NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 30. Guest Mock Draft Series: Giants, Falcons, Seahawks & Jets (with John Schmeelk, Will McFadden, Mina Kimes & Joe Caporoso)

Episode Date: March 31, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers round out the Top 10 in the guest mock draft series with four guests for four picks: John Schmeelk from Giants.com, Will McFadden from The Falcoholic, Mina Kimes from ESPN & Joe Caporoso from Turn on the Jets

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at NFL Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV. I'm sure by now you've all gotten back into your Sunday routines, but they could be even better with NFL Sunday Ticket and YouTube TV. You get the most live NFL games all in one place, every game, every Sunday. And you can even watch up to four different games at once with MultiView, one of my favorite inventions of this decade. It's exactly what you need to catch all the action. Make your Sundays more magical. And also, YouTube TV is great.

I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. On this episode, we are picking up right where we left off with the guest mock draft series. We're knocking out four picks today, seven, eight, nine, and ten. We've got John Schmilk

from the New York Giants to pick for the Giants at number seven we've got will mcfadden from the falcoholic to pick for the atlanta falcons at number eight we have mina kimes from basically everywhere on espn to pick at number nine for the seattle seahawks and then we've got joe caporoso from the badlands podcast to pick for the new york jets at number 10 it's going to be a jam-packed show plus connor and i get into it a little bit over the new overtime rules in the NFL. I'm excited for it. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast.

I'm Trevor Sickle, and that is Connor Rogers. Kicking off the guest mock draft series again here on this episode. We've got the New York Giants. We've got the Atlanta Falcons. We've got the Seattle Seahawks and then the New York Jets. So we got two New York picks again here on this episode. That'll get us through the top 10, Connor. We will be through the top 10 of the guest mock draft series.

Excited for the guests. Excited for our reactions about the picks. How are we feeling today, my friend? Good, man. man a four pick show we haven't had one of those yet so you get a little extra today and i'll say this trevor and i should have known this this board did not fall the way i thought it was gonna fall in for a lot of fun surprises today uh and most importantly i think even than the actual picks themselves and i've seen some of the comments really liking this and we appreciate it you learn so much about the process of these teams man even like when we we had on you know obviously two guests for the giants two guests for the jets and we're going to do that with the eagles and texans and stuff like

that what one person might know a certain thing there but the other person might know something here so it's been a an awesome learning process for us doing this series. No, it's been a lot of fun so far, and I know that's only going to continue as we get more people on for the different teams and we get into that. Before we jump back into the guest mock draft series, though, there was a recent rule change in the NFL because the owners' meetings were going on this week as well.

Talk about the overtime period. We talked about this a lot on the timeline with the Chiefs and the Bills game how Josh Allen never got the ball back in overtime of a playoff game now that rule has changed that is no more both teams are guaranteed a possession now in overtime Connor I am curious do you give a crap about this I don't care very very much about it, but I also think it's kind of a joke, honestly. This rule change is made for TV, and I get it. We live in a world where most of the changes leagues are going to make are entertainment value-based decisions. And when you look at this right now this is a sense of

it's it's more entertainment that's what it is i am not a fan of this i am in the i'm not old school in a lot of ways i'm old school in the nature of stop them stop them you want to win the game stop them but the problem is this is a rooted issue because the league has taken away the ability to play defense because of the rules so now the trickle effect of this is since you can't play defense in the league they have to make sure everybody gets a trophy everybody gets their chance with the ball come on it's garbage dude oh no no no no no no no no no i think I think you're a hater. I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Everybody gets the ball. I don't want a little coin determining how my playoff football games are settled.

Because dude, when, when they have had this rule, the way that it is, the teams that have gone to overtime are 10 and two. When you win the coin toss. 10 and two, that shouldn't be. There's no way it should be that lopsided. That means that's telling you that there's way too much weight in the coin toss. And that's what I argued when this topic was hot after the Bill's Chiefs game. Look, here's what I would have to say about it. I agree with you completely. We're in an age where the rules, the tendencies, the everything is more catered towards the offense. It is an offensive age where the rules the tendencies the everything is more catered

towards the offense it is an offensive age when you get to the playoffs you were playing the best of that you were playing the teams oh yeah i don't want to say exploit the rules but like just use the current game of football to their advantage they have the best players and they're they're they're playing offense the best and so you are going up against those top tier teams in that regard. Of course, they're going to best most of the defenses that they go up against. So I think it's dumb that a team could win a coin toss, march down the field, score a touchdown, when the other team then didn't have an opportunity to respond at all. That tells me that there's way too much weight.

Football, there's not enough football determining the end of a football game. So I've always been a proponent of at least one possession per team. And here's the thing, people always push back and they'll say this. Well, okay, Trevor, the Chiefs go down and they score on their first possession.

The Bills go down and they score on their first possession. Then the Chiefs get it again and go score on theirs. So what, we're just going back and forth the whole time? No. If the Chiefs score on the first possession, the Bills then score on theirs. So what, we're just going back and forth the whole time? No. If the Chiefs score on the first possession,

the Bills then score on their first possession, and then the Chiefs score on their next possession, guess what? I don't give a damn. The Chiefs won the game. At that point, I think it's fair to say football determined the outcome of the football game. Because at that point, I think that it should be,

all right, you got to stop them. You got to stop them at some point. Defense is still a part of the football game. Because at that point, I think that it should be, all right, you got to stop them. You got to stop them at some point. Defense is still a part of the game. You got to stop them. But I think it is unfair not at least giving the other team a shot with the rules so swayed towards offense like they are today. That's my thing. So I love the rule change.

That's where I am. That's where I'm coming from. I mean, it was probably necessary, but it's a necessary evil because of how the rules have changed the game and i get it the nfl is a monster and we are very fortunate that we get to do this for a living and there are probably more jobs in nfl media because of the offensive explosion it affects fantasy football it affects obviously rookies coming in for the draft all of that i think it's great but the fact of how hard it is to play defense right now is the real root of why this rule needed to be changed

it's tough i guess i for the playoffs i totally understand i totally get it but it's just laughable that we got here it feels like because of that one game uh well i mean like the falcons patriot super bowl goes into it too and then what was mahomes's playoff game in overtime was his rookie season i can't remember there have been a couple of examples but like that was the big because it was the outrage those were the two teams that everybody thought were the best in the afc and it's you know that was that was, that was for sure. The outrage game. I'm glad it changed.

I am. I understand why you are mad. Cause you want defense to matter more, but let me tell you, buddy, it doesn't defense. Doesn't matter. I work for PFF now.

So yeah, you do running backs, defense, all these things don't matter to you guys. Totally matters. What I don't want to matter as much as it does is a small piece of metal. I don't want the coin toss to matter more than the actual footballs being played. So I like,

you know what I like though, without this rule change, I like the teams that change their fourth quarter strategy because they don't want to go into overtime. They don't trust their team. They are saying we're not built for overtime so we're gonna go for two at the end of the game or we're gonna play this differently we're gonna be more aggressive to end the game here i think changing these rules almost robs some of the fourth quarter magic we've

seen in terms of aggression because now overtime is a little bit more balanced. So it's the payoff is good, but don't also forget what it's taking away from as a whole. It's an interesting thought. I didn't think of that. I mean, it's an interesting thought. I still think you're wrong, but I didn't know. I, that is, this is an interesting thought. And I think that shoot, if we want to go even deeper a little bit than that,

I think some of the, I don't want to call them minor leagues, but like the USFL and the XFL coming up where they're going to experiment with a lot of these different rule changes, those might get implemented in the league. And so we might see just a different style of whether it's changing extra points or changing overtime or changing kickoffs and off on-site kicks. We might see a lot of changes in the rules over the NFL. And so buckle up. I think that this is the only the beginning before we get back to the guest

mock draft series, because we got four, like Connor said. So we got to get right to it. Got to tell you guys that you can get 25 percent off any PFF subscription using the promo code NFL. You can get all the premium content, the draft guide, the fantasy football guide, the in-season betting tools, everything with a PFF subscription. Go check it out. We've got a couple of different price models for you, on how much you want to spend depending on what you want to get back but no matter what you'll get 25 off any subscription that you sign up for if you use that promo code nflse just a quick recap before we get to the seventh overall pick with the new york giants jacksonville jaguars in this mock took aiden hutchinson detroit lions took trayvon Walker. Houston Texans took Kyle Hamilton. Jets took Kayvon Thibodeau at four.

