NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 32. Guest Mock Draft Series: Top 10 Recap, Commanders & Vikings

Episode Date: April 5, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers continue the Guest Mock Draft, first by talking with Austin Gayle about the Top 10 picks, then chat with Ben Standig and Arif Hasan of The Athletic for picks 11 & 12 for Washington & Minnesota.

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a blockbuster trade between the Saints and the Eagles. Trevor and I will break it all down for the bright future in Philly, and maybe the Saints have something much bigger up their sleeve. The guest mock draft series continues to roll on. On the clock today, we got the Washington Commanders with Ben Standing from The Athletic

and the Minnesota Vikings at 12 with Arif Hassan from The Athletic as well. But before we get into the two new picks, we got to look back at how the top 10 went and our friend Austin Gale will be joining us for that. So a ton going on in the NFL draft world. I'm Connor Rogers, joined as always by Trevor Sykema. Let's ring the bell.

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange. We got the guest mock draft series rolling. We are back on track with the Washington Commanders at pick 11 and the Minnesota Vikings at pick number 12. But we do have to look back at a little recap of how the top 10 went. So our buddy Austin Gale will be on for that. And for Washington, we have Ben Standig for the Vikings. We have Arif Hassan, both from the Athletics. So Tre Washington, we have Ben Standig. For the Vikings, we have Arif Hasan,

both from the Athletics. So Trev, loaded show today, man. It's going to be a lot of fun. We're excited. But first, we had a bomb drop before our Monday live mock draft challenge with the Eagles and the Saints making a huge trade that shakes up round one of the draft.

So we're going to open today getting into that, dude. The hits just keep on coming. This draft board changes every single week at this point yeah this is now the second time i think within two weeks that you and i have recorded a show and then a team made a major trade that changed the draft order and then it's not in show number one i had to we had to re-record the intro of this show because you're right. Philadelphia Eagles, New Orleans Saints make, I'll say a blockbuster of a trade, man. It totally shook things up. And so what ended up happening is the Saints now have picks 16 and 19.

So they were originally just picking 18. Now they have 16 and 19 from the Philadelphia Eagles. They also have picked number 194, which is much later in the draft. And Philly gets this year's number 18. 16 and 19 from the Philadelphia Eagles. They also have pick number 194, which is much later in the draft. And Philly gets this year's number 18. They also get a couple of picks later in this draft, the 101st pick, which,

and then the 237th pick. And they get a first rounder next year and a second rounder the year after that. So essentially what Philly was doing was they were taking their lump of three picks in the first round of this year. And they tried to spread them out a little bit yeah they moved one of the first round picks from this year got an additional first round pick next year and then the year after that they got another day to pick in the second round so it was it was i i thought connor it was a great move by philly i loved this move by philadelphia because loved this move by Philadelphia because, look, this draft class is not as good as last year's draft class.

That's just the way that it is. It's a little bit more of a down year. Now, that's not to say there's not going to be good players in the first round, but putting all of your chips, if you will, into this draft class when you don't have to, I think would have been not foolish, but it just wouldn't have been maximizing what philly had in their pocket this i think totally does i love the fact that philly spread things out this is multiple years now where they've had multiple first round picks and i love the power that they continue to command every single year in the draft because they're willing to be flexible

this is how the draft is done, man. Love this move by Howie Roseman. I agree, dude. I think it was an awesome move for Philly and it doesn't mean it was a bad move by the Saints. We'll get into the Saints in a little bit, but when you look at Philly, this is the masterclass of flexibility. You don't need to walk out of this draft with three first round picks. There's no need for Philly to do that right now. You're not this team that's, you know, completely rebuilding from the ground up and you need all these foundational pieces

on the same timeline. You're not this team also that's just completely in it to win it, but you are a team that you're making your future flexible in a sense that you're going to get two good players this year. There's no doubt about that. But when you look at next year,

now if Jalen Hurts doesn't work out this year or you become enamored with the CJ Stroud or whoever it may be, you now have the ammo, the flexibility to go up and get one of those guys. Forget quarterbacks. What if, Trevor, what if one of these teams can't come to an agreement with one of their star wide receivers? They play out the season and they go, ah, we'll figure it out again in the offseason. And that guy becomes available for a trade.

Like we saw with Devontae Adams. We saw with with Tyree kill we saw it Amari Cooper this year now you have extra ammo to go out and get this big time playmaker if one becomes but you can do anything if you have extra draft capital each year for Philly that was the goal and I love it like you said it's like splitting your cards right here now you have extra you have tons of extra ammo this year you got tons of extra ammo for year. You got tons of extra ammo for next year. And before we get into the Saints, I want to remind you guys for PFF right now, you can get 25% off any PFF subscription if you use the code NFLSC. What can you get with the PFF subscription? You know the deal by now. All of PFF's locked article content, the NFL Draft Guide, completely

unlocked Mock Draft Simulator. If you watched our live show on Monday night, you saw the simulator cranking. It was a really good time. It's an incredible tool and resource for us here on the show. 2002 for agency coverage, the rankings, the contracts, the thoughts on all the players, data and grades from the entire 2021 season. Obviously, that's going to be a thing for 2022 as well, and much more.

So support the pod and use promo code NFLSC for 25% off any subscription. All right, Trevor. It takes two to tango, man. The Saints were in this trade. Right. And they become the more pressing team. Like, Philly, cool.

The future looks bright. You still got picks this year. Now all eyes are on New Orleans. You're sitting there and looking at it going, why? Why did they do this? And I'm not one of those people that's like, they got fleece. This is dumb.

I want to see the full picture painted, hung up in the museum before I judge it. The saints got to have something big up their sleeves right now, man. Right. And you know, we referenced it on the live show that we did on Monday night, but you and I had heard that the saints were looking to get aggressive

about a week ago. And we heard that from a couple of different people. And I, you know, I've, I heard people kind of like say it in passing at the combine, but it wasn't, it wasn't super concrete. Now it actually happens. Now they get a lot of flexibility and I think they're targeting a major move up. I don't think that this is for the Saints to sit back at 16 and 19 and just make two first-round selections. I think they have their eyes on making a major splash. And the two areas that my eyes immediately go to with this, if they're going to move up into the top 10, which it seems like they're loading up the ammo to do,

is for either a quarterback or an offensive tackle. Now, a quarterback is interesting because they brought back Jameis Winston. It's a two-year, $28 million dollar deal so it ain't chump chains like it no it's starter money right it ain't like jamis is playing for nothing you know it's got 21 million dollars guaranteed so he's really there it's it's not like this is just something that they're barely given any faith to they're putting their money where their mouth is with jamis and of course it's not a franchise quarterback deal but like i said there's a good chunk of change there so it's not a total afterthought so they might want to move up and it might not be for a quarterback they might want to

help jamis winston there's a realistic possibility that the saints move up to number five with the giants number seven to the giants you know to probably not eight with the falcons because it's the same division but maybe nine with the seahawks or maybe even with the jets at four, like who knows. So it just all depends who they want to target and how aggressive they want to be here. If you combine, you know, if you're using the NFL draft value chart calculator, which isn't the be all end all for value, but pick number one's worth

about 3000 points. Okay. When you look at, and it goes down from there, obviously the value of these selections, when you look at pick 16 and 19, they combine for, for 1,875 points. So that gets you right about into pick four for the jets is is 1,800. So that's right around that value. So anything around picks four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, or even go all the way up to nine. You know, if you get all the way down to nine, then maybe you get to be a little bit more flexible, maybe not have to deal two first round picks.

