like bubble it like the plastic is like bubbling because it's melted on there and then sure as shit i go out to my car same thing the hood is like melted and bubbled the side mirror is like melted and bubbled the um

the ceiling that's around like the little um roof I have, like the sunroof that I have is completely gone. And now if it rains, it leaks. Wait, what? Like what in the world? Dude, because of where the sun is now at this time of day, like at this time of year, it is bouncing off of the windows of our houses. I knew it had to be a reflection. And reflecting like a magnifying glass and melting laser beam the cars it's a laser beam at that point yes i mean think about

how much testing those cars go through for conditions you're literally you have to be dealing with something so out of the ordinary by the way that's completely insane it's nuts i so i've obviously like it's again it's it's sort of like a beat-up vehicle i don't really care yeah it's easier for you to swallow rather than bro i just went to lowe's and got like some some clear silicone and just went to town on any of the leaks that i had in there but like dude i felt bad for the bmw i just i've never heard that before the sun was bouncing off the window so bright it was melting the cars. I feel like Trump right there.

They're eating the dog. They're melting the cars. Now you've installed a new fear in me. Because we do literally the same exact thing as you. Only half the garage is for a car. And I just, I don't know, it's just a whole thing just a car outside all the time right it's fine it's fine and during the summer we never worried about it but just want to shout out out there if you probably need to be on the street just be careful of the windows because as if we

didn't have enough to fear in 2024 all right you gotta fear seed oil you gotta fear uh fake ai that you see in the internet now you gotta fear the windows you gotta just live in fear laser beam windows dude that's insane it is well at least it worked out for you in a sense but brutal for your boy next door speaking of laser beams times the laser beam, the, the New York jets. Yeah, absolutely. And absolutely. Sorry. Sorry. So sorry. I already did the jets.

I'm used to it. It's sorry. Sorry. It's just, it's natural off the tongue. We don't talk about the giants. I feel like specifically a lot in this show, but here we are going to fix this team.

We're going to go through everything like we have in the fixture franchise episodes before we are going to tell you how they got there, how the, how the New York giants got here. We'll go through some head coach and general manager candidates for this team, although there's a conversation to be had about the guys that are currently in the building. We will go through free agency strategies, team needs, who's a free agent, who they could bring back, who they could go out and get.

And, of course, we'll end the episode with a three-round Giants-centric mock draft here. So, Connor, as we always do, we've got to set the stage and I'll go to you first. And we can kind of kick this off in a lot of ways. I think we'll be able to get to all of our, our talking points here, but New York Giants currently sitting two and seven right now. They are tied for the worst record in the NFL,

but right now, if the draft were to happen this weekend, they would still only pick seventh because they have a much higher strength of schedule, but they're right there with some of the worst teams in the NFL sitting here at two and seven. I'd love to throw it to you and sort of let you sort of set the table

and then we can have the conversation go wherever we need to about how the New York Giants sort of got into this mess here in 2024. Yeah, the Giants are in a way, some of the simplest form of failure over a long period of time. It's different when we talk about, you know, we did the Jets last week, right? The Jets have taken multiple quarterbacks in the top five, and they haven't been able to develop a quarterback.

They've missed on a lot of hires. They've had very weird incidents that are even non-football related happen over the years, whether it's, you know, what happened with Gino in the locker room and Sam seeing ghosts and Woody being the ambassador overseas and having his brother like run the team. The Giants pretty stable at the top in terms of the Mara family. But man, not stable after that on its way down. They've really just missed on the GM and head coaching hires for a long time, and it's had a trickle effect down on the organization.

And to really put it in perspective, how long this has been going on with the Giants, a friend of the show, Bobby Skinner from Talking Giants, he had a really good tweet that summed up how the giants have started the first half of the season since 2017. their first eight games since 2017. so listen to this 2017. was 2017 the last no it's the end of the ben mcadoo era okay so it's the end of the bags spags takes over at the end of the year as interim coach gotcha gotcha so what an incredible job by spags to get out and then just go to kansas city and now be one of the greatest coaches in nfl history just win a super basically have a chance to win a super bowl every year uh yeah truly remarkable i mean spags is a great defensive coordinator one and seven that year okay so 2018

the higher pat schirmer one in seven okay year two of pat schirmer two and six that's 2019 okay fire pat schirmer let's move on to the joe judge era 2020 one in seven year two of joe judge 2021 two and six all right let's move on from the let's move on from the joe judge and dave gettleman era and let's start with Joe Shane and Brian Dable, who admittedly I've, I've been a big fan of when they made these hires, although they finally got it. 2022,

six and two ding, ding, ding, 2023, two and six, 2024, two and six, which is now two and seven.

As we sit here on the podcast, that's insane. There are seasons just over by November every single every single year besides 2022 which we'll discuss that year a little in depth and it's you know it's a variety of reasons but at the end of the day the roster has not lived up to the standards of this organization the coaching has really fallen flat for at all three phases most of the time I think there's been flashes of them having a good defense throughout that really bad stretch. But yeah, that's the story of the Giants right now,

is that they haven't even gone into a rebuild mode and then come out of it. They basically just cannot find themselves out of this never-ending hole of not being a threat in the NFC East since 2017. I need some team-building woes that we'll definitely get into specifically over the last three years since Shane has taken over. But you know, it's, it's hard to not just straight up say what a mess this organization has been since Tom Coughlin left. That's right.

The Tom Coughlin, Eli Manning era. And I get it. Like that was special, right? I mean like this, that's a uh a historic head coach a hall of fame quarterback like I get it it's not like you can replicate that once again but it's been worse than it is in most places I mean McAdoo got what a year and a half Shermer got two years Joe Judge got a year and a half and specifically i kind of want to go back to the joe judge era because you know coughlin leaves and mackadu takes over failure schirmer comes in i think offensive minded stuff failure once again then i think the mindset at the time when they hired joe judge was we want to build a true culture. Like we try to kind of like take the swing at these offensive guys over the last two hires. It really didn't work. Let's get

a guy who really understands what it's like to build an organization. And they weren't able to obviously get Bell Belichick at the time because that was, that was not in the cards at all whatsoever. Um, and they weren't able to really wow man when did uh when did josh mcdaniels get the job with the raiders i guess that would have been after as well so right the year after did they interview mcdaniels did they think about mcdaniel because mcdaniels would have been the offensive coordinator of the patriots still right i feel like they they were interested in him because they jump over him and they go they go to the special teams coordinator and Joe Judge who at the time it was seen as like whoa is this this big brain move from the Giants like they're

making a special teams guy a head coach but he's coming from you know the Belichick organization and I mean it it was horrible I mean that whole experiment with Joe Judge was absolutely horrible he did not know how to be a head coach he tried to install the Patriot way and we have seen now that there are many examples that you cannot take what Bill Belichick did in New England and put it somewhere else in the league before Shermer by the way not to cut you off yeah is when they were interested in him yeah in McDaniels you're. Okay. So it sounded like they probably would have went after him. Maybe that did not go well. And then, you know, you probably, you wouldn't have hired him after Shermer. Giants fans could probably give us a little bit more background on that. I could

actually, it could be before Joe judge actually. Yeah. Cause they interviewed, yeah. They interviewed McDaniels on the same cycle that they interviewed judge okay so they did all right i'm pretty sure according to the new york post here god it's it's tough to cycle through yeah but that's that's yeah that was 2019 ish it seems yes they wanted that mindset like they wanted that patriot organization and john mara the owner wanted that it felt like uh in new york and he wanted to just be done trying to experiment and take, you know, home run swings. They wanted to clean up the organization and make it very stable. Well, that obviously didn't work.

He butted heads with basically everybody. I mean, he fired the offensive coordinator, and then it was Freddie Kitchens, and then he didn't get along with Freddie Kitchens, and then he took back over play calling, and then that was just a mess. He butted heads with Dave Gettleman before Dave Gettleman retired. Like it just, it was, it was a terrible experiment at all in all facets. So the desire to set up a culture wasn't gone because clearly you tried to do that and it failed once again.

So then they go out and they get the pairing which I loved I agree with you I loved this hire at the time Joe Shane the assistant general manager for the Buffalo Bills since 2020 since 2017 and a team that has risen to the very top of their division competitive team Super Bowl aspiration type of a team and a roster with that quarterback and then speaking of quarterback they went they got Brian Dable, who's the offensive coordinator for the Buffalo Bills. He started with the Buffalo Bills in 2018, the year that Josh Allen was drafted. Two rough years with Josh Allen in 2018 and 2019 as he was learning the game.

