NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 302. Early TE Rankings for 2025 NFL Draft

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

0:00 - Intro 8:55 - Luke Lachey, Iowa 17:00 - Jake Briningstool, Clemson 23:35 - Caden Prieskorn, Ole Miss 26:35 - Terrance Ferguson, Oregon 31:35 - Mitchell Evans, Notre Dame 36:35 - Mason Taylor, LSU 41:25 - Elijah Arroyo, Miami 50:50 - Benjamin Yurosek, Georgia 56:00 - Gunnar Helm, Texas 1:01:45 - Harold Fannin Jr, Bowling Green 1:13:50 - Colston Loveland, Michigan 1:20:25 - Tyler Warren, Penn State 1:28:35 - Recap

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sikama, that is Connor Rogers. Another positional ranking episode for you guys today. We're talking about the tight end class. There's been a lot of talk about this tight end class for the 2025 NFL draft. Even going back to summer scouting, there were a lot of great names that we were getting to the table, really presenting to you guys of, hey, these players have really good years. It could shape up to be a pretty deep tight end room. And I think that that's true. I don't know if it's

as star studded at the top as we thought that it was going to be, but it is pretty deep. And I think there's a lot of sort of pick your flavor of tight ends as there always are that we're gonna have to discuss here on the show as we give you our top 10s early top 10s i should say because there's a lot more guys that we got to watch and get to connor how you doing my friend i'm good brother we've been joking that it's just starting to feel like we're back to caveman mode we have sleeping a little eating a little 100 working a lot ready to grind through this group and even you know even I still have a lot of guys left to watch a tight end full transparency like there's just so many day three guys that ran

out of eligibility that are NFL players that this is a oddly deep group but like you kind of highlighted it's not necessarily this group that's just loaded with top 50 picks it's well beyond that so this will be a group I'm watching all the way down to the actual draft week but we have a Sarily this group that's just loaded with top 50 picks. It's well beyond that. So this will be a group I'm watching all the way down to the actual draft week. But we have a really good baseline here. We watch this group over summer. So we're also building off that despite a few guys going back to school, Oscar Delp being one.

And yeah, man, it's, this is going to be, this is going to be another fun one. Yeah. My man, Oscar Delp.

I don't know where he found more eligibility from, but going back to Georgia, getting another try. it wasn't his best year this year i i still believe i still believe i don't you know he wouldn't have been tied into like i think he was going into the year but i still believe well i mean going back to school as a georgia tight end you could do worse man he'll be fine well there's another georgia tight end that we're going to talk about here on the show that i think was just a uh unfortunately a little bit of a down year statistically was just how deep that georgia tight end room was and i wonder if delp gets a little bit more of a look because uh the guy that we're going to talk about here is no longer there so the tight end room's

just a little less crowded so there's look you mentioned i think that you encapsulated it perfectly there's so many mid-round tight ends there's so many day three options there's so many tight end two tight end three types guys are building out your roster with guys are playing special teams for you it is important to nail the tight end position when you talk about depth because it's guys that can do a lot of different things for you not just in your offense but on special teams as well they really round out the roster and i i wonder how different our top tens are going to look because you can prioritize a lot of different stuff so specifically for me i don't know if you do this in your scouting sheet but i i started doing this

two years ago i split them up i have inline tight ends and I have moved tight ends. Smart. Yeah. And obviously like you have to do a little bit of both. Like even the receiving tight ends, it's normally you're not just a receiving tight end. You're going to have to do some blocking assignments and you might be a wing back behind the line of scrimmage. But I did that because I wanted to change the waiting system of how I had like certain traits to where movement and receiving traits were worth more for guys that are going to be much more receivers and then obviously the

bigger guys they're going to play in line more okay well now the bigger piece of that pie for their total film grades are blocking and so we're prioritizing that a little bit more and ultimately we get we get a final film grade and i've got my top 10 overall but you want to find out and you want to allow these guys to have their strengths shine more so that's sort of how i break those up and i'll try to continue to reiterate that as as pff does their mock draft simulator stuff and as we do team centric big boards specifically over the next couple of months which we're going to get into over at pff um that distinction I think is going to be important. It really is.

Go ahead. One guy that I don't have ranked today for this because every time I watch him, I'm just like, man, he really just is more of a wide receiver to me. I'm kind of fascinated to see him go through the process, what he weighs in at and all of that. Is it Rondé Gadsden from Syracuse? I didn't i

didn't rank him today full transparency insanely productive but every time i watch him he just looks like a power slot wide receiver to me where when we do final wide receiver rankings or final tight end rankings i'll kind of land on a spot for him there what i agree right i agree i agree with you 100 i watched him for this exercise and just like i sort of thought when we were going over this during the summer i watched him again for this and i went i am not putting you in this group and if i am i'm putting you last of the guys i watched i watched 15 tight ends so far he would be ranked 15th amongst tight ends because he does not play the position the way you have to be a tight end heat right right i mean in order to be a tight

end you actually it's cool you got the record but it's a little bit of a loophole the whole thing's a publicity stunt man the whole thing's a publicity stunt because he started it why he's a wide receiver recruit he started a wide receiver at syracuse and they moved him to tight end mysteriously. And now he leads the nation for receiving yards and receptions and receiving touchdowns for a tight end. I'm not knocking him. The guy's got skill. But you're a wide receiver.

So it's a little bit different. We can get into this when we talk about him in future episodes. He's also not my cup of tea wide receiver. I know some people really gravitate towards the guys that win with the length and the height and all of that as like a big slot type of receiver. That's not my cup of tea. So I'm not going to value him super high, but we'll see that when we get into like final big board episodes,

because I know a lot of people like him. All right. So top tens, let's go 10 5 okay or 10 to 10 through 6 as we always do and then we will sort of get a little bit more individual with the uh with the top fives there so who you got 10 to 6 rattles 10 for me is is me truly like not letting go it's luke lachey from iowa okay all right like okay it's really me holding on to pre-injury luke lachey and i was really torn at the spot between now i watched 12 guys for this so they're like it wouldn't be shocking if there's somebody i watch because the shrine and senior bowl rosters are really deep at this position and that steals this spot in the end gavin uh gavin

bartholomew who was who I had at 11 but I was kind of flipping him in Lachey a couple times he's gonna hit nine for me is Jake Brenningstuhl from Clemson eight for me was Mitchell Evans from uh from Notre Dame seven for me was Terrence Ferguson from Oregon who i'm just just think he's solid since summer you're t for a guy t forks just sound like solid he's never spectacular never bad he's just solid and then six for me is someone who i really like a one-year breakout uh out of nowhere but a monster breakout is gunner helm from texas who i think i think had a really really good year there's some things he's still working on as he got his real shot this year uh but he was number

six for me and i had because i had a i think i had a surprise in my top five that i'll get to later um i'm i'm doing the numbers in my head and i'm like okay i see all the names that you've listed and then they're either just outside of my top 10 or in that same range that you have and i'm like who do you have yeah there's someone in my top five that i like i had never watched besides broadcast games before this exercise it's called the teaser folks yep so you gotta buckle up you gotta stay through another ad, suckers. Yeah, the average watch time better be through the roof on this episode. As you wait for the sleeper tight end that your team has to draft.

The sleeper that you've never heard of is Tyler Warren. Yeah. Posting Loveland, the guy that you've never heard of. So just some quick thoughts on Luke Lachey. So he was outside of my top 15. I have him at number 14 out of the 15 guys that I watched. And then Brittany Stuhl I had at number 11. So those are the two guys that were on your list who just missed my top 10.

Did you watch Mark Tholmue? I did not. I did not get to him yet. And so he is somebody that I will have to get to a little bit later. Luke Luce, you mentioned from Iowa Redshirt Senior. Actually, he's number 10 on your list. You go ahead and intro him. He's your boy. Yeah, I mean, this is somebody who I really liked. I thought two years ago he was kind of the next big Iowa tight end, as did everyone.

He's he's, you know, he's about six,5", 250, maybe even a little taller than 6'5". So he's got the size. He had right ankle surgery in 2023. Yeah. And I just don't think he's been the same guy since then, personally, is kind of what it seems like with him when you just look at he had 28 catches for 231 yards this year I know this is not a drop back throw it around the yard kind of offense the 2023 injured season he only had 10 catches but it looked like when you watch

2022 where he was still sharing the field with Sam Laporta keep in mind he had 28 catches for 400 yards and four touchdowns. And it was like, okay, when they actually keep him involved, he looks like a guy and he's got the size. I thought he was somebody that there was just, he just knew how to use his frame. He had length, he had athleticism. I thought that on third down,

he could be a go-to weapon to move the chains. The blocking was still underdeveloped. And then that ankle surgery has just set him back where he just hasn't gotten his footing fully under him. So I like Lachey. I want to see him. I liked Lachey. It's just been a steady decline for him. Like he was tight end three for me coming into the year because I just expect I projected

a full bounce back and more kind of the season that Gunnar Helm had is what I thought Luke Lachey was going to have and he didn't and it's been the it's been trending the wrong way for him but he does have a shrine invite he'll go through the combine and it's a really good chance for him to maybe now be a day three value pick in this draft for a guy that I thought once upon a time looked like he was going to be a top 100 selection. Yeah, you kind of have to believe in what you saw two years ago, pre-ankle surgery. That's hard to do. And you have to think that he will get back to that form because unfortunately right now, I agree with you. I don't think he's an NFL athlete right now, and I don't think he's been an NFL athlete since he came back after that ankle surgery.

