NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 301. Early Edge Rankings for 2025 NFL Draft

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

0:00 - San Francisco 49ers 3:20 - Guys who didn’t make Top-15 13:50 - David Walker, Central Arkansas 23:00 - Ashton Gillotte, Louisville 37:05 - Kyle Kennard, South Carolina 44:05 - Jah Joyner, Minnesota 46:10 - Jordan Burch, Oregon 55:30 - Josaiah Stewart, Michigan 1:05:00 - Donovan Ezeiruaku, Boston College 1:15:30 - Princely Umanmielen, Ole Miss 1:22:50 - JT Tuimoloau, Ohio State 1:31:30 - Jalon Walker, Georgia 1:36:15 - Landon Jackson, Arkansas 1:41:10 - Mykel Williams, Georgia 1:46:20 - Nic Scourton, Texas A&M 1:49:20 - Shemar Stewart, Texas A&M 1:52:30 - Jack Sawyer, Ohio State 1:58:20 - Mike Green, Marshall 2:04:10 - James Pearce Jr, Tennessee 2:08:30 - Abdul Carter, Penn State 2:14:15 - Recap

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama. That's Connor Rogers here for another early positional ranking episode of the 2025 NFL Draft. Today, we're flipping over to the defensive side of things. We talked about quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, offensive tackles. We're going to get the tight ends and interior offensive linemen. I promise we'll touch on those. But we're hitting all the premium positions, the Hollywood positions, the big name positions, which of course means we had to start with the edge rush group here with the defensive side of the football.

We're going to be giving you our top 15s, our early top 15s, which Connor and I were chit-chatting a little bit before the show, trying to not do the show before the show, but it's very natural when you log on with somebody who you can't wait to hear their thoughts on a certain prospect, you start talking. Connor, we did 15s, and I've got guys who, I rank 20. I got 20 guys, full scouting reports on 20 guys already. I'm going to get to 30, hopefully within the next couple of weeks. There's guys that are not in my top 15 who I'm like, damn, I kind of want to talk about these guys. It's just a really, really deep group this year. I felt the same way. I watched 18 for this show. And as

people will catch on deeper into the show, there's two guys that I am not ranking for this exercise today that I'm ranking in different position groups, but you'll see them come up case by case basis in some rankings. So we'll get to them. So that could have even taken it to 20 for me. And like you said, and I didn't finish, right? Like we've been watching these guys for eight or nine days, and it's the middle of January.

Fortunately, the draft is at the end of April. There a there's a lot of guys on the shrine accepted invite list that I have not gotten to yet yep um there's a couple guys that you know did decide to declare but the high profile guys the guys that had big summer grades the guys that have senior bowl invites and the big underclassmen I watched all all of them. So, I mean, if you're listening, you're getting the takeaway that this edge group is very deep this year. Yeah, it truly is. You know, there's so many guys that I want to get to and talk about. And obviously, as things evolve over the next couple of weeks,

you know, we'll go to Shrine Bowl, we'll go to Senior Bowl. There'll be even more players that really catch our eye. Got to get caught up on a lot of the Shrine Bowl guys in particular because, dude, we're, what, a week away from Shrine Bowl getting kicked off, which is very, very exciting. All-star season is upon us, so that's always a good time here on the podcast and here with the NFL SE community

as we get to learn a lot about these guys, seeing them in practices. You want to just start with 15? You want to go 15 to 10? Or is there anybody that didn't make the top 15 that will actually be lied about? We talk about that all the time, being a little bit lied about it, but do you just want to mention the names

of the guys that didn't make the top 15? Yeah, the three on the outside looking in for me that I think deserve shouts was Kamen Rucker from UNC. Okay, I was wondering where you would have him. I loved him over summer. I know. He was hurt this year. So that really and i know the last game somebody rolled up on him on a pretty ugly play

but that he had a different injury that made him miss a couple games this season so he's somebody that you know maybe we get a late accepted invite to an all-star game i know he has said he's out of eligibility i think he deserves to be at one of those really liked him over the summer it's just you know some some tough circumstances this year and that's why i wanted to give him a shout because i mean he can rush the passer he just needs to be healthy and needs to be right kyle canard uh did not make my top 15 i know there'll be some pretty decent grades on him the pass rusher out of south Carolina. So transfer from Georgia Tech. He's a fifth year senior.

And then Mikhail Kamara from Indiana. Somebody that I did a pretty big tape breakdown for NBC this season and was a transfer player for Indiana. And they got the most out of him. He's a fire hydrant rusher. He's like 6'1 on his tallest day uh 6'1 in boots and 265 270 so he's he's thick he brings great effort I thought he was he was a good player for them this year he's not in an all-star list is he he's not another one that I just I can't wrap

my head around that one yet uh but the kind of season that he had so those are the three guys that just missed my top 15 that I think they can play. I really do. I think that they'll all obviously be drafted and they're not like sixth or seventh round guys. They're earlier than that. But yeah, they just missed the cut. What about you?

Yeah, my five guys that I'm not going to talk about in depth here. David Walker from Central Arkansas, who is a redshirt senior, three-time FCS All-American. I mean, he was a zero-star linebacker coming out of the state of Arkansas, just a really under-recruited player. You talked a little bit about Mikel Kamara and kind of how he's built. David Walker, sort of the same way, 6'1", 260 pounds. He's just a smaller player. Now, I love how he approaches the game. He consistently attacks the half man. His hands are always active. He's just not really built like an NFL player.

And so I think he is somebody who, given his pedigree, given his work ethic, how his motor is always running hot and how great he was against his competition, I feel like he'll be a depth guy that coaches will love maybe as a day three selection. But I don't know if he's too much more than that. He'll be at the Senior Bowl, though. Yes, he will. That's a big deal for him. He's 15 for me, by the way. So I'm glad you brought you brought him up okay so we'll talk about him a little bit more in

a second tyler baron from miami who is at tennessee he's number 19 for me so he was somebody who i'm very intrigued with he is going to the shrine bowl so i'll get to see him up close and personal when we're in dallas at that event and i'm really excited about that but he came in at number 19 for me this is where it starts to get tough like this is where it starts to say like oh yeah this guy when we're in Dallas at that event. And I'm really excited about that. But he came in at number 19 for me. This is where it starts to get tough. Like this is where it starts to say like, oh yeah, this guy just missed the cut. I got Ashton Jalati from Louisville here at number 18.

And it's like, dude, I like this player. It's shocking to hear that, but it's not for me. Yeah. I like Ashton Jalati. He brings a lot of power to his profile.

I got to think he's in your top 15. Right. So yeah, but it was close and I can't believe that so me too he was so i watched probably i don't know the top let's say like seven or eight guys which we'll talk about a little bit later in the show and then i wanted to get to some of the smaller rushers the guys who aren't necessarily winning with height so talking about guys like Josiah Stewart from Michigan Kyman Rucker from UNC um Jackson Gelati was another one of these guys uh who's another one that I had up here oh like Donovan is a rock who is kind of somebody that David Walker I would kind of put in this conversation and so I watched all those guys

next and as I put them a little bit lower on my list just because I've only watched you know 11 12 players at that point it's like all right I got you a lot of 8 11 i kind of feel i kind of feel good about this and then i just watch more players watch more players watch more players and just like them a little bit more and here gelati is at number 18 but he's a pretty damn good football player at number 18 so this just tells you how deep this list is i got kyman kyman rucker at number 17 as well um Yeah, I see sort of the same things that you do. Really good pass rusher last year. And I thought that he was pretty good this year. Again, this is somebody who just, I think there's size limitations for him. And when you have size

limitations, you got to have a lot of juice. And there's another player on this list who's a little bit smaller who we'll get to, who I think has got a little bit more juice who can make it work. But Rucker was one of those players. So I was still wanting a little bit more athleticism wise, but dude, he's somebody who loves the game of football. I mean, he got hurt this year. I was reading up on the background of why he missed all those games in the middle of the season. So he actually suffered an injury. It was a weightlifting injury. He said in the gym during the summer and he kind of just like felt something in his knee, but it wasn't like something was bothering him too bad. So he kind of continued to play through it eventually it was

something that needed some minor surgery during the season and the first game that they said yeah i guess you could go out there and be fine he suited up and his coaches told him hey you're playing single digit number of snaps like we are not playing you very much in this game to make sure you're good and he's like i don't care i get to put on the helmet again i get to put on the jersey and the pads again i'm doing it so this is somebody who clearly loves football um and is a uh is somebody that you're gonna want to round out your roster yeah the butcher best nickname in this uh this group and then at number 16 we have a scheme dependent player in my my opinion, in Jared Ivey from Ole Miss. Do you have Jared Ivey in your top 15?

I didn't get to Ivey. He was the only senior bowl guy I think I didn't watch. So Ivey is massive. So he's a redshirt senior, but he's really kind of coming to his own over the last couple of seasons. He's over 6'5", 6'5 1⁄2", 280 pounds. So we'll get into some other guys in this episode that we talk about. Well, are they edge players? Are they more interior players?

For Ivy, I have him, if I'm just trying to rank him in a vacuum, right, where I don't have a specific team or scheme that I am putting him in, it's hard to say, yes, I would definitively take him over some of these players that I have a little bit higher on this list. But if you told me, I know the Cardinals have Darius Robinson, but this is just the first team that popped in my head. If you tell me, all right, I'm making a board for the Arizona Cardinals running their odd front, Jared Ivey's probably a lot higher on this list because he's got really fast hands. He's strong as an ox.

He can take on all different kinds of blocks. He can play anywhere from like a two-eye out to a – I mean, he played like seven technique for Ole Miss, but I don't think you're going to play him too much. He's an outside linebacker type. But he's the one who I wanted to have at least a little bit of a conversation about because I think he's a really good football player. If there's no team that I'm putting him on, it's really hard to have him a lot higher on this list just because he's not naturally gifted as a pass rusher. And to be honest with

you, his first step is good for a weight adjusted player, given how big he is, but his first step is never going to be a consistent threat to the outside shoulder. So it's hard for me to sit here and go, okay, well, even if I project you to a 4-3 defensive end, that you're really going to be that big of a difference maker. Because if you're never threatening to the outside, NFL teams, just the offensive tackles, they're too good at being able to funnel you inside. They know they could cheat a little bit and they don't have to kick slide all the way out. They don't have to overcommit that way.

They've got help against the guard as well. So as just a 4-3 defensive end, I don't love what his impact could be. I think he's got a low ceiling as a player. But if you tell me he's going to play in an odd front, well, then all of a sudden I think he could be very valuable for you. So he is 16 for me and just missed this list here, but wanted to make sure that I shouted him out before we kind of got into the swing of things.

Yeah, it's a good call out because a lot of people are going to be, you know, probably wondering about those guys. So you want to jump right in? Yes. OK, 15 to 11. All right. All right. 15 to 11 here.

David Walker. I already brought up that he'd be 15 for me. He is somebody that has had a really fascinating college career because he's had two stops. He was at Southern Arkansas and then he transferred to Central Arkansas. He was actually somebody that I thought would transfer up after 2023. Yeah, because it was his second year being an FCS All-American.

It just, it's, he outgrew the competition, right? I mean, this is somebody that literally from 2022 to 2023 had 20 and a half sacks. And, you know, we'll have a deeper combo about him in a second. He's just a man amongst boys at that level, which is why I guarantee teams were pushing hard for him to get a senior bowl invite to figure out like, okay, how real is this?

And that's a shout out to that team that, you know, the senior bowl that gave him the invite because this was one that personally for me and people in our jobs, this helps a lot. And I'll talk about Walker and all of those things in just a second. But 14 for me is Jod Joyner out of Minnesota. Oh, I didn't get to watch Jod yet. Okay, you got him 14. Another Senior Bowl guy.

Liked him over the summer. I don't think he just missed, liked him over the summer. I don't think he, he just missed my top 10 over the summer. I actually think that he was better in 2023, but there's just a lot of traits with him. And then you brought up Jaladi from Louisville, uh, who is 13 for me. 12 for me is Donovan as a Raku from Boston college,

a true pass rush demon. Like you could argue had the biggest pass rush season out of anybody in the country, just on a pure number standpoint. So I'm sure we'll have a long talk about him. 11 was Jordan Birch from Oregon who wisely went back to school after 2023. He had really early day three grades out of summer or arguably late day two. And I think he really helped himself this year.

I was really happy to see the changes and the growth that he made this year because I was not high on him when I watched him for 2023. And then, okay, so Birch was 11. And then do you want to go to 10 or just 15 to 11 no just 11 is fine yeah i think i think 11 is fine there yeah um all right so yeah let's talk about david walker a little bit i think that that's that's probably the one that i'd like to spend a little bit of time on first so central arkansas i'm with you man i thought that this guy was going to transfer somewhere else he's arkansas through and through you know he was he was born in the state of

arkansas um he his first school was southern arkansas university which was a d2 school and then he transfers to central arkansas so i wonder if basically the only option for him to get elevated was the university of arkansas and maybe they weren't interested in him i mean he's certainly different landon jackson would have been nuts it would have been nuts but it would have been so extremely different you know what i'm saying like landon jackson somebody who we'll talk about a little bit later in the show and jackson's six foot six 270 275 pounds and david walker's over here at six", 260. They're just built very differently. So I think that Arkansas maybe would have been interested in him talent-wise. I wonder if Walker and his people reached out to Arkansas.

