NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 40. Guest Mock Draft Series: Final Episode, Picks for Chiefs, Bengals & Lions (With BJ Kissel, Joe Goodberry & Jeff Risdon)

Episode Date: April 23, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers wrap up the Guest Mock Draft series with BJ Kissel to pick for the Chiefs, Joe Goodberry to pick for the Bengals and Jeff Risdon to pick for the Lions. Plus a recap of all the pick with Trevor and Connor at the end.

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I got it this year. It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast.

In this episode, we wrap up an incredible guest mock draft series with the final three picks, the Kansas City Chiefs, the Cincinnati Bengals, and the Detroit Lions at picks 30, 31, and 32. At the end of the episode,

we also recap the entire draft. We talk about the picks that surprised us the most, the fits that we really love, whether we saw it coming or not. We talk about what happened in this guest mock versus what we think might happen in the actual draft. Plus, relive a lot of the draft nuggets and information that we have gained over the last month. It's going to be a fantastic, jam-packed episode. I am Trevor Sycamore. With me, as always, is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell.

Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange Podcast. I am Trevor Sikama. That is Connor Rogers, and this is the final episode of the Guest Mock Trap Series. Thank you guys so much for rocking with us over the last couple of weeks as we have gotten to know these teams very, very well. Had a lot of really great guests on, learned a ton of information outside of just the picks that were made. Connor, this is one of my favorite things that I get to do every single year, and this year was no different. This is your first year in the co-host seat for it, so how was it for you?

Dude, it was fun being along for the ride. Obviously, my biggest takeaway being in the chair asking questions is what you learn, right? And it could be that you do a million mock drafts and you start to become stuck on things by accident. It's almost you're creating internal biases. Then you to someone that goes right no they view this guy like this so i thought the inside info was unbelievable i thought it painted a picture a pretty defined picture where when i you know you and i make our final mock draft and also when we make them

individually that i don't really find a lot of teams complicated anymore i'm not saying i'm gonna nail the pick or it's down to one position, but the fact that you could narrow so many teams down to two to three different positions, that's really my biggest takeaway from this exercise. And I hope the listeners kind of feel the same way. Yeah, and it's super helpful for us, obviously,

as we're doing our final drafts, trying to get the inside information, if you will. Well, we're not going to spend too much time here in this portion of the podcast because after our three segments with our three guests to finalize this thing connor and i are going to have a segment at the end of this episode recapping everything give you all the picks that were made highlight some of the picks that we we loved maybe some picks that confuse us maybe the new information that we learned along the way so we're going to spend most of our time talking to you at the end of the episode. We don't have any Devo Samuel update for you at the beginning of this podcast because there's a Friday afternoon,

he hasn't been traded, but who knows between now and when this episode drops, but we'll get right to the interviews. Did want to shout out our friends over at Jock Market, the presenting sponsor of this podcast. It's such a cool concept, guys. If you heard me talk about it before, I really love it. Their motto, stop betting and start trading. You buy and sell shares of players in real time with real money while games are actually happening. So it's the perfect mix between daily fantasy and fantasy sports that you know and love where you can say to yourself, hey, I want to, I really think that this guy's going to have a great night. Okay. Whether it's a certain matchup or he's just on a hot streak, something, and you go, okay, I'm going to pay $5 for five shares of this player. I'm going to invest $25. I'm betting $25 on it. Well, they have different payouts. And if he is the number one scoring fantasy player that

night, it might pay out $25 a share. So if you only bought it for $5 a share, that means that you're taking back like $100. You're winning $100 on that bet. And second place pays out, say, 24. Third place, 23, something. You'll be able to see all that information. It's a really cool way to get some skin in the game, have some betting, but also with a little bit of a stock market feel, which you know that we love here on this podcast. Deposit now with the promo code PFF, and you will get a 100 match on whatever your first deposit is uh within a hundred dollars so you also get a free pff edge subscription to over jockmarket.com backslash pff jockmarket.com backslash pff they've also got an app and speaking

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Connor and I will be with you at the end of this podcast to recap it all, but let's get it kicked off at number 30 we are now into the 30s it is number 30 in the yes mock draft series the kansas city chiefs and joining us to talk about the chiefs the second stint here because we had him at 29 as well we have a man who is about as plugged in as anybody possibly can be eat his bj kissel who works for kc sports network He's the CEO. He's the man with many hats. He's the man in the big chair, whatever you want his title to be. It probably fits BJ. And when I say that nobody knows the team better, I mean it because he worked for the team for a little bit, a little while and he's got the Superbowl ring to prove it. BJ,

thank you so much for joining us here, man. We really appreciate it. No, man. I'm honored to be on with a couple of legends like yourselves. Yeah. I, uh, with company now, I just feel like I'm the guy running around with duct tape, just kind of patching everything, making sure the boat stays afloat. But, uh, but yeah, it's been a lot of fun. I'm excited to be here and talk a little draft. We're, we're almost there guys. We're almost there is, uh, it are the words that my pillow needed to hear. Cause I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm not spending enough time with it as of late, but I'm very excited about it. The draft is coming single digit days away. We're almost a draft week. I'm very excited about it. Chiefs, they're a very interesting team in this draft because as I mentioned, they got 29 and 30. Not only do they have two first round picks,

they are back to back at the back end of the draft, which means everybody talks about them. Are they going to trade down? Are they going to be aggressive to trade up? I'll just ask you, you know, we obviously already have the pick at 29 here in this guest mock draft, but what do you think this team might do? Do you think they would be a team that's going to get aggressive? Maybe look up, jump into the teams for a player that might be really targeting, maybe move back with one of these picks, which way are you leaning here? When you look at a draft strategy here for the Kansas City Chiefs, Trevor, it's a great question. Cause if you would have asked me after the Tyree kill, I would have said that some of those assets would have already been traded away because

Brett Veach has shown that he's not afraid to be aggressive to go out and get guys. And so it was a little surprising that they hadn't used it to go out and get some veterans with some places where they need some guys right now. And for as long as I've covered the team and been around the team, I haven't been in a draft situation where I felt like they have holes. Like I feel like they do right now for a team that's trying to go win a super bowl, um, where they always sign some of those veteran players that might not be the highest upside, but you could plug them in to start and be okay. So you don't feel pigeonholed going into the draft to feel like you have to take a certain position, which is never a good strategy. When you're a team that's having the sign of success,

the chiefs are right now where you're always drafted at the end of first round. You have no idea who's going to be available. So nothing would really surprise me with what the chiefs would do where they go up and get somebody. I would be surprised if on the first couple of days, they didn't walk away. I already saw the wide receiver being taken, but cornerback. And then for me, it's edge rusher. I feel like right now, Mike Dana, the four Michigan defensive end who's drafted mid rounds a couple of years ago is slated as a starter outside of Frank Clark. And this is a team that finished 31st in the league in sacks last year. Haven't done a lot yet to upgrade the pass rush. And so that would be my main focus going into this draft. Thought maybe they'd do some kind of trade, make a big move,

do something to get a veteran player, but haven't done that. So it looks like they're going the young route, and I'm excited to see what they do. They've got a lot of assets, and we have an aggressive GM, but they've got some holes they've got to fill, and they've got some depth they've got to add. BJ, you were in the building during golden years, and now that they're over, because Pat Mahomes is going to be a problem

for a long time, but what I mean by that is, you you know that trifecta of Tyree Kill, Pat Mahomes and Travis Kelsey and Tyree Kill player still in his prime what was your surprise factor because I think for all of us on the outside looking in we had really assumed it was a layup this was going to be a mega deal but it was going to get done and he was going to be there for at least three or four more years and potentially even the rest of his career. And then we blinked. And one day later, there was two teams involved in trading for him. Two hours later, he was in Miami Dolphins. So what, what was your surprise factor with the Tyree trade? The first one was that it was kept under wraps the way that it was, that it really did come out of nowhere. Even here

locally, there weren't even really whispers of anything like this going down, which for a trade of that magnitude with the players that we're talking about and the people that it was, that it really did come out of nowhere. Even here locally, there weren't even really whispers of anything like this going down, which for a trade of that magnitude with the players that we're talking about and the people that were involved, it was surprising that it kind of came out of nowhere. But once you start to peel back, and I'll say this in the beginning, there is no case in which I'm going to say the Chiefs are going to be better, especially in the short term, without Tyreek Hill. That's just knowing there are people that are trying to make that kid not possible. Now, am I still going to be confident when Patrick Mahomes and an Andy Reed led offense step on the field? I'm always going to be confident that they can put points

