NFL Stock Exchange: An NFL Draft Podcast - 66. Summer Scouting: Top 5 EDGE Rushers for 2023 NFL Draft

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

Hosts Trevor Sikkema and Connor Rogers continue their summer scouting journey with the edge rush group (OLBs and DEs). The two give you their preseason Top 5 edge players for the 2023 NFL Draft with background info, PFF stats and film notes for each. Plus talk plenty of other defensive linemen in the class who are just outside their Top 5s going into the season.

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It's awesome. Sign up now at youtube.com slash BS, device and content restrictions apply. Local and national games on YouTube TV. NFL Sunday ticket for out-of-market games excludes digital-only games. Welcome to the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. In this episode, we're getting right back to the summer scouting series, flipping over to the defensive side of the football. The offensive guys, they had their time. Now it's time for the defense and we're starting off with a bang. We're starting off with the edge rushers. It is a position that has the potential to produce a number one overall pick

in every single draft class. And let me tell you guys, there is absolutely one in this class. It might be a couple. There's a couple of guys who are draft eligible for the first time who could really make some noise, get themselves into the top 10, the top 20 litter the first round. As we know, edge rushers do. I'm Trevor Sycamore. With me as always is Connor Rogers. Let's ring the bell. Welcome to the opening bell of the NFL Stock Exchange podcast. I'm Trevor Sycamore.

That is Connor Rogers. Getting back to the scouting, summer scouting series. See Connor, I haven't said it in so long. Now I'm forgetting what the title of the series is actually called. Getting back to the summer scouting series. We're flipping over to the defensive side of the football. Finished up offense. Now we're with the edge rushers.

So this was an exciting group. Obviously, it's a position that has the positional value to potentially go number one overall in a draft class, depending on how strong it is. Connor, I think we're going to agree there is at least one candidate that could potentially be that kind of a player. But excited, man. Flipping over to the defensive side of the ball.

How are you feeling today as we start this podcast? I'm excited, man. This is kind of similar. This is the defense's version of the ball. How are you feeling today as we start this podcast? I'm excited, man. This is kind of similar. This is the defense's version of the running back show, right? With the running back show, there was obviously a stud at the top and Bijan Robinson that I think everybody was prepared for us to talk about in that kind of ranking. And then what you do with two through five in a group of, you know,

10 that could be in that conversation is where it gets interesting. And I think that's going to be the case on today's show with the edge rushers. I'm sure for us, our two through five could be very different. Um, you and I talked before the show, it sounded like we watched almost all the same kind of players for this one, which is a bit of a rare case. And, uh, it's, it's going to be fun because I think with the edge pass rush group, I always say on the show and all the shows that I do, uh uh and guys in the NFL will tell you this pass rushing is a skill that really develops maybe the latest out of all the positions a lot of breakout pass rushers are 25 26 and on this for us our trajectory we're doing it with guys that are 18 and 19 years old so this is maybe the most

projecting besides quarterback that we have to do in our uh you know field of work this actually i want to chat about this you saying that actually kind of brought this to my mind and i had a question i wanted to ask you before we dive into it so are you are you big into like the age metrics with scouting where it's like hey essentially what i'm talking about is do you put a ton of stock into a guy playing really well at a young age because going off of what you just said there if this is a position that you traditionally think guys don't blossom until really they are upperclassmen anyways junior seniors if you see a guy who is an underclassman as a freshman or a soft sophomore play really well

as an edge player do you think that means more for edge rushers than anything else? Or what do you think about age metric stuff anyways? Everything has context, right? And I think age is one of those ones that has lost all context on a lot of the Twitter discourse I see. But I think it matters a ton. I obviously use age a lot in my scouting metrics. I think breakout matters.

I think that pass rushing, it's a great point you bring up, Trev, that for pass rushing, I do think it matters a lot. I think there is something to take away. I don't think you kill a guy for necessarily being a late breakout, depending how he got there. Look at Jermaine Johnson last year. Perfect example. A lot of people were like, oh, you know, he's older. Why did he take the breakout? Jermaine had a different road and we've gone over that road for a long time. But on the flip side, when you look at it like somebody, Nick Bosa and Chase Young, they were both true impact sophomores in a way that was unbelievable, to be honest with you. And I think of evaluating pass rushers and getting excited about seeing the jump they make as a junior. Chase Young and Nick Bosa were so far along in that route that you knew

where they were already at was a first round player maybe a top 15 player and then what they were able to do in that following year cemented them as guys that were worthy of being the number one overall selection in each of their drafts so i do think it matters obviously there's a guy today that we're going to talk about in will anderson that a lot of people and i don't want to spoil what we think but a lot of people probably view him in that light like nick bosa like chase young like miles garrett that has dominated at such a young age at a high level against top competition that he is kind of the next in line of those people yeah the reason why i wanted to ask is because there are a couple

outside of just Will Anderson, who I know a lot of people know, there are a couple of players who are first time eligible guys this year that are coming off really nice seasons or high recruiting profiles or whatever it is. And so, you know, I just, I wondered what your take was there

because I know that everybody's a little bit different with breakout age and how much they weigh it. But yeah, I mean, certainly if you are physically dominant, especially in a major conference in college football, if you can hold your own, let alone stand out when you are a freshman or a sophomore, especially in the trenches, that does mean a lot.

That doesn't mean a lot. You brought up Nick Bosa. And you talked about his sophomore season. I feel like Nick Bosa played incredible his freshmen. He did, which was just was just not, I mean. In like a rotational role. Nick Bosa was the easiest scouting profile of all time. Of all time. Like, you just went, okay, top three player in the class at minimum.

That's it. Like, you already, you didn't even, we didn't even need to see his junior year, really. I feel like to have been able to project that. I thought he was far and away the best player in that draft, and I think that, you know, obviously the results speak for themselves. But, yeah, you're right. If he is healthy, I think that his career is going to speak for that. Before we dive into it, and as you guys know the format by now,

what Connor and I will do is we will go from five to one. We'll count down our top five edge rushers as we watched. I got through nine of these guys it sounded like would you get through 10 do you get through 10 11 yeah 11 i think it was okay you had a couple more names than i did so we we narrowed it down to our top fives each and we'll go back and forth go from five to one and then we'll mention some honorable mention guys some guys that just missed the list guys that we're intrigued with but before we get to that gotta read everybody's favorite ad copy it's our friends over at manscaped gentlemen

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understand trev because he did not get to play uh very much last year he had 55 pass rush snaps and that's because for tupuola fatui he had a non-contact Achilles tear in spring where he did not come back until around the end of October and they obviously managed his reps because coming off the injury a star player he had a monster 2020 uh he graded out tremendously in his pass rush reps and that 2020 film is is real i mean you're looking at a pressure percentage of 22 so when this guy was on the field and rushing the passer he was winning in the pack 12 over and over again so 2021 obviously the sample size was smaller i think he showed though that he's still uh you know could could be a dominant force. He's somebody that I think is a power rusher or played like a power rusher these last two years when he was on the field. It looked like he was around 275. I know they've come out

and said as a program, they think he's going to play at 255 pounds this year. In the spring, he's been around 250 pounds. So he is playing lighter. I think he's going to play faster. But it's simple for me here, Trevor. He just has hands that people in this class don't have. They are strong, powerful hands. His ability to convert speed to power, his ability to shoot gaps, win on the outside with that hand usage.