But ultimately, I think that they're moving, they're looking to move up into the top 10. Maybe go up and get a Hugh Kwanu. Maybe go up and get Evan Neal. They just lost her on Armstead. They're looking to move up into the top 10, maybe go up and get a heat. Kwanu, maybe go up and get Evan Neal. They just lost her on Armstead. They can be targeting those guys. Or of course the other side of things. Yeah.

It's for a quarterback. And if they want a quarterback, I think new Orleans is eyeing number five overall. Cause they want to get in front of Carolina. I think they absolutely want to get in front of Carolina because the more I think about it and the more I hear, the more I'm convinced that Carolina is going to pick a quarterback at six. Yeah, I think so too. I think that it's not a matter of, you know, if they take quarterback,

I think it's more leaning towards which one between Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis. And you have to wonder, do the Saints have any plans to disrupt that? And, you know, going with my gut feeling, no. I think they're going up for a premium player that's not a quarterback. But things change quickly in this process, man. All I can say is coaches come out of the free agency and they do a crash course on the draft. And that happens for, you know, latter half of March, early April.

The meetings take place between the front office, the scouts, and the staff. And the staff says, I want this guy. I like this guy. They come together and make plans. And things change really quickly. So if you can hear a couple months ago, a team has no interest in taking a quarterback this year,

they can sell themselves on going to these guys' pro days, meeting with each other, all those things, the workouts. So it's fascinating, man. And it's yet another domino. And it's not the last one in this there's no way the saints sit there with both those picks and go okay no we just wanted two players that was my that was my only other question to you is do you think they're moving up i absolutely think they're moving up i think they're absolutely i think they're fully prepared

to use both these picks to move up somewhere into the top stepping stone that's what this was yep yep totally agree with you well let's get back to the guest mock draft series. Before we get to that, got to talk to you guys about a new presenting sponsor that we have on this podcast called jock market is jock. And then MKT, uh, is, is the company's name, their motto, stop betting, start trading. It's a really cool concept that, that marries daily fantasy with regular fantasy football that you would think of. And it's such a cool concept. You buy and sell shares of players in real time for real money while games are happening. All shares have guaranteed cash payouts at the end of the night, which gives it the daily

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They're giving away thousands of extra dollars in prizes for the first couple of weeks of April. So now is a great time to get in and start trading. That's Jock Market, jockmkt.com backslash PFF. If nothing else, guys, go to the website, check it out. Look at the video. Connor, this is such a a cool concept man i i love having fun with it i i love having a presenting sponsor on the podcast because it obviously means the podcast is doing well we get paid which is nice i get to pay my bills i don't have to get evicted but i think that this is such a cool

concept and such a cool thing that we get to promote here i've been having so much fun with it especially this time of year. Obviously you and I are both big hockey fans. It's been fun to dabble in on the NHL daily markets. It's going to be awesome over summer with baseball that I can't imagine what it's going to be like for football. So if you're one of those people that you love, even the coolest part of it is just betting low on players that you know are

sleepers and better than everyone else to outperform expectations. So it's been a lot of fun, man. Can't wait to keep it going. All right. We got picks 11 and 12 of the guest mock draft series coming up. But before we get to that, as Connor said,

very special guest, the one and only Austin Gale is joining us to recap the top 10. We'll get into that right now. Okay, so picking back up with the guest mock draft series, we have 10 picks down. The top 10 is in the books. We wanted to have a special guest here to talk about the top 10 because connor and i wanted to recap it we wanted to give you guys a little bit of a

break but we wanted to get some outside thoughts on it too and who better to talk about mock drafts than half of the tailgate podcast you know them you love them it's the one and only austin gale austin thank you so much for joining us here to recap these 10 picks absolutely thanks for having me so all right i'll i'll read them off for everybody i know i just did previously but because we're restarting the segment here aiden hudgson went number one overall to the jacksonville jaguars trayvon walker two to the lions kyle hamilton went three of the houston texans uh came on tibidow went four to the new york jets charles cross five to the new york giants evan neal six to the carolina panthers

new york giants then took sauce garner at number seven jordan davis eight to the New York Giants. Evan Neal six to the Carolina Panthers. New York Giants then took Sauce Garner at number seven. Jordan Davis eight to the Atlanta Falcons. Derek Stingley Jr. to the Seattle Seahawks at number nine. And then around out the top 10, it was Iki Ikuonu to the Jets for their second first round pick. Austin, when you see this list, now this, we had obviously a guest on

for each one of these picks. So it's a different voice, it's a different reasoning. And we try to keep it a little bit more towards a what they would pick. We talked about a little bit of what the team would do as well. But when you look at this list, what stands out to you right away? Any fits?

Any surprises? Where do you want to start with this top 10 as we talk about it here? Yeah, I think, you know, to start with the positives, I really do love the Kayvon Thibodeau selection to the New York Jets. I think at number four overall, they have to lock into a premier high paid position,

either offensive tackle or edge at number four overall. I've seen some mocks where Drake London has gone that high or, or my Garner has gone that high. I think going edge, whether that's Trayvon Walker, if they're high on him or cave on Thibodeau, and then you have any of the opposite tackles, right? Aki, Aquano, Evan, Neil, the two guys that could be available at that spot.

I think them locking into one of those is great. I think Kayvon Thibodeau is an ideal situation for a New York Jets team looking to add significant pass rushing help opposite of a healthy, ideally healthy Carl Lawson. I think it's an opportunity to speak to just, I think what is a lot of ridiculousness around Kayvon Thibodeau's fall or-

I was gonna ask. I was gonna ask you about this. Yeah. A lot of media driven fall, in my opinion, I think so much of the concern and the interview process. I mean, you have some articles coming out saying he's a very poor interview and all this stuff. I think a lot of it is driven in, in self-confidence and what is from older, you know, older generations in the league seen as uncoachability, right? And I think uncoachability is very black and white,

when it's not like uncoachability for, for And I think uncoachability is very black and white when it's not. Like uncoachability for someone who has their own cryptocurrency or releases NFTs is just intimidation, in my opinion. I think there are a lot of older coaches, a lot of older evaluators that are intimidated by a lot of the newness that Kayvon Thibodeau brings to the table. And that's billed as negative connotation, right? It's billed as other interests and he doesn't eat football leather for breakfast. And it's like those types of players, right? Those types of players are spoke to very positively because they're easier to coach, right? A guy that just eats, breathes and sleeps football and is nasty on the field and doesn't care about anything else is seen as very easy to coach or understanding by, you know, a lot of

older coaches, whereas that's changing, right? That's changing teams and players or players specifically are looking to maximize their brand opportunity, maximize themselves. And that a lot of that does involve off-field interest, right? Aiden Hutchinson is doing a four-part podcast series with PFF. He's also looking to maximize his value working with Nike as a branded athlete, all these different things. So Kayvon Thibodeau, I think it's a lot of it is, is racially driven. It has to be right. It's racial biases that live in our, you know, live in our lives every single day. And it's also just a lot of people intimidated by a guy again, that doesn't just eat, breathe and sleep football. So I think at number four overall, he's a massive value. I

think he's one of the best players in this class. I think he should be even in consideration for number one overall. Awesome. When you looked at this top 10, what's something that caught your eye as maybe a surprise, maybe a, Oh, I have not thought about that a lot, but now that I think about it, it's not that crazy. What's the pick in here or maybe a couple picks in here they're like wow that would really shake up the top 10 of this draft so i think it's an opportunity to speak to the rise uh i think it's always a media driven rise right these guys aren't rising on nfl team boards as much as they are on media boards right people are catching up to the tape and so to speak so trayvon walker right now minus 450 to be a top five pick when he was billed as early january as a late first round type of player because the tape and so to speak so trayvon walker right now minus 450 to be a top five pick when