But then in that final year with Brian Dable, there's offensive coordinator. That was the first of what has now been four years in a row of elite PFF grades from Josh Allen. And so the Giants wanted that with Daniel Jones, right? They looked at Josh Allen and they said, this was a player who really struggled to read the field and, and, and maximize that dual threat ability. And Dable was able to do it with Josh Allen. Why can't he do it here with Daniel Jones? And so that was the reason for the hire. And I really didn't hate the thought process. it felt like that was good process for them it just well it kind of worked but

i'm going to be honest with you looking back at it the giants play playoff year making the playoffs in what was that 2022 yeah that was the worst thing that could happen for this franchise okay kind of think about it yeah they didn't pick up daniel jones fifth year option because why would you at that point in your career you're on a one-year rental with brian dable and the thought is all right jones hadn't been great for the first three years of his nfl career we'll see what brian dable can do yeah I mean if he can fix Daniel Jones then great we get to sign him you make the playoffs and and by the way overachieved to make the playoffs I mean we had this team is like it ranked in the 20s in terms of overall PFF grade

especially on the offensive side of the football they overachieved big time to get in the playoffs that year and now you're sitting here you got choice. It's not like Daniel Jones was a major reason why you were a playoff caliber team. That's the problem. I mean, he threw 15 touchdowns that year. It could not have been worse timing the way that they played this out with Jones, which is not entirely their fault.

But when you look back on it, that's why I say that season's actually the worst thing that happened for the Giants. Because that season kept them out of the 2023 NFL Draft class, which, all right, I'll be honest. It's Anthony Richardson and Bryce Young who are really struggling. But C.J. Stroud's in that class. If you had another bad year, maybe you're in contention for C.J. Stroud. And it basically kept them out from this past year's quarterback class

because they weren't able to go up and get the guy that they wanted even after the bad year that they had previously where Jones tears his ACL but he signed that four-year contract right after that wild card season because the Giants basically didn't have a have an option at that point so it's hard man it's hard to sort of look at this team and where they're at right now because man Connor I'm gonna be honest with you I pull up the depth chart from the New York Giants September of 2022 okay this is going into that last year of Daniel Jones's rookie contract this is the year that they made the playoffs. I can understand that people are going to hear these names and think that they're bad in hindsight,

but think about what this team could have been at September of that 2022 season before they go on that playoff run. It's Kenny Galladay, who's coming off the injury-riddled season in Detroit, but the season before had over 1,000 yards. Right. Kadarius Toney, who they thought could be fantastic in this league.

Sterling Shepard, who's a good wide receiver three at that point. The offensive line, it's Andrew Thomas about to break out. And then it's Josh Izudu, who, okay, that's not great, but Feliciano, veteran. Mark Lewinsky, veteran. Evan Neal was now in this lineup as well and you were hoping that he was going to work out at right tackle it's daniel jones you still have saquon barkley on the defense side of the football it's dexter lawrence it's cave on tibideau it's leonard

williams who is still on this team remember it's aziz ojalari you got julian love you got xavier mckinney like his talent there's like there's the talent's not bad here and now you look at the roster two years later and holy cow there ain't man i'm spoiler alert there ain't many players that we're gonna get to at the end of the episode that you say you can't move on from and you got to build this franchise around and most of them you just picked last april right that's yeah so it's just a it it is a it's crazy to look back and think that the giants it's not like they've always been like ass no they they were in a spot in 2022 where it could have been very different and i think that wild card year got a lot of people really excited but it ended up being the

worst thing that could happen to this team signing Daniel Jones missing out on two different quarterback markets now having to be forced to trade away veterans watch these guys sign elsewhere and and it's just it's been just a downward spiral from there obviously Jones getting hurt last year and tearing the ACL like that's not ideal You're playing backup quarterbacks at that point, but now you're in this mess. And so that's also, I think, a big part of the background of making sure that we emphasize where they came from with the Joe Judge thought process into the Shane and Daybo process, jumping the shark, putting the cart before the horse so much so that you actually curb your team building and window that's where i'm at with the giants and kind of how we got here i'm with you all the way

it's just that they they are a patient organization right they don't want to be this organization that is looking at it and going okay let's blow it up, let's blow it up again, let's blow it up again. I think, unfortunately, because he does take a lot of heat, but the Daniel Jones mistake has kind of compounded into many more mistakes with the Giants. It has now, yes. Because it felt like for so long, the argument around Jones was he's never really been in a great situation.

And I think that's fair. But when you evaluated been in a great situation. And I think that's fair. But when you evaluated him in a vacuum, and I think 2022 was ironically probably a decent time to do that because it was the year the team had success. They made it to the playoffs. They won a playoff game. It was easy to sit there and look at it in a nutshell and go, man, it feels like they're winning for a lot of reasons that are outside of Jones. Not saying that he was an anchor dragging them down. That's not what I'm saying.

But there's just not a lot of teams that not only make the playoffs or advance in the playoffs that are viewed as a legitimate up-and-coming contender where the quarterback is not really elevating a lot around him. And they, you know, they tried to ride it out. I've always had kind of thoughts that his extension was ownership driven,

to be honest with you. And that's not to give Joe Shane a pass, but they played it wrong when they basically extended Jones rather than franchising franchise tagging him. They probably should have been able to find the common ground on a Barkley extension. And even if you didn't want to extend Barkley, then let him walk.

But the tag for Jones was the safer play because you still didn't know what he was. And you committed serious money for him to him outside of a one year window. And if you just tagged them, they would have kind of a one-year window and if you just tagged them they would have kind of clapped their hands and been like all right it's time to move on and we know they knew that before this year because we we know that they wanted to go up and get drake may once the draft was set that you know caleb and jayden were going one two this was an organization that was willing to make a big offer to new england at three for drake may new england

wisely stuck at three and took Drake May, and you're now seeing a lot of the reasons why, because of the talent that he has. And the Giants, you know, I feel like some people laughed when I brought this up, but I really thought the Giants were, and I love Malik Neighbors, and I have no problem with that pick, but I always thought one of the paths for the Giants was to find a way, you know, if they weren't going to be able to get one of Caleb, Jadenden or drake may i thought they should have found a way to get michael penix and penix

went eighth so it actually wasn't that insane of an idea at the time it's not to say hey they should have taken penix instead of neighbors that's a conversation for down the road but this is a team now where not to kind of throw cold water on our entire fixing argument, but they're now in a draft field with teams like the Panthers and the Raiders and the Saints and the Browns that all need quarterbacks. And this quarterback class isn't very deep. And even at the top of it, it's not overly inspiring. So the Giants are going to have to be really, really creative to fix what has plagued them now for over a decade,

and that is who is under center. The bigger issue to me, and I think that this is a good transition here into how we move forward with the Giants, is it's now, what was it? A couple of weeks ago, we did an episode.

I can't remember if it was a mock draft episode or what, but we talked about the giants and we talked about, you know, if the giants are going to get rid of Brian Dable and a lot of giants fans were in the comments. And I'm glad that you guys were saying like, why are you talking about getting rid of Dable? Like we're not getting rid of Dable.

And I was simply saying, if the giants have as bad of a year as I think they're going to have, it will be on the table. It will be a conversation. Now, John Mara, their owner, has since come out and said, these guys aren't in danger of losing their job, both Joe Shane and Brian Dable. But we got nine more weeks, right? Yeah, and it's not looking any better.

It's definitely not looking any better it's definitely not looking any better if you're gonna keep one of them i think you'd keep dable i agree at that point do you risk setting up the non-natural hierarchy that is the head coach staying and the general manager getting hired because then you know we've seen in the past like okay if if a gm comes in and the head coach isn't re you know the guy that he picked sometimes there can be conflict there sometimes there can be a disruption of chemistry and you don't want that and it's just a risk if you keep the head coach and not the general manager and i think that shane's seat is than Dables and the reason why I think that

is because I listed off what the roster looked like in 2022 the roster's bad now and a reason why it is bad is because Joe Shane's first two drafts were terrible stinkers they're not good and first time general managers i try to have some leniency right i mean like this is hard you know they can't be like us and just never miss on a prospect i was going there and you beat me to a partner you know i understand that and so i i do in all in all all seriousness have some sympathy for general managers who are making the call for the first time. And I also don't love to be this revisionist

about things. But in 2022, your first year as general manager, you had two first round picks. You had two third round picks. In the first two picks, which were in the top seven, by the way you pick cave on tibbett over aiden hutchinson and diane was gone what no am i saying aiden

aiden was gone he went number two overall oh you're right you're right you're right you're right i'm dumb i'm dumb that would have been egregious you're right you're right you're right because i'm not like we like Thibodeau a lot, but I'm just saying NFL consensus wise is why it would have been startling. Everybody thought Hutchinson was the guy in the league. So you, you draft cave on Thibodeau five and it's like, it's,

it's been fine, but it hasn't exactly worked out for you. Evan Neal, you're picking Evan Neal over, over Charles cross. And that's bad. And again, I don't look,

I don't want to be too revisionist history about it, right? That did happen. And you do have to kind of eat it now because now not only is evan neal like a franchise offensive tackle opposite andrew thomas he's not even a startable guard well they just don't want to play him right they lose player after player after player and they want nothing to do with putting him on the field they don't want to put him on the field which is unfortunately an indictment of chain who drafted him you then get wandale robinson who's a contributing wide receiver he's fine but yeah but taking him in the top i i like 43 overall yeah like i'm not gonna sit here and be like i didn't like evan neal like i didn't like tibidill wandale robinson at 43 overall was just wild by the way and i liked wandale but i thought it i thought wandale was three overall at or sorry third round like

third round at best you know well i mean i think the right way to do this is kind of look around at that pick right so kenneth walker goes two picks before that you know it's funny to do these and you realize that like how many players don't work out. Pickens went after that. Pickens is an interesting case. I don't totally hold that against him. Right. Trey McBride, which they've needed a tight end at that time. I thought McBride was really underappreciated in that draft.