It's really impressive. And he's somebody that always capitalizes on the true, let me pin my ears back and go kind of reps. And when you watch that tape of him, he wins, he beats tackles. And I think it's really going to all click for him this year. I think he's somebody that, you know, 2020 was the COVID season. We know what that did to the pack. So he did not have a lot of games, but he had tremendous production. 2021, obviously coming off the Achilles, the non-contact tear,

they had to ease him back in so the stats don't look as pretty as maybe a guy that played a 10 game season but i think this year it's all going to come together for him the talent's all there he's already produced on the field he just needs rep after rep after rep and i can't wait to see him go full throttle do you ever have reservations about about pac-12 players in the trenches because because i do like naturally i just do and and you don't want to you don't want that to overpower what you're watching right if you watch a player be physically imposing in the pac-12 knowing that you think okay this guy's skill set his physical physicality, his traits, his body, his frame, everything. All of that can clearly stand up against any conference in the country.

But there are a handful of times where I will watch Pac-12 players and I feel like, okay, you're going up against lighter offensive tackles because that's normally what the brand is in that conference. And I see you winning, but I don't see you dominating nearly as much as you maybe

should do you see any of that with Zion do you have any of those reservations about him playing in the Pac-12 or were you kind of good with those no I think it's both I think that he does dominate when he's on the field and I think it's against bad players and I think for me the fortunate answer to this question is that he is a fifth year player, even though he's junior class right now, he could have a sixth year if he wants. He's a fifth year player. I think we're going to see him at the senior bowl or the shrine game. And I think that is going to open the door for him in a way that we've seen other pass rushers get to go up against top tier talent. So if he goes through this season and it has the green light for a full workload

and dominates the way I think he will, and I think he's going to beat up on some really bad competition, I truly do believe that. It's going to come with that little asterisk next to it. Then I think we're fortunate enough we're going to see him in the all-star circuit. And much like we saw with many pass rushers in the past, but notably I think of Jermaine Johnson every time, it might ultimately dictate where he goes by about a difference of 40 plus or negative spots yeah no it makes sense it makes sense and those all-star circuits whether it's the the east west shrine bowl whether it's a senior bowl whatever it is it's a great opportunity to get

to go against some different competition i think you and i spoke about that back in january when we were covering those events here on this podcast and that's what we like to see the most so um you know if we end up getting zion there i i know i'll get plenty more eyes on him before then but that's certainly something that i think about we'll take you about an hour because there's not a ton of reps to watch so that's a good thing you don't have to carve out much time this is speed scouting at this point in the year when i'm trying to watch as many guys as possible, I mean, I'll welcome that. I'll welcome that plenty. Okay.

Shout out to Ultimate, as always. Yeah, big shout out to PFF Ultimate, for sure. So one of those players that I'm talking about being a first-time eligible player, at least I believe this is the case, my number five guy, it's Felix Anudike Uzoma, the pass rusher from Kansas State. Do you have him in your top five?

No, I'm really glad you do because he was a firm number six for me. And I was like, man, this kind of stinks that I'm not going to talk about him, but I have a feeling that he'll make it into Trevor. So this is perfect. Yep, yep. I had him at number five. Almost had him at number four. So I'll obviously talk about who I put over him.

But Anudike Izuma, okay? Great name, Felix. Yes, fantastic name. We always love the hyphens for pass rushers as well, really any defensive player. We each did a hyphenated pass rusher for number five. You'd love to see it. Didn't even think about that, but you do love to see it. Six foot four, 255 pounds.

And that 255 pounds is very interesting because a little bit of background on him three star edge player from Kansas City Missouri he was 220 pounds he's about as heavy as what you would think a running back would be when he was in high school so he was an edge player playing at 220 and he didn't get a lot of offers because of it only scholarship offers came from Kansas State obviously where he ended up as well as Tulsa and Northern Iowa. In fact, not only was the weight an issue in high school, so was the production. I read, and this was a quote from him, so it wasn't anybody skimping him on it. He said, pretty sure I only had like five sacks my entire high school career. His entire high school career.

We're not even talking about like a final season or a junior and senior year this guy's talking about he only got to the quarterback five times throughout his high school career and he was sitting there weighing 220 going into the recruiting cycle so obviously that was something that was a reason why he was held back a little bit he has gained 35 pounds since then and dude i mean when you watch him play it's a dense 35 pounds like he plays it when i looked at the background of this and then i went to watch him play i was like this is not a light player who they just tried to throw weight on this guy got in a college strength program and got strong like he bigger, he got denser,

he holds up on the line of scrimmage. And now he is a player that you have to allocate multiple resources. One of the games I watch is that Oklahoma game. I watched Kansas State versus Oklahoma. And there were times during the first half where he was just wreaking havoc on either the left tackle or the right tackle from both sides of the line of scrimmage.

And then the second half in the game, I remember there was a specific play that I almost screenshotted and sent you, but I didn't know if it was going to be too out of context and we're going to get it. But Oklahoma had three players, the left tackle, the left guard and the tight end just boxing him in. And they were basically like anyone else on this Kansas state defensive line is going to beat us, but it is not going to be you for the rest of the game so he had i mean look he had an incredible year last season uh this is straight from kansas state they said he enters 2020 uh ranked second nationally enforced fumbles per game which you can see with the strength profile six last year third in sacks per game almost uh almost three-fourths of a sack per game is three forced

fumbles shy of tying the school's record which is insane because he barely played the year before so this is all basically coming from one year of production he's also six and a half sacks away from entering k state's career top 10 list i believe he had 11 sacks last year, 14 tackles for loss. When I wrote down the strengths and weaknesses for him is what I had. Vice grips for hands. So there are times when he loses balance, gets a bit thrown off by the offensive lineman. Like they'll be, they'll be doing a little battle. They'll both have their arms out.

The offensive lineman will win, whether it's with a step or leverage or something, you just see him get off balance. But when the offensive lineman goes to throw him aside he ain't letting go and if he's going to the ground the offensive tackle is coming with him so just incredible forearm strength incredible hand strength that's what you'd love to see from an edge rusher um got an incredibly relentless motor no matter what they're asking him to do they'll ask him to go around the edge the last one to come inside they'll ask him to go around the edge. They'll ask him to come inside.

They'll ask him to do all sorts of stunts and games going back towards the middle. Loves the club rip move or the dip rip move. Absolutely, as a bigger guy, you know, you figure you're trying to forklift the offensive tackles outside or inside arm when you're trying to get by him because he's not as fast, right? He's not blowing by with as much ease.

He knows that the contact's going to come. So you want to, and he does this often. He'll get a little stab in there. He'll hit you to the chest, and then he'll rip that arm straight through, and he'll get right up under the armpit of the offensive tackle. And that's something that he really loves to do, very comfortable with, very powerful when he does it.

The lateral and vertical explosiveness, I think, really, really stand out. He is clearly, because of his build and his style, more of a 4-3 defensive end than a guy that's going to be an outside linebacker, edge bender kind of a player. The weakness, I just mentioned it there, doesn't have the best bend in the class. But I think it's okay. Certainly with how comfortable he is getting up, under, and around the outside arm of the offensive tackle, it's okay. He can get away with it. I think he loses balance a little bit too often,

which was a little bit weird. Maybe it was just the games that I happened to watch, but I had that on note. Needs to anticipate a little bit better because as much as I said that he's got good lateral explosiveness, there are times when it's either an RPO or a fake one way or the other. They're using play action one way. It's just some sort of misdirection.