Giants took Charles Cross at number five. And then most recently, the Carolina Panthers took Evan Neal at number six. And that puts the New York Giants back on the clock at number seven. All right, back at it, picking it up right where we left off. It's the New York Giants here at number seven in our guest mock draft series.

And joining us, we have John Schmelke who covers the giants for the giants. Ain't nobody who knows it better. Cause he's right in the building. He's covering it like anybody else. John, I always love talking to you about the NFL draft. Thank you so much for joining us,

my friend. Not happy with you guys, man. I'm excited. Giants two picks in the top seven, even though Pat messed up the first one, I'm going to try to salvage the draft. Wasn't pick number two. So I was going to say in the top seven even though pat messed up the first one i'm going to try to salvage the draft with pick number two so i was going to say at the top charles cross went number

five overall it's a good pick it's an offensive line pick but i was just chatting with john as i was getting him out on the show and he's like oh man i would have went a different direction we're going to totally get into that but i do want to go a little bit further big picture and ask you a little bit of what's happened with all of the big changes in New York. Obviously, Daniel Jones is still there, but new head coach Brian Dable, new general manager in Joe Shane. What's it been like? You've been in the building with these guys. You've been covering it. You obviously work for the team. You work very closely with these guys. Have you noticed anything in particular when it comes to scouting philosophy or process or

anything like that, which you've been able to hear from these guys over the last couple of months? Yeah. Talking to, you know, both Joe Shane and Brian Dable, but, but mostly Joe Shane and talking to a lot of people that were around Joe Shane and Buffalo, this is a guy that values traits, right? He's going to be a guy that says, well, if we coach this guy out, can he be a star? You go back to some of the guys and the traits of the players that he drafted in Buffalo, you know, size, speed, length, stuff like that matters to him. And the other thing that I think is very important, and, you know, we had this on one of our Giants podcasts here, the Giants huddle.

I got a one-on-one with Joe for about 20 minutes at the Senior Bowl, and he stressed to me how he takes very seriously the concept of premium positions. He understands that quarterbacks, offensive tackles, defensive ends and cornerbacks, and he kind of threw wide receiver in, but that's, you know, deeper, even though it's valuable. So I think he kind of pushed that one aside, you know, they're hard to find it for agency. And when you do, you're paying 20 plus million a year, if you're paying, if you're getting an elite player. So he told me it is very important if you can find the guy at those spots in the draft at cost control, and then you

eventually resign them, that to me would be a priority. So I think those are the things I've learned from Joe talking to him in the couple months he's been here about team building that I think is important. And then the other thing I'll throw out there too, and this is why I think Pat's pick at five made sense. Brian Dable said at the owners meetings, pretty much straight up. Yeah, we need to find a starting right tackle. There are no starting right tackles left in free agency.

So I think they already did fill that big glaring, flashing red light need that they have. So I think at seven, there's a little room to be flexible. So with that being said, John, we've seen Buffalo over the years, use a ton flexible so with that being said john we've seen buffalo over the years use a ton of capital on the defensive line we've seen the giants they have leonard williams on there for a lot of money a productive player a really nice rookie season for aziz ojolari who i thought was great value in the second round but it still feels like they're one

more edge pass rusher away do you think not just five, as we saw an offensive lineman come off the board, which makes a ton of sense, but at seven, they are doing all their homework on a loaded defensive line class. You brought up traits, you think right away of a guy like Trayvon Walker. Kayvon Thibodeau could be there. Jermaine Johnson could be there.

Is that something that has to be in serious consideration here? Yeah, absolutely. You talk about Joe Shane, Epinesa, Rousseau, Ed Oliver, three of the, you know, top 40 picks that, you know, you'll use on defensive linemen. And yeah, look, throw on top of that, Dexter Lawrence is heading into his fifth-year option year.

They had to make a call on that in May. So they only have him under cost control right now for one more year, then we'll see about the fifth-year option. You know, Leonard Williams, he signed that big deal last off season. It was only a three-year deal and that's a deal they can get out of next off season if they want to.

So the defensive line, while it's strong two years from now, the cupboard looks like it could be bare. So yeah, a hundred percent agree. And I think this is a good draft class for that. I think the draft class actually does match up with the giants needs at the top here pretty well.

So if you can get that edge rusher to play across him as he is Ojalary, which is kind of an empty slot right now because they lost Lorenzo Carter in free agency. I think that would be a priority for him because, you know, wing Barndale, somebody, while he does want to generate pressure with the blitz and play that numbers game, as much as the win one-on-one game, if you can set up one-on-one matchups for guys that can win them, that makes your life as a defensive coordinator a lot easier. You know, I know the contract and everything goes into the James Bradbury situation. He's still on the team as of now, but the report is, okay, he's probably going to be out. He's probably not going to be on the team when the next season starts.

And no matter how he is no longer on the team anymore, Logan Ryan's also not on the team anymore logan ryan's also not on the team anymore what's the thought with this secondary group and maybe how complete it is they've got guys like julian love and like xavier mckinney in the secondary uh at the safety spot and they've got a dory jackson they've got darnay holmes but losing james bradbury i feel like is is a big deal for them i know he's playing a little bit hurt last year but what's your overall thoughts on the secondary and how big of a need big of a priority they are going to put on that unit when it comes to the draft yeah you have successfully hit need number three and you know

they don't want to move james bradbury they would love to keep him on the roster here's the problem the giants currently are about a million over the cap or right at it. They have picks at five and seven in the draft. They need $12.5 million just to sign their draft class. And that doesn't even count the extra three or four you want to do waivers during the season and make moves and stuff like that.

So they still have a lot of work to do cap-wise. And that's why the only way the math works, unless you're going to heavily restructure Kenny Galladay, heavily restructure Leonard Williams, something Joe Shane has flat out said, he does not want to do. That's the only way to free money up, which is why I think you haven't seen a move from Bradbury yet, right? Because they don't want to move them. They would love to have me or that you need corners and wink Martindale's

defensive system to be successful. You need them. So if you do have to move on from Bradbury, which I do think they eventually will, you know, maybe it's after the draft, right. And a team that wanted to draft a cornerback can't get one there. No one's on the board and they're stuck.

That's the team that maybe would trade for Bradbury. So, yeah, look, I think it's important safety. I think could be a day two or three thing. You mentioned cutting low and Ryan, Jabril peppers just signed with the Patriots,

another guy that's off the roster. So it's basically Xavier McKinney who's excellent and then Julian Love who's not really a wink Martindale safety. He's not into the safety corner hybrid types the way Patrick Graham was. So yeah, I think safety could be a need, but I think given the defensive system and if they're going to have to lose Bradbury in some way, shape or form, cornerback is a necessity. Looking away from picks five, seven and even thirty six.

This is a tight end room that's seen a lot of turnover this year. Obviously, I have an Ingram signs in Jacksonville. Kyle Rudolph is let go. You got Seals Jones. Yeah, right. There's no one there. There's really no one there. So this is a good class though,

to address that. And the Giants are in a good spot where I'm of the belief no one in this draft is taking a tight end in the top 40, but you look at 67 and 81, even 112, it's a bit of a sweet spot. Is this a regime that's looking for more of the, you know, not what Evan Ingram was, the hard-nosed inline blocker to open things up for the run game with Saquon Barkley. And do you think that is a late day to early day three need that they attack pretty hard? Yeah, that's a great question. I'm not positive exactly what they want in terms of a type of player. Right. Mike Kafka comes from the Chiefs.

Travis Kelsey, he's your easy one. Yeah. So he's more of a, you know, F move flex tight end. Then Dawson Knox, more of your traditional, can do both. In line, mid-round pick, can do a little of everything. Guy for the bill. So I don't think they want to pick a plotter, right? You know, Dawson Knox, he still tested really well, even though he did not put up great numbers in college

because he was with what? A.J. Brown and D.K. Metcalf. I wouldn't throw it to Dawson Knox either. Who can blame him, right? So I think they're looking for a guy that's a good athlete, but that can do a little bit of blocking if they need to, which is why I think you can find somebody, and I think Charlie Kohler is someone that kind of matches that kind of athletic type of frame that you're looking at.

Kind of similar to Dawson Knox. If that could be an end around three early round four pick, I think that's the sweet spot, not their first third round pick, but their second, third round pick their first fourth. I think that's a good sweet spot there to maybe try to pick up a tight end. So let's kind of put you in the spot of maybe where Pat was just to get an idea of what your target positions or your priority might be for both five and seven. Connor and I were kind of talking a little bit before the show.