When did they draft Bellinger? Was that the year they drafted Bellinger? Bellinger was what, a fourth round pick? In that year. Yeah. So they could have a Trey McBride instead of Wanda Robinson. Yeah. Not to like nitpick one situation but it was a it was a very surprising so we'll keep going

here josh zudu who's okay but not really serviceable as an offensive lineman cordell flott who plays but i think it is replaceable uh the rest of the draft i don't really think that you're getting much out of dane belton mike mcfadden dj dj davidson uh marcus mckeithen, Darian Beavers. And then the next year, 2023, it's not looking good for him. Deontay Banks, who I admittedly liked a lot in that class, looks like he doesn't care. I mean, he is a liability every single week now. Yeah. Which is bad.

So you take him at 24. You take John Michael Schmitz, who's also really struggling. Jalen Hyatt in the third round, who is a one-trick pony, was a one-trick pony when he was at Tennessee. He was just sort of a Josh Heupel. A speed merchant? Essentially, basically a Josh Heupel merchant, I'm going to be honest with you. He was basically like a stack formation merchant,

and that's how he had so much production, because nobody could really cover him because he had that speed, but he didn't really have anything else. Eric Gray, Trey Hawkins, Jordan Riley. And Cedric Tumlin was always better. Javerius Owens. I mean, you know, the podcast knew.

And so, dude, I mean, you look at these last two drafts, you've got Wandale and Cordell Flott and Daniel Bellinger, I guess, who Bellinger has sort of been a contributing tight end, but he's also a special teams guy. Flott plays and Robinson plays,

but it's not like they're heavily impact players. Kayvon's getting a little bit better, but he's been banged up. He has not been worth a top five overall pick. Evan Neal has massively struggled. Banks is a liability.ael smith is really struggling hyatt can barely get on the field when you need a wide receiver to get on the field there's nothing to speak of in these two classes for shane now i will say this i will give him his credit so far he's got the best class of 2024 it's a a really good looking group. Minus quarterback, right?

Because I think that's a, you know, that's sort of a different category. Malik neighbors, Tyrone Newman, Andrew Phillips, Theo Johnson, Tracy, Tyrone Tracy. Great. You needed it. I loved this draft. You needed it.

He needed it bad. Without as many hits as he is, it looks like he has in the 2024 draft. I think it's a different conversation. Well, it's ironic too. You know, Phillips, who I think has played really well for most of this year, but sometimes he's drafting to replace misses

from previous years. You know, Flott and Banks have underperformed for the most part. So he took another corner, and Phillips, who's been good in my opinion, Bellinger's been whatever they take Theo Johnson. You know, they couldn't figure out wide receiver. Okay. Take neighbors. I have no problem with that. It's just, I like Tyrone Tracy a lot. It was one of my favorite picks of the draft. I think it's a good draft. Don't get me. It's a

really, really good draft, but I think Shane fell into a little bit of the trap of like, ah, man, like we're still not strong in areas I've drafted over the years. And now I have to kind of redraft those areas. And that's a shame. Yeah. I think the Saquon stuff's also pretty bad taste in John Mara's mouth for how they handle Saquon. Watching Saquon go off the way that he is for Philadelphia.

It's a different team. It's a different offensive line. And I understand. But that's the problem. Here's the issue, Trevor. This drives me ballistic. Is that everybody, a lot of Giants fans, and I get it, I do.

Everybody's like, well, you don't pay a running back anyway, so you can't hold that against them. The Giants didn't have the infrastructure for Saquon to be good. That's part of the fucking issue is that they haven't yeah you've had time you've had time you were you should have built the infrastructure for saquon to be a superstar in this league now he's probably going to win offensive player of the year yeah against on your rival your rival's team because you know why the eagles build and retool an offensive line every single year for what 10 years and to be fair

shane has tried but the evan neal was a massive miss and they had the opportunity to shuffle some offensive linemen around in free agency and like illuminor has been fine but again like michael schmitz has he was bad last year he's a little bit better this year but he is still struggling you signed john runyon so okay i'm not holding Andrew Thomas getting hurt against you but even when Andrew Thomas was in there it was bad so to me going back to whatever it was five ten minutes ago when we sort of started this discussion the issue for me now becomes what do you believe about Joe Shane as a talent evaluator? Are you going to give him another draft? Because the Giants are going to pick in the top eight. It's just a matter of how high they're going to pick.

They are now going to have to select a quarterback at some point. Like they're going to get aggressive. They have to take one in this class. There's no way they're not going to do so. Do you trust Shane to not only draft that quarterback, but also then in the rounds that follow, draft the appropriate team building players, particularly on the offensive line that you now desperately need to try to boost up whatever quarterback that you're going to draft in the first round?

Do you trust Joe Shane to do that? Because in the first two drafts that he had swings at it, the answer is no. But in this past one, it's been elite. So which one of it do you believe the most? I am very curious to hear what Giants fans think about Joe Shane. Do you think that, hey, you know what? Early GMs, they struggle, they learn. This past draft, that's a reflection of who he is now as

Italian evaluator or are you in the opposite direction do you would you not give him another year as a drafter and I think that's why we got to talk about GM and head coach candidates just because of that conversation when you look at the trenches specifically yeah I somehow i still think joe shane deserves to draft his quarterback although it's getting ugly quick i wouldn't have that take that's fine i think i think it's fair it's weird i am a true fence sitter with the giant situation i'm not just pressing the fire everyone button i need legitimate scenarios of who they have a chance at. If the Giants could go hire Mike Vrabel with a, him pitching a capable offensive staff with him, then I would move on from this group and press that button to get back to the

Coughlin CEO kind of ways with this organization. If the Giants just fire everyone and it's like, yeah, we're going to try to get back to the organization we were with 70-something-year-old Bill Belichick making every decision, I'm out. Or we're going to throw a flyer at a coordinator like Bobby Sloek, I'm out. So we're done bringing up Ben Johnson because Ben Johnson does not want any job that's not perfect. And the Giants job, like many of the jobs on Fix Your Franchise, are far from perfect. It's got to be like a real, real legitimate replacement option. And that's tough to pull off. All right.

Well, I want to get into a couple of the candidates that we're going to talk about. And then I will tell you where I am on either side of the fence with moving on from this regime or not. But before we do that, got to mention to people that this show is sponsored by our friends over at BetterHelp. Think of a time when you recently, you know, didn't feel like your full self. You know, you're out at a, whether it's a social event or around your family, somebody, and you feel like you got a costume on, you're hiding behind a mask. You cannot be, you know, just your true natural self. This time of year, especially with Halloween,

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So I think a lot of the general manager candidates, we talked about this, did we do the Jets last? Fix Your Franchise, was that the one? Yeah, that was the last one that we did. Did we do the Jets last? Fix Your Franchise? Was that the one? Yeah, that was the last one that we did. So we brought up a lot of general manager options for the Jets, and I think those names are pretty similar. If you didn't hear that one, I could just kind of go over them.

John Spitek, he's the top-tier talent evaluator for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. He's sort of the right-hand man to Jason Light. He came up through the scouting side of things. Connor, I'm going to be honest with you. I think Spitek would be great for this team because you're on this one i i'm glad you enlightened us i didn't know how much he'd been responsible for with a very successful bucks org and i think when we talked about the jets we talked about guys who are sort of proven culture winners guys who know what it's like to have a winning identity

in the building that being a paramount part of how you're going to build out your decision makers we talked about john dorsey or pete carroll being a head of football operations we talked about again spy tech or um mike borgonzi the assistant general manager under brett veach for the kansas city chiefs bringing those guys in as general manager. And then as head coach, we talked about a lot of different people, but we talked about needing a head coach who knows what it's like to set up a winning culture there with the New York Jets. To me, if you're going to move on from Joe Shane, the number one focal point is you have to get somebody in there

who knows how to evaluate talent. Evaluate talent. John Spitek is one of those guys Ed Dodds who we've talked about from the Indianapolis Colts has talked about as one of the best talent evaluators in the league it's guys like that I think that Mike Borgonzi could be there as well um you know maybe Ian Cunningham from the Bears we mentioned the last episode he is the um right hand man to Ryan Poles He's interviewed for general manager spots before. But, like, that is what I would want. I would go towards a talent evaluator, somebody who has come up

and experienced the pro personnel side of things, the scouting side of things. Because some of these guys, you know, they'll come from the analytics background. They'll come from, like, a contracts background, things like that. Not that I'm saying there's anything against those guys but for the for the Giants specifically if you're moving on from chain you better be getting somebody you think is an upgrade as a talent evaluating general manager so that would be my plea there for GM honestly yeah no you're absolutely right you got to make sure that you're not just pressing a button to press a button. And I think John Mara is very careful with that.

