NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 283. Fix Your Franchise: New Orleans Saints

Episode Date: November 8, 2024

0:00 - Intro 8:40 - What went wrong 25:30 - Head coach candidates 44:00 - Drafting woes 51:30 - Fixing the cap 1:11:35 - Mock draft

Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we are doing the impossible. We are fixing the New Orleans Saints. And yes, that includes their salary cap situation. We'll do so much more than that. We'll talk about how the New Orleans Saints got here as a franchise, which is a layered story. We'll talk about potential new head coaching candidates.

And then, of course, dig into that negative salary cap situation that everybody likes to talk about. We will get them cap compliant. We have a plan to do so and the numbers to prove it plus give you not just a three-round mock draft for the saints but because we love you and the marshall latimore trade a four-round mock draft for the new orleans saints i'm sure for second with me as always is connor rogers let's ring the bell Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers. Joining you guys for another Fix Your Franchise episode of the program.

Today is a very exciting one. It's a highly anticipated, highly requested episode. Mainly, I think you guys just want to watch us sweat live on cam as we try to fix the New Orleans Saints salary cap amongst many other things here. But yes, we are fixing the New Orleans Saints here. Connor, how you doing, my friend? I'm good now. We'll see how it goes in about 25 minutes and when we do math on the podcast and actual number crunching and i haven't had this kind of you know math or school anxiety since i took a higher level cal course in college because it was required boy that was fun um yeah this is going to be something man there's no way around it like this is a true down to the studs rebuild yes this is the real deal i mean i we had fun with the jets one and we did the two avenues one with roger staying one

with him going with the giants there were some core pieces in place and there's the combo that like hey maybe brian dable and joe shane don't go anywhere with the raiders that we actually really liked that roster by the time we were done with the fixer franchise like you know what there's we could turn this thing around a little quicker with this one this team has been needing to do this for a long long time to now where it's at the point where there's no choice so this is truly from the ground up here it is long overdue to fix this franchise and get to this point in time so i think a lot of people have been talking about the saints like there were some people last year who were like please fix the

saints and it was sort of a situation where they almost made the playoffs really kind of ran out of time with this team but now is the time because now we really do get to break this one down and especially after the marshawn latimore trade we got some extra draft picks as well so if you're new to fix your fix your franchise here the way that we do it is we'll go through everything we'll tell you how we got here with the new orleans saints which is a fascinating story to really dig into and give you full context for we'll talk about the coaching situation we'll give some guys that we would love to see uh under the headset for them moving forward as their new head coach now that dennis allen is out and truly the sean payton era has moved on in new orleans of like Mickey Loomis,

who's still the general manager. But from the coaching staff's perspective, it is now fully gone from the Breeze and Payton era. We will fix this salary cap. I promise you we have a plan for it. I have the numbers. They are going to get cap compliant and we are going to tell you exactly how they're going to be able to do that. It's unreal. I've seen it. Normally, it's more math than I've done in years to get to this point. And then I'll say, Connor, we normally do a three-round mock draft, but because the Saints added a couple extra picks, an extra third-rounder, and an extra fourth-rounder, we love you guys so much.

We're going to give you a four-round mock draft here for the New Orleans Saints because it means a lot. They've got to get some rookies in here. Before we dig into all of it, though, I believe we had a birthday this week. Oh, boy. I believe we had a birthday this week, and it was not mine. Connor? It wasn't mine.

Happy belated birthday, my friend. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Meet everybody who is watching the show right now to pause the show. Oh, man. Go to the comments and wish your favorite co-host a a happy birthday i heard gracie in the background who uh also wanted to shout out as well so uh do what do anything special no it's like in the middle of a work week you get to do anything special you get away for a

little bit what'd you do a little bit we went out to dinner it was a weird birthday right number one everybody's it's the day after election day so everybody's just burnt out no matter what everybody's just tired the commercials the text some people waiting hours to vote like everyone's just not in the mood which is why i didn't walk in anywhere i didn't tell anyone at my job i didn't tell anyone the only person that really really knew or remembered besides my parents was my wife and i went out to dinner i did the restaurant did beer flights which usually obviously brewers do that but a restaurant to do beer flights was a just an absolute beauty really really made my really really made my birthday but that was it was low-key it's one of those birthdays man where it's not a big one like in terms of like nothing changes it's smack in the middle of the week

there's a lot going on it's a busy time of year for work but it was great so i really appreciate that um and i yeah i try to stay out of everyone's way as i often do well you're present here from everybody is uh we get to put you to work and we get to have one year on this podcast and try to fix the new orleans saints but truly happy belated birthday my friend i hope that everybody gets in on it as well and wishes you a happy birthday and a phenomenal year i know we're gonna have a phenomenal year here on this podcast so let's talk about how we got saints like roll out a cake for me and i look down at it and it's a salary cap hell and they smack me in the face with it wait have you seen uh i don't

know why this made me think of this have you seen the pope's tweets oh my god the pope is going off about the saints the pope is like talking about the the saints but obviously the pope is this is the real pope we're talking about like the actual pope here is online tweeting from the hip pope francis what was this uh two days ago he said the saints sorry sorry the hashtag saints yes with the logo and the logo logo comes up because the nfl has to deal with twitter where anytime you hashtag saints the logo comes up so it says the saints are precious pearls and are always living and relevant because they provide a fascinating commentary on the gospel. And it's just hilarious. And you've got the actual New Orleans Saints team quote tweeting it.

And they're just like, thank you, Pope. We needed this. And then a couple of days later, he said, we cannot become hashtag Saints with a frown. We must have joyful hearts and remain open to hope. And you know what? That is just truly how we have to usher in what we're going to talk about here on Gentry Franchise.

You think the Pope actually tweets? He's 87. Most people that are this famous, I mean, he's 18.4 million followers. By the way, the Pope account, like just 10 out of 10. Like the location, Vatican City, you'd almost think it's a fake account. And then you realize it's got 18.4 million followers. Then you see the NFL logo for Saints in it. Like I was kind of just waiting for like a hashtag keep pounding somewhere or one pride like giants fried or hashtag take flight

his header photo actually fascinates me and why you can confuse this account as a parody account it's a lot of people of younger age in an audience excited to see him and it's only the back of his head but his hand is on his ear like hollywood hulk hogan hollywood pope hogan there you go i mean what is he what is he is he telling the like the young fans like yeah yeah like he's got like he's got his own entrance music too like what people don't realize is that at WrestleMania, The Rock's going to, for Cena's final match, because John Cena's final match is coming up, it's going to be a winner-take-all for the Universal title,

Cena versus The Pope. People don't realize that. Special guest referee. Who is the special guest? There's so many good options for special guest referee. I mean, it would just have to be Shawn Michaels, because I feel like it's always Shawn Michaels when it comes to the special to the pope's entrance music hail mary by tupac wow wow yeah good pull good all right before we get more sacrilegious here on this show let's get into the new orleans

saints specifically not the saints that the pope's referencing although maybe it is who knows maybe he's a big saints fan new orleans saints are 2-7 here on the season. They're tied for the worst record in the NFL. They started the year 2-0 at Connor. Boy, did it look great. Obviously, a disappointing year for them in 2023. They bring in Derek Carr. They've still got Dennis Allen. They still have Pete Carmichael as their offense coordinator,

longtime offense coordinator. And the thought was, at least on Vegas' side of things, that they were the favorites to win the division. It's close towards the end. The Buccaneers end up winning the division. The Saints finish one game above 500 and they miss out on the playoffs. And that was disappointing, I think, for Derek Carr getting there because we watched the Saints, and this is sort of bouncing around a little bit, we watched the Saints continue to kick the can down the road with this veteran roster after Breeze retired. And we went, what are they doing

this for? You know, it wasn't Andy Dalton. It wasn't James Winston. Like what do you do? Why are you continuing to do this to your franchise? Why are you lying to yourself about where you actually are? You had your winning window with Drew Breeze. And when they brought in Derek Carr, you go, okay, I guess the rest of the roster is there. You've kept it afloat to be able to go get a guy who has been inconsistent, but at least has shown flashes of high-end quarterback play at the NFL level in Derek Carr. And you thought that that was going to be the answer. So it wasn't quite last year, but going into this year, it's like, all right, well, maybe there's still some hope here. You're bringing Clint Kubiak. You change things around on the

offensive side of things. They start off 2-0. They absolutely obliterate the Carolina Panthers. They obliterate the Dallas Cowboys. Then the injury bug started to hit them a little bit, and it went off the rails. They have lost seven games in a row. They're currently picking, if the draft were this weekend, number three overall with a low strength of schedule and tied for the worst record in the league.

Before we sort of get into the lore of truly the backstory of how we got here in this situation, where the roster is, where the cap space is, Connor, your thoughts on sort of the Saints last year and this year at this point in time. I want to be fair to the Saints this year, because while I have not agreed with their doubling and tripling and quadrupling down strategy over the years, and I've made it known on this podcast, I am far from a Derek Carr fan.

