NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 36. Guest Mock Draft Series: Top 20 Recap, Pick For Patriots & Packers (With Dane Brugler, Evan Lazar and Peter Bukowski)

Episode Date: April 14, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers are joined by draft media legend Dane Brugler to recap the Top 20 of the Guest mock draft, plus get Dane’s general thoughts one the draft. The two then pick back up on the Guest Mock with selections for the Patriots and Packers at 21 and 22.

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I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. On this episode, we are recapping the top 20 picks of the guest mock draft series with a very special guest. Plus, rolling on with picks number 21 and 22, the New England Patriots and the Green

Bay Packers in the guest mock draft. Before we get to that, Connor and I have a little bit of fun and we talk about a player that isn't getting first round love that we believe has a chance to sneak into the first round on day one of the NFL draft. That's all coming up. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me as always, my co-host Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I am Trevor Sigma. That is Connor Rogers. And we are here today to recap the top 20 in the guest mock draft series with a very special guest. then get right back to it picks 21 and 22 new england patriots and the green bay packers before we get there connor how are you doing my friend good man mr good morning football over here looking like a star looking your hair was

absolutely prime ready to go the voice the energy uh i absolutely loved it man so an honor to be here with you. Oh, get out of here. I'm honored. I'm honored. Loving it. Having a good time, man. It was fun. Obviously, that's, you know, Good Morning Football is a show that I watch shoot almost every single day. And so getting to talk with Michael and Peter and Kyle and Kay and just get to talk some NFL draft with them. That was a lot of fun. That was very cool for me. So I appreciate the shout out there. But hey, before we get into the guest NFL draft with them. That was a lot of fun. That was very cool for me. So I appreciate the shout out there. But hey, before we get into the guest mock draft series, before we jump right back into that,

Connor and I wanted to have a little fun before we did. Hey, just want to let everybody know you can get 50% off. That is 5-0 off of a PFF Edge. No, sorry, PFF Elite. It is the better subscription. Elite. PFF Elite annual subscription. If you use the promo code

draft 50 draft 50 is how you make that happen if you don't have a subscription now is the time folks go get the draft guide and the fantasy football guide and all the betting tools over the next year 50 off use the promo code uh draft 50 to make it happen what connor and i wanted to do is we wanted to have a little fun of an exercise and say, okay, we've done enough mock drafts now to where we think we know who's probably going in the first round. But who is one player who is not getting first round love that you think could actually sneak into the back end of the first round? We each picked one prospect maybe

we'll talk about some others as we go on through this exercise but connor who is the guy that you think is underrated when it comes to a potential first round selection in this class right now i think it's arnold eva katie from penn state and i haven't seen him in a first round yet if that if that has happened i apologize to everybody well you and I tried very hard to pick players that traditionally are viewed as day two guys. Now, when I look at Iba KD, right, really the only thing on paper that you look at and go, okay, that's a bit of an outlier is his size. He's about a little, a hair over 6'2", 250, and then everything else is tremendous. The growth he showed from Temple transferring to Penn State, the production,

the hand usage, the ability to flatten in the pocket, some of the most violent hits in this entire draft. Obviously, a very athletic player, 38-inch vertical, you know, the 4-6-5-40. More importantly, that 6-9-5-3 cone is almost an elite number, such an important number for edge rushers. Yes. Trevor, I look at him, he reminds me a little bit of Yannick Ngakwe, who has been a highly productive player that was not taken in the first round of the NFL draft. Traditionally hovers right around double-digit sacks every year in between that 8-12 marker. No matter where he goes, he's been a traveling man, but a productive player. So I look at Ibikedi and go, man, in a deep edge rush class, he's been a little bit lost.

We've heard a surge recently from Boye Mafe going in the first round. We've had Karl Loftus there for a very long time. We know all about Trayvon Walker, Aiden Hutchinson, Kayvon Thibodeau, Jermaine Johnson. This is the guy to me that ultimately, I think he's going to be more in that top 40 range, but can end up being one of the most productive defensive players in this entire draft class and he tested the way you would want him to right when you have to at that size arnold abacate a film you go okay this guy can get off the ball this dude can explode out of his stance and you want to be able to see that explosiveness in athletic testing and you're right you mentioned

it 38 inch vertical jump he had a 10-foot, 8-inch broad jump. Both of those numbers in the 90th percentile, 91st and 96th. So he tested the way that you would want to. And I think that's really important when you confirm what you saw on film. Because we often talk about the combine where we go, whoa, that number is crazy. Well, was it expected? Is it crazy high? Is it crazy low?

Does it force you to go back to the tape? Instead, you really just got to check those boxes for labakate and say that yes this is where this guy wins and however you value him whether you what you saw on tape you see as a first round prospect as a second round prospect as a third round however you measure him you were probably confirmed of what you thought so if you thought he might be a first round pick, which I've heard some whispers of, and it's why I think this is a good selection here, then you were justified there.

So I do like this selection here from you. Where are you going with this? Who's the guy that you're looking at and saying, you know what? Haven't really seen him in a lot of round one mocks. I would bang the table for him at the end of round one. Okay, so I don't think he's going around one but i could see a path where a coach absolutely talks himself into it leo chanel the linebacker from wisconsin okay he is just so unique of a

player and we've got some unicorns in this draft right we talk about trayvon walker and everything that he was able to do at the combine. Jordan Davis as well, right? There was some crazy speed from the skill position players. And there's been so many guys that have been captivating the headlines that I feel like Leo Chanel is going totally under the radar with what he was able to do, okay? Look, six foot two and a half is what he measured up at.

250 pounds as a linebacker. Four, three, or four, four, three or four four three four five four five three 40 yard dash as if that wasn't impressive enough a 40 and a half inch vertical jump 10 foot eight inch broad jump sub four so a three nine four uh 20 yard shuttle and then a sub seven, six, eight, four, three cone. All of those numbers, Connor, all of them are above the 90th percentile. This dude is a nuts athlete. Now, he's a little tight, so it doesn't really show up in exactly how he plays,

whether that's in pursuit or in coverage, but to have a guy display this athletic ability, 34 reps on the bench press as well, which is also in the 98th percentile, for him to show this ability and for him to have the tape that you see. I mean, to quote TikTok, anybody who follows any kind of football news on TikTok,

he's got that dog in him. Like that's literally his scouting report to me because Wisconsin threw this guy everywhere. They had him going up the A gap, the B gap, to the edge to the sideline everywhere man they wanted this guy playing downhill because he is an absolute brick house when he makes contact with you Tyler Linderbaum even struggled blocking this guy and he's one of the best centers that we have in this draft and so I just feel like there are so many teams that are picking in the back end of the second round. And when I look at the order,

I think of teams like maybe Green Bay, potentially Cincinnati. I know Bengals fans hate when I give them a linebacker, but he's a different kind of linebacker. He's different. And especially a team like the Detroit Lions at number 32. I know that Dan Campbell would love a guy like Leo Chanel. He is a pure football player.

He loves contact. He looks like he's a crazy dude who loves pain, making things happen, loves the contact with it. He is just such a different breed of linebacker with how athletic he is. I feel like that physical style could maybe tempt the team at the back of the first round and maybe take a chance on a unique player like that. I like it.