And he just, he does not anticipate as much as he should. He almost kind of like stops in his tracks. He's like, okay, where is the ball going? A little bit more anticipation there will make him less susceptible to those misdirections and those play action kind of plays. And so I think that all of that really just more reps for him. As I mentioned, I think that the first couple of years

was about getting weight, getting strength, understanding the strength level that he had, learning how to use that to his advantage. You saw a lot of the fruits of that labor last season. But this is a big, powerful 4-3 defensive end guy, but a player with a relentless motor and really strong hands, a power profile that I think the NFL is really going to like. Yeah, he was right on the edge there for me i liked the upside obviously more of um

tupola fatui but i i obviously the sample size of what felix did last year was you know drastically he just he played a lot more and had insane production he was healthy and i think for me what i liked is that he had that ajabo stutter step that really set up tackles and kind of got them stuck in the mud where it's yeah i always compare it to a point guard or a shooting guard isolating you know against a defender and when he gets those isolation reps against tackles he can use that stutter and the tackles often freeze and then he gets the second move going and that was how he he won a of reps. And you know the only negative note I wrote on him was that his numbers are impressive right. The six force fumbles that's a playmaker. That means you're

growing up for the ball you're doing something right. The 11 sacks it's a little inflated a lot of coverage sacks and a lot of quarterbacks just doing dumb things in that conference, basically scrambling up into the gap. I mean, he was productive not just with sacks. He was productive with hurries, forcing pressure, like you said, disrupting plays. So a really good year for him and one of those guys that can easily be one of the top five edges taken in this draft. All right. Number four for me is another kind of interesting player that has that injury path but big-time flashes,

and that's Darrell Inchami from Maryland. And he's somebody that, you know, we'll start with those injuries to really paint the full picture here. He tore his ACL in 2019, and he had season-ending upper body surgery in 2021. I don't think it's public knowledge of what that exact injury was. But when you watch the reps that he's been able to put out on the field already, he's a redshirt senior, 6'4", 260.

So he's another guy that'll have that all-star circuit chance if he has a big time season. The talent here, Trevor, is just so legit. I mean, a stand-up rusher with power in his hands. Maybe, I watched 11 guys, maybe the best shoulder dip slash that ankle flexion in the class i really mean that you love i really mean that and that to me was this guy can do it and he wins this way he just he needs to stay healthy and he's had some

real bad luck in that route there's a difference between always being banked up and running into some bad luck and honestly in the nfl it's tough to deal with either i'm not going to pretend that just because you've had some bad luck it doesn't hurt your prospect profile but with the torn acl behind him and the 2021 season injury in in ending season ending injury behind him i hope that this guy explodes this year because the tape was just, the way he wins is so translatable. That was the most important thing to me

is that when you can convert speed to power, you have powerful hands, but you also can win on the outside by dipping that shoulder and flattening into the pocket. That's a skill set that I didn't see with a lot of these guys, to be honest with you. I didn't see i know you said it you know when you kick things off with number five uh within a dk uzama is that you know it's it's when you're not the bendiest you got to find other ways to win and that doesn't mean you can't succeed but when you can bend like

that and do the other things it's very hard for a tackle to shut you down what you know rep in and rep out for an entire game so i think within chami like there is just there is something there nfl body nfl skill set and the awful annoying volatility of just staying healthy. Because, yeah, and I'll pull up his numbers as well before we close the book on him, but he was just somebody that if people listening to the show are diving into this class and you don't have him on your list

because obviously he's just missed a lot of time throughout his career, he's someone to me that just kind of like Zion makes the most of those reps and i think that's going to go a long way for him this season i didn't watch him either and i think it was because of the lack of reps there that he wasn't really on my radar so this is another player who i've got to be able to get eyes on because this is uh this sounds like it's a high potential guy yeah 19.4 percent was his pressure percentage which is good that's a big time number and he you know once again he only had the 93 pass rush reps last year but uh he was getting home a lot and he

was getting home in a way that it works where you a lot of these guys we watched were you know beating up on some bad play or or just getting coverage sacks so i was i was really impressed with the toolbox okay all right i love it love to hear it we're giving you guys a variety of different players today of the guys that we happen to not watch connor seems to really like those guys and i means i gotta get eyes on them do you have uh isaiah foskey in your top five? I don't. He didn't make the cut. Okay. I have him at number four. Nice.

We have got four totally different players here at numbers five and four. It's really the running back situation all over again. It kind of is the running back position. Because who did I have? I had Blake Corum that I watched that you didn't. Didn't watch him. And then I think there was one other one that we were talking about.

You had Sean Tucker at two. I think I had him at four or five. Like, there was just good balance, good difference of opinion. Sean Tucker goat. All right, so Isaiah Foskey, the pass rusher for Notre Dame senior, could have come out last year, and I really think that he could have been a top 50 pick last year. Like, I think that this dude could have been an early second-round pick.

I think that he wanted to come back back put another year of production out there getting a little bit better even maybe doing the all-star circuit helping himself campaign for himself a little bit more to see if he could be a first round pick notre dame's got him listed at six foot five 260 pounds i don't know if he's 260 i don't know if he's i think he's closer to 250 but hey you do i i guess he plays like he's 260 i mean he i just i that's purely visual i don't even say that because of how he plays because his his run defense grade was really great at pff and i thought he was great with the hands i thought he was oh he's strong very technically sound and how he approached that so when i say that i think he's a little bit lighter. It's literally just visual.

It's not me saying he's getting blown off the ball. He needs to get stronger. I wonder if he's said he's weak. Yeah. Yeah. Wait up, son. I definitely,

I just said I can add Foskey. I can bench more than Isaiah Foskey. No, absolutely not. Please do not clip that and send it to him. Everybody clip and send it to him. So six of five, two 60, maybe he is a full two 60 don't know four star player but he was a tight end recruit as much as he was an edge rusher

and i would actually probably say from what i learned about his recruiting track he was recruited more as a tight end than as an edge rusher but ended up going to notre dame because they wanted him to go to be a defensive end uh he obviously accepted that wanted that to be where he played he wanted to play on the defensive side of the ball long arm so we got the six foot five frame I'm definitely not doubting the six foot five frame because I think he's got the long arms and he consistently shows that uh bigger frame used and I say that I I have this in my notes the longer arms are used as a choice of weapon in combat that is that's how he understands the strength of what his length and leverage can do um understands the power of separation getting that separation those extended arms from the

offensive tackles and the leverage and he uses him i think consistently he's got good strength at the point of attack i mentioned for run defense that was something that i really liked on his tape I feel like he's not the player he's not a specialist player I think you keep him on the field for all three downs and he can attack both shoulders with pretty good effectiveness I watched a handful of games of his and you know whether he was making a move inside or whether he was attacking the outside I felt like he was very comfortable doing both and understood what it took to win both right i mean if he's crossing the face he's got to get that foot in the ground right off the bat and he's got to get immediately over to the other shoulder the offensive tackle as if not to

get caught in between the arms in between the shoulders and allow him to kind of get his hands on him bear hug him a little bit there he understands that that explosiveness laterally is what's most important and then uh you know he can understand that when he's going to the outside the second step getting up the arc getting past and even with the outside shoulder before he really extends that arm and puts the offensive tackle in an awkward situation i felt like he approached pass rushing with a really good head on his shoulders if you will and you saw that in the production that he gave us last year weaknesses two-point stance rusher he's very comfortable in that role i don't think that you're going to be able to get flexible with him even though he's got

the and this is kind of goes back to the weight even though he has 260 on the weight sheet and people might be like hmm yeah you can probably teach him to be a three-point guy get the hand in the dirt get a little bit lower maybe you could but he he feels most comfortable from that squatted two-point stance that he really likes to be in you just see that comfort so i wouldn't change that i think he's more of a outside linebacker type despite maybe getting those weight numbers up a little bit more um only real point of emphasis for me and this is why i got him at number four i just wanted to get more experience understand more pass rush moves because i think he's got

the ability to do it all. Now, that's not to say his game is perfect. Could he get a little bit faster? Could he get a little bit stronger? Maybe those things are there, certainly. But, you know, he's got great height. He's got a great frame. He's got the long arms.