on the board. But on the flip side, I'm also not going to criticize the organization for not handing a blank check and making any player, regardless of Tyree kill or Orlando Brown's coming up, whoever it is, I'll never fault any organization for not making a player outside of Patrick Holmes, the highest paid player in NFL history at the time at his position, especially when you've got a roster that has holes on it. The only way to fill those are to get assets back. Now, a lot of people are, we're criticizing Brett Veach saying, you know, he's not a good GM because he couldn't get this done. I don't think GMs are great because they can hand a player a check saying we're gonna make you the highest paid player ever at your position. You're not a good GM for doing that. You're a good GM for using the $72.2 million you didn't spend on Tyreek in a

quality way over the next few years. And you hit on these draft picks and you go win a few more Superbowls. And then we could say, Hey, he's a good draft pick, or he's a good GM because of what he did with this. So I was surprised overall that it happened Connor for the same reasons that you just mentioned, and that you thought during the prime that they would do whatever they can to keep these guys together. But when the money comes in and I feel like, and we're not ever going to know exactly what was offered and how it all went down, but from what we've gathered, the Chiefs did make an offer.

He wanted more, and they just decided, you know what? This is the time to make a move like this. We won't know, and I'm going to hold my reserve judgment to see if they go hit on all these picks. Everybody's going to praise it. But until then, everyone's going to criticize. Let's see what the Chiefs' offense looks like without Tyreek Hill. Let's see what they do with these picks. and they go in a few super bowls people are

going to change their minds about what this looked like but i was surprised i don't think they're going to be better next year without him but i still think they'll be good enough to go up and put up points but they got to do some stuff on the defensive side hopefully they hit on some of those picks they got in the draft well to continue that part of the conversation something i definitely wanted to ask you about is you know the team that you cover was right smack dab in the middle of the biggest arms race that we're seeing in the nfl which is that afc west i mean the raiders go out and they get chandler jones and they get davante adams and the chargers they get khalil mac and they get jc jackson broncos go out and they get russell wilson right and the chiefs for as much as people would have said like,

okay, baseline, they're still the best team in that division. They then lose what some people consider to be the best wide receiver in the NFL. And so that brings the Kings down a little bit and everybody else below them kind of elevated themselves. So what do you think about the Chiefs place right now in that afc west it's gonna be a really boring answer guys but like until somebody beats you like you are still on top and so like as a chiefs fan bangles want to say we're the best team in the afc it's like yeah you beat us like i feel like we're confident enough to go do that but it's very much like

that boring old traditional take like until someone beats you you're thes. They've won the division six years in a row. It's not like it's just a couple of good seasons. They have dominated this division. And there are a lot of Chiefs fans that are upset about all the moves. And why aren't the Chiefs making moves and all of this? I don't care how any of it plays out. I just know that people thought Chiefs fans were insufferable before. And I'm pretty like low.

I don't get too high, too low on anything. If the Chiefs win the division this year and they have the kind of success that they've had the division I will be insufferable too because we've never seen to everything you just said Trevor we've never seen teams within a division make this kind of moves all within one offseason to try and catch up to the Chiefs like it is what they are doing and not just them but everybody in the AFC and so if the Chiefs can still go out after not spending all this money in the off season and all these fans getting all this hope, Raiders fans getting hope is a great thing for chiefs fans, because there's nothing more fun than just snatching all of that hope away when you still go out and you win the division. And so I love the fact that, that all the games would be in

prime time. It's going to be, the games are going to be huge. It's going to be a lot of fun. Eventually the other shoe was going to drop and people were going to push back. You know, people were going to, the, the GMs, the teams and leagues were going to make a move. I think anybody expected it to be quite all at the same time, the way it went down, but it's got all eyes on us. And, you know, as competitors, guys who played sports, you guys know, like you want to play against the best, you know,

you don't necessarily want everyone to leave and for the path to be easy, you want to know that you earned it when you got, when you got through it and the cheese can go out and win the division still, man, that's a chest pumping type move. Just to say, you guys can do whatever you want. You can bring in whoever you want. We're still the Kings of the Kings of the hill here. And that's the way that I look at it, but no doubt that it's going to be one of the toughest schedules we've seen in recent history because Chiefs schedule is absolutely brutal this year as soon as it comes out. I mean, their non-division games are playing the Bills, the Bucks, and the Bengals.

Like the other three games. So it's a monster of a schedule they got this year. Looking at this roster, BJ, you hit on it earlier a little bit that edge pass rush is an area of need. They got this year. Looking at this roster, BJ, you know, you hit on it earlier a little bit, that edge pass rush is an area of need. They have other needs. All we talk about, I know the national draft media with this franchise, at least 90% of the time is wide receiver because of the Tyree trade.

What's a need on this roster that people are overlooking? It might not be a pick at 29 or 30, but it could be one of those many day two pick selections that they have that people kind of blink and go, oh, wow, I didn't realize. Maybe they're a year away from that need, or maybe they're not as strong as that spot as we looked from the outside. Maybe if it's day two, we already talked about Ed Rusher. Ed Rusher, cornerback, they lost Traverius Ward this offseason.

They hadn't brought in. Yeah, and he got paid. That's great to see i mean those are the moves when you look back that that you have success with the reason that g m's i mean they got char various ward by trading parker anger to who's a backup offensive lineman to the cowboys got char various ward and then flipped them a few years later and he goes and gets that huge deal which is awesome for the player it worked out for everybody uh we talked about edge rusher i'm going to talk about it as much as i possibly can before the draft and that it is an area that they need to address

but another one sneaky in the second round tight end i wouldn't look much past the chiefs bringing in a guy to learn under travis kelsey i've been saying it for four years that i thought they were going to bring in another tight end uh they drafted doa gray a couple years ago or excuse me last year. Don't see him as the heir apparent. It's a guy that a good special teams player, not necessarily one of those traditional tight ends going to line up. They brought Blake Bell back, but going out and getting, I know everybody's high on the UCLA on Dulwich. That wouldn't surprise me at all. If somebody felt like that to take him in the second round, wouldn't surprise me at all. You can always

beef up the defensive line, anything like that. But for me, it's all edge rusher corner wide receiver right now. And I would double up on edge rusher. They need some, they need some bodies in there and some, some guys with some high ceilings that can get after it. If you want to go win a super bowl, you got to get after the passer. And when the chief struggled last year, particularly defensively, a lot, it was based on, they just weren't getting to the quarterback before we get to your pick which i now have a feeling what position group you're going to go after with this selection here in this guest mock draft we have our guests make the pick as if it was them because i think that's a little bit of fun it adds some flavor to it beat reporters don't often get to do that sort of thing so i love kind of putting it in their hands put a little pressure

on them and having them make the pick of what they believe is best but for the people who are listening you have a unique background in which you were with the team covering the team as a team reporter for the entirety of of each's um tenure is as a gm at least up until uh you you are now with uh with casey sports network but what did you learn from Veach with his draft strategies? How he approaches things? I mean, is he prioritizing athletes? Is it a certain kind of mentality? Like, are there any draft nuggets that you really picked up on him

over those couple of years when you were in the building and he was in the building of the types of players that you feel like the Chiefs are always going to gravitate towards i think athletes would be one but i think the biggest takeaway guys and i don't have to tell you guys this you're plugged in you talk to guys you know is that brett gets all the credit and all the blame and he's the one out there but there's an entire staff of people that that are not afraid to check him and to have those discussions and disagree and um i think the biggest misconception and this, and I'll get back to Brett, but it's the biggest misconception is that it's all Brett and that he's making

every single decision and the buck stops with him and with Andy Reed and whatever that, that structure is between them on how these decisions are made. But those area scouts, those checkers, the, those guys that, the guys like Ryan poles who uh, who were behind the scenes that did a lot of the work and were instrumental in getting guys like the offensive line. Uh, that was like Ryan's specialty there. So they go out and get Creed Humphrey and they go out and get trace and then he goes and gets a GM. And then the buck stops with him and he