And I wonder if Arkansas said, hey, we'd take you as an outside linebacker. We'd take you as an off-ball linebacker but we sam pitman has traditionally wanted his defensive lineman bigger longer than the way that walker is built so i wonder if that was just a thing where he was like hey i want to stay in the state of arkansas this is my home state this is where i play this where i grew up this is everything and if he would have made the jump it might have been there but maybe they didn't have a spot along the defensive line for him. So he said, all right, cool. No, that's no big deal. That's fine. I'll just go back and have another FCS All-American season. It's fine. It's not a big deal. No worries. But highly productive football player. He's played over 1300 snaps

over the last two years. I always like to use a two-year sample size when I'm looking at things like pass rush grade, run defense run stop rate pass rush win percentage wins above replacement average because um steve palazolo taught me when i i first came to pff is the numbers the data it's great when you have a bigger sample size you get a clearer picture of the player you know you don't just want to say like oh what was his pass rush win percentage on a season where he was injured a little bit and he only played six games it's always tricky to be able to use those numbers as projectable or stable metrics as we call it. So I like to use at least a two-year sample size. Sometimes you could use the whole career, but I don't love

using the whole career either because there's so much growth that happens when you're an underclassman. So I always just like to use the two most recent years to paint to me the clearest picture of who you are as a prospect. So over 1, the last two years that's a lot that means walker is on the field a lot there's a lot of prospects here on this list they're in like the 8 900 snap count range over the last two years but he's got a lot of snaps under his belt 94.0 pass risk rate 93.9 pass risk rate on true pass sets which is taking out play action taking out rpos is taking out screens it's basically true drop backs true pass true pass rushing sets where the quarterback really has a traditional drop set to where you can you actually have a chance to get him before

the ball comes out of his hands over 20 passers win percentage 92.1 run defense grade despite being only six foot one 260 pounds you love to to see that, but just to give a little bit of context, he's much more of a run defense by gap shooting and getting into the backfield than he is the player who's going to fire his hands up and inside and hold the point of attack and hold the line of scrimmage there. So to me, I did like this player. Him being 20 on my list is more a testament to just how good this defensive line and edge class is more than anything else but you had him a little bit higher so talk to me about David Walker what you saw in him well you said a lot of the the analytical side of things

the 98th percentile pass rush great on true pass rushes that's what showed up to me on tape is that when there was a real drop access to somebody that is a natural leverage monster because he's six foot one uh he wins with swipes he can dip his shoulder he can angle his body i actually actually saw this year the ability to generate speed to power from his hips and kind of unleash his hands into the numbers of offensive linemen now you know that also ties to a question i wrote down in the weaknesses category like this is somebody that dominated a lower level of competition. The best team he played the last two years was Oklahoma state. That was week one of 2023. He did have four pressures that game.

So it's not like he was, he was invisible that game. He was completely fine. In that game. I think that you want to see Kenny convert power against these offensive linemen at the senior bowl that are a higher degree of, you know, lower body strength and anchoring.

But I really like how he swivels his hips to kind of navigate around blockers and into the pocket. Like this is somebody that carries 265 pounds, but he doesn't look sluggish. He doesn't look slow. There's not the laid footwork. The closing speed is tremendous. This is something that, you know, we've harped on a lot, but sacking the quarterback is a skill.

It's not, hey, this guy had all these hurries this year. He was just unlucky. Finishing plays is a skill. And David Walker finishes plays because he has closing speed and burst. And this is somebody that understands how to create fumbles for forced fumbles this year. And that is also a skill. When you get to the quarterback, not only are you finishing plays, but do you know how to take away the football and create, you know, flip the field kind of situations? The 21% pass rush win rate this year, obviously that's really high. It's not surprising with this level of competition.

Like I said, 20.5 sacks the two previous years before that. 39 tackles for a loss from 2022 to 2023. Really interesting tweet from Jim Nagy from June where he said that he's been on their radar when he was a transfer from Southern Arkansas because he had the 20 and a half sacks the last two years. But Jim said in the tweet that he heard Walker turned down some really big NIL deals for the FBS level. So you brought up the Arkansas true and through there, Trevor. Maybe this is somebody that was not only loyal to the program, was comfortable in the program, felt it was suited for his skillset. There was obviously some big money on the table for him to go to jump up a level of a jump up a football level

and, and he passed on that. And now he gets the opportunity to kind of showcase himself at the senior bowl. So he's 15 for me. He was ironically 15 for me over summer scoutingouting and I've had my eye on him for a couple years now just because the numbers were so jarring in our system but I think there's real NFL ability with this guy in a rotation and I hope he has a couple moments at the senior bowl that kind of propel him up for people to take him seriously because right now I would think he's sitting in that sixth and seventh round range but if he tests tests even average and has some really big wins at the Senior Bowl, I wouldn't be shocked to see him go in the fourth or fifth round as a rotational pass rusher.

Yeah, I got a fifth round grade on him right now. And that's without seeing him up close and personal, which we're going to at the Senior Bowl. And obviously, if he's able to continue to have a lot of success against higher level of competition, even with some measurable limitations there from him. You start thinking about him as a mid-round player just because of how successful he has been. So I got a developmental sort of fifth round grade on him as it stands right now,

but a player that I'm really looking forward to watching as we kind of move on here. Man, it's hard to not watch him and think he's 20 less pounds than this player, and this player was already very light for the position, but he feels like he looks like Clyde Jekansi. He doesn't play quite like him. No, but they do the same swiveling and dipping and angling. They're so great with the hands, and they're so great with – I said this before, and I'll probably say this throughout the show.

So when we say attacking the half man, what we mean is you have some pass rushers that just want to go through you, right? They square their shoulders up to the blocker shoulders. They get their hands inside. They want to push. They want to put them on a sled. They want to bull rush them, whatever. You're attacking the full blocker. You're getting right in between their shoulders and you're saying, I don't care where your stance is. I don't care that you're right in front of me. I'm going to run through you or I'm going to be able to stack and shed. I'm going to be able to club rip, something like that, whatever. I'll be able to get around you some way. Walker is always conscious to not do that. And he's always trying to say, Hey, I know I'm a little bit lighter than this blocker that I'm going up against, but if I make him only, if I give him the opportunity to only block me with half of his

body, well, then I like my odds. I like my odds there. And so he's always making sure that he's not just running into you square. He's trying to make sure you turn your shoulder. He's trying to attack one shoulder or the other. So he's attacking the half man because when you do that it's much more advantageous as a pass rusher just because it limits how well an offensive lineman can stay in front of you that's why getting around and getting even and crossing the face against slower moving offensive tackles that's why that's so advantageous because you get to cut them in half and attack half of their body instead of allowing them to conjure their full strength to stay in front of you and mirror and neutralize whatever rush um plan that you have so walker's just very conscious of always being able to do that to me

it's why he has so much success if he continues to be able to do that at the senior bowl level then we're talking about somebody who's a lot of fun let's talk about action gelati next so i had him at number 18 you had him a little bit higher would you have him 13 14 something yeah i had gelati at 13 so gelati uh university of louisville another guy who shocked he's not in an all-star event he's not a shrine or senior yeah redshirt senior no he's obviously very eligible. You know, he just I think I don't know. I don't know why the word very made me laugh there. He he he is. He's very eligible. When you are. It is a joke. But when I say that, I mean, when you are out of eligibility, the you're on the radar of all star games early, like the underclassclassmen that stuff comes in later now but right you know there i would imagine there's communication with these guys from the all-star games over the summer

when they're out of eligibility i would think so too especially i think he just got squeezed out of the senior bowl honestly when you look at the roster you're like oh yeah like there's a couple guys maybe he was waiting for one of the other maybe he was waiting for a senior bowl invite and now i think the shrine bowl is already they've already got all their delinements so maybe it's too late to go to shrine he was thinking that he might be going to senior and and i don't i just i don't know either it's a missed opportunity either way unless that changes so so you got him a little bit higher than i do um let's bring up the profile let's talk about him a little bit yeah he's six two and three eighths he's 266 pounds he's got a big lower half Let's talk about him a little bit. Yeah, he's 6'2 and 3 8ths. He's 266 pounds.

He's got a big lower half. That's the thing you notice right away. Like he's a dense waist down. This is a dense human being. Kind of a drop off in normal, like baseline production this year. In 2023, he had 11 sacks and 14 and a half tackles for a loss.

But his pass rush win rate was around 18%. Ironically, this year, only four and a half. But his pass rush win rate was around 18%. Ironically this year, only four and a half sacks, but the win rate was about 21%. So a lot more pressures for Jaladi, but not as many finishing plays. This is a former two slash three star recruit. Uh,

went to his state championship and weightlifting in high school. Once again, it's not surprising when you look at him, like he is every bit of 266 pounds and that really helps him in a lot of ways. It really school. Once again, it's not surprising. When you look at him, he is every bit of 266 pounds. And that really helps him in a lot of ways. It really does. I mean, he plays with his hand in the dirt. He can play up and down the line of scrimmage.

They use him in different alignments. He's got a very varied pass rush approach. He looks like a guy that you think is a straight line power player, but he tries different things. The long arm, some outside burst uh swim move he tries to use his length in different ways to attack i give him credit for trying the long arm because he really does he doesn't have long arms no but he tries to play like he does i think it maximizes length

i think it's just a like a bull rush variation right like he knows that he's gonna win with power and so instead of just that straight two-handed hands extended bull rush you know you're using your leg drive to push him back into the quarterback's lap you're switching it up a little bit and being able to put one arm out there and have the rest of your body kind of leaning around and seeing where the ball might be going i think it's just the variation so i actually i do i'm glad you called it out because i do i give him credit for it because he doesn't have very long arms and In fact, I think that length is actually a big-time limitation of his, which I'm sure we'll get into. I think he's really creative, and I think he clearly puts a lot of work

into his craft because he tries a lot of different things. He's got speed to power. When you're built like that, you've got to generate speed to power. He does it against both offensive tackles and interior offensive linemen. He's got a pretty good understanding of how to flip his hips to angle his way into the quarterback. And it's funny saying all of these things, because here's the thing with Jelati and why

we're both lower on him, probably than a lot of people would be. I'm sure you'll see him on the fringe of top tens. I don't think he's very explosive, fast, bendy or twitchy or long. I like I don't think he's extreme, like a poor athlete, but when you stack them up in this class, I didn't see high end athleticism. And to me, that was the difference of having a lot of pressures versus having a lot of sacks and quarterback hits. And there's times where he beats the tackle. He's creative. He understands how to create space or power. But the quarterbacks run away from him. You watch it sideline to sideline.

He doesn't keep up with them. These quarterbacks are so athletic at both the college and NFL level now. And they just outran him or kind of weaved their way around him. And that doesn't mean you're not a useful player. I want to be really, really clear. But I think it's something that when you're projecting to the NFL level, I think it becomes a lot harder to play that way where you're, you're chasing down Josh Allen,

Lamar Jackson, Jaden, like all these guys can really run. So I think that, that hurt Jaladi a little bit, but his lower half and how stout he is and the way he can play with power, he's reliable against the run. He gets set the edge against the run. Like there's a lot of things about this guy that you go, okay, I don't know if

he'll ever be this big pass rushing presence as much as he's creative and he's getting better, but I have a floor for him because he plays with power and he plays somewhat sturdy against the run. So yeah, I just don't think his testing and it's not just the testing it's what you see on the field will stack up against some of the upper echelon defensive ends and stand up rushers in this class yeah i i think that he has a strong first step but i don't totally disagree with you about just the overall athleticism right when you watch him rush the pass and i'll bring this up i think as we kind of go on i'll bring this up with other edge rushers. So when you're rushing the passer, you don't have to do this. I mean, I guess you don't have to do anything. It's free country.

You could rush the passer however you want, really. But ideally, if you guys can, you know, close your eyes, unless you're driving, don't close your eyes and envision the stance of a of a pass rusher normally your feet are not parallel together they're staggered one foot is in front of the other and if you'll notice some pass rushers will launch off of their back foot and when they do that not that it's the worst thing in the world, some guys are more comfortable launching off of their back foot, but it can sometimes cause, okay, then there's sort of a false step, like a little tap step or a false step with the front foot. And when you're launching from that back foot, you're not exploding up the arc as quickly or covering as much ground as you possibly could. Now think about it the

other way. Think about then launching, loading your weight and launching off of your front foot, the one that is there. Then you are eliminating the chance of any false steps and you are immediately gaining ground past the line of scrimmage up into your blocker and even to the outside shoulder to really threaten that outside shoulder. Gilotti consistently powers off of that front foot, which I think gives him, I don't want to say illusion. Illusion is kind of the wrong word because I think that he does have a strong first step. It maximizes whatever his first step is going to be.

But then as the rep goes on, to your point, you see that lack of just overall athleticism. He's only about 6'2", just over 6'2", so he's got shorter stride length. Yeah, that's a good call. You talked about pursuit speed and him not really being able to keep up with jet sweeps or running back moves to the outside

or quarterbacks kind of escaping. It's because he's got those shorter stride lengths to him. And then I think the biggest issue for him with me is that lack of length makes it very difficult for him to get off blocks for a player who has as powerful and as violent of hands as Jelati does I thought this guy would be a terror to keep blocked up but instead that wasn't the case he gets to my my my early my early comp. My early comp for him is Adrian Claiborne. And Adrian Claiborne was a first-round pick to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, but he wasn't that player that showed that he was worth that first-round selection. And a reason why is because I think they loved Adrian Claiborne

because of the first-step explosiveness that he had, that bullish power that he had coming out of Iowa. He was about the same size, about six foot two, 265 pounds. The issue was he could never really develop into a pass rusher outside of that six sack game that he had once when he was in Atlanta. One of the weirder NFL, like him and Gary Barnage are two of the weirder NFL outlier situations. But it's one of those situations where I think if you look at his career as a whole and you look at how Adrian Claiborne's career was as a whole it feels like that's sort of a good parallel or a best case scenario given some physical limitations and how they like to play the game of football so

that was my early comp there but I do see a lot of the same things for you this is a player who man brings you the power profile you love for a football player and I'm surprised I had him at 18 but that's why I had him at 18 he's sometimes he's like a youtube pass rusher where it's like man like you you try things and i have to really tip my cap to you because i think it makes you well one it's not like he's just out there like doing things like an idiot like i'm not saying that i'm saying like it's made him a better it's made him a better player than he was ever supposed to be right like he i called it he was a two-ish three-star kind of recruit

and he's developed himself into like a legitimate nfl draft prospect so i think he's craftier and strong more so than he is an athlete and i think that could be a compliment because it goes to show you that work ethic's not a question in any way, but I think you nailed it. The word limitations is how I would put it. Yeah, I think we can go to my 15 through 11 because there's a couple of names in there that are gonna start the next conversation. Before we get to that though, New Year's a great time to reevaluate

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Additional services provided by Apex Clearing Corporation. All investing is subject to risk. Learn more at meetfabric.com. All right. 15 to risk. Learn more at eatfabric.com. All right. 15 to 11 for me. Early edge rush rankings for the 2025 NFL draft. I'm acting like we just came back from network commercial. We really are.