It's just I'm fascinated by the how you open the podcast of you feel better about Dable than Shane. But can you make one higher while keeping the other? And the answer is you probably can. It's not always something you want to do, especially especially table's a pretty explosive personality we've seen, but, and this, I guess this is a bad example because it hasn't gone the way they'd hope, but to show one way of them doing it, like Adam Gase was the coach of the jets when they brought in Joe Douglas, but then when it didn't work with Gase, they did let Joe Douglas hire his own head coach. So there are plenty of examples of examples of you know teams getting to do this but you'd have to feel really really strongly about dable to press that button of firing shame but keeping him and

then you need to make sure that doesn't limit your candidate pool because some candidates it's like anything in real life folks there's people that people don't want to work with right it's like i mean let's when we started this podcast this came together because you and i knew we really wanted to work together yeah you hated my guts and i want to show you yeah we've kind of powered through it you know we know you know that's just that's what life's about disney movie script two podcasters who hated each other and now here we are here here we are just doing two shows a week and we have a community called the sex addicts unbelievable turn of events so yes it's um where do you fully land on like you're you're kind of like me where it's hey it's got to be a certain candidate for this group it's not

just get somebody else and do something different so this was gonna i going to kind of transition into this. Head coaching candidates are tough for me for the New York Jets. Or, sorry, for the Giants. Because I don't know many that are available that I'd actually rather have over Brian Dable. It's very difficult, in my opinion. Honestly, even Mike Vrabel, I'd be like, I'd rather have Dable. I would, I get it. I, I, I like, I would entertain that one. I think I would sort of like explore that option. Obviously the Ben Johnson one is interesting, but basically every other head coach option that I feel like is out there, I would rather have Dable. So I don't think I'm the biggest Joe Shane fan.

Talking about how, which side are you on, the one where is 2014 the real one or is 2022 the real one? I would move on from Shane this offseason. But if you're telling me that the only way I keep Dable is if I keep Shane, then I'm keeping him because I want to keep Ryan Dable. I would give them another year. There are not many head coaches that I would trust still more than Brian Dable to develop a young quarterback,

especially the one that he would get to pick. Now, it's not a great quarterback class. I understand it. But even for the imperfections that these quarterbacks show, I think the Giants will have a realistic shot because I think realistic is the key word there. Caleb Williams, there was no way you were getting up to number one. Jaden Daniels, there was no way you were getting up to number one. Jaden Daniels, there was no way you were getting up to number two.

And very clearly, Drake May, there was no way that you were getting up to number three. So when you think about it, you can sit here and say, ah, you know, this quarterback class is not as good as it was last year. Basically, the only quarterbacks that the Giants had to choose from were J.J. McCarthy, Bo Nix, or Michael Penix. That was it. They were not getting up for the other three. So don't even put them in the conversation.

It's not even realistic. And I think, for as much as there's not a ton of hype for this quarterback class currently, if Dayball got his choice of Cam Ward, Shadur Sandersrett nussmeyer jalen milrow i think there is one of those four guys that dayball would go yeah i can win with this dude yeah we can not but not even not even from a have to perspective i think him getting to hand pick one of those four players yields good results. And I don't know if that's the case for another head coach that's realistically out there for them. So because of that, because of how important quarterback is,

if I've got to keep Joe Shane to keep Brian D'Abel, I'm doing it. I'm keeping them both. That's where I land in that debate. I'm not really against you there. I think this is worst case. You run it back one more time. You give them their quarterback. You see what you could really do with that in place.

Let's not forget. Sometimes when you get a quarterback, it does just kind of change the smell of the room. I remember I'll never forget. A hundred percent. After the first show we did, after C.J. Stroud's regular season debut, I believe it was against Baltimore,

we were looking at each other and we were like, man, we like C.J. Stroud, but what are we going to learn this year? The Texans just, they got a long ways to go. They were coming out of a really, really bad multi-year period. And Stroud's play the rest of the year after that uplifted and changed the perception of that entire organization and I'm not saying there's a quarterback in this class that is CJ Stroud the odds of chances of that is extremely unlikely to be honest with you but

the point is it can kind of cover up some of the stink in other areas and give you a little bit more of a vision of what you can do and what you want to do. And not everything has to be perfect everywhere. And I think I got to see how the season ends because there are moments with the Giants, even recently, their two-point play calling is just perplexing. The way they handle various kicker situations over the last two years is perplexing, but there is still promise in the overall structure of this offense and Dable as a coach and who he is hired at times on his staff as well, which does mean a lot.

And like you said, Trevor, if that means that Shane has to stay, then Shane, who has what we think is two not so great drafts and one that we really like. Let's see if he can get his record up to 500. So I think that the more powerful conversation might be because it does still feel like that Brian D'Abel is going to be the guy here. And before we get into the roster, I wonder if both of these guys are staying, if Shane and D'Abel are staying, I wonder if this is a situation like with Sirianni last year where they go, okay, you are on the hot seat, but we are keeping you.

We're basically making you fire your offensive and defensive coordinators. We're basically making you make a change here. You better make a change at these spots. So I wonder if offensive and defensive coordinators are going to be out for the Giants if they end up keeping Brian Dable. Now, to me, Shane Bowen is in this year for Wink Martindale. So that's sort of a recent change. But Mike Kafka is offensive coordinator.

I mean, he's been a play caller of this team in the past. He was the offensive coordinator for the first two years that Brian D'Abel was here. And then he's still the offensive coordinator. But now he also has the assistant coach tab as well. But he doesn't call plays now either. He's interviewed for head coach jobs over the last two cycles so it's a little bit different than it was with the philadelphia eagles but if there's a situation where they say you've gotta you you've gotta make a change one way or the other if we're gonna keep

you we're moving on for both these coordinators. It's very clearly not working. I think the offensive coordinator candidate that makes the most sense to me is the Davis Webb one that I brought up last week for the Jets because the whole reason why Davis Webb is even the quarterback's coach for the Denver Broncos right now is because of the rave reviews that Brian Dable gave of him when he was asked about him, when the Broncos were sort of looking into who they were going to hire at that position, they weren't even considering him, but how highly Brian Dable talked to Davis Webb,

who was a former quarterback for him, that meant a lot. And so I wonder if, if Kafka's out, he probably gets the similarity of Davis Webb, who is commanding a lot of respect from around the league. It sounds like to potentially be that offense coordinator there. Defensive coordinator is a little different. I've got three suggestions for defensive coordinator for them. And obviously, it could be a name throughout the NFL. But my three suggestions, these names that popped into my head as outside the box defensive coordinators, because it's either sort of position coach guys, or maybe

you're looking at a college level. Glenn Schumann is the defensive coordinator for the Georgia Bulldogs and has been for the last couple of seasons. And he's been with Georgia since 2016. He's a younger defense coordinator, but he is a Kirby smart type of a dude. Those defenses have played excellent under him. He knows how to coach NFL players because those guys on the Georgia defense are now in the NFL and playing really good football.