And it's funny because, you know, we didn't want to repeat the same questions to you that we talked about with Pat. But at the same time, you're only two picks behind each other, right? It's five and it's seven. Normally when a team has two first round picks, it's like, OK, somewhere around 10, somewhere around the mid twenties. And so needs change, but that's not exactly the case. So I'm curious, obviously you, you, you poked a little fun at Pat at the beginning of the interview, but what would your priority be with the board kind of falling the way that it was? What are you thinking the giants might do? What would you do when it came to prioritizing positions for five and seven look i think

offensive tackle has to be your number one priority here because a they've been trying to fix his offensive line forever be a big priority this year and i think probably an even more important priority than maximizing your wins is figuring out what you're going to do with daniel jones right and you want to put him in as good of a situation as possible to see what he can do. And for that to be the case, you can't start a turnstile at right tackle. And I do think the draft class talent matches up with that, right? So need meets value there.

And I would have been very happy with Charles Cross if Evan Neal and Iquanu were off the board, or Charles Cross here at seven, if he had picked, you know, Sauce Gardner or, you know, Kayvon Thibodeau or Trayvon Walker, whoever at five been very happy. But I just think given you have Andrew Thomas

as your left tackle, as a good NFL player, maybe eventually a pro bowl level player, you want to pick a guy if you're really good on the right side about. And that's a spot that Cross hasn't really played. And that's a spot, you know, Evan Neal has played at and probably been better at than he was at left

tackle. Right. And he's been successful there. So I think Neil would have been the easy pick there just because there's a lot less risk than you have with cross given his experience at right tackle. And just as, I mean, I think I said this to Connor in,

in, in Indy, when I saw him there, I said, dude, I've never seen a 340 pound man look like Evan Neal before. It's insane. He looked like he weighed 295.

It's insane. It was ridiculous. He isn't tested yet as of the time of this recording, but holy cow. I mean, he's going to test off the charts. He's played right tackle. You put him across from Andrew Thomas, that's as good as it gets in my opinion all right so with that being said let's put you on the clock at five you know whether it's cross or we'll say it could have been neil you know it could have been a quantum they they

got their answer at right tackle at five which is gigantic for the giants especially in a really good offensive line class they're back on the clock at seven. You know, we obviously have told you guys how the board has went. Hutchinson, Trayvon Walker, Kyle Hamilton, Kayvon Thibodeau, Cross. You know, these guys are gone. What are they going to do? What would you do here at seven for this team with a lot of premium talent still on the board?

I would have been throwing a party when I saw Trayvon Walker and Kyle Hammond and go with two and three. Because those are two guys that I know a lot of other people love at seven. I don't feel quite as comfortable with those two guys as other people do. So I'm thrilled that they're off the board and all these good players are going to push to me.

That's number one. So I think this is kind of easy. Here's my thought process. We talked about the needs, right? Who's the best edge left? I think you're looking at Jermaine Johnson, who I really like as a player. I don't know if I think he's the seventh best player in this draft. I would be feel much better at, you know, if I, I would pick up my phone first, by the way, and say, Hey, you know,

does someone want to move in head of Atlanta in Seattle for a quarterback? Do you want to give me a first round pick next year to hedge my bets on my quarterback situation? Saints Steelers, anyone want to talk? That'd be the first thing I do. If nobody picks up the phone, then I'm going to say, all right, other needs. Jermaine Johnson, like them, don't like them enough at seven cornerback. Nobody's off the board yet. I was thrilled to see sauce guard. They're on the board. I feel really good about that. We talked about Martindale scheme with cornerbacks, right? You need to be long, check the box. You need to be fast, check the box. You need to be physical, check the box. So he fits everything. I think that wink Martindale wants out of a corner by cornerback. Then I started thinking a little bit more.

And if you really want to fix this offensive line and you have charles cross at right tackle you have andrew thomas at left tack you sign all these low-cost veterans to play guard and center for you you know how nice would icky aquanu look as a quentin nelson style guard amazing just damn moving people all over the place in the run game you know you put him at left guard next to andrew thomas and you have like the walter jones hutchinson left side of your offensive line just moving people all over the place that sounds nice but i'm not gonna get that clever i thought about it but i'm not gonna get that clever i It's fun, and I'm tempted.

So I think Sauce Gardner's the pick here, boys. Seventh overall best cornerback in the class. You assume James Bradbury's not going to be there. Maybe, heck, after you get Sauce, maybe you feel comfortable trading him on draft night to get another early fourth-round pick or something like that, to pick a running back or something like that. So to me, I think you've got to go Sauce here, and you come out of this draft with your starting right tackle and a starting cornerback. I think that's a big win

for your two first round picks. My only follow-up question that, cause I think I agree with you, certainly everything that you said and everything that Pat said as well, this would be a great one, two hall forum, offensive tackle and starting corner. You mentioned how they want to get real. Well, they don't want to get rid of Bradbury, but they need to for cap reasons. What if they can't get sauce Garner? What like does, does, does one of these picks five or seven, like does that have to be a corner basically? Like if they pick an offensive lineman at five, cause they don't want Carolina to snipe them.

So they get whatever offensive lineman they like the most is still on the board. And then seven rolls around and let's say sauce isn't there. Like sauce goes three or, or, or four even to the jets or something like that would the giants feel like oh no like we have to take derrick stingley here at seven or we have to trade back and get a corner or would they be okay enough with waiting for corner for the top of the second round how desperate would they be here i think they have to to be, look, this isn't a, you know, maximize 2022 type of draft. In my opinion, it's a new regime. They have a fresh start.

You have to plan long-term here and get the best player. You can't just say, all right, well, we need to make sure our defense is better this year. We got to make a move. So no, I don't think they're going to reach there again i think not just me i think this front office will be very interested in trading down and then you know maybe you get a cornerback later if you can pull something like that off but no i don't think that they'd push a derrick stingley ahead of a cave on thibodeau for example just because they need a corner i do think i'd be surprised if the first two picks aren't from the edge corner offensive line group, maybe Kyle Hamilton's in that mix too.

That will, that that's what I think the pool of players is though, again, not just based on need that based on what the talent is that's available. Cause like I said, guys, this is a long-term process here, man.

Like you're as a new regime, you have time, you have years, you're coming into a long-term process here, man. Like you're as a new regime, you have time, you have years, you're coming into a bad salary cap situation plan for the future. That's why you want to try to acquire more picks for future years if you can. And that's the sense that I get from Joe Shane. He's not going to punt 2022 and just say, all right, let's win two, let's win two games. We'll get the second overall pick next year. We'll have to take either the Alabama or the Ohio state quarterback, and we'll be happy. They're going to try to compete and win,

but if they see something that helps for the future, I think that will be a priority over a short-term fix at a specific position. All right. There we go. John Schmill giving us his expertise on the New York Giants in a way that only he can. John, thank you so much for joining us, man. We really appreciate it.

Happy to be with you guys. Leonard, where are you? Bad i'll find them don't worry he'll listen to the pod he listens we'll relate to him but hey cross and oh wow i just i literally almost just said cross and sauce what a package right there that is i like it five and seven fire up the t-shirts baby cross and sauce baby all right now we are up to pick number eight in our guest mock draft series the atlanta falcons and oh man the headlines for this one and what the falcons could potentially do i mean there's been no short list for it they have been all over the map of what they could possibly be doing here

with different positions and different stages of the off season. So to help us navigate that we have Will McFadden on here who writes for the Falcoholic. Will, my friend, thank you so much for joining us on the series and being willing to pick for the Falcons here for us. Yeah, no problem at all. Thank you so much for having me on Trevor. Excited to make the pick. You know, the Falcons said they didn't want to be drafting as high as number four every year i guess eight is marginal improvement uh it doesn't leave me in as good a spot uh as it would have been last year but hey i'm happy to get a top 10 pick nevertheless it's 100 improvement right now you just keep going you know you're 16 next year and then 30 to the next year so super bowl for the falcons coming up