He fills out the frame really well. It's not like I need this guy to lose weight or gain weight, or I wish he was faster, wish he was stronger. I really don't. He brings a very even all-around profile to edge play, not just pass rush play. I think he is a complete player. And when you get him more experienced with trying out different pass rush moves, different counters, how to push-pull with a little bit more consistently

and regularity, adding a spin move in there, using a swim a little bit more than he does outside of just long arm moves, stabs, clubs, rips, all that stuff. I think that you can get yourself a really, really good player and one that would be a good back of the first round

dependable edge guy to, to put on your roster. So I liked it. I liked him a lot. I thought he has a higher NFL floor than the guys I ranked four and five. Yeah, there you go. That's a really good way to say it. Yeah, that's the beauty of these shows and why they are so different

than the shows we will do in, let's say, what, January? Yeah. Or start in January. Yeah, we'll probably take a look back at this at one which begins June. Yeah, these are, you could throw a couple play action bombs on these and say you know what i think this guy has all the tools let's watch him explode this year and you're gonna hit on some you're gonna miss on some for me with foskey i just thought he was somebody

where i i agree with you he could have declared last year and he's an nfl player with what he already does well he is so stout in the trenches. He is very smart. He understands how to contain. He plays with good effort and strength. Now, can he grow this year? Sure. We just went on this whole rant about how pass rushers break out late sometimes and continue to grow, but definitely somebody that I think when all is said and done is a really good chance to be in the top five because the reality is not all these projectable players are going to take that giant leap forward so you and i had different number fives different number four so we've already introduced four edge rushers on the show oh you'll love to see it you love to

see it number three for me i wonder if we're gonna have the the same exact top i think we did i think we will i don't know if it'll be the same order but it all depends on who you have at number three andre carter from army we're gonna we're'll be the same order, but I think Vua. It all depends on who you have at number three. Andre Carter from Army. We're going to have the same top three. Okay, well, let's just do a little back and forth then. There's nothing wrong with that. That's not a bad thing. That's not a bad thing.

We're pretty solidified right now with how good these guys are, so I'm excited to talk about this. So this was a guy, and now I would say – Now here's a guy. Here's a guy. Now you're officially a PFF-er right there with the now here's a guy. Now you're officially a PFFer right there with the now here's a guy. And that was natural. That wasn't even on purpose.

Okay, so I always say on this show, and I'm being serious, that I don't have a college football team. By default, it would be Army because the closest school to where I grew up was West Point. Nice. Now, I don't live near there anymore but you know once when army's on i watch i watch a lot of college football but i like to watch army you could not miss andre carter in the year 2021 quite literally this dude is six foot seven he's 265 pounds they stand him up

a lot so you're talking about a dude how many almost exclusively i i literally wrote as big of a stand up rusher you will ever see former two-star very little recruiting hype uh very unique path obviously crazy crazy late bloomer man this guy right here just his length is outstanding and he knows how to use it to win it's's cool if you're 6'7". It's cooler if you're 6'7", and you know how to use a swim move, or you know how to keep tackle's arms off of you, and you know how to shoot through the gap and use that length. So that was the thing that stood out to me right away,

is that, okay, he's 6'7", he's putting up monster production, he's playing as a stand-up guy. Can he win with those God-given tools? And he can. I think he plays with his hair on fire. He covers a ton of ground. He's got these gazelle strides. He covers so much ground with those strides.

He plays with his hair on fire. He attacks in the backfield. They let him attack in the backfield. A lot of the sacks are on pure speed to power. I know I said he can win with his length, but he also, because he's a stand-up rusher that gets the rush from wide alignments a decent amount, he can just...

You could just say it. There are... It's fun to watch. If anybody out there gets their hands on all 22 Liberty film of Army versus Liberty... Oh, my God. If you watch the liberty game specifically it's the first one i watched the the the camera view for the end zone angle is in tight

a little bit it's tighter than it normally is for an all 22 angle and carter's not even on the screen to start the play like before the snap you just see him i just pulled it up again screaming in from off this off the camera shot yes that's exactly it it's like watching somebody be like a human slingshot into the screen yep so with all that being said the tools the production is outstanding the effort he plays with what he's turned himself into being a former two-star. It's all awesome. I do think there are holes in his game right now where I don't think, and maybe this is the product of the scheme, because I do think they really let this guy attack. There is a couple flaws against the run. There know there's not that containment mindset ever he

overshoots the run a decent amount he is so tall for a stand-up guy that i thought when blockers are able to get to their spot against him they they do know how to use leverage against him yeah because they can get their hand low man wins right so i think that there is things that need to be coached up with him uh army has over the years really transformed into an excellent program compared to you know i remember the days living close to the program and i'm remember the days is when literally you'd get the newspaper to your house and they would win like a game or two i I mean, they were horrific. Those days are past them. But Trevor, let's just call it what it is.

We're not going to get to see him coached up or playing in the SEC or the Big Ten or things like that. It's just the reality. You turn on the film and the production is awesome, but what game did you say? You went to Liberty. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So there's a lot of tools for this guy to work with. And there's a lot of reasons why you look at him and go, man, he could be a Carlos Dunlap. Like, that's what I think of when I watch him play that rare six foot seven height in the ways he can win. Yep. But there's just some very basic

things in his game, specifically against the run that need to be coached up where I think he's in a different tier than the next two guys. I'm going to talk about a pretty, pretty drastic tier. So, so army has not had a player draft in the first round since 1947.

I didn't know this. This dude is going to buck that trend. Yeah. Many rounds. I think he has to write just like physical traits alone. I feel like we've seen the NFL bet so so much on dude less third rounder on on pass rush traits alone yeah yeah so so just to expand upon kind of what you said there two-star recruit you're right he was a two-star outside linebacker recruit but he was a at one point he was a four-star tight end recruit

i did not know that there was not there was not like a ton of interest for him uh you mentioned he kind of bounced around a little bit uh i believe he was he's from well he he it's listed on his recruiting site that he's from missouri city texas but he actually started playing high school football in Temecula, California, moved to Missouri City, Texas during his high school year, played at Ridgepoint High. Oh, no, no, no. He wasn't a four-star tight end, but he was playing behind a four-star tight end. So he was also playing tight end.