We're 33 minutes into the pod. Look. Your team is seeing it up like, okay, here we go. Let's start. When ESPN wisely priorit nfl stock exchange over their highest rating sports center we just got to be ready for it i'm just getting the reps i actually respect the hell out of that you are one step ahead i'm over here playing park checkers on the 40 year old cement table you got hey but if hey but if you pick the right day you could be playing

checkers in the park against victor wimpy did he do that in new york didn't he do that in new york yeah washington square park she's extremely casual just playing checkers against uh wimpy you and i was you've walked through that park with me the last time you were in new york and we got breakfast me you and alissa that's the park we walked by so i'm just about say, when we left for breakfast, we were walking through that park again, and there were two old dudes playing chess, respect the crap out of it.

And part of me is like, I want to wait for this game to play winter. I want to get down. You can. No, you literally, that's the beauty of it. Like strangers play strangers all the time. It's just, it's like pickup chess. It's what it is. Who's got down?

Who's got down? It is, it is pickup chess. It is one of the, like, you know, things that you just hold on to that are timeless. That is one of those things in New York. I love it. I love it. But I, one of my favorite accomplishments in my life is absolutely smoking my dad in a series of chess

at a vacation house that we had. They had like a chess day. I know this is super random, but we were on vacation. Well, I think it was just like two years ago. And in the living room, they had a chess board and I had never beaten my dad at chess before. He taught me how to play the game. I'm genuinely, I don't think I had ever beat him before. He always whooped the crap out of me. We hadn't played in probably 10 years. And I was like, hey, dad, you want to play? I smoked him the first game.

Didn't even see it coming. Blindsided. He wasn't ready for it. And then you could tell he was that meme where he's just like sitting up in the chair and he's like, all right, we got to do this. I whoop him again. Oh, man.

He's got no idea. This was best of three and he didn't all right we got to do this i whoop him again oh man he's got no idea this was best of three and he didn't even he didn't take one i almost i almost felt bad you know no mercy you've been waiting your whole life for that moment damn the future is now old man all right getting back to edge rushers number 15 i've got josiah stewart from michigan okay number 14 i have kyleard from South Carolina do you want to talk about him because you mentioned him just outside of your top 15 number 12 I have or sorry number 13 I have Jordan Burch from Oregon number 12 I have JT Tui Maloau from Ohio State and number 11 I have Prince Lee Uman Mielen from Ole Miss okay uh you want to start you want to start with canard

yeah let's do canard quickly i i would really like your thoughts on him um my very like tldr with canard was i just didn't really know what he wanted to be at 65254 it was like okay it looks like you got length you got a frame that could get even bigger. I saw an inside move, but I just, after that, it was somebody that I didn't see consistent enough pass rush. I didn't really see a stout run defender, and I didn't see a lot of different, you know, variety in his plan, and I thought he played a little high and didn't have the flexibility I hoped for.

Yeah, so 6'5", around 255 pounds, but he looks lean. I wonder if he played a little high and didn't have the flexibility I hoped for yeah so six foot five 200 around 255 pounds but he looks lean I wonder if he's a little bit closer to 250 but his frame also looks like a frame that you could put a little bit more I agree so I I think I'm I'm looking at Kyle Kennard through some rose-colored glasses because I think I'm trying to buy into what the best of him could be so he's a redshirt senior played at South Carolina this past year but played the previous four seasons at Georgia Tech. He was a three-star defensive end from Atlanta, Georgia, stayed close to home going to Georgia Tech, and then he ends up going to South Carolina for this past season.

It was great. It was great to see him and Dylan Stewart on either side of the defensive line. You had Tonka Hemingway. You had TJ Sanders as well on that defensive line. It was one of the best defensive lines in the country. Career year by far, like far and away. Oh, absolutely for him. He won the Bronco Nagurski Award.

He was an all-conference player, and he was an All-American. I mean, this was the best year he possibly could have had, and he is entering the NFL at the right time. He is truly one of those redshirt senior transfer stories that it's like, hey, this worked out really well for him so you can take advantage of a lot of great opportunities now that the transfer um portal is sort of open up the way that it is so like you mentioned some of the deficiencies there for him i think he's a little bit light when he plays from that two-point stance to stand up outside linebacker type of a

rusher um he's naturally a little bit high he can get bounced out of gaps bounced out of the club as they say a little bit too easily so you want him to put on a little bit high. He can get bounced out of gaps, bounced out of the club, as they say, a little bit too easily. So you want him to put on a little bit more weight. I'd like for him to be a more dense, closer to like 260, 265. But he also wins with flexibility and agility and being a little bit quicker.

That's something that I do think is a calling card of his game because, man, I actually saw some really good pass rush plans from him. Nice little cross chop. He's got the bull rush you know chop rip with the one arm when he's really trying to just attack the outside shoulder he's got a dip and rip he's got that long arm move with him having long arms at six foot five he's got a nice he's got really nice stack and shed ability for you know push pull if it's a pass rush or stacking and shedding when he's against the run so he does

have that he's got some pretty good hand usage there and he's got that little like you mentioned that little inside move that was the best step inside move i thought was really great for him so to me he really understands how to get after the passer and that pass rush profile for him and sort of the high iq and the way that he attacks the pocket is something that i really like that i like the hand usage i thought the hands were pretty precise from him. And I don't think he's got the best first step, even with him being a little bit lighter. I don't think he's this rare athlete,

but I do think he's got a little bit of bend to him. He's got a little bit of flexibility. It's all at a decent level. But ultimately I think he just tries to win with a high understanding of how to keep himself clean. You know, the two hand swipes, making sure that blockers really don't get their hands on him.

The bottom line for his scouting report for me was Kennard shows a good understanding of how to win as a pass rusher in varying situations, both in odd and even fronts. I think I like him most as a hand in the dirt 4-3 defensive end, actually. Okay. But he does have to gain a little bit more weight. I was going to say, he's a little light right now for that. If he's going to play as a 3-4 outside linebacker,

I think he's sort of like good as is. I think he can survive that way. But I do wonder if his best position is ultimately being a 4-3 defensive end, but he would have to get a little bit bigger for that. He's leaning long, which is a plus for arm length, but a negative when holding up versus the run. His handwork and footwork show a great baseline to build a successful pass rush profile around the league

as a day two selection, in my opinion. He doesn't have the juice that this player does, which is important with how they win. But he is similar similar in my opinion to your boy bj ojalary but in how he likes to attack the pocket but he isn't quite the athlete that ojalary was and i don't think he's quite as flexible as ojalary was so he's a little bit yeah he's a little bit of a tick down in those two areas, but I think they approach the game the same way. And I think just sort of as a specialized pass rusher,

he is somebody who I like the tape because of how cleanly he won as a pass rusher and how he approached it. Yeah, I don't think you're off at all. He's a weird balance in your mind when you're evaluating him because you look at him and you go, man think he's he can get bigger and stronger i like his length but he is 23 this was his fifth year he's a fifth year breakout which is fine i mean at georgia tech across four seasons where he played all four seasons he had 12 and a half sacks this year he had 11 and a half so now the pass rush win rate was only 13.11 which i was surprised about

i just but that's where it came that's where it jumped out to me that i thought he played high and he wasn't very flexible where it's like he got stuck too often but his highs like you said that inside move the long arm when he wins clean it's fun when he won clean and he had 11 and a half sacks but he didn't he it's one of those like the more you watch you're like man there's a lot of nothing going on here and i thought there was a lot of nothing against some of the better competition he faced that's what kind of bothered me the most with canard i think and i hate being this guy but i think he had three sacks against old dominion week one am i making sure am i i'm getting him right i'm not sure it was it was

sometimes i write these down where i'm like okay big sack numbers are big numbers but what it uh like was one game inflating um okay i take yeah old dominion yeah he had two and a half week one but he had he had some other big games like alab, he had two and a half week one, but he had some other big games. Like Alabama, he had two sacks against, but one I remember was unblocked. So once again, a guy that just missed my top 15, there's something to work there with his build. I just didn't see a consistent disruptor.

And the guys in this class that I did rank in my top 15 that aren't consistent disruptors were meat hook, heavy handed run consistent disruptors were meat hook heavy handed run defenders they were my fabric like they are the meat the meat fabric uh what did we used to call the the method of eating wings the meat umbrella umbrella the meat umbrella the meat umbrella players of the year that's what they were so we'll get to them. Okay. Well, Jordan, sure. Yeah. You want me to go real quick on John Joyner since he was 14 for me? Oh, yes, please.

Yeah, let me let me go real quick on John Joyner, who has a senior bowling bite, which is really big for him. Six, four and a quarter to 56. Richard Senior out of Minnesota. He was he was kind of a force in 2023. Seven and a half sacks. eight quarterback hits, 29 pressures. This year, a little bit dip in pass rush production. Four and a half sacks, six quarterback hits, 23 hurries,

a 12.8% pass rush win rate, which is actually lower than Kennard's. Long arms, heavy hands. He's got a frame that can play through contact without losing speed. To put it in perspective, like the really low pass rush win rate this year, he had a 23.1% win rate in 2023. I just thought he looked more flexible that year. I thought he looked twitchier, a little bit more loose. You know, sometimes guys are playing through something

or they gain a little weight. You never know what it may be, what they're asked to do. And going back to it, where you can kind of draw conclusions, I think they played him in a four-eye too much, Trevor I think they played him in a four eye too much, Trevor. Like they played him in a four eye in 2020. He also plays wide and standing up. But when you play him in a four eye, I just thought it took away from the ways he could win and disrupt the game.

And, you know, sometimes you got to be a team player and fill a void. That's really tough for your team. But, you know, when they played him with his hand in the dirt and kicked in a little bit, you watch the Wisconsin game. He really gets washed out of the run game. Guys get under his pad. Sometimes they would double him and he would he would be on the ground too much for me. So I still think he's learning how to utilize his length to stay off blocks and not let

players get under his pad so consistently. But when you just look at the 2023 pass rush film with the raw build he has and where he was a little bit more loose. I saw a player that, you know, there's something there and the senior bowl could be a really big opportunity for him. If he can kind of take a little rest after the season and come in on fire. Love it.

Love the shout out. Somebody who I watched a little bit in the middle of the season, but I still need to do the full eval of him. Now that we got the senior bowl coming up, I'll probably wait to do the full eval to be able to watch him in person at the senior bowl so glad that we got him in this show though uh certainly for the reasons that you mentioned jordan birch at number 13 for me was he 12 13 for you 11 for me okay so he was 11 for you so you're a little bit higher on him than i am true senior out of the university of oregon he started started his career at south carolina

was a defensive tackle um coming out of high school in the 2020 recruiting class. He's actually from Columbia, South Carolina. So that is the city in which the University of South Carolina is. So stayed close to home. Committed to the Gamecocks. He was the highest ranked player that South Carolina had signed since Udavion Clowney when Clowney was the number one overall player in the 2011 recruiting class, which Udavion Clowney, ifowney if you wonder like man how did he go to South Carolina

from Rock Hill South Carolina right up the road it's only about 45 minutes from where uh Columbia is so getting the homegrown talent the top homegrown talent to stay at South Carolina that's a big win for that program in that university so he you know he came in as a defensive tackle and Connor I think that's where I really want to start the conversation because he played two years at South Carolina, mainly as an edge rusher, but sort of this tweener edge rusher type of a player. He was like, okay, well, is he going to play as a heavy-handed 4-3 defensive end for us?

Is he going to be more of a three-technique defensive tackle for us? Because he was labeled as a defensive tackle in his recruiting profile. And I think those two years he played sort of sparingly only got one start. It was that bowl game, his final year that he was at South Carolina because in the 2020, uh, oh, sorry, excuse me. Then he played one more year. He did have one year as a full-time starter for South Carolina in 2023. Then he transfers over to Oregon last two years. He's been a full-time starter for Oregon, but Dean landing talked about this. I remember reading this this summer, praising Burch for really just getting his body composition right.

And you can tell this year he looks not just more explosive, but he looks quicker. He looks more in control. He looks like his core strength is very developed. And before it looked like he was a little bit sloppy and out of control in his movements, like he was carrying a little bit too much weight. Not anymore. He looks very, very well put together right now.

I'm extremely curious as to what his official measurements are going to be. I have the summer ones. Well, okay. Here's the thing. So did I. But now I've seen people say no no it's verified and it's different because okay the summer one is the summer one that you had that he's 6'6 280 so jim naggy tweeted out like three months ago that birch is verified was like barely over six four and 290. verified verified yeah that would be that would be a Scout going in and get it but that would be more reliable than that's what I think sheets that we have but so I don't I'm like but the sheet that we had gotten during

the summer it's like okay these are supposed to be sort of verified numbers from from the spring so i'm very curious because you know you can look at his profile and i actually think that him being listed a shade over six foot four is closer to what i'm seeing on tape because i don't think he's got this crazy length that six foot six would indicate yeah like the vines for i think he's a little bit shorter than that so i i believe this the right around six foot four just over six foot six would indicate. Yeah, like the vines. I think he's a little bit shorter than that. So I believe the right around six foot four, just over six foot four measurables. But the 290, he's huge. Like he's got legs that are just the size of an oak tree. But if he's built the way he is right now and he's scaling at 290, that is one dense dude.

Because he doesn't look like he's carrying any extra weight. If you told me that Jordan Burch was 270, 275, I'd probably believe you. 290's huge. And he looks like he carries it really well now. So the measurable part of this I think is very interesting because you're going to hear a lot of people when they talk about Jordan Burch until we get those final verification numbers on him at the senior bowl they're going to talk about him and you might hear people say like well he's got these long vines for arms he's listed as six foot six and I don't really see that kind of a player on tape so

I was already kind of questioning it when I was watching it not that he's short in any way shape or form but he's just not that six foot6", major outlier, difference maker of somebody when it comes to height and length. Anyways, that's sort of the intro for him. A really good season this past year, even through missing a couple of games due to injury. What did you think about Jordan Burch? You had him a little bit higher than I did.