So I did not particularly like that move, which kind of resurged, give a resurgence to this doubling and tripling down. The Saints have had a lot of bad luck this year. And the Saints today and the last month or so are a much different team that came out of the gate really hot. Now that's football. Injuries can change your season at any moment. They were a team that I thought Rashid Shahid's speed really, really opened up their offense. And he developed into a guy that was a fun special

player. And then he developed into a legit wide receiver too, that could stretch the field, open up your run game, create more space on the field. I thought their offensive coordinator and Clint Kubiak was doing a lot of good things to keep Derek Carr at a traditional dropbacks, which protect their leaky offensive line. They obviously use a lot of motion and then guys get banged up. They lose Shahid for the season. Kamara has even quietly during a presser say he had a broken hand. He's been playing through.

Alave with a really scary concussion and Alave was having a tough season before that. Carr, up and down player in general also gets hurt. They want to see what they have in Spencer Rattler. That kind of blows up in their face. So I think the Saints have had as much bad luck as possible. They've been a little bit of

a murphy's law season but maybe trevor they needed that in the worst way rather than winning say they stay you know relatively healthy and say they go eight and nine and then they're on this mold of like we don't really they came into this year, nobody thought Dennis Allen was the right head coach of this team. So you're kind of just riding that out longer than you should have. They don't, you don't really think that Derek Carr is going to make you a legitimate threat

in the NFC. Are you going to be up there with the Lions, what the Niners were supposed to be, the Packers, now the Commanders, who are headlined by a big quarterback. Are you going to be up there with those teams, with Derek and a not so great offensive line no you're not so maybe things just completely going off the reserve like just falling off a cliff was in a weird way the

best thing now for the Saints because it kind of feels like they can truly press the nukes button here and go you know what like we're gonna get a ton of picks which they've started to do we're gonna finally trend backwards to getting our salary in a normal state of affairs and we're gonna have this slate be so clean with assets that you know what we'll see what happens at the front office but at a minimum we're gonna get a little bit more creative on the coaching staff, I think as well. So long way of saying like, maybe this is the best thing to happen as much as it really sucks right now for Saints fans. I think there's a couple of ways that you could

look at this in terms of winning a Super Bowl. I think that this is the best thing for them because it allows them to truly hard reset their team. And we've talked about this before here on this podcast. The worst thing that you could be is in the middle. You either want to be pedal to the metal. You believe that you can win a Super Bowl. You have the quarterback, you have the contracts, you have the roster, you have the coaching staff to be able to do it, or you want to be bad. You want to have high draft picks. You want to be able to draft the franchise quarterback. You want to be able to build the roster through the draft. It's one of those two things. And, you know, the NFL operates a little bit differently.

You know, it's easier to say that on this side of things, but the NFL, it's, it's billions of dollars of, of operations. And so you're obviously trying to win as many games as possible. These guys want to stay employed. They don't want to get fired. So obviously the practical aspects of that, it doesn't always work out in that way. But I would say that the only place that I would really push back on sort of what you said there, because I agree with almost everything, is the way that they played in those first two games does have to intrigue you. Now, they were playing Carolina and Dallas, two of the worst teams in the NFL. Yeah. But they kicked the crap out of them.

Yeah, they did. So, in my opinion, if you sort of go off with what you said, if the injury luck, if the bad luck, if that just doesn't bite them as hard as it has this year, if Murphy's Law doesn't just absolutely smack them in the face, maybe they do go 10-7. Maybe. Maybe they do win this division. But then at that point, I go back to what I said originally.

Is that enough? Is you making the playoffs and winning one playoff game, like is this roster going to be better next year? The answer is no. Not like when it comes to being competitive and going for a Super Bowl. I mean, we're going to get into this exercise in like 45 minutes, but in order for you to just be cap compliant, this is basically the roster. You do not really have flexibility and you would truly have to nail it in the draft to be a much different roster with a much better chance at a Super Bowl the following year. So ultimately, if your goal is to make the playoffs, I could have told you that that was possible with this team given how they came out of the gate. But to win a Super Bowl? No. I don't think that the current path that this team was on was going to win you

a Super Bowl this year, next year, the year after that. I don't think that it was going to come until you fully rebuilt this football team. And so to your point there, I agree with you. That is a blessing in disguise, right? Where it accelerates maybe what you would want to do or what you have been putting off for the last four years. And that is totally reset this team. So I think that that would be the way that I would sort of just respond to that. And if you didn't have anything that you wanted to kind of add to that, I can talk about sort of the Sean Payton, Drew Brees years and then how we got here. Okay. Yeah, let's do the how we got here for sure. So Sean Payton and Drew Brees come into this organization in 2006. Sean Payton, Drew Brees years, and then how we got here. Okay, let's do the how we got here for sure. So Sean Payton and Drew Brees come into this organization in 2006.

Sean Payton comes over as the head coach. They're able to sign Drew Brees in free agency. And what was born at that point in time is just one of the best, most well-run offenses, like a dynasty of offense that we had seen that we have not really seen very often in the NFL when it comes to top tier play and longevity. Of course, they won a Super Bowl in 2009, offense that we have not really seen very often in the NFL when it comes to top-tier play and longevity. Of course, they won a Super Bowl in 2009,

but this team was fantastic even outside of that Super Bowl year. They were threatening to win a Super Bowl at multiple points throughout Sean Payton's long tenure with this team. They had a top-15 offense in the NFL every single year that Payton was the head coach coach other than that 2021 season, which was the first season that he did not have Drew Brees after Drew Brees retired. And they were a top 10 offense in the NFL in all but three of his seasons since 2006. They were, in fact, a top three offense and even the number one offense at certain points in time. That run that they had was phenomenal. And I think to really understand how we got here,

we have to talk about the stretch of 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020, where this team won double-digit games for four straight seasons with four straight NFC South championships. The 2017 season, I think was a really good year for them. Obviously it was, it was, it was great. They made the wild card. They had a monster draft after that. I mean, the 2017 NFL draft for the New Orleans Saints is legendary. Marshawn Lattimore in the first round, Ryan Ramchick in the first round, Marcus Williams in the second round, Alvin Kamara in the third, Alex Anzalone in the third,

Trey Hendrickson in the third. That's nuts, Connor. That's insane. That is high-profile NFL talent and franchise-defining talent for almost six straight picks there. So you have the 2017 success, and then you have the 2017 draft class and then

you have some free agents that you've added as well that 2018 team was the best team that they had and they were one i'll say it horribly missed defensive pass interference called away from potentially going to the super bowl because it was it wasn't a guarantee that they were going to get to the super bowl in that game even if they call the flag but it obviously helps them in their favor because they probably don't go to overtime. Or even if they do go to overtime, maybe the ball bounces a different way. So it's not a guarantee, but it was an egregious missed call. They believed that they were one missed call away from the Super Bowl in 2018. So, of course, Connor, you're not going to blow it up after that.

You're going to continue to go all in. 2019, okay, they lose the Vikings in the wildcard round. 2020, that's Drew Brees' last year. Now, all all of a sudden the drop-off's been heavy for drew brees that should have been the signal so sean payton sticks around okay like it doesn't really work out after that 2021 not a great year i think they finished nine and eight sean payton retires that's the moment this is your signal this. This is your sign. Giant flashing neon lights. So much that you're getting a seizure. Rebuild the team.

That was your winning window. Those are the four slash maybe squeeze in five years that you could have maybe convinced yourself that you were going to win a Super Bowl. But that did not happen. And then they continued to, I mean, the Taysom Hill contract, the Cesar Ruiz contract, the Marcus May contract. It's like, what are you guys doing?

You don't even have the quarterback to get it done. They thought that they could replace Drew Brees with Andy Dalton and, like I said, Jameis Winston. And it just, that, Connor, is where I think they really got themselves into some trouble. And it's not totally unescapable trouble. But over the next two years, they got to eat a lot of their vegetables I think and really uh step back from the cap but that is sort of how I get us to this place to the New Orleans Saints but anything to add I would love to hear it of kind

of how we got here well two things I'll get to all of that in a second what's even crazier is that 2017 draft the last pick of it in the sixth round was Al-Quddin Muhammad, the defensive end out of Miami. Sixth round pick, pick 196. He's still in the league. Yeah, yeah. I should have shouted him out. That's a good shout out by you. I mean, just the fact that their throwaway sixth round pick

has had a very long NFL career. I mean, when you've played in the NFL for what, near eight years, that's wildly impressive. So it just goes to show you like they could have thrown any dart at the board in that draft and they were going to hit on on players. You nailed it, though. I mean, the Saints fell into the trap, and I don't entirely blame them for this, but I think they looked at their situation and went, we're an organization, maybe like the Steelers, like Baltimore. I think New England might be learning the hard way a little bit about this right now, that the household names have moved on. Like Drew Brees retired. Sean Payton has retired. And everybody knew he was coming back. But Sean Payton leaving also was kind of a signal.

Sean Payton knew they had kind of wrung that rag out. Right. Completely dry. That was a big tell. But they looked around at it and said, no, we're going to keep a lot of his staff and keep some of the nucleus of this team and find different ways to just keep trying.

I think part of it was they looked at the NFC and said, we don't think the NFC is overly strong, so why should we back down? It's fair. Which is very fair. It wasn't. But on the flip side, it just goes to show you in the NFL, and this is why i bring the patriots

into this a little bit it's different but it's not when you don't have that legendary quarterback everything becomes so much harder because they set the tone of who you are as a franchise and the patriots kept things going with bill after tom left and it honestly just cost them more time. Like Bill made a lot of bad choices as a roster manager and they went nowhere with the options they tried after Tom. And now they have hired a, a, you know, a Belichick guy in Mayo in a way. And I like Drake may a lot and they're going to get it right eventually, but I'm not a big believer in Mayo. This happens to teams sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. The Steelers with Tomlin. The Ravens have done this over many different years.