It's a good call just because of how high of a floor that Leo Chanel has I think he's quietly one of the best not only run defenders in the draft especially downhill run defender but blitzer man blitzer he is a the production as a blitzer is insane and it's because of that athleticism it's the ability to fly through gaps he's got the strength if a blocker comes his way he's somebody that's going to be seeing running backs and you know guards that are late to the play a lot of guards reaching to the play trying to fill that gap uh and he's going to power through them so i like that pick a lot i think he's been once again a little bit lost you have these habits of not you the draft as a whole the conversation of course not me we fix it of

course you never bad habits you are on national tv you would never have that draft devin lloyd and nicobe dean and even chad muma constantly talked about over leo chanel but when you stack up his tape and you know look at a true off ball role in a sense of what is he going to do for us against the run what is he going to do when we ask him to blitz especially on third downs where we think he's a little tight for coverage can we still keep him on the field the answer is yes so man i you know it's funny i think as a whole linebackers have become underrated in a sense of fans media and maybe in a sense for teams as well but i still think these teams uh are a big fan of this draft class and you're going to see quite a few go in the top 50 top 45 of this draft all right so arnavikate and leo chanel stock exchange flag probably not first round picks but if they turn out to be good pros remember

who told you that maybe they should have been first round and if they don't you never heard it from us never heard no you know you never heard it from us this episode does not exist if they're not good pros you don't even you don heard it from us. No, you never heard it from us. This episode does not exist if they're not good pros. You don't even remember us. You don't remember our names. Yeah, so we're scrubbing this from the internet. Okay, before we get back to the guest mock draft and get to our celebrity guests that we are having to recap the top 20 with us,

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we got dane brugler from the athletic the one and only on with us to recap this top 20. I'll do it right now. I know you guys on YouTube are like, hey, can you be a little bit better about maybe giving us a visual of the picks? I'll talk to our production, our graphics people, see if we can throw one of those things up while I'm talking here. Maybe it's already up while we're talking here. Who knows? It might be predicting the future. But to recap the draft in the top 20, we had Aiden Hutchinson go to the Jacksonville Jaguars at number one, Trayvon Walker of the Lions at number two, Kyle Hamilton to the Texans at three, Kayvon Thibodeau to the Jets at four,

Charles Cross to the Giants at five, Panthers Evan Neal at six, Giants at seven went Sauce Garner, Jordan Davis went to the Falcons at eight, Derek Stingley, Seattle Seahawks at nine, Icky Aquanity to the Jets at ten, Washington Commanders, Drake London at number 11, Vikings at 12, they went to our Linderbaum,

Texans at 13, George Karloftis ravens at 14 jermaine johnson and leek willis went to the eagles 15 trevor penning to the saints at 16 trent mcduffie to the chargers at 17 eagles jameson williams at 18 saints chris olave 19 and then pittsburgh steelers at number 20 with andrew booth jr let's get right to it Let's hear what Dane Brugler thinks about this guest mock draft series and the rest of this NFL draft. All right. So we've got 20 picks down in the guest mock draft series, which means it's time to do a top 20 recap, just like we did for the top 10 and joining us to recap the top 20 picks in the guest mock draft series. We have a very special guest. It is Dane Brugler from The Athletic, author of The Beast,

one of the true masterpieces every single draft season that is a must own. It's, Dane, correct me if I'm wrong, 400 scouting reports. You've got over 1,700 pieces of data on guys, 320,000 words in this thing. Man, I just, it is such a feat.

And we are very lucky to have you here on this podcast after it is published. I hope you've caught up on some sleep since publishing it, man. Well, first thing I did, I went and bought my wife some flowers. That was literally the first thing I did. And then, yeah, it was nice to get some actual, get some sleep, but I've got four kids at home, so it's not always easy. But there's always baseball practice or dance or something going on. But, no, hey, I'm honored to be on with you guys. Mr. Good Morning Football.

So, I mean, this is an honor. No, I appreciate it, man. We're having fun. Hey, this is draft season. It's what it's all about. Going on different shows. Just talking about the draft, doing what we love, man. That's a blast. Well, I wanted to start things out.

And we'll go down the top 20, and we'll talk about a lot of these guys. We'll get some of your favorite picks, some that you like, maybe some that you didn't like, as well as talk about some of your favorite prospects. But I wanted to start with Trayvon Walker because, Dane, you were one of the first people I saw in the media business who was like, hey, Trayvon Walker, because Dane, you were one of the first people I saw in the media business who was like, Hey, Trayvon Walker might go a little bit higher than you guys think. I know he's not stuffing the stat sheet. I know he's not Jordan Davis or Devante Wyatt or Jalen Carter, but this dude's good. Now we have him going as high as number two overall in this guest mock

draft series. When did you really start to get in on Trayvon Walker? And what do you think about him having this top five hype now? You know, it was in the fall. I mean, watching that Georgia defense and okay. It's like, who's this number 44? Cause the way he's moving out there is just, it's unreal. And, you know, back in October, you know, watching him against Auburn that tape, I think really, really jumped out as one that, uh, that tape, I think really, uh,

really jumped out as one that, Hey, this guy is legit. And then doing more background work on him. It's like, Oh, finding out he was, uh, you know, he's been playing football for a long time, big time basketball player, let his high school team to like 75 straight wins, uh, a couple of state championships over a thousand career points. Uh, he's's 6'5", 270, and he's got over 35 inch arms and he's going to test really well. You see that testing on film. So, I mean, it was, it was in the fall and, you know, I started tweeting about him then, you know, how this guy's a first round pick easy. And then as we got closer in January before the combine, I ranked him as my number six overall player.

And I said, this, this guy's legit. One of the best players in this draft. And I, the line that I always use with Trevon Walker was if you told me that three, four years from now, Trevon Walker is the best defensive player from this draft. I would not be surprised at all. And now after he tests all of a sudden, now it's becoming more and more,

I think accepted that he is one of the top guys in this draft. You just, and more, I think, accepted that he is one of the top guys in this draft. You just, you know, people will throw out the lack of pass rush and the lack of pass rush win rate, things like that. And it's all relevant, obviously. But we have to really focus on what he was asked to do in that Georgia scheme. I mean, he was asked to do a specific job, and that's something that really held him back from blossoming and showing what he could do as a pass rusher. but i think it did make him a better run defender and you know it's a projection

there's projection involved no no question but guys that are that size that move like that i mean watching him in indy doing the hoop drill was just eye-opening i mean it's just ridiculous to see this grizzly bear doing these kind of things. And it's like, okay, I, I wouldn't have no problem drafting him top five. And I think I would be surprised if he does not go top three in this draft. I think you look at Jacksonville, you look at Detroit, you look at Houston, one of those three teams, I think is going to draft Trevon Walker and bet on those high end traits, high football character. Cause again,

the draft's all about not what you've done. It's about what you're going to do.'s about projecting forward and trevon walker has got as high a ceiling as anybody in this draft i remember watching george's pro day and you mentioned the hoop drill right there i remember i can't remember who was posted a clip of jordan davis doing the hoop drill and kind of his explosion and how great it looked and then at the very at the very end of the clip though Trayvon Walker he just like he just hits the starting point you just see him launch you go whoa okay and like that was just the very end of the video and it's like wow stick around till the end you'll get to see what Trayvon

Walker can do too yeah and he's so long that he doesn't even have to barely bend to to you know pick up the the flag off the ground it It's silly how he's put together. I mean, he's a brick house, but at the same time, he's got these long vines and he moves like he should be 200 pounds. It's just crazy. So, Dane, in this mock draft, not surprisingly, we've made it through 20 picks. We've had four offensive tackles come off the board.

I think nobody is surprised to see Evan Neal in there, Iki Okwunu, who some people view as the best player in this draft. Bit of a surprise, Charles Cross at five. I think that would be over those guys. And then Trevor Penning in the top 20. I know you were pretty early on Trevor Penning as well in this draft. Do you think that we are at this point where Trevor Penning is going to be a top 20 pick?

And how do you see the first round playing out, especially in the top 20 with tackle? Do you think a Bernard Raymond can climb in here or Tyler Smith, or are these kind of the four we're looking at right now? I think these are the four. And I do think I'll, I'd be shocked if all four do not go top 20. I just,

you know, we know it's a premium position obviously. And in a draft like this, where the quarterbacks are such a wild card, we'll probably see probably at least two go top 20 and some, some, somehow some way. But I think teams are going to fall back on pass rusher on corner and then on tackles. There's just too many teams that need a tackle.