And maybe it's something that just takes a little bit of time for him to get a little bit stronger, get more confidence in that leg and just work on his quickness, work on his speed to get to that level again. So normally I do a two-year sample size when I'm looking at percentiles, when we're talking about things here on the show. For him, I did the three-year sample size. I threw in 2022 as well. But even if you throw in 2022,

just a 40% separation percentile against single coverage, that's only six percentile. Sorry, it's 40% overall against single coverage. That's just sixth percentile overall, which is not a strong number. I mean, you mentioned his blocking. I don't mind the fundamentals with his blocking but he's not really a stout uh run blocker just a 27 positively graded run blocking

plays or impact run blocking plays so that's not really his game his game is mainly going to be as a receiver you know i i think that he can go i think he'd be scrappy for you on the line of scrimmage just because i would teach us all their tight ends to be and i think that he can go i think he'd be scrappy for you on the line of scrimmage just because i would teach us all of their tight ends to be and i think that he's got some good fundamentals there but i don't really think i don't believe he had that strength level i don't think that as of right now in his current form he's got that strength level to win as an inline blocker so he really just has to win as a receiver and unfortunately he doesn't right now he's got good hands but the 2022 tape looked different than the 2024 tape. And the 2024 tape to me is like a late day three type of a tight end

that you're maybe hoping can get back to that level. Funny story about him, though, just for everybody out there. So he grew up in Columbus, Ohio, and his dad is Jim Lachey, who was the former number 12 overall pick of the 1985 NFL draft. He was an offensive tackle, got drafted by the Los Angeles Chargers. He's a three-time All-Pro, won a Super Bowl, played in the NFL for over 10 seasons. So his dad was a Buckeye. His dad went to Ohio State.

His mom went to Ohio State. His grandparents went to Ohio State. His uncles went to Ohio State. His sisters went to Ohio State. His dad went to Ohio State his mom went to Ohio State his grandparents went to Ohio State his uncles went to Ohio State his sisters went to Ohio State his his cousins went to Ohio State Luke grew up a diehard Ohio State fan and the offer never came Ohio State only ever gave him a gray shirt offer and Iowa gave him a full ride so we ended up going to Iowa and um you know there's a story out there. I can't remember who wrote it, but it's a fun little story because Jim, his dad, is a radio broadcaster for Ohio State.

When Iowa played in the horseshoe this year, and he was healthy enough to play against them, it was just kind of a cool moment for the family. A guy who's from Columbus, Ohio, was sort of a Buckeye through and through growing up, ends up going over to Iowa. He had his highest grade of the season. I don't know if you saw this, his highest overall grade of the season against Ohio State. I love it, man. Those games that always carry a little bit of extra emotion. Those are the ones I like to watch.

Okay. First, first game of the year. Sometimes you could watch that and see how a guy is right out of the gate. Rivalry games, if you transferred from somewhere and you play that team, I want to see how you're playing against them. And then obviously postseason stuff, anytime you're playing for some hardware, college football playoff spot, conference championship, whatever. But anyways, just getting back to it. Luke is somebody who I know you're a big fan of. Unfortunately, if he's going to win as a receiver, he's got to be able to get quicker. just getting back to it uh luke is somebody who i i know you're a big fan of um unfortunately i

just if he's gonna win as a receiver he's he's got to be able to get quicker he's got to get closer yeah i'm with you all the way another guy that i didn't get to finish watching so i didn't rank him but i thought could have been a contender for this spot where i i got done watching him um as my brain completely freezes was Georgia Tech's Gavin Hawes. Not Gavin Hawes. Jackson. Jackson. Right?

Yes. Why is my brain having an absolute. Yes, Jackson Hawes. Jackson Hawes, not Gavin Hawes. All blocking. Like I'm watching him and it's just like all blocking. But I'm like, man, like you have a floor that teams will really, really like. So I had him in consideration, but I just didn't get to finish enough games.

But talk about a road dog blocker that I think also deserves to be brought up. And I know you watched more of him, so I'm sure we'll talk about him. Yes. So he was outside of my top 10, so I'll just touch on him briefly. And just to list off who I had from 15 to 11, I had Aranda Gasson at 15. I had Luke Lachey at 14. Jalen Connors from Texas Tech, the giant tight end who started his career at Oklahoma. Then he moved on to Arizona State for three years, and then he played at Texas Tech. I have him at number 13. Big dude, 6'6", 260 pounds. I think he could be a good receiver for you he gives you

some good flash plays but for a bigger guy i think he's going to be more of an inline tight end at the nfl level i need to see more violence in the blocks and i i just did not see that from him he was too much of a splash player for me so i have him a little bit lower at number at number 13 haas i have a number 12 who extremely limited as a wide receiver i mean he didn't have 200 yards receiving total in any season of the four seasons that he played of college football but he'll block his ass off and he's got the strength for it uh he's got the mentality for it he is absolutely like you said a high floor blocking type of player who like a real 260 easy easy tight end three for five six seven years in the nfl in my opinion

i'm with you i think we saw him exactly the same and then brinning stool was the other player that i had just outside at number 11 so that kind of goes into him being number nine for you i know that brinning stools got some fans uh within the draft circle about six foot six 230 pounds so he's just this long lean receiving type of tight end uh you know just doing some background information on him i i saw this quote from davo sweeney he said quote he was a little bit immature early on as far as what it was going to take for him to be the best version of himself but man he has bought into it he's a tough kid he's a tough competitor he's a great finisher on the ball I would agree with that completely um when you look at how he played early on in his career I didn't think that he was to his fundamentals at all whatsoever he was all just like okay he's a

pretty good athlete he's got that size and length to him you love that about him but he did not have that mentality he did not play with that strength and look's 230, so he's going to be more of a receiving tight end than anything. But I at least love the fact that this year he played with an edge to him. I agree. He played pissed off this year. So even though he was running into defensive linemen and outside linebackers that were clearly going to give him the business, he was doing it. And he was doing what he needed to do there.

Now, like I said, the long strides, the the athleticism he's going to be a move tight end he's going to be that big slot type of a player he's going to be a mismatch type of guy in the receiving game um which i think that he did fairly well although i felt as though he lacked creativity after the catch he lacked nuance in his route so that still has to come along for him to be a big difference maker in that regard but uh i do like where we're going with burning stool i at least like the attitude that i saw this year which makes him intriguing for a day three player i'm not gonna lie when i i turned on the tape and wrote down his measurables just typically not my type of player at all you know a guy that is that lanky and used so he had 360 snaps in the slot and 33 out wide so you're talking about almost 400 snaps really playing wide receiver or slot receiver

compared to 291 in line and then i really gave the tape a chance and there was flashes as a blocker where i was like man if you actually gain weight and you fall into the right coaching situation, you have a chance. Right. Right. I got to be honest. I went in. I was like, no way. Like he's going to get he's going to get thrown around. And this year it felt like you're right, Trevor. Some kind of light came on where he had some reps out there where you're like he's he's got a little dog in him on the as a blocker. Even if he doesn't have the mass that he needs to hang in there he's caught 12 touchdowns over the last two years so you know what he is as a receiver in the red zone which is a good sign so i haven't met nine the senior bowl invites big for him i

think he would be what i would classify as a project tight end at the nfl level though totally totally and i have i gave him so i gave him a fifth round grade on, on film, which is a more, it's like a developmental tab. You know, like I have like a round grade and then it's sort of like, okay, what this projection normally means when you're picked in this round. And it's literally, it's developmental prospect. That's what it is. Because I think that he's going in the right direction, but he needs to continue to go into that direction. The red zone threat mentioned he's got pretty high catch percentages which is good to see the issue is is sort of what i what i was saying a little bit earlier if you're just going to be a receiving tight end that's fine i'm okay with that but 33rd percentile and separation versus single coverage it's got to be better than that you got to be a better route runner you got to have more nuance there and then just 23rd in yards after catch percentile he just wasn't dynamic after he got the ball in his hands so those are two areas where i'd love to see him get more creative get more dynamic because i think there can be a little something there in his current state the player comp that i have for him is colin johnson from tex Colin Johnson? Oh, yeah, massive wide receiver.

Six foot six, 225 pound guy. And he's still floating around. I think he's still with the Chicago Bears. And there was talk of him transitioning and becoming a tight end. So I think that the talk can go the other way around. So that's my early working comp for Brenningstuhl. But just like we talked about with lachey funny thing about brinning stool so his father tony played linebacker at michigan state both of his grandparents went

to michigan state his sister went to michigan state his cousin worked on tom iso's staff on the men's basketball team and uh they chose to go to clemson. He chose Clemson. He was a big recruit. Because Michigan State, he went to camps, like Michigan State football camps growing up. They were the first school to offer him. And he was like, nah, I'm going to Clemson. Yeah, he was not about that life. I mean, not about that life.