in two years from now but hey let we got to start talking about the quarterback position at Matt Ryan, because that's the biggest storyline that we've had over the last week and everything that happened there, because man, I think for the last two years, a lot of the off season talk for the Falcons has been centered around Matt Ryan, not just because he was the franchise quarterback of that team, but because of his contract too. Right. I mean, we were told that they could not move on from him and here they were all of a sudden just thrust into the deshaun watson conversation then they became the front runner of the deshaun watson conversation he ends up going to cleveland because of that insane contract that they gave him but unfortunately that left some damage in

atlanta now matt ryan is no longer there give us your take of that whole situation, how it ended. And now we've got to this point where Ryan is no longer in Atlanta. Yeah. I mean, it, I like the frantic nature with which you kind of recapped all of it because that's what it felt like in real time. It really came out of nowhere. I don't think a lot of people, and it's still a little bit hazy as to, I think, how exactly did it start? Um, you know, did Deshaun's camp reach out to Atlanta? Um, he's obviously from here, right? Home home was an enticing sell for him. Did the Falcons, you know, kind of always plan on, on the Deshaun Watson stuff. Like, was that in the back of their minds? It's unclear how it started, but clearly once it did start, um, it, it got going quickly. It felt like, and every day reports

ramped up where the Falcons are now in this thing. The Falcons are rolling out the red carpet. Falcons are maybe a 50, 50 shot with the saints. Eventually it did feel like they were the front runners, which made Arthur blanks comments recently at, at the owner's meeting so strange because, you know, he was asked about how all the background information that the team did and whether or not they were then comfortable moving forward with Sean Watson. And he basically insinuated that they did all of the research to have a phone call with Deshaun Watson. That was as far as they were willing to proceed at the time.

And had they wanted to go further and actually pursue a trade, they would have then done more research into all of that, which that's language that you use when you think you're at the beginning of like a whole trade process that clearly was not the case. And it seemed like the Falcons got in fast, they got in hot and heavy, and then it fell apart. That may have, and it probably did cost them that Ryan. Um, it only a couple of weeks prior to that at the combine Arthur Smith saying it would take a grandfather offer, uh, to get her a godfather offer, um, to get Matt Ryan. And then they, they trade them away for a third round pick. Now, I think that there was some damage done to the relationship. I then think once Matt Ryan became open to the idea

of leaving Atlanta, um, Indianapolis was certainly a very enticing place for him to win immediately. And it's become a thing that quarterbacks around the league have done. So I think Matt realized, you know, maybe I don't have to be tied to the sinking ship. Um, and maybe I can win at the later stages of my career while they're rebuilding and retooling for the future. Um, and maybe I can win at the later stages of my career while they're rebuilding and retooling for the future. Um, and so I think that's how it played out, but it's just unfortunate that that kind of seemed to come out of nowhere when I think a lot of fans were okay with Matt Ryan sticking around for at least the 2022 season. Yeah.

And to kind of turn back the clock even further, you know, I want to talk about Kyle pits and that selection last year, because, year because I thought his rookie year was fine obviously it wasn't like this crazy hall of fame rookie year but I thought it was totally fine especially for the player that they're getting in him believing of course the best is yet to come especially scoring more touchdowns than he did in his rookie season but you know when you turn back the clock a little bit you know I hinted at it being a two-year conversation with Matt Ryan and his contract and that was kind of why I was told the Falcons at number four overall last year, couldn't select Justin Fields,

couldn't select the Mac Jones because Matt Ryan wasn't going anywhere. And here we are not even, not even a full year later because the draft hasn't even happened yet. Matt Ryan's not even on the team. So take me back to me. Just what are your overall thoughts of what they ended up doing at number four overall? Did you think it was the right decision? And how does that now look with Falcons fans? And what are they talking about now with hindsight, with Matt Ryan, no longer being there and obviously them not having any of the quarterbacks that were in the draft class last year? Yeah. I mean, hindsight obviously paints a more, I guess, clear picture of, of how everything played out, but certainly at the time, I mean, hindsight obviously paints a more, I guess, clear picture of how everything played

out, but certainly at the time, I mean, we were, I was advocating, I wanted Justin Fields in that draft. Now it wasn't hard at me or hard for me at all to pivot once they selected Kyle Pitts and get excited about the player that they got. I mean, who wouldn't be excited about that? Um, and it made sense. I think that if, you know, there's, there's two reasons to, to take somebody like Kyle pits, it would be a, to help win immediately. Maybe it's a player like, you know, like a Julio Jones who they drafted in 2011, that pick was as much to push the Falcons over the top because they had just been blown out by the green Bay Packers as the one seed that year before. And they realized they, they needed to be more explosive on offense. So they kind of did everything it took to go be more explosive on

offense. You could understand taking Kyle pits for that reason. That's not where the Falcons were. The other reason would be, okay, this is a little bit of a longer term. And we just, we don't know what the roster is going to look like three years from now, but we want this player on it. And that instead of trying to predict kind of where you would be and where your strengths weaknesses would be or, or your needs when you're probably in a better position to compete because of the financial limitations, I think they just wanted to, to take, you know,

a queen on a chessboard, you know, just somebody who we can use in some way, shape or form whenever we need to 10 years, hopefully for the next decade. Um, but yes, now not having Justin Fields because you would, you would take him and then maybe he does sit for the year and he learns from, from Matt Ryan. Um, and that's a certainly probably a better situation than the one that he ended up in, but it felt like the Falcons were cool with Matt Ryan in the short term. Um, and so then the Kyle pits may pick the Kyle pits pick. That's hard to say. Um, it makes a lot of sense. Uh, it did at that time, but now, yeah, it's a

little bit kind of like, well, what do you, what do you do on offense? What, what are they, what are they trying to be? There's not an identity there. If you go take a receiver now this year, I mean, still what do you have to work with? So that's where without the kind of rudder of Matt Ryan, there's not really an identity of this team at all outside of, I mean, maybe AJ Terrell and Casey Hayward are going to be a cool corner cornerback trio. I mean, is that

like the most exciting part of this team right now outside of Kyle Pitts seeing what he can do in year two it kind of feels like that is well you know you you brought a perceiver there and you know that's where a lot of the eyes go to number eight because man if the Matt Ryan situation had a lot of roller coaster twists and turns uh the calvin ridley situation certainly did as well you go to the middle of the season and calvin ridley steps away from the team for personal reasons for mental health reasons and then there was kind of talk around november and december where okay you know when calvin ridley comes back it's probably not going to be for atlanta they're probably going to move him and now we are where we are and he's not playing football

next year because of the gambling for in the nfl while he wasn't with the team and everything and it's just like again that went from okay julio jones is gone calvin ridley's going to be the wide receiver one two okay they're going to get a good pick back for him to uh now they're getting nothing for him and he's just no longer on the team. So, you know, I think a lot of people naturally look at number eight and think this has to be a wide receiver. Does it have to be a wide receiver? Because, you know, in this class, I think there's a lot of guys to like, but what do you think? What do you think the team might do? What, what would you do? You know, approaching this wide receiver position. Do you think that it's gotta be the favorite at eight or how are you viewing receiver now with the Falcons? I mean, I think there really can be so many positions that you could

call the favorite at eight because, and it's, it's so weird that for, for the past couple of years, you know, while I was covering the team, you know, for the website. And then even since then, there's been such a fascination with BPA versus need in the draft. And I'm sure there is with every single team, but it felt like, especially here in Atlanta. And that is almost an irrelevant question at this point in this draft, because they have needs virtually at every single spot on this roster. Um, you could talk them in, you know, drafting an offensive tackle, even though they've got Jake Matthews, who they just signed to a, an extension and Kayla McGs, who they just signed to an extension,

and Caleb McGarry, who's not really a problem. He's not a solution, but he's not really a problem. Still, offensive tackle makes sense. But wide receiver, once the Calvin Ridley news came out and it was determined he'd be gone, Russell Gage, I think losing Foye, Lewakin, and Russell Gage in free agency really, really did have an impact

on kind of how the Falcons planned to operate this off season. And it left them completely barren at wide receiver. A lot of people here like the free agent signing of Auden Tate, but come on, what are we talking about here? And so for that reason, yeah, I think the clear four wide receivers who are in that top tier who Drake London, Garrett Wilson, Chris Lave, Jameson Williams. Um, I think of those four Drake London maybe fits what Arthur Smith has liked at wide receiver and some comments that he made late in the season. Make, make me feel like of those four receivers, Drake London might be the one in favor is he just said, we need to get more physical at the skill positions. You know, we need

to get physical out wide. Um, and obviously that makes sense with what, you know, they drafted in Kyle pits, kind of this big, big body target. Drake London would also make a lot of sense if they decide to go young at the quarterback position sometime in the near future, because of his big catch radius, his ability to win some of these contested balls, uh, which, you know, would obviously benefit somebody who may not have the accuracy of a, of a veteran quarterback, um, further along in his career. So if they were going to go receiver, I could see that making sense. I could also, you know, that any of those four, you can talk yourself into the potential,

right? Jameson Williams may not help right away, but is the elite deep threat in, in this, not only this draft, but he will be in the wide or in the NFL for the next, however long he's in the NFL. And then a lot of and Wilson are both just kind of really dynamic athletes. I see, I think Wilson a little more so, but a lot of a smooth, you know, there's some Calvin Ridley, Justin Jefferson, like that type of player, the Falcons could absolutely use that. I just keep going back to what we saw Terry Fontenot do in the draft last year with that first pick. And it was to take kind of a freak of nature player. Um, and I think because the Falcons, to me, this feels a lot like 23, 24 as their window of when they're really looking to get back into it, because they're going to get so much financial flexibility next off season. I still come back to just take those great, maybe potentially game changing type of players.