I think they're going to that Trevor Penning is not going to get past. I think, you know, look at Baltimore at 14, you look at, you know, the Saints there at 16. I think that makes a ton of sense as they are working to replace Armstead at left tackle. But yeah, with Penning, yeah, he's definitely been high on the radar. My initial top 50 back in August, he was in the top 32.

I mean, he was a guy that was viewed as, you know, potential first round pick. And I think he's lived up to it. You know, it's hard with that CS competition, obviously. But this is a guy that I think has, you know, the senior bowl at the, you know, his workouts, he had the, the, the best 10 yard split and 20 yard split of any offensive lineman in the draft this year. And that's, that's obviously something that matters when you talk about offensive lineman

and how they test. So does he need to get better with his technique and you know tightening some things up being a little more detail oriented uh no question no doubt about it but there's too many traits there that say this guy's you know uh gonna be a starter that i think he's gonna fall too far so yeah i think we're gonna see trevor penning go somewhere in that top 20 and then you know maybe you know maybe, you know, we see offensive. We've seen worse offensive linemen than, you know, Raymond and Tyler Smith go into that first round before. So I wouldn't be shocked if we see either of those two guys in there. But I think it's once we get to the end of the first round, I'm sure we're going to see some surprises.

There's so many differing opinions on all these guys, not just tack but you know pass rushers and corners and receivers and so uh would not be surprised at all if we uh if we see see one of these tackles or if they go early second i'm curious to as to how you see this wide receiver class because something that i love about this guest mock draft series is we have 32 different people who cover these teams come on to make a pick. And the reason why we put it on their shoulders as a what they would do mock draft is because we want to really hear from them and kind of put a little bit of fun and friendly pressure on them to make sure that they are making the right pick here. And as we are 20 picks in this mock draft,

there's only three wide receivers who are off the board. We had Drake London go to the Washington Commanders at 11. We had Jameson Williams go 18 to the Eagles. And then we had Chris Olave go 19 to the New Orleans Saints. How do you feel about this wide receiver class? Because there's a lot of names that we throw out there, but do you feel like we're going to get a lot of these guys in the top 20? Or do you think it's going to be a little bit later

than what people are projecting? How do you see this wide receiver class? And then how do you see it shaking out on draft weekend i mean i i think if we extend it to the top 25 i think we're going to see a run on these guys uh i really do just because i mean we look around the nfl look where the money's being spent it's quarterback and then it's receiver sure and so teams that want to get cheaper at the position they're not going to be shy using a first round pick on these guys and i think it's receiver. Sure. And so teams that want to get cheaper at the position, they're not going to be shy using a first round pick on these guys. And I think it's, and the fun thing about this receiver classes are also different, you know,

with what they offer. And so, you know, one team is going to value a Drake London differently than another team. And same thing with Chris Alave and Samuel. And I'm a little surprised that Garrett Wilson, right. He's still on the board. Right. Right. Which is that. That's I mean, to me And I'm a little surprised that Garrett Wilson, right, he's still on the board in this mock.

Right, right. Which is, I mean, to me, I'm a Garrett Wilson guy. He's the top receiver in this draft, in my opinion. I'm with you. Yeah, I mean, his ability to get open before the catch and then after the catch, to me, that's what separates him. And he's a former basketball player. I mean, he had Division I basketball scholarships out of high school,

coming out of Austin. And I think that you see that with the way he plays. He's not the biggest guy, but he plays bigger. And I try not to use the word elite very often when talking about players. His body control, genuinely, I believe, is elite with how he can adjust the throws. And even when he's covered, he's not quite covered

because of his ability to adjust and make those catches. But, you know, I understand why a team might prefer Drake London with the way he plays. You know, every every single basketball scouting cliche, throw it at him because it fits, you know, playing above the rim. And, you know, let box him out. Like, I mean, he he does all that. That's that's that's fits his skill set and his background, obviously, as as a college basketball player so um you know i i get it with these receivers i i can understand you could really and i think i've talked myself into each one being the top guy at some point during the last calendar year i mean you talk you know chris alave how smooth he plays this is right who doesn't like chris alave um you know i garrett wilson's obviously he's my top guy

uh but drake lond London we mentioned Traylon Burks I mean there was a while there watching him against SEC competition that you're like all right and once this guy gets out in the open field no one's catching him and you know he's so versatile with the way they use him and he's one of the few receivers that you believe has true x traits you know where he could be a number one you could see him developing into that role so another guy, it's easy to like, and then Jamison Williams, I know for a fact, there are two teams that, and I mean, there are probably more teams,

but I know for a fact, there are two of them have Jamison Williams as a top receiver in this draft. And I think when you watch him, you see that special speed, you see a guy that's just moving different out there. And it's, and he's more than that. It's not just the, I'm going to run by everybody. He knows how to throttle down. He knows how to control his gears. Maybe not the most natural hands,

but good ball skills enough where he can make adjustments on throws. So obviously the ACL, that's part of his evaluation and different teams will look at that differently. And then you throw in Jahan Dotson, you throw in George Pickens, you throw in Sky Moore. I mean, this is a fun wide receiver class. I think we're gonna definitely gonna see a run on these guys in the top 25 and then it's not gonna slow down i mean a guy like sky more christian watson can sneak

into that first and then you know the guys that don't go first are gonna go early in the second so uh top top 40 we're gonna see a lot of receivers off the board dane are you buying the cave on tibido slide or do you think this thing comes full circle where he ends up going number two to the Lions and we're right back to where we started over the summer, essentially? I think it's certainly possible. Kayvon, he's not going to be for everybody. I think that's the easiest way to frame it.

He's a guy that, in terms of culture fit, in terms of just the way he's wired, he's not the most humble guy, and that's okay. The NFL is full of non-humble superstars. It's not like a requirement, but for some teams, some organizations, investing a top 10 pick on a guy that maybe you're just a little bit worried that, you know, his priority list, you know, football, is it always going to be number one? And if you have that little bit of a worry, that's something, if you have a similar grade with Kayvon Thibodeau and another player, that could be the difference. But I do think there's a good chance we still see

Kayvon Thibodeau go somewhere in the top seven picks. You know, I think you look at the jets at number four, they're going to be an interesting spot because in, you know, history tells us that, you know, Joe Douglas, Robert Sala, they prefer, or, you know, they prioritize pass rush over coverage. So, you know, that, that, that would make you lean towards a pass rusher over say, sauce Gardner. And let's say that Aiden Hutchinson, Trayvon Walker off the board at that point, Kayvon Thibodeau sitting there at four,

do they feel comfortable going that direction? I think that's certainly a possible scenario. So, you know, it's Thibodeau's it's, he's definitely one of the wild cards because it's, and this isn't like a media creation, something like that. I mean, this, this is, this is real NFL teams are, you know, having these conversations in their war rooms, trying to figure out, is he going to be a fit for us? And if he is, where does he fit on our,

on our draft board? So it's, it's going to be interesting on draft draft night to see where he ends up. Got to ask you about quarterbacks, because obviously that is going to determine a lot of how the first round goes. You know, maybe we're not going to have a quarterback going to top three, top five, anything like that, but no matter where they are on the board, that's the position that teams get aggressive for. They maybe might want to shake up the order by trading up and things like that. You've got three quarterbacks in your top 40 on your draft

board, but the first one doesn't show up until number 30. So you've got three within that 30 to 40 range, Desmond Ritter, Kenny Pickett, and Malik Willis. And I know you have Pickett as your QB one. What do you think about this quarterback class overall? And what do you think about how it's going to show up on night one of the draft? Do you think we're getting all three of those guys in the first round? Do you think one of them might go in the top 10? How do you think this thing's going to shake out with the quarterbacks? Yeah, this quarterback class, it's easy to like these guys. It's just hard to love them. You know, especially, you know, when you, when you think about if, if you're to draft a quarterback in the first round,

and this is the way I look at it and the way kind of, I was taught, if you're drafting a quarterback in the first round, that means you believe he's going to be a top 15 quarterback in the NFL at some point during their rookie contract. And it's just hard to convince yourself, you know, with any of these guys that they're going to reach that status. Now, obviously that's just, that's just my opinion. Other others look at, you know, Malik Willis and see the upside and say, I think he's going to get there. And that's a, that that's, that's fine. I certainly understand that. That is a realistic possibility for Malik Willis with how talented that he is um and like

Malik Willis his issues it's not that he's deficient it's more he's unproven uh in terms of his field vision in terms of uh you know being able to uh operate an NFL level offense just because what he was asked to do in college is wildly different uh as one scout put it it's a he played a JV offense and that's just how it was at Liberty. And so going to face or facing NFL competition in an NFL level offense, it's just a big ask and why it's going to take time for a guy like Malik Willis. Kenny Pickett, obviously you worry about the ceiling. I think you worry about is he a type of guy? Okay.