I was really impressed just with the improvements he made. This is one of the stories of, hey, go back to to school even though you could have been an nfl player this year and get better and like you said trevor tailor your body more towards an nfl body and improve on your quickness and it's it's funny you could really even see it like it's you just look at pictures of him when he got to south carolina versus what he is now i, obviously the work has been put in. He finishes 2024 with eight and a half sacks. That's by far a career high. He had a 15.7% pass rush win rate.

Just a great size and mass for the position. He could stand up even at that size. He could play with his hand in the dirt. He missed four games and his production went up this year. I think he got big. he's got big hands. Like when he throws his hands, there's knockback power. It's kind of the jolt to blockers. He's clearly got very heavy, big hands, those heavyweight hands that, you know, just throw blockers off balance.

And it's good to see him working some moves this year. I kind of felt like last year I'd watch him play and it's like, okay, big guy, you know, hold the point of attack, work your way into the pocket. If, if you, if you know you, the F there's a coverage sack this year, I saw the long arm. I saw a two hand swipe. And when you have big hands and power, like this guy has in strength, the two hands swipe in the long arm hit a little different. Like when you hit that long arm the right way, it knocks you back. When you hit the two-hand swipe,

you can't adjust your hands back up. His size enables him to play up and down the line of scrimmage for Oregon. Maybe at the NFL level, he'll settle into a more defined role. But it's cool to see guys get different opportunities at the college level and never look out of place. I brought up how Jha Joyner. Jha Joyner, when he's standing up as a pass rusher in a wider alignment, looks the part. When they put him with his hand in the dirt more towards a four-eye, it wasn't his home. It wasn't comfortable for him. I didn't think Birch ever really looked

out of place. Now, the pass rush plan to me is still heavily focused on power, but it is- He's just being an athlete. And being an athlete. That's what i noticed is like the balls getting snapped shout out to owen reese who was telling me that i'm not allowed to say when the ball gets hiked anymore because uh he was gonna freak out about it which is really funny when i actually want to feel like i say it like that but when the ball is snapped shout out owen shout out the shrine bowl i think he is deciding what he wants to do after the fact.

Like he goes like, all right, all right, all right, all right. I'm going to get by, I'm going to get by this guy. And then the ball is snapped and he gets a couple of steps into it. And then he sort of decides, all right, I'm going to hit him with the two handed swipe. All right. I'm going to hit him with the long arm. All right. Because the reason, and the reason why I think that is because there's too many reps where he's

too talented to just run into blockers the way that he does. Right. If this dude focused more on staying clean, if he had a little bit more of a plan, at least this is what it appears from my vantage point. Of course, I'm just talking for somebody who's watching the film. If he went into it with a little bit more of an anticipation, a little bit more of a definitive plan, dude, I think this guy could win cleanly a lot lot more and i think that there's a lot more in the tank for him to continue to play well but i i just wanted to agree say i agree i saw him um in need of a little bit more of a passers plan when he approached things i think he's a day two pick right now and i i would have thought he's a day three guy all the way coming out of summer and this last year's tape and it's kind of a slow

build up for him. I think he took the proper steps to play his way into day two. And I think NFL coaches will really like him. So he ends up at edge 11 for me. So, you know, who he reminds me of is Matthew Judon. He's bigger than Matthew Judon. Yeah, he's bigger. He's definitely bigger than Matthew Judon.

But Judon wins as sort of being this really difficult player to stay in front of. And when I've watched a lot of Matthew Judon, he's not necessarily winning with all these passers moves. He's kind of just winning, being a really good athlete, being a little bit savvy in his moves, but not necessarily like hitting all of these different passers moves to kill you. He's just really being a uniquely gifted player at at some good size has a lot of production that in that regard i also think that judan is the king and i don't really say this is an insult i don't i think he is the king at being a looper on stunts and twists and getting sacks that way i think jordan birch can be that exact sort of player where you're running a lot of crashing and looping stunts, and he ends up being somebody who can really turn the corner for you, come up the middle of the A-gap or the B-gap with a ton of momentum and be able to get home.

That's a big part of what Judon does to rack up the sacks, and I think that Jordan Burch can do something like that. So stylistically, I know he is bigger than Matthew Judon is, but stylistically how he gets home, I felt like was very Junon-esque. So I agree with you. I think that this is a player who's exciting now and in my opinion is absolutely a day two pick. Where did you have Josiah Stewart from Michigan? I had him at 10. Okay, so you do have him a little bit higher.

So I have him at 15 and there are parts of his game that I wanted to put him higher on this list yeah to me he he kind of lacks some precision in his hands and how he really goes about being a true pass rusher but if you can look by that and if you could say to yourself I can teach him some of these hand moves I can teach him to be a little bit more precise with this hand because there are times when I watched him try to attempt like a cross chop or even like a two-handed swipe or like a chop and a rip where he's just he doesn't really know how to throw it yet like he'll like

he'll go for a cross chop and it'll be more of like a like a cross rip but he'll like miss the the hands and so I go okay well you didn't exactly help yourself outside of just being really athletic to get across the face of the blocker you didn't really execute the move the way you needed to and there are some times when I'll watch him try to do like a chop rip but again again, he sort of just misses part of it. And then he kind of exposes his side or his chest to be mirrored and blocked up a little bit more. But if we hone in on the hand usage, God damn,

this guy's fun as hell. I talked about some of those smaller linemen, the David Walkers, Josiah Stewart, Ashton Jalati, Kyman Rucker. This is the guy, in my opinion, if you're gonna

take a chance on a smaller rusher in this class this dude's actually got the juice for you so played at Michigan started at Coastal Carolina he's a senior this season six foot one 245 pounds but he seems like he's a rocked up 245 so he seems like he's got some density there to him uh obviously from his size I think he's more of that up 245. So he seems like he's got some density there to him. Obviously from his size, I think he's more of that three, four outside linebacker type of a player than a hand in the dirt defensive end. But you ended up having him at number 10.

I have him at number 15, but clearly I'm somebody who wants to buy in on him a little bit more. Did you see those limitations from him as well? Or are you kind of all in on what this guy could be at the NFL level? Of course I did, but you have to you have to pick your spots with small players in every draft that's something i've really spoken about on this podcast now for a couple years like you can't just if you have all these undersized guys in your top 75 you'll miss more than you hit but every now and then there's going to be somebody that you think breaks the mold because of the way they play the movement skills Josiah Stewart in this class like

you just said Trevor is the guy I'm picking because I have him higher than Ezeraku I have him higher than David Walker I have him higher than Kamen Rucker. There will be some other guys as well. Stewart, to me, plays so fast. And that's the key. The play speed is just it jumps out at you. I mean, 99th percentile pass rush win rate this year. He gets off

the ball. He's got plus pursuit speed. He can turn the corner really tight. He slips by blockers by ducking his shoulder uh i thought he was tougher against the run than you'd expect totally and that's that's why i say like he's like a rocked up 245 i was like this guy he'll he'll cop you he really will right every now and then you get a middleweight that steps into the big boy arena and they do not give a fuck and that's kind of that's kind of his attitude and you're right on that yeah it's not perfect with the hand usage but i think part

of that is just the play speed he has that he gets away with it at times the effort by the way is an a plus like this is an a plus effort player um really crazy 12 and a half sacks as a true freshman in 2021 for coastal carolina like he burst on the scene and and was a force and then when he transferred up to michigan this year you know he's been there for two years but he had eight and a half sacks this year um they use him in a very defined role that allows him to wreak havoc but you know born in the bronx um so he's got a little new york in him i know he played high school ball in massachusetts but you know, born in the Bronx. Um, so he's got a little New York in him. I know he played high school ball in Massachusetts, but you know, this is someone that my concerns were that he didn't get a lot going against

the Oregon tackles. And I have a lot of respect for those guys. Their potential at the NFL, specifically Connerly, but Cornelius is an NFL prospect, of course. And 19th percentile, miss tackle percentage. Like he's playing so fast that he misses a lot of course, and 19th percentile missed tackle percentage.

Like he's playing so fast that he misses a lot of tackles and loses his balance. And then this was something I tracked just from an eye test rather than just going in and trying to do it with our data. All of his 2024 sacks to me, besides one against Northwestern, came off of an outside speed rush. The one against Northwestern was a bull rush. But all other of the, what did he have? Eight and a half, so seven and a half was just with speed. But when I watched him, I'm like,

can this guy be an inch shorter, Nick Benito? Like, can he do it? And I'm like, I think there's a world where he can like benito when he tested was 6 3 248 he had 12th percentile arm length 16th percentile hand size but his 40 yard dash was 96 percentile his 10 yard split was 87th percentile his vertical jump was 80th percentile his 20 yard shuttle was 88th percentile so like bonito is somebody that's been really good in the nfl especially this year where he had double digit sacks which is just wild in that denver front but he plays fast and he plays more violent than his

size indicates and i'm willing to bet on stewart if you understand the role you need to play him in at the NFL level as a stand-up designated pass rusher that's going to hopefully develop into a little bit more over time. But man, he's got that closer mentality to me. I have a... I was very... The reason why I specifically brought up Josiah Stewart

is because I wanted to talk about him, whether you had him in your top 10 a little bit higher or not. Obviously, I love that you have him at number 10 the player that i see when i watch josiah stewart is uchenna nuosu now he had some length though i think right or no no so he didn't have length okay and the reason why i like the uchenna nuosu comp for jos Josiah Stewart is I wonder if Josiah Stewart is actually better suited being an off-ball on-ball like hybrid like a true like a true sort of linebacker type of player not just a linebacker that's always on the edge because that's what remember Nwosu was a explosive yeah high effort tough to stay in front of,

undersized edge rusher when he was at USC. Goes over to, he plays for the Chargers first, and then he has some really good years in Seattle, battling through injury over the last couple of years. But he plays that hybrid off-ball, on-ball type of role for Seattle when he has been used his best and I actually think that that's the best home for Josiah Stewart because I look at him and I go that could get the most out of his strength because he also can flip the hips a little bit like he can flip the hips

he can drop into coverage a little bit he can pursue left and right like all that stuff is in the cards for him so giving him a little bit more off-ball linebacker responsibilities, allowing him to be an A-gap and B-gap blitzer, just screaming at you full speed, running into running backs, trying to block and protection. I envision a really successful role for Stewart if you play him like you did Uchenna Nwosu. And Nwosu, mock draftable as measurements, just over 6'2", so maybe a little bit taller than josiah

stewart but not significantly nuosu was about 250 pounds i think josiah stewart's right around 245 and then the wingspan for nuosu was just 16th percentile now the arm length was 53rd which is pretty good for that size by the way it is it is like 33 and five eights you won't really get flagged at the nfl level for that right so he has a little bit longer arms and i think stewart's gonna have but again i think stylistically you know the 40 yard dash was 82nd percentile the broad jump was 67th percentile like he was a pretty good athlete surprisingly the vertical jumps a little bit lower which i thought it wouldn't have been because he's an explosive player that's the role that i see for josiah stewart is is can he be this uchenna nuosu type

of a player for you and i think that's the bet that i would want to make if i'm making it on one of these smaller guys i didn't mention donovan azaraku because i like him a lot and we'll get to him in a little bit i had him 12th i had him higher um the thing that worries me the most about Stewart, you pointed out, a lot of his success does come from just those outside speed rushes, especially when it comes to getting into the backfield. The three NFL caliber teams with NFL caliber offensive lines that he went against,

the three best ones, Texas, Oregon, Ohio State. Those were his three lowest pass rush games that he had this season. So it's just something that you have to think about when you think about a player like this. But I agree with you. He is a fun player to bet on. And if I'm betting on one of those smaller guys, I'm betting on Josiah Stewart.

Well, it sounds like you're betting on Ezeraku, actually. If you, I think Ezeraku. I don't even think he's 245 i'm not here's the thing i'm not worried about him as a full-time 3-4 outside linebacker edge rusher some of these other guys like gelati's got these side these length limitations i think the same with josiah stewart i think he's a little bit more of an off-ball linebacker kaiman rucker i'm a little bit worried about in that regard david walker I'm worried about in that regard I love Ezraku man um hey where'd you where'd you have him you had him at 12 12 let's just talk about him now I've talked

about everybody else that I mentioned already so okay you've got him at 12 I have him at 8 I okay it's not like egregious I thought you're gonna have him at like 4 yeah I got him at one over Abdul Carter. So, no, Ezeraku, edge rusher from Boston College. He's a senior this year. He's listed at 6'2", 247 pounds. You think he's what, 240? Is that what you think he is?

The spring listing was 236. I think he's heavier than that on film. I'd say 240. Okay, so somewhere around 240. So, you know, obviously these are lower percentiles. We're talking about probably 10th percentile in height. It'll be single-digit percentile. It'll probably be like if he's 240 pounds,

that'll be like 5th percentile when it comes to weight. So definitely some weight concerns there with him. But, God, this player is so much much fun three-star outside linebacker recruit from uh Williamstown New Jersey played basically every sport growing up played soccer played basketball played baseball um played football obviously I read that so how about so get this he sat his parents down when he was 10 years old and had a his parents tell the story that he had like an adult conversation with him. He's like, mom, dad, I know what I want to do with my life. And I'm like, oh,

what do you want to do? You know, you want to be a doctor. You want to be a lawyer. Like, what do you want to do? And he's like, I'm going to play football for a living. And they're like, all right, well, maybe not. We might need to have like a contingency plan a little bit here but he said that he wanted to play football for a living he's sort of been on that journey ever since he actually started his high school career as a wide receiver he wanted to be a wide receiver make it to the NFL but he wasn't getting a ton of playing time when he was a freshman and sophomore as a wide receiver so when they switched him over to the defensive side of the football he was actually kind of pissed he hated it he was like damn I want to be a wide receiver what am I doing

on defense and instead he played linebacker and defensive end for them and ended up getting a lot of offers, including from Boston College. So he played sparingly his first couple of years when he was at BC, started all 13 games last year. And then this past year, sorry, actually, the first two years, he sort of played sparingly. He ended up getting eight and a half sacks his sophomore season his junior season his first year as a full-time starter he only got two sacks

and he got back in the lab because he was pissed off in this past year he tied Harold Landry with 16 and a half sacks for the most in a single season in Boston College history and he is second only to Matthias Kiwanuka on the all-time sack list there for BC. To me, he brings so much to the table. If you can look past some of those size and length limitations, played over 1,300 snaps, which I already mentioned is a lot, had a 91.5 pass rushing grade on true pass sets, 16.5% pass rush win percentage,

86.5% run defense grade, and a 9.6% run stopping percentage, which just to let you guys know is 94th percentile in how well he attacks the run. This is somebody who is smart. He is cerebral. He understands how to approach the game. He respects what offensive linemen are able to do against him. He understands what they do very well he tries to use that against him with his gifts i think he's got really nice bend as somebody who can execute yeah i mean it's the arm over the cross chop i mean like there is a rep i know the

rep in fact i know the rep you guys want to go watch it you can't exactly three minutes ago in the second quarter against Florida State this season. He hits a cross chop so clean, it made me just sit back in my chair. I went back and I watched this rep at least 10 times from the broadcast angle, from the sideline angle, from the end zone angle. I mean, he hits this about as clean as you could possibly hit it, and you can tell that that's not

just a combination of somebody who's got the athletic ability and the length to be able to do it this is somebody who has been in the lab he has worked on this move time and time again tirelessly and you see that with how he approaches his his two-handed swipes with his club rips with his club arm overs the speed the precision the timing in which he hits these moves are all fantastic. He just approaches the game in such a smart way. If I'm going to bet on one of these smaller guys, and I'm putting him into this group with the Josiah Stewart and Jaladi and Kamen Rucker and all these guys, give me Azaraku.