But to be fair, the Steelers had Big Ben. The Ravens transitioned from Super Bowl winner Joe Flacco to multi-time MVP Lamar Jackson. So the Saints didn't look at it that way. And to be fair, maybe the Saints didn't feel like they didn't have the avenue to go get that level of quarterback prospects, so they went with guys viewed as mid-tier options. But I think they've finally come full circle where those days are over.

Yeah, I think it was a perfect storm of a lot of stuff, of maybe why they continued to kick that can down the road. But like I said, you've got the Ruiz extension, the Taysom Hill extension, the Marcus May extension. I mean, these are moves where it's like, man, those were players that you probably should have said to yourself, let's see what our team is like without these guys. Yeah. And they didn't. And again, Dennis Allen getting his chance as head coach um after being a long time assistant

to sean payton i mean it's it's not like dennis allen is going to sit here and say like yeah cut all my good players you know i and and you know right for michael obviously the same way so it's uh it's it's so much easier on this side of things and i want to make sure that we're transparent about that to say well why didn't you just tank there's jobs on the line there's livelihoods on the line there's there's future resumes and all this kinds of stuff. But even with all that said, one of the most important aspects of running a franchise is self-scouting. You've got to be able to look in the mirror. You have to understand where you are in a winning window. And like I said, the healthiest organizations, in my opinion, aren't the ones that are selling out to be just a little bit better than 500 every single year.

It's the ones that very clearly understand when they have a winning window in front of them and when they don't. And again, billions of dollars, hundreds of millions of dollars from the owners. Nobody likes to spend hundreds of millions of dollars from the owners. Nobody likes to spend hundreds of millions of dollars and just goes, yep, we're bad. I understand it. I've never done it personally myself. If anybody would like to endorse me or sponsor me, we can figure out how I feel after I spend a hundred million dollars and I'm tanking a franchise. But that is sort of what you need to do. And it didn't feel like the saints were willing to do that until uh until this point in time let's get into a little bit of of um i think the draft is probably because well we'll do head coaches next let's get into head coaches before we get to that though

best part about football season guys it's always checking out the post game stats new orleans saints they had a crap ton of post game stats when they were going through that run in 2017 to 2020 when breeze is still there which wideout scored more than two touchdowns? Probably Michael Thomas. Which quarterback threw for more than 350 yards? Probably Drew Breeze every single week. If you think that you know what's going to happen before kickoff, you got to play Pick 6 by DraftKings, an official daily fantasy partner of the NFL. Download the DraftKings Pick 6 app. Now select between two to six players and choose if they will have more or less than a single stat. It is that simple. For all the first-time Pick six players, you check this out.

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Help us available for problems with gambling. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org in connecticut must be 18 plus agent eligibility varies by jurisdiction pick six is not available everywhere including new york and ontario void were prohibited one per new customer non-retrievable pick six credits expire in six months limited time offer see terms at pick six dot draftkings.com slash promos so for coach, you and I were chatting a little bit before the show began. We weren't doing the show before the show, promise. We certainly weren't planning the show before the show. We could never do that. But it is interesting here with this coaching

staff because Dennis Allen's now out. Pete Carmichael was the offensive coordinator of this team from 2009 to 2023. I mean, long-time offensive coordinator. So Clint Kubiak comes in this year to sort of shake things up, and it looked really good through those first two games. But now it's like, all right, well, how much are we taking away from that, really? Dennis Allen's gone. The Rizzler himself, Darren Rizzi, the special teams coordinator for this team, is now the interim head coach.

I mean, what do we think for – I don't think the Rizzler's going to get the head coaching candidacy uh even though you know he could go in there and work his magic in the interview who knows but uh let's hold down the fort i agree i also don't think this is this is a job for any head coach right i don't i don't think that we could just list off exactly the same names that we have before some similar but the Saints situation is different knowing that you are looking down the barrel of a multi-year rebuild. And Connor, you brought up New England. I think that's a great thing to bring up. Gerard Mayo gets elevated to the head coaching spot. And there's other factors that go into this, but like people were talking about canning him after this year. Guys, you were going to suck this year. That roster's bad.

Now, if he's showing you signs of not being a great head coach behind the scenes, okay, that's different. But to ask a head coach to sign up for a multi-year rebuild, knowing how impatient this league is, it's not for everybody. So do you have any head coach candidates that you

love for this situation? This is one thing we did talk about a little bit where I just feel like this isn't a scenario that the Saints are going to look for a veteran guy that is looking to win pretty early on. This feels like a total, almost in a way, when the Panthers hired Canales, you knew it wasn't always going to be pretty this year. And it's been a tough go of it for the Panthers all around. But when they made that hire, the thought was, we're going to get an offensive guy in here. We want to staple him to our young quarterback. And we're really going to try to get this roster right over the next couple years the saints after the the disaster that dennis allen has been they screamed to me most likely young offensive mind now i am intrigued

by todd munkin in this in this area because munkin is not a guy that's been a head coach in the nfl so it is giving a guy that there's something different about your first shot, right? Whether it's the energy, whether it's, you know, having new ideas, getting that first chance. So Munkin is the outlier here and he's an offensive mind. Make no mistake about it. That would be with the goal of we're drafting and developing a quarterback and trying to develop an offense.

Now, when you look on the other side like i was pointing out this is not a spot for vrabel or belichick i don't think so either i think so i think some people in the comments might be like why wouldn't you want an experienced guy to usher in the rebuild i just i don't think any of them are going to sign up for this no vrabel to me after how things ended in tennessee i'll make this clearly he goes, I think he wants the keys to the car. Yeah, that's a good point. We'll use Vrabel for the teams where the slate can be really wiped clean. He might be, you know, they might have a GM where he goes.

They might hire a GM, but Vrabel might have control of the roster. There's a big difference, folks. That's why when you talk about, like, the Jets and Giants, there's a chance that those slates are wide open. But when you look at, you know, the Saints are a perfect example right now. As it stands, it just feels like not the spot for Vrabel, not the spot for a Belichick.

But we were looking at really young names for this. We say this every show, but it's good to clarify because we understand a lot of people listening to this show might not listen to our podcast. You're here because for the first time, because you're a Saints fan or whatever it may be. Ben Johnson is just a hard guy to figure out. Ben Johnson has turned down better opportunities than this. He could have been coaching Jaden Daniels right now in Washington, and he chose not to.

So just saying Ben Johnson makes Ben Johnson does make a lot of sense for this job. Offensive, creative guy that when you draft a quarterback, you could staple him to the hip of him, but we just don't know how to react to Ben Johnson. Joe Brady has worked for this franchise before. If teams think Joe Brady is worthy of head coaching interviews, this wouldn't be a shock. If this is a place that interview to Joe Brady. I'm personally out on Bobby Sloic being a head coach this off season. I think he's had a really tough year with the Texans. The Texans are fine record wise, but if you watch the structure of their offense, there's a lot of issues right now. So that's the personality and type of person I'm thinking here, Trevor. It can be a little difficult to just dive

into endless names. But I do think that's the style of coach that the Saints will kind of tunnel vision their search on. I also agree with you. I think that this is a young man's game, if you will. I think this is going to attract a younger coordinator, but I would open it up to either side of the ball. I don't think they're franchise quarterbacks on the roster. Although when we get to how we do our draft strategy, I'm not, I'm not opposed to letting Rattler like ride out this season, you know,

with, with the saints picking number three overall in the draft right now, we don't know where they're going to end up. I don't think it's a guarantee that this team takes a quarterback. I think that there's, we're going to get it. We'll get into the Derek Carr conversation because it's a guarantee that this team takes a quarterback. I think that there's, we're going to get it. We'll get into the Derek Carr conversation because there's a lot of layers there and we'll give you a plan on kind of what we think and how we might handle this situation. But I don't think it necessarily has to be an offensive guy. I think everybody in the NFL

loves to get that next great offensive play caller or just offensive mind. There's a couple that come to mind. I don't hate Todd Munkin as a suggestion for this team. I just don't think he'd do it, you know, because of the way that we set it up, where you mentioned you only get maybe one crack at this to be a head coach in the NFL. I just don't know if Munkin throughout his whole journey of college and NFL football, if he's going to be willing to sign up for what the Saints are going to be over the next couple of years.

So would love him for the team. I don't know if he'll, I don't, I don't know if he'll do it. Liam Cohen from Tampa Bay is a great call out. I think that would be a really good player a reality exists where the Bucs let him leave and keep Todd Bowles as head coach at this point in time. That's a bad process if they do. Although I think, and I don't think Tampa would do it. I think if it's marginally there at all whatsoever, I think that they would rather promote Liam

Cohen than watch him go to their rival team in New Orleans. So I would love him as a fit. I don't know if that's realistic. Joe Brady, very interesting. Certainly him sort of coming home, if you will, back to New Orleans. I do like that one. Adam Stenevich, who is the offensive coordinator

for the Green Bay Packers, I think is very interesting. Doesn't call plays because Malaflor calls the plays, but he was the offensive line coach for the Packers for a couple years from everything that I've read they love him in that organization they've had no problem elevating him to offensive coordinator and run game coordinator and basically giving him as much power as they can outside of calling plays and taking that away from the head coach and MalafFleur. So it seems like he is on the up. That is somebody who maybe could be interested.