Sure. And they need somebody like that on the defensive side of the ball. Oh, by the way, there's some kind of talks, uh, you know, that came out from the owner's meeting about Grady Jarrett, maybe his future with the team. Um, so, you know, there's not really much anything there yet. Little smoke. Um, obviously he's got a big contract on the books would be a valuable trade asset. You know, it depends on maybe where the Falcons timeline is compared to his timeline as a player. If they decide to move on from Grady Jarrett, they, they would need some way to, it would give them a chance, I think, to change their defense a lot because Grady Jarrett's strengths as a defensive lineman don't mesh necessarily with what I think Dean Pease at his core wants to do, which is a three,

four type of defense. And to me, there's one player in this draft that could really set the Falcons defense up for that style of play immediately. And that would be Jordan Davis. So I just think that even if his floor is, is a top three run defend run defender on the defensive interior. Yeah. The Falcons have nothing close to that anywhere on defense. I mean, AJ Terrell is, is great,

but I don't think he changes the way an offensive plays more like as much as Jordan Davis would from the middle. Like he's, you're just putting a boulder on the middle of the field and you have to run around that. And I think that immediately makes the rest of the defense better. And the upside is a pass rush pass rusher is there, you know, he's not there yet. I know there's questions about his snaps, how much he played. I think Georgia had so many athletes that they honestly would have been stupid not to rotate. Yeah. Right. I agree with you. So I, so I don't worry conditioning.

You can get there. Um, you know, so all of these things, I just think when you use phrases like, you know, offenses have to change how they play for this guy. Like then what are we talking about? Lateral mobility? You know, what are we talking about? He sometimes loses leverage. He's six, six, like he's going to sometimes lose leverage, right? Just take the guy who can immediately impact the game to me. That's Jordan Davis. So if, if I haven't made my pick clear, clear enough yet, I'll let you formally ask. No. So, okay, there we go. We got, I got, I got two other questions that I want to ask you, but if you're going to make, the Jordan Davis pick official,

is that who you would be taking on this board for the Falcons? It sure sounds like that's the case. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the, for the sake of, you know, totally ruining the moment. I don't have a, I don't have a Roger Goodell script I need to read. So we don't have to do that. We can be a little bit spontaneous in that. So you're taking Jordan Davis. I got two follow-up questions because we hit receiver there and I'm fascinated

by Jordan Davis going to the Falcons because you know, it is kind of like you said, man, you drafted a unicorn last year, draft a unicorn on defense this year, and you're clearly not competing for the next season without Matt Ryan. When you traded Matt Ryan, you basically said we're in rebuild mode. I mean, you have to, there's no other way to look at it. Sure. GMs and head coaches are going to say, we want to win as many football games as we can, but you trade Matt Ryan, basically, man, this is a rebuild. So you get a cornerstone offensive weapon in Kyle pitch and you get a

cornerstone defensive guy in Jordan Davis. I mean, I think that that's a pretty great one two to build off of my two follow-up questions. First one, you mentioned the four receivers, but you left trail and Berks off. And I think, you know, probably more of a month, a month and a half ago, we saw trail and Berks maybe be mocked to the Atlanta Falcons for kind of the reasons that you're, that you're saying there, do you just not see him in that same category as these other guys? No, I really, I do. I do personally. I like him. You know, I think I would put him

maybe third for me. I think I have London and Wilson one, two, and then I would go Burks and then a Lave and then, and then Williams. Um, I really think that if they had not re-signed Cordero Patterson, Burks would have been the guy that, that I would have maybe pushed. I certainly would have brought him up in the conversation to me. They just are the same player. And that's where I was really interested and intrigued by Burks had the Falcons decided to say, you know, Oh, Cordero Patterson's market is a little too rich for our blood and we need a receiver. I could see that maybe bumping up Berks's value in their eyes

because they have a clear comparison for how they could have used him in this offense, which is that Debo Samuel Cordero Patterson type of role. It's just now that seems like it's, it's a little bit redundant. Um, that's not to say that they, they couldn't make that work. I mean, I really like Traylon Burks. It just seems like that's how he's best used. Now, my last question for you is, does the two year deal for Marcus Mariota keep them from picking a quarterback or having a quarterback on the board this year at number eight? Obviously, you know, if you trade down,

anything could happen because you're almost playing with house money, if you will, at that point. So, you know, if you, I don't know, trade down to 12 with the Vikings or something like that. And Malik Willis is still on the board. I mean, at that point, maybe you just, you don't really care and you take the chance, but if they're staying at eight is how, how much do you think quarterback is on the board for them? So let's say, let's say if all of the guys are on the board, would they consider it? Or do you think quarterback is on the board for them? So let's say, let's say if all of the guys are on the board, would they consider it? Or do you think that they're not really in on quarterback for this year's class? Let's see.

This is, this is the thing where it's like it's smoke screen season. And so you can read into, because on the one hand, they've been to nearly every single major quarterback pro day. And they've been out in force. On the other hand, I have seen teams be out in force too many times. And then they essentially have no interest in that player whatsoever, but they just want teams to think that they do. They're sitting in prime prime real estate for whatever team,

be it Pittsburgh, be it, you know, whoever needs to kind of come up and loves a quarterback, the Falcons are sitting pretty. So it could behoove them to make it widely known that they're interested in a quarterback. I don't know if they are. Um, I could see them, but then, you know, why the Deshaun Watson thing? You know, why all in on that? If if you could have avoided all of that, you could have avoided a PR incident. You could have, you know, and just taken a quarterback. There's going to if they liked any of them. I mean, one of them probably would have been there at eight.

And I could see it more likely that they would go with the day two or three and just see if there's anything there. Um, I Malik Willis, I think a lot of people have said, if you're going to bet on one of these guys, maybe bet on him because of the upside, you could see Marcus Mariota, maybe being a mentor for that type of player. The, the skillset obviously is more alike than it would have been with Matt Ryan. And I think Marcus Mariota is, is probably a very capable mentor in his own right. You know, strikes me as a really polished, smart guy. Um, but, but then again, like what, what's the plan here. And I, I don't know if the Falcons have enough information with this new regime to really be all in. And so they've said this whole time, kind of, we're evaluating everything, everything as it comes, you whole time, kind of, we're evaluating everything, everything as it comes, you know, everything kind of, and it really, that is the sense that I do get because there are some moves that make sense looking at them together. And then there are some

moves where you're like, well, what is this? You know, what do I make of this? And until I think they really are rock solid with what they want to do and are, and are all in keep stacked stockpiling these blue chip guys, um, and just keep kind of stockpiling these, these players and that you can build around, because if you know that your run defense is taken care of by a guy, you know, who can eat up two blocks and then still make the tackle that, that frees you to have different players around him. And he may cover up weaknesses for some guys who in other schemes, you may stay away from because you couldn't hide those weaknesses the way that you can with, you know, the mountain right there. So that's where I'm kind of like,

figure it out as you go. But if you're going to take that approach, then get these guys that can really alter the game, even if it's not in you know the 1a premier way that you would love for it to be altered build the team through the unicorns that's how will's doing it follow him on twitter uh at will mcfadden follow all his great work over at the falcoholic and then the believe in falcons podcast as well you could check all of his falcons thoughts over at those places too will appreciate you joining us and for making the Jordan Davis selection here for the Atlanta Falcons. Thanks, man.