Because of just the body of work that he has had over the last three years in particular, and specifically how he was able to bounce back last season to be an elite difference maker this year i just love how this guy approaches the game he is so smooth in what he does three four outside linebacker give me as raku and i think he'll be a great addition to your nfl team, I think as a designated stand-up rusher, because of his size, he could be really effective in that role. Just the way he plays in space and isolation, the Euro step, he constantly creates these advantageous angles with it to get to the outside. You mentioned the dip, the arm over. He plays very skinny through the bend is you know you either got it or you don't and he's got it that's a key he's got it my questions are i saw tackles that had better

length stall them out because he likes playing in so much isolation in space and the way you counter that as a tackle is if you have length you obviously could protect the larger radius in those scenarios and i thought i saw could protect the larger radius in those scenarios and I thought I saw him get stalled out in those scenarios a little bit and then this is one where like maybe I'm just wrong and maybe the combine will shut me up or seeing him it's amazing all of these guys that we're talking about undersized guys they're all senior bowl accepted invites as a roku Josiah Stewart David Walker that's, that's really awesome for everybody in the draft community. I don't think he's as fast as I expected.

Trevor. He's yeah. Like two 36 says two 40 says two 44. I would think like four six ish. I don't think he is. I don't think he's that fast i think he's really slick like bendy pliable all these short area moves but when it came time to really run and chase i was like wow he's not that fast at that point and you almost have to be so that's one

thing where i really like seeing him in person and watching him run. I'll get a better clarification on that. I think that he does have some physical limitations. I just love how smooth he is, how precise he is, and again, how he approaches the game as a passenger. But there's no doubt about it. I have speed to power concerns.

He's not somebody who's nothing who's going to explode off it now i think he's a solid run defender because of his technique you know you get the hands up you always have leverage you're able to sort of stand your ground a little bit you can stack and shed you can get between gaps you might be able to be a good run defender that way which i think he is but if you're asking him to go pound for pound against nfo offensive linemen on a consistent basis yeah i i think that you're going to to go pound for pound against NFL offensive linemen on a consistent basis, yeah, I think that you're going to be a little bit disappointed. That's a tough ask.

The way that he approaches the game, I feel as though he's not going to put himself in those situations more often than not. The early comp that I had from him, you remember Christian Miller before he went through all of his injuries at Alabama? I mean, this dude had the arm length. He could bend. He was a speedy guy. Now, I think he had a little bit better of a first step than Ezraku did. I think he was a little bit more explosive in that regard. But he had that bend, and that's really how he won. And I feel like Ezraku wins in a similar weight profile.

Matt Holder, who does a great job building out scouting reports for Bleacher Report, I saw him have this comp, which also like is nick herbig and herbig is somebody who pittsburgh has put in the perfect situation to say hey we're not going to make you go through somebody's chest we're not going to make you hold the line of scrimmage as a five tech defensive defensive end we are going to let you be a stand up six technique seven technique whatever it is stand up outside rusher and we are going to let you be a stand up six technique, seven technique, whatever it is, stand up outside rusher. And we're going to let you attack the outside shoulder or maybe the inside shoulder with isolation one-on-one against these guys to try to stay super clean. And Herbig's had elite pass rushing grades this past year in multiple occasions. So that's kind of the player where i go dude even if ezraku is like just

that great give me that player like 30 of snaps but like a really productive 30 an extremely productive stand-up outside linebacker pass rusher for you like nascar package i am great with that because let me what was her bigs what did her big run let me look because i did stylistically i really like the comp yeah i do too i mean size wise so her big it was four six five just over six foot two 240 pounds with 31 and a fourth inch arm so i think that's probably the comp i think as roku's got longer arms but the 40 yard dash four six five right there i mean i i think i think matt nailed it with this comp so shout out to matt for that um again i came up with christian miller early on but i think i actually liked her big comp better so shout out to matt for that one but

yeah man big fan of esaraku that 10 yard will be key because her big did have a 70th percentile 10 yard split which is such a key metric for edge rushers as a rock as a rock who really needs to have that he really does so all right so 10 uh 10 to 6 so uh i don't even think i did we miss anyone for you so 15 for me was josiah stewart 14 was kyle canard 13 was jordan birch 12 was jt2 in the low out and 11 was prince liam on me ellen i. I'm higher on both of your last guys. Okay. But we could talk Prince Lee first if you want. Sure.

I had him at seven. Okay. So, I mean, you had him at seven. Go ahead. I had him at 11. I'll read. I think I should read. Well, no.

I can read it after this. So, Prince Lee I have at seven. He is Ole Miss. Richard Sr. Yeah, Ole Miss, Richard Sr. That transferred from Florida. 6'3 and 3 quarters, 258. He is a hell of a watch because he's long.

He's loose. There's a lot going on here with this player he had 10 and a half sacks this year 16 quarterback hits 29 hurries he had almost a 24 percent pass rush win rate like and on third downs his win rate was 27.5 percent this year i mean he he could rush the passer man he's your worst nightmare on third and long on a deep drop i think he i think he single-handedly forced george's earnest green to go back to school i like he i mean he is earnest green's nightmare though when you think about the type of player that earn a screen is if you have heavy feet you're doomed against princely with monty allen yeah and that game i And that game, I, that game was, it was a reckoning.

It was, it was actually jarring that they didn't just park Oscar Delp or somebody next to green the rest of the game after like two reps where you're like, this isn't, this isn't like you got to help the guy. Anyway, looks as best as a standup rusher speed off the edge length quickness. I'm actually shocked from some wider alignments.

There's flashes of speed to power. Like I didn't think that'd be a part of his game, but there are moments where he shows, no, I'm not just a finesse rusher. I can convert speed to power. He loves the Euro step because once again, like as a Raku, that create, when you fake that step deep into the gap

and the tackle bites, the angle you create to the outside shoulder is so much leaner and if you are loose and can dip and you have good ankle flexion and you could turn a tight corner it's like somebody it's like having an inch of the door and then when you use the rocker step or the euro step it's like the door becomes four feet open instead so and you can kind of sliver through there you know what against the run he's got these long strides and there's instincts i'm not going to sit here and tell you he's going to set some crazy hard edge all the time but there's instincts against the run to disrupt plays in the backfield and i mean this is a 98th percentile pass rush win rate guy like he was one of the best in the country at just getting after the quarterback and he played in the SEC it's not like he's

racking up these these great analytical profiles while you know roasting poor competition the things I want to see more of is I think he's still learning how to utilize his length to counter during reps like if he learns how to utilize that length to get off blocks consistently and get away from the first move and develop a second move, that's going to take him to the next level. I don't think he's a striker with his hands. He's more of a shooting guard. Okay. Let me dribble the ball as deep out as I can come with me. How am I going to angle my way around you spin around you i'm not going to just punch you in the chest over and over again and wear you out there's the speed to power flashes but it's not the plan it's not the 1a or 1b plan of his game so but man like i know there's like a

little recency here because he just had a really good year and he's a young player for the Jets. But there's a lot of Will McDonald in this guy's game where everybody looks around and they're like, I don't know. He's not this power rusher. And then you blink and your tackles on an island because you're down a touchdown and you got to play the drop back game. And it's like, we can't block this guy one on one. We cannot block him one on one. So Umami Allen, like he's got all the tools and traits and tricks he does i i'd like to see a little bit more sandpaper in his game

but i i liked him trevor i really did i i think he's got the pass rush juice i totally understand you being higher on him because if you or anybody out there um predicates how you stack up edge rushers with twitchiness explosiveness yeah that's the end of the game i mean like that's that's this dude now i think that if princely doesn't win with the first step or the bend um it's hard for him to get off of blocks he doesn't have he doesn't have a lot of counters he really stalls out the speed to power i'm i'm not i was not super impressed with from his tape as a whole it really is like either he hits that euro step the cross the cross face um or just like getting to the outside whatever it is either he wins with finesse and twitch immediately and it's just one

of the sickest reps you've ever seen. Right. Or he doesn't really win the rep. He might be Keon Coleman of edge players. Ooh, that's a good call out. Where like you log on YouTube and the algorithm's like top five sickest pass rush moves from Prince William Miellon this year, and you watch it and you're like, all right, I'm taking him top 25. Yeah, all right, he's going to Carolina at eight.

Yeah, but you watch the whole sample size, and you're just like, I don't know if he'll ever be a complete player, and he'll be a little scheme specific, which is why I ended up having six guys ahead of him. I talked about him like I thought he was the greatest player in the world, but I still had six guys ahead of him. I don't know. He's going to be a handful down in Mobile for any tackle one-on-one I'll tell you right now here's what I really want to see from him just clean up the hands and the feet

if you tell me that we've got that like I'm I'm good drafting you exactly where you're talking about drafting him because to me like we referenced before he launches off the back foot all the time um he's got i see a like a tap step and a false step even like a side step sometimes like too many times when he's just trying to get up the field his feet can also be like not pointed in the backfield or not pointed to the ball like sometimes they're very like open and obtuse and he's like basketball moves and he's like and he's like launching off of his foot like that which isn't really engaging the quad muscle the way that you need to and so I feel like his footwork is erratic and all over the place and I think the same with his hands like I think that he's super fast with his hands but the reason why it's very difficult for him to get

off of blocks is because his hands aren't going exactly where they need to and then once offensive linemen get their hands on him, well, then he's trying to counter, he's trying to get off and he's not able to do it. So if you tell me that it's a guarantee, we're cleaning up his hands and his feet. Absolutely. Top eight pass rusher,

top five pass rusher, probably in this class. But to me, I agree with you. There were too many inconsistencies from him. And it's, it's why I ended up having him at 11. Maybe we go down to,

cause he's at the senior bowl, isn't he? Yep. Think so. Like maybe we go down to the senior bowl and maybe his movement skills are just so damn different than everybody down there that I go, okay, well I'm,

I got to elevate them a little bit more. I got to knock, I got to bump up some of the numbers that I have within the formula of kind of how I spit things out for these early rankings, but an inconsistent player, but a damn impressive one when it comes to flashes. So I absolutely understand anybody buying into him. JT Tuimaloa from Ohio State's next guy I want to talk about. I have him at 12. Where do you have JT at?

I have him at five. Whoa, okay, so you got him at five. So this is, I wonder where he's going to be more commonly for rankings. Senior at Ohio State, a former five-star edge rusher in the 2021 recruiting class, number four player in the country, number two defensive lineman in the country at that point in time, and the 24th highest ranked player that 247 has ever had. Listed at 6'4", 270 pounds, so he brings the size that you want for an edge rusher from Ohio State. Has been lower when it's come to like, you know, explosive plays. I think this year was certainly better from him overall to your sample size, almost 1300 snaps. He'll get over 1300 snaps

when they play in the national championship game next week. 12.9 passers win percentage, which is 53rd percentile, 6.4% run-stop rate, which is 47th percentile. I'm curious. You've got him at number five. This guy's got an extensive basketball background as well. Almost went to play D1 in the FBS level in basketball. He had scholarship offers from Washington, Oregon, to play as a power forward, I believe.

Or maybe it was a small forward. I can't remember what the offer was exactly. He played guard power forward center in high school. Because, of course, he's JT2 the offer was exactly. He played like guard power forward center in high school. Cause of course he's JT to him. You're going to play him everywhere in high school. Imagine me and you going up against JT to him. We're just trying to have some fun. We'll afterschool activity,

just trying to play a little basketball throughout our high school career. And we're just getting absolutely fucking yammed on by JT to him. I want to sway to Ohio state to play the sport that he's better at. That isn't even basketball. Just getting teabagged in pickup basketball. It's like, what am I supposed to do, man? Just getting put on a YouTube highlight reel within the first five seconds. I am not stepping in and taking a charge against JT Tuimaloa.

Just take the points, bro. I want to go home and enjoy my life. So you got him at five. I got him at 12. Talk to me about why you have him so high and what you like about him he really grew on me because i looked back at my summer rankings i had um i think ninth and i i just watched him over summer and i'm like i get it he was a five star i get he does all the little things right but I just looked at him and I'm like man

he's such a boring player like there's just not a lot of this creativity in his pass rush plan he's not going to really be this insanely agile kind of loose rusher and then you know there was a lot of like effort sacks but I watch him this year and he's just grown on me over time he's got these heavy hands he constantly brings a jolt he wears out offensive linemen him and sawyer love that two-handed swipe like they were coached up and so refined their two-handed swipe the thing is to him a low out where you watch him like he's battle tested he's gone up against Olu Fashinu he's gone up against Joe Alt he went up against high-end tackles this year he he just puts on his hard hat against the run unlike really maybe any other player in this draft and like I'll say

right now I haven't met five in five years willui Maloow be getting the same publicity that, you know, Abdul Carter and all these sack artists get? No. Will he be a core player of an NFL defense because he's so damn reliable up front. He's really stout against the run. He brings power and effort as a pass rusher.