He can help you win games, but is he a guy that's really going to lead you on a playoff run? Can he lead you to the Superbowl? Do you see that as a legitimate outcome for Kenny Pickett? And if it's not, then what are we doing here? Why are we looking at him as a possible answer for our franchise if you don't genuinely believe this is a guy that can lead us to the ultimate goal?

So Desmond Ritter, there's things I like about him, but easy to poke holes in him as well. So it's it's a really fascinating quarterback class. You know, we've talked about it at length all through the process. And it's it's something that I'm really eager to see how it plays out. I do think they're going to be overdrafted. I do think we're going to see at least two quarterbacks go uh you know early top 15 top half around one and you're looking at carolina at six atlanta at eight seattle at nine could we see the steel we know the steelers that they like a guy enough they will move up we've seen them do

it in the past in the first round could they do it to get make sure they get their guy whoever that may be certainly possible so uh you know it's this is going to be a fun first round um you know just like last year but you know last year we had a better idea where the quarterbacks were going uh this year not so much but i think we have a good idea they're still gonna go all right dan before we let you go obviously we went over the top 20 today of this guest mock draft the first round as a whole who's a player that you think does not go in the first round but you would absolutely put your name behind a player that you love it could be on their upside it could be on their floor uh who is that player um i would say uh i'm a big logan

hall guy okay you know from houston who likes i you know he played three technique in college that's that's actually where he prefers to play i I just keep thinking about him as an edge rusher. He's a lighter guy. Yeah, right. He's probably 280. That's probably where his best playing weight is. But when he's able to give him a little bit of a runway with that length, and I think that could really open up some things for him.

But regardless, I think he's got that inside-outside versatility. And he's still only 21 years old. He's a young senior. He's a guy that really should have redshirted when he got to Houston, but they threw him out there right away. And so he's a guy that I think has considerable upside, a guy that I think is going to be a good player. And, I mean, really, there's so many favorites in this draft. I think Cam Juergens from Nebraska, I have him as a second-round pick,

as a top-50 guy. He's that, you know, if you don't get Tyler Linderbaum in the first, Cam Juergens in the. I have him as a second round pick as a top 50 guy. He's that, you know, if you don't get Tyler Linderbaum in the first camp Juergens in the second, he's actually, and the big difference between the two is camp Juergens. His arms are two inches longer. He's actually heavier than Tyler Linderbaum, right? And his frame is, and, and with cam Juergens, he never played a snap at center until he got to Nebraska. He was a tight end. He was, uh, you know, play different positions. Um, and so you still feel like there's upside there. He's going to get better.

So it's there are plenty of players on day two that I think are future NFL starters that have a chance to be pro bowl players. And so it's, it's, you know, just like every year, I think we talk about how the depth in round two, round three, no different this year. There's a day to Friday night of draft draft weekend's gonna be a lot of fun dane we asked you so many general draft questions i forgot to ask you some of maybe your favorite picks that you actually had in this guest mock draft we went over a couple of them i'm curious

if you just had any that uh stuck out to you when i when i gave you the list we talked about jameson williams a little bit you mentioned trevor penning to the new orleans saints we kind of talked about drake london and the commanders but anybody else that we didn't mention any of the fits that you might have liked when i sent you the list um you know i do like sauce gardener the giants i think that makes a ton of sense new gm new front office you know they they need to hit on these two top 10 picks i think ideally they'd love to trade out and trade down and you know pick up picks for next year that type of thing but if they're stuck at five and seven to get the offensive lineman at five and they get sauce Gardner at seven, that might be an ideal scenario for them.

I think we'll see what happens with James Bradbury and all that. So that makes a ton of sense. Ikea Kwanwo to me, he's my number two player in the draft for him to be at 10. And that's the thing where Joe Douglas, he won't be able to help himself. If he's, if Ikea K want, who's still there at 10, I think the idea is to draft a receiver or some go somewhere else. If a coin who's on the board, Joe Douglas will not be able to help himself if you want to would be the

pick. I have no doubt about that. A little surprised to see Tyler Linderbaum at 12. You know, it's, it's especially after you you know the uh Garrett Bradbury said you know that didn't quite work out and so but you've got a new front office and you got a first year general manager would he feel comfortable making that pick uh that's an interesting one um and then to see Malik Willis go to the Eagles um I don't I don't think we we really think that's realistic but it is interesting to think about Malik Willis and Jalen Hurts in the same quarterback room and what, what that dynamic would look like and you know,

how the Eagles would, would move forward. So, you know, it's, it's interesting. I, Jamison Williams also add him to the Eagles offense. That'd be a ton of fun. I think we're with Jamison Williams. That was my favorite part about watching Jamison Williams tape there, or just watching games on Saturday too. And during college football season is you knew on any given play Jamison Williams is going to make something happen I mean he's just a special of a player so uh no matter where he goes he's going to be a lot of fun to watch uh and then last last one I'll say is Chris Olave to the Saints um love it with Olave he's so smooth I mean we know Saints and Ohio State know how that works and

uh no matter who's that quarterback for the Saints having Chris Olave, he's so smooth. We know Saints and Ohio State, know how that works. And no matter who's that quarterback for the Saints, having Chris Olave will make that quarterback better. Well, the guest mock draft's always a lot of fun because of the different voices that we get to hear picking for different teams. But it's also because we get to have great guests like Dane Brugler on to recap some of these picks. Go to The Athletic.

Get yourself a subscription. Read the draft guide. I meant it when I said it is an absolute masterpiece. It's one of the must-own pieces of draft memorabilia every single year. Dane, thank you so much for joining us, my friend. Trevor Connor, it was an honor. I appreciate it, guys.

All right, the Patriots on the clock with the 21st overall pick in the NFL draft and a pivotal offseason for them. A lot of changes in New England, and we're really happy to have on Evan Lazar, Patriots Beat reporter for CLNS Media and host of the Patriots Beat podcast. Evan, man, a lot of change in New England right now.

It's been a little bit crazy. How are you, man? I'm doing well, thanks. Yeah, not as crazy as last offseason, I would say, but this offseason's a different kind of crazy. It's more like panic crazy like what's the plan here what the hell are they doing uh then last off season where it was how much tape can i possibly watch of free agent additions in such a short period of time but still always something to talk about so let's start right there i think when you know i bring up the changes i look at the

staff um which there's a lot of turnover and still, in my opinion, as an outsider from this team, a lot of question marks still. I know they're a franchise that typically doesn't reveal always the day-to-day of the staff all the time. But from what you know right now, what does the infrastructure of this team look like, specifically on the offense, where they have some holes to fill? They obviously want to keep this thing moving with a young quarterback with Mac Jones and make sure he's set up for an infrastructure that did put him in successful spots often last year.