learns he's, they make a good move. He gets all the credit and something doesn't go well. Uh, he gets all the blame. But, uh, one thing I've learned just from being around Brett is that he listens to his guys and that they have a great relationship when, you know, you're not interviewing guys, you're just kind of around, you can just see the dynamic with guys like Mike Borgonzi, who should be a GM in this league and the way that he has been with the chiefs for a long time, the way that they have that relationship. And we call it, you know, we joke about trust factor, you know,

everybody's got to trust everybody, but when you've got quality relationships and everybody's kind of rolling that boat in the same direction, you can lean on those guys. Stuff I used to say when I was at the chiefs and people are just like, you're just saying that because you're paid to say those things. It's, it's honestly true with organizations that have success that they can lean on those guys. But with Brett, you know, he'll,

he'll lock in on guys that he likes and he'll, he'll let Andy Reed know. It's been the case where there was Sean McCoy, Fletcher Cox, then Mahomes became one of those guys that has been really public. But yeah, he's always going to go after young athletes, guys that have the athletic profile to go out and play at this level is kind of what he'd always talked about. But really, it's even when he wasn't on the record talking about trusting his scouts and trusting the work that they go and do and

trusting the coaching staff for the types of players they want to fit in their scheme and having the coaching staff and the personnel staff have that trust with each other to talk through what they need, what packages they want to run and how they want to take things. And the more open communication you have, like the better you're going to be. And I think the chiefs are really, really good at that. And there's a reason that they had sustained success beyond just a really talented quarterback and a Hall of Fame head coach. All right, BJ, you're on the clock. It's time. Pick number 30 for the Chiefs. This is a franchise that in this particular draft, they're obviously sitting where they already got their wide receiver.

And we know you hinted at this a couple of times. Where are you going with this pick for the Chiefs? Not a huge surprise that I'm going edge rusher. When you first sent it over, I was going to go with Carl Loftus because a lot of them he had been available, but he already went higher. And so I'm going with this one. Yeah, it was higher than I've seen before, but not terribly surprising because he's a guy that um for all intensive purposes with these

edge guys could start day one and the chiefs need that guy the problem as i look at the board and where we're at right now not sure there's an edge that you could plug and play day one that's ready to go uh when the chiefs need that guy and so i will double up on edge i'll cue you on that if we do this and you go to 50 or 62 it'd be another edge rusher but i'm going with michigan addresser david ojabo number 30 and the for the reason i just mentioned i know he's coming off the achilles but the chiefs are going to be good enough where they're never going to have a legitimate shot without trading a ton of assets to get a top three or even a top four edge rusher in any draft when you're drafting at the end of the first round if and looks like david ojabo is available right here he may red shirt a year that's why you

take him in the first round you get that fifth year option uh which is why i wouldn't want to wait and try to take him at 50 because you're going to get him healthy for four for four years we take him in the first round if this first one might be um kind of a red shirt year for him but gives him a chance hadn't played a lot of football, gives him a chance to be around his guy, Frank Clark, a guy that he had watched when he was at Michigan, a guy that he had studied. Frank is really good working with young players. And you can get a talent like Ojabo.

The chiefs wouldn't normally have a chance to get a talent like this. I trust the vice president of sports performance, Rick Burkholder and their staff to be able to say, we went through all the medical testing. It's going to check out Achilles. We saw it with Cam Akers. We saw it with Eric Fisher guys are coming back sooner rather than later, but you get him ready where he's healthy for the playoffs and can give you that pass rush while he's working on his run game. I like the idea of getting that kind of talent there. All right. Ojabo going to back end of the first round. Connor, do we think he sneaks

in the first round still, or where are you with Ojabo right now? I do. I think he's too talented. I think BJ nailed it. It's that fifth year option that you absolutely want for him. And man, if this happened in real life, I think he would be back for the playoffs. And that would be fascinating to watch him just go full steam ahead. You throw him on the field on third downs, all these aggressive teams that make the playoffs go for it on fourth downs. You put him on the field on third downs. All these aggressive teams that make the playoffs go for it on fourth downs. You put him on the edge. You let him rush wide. You just tell him to pin his ears back and go.

You simplify things for him as a rookie when he gets back from this injury. I would not rule out him making an impact as a rookie if he goes to a contender like Kansas City. I completely agree with what you just said, Connor, and how BJ set it up. He said it perfectly. This would be a huge pick for them. I have often, every time I get to the back end of the first round, if David Ojabo is there, he's going either 29 or 30. Just how spicy I'm feeling.

Does he want to go with a two in front of the number or a three? But he is going at one of these spots for exactly the reasons that BJ outlined there. You know, you love him. BJ Kissel, thank you so much for joining us, man. Everybody go read all of his awesome work. Go subscribe to the YouTube channel. Listen to all the podcasts over at KC Sports Network. We appreciate you, my friend.

I appreciate it, guys. Almost wrapping things up. We are at pick number 31, which is the Cincinnati Bengals. I didn't think it was going to be the Cincinnati Bengals, but damn it, it was the Cincinnati Bengals I didn't think it was going to be the Cincinnati Bengals but damn it it was the Cincinnati Bengals picking here as a Super Bowl contestant to help us figure out man where the Bengals go from here how they capitalize off of an incredible year we have Twitter's favorite Bengals fan it is Joe Goodbury here with us on the podcast Joe thank you so much for joining us my friend thanks for having me on I feel like we've talked and had this situation for at least like five or six years now where we've gone

through and picked for the Bengals. And I think we've been pretty close every time. That's why I always got to keep bringing you back on for the guest mock draft, because you know what you're talking about, not only for things that the Bengals need, but you're also pretty good at predicting what the Bengals might do. Before we get into that, let's talk about last year a little bit, right? Because I remember there was a point towards the end of the year, I think it was right in the beginning of the month of December. There were seven and six, right? Before they go on that three-game winning streak and clinch the playoff berth.

And when you were sitting there at seven and six watching this team, where was your mind at? Yeah, I think it was the overtime loss in San Francisco. That's what got him to seven and six right there. Where were you on this team? Did you still think that the playoffs were in play? Because, I mean, let alone the Super Bowl, I think that was still a long way out at that point.

But where was your mindset before they went on that little three-game win streak to make it to the playoffs at the end of the year? That game is a great inflection point of the season because they're down, I believe, 21-7 at halftime to the 49ers, and the 49ers couldn't cover anyone, right? They're a good front. They're trying to run into them in the first half, and it's like, what are you guys doing?

Do you realize you have Joe Burrow? You have these weapons. When are you going to ride this offense and get to it? They come out in the second half, and it's like, all right, Burrow, carry this team as far as you can go, and that was the next two months, and he carried them as far as they can go. And that was the next two months. And he carried them as far as they can go. And it's funny because they get into overtime, right? So he comes back.

They score in epic fashion. They come back. They go into overtime. They get down to about the 15 or so, and they run, run. Third down, Burrow gets sacked. And, like, that, again, shows how the rest of the season is going to go as well. Like, you needed him. He could have probably provided.

The guy was open, and you get sacked because the offensive line is such an issue. They kick the field goal, 49ers drive right down and score a touchdown on your defense games over and over time. That kind of is how the Superbowl went. And then some of the playoff games went is where the offensive line couldn't hold up. It ended up being a real damper on the entire season at the end. I mean, great season, great year, but you just think, man, a couple more pieces on that line and they probably have their first championship. Man, looking at this offseason, they, I think, exceeded expectations of what they could do in the pro market with the offensive line to fill three spots that you just look at on paper and you go, yeah, I feel really, really good about that. They flipped this unit over where I don't see a lot of needs on the offensive side of the ball. We know how three deep they are at

wide receiver. We know what this backfield looks like. So I ask you, I ask you this show on offense, how close do you think they are? Is it something where they'd like somebody to come in and compete at left guard or compete at tight end? Or is there an area that I'm overlooking? No, I think you're right. I think if they're going to make a draft pick on the offensive side, it would be somebody that they feel can come in, and either you move Ted Karras to left guard, the guy they signed to play center. He's played left guard.