He's got a trenches background. You could say to yourself, we're going to build that as the health of our team moving forward. And he's a guy who knows how to do it. And then the final name I'll throw out there is Jesse Minter, the defensive coordinator for the Los Angeles Chargers, who is the defensive coordinator for two years under Jim Harbaugh at Michigan, certainly when they went on the college football playoff run

and lost, and then when they went on their national championship run. Now he brings Jesse Minter over. He's currently the defensive coordinator for his team again, now in the NFL, and they have the number one defense in the NFL. Like, it's just very clearly, I don't think, for as good as I think Jim Harbaugh clearly, I don't think for as good as I think Jim

Harbaugh is, I don't think that's all Jim Harbaugh. I think that it's a lot of Jesse Minter as well. And from the way that they coach the defensive side of the ball at Michigan to the rise of them winning that national championship. And then what we are seeing from the chargers this year, that tells me he's a damn good coach. And I think first and foremost, that is going to be what's really important because here's another thing, Connor, I think first and foremost, that is going to be what's really important because here's another thing, Connor, not to spoil sort of how we're going to talk about our free agency and our roster plan,

but you're going to play a lot of rookies over the next two years. You're going to play a lot of young guys over the next two years. If you don't have a good football coach, this team's going to be dog shit. They're going to be bad. And that I think also,

not that you want to like short-term vision this, but I throw Jesse Minter in there because I think that he would be a really strong candidate for this football team. I love that you brought up Minter's name because I love his background, right? This is somebody that has lived on the defensive side of the football

for the last 20 years. I mean, defensive intern at Notre Dame in 2006. But what intrigues me is almost a half decade with the Baltimore Ravens organization, working as a defensive assistant coach on their staff. And then you're in Michigan, you know, obviously with Harbaugh for two years. And then he takes you. It says a lot when he takes you to the NFL with him and the job they've done with the defense that has been turned around

largely schematically, in my opinion, with the Chargers. It's not like the Chargers went out there and drafted like five new key studs and are just magically, and signed all these huge free agents and they're so much better the chargers have made a lot of internal corrections and fixes as a football organization on the defensive side of the ball so if they are going to get away from the offensive approach minter has the credentials that warrant consideration because maybe he can adopt some of that hardball ball style that you are going to be the physically toughest team on the field each week. We're going to learn how to run the ball.

And yes, we are going to draft a quarterback, but our expectations for that quarterback to be our hero aren't going to be in the first two years of his career. So it kind of sounds like if you had a choice, Munkin would be your guy? Yes. I like Munkin for this job a lot. I think Munkin's

energy would be phenomenal for this team. I believe in him developing their next quarterback, especially if that quarterback is just dropped into an offense with Chris Alave, get healthy soon, and Rashid Shahid, get healthy soon. Yeah. Okay. So, you'll go with Munkin.

Obviously, I'm not in the room interviewing, so a lot of things go into this, but I'll go with Munkin. Obviously, I'm not in the room interviewing, so a lot of things go into this, but I would go with Jesse Minter because I don't think Liam Cohen's going to be an option. So I feel like there have been times when we've done fixture franchises where we haven't made decisions every time we've gone through these little things.

So you're going with Munkin. I'll go with Jesse Minter. Those are our two submissions that were given there. I do want to give someone a shout out and his name will come up on many future Fix Your Franchises and he at least deserves a shout out here because

he coached for this organization for half a decade. Aaron Glenn is going to be an interesting guy this offseason. Aaron Glenn is going to be a really interesting guy this offseason. He's the defensive coordinator for the Lions the Lions especially up front and on the back end the lines are really good defense there's no way around it the Lions are uh Aaron Glenn's time is coming he's 52 years

old he played in the NFL for a long freaking time man for a cornerback to play in the NFL for 14, 15 years is absolutely insane. He's been a coach in this league for another 10 years. He's been the Lions defensive coordinator now for three or four years. He was the Saints DBs coach for five years. Like Aaron Glenn deserves a shout out here for a guy that they should at least interview and see not only what you've learned being on Dan Campbell's staff, but how he's grown as a coach over time because he was an impressive NFL player that his NFL coaching career is starting to try to match that now. Yeah.

Man, I can't remember if Glenn. He is somebody who I just wonder if he is going to be a victim of people giving Dan Campbell, I don't want to say too much credit. That's not the right word, but giving all the credit to Dan Campbell, because Glenn has interviewed for a head coaching spot in each of the last four seasons.

He had three or four last year, if I remember correctly. And so at this point in time, he's interviewed with a lot of teams and he hasn't landed a head coach yet. Now that's not to to say that you can't still do it. Obviously, Dan Quinn is somebody who took a lot of interviews and now he finds the right spot and then he ends up going to Washington. So not that it's impossible. I just wonder if we're getting to the point where is Dan Campbell just from the league's perspective, the one that's getting all the credit for what's going on in the defense side of the football for the lions. But I do think it's a good shout out, regardless of whether or not that's the case. Glenn, certainly being a former player,

a good coach, a guy who knows how to get it done. And again, when you are, when you are going through what the next two years are probably going to be for the new Orleans saints, for you to have that player background in your resume, as you address the media. And as you address the media and as you address

the fans and and try to make sure that they they understand that you have this ship going in the right direction like having that background relating to the young players instilling some of that wisdom that is an important thing that goes into being a really good coach so i think it's a good shout out with aaron. Well, and you also wonder, you know, everybody's like, who can get Ben Johnson? Who can get Ben Johnson? Well, can Aaron Glenn get one of the guys working under Ben Johnson? And maybe he surprises us.

These are the things that I would just, I'd want to speak to him to know what his plan is. We didn't mention Clint Kubiak, you know, two games in, Kubiak looked like he was the next hotshot coordinator to get a head coaching job. Obviously, I think that he will be considered at this position. We'd be remiss if we moved on without mentioning Kubiak. I just don't know if there's going to be enough there. Maybe he has sort of disassociated himself enough with Carr

or this current regime to be like, no, no, no, no. If you hire me as the head coach, I will be able to usher in something new. I wasn't with the coaching staff when they were here during the Sean Payton area. I am new enough to where it is as if not only am I a new face, but I just simply have a head start. I already know a lot of the guys on the roster. Maybe that is the case with Kubiak, but I'd still go with Jesse Minter. You would go with Todd Munkin, but those are the candidates that we have. We would love to hear from you guys on who you might want or who you think is a good

spot or a good coach for this team in the current spot that they are in. This show is sponsored by our friends over at BetterHelp. Think of a time recently when you felt like you couldn't be your full self halloween october you know this time of year the costumes the mass all that good stuff it's always fun for those holidays but it's not as fun when you feel like you gotta wear a mask you gotta wear a costume in social settings around your friends around your family at work all that kind of stuff when you just feel like you can't be genuine therapy can help you learn to accept all parts of yourself so you can take off the costume, you can take off the mask in those situations where you don't want to be wearing it. I've been doing therapy for over a year and a half, and in a lot of ways, it has helped me just like that.

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enough talking see some action what are we going to do with this team who we keeping who we building around and what the hell are we going to do what in the world are we going to do about a salary cap situation that as of right now their projected salary cap effective salary cap i should say which takes into account uh getting to a 53-man roster and their rookie draft class. Negative $73 million in the red. That is not odd. It's hard to do. Before we get into sort of like some of the players on the roster, because this is going to be a little bit different of a situation

than the fixture franchises we've done already, because simply put, Connor, we're not trying to save money or be like, ooh, how do we bring somebody new in? This is simply about becoming cap compliant and getting you to a spot where you can actually move forward in the draft. And you are going to have to draft for the core of your team, specifically over the next two years. And I think when we talk about this roster, we got to start with how they have drafted. I think really eight years ago is where we got to begin.

The 2016 NFL draft for them was good. It was Sheldon Rankins. It was Michael Thomas. It was Vaughn Bell. It was David Onyemata. Really good football players there. That was their 2016 class. A smaller class, but it was great. You have that 17 class, which I mentioned, Lattimore, Ramchick, Williams, Kamara, Anzalone, Hendrickson, Muhammad.

One of the best, highest hit rate draft classes you are ever going to see in your life. So they nailed it in those two draft classes. And then they absolutely regressed probably further from the mean into that. Now, okay. Not great category, 2018 Marcus Davenport, Trey Kwan Smith, Rick Leonard,

nature, Jamerson, Camille Moore, Boston, Scott will clap. I mean, that's basically a zero, especially with how hurt Marshawn or Marcus Davenport was.

You're hitting zero guys that are still contributing to your team. That's a zero. I had to make sure Rick Leonard was a real human. That's a fake name. When I saw a fourth round pick, Rick Leonard, I'm like, man, I was doing the draft in 2018.

I don't remember Rick Leonard and he was the 127th overall pick in the draft. No recollection of Rick Leonard at all. You don't remember Pickle Rick? Now I do. All right, so 2019. There was some good in 2019. So we're getting a donut.