So for the people that aren't aware, who is going to be taking over the play calling, working directly with Mac, and what kind of changes, if any, could that bring to New England's offense? It's a great question. It's certainly something that we're going to be monitoring a ton once we get out to OTA practices and minicamp and training camp. Who has the headset on?

Who does it seem like Mac Jones is communicating with the most? We talked to Bill Belichick at the owners meetings a couple of weeks ago, and he pitched this idea of a brain trust that at the top is going to essentially be Joe judge and Matt Patricia platooning their responsibilities on that side of the football. And I see your two faces. Fascinating. Those are the faces of every New Englander known to man right now is scratching their heads. So I think a lot of people are asking what the hell is going on with Matt

Patricia and Joe judge running the offense, where are the Patriots going to go with this? And ultimately there's a very, very large group of fans that are still so loyal to Bill Belichick and what he has done in the past that you say it's Bill Belichick. It's eight times Superbowl it's Bill Belichick. It's eight-time Super Bowl champion Bill Belichick. Who is this jamoke on the radio or on a podcast telling me what the Patriots should do with their coaching staff

instead of the greatest coach of all time? The positive spin on it to me is that they do have two young gun position coaches in Nick Caley and Troy Brown, who obviously used to play for the Patriots for years at wide receiver that are on the staff that I'm hoping are going to take on a lot of responsibility, maybe behind closed doors, not necessarily out in the public because Bill Belichick doesn't like to crown people, you know, out in the public like that. So I hope that Cayley and Troy Brown are going to be a big part of this.

And then Bill himself, I think, is also going to have a heavy hand in Mac Jones' development, the overall direction of the offense from a big-picture scheme standpoint. And he hinted at, as did Robert Kraft, that guys like Nelson Aguilar and Johnnie Smith and some of the free agent signings that they had last offseason that didn't have great first years with the Patriots are players that they are planning on doing some things differently to get going in year two with the team. So in a lot of ways, I think it's going to fall on Belichick's shoulders himself. Like I mentioned, Judge

and Patricia are platooning a lot of the brain trust or responsibility on that side of the football too. And I'm holding out hope that Nick Caley is going to ultimately be the guy with the play sheet, but we'll see. It's going to be a really interesting dynamic, that's for sure. Just kind of continuing along those lines, when it comes to the guys that Mac Jones will be facilitating the football to, you mentioned the tight ends, Hunter Henry, John Smith,

a lot of money into those guys last year. Didn't exactly have a high ROI for those guys, at least in year one. You look at the wide receiver group. Okay, they bring in Devontae Parker, but it's Kendrick Bourne, it's Jacoby Myers, it's Nelson Aguilar, it's Ty Montgomery, it's Nikhil Harry, right? It's just like a lot of names that are just like, okay. You know, it's just that's what it feels like

when you're looking at this Patriots depth chart. And so when you look at this guest mock draft, and you don't have to give away your pick here. We'll get to that in a few minutes. But you got guys like Garrett Wilson and Traylon Burks on the board. There's a chance that maybe it's not those exact two, but going to have a receiver option here at number 21. How much of that is a priority for a team that we've talked about before?

This is exactly prioritized wide receiver as first round picks or does not often do that. What do you think about that going into this year's draft? Yeah, only one first round pick, which was obviously Nikhil Harry in the 22 seasons that Bill Belichick has been at the helm with the Patriots. He's only actually drafted seven wide receivers in the top 100, let alone the first round. That's crazy. Not a position that they have ever really committed to in the draft, especially at the top of the draft.

And obviously, as everybody loves to point out, their track record in doing so is horrible. Outside of Deion Branch, it's really not a good list of names. We're talking about Nikhil Harry Aaron Dobson Chad Jackson you know players that have all pretty much been busts for the Patriots even right away you know Aaron Dobson had a good rookie season with Tom Brady in 2013 but there wasn't anybody else really to throw to outside of Gronk and Julian Edelman out of the lineup that year with injuries. So it really hasn't been a good, you know, hasn't been a good position for them in the draft.

It just hasn't. Now, to kind of go back to your question, I think when you look at this team and you look at where do they need the biggest improvement in talent based off of what they currently have on the roster? I think there's a really good argument for cornerback as well. Right now, if the season were to start tomorrow, Jalen Mills is probably their number one outside corner. So that's not a great depth chart either. But at wide receiver, I like Bourne.

I think he's a serviceable player as a top three guy. I think Jacoby Myers works in their system and their scheme, but they are missing that number one guy. They are missing their Tyreek Hill, their Stephon Diggs, their Devontae Adams. I'm just going with guys that have moved or signed contracts in recent years, and I look at the landscape of it, and the one thing that I can absolutely promise you is that Bill Belichick is not going to pay a wide receiver

$30 million a year to play football for his team ever. So if you look at some of these big contracts that have signed this off season for these number one guys, the only way that they add a premier talent at that position on that level is if they draft the guy and they develop him and they get him in-house. If they look for external additions, it's going to be Devontae Parker. It's going to be Nelson Aguilar. It's going to be Kendrick Bourne. And we're going to be talking about guys more in that prism and that sort of tier of wide receivers. So I look at the draft and I say,

is it the biggest need on their board in terms of the season where to start tomorrow? They absolutely need to fill this spot. I wouldn't say so because those guys that I mentioned are veteran NFL wide outs that can play on Sundays, but in terms of what area of the roster needs the top dog, the most is definitely wide receiver and i think that that's sort of a big picture conversation that they have to be having right now looking at this offensive line it's a unit that's quietly dealt with some turnover recently but still definitely

has its strong points in terms of town especially bringing back trent brown on uh for the level of player he is in New England, a pretty good number. So when you look at this offensive line, traditionally they are a team that they can draft a guy outside of round one, develop him, and it becomes a strength of the team year after year after year. Do you think they continue in that mold,

or internally are they happy with this group they have despite how much turnover they've dealt with? Well, I absolutely have banged the table for not drafting a guard at 21 if they take a guard at 21 i'm gonna pull my spoiler so you're not drafting zion johnson then okay all right we'll take him on drives me i'll just now that i've spoiled it i just will completely spoil it it drives me nuts when i see mock drafters put zion johnson at 21 for the patriots because they are a team in my mind as much as they won 10 games last year and made made it back to the playoffs when push came to shove down the stretch of the year last year they were not good enough in any phase of the team they are

still very much in a rebuild in my mind and putting them in a position where they're taking a non-luxury position in the first round with the top 20, 25 pick, they're just not there yet. If this was the Tom Brady Patriots and that was one of three holes that they had on their roster and they were going to take the next Logan Mankins and make him a 10-year starter and everything was going to be peachy. That would just be a different time in Patriots history. Now they need that. They need talent, but they also need talent at premium positions.

So to take a guard or in the first round, I think is a tough pill to swallow when they have guys that will potentially be on the board at those premium spots. Dante Skarniecki is not the offensive line coach anymore, but he does consult with the Patriots this time of year on draft prospects. So they'll give him a list of 10 to 15 guys that the scouting department and the coaching staff really likes and say, Dante, who do you like out of this group? Give us a thumbs up, give us a thumbs down. So even though I think people in the building try to give the right guys credit, the guys that are actually on the payroll, the credit, I think guys like Michael Onwenu, for example,

is certainly somebody that Dante Skarniecki gave his seal of approval for and was banging the table for and said, hey, draft this guy. So I still think their ability, even though they don't necessarily have the coaching in-house to develop these guys, their ability to identify the sixth round offensive lineman that they're going to turn into a starter, I think is still going to be at a pretty high clip. Connor, we got to get scar on the show.