I thought his best year actually last year was at left guard, and he could do that if a Tyler Lindenbaum is there. Tight end, you lose C.J. Zalman, they bring in Hayden Hurst, which is probably a fair one-for-one tradeoff there. I'm fine with that. You may lose something in terms of versatility and maybe a little bit of blocking and physicality, but I think you want to develop a guy for that spot because Hayden Hurst is on

a one-year deal. He's 29 years old already as a former older first round pick. So I do think those are the two areas, left guard, tight end. And I do think the fourth receiver plays a role on a lot of teams and the Bengals really don't have one. And I think that could be a guy that doubles as a return man, maybe a punt returner. Maybe it's a scat back type of a, you know, a gadget type guy. And I think that's maybe a day three, maybe they go a little bit more aggressive and get into the third round there.

If it's, if it falls a certain way, but yeah, I think the offense is pretty complete other than maybe some complimentary or adding competition. Good place to be. Yeah, right. It is yeah right it is no it definitely is before we get to some of the uh thresholds i know you know with this team because i definitely want to dig into that i'm going to bring up something that's going to make connor laugh here we've got to talk about linebacker for the cincinnati bengals because connor and i we there was a point to where we continually if devon boyd or if nicobe dean made it back to

number 31 for the cincinnati bangles on our mock draft episodes we'd pick up for the bangles because we go okay the linebacker group's like okay but i feel like one of those guys would definitely upgrade it and bangles fans would come after us and be like they're not picking a linebacker they don't need a linebacker so were we crazy were we crazy to think that they would upgrade linebacker what does the team think about that position is it even in play at the back end of the first round or were Bengals fans were yelling at us in the comment section were they correct yeah I think it would have to be a unique situation to take a linebacker maybe that's

a guy that's top 15 on their board somehow is still there at 31 and they maybe they want to address corner maybe they want to address defensive tackle and the guy's just not there that they want. Right. So then you're sitting here, Nicoby Dean, he's real high on their board. Let's say, yeah, I could see that scenario, but we've gone a lot of years with them really undervaluing linebacker. And even the guys they have, they spent a bunch of mid round picks, Jermaine Pratt, Logan Wilson, Akeem Davis, Gay, they're in a way like Marcus Bailey is a seventh round guy.

I thought that was a good pick a couple years ago. He's played some minutes, and he's done well. So I think they feel good about Pratt and Logan Wilson. You really only start two linebackers in today's NFL. They like Akeem Davis-Gaither when he has to come in and be the third guy and fill in any of those other two positions. So they like their linebackers. They're all young.

They're all athletic for the first time in forever. So, yeah, I find it hard to believe they will take one. It would have to be a slap in the face type value. So if you guys liked him that high and he was clear best PPA on the board, I get it. I just, you know, I don't expect that to happen. Looking at the front four, Trey Henderson, obviously a dynamite free agent signing had a great year. They have Sam Hubbard there. He kind of hinted that defensive line a little bit, and this is a great edge class. It has some answers at interior defensive line.

Definitely not as deep there, but it has some answers. Is this a group that it's not really a question of if they will invest in, but more so how early and often will they do it? Yeah, when you look at the defense as a whole, it's built off free agents. Really, it's Pratt and Logan Wilson, Jesse Bates and Sam Hubbard are the guys they drafted. That's it on this entire defense other than some backups. I think they need to start getting some youth,

not just on the defensive line. I think that's definitely what youth and cheap contracts in the secondary and the defensive line. The Bengals played a lot of on-man fronts, five twos, three, four defenses as a base defense. Last year, Larry Ogun jobe and bj hill about 700 snaps for both of them 412 or i believe combined if you go on pff and look at their snap breakdowns over the tackle for those two guys so i think they want a five tech type of dude

inside they really did not replace ogan jobe yet i do think they want to add there uh that edge everyone could draft an edge. They was drafted Joseph Asai last year in the third round. They felt they got tremendous value there. I had him as a potential first round guy. I think they think he's going to come back and provide some depth. Now, anytime a guy misses a full year, you can't really count on him or know exactly what you're going to get. So I do think defense men could be drafted at some point, but you remember they took three last year. It wasn't just Osai, it was Cam Sample, and it was Wyatt Hubert in the seventh round.

So I do think they're probably going to be cool on the end, but man, this class is so deep. You're going to be there in rounds two, three, maybe even four, where if you take your top five on your board, I bet you there's going to be an edge player in there somewhere. I totally forgot about Osai. I totally forgot they had Osai. I like Sample for what he was.

I know. That's really good. When you throw Joseph Osai's name in there, then you've got some really decent young depth there at edge. So that makes a lot of sense. Before we get to your pick, I do want to ask you about secondary. You mentioned secondary as one of those positions where you think they've got to get a little bit younger. They've got to draft somebody that they kind of develop into that room.

We see corners get drafted to the Bengles a lot in mock drafts what kind of corner will they be looking for at the back end of the first round and this is you'll feel free to plug a draft tendency or a threshold they might have a corner or just whoever and then like just some guys that you think might be on their radar when it comes to that back end of the first round. Yeah, they've always valued corner. Corner and wide receiver, they've never been afraid to draft those guys. Duke Tobin, who's basically the de facto GM, player personnel director, he's been with the team since early 2000s.

So you've got a lot of data and a lot of history. It's a very rare thing to be able to look back and say, okay, what kind of guys have they drafted over the last 20 years? And you've got 17 corners you can look at. It gives you a good, clear indication of what they like in that, whether it's production metrics, athleticism, size, thresholds they may have. They don't care about length, it seems, too much. So a Roger McCreary or a Trent McDuffie, they may not care at all.

They do like the speed, and they like guys that have tackle production. There's a lot of time that shows up. So they want guys that get involved. Basically, what does tackle production show you? It means the guy isn't afraid to stick his nose in there and play. Right. So he's not afraid to get physical. I think when you look at the corners on this team, you got show me a woozy on the one outside career year,

you have Mike Hilton who's a very good slot nickel corner. They feel real good about that. They got good enough play out of Eli Apple last year for what he was. They sent him to a one-year $4 million deal. Again, I think that's the spot where they're like, okay, if we can upgrade at 31, we'll do it. And if, you know, if, if you, if you have to go a different direction at 31, I think there's a lot of corners in round two or three that can end up being

your number two type guy that may be coming behind Apple and, you know, he'll play. Cause you're going to, you need four or five guys deep, but I'm looking for guys in this class that run fast uh or have really good agility because i think of guys like leon hall that they really liked before jonathan joseph uh william jackson these are fast athletic guys it's kind of weird the last couple times i drafted other than william jackson was dark west and ard and drake kirkpatrick weren't very athletic good tacklers good physical players so what did what went different in those two picks in the first round? Still, when I look at it, Kirkpatrick seems like the outlier to me

out of the guys that usually fit the mold. So when I'm looking at this class, I think they would like Kyler Gordon despite his 4-5-2 because his agility is crazy. I think he's really good in the heading and zone. I think he's well coached at Washington. I think he's very physical and willing to tackle and come up and hit guys plus i think he's going to eventually move into the slot in three or four years and be tremendous there where his speed isn't an issue i think kairi elam looks a lot like william jackson to me and a lot of the same mold of the way they drafted him you got straight

line taller guys that have good ball skills maybe aren't the most physical maybe don't have the highest um intensity all the time i think when you bring them in your room, though, and you say what kind of guy fits into our room, they hold each other accountable. Like, you miss a tackle, you're throwing money into a bucket, right? That's kind of a secondary they have. So you're kind of going to force that guy a little bit to elevate that style or that play that he has. And I do think a McCreary or a McDuffie

wouldn't be under their length thresholds, and that could be a pick, surprise pick maybe. All right, Joe, let's put you on the clock here. Obviously the Bengals picking towards the end of round one after an incredible season. Pick 31, you are on the clock. What's it going to be? Yeah, the way it went, I was instantly looking at corners. I wanted to see which guys went.

I looked at defensive tackles, wanted to see which guys were still there. Is it Devontae Wyatt still there? Is he too old? Is he not productive enough? Is he going to fit the threshold? I think they would be interested in a Wyatt. I think they'd be interested in a Logan Hall defensive tackle. I'm even interested in Travis Jones if that's in that range.