He's very smart. He's like, this is the King cliche. He's a, like, this is the King cliche. He's a winning player. This is a winning player. This is what a winning player at every level looks like where he's, he's got the size. He's got the mindset. He's over six, four. He's probably going to play at 270 pounds. When you watch him 91st percentile run defense grade in 2024, by the way, and it's not just how strong he is, his eyes up awareness.

He knows what the offense is trying to do. Like he understands different run concepts and how the blockers are trying to attack him. And when it's a, you watch him at the goal line, I haven't seen a player in this class like this at the goal line. It's like he takes the end zone. It's his personal real estate. Totally different animal at the goal line, It's like he takes the end zone. It's his personal real estate, totally different animal at the goal line where he's just wrecking people in front of him at the goal line and finding a way he goes from like, okay, between the twenties, I'm responsible.

I'm going to hold the point of attack. I'm going to read and react at the goal line. It's I'm going to disrupt. I'm going to let loose. I have a different gear that now I'm allowed to play this way. So, and I just think his power profile is, is he going to be the guy that wins in two and a half seconds all the time? That's not who he's going to be, right? It's not, but it seems his power profile going to compliment on the other side of a more finesse, loose attacking rusher. Perfectly. You have to have guys like this on an nfl defense you can't just build it out with the princely's and the josiah stewart's right and i brought up will mcdonald before who i love but you need the hard hat guys that have a power profile that translates against any level of competition and tui maloow is exactly that guy and there is some times where it's like

okay he spun off that but he had a spin move against iowa that i almost spit out my drink he it was like not really pretty but it worked and he rolled into the quarterback and i think sawyer got on the stat sheet for a little bit it's the funniest play probably this entire you just described a not good play i thought you were about to describe like the sickest spin move of all time no but it's like a white freeney it goes back to like trying things and it didn't work because the tackle was like what the hell is this i thought you were so you got number five because he tries no no no i'm just kidding no this is but this is somebody that is this is what an nfl player looks like and it's not always just having 12 sacks every year you and then this league right now look at the team is left in the in the playoff right now of how they run the football these are the kind of guys you need and i think that he has enough

pass rush power more so than guys i have behind him with that kind of separated the gap because there's good run defenders in this group but he has the build and the resume and enough pass rush juice just enough that i had him at five. He reminds me of Quiddy Pay. He's a little, I think he's a little bigger than Quiddy Pay, a little bit longer than Quiddy Pay, but he reminds me so much more refined.

Like Quiddy, I just look at it like there's so much athleeting with him. Like Tuimi Loao, I think has been, like Tuimi Loao, I could actually play in an NFL game today in some kind of role.

That's how I felt about watching him. I think so too. And maybe, maybe I'm not, I think JT to him law is going to be fascinating with where people have him rank. Cause if you respect the floor more than anything else, you're going to have them a lot higher because his bust rate,

in my opinion is just, it's so low. This is, this guy's going to play in the NFL. It's just a matter of where he's going to play. And I'm excited to get the team centric, big boards. When we do that over at PFF this off season, because I think to him alone, I was going to be a player who can rise up a lot of these team centric big boards as that

four, three heavy handed defensive end. I just felt as though the burst is limited. The bend is limited. Yeah. He's not twitchy. I just don't think he's ever going to be like a guy who can really consistently attack on the outside shoulder. And then at that point, I just go, all right, well, he's a guy that maybe every team would want. But I don't know. Maybe I'm just – perhaps I am devaluing the floor that he brings to the position. But I just didn't see a player who was ever going to be a special pass rusher at the NFL level. I felt like he had a good amount of cleanup sacks throughout his college career. And even then, I feel like there's just not a lot of sacks in his game. So that's why I just, maybe I'm a product of putting some

of these flashier guys above him, but that's how I had JT at number 12. So what was your 10 to 6? So 10 to 6 for me, I have Jalen Walker from Georgia at 10, which I do want to talk about here for a second. Landon Jackson, I have from arkansas i have him at number nine i mentioned i got donovan as a rock who at number eight number seven i have nick squarton from texas a&m and number six i have jack sawyer from ohio state so okay i'll read mine quickly before you go i kind of forgot to uh ten for me i I already said Josiah Stewart from Michigan. 9 for me is Mike Hill Williams from Georgia. 8 for me is Landon Jackson, who you just said, from Arkansas.

7, I had already said, it's Prince Lee Umanmielin from Ole Miss. 6 for me was Jack Sawyer right behind his teammate JT Tuomelo out. Jalen Walker, I thought I was going to evaluate as an edge rusher. I'm going to evaluate him during the linebacker show. So I agree with you. So I have Jalen Walker at number 10. And for the longest time, I thought to myself, all right, we're George's playing him as an off-ball linebacker.

You know, he's 6'2", 245 pounds, but he is somebody who shows a lot of power, shows a lot of density, certainly does his best work as a pass rusher, but it felt like George's just had him as an off-ball linebacker because, one, it behooved their depth chart to be able to put him on the field as an off-ball linebacker, and two, maybe it was just they were trying to round out his profile. But when I watched him, it felt like his best reps were when he was attacking the pocket,

when he was used as a pass rusher, and when they would put him on the edge on occasion. So I said to myself, okay, well, well i'm gonna watch him for the edge rush episode i did not like him nearly as much as i thought i was going to for an edge rusher i i don't think that he is a full-time edge rush player um he doesn't have he doesn't really have any sort of a pass rush plan he kind of just wins by bull rushing right now. Now, the strengths, he's a great athlete. I mean, I can understand why people want him on their football team.

He's got the size to be able to play as an off-ball and on-ball linebacker, first-step explosiveness in all directions, really powerful upper body. He's got longer arms than a guy who would be listed at 6 six foot two but when it comes to the weaknesses here for him doesn't have a lot of experience or success in coverage so if you want to play him as just a true off-ball linebacker you need to make sure that he's dedicated to that because he doesn't have a ton of coverage responsibilities where he has a lot of reps where you go okay that's a really great coverage rep he lacks some quickness needed for off-ball linebacker work like i think he's a little bit too heavy for off-ball linebacker work you know he's explosive but is he nimble i wouldn't call

him nimble and you kind of need to have that when you're playing at the second level lacks true mastery of any pass rush moves hand usage due to his time split as an off-ball and an on-ball linebacker i feel like the instincts the anticipation are still a work in progress but um he is just a true junior so that's understandable with him sort of playing in multiple positions and being in the lineup just over the last two years as an underclassman and then in my opinion he's just too comfortable with like running into blockers like that's what he does like he's a passer who just runs into blockers right now he reminds me of Devin White and Devin White was taken fifth overall by the Buccaneers but you know I guess they don't win that Super Bowl without him so you can't say that it wasn't

worth a weird one right just have him on the team but he clearly was not worth that type of a selection and you've seen that since that Super Bowl season for the Buccaneers how the rest of his career played out in Tampa and then he thought he was getting this mega deal. He ends up signing a one-year deal, and then he gets cut from that anyway. So I thought I was going to watch Jalen Walker and just see a player that I've got to have on my football team. Instead, there were too many times when I watched him and I went, man, is he kind of just this weird off-ball linebacker tweener

where his best reps are when he's blitzing in the A and B gap, but how often are you going to have him do that? I mean, that's not even necessarily a pass rush specialist type of a player. So I thought I was going to see much more of a 3-4 outside linebacker guy that I was just going to love to want to get on my team as that outside linebacker type. And I still think he's a really good, I think he's a good football player. He's a great athlete. Like I said, like his body is built for playing in the box at the NFL level.

I just came away from watching his film going, all right, well, what's his calling card? Like, where am I playing? Because in reality, I think that his best rushes come from being an off-ball linebacker that blitzes the line of scrimmage. When he's a true edge rusher, yeah, he can sometimes win the bull rush, but NFL offensive tackles, if you're just trying to bull rush NFL offensive tackles, you're not going to be nearly as productive as you need to be as a full-time edge rusher. And then I already mentioned, I think some of the anticipation instincts and coverage

aren't quite there for him. And I also think that where he is explosive explosive he's a little heavy-footed when it comes to flipping the hips and changing direction and and being nimble on his feet if you want him as a true off-ball linebacker right so a well-built explosive impressive physically gifted box defender but one who his fit in the nfl is going to be a lot more important than i thought it was going to be going into his film review so that's where i got him here at number 10 yeah i think it's totally justifiable like i said i'm gonna have him in our in my linebacker rankings just because it's a it's a long conversation that you started off

really well and i think you you the deeper and deeper you get into it, you're like, okay, maybe he's not just going to go into the NFL and, and play 70 to 80% of his snaps with his hand in the dirt, rushing off the edge. Right. Right.

What'd you think of Landon Jackson, Landon Jackson from, from Arkansas, the senior there, somebody who started his career out at LSU, played one year there, transferred over to Arkansas. He like Jordan Burch has sort of been retooling his body.

Now he weighs in at just over 6'5", 270 pounds, and it feels like, man, he is the best version of himself. You had him, I believe, at number eight. I had him at number nine, so we see him pretty similarly. What did you think of Landon Jackson? We talked about this over the summer. He tore his ACL in high school, and then he tore his ACL, or he had an ACL injury his freshman year at LSU.

So like a really delayed star. And now it's all kind of coming together for him this season, six and a half sacks, eight quarterback hits, 20 quarterback hurries, only 11.5% pass rush win rate. He's, um,

he's very big. He's got length. He's got density. He's kind of a maniac through contact. This is like true bowl in that China shop of where I'm just going to absolutely power through everything in front of me. Teams try to chip him or give help blocks, and he just doesn't care. He kind of treats it as like a toddler at times and runs through it like a maniac. We talked about this over summer.

He had a legit four-sack game against Alabama in 2023, and that's where the green light started to come on for him as a prospect. But there's times where I'm surprised with his build, how big he is, that he can corner a little bit. Yes. I'm like, how do you do this? He'll hit a cross chop sometimes, and you'll go, wait, what? What?

Very perplexing and very impressive. Thunderous hands, very big upper body. He really this year started to use his long arms to knock down passes, which was cool. Three batted passes this year. 95th percentile run defense grade. He is really good at stacking and shedding in the run game. Like he understands that, hey, I don't just have to work around all these blocks. I can take on the contact, discard you and either redirect the running back or find a way to make the play. So, you know, the, the pass rush win rate, it, it, um, it did go up on

true pass rush reps, 68th percentile. So not elite, but it was better in, in real scenarios, real rushing scenarios. Here's some of the things was better in real scenarios, real rushing scenarios. Here's some of the things with Landon Jackson where I have my concerns. And I still think there's a floor for him because of the power profile, specifically against the run. He has a very upright approach.

He does. It's a very upright approach. While he can corner into the pocket, when quarterbacks evade him, there's no way to like second effort like that's where you see the lack of short area agility that it's like oh he slipped around me now let me adjust and chase him it's like oh man like he got away from me and that's kind of it that's kind of the play because he's so big and he's so strong and he's got a big upper body so

it's not like let me stop flip my hips run the hoop it's there's not a lot of that there's a lot of pass rush plan attempts where it's like there's no plan the plan is i'm bigger and stronger and nastier than you and you better get out of my way and it works sometimes but it's got to get a little bit more um you know methodical at the nfl level i don't think he's very quick off the ball. He's got that lower body injury history that you, you know, you got to keep an eye on, but that was a while ago. So yeah, he's, I like the floor of Landon Jackson. Like I'd like him on my defensive line to play some early downs and be a heavy hitter. I just think he will, he's not a, you know, a true sack artist kind of guy. And that's where the limitations are from. And he's a little sluggish at times,

but man, does he bring the thunder? Like he really does. He has NFL starter written all over him. There's no denying that. I don't know if there's the upside that the guys ahead of him have, but it's still, it goes to show you the depth of this class that I have Landon Jackson at eight,

because I think somebody will take him in the second round and he'll play right away. I think that him and JT to him low, in my opinion, you're sort of the same conversation of when you're talking about drafting a guy. And I just, I like Jackson a little better because I think he's got a little bit of

extra bend ability. I, the cornering ability, I think is to his advantage. And I think he's got a little bit longer of arms. So I think that's a conversation between those two guys. And now that it looks like Jackson is sort of past those injuries, he's actually the guy that I would take,

especially coming off of this past year. Like in that mold? Yeah. I mean, in, in the mold of sort of like what you were saying, like you're drafting a high floor, versatile type of player.

And, and I think that JT to him alone, he could play a little inside out for you. Cause I can think he's got the overall size from it. But I even think that Jackson got a little bit longer arms. He's a little bit more versatile to play in an odd front as a 3-4 defensive end. He's got the arm length to get up into the passing lanes, like you said, for batting down passes.

He shows flashes at least of a little bit better cornering and bendability from. And so those are all the little things that I give him the advantage for of why I had him a little bit higher than Tui Maloa, but I think those guys are sort of in that same conversation. I think we should talk. Where do you have Mike Hill Williams? I have Mike Hill at four. Okay.

So you have him at nine, right? Yes. Because I think it's the combo we had a little bit. So I also think, so Georgia pass rusher Mike Hill Williams is a great place to talk about Mike Hill here. So he's a junior this year six foot five 265 pounds absolute vines for arms this dude is built so well for an edge rusher he's got the weight profile he's got the length profile he has the height profile he

is such a violent football player but he just doesn't have a ton of stats at georgia he was not a guy who was in the backfield consistently. Now, the first two years that he was getting on the field for them. Now, I will remind you, he was a five-star defensive lineman, and he was the number four player in the 2022 recruiting class. He was originally committed to USC before ends up flipping to Georgia. He started two of his first 15 games when he was a true freshman for Georgia he then played in 10 13 games with 10 starts last year and then he was a full-time starter this year when he was

out there and he was fully healthy he played like a lot of guys at Georgia that we've sort of been frustrated about over the years like Nolan Smith for example we watched Nolan Smith and we're like okay you're a 3-4 outside linebacker in the NFL. And Georgia was like, nope, you're playing 3-4 defensive end, buddy. Get your hands up there and defend the run. And Nolan Smith was such a freak that he was able to do it at a lower profile. So that was sort of the same thing with Mike Ellis. He's mainly been this like 4-I defensive end player for them. And they haven't really let him pin his ears back and get after the passer.