I read that wrong. He was also playing tight end at the time, but he was not really getting a lot of attention as a tight end because he was playing behind a stud ends up going to, I think it's Cheshire. And he's how you say this Academy in Connecticut. Okay. Head coach there,

let him play both tight end and defensive end. Cause he wanted to try his hand at that. And obviously that's a good, that's a good program. As far as if I'm thinking of the right program, either way, defensive end, obviously got him where he wanted to go,

gets an army. I have a lot of the same strengths and weaknesses that you do. Relentless worker, the arms, the hands, the legs, they're churning at all times. I mean, he is making life absolute hell for all offensive linemen that are in front of him. Long arms, huge advantage against most offensive tackles just because he has that frame.

Especially the ones he sees. Right, right. It's like you know man against boys and it's funny for as wide as they put him in what is like you know you listen to coaches and you talk about alignments and you go okay wide nine's the furthest alignment well this is like sometimes they'll put him in like a wide 11 which doesn't exist i don't think i don't think anybody calls it that but it's just like it's the user imagination they are putting him like two steps even further sometimes and the reason corner right basing as a slot corner it's slot blitz that's what it is he's a slot edge yeah he's a he's blitzing off the new draft position here's

my top five slot edges for the 2023 slot edges uh yeah so the reason why you would put a guy out that far is because if you think about it logically, think about where the quarterback is at the snap. Let's say that they're under center. When they hike the ball, let's say that they're dropping anywhere from three to five steps back. If you are in a five technique alignment right in front of the offensive tackle or that's right on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle or the thing is that's right on the outside shoulder of the offensive tackle in order for you to get from your point to the quarterbacks you've got to get past even with past the offensive tackles outside shoulder bend around

very quickly to then meet the quarterback at the bottom of their drop step when they're when they're completing the five or the three step drop if the further away you get from the offensive tackle meaning like if there's this if you're in like a a seven alignment which is kind of what you would think if there's a tight end attached to the line of scrimmage the positioning there or a wide nine which is even further than that off the tight end it requires you to have less bend and you are more just running in a straight line to meet the quarterback at the bottom of their drop step the slingshot right so you are you are like just sprinting in a straight line trying to beat the offensive tackle to the spot as he is kick sliding to try to beat you there so carter benefits a lot

because they put him in this position and he is allowed to just be explosive and he doesn't have to be as bendy now i will say there are a handful of times when i watched a couple of clips wisconsin game the Liberty game, especially where I go, okay, that's more Ben than I thought you were going to have my guy. Like you, like he, it's when the offensive tackle

would meet him at that spot. And yet he could still rip those long arms under the arms of the offensive tackle. And he could hit the corner and turn around and get some disruption in the backfield. That's how you get those 14 and a half sacks that he had. So the alignment, you have to think about that when you are weighing what he can do versus what he can't do.

Where they place him allows for his strengths to shine the most. But I don't think, outside of losing the natural leverage battle, which he is always going to do at 6'7", I really didn't think it was that drastic, the lack of bend that you would think that you would see from a 6'7 player. So that's why I ended up having him number three here. When I was going through this list initially, when I went through my first round of watching tape,

I think I had Carter at five. i think i had carter at five i think i had him right around five because i was focusing on how they were playing him to mask those weaknesses how wide they were playing how they were allowing him to just sprint in a straight line but then the more i watched i was like you know what a lot of people like this guy i'm going to turn on a couple more games and i did and i was looking at it at a different angle and there are times even when he is aligned at a five technique where he will be either trying to hit an inside move or just shooting a gap to the inside in between the tackle and the guard and that lateral explosiveness to hit that gap is there and I go dang he's not as limited flexibility wise and I guess I'll say like laterally moving as

I thought he was going to be so that's kind of a i i'm trying to build off of what you said because you put a great baseline together of what he is as a prospect but just to give people a note you're gonna see him in an interesting kind of a unique position as a pure two-point stance very wide rusher understand how that helps him but also when there are those instances where you see him a little bit closer to the line scrimmage, closer to the tackles, maybe kicking inside sometimes on long third down distances, watch how his skill set still shines. It's not like he can't play if he's that far outside the trenches,

if they're lining him up that wide. He can still play, and play and he's damn good football player and that's why i had to bring him up to number three he's just i think physically very gifted in what he is doing yeah he's no gimmick like it's not a gimmick because he plays for army and and you know obviously fans of army should be rightly really excited about this player and it's he's legit it's not just a gimmick so you know it's funny when you said you wrote him down you know around number five and ended up really warming up to him i watched him i think third or fourth and i was like i don't think this guy is gonna make my top five and i think it spoke to how like you said i warmed up to him after watching everybody else and going back to him.

He is the same for me. I went back and watched more of him. And I was like, man, the tools are very impressive. Yep. And I have no problem betting on them in this exercise. And I thought he was just more physically impressive than a lot of the other guys that I stacked behind him. So number two i really i just wanted to say i i really did like the burst off the first step from a six foot seven six yes 65 player that he is i don't think that can be understated as well yeah he i mean let's just say this he was impressive

enough uh that i i'm gonna make an effort to go up to at least a game this year because he's somebody that you really want to see in person you want to be on the field before the game love it um games at west point are an incredible experience so it's um never been i gotta go yeah it's it's really underrated so all right now we get into i would say a little bit more fun number two man i guess the the guy i was the most impressed with based on hype versus expectations versus reality um i had watched a lot of entree carter last year i had seen you know plenty of a lot of the guys we talked about today and the guys will honorable mention after this i'll be the first to say i didn't realize how good miles mur is. I will raise my hand and say. It's because everybody was too busy talking shit on Clemson.

Like there were two people who were like, oh, Clemson's bad, Clemson's bad, Clemson's bad. And two players in the defensive line, Brian Brees and Miles Murphy, were like, hey, hey. Still here. Five stars. We're still here. So, man, I just.

Number one, you truly do have... I don't like being this guy, and I don't... I'm usually not. You do need the All-22 to appreciate how good of a player he is. And maybe that's a lot of it, right? Like, I watched a lot of broadcasts, Clemson, last year. And I'll be honest with you, obviously, leading up to this draft, like, you weren't, you know, just...

He's not a guy that you would have the opportunity to see a ton of and then you dive in exclusively on him like we're doing this summer it was awesome former five-star recruit uh shows a really nice push-pull move already and he knows how to turn the corner that and that's raw power it's the grip strength it's the ability you try to convert that speed to power and then pull the tackle. But what impressed me so much, a lot of guys that are so strong like him, and we're talking about a player here that is six foot five, 275 pounds playing on the edge. They like to use the push pull and kind of like Houdini, the guy low and under and just keep going straight, which yes, is an A to B direction to get there quickly.

This guy showed the ability to push, pull, and turn around him because the good tackles, you might be able to use the push pull against them, but they know how to, something we use on the show so often when discussing evaluation of tackles, they know how to recover so much with balance like Charles Cross could last year that if you you use the push-pull on them, you might only have a split second to do your next move, because they're going to be able to recover quickly enough. And this guy knows how to turn the corner off the push-pull, and that, it's jarring. Number one thing you have to know about him is he's asked so often to read, react, and contain. Like, he does not get the green light that all these other guys on the show get. He is asked so often to be responsible.

Think of the Patriots defense, right? Miami runs a similar defense and the rules that they have up front as well, where he is asked so often, snap the ball and hold the fort or see where the play is going, not pin my ears back and kill the quarterback. When he gets the chance to do

that man some special stuff i mean there's a long arm move that i clipped out for twitter that he put on the yukon left tackle where this this guy does not get tripped he does not lose his footing it's just a long arm and you're thrown into the ground and then he kills the quarterback he does he gets the two for one. So there's special power with this player. There is special IQ with this player. And I think he is another guy that his effort and hustle leads to a lot of plays.