So it's not like there's this big learning curve with Schumann. I think that he is an option there. Brian D'Abel has obviously been coached. He has obviously coached in the SEC. He has coached Alabama. He understands what it's like to make the jump from there into an NFL spot. Will Muschamp is another guy that I would bring up to the table, former defensive coordinator, but also head coach with South Carolina

and with the University of Florida. He's the co-dc at Georgia as well I would consider him certainly given his head coaching experience if he doesn't want to deal with recruiting if he wants to just coach football again I'd use a great defensive mind he was the head coach of Florida when Dan Quinn was his defensive coordinator and they ran a phenomenal defense at Florida so I think that he could transition just like Dan Quinn did and then the other one that I will mention is a new name that I was able to look up. Christian Parker, past game coordinator, defensive backs coach for the Philadelphia Eagles. He's been in the NFL since 2019. He is young. He's only 32 years old, but he's coached under Fangio. He's coached under Mike Elko. He's coached under Ejiro Evero. And he is somebody who it seems like he is on the rise here when it comes to those

potential defensive coordinator candidates. Again, we had a lot of those guys that we found through different outlets of written material. Ari Maroff from 33rd Team wrote that one where I found Christian Parker's name, but I like that connection if there is anyone at all to potentially be a position coach to defensive coordinator elevation there for this group. So those are the offensive to defensive coordinator elevation there for this group so those are

the offensive and defensive coordinator suggestions that i had for this team if it really is going to be dable stays but you got to change the coordinators those are the guys that i have in mind there i like it it's an interesting list and it's it's unique in a sense where it brings some guys to the table that haven't gotten that kind of chance. What's fascinating with this team is that, and I think this is just kind of the table experience, you know, Kafka, it didn't do really a bad job,

but table is a little bit of a control freak on that side of things. And, and took it, you know, took things back from him. I guess you just have to wonder this feels like an organization it's like the same with the Dolphins right with Mike McDaniel where yes they're the head coach of the team but they're always going to have the full grasp now going forward on the play calling

on the offensive game plan on the adjustments of the second half but I don't think there's anything wrong with that it's just it's probably do you think it's harder though for guys like that to make hires it's almost like you're going to a company where you know there's no ladder for you at times um no I guess the other argument is I don't think Brian Callahan called plays for the Bengals and he ended up getting a head coaching job with the Titans yeah I don't I don't think so I think elevation is elevation to be honest with you right and all those guys that I listed would be elevating people so that's why it's like you I mean we could talk about defensive coordinators throughout the NFL who might get fired and might make lateral moves or just whatever but I'm always trying to sort of look at the next man up kind of players

because you know or sorry coaches because the good ones don't necessarily leave unless for a head coach gig and we're not talking about an elevation to a head coach gig so that's why i wanted to shout those guys out there you ready to get into the roster yes this is a roster that uh needs some fine tuning all right underselling it key pieces potential cuts free agents for 2025 we'll talk about a free agency strategy some team needs

and then we'll get to the mock draft for the New York Giants at the end Connor I think like we did last week I'm gonna list off some team key pieces

guys that you can build around on either side of the ball and you tell me if I'm missing anybody okay you ready Malik Neighbors first one

of course I think Tyroneacy is the next one and andrew thomas not necessarily inward but those are no collection of offensive stalwarts those are the three that i have on offense that's it though i agree am i missing anybody else no i know he's in dealing with, I believe it a concussion, but I would try to get some kind of draft capital back for Darius Slayton. Right,

right. I spot. Yeah, I hear you. Like, yeah, I think he's valuable. Like you said,

I don't think he's like a key piece. Well, he's a free agent. So he's a free agent that it was kind of a surprise. He came back in the first place. Slayton's a fine player and he's had a fine NFL career. I've always kind of wondered what his career would be like elsewhere. But he went back to the Giants. So, yeah, that that's the core for the giants on offense and it

it's kind of illuminating how you only named one offensive lineman no matter how many pieces they've thrown on this offensive line i think it speaks to some of the issues uh defense side of the football i got dexter lawrence hell yeah i got brian burns because you just traded inside him so he ain't going anywhere. No, that's right. I have Drew Phillips, and I have Tyler Newben. Those are my four. No Kayvon Thibodeau. I think Kayvon Thibodeau is good.

Right. I think he's movable. Like, I don't think that they— Well, listen to this. Okay. They kind of have to make this decision soon because get off the pot as they say yeah that's exactly what it is i try to i have a sailor's mouth especially on the show so i've been trying to at least pick my spots i'm not going to eliminate who i am as a human being but yes azizo jolari is having a fine, but he's a guy that probably gets moved before the deadline.

I would think. Aziz has six sacks. Now that you are two and seven, and he is on a career pace for sacks, you trade him. You trade him, which is a shame, because I think Aziz is a really nice player. But they have their mind made up of what this D-line looks like. I think you have to trade one.

You're either trading Aziz Ocalari or you're trading Kayvon Thibodeau. I agree with you. If both of these teams, if both of those players are on the roster for you next week, I think you failed. And we know who the GM, the GM is not going to trade a guy he took in the top five.

Right. So you trade, again, it takes two to tango. I very much understand that. But if these two players- People say that is again it takes two to tango i very much understand that but if these two people say that does it take two to tango physically or does it only what he three four could it take five to tango i don't know i've always i've often wondered this if there's any dance specialists out there Let us know if you actually need a second person to do the tango you tango. Can you tango yourself? I won't waste any more time I mean that would be that would be earth-shattering if you could tango technically you can tango alone And then people stop using that for trade deal talk man. I'd be there. I'd be the most annoying person ever

What do we say actually you only need one hold the phone okay that that will that will negatively impact my view on joe shane if both of these addresses are on the team next week they need assets like why just get assets right now so another lost season pray that you get to keep the job and pray that you get to use those assets slayton and ojolari get two day three pecs back yeah i mean you might even now now you wouldn't be able to get a third round pick for ojolari he's a really fine player i know teams need edge rushers but i don't think you're you're getting a third round pick for him like if you're the lions why would you not make

a call for aziz ocelari sure yeah yeah or make the call for cave on that's gonna be really you can have cave on and aiden hutchinson that'd be really interesting i don't think they would do it no i just don't think he's their type of guy no he's not he's not I don't think he's good enough a run defender uh okay so yeah that's depressing that was a very short list no that that's all I have I just problematic the two rookies Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns that's all I got yeah it's hard to argue with you here I think Dexter Lawrence might be the best defensive player in the NFL, which is a good, he's unbelievable.

It's actually, it's really a shame how bad the giants have been because he's, well, he's like on a hall of fame trajectory. Like I can't even, I can't even put Deontay banks on this list now. No, no,

no way. No way. Banks has been terrible this year. My, that's not to say we're saying get rid of them. That's not how football works. You have to feel the 53 man roster. And again, it's not like we're saying, okay, we'll just get rid of cave on Tibidone.

Is he social? Are like, that's, that's not what we're saying. It is. Who are you building this around moving forward? Right. When you sit in the war room and you do the draft meetings and all this stuff, and you kind of blueprint your pre free agency strategy. these are guys that they are written in ink on our starting roster right now like on our depth chart they're not going to sit there and go hey

this corner that fell that we love in the third round we can't take them because deontay banks is here that's the conversation but that conversation might be different for hey this edge rusher that we really like in the third round we we feel good about our edge group. So that's what you're trying to highlight. Potential cuts? There's not many. There's only two, in fact, that I have on here. Yeah, what do you got?

I have Daniel Jones, obviously, because he's 22 million dead cap, but you save 19 mil. So you get 3 million of dead cap, but you move on from Daniel Jones, which I think you have to do. And then the only other one that actually would make sense to cut is if you wanted to cut Jermaine Illuminor.

Right. He's 2.7 mil in dead cap, but you save 6.5 mil on the cap. So you're gaining an extra $4 million on cap. I know, but you're financially, he would be a typical cut candidate. But the problem is they are so thin on the offensive line that you can't cut him. I am with you. I don't think I would cut him because the $4 million is not worth it

because he has played decently well over the last three seasons. Now, this would be his worst or lowest graded season of the last three, but I think the experience alone with him being 29, you basically have to keep him at this point, especially if Evan Neal is not going to be on the football team next year. Right, and to be fair to illuminor he's played multiple positions this year i believe so the giants haven't really set him up for success let's look i'm almost positive he's moved around multiple times he has played played guard and tackle, correct?

No, he's played right tackle the whole time. He's played right tackle the whole year. Okay, so I know he has guard flexibility. He played, oh, wait a second. He hasn't played guard since 2022, but he also played guard in 2021. So he has plenty of guard experience. He must have taken snaps there over the summer. Unless I'm just completely...

Well, maybe it was part of the Evan Neal thing. That's what I'm saying. Why am I thinking of a Luminor in a Giants uniform working at guard? It had to be a training camp. Obviously, I'm very in tune with the training camps of the Jets and the Giants here. Either way, it's great that he has the ability to do both, and that's why I wouldn't cut him. I don't move on from him.

Free agents they have in this team, Darius Slayton, Isaiah Simmons, Aziz Ojolari, Jason Pinnock, Aaron Stinney, Drew Locke, Greg Van Roten, and Adoree Jackson are the other notable ones. There are a couple of other ones but like those are the actual notable free agents and then when you look at this team they're pretty much at the cap floor right now for this season they have 48 million dollars in expected cap space for next year 19th most in the nfl so they're not really free agent rich they're not really free agent rich. They're not.

But it's not like they got to really sign somebody to come back at this point. So a lot of that $48 million can probably, I mean, you probably, what, maybe 18 mil to bring certain players back? Like maybe you bring Slayton back, I guess. Yeah. If he wants to come back. But if you cut Daniel Jones, then you're upping this to, what is it, 67 million? Yeah, they have enough money. I have to look up.