Zero from 2018. Not a contributing draft class for you at all. 2019, you get Eric McCoy, stud, and C.J. Gardner-John johnson who i get it he's bounced around a little bit but like cj's good good player absolutely nuts good player cj's good football player gator great by the way yes of course you get those two guys in that class it's it's saquon hampton elise mac kate and ellis after that which kate and ellis is still in the league but seven round pick i mean i don't know i don't know if there's ellis there's ellis is running around

everywhere it's amazing. Would I call that a hit from them? How many years was he in New Orleans? He was in New Orleans for four years. He started his fourth year. Damn, he had seven sacks in 2022? All right, maybe. Maybe.

Two and a half? Two and a half, maybe, with Caden Ellis? Yeah, well, he's a seventh-round pick, so the bar of being a hit is so low that the answer is yes. So the 2019 draft, all right, not so bad, especially because it was only a— No, but here's the problem. It is bad because they never have picks.

Well— Okay, so yeah, turn the page. Now we're getting to the real issue. So 2020, I think it's— 2020 is a zero because Zach Bonds now a stud for you on another team. Alex Troutman is now on the Broncos. Cesar Ruiz is not good and you extended him. Sorry.

So I am I'm going to be harsh on the 2020 class. I really am. 2021. I do remember Tommy Stevens. That is true. I remember Tommy Stevens very well because the thing with Tommy Stevens was that like he could almost do Taysom Hill things was the sell. Okay, did you know that Tommy Stevens is the highest graded quarterback that we have in PFF in the CFL? I knew he's been tearing it up.

I did not know highest graded. Highest graded because his rushing grade is like a 99.7. Right. Because of how often he converts a first down. He has nine rushing touchdowns in 2022 in the CFL. Yeah, that was the whole sell with Tommy Stevens. Like, oh, you could do running quarterback packages with him. 2021, Peyton Turner with the first round.

Then you get Pete Warner, Paulson, and Debo. Okay, I like those. 2022, you get Chris Olabe. Great. You get Elante Taylor. Great. Trevor Pen I like those. 2022, you get Chris Olabe. Great. You get Elante Taylor. Great. Trevor Penning. Bad.

Terrible trade. Horrible trade. And that's the problem. That's when we now get into what the Saints curl. You traded up for Trevor Penning, which is bad. You didn't have a first-round pick the following year because of it, and then you had to trade Sean Payton. So your first-round pick that year was a Sean Payton trade

just to have a first-round pick back. And you took brian brucey who has not been good for you isaiah foskey okay kendra miller always hurt nick saldo very backup offensive lineman jay kaner might be the savior who knows and then we have in 2024 i like felice fuanga i like julie mckinstry and then it's day three picks after that sp Spencer Rattler, maybe he's a starting quarterback for you next year. We'll see. But after those two legendary draft classes, it was not successful enough in the number of picks you had and the hit rate specifically, I think, with your first and second round picks

to actually supplement the kicking the can down the road. The kicking the can thing, people think that it's just the salary cap. No, no, no. You were giving up a lot of draft picks as well. You were giving up on the meat and cheese of your team. You got to build through the draft, man. And they missed on Peyton Turner. They missed on Marcus Davenport. I know he was hurt, so it's hard to be too harsh on that one. But they missed on Marcus Davenport I know he was hurt so it's hard to be too harsh on that one but they missed on Trevor Penning they it looks like Brian Brzee is not going to be worth a first round pick I hope that he is I'm not giving up on him but the hit rate's got to be a lot higher with those guys in the first round and not only have they not had a lot of picks they haven't hit when it matters most and that's also how we got into this place with the New Orleans Saints

it's a long road to get there. I mean, it's, yeah, there's no way around it. Like this is the perfect example of whatever one that created top heavy situations or they were attempting to making that being that aggressive for Trevor Penning was the, okay, we're going to surrender a ton of assets, a lot of future ones, but we think we have our left tackle of the future. And it goes to show you how much of a glass house the NFL draft could be because I don't want to make this a pile on Trevor Penning just because we didn't like him.

And there's been plenty of players that we didn't like that do work out at the NFL. Obviously, the Saints really liked him, and we're probably like, well, we're going to do this because we think this guy's a franchise left tackle. And then when you get kind of punched in the mouth by the volatility of the NFL draft of a player not working out in the short term or long term, you're like, oh, my God, we lost all these draft assets and we missed on the player. And now we don't know how we're going to get out of this. So and that's that's a microcosm of the entire thing, in my opinion.

Well, I can tell you how we're going to get out of it. I mean, good Lord, playing accountant in the worst way. So I'm obviously not smart enough to be able to get the Saints out of this situation. You know, I'm not. So I had to, no, no, no, that's not true. You're wiser. Had a birthday. You're a year older.

You've got it all right there. That's true. We had to Had a birthday. You're a year older. You've got it all right there. That's true. We had to phone a friend. Good friend of the show, Brad Spielberger, who you've probably read so much of his work at PFF over the last couple of years. He's not with PFF anymore. He's out doing his own thing. Greener pastures, if you will.

I don't know if that's true, but independently, he's having fun doing some draft prospecting. Dude, Brad is deeper in the NFL draft bag than I am right now. I'm like 250 deep. And he's like, dude, you got to give me sleepers to watch. I was like, you got to give me sleepers to watch. You're like 400 guys deep in this draft class already. Well, he's not wasting his time like us idiots on Twitter and podcast.

He's having a good time on the agent side of things, scouting on that side of stuff. But Brad is a cap guru. So I called him and I was like, how do we fix this? And he's like, all right, we work through it. Let's work through it now. Let's get a plan together. Connor, I sent you sort of the numbers and the information. So feel free to jump in at any point in time. But I'm going to lay out for the people some of the notes that we have here and how we get out of this mess for the New Orleans Saints. The first thing that I'm going to say is really anticlimactic. And that is the fact that the Saints aren't really in danger of not being cap compliant. And a way that Brad actually kind of said it to me is,

you know, people look at the negative number, the big negative number, $73 million over the cap, and they freak out with the Saints. He's like, in reality, teams like the Eagles, they're kind of in the same spot. They're basically in the same spot as the cap. And they freak out with the Saints. He's like, in reality, teams like the Eagles, they're kind of in the same spot. They're basically in the same spot as the Saints. The difference is the Eagles, when they extend players, when they sign them to new contracts, they basically prorate restructures that they would do with them in the future. So the number doesn't look nearly as bad now because they've already essentially restructured and prorated signing bonuses

and they've really been able to stretch it out once that extension hits. The Saints, the only difference with the Saints is the Saints just sign regular contracts with these players. And then when the time comes, basically after every single season, they simply convert part

of their salary into a signing bonus, which then they can spread out over the life of the contract. You can go up to five years out. So in reality, the Saints aren't this like hellish team, but they still got to get out of it. There is still things that they have to do. And we'll tell you how they do it. Because the first thing that Brad told me is, you can't just cut players. He's like, cutting players doesn't even help this team enough.

You sort of have to get creative with it. The first thing that they're going to have to do is they're going to designate Cam Jordan or what we think is going to happen. This is our plan of how you could do it. They're going to designate Cam Jordan and Ryan Ramchick as post June 1 retirements. Now you're allowed to do that with two players. You can't designate post June 1 cuts beyond two. So it's not like you can look at, because, and people might be like, okay, well, what's the significance of that? When you get to June 1, it's a specific date in the summer where after June 1st, moves that you make, either restructuring or cutting or trading, you can spread out some of the dead cap hit that you have for those moves up to two years out once you get past June 1. If you do it before June 1, you can't accelerate it like that. You can't spread it out up to two years. You've got to take all of that accelerated dead cap right off the bat,

and that'll go right against your salary cap. So when you designate Cam Jordan and Ryan Ramchick as post-June 1 players, you save 11 mil right off the bat with Cam Jordan. And you save 18 mil with Ryan Ramchick, who we assume that Ryan Ramchick's probably going to retire. So you can sort of wait for that. Because remember, they did the same thing with Drew Brees. Drew Brees technically retired, told the world he was retiring in January. And then they don't actually put the transaction through until June 2nd, because then they can spread out his dead money over a couple of years. So right off

the bat, Connor, I think as much as it hurts, because those have been core players of your team, that's where you start. you start at negative 73 mil but if you designate cam jordan you save 11 boom now you're down to 62 and then after that it's ryan ramchick and that's 18 and math really quickly off the top of my head that's 44 so you're already down to from 73 to 44 with those two designations after june 1st but i know it's gonna be a tough pill to swallow for them, though, but I think that's where you've got to start. There's no choice.