Because when you have the kind of power he has matched with the nonstop effort and hustle, you are going to win eventually. That was something that I loved about Jermaine Johnson last year was that, yes, he didn't always win in two seconds off the snap, but when you have that kind of effort and hustle combined with your raw strength, you are going to find a way to win.

And Miles Murphy did a really good job of that as well. So I was blown away by this dude. I know all the hype is going to be about number one, and there's a reason for that, but Miles Murphy cemented in the first round for me right now and and what i saw he's on the path to be a top 10 to 15 pick next year this clip is gross nasty stuff he nasty stuff he makes it look like this does that that's the khalil mac like teach right right this is no this is this is a great is a great example of exactly what miles murphy can bring to the table which is a little plug for your twitter account if you're not following connor what are you doing

you need to do that what so what a co-host we look sorry i keep getting i'm gonna let you start with number one because like i keep getting to take the floor and then you get to like you know kind of piggyback like i talk it's only fair i talk enough i can talk circles enough five-star defensive end for marietta georgia number three overall player in the class by espn i mean you unanimous five-star guy and you could see that in his recruiting profile how big he was how imposing he was just getting on campus at clemson and then you mentioned it you know with him as just a sophomore last year what he was able to do you talked about how he really wasn't able to pin his ears back as much as you probably would like to see that's kind of the trayvon walker thing that we saw last year right now i don't

think it was as much like trayvon walker because I really do feel like... This guy's better. Well, as a pass rusher, you mean? Or just like overall? I think he's going to end up a better player. I mean... And we're talking about the number one pick from last year. I think this dude's going to be a better player. I wonder how many teams in the NFL would have picked Trayvon Walker at number one overall.

That's a great point because I think the list is really low. And it's not that Trayvon Walker's a bad player. No, Trayvon Walker's really good. But number one, it goes a great point because i think the list is really low and it's not that trevon walker's a bad player i can't say that but number one it goes back to yes the number the number one conversation well a little silly all right strengths and weaknesses for uh for miles murphy there wait you mentioned the height and weight six five two seven five yeah an app an absolute unit an absolute unit true unit beefy boy club incredible natural athlete at his size that is the first thing that i wrote in here and it took brother it took me four plays to write that down it took me like four plays to write that down how obvious it is that this guy is is as athletic as he is he's crazy he's nuts

you just know like you it's true a couple into watching him. You knew that he was different than all the other guys we talked about already. A couple of snaps. Very explosive out of his stance when he's pinning his ears back, when they allow him to do it. I do have that noted in there. Loves to hit the inside move. When they give him the green light to,

to shoot the gap between the tackle and the guard, he loves to do that. And he's very confident in doing so proves to be very effective in how powerful he is when they're asking him to do all sorts of stunts, games, whatever you want to call them, where he's moving, looping around somebody or taking a couple of offensive tackles. They'll let him do that as well. Very powerful player who had an elite run defense grade as a true freshman.

This dude stepped on campus in the ACC and had an elite run defense grade by PFF, which is super impressive. He wins with power consistently, and that's really where his game comes from right now. I'm curious if we're going to be able to see more from him at Clemson, knowing that new defensive coordinator, Brent Venables, is not there anymore. So there is a chance that he is not playing

that same sort of role that he was the year before. There's a chance that they could let him be more of a pass rusher consistently i'm excited to see whether or not that's going to be the case because you know look the weaknesses does not have elite bent right i mean like that's he is a bigger player he is six foot five 275 pounds i don't think it is glaring because i do think that he's got good explosiveness and flexibility but when you're watching him it he's a power player I mean like even what the clip that you posted one of the one of his best clips that we're going to see all year is him sticking his long arm out getting it straight into the chest the offensive tackle turning those legs and making it so the offensive tackles on skates is helpless and then on his butt that's a power move that's that is strength

in the arms that is strength in the legs that strengthen the core he's butt that's a power move that's that is strength in the arms that is strength in the legs that strengthen the core he's just he is a power player right now pass rush plan is more winning off initial burst if you ask me than it is to how to really attack any outside shoulder when he's getting around the edge but again i think that to echo you that comes with experience if he's playing a different role this year I think that he will hone in on more pass rush moves being able to show a lot more of those so I think that when you look at Miles Murphy to kind of wrap it up here with him if you are a 4-3 defensive end team if you want your two edge rushers to have their hands in the dirt at all times this is a perfect player for you this is a

player with all sorts of athleticism and size combination potential he's a top 20 pick no doubt about it for any team that is playing that structured front on their defense and um yeah he's just you mentioned it clemson did not get the hype that they were supposed to get last year because of it i think we got a negative connotation on all of the players on that roster and uh just should not have been the case with murphy because he he has a chance to be special yeah player cop popped into my head while watching him and i then i forgot to say it and then when you were going on about how awesome he is it popped back into my head cam jordan is who i saw in miles murphy dude i kind of thought of cam jordan almost immediately but i'm like i can't

compare anybody cam jordan's career is cam jordan's sure but you're just painting the picture of of what the player you're right the kind here like here's the thing about player comps and why they get misconstrued on on and i i'm the first one to say like this is ridiculous you're trying for this sake of this show it's summer scouting we are a year away from these guys being in the NFL at best. You're trying to paint the picture of what they can be or what role they can play for your defense. And that's why, you know, like if I said somebody that like 20% of the audience knows, it's bad content.

Wait, hold on here. Cam Jordan was 287 at the Combine? At the Combine? I know he plays at 285. I thought he came in a lot lighter. Does he play at 285? He does play at 285. Yeah.

That is one dense mother-effer. Miles Murphy can carry it. That's true. Cam Jordan is just one of the best defensive ends. So reliable. He's been fantastic. That is what you would love. I mean.

That's what you would love Miles Murphy to be. And he can be. He is in that mold. To your point, when you're saying player comps, you're kind of saying like, okay, he is of this mold of a player. You're right. Summer player comps. What do you want the player to be?

Versus when we come to the draft, this is what I think the player is. Right. Yeah. All right. I mean, Will um is reggie white in the summer scouting you know that's uh so let's go there will anderson obviously our number one pass rusher on the show yep uh we'll see you know when we stack the top 50 the stock exchange top 50 if he's the number one player i don't think a lot of people listening

are very surprised by this. I do find his background interesting to me, Trevor. He is not a former five-star recruit. He is a former four-star recruit and was a top 10 player in the state of Georgia. Not a top 10 player in his recruiting class. So the question is, how did we get here with Will Anderson? Why is this guy just completely over achieved in expectations for such a young player for the premier program or one of the premier programs of college football the last 20 years 6-4-2-43 probably going to jump out at a lot of people some people think that's light

i saw a frame that can easily carry 250 i saw hands that were so advanced for a guy this young that it doesn't even really make sense right because he's playing in the SEC so it's not like he's just beating up on you know pinballing some bad tackles I saw advanced hands powerful uh he knows how to work off blocks I thought his contact balance is excellent he's never the guy that's moving back and forth. It's always the offensive lineman, and he stands his ground moving forward. Which is impressive because he's what, 243? You know?