he was billed as early january as a late first round type of player because the tape and the production maybe not the tape but the production specifically is not of a high-end player right among all players on true pass pass rushing situations which are non-play action non-rpo uh dropbacks you're looking at a player that only rushed you know got uh home on 15 of his rushes that's ranks outside the top 150 among players of the last five years according to pff however there's there's opportunity there right with them go back and watch the tape he lines up head up or inside the defensive tackle or uh offensive tackle more than any other edge player in this class he only has roughly 500 snaps played in his career outside the tackles. Aiden Hutchinson has tripled that,

right? It's a lot of experience driven stuff and, and usability, right? His usage at Georgia was not geared towards two way goes pin your ears back and go get the QB. So much of it was run first. And that's not excuses. That is reasons driving his low production profile. That's reasons driving, um, you know, situations where he doesn't have a ton of sacks or doesn't have a ton of tackles lost compared to other players. Now that doesn't mean it makes him more predictive. It's harder to predict, right? There's more of a projection with Trayvon Walker than there is with Aiden Hutchinson. And when you talk to evaluators in the league, so much of what they're trying to do in the draft is not necessarily figure out what they're going to be, but it is mitigate risk and mitigate questions,

right? There are questions about Walker playing outside the tackles more. There are questions on whether he can win in these two way goes if given the opportunity, because you just haven't seen it. Now, one of the biggest things you'll learn as an evaluator, I think very early on is just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean they can't do it. One of the best examples of that is Justin Jefferson did not have a lot of success at 19 years old, playing outside receiver moves into his slot for his junior senior season. And he has a lot of success in the slot build is maybe a guy that maybe can't create on the outside he does and he does a very good job of that so i think trayvon walker is similar in that regard right justin jefferson rose up boards because of a very good

combine and you did see some good tape but in usage maybe you won't see in the nfl walker i think is a very similar player obviously i think that think that we're, you know, we're in a different conversation with Walker because Connor and I did our edge ranking episode not too long ago. And I had Walker outside of my top five guys. I am his edge six in the class. And from what I saw on tape, I felt like Walker was kind of like an early second round grade player on tape, but with the added athleticism, you figured that he was going to go to go in the first round well there's a massive difference between going in the first round and him basically being a top five lock at this point so my question to you and and we've talked about this a little bit before but i want to hear what you think on it are we essentially just treating trayvon walker now like we treated jadavian clowny when he was coming through because clowny was

it's not like it's a one-on-one comparison, but you remember like Clowney wasn't the most refined pass rusher. Like we even see that in the NFL. It's not like he's the sack master, but it was an unquestioned pick with him going number one overall, simply because you cannot pass on an athlete like this. And Trayvon Walker is bigger and faster than Judea and Clowney was. And we had that opinion with Clowney. Is that basically just where we are where okay the tape isn't screaming top 10 player but we're all we're almost all at this point where the it seems like the nfl is just accepting it the way that judeavian clowny was i think the clowny situation is different i think you're i mean you're on the

right page right i think but like with clowny going back to that you know that draft i actually had khalil mac ahead of Jadavion Clowney. There were effort concerns on tape. You had the stuff about his knees, right? He's got like four-year-old knees. And there are, he was playing positions out South Carolina that he plays in the NFL. And he's playing them very similar

to how he played at South Carolina. I think with Walker, the difference is, is he is a one-of-one size to athleticism combination. One-of-one, like you, I don't, this is one of the most absurd combines we've ever seen from a player. And he just wasn't used as he's going to be used in the NFL, right?

He's more often going to be used as an outside the tackles type of pass rusher. We need to see that. We need to project that, right? I think Rashawn Gary is a little bit different. He's consistently compared to Trayvon Walker, this athletic freak that didn't have the production. Walker doesn't even have Gary's production.

10 grade points lower than Rashawn Gary's highest graded season at Michigan. The difference is he did not play a lot until this year. And when he did play, it's very new, right? It's inexperienced from purely from a play's perspective. And he was playing a position that we just have to project differently in the NFL. I just find it so odd in a draft class where we have a Hutchinson who's going to go before him. So that's not really a fair one to throw in here, but a Th class where we have a Hutchinson who's going to go before him. So it's not really a fair one to throw in here. But a Thibodeau, a Jermaine Johnson, players like that, that this class is littered with.

And people are still at the point where, and it seems like it's going to happen, selling themselves on the projection of Trayvon Walker rather than what we've already seen with Thibodeau. And what we've seen with Jermaine Johnson. I know not everybody agrees with this. I don't even think it's close. I think I'd take Jermaine Johnson every single time over Trayvon Walker by about at least 10 to 15 picks. And I just, to me, it's a, and I know he's a great run defender, Trayvon Walker, but in the top 10, you are not drafting a player to come in and be a great run defender and

hopefully in three to four years, be a pretty good pass rusher. That's my biggest concern and biggest question with him and i know you guys share that opinion so this is kind of me just yelling into the void right now i do think though to bring up you know i think dionte lee who's now formerly with pff now writing for the athletic one of his first pieces he wrote for the athletic was comparing walker tibideau and hutchinson i think he outlines it really well lowest floor in the class lowest pass or between those three lowest ranked floor lowest ranked pass rushing but up there with the best potential. Right. Right. Right. Could be is what drives teams taking him inside the top five, because what he could be is better than what Jermaine Johnson could be.

What he could be is better than what Aiden Hutchinson could be if you figure it out. And you have these conversations with scouts. I was talking to a New Orleans Saints scout over at the combine. He said so often are teams taking guys that they are betting on being better in the NFL. Once they get effective coaching, I'll tell you what, I'm not betting on coaching Trayvon Walker better than Georgia did though. That's the difference, right? Troy Trayvon Walker, wasn't getting bad coaching at Georgia. You could have different conversations about Marcus Davenport at UTSA. I think that's, that's the difference I think I have with Trayvon Walker. I don't think it's no coaching change. It's going to do different. It's literally playing him a different

position and doing it for more snaps. He has less than 600 career snaps in college playing outside the tackles. That is, that's not a good enough sample size to have legitimate projection to him playing that position in the NFL at a high level. Yeah. I feel like the more that we talk about this class, it feels as though, you know, when we reference it, even the last year's class, we go, okay, well, it's maybe not as talented as the, at the top, you know, you could look at a lot of picks in the top 10 last year. That might be the number one overall pick this year. And it's just, it's just a different level and you're going to see gms i think be on two sides of the spectrum either playing it really safe like with prospects that they know have a really high floor or you're going to see more gms like be desperate if you will and

just take these swings at the bat for these guys that have this crazy athleticism or things like that uh as we go throughout the rest of the top 10, we've got Charles Cross going five overall to the New York Giants. We got Iggy Aquano going all the way at number 10 to the New York Jets. I mean, what do you think about those two offensive tackles? We've seen them go at a variety of different places. I think Cross is typically mocked

at either the Carolina Panthers or somewhere in the teens. Here he goes number five. And then Iggy Aquano, man, there are odds with him maybe going number one overall, and he falls all the way to number 10 in this mock draft. What do you think about those guys? Yeah, I'm going to be pretty cut and dry here in that I just don't think that's going to happen. I don't think Charles Cross goes inside the top five or even the top 10.