Yeah, he was a big recruit. He was. Yeah, so I had him at nine. Once again, I'm really curious to see how the back end of these rankings develop with so many guys getting all-star invites at this group. And after him, I thought there was a gap, though. That Lachey-Brenning stool at 10 and nine for me, I thought there was a gap to eight and 7 with mitchell evans and terrence ferguson yeah i thought they were they were much more like pro style tight ends to me

okay okay maybe i know the guy who's sneaky in your top five you're playing clue well i'm just process of elimination here so yeah i feel like it's a good it's a good time to now it helps he is five like i don't have a surprise at two or one all right ten through six for me number ten is number ten is caden prescoring from old miss it's not him okay all right so i i watched him i watched a lot of him over summer this player i had never watched for this show okay number nine i have mason taylor from lsu sure number eight i have your boy t ferg fergalicious i got terrence ferguson at eight number seven i got my number seven i got mitchell evans right and then at number six, I have Elijah Arroyo from Miami.

He's five. There it is. We got to it. Yep. We got to it. What a fun surprise, huh? We're only 22 minutes into the podcast, so now the average view duration. Class dismissed.

Class dismissed. Don't watch Elijah Arroyo. Yeah, I mean, honestly, that'd be great. So, all right, you watched a little bit of Prescorn, though, who I have at number 10. I did not love Caden Prescorn when we watched him over Summer Scout. I was like, okay, kind of an afterthought dude, maybe a day three flyer. So he's 6'5", 255 pounds. And I'm not going to lie, man. I, I, I enjoyed

the tape that I saw from him this year. Now he's, he's, he's an all around tight end type of a player. He's going to be able to play in line for you. The separation percentile seventh percentile. So, you know, if he's going to catch the ball the ball it's gonna have to be in contested situations however he's great at and some of these guys even for being listed as tight ends like even as receiving tight ends they don't do the receiving tight end stuff like that's not good there's there's a lot of tight ends that are a little bit lighter for the position that you would say okay there are more of these move tight ends they're big slot players but then a lot of tight ends that are a little bit lighter for the position that you would say, okay, there are more of these move tight ends. They're big slot players. But then a lot of their routes are out and ups. They're up the seam.

It's out routes. It's wheel routes coming out of the backfield. It's things to the flat. It's things to the outside. What happened to throwing over the middle? Quick little slant. You know you're getting popped. It doesn't matter. Here's a quick seven. That's what I want to see from my tight

ends when they're lined up on the outside or when they're lined up in the slot, I should say. Hike, three-step drop, hitch, boom, straight in the breadbasket, getting blasted by the safety. He hangs on, tight end end gets up gives you a little bit of this which is apparently a penalty in the nfl now yeah you don't have to do anything but that's that's that's that is something that i saw from caden prescorn and a couple of other guys that we're going to talk about here mitchell evans is another one of them in breaking routes man stuff over the middle backside digs just those in just those, those, those, um, like even like even mesh concept stuff where you're going over the middle and you're knowing

you're about to get hit, but really it's, it's the quick slant stuff. It's the stuff that's over the middle. Um, the seam route stuff where, you know, you're probably going to get hit by a safety. Even some of these receiving tight ends that we have in this class didn't do the dirty work reception stuff very often, or they weren't asked to do it very often. Preschooling was at least one of those guys that I go, okay, is he the fastest? Is he the strongest? Does he separate super well? No, but he's pretty all around. He gives you a decently high floor. And for a tight end three of a traditional tight end role, this guy, I think, could fill it at the NFL level. So I didn't want to shout him out because I didn't think that he was much of a

prospect coming into this year. And I actually liked his tape more than I thought that I was going to. So I got him at 10. Mason Taylor's at nine. Terrence Ferguson's at eight. You want to talk about T-Ferg real quick? Sure. We I got him at 10. Mason Taylor's at 9. Terrence Ferguson's at 8. You want to talk about T-Ferg real quick? Sure. We'll break him down a little bit.

Go ahead. Yeah. I got him at 8. Where'd you have him? 7? Let me just check. Yeah, I had him at 7. Okay.

I mean, really the same exact guy from summer, right? 6'5", 235. He just, he went back to school. And, you know, know obviously for to a really good Oregon team the stats aren't aren't wildly different 2023 42 catches 414 yards six touchdowns 2024 43 catches more yards 591 less touchdowns three with Ferguson he's got good size and I think he knows how to use it to box out or climb the ladder or kind of work in space. I thought he climbed the ladder for big plays more in 2023.

And in 2024, I thought he was better at finding space, which isn't shocking with the player getting more experience. There's some really big time catches, as I said on the 2023 tape 2024 what i liked i thought he improved a lot as a blocker on the line of scrimmage i saw a lot of leg drive it seems like he's gotten a lot stronger in his in his base and he just understood when engaged how to drive his legs to help move people rather than just kind of land and lock i thought that the effort blocking down the field is a plus when he gets his sights on a db it's like oh now you're in my domain and it was like it was like when it was against a front seven player it was like okay let me think about technique when it was again yeah right right let me let me snowplow you out of the way uh he's just he's not explosive he's not very fast

and this year what i didn't see in 2023 that i saw more of this year i saw him alligator arm a lot of passes where i was like i agree which was weird i what i liked about him over summer was like he's really reliable this year there was a lot of times where Gabriel would throw a pass away from his frame and he'd alligator arm it rather than smoothly adjusting or kind of turning and his body like having a springy more springy body he was very tight and I can't adjust to this and my arms or my elbows are against my frame so that was one area where I was like oh he he I thought progressed as a blocker. I thought he regressed as a pass catcher a little bit. Yeah. I, I, I kind of agree with, with what you're saying there. One of the lines that I have for him is I like him as a

receiver. When you look at some of his percentiles and just how natural of an athlete he is, and he's got good size to him. He listed at six foot five 255 pounds and he carries it super well he carries it like an athlete he really does he's somebody who grew up playing four different sports football basketball track and field lacrosse so he's got that versatile background to him 53rd percentile in separation of when he's in single coverage situations that's not bad 92nd percentile when it comes to yards after catch and so some of that is schemed up a little bit where you're just getting a guy running a straight line but other times he's able to show that he's pretty dynamic so I like him as a receiving tight end but an

issue that I have with him this year is he didn't attack the ball in the air the way that I wanted him to and honestly in the same way that he attacked it I thought in 2023 so I thought I saw this similarly to you so oh it feels as though when we went into the season it was like okay where can he take steps you know to really improve his game and improve his stock because I thought you know him being a end, a day two type of a guy was well within reach for Terrence Ferguson. Now I think, all right, you're probably a priority day three type of a player because you're not bringing me a ton when it comes to run blocking. I think the technique is fine, but I think he lacks the real, in my opinion, leg drive to be a difference maker against the run.

You talked about how it was a little bit of a struggle for him when he was going up against those box defenders, specifically against defensive ends or outside linebackers trying to set the edge. But as a receiver, he does a lot of things that you like. He's got to be stronger at the catch point, in my opinion. To play this position and to be that receiving tight end, you've got to be stronger at the catch point. He reminded me in my early comp forum is Foster Moreau, who is more of that longer sort of athletic receiving tight end. And he's somebody who can give you some yards after the catch as well.

It's not a tunnel wiggle, but it's pretty good. Put your foot in the ground and get up field type of a yards after catch, which I feel like Ferguson does pretty well. So Moreau's found a nice spot with New Orleans, sort of as that receiving tight end within that system and i think terrence ferguson has the ability to be sort of that tight end to receiving tight end uh in the nfl so it didn't blow me away a little bit of what you see is what you get i think he's probably a priority day three type of a guy but um yeah that's what i thought terrence ferguson where did you have mitchell evans seven all right okay so i think we had them flipped i had evans at uh eight

so why don't you talk about evans a little bit i'll piggyback off that and then we'll get into arroyo yeah so um baby gronk right but you know baby gronk before him was Michael Mayer, and then Baby Gronk before him was Cole Komet, and then, no, I'm just kidding. And then it was actual Baby Gronk. We're not going down that road today. No, we're not doing that. We're not doing that. I'm out.

So Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame had a lot of hype, honestly, when he got to Notre Dame. Yeah, he was behind Michael Mayer for two years, but they were really excited about this guy when he was going to become a full-time starter and he hasn't but the last two seasons six foot five 260 pounds and I think he's all love 260 I think some of these other guys maybe Mason Taylor maybe Terrence Ferguson you know I think a couple of maybe they'll be closer a little bit you know 250 when they lined up at the combine but Mitchell Evans I think is going to be 260, maybe 262,

something like that. I think that this is somebody who can line up on the line of scrimmage and play pretty strong. And ultimately that's why I have him over a Mason Taylor, a Terrence Ferguson, a Caden Prescorn, guys like that is because I've got more faith in what Evans can do as a blocker, the physical profile that he has, but also those tough contested catches. He had some monster contested catches in 2023, not as many, I don't believe, in 2024, but those opportunities to run those in-breaking routes,

run them with confidence, and be somebody that can attack over the middle of the field, whether it's short, intermediate, or deep, that's the type of tight end that I want on my team. I want a tight end that gives me the ability to unlock the middle of the field, and I still think that Mitchell Evans allows you to do that. Now, he's not the best athlete in the world. Separation percentile is just 29th percent against single coverage separations, and yards after the catch, just 35th percentile. So he's not really going to bring that to his game. I think he's a little bit stiff when it comes to his movements, but you know, not,

not overly twitchy of a player, I guess I should say, but man, he's just a strong football player. I think he's dense in his body mass, really strong hands, like I mentioned. And I think he's got a decent first step. Straight line speed is still fine for me. And even the, okay, I'm going to take a few steps off the line of scrimmage. I'm going to put my foot in the ground. I'm going to explode one way, whether it's in breaking or an out breaking route. That's the kind of stuff that I do still think he can do. Can you set him up or can he set you up and give you all sorts of wiggle or double breaks?

Or is he running whip routes or things like that? No. But for a traditional tight end sense, I think he brings a lot to the table. Tore his ACL and MCL in 2023, so he missed most of last season. Came back this year, and I think he was really just sort of getting back to form. I do believe that we could see an even better version of him once he gets into the NFL. So excited about that. Had a little bit of a quarterback background, as I'm reading sort of his background right now in high school.

Played quarterback as a senior, played tight end as a junior, also played basketball, got a pretty diverse family background when it comes to athleticism. His dad, Adam, played football at Penn and Kent State. His mother played volleyball at Akron. His sister plays volleyball at Georgia. So just a really athletic family. Ultimately, the bottom line that I have for Mitchell Evans here,

Evans doesn't have the rare movement skills that set him apart as a potential top 60 pick as a future NFL tight end, but his floor is balanced and high as a tight end three with the potential to move into a contributing tight end two role due to how reliable his blocking and hands are through contact. So that's sort of what I thought of Mitchell Evans there. What'd you think? I thought pretty much the same.

One thing I'll keep in mind here. While the, I didn't think the movement skills pre-injury were anything out of this world. He is coming off the torn ACL in 2023 and might be a little bit more explosive. The further removed he is from that and coming off that torn ACL in 2023 still finishes with over 40 catches

over 400 yards three drops on 59 targets you brought up the family background it's insane that you know mom played volleyball in college dad played football in college you go even further back to the 2023 tape he had a standout game against ohio state in 2023 uh 75 yards on seven catches he showed off his blocking i think you you highlighted this a lot like the he has the necessary mass on the line of scrimmage that just not a lot of these guys carry and that's an nfl tight end when you carry that kind of mass and can contribute in the past game you know it goes back to actually an interesting way how we talked about Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech who is all blocking because of his frame and his kind of demeanor.

You just look at Mitchell Evans and say, man, he's got the blocking ability and we think that the receiving game can continue to at least contribute, not be the one tight end one kind of guy, but like you said Trevor develop into a tight end too where'd you have Mason Taylor ranked from LSU fourth okay I have him ninth okay so you're a little lower on Mason Taylor I wonder if I'm going to be one of the lower people on on Mason

Taylor here who I felt like I was I was disappointed with when I watched his tape. It's funny because that was me over the summer. When people were talking about Mason Taylor over the summer, I didn't even have him in my top eight we did or whatever we did, top seven to ten. I was like, man, I don't really see it as much. And then when I went back and watched this year, I see him on the right trajectory. He's somebody that has great hands. I think he has enough burst off the line of scrimmage into his routes. I saw him work through contact at the catch point.

Enough straight line speed to run the seam. He's really good at understanding leverage to get under pads. He could give you an edge in the run game. Especially the downhill running game is where I thought he looked better rather than the zone running game but i still think he needs to get bigger i still want to see him make plays i liked him playing through contact at the catch point i did not like him playing high pointing the ball there was so many different times where he had a chance to high point the ball and climb the ladder and he just he didn't come down he didn't finish the play consistently um and there's just no creativity after the catch with him like there's just it's just kind of

catch the ball run straight where there was a couple other guys where i saw like gunner helm who i had at six who i don't think is the same blocker at the next level potentially as Mason Taylor, I loved Helm after the catch in comparison. So that was a big drawback. But I think Mason Taylor is getting bigger, stronger, and showing really reliable hands. And I mean, I wouldn't even take him in the second round. There was just a big drop off from my top two guys.

And after that, but in the third round, I think he's going to go and, and truly be that tight end too. That can give you a little of everything. Yeah. I mean, genuinely Mitchell Evans,

Terrence Ferguson, Mason Taylor, Caden Prescorn. They're all in the same bucket. Like they're all in the same tier. They're basically early day three guys, in my opinion. I think Mason Taylor needs to get stronger and and he certainly could and he's going to get the opportunity to do that you know he's listed as six foot five 255 pounds i think

he needs to get stronger one way i don't think he's 255 i don't think he's 255 either so whether he's 255 and needs to get to 260 265 or if he's like 245 250 and he needs to gain another 10 pounds that way um i i think that that needs to happen because i agree i think he needs to be stronger in contested catch situations i was not as encouraged with him as a blocker uh i also felt as though even though he has a lot of experience in line, I felt as though the hands were super wide all the time. The hands need to be much better, much more in control. And sometimes that just is what it is, right? If you're a tight end, you're kind of lining guys up,

and if they hit you early, you go, okay, well, now I got to sort of get my hands on you. And sometimes you can be a little bit wide with the hands, but I felt like he was consistently wide with the hands. Now, look look he's jason taylor's son so he's gonna get all the chances in the world to play at the nfl level just because of the hall of fame bloodlines it's there you know zach thomas is his uncle and it's just he's basically a miami dolphin is what i'm trying to say what i'm trying to tell

you um he was state champion at saint thomas Aquinas a legendary high school um when he was when he was in high school there so it's like he's an accomplished high school player went to a big school in LSU has the NFL bloodlines to him if you are correct and you think that his best football is ahead of him I think he will get that chance to be that type of a player. I just think he's a little bit further away than you are. It's hard for me to go, yeah, all right. I think that you're definitely going to get stronger and become a better blocker and get more dynamic after the catch and get better in contested catch situations

and have a little bit more nuance in your routes. And it's just like a lot of things that I go, you might get better at one or two of those things. Right. Yeah. I don't know how much better you're going to get better at all of them. And so, hey, maybe he blossoms into just a completely different player. That could be the case.

But in his current state, that's the bucket that I have him in with those other four guys. And I've seen him ranked a little bit higher, but I kind of got to stop it being a mid-round player. Maybe a third-round pick if you, again, believe in the potential or a priority day three guy in the fourth round. That's sort of where I saw Mason Taylor here within this class. Okay, so Elijah Arroyo? Yes, so you had him at five. At five, and I had him at six yes so we basically have him in the same spot talk to me about him let's go he's he's a he's a senior bowl guy so we'll get to see him

he is this fella can run for a six foot four i'll say 245 ish pounds we'll see what he decides what he ends up weighing in at redshirt junior adam at miami acl tear in 2022 so this kind of he only plays the four games in 2022 2023 was also held back by injury so only has 11 career catches across three seasons before 2024 he was a pretty big time recruit so he has a good pedigree and then 2024 healthy cam ward at quarterback 35 catches 590 yards seven touchdowns season. Number one out of the gate. Only one drop on 47 targets this year. Yeah. He catches everything.

And when I say catches everything, they're not just running the same old swing pass to him over and over again. This guy works vertical at times, too. Keep in mind, like he could really get down the field. There are targets that are catch and run designed plays plays but he also gets some chances down the field yeah his average depth of target was over 10 it was 11 yards which is wild that's 79th percentile that's a good call out and yet he had a 94th percentile yards after catch too just to give you guys a hint of how good the receiving profile is for this it's really good

the receiving profile he's quick he's agile his routes i saw separation with his routes he can kind of sink his hips he could change direction the change of direction in his routes is really as smooth as you'll see for a real tight end like somebody weighing 240 plus pounds yep here's the thing trevor i know he's not the biggest guy and he hasn't gotten a lot of experience because of the injury he does play with an edge as a blocker 100% it's like it's there it's physically there's times where hey he's 240 up against 280 it is what it is but in terms of demeanor effort like like really bringing it and trying it's there and that's what matters with a guy like this the so the couple things that i will keep an eye on like

that's just not a prototypical inline body where i'm gonna have it if you're drafting elijah royo and you're like hey 80 of your snaps you're playing on the line of scrimmage and blocking a defensive no he's then you're an idiot he's yeah then you're an idiot like i think you could do things with him in the backfield they like to work him across the formation and dump it down to him i think at times you could run him up the seam maybe you you know have two tight ends on one side and have him run the seam and have the other one block or work underneath but you're right he could also be that power slot for you but uh and it's kind of funny. He only had one contested catch on only five opportunities.