So his low, but I'll say this about the 243 weight. He has a lot of lower body power. Like you could see it in his legs that this guy is generating an absurd amount of lower body power. Yep. That, you know, it's funny to me how we kind of scoff as a scouting community at 243 for an edge. I think he carries some of the best weight in the entire, you know, obviously in the entire country. One of my notes that I have on him is for a player who is 245,

he plays with the strength of a player who is 260, 265. He does. I have it in my notes right there because he does. You're totally right. When this guy runs up to any offensive lineman, I'm not just talking about offensive tackles here. I'm talking about guards. He will push them back.

You talked about the strength that he has in his lower body, but also just understands leverage and the importance of it leverage so well he stays as low as he possibly can he gets the hands up he's moving in the correct direction he lifts up the offensive lineman to make sure they're more on their heels than anything else he gets them off balance and even guys who outweigh him by 60 plus pounds pounds, he is knocking them back a couple of steps. This dude rarely ever loses, and he plays with the strength of a guy who's almost got 20 more pounds on him,

which is quite literally perfect for a edge rusher. Because how many times do we watch guys and we go, hmm, he's 260. You like the strength, but he's just limited flexibility. We wish he was a little bit faster. We wish he moved a little bit better. Or you'll watch guys who are 240, 245, and you'll go, man, really can't have him on the field on every down.

Right, sure wish he was stronger. Will Anderson is a 245 player who moves at the speed of a good-ass 245 player, and he plays to the strength of a 260, 265 player. Nails it. Moves like he's 230, has the strength of a 260-pounder, weighs a 243. It's a fake number. What Will Anderson weighs does not matter. I cannot emphasize that enough.

It doesn't matter what he weighs today. It doesn't matter what he weighs at the combine. It doesn't matter what he weighs today. It doesn't matter what he weighs at the combine. It doesn't matter what he weighs when he gets to the NFL training camp because it's probably going to be right around 250 pounds, 245 pounds. Do not change what he is. If he's playing at 243, that's fine because this dude dominated 17.5 sacks as a true sophomore in 2021. At the time, I was very vocal that at a minimum,

he should have been invited to the Heisman Trophy ceremony. Yes. I thought he was deserving of first place votes. This guy, every single week is a force. He's a force every single week. He can turn the corner. He's got the violent hands. He's got excellent closing bursts.

He has that cherry on top skill that he knows how to win, but he's not winning and generating hurries. He's generating hurries. He's generating hurries that convert into quarterback hits and sacks. And that is a skill set. That is a skill set because it's closing burst speed based off of the excellent contact balance against the offensive line. So, I mean, I'm not saying anything that's news to anybody. We know how great Will Anderson is. But when you are trying to chalk up a 1.01 pick in an NFL draft, this is what it looks like. I'd agree.

I'd agree completely. We started this podcast saying that edge rushers have the positional value to be potential number one overall picks it. Look, we've got two really great quarterbacks in this class. I wonder how much the NFL is going to nitpick Bryce young because of his height and his overall stature, but CJ Stroud,

another fantastic year with him. He's going to be potentially a number one overall guy, but it just feels like if you want a can't miss player in this class, it feels like will Anderson is right here. There are, there are so, I have on his weaknesses because you highlighted a lot of the strengths that I would just echo a lot of those in different words, his weaknesses. The only weakness to me is time. That's it. And that's it. That is, that is not to say that this is a perfect player,

that he does everything perfectly right every play. That's not what I'm saying. But he gives you, we talked about the weight there, how he plays bigger and stronger than what he actually is, and yet he moves extremely fast. This dude, it's just a matter of getting reps, getting experience, and then just learning more about his craft because he has the tools to do whatever you

want he has the leg strength to be able to bull rush you straight into the quarterback's lap he has the bend and natural flexibility to be a player who can really separate from you dip under those shoulders and get an incredible von miller-esque looking sack on the quarterback right he can give you all of that and everything in between all of those other moves the spin move a swim move a club rip like a little like a ghost pass rush move where he's sticking his arm out of the offensive tackle getting him to swipe and then dipping under the arms I'm a sucker for that I absolutely love any time an edge rushing can pull that off all of that is within his toolbox all of that is within the realm of possibility for will anderson we put we saw him be damn near unblockable almost all of last year he won the sec defensive player of the year he won

the nagurski award for i believe that's the best edge rusher or his overall defensive line but i can't remember what he line yep but you said it best he should have been one of the one of the players at the heisman ceremony right he should have he absolutely should have he was the best he was one of the best players in the country arguably the best player in the country long as health is on his side I see another year that could be even better than the one that he had this past season and if a team that does not have an immediate need a quarterback is picking number one overall and they're not trading it back this dude is pretty close to as safe as you're gonna get in this class because of how elite he already is yeah it gives nothing against the run if you needed any more icing on the cake here i just he's he's a great player

um i'm really really happy that we have a Will Anderson in this class. It's something that I don't take for granted because let's be real. We didn't have someone like this last year. And there was a lot of, obviously right up until draft day, a lot of discourse, a lot of debate around the number one overall pick. I don't know. I think that it's so healthy that we have a player of this talent that at a minimum, it's so healthy that we have a player of this talent that at a minimum, it's a quarterback league.

It's funny that you said that we didn't have a player of this caliber last year and yet an edge rusher went number one overall and an edge rusher went number two overall. And this guy's way better. Way better. It's not close. If Will Anderson was in last year's draft class, he would have been the number one overall pick.

For every team. Every single team. he would have been the number one overall pick. Every, for every team, every single team, he would have been the number one overall pick. And he would be your betting favorite right now. As we sit here for defensive rookie of the year. We had three, we had three edge players go in the top five and we're out here saying that there was nobody like Will Anderson.

Now I feel like, I mean, you're right. You're, you're, you're not the next year thing where it's like, Oh, next year is always better. Like I promise you that is not the next year thing where it's like, oh, next year is always better.

No, he's awesome. I promise you that is not this. This guy is awesome. You know, I won't go as far to say I have expectations for him like I did maybe for, you know, the Chase Young expectations going into that junior year were off the charts. Yeah. But this guy is at least like, he's in the stratosphere. He deserves the praise that he's getting no doubt about it uh what's a handful of players that did not make your top

five that we can get to nolan smith is somebody from georgia that i want to shout out senior now former shoot let me make sure that i get this right here he was a five-star player yes he was number one player in the country 2019 what was it 2019 and i saw this too 20th best player of all time according to 247 recruiting they have they had him listed as a recruit of course he was the uh 20th best player of all time in their system the pro comp for him coming out of high school was kalil mac which is uh hilarious kalil mac weighs a little bit more than nolan smith does and i think that's probably what a lot of conversation is Nolan Smith he's six foot three 235 pounds 235 pounds if you go whoa okay so is he just a speed rusher kind of is right now right that's his game he's he's a big time

speed guy he's either bursting off the line of scrimmage to really try to attack the outside shoulder or he's bursting trying to one gap between the guard and the tackle for an inside move and just trying to crash inside. You just see the lack of strength, I think, show up in him. I don't think he's super weak for a dude who's 235. I think he can hold his own, but you just don't see a lot of that strength that's there. I think that there comes a time to where it's just too little of weight when you're going up against some of those, some of those bigger guys.