Bruce Feldman came out with the mock draft. He's one of the most connected players in the league. Doesn't even have Charles Cross going in the first round. Like, that is how much lower the teams in the league is perception-wise. I mean, that's how much lower it seems that the league is on Charles Cross. Charles Cross has fallen outside the top 10 on Daniel Jeremiah's big board all the way outside the top 20. And that is often reflective of what he's hearing from inside the league.

Same with Bruce Feldman, not even including cross in the first round of his mock. The team that's crazy. Yes. All it is, it is obvious. The league is lower on cross in the media. And like a lot of that ties back to people not trusting the Mike Leach scheme or whatever it is it is obvious the league is lower on cross in the media and like a lot of that ties back to people not trusting the mike leach scheme or whatever it is pff is significantly higher on cross he has him we have him as his ot1 that's where mike renner currently sits so i don't think he goes at five new york giants i think he ultimately evan neal is the more likely pick

there if they do lock it off the tackle and i think i'll be hard pressed to see ikea quanu pass the reed i really do think the houston te Texans are going to lock in on Ikea Kwanu. I agree. That's where his, um, his, his current draft prop is right. I think it's under three and a half at minus one 30. I think Houston Texans are right to lock into again, premier player at a premier position, the second highest paid position in the NFL is off at the tackle. Why would you be taking safety or corner receiver in that slot? When you have blue chip players like blue chip talents and kwanu neil at the top i think that's ultimately where it goes yeah if i was writing a mock today of what i think will happen with those first three picks i think it would be

hutch walker and then icky um so i think you're right on it there and you know going back to cross i talked to somebody in the league that has a very i'll just say a very good handle on offensive linemen coming out each year and and it's. Like that's generally how there's a difference of tiering. There's the Neil and Icky situation. And then cross is not in that tier where for the media, more often than not, including myself, like you said, Renner having cross offensive tackle one, I think he's in that big three. I like Icky better. There's no doubt about that, but I group Icky, Neil and cross right there. And usually guys, the truth lies somewhere in the middle across probably goes in the first round he's not going to follow the second round but cross probably there's a good chance he doesn't go in the top 10 picks so it's going

to be interesting to see how that one plays out last one for you awesome before we get out of here we've got a group of guys sauce garner going seven in new york giants jordan davis going eight to the atlanta falcons there's a bit of a surprise. Derek Stingley. We got going number nine to the Seattle Seahawks. Any of those three stick out to you? Because I feel like all three of them could have raised some eyebrows when our guests ended up selecting them on the pod.

I do think Ahmad Garner is going inside the top 10. I don't think he gets past the jets at 10. I think Atlanta would be smart to take him at eight. And hell, I think that's the first time I've seen Ahmad Gardner going to the Giants at seven. And I know Shmuelk is really connected, obviously, with the New York Giants. I could see them in the near future moving on from James Bradbury to a point where cornerback really opens up as a need for the New York Giants.

So I think Gardner going at seven is also not all that big of a surprise. Hell, he could go forward to the Jets, right? Jets lock into the corner and don't like Thibibido for whatever it may be because his cryptocurrency is falling down stocks but i think for jordan davis i i'm i'm past the point of trying to get you know i'm past the point of saying you know position value position value jordan davis is one of one another guy that like you legitimately you talk about projectability you're projecting a very high floor player that has rare athleticism in the tape to back it up like Like he, his role in the NFL will be a two gapping on the nose, run stuffing, defensive tackle. It's very similar to what vids will fork off with the new England Patriots. And that has increasingly

more valuable, increasingly, increasingly more value in the NFL. As we continue to play more too high looks, right? The more we run too high looks and the more we try and pull people out of the box, the more we need 400 pounders on the nose, taking up offensive linemen. Jordan Davis has way more value than he's given credit for way more value than other defensive tackles in this class. You can talk about Devante Wyatt versus Jordan Davis. Devante Wyatt is not as good of a pass rusher enough to overcome the fact that Jordan Davis can legitimately eat three human beings on the inside. So Davis going inside the top 10, I don't think I'd be stunned by, I think he's a lot to go inside the top 16, staying on that 16 because the Eagles have the 15th and 16th overall pick as for stingley

only reason he's coming down boards from what i've heard it's very similar to the tibeto situation doesn't love football not an alpha not a chirpy corner not an alpha is you know what's being consistently thrown around doesn't play through injury it's like okay this is a situation at lsu that like was legitimately deteriorating as ed orgeron hanged out more off the field right you want to talk about a guy right you guys i know ed orgeron loves football but man he was in a situation where a lot of other things were being prioritized at lsu stingley a part of that as well and also you know had a lot of injuries right i think stingley is objectively a top 10 player in this class when i see him falling to minnesota

at 12 or baltimore at 14 or the e at 15 or 16, that screams value, right? Screams value. Now, are you going to ask him to clap on a receiver's face and play through, you know, you know, wrists and ankle injuries? Probably not, but you are going to ask him to cover a corner. He'll cover receivers better than any corner in this class. And I think that's ultimately what he'll do. All right, there we go. Austin, we appreciate you giving the analysis here for these top 10 picks. Also appreciate you saying the word cryptocurrency twice in this podcast because it does have stock exchange in the name. So the SEO, man, you're just bumping it all the way up for us. So appreciate the analysis. Appreciate that little bump in the SEO as well. Thanks for joining us, dude. No problem. Thank problem thank you all right starting back up in the guest

mock draft series pick number 11 we're outside the top 10 now first pick it's number 11 it is the washington commanders and here joining us to help us out understand everything that's going on in washington which there's a lot that's always going on in washington ben standing he writes for the athletic one of the most plugged in guys around the NFL. And Ben, one of the most accurate mock drafters, right, over the last couple of years. I want to give you your props here. I appreciate that. Yeah, I've had some success in a couple of the national mock drafts. It's more interesting now when I'm covering a team as much as I am, as opposed to sort of thinking broadly around the league.

You can kind of lose track of a lot of stuff, but it's mock draft time. You got to get into it. That means that you're just a plugged in guy. I'm trying to help you hype you up a little bit, make sure that our listeners know that this right here, this next 15 minutes or so, it's going to be muscle listen for him.

So you mentioned it, you kind of honing in on Washington. That's your team that you cover very closely now. And I teased on it a little bit there but there's always something going on in Washington and always the biggest storyline that we have this year well that's probably not true I guess on the roster I gotta even be even more specific than that is the Carson Wentz trade what right what was Washington going to do with their quarterback situation it ends up being Carson Wentz and I'm curious kind of take us through how that exactly happened the mindset that this team is in with

quarterback right now because we weren't sure okay were they going to be drafting one at number 11 were they going to try to trade up for one what were they going to do it ends up being Wentz how did we get to this point yeah so I think let's take it back even before the start of last season, I did a one-on-one with Ron Rivera. And at that point, Ryan Fitzpatrick was still an able-bodied quarterback, but he was also an older quarterback. So in my head, I'm thinking, at some point they're going to have to draft a quarterback. So I asked Ron Rivera the idea of drafting one. And he said, the problem that teams run into is that they try to force quarterbacks into

play too early as a rookie and if they're not the first second or third pick like he had with cam newton carolina that can cause some guys to take a it caused some setbacks perhaps which i kind of buy into for the most part so when it came to this point i was like well they're picking 11 i don't really see me them going the quarterback route but so i know we all have gone through this whole conversation. Can you pick it Malik Willis, whatever. I've been focusing on primarily, though, on the veteran route. The question was, you know, what could they do?