This is exactly where the combo starts. Yeah, it stinks. It's the end of an era, but they need to get as big a number possible chunk out of that 72? 73. 73 number with the lowest amount of player because you got to feel the football team here like at the end of the day you got to find a way to field an entire football team so yeah that's those are the the no-brainer strategy with those two you know icons of the franchise so once we get there we go from 73 um down to 62 and then we go from 62 down to 44 so right now just as those guys

as post june 1 now we're already down at 44 this is the next tricky one where i think we can sort of have a little bit of a conversation you ever see in the n NBA how they do like salary dump trades? Oh yeah. It's a lot more popular in the NBA than it is in the NFL. Although the NFL, it feels like that has happened more recently. I think you got to do that with Derek Carr, right? So you're not going to be able to wait until post June 1. It would be ideal to do that. But if a team is going to play ball with you in any way, shape or form with Carr and his contract and any sort of compensation that you might get back for him or that you have to give to get him off your books, you've got to do it before June 1. So he is somebody who you don't have the luxury of designating him or waiting

to trade him until next summer. You got to make the move really once the offseason kind of turns around, probably once you hire your head coach. And that head coach would probably be under the assumption that Derek Carr is not going to be there anymore. I wonder if you've got to say to a team, we will give you Derek Carr a fourth and a seventh, and you kick us back a sixth, and you take Derek Carr. They're paying more of the draft picks, but you completely us back a sixth, and you take Derek Carr. They're paying

more of the draft picks, but you completely get to get Derek Carr off of your books, and you save, that is another 11 mil if you can trade him pre-June 1st. That would then take us from 44 down to 33 million right there. That is something that, how do you feel about a Derek Carr salary dump trade for this team? Do you think it's realistic? Do you think that's sort of like a price tag that you would go for for them? Because that clears another 11 mil

and it lets you move on from whatever the last two years has been completely. I mean, it'd be amazing, right? And it has to be under consideration when you look at this number, you look at the reality that I think, and this is what we're going to get to, and this is kind of laying the first brick down of it, might be best for this team to almost tank next year,

and not actively tank where they're just going to put out the worst roster on the field. Right. But we look at this as a team that maybe they don't have to draft a quarterback this year in a class that's not overly inspiring but they can build out a good roster around when that future quarterback's gonna be in town so like the point is trevor why keep twist yourself into a pretzel to get under this cap number keep car if you have to then you have to and some teams might not want their car or the cost might be high where you're like man we don't want to give up this cap number, keep Carr. If you have to, then you have to. And some teams might not want Derek Carr. Or the cost might be high where you're like,

man, we don't want to give up this kind of pick just to unload Carr. They did just get an extra third and an extra fourth. For Lattimore. Right. Yeah. So, but the point is, you don't want Carr leading you to mediocrity next year. Like, what if you win seven or eight games to Carr next year?

What does that do for you? Nothing. It sets you back. it sets you backwards so yeah unloading unloading car is pretty high on the priority list for me and i think you're in the ballpark of the estimated cost because i just the demand for car won't be that high this offseason but he is a mediocre quarterback that some team like for instance like what the Steelers did with Russ and Fields last year a team in that scenario where they feel like they just need a middle of the pack at best kind of quarterback to be competitive yeah and you might get an asset back and you might and and obviously like this conversation could go so many different ways because one we

could say to ourselves well who's gonna want Derek, like you just said, like he's a quarterback capable of winning games at the NFL level. Just why would you want him in this chief situation, in this Saints situation? Maybe there's another team that's a lot more complete that's sort of just quote unquote, a quarterback away that might be interested in making this type of move of a move I don't know at this point in time but maybe it's something where the Saints end up having to give a fourth for somebody to take Derek Carr because you're probably going to restructure a little bit of his deal whoever takes him on he's only 34 years old he's got a little bit of an out in his contract but his dead cap hit is pretty high or his salary cap hit is pretty high unless you sort of work things

around and extend him a little bit. Or is it something where, hey, this dude could win in the NFL. So you're going to get something back. Maybe you get a fifth round pick back for him. I really don't. I don't know what the answer is there, but I think that you've got to get Carr off the team in some way, shape, or form if you're truly going to move on. And if you're going to make these moves, then it really signals that you're going to move on. So if you move on from him, if you're able to trade him, let's just in our scenario say they are trading a fourth and a sixth along with Derek Carr to get like a fifth back or something. And somebody is taking on his contract. So they're saving 11 mil. So then they go from 44 over the cap, 44 mil over the cap. Now they're at 33 million over the cap.

Now here's what they have to do. Now this is really where Brad sort of told me about like, okay, this is how they actually make this happen. Basically any significant veteran at all whatsoever is getting restructured. And it's not a big deal. It can happen. But Eric McCoy, Alvin Kamara, which Alvin Kamara, I understand, signed a new deal, so it's probably close to what they would want, but they could still probably restructure it a little bit. Carl Granderson, Cesar Ruiz, he's still going to be on the team. So Cesar Ruiz,

Demario Davis, Pete Werner, and then maybe Taysom Hill and Tyron Matthew. Although like with Matthew's deal, there's not a lot of money that's super flexible there. If you just do Demario Davis, Eric McCoy, Carl Granderson, Cesar Ruiz, and Pete Werner, you save 25 mil. Brad went through that himself. And he came up with that number where it was like, okay, that is $25 million of saving next year. So then at that point, we are only $8 million over the cap. If you cut Kalen Saunders, you save two and a half mil. If you cut Farson Moreau, you save another two and a half mil. That's now you're at three now you get in a situation where basically all you need is one of tasem hill and tyron matthew to play a little bit of ball with you and you just move their contracts and money and boom there you go you're cap compliant by the time the new league year starts because that's another point to remember too folks it's not cap compliant by

week one of the 2025 nfl season no you have to get cap compliant on whatever it is, like March 4th. The first day of the new league year. Yes. Yes. All that to say. That's how we did it. That's how we did it. There we go. We got there and we are not doing free agency for the Saints.

Yes, they will fill out the roster with some minimum deals. But this is not a team that there's no reason to. We're not going out here and we're signing Chris Goblin or Buda Baker for this team. It's just stupidity. It's just stupidity. But we are doing a lot more draft picks than we usually do. We are doing a lot more draft picks.

So just to sort of recap, the Saints, they're $73 million over the cap right now. That includes the Marshawn Lattimore accelerated dead money that when you traded him, there was that dead money there. Although it is a little bit different. I think people are looking at it like, oh, that dead cap was going to be there anyways. So it was sort of a neutral move to trade him when they did, because that was sort of already built in into the effective cap space projections that we saw. So $73 million over the cap right now. You trade Derek Carr, we'll say as a salary dump type of a trade,

you save 11 mil. Cam Jordan, you release post June 1 designation. That's another 11 mil. Ryan Ramchick, probably gonna retire, but you retire after June 1. So that's 18 mil that you save on the cap you restructure basically any veteran that you possibly can here Eric McCoy Alvin Kamara Cesar Ruiz Demario Davis Tyron Matthew those kinds of guys and you can save up to 25 million

probably actually it's probably if ever if you do it with everybody it's probably up to like 28 29 million and then if you move on from Kalen Saunders and Foster Moreau, that's another $5 million. Boom, there you go. You're at the cap floor. You're positive by probably like $1 or $2 million there at that point. So I don't know. Saints will probably bring in some free agents just because nobody ever brings in nobody,

except for the Cowboys. But it's futile for us to project any of that. We did the work. We got you cap compliant. And all that to say, it's basically going to be those veterans and a lot of young guys. And they just straight up got to step up. Yeah.

And as part of that, that'll be fun for the Saints. A young roster. We've seen the Cardinals doing this at times over the last two years. You know, you got guys out there trying to get reps. You're trying to figure out who can give you something that you weren't expecting much from. You're trying to figure out what areas do we need to keep improving when we have more assets, including not only financials, but draft picks. And that's the beauty of a full-scale rebuild. And this one is overdue, but it's good that it's finally here and it's going to be done. I think it's going to be done the right way. By the way, I was going to say, hopefully I explained this a little bit when I started my

rant, but anytime, anything that anybody might know, but not might not know about contracts, not that I'm an expert, but when we say restructure, what you do is you convert their salary to a signing bonus and then you can just sort of spread it out. So I just want to make sure that if I can. Yeah, the money doesn't go away. Like, no, and I'm going to be dealing with issues, not this DEF CON 1 issue that we're dealing with for the next couple of years. I just, like, some people think that restructures are sort of like the same thing as extensions,

and it's not. You're just moving the money around. The guys just sort of get paid in signing bonus form instead of like, you you know game check form and it's a little bit different you know you convert in different kinds of bonuses and all that kinds of stuff well the best was for a while and i'm talking this is a long time ago this is on twitter about 10 years ago but you would see like i don't understandably people didn't understand restructures we've we have a lot more cap knowledge and information thanks to people

like brad and other people that have been online explaining this you'd see like a guy restructure and you'd see a fan quote tweet it like thank you so much cj mosley it's like man he's nothing to do with it doing shit for you they basically have no choice but i mean they're just getting the money sometimes and more lump sum and maybe it's the off season instead of also clear so they're cool with it they're cool with it all right so we're gonna get to a three round sorry four round mock draft for the new orleans saints we're gonna hit on some updated team needs now after what we did in free agency but before we get there there are some things the school didn't really teach you right

like how to handle the new orleans saints salary. You got to know how to plan for your financial future that leads to all sorts of success. And that includes for your kids. Fabric. It makes it so easy for you to set up an investment account for your children that grows with them and helps them prepare for their future. Fabric by Gerber Life, it was designed by parents for parents to make it easy to plan for that financial future and manage your family's financial path. With the kids investment account from Fabric, you can start investing in your child's future today. While your kids can't invest, while they are minors, a UGMA kids investment account allows you to invest on their behalf and it gives their investments more time

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All investing is subject to risk terms and apply. Learn more at meatfabric.com. provided by Apex Clearing Corporation. All investing is subject to risk terms and apply. Learn more at meetfabric.com. M-E-A-T Fabric is Tommy Stevens' nickname, of course, as he's killing it up at the CFL. Just can't get confused there. So I did want to hit team needs before we jumped into the mock draft because a lot of the veterans are still there. It's sort of the same, but we're doing this mock draft. At least I think we should do this mock draft because a lot of the veterans are still there it's sort of the same but we're doing this mock draft at least i think we should do this mock draft

the rat pack is back all right the rat pack is back jack spencer rattler starting quarterback of this team projected going into 2025 but you could certainly have quarterback as a need for them i think offensive tackle with ryan ramchick retiring trevor penning struggling i think offensive tackle is a need for them edge rusher no cam jordan uh isaiah foskey hasn't exactly broken out like i think edge rusher is a big time need for them corner maybe i mean well yeah obviously a spot has opened up well yeah actually yeah it has to be because uh adibo's hurt right and he's a free agent upcoming you just traded a lot of interesting one yeah corner corner definitely a need night to make sure to because Adibo's hurt. Right. And he's a free agent upcoming. You just traded Lavin.