And so I think that that probably shows up in his game. Doesn't have a ton of pass rush or moves or counters when he's rushing the passer. I feel like he just tried to out athlete offensive tackles and he wasn't getting on the field nearly as much as he probably could have because that entire defensive class was absolutely stacked Georgia. So maybe it will be a little bit more consistent we'll get some even even more pass rush snaps for him this upcoming year but i think that was the big thing is i felt like he was just trying to sprint to his spot and that was his only goal a lot of times when he was a pass rusher and

you got to see more moves you got to see a little bit more of a plan you could be an athlete but you want to be an athlete with a plan you don't just want to be an athlete on the trenches. So that was kind of my thoughts with Nolan Smith. Totally agree. Watch a ton of them. You just want more. I don't really know how else to say it. You just want more from him.

He really was a bit of a one-trick pony right now. He's a lanky speed rusher with twitch and agility. That's what I wrote down. And there's a lot of good things that come with that. And when you play for Georgia, where they have 5 million of every kind of player you can find a really good role doing that but at the nfl that's not how life works so i think that right now he's a situational pass rusher on an nfl field and he's got this season to really mold himself into a round one

prospect and we know the talent has always been there to be that uh but needs to get stronger so he did not make the top five. You know, a couple of guys that I didn't expect to make the top five that at least are interesting. Zach Harrison from Ohio State, he's 6'6", 272. He just, he just, he runs hot and cold. There's games where he's throwing people around and making plays in the backfield.

And there's games where he totally disappears. And I think a lot of that is a pass rush plan where at Ohio State, there is no better place to get that coached up. So I'm really glad he went back to school because I think there's a chance for him to truly develop into a more consistent player this year. You know, I felt like the biggest area of concern

with Harrison was when he didn't win the length battle, it was just really tough for him to get by players. It's not explosive. That was the big thing. Well, I do think that he's got a decent first step to him, especially for his size. I think he's a decent athlete. I really do.

But the flexibility and the bend portion of his game, I thought, is lacking to the point where if he was not dominating you with that long arm or just with his length overall with this separation it was just hard for him to counter anybody that really got their hands on him and i thought that that was the biggest area of struggle for him so i didn't have him in the top five either he's an intriguing player because he does have some dominant moments but um he rushes a little high natural for a guy who's six foot six but he pops up pretty quickly he's he's got like a hunched

over kind of a style to him and so and he loses the natural leverage battle not just with how tall he is but also just his style of pass rushing and then yeah when he doesn't win that length battle i don't see a lot of successful counters with him to get disengaged from blocker so maybe we'll see a little bit more of that he'll get locked up a little bit less this year and we can see more of that athleticism because i do think he has a decent amount of it yeah there was a couple guys you know bjo jolari aziz's brother on lsu somebody to keep an eye on this year will m McDonald on Iowa State. And then the last one,

I apologize if I mispronounce the first name, but Ayabi Onoma on UT Martin. He was on Alabama and then Houston set out a season for Houston and then did not play, reportedly dismissed from the team. So that's a dude that all the talent in the world has been there and it just has not worked out for him at the college football level. But we'll see if this is the year he puts it together. So an intriguing class, nonetheless. Last guy that I'll mention, Habakkuk Baldonado, the edge rusher from Pitt.

And I wanted to mention him, 6'5", 255 pounds, because he's got a very interesting story. Born in Rome, Italy. He was a three-star edge rush prospect uh ended up playing a couple of years of junior high and high school football over in Italy but it's just not very big over there so he transferred transferred he came over to America came over to Florida the Clearwater International Academy yeah uh probably could have worded that a little bit better but he actually only played one year of high school football in the states before getting to pittsburgh and honestly man i mean he's he is a big powerful 4-3 defensive end kind of a player and you know what

i want to give him his credit he tries to do some of these pass rush moves but he's just he's not athletic enough to do a lot of these outside speed moves that he tries to kind of pull off. So I think if he if he hones in on being more of a power player, you could see a little bit more of a bullish style to his game. And I think he could be pretty effective with it. But he just does not have a good handle on exactly what his strengths are going to be, especially at the next level. I think that there's definitely a chance you could see that coming in this year because he is a physically imposing guy i do think that he is a um physically gifted player he's just got to focus on like hey i'm a i'm a bull in a china shop right i'm going to be a power guy and that's what that's what he needs to be uh over this year

but um yeah i wanted to shout him out because we had that we got the international flair there with uh habakkuk baldonato yeah you got you got to love getting some of those and it feels like pass rush group we get a good amount of those guys each year too international players we had this last year we had a jobbo last year yep um you know it's like when they come over and they're a great athlete they're like hey you're gonna rush the passer i mean you know that's again positional value it's uh it's all right there there we go that's the uh the preseason summer scouting 2023 edge rush group. As Connor said, you know, we'll probably revisit all of these things end of December, early January,

once we really start to get into the full swing of draft season. And I like that we have these podcasts and we're getting things out there and we're writing these things down because it is. It's going to be a great reference point to what was the final years of these guys. And we mentioned a lot of them draft eligible for the first time. A lot of them, these true juniors. So it's going to be fun to see that, fun to see what they put out there,

the tape they put out there, and how different this list might look. Five, six months from now. That's it for us this week as we're only doing two episodes per week for now how much how much do we want to tell them about the monday show because the monday i think we should hype it up okay all right i don't because i don't yeah it should be hyped up a little bit all right so you guys this this kind of like stemmed from the idea of the Mock Draft Monday that we did on this past Monday where we kind of like Madden franchise redrafted the entire league.

And then Connor and I kind of got to thinking, we were spitballing ideas. And what we're going to do on Monday, I think this is going to be a two-part series. I think we're going to do part one. Oh, we need two parts, yeah. Yeah, okay. So I think part one this upcoming Monday,

we are going to create what is the new expansion franchise for the NFL. Connor and I are going to come up with what city they're playing in, a name, maybe some designs of the logo if you feel like it, colors, all that stuff. We're going to establish the 33rd franchise of the nfl and then from there we're going to have an expansion draft what if an expansion draft like the nhl happened in the nfl so so on monday's episode what we're going to do is we're going to go down every single team in the NFL. And I threw out this number. We might change the number a little bit,

but essentially every team is going to get three protected players on offense and three protected players on defense. So on Monday, Connor and I are going to go through every single team in the NFL and protect those players. And then the following Monday, we are going to try to draft and assemble the best team of what is remaining from all of the other teams in the NFL. We'll make the salary caps work. We'll make the positions

work. We'll talk about what systems we're running. What team can we build if a NHL style expansion draft happened in the NFL? Which will happen in our lifetime. I think so too. I think so too. It will happen in our lifetime. The NFL, I take that back.

Not lifetime. I would put it in this decade. What are we in? 2022? I'll say in the next eight years it happens. Yeah, but 32 teams is just so perfect. They'll go to 34. Double whammy.

It was so easily divisible. Listen, I'm not clamoring. I think it's going to be really fun when we do it on our show. Right. I don't think the NFL needs a 33rd and 34th team at all. But the cash cow is the NFL could have 45 teams and it would just keep making more money. You're right.

You're right. You're right. So I'm excited to kick that off. I've never done anything like this before. It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be a great way to go through and see, like, hey, if this happened, who would teams protect? You know, like, do they have too many players where they're leaving guys available? We're talking about salary caps.

Salary cap complicit. I mean, maybe Connor and I make it. You only get to protect two guys. I'm not sure exactly what the magic number is going to be on Monday, but we'll have all the details for you. It's going to be a fun project. It's going to be a fun couple of episodes. Tune in on Monday. I'm Trevor. That's Connor. Thank you guys so much for listening to the NFL Soccer Change Podcast. Thank you.