But when you watch this offense, so much is Cam Ward extending a play and Arroyo gets open somewhere else. So there's not a ton of times where somebody's climbing all over him. He's also such a good separator that that plays into it as well. So I really like the speed. I really into it as well so i really like the speed

i really like the athleticism and i really like the mindset where this guy can maybe be not a weapon as this inline blocker all the time but there's a weapon as a blocker in there in creative ways that i honestly i almost i i almost had him at four over m Taylor. Yeah. The upside with this guy is what I would really want to swing on. Yeah, I could absolutely see it. I could absolutely see him being tight end four, maybe even tight end three. I think three is in play. Yeah.

I can't wait to see him at the Senior Bowl because I agree. There's a lot of things that I really liked about him. I watched five plays before I immediately wrote down okay this dude plays with an edge yep like he it was five straight plays and i go all right sense of urgency effort um game speed just that that that playing with a chip on your shoulder that he's got it and the blocking technique is is not only not good it's sometimes reckless like when he is going up against the defensive end that outweighs him by more than 40 pounds he will completely dip his head and try to just just just get yeah and it's like all right that's

not good we don't need to get hurt here we don't need you exposing the crown of the hell yeah i also saw when he would get his when he would keep his eyes up and when he would get his hands up and run blocking to actually get latched on and have really good hand positioning i would notice that like as he would start his leg drive he's doing so with no leverage at all whatsoever like his shoulders are up here and the other guys are like down here and it's like all right you're probably not going to be able to push anybody that far and so there are some things with blocking technique that need to be worked out and he's obviously just not the strongest tight end of the world given exactly what he does but i can see difference making plays and difference making traits and i can't say that

for even most of the guys in this class we just talked talked about Mitchell Evans, Terrence Ferguson, Mason Taylor, Caden Prescorn, guys like that. A lot of it is just, yeah, I mean, pick whoever you want. Right, right. Just pick one of them. Doesn't really matter. They're kind of the same, a lot of the same a lot a lot of the same things arroyo if you have a plan for this dude like uh man who's my early working comp for him oh so i have grant calcaterra on here for what calcaterra has been

as a wide receiver for philly but i mean i i think that he can be better than that like certainly i think he could give you even more of an output than what calcaterra has but calcaterra started going through it with injuries throughout his college and nfl career so i think that goes into it as well but a fun story and background for um for elijah arroyo as well he was born in miami grew up in miami uh his parents moved to cancun mexico when he was six years old so he spent spent six years there. So he actually really learned the game of football, playing for a youth football team in Cancun, Mexico. Pretty wild. Then they moved to Frisco, Texas, back to the United States.

And then he played at Independence High School there when he was in Texas before committing to Miami, sort of coming back home, a little bit of a full circle thing. But yeah, man, I like this player a lot. I have him at number six but genuinely i i feel like there is a path for him to be tight end three in this class because he was a lot of fun to watch and you know what you're getting as a wide receiver from him i mentioned some of those numbers already a 79th percentile averaged at the target and yet a 94th

percentile yards after catch for the tight end position that's normally it is very much one of the other you were either high a dot low yards after catch or you are very low a dot very high yards after the catch that's just how it works when you were high in both uh you pay attention to those things so very excited to see him in mobile and see how he uh works out with a bunch of these other guys before we get to our next next player, if you guys played pick six, yeah, by DraftKings, because if not, you're running out of time. We got two more games before the Super Bowl. We got the conference championship games. As the official daily fantasy sports partner of the NFL,

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i think that's every that's everybody on my 10 through six yeah we went through all mine too except gunner helm who i know you have higher and i had i had helm at six six oh, so five for me is Benjamin Urosik from Georgia. Interesting. Did you watch him? I didn't watch him, but I've watched. Is it Urosik or Urosik? It's Urosik. I thought it was Urosik, but it's Urosik.

I've watched Urosik, I feel like, three different times. I will watch him again, and I know he wasn't used very often in their past game, but I do know the young fella has significantly stepped this game up as a blocker. Look, man, he was the guy who I was talking about at the top of the show where he played a lot more when he was at Stanford.

Cause he was at Stanford before he was at Georgia. He was like the dude at Stanford once upon a time with Tanner. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I believe so. And he transfers to Georgia. And even though he took a step back in playing time,

I actually wonder if it was best for him because Georgia can develop some all around tight ends. We know they know. We've seen that before. This group had lost and lucky in it. It had Benjamin Urosic. It had Oscar Delp. I mean,

it's a deep tight end room in Georgia. So the snap count was down a little bit lower, but you're off six, six foot four, 243 pounds. And look, he's going to be more of a receiving tight end just because of his build around six foot four to 40,

but pound for pound, this dude can block. And Georgia used him as a fullback lead blocker in short yardage and goal line situations they used him attached to the line of scrimmage so that lost lucky could play as more of a receiver on the outside um they they would use him attached to the line of scrimmage to the tight end one so oscar delve could be more of the wing back but yorosik also played in the slot i think think he's quick. I think he's a really natural all-around athlete. He reminds me of how we talked about Ben Sennett last year from Kansas State.

Just this jack-of-all-trades type of a player who you like the blocking potential, you like what he could be as a receiver. Not a ton of work as a receiver when he was at Georgia, but I think he's got a really nice first step out of his stance. I think he's got some pretty, pretty decent flexibility and wiggle to him to give you some good nuance in his routes. 62nd percentile when it comes to separation yielded against single coverage.

He's got pretty good scores when it comes to average depth of target, 63rd percentile yards after catch 55th and the block, the positively graded run blocking plays connor 11.6 that's 79th percentile that's impressive this dude's 243 and he's yielding way better blocking percentiles than most of the guys who are we just talked about on this show who are listed above 250 so he's got really great blocking fundamentals approaches the game the right way and he feels like a jack of all trades type of a player for you um i i am a sucker for urasic i i think within this tight end group he's gonna be my guy he's gonna be the guy i bet on he's gonna

be the guy that i just want on my football team um played tight end and outside linebacker when he was high school uh won a state championship playing both sides of the ball he also played basketball averaged a double double as a senior and a junior when he was in high school there winning a state championship again in that sport so big fan just a big fan he's another guy who d family background dad played football colorado state mom played volleyball at Colorado State. We've mentioned this before. We mentioned this on Summer Scouting.

Great-grandfather Mike, credited with inventing the baby carrot. One of our favorites. That is years ago we did that bit. Two years ago when you brought that up. Yes. Insanity. Insanity how long it's been. He's the Jalen Catan of summer scouting prospects

he is guess who we're talking about six months from now jaylen catalan baby you better fucking believe it i'll never quit everybody does summer scouting for six years yeah they're called doctors i'll never log off jalen catalan is gonna own a law firm by the time he is done with college a surgeon he does man a surgeon i sure hope he does my bottom line scouting report for urasic uh he didn't see heavy usage in 2024 but he presents adequate all-around nfl ability for the position uh he's though he has best used as a move tight end especially if he can put on maybe five to ten more pounds dude if you give me Benjamin Urosik and tell me he's gaining five to ten more good pounds at the NFL level yeah I'm

I'm in baby I am in he can make for a versatile tight end, too, in basically any offense as a mid-round pick, potentially a late day two selection. I'm in. So number five for you, right? Number five for me. Nice. All right. He will be a shrine bowl player.

Big opportunity for him to get more pass-catching looks. All right. So should I read five through one? It's not like two. Well, I already read Elijah Arroyo at five and Mason Taylor at four, so I think everybody knows my top three. Okay, then let's do Gunnar Helm, because I have Gunnar Helm at four, and that will lead us to our top three. So you have Helm at four, I have Helm at six.

I mean, you like him a little more, so I'll be brief before tossing to you. What a year for Gunnar Helm. all first of all the name right well Gunner Helm is like if you could create a tight end you'd name him Gunner Helm what a sick tight end and it's Gunner G-U-N-N-A-R it's it's so sick 6'5 and an eighth 252 senior uh out of. I mean, breakout season. I put in perspective. Totally. 2023 had 14 catches for 192 yards and two touchdowns. This year he had 60 catches for 786 yards and seven touchdowns. He only dropped two of his 73 targets. This guy plucks the ball out of the air pretty seamlessly.

35 of his 60 catches went for first downs this year. I love him running after the catch, Trevor. Jukes, stiff arms, hurdles. The big frame eats contact. Texas put a lot on this guy's plate as a blocker. They really, really did. And it's not always pretty in terms of sustaining blocks and getting overpowered, but he has experience with it

and he's got size and he obviously has really high effort and he didn't play a lot before this year where there is room to grow there i think that he's obviously going to make his bread and butter as a receiver. Sure. But he did give, he did give a little something. He's not, he's not a zero. Like, no,

he's not, he's not a zero, but he is most of his, his best work is going to come after the catch. It really is. He is. It's going to come as a receiver. This is so,

and that means a lot to me. You mentioned the creativity and the dynamic ability that this guy had when when he was running after the catch that's what draws me to him and that's why i have him number four there's a quote from steve sarkisian his head coach from this year says quote i've been really proud of gunner gunner continued to work at it and i think the dedication that he made to himself and developing himself in the past game we saw glimpses of it last year but what he's been able to do this year, he's become a real weapon for us, a guy that can not only catch the ball, but also create explosive plays and make people miss in the open field.