Interesting one. Yeah, corner, corner, definitely a need. I need to make sure I throw that in there. And then... Tight end if we get rid of Foster Moreau? They got Juwan Johnson. Juwan Johnson's slander? He's been hurt. I mean, I didn't mean for it to be.

He's been hurt like all year. He had a serious off-season. This chase young too i forgot yeah i don't know why well i mean he's he's a free agent so they're not gonna have much longer why didn't they trade him i guess i guess it was just not you couldn't get i was gonna say i don't know honestly nobody probably wanted him i'm just being honest yeah i don't know i don't know it's been nobody probably wanted him. I'm just being honest. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. It's been a tough go of it for Chase Young. Oh, it's fired up.

It's fired up the mock draft simulator. Let's we got a lot of work to do partner. Boom. There it is. All right. If you want to do some mock drafting for yourself, head on over to pff.com. Get yourself a PFF plus subscription.

You can get the fully unlocked, unlocked mock draft simulator, which takes you all the way up to five rounds right now. And as I add more players to the big board, that'll eventually get to seven. once draft season is really in full swing we're gonna go four we're taking the new orleans saints here uh we have them currently picking a three because well they are currently picking at number three uh do they have their picks they've got three 35 67 no they need washington so we need to trade them washington's

uh what is it 93 i guess that would be yes their third round this year i'll make sure we get the exact latimore and then fourth rounder four oh we can select the player look at that look at that that's a beautiful part about the mock draft simulator it's an amazing machine yeah all right so yeah they sent latimore and their 2025 fifth okay well i mean that doesn't really matter for us yeah i'm just letting you know and the good people okay the saints got a third fourth and sixth oh and the six again doesn't matter nice little trade yeah it doesn't that doesn't doesn't really matter uh for us but good return um because all in 2025 yes do we want to trade that fourth round pick like for derrick carr do we want to get that off yeah that's probably what it could cost I think it's let's stick with our plan here okay all right let's just say I just picture a stapling

a fourth round pick to Derek Carr's back and sending him out the door all right what all right now this where are we trading him to where's he going oh god yeah this is the problem with all of this this is the giant problem do we have any place that would uh because we're we're certain the raiders are drafting a quarterback so it's not them man i mean titans fans were murderous i understand that's a problem with this exercise there's gonna be a fan base you going to kick the crap out of us. No matter what is not listen to this podcast anymore because of this. He's almost going somewhere as a backup in this scenario. When you when you're honest with yourself.

Who? OK, this is really gross, but sayryce young plays out no no no no say bryce young plays out the rest of this year and it's okay he kind of looks like the guy we saw against um their win over the saints and ironically say that panthers don't want to go into the year with the disaster class scenario that bryce stinks and they have nowhere to turn so they they get an asset back which they need you get a fourth round they get the fourth round pick and they get we're going into the year bryce is our starter but car is the veteran on the roster but you get an asset with him so you have a viable backup or emergency plan for bryce

stinking again and you got an asset i can can i talk panthers fans into this i listen i know it's hard can i talk you into it i should probably call it a day um you hate it what about the no i do hate it. I hate it. Yeah, I don't even like it either. I don't even like it either. I've never felt more like a used car salesman in my life. Yeah, this thing right here, it could go for days. Slap on the hood, it's got wheels falling off.

Yeah, it doesn't start. All right, I'll give you a choice. Okay, you ready? I guess. Titans? Browns? Steelers? It's the Browns because I think the Steelers should just bring back Russ in that scenario.

They have their own situation of this for cheaper. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it out loud, I don't know if they can. All right, Miami. What about Miami? Miami legitimately makes sense because if Tua gets hurt again, you've got to stop this Skyler Thompson, Tyler Huntley off the street like emergency hatch in a season you had huge expectations. And they get an asset.

But Miami's got money problems, by the way. This is the problem I have with this. Have you looked at Miami's cap? They're not like the type of team where it's like oh yeah we'll take their car like fuck it like they they're they're i know they're gonna open up a lot more space but they are projecting next year to have they're in the red by 11 by 12 million and they're gonna do work and they're gonna get out of But like, you're not looking to add a high priced Derek Carr, I don't think, when you're in the red.

All right, so the Titans? Yeah, Titans fans are going to just... Titans or Colts, right? Pick one. No, no Colts. No. No? No.

No? Oh, no. All right. It's tight. Because the asset is the selling point. If the Titans don't love this quarterback class, then you can stay competitive with Derek Carr and you can just operate this draft

however you want to pick the top talent. And you get a fourth round pick back. Right. And the Titans just had a massive win over New England. Like that's a massive draft order win. What are the Titans just had a massive win over New England. Like, that was a massive draft order win. What are the Titans' salary cap at? Oh, they're... Yeah, they're sitting pretty.

Oh, they have money for days. They got money. Yeah. That's what happens when you don't pay A.J. Brown. All right, so... All right, we're making this happen. Whatever. Yeah.

Force of trade. Derek Carr's off. He's off the team. He's off the team. He's off the squad. I don't, I don't, I just, he's going to be off the squad one way or another. Titans fans, don't kill us for it. Yeah, if you hate it, we'll just pretend it never happened to you. Sure.

It happened to someone else. All right, then we're firing this bad boy up. Travis Hunter goes number one overall to the New England Patriots. Tetrell McMillan, wide receiver from Arizona, goes number two to the Jags. So it puts the Saints on the clock at number three with every quarterback available, which makes this pick more valuable. I would trade back.

I would trade back to who would we realistically trade back with the Raiders? If they're obsessed with Shadur or the giants, if they fell in love with Shadur or Cam. Because that's not even that far back. No, it's not. You still got a blue chip player for this roster. You get an extra couple picks.

I think the Raiders would do it because they would want to jump over Carolina. I guess depending on what Carolina's situation is. And obviously you would want to move up because the Giants already tried to trade it for a quarterback last year. And the Raiders sat on their hands last year and it totally killed them. They couldn't get up for any of their guys. Okay. So what's the value here? Starts with 38. Okay, so a second. It's not an elite quarterback class, so it may be like 142.

I don't think this is a blockbuster deal. No, I don't either. I don't either. I don't either. I even wonder if you're getting a 142 and then you're kicking back a seventh or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

They have a lot of sevenths, I suppose. Yeah, so it's a pick swap on the on the back end yeah you're getting 38 as the sweetener and you are the pick swap's big i mean you're going from 253 to 142 that's a nice swap yeah okay yeah all right forcing that so uh, did I just, oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. The Raiders are on the clock now. Yeah, yeah. All right. So they trade and they do. They go quarterback at number three. Will Johnson go off the board at number four.

Mason Graham goes off the board at number five. Damn. It's okay. Okay. Still on the clock here for, now we've got some, we've got, we've got some picks, baby. We got picks here for the Saints. Edge rusher, quarterback, corner. Oh, God, I would have loved Will Johnson.

I mean, I'm taking Kelvin Banks. And I'm not even really thinking much about this. Yeah, I'd be down for it. You could talk me into Will Campbell as well. I'm taking the best offensive lineman on the board. I mean, if you are more convicted than I am here with offensive tackle, then I think that we go with that. And then we see which edge rushers and corners we got at the top of the second round.

Because now we're picking a 35 and we're picking a 38. Which is amazing. Okay. So, Kelvin Banks Jr. Yep. We're taking him at six yeah this line this line by the way it's getting mean quick like him and fuanga on the same line you you can kind of start punching people in the mouth a little bit okay cam warden shooter sanders is still here that's obviously not going to happen in real life right we can um now so we're going to ignore those two guys being on the board.

All right. So Prince Lee, Oman Mielin is here. Let's see edge rushers first, which edge rushers we got available. Prince Lee, Oman Mielin is here. Shamar Stewart from Texas A&M, Landon Jackson from Arkansas, JT Tuimaloau, Kyle Kennard. Ashton Jaladi, I think, is going to go higher than this, but I don't think second in a round two is still high for him. I know we're still getting him in here, but Mike Green would be in this group from Marshall.

You think second round? Oh, yeah. I think Mike Green's going in the top 50. Whoa. Yeah, dude, he's such a good pass rusher. I like him better than, I think, almost all of the guys available right now. Whoa! Yeah.

All right. I finally, finally, in the midst of this hellish season, watched tape for like five newish guys the last two days. LT Overton was a guy I needed to catch up on. Yep, I's obviously he's solid i wasn't i wasn't blown away no me neither but i think he's i do think he's good i think but my takeaway was like i watched mike green and i was like this is a top 50 pick yeah okay uh yeah yeah i'm telling you you'll really like him. You'll really, really like him. But there's some good pass rushers available here. I'm curious at corner what's here.