But I looked at corners squarely because I thought if Gordon or Elam were there, that'd be the way they'd go, depending on – I looked right at 25. Okay, who'd the Bills take? Did they go receiver? Did they go running back? Or did they go corner and start to run a right at 25. Okay, who'd the Bills take? Did they go receiver? Did they go running back? Or did they go corner and start to run a little bit earlier with the Chiefs right behind them as well? And maybe that will dry it up for the Bengals,

and they'd have to go to, you know, off the board or to a different position. Seeing that Kyrie Willem was still there out of Florida, I'm like, okay, that's the pick. I think he makes sense. I think he fits a lot of their mold, a lot of their thresholds. I think on tape, you get a guy that can maybe elevate your team into more of a man team if you have to, because every team plays both. They play zone, they play man.

But when it's third and four and the team wants to throw the ball, you're going to press and you're going to play man. You're going to hope these guys are going to hold up for two and a half seconds. And I think that's where Kyler Elam brings you, elevates you a little bit more than maybe an Andrew Booth, who I don't like as much in that situation, or maybe a Roger McCurry. I like Elam a little bit more on tape. I think the testing, the production, all that works to be a first round pick. And I thought it was an easy pick. Connor, what do you think about this one? Kyrie Elam going 31. That's the kind of corner that

Joe had for the Bengals. What do you think about the fit? I like it, man. Number one, I think Elam is worthy of this pick. I don't want that to get lost. He's been someone that is not a lock in every round one mock draft for whatever reason he's a really good player love the 2020 film specifically uh you got to love with how he ran at the combine i think that was a really good sign yeah and i think i really liked how joe laid it out with their corner situation you're not always looking at just 2022 and he will help there a lot he will play we know that. But this is more of Eli Apple on a one-year deal.

Now you have a guy that's going to be there for at least three to four years as a starter that can really help solidify that position long-term. Gets that youth, gets that talent to be able to play at that outside corner spot. Hopefully slow down some other teams as Joe Burrow can continue to pour on the points there in Cincinnati. Joe Goodberry, everybody go follow him on Twitter. He's a fantastic Bengals follow. Joe, thank you so much for joining us once again, my friend.

You're the best. Thanks for having me, guys. Here it is, folks. The final pick of the guest mock draft series. It is the Detroit Lions. They didn't pick number one, so I couldn't say start to finish, but it's close enough. We're wrapping things up with the Detroit Lions

and their second selection here in the first round and to join us to talk about the Lions not just what they're going to do at 32 but also a little bit at number two as well we'll pick his brain a little bit there he is a pillar a godfather of draft Twitter it is the one and only Jeff Rizzi works for LGM and Lionswire Jeff thank you so much for joining us capping off this guest mock chat series it's good to be with you and I'm glad that I'm going last it's always the best way to go you know you would have liked to have the Lombardi trophy to go with it but hey you know like maybe maybe we'll get there at some point and we'll have you back on for 32 and you can have a replica Super Bowl ring in your office so uh we might be fantastic

like we've had one playoff win in my lifetime and i'm 50 so yeah okay then let's just let's start with the playoffs let's make let's make the playoffs let's see if that can happen i mean that's a good start so let's let's get into how they can do that and i know we got you on to pick for 32 and we're gonna get to all that and talk about some options at the back end of the draft but i did want to pick your brain about number two overall because there's still some uncertainty i mean we are single digit way days away from round one of the draft it's almost draft week at this point talk to us about number two what you're hearing what you're feeling what's on the table for the lions if aiden hutchinson goes number one what do you think they'll look at trayvon walker goes

number one what do you think they'll be looking at run us through your number two scenarios right now for the line yeah so so the easy one is if Trayvon Walker or Ekonu goes number one Aiden Hutchinson goes two I that's that's pretty much everybody's best guess and I think it is the the best guess um we talked to Brad Holmes the general manager yesterday uh, and he didn't give anything. He actually left open the door for a quarterback, which is an interesting thought. I happen to think that it's either going to be like Hutchinson. If he's, if he's there, if not,

it's kind of between Trayvon Walker and Kayvon Thibodeau for me, that that's where I'm expecting them to go. Now could they, they throw a massive curveball and draft Sauce Gardner? Maybe. Malik Willis? Maybe. It seems very unlikely that they're not going to address pass rush there, though. This is a team they know they have to get more control over the opposing offense. And the way you do that, you do it with either better coverage or dictating tempo by having a guy up front who can impact the opposing offense. And the way you do that, you do it with either better coverage or dictating tempo by, by having a guy up front who can impact the opposing offense.

They don't have that. Charles Harris is their best pass rusher right now. They've got to do that. And they, they know that they also have a massive, massive, massive hole at safety. And Kyle Hamilton would be personally who I would take there if, if he not just was off the board, but I don't think they feel about him that way. And that's, you know, it is what it is on that. But yeah, Hutchinson is the easy way.

And man, if the Jaguars were to take Trayvon Walker, that would make everybody's life in Detroit a little bit easier. Jeff, I think one of the popular picks for the Lions at 32 has become, well, if they take a best player available at two, you can take a project quarterback at 32 and sit, well, if they take a best player available at two, you can take a project quarterback at 32 and sit him behind Jared Goff. And then obviously some people counter to that. Why would you do that? Because it's a weak quarterback class. What are your thoughts on that? We can assume Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis would probably be gone before 32, but when you get into

the Matt Corral, Desmond Ritter, Sam Howell kind of range. Does that make any sense for the Lions, or do they just kick this can down the road to a better class overall? You know, I do get the logic for it, and there's been a lot of mock drafts that have projected Desmond Ritter, and I can't say that they're wrong. Like, I don't know that. I don't think they know that yet, but it's difficult to envision them taking a quarterback there.

It really is. I know there's the whole hubbub about the fifth option and everything look this is a team and this cannot be stressed enough they like jared goff a lot more than than it seems humanly possible quite frankly they want it to work with jared goff that that means that they would have four premium draft picks they got two first this year two first next year that they don't have to use on a quarterback that you can build a pretty darn good team that way. So if golf is the answer, then, then you've got, it just makes so it's makes everything else so much easier and so much more important. And I think that, that look, I like the idea of Matt Corral. I like the idea of, of Sam Howell, frankly, um, around later, later but not at 32 I do think that if they are

going to take one I I do think that Sam Howell probably needs to get discussed more uh this was a guy that coached at the senior bowl I know quarterbacks coach Mark Brunel liked what he saw in him he does offer the the dimension of running he did run for nearly as many yards as Malik Willis did last year obviously in a very different style he He can uncork the deep ball. He's got experience starting with a variety of characters. We saw him in 2020 with a lot of guys that went on to the NFL, and he looked really good. And then we saw him last year with all those guys gone, and he persevered. He got off to a bad start, and I think everybody remembers

that Virginia Tech game. We all watched it. It was on national TV. It was the only game on. And after that, he played some pretty good football with a much less supporting cast. And I do think that in general, all of us are kind of downplaying the idea of Sam Howell. I don't think they're going to do it, but I do think that if they were going to do one at 32, or remember, they do have 34 as well. I think Howell was probably the guy that they would take, quite honestly. So I feel like we don't talk about this a lot with the lions roster because it feels

as though certainly a pick number number two is a bit rich for i'm talking about i'm a wide receiver where does this team think that they are with the wide receiver position because they bring in dj charke they've got reynolds they obviously haveon Ross St. Brown, who they're going to like as their slot guy moving forward. But how comfortable are they with receiver? And could receiver be something that they look at at the back end of the first draft of number 32? Because I feel like I don't see that a lot in mock drafts. But what do you think?

I do think it needs to be in play. Chark signed a one-year deal. It's a deal that is pretty good. It's sort of what they do with players, especially guys coming off of injury. They did it last year with Tyrell Williams. Didn't work. So they're trying it again.