That to me is a standout trait amongst this tight end group, because although there's a lot of future NFL players that we have talked about here on this show, there aren't a ton of standout future NFL players. And like we talked about with Arroyo and why Gunnar is a little bit higher than Arroyo on my list is just because he has showcased a little bit more of that dynamic ability when it comes to what he could do after the catch. He's also been somebody who I know coaches are going to love because he stuck around at Texas. You know, he's a former three star tight end. He commits to Texas under Tom Herman.

They fire Todd Herman, and Gunnar Helm has actually talked about this. He's like, dude, when Tom Herman got fired, he's like, Texas was a wreck. I mean, he basically says, I'm paraphrasing all this, but he's like, our culture sucked. Our grade point average as a team, he mentioned, was like 2.3 something like that. Like a two, like two flat or a 2.3. He's like, you had guys quitting that show up late to meetings. They didn't care. Sarkeesian, you know, year one, he starts to turn things around. You know, he starts to get the right guys in the building year two, year three.

And Gunner has been a part of that core that has changed the culture in Texas and bought in to be a future pro. You need to do. Yeah, absolutely he did. And so I think NFL teams are going to appreciate that a lot from him as well. How about this one? 73.9% separation percentage against single coverage. That's 91st percentile.

This dude knows how to set you up, how to run a route. And as a tight end no he's not going to be a blazer but when you get to that break point as you'll often see with tight ends there's those subtle ways that with physicality you create that throwing window you create that separation and he's able to do it so well and then obviously we've able to see what he could do after the catch so the strengths strengths and weaknesses from him, first of all, good core and grip strength, a wall-off defensive lineman. Now he's not a big people mover in the run game,

but at least he can wall you off. He's got that good grip strength, that good core strength. Balanced receiver after the catch. Decent sink to his hips for those change of directions. A good route running, nuanced potential. Good wiggle as a playmaker with yards after catch. Good hands to clear and create that separation from the break point, like I was mentioning. Some weaknesses, struggles against more powerful edge rushers.

Like you said, he's not going to really make his money as a full-time in-line blocker. Lacks that true punch at contact. Even though he can wall guys off, he lacks that true punch there. Sometimes the hands are a little bit wide when it comes to his fundamentals as well. But it's that yards after catch ability that makes him a tight end two type of a player at the nfl level so a hell of a year from gunner helm and uh yeah i got him i got him in number four right now yeah big fans of him for

sure all right so the top three which is guess, not a surprise in many degrees. I'll say this. I think three is more wide open than I initially expected. Three is way closer to four and five than is two and one. Harold Fannin Jr.? Correct. Correct. Yeah.

And then two and one for me, two is Colston Loveland. Tyler Warren was number one. I think both guys go in the first round. We have the same round I we have we have the same and we'll sort of dig into exactly what goes into that but we do have the same order here so Harold Fannin Jr. very excited to hear what you think of this player because what a unique prospect he is he is man he is a receiving machine I have him 6 3 2 31 are we in the same yeah i mean i he's listed 6 4 2 30 so i don't have any official measurements on him it would not shock me if he is 6 3 i had

his spring measurement at 6 3 2 31 i don't think i don't think he grew right Right. So let's call it 6'3". The weight. I think this is a guy that will come into the combine. If I was Harold Fannin, if I can go inside the mind of a Harold Fannin Jr., I would show up at the combine. It's the timeless video. I think about it at least still once every two months. Anytime somebody says, let's go into the mind of, I always just think of Greg Jennings.

Every time. When that video came out, I was a freshman in college, and we sat in the dorm room watching it on repeat, I think for four hours straight. So I would try to come into the combine at like 2.44 if I was Fanon Jr. I would not run. I'd work out but

i wouldn't run and then i think i would drop a little weight and run at my pro day let's get into it though what we see on tape before we get into all that stuff this is somebody who to be fair 2023 he had a big year he caught 44 passes yeah 623 yards six touchdowns then this year he goes college record setting nuclear with 100 catches for 1342 yards 64 first downs nine touchdowns very casual it's like it's the Trey McBride Colorado State he is the offense at tight end and you just don't see that very often now this is somebody who's used all over the place the last two seasons 56 snaps in the backfield 526 in line 321 in the slot and 180 at real outside wide receiver i mean that like legitimately like outside wide receiver, almost 200 snaps. 2024, some numbers that stuck out to me, Trevor, besides just the raw stats, 10 of 17 contested catch opportunities he hauled in.

32 catches of 15 plus yards. He's got big strides for build-up speed like his strides eat a lot of turf and he really builds up speed rather than generates short area explosiveness the he knows how to sell routes with really exaggerated steps head fakes i love him as an adjuster in the air when the ball's in the air no adjustment is ruled out for harold fannin j. He could find a way to kind of twist his body, use his base, time his leaps, use his catch radius. Some of the questions I have for him, once again, the short area explosiveness to me for a guy at 230-ish, maybe heavier, I don't really think it's impressive. I don't think he's short area explosive um i thought it was pretty mediocre i like he wasn't somebody where i was like wow look at him elijah arroyo

to me stood out as a short area mover more than harold fannin jr so i think harold's fannin jr is i i think he like lacks flexibility like i I think there's a lot of stiffness there. So even in his routes, I, I would still say he's explosive, but like for, for him to change direction, it like takes multiple steps for him to like stop and then turn, you know?

So it's not a, he's not a super agile straight line. He can build up speed. He can get, he can explode off the snap straight line, but you're right. The lateral agility is a little underwhelming for the numbers he has. At his size, you're just not going to play on the line of scrimmage at the NFL.

You're not. There's not really much to say unless he transforms his body type. And does that change who he is as this dynamic receiving weapon i found him more of a move blocker or slot blocker than an inline presence what but he can also block his ass off no he can but i don't see him lining up next to a tackle and taking on a six three yeah no no it's the weight it's but he that's the thing what It's, but he, that's the thing. He's, I think, it was kind of the same combo with Isaiah Likely once upon a time.

So that's literally my comp for him. Yes. I don't know what else to do with it. Same. But Isaiah Likely, everybody looked at him and was like, ah, he's this receiving weapon dynamic. But he blocked his ass off too when given the chance. It's just not all blocking is created equal.

Like not every tight end is going to sit on the line of scrimmage and combo block a d end or be able to take on a blitzing linebacker but if you play on the slot and you can erase dbs or you can block on it like as a move blocker coming across the formation that's still helpful so fannin is a very unique player he's not going to be for everyone but he's still a very impressive prospect in the right offense so just a little bit of background information on him because i think it's fun when when people can learn a little bit about this uh fannin jr former zero star recruit from canton ohio played both safety and linebacker in high school and was the team's kick returner and

punt returner too which sort of goes into his dynamic after the catch ability also played varsity basketball when he was in high school bowling green was the only offer that he had at a high school due to his grades he fell behind on school work during the 2020 uh covid pandemic so it was kind of like you know the school year was sort of all over the place and he sort of fell behind on school work there colleges weren't even sure if he would be academically eligible to qualify to play college ball. But Bowling Green stuck with him. Once he arrived on campus, he actually switched tight end, which was a position that he had not played in high school. But his coaches rave about him.

I was reading an article that his coaches, from one of the very first practices, were like this guy could be a future nfo player and i get it just they're right and i get it just you know looking at who he is he's a very unique player and he's not going to be forever he's he's almost he's almost debo samuel ish you know if he were to lose like 15 pounds he would almost be more of like a Debo Samuel with like how he's built and how he'd win. But Debo, again, is much more flexible and agile than Harold Fannin is. Now, maybe if Fannin lost weight, he'd become more agile, and maybe that's what he needs to do.

Maybe go from 230 and play more around like 220, 215, and become just more of a gadget player perhaps. An H-back almost? Yeah, yeah, almost like something like that. But, um, I wonder if that's the best path for him because again, I don't really know what to do with this player. He's a highly productive football player. I think he's strong as an ox for his size.

I think he's got really good explosiveness for his size, obviously all sorts of versatility and usage heavily productive player but the traits that i also really want to see from receiving tight ends is fluidity and he doesn't have fluidity and i think that his footwork is kind of a mess off the line of scrimmage um i think that sometimes he can run with his his toes like pointed outwards and so like it's almost like he's interesting he's not like he doesn't like have as much balance or he's not covering as much ground as he possibly could so uh that might just be like a flexibility thing like how he's built like his lower body but he's just a very unique football player um and it's

hard to find what to do with him it's hard to place him in this class so if i have more of a streamlined idea of what a gunner helm or what an elijah arroyo could do at the nfl level maybe i would bump them over held fannin jr but he's he's just because he's going to the senior bowl too fannin jr is right so we'll get to see him there and i think that's going to be a really exciting and important part of that week is what kind of a difference maker do we have here? Does he look like a legitimate tight end? Is he too small to play the position? Do we think he's got all sorts of versatility? What are his movement skills like outside of just being the emphasis? He's a hundredth percentile in yards per route run. It was stupid. It was like

3.34. That'd make any sense. Just nuts how much they force fed this guy the ball. He's 100th percentile in yards per route run. It was stupid. It was like 3.34. That didn't make any sense. Just nuts how much they force-fed this guy the ball. I mean, if he's running a route, there's a good chance he was getting the ball. He's getting the football. Right, right. But the percentile scores are high, like 62nd percentile against single coverage. 93rd percentile in yards after the catch.