Yeah, no problem. Finally got a Georgia Bulldog in Atlanta. There we go. There we go. Had to make it happen. Yep. All right, here we are. Pick number nine in the guest mock draft series.

It is the Seattle Seahawks. And joining us to make a selection for the Seahawks. I mean, if you listen to this podcast, you know who she is. She's on NFL Live. She's on Around the Horn. She's on the Mina Kimes show featuring Lenny. It is the one and only Mina Kimes. Mina, thank you so much for joining us here on this guest mock draft series.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to do it. I said in my little ask of you to come on this show that i hope the coping has been going well with the seahawks and i hope that this is a little fun and therapeutic for you and i think that's unfortunately where we kind of have to start things because for a really long time now russell wilson has been the starting quarterback for the seattle seahawks and this year he will not be so'm curious. As somebody who follows the Seahawks very closely, grew up watching the Seahawks,

you obviously saw a lot of Russell Wilson football. He was such an identity for that team. What was it like watching it all fall apart? I mean, that's so morbid to say, but it's so crazy to me that he's not on the team anymore. So I'm curious to hear what it was like from your perspective of how this all went down. The speed with which you went from, I hope this is therapeutic for you, to what was it like watching it all fall apart there was impressive.

I would actually say, you know, it was shocking in some ways, but not in others because this has been building for a while. Everybody knows. Russell Wilson's camp put out a list of trade places where he would be okay being traded to, which is usually a sign that things are not going well. Kind of like, you know, if your partner wants an open relationship, you know, it's like, Hey, it's probably not going to last.

I'm about to, I'm about to get accused of kink shaming. Yeah. So I think like somebody, people have been asking me like, who's to blame a lot. And I really think it's actually both sides, candidly for this falling apart the way it did. I think Russell Wilson had some reasonable frustration

with Seattle's team building approach, their offensive approach. Although that offensive approach has changed a lot. Like, you know, we're hearing the thing, I could say, I'm going to let Russ do Russ. And Seattle did try that for, you know, a few seasons and did bring on a coordinator from the Shanahan tree. So I'm not entirely convinced that they're totally to blame. And obviously Wilson himself clearly wanted to leave. There's been rumors floating for a while. It kind of felt like it was going to end badly at some point.

My only disappointment as a Seahawks fan is just I feel like they got a substandard return. So, Mina, let me ask you the golden question, because it's impossible to figure out right now if they are truly trying to continue to win or if they are going to blow this thing up. I mean, they have the oldest coach in the NFL, but they have still plenty of good pieces on this roster. They've paid, obviously, their safeties. From everything I've heard, they are not open yet to trading DK Metcalf.

Do you think they should completely hit the reset button or should they try to move forward in a brutal division but move forward with a decent roster and try to win now? I was team reset, but some of the moves they've made since the trade have made it very clear. They don't view their roster that way. Yeah. I think the biggest question mark is whether or not they think Drew Locke is a

viable NFL starter. I am not a huge fan after his first few seasons. I'd love to be surprised, obviously. But, you know, that's going to inform, I think, how this year goes, how their approach goes next year. I think what, you know, when I alluded to the return being substandard, I would also note that the timing was substandard because of, of course, the quarterbacks in this year's draft.

If this had happened last year, and i understand why it didn't uh you know and they had their pick of of the quarterback very good quarterbacks and ability draft capital to move up if necessary i would have been much happier with it or even the next year in the uh you know bryce young cj stroud bake off so i don't i honestly i just don't know what the hell they're doing most of the time final answer is you know when you kind of i guess to continue that a little bit with kind of a team building thought like i'm curious i always look at the seahawks and i feel like their offensive line is not where it needs to be but it always feels like the seahawks kind of are okay with that. And it, we're just, we're an interesting situation here in this guest mock draft where

Ikea Kwan, who is still on the board and I'm not so sure he's going to be on the board at this point, but I feel like maybe one of the good offensive tackles or a really good offensive lineman just is. But I mean, is, is offensive line going to be a priority for this team? Because like I said, I feel like over the last couple of years, it has been, but they haven't treated it like they're really in that bad of shape. And I'm curious, is that just kind of a, you think that just might be a Pete Carroll philosophy thing? Like, is he good with the players that they have? Or do you think they're really going to maybe talk about it and invest some big capital into it? Well, I think they actually have invested a reasonable amount of capital in the offensive line. A lot of draft

picks didn't hit between like 2013 through now. But, you know, they did do the trade for Dwayne Brown, which ended up being a pretty big win for them. And they gave up a significant, I think a second rounder for him, if I remember correctly. And then a couple of years ago, two or three years ago, drive to Damian Lewis, who's become, you know, a fairly solid starter. They added Austin Bly as a center this season.

Problem is, of course, you know, both tackle positions, still a question mark. Dwayne Brown, left tackle, ran a shell, right tackle, unsigned. I think it's very likely that one of those players comes back, you know, in later stages of free agency. But, you know, clearly, this is kind of my dissatisfaction with sort of the rise to construction the way they invest at certain positions is not exactly aligned with the rest of the nfl yeah no doubt

about that mainly strong safety and running that was i was gonna say it but off ball linebacker too baby well you know they let bobby go but yeah the drafts there yeah i mean speaking of these giant investments we we're just in this two-month phase of wide receiver mania where they're getting traded um obviously you look at the money tyree kill was just given we know that debo aj brown and now dk are going to be up for big money if those teams opt to to give them that dk metcalf a lot of people could say oh if you're going to rebuild trade him but he's 24. You can extend him and have him sit through the rebuild, and he's still a huge piece if you go that route

when you're ready to start winning again. Is DK the next $24 million-ish wide receiver, or is this a let's not allocate that money there now and we need to get at least a first-round pick plus back? I would pay him you know so i agree yeah after going through a few days of the kind of processing the kansas city miami trade uh tyreek hill and the contract they ended up giving him i think the longer i thought about it the more it you know obviously a lot of it had to do with the chief's timeline their roster all the holes but i also think he's 28 years old and his game is oriented on speed.

I think the Chiefs didn't want to give him that extension. As you mentioned, DK Metcalf is four years younger. I think if Tyree Kill was four years younger, Kansas City probably would have done it, right? So to me, like with Seattle, regardless of where they seem to think they are rebuilding or reset or whatever, there are certain players on the roster you want to retain. And Metcalf has been such a core of the last few years. He is their biggest star right now. I think it would be a really bad look to get rid of him.

Yeah. Shout out to the Atlanta Falcons for bad looks. You don't want to do what they did with Matt Ryan. That's just not in the place that you want to be. But I agree with you. It's just like all of a sudden dk went from okay this really exciting rookie wide receiver to now all of a sudden it's almost like he's the face of the seahawk so when people talk about trading metcalf obviously there's plenty teams in the nfl that would love to get dk metcalf i don't really know if seattle's willing to give

him up not just because of how talented he is but because of basically how much of a face of the franchise he is. So let's talk about this pick now that they have with number nine with Russell Wilson leaving, you know, is quarterback realistically on the board for them? I know they got drew lock in return and you talked a little bit about that, maybe considering things, but you know, there's a chance Malik Willis is on the board at this point, Kenny Pickett, Desmond Ritter guys like that. But you know, when you look at this pick, even outside of this guest mock draft and where we are with the board now what are some positions you think they're going to be targeting and maybe some guys in particular that they might look at well as we've discussed they don't have tackles right now right right but

the other the other glaring need with you know their free agents still out there the other glaring need on this roster is cornerback DJ Reed leaves. He was their number one. Now, off the top of my head, you've got Trey Brown, who was a rookie last year, got hurt starting. They brought in Artie Burns. It's not great. So I think those are the two positions you really look at.