But if they can get a true game breaker, a guy that can work outside while Amon Ra, the sun god works on the inside. And remember, he was one of the best wide receivers in the NFL over the last six weeks of the year. They're looking to build off that. And they're going to have TJ Hawkinson back as, as a threat down the seam. So if they can get a, a vertical X receiver,

I think they will go for that. I don't, I don't think they'll hesitate on that. And that's definitely in play at 32 and 34, either, either one of those picks, it would have to be the right guy. I don't think they're going to take a slot receiver. I don't think they're going to take a smaller guy. I think they want a big guy who can also open the red zone. This offense was rotten in the red zone last year they need big targets who can get open and present themselves for jared golf or whoever winds up taking over for jared golf as a guy that can put six on the board instead of settling for the 28-yard field

goals that they are so accustomed to all right jeff let's put you on the clock early here so we can talk about this pick because this has been one of the most fascinating selections of any mock trap, because I feel like every time we get to the Lions at 32, you go, man, one or two really, really good players, like top 20 players, always seems to be there because so many teams ahead of them have to reach for a tackle or have to maybe even reach a little bit for a wide receiver that it kind of plays into the Lions' hands. They have a lot of needs, but like you said, they also pick a 34 where there's more flexibility here. So where are you going for the Lions at the back end to close things out in round one? You know, when I, when I saw the list of who has taken, I'm like, oh, safeties are here.

Like this is great. Safety is the biggest need on the team for me. They've got Tracy Walker, who they brought back. Good player. They like him a lot. And I do too. I think he's a very good starter in the split safety scheme. The other starter that they brought in Deshaun Elliott for a league minimum. This is a guy who has missed more games than he's played in his four-year NFL career. I like him.

I like the signing. But quite literally, that's their safety room right now. Brady Breeze, CJ Moore, that's the rest of it. They're moving Will Harris to corner, so he's not playing safety anymore. So this is a radically huge need on the team. So I'm looking, and I got Dax Hill is there. Jaquan Brisker is there. Like, do I flip the coin?

And the coin flip for me came down to who do I think is a little bit more positionally versatile, and that's Dax Hill out of Michigan. I think I love the way that he fits. And again, Aaron Glenn is the defensive coordinator. This is a former NFL defensive back. He played under the Parcells system. We all know what that means for Parcells and safeties and defensive backs. Like, you've got to be versatile. You've got to be able to cover.

But you also have to be able to come downhill and pop somebody in the mouth. And Dax Hill can do all that so i just bringing this more towards a little bit of a predictive point of view you obviously think safety is a huge need but a couple questions ago you talked about kyle hamilton saying oh kyle hamilton should be in the mix at number two you said the team probably doesn't feel that way so obviously you're taking daxton hill here in this guest mock draft but do you think the team feels like safety is a big need yeah they do um they clearly very clearly are aware i think the the stigma of taking a safety at two for a franchise that swung and so far has missed at jeff okuda at three a couple of years ago is is you know and

and it's too early to write Okuda off by the way. He looked phenomenal last summer before he got hurt. He looked like the alpha dog that they needed in training camp. Unfortunately he played 31 plays last year. The air look, the arrow is still out there for him. It's not pointing up anymore, but it's not like pointing down yet either, but that that's a very difficult thing to overcome for organization, you know, overcoming your, your own sordid past. It's sort of like the Browns drafting quarterbacks at 22

every time. Like you just can't do that again. It doesn't matter who's there. I don't think they can, I don't think they can take a defensive back, which is sort of why I also don't think that the sauce gardener or Derek Stingley jr. Talk while it's out there. I don't, I don't think that's very credible at all. But at 32, absolutely. You know, they are aware that they need an impact talent in the back end. And one of the things that Brad Holmes said was we need impact players. And that doesn't just count at two. It counts at 32.

It counts at 34. It counts at 66. This is a team that can't afford to really miss on any of those picks. They are building something. And I like what they're building, but they have to get a lot more talent. This they, and like Dax Hill is, he's an easy choice because I look at him, he's the best slot cornerback prospect in this draft as well as being a

safety. And I like that a lot. Like if you're getting the lines of cornerback, they need a slot more than they need an outside guy. They actually have some pretty good young talent an outside cornerback they need a slot so if he starts out then as your slot corner for a year or two and then transitions in like that's a no-lose situation for me anybody yeah there's no arguing this pick to me I mean Dax Hill is probably my top player on the board in this spot, but I have to ask, Jeff, was there any debate between taking him or N'Kobe Dean? I do know they need some linebacker help as well. No. And I'll tell you, I don't think they think they need linebackers. Interesting. They brought Alex Anzalone back with enthusiasm. It's probably the easiest way to say that. They drafted Derek Barnes last year. They traded up for him. He will be one of the two starters.

Anzalone will be one of the others, but I'll bring this one up. Sean Dion Hamilton is back. Sean Dion Hamilton last year in training camp was starting over Anzalone in their defense before he got hurt. They like him a lot. They think he's their cover linebacker. They, they, they do have some other options. Josh Woods is back. They brought in Chris board from the Ravens. I think they think they're good at linebacker. They, they, they do have some other options. Josh Woods is back. They brought in Chris board from the Ravens. I think they think they're good at linebacker. So, and,

and I will say this also just looking at the board, I don't think N'Kobe Dean is the Georgia linebacker that they would take here. I think it would be Quay Walker. I think he fits more of what they're looking for as a bigger guy who can take on blocks, who can, you know, kind of get to the outside and and isn't as dependent upon really good defensive line in front of him as what nicobe dean is i like it connor this is why we have jeff good info this this is why we have jeff on what a way to cap off the guest mock draft

series it is daxton hill at number 32 for the detroit lions jeff thank you so much for joining us man we really appreciate it my pleasure guys thanks so much for having us, man. We really appreciate it. My pleasure, guys. Thanks so much for having me. There it is, Connor. The Guest Mock Draft Series. Dax Hill at the end for the Detroit Lions, wrapping it all up. Let's talk about it. Let's get into this,

but we'll recap it once and for all for everybody. I know that if you're watching on YouTube, you can check the read more, the show more, the caption, and it'll have the full order there in there for you. But we'll recap it one more time for our podcast only audio friends the jacksonville jaguars selected a hutchinson trayvon walker went to the detroit lions number two kyle hamilton to the texans at three cave on tibeto to the jets at four charles cross the giants at five panthers evan neal at six sauce garner to the giants there at five. Panthers, Evan Neal at six. Sauce Garner to the Giants there at seven. Falcons took Jordan Davis at eight.

Seahawks took Derek Stingley at nine. Jets took Iki Okwunu at 10. The Washington Commanders took Drake Leonard at 11. Tyler Linderbaum to the Minnesota Vikings at 12. George Karloftis to the Texans at 13. Jermaine Johnson, 14, to the Baltimore Ravens. Malik Willis to the Philadelphia Eagles at 15. Thanks, Ben. Trevor Penning went to the New Orleans Saints at 16.

Trent McDuffie to the Chargers at 17. Jameson Williams to the Eagles at 18. Chris Olave to the Saints at 19. Andrew Booth to the Steelers at 20. Devin Lloyd to the Patriots at 21. Traylon Burks to the Packers at 22. Arizona Cardinals went Zion Johnson at 23. Dallas Cowboys, Garrett Wilson at 24.

What a steal there for Jeff. Oh, wow. Buffalo Bills went Brees Hall at 25. I'm sure we'll talk about that. The Tennessee Titans went Kenyon Green at 26. Buccaneers went Louis Seen at 27. Logan Hall, 28 to the Packers. Chiefs back-to-back here at 29 and 30.

George Pickens and David Ojabo. Bengals, Kyyer Elam at 31. And then the lions, as I said, Daxon Hill at 32. Connor, where do you want to start, man?

There's, there's so much to dig into. There's a lot to get into with this. There's a lot of information to recall from some of the great guests that we've had on this series. Where do you want to start? I think we have to stay in the top five, right?

We don't want to get too far down the road right away. And you look at, you know, the top five, a lot of people will say Charles cross was the surprise of the top five maybe when that pick happened now that we're a week away from the draft it doesn't feel that crazy at all but i think we look at kyle hamilton there right trev like when you look at i think who we had on and john mclean there was another thing i noticed while doing this series was the guests that, you know, have done this so long,

have covered one team so long that they mentally, and there's nothing wrong with this. I actually found it fascinating, could not get away from the team's trajectory. Right. And what I mean by that is they wouldn't do something that the team wouldn't do. And even ledger had said this,

and he's been going covering the bucksucs for, what, two years, where he was like, I wasn't going to get completely off the rails just because I'm allowed to on this series. And some guests probably got a little bit like that. And some guests, like John McClain, in my opinion, were very, this is the team. This is something they would do. These are things they wouldn't do.