I didn't really buy into the Russell Wilson stuff. I knew they would try, but, you know, just didn't think that would take place. But I think what became interesting is, like, once you got down to the Mitch Trubisky level, and I don't know if they were that convinced that any of the guys that were potentially targeting were going to want to sign with them. And then if you're staring at the Teddy Bridge, even Trubisky isn't necessarily a huge upgrade

over Taylor Heineke, but somewhat, at least from an athletic and potential standpoint, I think they were like, we've got to do something. And I think that's where Carson Wentz came in. It was, yes, they gave up a lot in the trade in terms of picks and the contract, but they were able to secure him he is technically under contract for three years i know there's a lot of questions with him but when he's right he's a pretty talented quarterback so i think they decided we've got to do something to get sort of off the

hamster wheel they've been on a sort of mediocre to non-interesting quarterbacks last couple years that's why they did what they did ben you kicked off the week with a really interesting article of you know just where everything is with terry mclaren right now and the extension whether it'll happen whether it won't this wide receiver market exploding in ways that quite frankly i think a lot of gms were not prepared for internally so when you look at this situation it obviously impacts their acquisition of whence mclaren has had back-to-back thousand yard seasons it's amazing what he's been able to internally. So when you look at this situation, it obviously impacts their acquisition of Wentz. McLaurin has had back-to-back thousand yard seasons. It's amazing what he's been able to accomplish considering their quarterback play. Do you see them being in a situation where they're

like, we're going to pay him whatever he wants. He turns 27 this season. He's entering his prime. He has to be here. Or do you think because of where this wide receiver market has now gone, that it's become a little bit more complicated? Well, it's a little more think because of where this wide receiver market has now gone, that it's become a little bit more complicated? Well, it's a little more complicated because of the money. I mean, obviously, you know, Tyree Kill and Devontae Adams, forget those initial sticker prices, shock sticker prices that we hear. Devontae or Tyree Kill basically is $25 million for three years, you know, annually for three years.

It seems like you can't really compare Terry McLaurin to Tyree Killer Devante Adams based on what they've done that said those other two guys had Aaron Rodgers and Patrick Mahomes and I'm not saying that if you flipped it all that Terry McLaurin would be doing what they're doing on the other hand maybe maybe I mean he's really talented and you know it is a big difference between having those quarterbacks versus what he's had here in Washington. So I think Washington kind of has to make a determination. Yeah, they need to help Carson Wentz a lot. That's what McLaurin is going to be.

Is paying him 20 something million dollars ideal? Of course not. But that's kind of where the market is. And I think hisclaurin side has washington a little bit over the barrel not only is he really talented you know he's been a pretty pristine individual on off the field he's a locker room leader the as we know there's a lot going on here off the field if they were to somehow let him go i would be another disaster from a pr perspective on top of everything that's going on so i think they're ultimately gonna have to pay him i think though as we see when you take

on a carson wentz at 28.3 million cap it this year now potentially take on mcclure and zeal which would have kicked in really next year you're gonna have to make some other roster choices and that's where i think it starts to get really interesting for them. So let me follow up. Here's the question that I have now. You have him, A.J. Brown, D.K. Metcalf. They were all guys that, fortunately for them, there are no fifth-year options there. There might be a little bit urgency from their sides internally to get this done.

Do you think the fact – is there going to be any rush, you think, from any side for one to get it done? Because you know the follow-up is always going to want more money or they rather you know and i know you're specifically focused on washington but you think they'd rather stare each other down and wait this thing out i'm fascinated when you look at those three different than tyreek and davante like you said but younger and ready to get paid for the first time and the leverage seems to be in all three of their hands right now absolutely i mean all these players are in

you know pretty good in spots in fact right none of those guys including deba samuel none of them are playing with a dynamic quarterback yeah at proven one at least that puts more leverage on the receiver side because obviously tyree kill is a great player but you gotta have to figure on some what level whoever is patrick mahomes is throwing to is going to be successful maybe not as successful but successful it's not the same when you're dealing with a Carson Wentz or a Drew Locke in Seattle if that's how that plays out so the receivers do have leverage and you're right the first one that goes may set the table for the next three guys there will be an interesting game here to play out for what it's worth i believe i'm right the other three are all represented by the same agent so i believe that's even going to be another

factor there because he's going to have a lot of say in what what happens here makes the timing very interesting doesn't it of when these guys get deals done and what they get to negotiate and the power they get to have there i want to ask you about the the roster overall because this year three of ron nevera right it's seven win seasons in back-to-back years they go out and they trade for carson wentz kind of something different at quarterback but you know we went into last season thinking that washington could be a top five defense in the nfl when you looked at things on paper talent wise didn't end up being that and this past offseason you know they move on

from landon collins maddie united is gone brandon sheriff is gone and they released eric flowers as well right like there's a lot of different movement that they've had throughout the roster they brought a couple of guys in some offensive line additions as well and bringing back some dudes there but where does this team believe they are because picking at number 11 it's just it it's kind of that in-between area like are you going to get aggressive, maybe move up, think that you've got to go get somebody who's a big-time difference maker? Or maybe is Washington a contender to move down? Do they think they need more picks?

Where does Washington believe they are right now? Yeah, I think they believe in general that based on the roster they have, which is their better players are younger ascending guys so that is a benefit obviously terry mclaurin chase young antonio gibson uh montez sweat you know those guys are their core players and others and and they're younger guys so that's a good thing the defense obviously underachieved massively last year they've got to figure out a way to get that defensive line better uh chase young is coming off of an acl so that you know we'll have to see how he recovers in theory though the defense should be better in theory uh and then with carson wentz for again for all the concerns

he is still an upgrade on certainly on paper and probably in reality over what they've had the last couple of years so if they can avoid the chaos of injuries, the way they've been unable to the last couple of years, and you're in a bad NFC East division, I believe they have the easiest strength of schedule as it stands right now. So there's reasons to be like, well, if they can just sort of be where they were a year ago, why can't you get to nine or 10 wins under that scenario? So I think they're viewing it from that perspective.

Is that the right perspective? I don't know. It really is going to come down to what you think of Carson Wentz. Can he, you know, he's, nobody's going to compare him to Aaron Rogers or Matt Stafford, but honestly like a year ago before Stafford wins the Superbowl, would we have said that a Wentz Stafford comparison is insane? Probably not. I mean, not, not, not, not too nuts trevor's looking at me like i'm not so who knows i would have but i'm also a stafford stand so like there are other people who definitely

would have had stafford closer to the tier of went so i just you say that is like okay i wouldn't have but i do understand your point yeah i mean i'm not saying this or i would have i'm just saying from a you know conversational standpoint it's not insane mean, he's obviously now had coming off a rough year with a cold, at least from a perception angle. So I think Washington's views that they made an upgraded quarterback and if they can get everybody else up to snuff and avoid all these injuries, they should be okay.