And so with that being the case, I mean, this dude's an elite run defender. 86.0 run defense grades. I mean, he is strong as an ox in run defense, but he just doesn't have a lot of pass rush chops. He had 11.2% pass rush win percentage, pass rush grades in the 70s. But ultimately, the reason why I have him at number four, and I think that I don't want to speak for you, it feels like I can understand why you're a little bit lower on him.

I really do. When he tells himself, like, all right, let me let loose here. I mean, the club arm over is one of the most quickest, violent club arm overs that you're going to see in this class and beyond. The hand, the pop that he has at contact when he gets his hands up there I mean the potential that this guy has is still incredibly high and even though he is not a clean pass rusher maybe I'm betting on him becoming one and he's just never going to become one but I went into his tape thinking I'm going to be lower on Michael Williams than most people in this class. And I came away thinking extremely

high floor player, versatile because of his build, versatile because of his strength. And when he lets himself show some pass rush moves, getting into the backfield, even if it's things that are as simple as a club and an arm over a club and a rip or something like that, maybe he doesn't have that cross chop. Maybe he doesn't have that ghost that. Maybe he doesn't have that cross chop. Maybe he doesn't have that ghost move. Maybe he doesn't have that dip and rip or bend around the corner, around the outside shoulder. I just think he's too damn talented

to not be drafting for a starting position in the pros. So I have him at number four. I get it. And a lot of people are going to. It's just with Mike Kel Williams, I think I just finally have a little fatigue of like, this guy's got all the potential in the world because now we watched it over summer and I just did not see a jump this year as a pass rusher make no mistake like Landon Jackson. Although I was a little higher on Jackson, Michael Williams has a serious power profile to defend the run. Like he can take on any contact.

He can hold the point of attack. He's hard to move. He's a pro caliber run defender. He just does not impact the game, rushing the passer. And if I'm taking a guy like that in the first round, that's just not negotiable for me it's not negotiable and I came away watching him and how he wins Trevor where you just nailed it like why wouldn't I rather have this guy on the interior defensive line playing at 285 pounds instead he already looks like he's 270 I mean we're not talking about a jarring difference. He's 6'5". He's got crazy length.

I don't see the fluidity, the looseness, the agility to be this impact edge rusher. And there's not a lot of refinement. Like, Tui Maloau isn't loose and twitchy, but he's creative with his hands and crafty with his hands. He stays off blocks and he drove people backwards more often than michael michael williams so i nine is is still strong in this class it's still a day like early day to pick but i i would really struggle to take this player in the first round and guarantee that this is going to be a plus impact type of player to me. Just to let everybody know,

we've unfortunately got a two-hour time limit here, so we're sort of speeding up with some of these guys here. I'll talk about the Texas A&M guys next. You got Nick Skorton, who I have at number seven, and then I have his teammate Shamar Stewart at number five Nick Skorton is was my edge one coming into this season and I was just I don't think there's any other way to say it like I was disappointed by him this year I thought the Purdue tape was awesome I mean this is somebody who is listed at six foot four I wonder if he's a little bit shorter than six foot four but 280 280 pounds. I mean, it felt like he had some good length,

some good size. This year, he just didn't play with that same tenacity. He didn't play with the wide variety of pass rush moves that he showcased the year before. I think I noticed that his stride length was a little bit shorter. So yeah, he's got a really nice first step, but it takes him a lot of steps to get even

and out beyond the outside shoulders with offensive tackles. The arm length appeared to be below average as well. outside shoulders with with offensive tackles the arm length appeared to be below average as well he played with a really high pad level this past year which I didn't think was the case at Purdue but it was the case when he was at Texas A&M um he consistently you know him and Shamar Stewart I wish they both didn't do this but they consistently launch off the back foot they're not doing themselves any favors by loading launching off of that front foot he wasn't as violent in the run game as I feel like he could have been. Like I saw him be when

he was at Purdue. He just felt like he played with a lot more fire when he was at Purdue. He had a really deep bag of pass rush moves when he was there last season. But to me, I think that he's sort of a scheme versatile player. Like he could play as a, as an interior defensive end for you. Uh, if you're in an odd front, he could play as a, as a four, three defensive end with his hand in the dirt. Heck, he even does a lot of work as a two point stance, uh, rusher as well. So I think he's got a lot of great versatility. I think he's got, I think he's a talented football player, but I just, I didn't feel like he had that same fire that he had the year before. And if we would have built off of that, I felt like he could have been a top 10 pick, but I'm much more in the vein of,

I think he is a day two type of player right now. So that's what I think about. You had him at what? Seven. I had him at four and I did come away disappointed compared to expectations because he was my number one edge this summer. Number one. Yeah.

So with Abdul Carter at number two, you know, the difference is to me, I just didn't think he looked as twitchy and agile. And I just wonder, is he just too big right now? Like, is he just too big? Should he be 265, 270, not 280? And you know what? Here's the real kicker for me, Trevor.

Armand Membu from Missouri shut him down. Owned him. The Texas O-line, both tackles, not much going there against them. And it's like, man, these are the games you got to show up and show out. I still like him. I have him at four. I think he's probably destined to be more of a end-of-round-one, top-of-round-two player now than the top 15 pick I expected him to be. of a end around one top around two player now i would agree top 15 pick i expected

him to be i would agree and the uh rankings in the mock draft simulator by the way you guys are going to reflect that soon when we're when we get off of this podcast only 20 on draft night so there's a lot young player there's a lot in there there's a lot in there for nick scarleton uh his teammate shamar stewart, I have him at number five. Okay. I'm watching him for IDL. So I totally understand that because— He's 290 pounds.

He's 6'6", 290. He's huge. He's also a young player, and he was also a high-profile dude. Five-star defensive lineman in the 2022 class. He was a consensus top-10 player for basically every single recruiting service. He played football and basketball in high school. Again, just getting absolutely yammed on. You're on a mixtape playing up against Shamar Stewart when you're in high school. Explosive as hell. I mean, when you talk about, here's some of his strengths. Imposing size, even for NFL standards.

Top tier explosiveness for a player at his weight profile, speed to power absolutely devastating, violent strong hands to not only give you a pop but also disengage, impressive ability to corner for his size when he flashes it, and willing to hold the point of attack versus the run, not just a player who shoots into the backfield through gaps to defend the run. He can actually hold against the run. Now, there's inconsistencies I mentioned with which foot he's launching off of. He lets offensive tackles get their hands on him first. He doesn't have that timing of his hands to really be able to stay clean.

His hands, when he does shoot, are often high and wide. They're not as precise as they need to be. And he just doesn't have a big time pass rush plan outside of really just being more athletic, being bigger and having a good bull rush. So he reminded me a player whose role, I think he is more athletic than this player, but Dietrich Wise, what Dietrich Wise's role has been for a very multiple versatile defensive front for the New England Patriots. He's been a 3-4 defensive end. He's been a stand-up outside linebacker.

He's even lined up as a nose. He'll line up as a hand in the dirt, five-technique defensive end. Dietrich Wise has lined up all over the place for the Patriots front over the last couple of years, and I think that's a similar role for Shamar Turner or Shamar Stewart. Excuse me. This is a problem, by the way, as well. I know.

His teammate. Good God. Come on. Come on. We got to change the name. What is it? Josh Simmons? Jimmy.

All right. Just come up with a different name. You know, just call him something else. Jimmy. We've reached the threshold on Josh's maximum capacity. Jimmy Stewart from Texas A&M. That was a great bit. That's what we're calling him here.

For everybody that doesn't get that joke from when we talked about offensive tackles, Josh Simmons, the offensive tackle from Ohio State, his teammates called him Jimmy, even though that's literally not his name because there were already two Joshes on the team when he transferred over. That was a summer scouting joke, wasn't it? Jim? Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. That's incredible. So, uh, Jimmy Stewart, um, from Texas A&M, ton of athletic potential,

not a lot of refinement, but God, it's hard to not. He's going to go. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't finished yet. Um,

but I, he's, you just look at him and watch a couple of games and you're like, yeah, he's going to go early. It doesn't matter that he had, you know, not a huge stat padding season.

So real quick, Jack Sawyer, before we get into our top three guys who I just realized are the same top three. And I wasn't sure that was going to be the case. And here we are. That it really did end that way. That's kind of crazy.

Cause it's been, we've been very different throughout this entire podcast. We've been pretty different, yeah, I think for how we rank and see a lot of these guys. Where'd you have Sawyer? Six.

Oh, I had him six too, so we did land on that one. Yep, yep. Sawyer is really what you see is what you get, isn't he? I mean... Feels like it. And that's good

for a lot of reasons with sawyer he's a sawed off hard-nosed edge rusher that i might say sawed off like he does not have long arms he's six four and a quarter 265 uh cameron williams of texas is still looking behind him wondering where jack sawyer went because this dude just this dude just oh my yeah yeah what else do I need to say no but he he is him and Tui Maloa really work well together because they do everything like fundamentally it's such a high level with their hands their ability to set a hard edge their refined hand usage they both have that two-hand swipe working. They both are trying to work in this spin move.

They played at a high level against upper-level competition. The eye discipline for these guys is really good. Sawyer is such a pro at driving through the hips with his tackles. A lot of these guys have bad missed tackle percentages. It's a legit thing that sticks out with a lot of these guys have bad missed tackle percentages like it's it's a legit thing that sticks out with a lot of these guys Sawyer is a really strong tackler good with leverage drives blockers backwards 96 percentile run defense grade it's just he's not very fast he doesn't have great length um you know some of the 2024 productions a little inflated because eight of them were unblocked.

But I feel really good about him as my number two in a defense. If I have a number one, like premier pass rusher and Sawyers across from him, giving me sturdy run defense, a power profile rushing the passer can win with his hands in a couple of different ways and just plays pissed off all the time. I'll gladly take that in round two. Extremely competitive player. I mean, the competitive toughness you absolutely love from him. I think he's a very high IQ football player as well. Really great eyes. You see that in how he's able to get his hands up in the pass rushing lanes,

even though he doesn't have vines for arms. I mean, he's got a lot of pass breakups because of the feel, honestly, that he has for the game. And I think that's a really good way to just talk about Jack Sawyer and why he's so great is because he is in a well-built defensive ends body and he just has such a great feel for the game. He started off as an off-ball linebacker just to get him on the field two years ago. They moved him to full-time edge a year ago,

and obviously he has been starting there ever since. So this is somebody who has one of the highest wins above replacement scores of any edge rusher that we're going to talk about this year. 0.39 average over the last two years, 0.48. So almost half a win above replacement for an edge rusher is a really strong score. And that comes from him playing almost 1,600 snaps over the last two years.

Elite above 90 pass-to-win percentage. Elite above 90 run defense grade. There are some physical limitations. He's not the most explosive. He's not the most bendy. He doesn't have the longest arms. I think he tries to win with power a little too much. I would like to see a little bit more finesse in his game, but just rocks.

Again, I think you put it correct. If this guy's your edge two, you've got a pretty damn good edge one and you're feeling good about your edge rusher room at the nfl level so i'm with you detroit lions step right up dude him and aiden hudgeson one it'd be amazing like it'd be it'd be the story of the bash brothers you know or like it'd just be like rivals who hated each other. It'd be a Hollywood movie. I mean, Hard Knocks would have to just cover this storyline alone of these two dudes just hating each other and pulling pranks on each other during the summer. And, you know, some of them are funny, but some of them are a little too serious and then they hate each other, but then they come together at the end. It's a Hollywood story. Detroit wins the

Superbowl. Shout out Lions fans. So yeah, we kind of need this. We actually kind of need this. America needs it. All right. Top three players. Shout out Lions fans. So, yeah, we kind of need this. We actually kind of need this. America needs it. All right, top three players. Before we get into it, though, have you guys played pick six by DraftKings? If you haven't yet, what are you waiting for? Playoffs are almost over. Time's running out. As the official daily fantasy partner of the NFL, DraftKings does fantasy sports like nobody else.

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One per new customer. Bonuses awarded is non-withdrawable. Pick 6 credits that expire within 30 days. Limited time offer. See terms at pick6.trafkings.com slash promos. All right, buddy. I'm just going to ask you. Where's Mike Green?

Number two. All right. He's three for me. Oh, I was so ready to welcome you to the party buddy i am in top three what do you mean oh number two is where the that's the board that's where you sit at the board of directors okay you're close you're close you're you're much closer than you were i i am much closer than what i was you are right this is good whoo mike green red shirt sophomore from Marshall but I will

say the redshirt sophomore tab is um a little bit fraudulent because he started his career at Virginia he played there for a season and then he transferred to Marshall but then he had to sit out an entire year due to transfer rule so right yes technically he's a redshirt sophomore but he's it's not like he's 19 years old going into the draft or something, or 20 years old. I think he's 22. What's his – I think 21, 22. He'll be 22 on draft night.

I'll double-check that in a second. But Marshall – all due respect to Marshall, of course. Doesn't have first-round pass rushers too often, and they got a damn good one in Mike Green. So, look, I'll give you the honors talk to us about mike green you got him at number two here yeah i've liked this guy for a while he's just you know 64 248 um i've said for a while back in the day when hasan reddick was good which was not this year that's who he reminds me of um he's just so loose like this is an excellent athlete high-end agility he had 17 sacks this

year he had a 21 pass rush win rate he creates havoc but he also finishes plays because he's got really good speed the ghost move is elite like legitimately elite it's where you know his ability to just keep tackles off of him and turn the corner. And he also uses that Euro step to kind of win outside as well. So he's got a different package. It's not just, let me get off the ball quicker than everyone else and run around the corner. There's a couple different things he's working in here, but he can counter inside with an arm over.