I didn't realize he was doing consulting, man. We got to, I don't know, hit up his Patriot. We got to't know hit up his patreon we gotta sit hit up his patreon or something just yeah there you go really active on on boston media it's kind of a mouthpiece i will admit but uh all right so you know you hit on secondary players and you touched on corner being a major need for them i want to hear what you have to say about linebacker as well, because when we get to this pick at number 21, doing a lot of mock drafts, just myself personally, sometimes there are guys on the board, like, like N'Kobi Dean, like Devin Lloyd. And I think about putting them here to the Patriots, but you know, those are two very different linebackers. And I

think if you go even further down the draft, second and third round, you start getting into some other particular linebackers who have, who a particular skill set what do you think about this linebacker class here is it an option for the patriots in the first round and then who are some of the guys that you think they might covet on this team if they're going that direction yeah so to go back to the big picture i think especially on defense what i look at the defense now on paper, what they're missing, and I think internally, they're hopeful that Christian Barmore might turn into the guy that you kind of run the scheme around and you build the scheme around.

But when I look at them on paper, they don't have Stephon Gilmore anymore. They don't have Dante Hightower is not under contract currently, and he's aging out very quickly here and is probably closer to retirement than being an impact player anymore. And J.C. Jackson's now a charger. So who on this defense is the guy? Like, who are you running the defense around?

Who is running the defense in the front seven with the green dot, but more so than just the green dot, from a role standpoint, who's shouldering that load of the the real heavy lifting and this defense and i have a tough time putting my finger on who on this team right now is is the dude like who's the alpha in that room devin mccourty is probably the closest thing to it but he's also 34 years old and really closer to retirement than impact player as well. So I think that when I look at this first round, wide receiver is obviously going to be on everybody's mind. If somebody like Jamison Williams falls to the Patriots at 21, Nick Saban gives Bill the thumbs

up. I think it's going to be tough for him to pass on the wide receiver talent. Offensive tackle, I would say, is also another spot along with guard that they could potentially look at with isaiah win in his fifth year option trent brown in and out of the lineup over the last couple of years for the patriots and raiders so penning bernard raymond i think those are two guys that they would consider here with this pick as well but i come back to belichick's defenses from as long as i have known it. Even I'm not old enough to remember the Giants defenses and stuff like that, but they obviously ran through Lawrence Taylor. And then with the Patriots, it's Brewski and it's Hightower

and it's Mayo and it's these linebackers that have always been the lifeblood of this defense. And I think they're really missing that guy right now on their roster. All right. Well, that being said, Evan, pick 21. You are on the clock. You have quite a few good options here that you went over. Obviously, Garrett Wilson is on the board.

The off-ball linebackers are all sitting there on the board. We have had a little run, actually a big run on corner, with Andrew Booth being the most recent one. But you are on the clock clock 21st overall pick. Who are you taking for the new England Patriots? I am selecting Devin Lloyd, the linebacker from Utah. There we go.

For all the reasons that I just mentioned, I really like this one for the Patriots in terms of getting that, that star, that stud in the middle of the defense, that the whole thing in the front seven runs through. But also what I like so much about Lloyd for the Pats is in that Hightower mold, they've always had linebackers

that can also play on the line of scrimmage and rush the quarterback, either as blitzers or even as edge rushers at times. Probably the biggest play in Dante Hightower's career is the strip sack in Super Bowl 51, where Devontae Freeman blows the blitz pickup. That's him coming right off the edge, off the right hip side of the tackle. So they've always had linebackers that can play on and off the line of scrimmage that rush the passer and make impacts against the run. I think Devin Lloyd

has that type of skill set that Bill Belichick would want in a first round pick. I don't think he's taking a pure off ball guy at 21, but somebody like Lloyd that can add value as a pass rusher stands out. Oh, you know who else I know that I know that they would love Connor is Leo Chanel. I think that they would love Leo Chanel. They would, they would draft the crap out of that guy. If they miss on a linebacker that they might really want at 21,

they're going to have their eye on him big time, I think. Pick 54 would be in play. But I love what Evan said about Lloyd. I've watched even more Lloyd this week for a feature we're doing at BR. And the hand in the dirt pass rush reps, there's legitimate tape of him winning like a defensive end with twitch and the ability to flip his hips and turn and uh the fact that that kind of versatility is so vital in new england's scheme where it's not the old because you know they'll be talking heads that go an off-ball linebacker in the first round

this is outdated but there's a player in lloy Lloyd that can do a little bit of everything and obviously make impact plays not just rack up tackle stats yeah that's sort of how I feel about it as well and when I watched him too you mentioned Leo Chennault who I've mocked to the Patriots in the second round probably a hundred times there we go a couple of months and he's also in that mold a little bit bigger as well and as than devin lloyd so the one guy i think he went to pick before me was trevor penning uh the tackle from northern iowa and andrew booth jr also went maybe pick a head or two so those were the two guys that once i saw those guys were off the board i could definitely see the patriots going linemen like a penning here at 21 and then taking chanel on day two instead of doing what i

did which was kind of the flip side of that based off of the way that the board fell but i i just love the optics of lloyd a little bit more new age than maybe high tower he's not 255 260s 240 so he goes sideline to sideline a little bit faster a little bit more fluid in coverage but he still adds that pass rush value and they can line him up over the guards in kind of like a mug look, or they can line them up outside the tackle and have him much as a three, four outside linebacker on passing downs. And Bill Belichick would just have a ton of fun with him as a chess piece and

just game in and game out situationally. Where are we going to line up Lloyd? I just think that that's going to be a big part of their game plans every week. All right, Evan. Go ahead. Go ahead. Devin Lloyd, 21st overall pick. Evan Lazar, Patriots Beat reporter for CLNS Media,

host of the Patriots Beat podcast. You can follow him at EZLazar. Awesome stuff, man. Really appreciate your time. No problem, guys. Thanks for your time. No problem, guys. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it, Evan. The Green Bay Packers on the clock.

Pick 22 in the first round. The first of two first round selections for the Green Bay Packers. So a crazy offseason for them. And who better to bring in than Peter Bukowski, the host of Locked On Packers. Pete, it's good that all the drama is in the rear view now, and you can actually talk about the players this team can add on the roster. How are you, man?

Don't jinx it, first of all. Yeah, that's a good point. Because I had planned so much for this offseason, so much great offseason content to talk about what's next for this team, and instead we got to worry about Aaron Rodgers. Then we get the curveball with Devontae Adams, and I'm sure we're going to talk about that because that affects what they want to do in the

first round so I am I'm actually glad that we get to talk about football I'm glad we get to talk about players and I will be even more glad in three weeks when we get to talk about the guys actually on this team all right so this is a common question I throw a lot of guest pickers is and you know I'm just a man on Twitter, but I know all the wide receiver talk around the Packers is probably at the point where it's nauseating. And we're going to get there today. Don't worry. But I like to ask, what are some needs on this team

that you think the general consensus media misses? Or you're reading mock drafts and you go, man, people just don't realize this team is, this is a serious need even after free agency. Maybe it's one or two different positions you're looking at. I actually, my real answer is the opposite. I think there is a perception of a need that does not actually exist in a pressing way for the Packers,

and that's tackle. Because Ellen Jenkins is going to play right tackle on this team. Okay. And David Bakhtiari, the Packers are not concerned about him long-term. He had, the long recovery was about a fluid issue in his knee. He just has an abnormal amount of fluid in his knee normally. And so that affected his recovery. It made it longer than it would normally be.