And then quarterback, part of me is really tempted by the idea of just drafting Malik Willis, being bad this year, developing him, getting a great draft pick next year to continue the rebuild process. But I prefer the idea of taking an obviously top tier position player at nine and then maybe grabbing a ritter later if he's available all right Mina so we'll just cut to it right now Seattle is on the clock ninth overall so you are on the clock overall um this is kind of crazy Iki Ikuonu is there not as surprising Jermaine Johnson is there it's been a popular pick for Seattle all the quarterbacks are there so where is Mina Kimes going for Seattle with this top 10 pick I'm gonna go with player you actually didn't mention I'm gonna take Derek Stingley Jr. let's go oh yeah I like you I was

not expecting that at all let's go he's my cv1 I I haven't looked at a lot of mocks lately I don't know I assume Gartner's where most people are going first and i love he's gone but yeah people think people think that he's going to be the first corner off the board and he just went at number seven in this mock so yeah yeah i mean he's excellent he's phenomenal and fun to watch but i think derrick stingley jr has the potential to be one of the three five best cornerbacks in the NFL very quickly. So first of all, I'll address why I didn't go tackle. I like Icky a lot, and I think there might be some people who think, oh, you know, he's a perfect fit for Seattle, zone blocking, great,

and the run game. But, you know, Seattle's run game has actually diversified a bit over the last few years. It's not quite what it used to be and I also think like I would write this to me is like about positional value a little bit um given how bad the past defense was I would prefer to go cornerback which is a position you know where they're really under invested right now I think getting in all all-pro caliber cornerback on a rookie contract is just so valuable. And I just truly believe Stingley has that potential.

By the way, speaking of schema, I mentioned Iquanu and the zone stuff. I think there are probably people listening who are thinking, Stingley Jr. is a press man guy. How does that really fit into Seattle? Again, I tend to think too much emphasis is placed on that. But one thing that jumped out to me watching Stingley before the combine was he's really good in zone, too. Like, I don't know.

He's, like, such an all-around player. I mean, he's got every—he checks every box. And I personally write off a lot of the last two years to just kind of injuries and small sample size. But I just think he's too special to pass on look stingley is fantastic connor do you i can't remember do you have sauce or do you have stingley a cv1 i have sauce but um you know to be fair to mina sauce went to the giants at seven here right right i have i have stingley a cv1 so uh you know we're united on that front. And Connor, you and I have talked about it before on this podcast. If you can make sure that the Liz Frank foot injury checks out,

this guy is one of the top five players in this class, if you ask me. It's Caleb Farley-ish all over again. Caleb Farley was so much better than Caleb Farley ever was. Right, right. That freshman year... But the injury is scary. But it's the injury argument over again if you're in the top 12 or top 25.

Right, right. That's the difference. It's the type of injury. You know, it's... Yeah, scary. Liz Frank injuries can sometimes really linger around with the joints in your foot, and they can really, you know...

Connor, you mentioned it. Santonio Holmes had a Liz Franklin injury, and boom, it's like never the same. really linger around with the joints in your foot and they can really you know you connor you mentioned it's antonio holmes had a liz franklin injury and boom it's like never the same but if we get healthy derrick stingley back no doubt about it cb1 potential in the nfl and i think that he would be uh another great corner to add to a long royal line of secondary players for the seattle seahawks minik, thank you so much for joining us. I love that pick. That gave us a great reaction. I know people are really going to love,

but I think it's a great talent too. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me. All right, the Jets are back on the clock at 10th overall, and I have had a lot of conversations with this man about this pick because he's my co-host on the Badlands podcast, Joe Caporoso. Joe, I think I know almost every answer to the questions we are going to ask you today, but for the Stock Exchange listeners, this is going to be a lot of fun, man. How are we doing right now after an active free agency? Doing well. I'm happy to be here. This is the

best time of the year for Jetfans, as you know. So this is our regular season. This is our main event right in between free agency and the draft so it's the best time to be talking so the wide lens nfl fan has seen this team take a lot of swings at the big free uh big wide receivers that have been available the most recent being tyree kill and as you and i say we basically have a trophy case of the almost jets moves over the years at this point. The picks, the misses in free agency and trade. So Ed Tyree killed that one.

When you look at the state of this team, do you find it as interesting that Joe Douglas for the first time has shown you can't just sit around and say build through the draft at every press conference and that they are ready to roll out mega bucks, mega assets to finally start winning some football games. It's encouraging. It's encouraging that he seems to finally recognize that maybe not finally, it's not fair that he was cleaning up a very big mess from Mike McKagan. But as we've discussed a lot, it's time to work, to be competitive and not be one of the three worst teams in the NFL every single year. And you cannot do that by solely building a roster through the NFL draft. It has to be diversified roster building. You have to use free agency. You have to use trades.

You accumulate all this cap space and all these draft picks to be able to be aggressive. And to their credit, to an extent, because there's no trophies for deals you almost do, they were very much in on Chandler Jones this offseason, couldn't get it done. They're very much in on Chandler Jones this off season. Couldn't get it done. They're very much in on Tyree Kill. Couldn't get it done.

They may yet still be very much in on DK Metcalf, fingers crossed. They know that Zach Wilson needs every chance to succeed this year because Joe Douglas isn't surviving the second overall pick in the draft throwing for nine touchdowns next year. So he has to beef up that offense. And defensively, it was the worst defense in the league last year. So he has to beef up that offense and defensively was the worst defense in the league last year. So they have a lot, a lot to do. And I think we're pretty patient jet fans and pretty pragmatic, but Joe Douglas was hired in 2019,

May of 2019. It was a weird timing, but by this stage, you're six and 27. When you've got a full off season, you're only 12 in the AFCs the past two years. You haven't won a game in September since 2019, 2018. I think it was, that's how long ago it is. I can't even remember. So you got to find a way to expedite this roster growth. Guys like Jones and Hill would have done that to their credit. They did plug some holes in free agency, Lincoln Tomlinson, Jordan Whitehead, DJ Reed, you know, Conklin at tight end. They found starters, but there's still a lot more work to be done,

especially with how the AFC East is stacked up around them. Good Lord. Those stats are brutal. The, the divisional stats, those are, those are brutal. Okay. So, you know, you mentioned Zach Wilson. That's kind of where everything starts, right, when you draft a quarterback to overall. I mean, that's kind of where everything has to revolve around. Joe, I'm sure that you've talked about this ad nauseum. Connor, I'm sure, like you said, you'll know the words out of Joe's mouth.

But just for our listeners, where are you on Zach Wilson right now? What was the thought with his rookie year, the things that went well, the things that didn't, the reasons they went well, the reasons they didn't, and what's your faith level in, in what he could be here in this sophomore season? I think top line, it's hard to say it wasn't a disappointing rookie year. You just have to look at the stats and the production and the fact that he got hurt and missed, you know, four and a half games. That being said, he was a substantially better player post-injury in that final stretch run. Now we've seen this movie before as Jet fans when Sam Darnold finished his rookie year strong, got everyone very excited and

it never really clicked going forward. I think Wilson can do so much more with his arm strength than Darnold could and did show signs of being very special last year. I think the Tampa game in particular down the stretch when he was playing with just a ludicrously beaten up roster and he did an excellent job moving the football up and down the field against them. Showed an ability to run a little bit down the stretch, ran for four touchdowns when he came back from an injury, made the nine touchdown passes, hurt a little less,

has to work on his short game accuracy, definitely had an issue consistently hitting checkdowns and the intermediate to short passing game, uh, still was a little sloppy with the football. You can't just discount all the early season interceptions because they did still happen. I think with a better supporting cast and with some work on some of the mechanical stuff in the short game, he can be take a notable leap and be the guy who's here as a three, four or five year starter, a potential second contract quarterback. I do think that there was enough as a rookie to be optimistic that in a

better situation, we'll be going into next year feeling really good about him being the starting quarterback. So go quarterback so go ahead go ahead no i'll say like it it's fair to be skeptical uh because the lack of production was there but i do think he was better down the stretch than people gave him credit for it i was just gonna say it's funny that you brought up the tampa game because i had russ i had uh zach wilson my qb2 from last year so i was a big zach wilson guy i was like okay give him time like he's showing signs like i know it's not a great start, but like, he's going to get better.