By the way, while you're looking that up, what I was thinking was, I found tweets from you know the middle of summer he was he was preparing to start at left guard this season and then you know you get into camp shit hits the fan he's played right tackle the whole year but that was from the giants beat that he was preparing to play left guard for the giants that was the plan when they signed him illuminator so um and an extra oh shoot no i forgot um you saved 19 million on the cap but it's 22 million dead cap space so it's actually three mil that you're eating in dead cap space if you're cutting daniel jones so it gets feasible to do but you're not saving any

money in doing so i got i got that mixed up so you're actually at like 45 million in cap space. Right. I guess you could, in theory, spread the money around. If you designate Jones as a post June cut, he's 11.1 in dead money, 30.5 in cap savings. Okay. And let's be real folks.

Like you're just spreading out your problems rather than taking one haymaker to the jaw but some teams like to do that because the cap explodes every year thanks to the wonderful television dollars that's yeah that's true so all right let's let's let's try to like wrap it up here like not the podcast because we have a little bit more to go i mean like the free agency strategy because it sounds like it sounds like we're not making a change general manager head coach more more than likely right and are you i just don't think that's realistic for the giants right now when you hear it from the mouth of the owner now that changes with a disastrous finish to the

season sure but we're we're sitting here and recording this podcast the first week in november and it doesn't look like they're willing to do that so i think there's a world where you're not really moving on from general manager or head coach you're moving on from your quarterback but it's going to cost you three mil on the cap you're at about 19th 20th and total cap space available you don't have major players that you're really going to bring back in free agency especially if you're changing defense coordinators you could have new coordinators on this team but there's not a lot of players that you really view untouchable Jermaine Illuminor still going to be on this offensive line John Michael Smith's still going to be on this offensive line John Runyon still going to be on this

offensive line Andrew Thomas is so in reality you basically just have either a right tackle or a right guard spot that you are trying to fill I think that's what it is, right? Because Runyon plays left guard. Yeah, he plays left guard. So with Greg Van Roten gone, you're either putting Luminor at guard or you're putting him at tackle. So you've at least got one of those spots to fill in free agency.

When I look at the team needs for this team, quarterback's a major one. Cornerback, I think, is a major one now all of a sudden at this point. Offensive tackle slash offensive guard, whether you think that you need to address the one spot or maybe upgrade at other spots as well. And then wide receiver. I think wide receiver's huge,

especially if you are losing Darius Slayton, you have to get another wide receiver in here. Yeah, you do. I mean, is that where we're at, heading into free agency? Yes. You need a veteran quarterback you absolutely need to get a piece on this offensive line there's just no way around it as much as those pieces can be few and far between in free agency because nobody lets those pieces get to free agency um all right you want to hear my free agency strategy yeah uh bucks fans are gonna murder me for this but chris godwin is is player number one to me okay

chris godwin is player one for me for the new y like it. Because he is reliable. I understand that he's coming off of a major injury. Chris Godwin is reliable. He is a dirty work type of a receiver. He does everything that you want. When he has been healthy, he has been a top 15 receiver in the NFL. He is a monster at contested catches. He will catch at the sideline. He will get you yards after the catch. He will go over the middle. He can beat you deep. He can be a screen player for you. Chris Godwin is a complete wide receiver at the NFL level, and him and Malik Nabors are a legit one-two combo, no matter who your next quarterback is going to be.

They complement each other perfectly. He's player one for me. I love it. Player two is Zach Martin if the Dallas cowboys let him out okay player three is whatever financial level you can get to to pay the best player of dj reed diomedore lenore paul cindybo or byron murphy yep and i man what's Reed going to get? I don't think his deal is going to be that different than his last deal, ironically.

Only because he got older. He's been a good player, but Reed signed a three-year, $33 million deal with the Jets before the 2022 season. So you think you can get Reed for $10 million a year? Yeah. Because the reality is he's gonna be a 29 year old five foot nine corner that plays on the outside not the slot maybe i'm wrong and

maybe maybe you you kick the money around differently where say he gets 13 million a year but there's really two years of guarantees yeah so i'd go chris godwin's gonna get somewhere around like 20-ish i think with the injury could have got i think he could have got more but in my opinion it's gonna float somewhere around 20 maybe it'll be as high as like 23 ish i don't think it's getting i don't think it's getting in like the 30 million year category shoot maybe i'm crazy for that but he's coming off the injury yeah i don't think so either all those guys that got paid were younger than him i know right right right so i don't know

maybe it's somewhere around 23 so if you've got 45 mil to work with in cap you've got to fill out the rest of your team so i don't know let's let's budget we've got let's say we've got like 30 mil to work with i guess if chris godwin's gonna cost you 23 you're basically gonna look at oh man i don't know if you can make a big signing after that i was gonna say it goes quick right we're running out of money it goes really quick those are my those are my priority targets for this team i'm curious as to hear how the people listening would prioritize it, but I would prioritize Chris Godwin even coming off the injury. I think he's

the most important part. It's hard to argue against that. If you could find a way to get Chris Godwin to the Giants and be a compliment to Malik neighbors. I'd be into a couple other names I'd be interested in. What is Trey Smith going to cost for that

offensive line 20 26 year old free agent he'd give you a real identity player at guard i would be exciting to me oh what about james daniels yeah right i like james daniels a lot actually we've talked about him before like for the raiders? You're going out and you're getting a high profile interior player. So Daniels, who's coming off the injury, Trey Smith, who's really good. If they like Illuminor at right tackle,

you don't need to look at the very thin right tackle market. The only guy on there that I'd be interested in is he's cross town. Morgan Moses with the jets who I don't think the jets will let go again, but he's cross town morgan moses with the jets who i don't think the jets will let go again but he's a pro's pro but if they like a luminor at right tackle and they go in with andrew thomas at left then you're going to be paying one of the big time interior players oh i also didn't realize that lucas patrick's a free agent that's interesting and he i get he's 31 but like i'd i'd get him a card right and that might be a little bit more manageable for the giants yeah okay i i like this i like this now chris godwin and lucas patrick who is one of the

highest graded guards that we had in football the first couple of weeks of the season now it's kind of unraveled a little bit for the same guy right yeah he is a calf injury he did he did get hurt and he's he's played a little bit but he did get get hurt, and I think just losing Eric McCoy at center really just killed the overall vibes of this offensive line. And then corner. Yeah, Reid is a... What's his projected market value? Yeah, I guess he was 11 last time he signed.

Byron Murphy was 8. Christian Fulton's three. Emmanuel Mosley, who I'd love to take a flyer on. He's just been hurt the last two seasons, basically missed the last two years. He's two, so I guess if you want to take a flyer on an outside corner, who I think is good if he's healthy,

Emmanuel Mosley, I mean, he's only 28. You probably get him for a couple mil. Maybe he could start on the outside for you. The free agent market's gross if you're looking to really rebuild a team it's thin i like a debo though too they can get an answer at corner here all right that's that's that's what i'm going with i'm going with i'm going with chris godwin lucas patrick paulson adibo those are my three those are the three free agents that i'm adding for this team i i would look to pay trey smith okay that would that would be my number trey smith that would be my priority sign and

then see if i can get you know maybe a little better depth at wide receiver. If I spent all that money on Trey Smith and I can't afford a Godwin, can I try to get some value on Demarcus Robinson, Stephon Diggs coming off serious injury, more of a value player like that, even a Deontay Johnson? I'd be shopping in that market. I wonder where Deontay Johnson's going to go now. It's not with Carolina. Then he got traded again.

Free agent. Are they going to bring him back in Baltimore? He's a free agent coming up. I don't know. That'll be interesting. It is easier to go bargain bin shopping at wide receiver than it is offensive line. That's my thought.

Yeah, that's my thought. You know what? I'm sticking with my plan. Sticking with it. All right. Hey, we got a three-round mock draft still to compliment the free agency that we just had uh before we get into that when you were hiring for your small business you want to find the quality professionals that are right for the role that's why you got to check out LinkedIn jobs LinkedIn

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Terms and conditions do apply. Time to fire it up. Let's do it. Let's add it to the show. It's everybody's favorite mock draft simulator the pff mock draft simulator over at pff.com if you don't have a pff plus subscription you can go get one at subscribe.pff.com and you can get the fully unlocked mock draft simulator which gives you all these customizable options to do as many rounds as you want we are going to do

a three round new york giants mock draft here'll enter the draft, kind of establish sort of the team needs that we have here, some offensive line needs, wide receiver needs, some quarterback needs. In my scenario, I'd like to go after those three positions in free agency. Connor and I sort of prioritize a little bit different, but we can work through this mock draft, and I think that we could come to a healthy middle ground with sort of who we're going to pick here. Do we want to, well, I guess it doesn't matter.