I found it fascinating. He was ruling out something like wide receiver here. So he goes Kyle Hamilton. Kyle Hamilton is a player that is viewed as not going in the top seven picks anymore. I think everybody looks at Atlanta as where it starts for him, and he could fall all the way to Washington or beyond. So for me here, Trev, I don't know if this is one where, because we have the dates next to the picks.

That pick was made on March 24th. We are now almost a full month past that. Did time age this pick? Or have we aged ourselves and overthought Kyle Hamilton's draft stock? Yeah, that's always the fascinating thing to look at. It was actually March 22nd when we recorded the episode. It came out on the 24th.

And so it's been a long time man that's a month it's a month ago that we made that pick there for the Houston Texans with Kyle Hamilton at three and I think at the time John McClain retired that's how long it's been you're right uh salute to the legend but you're right you're retired it is it is funny when you when you look at things like that because you mentioned the Charles Cross thing. We had Pat Leonard on to pick for the Giants at five, and we thought, look, Ike Ikuonu's still on the board. Evan Neal's still on the board. You got the corners on the board as well.

A couple good pass rushers too. And he goes, Charles Cross. And you and I were like, whoa, he picked Cross's OT1. We had John Schmilk on a couple of picks later, and John was having some fun poking at pat leonard and honestly man looks completely realistic now if i was doing a realistic mock draft and heck when we do our realistic mock uh our final mock draft coming up next week i might even have that in there for the new york giants for them to make that selection at number five and it's it's just

you really do it's it's picks that are made and you go no way and then a little bit of time goes by and you you realize that these people cover these teams for a reason and they actually are sometimes really ahead of the curve so I think that Pat might have been there I was fascinated by where Jordan Davis went in this mock draft he goes number eight overall to the Atlanta Falcons and i don't know if the falcons are going to take him at number eight connor but i think his over under right now jordan davis's is 13 and a half i think it's either 13 or 14 and a half right now for where he would go and for as much as i love the mock draft exercises and putting players to certain teams to fill needs

and tendencies, I have a hard time convincing myself that the NFL is going to draft 13 players before Jordan Davis. I don't know where he's going to go. I don't know exactly what the match is going to be, but from what we have heard from gms as they are doing their pre-draft press conferences a lot of gms don't like this draft and some of them are sugarcoating a little more than others some are like oh you know we got a lot on the table but it's just not a good year for draft brandon bean said he didn't even have close to 32 first round picks nick casario basically said this draft is a crap shoot right and you've got so many gms that are kind of and shoot number one overall trimball right we're still we still got four guys on the board so with jordan davis i don't know if he's gonna i think him going at number eight in this draft

shocked a lot of people but i'm here to tell you that it's it's probably not going to be a perfect need fit for jordan davis i think some team's just going to draft a perfect need fit for Jordan Davis I think some teams just going to draft them somewhere above or under where his current over under odd is right now I think Jordan Davis is fascinating because in scouting's simplest forms you always are trying to make your team bigger faster and stronger and there is no player in this draft that represents that trifecta more than Jordan Davis. And there aren't a lot of players in any draft that represent that more than Jordan Davis. And you're looking at this draft and you're right, Trevor, there is a lot of dart throws in this draft, right? Like this could be a draft where we look back at it from now and we look at the top 20 picks and we go,

man, two stars came out of that, four starters, you know, and maybe eight to ten busts. And I actually don't even, I'm not saying I believe that, but I'm just saying how it can go. But it could, yeah. It would be shocking if Jordan Davis just isn't a player in the league, right? And, you know, it would have to be like he just couldn't stay conditioned. It would have to be like, there's nothing about him

that says he will not be successful in what he does best, and that is stopping the run, eating gaps, containing lanes, freeing up the rest of your defense. So I like that point a lot. He is the representation of scouting in its simplest forms, and sometimes you need to get back to that for me the last one in the top 10 was Derek Stingley by Mina when Mina made that pick at the time and that was probably the most the biggest reaction you and I had on the show right live um because some people as you could tell we didn't know who they were picking in advance you know at the time I was and he hadn't worked out yet all those things once again this is one that goes back to march you look at it and you go man like yes there was a time where derrick stingley was going to be a top five pick yes we know he has such high potential and ball

skills and all these things but you look at seattle who have had a odd off season the moving on from russell wilson a lot of noise around around DK Metcalf they have significant questions on their offensive line but then now that you sit here before the draft and you go truly like when you look at this draft truly in the top 10 picks how many guys do you think can be superstars at their position and when I use that term I mean a top three player at their position in the entire NFL I don't feel that way about Aiden Hutchinson. I don't either. I do feel that way about Kayvon Thibodeau, but I think it's a long shot. Like, he's never going to be a Miles Garrett or anything like that.

I don't feel that way about Trayvon Walker. I don't even feel that way about Kyle Hamilton, and I like him a lot. Like, I think he'll be a really good safety. Yep. I do feel that way about Derek Stingley. And I'm traditionally low on him because of the health but when you just package it into Derek Stingley's best he's one of the rare players in this class you probably count him on one hand that could be a superstar at his position I agree completely and

I think that's a great way to put it in honestly man that's why he's my top corner and that's why I think he should still go in the top 10 because he presents you that ceiling and especially in this draft class where you are you know searching for team need roster holes to fill versus talent i mean i'd be i'd be taking derrick stingley man i would be betting on his ability because of what you just said there the ceiling that he has speaking of ceiling i do want to touch on number 15. We had Malik Willis going at 15, and I was wondering where we were going to get a quarterback off this board. I figured we would get Malik, but I wasn't sure if we'd get any other quarterback.

And lo and behold, Connor, when we put the pressure on the guests to make a pick, if you will, nobody took another quarterback. Once Malik Willis was off the board nobody took kenny pickett nobody took desmond ritter nobody took sam howell nobody took matt corral and from the conversations that we had i mean am i remembering it correctly basically the only conversation with quarterback was for 32 at the lions so we just had with jeff and we asked him about it and jeff was like uh probably not they like your golf that's that is that's what that's what i like so much about doing this is we get to ask these guests what they think the team is going to do some thresholds some tendencies some everything but then ultimately that I want them to make a pick because I want them to

almost have something on the line I want them to make the pick that they think is best and sometimes you can sift through the well I don't like this player but I know he's going to go high kind of a thing and that's a different it's just a different exercise in that way and lo and behold we had no quarterbacks off the board other than Malik willis now ben's kind of threw us a curveball and i don't think malik willis is going to the philadelphia eagles i don't think it's going to happen but i do think he's going somewhere i think he's either going to carolina i think he's going to pittsburgh i think pittsburgh's going to be very aggressive for him i think some other teams especially if he slides into the 20s which i don't think that happens either but other teams could

move up want to get aggressive for him atlanta shoot man we're not talking about that enough elena could draft malik willis at eight or trade down and maybe think that they could get him there i think he's going certainly but i feel like how quarterbacks went in this draft were absolutely fascinating i think so too it goes it it was a true test of human nature of the fact that nobody wants to put their name behind one. Nobody. Right. Nobody. And while I know naturally we fans, people, hold NFL teams making selections to a higher standard

or in a different light or a different expertise which is can be hit or miss the fact is if all of these fine humans on the show besides ben would not put their name behind a quarterback how are teams feeling that have to go do it and address massive amounts of people on a billion-dollar organization. And I will clarify, I do think Kenny Pickett and Malik Willis are going in the first round. I think so, too. I think we're getting those two. But it goes to show you, this was a perfect test. We had 32 people make selections in this draft series.