And for that Tampa game, Tampa was like buying for a playoff spot. And so I was screaming at my phone. I'm like, Zach Wilson, he's a bum. What are you doing? How are you losing this game? So it was just a, every other week of the season, I was like, Hey, you know what? He's not too bad. He's showing a little bit of promise, but that week that sole week I was, uh, I in that mindset so i just kind of wanted to share that yeah it was a that was one of the more promising ones so when you look at this team that's once again armed with draft capital um because of the jamal adams trade they have the 10th overall pick because of the sam donald trade they have another pick in the top 40 4 10 35 38 four picks in the top 40 for 10, 35, 38, four picks in the top 40. When you look at the roster right now, Joe, let's not say four,

because that's not fair. What are two to three things they need to come out with from this draft with those premium picks? And we'll discount the fact that they could trade 35 and or 38 for a wide receiver. We'll assume they go in arm to all four of those. What are the two to three things? Edge and wide receiver right at the top of the list. They need explosive playmakers on each side of the football. They need to hit the quarterback and they need to score points. And, you know, with the edge rusher, you know, I love Carl Lawson, but it's coming off a really serious injury and he's had a hard time staying healthy and he's never been a double

digit sack guy in the NFL. So you need more an edge rusher, especially with the type of defense that they have. They're just a guy short there right now, you know, and a receiver as well. You know, for when they're an 11 personnel level, Elijah Moore, I think Corey Davis will be better next year than he was in his debut jets here, but you still need another guy in that starting lineup who could be a true difference maker and add some variants to that receiver group, win on contested catches, add some size, some yards after the catchability. Once you get beyond that, I think it's an interesting debate where you would say their biggest need is. I think you can make a compelling case that they need more on the offensive line, because there's probably a couple more question marks there and depth questions and some Jet fans

who want to admit. And I think another piece in the secondary wouldn't hurt uh as well um but those edge and receiver in my mind are kind of a clear like 1a and 1b before you get into any other position wide receiver has become such a diverse skill set position you see these guys of all different shapes and sizes succeeding in the nfl and you know even though gar Wilson's, you know, I guess we'll, we'll throw him into the mix as well. If you have all of these receivers in this class to choose from here at number 10, now I'm not saying this is going to be your pick at number 10, because we've got a couple of other guys that are interesting that are on the

board, but of the wide receivers in this class, who do you think would be the best fit? Like who, who is it? Drake London's contested catch ability. Is it yards after the catch stuff with, with Garrett Wilson? Is it Traylon Burke's ability to play inside out from the backfield, whatever, what wide receiver do you best think helps the New York jets from this receiver group? I mean, I think you can make a pretty compelling case that London rounds out the group the best because of how he? I mean, I think you can make a pretty compelling case that London rounds out the group the best because of how he contrasts Elijah, Elijah Moore and Corey Davis. All that being said, I would still take Wilson. If I had my pick, I think he has a well-rounded enough game

that he can line up all over the formation and create enough separation with his route running and speed that he can still get himself open where he doesn't always need to win on contested catches. So he is my number one receiver in the class. I don't necessarily think Berks and London are all that far behind. They're tightly bunched together. So I think it's kind of more of a two-person conversation, but I would still go with Wilson if I had any receiver on the board. So with that being said, you and I always joke how we've seen them kind of show hints and they've shown so many hints that you can make an argument for anybody. But when you

hear them going after Tyreek Hill, ready to offer that mega contract, ready to offer the number 35 overall pick and a lot of other assets with it. You look at Jamison Williams, it's, you know, the injury probably potentially takes him away from this spot but is there a speed element that this team needs vertically and do you think there is a factor of knowing the guy might miss the first month plus of the season that when the seat's a little warm for a guy like it could get warm it's not warm yet for Joe Douglas Robert Sala whoever it may be that they need guys that can come in and have an impact right away and that might might take him out of consideration. Yeah, it's a fair point because they definitely do need that home run hitter. I mean, that's not really Elijah Moore's game, although I think

he could win like that from time to time. That's not primarily where primarily where he's going to win. I think it's just hard to wrap your head around them taking a guy who may miss, like you said, the first five to six games of the season with the circumstance and that's not the right way to think about it obviously obviously you want to get the best value and the guy who's going to be the longest term contributor and that's why i think he is still in play at 10 or in play if for whatever reason they trade up from 35 and 38 and package and try to get aggressive if he starts slipping a little bit so you think there's a world he ends up on their team. And I do think he does something that neither of their other starting receivers do right now. And it's not crazy to think when it's all said and done,

he could ultimately end up being the best overall receiver in this class. But just in terms of staying put at 10 and taking him over Wilson or London or even Berks, I just don't know if Joe Douglas and Salah do that in their situation right now. If there is still really strong questions about his availability for this season. That makes, that makes plenty of sense. I think, well, let's put you on the clock here, Joe at number 10, overall,

you already have cave on Thibodeau who went to the jets at number four. So they hit that edge position that you were talking about a little bit earlier. You say you love it there. Who are you going with? You going with a wide receiver? You going with a best player available, a corner? Like what are you thinking about here at number 10 overall? And if the board fell this way, who would you be taking for the New York Jets? Well, I know it's Michael a little against everything I just said,

but I find it shocking that Equ Guana was on the board at 10 and I'm not going to pass up on a talent. Thank God you finally took care of this pressing issue. I, you know, I trust, I trust my guy Connor's evaluations. And if, if he is saying he's the best overall player in this class, I don't think that's necessarily, you know, a crazy opinion at all. I think there'll probably be a few other people who share that. How, how would you pass on that at number 10 and to go a step further with it, the jets are not like rock solid on their offensive line where they could consider just passing on them. I am not out on Makai Beckton at all,

but he missed all of last season. We don't even know if he's going to be ready for OTAs. And I just think you have to protect yourself also because George Phan is going to be a free agent after this year. And right now they have no capable backup tackles. Connor McDermott and Chuma Doga can't play. If they play, Zach Wilson has no shot. And so, you know, getting a Guano and honestly, look at this scenario happened,

which would be kind of crazy. I think they would probably look at a situation where could they get something back from that? Cause we got a guano at 10 and like, we want him in the starting lineup on day one with fan who we know the coaching staff loves. And maybe we work to keep them around long-term or you just take them and figure it out in training camp and you go in with extra depth and you sort it

out then, but you can't pass on him at 10. If he's still on the board, the talent to that, getting him, getting that level of talent or that pick is too good of an opportunity to pass on. Connor, what do you think? There's no disagreement. That's gotta be the pick in the spy. And I understand now, you know, what everybody that's a Jets fan is wondering, listening to this, in this scenario, you do need to package one of the second rounders with something else and come back in and get a wide receiver. Joe and I know that Joe and I say that all the time. This is a gifted situation that you got top, no doubt, top three player, my top player in the entire draft at 10, Thibodeau

at four. In our eyes, it's a home run. Me and Trevor think he's the best edge in this class. Joe, I know you were happy with that. It just creates a trigger effect that you know you're going to come back in and get a wide receiver and if you walk away with three premium players like that i think it's a total win for the jets yeah and and even if they don't shoot my mind's going wild thinking about okay well what if at the first four picks jets come away with tibideau equanu kyler gordon and george pickens right i mean like even like all four of those guys i think could be major contributors for him. And it's funny because, you know, Jets fans,

I think they're going to be going crazy with celebration here in this guest mock draft with the Kwano and Thibodeau. And then some people are going to look at it and be like, okay, Kwano's never going to make it to 10. That's true. He probably won't. But he did here.

But I got to play the board. That's all I can do. Joe did what he was supposed to do. But not only that, if you flip them, it's not that unrealistic. It's not that unrealistic because right now we're hearing about Thibodeau's range being anywhere from number three to number 13 when Houston picks again? Like, as crazy as that is, this haul of Iquanu and Thibodeau is not impossible for the Jets. Not to get their hopes

up too high, Connor, but it's not impossible. Alright, so the Jets walk away in the first round with Kayvon Thibodeau at 4, Icky Iquanu at 10. He is Joe Caporoso, at jcaporoso on Twitter. We do the Badlands podcast, which you can find on Patreon. Dude, always great to talk

to you. It's nice that we got to do an extra episode this week. Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it, Joe. And that is a wrap on the top 10 for the guest mock draft series. A little recap here. I'll give you a recap. One through 10. Jacksonville Jaguars took Aiden Hutchinson. Detroit Lions took Trayvon Walker. Houston Texans took Kyle Hamilton, New York Jets took Kayvon Thibodeau at number four, New York Giants, Charles Cross at number five, Panthers took Evan Neal, Giants again took Sauce Garner, Atlanta Falcons took Jordan Davis, Seattle Seahawks, Derrick Stingley Jr. and then the New York Jets for their second pick took Icky Aquana. We love all the guests that we have had so far. We hope you guys have loved it too. And we got a special one to recap the top 10.

You're going to get Connor and I's thoughts on all of these picks, how they came about, who is still left on the board. And we're going to have a special guest to do it. That's all coming up next week. Thanks for listening to the NFL Stock Exchange. We'll see you guys then. Outro Music