He had a 0.82 wins above replacement average the only player who had high like that was higher than two of brock bauer's seasons yeah i don't know man i don't it's a really tough one it's just a really tough one i would love to hear from the addicts who are listening to this episode what do you think about harold fannin jr are you all in on this guy or do you have your reservations about some of the flexibility some of the limited route running the limited change of direction are you worried about that can you play him in line a lot uh do you have to play him on the outside would you play him as more of a gadget player like an h-pack type of a guy i'd love to hear from people i'll tell you right now how i see his fit i see his fit identical to what mike mcdaniel did with john new smith this year

i think it's a good call out john smith for those that don't live in the insane fantasy world that i am often in had 88 catches for 884 yards and eight touchdowns this year. Yeah. Like McDaniel found ways to get him working in space. Yeah. As a six foot three, 245 pound tight end. I think that's a,

I think that's a really good call out. That's going to be the usage for him. I mean, I draft Harold Fannin Jr. In the third round, just because I think he's too good. Oh, I need too good of a football player.

But the question is how, how much higher are you drafting a herald fanning jr you better have a plan you better like you you better not think like i just took the third tight end on our board no like i i know exactly the plays i want to use this guy for yep yep aka don't do what the jets did with malachi corley last year moving on that was yeah that was that was tough it was needed it was needed all right before we break down the top two tight ends in this class who we think would be first round caliber type of guys got a question for the people what does your child's success look like to you maybe it's a job they're passionate about maybe travel in the world or just being happy and comfortable whatever their journey is you can help make it easier for them to achieve

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Learn more at meetfabric.com. Colson Loveland, who I believe both of us had his tight end one going into the season. That would be correct, partner. Now we have him as tight end two. So he's a tight end from Michigan, true junior. He was not draft eligible last year. Felt like he could have left after Michigan's national championship winning season and been drafted very highly as well, but not quite draft eligible yet.

Plays as a junior this year. Went through some injuries, a shoulder injury, and then an undisclosed injury. I couldn't find what the other one was, but ended up missing three games this year. Michigan's passing attack just took a major step back in total production. So you don't want to look too much at the production numbers, but the receiving grades, the percentiles, how he performed when he was out there and healthy, still a very, very good football player. But what did you think of Colston Loveland? Lots of like here, man.

I mean, follows up a good 2023 with 56 catches in 2024, 582 yards, five touchdowns. This is a former Gatorade Football Player of the Year in Idaho. He was one of those guys that he played tight end in high school. A lot of top tight ends in college grow into tight end, as we've talked about. We're going to talk about Tyler Warren here in a second. Like he played quarterback in high school and a lot of different positions.

When you go through this exercise, these guys, they play everywhere, but Colson Loveland is a tight end true and through. And I think that comes with a lot of positives because there are nuances in his game that a lot of these guys just don't have Trevor. That's the thing with loveland i mean he plays obviously both on the line of scrimmage and in the slot he's got reps

where he can win outside like a true mismatch wide receiver he knows how to sell his routes you see the head fakes the shoulder fakes he really understands how to win leverage both ways like i need to get leverage inside i know how to do that i know how to win leverage outside you know he's a he's a smart blocker yes i think he's just a smart player yeah he's 245 so like he can be blowing anybody off the ball but but man it's it's it's a little bit like what we talked about from brock bowers you, where it's like pound for pound. Yeah. You're still all right with this. Completely. Really good adjustments to secure passes. I mean, two drops on 82 targets this year.

And if you watched Michigan's quarterback play, you would understand what this guy was dealing with. He is also, this is what will really help him at the next level. I think be a difference making tight end. He's phenomenal at improvising his routes to work with a scrambling quarterback when a when the play breaks down and the quarterback is on the move and it becomes backyard ball i think colson loveland is a plus plus the he has athleticism to be a blocker off emotion or just on the move in general he's only going to be he turns 21 the month of the draft I think so he either way here he's 21 his entire rookie season so there is so much to like about this guy I mean

yeah he's on the ground more than I'd like as a blocker I think he could arrive with a little more force at times as a blocker but like you said like it got better this year I thought Colson Lovelace he's a he's a pretty clean prospect overall. Yeah, as long as you're not looking for him to be something he's not, there's a ton to like. You know, if you want him to be a beast in the blocking game when it comes to just moving people off the ball in run blocking situations, yeah, it's going to leave a lot to be desired. But again, this is sort of why I separate move tight ends

and receiving tight ends versus guys who are more in line because I want those strengths to be able to shine. There's no reason why I should match up Colston Loveland with Jackson Hawes because they're literally not the same player. They technically play the same position, but they're going to be used completely differently. So when you look at Colston Loveland, you really just have to look at who he is as a receiver. So six foot five, 245 pounds. You love the size there overall, but dude, so much

to love about how he is a receiver. Very impressive athlete, even for a lighter tight end, long arms, big catch radius, natural pass catcher, crispy routes with good juice in and out of his brakes uh change direction flexibility to run all different sorts of routes you mentioned he's a great improvising option as a receiver for a quarterback because he has that ability to stop and start immediately like a lot of other tight ends do not have um that ability to do so when you look at some of the scores 96th percentile separation percentile overall 82nd separation percentile when it comes to going up against single coverage situations the yards per route run was very high 33rd percentile on average at the target at 8.2 40th percentile in yards after catch at 5.2 so that could be it could even a little bit more

dynamic after the catch yeah i think so but i see enough movement skills within his routes and how he runs without the ball to know what i can absolutely get playmaking a bit more playmaking ability i think it's just a mentality thing i think it's just a coach getting with him being like hey man you catch the football i see that you run up phil very quickly hit him with a little Hezzy, put your foot in the ground, make a miss. Let's get the more Smith tackles up there. He has the movement skills to be able to do it. So a very similar, I think way that we talked about Brock Bowers, we talk about Colson Loveland. Now I think Bowers was obviously a more productive pro. I think Bowers is a little bit more stronger. I think that Bowers has a little bit better blocking abilities, but it is that same archetype and where Bowers was sort of this like top 10 overall projection type of a talent. I think

Colson Loveland is that, you know, I gave him a late first, early second round grade as a tight end. So something right around, you know, anywhere from pick 20 to pick 40 I think makes a lot of sense for Colson Loveland and where you're going to end up selecting him so to me uh I I feel like this is a dude who there were parts of his tapes this year where I I was like man it's it's leaving a lot to be desired here from him but as sort of time went on and I watched more games it recalibrated to sort of what we saw from 2023, where it's like, all right, this guy's obviously somebody who's going to be a big-time weapon. It's just a matter of where he's going to be picked in the NFL draft. So that's what I thought of Loveland.

Yeah, I mean, and what we see, his stock really didn't change this year. I mean, he's just a really – I guess to be fair, there was little things he improved on. But overall, he's just one of those guys where it was good. He went into the year as a first-rounder, and he leaves the year as a first-rounder. Yep, so good year from Colston Loveland. But number one...

He doesn't leave his tight end one. He doesn't leave his tight end one because number one just went nuclear in terms of player development. And I had Tylerren as tight end four from summer but like this is he totally evolved into a different player yeah hey look kudos to you because you were way higher on him than i was at summer scouting i remember you pointing him out being like i just said he needs to catch the ball that was a huge problem so summer scouting was hold on i think i i think i had my yeah so i had him tight end six in summer scouting and you sort of but like there were a lot of those

guys that were in the like mitchell evans terence ferguson luke lachey like i i had him yeah benjamin urasic like i had him in that group of those guys, and I think you probably did too, but you had him at the top. You had him at, okay, of the guys within that next group who I could see separating themselves, you had Tyler Warren there. Not to say that you totally predicted what was going to happen this year. Of course I did. Right, of course you did. Kudos to you for being on top of it, man, and noticing that from him.