My question is the depth has been really good for them the last couple of years and it's helped them stay afloat. They've lost a lot of depth now though on the defensive line, in the secondary. They haven't added an offensive playmaker yet i think you can argue that they probably should do that or you know so it feels like they their perception of their of their situation maybe is reasonable but they haven't done enough beyond the quarterback to for me to be like yeah they've taking it to another level they've been aggressive enough to really think they for me to be like yeah they've taking it to another level

they've been aggressive enough to really think they're going to contend in the nfc so two picks in the top 50 but also that's their only two picks in the top 100 so this team obviously needs to uh really you know make make good with those selections you said it playmaker we see it mocked to them a lot it makes a ton of sense. We talked about quarterback a lot, especially before they got Wentz. Ben, what's maybe a quiet need for them? Something that you see the general public missing with them that might not be in play at 11, but with that other top 50 pick, 47,

that you're looking at and going, man, I really think they need this. It's missing on the roster and nobody's talking about it. Yeah, I mean, I know when you look at a lot of the advanced metrics from last year their offensive line gets graded pretty high but they lost brandon sheriff their best offensive lineman in free agency their other guard eric flowers they let go replaced him with andrew norwell we'll just argue and say let's just say that's a break call it a push yeah yeah you know

well i'll leave it to the uh to the O-line experts to say otherwise. But obviously, it's a loss with Brandon Scherf. Now, they do have a guy in Wes Schweitzer who has subbed in before. But, you know, could you go with an offensive lineman here in the draft? I know it's not considered a deep group for interior offensive linemen. And at 11, it doesn't really look like that's where you look at the big boards. It doesn't look like that's a great option there. But if, you know, could you trade down with a team that wants a quarterback,

perhaps get down to the late teens and twenties, maybe a guy like Kenyon Green makes some sense. I think that's something to consider. And then also at 11, you look at their defense. Their secondary last year was a bit messy, especially early on. They don't really have an obvious third corner slash nickel back, especially after letting Landon Collins go, who was this sort of Buffalo nickel for them last year. That could be an option, I think, at 11.

You know, Sauce Gardner is probably gone, but Derek Stingley, is he sitting there? I think that's a position we don't talk about enough. Linebacker is another one, but I just don't know if a game of 11 is where I see that, especially they just took Jamin Davis in the first round last year. That would seem to probably be a bit much, but they do need another linebacker. Well, let's put you on the clock here at number 11. You mentioned offensive playmaker, probably the direction that they're going to go in

the first round. Well, in this guest mock draft, none have been taken. So if you want to select one, you got your pick of the litter if you will so at number 11 if the board fell this way who would you be taken for the Washington commanders at 11 yeah I'm not convinced they will go receiver because I think they like their younger guys but if the based on the board you're presenting to me, man, I really do like Drake London, the wide receiver from USC a lot, the red zone size, you know, the games I caught of theirs last year, I just was really impressed. And look to have that guy going opposite Terry McLaurin,

you're giving Carson Wentz a lot to work with. So it's hard to argue giving him another playmaker. So yeah, for me, I'd go Drake London, the wide receiver from USC at number 11. Love it, baby. Yeah. No argument for me, man. so yeah for me i'd go drake london the wide receiver from usc at number 11 love it baby yeah no argument for me man no argument for me at all i think that makes a lot of sense and that would go a long ways for carson wentz throwing a terry mclaurin and drake london next year there's just there's there's so much to like about london specifically i think for washington being able to compliment what terry mclaurin already does because you know it just felt like and and ben you could you can talk to this and either say that I'm, I'm right or I'm wrong on it,

but it felt like the deep threat that McLaurin was, you know, when you have a player who is that reliable, who is that good deep down the field, normally it's a double-edged sword. If you will, you've got to cover him deep because he can burn you deep, but then it also opens up a lot of stuff underneath. And it felt like Washington just didn't have those players to really get the most out of what McLaurin was able to do outside of that individual production I feel like a guy like Drake London can certainly do that do you agree yeah absolutely I mean look Washington's second leading receiver last year was JD McKissick they're running back with 399 yards he missed like the last seven games you've got logan thomas he had an acl tear in december that's their best

tight end and you know that they have some high hopes for diami brand their third round pick from last year but you know we'll see how that goes the terry mcclern has been a basically a one-man show since he entered the league they've got to figure out a way to either get you know scheme things up to get him a little more open to get somebody else involved or in this case to add another guy who would be a huge threat and to give carson wentz you know that that a big target i know drake london is a receiver not a tight end but but carson wentz loves throwing to the tight ends i'm sure this there's probably the this the where they are on the field but also the size is probably going to be a factor so I would think that London would be an appealing target

on all fronts so um yeah I mean it it's very exciting to imagine what that could look like for sure um to give Tamra Claude an actual viable other option across the field I love it there we go first wide receiver off the board in this guest mock draft series. It is Drake London going number 11 to the Washington Commanders. Follow Ben on Twitter at Ben Stanek. Follow all of his great work over at The Athletic. Ben, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it, man. Guys, I appreciate you having me. Thanks. It is the Minnesota Vikings joining us to explain everything going on in Minnesota with a team. That's a lot of changes over the last couple of months. My good pal Arif Hassan who works for the athletic Arif. Thank you so much for joining us here on the guest mock draft series. Yeah. Thanks for having me right before wedding season too.

I'm pretty excited. Oh yes. Yes. It took you about seven seconds to get that one in there. So that was incredible. That was good incredible that was good that was good that was good i wasn't even i didn't even you know what i didn't even think of that and that's on me that's on me i gotta be better for it i let go of it for a couple of months right so i had to i lured you in you did man you just i'm a rat to a piece of cheese my neck just got right through him an absolute alley-oop there and he just slammed it home.

All right, so there have been a lot of things that have been going on with the Minnesota Vikings, specifically head coach and GM. It's new people in the seats there. Rick Spielman, Mike Zimmer, they're out of the building. And they were with the Vikings for a really long time. Obviously, you know that. Don't have to explain that to any Vikings fans that are listening to this. But my question is, was this the right time to make the moves? Kwesti Adafo-Mensah, I think a lot of people have a lot of hopes for as a young GM.

And obviously the same thing for Kevin O'Connell in the head coaching seat. But, you know, when it came to replacing the two guys that were there before them, was this the right time? Because it's not like these guys were terrible, right? The records were never bad, maybe a little underachieving at times but do you think that this was the right time to move on from these guys and get some new people in the seats in minnesota i think so it is really difficult to find a head coach that hasn't had a ton of success and like a couple of playoff wins and after seven years being the head coach

that'll take you to the super bowl right like that that is a pretty rare situation. And obviously the whole reason it took so long was because they were doing a pretty good job, right? They had assembled a very good roster. A lot of people expect them to at least be a wild card. Some years win the division. They did win the division a couple of times. And so, you know, it wasn't a bad coaching staff. It obviously wasn't a bad personnel group, but in terms of the goals that the Wolves have, you know, the goal is to win the Super Bowll. Right. And so being good enough is never good enough. Right. And so I think that that was, there was, was kind of the thinking there, which informs the way that the Vikings have been approaching this off season, because if the whole reason that you're getting

rid of the coaching staff is that they're not, uh, is they're underperforming. They're not doing as well as they should be with the talent that's available on the roster, which, you know, that's an open debate, but if that's the perception that the ownership has, then the new coach and the new GM have to come in and win right away. Um, because you know, that the whole point was that they weren't winning with the current group. So, um, under that framework, I think that that makes sense. If you were going to blow it up, I think that, you know, blowing it up with, you know, Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman, I think that's justifiable. I still think you probably want a new staff, but I think that, you know, blowing it up with, you know, Mike Zimmer and Rick Spielman, I think that's justifiable. I still think you probably want a new staff, but I think that's more justifiable.