And the only way to fix that is rest. And he's going to get this whole offseason to rest. Elton Jenkins was a top 10 left tackle last year when he played for David Bakhtiari. You look at the pro football focus numbers, you just watch the tape. He is a really, really good player. And so you put those guys at tackle. You have Yash Nijman who played in Bakhtiar's absence last year, handled Nick Bosa, handled the Pittsburgh pass rush with TJ Watt. He can be a really good swing tackle. The Packers have three tackles. Most teams don't have two or they struggle to have two. And so that's a nice luxury to have. I think the one,

the one need that, that is a perfect fit for your question is, I don't know why we're not talking more about the safety position for the Green Bay Packers and not because Darnell Savage and Adrian Amos aren't awesome. I think both of them are really, really good players. Adrian Amos' contract is up after this season, and they've done some financial maneuvering so that there's void years and dead money and all kinds of stuff associated with him. If he comes off the books next year, they don't have an intuitive solution. And Darnold Savage, they need to make a decision on his fifth year option. Now, I think they're going to pick it up. They love Darnold Savage. I love Darnold Now, I think they're going to pick it up. They love Darnell Savage. I love Darnell Savage.

I think they're going to be fine there. But they also want to play a lot of this big nickel. They want to play with a third safety, and they didn't address it last year. Having Henry Black out there and Vernon Scott wasn't healthy and some of these other guys they tried to put out there. They're trying to put Kevin King out there at the end of the year, Connor. That's just not going to work. And so if you could draft a player early that could give you, let's say,

30% of snaps at safety this year in a nickel role and then become your full-time starter next to Darnell Savage, I think there's a lot of value in that. And that's traditionally how the Packers operate. They look a year out, two years out with their needs and say, okay, how do we prepare for Jamal, Jamal Williams and Aaron Jones, both being free agents the same season? Well, you draft AJ Dillon. How do you prepare for two years, probably a Preston Smith and Zedaria Smith. You draft Rashawn Gary, let him develop. And now Rashawn Gary is becoming a star in front of our eyes. And Zedaria Smith is playing for a division rival because he got too

expensive. So that's the way that, that they look at this roster. And I think that's the way we need to be, be looking more when we do these mock drafts. So you transition it nicely there for me, the defensive line, obviously a lot of talent.

And even that's what Zedaria Smith, like you said, walking out the door and let's be real. This is, they know what it's like without him because they experienced that for most of last year they got the money deal done with Preston Smith Rashawn Gary has broken out into the player that you would hope he would become and maybe even more as a top 15 pick is this a unit that you think okay they can get by or is this a unit that maybe needs one more player next to Kenny Clark or is it a third rusher it's now these questions for me are not, I'm not talking about the top 30 picks.

Green Bay, we know what their needs are outside of that. But do you think with a deep class and deep edge rush class, there's some interior defensive line players. Do you think maybe day two or day three, that's a group that they need to add to as well? Yeah, absolutely. And we heard from their coaching staff this week, and they talked about the idea of wanting to be four deep on the edge.

Well, with Preston Smith and Zedarius, or Preston Smith and Rashawn Gary, excuse me, and then Jonathan Garvin, who was a day three pick a couple years ago, he has started to come on a little bit. He's a nice rotational player. I think we get bogged down too much and like, okay, who are the superstars? Okay, well, the depth matters too. You need to have other guys who can come in and play.

You need to make sure that drop off from one to two is not huge, even though usually it's pretty big. They need one more of those guys. Now, they also, we heard from Jerry Montgomery, the defensive line coach, that they want to find a third-down interior pass rusher. Well, what if those are the same guy? What if you like someone like Alex Wright from UAB

who can play on the edge and then reduce down inside or pass her you can kill two birds with one stone what if you like logan hall from houston who can play on the edge and reduce down inside and rush the passer uh there are i think some guys who can give you that de marvin leal is a guy i really like who can can do a little bit of both i think he's sort of like, if he can be, my comp for him is like Diet Coke Michael Bennett. Like, I think he can do that. And so there are some options that way. But they need to add a little bit of juice.

They signed Jerron Reed, who I think can help them next to Kenny Clark. Kenny Clark is becoming, I think he's the best pass rushing nose tackle in football. I think if anyone can give pass rushing nose tackle in football. I think if anyone can give him a run for his money, it might be a player in this class who I, I think I'm higher on than almost anyone else. I absolutely adore Travis Jones from Yukon. I think I'm with you.

You're in the right place, man. Awesome. First rounder. He's going to go. There are just not guys, three 25 who move like him, Jordan Davis aside, right? Like that's like, if we just had said, I talked to a defensive line coach the other day, if Jordan Davis had not existed,

we would have come out of Indy talking about how good Travis Jones is. He spoiled Travis Jones party. Exactly. His movement skills at his side. I mean, watching him run the hoop drill was just like, wait a second, who is this guy? Yeah.

And I had already really liked the tape. I had already sort of fallen in love with him. And then I watched him. I watched him like he's got a club move like I haven't seen in a long time. No one has that move anymore. That's an old school move. That's like a Deacon Jones, Reggie White move.

No one has that anymore. He's got this game that I really, really like. And if he were there, like he's there at 28, if the Packers can find a receiver at 22 and someone like Travis Jones is there at 28, they've done this before with these big bodies. You think of Kenny Clark, BJ Raji, even going back to a bust like Justin Harrell,

they view defensive tackle, especially when it's someone like that who they think can give them pass rush. They view them as first round sort of premium positions. I think that that's something that, that they could look at, but further down the draft too. I mean,

if you look Perry on Winfrey, some of these other guys who may be more specialists than, than full-time starters, I think that would be appealing to them as well. I love some of the pass rushers on day two as well. Like Nick Benito is like, I don't know. He's tiny, like for a, for a real pass real pass rusher and he i know he measured in what 248 you watch him

playing you're like that guy's not 248 come on that's 35 yeah yeah and but a rocked up 235 like that's the cool thing and can move and i was like wait are we sure this guy's an edge what if he's just a sam like what if he is someone who because he he can move, he can play off the ball. I don't know that he fits on green Bay's defense, but he's going to be a fun player for someone. So there's a, there's a lot on day two that I think green Bay could, could like in the trenches there. Yeah. It was funny hearing you go through all the tweeners and a lot of people like to put that as a negative, you know, disclaimer on a guy, but in green Bay situation, it sounds perfect with, you know, you said Lee Al, obviously a lot of players like that, that can play three three tech but traditionally will kick out as well

you can move them all around so that makes a lot of sense obviously this is a big draft for the packers i'm just looking right now 22 28 that's all we hear about over and over again but 53 59 92 these are really really important picks and a lot of the players you went through fit that profile so one last one on the roster before we do get to the selection here, tight end. This is traditionally a team that I don't know how they do it, but they just find tight ends out of nowhere year after year that you'll, you'll see a guy that you don't remember evaluating in a very detailed, oriented way. And then he ends up being the starter for the Packers and ends up being a productive player. We've seen that with Robert Tunyon, who unfortunately did suffer a season-ending injury last year.

Do you think there's an initiative in-house, especially, and I'm not talking even with the top 60 picks, but looking at 92 and 132, just the fact that this is a tight end class, it's very deep. Honestly, it probably, you don't see any run on it at all until round three, which is very interesting overall. Is this more of a Green Bay, especially a run heavy team where they ask these guys to block?

Everybody has to block tight ends, wide receivers. Everybody has to block. Is there maybe a couple of guys that you think fitness mold? Is that even an area you think that they look at? I have been saying write a tight ends name at 92 in pen. I love it. That's whatever tight end you like. And,

and I think that that is the perfect spot. That is true. I mean, you just, just in the Brian Goodick and Sarah J Sternberger and just hide Aguara in the third. And, and I think people thought just side to Guara was a reach.