And only one person would put their name behind a quarterback. Yep. Yep. Incredible incredible it's absolutely fascinating uh tyler linderbaum i think was another one that kind of stood out in the well i wasn't gonna say teens but he went 12 so technically not the teens but him going 12 to minnesota vikings i think that's a lot more true to where you and i might have him on a big board um then where he is gonna go in actuality which when we had a refund to pick for the vikings he kind of talked about that as well he talked about the positional value and he's like look i get it this probably won't be the pick on draft day but they need one and tyler linderbaum's good so he's like i'm picking the good player. And he went about it with a different kind of philosophy

where he said, this class doesn't have a lot of just really good players. Tyler Linderbaum is one of them. Draft a good player. The point of the draft is to draft really good players. Now, of course, you want to have more of a sound process. You don't want to take too many exceptions, if you will. But sometimes it is just drafting about the good football player. And so I was happy to see Tyler Linderbaum not slide way down if you will but sometimes it is just drafted about the good football player and so i i i was

happy to see tyler linderbaum not uh slide way down or even not even get in here at all it's fascinating to me i have linderbaum fifth overall in this draft oh damn nice and i don't know if in my lifetime again when i'm gonna have a guy in the top five that i if you asked me you know a or b he goes in the first round or doesn't and my answer if I had to give one is he doesn't it's crazy like it's crazy I don't I don't think he goes in the first round now I it only takes one team I think him being scheme specific is an issue I think his position is an issue and I look at him and man, he's a top five player in this draft for me. And I still don't think it's going to happen. So I was glad Arif did that because, once again, this is your selection.

This is you putting your name on a player. It makes sense for Minnesota. I would be shocked. But he goes back to the Stingley argument. Can you be a superstar at your position? Can you be a top three player at your position in the league? Stingley fit that mold. Tyler Linderbaum fits that mold.

There are just not a lot of guys in this class that fit that mold. Before we talk about some players that didn't go in the draft before we get out of here, Brees Hall went 25. Joe Buscaglia. I can't say the G. It's Buscaglia. Yeah, the G is silent, like lasagna. He pickedably. Yeah. I can't, I can't say the G it's. Yeah. The G is silent.

Like lasagna. He picked Reese hall. And the over under right now on running backs in the first round. Is 0.5. Do you think that. Do you think there will be one or do you not? And. After listening to Joe.

I think it's going to be on the table for the bills man i think they're gonna strongly consider it man i think i'm the only human on planet earth especially at pff i'm definitely the only person at pff that will not kill this pick if it happens and he he laid it out really well he laid it out really well he did it's a pick that has been in our mock draft mondays in the spring and the bills have done i always put it like this trevor and i've said this to you about kyle hamilton and the jets bad teams you know a lot of times positions non-premium positions are a luxury they can't afford no matter how good the player is sure right it's like you know it's like that that meme of the ferrari parked in like the broken down house like it just it's literally what

it is well people people actually posted that meme about christian mccaffrey and about saquon barkley and about like those guys so it's true that's not the bills the bills are sitting on a mansion so right that's yeah you can do this and here's the biggest thing it really will give josh allen the longevity that he needs josh allen is one of the most fascinating runners in the nfl his running style his body type his uh long strides and build up speed but it can't happen as much as it's happened in the regular season. Playoffs run them like crazy. Don't care. They need a game-changing running back like this, and you're not picking in the top 20. I love Brees Hall. I mean, and this is probably why, once again, I'm not loving this pick, but I'm not killing it like everybody is going to do if it

happens. Brees Hall, for me, is my 30th ranked player in this draft so the value is like just not insane he's a great athlete close he's he's a team captain he fits everything they want there i don't see why breese hall can't come in to the bills and not on this level but not insanely far off but be what jonathan taylor has done for the Colts the thing with the thing with the running back picking and you put it perfectly in most cases you're probably not going to like the value pick of a running back in the first round but for the Buffalo Bills this is a team in a winning window this is a team without a solidified identity or a go-to weapon in the running game oh yeah does breese hall get you over the top to compete in the afc and win you super bowl because if he does nobody cares worth

it nobody cares that's the part that's worth it positional value is really important draft process is really important because you want to stick to that as a base but there will be times where deviating from that a little bit makes sense for where your team is and i think the best gms recognize that so i agree with you completely a lot of teams a lot of situations in the nfl you should not touch running back in the first round it just does not make sense from a value standpoint the bills are one of those teams where it wouldn't be a quote-unquote waste i don't think it would be something that in fact would help them out so i i could definitely see this i i love the way that joe put it on that episode if you guys missed that you should

definitely go uh listen to it okay before we get out of here connor i want to list some players that did not get picked in this guest mock draft and i want you to tell me the player that you believe is most likely to go in the first round i like it okay did not get picked in the guest mock so we've got davante wyatt did not get picked bernard raymond sky moore nicobe dean tyler smith boy a mafe arnold ebikete quay walker roger mccreary trey mcbride travis jones jalen petrie all four of the quarterbacks leo chanel kyler gordon and jaquan brisker from that list who do you think is most likely to actually go in the first round that didn't make it in this mock kenny pickett's going in the first

round kenny pickett is going in the first round okay and so that's the one right there i'm gonna make you i'm gonna make you give another other than kenny pickett because i wouldn't be shocked if ritter does wouldn't be shocked if ritter does but would you say would you say he's got the next best odds to go in the first round out of this group yeah oh man you know who quietly on this list i think actually has the next best odds yes i think it's tyler smith i don't think the general public realizes how high the league and offensive line coaches are on Tyler Smith because it's different evaluating like a 24 year old Bernard Raymond or a 23 year old Trevor Penning coming out of the FCS versus a 20 year old Tyler Smith they look at him as this ball of clay

that can be something special that can play guard can play tackle long term I would actually say it's Tyler Smith. I think he's going to be around one pick. I think it's going to be Arnold Ibikedi. I like that one. I would put some heavy odds on him going at the back end of the first round. He's super explosive. He tested that.

He liked that. You see it on tape. And I think that speed rush, pass rush element, him or Boye, Mafe, whoever the league is highest on, I think it's going to be those two guys that are going to be competing for the back end of the first round davante white obviously extremely talented but there's some off the field things that john touched on when he was on with the buccaneers that i know teams are going to look into so that's kind of up in the 24 year old breakout yeah the age is there with him as well nikobi dean obviously

a really good football player but he's a linebacker. Does he go with the, does he go in the first round? I'm saying no, that a pass rusher probably has a better chance of that. Bernard Raymond, far worse offensive tackles have gone in the first round before. So that's certainly, yeah, he's got a good chance.

Yeah. I think that you could put him in that list as well, but those are a handful of, of Travis Jones because of that type of player only a certain amount of 300 he's gonna go i don't think he is either but he's got a chance like yeah sure he doesn't have a chance yeah i don't think so either uh mccreary doesn't have a chance like i would be shocked man i mean yeah i mean you're probably right i just like mccreary a lot okay i think he's good that's okay he's okay. I think he's good at his job. All right. So he's got short arms.

Let the guy live. Let him play. Let him play corner. He's going to be fine. Cover the best in the SEC. All right. That was fun, man. I really enjoyed that.

Huge, huge, huge shout out. Thank you. Everything to all the guests that we have had over the last month. This has been an absolute blast. We've had the pleasure of talking to some of the best in the business around the league covering the nfl it was great to reconnect with them great to connect with them sometimes for the first time yeah pick their brain a little bit to get to get to hear from them and honestly it's an awesome chance for us to be the listeners as well which is is really cool for us it's a great

change of pace hopefully you guys listening really enjoyed that as well. If you did, please let us know. Leave a review or tweet at us, do something. Because we'd also, we'd love to hear how you might have suggestions to make it better. Because I think this is going to be something that we do from year to year. And we always want it to be better every single year. And we've said it once, we'll say it a million times.

This is a podcast of the people. We always want to hear from you guys. We always want to hear from you guys. We always want to hear how you think that this podcast could be better. And sometimes we can implement those ideas. So make sure that you hit us up, but Connor, I appreciate you going on this journey with me,

my man, this was, this was a lot of fun. It's been a blast. A huge thanks to everybody. It really is cool to get that much different NFL media all on one show in the span of literally a month. It was insane. I know for us behind the scenes, this was insane.

Absolutely insane. But it was a fun experience. And I think we got a lot of really good conversations out of it that made it well worth it. Yep, I agree. And the guest mock draft being over, that means only one thing, guys. The boys are back, baby.

It is draft week. The boys are back. It is going to be draft week. Coming up next for you guys monday's episode the final mock draft monday although we might have another leading up to uh leading up to the day we'll see but you know it is draft week so it's just going to be as much madness as we are possibly going to cram in we're going to get to our final player rankings all that good stuff we'll see you guys on Monday. Bye.