But if the question is, why aren't we achieving as well as we should be, then, yeah, absolutely. It makes sense to move on from a group that's been together for about seven years. So, Reef, when you look at it just from afar, we've seen them, you know, they're going to continue to go on with Kirk Cousins even a year longer than we thought. Daniil Hunter is still there. It feels like they are a team, as we describe on this show, that's a little bit in between right now. They are operating in a sense that they still feel they can win the division. But we also know when these new hires are made, there is an expectation that there will be significant changes. So I know it's early, but from you getting to know Adolfo Mensah and just zoning in on the front

office right now, what differences do you think they have? Will there be philosophical differences? Will there be, you know, what do you expect the changes to be to get this team? Like you said, and it might not be this year, might be two years, three years from now over that hump that they've struggled to do so, so far. Yeah. You could say we're in a bit of a honeymoon period with Adolfo Mensah. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's pretty difficult to figure out. Good word choice. Very curious word choice. Yeah. It's pretty difficult to figure out kind of everything that encapsulates Adolfo Mensah's philosophy. I mean, he's been more available than GMs typically are more available than the Rick Spielman has. And so I guess transparency is going to be a big part of it,

which is nice on my end, but in terms of trying to figure out what they're going to do it's still kind of wait and see, I think after the draft, we might have a little bit more of an understanding of the differences between the two. But I think part of it is that there's probably going to be a greater sense of, and here's a huge buzzword that's been floating around all off season collaboration between the head coaching staff and, and, and the front office staff. Cause there's always been a little bit of friction between, uh, Zimmer and Spielman as much

as they try to work together. And I think that here, um, there's significantly less of that kind of tension. And I think that, um, going forward kind of what it means to build a good roster is going to be kind of more unified in terms of the vision that they have. So that's going to be part of it. Um, but Spielman was always kind of like analytics friendly, right. Which is kind of the thing that people, uh, characterize Adolfo Mensah as, which is fine. You know, he is, um, but you know, in terms of his approach, I think that kind of this like forever learning thing, um, where he's always trying to like figure out something new or try to figure out kind of more about the way that football operations work or or additional ways to to figure out the game that's going to be a big part of the process and so i wouldn't be surprised if you know the way

that his philosophy develops here in 2022 would be different than the way his philosophy develops in 2025 right and so that's kind of the question but in terms of the moves that they've made none of the moves that they've made seem like moves that Rick Spielman would avoid, right. They seem like something that he would do. Like he's, he's had, you know, free agency periods with one or two big off season signings, right. You know, obviously Kirk cousins is one and some that didn't work out like Alex Boone. Right. But you know,

they've re-signed a lot of the same roster. They've made some mid-level moves that I think you could count as bargains, you know, Harrison Phillips instead of Michael Pierce, you know, is a pretty good example of that. You know, Harrison Phillips instead of Michael Pierce, you know, is a pretty good example of that. You know, some starting-ish, replacement-ish level interior offensive linemen with Chris Reed and Jesse Davis. You know, these are all moves that fit Spielman, right? Because he doesn't sign three or four star free agents. Maybe it's one in a particular class.

And then there's a bunch of deaths to fill out a bunch of moves to kind of aggressively preserve, you know, the salary cap. Maybe they're doing a little bit more in terms of like void years to try and push stuff down the road. But I think that's just true across the NFL. I think that once that tool became kind of widespread, every team started doing it a little bit more. So I wouldn't even say that that's a huge difference here. So for right now, it's a very similar philosophy and approach. And maybe the execution of that philosophy is going to be a little bit better. Maybe that's what they're counting on.

But it is a very similar approach, maybe more collaborative. The bachelor party phase. We're in right now. All right. Okay. Okay. All right. All right.

Come on, Connor. Come on, Connor. I don't know how I'm supposed to talk about the marriage between Adolfo Mensah and Kevin O'Connell. You know, it's just chemistry. It's a big timing. You know, it's all it's all there. All those all those marriage buzzwords. So I asked this question of Ben Sandico we had on for the Washington team right before you. And it's it's kind of the same thing, because when I look at Washington and when I look at Minnesota,

not that they're the exact same situation, but I kind of have this overarching question of where do they believe they are right now? Because you've got the Kirk Cousins one-year extension, and okay, maybe that means they're leaving them at least for the short term, but it's not the super long term there. You look at some of the veterans that they have on their roster, and Arif, you know this, in order to be a successful team, you've got to really marry the timing between older guys who are playing well

on bigger contracts and younger guys who are playing well on rookie contracts but when you look at some of their biggest impact uh veterans it's guys like adam thielen it's guys like daniel hunter and there's rumors swirling of okay they might not be in minnesota that much longer well okay if you're moving on from those guys then we almost headed to a full rebuild in minnesota so my question for you is just where did where do you think this team believes they are and how that might impact how they attack the first round and i guess beyond here in this draft yeah same place as alyssa they are under the false impression that they're getting a ring soon for sure that's the best one whatsoever with that one if anyone listening didn't get the jokes by now there it's it's right there on a platter for

everyone now that was straight to the point i have to respect it i have no choice but to respect it yeah uh i mean it's tough right because they're a team that uh 45.4 winning rate over the past two years right and so it's very weird to think hey you team that uh 45.4 percent winning rate over the past two years right and so it's very weird to think hey you know this team's pretty close to winning at all but that that's exactly where they think they are i think um they they look at the injuries that they've sustained over the past couple of years you know they missed daniel hunter for half the season last year the full season the year before um they missed anthony bar for essentially a season and a half they missed eric kendrick's for about half a season over that spirit a period of time um you know they they look at that and they think you know

a much healthier roster is going to compete and i i get it but like the vikings have been more injured than most teams on defense and less injured than most teams on offense significantly and so um i don't really think that like injury luck is playing a pretty big role in terms of holding them back. I just think that where the injuries occur, it's very easy for you to think that, well, a healthier roster is going to do it. Right. And so they certainly think that they've got devoted to beat within the division. Of course, the Packers trading way, Devante Adams makes that a little bit, I think, more

tempting and they might be able to win the division because, you know, you've got the Bears and the Lions. Right. And so if you can overcome the Packers and Aaron Rodgers, which they've been able to do some years, certainly it seems like that that's within reach, but that, that, that, that is a weird way to frame the goal, because honestly, you need to be able to say, I can beat the Rams. I can beat the Cardinals. I can beat, you know, these top end of CT. I could beat the Buccaneers. Right. And then you have to say, yeah, whoever the best team in the AFC is,

whatever that juggernaut produces, we can beat them too. And it just, you know, you watch Josh Allen play, you watch Patrick Mahomes play, and you're like, yeah, that's a different sport than whatever the Vikings are doing, right? So it's just like, it doesn't feel like it makes, but they absolutely think that they're there. And I think that the pivot point was that Kirk Cousins extension. If they weren't able to get that Kirk Cousins extension done,

I think that they would have pursued opportunities to trade players like maybe Adam Thielen, maybe Eric Hendricks. There were four or five players that were rumored to be on the trade block at one point. And I don't think that that comes out of nowhere. I think that there was a reason for it. But I think that they made a decision based on whether or not they were going to have Kirk Cousins over the next two years. And once they were able to secure that, once they were able to know that they were going to have him for the next two years,

they decided to move around and go all in and decide to open up cap space by pushing money down the road, sign Darius Smith, sign some players that they're pretty excited by, and go in. And right now, you take a look at the roster, You say, hey, there's a couple of holes here. There's a couple of holes there. But it is a much better roster than the beginning of free agency, which you always hope for, but it's not always the case for teams. And certainly, if you stack the Vikings up on paper, right, and you say, hey, they've got maybe the third-best edge rushing unit in the NFL.