You look at some of the guys who've gone after the Patriots took two guys right after the Packers did that are one before and right after I can't, I can't exactly remember now, but they that's where the run often happens, and that's where the run is in this class, right, with Kate Otten and Jeremy Ruckert and some of these guys, Jelani Woods. I've been telling anyone who will listen,

by relative athletic score, the most athletic measured tight end ever, Jelani Woods. You're not going to get that guy in the fifth round you're like burn any mock draft where he's in the fifth round like that's just not not happening not at six simulations with 260 like no no yeah like come on that's just not going to happen um and i'm a little disappointed you weren't grinding that indiana state tape to find big bob tunyon but um no uh he he came out of nowhere and became the funny thing is is the play that set him off was a long touchdown in 2018 against seattle and rogers threw it and after the game admitted he

thought it was jimmy graham he thought he was throwing the ball to jimmy graham he just threw some jump ball and go back and find the highlight because i think it's 60 yards in the air it's an unbelievable throw like on his right just slinging it and uh andtonio made the catch and he's become a guy that if if the ball is in his area he's coming down with it like he's got unbelievable hands he's not special after the catch he's not special you know at the release he's not someone that you're gonna like put in the slot and expect him to go beat safeties 1v1 a bunch but rogers is gonna he's gonna earhole you if you don't have eyes to the ball like it's just he becomes more difficult to defend because aaron Rodgers is his quarterback.

Now, it didn't work out with Jace, and he's in Pittsburgh now. Josiah DeGuara is a work in progress. But to your point, you've got to be able to block. You have to be able to do more than just catch the ball. And so that's why I love, you know, you think about a name like Jeremyuckert is a name that i think that that we should have an eye on there kate otten um the the the guy from ucla whose name is escaping me right now which belch um is someone that i think they just had in for a visit so um that's the range where i think you're gonna see green bay attack that i think that's where they find value and they have these these little quirks right when you think about their draft history

history you go back and you go oh jermichael finley in the third round oh jay sternberg in that I think that's where they find value. And they have these little quirks, right? When you think about their draft history, you go back and you go, oh, Jermichael Finley in the third round. Oh, Jay Sternberg in the third round. Oh, Josiah DeGuarra in the third round. Oh, tackle in the fourth round. Like Josh Sitton, tackle in the fourth round. David Bakhtiari, tackle in the fourth round.

TJ Lang, tackle in the fourth round. Royce Newman, tackle in the fourth round. I would say Royce Newman was fourth round too. It's insane. It is. And they hit on, well, three of those four, right? We don't know what Royce Newman is. He got benched at the end of last year. By the way, they love him. They think he can be a starting guard. They love his feet. And so I think he can end up being a very good pass protector. It was the mental side that he was still the twists and stunts and pressures and mug looks were giving him issues. I think with a little bit more tape study, he can be a really nice player but um the to your point about tight ends they they have these these uh you know sort of picadillos at these positions and that's one of them i think like i said right in an ink they're gonna take a tight end at 92 all right anything helps my uh

when we do a three round mock draft on the show which will be coming at some point right all right so you're on the clock it's pick 22 the Packers their first pick in the first round one of two selections honestly Pete this board is fascinating and that was one of the first things you said you wrote back to me when I sent it to you I'm like you know it was kind of like man there's a lot of options here that traditionally people might not expect to be here but let's be real this is the draft somebody has to fall outside that top 20 where are you going for the Packers here at pick 22 one of my favorite things every year about the draft is there's 50 guys who can't fall past 20 oh that guy's not gonna be available I just love it every year um at 22 uh I'm gonna

I'm gonna gladly I'm going to run the card in with Arkansas receiver Traylon Burks. Okay. It just, the fit, I was just talking to Danny Kelly over at the ringer about this. The fit is undeniable. And when you hear him compared to Debo Samuel, and everyone is the new Debo, right? That's the new thing.

Everyone wants to find their Debo Samuel. Not every offense is going to be able to do it. Not every offense fits that kind of player. And not every coach is going to be creative enough, let. Not every offense fits that kind of player and not every coach is going to be creative enough. Let's just be honest about it to find ways to get him the ball in ways that in year one, he can win, right? I think Matt LaFleur is one of those guys. And you look at

over the last two years, he's been in top three in open receiver percentage and wide open receiver percentage. He knows how to scheme guys free into space. And over the last three years, they have been right up there with Kansas City in terms of teams that use the RPO the most. And when they go to that RPO look, it's a pre-snap RPO based on numbers, and it is a bubble.

That's the past concept that they use with their rpo well what do you want to do with trailing burks get him the ball asap rpo screens to him all day and then you can come into those play action plays in breakers glance routes go routes and he can he can just that that is his role year one that's fine as he grows into becoming a full-time you know is he ever going to be a true x receiver like deandre hopkins on the back side and and just go win a slant for you maybe maybe but like but also i don't care like just watch him with the ball in his hands and he's one of those guys that i think truly is faster with the ball in his hands watch the play against uh alabama where he catches the ball on the sidelines

and outruns three Alabama defenders to the end zone, and then tell me more about how you care that he ran 4-5-5. Just watch him play football in the SEC where no one caught him in three years. So I'm not worried about some of the stuff that other people are worried about. The three-cone a little bit. I'm a little worried about his change of direction. But guess what? DK Metcalf, 1,400 yards last year, running three routes.

Now, I don't think Traylon is quite that level of athlete, but 6'3", 225. He is a, can we swear on this show? Sure. Why not? Well, a brick, you know what house? Yeah. A muscle. Like he's that kind of physical specimen. I was talking to Stacy Dales at NFL network. She's one of the few reporters that

gets to be on the field for those workouts. And she was just like, Traylon Burke's just looked different than everyone else at the combine, just physically profile wise, just looked different. And I don't, I'm just not worried. I can't be worried about what he is in year one. I just can't be worried about that. I have to trust Matt LaFleur is going to find ways to get him open, and then if you feel like you need to go sign a veteran, like Sammy Watkins is out there as of this recording.

Will Fuller is out there as of this recording. Julio Jones is out there as of this recording. Go get one of those guys and figure the rest out. Man, I love the pick. I'm high on Traylon Burks. He's my wide receiver three in this draft. I think he's a top 20 player in this draft and I love the way you outlined the player in terms of usage as somebody that does see obviously a lot of upside to him at the NFL I'll be the first to tell you that fit matters for me and the Packers are a no-brainer fit for

Traylon Burks for everything they need and honestly everything he needs in terms of usage year one and and you nailed it I I try to tell everyone 455 at nearly 230 pounds is very different than somebody in the low 180s running around four four high four threes it's just yeah it's just totally different on the football field and it's it's's obviously a big person's game. And Traylon Burks is a physical, big bodied wide receiver that I love the selection. So 86th percentile speed score, by the way. So adjusting for weight, 86th percentile.

That's fast. That's really fast. Yeah, we're not there. The general public is not there yet, but I think we're going to get there where people start to relate, obviously size, weight to what you're running instead of, and I get it, but 4'3", 4'3", 4'3", excitement. There's a gigantic difference.

Of course, there's nuance to everything, but Peter Bukowski, locked on Packers, amazing stuff. Obviously, you can follow him at Peter underscore Bukowski. Go listen to the podcast, everything with Packers, man. I know just as much on the Packers as anyone else, just from following you. So really appreciate the pick today. Awesome breakdown on the team needs,

and I'm sure we'll have you on again next year. Thanks, Connor. All right, top 20 recap down, picks 21 and 22 in the books. That means we only have one more week of the guest mock draft series. I know I said it was going to come last Monday, but this upcoming Monday, the next episode of this podcast should, if everything goes according to plan, be a tailgate versus NFL stock exchange dueling mock draft episode. I'm so excited for it. Mike and Austin getting together with myself and Connor to make this happen. It should be a jam-packed episode.

A lot of fun. A lot of takes. Everything. That's coming on Monday. We're doing it live at 2 p.m. If you guys can catch it then, we'd love to talk to you in the chat while we're making it happen. If not, it will be up on YouTube and as a regular podcast as well.

Then we're going to have guest mock draft episodes on Tuesday, Thursday, and make sure we finish in time for draft week. A bonus episode on Saturday that's all coming next week thanks for listening to the NFL Stock Exchange we'll see you guys on Monday you