He was so much fun to watch this year. I mean, one, he brings you all-around tight end athletic ability. Six foot six, 255 pounds. He can block his ass off for you, but he's also a great receiver. He's fantastic after the catch. Really strong at the catch point. He's got the long arms to him. He's got the frame to be able to play in line. He's got the long arms to him he's got the frame to

be able to play in line he's got so much experience in penn state's offense playing in line but they'll also line them up at fullback to line them up as a wingback you mentioned that he was a former high school quarterback he was starting quarterback for their football team he also was a two-sport athlete in basketball and baseball too so this was was just a, oh, you know what's hilarious? So as if this guy's game wasn't blue collar enough, his hometown's Mechanicsville, Virginia. I mean, it couldn't be more perfect. The way that this guy plays is just as blue collar,

throwback tight end as it gets and he's from mechanicsville virginia all-state baseball player it's true i mean this is this is a yeah you just know it you just know oh my god uh massive human i interviewed him at Big Ten Media Day. That was about. Could he host a pod? He could own the podcast if he wanted to. Yeah, he's just a massive, massive human. Special athlete, man. It was cool to see. And I think we talked a little bit about the family history, right?

Just as his dad played at Richmond. Grandfather played awake. Sister played softball at East Tennessee. Yeah, super athletic family it's yeah it's wild it's just it just the way they use them this year was out of this world i mean the snap counts are hilarious right move center receiving center the craziest play i think i watched this year where the usc game is just they're throwing shit at the wall and he's it's all sticking yeah like they're blindfold hitting bullseyes over and over again and it's like how did they just do that yeah uh 69 snaps in the backfield this year 407 in line 281 in the slot 91 out wide he's just a mac truck going down the seam like he just blows by linebackers

and just out muscles dbs over the top if you want to own the middle of the field you're going to draft tyler warren that was that was my big takeaway he caught 26 first downs in the 0 to 19 yard range in the middle of the field like anything in that short and intermediate area was a first down for him 13 to 21 on contested catches he forced 19 missed tackles in the open field lowers it he wants to punish defenders the wildcat runs i i think this guy is the next great tush push weapon in the nfl i i really think so like obviously Jalen Josh Allen Tyler Warren I think if you're one of those teams you're like man you know what we're missing a tush push weapon I could see it I think he's going to be elite and I think when teams just sell out every defender to it I think he's going to sneak one by them and throw the ball because he can he threw a touchdown this year he could throw

so and let's not forget the blocking is just i loved watching this guy block it's not always perfect but man when he gets him he had a block against illinois at the goal line where he sent somebody to mars on a touchdown run like it's this is this is one of the dudes of this draft class man i if i would be ecstatic to walk out of this draft class with tyler warren 100 you won the mackie award this year as the nation's top tight end had 104 receptions over 1200 yards um threat percentage went up from 16.1 last year to 30.2 this year which is nuts uh believe he has the highest wins above average score for a tight end ever in a single season at 0.88. That's nuts. If so,

I mean, he is, he is such a complete, fantastic football player who you mentioned. It's just a dude. I mean, he's just, he is one of the football players in this class that you want to come away

with. The NFL is going to love and that the NFL is not going to let get out of the top 15 in this draft class. I mean, Indianapolis at 14 is the floor for Tyler. Right. And it i don't know if there's anymore he's that good right i'm i i could be with you man he so weaknesses that i saw so you really mentioned he's not perfect he's a bit stiffer to change direction so the route tree is not going to be you know it's not going to be a full 100 route tree from him he is a little bit stiffer to change

direction top speed does take a couple of steps to get up to you know he's not the most explosive but the top speed is great and I think it is certainly very adequate explosiveness for the NFL level he's got good strength as a run blocker you mentioned some of the big time impact blocks he has there are times when I wish he'd he'd latch on and he'd keep and maintain those blocks a little bit longer though so there are some reps where i wish he'd be a little bit more reliable there but you can absolutely teach that and then the other thing is i feel like he could stand to tempo his routes a little bit more against zone coverage and again these are all very little things he brings so much to the table but these are also all coachable, teachable repetition type of things that are the difference

between him being like, okay, well, yeah, he's, he's clearly a starting tight end at the NFL level to being in the same conversation as George Kittle and Trey McBride and Brock Bowers from this year at the very top of the tight end room when it comes to the NFL. So to me, I think that Tyler Warren brings you absolutely everything that you would want. I think Brock Bowers had a little bit higher of a floor of a player. That's why he was talked about higher. There are those things that I think that Warren can sort of get better at that Brock Bowers was already better at when he was making the jump to the NFL. But this is a starting caliber tight end.

Somebody that could absolutely be a tight end, one type of a player and a guy who is worthy of a first round selection from the position. Yeah. I think Brock was a better adjuster to the ball more natural. Yeah. But I think Brock just had a little bit more flexibility to him. Now he's a little bit lighter, but he did.

He did. But yeah,ren is he's a throwback player in a league that's kind of gravitating towards some throwback things yep i mean everybody just loves playing heavy and being able to run the ball i just man he's he's gonna make an offense a lot better for three downs and allow you to be multiple and allow you to play a lot of different ways and i'm really fascinated to see how high a team ultimately ends up valuing him especially when everybody kind of looks at and go why wouldn't the colts take him we might have to get ahead of them i think you would i think you're gonna have to get ahead of him because i think he he is he is fully fully in the scopes of the Indianapolis Colts.

All right, I'll go 15. I know we did 10, but I'll do 15 just because I got them ranked here. My 15 to 1, Ronnie Gadsden from Syracuse at number 15. Luke Lachey from Iowa at 14. Jalen Conyers from Texas Tech is at 13. Jackson Hawes from Georgia Tech is at 12. Jake Brenningstuhl from Clemson at 11. Caden Prescorn from Ole Miss at 10. Mason Taylor from LSU at 9. Terrence Ferguson froms at 12. Jake Brenningstuhl from Clemson at 11. Caden Prescorn from Ole Miss at 10.

Mason Taylor from LSU at 9. Terrence Ferguson from Oregon at 8. Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame at 7. Elijah Arroyo from Miami at 6. Benjamin Urosik from Stanford. Sorry, it was at Stanford. Georgia at number 5. Gunnar Hellen from Texas at 4. Hale Fanning Jr. from Bowling Green at 3. Colson Lovett from Michigan at number 2. And then number one at Tyler Warren, Connor, who was your top 10, 10 for me was Luke Lachey from Iowa. Nine was Jake burning stool from Clemson. Eight for me was Mitchell Evans from Notre Dame. Seven for me was Terrence Ferguson from Oregon. Six was gunner helm from Texas.

Five was Elijah Arroyo from Miami. Four was Mason Taylor from LSU. Same top three as you Harold fan and juniorin Jr. from Bowling Green at three. Colson Loveland from Michigan at two. Tyler Warren from Penn State at numero uno. We would love to hear from you. Let us know your thoughts on this tight end class. It's a lot of pick your flavor.

We said at the very top of the show, so who is your flavor of tight end in this class? Who's a guy who you go, all right, maybe outside of the top couple of guys, this is my guy. Stamp the my guy approval here. Would love to see that in the comments, the guys that you're going to ride for. Even if it's tight end two, it's somebody you go, man,

they're going to be a tight end two, but I think they could be a tight end one or at the very least a big-time contributor to a future NFL team. Best way to do that, youtube.com backslash at NFL Stock Exchange. If you're audio only, at Tampa Bay Trey, at Connor J. Rogers. That's how you can hit us up on Instagram and Twitter. Connor, you got anything else before we get out of here no that sums it up we're gonna stay busy on the feed i know we have a lot of travel ahead too but uh we're not going anywhere so coming up next here on this channel uh we've got an interview coming up with jim naggy the executive director of the senior bowl we're going to be able to preview the senior bowl with

him so we'll give you guys that interview is our second episode that we have for this week Coming up with Jim Nagy, the executive director of the Senior Bowl. And we're going to be able to preview the Senior Bowl with him. So we'll give you guys that interview as our second episode that we have for this week. I am going to be at the Shrine Bowl. So here on this channel, I'm going to be giving you guys a lot of shorter updates. We're not going to have, because Connor and I won't be there. And traveling to and from all-star events is a little bit difficult. So we're not going to have a specific or multiple episodes that we have shrine and senior bowl week.

What we're going to do is after all these practices, I'm going to try to give you all sorts of YouTube shorts with practice clips, with updates, who is standing out these guys that are being major difference makers first at the shrine bowl. And then we will do the same thing for the senior bowl. And then of course, the end of the week.

We got that ever coveted, highly anticipated, can't miss it. Multiple round post-Senior Bowl and Shrine Bowl mock draft. So that will be coming next week after these events are over. But just wanted to give you guys a heads up of how we are covering those events. Keep your eyes peeled for a lot of content that's coming on the YouTube shorts side of the feed. We're going to try to build that out and try to continue to build the following. Give you guys some good content that way. So that's the plan.

There we go. Connor, anything else? No, we will be together quite shortly. Let's go. I'm excited. In-person pods, in-person content. It's going to be running around the senior bowl. Yeah.

You talked to a layout to Latu for four hours last year. We'll see who your new best friend is this year. Me and him are pals. Me and him are pals. It was a great, a great shot. We'll have to see, we'll have to see who I'm going to be pals with this year.

I don't know. I don't know. Stay tuned everyone. Chipotle on the, on the sideline. So, all right, everybody appreciate everybody watching and listening to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast.

For Conor Rogers, I'm Trevor Sikaba. We'll see you guys next time. you