I was going to say, do we want to try to move Aziz Ojolari or Darius Slayton or something, but we're not getting it. We're not going to get capital back that will impact our draft. You are correct. Yeah, you are correct there. All right, so let's start the draft. New York Giants are picking seventh overall here. Who's off the board? Who's off the board? Travis Hunter's off the board.

Will Johnson, Tetreault, McMillan, Jalen, Milrow, Mason Graham, Malachi, Starks, which means we got Cam Ward and Shadur Sanders still on the board, baby. I feel like he's probably going to be down to one of those two. But, you know, just for fun to flex the mock draft simulator a little bit, we do have Will Campbell here. We talked about offensive line being a need, offensive tackle for lsu he is still here no offensive tackle taken so that means that kelvin banks jr from texas also available here like that uh we got some wide receiver talent don't think we're gonna take one at seven but you know luther

burton the third isaiah bond both of these guys are here. Connor, what do you think? Walk me through it. Well, I'd like to start with that. I think it'd be dishonest if we, I just feel like the Raiders take Shadur there at six. How do they not, right? How do they not? I think they're taking a quarterback. Well, sure.

Whether it's him or Cam Ward. Yeah. I don't think this scenario is very realistic for the Giants at seven, which is how it goes this early in the year i know wait for the jets we got cam ward around the spot do you think that's the only difference or do you think that all three quarterbacks are going to be off the board with jaylen i think milrow will be there i think sanders and and Ward will not. Okay. Because I, man, look at the teams in front of them, dude. Like, really? Well, Carolina might need a new quarterback. Might.

We're throwing the word might in there with Bryce Young coming out on fire, 1-0 in the last week. He's revived his career. But I do agree with you, New Orleans Saints. Now, here's the thing. Yeah, go ahead. Are the Saints going to pick a quarterback? I think so.

Well, if you want to hear more on that, you should tune into the episode that we have coming up for you. They all hate Derek Carr for whatever reason. Yeah, they just drafted the Rat Pack. Yeah, and the Rat Pack, it's a tough go of it but it's a lot of time i was gonna say come on come on brother just drafted the rat pack in the fifth round they got jay gainer you know we didn't talk about during free agency which is really interesting i think or it sparked this idea the giants need to go into the draft with at least a capable

quarterback on their roster they can't just go into the draft with at least a capable quarterback on their roster. They can't just go into the draft and be like, Oh man, we better get someone in front of Tommy DeVito. I got Tommy D. What do you think Sam Darnold is going to cost too much? Yeah,

he might be right. He might've played his way into too much money. Yeah. For this team. Yeah. You think he gets more than Baker got or is that, is that the deal? What was Baker's?

No, he's not going to get more than Baker. Baker signed a three-year, $100 million contract. More importantly, $50 million of it was guaranteed, $40 of it at signing. He might get $40 million guaranteed at signing. No, I think Baker, I think Darnold's going to be close, though. I really do. Because what if the Vikings make the playoffs?

Well, they're going to make the playoffs. Well, then Darnold's going to look good. Yeah, he might not look good in the playoffs, but Sam has been fine this year. I think Darnold's absolutely going to play his way out of what the Giants can spend. Yes. And the Vikings, they're not gonna in theory

like are they gonna pay sam darnold no no all this money when jj mccarthy's coming back right so sam has to go somewhere and he's well i guess the the only other viable ones are justin fields jamis winston russell wilson russell wilson they've long liked but russell wilson will be 37 will he really yeah wow that's that's actually like that's kind of a mind-blowing oh man with russ russ will be 36 as a free agent he will turn 30 very interesting he'll turn 37 during next season. Cause Russ is playing well, but I bet that's who the giants go after. But if Russ is playing well,

he goes back to the Steelers. Probably goes back to the Steelers. That's exactly right. And why would I did not even think of Russell Wilson, but I actually don't think that's out of the question. I think they're going to get one of Sam Darnold, Russell Wilson. That gets pretty ugly quick.

Justin Fields? Oh, wow. Quarterbacks aren't available? Shocker. But isn't this exercise proving that they have to have someone on the roster? I feel like if it's anybody, it's like Mason Rudolph. But that doesn't do anything for you. That does nothing for you.

I'd rather sign Jameis than Mason Rudolph. I don't know if you can. Jameis is such a one-to-one case. Yeah, he's an enigma. Like, Jameis is just not a backup quarterback. It's sort of like what people thought about with Baker Mayfield. Like, Tampa was basically Baker's last shot. If it didn't work out in Tampa, Baker was going to be out of the league.

Yeah. Like, who wants – Baker's not a backup quarterback type. Baker's the type of quarterback that if you have him on the bench as a backup, the fans are always going to, like, put pressure on the starting quarterback, fair or not, because Baker's there. I don't think Baker's an usher in the next rookie quarterback type of a dude, and I don't feel like James Winston's that way either. No, it's definitely a weird the usher in the rookie quarterback is jacoby brissett andy dalton joe flacco those are the free those are the free agents that that aligns with yeah

i i could see one of them the giants should find a way to get Darnold. Dude, Darnold's going to be... He's got to play somewhere. I'm not even the biggest Sam Darnold believer, by the way. Darnold's going to get like 30 mil a year. They're not going to do shit on the rest of the roster. Yeah, you're right.

And it would just be throwing Sam Darnold back into the Jets. Correct, yes. it would just be throwing sam darnell back into the correct yes it would just be darnell on this stadium same stadium same coaches same gm he'd look up at the lights and be like oh god not again oh man yeah no i know i don't think dog they're not getting they're not getting they're not getting sam dar No, you talked me out of that, and I'm glad you did. Yeah, you're like, I'm not allowing this again. Stop it. He's not going back to New York. Geno got cut. He's not going back to New York.

All right. So do you want to say that Shador Sanders and Cam Ward are not going to be available at this point with them sitting at number seven? No, I think we should give the Giants a quarterback in this scenario. Because, God, if Joe Shane goes into the draft and he didn't sign a quarterback and then these guys are gone, like, just pack it up. Unfortunately, it is somewhat realistic.

As much as I hate saying that for Giants fans, you've got to realize that the Giants have the seventh overall pick because they have the highest strength of schedule of all of the two and seven teams. There's seven teams right now that are two and seven. And then there's two additional ones that are two and six. And if you throw in the two additional ones that are two and six, because they've had their bye weeks and the other teams haven't that are two and seven, the Giants still have the highest strength of schedule of any of those eight teams so if there is any tiebreaker at all whatsoever the Giants lose it wow that's that's a it's not a good place to be in it's a tough picture to paint so now we're back on Sam Darnold yeah now we have to on Sam Darnold now we have to sign Sam Darnold again

it just keeps happening there's no other answer I think the Giants end up picking six they get a guy I think they're picking six or seven in this draft, I really do I agree

a lot of bad football teams so you think that they're getting a quarterback I can see them getting Cam Ward in that spot So you think that they're getting a quarterback? I can see them getting Cam Ward in that spot. Or do they just take Garrett Nussmeier and we're all idiots? I think they should. Did we just take Cam? Who did we just take Cam for? We had Cam go to the Jets.

Obviously, that's well we did we did a mock with rogers and without yes that's very fair we did two mocks so we did two mocks for them but i think that cam is probably realistic for the giants though i'd be okay with us taking camera shadir here because i think you have you have to do well let's say that shadir goes to the raiders and then we'll we'll have cam fall in this spot that's fair all right cam ward taking cam ward in the first round uh popular choice here for fixture yeah yes very i mean hey what do you want us to do there's only so many quarterbacks and too many teams uh 39 now so we now have the quarterback in hand uh we've got some sort of a wide receiver i had them getting chris godwin and then getting lucas patrick and paul sanedivo you had them prioritizing trey smith so getting better along the offensive line and then drafted

getting some sort of wide receiver in there to sort of help them out i don't think offensive line's not going to be strong here anyways i don't know if wide receiver is either no not really no it goes quick this is a thin draft in those areas at times xavier watts is a hell of a player i know they just took a safety i just wanted to say that well if they lose jason pinnock they need another one that's very fair you know you can play you could play newton a little bit more downhill and watts free right which i liked a lot when newman was sort of in that area at minnesota i thought we were getting a lot out of him when that was the case i think i like that the most yeah when you look at this board. Because I think we can get a good receiver in the third round around 71.

Now I'm scrolling into the 70s on the mock draft simulator. There's just not a, there's not really, a receiver didn't really fall to us. Next receiver is, I got Juice Wells, Kobe Hudson, Xavier Restrepo, Jalen Royals, Kyron Lacey might be. If we want Kyron Lacey, I think we'd have to pick him now. Right. We did this last time with the Jets and we went Royals in the third round. Right, right, right, right. What do you think?