Jaday Barron is still here. Who we really have liked on this show. And I know that we've picked him already during a fixture franchise. For the Jets. But I do think that he's the best pick here. Yeah, that's fine. I'm looking at the corners that are left, and I like him the most. I like jumping on him the most. Yeah, I've got a problem with that.

Because he's really talented. He can play in the slot. He can play on the outside. All right, let's take Judea Baron at 35. You're cool with that. Yep. And then 38. We can take still any of these edge rushers. I guessar stewart went off the board from texas a&m

princely is the best pure pass rusher i think landon jackson's their type but he is big edge massive yeah and he's kind of like the cam Jordan replacement a little bit, you know? Right. You could play him up and down the line. I'd probably take Landon Jackson. I could totally. I could agree with you on this. Or, man, I feel like they've tried to take those bigger edge rushers before, though, and Saints fans might be like, yo, we've already tried this. Give us somebody who could actually get after the pass.

That would be Prinsley. Because Prinsley's got juice. That would be Prinsley. He gets off the ball that's why i like i like princely mike green and cayman rucker in that mold like they aren't all the biggest guys in the world but they get off the ball and they can rush on an island all right i'm gonna i'll take princely here we would would consider Mike Green from Marshall here as well, but we'll take Prince Lee. So we've got,

uh, Kelvin Megs Jr. We've got Jadae Barron, and we have Prince Lee, Umad Miel, and the edge rusher from Ole Miss, just to make sure audio only people are following along as well. Ooh,

uh, round three, we have two, round three picks. Do we write 93 as well? Yeah. That's a round pick. Yeah. Yeah. So we got two – round three picks, do we? Right? 93 as well? Yeah, that's a third-round pick. Yeah, yeah. So we got two third-rounders.

Man, we hit the staples, right? Yep. We hit the staple picks. Lucas Patrick is a free agent, although they do have Nick Saldivari, so maybe they're cool with that. Cesar Ruiz isn't going anywhere. McCoy's not going anywhere. We're restructuring those contracts.

Oh, what about tight end? Because you mentioned that Jawan Johnson's hurt. Ah, man, Tyler Warren's here. Yeah, he should be gone. He should be gone. So we won't pick him, but I will say I think we could pick like Harold Fannin Jr. or Mason Taylor. I think we can get them at the next

pick though, don't you? Like any of the three? I think we could get one of them there. Yes. Like Eli Stowers is probably the guy from Vanderbilt that I would target

if we're waiting until 93. I'd probably take an interior offensive lineman here. You could also talk me into just taking Ty Leak here and just have this

beefy interior. But I guess they're waiting to see what Brazee could do this year. Yeah, but remember, we would have moved on from Kalen Saunders, maybe also Nathan Shepard. Right, they have nobody. They drafted Christian Boyd last year.

I like Ty Leak a lot if he's going to be here. Yeah, I would take Ty Leak in this spot. Because we took a lighter pass rusher. So at some point we need a beefier front. Yeah. To balance that. I think Tyleek Williams might be gone before this. I think there's certainly a chance.

It's late. But. Yeah, it would. It'd be pretty lucky if you got him at 67 who are the other interior offensive linemen that i think went on or the interior defensive lineman that all went off the board oh sanders went a lot earlier so that would have been a spot where okay i'm cool with this we can take ty lee here and it's either ty leak or like i think tj sanderson south carolina i'm higher on so he goes higher in the mock draft simulator. But if this was TJ Sanders instead of Ty Leak Williams, I like that.

I still like that. Sure. So we'll take Ty Leak here, and then let's see what tight ends we have available at 93. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Good call. Fannin, Mason Taylorlor gunner helm eli stowers it's fannin right in this spot dude i might take stowers okay that receiving grade's crazy

let me see uh i just updated my tight end rankings but it's not it's not in the simulator yet i do have i do have stowers ranked above fannon okay but i have i actually have gunner helm ranked above him too it's sort of just um eli stowers is the more just receiving type of tight end yeah you can play on the line of scrimmage a little bit. Gunner can definitely play on the line of scrimmage. Fannin is so nasty, though. This year, he's crazy. Let's just draft Fannin. Let's give people a fan favorite.

Hale Fannin Jr. has already got over 1,000 yards as a tight end, tight end for Bowling Green. Just insane PFF grades. Actually, let me pull those up because they're hilarious. Just so people on the screen who are watching can see them. Look at this. 96.3 receiving grade. Stupid.

Absolutely ridiculous. 1,033 yards already this season. Monster. He's having like an Isaiah Likely year. He truly is. All right, so we got one more pick here in the fourth round because we traded the other one for Derek Carr. Sorry, Tennessee Titans fans. Just to recap, we've got

Kelvin Meggs Jr., offensive tackle to play on the other side of Talisa Fuanga. We've got Jaday Barron to start a corner now that Marshall Lattimore is gone. We've got Prince Lee Monmielin to start at edge with Cam Jordan being gone and just needing a little extra juice there. We drafted Harold Fannin Jr. to start at edge with Cam Jordan being gone and just needing a little extra juice there.

We drafted Harold Fannin Jr. to start at tight end after moving on from Boston Moreau because we needed to save a little bit of cap there. And then what was the other pick? There was one other pick. Who was it? Tyleek. Tyleek. And then it was either, you know, Tyleek Williams, the defensive tackle from Ohio State, was there.

But if he's not, if you think that he's going to go a lot higher tj sanders from south carolina another guy who i think can really give you some juice on the interior defensive line especially if we're moving on from caitlyn saunders if we got to move on from nathan shepherd as well which we didn't bring up in the cap segment but this was kind of just a dealer's choice here yeah i think show me the wide receivers show me wide receivers maybe wide receivers okay nice ones pat b. Show me wide receivers. Okay. Nice ones. Pat Bryant, Ty Felton, Ricky White.

I like all three of those guys. Pat Bryant would be awesome because between Olave and Shahid, they don't have a big outside blocking wide receiver. That's true. Bryant compliments what they have. I like Ty Felton a lot, but you already have Shahid. Yeah. Bryant, Bryant already have Shahid. Yeah. Bryant.

Bryant's a big guy. Like he's a legit six, three, 200 pounds. Yeah. And they, they just really do not have that wide receiver on the roster. They don't.

I like this. I'm down for this. If you want to do it. Yeah. Bryant would be, Bryant would be my pick here. I think, I think he'd be it on the field for them.

Illinois wide receiver, Pat Bryant, the bigger, he'd be it on the field for them Illinois wide receiver Pat Bryant the bigger strong x type of on the line of scrimmage wide receiver there for the New Orleans Saints which uh brings it to our draft what do we get what do we get what do we get b minus that's pretty good by pffs grades it's not bad it's not bad man so it's it's got like Kelvin Banks Jr. and Jadae Barron as a reach. Again, for my updated rankings, that's going to be solid. This would be an A draft if I had my updated rankings in there, which I will get in there, guys.

I promise. I promise. We're just doing a lot of things, and I'll get to it eventually. I need you guys to have the updated rankings so you can have the most realistic mock draft simulator experience. So there we go, folks. We did it. We fixed the New Orleans Saints. We started to no it's fixed we're good we're good that's it super bowl super bowl basically like we talked

about in the cap situation we extended a lot of the vets ryan ramchick um uh cam jordan they're gone we traded their car as well we got his salary off the books. We're able to draft a lot of future starters for that team. But I think the most important part is that whether it's this draft class or last draft class, a lot of rookies have to play on this team. Whenever it is, they finally decide to turn the page, which I think we tried to give you a case to be able to do this offseason. It's going to take a little bit of effort there. There's no doubt about it.

We would love to hear from you guys. This is obviously a fun one, an intricate one, one that we got into the salary cap and the free agency situation more than we do on most episodes, just because there was a lot to work through. It was an extended mini mock draft. We'd love to hear from you. YouTube.com backslash at NFL Stock Exchange

is the way that you guys can get in on the show. If you're audio only, hit us up on Twitter or Instagram at Tampa Bay Trey at Connor J. Rogers. That is the best way to do that. show if you're audio only hit us up on twitter or instagram at tampa bay trey at connor j rogers that is the best way to do that uh we would love to hear from you guys as we always do for these fixture franchise series connor anything else before we get out of here my friend no you nailed it let's hear from everybody who you know teams you're interested in us fixing we'll get back to stock watching stuff too as we said trevor and i've been watching some some new players some updates on players we've already seen throughout this college football season so don't worry we'll get back to that but it was

these were two big ones the Giants fans and the Saints fans they've been really loud about wanting these and the thing that's fun Trevor is we've been doing different cases right with the Raiders it was more of a okay how do we retool this roster and get quarterback? Right. With the jets. What does the future look like with Rogers or without Rogers with the giants? Like what is this team for eight years? What has gone wrong?

And how did they get this right under center with the saints? It was financial exploration. We have never dealt with throughout the franchise. So it's a little bit different story for every single team. That's a goal. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun to dig into as these episodes always are. Can't wait to hear from you guys. Wish Connor a happy birthday in the comments. I'm Trevor Sigmund. That is

Connor Rogers. Thank you guys so much for watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. See you guys next week. Thank you.