They've got a reasonable defensive line. They've got maybe the eighth-best quarterback group in the NFL. You stack them up by paper. You can see why they feel like a competitive team, right? Like you say, Hey, Eric Hendricks, Jordan Hicks, that can work. That's a pretty good linebacker unit. Harrison Smith and Cameron Bynum. That's a pretty good safety unit, right? You can see why you stack that up and you think, Hey, all of these units are above average. Why not us? Right. Yeah. What's the missing piece? Yeah. And so I think that that's it. I think they think that coaching is going to, is going to be what takes them over the top, especially because they're a much better offensive team than they

are a defensive team and have been for the past three years. Uh, and, and now you bring it in offensive coach, uh, to really maximize that. And you can really begin to buy in like, Hey, maybe this could be a top five offense, which it be right um and any top five offense is ready to compete in theory right like as soon as you achieve a top five offense it's very easy for you to convince yourself you've got a potential at the super bowl so i think that's how they arrived at the conclusion is that first they're able to make sure that they got kurt cousins they reduced his cap hit they know that they can compete for the next two years with him and then you look at the rest of the roster and it looks ready to compete all right let's get to the pick a little early here because i feel like no matter what direction you go the vikings are a team at 12

that you could be like well what about this what about that or so i think there's a lot of follow up here uh compared to our other picks that we've had in the top 11 so 12 the minnesota vikings arif you're on the clock and you know i will preface this by saying it's been an interesting board that it's not a surprise sauce gardener's gone but derrick stingley's gone and that's been a hot pick for the vikings at 12 um we've seen our first wide receiver come off the board recently at 11 you know with trick london so not that crazy there but i'm very curious where are you going with the Vikings 12th overall selection? There's a, there's a bunch of really good picks here. It would be, it would be fun to add, you know, Garrett Wilson to that group.

That would be a ton of fun in terms of, you know, the goal of competing this year for the Vikings kind of fitting that theme. I want to fill in and resolve a big hole. And right now they've got two holes interior offensive line and cornerback. Right. and i want a long-term answer a cornerback and a short-term answer a cornerback because patrick patrick's not gonna be there forever but i don't super love the value proposition here mostly because not because i dislike trent mcduffie i think that he's a very good player and he'd generally be worth a pick around this spot um but because if i take a look at the kind of the horizon of

draft picks in the second and third round, um, I see cornerbacks that are really like, and I don't know that that's the case at the other need at the interior offensive line. I really like these, these interior offensive linemen. And so I'm more comfortable over drafting an interior offensive lineman here than I am a cornerback. And so that leaves me, I think with two players that I think are system fits, right? Like I like the Texas A&M guard. I don't think he's a system fit. I think for the other two, Zion Johnson and Tyler Linderbaum, I'm looking at these players and I think, how can they kind of help the Vikings as you would want? And so between the two, I'm going to pick the center Tyler Linderbaum. I think that it's going to be just a little bit easier given the free agency

group and the draft class to find a guard. No one's going to be as good i think as zion johnson but i defined a guard than it is to find a center that's going to be capable so i'm picking linder bomb from iowa i recognize that i'm overdrafting a player here and i also recognize i'm going against my own philosophy i love positional value i would much rather get a cornerback here but i also know i'm going to get more at cornerback in the second and third round then i'm gonna get a center of guard so that's that's kind of my thinking here and linderbaum i mean just from a pure player perspective if you ignore positional value linderbaum is phenomenal yeah he's such a good player yeah so go ahead go ahead i was i was just gonna say you're not gonna get any pushback from us i mean like we we absolutely love tyler linderbaum

and you know when it comes to positional value obviously we work for PFF. So we have to condemn this pick with, with every fiber in our being. No, but like when you look at this situation, I think that you are, you are attacking it the right way because positional value is obviously important. You want to more often than not prioritize the positions that are going to give you the most return and the highest ceiling when it comes to the premium picks but at the same time the draft is about picking good football players and linderbaum is a good football player so you know you don't want to make a living off of doing things like this but i do think that in this instance especially if those are the two positions that you're weighing you laid out a case to where it is logical to take a guy that you know is going to be really good help that offense like you said be a potential top five offense and so that's kind of where i'm

coming from i love that you got linderbaum off the board this at this point this early because connor and i love him i'll jump in here too like and i know reef this is your pick but for regimes making their first pick ever, you just don't want to miss. You have the fear of like, you want to come out and you want to get some kind of peace. And I mean, Linderbaum for me, he's right now my fifth overall player. Um, we, we thought he would make it almost, you know, outside the top 20 picks and we think that's wrong. So I think there's also some also some you know theory here of for a new regime it would be really nice to come out and get one of the rare bona fide studs of this draft class

yeah and uh you know if trevor had allowed me to trade down i would have because i think that either linderbaum or johnson would have would have lasted at least 18 or something like that where i'd be comfortable trading down um and and so that would be kind of the area where I'd kind of wrestle with the most, you know, if I'm the Vikings. But certainly I think it establishes that the Vikings think of themselves as a team that's going to win with their offense. It establishes themselves as a team

that certainly values, you know, kind of what an offensive line can bring, while also finding ways to address that unit without, you know, overspending in terms of the cap. Obviously, in terms of draft capital, they're spending quite a bit, but I think it also means that they're not afraid of the regime's past failures, right? Because the draft of Gary Bradbury in the first round,

fairly high, I think 18, I want to say if I remember correctly. And, and you know, that pick, obviously it didn't pan out. Linderbaum is very similar to Bradbury in a lot of respects, you know, maybe it's not quite the reach blocker, maybe it's got a little bit more strength, but you know, he is very similar to Bradbury in a lot of respects. You know, maybe he's not quite the reach blocker. Maybe he's got a little bit more strength, but you know, he's very similar to Bradbury in a lot of respects. And so you can see why, you know, you kind of shy away from that, but in terms of, I think building a team,

I think that you've got a really good opportunity to, to be an offense forward team while getting somebody that you think has a relatively low chance of busting. I think right now, if you take a look at the mock draft aggregates, which is basically my job for this month, he's about 23rd, 24th on the board, and Zion Johnson is right around there. So certainly I'm not getting perfect pick value, but I definitely think that I'm constructing a better team

by focusing on cornerback a little bit later in this one instance where I don't you know have an opportunity to grab Stingley yeah Trevor not allowing Arif to trade back holding him back from being great just like in my relationship right yeah all right so I had to I had to give myself a zinger right there before we got out of here everybody go follow him at Arif Hassan NFL on Twitter follow all of his great work over at The Athletic Arif as he mentioned there does a great job of really collecting a lot of these mock drafts, a lot of this information that you're going to see over the next couple of months and comes up with a lot of really great consensus, uh, mock drafts and rankings for where players are going and, uh, all that stuff. Does that come out week of the draft? When are you, when are you putting that stuff out there? It should be,

uh, like maybe the Friday before the week of the draft or something like that. Certainly it's going to be pretty late in the draft process because um everybody on your side of the industry is always pretty late getting me me yeah what never what that's uh spot on as i sit here and i am one of the most guilty culprits of that i think every last hour possible my one-man show i i think uh you know when when i was with the tdn people last year i'm pretty sure we waited until there were 60 seconds until the deadline for all of us to submit our huddle mock like our last mock draft that we did for the competition i'm pretty sure at least me and crabs me and kyle crabs last one minute that we did for the competition. I'm pretty sure at least me and Krabs, me and Kyle Krabs last one minute that we had, we were taking every little ounce we had. So, um, look, I'm sorry for making your job hell in that regards, but it is awesome work that he's doing. Make sure

you guys are subscribed to the athletic. So you can check that out or reef. Thank you so much for joining us, man. Yeah. Thanks for having me, man. All right. There you have it. 12 picks down in the guest mock draft series. We got four picks coming at you for Thursday's episode. We got the Houston Texans at 13. We got the Baltimore Ravens at 14. The Philadelphia Eagles at 15. And then yes, part of the big shakeup, the New Orleans Saints picking at 16.

That's coming to you on Thursday. We'll see you guys then. Thank you.