And that's what unlocked Mike Green to be a 17-sack player, is that when a tackle has to set that wide and the gate opens up between him and the guard, Green's ghost move, Eurostep, outside speed, dip in the shoulder, working that, working that sets up the inside counter with the arm over. And when you have a lead agility and you can cross the face of a tackle and win through that gap, that's going to lead to a really high sack totals. I think his upper and lower half stay in sync with plus change. Yes, he's such an easy watch. Yes, like everything is in sync from head to toe.

And that's why when he changes direction, it almost looks like a running back rather than a stand up edge rusher. Really good leverage in the run game for his weight. Like he, he plays low. He strikes with his hands really hard and he's not the biggest edge rusher in the world. Although I think he'll come into the combine around two 50 rather than, you know,

where people think he's playing around like two 40. I don't know. He's he's dense. This guy's six, four. I think they'll be at the combine at 250 and he just he he has no fear against the run like it's not like i need to swivel around everybody to make a play against the run i will take on a puller and i might get hit hard but i'll take him on and at

least leave the play leave the alley and the lanes for everybody else to come make the play the biggest question with mike Green right now is like, can he sustain this against better competition? He got to play against Ohio state this year. He's going to the senior bowl. So this isn't a David Walker situation, but if he goes down to the senior bowl and puts on this kind of display against the top tackles, Mike Green is going in the top 16 picks of the draft.

Yeah, I agree with you completely, man. And just to echo and piggyback off of some of what you said there this dude was a wrestler when he was in high school so he's a trench player with a great wrestling background to him as well finished second in the state tournament as a sophomore at 185 and the third in the state tournament as a junior at 220 so you know all i heard there is that he didn't win so um first loser and second loser i'm just kidding i'm just kidding mike calm down the hate continues um played both linebacker and tight end when he was in high

school he's he's just played all around the football field he was on feldman's freak list um bruce feldman wrote quote this summer green ran a 457 40-yard dash bench pressed for 405 pounds power clean 365 and squad at 525 not bad not bad not bad there for him i i just think you just gotta love how this guy play i mentioned to you right there when you were talking about him he's just such an easy watch adequate length and size for the nfl position really built well balanced great core strength explosive first step to immediately threaten the outside which we talked about being a deficiency for some of these other guys. Oh, it ain't the case for these three guys that we're going to talk about here

at the very top, Mike Green included. He can really get up the arc and threaten the outside shoulder in any situation. Good lateral quickness as well. The cross shot move, the dip and rip, anything to get across the face. I mean, he's fantastic when it comes to flexibility and lateral quickness. Consistently physical play. You know, I felt like I was going to watch this guy and he was mainly going to be just somebody who was going to try to win with his athleticism. And he's not, man, he loves to be physical and he is always working to get clean. Even if he doesn't know exactly how

to do that yet, would love for him to go to the Laatu Laatu school of getting clean and just having that sort of hand usage to really master that. Because if this guy's able to take that next step in that regard, and if he's been able to work on that and continue to do that heading into the senior bowl, you're right. I mean, this is going to be a top 15 selection. Somebody that you could talk about for the New Orleans Saints at number nine, the Carolina Panthers at number eight. He's that good. I think that this player has so much potential in the NFL, and I think that his numbers show that. So I have James Pierce Jr. from Tennessee at number two.

This is another kind of coming around moment for me because if you remember summer scouting, I was not super high on James Pierce. I felt like the 2023 tape last year, he was feasting on really bad offensive tackles, feasting against bad competition, and a lot of it was very feast or famine in what he was able to do in general. But this year, I think he got a lot stronger. I think he was a lot more conscious against the run. He used his leverage to his advantage a lot more. He was a lot more conscious of that. And even though I would still like to see him win in ways that aren't just finesse,

he at least made a conscious effort to, I think, execute some other pass rush moves, be able to attack the inside shoulder a little bit more because I just felt like he was, if he wasn't timing the snap count correctly going into this year, so just looking at last year's tape, if he wasn't able to time the snap count correctly,

he wasn't able to be the player that you really needed him to be. And this year, I think that it was different. Not only did you see that elite first step explosiveness for him and when i say elite i don't mean just for the college level i mean for the nfl yeah it is incredibly twitched up so quick off the ball very fast hands decent speed to power because of how fast that first step is he's actually got some some pretty deep or some pretty decent spot dropping ability. So as a 3-4 outside linebacker, that's how you want this guy to play.

He's listed at 6'5", 240 pounds. So he's got a much leaner frame. He reminds me of what Randy Gregory was supposed to be. I like that. You watch Randy Gregory at Nebraska and it is this long, explosive pass rusher who gives you all sorts of fits attacking either shoulder. And I felt like I saw a lot of James Pierce Jr.

in that sort of mold. So this is somebody who 99th percentile pass rush win percentage. If you draft him as a stand-up outside linebacker, I think that, oh man, he's just going to be able to bring so much juice to your pass rush room at the NFL level. I'm with you. The movement skills are just so unique. I actually like the pound-for-pound strength, too,

that he has. This year, yeah. I think the pound-for-pound strength is impressive for his weight. And you can just do a lot of different things with Pierce. He's athletic enough to play in space, drop into coverage. If you're on an island with this guy Like he's athletic enough to play in space, drop into coverage. You know, if you,

if you're on an Island with this guy, like you're, it's not going to be fun for you. Cause he can cross your face. He can win with speed. He just has, he plays incredibly fast, explosive loose.

You nailed it. He's a kind of a master at timing and jumping snaps. There's so much to like with him as a pure pass rusher, him and Mike green. If you need a pure pass rusher, and mike green if you need a pure pass rusher that's why i think both those guys are just gonna go they they just they know how to get you off the field like it's third nate these guys are standing up they're a wide alignment our tackles on an island we can't block this guy he's gonna get after the quarterback and that's the beauty

of pearson green because they have such great movement ability now the strange thing for me with Pierce in his scouting profile is he's only played 926 snaps over the last two years Tennessee has like this 10-man defensive line rotation that they like hockey sub all the time Norman Lott that D tackle you like barely plays I know so like that's that that's sort of the weird thing is like, yeah, all right, he's got these really good numbers. Are they only playing him in advantageous situations? Is he not this full-time edge rusher for the NFL? Are they sort of hiding some deficiencies that he had? You could watch the tape and see a little of the pros and cons,

but that's just something to think about is that rotation that Tennessee had. It wasn't like it was just James Pierce that they were taking off the field. It's just an interesting part of his scouting evaluation that is like that. But in my opinion, some of the moves that I saw this year, the long arm with him having the 6'5 frame and the long arms to him, I think that that's really advantageous for him to be able to burst off the line of scrimmage, get these offensive linemen off balance pretty quickly, and then be able to do something.

If he has a good counter, I think that that'd be a good addition to his game. Rip moves are very fast. The chop move is very fast. The chop rip combo, the two handed swipe. I thought the two handed swipe got a lot better this year, but you're just continuing to see an emphasis in that finesse game as a

player who brings rare explosiveness. And I thought the speed to power was a lot better this year than it was last year, which gives me faith for this guy to be an impact player at the NFL level. That means number one is Penn State's Abdul Carter. Carter was an off-ball linebacker for Penn State over the last two seasons. This past year, though, or sorry, his first two seasons, I should say. This past year, though, they moved him to edge rusher full-time. Listed at 6'3", 260 pounds.

So for an edge rusher, a little bit below 50th percentile. It's 32nd percentile for height. 39th percentile when it comes to weight. He's a true junior, so he's one of the younger players in this class. But, man, you talk about somebody who can bring you everything you want. I mean, he brings you the burst, the twitch, the bend, the insane lateral quickness and agility. And yet he also, unlike some of the concerns that you might have with James Pierce Jr., brings you a physical profile

because he came from that off-ball linebacker background. He's about that life he is he is not afraid to be physical at all times he has some of the most devastating cross-face moves that you will see at insane speeds which have made him unblockable when he has been out there uh throughout his college football career and why i think he's a top pass rusher in this class. I think he should be a candidate to go number one overall. I agree.

I don't think he will go number one overall because just quarterback situation is what the quarterback situation is. But, dude, 0.65 wins above replacement average this year in our metrics. I mean, that is without question the highest grade. He is – to me, he brings you everything that James Pierce Jr. I mean, that is without question the highest grade. To me, he brings you everything that James Pierce Jr. brings you, but he's a little bit stronger. He's a little bit bigger and he plays a little bit more physical. And that's why he's number one on this list for me. Just the way he hits people when he arrives was the biggest indicator to me this summer.

And it carried over into the season it's not like he arrives it's good form it's not reckless no it is it just bodies react differently when this guy hits you differently i i'm with you all the way i mean he was hurt against notre dame and i thought he made some big plays against the run dude he's winning with winning with one arm. He's got one arm out there. Detaining the game with one arm. And against the run where you think he'd be limited because you think that you just can't get a read on things and you're trying to stay off blocks.

I was wildly impressed with that game. He is so explosive, flexible, A-plus speed. You nailed the moves. They stand him up over guards and centers, and it's like what the Cowboys did with Micah Parsons when he got going. I don't want to just say Micah Parsons because both of them played for Penn State. They both played in the exact same role, and they both wear number 11. But, like, how do you not see Micah Parsons when you watch this guy?

They're built the same way they're both about six foot three 255 260 pounds they both have a little bit shorter arm length than you would probably want for a defensive lineman but they're insanely explosive they're insanely twitchy they've got incredible bend I mean like I I I hate doing the parallel because it's not only oh we went to the same school he's wearing the same because it's not only, oh, he went to the same school. He's wearing the same number. He's playing the same position, but it's so hard to not. Same trajectory. The same exact trajectory.

I'm not saying he's going to be Parsons, but he is absolutely in that mold, and that is not just because they went to the same school. He's got a basketball background as well. He was a standout power forward when he was playing in high school, and so when you watch him hit that hesitation move and hit that stutter step in front of interior offensive linemen that's where that comes from he's back to his basketball days and he's hitting those things clean so and there's a couple of things i think he could work on i think he you know he had the

shoulder injury i think he leaves with the shoulder a lot when like taking on contact especially when it's pullers like in split zone situations now i know that's sort of like the form is what you want to do you know you just want you want to give them a good shiver but there are sometimes when i watch them and i go like is that part of why like yeah kind of the shoulders the injury you know like i i feel like you gotta you gotta watch a little bit of that but i understand that that's technique that's fundamentally sound you just got to make sure you're as disciplined with your fundamentals as possible when doing stuff like that especially with the shoulder injury there from him and then the other aspect of it is you know what's crazy there are so many reps where this guy doesn't even launch off the front foot like he could be even better at attacking

the outside shoulder if he launched off of his front foot with more regularity now he does it's just a little bit of like, it's not an always type of a thing like I wish it was. And if it is, man, special football player here for Abdulkar. The awakening for me was the Illinois game. You know, the first three weeks of the season, new position, a little bit of a slow start. He started to show off a spin move.

And then since the Illinois game, like he wrecked them. He made some plays against UCLA. he made some plays against usc and then you just see the improvement really shine ohio state washington maryland the playoff like it's wild to think how insanely impressive the tape was this year and he's getting better he is getting way better and comfortable over time where i yeah i'm with like i think there's gonna be a combo at least a combo around him going one or two overall i agree it's it's like it's it's like the meme where his first his first game was against west virginia this year as like a full-time edge rusher and his worst grade it was like a 43.9 overall grade and then he's just like

I understand it now I understand it now and he just went on an absolute tear the rest of the season we would love to hear from you well actually uh really quick 15 to 1 list them off go ahead please all right let's rip through this here. 15 to 1, I had David Walker from Central Arkansas at 15. At 14, I had Jha Joyner from Minnesota. At 13, I had Ashton Jalati from Louisville. At 12, I had Donovan Azaraku from Boston College. At 11, I had Jordan Burch from Oregon. At 10, I had Josiah Stewart from Michigan.

At 9, I had Mikel Williams from Georgia. 8, I had Landon Jackson from Oregon. At 10, I had Josiah Stewart from Michigan. At 9, I had Mikel Williams from Georgia. 8, I had Landon Jackson from Arkansas. 7, I had Princely Umanmielin from Ole Miss. 6, I had Jack Sawir from Ohio State and his teammate at 5 in JT Tuimaloau. 4, I had Nick Scarraton transferred from Purdue to Texas A&M. 3, James Pierce Jr. from Tennessee. Two, Mike Green from Marshall. Number one, no surprise, Abdul Carter, maybe the best player in the draft from Penn State. Number 15, I had Josiah Stewart from Michigan. 14, Kyle Kinnar from South Carolina.

13, Jordan Burch from Oregon. 12, JT Tuamalau from Ohio State. 11, Prince Leumon Lee Allen from Ole Miss. 10, Jalen Walker from Georgia. 9, Landon Jackson from Arkansas. 8, 10. Jalen Walker from Georgia, 9. Landon Jackson from Arkansas, 8. Donovan Isaraku from Boston College, 7. Nick Skorton from Texas A&M, 6. Jack Sawyer from Ohio State, 5. Shamar Stewart, aka Jimmy, from Texas A&M, number 4. I had Michael Williams from Georgia, 3. Mike Green from Marshall, 2. James Spears Jr. from Tennessee, and number 1,

Abdul Carter from Penn State. We would love to hear from you guys as always. Edge Rush is always a fun group. You've watched a lot of these great pass rushers throughout their college careers. Let us know what you thought of our rankings and where we had them, and we would love to hear from you guys as well. Best way to do that, youtube.com backslash at NFL Stock Exchange. If you're listening to this audio only, you don't have a YouTube account,

you can hit us up at TampaBayTreyrey at Connor J. Rogers on Instagram and Twitter. Next week, we'll have two episodes again. We'll have another position ranking at some point. But then after that, it might get a little messy with some of the all-star game travel. But we'll make sure that we're covering you for Shrine Bowl, for Senior Bowl. We'll do some previews. We'll do that good stuff. But Connor, anything else before we get out of here?

No, this is obviously a really good class. That's why we spent over two hours on it and we didn't even finish the amount of great players that are in this draft class. So we'll revisit it again. And I'm really excited to see everybody's takes in this one. Appreciate everybody watching and listening for Connor Rogers. I'm Trevor Sikama. This was the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. See you guys next time.