So in this scenario, we're thinking they got guard help, right? Somewhere. I want to make sure that's stated because I know people are like, well, Tyler Booker's there and Jaden Roberts is there. I just want to make sure people are aware of that. I don't love either of those players. Yeah, and I thought we got better solutions in free agency. Yeah.

I mean, Watts would be... I like Donovan Jackson more than a lot of those guys. I just don't really love a guard or center here. The guard or center class is pretty scarce this year. So if they're looking to upgrade this position, because what tackles are left? Emery, but I think Emery's a guard. Right.

You could say the same about Savania. Yeah, who I definitely think is a guard. Josh Connerly, I think he's playing a little better. He's been better this year. Damn, Michigan game is rough. I got to watch that tape. Yeah, I have not seen it either. That's what happens when you go against guys

that are going to be in the NFL. It's a little scary. Yeah, Ajani Cornelius struggled too. Yeah, that's not good. So I don't really love tackle here at this spot. Although Charles Grant's interesting because I think Grant could also be an interior player. Grant will be a big process player. He was on a stock up show for us.

He's going to go to the Senior Bowl. I would imagine he's Grant's going to grant's going to have a really nice process and be everybody's favorite third rounder William and Mary offensive tackle, by the way uh i don't think we need him here at 39 i i don't want anything to do with this offensive line class with this pick which is a shame right i mean you just talked through it and i'm like jesus should it be like i don't want anything to do with him i thought you were like you see it's just solely no no no no no i don't want't need to do it i'm more intrigued by him than some of these guys juday barons here from uh texas who's played outside and inside corner has also played safety he's more of an outside corner right now i think we had the jets take him we had the jets take him

uh sebastian castro who's more of just a slot corner than he is a safety and you got drew phillips to play the slot or wait yeah yeah drew phillips playing the slot i was like do they have outside first in this lot no no it's it's they haven't played in the slot i kind of like xavier watts i did i think he's my favorite player that's sitting here yeah again especially with jason pinnock being a free agent i mean that that secondary is going to be flying around. Say they got one of the corners that you brought up. He's 25, so they might bring him back, but...

I like Xavier Watts better. Me too. All right, let's take Xavier Watts from Notre Dame. A lot of interceptions over the last couple of seasons. Big-time ball hawk type of a player. Really would free up Tyler Newben to be more of that robber player over over the middle also a guy who can walk down into the box and just uh play as a roamer i think at the second level i think that that would really free him up pretty pretty well so we've got uh cam ward and then xavier watts now here with pick 71

i mean i actually do think it's realistic that like jayden roberts from alabama would still be here uh armageddon reed adams the offensive guard from texas a&m i think it's realistic that like Jaden Roberts from Alabama would still be here. Armageddon Reed Adams, the offensive guard from Texas A&M. I think there's a chance that he would be here. And Kyron Lacey. Yeah. Do I think Lacey would be available at 71? You never know.

Maybe. It's so early. It's hard for us to have a full read on that scenario. I think it's a reality. I like the, I like the fit a lot. We didn't warn to the jets. Yeah.

And Warren's going higher. We are, we already kind of talked about that. They like Theo Johnson. I think they, they believe in Theo Johnson. Now I could get down with who's an offense. Now if it's tackle still, I don't love it.

Uh, again, Charles Grant, who you want nothing to do with, I guess. Would be the one that's not true that slander praise. Can Charles Grant's get a listen to show? You can, I know he's like, man, this guy, this guy stinks. Why does he hate me? Yeah. What's up with that? This guy's an asshole. He just kicks my ass in the senior bowl field.

I think, uh, God, that'd be great tape. That would actually like for the pod. That'd be really good. It would be pretty good. I will. I wouldn't sue him or anything. I would just take my ass kicking and get up and all right. Yeah, we said I just send it to Ryan and we post it as a YouTube short, of course, because the last that long all right. So I don't hate offensive seven second to sure if my dad

we wanted to do Donovan Jackson or T tate rattledge i don't hate it i like both of those players a lot we sort of we sort of addressed guard already but i mean donovan jackson might even be able to play oh tate rattledge could probably also play center for you if it doesn't work out with john i was that's what i like about it is that if schmitz also can play guard and also just might unfortunately because i like the player a lot might not be very good i i it's a third round like let's get some competition in place here yeah i'm taking tate ratlidge here if i uh if i if i use my 50 vote i think i like that better than the wide receivers that we have available more More mullet for the Giants.

Yeah, and you really, I think one of the biggest things that we didn't talk about during the team building process, there's just not enough mullet. This is a bad hair team now that I think of it. Which is wild because Odell Beckham had some of the most famous hair in recent NFL history. That's very true. The other player that I'd be really intrigued with here

is Trey Harris from old mess. He's going to be, I got him at one 12, but he's going to be up on my recent stock up. I like him specifically as a vertical stretching type of receiver. I don't know if Kyron Lacey is going to be here at 71. Obviously I would consider him as well, but you know, you talk about, okay, Darius Slayton is going to be out. We need somebody in Trey Harris is I, great at that role. He is a much better version, in my opinion, of what you wanted Jalen Hyatt to be. Right.

He is bigger. He is stronger. He is faster. Well, faster, I don't know. Bigger and stronger. He's more of an NFL receiver. Ty Felton as well. Yeah, Felton's been flying this year.

Yeah, he might be able to wait on... Yeah, I think Tate Rallage is probably still the way to go, huh? Yeah, a little attitude for this offensive line that needs an attitude adjustment. Yeah, and I don't think Jaden Roberts could play center. Donovan Jackson maybe could for you. But I like Rallage better. I do.

I like him better.'re gonna draft him this is uh we're gonna draft him we yeah this is a pretty well-rounded draft i can't wait for pff to tell us we're absolute idiots great hold on what do we got what do we got what oh well the ratlidge pick is pretty late so it's gonna probably give us like a d for that one yep they tell us cam ward a minus all right c plus draft it's not bad it's not bad yeah you want to talk about the other two picks what d for xavier watts a d no no no no pfs doesn't know what they're talking about no they don't know what they're talking about um all right so there we go uh offensive plan it

seems like we're both gonna stick with joe shane and brian dable although i am more into maybe moving on from chain than it sounds like connor was but if it if it takes you have if it takes two to tango as i've been told my whole life which maybe it doesn't i don't know you've been lied to one can do the tango if one can tango then i'm sticking with brian dable but if it takes two to tango then i'm sticking with both of those guys you're moving on from daniel jones i'd love to get Chris Godwin, Lucas Patrick, and Paul Sanedivo here in free agency. Connor wants to prioritize Trey Smith, get

a nice wide receiver in there as well, probably take a flyer on a corner, maybe like an Emmanuel Mosley, something like that. We are ushering in the Cam Ward era. Oh, if we're changing offensive coordinator, I'm going to go with Davis Webb, the quarterback's coach from Denver, and if we're talking defensive coordinator,

I'd love to get Glenn Schumann from Georgia in here, but I also love Will Muschamp and Christian Parker as well. Those are the two guys that I talked about there. Cam Ward, the new quarterback on this team. Xavier Watts to replace Jason Pinnock and obviously Xavier McKinney, who left in free agency this past year. And then we're throwing in Tate Rattledge to continue to invest in the offensive line. Just could have straight up got to be better.

We would love to hear from you guys. Let us know what you thought of this Fix Your Franchise episode for the New York Giants. If you are a Giants fan and there is some Giants lore or backstory about how we got here with the New York Giants, we would love to hear it. The best way to do that, youtube.com backslash at NFL Stock Exchange. Get in on the comments. While you are there, please like and subscribe to the show.

We'd really appreciate it. It really helps us out. Like I said, our plan over the next, you know, month and a half or so do a lot of these fixture franchise episodes, deep dives into these NFL teams. And then right when the middle of December rolls around, we're going to get into these positional rankings

with college football, at least the regular season done and a lot of tape done for a lot of these guys. So we would love to do that. If you are audio only at team of a tray at Connor, Jay Rogers is a great way to get in on the show as well. Connor, you got anything else before we get out of here,

my friend? Well done, my friend, we have had cam ward, save another franchise, but yes, yes. In all seriousness,

the giants are one of the most interesting teams of the offseason, and that's going to start with the decision they make or don't have to make at the people at the top and trickle down from there. This is far from the last time we were talking about the New York Giants specifically on this podcast, but boy, is it a good starting point. Can't wait to hear from you guys on this one, honestly, because I know Giants fans are very passionate about their team getting better.

Let's make it better. With Fix Your Franchise, it's not just about what we have to say about the show. We would love to hear from you as well, so I cannot wait to read the comments from you guys. Appreciate everybody watching and listening. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Conor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast.

We will see you as we fix the New Orleans Saints on Thursday. See you guys then. Bye.